1 00:00:28,399 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from 2 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,880 boy Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham in a 3 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,399 moment where you're going to bring you this week's episode 4 00:00:42,079 --> 00:00:45,119 of Dragnet. But first, I do want to encourage you, 5 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,520 if you're enjoying the podcast, to please follow us using 6 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:55,679 your favorite podcast software. Our listener support and appreciation campaign continues. 7 00:00:56,159 --> 00:00:58,920 You can support the show on a one time basis 8 00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:02,359 using the zell app, and I want to go ahead 9 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:06,280 and thank Christopher for supporting the program that way. 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Now, 18 00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:44,719 I spoke not too long ago on the Great Adventurers 19 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,560 podcast about trigger warnings and now I generally don't use them, 20 00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:55,319 but this is an episode that had a advisory at 21 00:01:55,359 --> 00:02:00,319 the time somewhat vaguely worded, I will encourage lessen nurse 22 00:02:00,359 --> 00:02:03,200 to take that seriously. This one is a rough one, 23 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,120 but that out of the way. Let's go ahead. July fifth, 24 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:09,960 nineteen fifty one. Here is the big Love. 25 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen. This program is for you, not your children. 26 00:02:24,759 --> 00:02:27,759 The story you were about to hear is true, only 27 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:38,800 the names have been changed to protect the innocent. You're 28 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,560 a detective sergeant. You're assigned to homicide detail. A woman 29 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:47,080 and her two year old child disappears suddenly, there's no 30 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:53,039 apparent reason for it. Five days pass, no trace of them. 31 00:02:53,319 --> 00:03:05,120 Your job find them. 32 00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 3: Drag Net the documented drama of an actual crime. For 33 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,560 the next thirty minutes, in cooperation of the Los Angeles 34 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,479 Police Department, you will travel, step by step on the 35 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,120 side of the law through an actual case, transcribed from 36 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,800 official police buyouts, from beginning to end, from crime to punishment. 37 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:24,759 Drag Net is the story of your police force in action. 38 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,439 Speaker 4: It was Tuesday, April twentieth, was overcast in Los Angeles. 39 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:33,479 We're working the day watch out of homicide. My partner's 40 00:03:33,479 --> 00:03:36,680 Ben Romero. The boss is Captain Blaine Steve. My name's Friday. 41 00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:39,120 I was on the way back from communications and it 42 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,120 was one thirty five pm when I got to Room 43 00:03:41,159 --> 00:03:43,520 forty two homicide. 44 00:03:45,439 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 5: A Hi, Joe, it's still for not much may word. 45 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:50,800 Ben goes inside. Captain Jervis be right back. 46 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 6: Oh thank you, keeping you busy. 47 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 5: I'm about the same little hectic around the household. 48 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 6: Well that's right. 49 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 4: Ben mentioned something about that you're getting ready for a 50 00:03:59,719 --> 00:04:00,599 wedding out there, aren't you. 51 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. My daughter Alice sure getting a nice fellow. That's 52 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,360 so yeah, ambitious kid, part time account, goes to law 53 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,080 school at night down Loyola. Real nice fellow. On to 54 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,759 getting married a week from Saturday's gonna be a big 55 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,520 church thing. Sure, glad doesn't happen often. Oh what I 56 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,079 mean big production. Never saw so many bills in my life. 57 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,040 New dress for Alice going away, luggage, bridesmaids dresses, eats, drinks, 58 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:25,560 new carpets for the hall, new curtains in the living room. 59 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,319 Wife must think I made of the stuff. 60 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 6: You should have had all boys make. Yeah, you're giving 61 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:30,879 your daughter away? 62 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,199 Speaker 5: Huh yeah, Well it reminds me I got to be 63 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,000 sure and send my suit the cleaners. Get a good 64 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,079 press job on. It sure is funny. 65 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 6: What's that? 66 00:04:38,879 --> 00:04:40,959 Speaker 5: It seems for years a wife's been afraid we'd never 67 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,279 get Alice married off. Now it's finally and the works 68 00:04:43,319 --> 00:04:46,879 of wife's still unhappy. Oh that those are moping around 69 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,439 the house wiping it. Her eyes keeps muttering something about 70 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:51,560 losing her little girl, her little girls leaving her. 71 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,199 Speaker 6: I don't know, Well, how old is your daughter? Thirty two? 72 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 5: Well, let'll be down stats office if anybody wants, right 73 00:04:57,759 --> 00:04:59,360 mac oh, fard. 74 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:00,759 Speaker 6: Me BENI I didn't see. 75 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 4: Hi. 76 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 7: Where you been making a couple of phone calls? I 77 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,040 think we might have some Yeah, what's that the Gorman case? 78 00:05:08,199 --> 00:05:09,759 I had to call from one of the neighbors while 79 00:05:09,759 --> 00:05:10,279 you were gone. 80 00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 6: Uh? Where is that calendar of our see? I don't know. Well, 81 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,879 here I got one in my pocket, here in my wallet. 82 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,439 Oh here you are? 83 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:22,439 Speaker 7: Okay, Well let's see now missus Gorman and a little girl. 84 00:05:22,519 --> 00:05:24,759 Nance She disappeared on the fifteenth, Is that right? 85 00:05:24,879 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 6: Yeah? Thursday? 86 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:28,399 Speaker 7: Quiet and her husband, mister Gorman father the missing complaint 87 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:29,360 on Friday morning? 88 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 6: Right? Yeah? What are you getting at? 89 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 8: Well? 90 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 6: You remember when we talked to mister Gorman, he couldn't 91 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,240 think of any reason why his wife and his little 92 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,560 girl should disappear like I did. 93 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,399 Speaker 7: Yeah, remember me asking him the question if his wife 94 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:40,759 ran around at all, if she was. 95 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 6: Interested in any other man. That's right, he told you. 96 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,639 Speaker 7: Not this man who just called in. He lives out 97 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:47,959 in the Gorman neighborhood. He swears up and down that 98 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,879 Missus Gorman was keeping company with another man. 99 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,519 Speaker 6: Who is this neighbor anyway, name's John Pearson, lives about 100 00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:54,319 four blocks. 101 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:56,399 Speaker 4: From the Gormans. Well, we talked to neighbors a lot 102 00:05:56,439 --> 00:05:58,360 closer than that to the Gormans. They didn't seem to 103 00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:00,759 know anything about it. What else the sky tell you? 104 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 7: Let's see, the man Missus Gorman was supposed to be 105 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,079 running out with is a Ralph kan his next door 106 00:06:07,079 --> 00:06:07,800 to mister Pearson. 107 00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 6: Well, how does Pearson sound you? 108 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,399 Speaker 7: Pretty typical neighborhood watch dog. But here's the interesting part. 109 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,319 Missus Gorman and little daughter Nancy disappeared last Thursday. Now 110 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,720 Gordon appearson is Ralph Kane. Hasn't been seen around since 111 00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:22,040 Friday night. He told me on the phone he saw 112 00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:24,160 Keane toss a couple of suitcases in his car late 113 00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:25,480 Friday night and drive off. 114 00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:28,519 Speaker 6: So he hasn't come back yet. It might be something. 115 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,639 Speaker 4: Well, how much of a romance was missus Gorman supposed 116 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:33,000 to be having with this Ralph Kane. 117 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,319 Speaker 7: It's pretty heavy. Cordon and Pearson said it's been going 118 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,079 on for six months anyhow. 119 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 6: And mister Gorman didn't know anything about it and got 120 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:40,319 me there. 121 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 7: If he did, he didn't let us in on it. 122 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,040 Wonder if you'd have any reason to cover it up. 123 00:06:45,519 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 4: It's possible, I guess didn't want the scandal. How sure 124 00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:50,800 are you that Ralph Kane's really missing? Might be just 125 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:51,560 off on the weekend. 126 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 9: No. 127 00:06:51,879 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 7: I checked the place he worked, he's a printer. Didn't 128 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,079 show up for work. Money, didn't show up a day either, 129 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:59,240 no message, no excuse. I think I called a friend 130 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,680 of Kane's. Appears new bott. Friend doesn't no where he's going. Well, 131 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,079 I guess we better get on it. It's the first 132 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:09,839 decent lead in five days. Yeah, just thanking Joe. Neighbors 133 00:07:09,879 --> 00:07:15,959 like Pearson? What would we do with them? 134 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 4: Five days before, on a Thursday evening, a mister Phillip 135 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,600 Gorman returned to his home in the Westlake district of 136 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:24,720 Los Angeles to find his wife, Barbara Gorman and his 137 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:28,240 two year old daughter, Nancy missing. There wasn't any note, 138 00:07:28,279 --> 00:07:32,160 no explanation of any kind. Few clothes were gone. Mister 139 00:07:32,199 --> 00:07:34,839 Gorman filed a missing report, and a broadcast and an 140 00:07:34,879 --> 00:07:36,920 APB were gotten out on the mother and daughter. 141 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:40,399 Speaker 6: Neighbors, friends and relatives were checked. No leads. 142 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:45,079 Speaker 4: Routine investigation failed to turn up anything. Mister Gorman could 143 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,480 give us no explanation for the disappearance. After three days 144 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,720 we got out of a radiogram, still no results. Tuesday one, 145 00:07:52,759 --> 00:07:54,279 Ben and I got in the car and drove out 146 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:56,959 to see John Pearson, who'd phoned in the information about 147 00:07:56,959 --> 00:08:01,199 Missus Gorman's supposed boyfriend, Ralph Kine. We found Pierson out 148 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:02,959 on the back porch of his home beating some milk 149 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,480 to a pair of housecats. 150 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:08,519 Speaker 10: I thought everybody knew that sergeant Missus Gorman running around 151 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,720 with that Ralph Kane. I'm all busy, buddy. I wouldn't 152 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,199 have mentioned it at all if this hadn't happened. 153 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,319 Speaker 7: And you say Kane had been seeing Missus Gorman for 154 00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:16,319 the last six months? Is that right, mister Peers for 155 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:18,240 about six months? That's how long I've seen it go on. 156 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:21,279 James don't be such a hog. Let Fred have some 157 00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:23,480 of the milk too, Beaty, little the devil. 158 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,519 Speaker 4: Do you know of anybody else in the neighborhood who's 159 00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:27,560 been aware of this, mister Pearson, I mean Missus Gorman 160 00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:28,439 and miss Ralph Keane. 161 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:30,759 Speaker 10: Well, I know for sure that Tholoma White next door 162 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,320 knows about it. She's mentioned it to me. Kane used 163 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,440 to park with Missus Gorman near that vacant lot by 164 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,159 Thoma's house. 165 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,279 Speaker 6: Those were the knife that mister Grman was working late. 166 00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:40,639 Speaker 4: Would you know if mister German was aware of this 167 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,399 that his wife was running around with another man. 168 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,639 Speaker 10: I'm pretty sure he did. Sergeant, that's a strange part 169 00:08:44,639 --> 00:08:46,879 about him. Well, how do you know George, the man 170 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:48,919 who delivers the groceries. He just happened to mention it 171 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:52,679 to me once. All right, James, right, it's all gone, 172 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,200 I run. 173 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 6: Off and play. 174 00:08:55,039 --> 00:08:57,039 Speaker 10: Yes, George the grocer man, he made a delivery to 175 00:08:57,039 --> 00:09:00,000 the Gormans wants and heard them round about it. George said, 176 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,600 mister Gorman was very mad, talk divorce, all that sort 177 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:02,879 of thing. 178 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,399 Speaker 4: Well, how about the Gorman's little girl, mister Pearson, little 179 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,720 Nancy tragic Sergeant, such a sweet little thing. 180 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:10,879 Speaker 10: Missus Gorman kept her under an iron hand. Imagine the 181 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:13,159 little girl is only two years old. Missus Gorman was 182 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:15,320 after her with a stick all the time. She's not 183 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:17,000 much of a mother, not the way I look at 184 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,679 it anyway. Well, what's your opinion of all this? Do 185 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:21,559 you think that Ralph Kane has run off with missus 186 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:22,440 Gorman or what else? 187 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 6: Can you think? Two of them carry on for six months? 188 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 10: Missus Gorman disappears Thursday, Mister Kane leaves Friday night. 189 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:29,159 Speaker 6: What else can you think? 190 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 7: This neighbor year is tell them a White? Does she 191 00:09:32,039 --> 00:09:33,759 live in this house over here? We're going to right, 192 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,960 that's right right next door. You go over and talk 193 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,240 to her. She's home now, thelm will tell you the 194 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,600 same thing I did. All thank you very much, not 195 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,399 at all, sergeant. Just one thing I can't understand about 196 00:09:43,399 --> 00:09:47,320 missus Gorman's little girl, Little Nancy. Can't quite understand why 197 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,639 she's gone. Doesn't seem to fit somehow. How do you 198 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,720 mean if you're gonna run off with a man, you 199 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:52,840 don't take your family along. 200 00:09:57,639 --> 00:10:01,399 Speaker 4: Two fifteen pm we went door and talked with the neighbor, 201 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:04,720 Delma White. She told us the same story as Pearson. 202 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:08,399 From the two of them, we got the description DMV 203 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,720 furnished just with the license number of Ralph Kaine's car. 204 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,120 We checked further with Keane's friends, relatives, and his landlady. 205 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,240 No one had seen or heard from him since late Friday. 206 00:10:18,799 --> 00:10:21,799 We searched the duplex where he lived, no leeds. We 207 00:10:21,879 --> 00:10:23,879 went back to the office and checked Kane through R 208 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,840 and I. He had won arrest for petty theft. We 209 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,600 got out a broadcast and an APB on him. Lat night, 210 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,440 Ben and I drove out to see the husband and 211 00:10:32,519 --> 00:10:35,399 father of the missing woman and youngster, Philip Gorman. He 212 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,639 was employed as a groundskeeper at one of the baseball 213 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:38,519 parks in the city. 214 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 8: Pretty fair, it turned out tonight. 215 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,279 Speaker 4: Huh, Yeah, weather's cleared up a little. 216 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 5: Bobby helped. 217 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:46,759 Speaker 8: Huh. 218 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:48,399 Speaker 6: Where's the groundkeeper shacked out. 219 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 8: The end there? Yeah, you can't see it from here. 220 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,799 It's just below the end of the bleachers there. 221 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,639 Speaker 6: Oh, it's come out here very often, not as often 222 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,720 as i'd like to. He's down this way. 223 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,039 Speaker 7: Hey, watch your step for Joey's and mud butter. 224 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, I see it. 225 00:11:04,279 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 10: Oh, sorry, you're allowed to get back in the stands. 226 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,919 You're not allowed down in the sand. Hurry, mister Gorman 227 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:12,200 fighting Ramaro you Yeah, sure, I didn't recognize you for 228 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:12,519 a minute. 229 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 6: You got a few minutes. Mister Gormant would like to 230 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:14,799 talk to you if we could. 231 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 10: We're sure right now if you're on you found out 232 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,960 something about the wife a little girl. 233 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 6: No, it's there's nothing definite. We got a few questions. 234 00:11:21,039 --> 00:11:21,919 We'd like to ask you. 235 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 8: What's fine with me? I got nothing to do for 236 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,399 a couple of mornings. What's it all about? 237 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,639 Speaker 7: When we talked to you at your house the other day, Garman, 238 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,559 you remember me asking if you could think of any 239 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,159 reason why your wife and your little. 240 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 5: Girls would disappeared like you did. 241 00:11:32,759 --> 00:11:35,399 Speaker 8: Yeah, I remember, there's nothing like to think of, Sergeant. 242 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 4: Would you recall us asking you if your wife might 243 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,639 have been interested in some other man, somebody she might 244 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:40,080 go off with. 245 00:11:40,279 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 8: Yeah, I remember what I told you. I didn't think 246 00:11:42,759 --> 00:11:43,120 that was it. 247 00:11:43,879 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 4: Now, look, if you know something and you're not telling 248 00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:48,200 us because you don't want to scandal, you can forget that, Garman, 249 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,120 because whatever you tell us is in the strict confidence. 250 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 8: You know, I don't know what you're reading, Sergeant. I 251 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,039 told you everything I know, and we'll be honest with you. Garman. 252 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,559 We think you're trying to cover up. Well that's not true. 253 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,360 I don't have anything to cover up. 254 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 6: We picked up some new information on your wife this afternoon. 255 00:12:01,759 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 4: Well here she was pretty friendly with a man named 256 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:05,840 Ralph King, lives a few blocks in your house. 257 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,639 Speaker 6: Well here that you knew what was going on. You 258 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,240 and your wife Barbara had a row. You talk divorce, 259 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:12,000 how about it? 260 00:12:12,919 --> 00:12:15,519 Speaker 10: Well, let's go inside the shack here. I don't get 261 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:24,879 away from some of this noise. Fine, sure, I hope 262 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:25,720 you don't mind it in here. 263 00:12:25,759 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 8: It's a little dirty. I keep all the maintenance. 264 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:28,639 Speaker 6: Stuff in here. 265 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 10: That's all right, Gleming. Now, how about Ralph King? Yeah, yeah, 266 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,080 I knew about it. It's like you said, all the scam. 267 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,600 I just didn't want to get out. 268 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,879 Speaker 6: Well, look, if you're going to hold out unless it's 269 00:12:38,919 --> 00:12:40,399 not going to help much to find your wife a. 270 00:12:40,399 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 10: Little good, I know, surgeon. I just didn't want people 271 00:12:43,639 --> 00:12:45,039 to find out what a bum I married it. 272 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 6: You know what. 273 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,039 Speaker 10: Some neighbors were like, I can't understand how happened. I 274 00:12:50,759 --> 00:12:52,039 met the wife when I was in the army. 275 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 6: We'll see. 276 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,799 Speaker 10: I brought her back out here. Everything was fine. After 277 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:58,440 the baby was born, she started to change. Nothing satisfies. 278 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,679 You be going to run around. I'm but a bum, 279 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,399 and I guess I found out too late. You know 280 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,360 it's Ralph Kane. What do you know about him? You 281 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,720 know his single guy works at the print shop downtown. 282 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:10,679 Pretty good looking, guy's got money to spend. It's all 283 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:11,480 Barbara cares about. 284 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 7: What's your idea about her? You think Kane and your 285 00:13:14,519 --> 00:13:15,600 wife have gone off to get it. 286 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:16,519 Speaker 6: I'll tell her the truth. 287 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 8: I'm not sure. 288 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:18,039 Speaker 6: Maybe they did. 289 00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 10: I've been trying to check around them all. I'm not 290 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,360 getting very far. Only one thing I'm really worried about. 291 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:26,879 That's my little girl, Nancy. I don't care what my 292 00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:29,159 wife does or how far she goes. I just want 293 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:30,120 my little girl by good. 294 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 6: So wasn't you any idea at all where your wife 295 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:32,679 might have gone? 296 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,519 Speaker 10: Oh? None at all. She has no California too run. 297 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:37,559 She's only been out here here. 298 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 4: You don't know any of Keane's friends, is hangouts or 299 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,120 the places you think he might go. 300 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,919 Speaker 10: I'd never eally met the guy, so I'm going to. 301 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,159 I know what he looks like, I'll meet him. 302 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 7: There was just one more thing going. And if your 303 00:13:50,039 --> 00:13:52,240 wife was set on running off with another man, why 304 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,480 did you take your little girl with her? He wasn't 305 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:56,840 too devoted to the baby on her hand. 306 00:13:56,919 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 10: That's right. That's What's got me worried. The only thing 307 00:13:59,159 --> 00:14:01,960 I can figure out is a wife hated me more 308 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,320 than I thought she knew that. I thought Nancy's about 309 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,960 the greatest thing alive. Guess rather and let me have her. 310 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:08,639 She took Nancy on. 311 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 4: Was it possible she might drop the baby off as 312 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,240 I'm friend or relative and tell them to keep on. 313 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 10: I've checked on that already. You got the names of 314 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:18,240 all the people we know. I'm sure they'd get in 315 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,080 touch with it if they had little. 316 00:14:19,799 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 7: Devil check them anyhow. Now, does anything else comes up, 317 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,519 you let us know right away. All right, Sergey, It's 318 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,360 just a baby. That's all Nancy's as far as I'm concerned. 319 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,360 My wife never lived. Kind of hard to take him with, 320 00:14:32,799 --> 00:14:35,080 Yes it is. I think you got the finest set 321 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:39,519 up in the world. Nice home, job, baby, good furniture, 322 00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:41,799 everything you need, yeah, everything. 323 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:42,279 Speaker 8: But a wife. 324 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 4: The search for the missing wife and the two year 325 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:51,919 old daughter went on the broadcasts and teletypes on Missus 326 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,200 Gorman and Ralph Kine failed to let us a thing. 327 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 6: A week passed there were no leads. Another week went 328 00:14:58,279 --> 00:14:59,279 by nothing. 329 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 4: The half dozen replies we'd gotten on our teletype went nowhere. 330 00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 6: They were blind leaves. 331 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 4: Wednesday, May FIP, we got a call from the manager 332 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,279 of an auto court in the south end of the city. 333 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 6: He told us that a man, a woman and a 334 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:13,440 little girl. 335 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 4: Answering the description of the missing trio had stopped at 336 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,879 his place the night before. Along with Jack McCready from Homicide, 337 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:23,559 Ben and I drove out and interviewed the man. We 338 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,080 showed him pictures of King, Missus Gorman, and two year 339 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,000 old Nancy. He identified all three. He could give us 340 00:15:29,039 --> 00:15:31,360 no idea where they'd gone. We checked through the cottage 341 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:32,080 where they stayed. 342 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:34,519 Speaker 5: No, nothing. 343 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:37,519 Speaker 7: It's about as clean as you can get a little 344 00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:41,360 something here, what's that o' here? 345 00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:47,519 Speaker 6: Kid's picture book? Let's see. Yeah, take a look right here. 346 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:52,480 This book belongs to Nancy Gorman. Well, we know they 347 00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:56,679 were here, that's about it. Yeah, Mac, where are you. 348 00:15:59,360 --> 00:15:59,759 Speaker 5: All right? 349 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 6: What did you got? 350 00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:06,919 Speaker 8: Mayor? 351 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 6: I have a look, where'd you find that? 352 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 5: Poking around this trash barrel? Here? It's like part of 353 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,159 a little girl's dress. Huh, yeah, there's not much there. 354 00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:17,919 Did you find the rest, Elley? Oh that's all there 355 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,000 is just that little collar. 356 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 6: We take a look here, Ben, the stains right here 357 00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:26,840 over here too. Yeah, what do you think may blood stains? 358 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:27,559 I'd say so. 359 00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:33,639 Speaker 4: We drove back to the office, to the crime lab 360 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,399 and had Lee Jones run the stains on the dress. 361 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:39,919 He ran a benzadeine test and then a biological precipitin 362 00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:44,360 the stains were made by human blood. Well, it still 363 00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:46,399 didn't put us any closer to the missing child or 364 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:46,879 her mother. 365 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,519 Speaker 6: The search went on. We redoubled our efforts. No luck. 366 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,799 Another ten days passed. 367 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 4: We had a few more responses to our all Points bulletin, 368 00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:56,840 but none of them panned out. 369 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 6: On May sixteenth, we got two more leads to check out. 370 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:03,720 They went nowhere. We got back to the office a 371 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:05,079 little after six pm. 372 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 7: Better call mister Gorman after we check in. Keep him 373 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,799 off of our back. Yeah, I hate to keep telling 374 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:11,599 him the same thing. 375 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 6: No word? Yeah, how about it? You call Gormant tonight? 376 00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:19,799 Speaker 5: Uh, mac, let's Dylan got something for your sheriff substation 377 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,640 called East LA. 378 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 6: What about the Gorman case. 379 00:17:22,279 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 5: They found him another auto court right there in East 380 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:26,880 La Ralph Kine and Missus Gorman. 381 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 6: They got him both under surveillance. How about the little girl, Nancy, Well, 382 00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:31,680 that's a hitch. No sign of her. 383 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 3: You are listening to dragnet authentic cases from official files. 384 00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 4: Saturday, May sixteenth, nine pm, along with Levinson McCready from Hamas, 385 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,039 Ben and I drove out to the Sheriff's substation in 386 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:05,720 the east end of the city. One of the deputy 387 00:18:05,759 --> 00:18:08,240 sheriffs directed us to the motor court where Missus Barbara 388 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,079 Gorman and Ralph Kane were under surveillance. We found the 389 00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:14,000 two of them in one of the rear cottages. There 390 00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:17,680 was no trace of two year old Nancy Gorman. Levinson 391 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,759 and McCready took Ralph Kane out to the car to 392 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:22,640 interrogate him. Ben and I remained in the cottage with 393 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,799 Missus Gorman. She was a tall, blonde, thin faced and nervous. 394 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,160 She spoke with a decided accent. We questioned her for 395 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,880 more than two hours. We got nowhere. 396 00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 6: Why don't you sit down, Missus Gorman? Relax? 397 00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 9: How can anyone relax these questions? 398 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 6: She have no right to do for this well, maybe 399 00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:40,039 you haven't got it straight. 400 00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:42,079 Speaker 4: Missus Gorman. This is a pretty important matter. We'd like 401 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:43,519 to find out about your little girl too. 402 00:18:43,599 --> 00:18:45,039 Speaker 9: Do I don't know she ran away? 403 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:45,559 Speaker 6: Yes, ma'am. 404 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,039 Speaker 4: Now we've had ten different versions. You stopped at a 405 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:50,079 hotel in Nevada and she disappeared. You were in an 406 00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:52,359 auto court in Bakersfield, she ran away during the night. 407 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,400 We've heard just about all of them. How about the truth? 408 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,519 Speaker 9: Told you everything? I'm going to tell you. I don't 409 00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:58,559 know what's happened to the kit. She's gone, that's all 410 00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:59,240 she's gone. 411 00:18:59,799 --> 00:19:01,759 Speaker 6: An explanation for it? Where is she gone? 412 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 9: She ran away? How many times do I have to 413 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,559 tell you? I left with Raf, who went out of 414 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:09,519 the city. After a few days, Nancy got lonesome. She 415 00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:11,839 wanted to see her father, who were asleep one night, 416 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,920 and she ran away. It's all there is to it. 417 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,799 It's simple. Why can't you understand? 418 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 4: Well, you're gonna have to do better than at Missus Garman. Now, 419 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:18,960 how about the truth? What happened? 420 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,559 Speaker 9: You can't keep me here all night? Where's Raf? I 421 00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:22,160 want Raff? 422 00:19:22,839 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 4: Why did you take the child with you in the 423 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,519 first place? Missus Garman, It's pretty obvious that she didn't 424 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:28,599 want her. Did king want you to take her along? 425 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 9: Oh? No, he wanted me to leave her, just he 426 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,279 and I. That's all he wanted. Should have left her 427 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:36,640 there all this trouble questions, It's. 428 00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:38,599 Speaker 6: An easy remedy, ma'am. What did you really do with 429 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:39,200 a little girl? 430 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,279 Speaker 9: She wanted off? The truth? We didn't know it. She 431 00:19:42,319 --> 00:19:43,599 wanted off. We couldn't help it. 432 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 6: How about the little dress? We found in that autocord 433 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:46,880 with dames on. 434 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 9: The same questions. She always asked the same. 435 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:51,079 Speaker 6: Questions, What about the dress? Ma'am? 436 00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 9: Do I always have to repeat? I told you? Rap 437 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,359 got his hand he was shaving. It was just a 438 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,319 no dress or rag. Rap bandaged his hand with it. 439 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,839 Speaker 6: Well, usually wear bandages a while out. You don't just 440 00:20:01,839 --> 00:20:02,440 throw him away. 441 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 9: It was only a scratch. She didn't need the rag 442 00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:05,200 very long. 443 00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 6: Quite a few stings on the dress man must have 444 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,319 been more than just a scratch. 445 00:20:08,519 --> 00:20:11,519 Speaker 9: No, it's just a scratch. Can't you believe anything I say? 446 00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:12,599 Speaker 6: No, not so far. 447 00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 9: Please? Can I go aside for a few minutes. I 448 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,279 have a headache. It's so hot in here? 449 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 6: All right, Miss Gorman? Go ahead? Many thanks. 450 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,799 Speaker 9: The air is so good, terrible headache? 451 00:20:35,759 --> 00:20:38,599 Speaker 6: You mind telling you something? Missus Garman, Please. 452 00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 9: Can't you let me alone for a minute? 453 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 6: Why did you leave your husband him? 454 00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 9: Any woman would leave him? 455 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 6: It's Rat. 456 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,519 Speaker 9: I love Rat and. 457 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:48,759 Speaker 6: Your little girl? What about her? 458 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,279 Speaker 9: My husband wanted her, not me. I'm just not like that. 459 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,319 I didn't want her in the first place. It was 460 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,839 a mistake, terrible mistake. 461 00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:59,559 Speaker 4: Is that why you got rid of it? But that's 462 00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:02,359 pretty obvious by this time, ma'am. When you left your husband, 463 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,559 you took your little girl along for Spike Kane didn't 464 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,839 wanter you found out you didn't either see you got. 465 00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 6: Rid of or NOAs that. 466 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,759 Speaker 9: I didn't say that putting words in my mouth. I 467 00:21:09,759 --> 00:21:10,559 didn't say that at all. 468 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 6: Joe Ben Yeah, might go here. 469 00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 5: Kein's giving us half the story. Shouldn't be too hard 470 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:17,240 to get the rest. 471 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 9: It's a lie. There's no story to tell. Nancy ran away. 472 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:20,799 That's all we know. 473 00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:23,839 Speaker 5: Mac Kaine says they tried some kind of a death packed. 474 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,799 He and missus Gorman here got in a room and 475 00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:26,720 turned on a gas. 476 00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:28,759 Speaker 9: He didn't tell you. He didn't tell you. 477 00:21:28,839 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 5: Afraid, So ma'am, that's your boyfriend's story. What else make Well, 478 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,200 as I say, Kane and missus Gorman got in the 479 00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:35,279 room agreed to end it all. 480 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 6: They had a little girl with him in the room. 481 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:38,039 Well why was that? 482 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,319 Speaker 5: Kane says, he doesn't know. Seemed to simplify things having. 483 00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 6: A kid with him. Can tell you what happened? 484 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, they turned on the gas. 485 00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 9: No, no, never mind, miss Garman, never mind, you don't 486 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:50,880 have to say it. 487 00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 6: Do you want to tell us about it? Miss Garman? 488 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 9: Yes, I'll tell you. 489 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 6: Three am. 490 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 4: We went back inside the cottage at the auto court. 491 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,519 We gave her a cigarette, and Barbara Gorman sat out 492 00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:11,200 and told us the story. Four days after she'd left 493 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,799 with her two year old daughter and Ralph Kin. She 494 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,880 knew she'd made a mistake. She admitted that she never 495 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,279 should have taken the child. She said the little girl 496 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,319 seemed to be in their way all the time. Cain 497 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,680 was all for deserting the child or sending her back 498 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,839 to her father. Missus Gorman wouldn't agree to it, just 499 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,279 out of pure spite. One night in an auto court, 500 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,799 she and Kin had a big drinking party. They brooded 501 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:37,160 over the mixup that they'd gotten themselves into. Cain didn't 502 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,480 have any money to get married. He knew he'd lost 503 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,599 his job. Even if they could get married, Missus Gorman 504 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,400 wasn't sure she could get a divorce. Another full day 505 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,599 and night of drinking, and they decided on a lover's 506 00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:49,920 death pack. They turned on the gas. 507 00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 7: I don't get it, missus Gorman. Why'd you have your 508 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,640 little girl in the room with you? Why didn't you 509 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,240 leave her with somebody, with anybody? 510 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,319 Speaker 9: Why she was mine? Wasn't she? I thought we could 511 00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:00,799 go together, all three of us, but it didn't work 512 00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:01,240 that way. 513 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:02,079 Speaker 6: Well what happened? 514 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 9: We Raff and I woke up. Throats were burning, My 515 00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:10,000 eyes were burning. Looked over Nancy. She wasn't moving. It 516 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,319 was just like she was asleep. 517 00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 6: Won't you do? 518 00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 9: Then we got in the car and left. We found 519 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,160 a nice place in the desert. There were nice flowers there. 520 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:19,960 We buried Nancy. 521 00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 6: How about you and Ralph Kin? You knew you were 522 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,480 in deeper? Why didn't you try it again? 523 00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 9: Oh? We did a couple of times. We loved each other, 524 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:29,799 the only thing we could do. But every time we tried, 525 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,359 we couldn't go through with it. We'd try, we never 526 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,640 could finish it. Raf got a job we were gonna 527 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,160 buy a gun. Tomorrow, we try again, and you. 528 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,759 Speaker 6: Show us where you buried your little girl. 529 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 9: Yes, placed in the desert out New Palm Springs. It 530 00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:47,960 was a nice place. There's lots of nice flowers around. 531 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,279 You understand, don't you. We were in love Ralph and I. 532 00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:58,839 My husband wouldn't understand the way I loved Raf twas everything. 533 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,200 It was the whole world. Raff and I. I didn't 534 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,319 mean it that way. For Nancy. There's a mistake. You've 535 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:08,079 got to understand. I didn't mean it that way. 536 00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 6: That's the way it is. 537 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,279 Speaker 9: It doesn't matter. You can't hurt us, not Traff and I. 538 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,359 You can't take away what we've got. You'll never take 539 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,079 that away. 540 00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 4: All right? 541 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,759 Speaker 6: Do you want to get you cooked? 542 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 9: Yes, it doesn't matter what happens. It's for half. I 543 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,960 don't care what they do. I'll keep on loving him 544 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,839 same way I love him Now, doesn't matter. We'll pay 545 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,079 for our mistakes. 546 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,319 Speaker 6: Yeh, lady, They're going to cost you. 547 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,759 Speaker 4: At five am, we put in a call for Lieutenant 548 00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:39,079 Lee Jones and the crime lab crew in the corner. 549 00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:41,720 When they arrived at the auto court, we drove to 550 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:43,920 the spot in the desert near Palm Springs, where Ralph 551 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,119 Kane and Missus Gorman pointed out the spot where they 552 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,000 buried Nancy. The body was uncovered at the exact spot 553 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,759 was taken back to town to the County Morgue, where 554 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:56,200 an autopsy was performed. Kane and Missus Gorman were booked 555 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,720 in suspicion of murder. By five o'clock that afternoon, we 556 00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:01,440 had the results of the autopsy. 557 00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:06,079 Speaker 5: Uh huh right, thank you bye. 558 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 6: What's the story? 559 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 5: Mah, not what we thought. I think Missus Gorman sold 560 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,759 us a bit of goods. Little girl didn't dine in a. 561 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 6: Room full of gas? What the docs say? 562 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 5: You found two bullet o's in the body. 563 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,759 Speaker 4: That night, after hours of interrogation, Ralph Kine and Missus 564 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,960 Barbara Gorman both broke down and confessed that they'd killed 565 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,000 the child in cold blood. They pleaded drunkenness that they 566 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,519 weren't responsible for their actions. They were returned to their 567 00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:37,400 cells and held without bail. The child's father, Philip Gorman, 568 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:39,720 was notified the following morning. 569 00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 6: Ben and I accompanied him to the County Morgue. It's 570 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,720 this way, mister Gorman. 571 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,079 Speaker 4: Oh thanks, Are you sure you want to go through 572 00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:57,799 with this, sir, mister Garland. 573 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 10: Well, I might as well tell you the truth. I'm 574 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:02,799 not sure I do. 575 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 6: It isn't going to help much, mister Gorman, believe me. 576 00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:10,599 I just wanted to see it just once more. Yeah, 577 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,160 Well it doesn't work, wouldn't be the same, not the 578 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:14,839 way you remember. 579 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 10: Just wanted to see it. I just wanted to find out. 580 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,240 What's it bottom mother, Ralph king, what is it that 581 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:27,799 can make them do it? Let me groce, he's only two. 582 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,160 What can make anybody do a thing like that? 583 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 6: Your wife called it love? 584 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,279 Speaker 2: The story you have just heard was true, only the 585 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,400 names were changed to protect the innocent. 586 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 3: On September tenth, the trial was held in Superior Court, 587 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,240 Department eighty nine, City and County of Los Angeles, State 588 00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:54,640 of California. In a moment the results of that trial, 589 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,160 Missus Barbara Gorman and Ralph Donald Kin were tried and 590 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,759 convicted in Superior Court of murder in the first degree. 591 00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:12,640 Missus Gorman was sentenced to life imprisonment. Kin received the 592 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,160 death penalty. He was executed at the State Penitentiary San Quentin, California. 593 00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:21,079 Speaker 2: Ladies and Gentlemen, the Bill of Rights section of the 594 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,519 United States Constitution protects our freedom. Today that freedom is 595 00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:30,920 endangered by tyranny and aggression. Every American must help make 596 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,279 our free government an example to all peoples by dedicating 597 00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:48,799 himself to a constant active citizenship. Freedom needs you. 598 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 3: You have just heard Dragnet, a series of authentic cases 599 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,200 from official files. Technical advice comes from the Office of 600 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:58,480 Chief of Police W. H. Parker, Los Angeles Police Department. 601 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: Stay tuned for Counterspy next over most NBC stations. 602 00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:22,799 Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is one of those stories that, now 603 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:28,079 that I'm a dad, it just hits really differently, really hard. 604 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,440 What these two people did I don't have works, at 605 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:38,599 least not edifying works. The suicide pack story was bad enough, 606 00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:43,759 but what actually happened was just horrific. The outcome speaks 607 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,599 to the reluctance of juries to give women the death penalty, 608 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,480 and that's the only explanation for why she would not 609 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:58,279 have been executed. On the production side, the opening lighthearted scene. 610 00:28:58,119 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 11: I'm sure I've heard before. 611 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm just not sure where. I thought that it was 612 00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:06,519 the big pair, but I wanted to listen to that, 613 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,640 and it had a different wedding related opener. The one 614 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,240 odd part of this episode was where Joe Friday's narration 615 00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:18,400 told us the woman spoke with a heavy accent. That's 616 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,319 one of those things that you shouldn't have to include 617 00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:25,680 a narration that should be obvious in an audio production 618 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,839 and kind of irrelevant if you were doing the drag 619 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,359 Net TV thing where they occasionally did, where you'll just 620 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,720 show them talking but not actually show the sound and 621 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,279 have Friday summarize what said. The accent that she used 622 00:29:42,359 --> 00:29:48,519 is actually kind of vaguely European than anything I can 623 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:53,000 specifically identify. Maybe it was out of some sensitivity to 624 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,839 issues with making it too specific given the nature of 625 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,119 the crime. You had many displaced persons in the world, 626 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,440 and many who had immigrated to the United States or 627 00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:08,680 wanted to immigrate to the United States, so highlighting a 628 00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:13,200 specific nationality may have been something they wanted to avoid. 629 00:30:13,799 --> 00:30:19,119 Listener comments and feedback Now, Christopher Rights love not bet 630 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,960 been listening since nineteen eighty five, and now to your podcast. 631 00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:26,240 Thank you Adam, Well, thank you Christopher. Really to appreciate 632 00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:30,720 your support and you're listening to the podcast, and we 633 00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:36,880 have some comments regarding the episode the Big Run Dawn Rights. 634 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,920 It may just be my point of view, but fifty 635 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,720 eight is an elderly in regard to the age of 636 00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:47,480 the one of the victims. Come on, Joe and Naomi. 637 00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:51,000 Joe says, Dawn, you beat me to it. I had 638 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:56,359 to rewind to check i'd heard it correctly. Mcke Mechanic 639 00:30:57,319 --> 00:31:01,960 sixty six pointed out, maybe not, but Jack Webb died 640 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,200 at sixty one. People tend to live longer. No, although 641 00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:11,599 lifespan for Americans is on a downward trajectory. I think 642 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,240 it's an interesting point and always want to be careful 643 00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:19,079 and sensitive to my audience. A lot of people, you know, 644 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,240 you hear your own age described as elderly. You gotta 645 00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:24,000 go ay. 646 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: I do think that. 647 00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: To expand on what Mechanics sixty six said, life was 648 00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:35,960 harder in the past. The further you go back and 649 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:40,960 you don't have to go back to this era. There 650 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,759 have been many points about how actors used to look older. 651 00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:49,400 You can go as recent as the first season of Seinfeld. 652 00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:55,400 Jason Alexander was twenty nine when he filmed that first season. 653 00:31:56,039 --> 00:32:00,400 Does not look twenty nine. Apologies to mister Alexander, but 654 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,960 at least not like a modern twenty nine year old, 655 00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:08,960 and it's even more stark one I saw compared Carol 656 00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:12,519 O'Connor at the age he started doing all in the 657 00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:18,119 family to Paul Rudd, much older than O'Connor was then. 658 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,599 And while there might be some Hollywood magic involved, even 659 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,799 looking at non celebrity photos through the family albums, people 660 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,359 just looked older. And I think life took more of 661 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,960 a toll it. You tended to have more people who 662 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000 were involved in hard physical labor, and there were so 663 00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:44,200 many things about diet and the way we took care 664 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,119 of ourselves, and then just the things that people had 665 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,160 been through. If you were a fifty eight year old 666 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,400 woman in nineteen fifty one, you were born in eighteen 667 00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:58,799 ninety three, you'd been through two world wars and a 668 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,759 great depression, and who knows what other hardships and that 669 00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:06,880 will age a body. And we actually had a really 670 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,400 good episode of the Old Time Radio Snack Wagon we 671 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:17,640 did with a couple of commentaries and stories by that 672 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,880 great storyteller John Nesbitt about how life had become far 673 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,960 more easy and convenient and healthy in the time between 674 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:32,039 when he'd been a boy back towards the turn of 675 00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:36,240 the century and the nineteen forties and it's been an 676 00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,720 even more dramatic turn since then. And you know people 677 00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:44,960 will say things like the your forties or the new thirties, 678 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,400 or your sixties or the new forties. Well, there had 679 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,440 to be an old thirties and an old forties, and 680 00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:56,759 I will say that whether fifty eight would be considered 681 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,960 elderly or not, I remember growing up in the eighties 682 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,200 and into the nineties that there were restaurants where the 683 00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:08,320 senior menu was something you got when you were fifty five, 684 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,519 and I actually figured out and told my dad how 685 00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:16,599 many years until he could get the senior discount. He 686 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,199 was not pleased at the prospect, but it was a 687 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,920 different time, and whether he was technically correct or not, 688 00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:29,840 even then, I think that it was something that could 689 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,039 have had some merit. Also on Spotify Mechanics sixty six Rights, 690 00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:38,760 once again, Joe Friday makes an arrest that any competent 691 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,000 defense attorney would have been able to get thrown out 692 00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:44,559 for an illegal search. If you have to clean the 693 00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:49,320 window to see inside the garage, it's not in plain sight, 694 00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:52,119 and we know they would never have lied about that 695 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,480 in court. Well, I appreciate the comment. The thing is, 696 00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:04,119 when it comes to questioning the legality of Friday's actions. 697 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,920 They're often based on modern interpretations of the case law. 698 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:16,519 The criminal case law in regards to criminal procedure, arrest, 699 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,960 due process, and the interpretation of the Fourth Amendment is 700 00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:27,079 something that has evolved over time, and we also have 701 00:35:27,199 --> 00:35:30,760 to keep in mind while the Dragnet episodes were released 702 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,840 in nineteen fifty one, the cases they were based on 703 00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:39,280 could have occurred many years prior at the time of 704 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,599 Dragnets in nineteen fifty one, the controlling case regarding the 705 00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:51,880 exclusion of illegally obtained evidence was the nineteen forty nine 706 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,639 case Wolf versus Colorado, in which they found the exclusionary rule, 707 00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:05,400 which they had applied to the federal government since nineteen fourteen, 708 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,840 was only adopted by seventeen states, thirty others had rejected it, 709 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,000 and that it was not a departure from the basic 710 00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:19,199 standards of due process to allow states to introduce illegally 711 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,519 obtained evidence in state trials. This would not be overturned 712 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:30,760 until nineteen sixty one, or ten years after this episode aired. 713 00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:35,480 So if this story happened in nineteen sixty one rather 714 00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:40,039 than nineteen fifty one or before, yeah, it would get 715 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:45,159 thrown out in state court, but it didn't now Dragnet 716 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:51,039 did acknowledge when laws changed, although not often in a 717 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:56,440 supportive manner. One of the last radio episodes of Dragnet, 718 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,400 The Big Ruling, has fried a non due halp with 719 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:03,880 evidence being thrown out as a result of a new 720 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:09,440 ruling he hadn't kept up on, and subsequent Dragnet seasons 721 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,719 when the series returned in the nineteen sixties, showed how 722 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:19,599 criminals were able to take advantage of loopholes. In the 723 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,440 nineteen sixty six Dragnet TV movie, many viewers resonated and 724 00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:29,360 still resonate with his quirk in the law speed. Yet 725 00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:33,440 the Dragnet universe, I guess, if you want to call it, 726 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,480 could also be a bit more balanced in terms of 727 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:40,639 what is the duty of the policeman. It is the 728 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,880 duty to follow the law as it exists. One of 729 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,079 my favorite episodes of Adam twelve was called The Dinosaur, 730 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,960 and it is about a police officer who had been 731 00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:57,960 amazing and heroic and had actually been someone that the 732 00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:02,639 hero of Adam twelve Malloy looked up to, but he 733 00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:05,119 had been injured in a lone of duty and he 734 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,320 spent eight years out of the force and came back. 735 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,119 But when he came back, he was stuck in the 736 00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:19,119 old ways he had been doing things, and as a result, 737 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,960 criminals got led off and a woman nearly died as 738 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,599 a result. And at this point molloy had kind of 739 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:36,239 emerged in more of a leadership role, not a sergeant left. 740 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,360 But he just told the guy to pack it in. 741 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,000 He said, people need to grow with change, and you 742 00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:48,480 didn't have that chance. It illustrated the degree to which 743 00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:53,920 police procedures and the expectations of them in their jobs 744 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,320 had changed over the few years as a result of 745 00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:02,559 various court rules, and I guess, as an aside, that 746 00:39:02,679 --> 00:39:09,039 also might be one reason why the nineteen fifties Dragnet 747 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,719 kind of disappeared from circulation. One of the appeals of 748 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,800 Dragnet was that it showed the police and action how 749 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,039 they worked, but when how they worked had change radically. 750 00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,880 You also, of course, did have the appeal of the 751 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,840 color episodes, but it made sense, probably to stop syndicating 752 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,559 the show. It is fair to question whether an arrest 753 00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:36,840 today would have been allowed, or whether the evidence would 754 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,239 be thrown out today or even a few years after 755 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,719 the fact, but the fact is that it probably would 756 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,840 not have been thrown out in nineteen fifty one because 757 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,960 the exclusionary rule was not operative in most states in 758 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,599 the Union. Now it's time to think our Patreon supporter 759 00:39:57,679 --> 00:39:58,920 of the day, and I want to go ahead and 760 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,960 thank Robert Patreon on supporter since August twenty sixteen, currently 761 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,079 supporting the podcast at the Detective Sergeant level of seven 762 00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:09,000 dollars and fourteen cents or more per month. Thanks so 763 00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:11,239 much for your support, Robert, and that will do it 764 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,159 for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us 765 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,880 using your favorite podcast software. And if you're enjoying the 766 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,760 podcast on YouTube, be sure to lock the video, subscribe 767 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,320 to the channel, and mark the notification bell. Join us 768 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,760 back here next Thursday for another episode of Dragnant, and 769 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,480 next Monday, be sure and listen for Danger with Granger. 770 00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:42,320 But join us back here tomorrow for yours truly, Johnny Dollarware. 771 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,519 Speaker 12: I take it you and your husband haven't been too 772 00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:48,679 happy together recently. We haven't. 773 00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 11: That's why I'm not sitting around moping and moaning and 774 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,519 weeping over his passion. 775 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:54,599 Speaker 12: And you have no idea what might have happened to us? 776 00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:00,599 Speaker 11: No, that is yes, well that is unless he got 777 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:02,960 drowned or something like that on one of his silly 778 00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:06,480 fishing expeditions. So unless someone found out how much money 779 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,000 he was playing and killed him for that. 780 00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 12: He took a great deal of money with him, yes, 781 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:10,559 he always did. 782 00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 11: How much, missus Halford, He never told me, but it 783 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,079 was thousands of dollars and may be sure of that. 784 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 12: He left here in Sebruary. 785 00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:20,039 Speaker 11: Yes, the weather was too cold in Florida, too cold 786 00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:22,360 all along the Atlantic postly so that's what he said 787 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,079 in his regular weekly postpod. So he tried up in Alabamondon, Tennessee, 788 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,880 and then Kentucky and then have a nosewhere. Then in 789 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,199 April he's come back here. How long he was here, 790 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:33,920 I don't know. I was in Fort Wayne. 791 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 12: For a few days. Then how do you know he 792 00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:37,159 was here at all? 793 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,199 Speaker 11: They moved one of the kids in the living room 794 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,159 to get to the floor safe to get some more 795 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,800 money to waste on fishing. 796 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 12: Well, how do you know he was going fishing again? 797 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,079 Speaker 11: Because of the nod he left and the big freezer 798 00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:50,159 with the fish he brought back to put into it. 799 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,079 Speaker 12: Oh, may I see that note? I don't know. 800 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 11: Why not it's the making prisons here done in Fort 801 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:57,840 Wayne and willing. 802 00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 12: To saw it to you. And you're sure your husband 803 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,480 left no clue what's the way he was going. 804 00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 11: I'm very sure, mister Dallas, my husband is dead. 805 00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:11,039 Speaker 12: The word I would have heard from it. 806 00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 11: You're doing nothing but wasting your time here, my time. 807 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,880 I told everything I knowed police over and over again. 808 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,199 If you think you can accomplish more than they have, 809 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,360 why don't you go down there and talk with the tenant. 810 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,559 Speaker 1: BAS hope you'll be with us then in the meantime, 811 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,400 send your comments to Box thirteen at Great Detectives, lot It, 812 00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:34,920 follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and check us 813 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:41,719 out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com slash Great Detectives from Boise, Idaho. 814 00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:45,039 This is your host, Adam Graham. Sign and off.