WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:08.320 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. 2 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:10.480 These guys are your favorites. 3 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:16.199 So like Shay, subscribe and rade it five star s me. 4 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:20.440 Righteous one Yesterday. 5 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:27.280 And listening watching always keep its watching. And now you're 6 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:32.079 hosts Cliff Perrickman and James Bubo Fay. Good morning to you, Bobo. 7 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:32.759 How you doing, sir? 8 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:35.679 Pretty good? Pretty good? Long time you'll see me? 9 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:38.479 Yeah, well, I spend days now actually putting my eyes 10 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.640 on you. Just a few days ago, yeah, and what 11 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.280 a sight to behold. Last time I saw you is 12 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:45.960 one in the morning over on the east side of 13 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.479 Mountain Hood and I was a driving away. I saw 14 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.399 you in my rearview mirror. What has happened since then? 15 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:56.119 Nothing? Absolutely nothing. I spent the next to you and 16 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.920 I I reved the next day just because I thought 17 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:03.280 the place was awesome. But like some people hiked by me, 18 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:05.359 I didn't know there was a trail right by there. 19 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:06.840 Yeah, yeah, that bad. 20 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:09.200 That Mountain Bike trail is a walking trail as well, 21 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.040 and in fact that the trailhead is new. As I 22 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:13.560 pointed out to and we were there, I had not 23 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:14.760 seen that cause I hadn't been up there in the 24 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:15.560 last year or two. 25 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:16.239 That's way. 26 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:18.519 It seems that there's a new trailhead there and all 27 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:21.239 sorts of trails come together in that specific spot. 28 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:24.159 Yeah. But I mean like when we were camping, there's 29 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:26.200 there's a trail like only like less than one hundred 30 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.640 feet away. Yeah. Yeah, I was taking a leak and 31 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:31.560 I was and then all of a sudden there's two 32 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:34.799 women and a guy like walking up and like I'm 33 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.040 just sitting there. Oh my, Like I was like, sorry, 34 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:38.840 didn't know there's a trail there, you know whatever, and 35 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:41.480 they were cool. They didn't say anything. 36 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.879 That's the way it always goes, you know, as soon 37 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:45.599 as you dropped the drawer, somebody walks by. 38 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:48.680 Yeah, And I was like, like, of all the timing, 39 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:51.400 you know, it's just like there. Yeah. I got down 40 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:54.680 thirty six that night, and then the next time was 41 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:56.359 about the saying I went. I went down for the 42 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:58.079 south that I was going to go to that one 43 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:01.480 lake we were talking about, huh. I started looking at 44 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.519 the other I started looking at like databases and stuff 45 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.280 and places I was always wanting to go. I was like, well, 46 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.599 I got a couple of nights still, so I went 47 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.919 down Southomore and then I went I went down to 48 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.599 this one spot for a night and there was totally nothing, 49 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.400 nothing at all. Yeah, after talking to Sarah, you know, 50 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.479 about her spot that I just had to go down there, 51 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.360 and I knew a spot that wasn't real close to 52 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:27.240 her because I mean, she is a pretty long hike 53 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.000 to where her her en counter happened. It was like, 54 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:31.039 you know, it takes me like three days to hike 55 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.840 in there. So I just went through a spot on 56 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.560 I could camp buy there and it was it was 57 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.879 beautiful night, like you know, moon and all that, but again, 58 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:40.759 it was freezing, dude. It was like I think it 59 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:42.520 was right around the seane. It was like thirty five 60 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:43.639 thirty six at night. 61 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:44.080 I was not. 62 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:44.639 I wasn't. 63 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:46.759 I mean I was prepared pretty good for cold weather, 64 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:49.520 but I didn't have my furry hat or a Deanie 65 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:52.159 or nothing. So that was a little chilly. But I 66 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:53.879 mean it was just kind of you know, for July, 67 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.080 that's kind of you know, pretty extreme cold. 68 00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:58.319 Yeah, I did, you know there's no fire all the 69 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:00.479 fire restriction is going on right now, which is very 70 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:03.199 reasonable of course, means you can't warm up by a fire, 71 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:04.120 and that kind of sucks. 72 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:06.240 Yeah, for sure. 73 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:08.319 Yeah, I would change everything if you can have like 74 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:10.439 a little fire and keep yourself warm, but got to 75 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:12.560 follow the rules and not in danger everybody and all 76 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.159 the wildlife and stuff. Just because you're a little cold. 77 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.439 I'll still do fires because it just rained recently, Like 78 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:19.919 I went to my I would have done a fire 79 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.240 when I was with you that first night, you know, 80 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.439 just because everything was so wet and green. I generally 81 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:27.479 like totally go with those fire backs, like if there's 82 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.199 like any kind of fire danger, very aware. I used 83 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:32.080 to mean I used to fight forest fire, so. 84 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:34.280 It's hard to love forest fires. 85 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:34.400 You know. 86 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:36.960 I'd like to think I'm a lover, not a fighter firefire. 87 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:38.879 I'm a lover, not a firefighter. 88 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.240 Oh you are a fire lever, just just the properly controlled, 89 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:44.000 maintained one. 90 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:45.879 Absolutely absolutely. 91 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:46.199 You know. 92 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.960 It is in my Hominin heritage that I love fires. Yeah, 93 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:51.759 it's interesting when you're sitting around a fire and you 94 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:53.800 just have to stare into it. You realize, man, we've 95 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.439 been doing this for three or four hundred thousand years, 96 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.639 and we're just epigenetically programmed to love that. 97 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:04.199 Caveman TV absolutely or hippie TV. 98 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.280 Yeah, yeah, well cool, it looks like we have a 99 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:11.319 topical episode in front of us right now. A number 100 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.919 of topics have been sent in by both you and me, 101 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:17.079 and I'm not sure if Matt contributed anything or not. Prude, 102 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:18.519 did you throw anything in the bin on this one 103 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:21.160 or is it just us I grabbed something from listeners. 104 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.399 We had a few that were submitted by regular listeners. 105 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:25.120 Oh cool, cool, very good. 106 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:26.800 I'm glad to hear their participating as well. 107 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:29.800 I just opened my eyes, just open to my mail 108 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.480 just now to look at what Pruit sent us, and 109 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.439 I got a message from Paul Cropper about them recovering 110 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:40.680 DNA from human mitochondria and nuclear DNA unaccompanied by final 111 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.439 DNA from the pigmented calcite crust at a scirrel cave 112 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:45.199 in Portugal. 113 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.600 Really, yeah, we're the where the where they painted on 114 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:52.959 the walls. There's these their fingers a lot, So there's 115 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:57.319 there's a human DNA that's not there's there's no contamination 116 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:00.079 for men the animals, so it's like really clean, and 117 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:02.920 I guess they're they're excited about the getting results. 118 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:05.639 Yeah, I don't think that's one of our articles right now, 119 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:07.199 but I did see that article and I thought it 120 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.920 was fascinating that because it makes sense, you know, because 121 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.160 you know, you picture those the cave paintings where like 122 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:15.360 there's a hand and somebody like put a bunch of 123 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.360 paint in their mouth and blew it over their hands. 124 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:19.680 So it's just the hand is like the negative spot 125 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:20.959 where there is no paint. 126 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:22.959 On the wall. We've all seen that, like they did. 127 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:25.839 Yeah, yeah, they generally they put they put paint in 128 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:27.360 their mouth or some sort of pigment in their mouth 129 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:29.279 and use a straw or something and blow it over that. 130 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:31.680 That's how they do that. And of course that would 131 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.560 have saliva in it, which is a wonderful source to DNA. 132 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.199 It's just chock full of DNA, so that that was 133 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.360 a very interesting article that I read. And of course 134 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.639 there's also probably skin cells sloughing off and all that 135 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:44.959 sort of stuff. But I think the DNA in the 136 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.040 saliva is what my brief free to the article seem 137 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:49.360 to be what they were going after, and it makes 138 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:52.399 perfect sense. Of course, it would be fascinating study. And 139 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.439 of course once you get that genome all sequenced out, 140 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.680 you can start piecing together you know, who's related to 141 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:01.360 that person today, which is kind of cool and I 142 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:04.480 bet many, many, many, many many of us are, which 143 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.160 would be really really cool to learn about. 144 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:07.120 You know. 145 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.120 Also not in our article. I did see yesterday that 146 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:13.040 they're starting to talk publicly about the DNA studies that 147 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.240 they're doing over his study Sasquatch that Bart is sponsoring 148 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:19.480 to some degree with Haskell Heart. I thought that was 149 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.199 pretty cool. I saw that publicly announced. He has or 150 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:23.920 at least start talking about it online, so I guess 151 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:26.079 not online. I didn't go to like Facebook or anything, 152 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:27.879 but I saw it on one of the other ones, 153 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:28.879 like Twitter or whatever it is. 154 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:29.199 You know. 155 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.759 I saw them talking about that, and I thought, that's 156 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.480 fantastic that there's more than one e DNA study going 157 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:39.000 on at the same time. You know, so I'm helping 158 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.759 North Carolina State University because they have a team of academics. 159 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.680 Bart's funding this. Saying that they're testing water sources, I 160 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:46.759 guess with Haskell Heart, I know he's been doing it 161 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:49.399 for a number of years. I talked to Haskell about 162 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.480 maybe two years ago or more about his efforts doing that. 163 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:54.680 Talked about maybe getting some water samples out of the 164 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.319 bowl run nearby me. We haven't done that yet, but 165 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:59.399 imagine we'll probably do that at some point. He did 166 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:01.759 reach out again in another like maybe three weeks ago 167 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.040 or something to me about that. Yeah, so maybe we 168 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.199 can get something together there. But yeah, the more studies 169 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.800 the better, is my thought. The more people do an 170 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:13.040 actual real work, the better. Of course, that doesn't remove 171 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:17.120 the obstacles, which was one of my first thoughts, of course, 172 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.600 and it's one of my first thoughts with the soil 173 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.800 sample sampling study that we're doing, or even the hair 174 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.519 for that matter. And I know Derby. I've talked to 175 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.000 Derby at length about this. It's like, well, how do 176 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.519 you identify an unknown you know, I guess that's problematic. 177 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:32.759 You know, it sounds problematic, like how do you know 178 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:34.519 what you're looking at? If you if you're looking at 179 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.279 something you've never seen, then I guess I talked to 180 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:39.319 Derby a little bit about it. It's like the best 181 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:41.800 way or a good way to do it is get 182 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.079 multiple samples that I'll match each other on the species 183 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.680 level at least, and then to move on from there 184 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.399 and then identify what you have. But I guess they'll 185 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.279 probably be doing the same thing over there with Haskell's 186 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:55.560 study as well, So it's just if they do get 187 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.000 a hit, But aren't they using commercial labs? See, that 188 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.920 would be the problematic part of that study for me, 189 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.560 I think is that commercial labs generally speaking, don't go 190 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.680 to the depth necessary to differentiate on a species level 191 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.399 when two things are so closely related. But I don't know, 192 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:12.879 But I'm not part of that study. I don't really 193 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.279 know what's going on behind it, and I. 194 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.639 Don't know exactly. I know he analyzes. I mean, I 195 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.920 guess he just analyzes the lab gives him. But I 196 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.959 think he's pretty self contained as far as I know. 197 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:26.480 And I think it's more like with Bart's thing. It's 198 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:30.199 like it's more, it's not it's not as like rigid 199 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:34.240 like academically and all that is as the North Carolina 200 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.039 State with Darby, And if you're willing to pay for 201 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.559 your own tests, you can get results a lot faster. 202 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:42.360 But yeah, do those tests go deep enough? 203 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:43.919 Is what I'm on. You should send them the both. 204 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.679 You should send them a Bolt Pascal and North Carolina 205 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:48.919 State because you can say, hey, Darby, look at this, 206 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.440 this one came back really interesting. That they can help 207 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:54.360 those guys like really focus on good samples. 208 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:57.440 Yeah, yeah, that that that would be fantastic, like if 209 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.799 if Pascal study or whoever studied is gets a good 210 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.480 hit as long as the data is preserved, because that's 211 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:04.960 a lot of the problem with a lot of the 212 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:08.879 other previous DNA efforts, the very very few that actually 213 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.120 were real, like actually happened instead of just were rumors 214 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:15.120 and mythology and bigfoot land, is that the data is 215 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:20.080 either inaccessible or gone because the scientists had no reason 216 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.360 to keep it beyond a favor to a big foot nerd, 217 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:24.840 you know, or in some cases that people have the 218 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.879 data still but won't share it, which is very unscientific 219 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.039 as well. So hopefully the data will be all right 220 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.120 there and if they do get something interesting, then they 221 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.000 can forward it on to get the like the PhD 222 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.480 nerds all frothy about it, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure. 223 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:42.080 Yeah. 224 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:44.919 The more efforts and in this direction, the better though, 225 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:47.000 because I really do think that the DNA thing is 226 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:49.639 probably what's going to do it at least to take 227 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:52.320 the first few steps into the realm of like, oh 228 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.279 my god, the real and then you know, they play 229 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:56.960 and ketch up with the scientists for the next ten 230 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:01.159 to fifteen years. It's exciting up though exciting times to 231 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:03.320 be be checking out the Bigfoot thing. You know, a 232 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.399 lot more is going on today than say, twenty thirty 233 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:08.399 years ago, And of course that also implies that a 234 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:10.159 lot of garbage is out there too, a lot more 235 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.879 garbage more than ever before. But if you can weed 236 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.919 through all that and figure out and separate the wheat 237 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:17.000 from the shaft, then there's a lot of cool things 238 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:17.320 going on. 239 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.559 Be a good excuse to get Bart back on too. Oh, 240 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:22.360 like we need a good excuse to get Bart back on. 241 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:23.039 I love that guy. 242 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.360 Yeah, yeah, anytime open door policy. 243 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:27.799 He doesn't listen, so. 244 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:30.480 I bet he does. 245 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.600 He claims he doesn't. Yeah, seems pretty convincing because he 246 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.399 knows what I'm talking about. If I mentioned the pod 247 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:37.600 like something we had on there. 248 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:44.000 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. 249 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:52.799 We'll be right back after these messages. Well, should we 250 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:54.440 jump into these articles? These other ones here? 251 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:55.279 Yeah? 252 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:59.039 Okay, Well I'll just pop this one out. This is 253 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:04.039 the article from science dot org. It's basically about how 254 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:08.320 the earliest Homo species did not look human based on 255 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:12.759 a partial skeleton. So the researchers basically have described the 256 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:14.720 most this is I was really excited about this one 257 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:19.879 the most complete known skeleton of Homo habilists. It's from Kenya. 258 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.240 It's about two a little over two million years ago 259 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:25.039 is when this thing was walking around on two legs, 260 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.360 being all apy. Homo habilists, of course, was the is 261 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.840 the first member of our genus, the earliest member of 262 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.320 our genus before Homo habilists. These where we call those 263 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:40.879 critters australopithscenes, Australopithecus this, or Australopithecus that. There's about six eight, 264 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:44.840 maybe more different species of Australopithecus at this point, depending 265 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:47.399 on if you're a lumper or a splitter. But Homo 266 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:51.360 habilist is the earliest member of our genus was kind 267 00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:56.440 of habilist. What is it. It's a tool maker, the 268 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.799 handyman is what they called him back in the early days. 269 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:03.000 And Homo habilis has had a more human like skull 270 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.440 than earlier australopithescenes, right, But the thing is their body 271 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.879 was not very human like at all. They still retained 272 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.399 a lot of the more archaic traits that the predecessors, 273 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:18.399 the Australopithoscenes had. For example, they had longer, more powerful 274 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.840 arms that were very ape like, longer in purportion of 275 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.639 their body, that intermembrable index thing that we'd like to 276 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:28.039 throw around so much. And so this is interesting because 277 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.679 the discoveries basically that the earliest members of our genus Homo, 278 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:35.320 they weren't just simply smaller versions of us humans walking around. 279 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:41.240 They were let's call the mosaics. They were evolutionary mosaics 280 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.440 that had a number of ape like traits as well 281 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:46.600 as human like traits. And that's what we kind of expect, 282 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:48.360 you know, I mean, there's no such thing as a 283 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:51.320 missing link. That is a misnomer. It's kind of left 284 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.600 over from archaic ideas like the great chain of being, 285 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.240 you know, where humans are at the very very top 286 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.320 and all the super primitive like things right the very 287 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.320 very bottom, and there's a chain connecting us all in 288 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:06.159 a direct linear fashion. And that's where we get the 289 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:08.879 idea of missing link, like a link in a chain. 290 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:12.200 That's not the way evolution works of any sort, and 291 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.960 human evolution is included in that. So we would expect 292 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.720 that earlier versions of Homo would have more ape like 293 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:23.080 and human like traits. And of course, one of the 294 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:26.759 interesting things about looking into the anatomy of early Homo 295 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:31.039 or even australopithesenes is that if you look at their anatomy, 296 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:34.759 you can infer some behaviors. I think that's a really 297 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:38.720 important thing that people overlook often, is that anatomy is 298 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:42.759 an indicator of their behavior. So these longer ape like 299 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.879 arms suggest at least that they probably spent more time 300 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.559 climbing than previously believed, even though they were probably pretty 301 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.440 efficient at walking on the ground as well. And again again, 302 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.159 Homo habilis is super interesting because it is one of 303 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.000 several species that lived at the same time in the 304 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:02.879 same general era. Also kind of squashing that idea of 305 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.919 the single seat, single species hypothesis, where like, you know, 306 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:08.919 there's only one of a type of animal that can 307 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:12.039 occupy an ecological niche at the same time, although they 308 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.440 probably had, you know, a variety of niches that they 309 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:16.120 were exploiting at the time. 310 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:17.879 And I love this. 311 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.960 It's because one of the parts of the article here 312 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.240 discusses should Homo habilists actually be in the species Homo 313 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.639 or are they or should they be australopithesenes because of 314 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:32.480 their primitive body And I love that because it echoes 315 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:38.879 it mirrors so closely. The debate around homofluresiensis some people 316 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.720 are still holding onto this idea that homofluesciensis is just 317 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:44.360 like a Homo erectus. Is pretty modern in a lot 318 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.120 of ways, but it's just smaller like island dwarphism. But 319 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.360 there's so many things about it that indicate that that 320 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.879 probably is not the best model. Some some paleontologists has 321 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:55.840 even gone as far as I say, no, no, homofluesiensis 322 00:14:55.879 --> 00:15:00.639 the hobbit species from Flores is an australopithesceene. Others say, well, 323 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.360 it's really more like Homo habilists, and as we get 324 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:06.159 fuller and fuller pictures from the fossil record, we'll be 325 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:08.480 able to sort that out a little bit. But I 326 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:11.480 think that is truly interesting that even though there are 327 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.720 in our genus Homo habilists, they're very, very ape like, 328 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.080 And it turns out, I say that's even true of 329 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:19.080 us Homo sapiens. 330 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:23.519 But well, I took away two things from that article. One, 331 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.879 I think that'd be a really cool name if you're 332 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:27.919 a handyman like fabulous services. 333 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:30.879 Sure. Yeah. 334 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.759 Also, that missing link might be kind of a misnomer, 335 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:35.600 but it did give birth to one of the greatest 336 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.639 pro wrestlers with one of the greatest pro wrestler names 337 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:43.399 of all time, The Missing Link. You do the scientists 338 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.480 far and I'll do the other far. 339 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.559 Okay, very good, I'll do my best. I'll do my best. 340 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.919 Don't let me down, Cliff, I'll just be aping the 341 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.120 scientists myself. 342 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:57.919 So nice. Wow, that's great. 343 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.480 Yeah. I really wonder if it is just a retention 344 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.399 of that upper body climbing adaptations or if they really 345 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.200 were being used a lot, because obviously there's what you 346 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:15.639 could infer or interpret as an improvement in bipedal locomotion 347 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.480 and improvement in terrestrial walking, and so that gives it. 348 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.080 It's not really progress, but it's just an increment of 349 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:26.559 difference away from the Australopithecus precursor. But yet those other 350 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.840 features you know, essentially from the waist up are retained, 351 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.200 because obviously they'd have to be spending a lot more 352 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.840 time on the ground walking bipedally for those improvements to 353 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:39.000 those adaptations to occur. But were they climbing enough to 354 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:41.600 I don't know. If you have to use if you 355 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:43.759 don't use it, you lose it, you know what I mean, 356 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:45.440 or if it's just like no, that's a retention of 357 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.360 features and those just remain unchanged because they're still functional 358 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.799 in that environment, even if they're not climbing to the 359 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:54.759 same degree as they were generations previously. I don't know, 360 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.320 I'm just taking stabs and guessing, because you'd think to 361 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.279 some degree be one or the other in that well, 362 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:04.039 they're obviously on the ground a lot more hintsy adaptations. 363 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.599 But I don't think that the retention of the ape 364 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.680 like upper body necessarily means heavy usage of those features 365 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.119 as much as I mean, we've retained a whole host 366 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:17.359 of climbing features and we're not tree dwellers, you know, 367 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.400 but we still have the arms and shoulders of like 368 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:21.960 climbing animals. 369 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.000 Yeah. 370 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.480 Yeah, But at the same time, Homo habilists they were small. 371 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:28.400 They were about three feet tall three and a half 372 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.200 feet tall or something like that if I remember correctly, 373 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.039 and they were prey species, And I think that's one 374 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.279 of the things that sometimes gets a little bit overlooked 375 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.039 with as far as like tree adaptations if you want 376 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.039 to call them adaptations really, because it's really more that 377 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:44.480 they don't adapt to a behavior necessarily, you know, certain 378 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.559 certain quirks get introduced into a genome, you know, and 379 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.480 and those quirks allow some things to survive better. So 380 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.440 it's not they're not adapting to a situation. It's just 381 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.880 an accidental progress of mutations essentially, and those those ones 382 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.960 survive a little bit better, of course, but you know that. 383 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:02.839 But I want to clarify that for the listeners a bit. 384 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.960 But retreating to the trees when you are a prey 385 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.920 item seems like an awfully useful thing, especially with a 386 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.920 three foot tall prey item. Because Paranthropists gets all the 387 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:16.559 magazine covers because of that that paranthropist's skull that was 388 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:21.279 found with leopard canines in it. They should call those felines, 389 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:24.720 I think when they come on cats. But anyway, the 390 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:28.640 leopard tooth marks in the paranthropine's skull, so it gets 391 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.480 all the press, all the cool stuff about me. But 392 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.880 Homo hablis was absolutely certainly a prey item for many 393 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.640 many an animals. We could guess that they probably lived 394 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.680 in large groups, being primates and being social and all 395 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.000 that sort of stuff. It would have helped a small 396 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:47.160 bodied animal like this avoid predation. And also that tree 397 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.480 being nimble in the trees has to be very very 398 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:52.279 useful for them in a lot of ways. So and 399 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.839 of course where the fruits up in the trees, where 400 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:56.599 the nuts generally up in the trees, are on the 401 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.079