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<v Speaker 1>Waco survivor David Tibadero, Welcome to the show. It's an

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<v Speaker 1>honor and a privilege to have you answer. How are

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<v Speaker 1>you doing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very good. Thanks for having me here today. I

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, I have so many questions for you. So where

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<v Speaker 1>I really want to start today, it's because you're a musician.

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<v Speaker 1>So as a musician, you're a drummer, and that's always

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<v Speaker 1>been your passion, you know from reading your book, is

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<v Speaker 1>music and playing the drums. So with that in mind,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think that life imitates art or art imitates life.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's some things that happened in life that

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<v Speaker 2>defy a writer's room. You know, there's some pretty amazing

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<v Speaker 2>writing out there. There's some incredible shows, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you never know what's going to happen next year. Take

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<v Speaker 2>a character gets in a situation that he can't possibly

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<v Speaker 2>get out to get out of, and then a creative writer,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, gets out of it and you're like, I

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<v Speaker 2>never would have thought of that, that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's great writing, But there's sometimes in life where the

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<v Speaker 2>reality is just so far beyond anything that you think

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<v Speaker 2>you could have constructed in your own mind. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>and that absolutely was WAKEO. And you know, see, there's

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<v Speaker 2>this dimension it's missing in WAKEG. It's it's purposely missing

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<v Speaker 2>on my part. And I know there's not many other

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<v Speaker 2>people that can really tackle the subject. And that's that's

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<v Speaker 2>the scripture. Everybody against that David who was teaching something

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<v Speaker 2>out of the Bible that made sense to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people, some people that have been studying scripture their

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<v Speaker 2>entire lives, and he comes across and he's teaching these

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<v Speaker 2>seven seals. I know people talked about a lot, but listen,

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<v Speaker 2>it's hard to overestimate the importance of the scripture when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to what happened at Waco. Most people keep

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<v Speaker 2>it political. You know, even even people that I find

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<v Speaker 2>to be kind of libertarian bent or really understand the

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<v Speaker 2>Constitution and really realize the violations that have taken place

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<v Speaker 2>at Waco, don't want to look at the scriptural aspects.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think they walk away, even you know, especially

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<v Speaker 2>very intelligent people, they walk away thinking, well, maybe the

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<v Speaker 2>people there, they're just a little bit duped, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just they just had to wool pull over their eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>That Krush was a con man. As the FBI said

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<v Speaker 2>over and over, God that David was a con man. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, David was a lot of things, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he made some terrible decisions that led to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of problems for a lot of people. He put a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people in danger. He's historically coming off as

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<v Speaker 2>not not one of the better people that have ever existed,

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<v Speaker 2>And I understand that, but there was still a depth

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<v Speaker 2>there that people just don't at all want to focus

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<v Speaker 2>on her, think about, or talk about. Even there's like

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<v Speaker 2>a very very few. And I bring this up because

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<v Speaker 2>the ferocity of what the government did I believe was

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<v Speaker 2>spiritually motivated.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe so too. And we're gonna get into that.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think was the biggest lie? And I

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<v Speaker 1>know that there was a lot of them that was

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<v Speaker 1>told about Mount Carmel during the Siege of March of

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety three by the media or by the ATF

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<v Speaker 1>or the FBI.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought you were going in a different way there.

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<v Speaker 2>So first let me answer the question I thought you

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<v Speaker 2>were going to ask, And what do I think that

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<v Speaker 2>was the biggest lie that they told them? Why? And

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<v Speaker 2>then I'll tell you I'll answer your question. But to me,

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<v Speaker 2>the helicopters shooting at the building. It's something that they

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<v Speaker 2>have all denied, all of the agents on the ground

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<v Speaker 2>and the agents and the helicopters for years they said

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<v Speaker 2>that the helicopters did not fire unto the building. And

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<v Speaker 2>then at trial we had one of the defense attorneys

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<v Speaker 2>was like, are you saying that you know none of

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<v Speaker 2>the helicopters fired in at the building, And the guy

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<v Speaker 2>in the stand said, I want the ATF guys. The

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<v Speaker 2>head guys said, yeah, there were no mounted guns on

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<v Speaker 2>those helicopters. Well, that wasn't the question. The question was

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<v Speaker 2>that the helicopters or people that were on the helicopters

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<v Speaker 2>shoot into the building. And then he said he simply

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<v Speaker 2>asked did the agents that were on the helicopters where

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<v Speaker 2>they armed? And he had to answer yes. So the

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<v Speaker 2>agents on those helicopters were armed. Many eyewitnesses on the

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<v Speaker 2>ground saw the helicopters firing or saw shots from the

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<v Speaker 2>helicopters headed toward the building. People on the inside, including myself,

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<v Speaker 2>including Dick de Garon and Jack Zimmerman, the two attorneys

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<v Speaker 2>that came into in the stiege, that the helicopters. The

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<v Speaker 2>evidence of bullet holes in the roof coming from the

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<v Speaker 2>outside in anyway. This is important because constitutionally we're not

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to use military equipment against American citizens now under

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<v Speaker 2>the Positi Comitatis Act, because of the Warren Drugs back

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<v Speaker 2>in the eighties, had a caveat that basically stated if

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<v Speaker 2>you could use military equipment against American citizens as long

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<v Speaker 2>as you could prove there was a drug nexus or

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<v Speaker 2>a drug connection. And so Meat very blatantly lied about

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<v Speaker 2>there being methanphetamines being produced at Mount Carmel under David Presher.

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<v Speaker 2>There were absolutely no drugs there. He was never even

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<v Speaker 2>accused of that. He actually turned in evidence of a

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<v Speaker 2>meta lab back in eighty five when he went out

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<v Speaker 2>there and they had the gun battle with him and

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<v Speaker 2>George Road, and that was the whole thing. And so

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<v Speaker 2>they knew, they knew very well there was not even

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<v Speaker 2>any suspicion of a dragon nexust Amount Carmel, but they

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<v Speaker 2>lied and put that in so they could get the helicopter.

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<v Speaker 2>So that alone, the whole premise for the raid is

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<v Speaker 2>based on an immaculate lie. And I think if ever

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<v Speaker 2>put under scrutiny, in other words, if we're ever on

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<v Speaker 2>the line, were people that were responsible for this raid

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<v Speaker 2>had a congressional hearing or were in danger of going

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<v Speaker 2>to jail for their actions, and then I think the

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<v Speaker 2>American public would find out some very frightening things about

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<v Speaker 2>what happened behind the scenes and how they even got

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<v Speaker 2>a warrant go and get David cris and they think

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<v Speaker 2>they would they would see that it was very unlawful.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree, But then unfortunately they turn after Waco, they

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<v Speaker 1>turned all of their attention to outside terrorism. Wasn't domestic

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<v Speaker 1>terrorism anymore, they started looking at foreign terrorism, and then

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<v Speaker 1>nine to eleven happened, and then it just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>brushed I think everything under the rug from what happened

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<v Speaker 1>with Waco, from what I'm really putting together.

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<v Speaker 2>So there were also in ninety five though you had

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<v Speaker 2>you had Timothy McVeigh, which you know, at first they

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<v Speaker 2>said it was foreign terrorism, but then you know, they

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<v Speaker 2>finally had admitt this is this is a white boy

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<v Speaker 2>from what Wisconsin was he from the point is that

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<v Speaker 2>it was domestic terrorism. So you know, after after ninety five,

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<v Speaker 2>two years after after Waco, there was no denying that

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<v Speaker 2>resources needed to be alloted to, you know, enemies domestic

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<v Speaker 2>as well as foreign. A tank is a pretty amazing

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<v Speaker 2>self fulfilling prophecy. I just want to throw that out there,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he said, about three months four months before

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<v Speaker 2>all this happened, I was on the roof of them

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<v Speaker 2>we were building, you know, putting the roof on the

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<v Speaker 2>big place. They said, Tis, what are you going to do?

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<v Speaker 2>Wh There's tanks running up and down the Double Ranch Road.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, David didn't never going to be tang

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<v Speaker 2>are you crazy? Sure enough, they brought tanks there, running

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<v Speaker 2>up and down the Double Ranch Road. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>hm hm, there was answer. You had an earlier question too. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting there during the siege and I'm reading scripture

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<v Speaker 2>and the Psalms. It's talking about the whole world being

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<v Speaker 2>against the Lord's anointed one, saying break there, let us

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<v Speaker 2>break their business center and cast their cords away from

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<v Speaker 2>us and David but say they didn't want the seals, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like you got all these armies. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>there's an army except for against us. And we're reading articles,

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<v Speaker 2>we're hearing stuff on TV about them bringing in Russians

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<v Speaker 2>were coming in for for the Psychops program, literally representatives

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<v Speaker 2>from all over the world, and some of these tactical

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<v Speaker 2>armies were coming in to help the FBI, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with with training and tactics and things, and it's just

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<v Speaker 2>you're reading this and that scripture now becomes literal. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>The world has set themselves against this person. Everybody hated.

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<v Speaker 2>If you remember, you probably you're too young. But if

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<v Speaker 2>you look at some of the every day they had

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<v Speaker 2>a press conference, Some of the press conferences so much

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<v Speaker 2>vitriol against the group. We're the most demonized group in

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<v Speaker 2>history at the time on a global scale. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, when we came out of that place, we

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<v Speaker 2>were worried about being hit, having tomatoes shrouded us, literally everything,

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<v Speaker 2>because they did such a thorough job of demonizing the group,

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<v Speaker 2>so it was much easier, I think when when the

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<v Speaker 2>people died in the place burnt, for people to accept

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<v Speaker 2>it as just a bunch of religious fanatics that got

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<v Speaker 2>what they deserve. And that's what the government was counting on,

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<v Speaker 2>that the people would believe that