Speaker 1: What is God's interaction with kings. I mean, we're watching
all of a sudden it's Joe Biden, who's mentally crisp.
He is as good he's ever been. Joe Scarboro said
he's a better Joe Biden, better than he's ever been.
And then two minutes later we got to toss this dude.
And now it's Cammy Harris, and she's a kind woman
defined by her Christian faith. He's going to defend this nation.
She's never been borders are that's a lie. So, like
we talked about the other day, with the help of
Pete Townsend, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
My friends and pastor Senior pastor of Real Life Ministry
is Jim Putman's here to talk to us about God's
interaction with kings. We'll get to that with the help
of God Almighty. And we'll start right now.
Speaker 2: The Todd Herman Show is one hundred percent disapproved by
big pharma technocrats and tyrants everywhere. Now from the high
mountains of Free America, here's the Emerald City exile God
her Man.
Speaker 1: Today is a day the Lord has made, And these
are the times so which God is the Saturday we
shall live. My friend Jim Putman's here closure having you,
thank you for coming in. Awesome, great to be here.
What is the interaction throughout history with God and human kings?
I have a whole series of questions about this, but
let's start with maybe a meta narrative like God and
human kings and human leaders, and I mean, how would
you describe this to people?
Speaker 3: Well, there's obviously been leaders, whether they're emperors or kings
or pharaohs forever right, as probably started as the human
community grew. But God's version of leadership was never supposed
to included king. So you go back to the scriptures
and it says that the last judge, you know, Samuel, comes,
They approach him and say, hey, we want a king
like all the other nations.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So Samuel takes this to the Lord.
Speaker 1: He know, he feels rejected the Lord. The Lord feels rejected.
Speaker 3: Well, Samuel feels rejected, and he goes to the Lord
and the Lord says.
Speaker 1: You're not the one they rejected. It's me.
Speaker 3: And so from the very beginning, you know, he said,
go tell him. If you do this, then the king's
going to take your sons. He's going to take your daughters.
You're going to have to pay taxes. And so he says,
this is what's going to happen. And they say, we
want that. We want everybody what everybody else has. Wow,
and I read that this is subtext.
Speaker 1: It's not biblical, but sort of in my mind, I'm
thinking of God going, this, dude's tall, the adust I
see him like picking Saul, going, I don't know, dude
over here, he's tall, good looking, use him. And I
could see Samuel going, wait, but what are his It
doesn't matter. I mean, it's just a king. It's just
a guy. And I don't know. God can use anybody.
He's Moses, who wasn't a great speaker, didn't want to speak,
and Aaron did the speaking. He used, he can use anybody,
the shepherd boy David. But God can use anybody. Is
there any biblical reason why he picked Saul or is
it just that he's tall? Well? I think.
Speaker 3: What God was giving he said, Remember the request was
we want a king like everybody else. Yeah, right, so
tall was Saul was tall, he was handsome, He use
all these things.
Speaker 1: So I think God says, all right, I'll give you
one like everybody else. You don't love that.
Speaker 3: But then you see the difference when David becomes king, right, right,
So David isn't even invited to the table with his brothers,
to Jesse's table. He's out being a shepherd, right. And
so when Samuel gets there, he looks at the oldest
one and he says, oh, this guy's handsome, he's tall.
This has got to be it. Remember what God says.
God doesn't judge by the outer appearance. He judges by
the heart. So in this case, he said, all right,
I'm going to choose David. I'm going to show you
one that's after my own heart versus sort of the
one you think you want. And sometimes the worst thing
that God can do is to say, all right, I'll
give you what you want. I think that is. That's
what I pray for. Lord, don't give me what I
think I want. Give me what I know I need
from your perspective. And that's sort of a dying to
yourself and letting you know, walking by faith versus you know,
scripture provertcy. He says, trust in the Lord with your
whole heart, lean not on your own understanding, but in
all your ways acknowledge him. So yeah, I think that
is a prime example of God giving them what they
thought they wanted. And then this guy started out small
in his own eyes, but he became proud, he became
about his own reputation, he became about compromising with God.
And then you find out God rejects him, because rebellion
is just as witchcraft before the Lord, and that's.
Speaker 1: Something for all of us to learn.
Speaker 3: Rebellion is to not do what God said to do
to please yourself or please people, and so that is
as divination or you know, necromancy, being demonic rebellion and pride.
God hates pride. It causes rebellion. It started the problem
in the garden. It's a source of all of our
problems now. And humbling yourself, letting him save you and
letting him lead you is the key to salvation and
eternity with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, I love the way put that, And so
we go. I want to talk about David and that
that interaction, because David is a man after God's own hearts.
And then David departs in some really really significant ways
and has a son named Solomon, And there was in
fact a request I ask you about Solomon, and this
came in an email because mentioned that we're going to
be talking about kings and so I'll run that bay
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eventually becomes king, but David as well, he has these
interactions with King Saul, and King Saul seems to be
going mad. But this this is always curious to me,
is that it seems like God allowed Satan to play
with Saul's head, and Saul came this evil king obsessed
with killing David. And then David showed this humility where
he had a lot of chances to kill Saul and
he didn't, but he also didn't always trust God. There's
a scene that David decided to pretend to be a madman,
to be crazy to you know, drip snot from his nose,
and he was not perfect, but he was a man
after God's own hearts. What's the big difference between Saul
and David in your mind? Biblically that's your mind, But biblically.
Speaker 3: I think what makes David a man after God's own
heart is that he first of all understands as you
read through the Book of Psalms. That's kind of in
my view, it's inspired by scripture, but it's also his
prayer journal, which you know, tells us that you can,
you know, be angry at God, you can share with
God your feelings.
Speaker 1: And I think David, though he struggled.
Speaker 3: And even made like, you know, he'd be on death
row in our culture because he you know, not only
had adultery, but he killed the woman he's with his husband, yeah, sheep,
his husband. One of his close friends. Right, and what
you see is he sins here. And by the way,
there were consequences to that sin. His family, the pain
of watching your children kill one another try to kill you.
You know, as a result of all this, there was consequences.
But when the prophet came to him and said, hey, uh,
you sinned, and he actually tells a story about a
man who had one sheep and a guy who had
a lot, and he wanted to have a dinner, so
he didn't kill one of his own sheep. He killed
this guy with his one sheep, and David was so
incensed by it that he said, all right, that guy
needs to die, right, And then the prophet says, that
man is you. It's funny when you you know, he
couldn't see in his own life, but boy, he was
sure easy to you make a judgment in somebody else's.
And then you know, the prophet said that man is you.
And when when David heard this, you know, he was like,
what have I done?
Speaker 1: God? Forgive me for people don't know what happened to
David and what he did. If I remember this correctly,
David had been on the rooftop the King's rooftop Mighty View,
and he observed a woman in the back of her
home and on top of the roof, yeah, on top
of the roof. And her name was Bathsheba. And David said,
and I don't think it says this in the Bible,
but I think that he said, Wow, she's hot. Yeah,
that's not exactly right, that's right. And then he's the king,
so he's like a rock star and he'd bring her
on over. I tell her she gets to get us,
she gets a VIP pass, she gets the backstage pass,
and then he seduces her or whatever he does, and
they have sexual relations. She's pregnant, and he draws her
husband back from the front and he says, go sleep
with your wife. Yea, And the guy says, no, I
won't depart my you know, I'm going to guard my post.
My men are out in the field right. No way,
I'm not doing that. And he gets him drunk and
now go sleep with your wife. No, I won't to
part you, And David makes this desperate decision to send
the guy to the front with instructions his own. Yeah,
he made him carry that without him knowing it.
Speaker 3: The instructions to the front line that says, put him
out on the front line, leave him there, pull back,
get him killed. And by the way, that Uriah was
one of David's mighty men, one of his close personal friends.
Speaker 1: He did this a close personal friend. And so then
the prophet comes to him and says, you have sinned.
You are the guy who you're describing. You're angry about
the sheep. This is you and David in one of
the psalms of repentance, are there I'm thirty one? I
think it is. Yeah, are there five psalms of repentance?
Speaker 3: Well, I know of Psalm fifty one, I think it
is and Psalm thirty one are the two that you
know talk about, you know, his own sin and his
bones ached.
Speaker 1: He was just he was just in agony, intel he confessed.
So he confesses and this is I think what he says,
wash me with hissop and I will be clean. And
he's saying he's recognizing the Lord's ability to wash him.
David didn't have the Holy Spirit, did he?
Speaker 3: Well, in the Old Testament, you have the Holy Spirit
came and departed, but okay, and would influence the writing
of the scriptures and come upon those guys at certain
times and places, but it wasn't until the resurrection of Jesus,
the Lamb, who is slain. Now you're declared righteous by
the blood of Jesus if you accepted him. Now, the
Holy Spirit is an internal deposit given to you that
helps you become what you've already been declared to be,
and then speaks to the Father as your intercessor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And that's difference is And
I'm not I can't descripture in verse yet. I'm working
on it. But there was a moment in the Old
Testament where some people had been given the job of
guarding the arc of the Covenant, and the Lord prescribed,
here's how you carry the arc, right, you walk very slowly.
It was painstaking, but look, this is the ark of
the Covenant. This is a place for me. You were
to carry it very very slowly, not to touch it,
not to touch it. And it was even like you
take four steps and then you stop. It was almost
like a dance. Well, yeah, they slaughtered countless. I don't
even know how many.
Speaker 3: I mean the numbers there, yeah, but animals every few feet,
I mean, you know, they just did all kinds.
Speaker 1: Of different stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right. So towards the end of that journey hurrying departing
God's word on how his how the Ark of the
Covenant was to be treated, one of the guys ends
up touching it. Yeah, it starts to fall. They stumble, right,
the animals do. It starts to fall, yeah, and a
guy touches it, grabs it to stop it. Instruck dead.
Instruck dead. And he was taught his whole life he
was from, was the Levites that he was. He was
taught his whole life, here's how you deal with this.
And he got to hurrying. And what I think is
so remarkable is he broke that rule carrying the covenants.
And then God turns around and puts the Holy Spirit
in us. And now our bodies were to treat our
bodies that way. They say that the body is a temple. Yeah,
not that we don't get touched and die.
Speaker 3: But I think when he's using that phraseology, he's talking
about the body.
Speaker 1: Of Christ, which would be the church.
Speaker 3: Okay, ye, now is it true that the Holy Spirit
does live in us?
Speaker 1: So there, you're right. There are two different passages there.
Talks about there's.
Speaker 3: A sin that that you can do that sins against
your own body, sin of sex outside of marriage. There
are things that you can do that you personally are
the temple of the Holy Spirit, but collectively were the
body of Christ. We're a holy temple with each of
us like a living stone with Christ. Jesus is the cornerstone.
The apostles and the prophets is the foundation. So that's
in Ephesians. And we're a bit like being built into
a holy temple. And and so yes, there's the individual piece.
Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit lives in me. Be careful what we
do with our bodies. And he's talking about don't don't
connect your body to a prostitute, right, you're it? Can
it can? Can?
Speaker 3: Can you being the temple of the Holy Spirit joined
with the prostitute? No, you don't do that, yea, So
he's talking, Yeah, so it's a it's a it's a complicated,
nuanced discussion, right.
Speaker 1: But and but it is accurate that our bodies, our
bodies singular, were to treat as a temple because we
have the Holy Spirit within us, the Kingdom of Heaven
within us. Yes, the Holy Spirit lives within us. Right,
So in other words, you're going to come work out
with me no, you caught me, all right, Jim Putman's
thank you appreciate that that wasn't planning an events. So
we go from David. David eventually dies, he passes the
kingdom on to Solomon. And uh, this is the note
I got from a gentleman who has been through a divorce.
He is now in the residue of the divorce. He
has lost friends, Christian communities. Some of the Christian community
have turned against him. Hey, you divorce your wife, you're
no longer part of the community. And he's dealing with
his pain and one of the things that he's been
doing is of course going to the Bible, and he
was reading Proverbs and there's a lot of proverbs in
there written by Solomon, and it was very comforting to him.
And he's reading this, going, okay, right, this is what
we're to do. This is moral, and well, you know what,
my friends might have a point, but the decisions made
they've had the divorce. And then he wrote to me
and said, hey, well we ask your pastor about this.
I'm reading getting all this comfort. Then I sit back
and to wait a minute. Solomon had like two hundred
wives and a bunch of concubines, and he's writing to
his sons saying, hey, don't see prostitutes. Don't like have
multiple women? He had how many wives? Yeah, I mean
nineteen hundred No, no concubine. Yeah there was, but there
was a bunch. I can't remember the number. And suddenly
he's going back to go wait a minute, I was
getting this great comfort of the Bible, and I'm reading
the words of one of the greatest hypocrites in the
history of the world, Solomon, who was also the wisest.
Like when God said, you know you're going to be king,
how can I prepare you? He didn't want riches, he
didn't want probably want a wisdom, and God made him
this really wise man who then turned around said I'm
gonna have a couple hundred wives in a concubine, so
help him with that.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, again, what I'm about to say
might be a little bit disputable, depending on you know
which pastor or theologian you're talking to. I believe Proverbs
was written earlier on in his life, and as you
read the story. As you read the story, he actually
he starts to marry. Remember the Old Testament said, don't
make treaties, don't give your daughters, don't take their daughters.
He started doing this, and it actually says that his
heart was corrupted by his wives, and he actually brought
in all of these women he would marry as daughters
of a king as a form of treaty, and then
he would bring in their temples into Jerusalem. He was
actually responsible later in his life for filling the filling
Jerusalem with the temples of false gods. So not only
did he disobey God about how many wives he disobeyed
God about marrying, he broke the Jewish law. And so
if you look into a book of Ecclesiastes, he wrote
that as well. He tells the story of how he
decided he was going to take his wisdom and he
was going to test wisdom. Rather than trusting God's wisdom,
he was going to try to discern his own wisdom.
So he gave himself the pleasure. He gave himself to
building stuff.
Speaker 1: He did all this stuff.
Speaker 3: And the phrase he uses us all throughout is meaningless, meaningless.
Everything is meaningless. And then he uses this phraseology under
the sun, and that's s u N not so o N.
Speaker 1: So what he's basically come to the conclusion of and
he says, this is the end of it of his book.
Speaker 3: Everything that's that's in the world, the human world, that
we're in the physical universe without bringing God into the
equation above the heavens and the earth, without bringing under
the sun, everything you do out there is meaningless without
bringing God into the equation. And so I actually, you know,
and we don't know when in his life he actually
wrote that, but it does say as one of the
statements about Solomon that he his heart was corrupted and
he actually left wisdom. And so there are some people
that actually believe that he wasn't saved.
Speaker 1: He was. I just going to ask you, because I
believe David was. He came back to the Lord, right,
So I actually believe that.
Speaker 3: And again this is disputable. When did he write Ecclesiastes.
It's hard to say. If he wrote Ecclesiastes after doing
all that stuff, then of course I think he came
to some conclusions. He went and hurt himself and learned
some stuff, and God directed him. I believe the book
of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs is inspired by God. That's why
it's in scripture. But I tend to lean towards at
the end of his life, he was not saved.
Speaker 1: Okay, so help my friend who's been through this divorce.
He's trying to find comfort here and he's reading the
great Words at Solomon, and here's this massive hypocrite. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I would say at the time that he wrote what
he wrote, I think he was living out what he believed.
I don't think he lived out what he believed later on.
So a hypocrite is a person who is an actor pretender.
Speaker 1: All of us fail.
Speaker 3: I fail in my walk with God, and I'm selfish,
I get self centered, I get proud, I get all
those things.
Speaker 1: But when the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3: Reminds me, when I'm in the Word of God, when
my brothers and sisters in Christ say, hey, you know, Jim,
you're getting a little full of yourself, It's like, what
have I done? The Holy Spirit convicts me. I failed.
I have a sinful nature. I didn't die to that
or I just started acting and wasn't thinking, and you know,
acting not.
Speaker 1: As like an actor.
Speaker 3: But I'm just doing stuff and just reacting to what's
happening in my day instead of dying to self and saying,
Holy Spirit guide me.
Speaker 1: I fail.
Speaker 3: I'm dependent upon God's grace right now again, you have
to have great The only way we got saved in
the Old Testament was by God's grace as well. In
the Law you had the law, but you had the sacrifices,
which said, here's the law, but I'm going to give
you sacrifices because you can't follow the law. Jesus is
the ultimate sacrifice. Those sacrifices in the Old Testament point
forward to Christ the sacrificed.
Speaker 1: But it's grace. You're saved by grace, your faith in
the Old and the News. So David was being a hypocrite, right,
and when he got called on it, he's like, what
have I done?
Speaker 3: If Saul or a Solomon was a hypocrite? And later
on goes what am I doing? I think he ended
up being saved, right, But if he died in this
state of he's been polluted and corrupted by his many
wives and worshiping false gods. If Ecclesiastes was written earlier
in his life, God directed him to write it. But
this gets into this question of once they'd always saved.
And for me, I believe that there's warnings all throughout
the scriptures about don't fall away my life.
Speaker 1: Versus Hebrews three twelve thirteen.
Speaker 3: See to it, my brothers and sisters, that none of
you gets the sin valna believing heart that turns away
from the living God. Encourage one another daily so that
your hearts will not be hardened by sense deceitfulness. Why
all the warnings in Hebrews if it's not possible to
drift away? And even the angels he warns in you
know Hebrews too, the angels were drifted away, and so
they're in hell or they're going to be in hell.
And he says, don't you know, be careful that you
do not drift away, And then he uses the angels
as an example. Why is he warning me and doing
that if it's not possible.
Speaker 1: You and I hold the same view in that yours
is more advanced, I'm sure than I am, But I
hold the same exact view for many, many of the
same reasons what you just mentioned about kings and about
the earthly way and about these compromises. I am getting
a ton of pushback, and I mean an unusual amount
of pushback by virtue of a position I took on
the Republican National Convension, And I'm wondering if you can
explain this better than I am. First of all, I'm
not sure I agree with you, So let's find out
what you say. I'll tell you, I'll tell you the second,
and we'll clear the air. You'll notice in this studio
that it smells like a thunderstorm. I'm not asking you
to participate. You're a pastor, please don't. But truly, two
weeks ago, when our friend Zach Abraham, chief investment officer
bull Or Capital Management, walked in those doors over there,
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I'm pointing. Trust me. Zach walked in open doors, said wow,
it smells like a thunderstorm in here. I'm like, do
you ever listen to the podcast on was He says,
Oh yeah, wait wait wait that that thing? That thing,
where is it? So? Right over there on the wall,
it's producing ozone in this room, and those molecules seek
out and destroy odors. Even behind furniture, there's nothing that
can hide from the thunderstorm. We have a common friend, Ben,
you know what I'm talking about, My sports med doc
good friend. He has this in his home gym. Now
you don't get the sweat smell. He has it in
his studio. He's a sports med doc. Now you don't
have the smell of the gym. A studios in a gym.
And this was the Miracus if you can relate to this.
As a hunter. Ben went up and he was planning
to hunt bear, but he had a tag. It was
legal target of opportunity. He took a bear and took
it home and blood gout on the seat of his truck.
So he tried to clean it off, and then it
smelled and it stunk, and he cleaned some more, but
it was still stinking. It was when we were doing
one hundred and three degrees and he finally figured out,
wait a minute, there's bear sausage I took up to
eat and it was below my seat and it is rotted.
So he took the thunderstorm the oxy leaf too, thunderstorm device,
stuck it in there overnight and everything, all the junk, perfume,
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word Todd bo go Jim. I watched the R and
C not in whole because I don't do that. I
don't I don't attend political speeches. I don't attend political rallies.
I read, I read position papers. I watch later analytically.
I choose not to be sucked into those things because
I know they're seductive. The R and C allowed two
prayers to false gods, and one was the Seak God.
One was Mohammed. Both of course, stands against the Lord Jesus,
even if they say nice things. I think Muhammad is
openly demonic personally. That's my take. The Seak God I
know a little about. I know that this false god
is genderless. And my position on this is they ought
not have done it because we are told to love
God with all our heart, all our mind, all our soul,
to worship no other gods with them but Him and
I watched people in the audience bow their heads and
pray to a false God. And my thinking of this is, hey,
you may well win a presidential life with this pandering.
Because it's pandering, you might well build an intersectional base.
And if that works, when someone comes along the X
time and says, hey, you know what, let's have the
satan this cup because there's like fourteen percent of people
now we'll say they're Satanist. Why don't you just have
a pert satan We're not endorsing it, it's just it's
on the teleprompter. Then what do you say, Well, it
worked last time, so you win the presidency and God willing,
I want Donald Trump to be presidents. I so much
evil's done through Cammy Harris and Joe Biden. No question
to me who I'm going to vote for. But I'm
looking at this saying you are putting the souls of
the followers of the RNC at risk. And this is
a day after God saved your life, President Trump. This
is just everything we've been talking about with kings turning
their back on God. And my position on this is
they shouldn't have done it. Here's the pushback free speech.
This is a free speech country. They have to allow that.
They can't stop that, they can't ban prayers, not banning prayers.
So I haven't been able to sufficiently explain to people
why a political victory is not worth your soul or
your soul of your members. And I've never in my
podcasting career this topic is the one that has people
most angry at me. So help me, or maybe you agree,
maybe you agree with all my listeners. I'm a completely
I'm a first of all.
Speaker 3: What I got from that was they were saying, Hey,
we all believe in one God, and Allah is the
same God as the Christian God. We just call him
by a different name. Okay, that's absolutely untrue. That's absolutely untrue.
The god of war from the Arabs, Allah, you know,
different God, not the same. There's only one way to heaven,
that's true, Jesus Christ. If you can just if you
can just believe in any god, then then God the
Father is an abuser. But because you could have been
saved in another way other than putting Jesus on the cross,
why send him? If everyone he's okay, if they're sincere already,
you know, why sit out the disciples to go and
die when they're fine already. No, Jesus said, I'm the
way the truth life. No one comes to the Father
except for me. So if they would have done something
like this, Hey, we believe in the that that God
is an important part of what we believe. We recognize
that you believe in different gods, and so in order
to not offend you, we're not going to pray at all. Right,
I'd have been Okay, yep, I mean you're right.
Speaker 1: There is free speech, but that doesn't mean I have
to use my freedom of speech to speak. Do you
understand I'm saying there's some things I'm just not going
to say. I'm certainly not going to say that it's
the same God, not going to do it. I'm not
going to ask people to pray to a God that
I don't think exists, or act as though we're all
I'm not going to promote anything that says any God's
name will do it's all the same. I'm not going
to do it now here.
Speaker 3: To give people the benefit of the doubt, there have
been times where I know whoever's praying, maybe it's a Mormon,
maybe it's a whatever. I'm they have the right to
do that.
Speaker 1: Somebody is elected to have them do that, there's going
to be a moment of silence, and while they're up
there praying, I am going to bow my head and
pray to God in Jesus' name for them. I'm going
to give the benefit.
Speaker 3: Of the doubt that everybody did that bowed their head
didn't believe that there was just one God there, right.
I just think what they did was unwise to insinuate
that it's all the same God in the name of
inclusivity or diversity, because as a Christian I cannot. I
cannot go along with there's any God will do or
there's no God. I can't stand for that.
Speaker 1: Now. At the same time, I'm okay being somewhere and
not having things go my way.
Speaker 3: Right, you have to be okay with that. In the
American culture and in the world we live in, I
can be shut out. They don't have to let me
speak at all. They don't have to. I don't have
to like it, but I'm not going to do anything
that says I agree with what you're saying or doing same.
And that's very well said and probably better than I
said it. And my view on this is very simple
that my priority is souls. It is My priority is Heaven,
the kingdom. And I don't care about the R and
C even a little bit, even though you used to
be in the leadership team there, I truly don't care.
I care about the country. Obviously wants the country to
be okay, But I don't think the country can be
okay if we're not first concentrating on souls. Yeah, I
think we have it upside down. Let's do the country
and then look then talk about souls.
Speaker 1: Remember Shadrack Mishek and have been to go in the
Book of Daniel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So Nebucannezeer says, I red this God. I'm
gonna play these songs and you're all gonna bow down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And they say they said no, they didn't
pick it, they didn't say anything. All they did is
they just stood. Now. Now these people came, the Nebukanezer's
guys came and said, hey, those guys aren't doing this,
and they tried to make them do it, and.
Speaker 3: They said, hey, our God is able to save us,
but even if he doesn't, I will not bow down
and worship.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So you know the story of Shadwick me share so
if you're if you're trying to get up there and
say this is we all believe in God, the Seekh God,
the Muslim God, the Mormon God, and the Christian God,
and it's all the same thing.
Speaker 1: Can't do it.
Speaker 3: If you're gonna say, hey, we're gonna have a moment
of prayer for you to pray to whichever god you
know quotation marks you want to pray to.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to pray to my God, who is
the only God, who is God.
Speaker 3: And you're going to be foolish to pray to somebody else.
You know, the New Testament says you're actually praying to demons.
If there's anything there at all, I'm not going to
pray to that. And I'm not going to say that's okay.
But I don't have to say anything in a world
that chooses to be secular. If I'm in Islam country,
you know, Pakistan, whatever, Hey, I'm not going to worship
your God. I'm not going to bow down.
Speaker 1: Even if it means you take my life.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go worship mine. Now you say I can't
worship mine. I may not go to a church building
on Sunday, but I'm going to do it in my house.
You may make that illegal, but I'm going to do
it in secret in my house with as many believers
as I can get together. And Christians do that all
around the world and at the risk of their lives,
and there's persecution coming here. We're putting people in prison
for praying inside abortion clinics. We're tracking them down.
Speaker 1: That's here. Now, let's pretend. Let's not pretend otherwise. I
wanted you to relay to the podcast family this story.
You told that you did it during a sermon. It's
non biblical, but I think it's a great illustration of
the sacrifice that the Lord made for us through the
Lord Jesus, and I'd like it if you tell that.
In just a second, I can tell you something that
I sacrificed some money in some time to go down
to Mexico. And there's a trade off on all things.
I'm not here to tell you that renew that healthcare
suddenly takes. You know, can take all insurance. Often they can't.
They made a trade to be located in Mexico so
they can practice actual health care, not medicine healthcare. They
use a miraculous creation of God, which is the stem cell,
and in their case it is from umbilical cords and placentas.
Only in this country that stuff has burned as medical waste.
The cells in that are so utterly miraculous in that
they are building block cells their potential power. And in
the case of renew they pay for the complete child
birth of these women. They track the health of the
women and the children, they select only the healthiest stem cells.
Then they actually culture those stem cells. So in the
case of my shoulder, I had forty five million of
them put it on my shoulder. My recovery was monumentally faster,
better than my last shoulder surgery, and they just had
my ankle done. But that's minor comparison to a woman
who was hemispherically paralyzed. She walked out of there. People
who've had massive low back problems lawer lumbar which can
get all the way up and affect your hands and
cause neuropathy, they can treat that. Here's what they'll do.
They'll tell you if they can help you, they will
put the very best stem cells in your body, millions
and millions and millions at a time, and they'll tell
you if they cannot help you, they'll be honest about that.
I wanted to hear with my life shoulder. Oh sure, yeah,
we can help you. They said, no, you're too far
gone my right shoulder. They said, you know what, You're
going to still have to have the operation, but we
can help your recovery. And they did go to renew
dot Healthcare. It's r E n U E. There's a
link in the show notes as well, renewed dot Healthcare.
Tell them you heard it about in the program. You're
part of the podcast family. They'll tell if they can
help you or not. Jim Pupmin's with me. There's a
link to Jim's books in the show notes as well.
And you told the story. It's a fictional story of
a king. And this hit me. Man. This is one
of the times in your sermons where I got a
bunch of dust in my eyes and I was just
really I didn't want to let you know that, but
I actually wept a little bit this story. So will
you tell that? Yeah? I will. Can I say one
more thing about your your my workout right now?
Speaker 2: No? No?
Speaker 1: No? Your the convention? Yeah, the Artsy Convention. Sure, yeah,
let me say this.
Speaker 3: I can be there with a bunch of people that
I share the values with, even though I don't share
God with.
Speaker 1: Sure, So I have no.
Speaker 3: Problem creating a platform of Mormons who also typically believe
abortion is sin.
Speaker 1: I can do all that. It's when you try to
force me to say we're the same thing. I can't
do that.
Speaker 3: So I can be at a big platform with people
who share my values, even though we don't have Jesus
as a lord. When you start trying to blend too
much together, now you actually separate what I can be
involved in.
Speaker 1: What I can't. Right, like, I call him meet Kaydyllon,
the woman who gave the prayer to the seat God.
I constantly when I say her name, say the patriot
he meet kay Dillon. Yeah, I believe she's a patriot. Right,
it's to me self evident that she loves this country. Right,
she is spending time and treasure and energy and putting
yourself at significant legal risk because look what they'll do
to people like her. So I can say she's a patriot.
I would join her trying to reform the R and C.
I know that thing is a big money grabbing SCAMMI
used to work there a joiner in that but I
would have to say to her, no, I can't do that.
Speaker 3: So the lack of wisdom by Trump and the rest
of these years, either Trump's unsaved or he is a
brand new believer who doesn't understand no, I can't do
certain things.
Speaker 1: He's not been discipled. You see what I'm saying. Yeah,
I saw something unlocking President Trump. I hope so No,
after the shooting, I saw the first sign of real
humility from him. And God has done Now this is me,
doesn't need to be you, but God has done miraculous
work through President Trump on a lot of things. Yeah.
I mean he has used President Trump. That's I mean,
like he can use anybody, He's used President Trump in
miraculous ways. I think the biggest one is tearing the
curtain of our temple. Our temple has been Washington, DC.
And I think God has used President Trump for a
lot of people to go, oh wait, they lied about COVID,
and they're lying about this FBI investigation, and they lied
about what's going on to the schools, and they're lying
about our debts, and they lied about Joe Biden not
being demented. And I think God is saying, hey, remember
when like Samuel warns you, here's what you're king, like,
I am the only king that really cares about you
and is not going to give him his corruption. You
can have me or them. So but yeah, I saw
President Trump speak with humility. I saw him actually make
fun of his hair dew the other day, self effacing humor.
I saw him say I'm not supposed to be alive.
And I firmly believe, Jim, I'm praying hard for that,
for that humility. That's been the piece to me, that
that I've prayed for with President Trump, because I believe
if he if he gets the Holy Spirit's humility, man
the way God could use him, like when Ike Kanye
West supposedly gave his life to Lord and was discipled.
Speaker 3: What happens is is we jump on the bandwagon too quick.
Because the Bible talks about the sower and the seed.
He threw seed on the ground hard ground. Birds came
and ate it up. The devil did on rocky soil.
Speaker 1: It grew up, but when the sun came out, it died. Right.
It's some on the weedi ground.
Speaker 3: So I wait to see what happens, and I struggle
to ever put a brand new believer in the role
of the limelight, because they don't have a lot of
root left. Unless somebody comes around them and they allow that,
they're going to be sucked into all kinds of improper ideas.
A brand new believer has so little understanding of how
they're supposed to live. There's a lack of wisdom in
their life. They need wiser people around them to help them.
And then so it doesn't surprise me that they're trying
to do something down there that might be politically valuable,
to have.
Speaker 1: A big tent so they can get votes. But spiritually speaking,
if you compromise the truth to say everybody saved, that's improper,
which means that if you say that, you're either not
a Christian or you're a baby Christian who doesn't know
what in the world you're talking about yet, or you're
doing the thing you talk about a lot, which is, hey, look,
Jim Church, but we got an election to win over yeah,
which is immature. Right, there's no asterisk when God said
worship no gods but me. Well, unless you know it's
a big election, right, So what I always say is
just don't try to mix those things up.
Speaker 3: Leave it a political campaign. Right, These are our values, right.
Don't try to make us agree on things we don't
have to agree on to win the election. When you
try to blend it all together, you're causing some you know,
you're given a message it just isn't true.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, I agree. I don't mean to force you
to tell a story. Oh I'll tell it. Okay, we
tell yeah, and I feel like a little boy, Tim
tell me a story. Oh. Now there's a story. And
again some people try to tie it to some actual events,
but it's a it's a basically a story to explain Jesus. Okay.
Speaker 3: So there was a king who had a country that
was becoming very immortal, and with this, all kinds of
things were happening, you know, adultery, fornication, sex was elevated,
and all the terrible things that come with it of
unwanted pregnancies, h you know, husbands finding their wives and
killing you know, it was just all kinds of health
issues you knew, And so the king made a decree.
Anyone caught in sex outside of marriage the price was
two eyes gonna burn your eyes out. So you know,
everybody you know.
Speaker 1: Either hides it or just goes whoa okay.
Speaker 3: So the king would come into court about once a week,
and it's about two weeks into this decree and he's
in court.
Speaker 1: There's long haul, you know.
Speaker 3: There's people that are there that are going to be
judged for that day, decisions are going to be made,
and in between two yards, clear down the way, uh
comes his son and his son's walking in proudly between
two guards. So he's not quite sure what's going on.
His son doesn't show any sort of regret or you know,
shame or anything, so he's like, huh, I wonder this
is weird. They bring him up, they stand him before
the throne and the crier, they hand the charges. The
crier declares adultery, and so he hears it and he
looks at his son, and his son just kind of
has this you know, whatever smirk, sort of a you know,
reads it, you know, and it's like nothing's going to happen.
And his father looks at his son and looks at
the people, and and he's so upset that he he
adjourns court and he says take him, take him to jail.
And his son is not happy about that. You know,
he's kind of swearing, look at.
Speaker 1: What do you do? And dad? And but so the
king goes into it, you know, back in the back
palace and and and he's like what am His wife
comes and like, hey, you're not you're not Why is
he in jail? Well, adultery?
Speaker 3: And and you're not gonna, I mean, you're not gonna
do that. So the king doesn't know what to do.
He brings in his advisors, and his advisors are One
of his advisors says, hey, you know this is your son.
You don't have to do that. And one of his
other advisers said, wait a minute, there's a lot more
at stake than that. You've you've burned out the eyes
of other people. You've done this, you've made this law
if you if you don't do this, you're going to
lose respect with the whole king kingdom. And his wife's like,
you can't do that. So he just he goes into
hiding for a few days, you know, he just thinking
and probably just he doesn't need he doesn't sleep. Finally,
he calls court back into session. And when he calls
court back into session, everybody's heard about this.
Speaker 1: So the kingdom is just lined out the doors, the
courtroom is full and.
Speaker 3: They bring his son in, who now looks like he
hasn't showered and he's thoroughly irritated, up to the front
and they read the charges again and his son just
is frustrated and smirking and looking at his dad. And
his dad looks at his son in the eyes and
says what he said to others who have been charged
with this, He said, put him down. So they force
him to his knees. And as soon as he had
you that, his son's like, Dad, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: And he and he says to the guards. The guards
are there, and he says, do it. And so the
guards are like, they put the poker in the fire,
you know, and it starts heating up, and the whole
time the sun goes from anger to name calling to
now he's crying and weeping, right, don't dad it? I'm
so sorry. And so they guards he's like, do it.
So they take the poker and they go and they're
doing it slow, watching the dad, you know, as he said, joke,
because he's not going.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 3: Finally, into the son's left eye, the poker goes the
sun screw. You know, the mother is weeping. You know,
the crowd is like, oh, my goodness, right, And so
they pulled the poker out, getting ready to put it
into the son's right eye, and just before they put
it into his son's right eye, the king says, halt,
and so they stop, and so he gets down off
the throne, kneels down next to his son, and he says,
you'll take my right eye.
Speaker 1: And so they burnt the king's right eye out. Yeah.
And so at the end of all this, what is
the king saying to his son The law is the law,
we live by it, and I love you so much,
and I love the people so much. The law had
to be upheld and I had to hurt too.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So he basically saying, this is how much I hate sin.
This is the cost of sin, but this is how
much I love you, and I'm willing to pay that
price to complete And so in Christ Jesus on the Cross,
it's a two sided message. On the one side, when
God said if you sin, you will die, and the
cost of sin is death, it's a message to everybody.
If I will put my son on the cross for
your sin, I will put you in hell, because that's
what it's worth. Sin unrighteousness.
Speaker 3: That's the value of it and from God's perspective. But
this is also how much I love you. I am
willing to go on the cross. I'm willing to send
my son on the cross to pay that. So you
choose Jesus pays it or you pay it. But that's
the cost God wants. He knows we've sinned. He wants
to love us. He wants us to let him.
Speaker 1: Love us, so he gave us a gospel of choice.
Relationship requires choice. You get to choose how you relate
to God through Christ Jesus or because of your sin
through judgment. Yeah, well said, I'd love that you shared
that again. There's a link to Jim's books in the
show notes Real life ministries post fall as Idaho A
senior pastor. Much for the honor. Just to say, friend,
thank you for coming on. Always a pleasure. Lord, thank
you for your word, thank you for who you are,
thank you for this day, and thank you for allowing
us to continue to be mazed at who you are.
This is the Todd Hermit Show. Please go, be well,
be strong, be kind, and please make every effort to
walk in the light of Christ.