Speaker 1: Waco survivor David Tibadero, Welcome to the show. It's an
Speaker 1: honor and a privilege to have you answer. How are
Speaker 1: you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm very good. Thanks for having me here today. I
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Man, I have so many questions for you. So where
Speaker 1: I really want to start today, it's because you're a musician.
Speaker 1: So as a musician, you're a drummer, and that's always
Speaker 1: been your passion, you know from reading your book, is
Speaker 1: music and playing the drums. So with that in mind,
Speaker 1: do you think that life imitates art or art imitates life.
Speaker 2: I think there's some things that happened in life that
Speaker 2: defy a writer's room. You know, there's some pretty amazing
Speaker 2: writing out there. There's some incredible shows, and you know,
Speaker 2: you never know what's going to happen next year. Take
Speaker 2: a character gets in a situation that he can't possibly
Speaker 2: get out to get out of, and then a creative writer,
Speaker 2: you know, gets out of it and you're like, I
Speaker 2: never would have thought of that, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: It's great writing, But there's sometimes in life where the
Speaker 2: reality is just so far beyond anything that you think
Speaker 2: you could have constructed in your own mind. You know,
Speaker 2: and that absolutely was WAKEO. And you know, see, there's
Speaker 2: this dimension it's missing in WAKEG. It's it's purposely missing
Speaker 2: on my part. And I know there's not many other
Speaker 2: people that can really tackle the subject. And that's that's
Speaker 2: the scripture. Everybody against that David who was teaching something
Speaker 2: out of the Bible that made sense to a lot
Speaker 2: of people, some people that have been studying scripture their
Speaker 2: entire lives, and he comes across and he's teaching these
Speaker 2: seven seals. I know people talked about a lot, but listen,
Speaker 2: it's hard to overestimate the importance of the scripture when
Speaker 2: it comes to what happened at Waco. Most people keep
Speaker 2: it political. You know, even even people that I find
Speaker 2: to be kind of libertarian bent or really understand the
Speaker 2: Constitution and really realize the violations that have taken place
Speaker 2: at Waco, don't want to look at the scriptural aspects.
Speaker 2: And I think they walk away, even you know, especially
Speaker 2: very intelligent people, they walk away thinking, well, maybe the
Speaker 2: people there, they're just a little bit duped, you know,
Speaker 2: just they just had to wool pull over their eyes.
Speaker 2: That Krush was a con man. As the FBI said
Speaker 2: over and over, God that David was a con man. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, David was a lot of things, and you know,
Speaker 2: he made some terrible decisions that led to a lot
Speaker 2: of problems for a lot of people. He put a
Speaker 2: lot of people in danger. He's historically coming off as
Speaker 2: not not one of the better people that have ever existed,
Speaker 2: And I understand that, but there was still a depth
Speaker 2: there that people just don't at all want to focus
Speaker 2: on her, think about, or talk about. Even there's like
Speaker 2: a very very few. And I bring this up because
Speaker 2: the ferocity of what the government did I believe was
Speaker 2: spiritually motivated.
Speaker 1: I believe so too. And we're gonna get into that.
Speaker 1: What do you think was the biggest lie? And I
Speaker 1: know that there was a lot of them that was
Speaker 1: told about Mount Carmel during the Siege of March of
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three by the media or by the ATF
Speaker 1: or the FBI.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going in a different way there.
Speaker 2: So first let me answer the question I thought you
Speaker 2: were going to ask, And what do I think that
Speaker 2: was the biggest lie that they told them? Why? And
Speaker 2: then I'll tell you I'll answer your question. But to me,
Speaker 2: the helicopters shooting at the building. It's something that they
Speaker 2: have all denied, all of the agents on the ground
Speaker 2: and the agents and the helicopters for years they said
Speaker 2: that the helicopters did not fire unto the building. And
Speaker 2: then at trial we had one of the defense attorneys
Speaker 2: was like, are you saying that you know none of
Speaker 2: the helicopters fired in at the building, And the guy
Speaker 2: in the stand said, I want the ATF guys. The
Speaker 2: head guys said, yeah, there were no mounted guns on
Speaker 2: those helicopters. Well, that wasn't the question. The question was
Speaker 2: that the helicopters or people that were on the helicopters
Speaker 2: shoot into the building. And then he said he simply
Speaker 2: asked did the agents that were on the helicopters where
Speaker 2: they armed? And he had to answer yes. So the
Speaker 2: agents on those helicopters were armed. Many eyewitnesses on the
Speaker 2: ground saw the helicopters firing or saw shots from the
Speaker 2: helicopters headed toward the building. People on the inside, including myself,
Speaker 2: including Dick de Garon and Jack Zimmerman, the two attorneys
Speaker 2: that came into in the stiege, that the helicopters. The
Speaker 2: evidence of bullet holes in the roof coming from the
Speaker 2: outside in anyway. This is important because constitutionally we're not
Speaker 2: supposed to use military equipment against American citizens now under
Speaker 2: the Positi Comitatis Act, because of the Warren Drugs back
Speaker 2: in the eighties, had a caveat that basically stated if
Speaker 2: you could use military equipment against American citizens as long
Speaker 2: as you could prove there was a drug nexus or
Speaker 2: a drug connection. And so Meat very blatantly lied about
Speaker 2: there being methanphetamines being produced at Mount Carmel under David Presher.
Speaker 2: There were absolutely no drugs there. He was never even
Speaker 2: accused of that. He actually turned in evidence of a
Speaker 2: meta lab back in eighty five when he went out
Speaker 2: there and they had the gun battle with him and
Speaker 2: George Road, and that was the whole thing. And so
Speaker 2: they knew, they knew very well there was not even
Speaker 2: any suspicion of a dragon nexust Amount Carmel, but they
Speaker 2: lied and put that in so they could get the helicopter.
Speaker 2: So that alone, the whole premise for the raid is
Speaker 2: based on an immaculate lie. And I think if ever
Speaker 2: put under scrutiny, in other words, if we're ever on
Speaker 2: the line, were people that were responsible for this raid
Speaker 2: had a congressional hearing or were in danger of going
Speaker 2: to jail for their actions, and then I think the
Speaker 2: American public would find out some very frightening things about
Speaker 2: what happened behind the scenes and how they even got
Speaker 2: a warrant go and get David cris and they think
Speaker 2: they would they would see that it was very unlawful.
Speaker 1: I agree, But then unfortunately they turn after Waco, they
Speaker 1: turned all of their attention to outside terrorism. Wasn't domestic
Speaker 1: terrorism anymore, they started looking at foreign terrorism, and then
Speaker 1: nine to eleven happened, and then it just kind of
Speaker 1: brushed I think everything under the rug from what happened
Speaker 1: with Waco, from what I'm really putting together.
Speaker 2: So there were also in ninety five though you had
Speaker 2: you had Timothy McVeigh, which you know, at first they
Speaker 2: said it was foreign terrorism, but then you know, they
Speaker 2: finally had admitt this is this is a white boy
Speaker 2: from what Wisconsin was he from the point is that
Speaker 2: it was domestic terrorism. So you know, after after ninety five,
Speaker 2: two years after after Waco, there was no denying that
Speaker 2: resources needed to be alloted to, you know, enemies domestic
Speaker 2: as well as foreign. A tank is a pretty amazing
Speaker 2: self fulfilling prophecy. I just want to throw that out there,
Speaker 2: you know, he said, about three months four months before
Speaker 2: all this happened, I was on the roof of them
Speaker 2: we were building, you know, putting the roof on the
Speaker 2: big place. They said, Tis, what are you going to do?
Speaker 2: Wh There's tanks running up and down the Double Ranch Road.
Speaker 2: And I said, David didn't never going to be tang
Speaker 2: are you crazy? Sure enough, they brought tanks there, running
Speaker 2: up and down the Double Ranch Road. So you know,
Speaker 2: hm hm, there was answer. You had an earlier question too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there during the siege and I'm reading scripture
Speaker 2: and the Psalms. It's talking about the whole world being
Speaker 2: against the Lord's anointed one, saying break there, let us
Speaker 2: break their business center and cast their cords away from
Speaker 2: us and David but say they didn't want the seals, right,
Speaker 2: So it's like you got all these armies. It's like
Speaker 2: there's an army except for against us. And we're reading articles,
Speaker 2: we're hearing stuff on TV about them bringing in Russians
Speaker 2: were coming in for for the Psychops program, literally representatives
Speaker 2: from all over the world, and some of these tactical
Speaker 2: armies were coming in to help the FBI, you know,
Speaker 2: with with training and tactics and things, and it's just
Speaker 2: you're reading this and that scripture now becomes literal. Right.
Speaker 2: The world has set themselves against this person. Everybody hated.
Speaker 2: If you remember, you probably you're too young. But if
Speaker 2: you look at some of the every day they had
Speaker 2: a press conference, Some of the press conferences so much
Speaker 2: vitriol against the group. We're the most demonized group in
Speaker 2: history at the time on a global scale. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, when we came out of that place, we
Speaker 2: were worried about being hit, having tomatoes shrouded us, literally everything,
Speaker 2: because they did such a thorough job of demonizing the group,
Speaker 2: so it was much easier, I think when when the
Speaker 2: people died in the place burnt, for people to accept
Speaker 2: it as just a bunch of religious fanatics that got
Speaker 2: what they deserve. And that's what the government was counting on,
Speaker 2: that the people would believe that