WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.359 That crypto is you know, someone tweeting this one ninety 2 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:07.080 percent Republicans like, that's just false, It's not true. Actually, 3 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:09.439 if you look at who's holding crypto, it is pretty 4 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.240 evenly split across all independence, Democrats and Republicans. 5 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:13.480 Right. 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.879 I think there are no my this is a hypothesis, 7 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:19.679 but I believe it because it seems very true there 8 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:23.440 are going to be more independent crypto voters than either side. 9 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:24.800 I actually think. 10 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.359 This content is brought to you by Uphold, which is 11 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:36.280 one of the top crypto platforms out there, which allows 12 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:39.000 you to easily buy and sell trade bitcoin and the 13 00:00:39.079 --> 00:00:42.240 top all coins in the market. Uphold lists two hundred 14 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.679 and sixty plus cryptocurrencies. 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It's twenty four to seven instant trading, 26 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:26.519 it's trustless. So this is a great feature that can 27 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:28.640 give you peace of mind where you don't have to 28 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:31.920 worry about if you lose your private keys and much 29 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:34.840 more so. If you'd like to learn more about Uphold, 30 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:37.920 please visit the link in the description. Welcome into the 31 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:40.760 Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and with 32 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.480 me today's Sheila Warren, who's the CEO of the Crypto 33 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:46.640 Council for Innovation. Sheila. 34 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:49.359 Great to see you, hey, Tony, so good to be back. 35 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.040 Good to see you. 36 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:53.560 Too, Sheila. I have so many questions for you because 37 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.920 there's been an influx of updates around crypto and politics. 38 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.159 It's exciting, it's a bit frustrating. I have multiple feelings, 39 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:06.359 mixed feelings about this. Let's start the way, let's set 40 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:09.439 the table. What are your thoughts on how crypto has 41 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:13.199 been impacting politics and you have Republicans making moves, Democrats 42 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:13.840 and so forth. 43 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.800 Well, I don't think there's any question that seemingly out 44 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:22.319 of nowhere, crypto and the crypto industry have become crucially 45 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:26.439 important in this election, particularly at the presidential and the 46 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:30.560 presidential ticket, but even down ballot with Senate races and 47 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:36.439 House races, and so, you know, I think that that 48 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:41.159 reflects the breadth and depth of crypto engagement across the 49 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:45.039 American population. One in five Americans, one in five voting 50 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.439 Americans who more specifically actually do hold crypto, So on 51 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:51.639 some levels not surprising, but I do think the sort 52 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:55.479 of rapid ascension of the topic is very surprising to 53 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:56.680 a lot of people, for sure. 54 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.599 Do you think that? And I've been thinking a lot 55 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:02.560 about this. By the way, you know, the crypto industry 56 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:06.280 raised over two hundred million dollars via fair Shake the 57 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.719 super pack, and data came out yesterday that it's almost 58 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.319 half of the spend that's taking place in the election 59 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:15.840 this election cycle so far. But then I think, would 60 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.800 the industry have done this if there wasn't they count 61 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:22.719 on the other side of the spectrum, Elizabeth Warren and 62 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:26.479 the anti crypto army coming against the industry so strongly 63 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.759 and unlawfully in certain ways that we almost had to 64 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:30.120 do this. 65 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:33.120 Yeah, well, so, first of all, correct me on this 66 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:34.680 if I'm wrong, but I think the two hundred millions 67 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.400 spread across a number of different entities. But regardless, I 68 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.599 think it's a massive amount of money, and I think 69 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:43.319 it's a chicken and egg question, right, I mean, like, 70 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.479 was Crypto get engaged at this level before they really 71 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:52.719 were vilified by a small portion of Congress? You know, 72 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.199 maybe maybe not. I mean, but there's no question that 73 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:58.919 that was a catalyst for this engagement and the sense 74 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:01.639 that a lot lives and dies on who is in 75 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:05.479 these offices. It does matter. It matters to not just business, 76 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:08.319 I would argue even more importantly, it matters to consumers. 77 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.080 It matters to those who seek to use products and services. 78 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.199 And to me, look, I think we should frame this 79 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.040 up in the following way, and this is how I 80 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.120 talk about it, which is Crypto's not going anywhere. There 81 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:22.160 was a moment I think in twenty two which understandably 82 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.319 the United States, there was this sense, you know, Tara 83 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:29.560 Luna FTX like drama after drama, right, there was this sense, oh, 84 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.120 if we ignore that, it will go away. And all 85 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:34.480 those of us in industry knew that was ridiculous. But 86 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:36.439 if you were looking at this as a third party, 87 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.839 that's a we have to acknowledge there's some credibility to that. 88 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:40.279 We weren't. 89 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.240 It wasn't the best look. Okay, in twenty two that's 90 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.279 all gone. Nobody in their right mind is saying that 91 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:48.480 right now, and if they do, say that's very easy 92 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.439 to dismiss. Crypto has won in that sense. The question 93 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.519 on the table, in my opinion, is simply where where 94 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:58.680 is it going to be hq't and built? Is it 95 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.319 in the United States or is it not United States? 96 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.120 Everywhere else is running. We know this, right, You've had 97 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:07.839 rules and regulations that specify and have clarity everywhere else 98 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:10.439 in the world for a long time now, but not 99 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.319 here in that state. So that's the question where is 100 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:15.920 it going to thrive, not whether it's going to thrive, 101 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:19.199 And that to me is in part of political question. 102 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:24.839 And I'll use some anecdotal evidence. I have family members 103 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:28.399 and friends, some are Democrats, some are Republicans. When it 104 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.199 comes to Crypto, they don't think about it politically. They 105 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.600 don't think about it as oh, I like big ones, 106 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.360 and that means I'm supporting Republicans or Democrats or whatever 107 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.319 it is they just sevewed as a NASA class, some 108 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.279 of them traded, some of them using that's right. But 109 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.120 unfortunately here in the United States, it's become this political 110 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.720 issue and we're almost like forced to take sides. But 111 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:55.279 you know, given the different events that have been taking place, 112 00:05:55.399 --> 00:06:00.439 Rocanna's roundtable, the Crypto for Harris town hall last week, 113 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:03.720 do you see us making progress from your point of 114 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:06.839 view that this can be a non partisan issue. 115 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:11.079 I think there's definite progress being made for sure. I mean, 116 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:14.800 is one party name of the Republicans ahead of the Democrats, 117 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:17.399 And if you want to speak really broadly, yes, as 118 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.000 if you look at that as if you look at 119 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:23.160 them as monolithic entities. Yes, on an individual basis, I 120 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:25.759 will tell you there have been This is not new. 121 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.959 There have been plenty of Democrats who are just as 122 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:32.240 on side as Republicans, and that's been the case for 123 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.319 a couple of years now. So the idea that there's 124 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:37.399 I think we be very careful and I think there's 125 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.199 this tendency, especially in social media places like that, that 126 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:42.839 allowed Nuance to talk about this as if it's a 127 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:43.959 party level issue. 128 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:44.279 Now. 129 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.879 To be fair, Republican party platform talks about this which 130 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:50.439 implies that if you vote the party platform, you'll be 131 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.319 on side with that. That is not true Democratic party platform. 132 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:55.720 I suppose you could make that argument. But at the 133 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.399 end of the day, we have a purple Congress, whether 134 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.560 people like it or not. We have a purple country, 135 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:01.439 whither people like. 136 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:01.720 It or not. 137 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.160 And so my view is we should have purple crypto. 138 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:06.879 And if you look at kind of the polling numbers, 139 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:09.959 there's this sense, I think, especially in places like x 140 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.399 or wherever that crypto is. You know, as someone tweeted 141 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:16.439 this point, ninety percent Republicans like, that's just false, it's 142 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:19.399 not true. Actually, if you look at who's holding crypto, 143 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:24.120 it is pretty evenly split across all independence, Democrats and Republicans, right, 144 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:27.480 I think there are not my this is a hypothesis, 145 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.319 but I believe it because it seems very true. There 146 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:34.079 are going to be more independent crypto voters than either side, 147 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:37.240 I actually think, because that's vary in line with the 148 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.560 philosophy that underlies crypto. It is a general matter, right, 149 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:44.920 and those independents are obviously disproportionately going to be swing 150 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.079 voters to a large extent. Right, So the question becomes 151 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:53.040 there's an outsized power that the crypto voting block, if 152 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:54.399 you want to call it, that, the sort of single 153 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:57.079 issue crypto kind of person is going to have an election. 154 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:00.399 That's this razor thin than in other kinds of text. 155 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.319 But the idea that this is strictly for Republicans, that 156 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:06.959 there are no that's just all complete nonsense. Now you 157 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.000 make a really good point, which is we are in 158 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.319 a very partisan moment. How we got here? You asked 159 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:14.560 some good questions. I don't know. It's chicken and egg, right, 160 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:16.600 who knows. But the point is we are in a 161 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:22.480 hyper political moment where a neutral, non partisan technology, let's 162 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.120 be real, it's a technology. Okay, it's not there's a 163 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:29.000 political bias built into this thing. It's a neutral technology 164 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.840 has become hyper politicized. And my goal, and I think 165 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:34.639 this should be the goal of everybody who cares about 166 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:37.279 the industry, is to take that off the table, to 167 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:42.159 make being against crypto as silly as being against you know, 168 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:46.879 microwaves or whatever. It just makes no sense. So we 169 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:49.919 have to get to that place. Otherwise we're subject to 170 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:53.720 the vagaries of every election cycle every two years. Congress 171 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.360 can turn over every two years. So what's going to happen. 172 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.279 We're going to make progress, We're going to beat it back, 173 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:00.559 We're never going to get there. It has to be 174 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:04.320 the case that we're almost politically agnostic. No matter who 175 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:07.480 wins in an election, Crypto is going to be fine. 176 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:07.639 Now. 177 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.480 Again, as I noted, I want to start with saying 178 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:14.559 that is unequivocally true because of it's not just America. 179 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:17.080 It's a whole, big, giant world out there. Whether it 180 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.320 is fine in the United States is the question on 181 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:23.039 the table. And I do think some people lose sight 182 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:26.039 of that and they get so emotional about the United States, 183 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.320 as if we're going to determine the trajectory of this 184 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.960 entire industry and technology. I am a global person. I've 185 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.559 lived all over the world. To me, that's a ridiculously 186 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:37.919 short sighted view. But that's where the fight is located 187 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.600 right now, because it is not obvious what's going to 188 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:42.639 happen here in the United States. 189 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.080 Those are some great points that I've been echoing, the 190 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.480 same thing, that this is not a United States base 191 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:52.320 industry or asset class. It's global, and that we should 192 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:55.159 take get crypto off the table from the election. It 193 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.840 shouldn't be there. There's other issues we can argue about 194 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:00.679 and you know, vote about it, but it should not 195 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:02.639 be crypto. Come on, this is crazy. 196 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:05.039 And look, I want to also add in, I have 197 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.720 a lot of empathy for people that have really, I 198 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.519 mean you said this early, have been vilified, right. They've 199 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:13.919 been vilified by Gary Gensler, by Elizabeth Warren. They've been 200 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:16.639 vilified by these people and they're mad about it. And 201 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.519 I really understand that. But unfortunately, politics cannot be a 202 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:22.919 revenge game. It cannot be a revenge game, not if 203 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:24.919 you want to win. If you want to win, you 204 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:27.799 have to be really strategic and thinking the longer term. 205 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.960 When you look at you look at the banks, you 206 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.480 look at big tech, you look at pharma, you look 207 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.799 at agriculture, you look at unions, you look at everybody. 208 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.519 They are very thoughtful about what levers they pull, where 209 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:42.279 they put their alliances, where they put their funding, you know, 210 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:45.440 et cetera. And it's not a good look for the 211 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:48.840 industry to be over aligned with one party over another. 212 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.080 You have to be in a place where you're giving 213 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.279 credit where credit's due. You're you're a truth teller, right, 214 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.559 You're saying, these are folks who've been on side these 215 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.320 are ones you haven't. But the work, the hard work, 216 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:04.960 is to get to a place where everyone's educated, everyone understands, 217 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.320 everyone is you know, is on side, and everyone gets 218 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:11.360 why this is a critical issue for American economic and 219 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.759 national security and for American consumers. And you can't do 220 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.879 that if you're thinking about this as a revenge move. 221 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.919 Yeah. Absolutely. Now, we saw some great initiatives some Democrats 222 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.240 in trying to help folks who on their side of 223 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:30.080 the isle to better understand its technology. And we definitely 224 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.320 saw a bunch of them side with Republicans to pass 225 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:35.639 the FIT twenty one bill out of the House to 226 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.240 repeal saw one to one in the House and Senate 227 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:41.480 and Chuck Schumer on the crypto for Harris town hall 228 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.279 live stream last week that he's committed to getting crypto 229 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.279 regulations through. Now, you were on that live stream. Tell 230 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:50.200 us about your take on that movement and what were 231 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:51.120 some of the takeaways. 232 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.720 Yeah, you know, I was a speaker at that movement. 233 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.480 I think you could argue a had a bit of 234 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:01.039 a segment where, you know, Chuck Schumer, Senator Schumer was 235 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:04.960 gracious enough to acknowledge the engagement there with me and 236 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:08.799 then Senator stabanaw came on, Wiley Nickel, Congressman Nicol came on, 237 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:12.639 Senator Jillibrand came on, these are people who really do 238 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:16.360 understand this technology and have since twenty two and have 239 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.080 put a lot of effort into understanding it and understanding 240 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:22.320 challenges and problems and opportunities and all of that thing. 241 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:25.159 But they take it seriously. And I think that was 242 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:28.240 I think the message. And so for me, you know, 243 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.720 I felt, I felt I agreed to speak at it 244 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.279 early on because frankly, I was a bit tired of 245 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:36.000 the rhetorical postures some of the industry as somebody who 246 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.159 is who thinks purple, who funds purple, who does a 247 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.519 lot of purple things. It was very important to me 248 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:45.120 to kind of calibrate that. And I also, frankly wanted 249 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.679 to give some credit to some of the unsung of 250 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:52.000 folks who had taken the time to really understand this technology, 251 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:55.960 who are democrats who have new Democrats. So I think 252 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.840 that look coming off of Trump at Bitcoin Nashville, whereas 253 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.000 I've said in many places, that was like an unbelievably 254 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:05.480 it was a phenomenal wish list of everything we want right. 255 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:07.919 It was like boom boom boom boom, boom boom. That's amazing, 256 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.440 and the goal should be to get the other presidential 257 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.039 candidate to be similarly like minded, maybe slightly different nuanced, 258 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.279 because the language you use as a Republican are Democratic 259 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:21.519 a little different, but the concepts really should be the same. 260 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.399 And I think that for me, the Crypto for Harris 261 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.080 town hall event was a smashing success from the standpoint 262 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.720 of demonstrating that up and down the ticket on the 263 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:37.000 Democratic side, there is support for crypto. There's no bucking 264 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.000 the party trend or none of that. Like I mean, 265 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.200 I don't think it gets stronger than the majority leader 266 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:44.039 at current order of the Senate, Chuck Schumer's in office 267 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:48.159 for a really long time, extraordinarily thoughtful and powerful person 268 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:51.919 in Congress, coming out as on fire as he did 269 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.720 talking about how crucial this is, so in my mind, 270 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:57.279 you know, I don't know what the goals of the 271 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:59.519 organizers were. I can't really speak to that, Like that's 272 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:02.600 a different question. But for me, that was the point 273 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:07.559 to say, this already has purplish tone, and the job 274 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:09.879 really needs to be to drive into that so that 275 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.080 no matter what the outcome of the congressional elections are 276 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:17.080 or the presidential we are well situated as an industry, 277 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:21.960 we're well situated as a consumer base, you know, as innovators, 278 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:25.080 so that we don't have to immediately assume that if 279 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.879 one side wins, we all have to leave the country, right, 280 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:30.120 That is not and that's the work. And look, I 281 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.480 get a lot of crap for that, and that's okay. 282 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:34.720 People to understand the job. They just don't get it. 283 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:37.639 And it's not my problem, but they're wrong, you know, 284 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.559 because this has to be the work. 285 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:40.159 It has to be right. 286 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:41.559 It's hard work. It's hard work. 287 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.639 Oh yeah, I know, like you mentioned earlier, like in 288 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.960 a very hyper politicized UH era, right. 289 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:50.000 Where it's not as crypto. 290 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.360 Let's be there, Yeah, talk about the what the other 291 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.759 person is doing. You get attacked, like even if you're 292 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.960 not endorsing or are you're just talking, Why are you 293 00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.000 talking about them? 294 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:01.639 That's right? Why are you giving them any airtime? 295 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:01.919 You know? 296 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:03.200 Why are you where are you helping? 297 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:04.080 Why are you doing that? 298 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.039 It's like that's not as you know, as I've said, 299 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.639 as I've talked to you about, like I have no 300 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.240 problem giving Trump credit for all those strides and that 301 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.000 was a dramatic from where he was during his presidency, 302 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.279 which was pretty anti crypto and this is the anti 303 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.200 bitcoin to being on stage at Bitcoin Nashville. That's amazing, 304 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.879 that's a huge success. Why wouldn't we want that success everywhere? 305 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.200 You know? So? And frankly, because Trump is so onside 306 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.120 from this onside, that's not the hard work, that's the 307 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:35.559 easier work. This is the hard right, I'm saying. 308 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:35.679 So. 309 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.039 But again, some people I think still think in this 310 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:42.200 revenge mode. And you know that I don't have that luxury. 311 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:43.919 I don't get to do that's not the job, and 312 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:45.879 that's not I don't think it's productive. And I again, 313 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.399 I have a lot of empathy for it. You know, 314 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:53.120 I personally affected by that. But nevertheless, you got to 315 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.480 keep on pushing because at the end of the day, 316 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.799 as much as this money is going where it's going, 317 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:02.279 like American voters to side elections, they just do. And 318 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.200 I go back all the time at this moment in 319 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:07.159 twenty two October ish, we were sitting in a room's 320 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.120 like forty or fifty crypto policy people and someone said, well, 321 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.799 you know, when when the Congress goes completely red, then blah, 322 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:16.240 blah blah blah. And I put my hand up and 323 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.679 I was like, well, why do we assume Congress is 324 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:20.320 going to go both houses are going to go red? 325 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:23.320 Whatever I mean, people like the pitying looks I got, like, oh, 326 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.120 you poor child. Like of course, I was like, I 327 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:28.480 don't assume anything until it's done. I don't assume anything 328 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.519 until it's done. I was right, Thank goodness, we'd been 329 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.879 putting in that effort with Democrats because you had a 330 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:38.120 democratically led Senate, right, like, thank goodness, we've been kind 331 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:40.799 of like trying to get there so we could we 332 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:45.440 could at least get some constructive conversations moving and going 333 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.000 during that time. So, like I say, I think American 334 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.879 voter side elections, we know it's going to be razor 335 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:56.000 thin margins in many crucial races, including the presidential I 336 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.200 would not have said that under Biden, quite frankly, but 337 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:00.480 with a Harris Trump matchup, it's going to be razor 338 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:05.359 thin and we don't know. So assuming or crossing fingers 339 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.440 or blithely wishing into existence one outcome and not doing 340 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.519 anything to prepare for the other outcome is silly, and 341 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.599 it is short sighted, and it is also not my job. 342 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.519 So here we are now. 343 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.920 There was another initiative I believe was Roan Congressman Rokana 344 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.039 led a round table for I was thinking, you were there, 345 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:30.160 Mark Cuban, folks in the industry and so forth, tell 346 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:30.720 us about that. 347 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.200 Yeah, so there were when there were two round tables 348 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.279 when it was in person. This was with a woman 349 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.359 named Anita Dunn who was a senior Biden advisor. And this, 350 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.680 to be clear, it was still I think, oh my gosh, 351 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.519 I'm blinking on I think that was still when Biden 352 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:46.559 was the candidate. I believe that is correct. 353 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:47.799 Yeah, but I. 354 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.400 Think it's moving so fast, like I'm pretty sure that's 355 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.079 the case. I recall going into it that was the discussion, right, 356 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.000 and it really was. I thought it was a phenomenal session. 357 00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.559 I was privileged to be in the room. It's gotten 358 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.319 a lot of I'm not saying a thing that has 359 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.440 ever been reported, but it really was an opportunity for 360 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.599 a lot of builders to talk to and needed done directly. 361 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.119 One of the most senior advisors to the Biden White 362 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:13.519 House in the Biden White House about how Crypto has 363 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.319 been treated and under that administration. At the end of 364 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.079 the day. You've got to put the responsibility where it lies. Right, 365 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.359 we can all look at Gary Gensler as the architect 366 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:24.160 of it. At the end of the day, that Biden's boss, right, 367 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.440 So that's kind of how that works, and so I think, 368 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:29.720 what kind of his boss? It's more nuanced, but he 369 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:31.400 got he's the reason he's in the role, right, So 370 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.480 I think you look at it that way, and I 371 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:36.279 think it was eye opening. I really think that hearing 372 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.519 that those personal narratives from people who have really tried 373 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.240 to and these are everybody in that room with somebody 374 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:45.799 you know, who tried to be compliant, who wanted to 375 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.640 build in America, who wanted to build, who wants to 376 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.480 be regulated, who wants to be legitimate, all of those things, right. 377 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:53.640 There was not a single exception to that in that room. 378 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:58.160 It's a very earnest group. And hearing the frustration firsthand, 379 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.000 I think was really powerful. And so tons of credit 380 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:05.319 to Congressman Rocanna, you know, his team, for pulling that together, 381 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:10.480 to Anita Done, for listening, for really engaging I think 382 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.400 with that group. Now, of course, then you had the 383 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.119 flip right where now you've got a new campaign, a 384 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:15.880 new candidate, and. 385 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:16.279 All of that. 386 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.559 So there was another round table that happened that was 387 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.119 a zoom call, wasn't in person, that was really with 388 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.519 different people, not with any ita done, but was still 389 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.880 at people in the Biden administration, actually not with Harris 390 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:31.160 campaign people because there weren't really anyet I suppose, but 391 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.599 people there who are not necessarily going to be part 392 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.119 of the Harris campaign. And there I think it was 393 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.200 a bit of a different tone and it's got reported 394 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.599 as well, and just this question about you know, what 395 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:44.119 have you done? What is there to show for all 396 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.200 of this? Like we've been coming in for so long, 397 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:48.880 We've said all these things, where's the outcome? 398 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:49.400 Where is it? 399 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:53.359 So, like I say, I think all of that again 400 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.599 is really more about Biden than about Harris. And it's 401 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.319