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Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites.

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Speaker 1: So like Shay, subscribe and rade it five star s me.

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Speaker 2: Righteous one Yesterday.

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Speaker 1: And listening watching always keep its watching. And now you're

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hosts Cliff Perrickman and James Bubo Fay. Good morning to you, Bobo.

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How you doing, sir?

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Speaker 3: Pretty good? Pretty good? Long time you'll see me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I spend days now actually putting my eyes

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on you. Just a few days ago, yeah, and what

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a sight to behold. Last time I saw you is

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one in the morning over on the east side of

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Mountain Hood and I was a driving away. I saw

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you in my rearview mirror. What has happened since then?

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Speaker 3: Nothing? Absolutely nothing. I spent the next to you and

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I I reved the next day just because I thought

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the place was awesome. But like some people hiked by me,

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I didn't know there was a trail right by there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that bad.

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Speaker 2: That Mountain Bike trail is a walking trail as well,

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and in fact that the trailhead is new. As I

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pointed out to and we were there, I had not

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seen that cause I hadn't been up there in the

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last year or two.

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Speaker 3: That's way.

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Speaker 2: It seems that there's a new trailhead there and all

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sorts of trails come together in that specific spot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. But I mean like when we were camping, there's

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there's a trail like only like less than one hundred

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feet away. Yeah. Yeah, I was taking a leak and

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I was and then all of a sudden there's two

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women and a guy like walking up and like I'm

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just sitting there. Oh my, Like I was like, sorry,

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didn't know there's a trail there, you know whatever, and

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they were cool. They didn't say anything.

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Speaker 2: That's the way it always goes, you know, as soon

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as you dropped the drawer, somebody walks by.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was like, like, of all the timing,

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you know, it's just like there. Yeah. I got down

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thirty six that night, and then the next time was

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about the saying I went. I went down for the

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south that I was going to go to that one

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lake we were talking about, huh. I started looking at

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the other I started looking at like databases and stuff

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and places I was always wanting to go. I was like, well,

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I got a couple of nights still, so I went

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down Southomore and then I went I went down to

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this one spot for a night and there was totally nothing,

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nothing at all. Yeah, after talking to Sarah, you know,

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about her spot that I just had to go down there,

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and I knew a spot that wasn't real close to

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her because I mean, she is a pretty long hike

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to where her her en counter happened. It was like,

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you know, it takes me like three days to hike

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in there. So I just went through a spot on

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I could camp buy there and it was it was

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beautiful night, like you know, moon and all that, but again,

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it was freezing, dude. It was like I think it

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was right around the seane. It was like thirty five

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thirty six at night.

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Speaker 2: I was not.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't.

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Speaker 3: I mean I was prepared pretty good for cold weather,

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but I didn't have my furry hat or a Deanie

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or nothing. So that was a little chilly. But I

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mean it was just kind of you know, for July,

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that's kind of you know, pretty extreme cold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, you know there's no fire all the

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fire restriction is going on right now, which is very

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reasonable of course, means you can't warm up by a fire,

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and that kind of sucks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would change everything if you can have like

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a little fire and keep yourself warm, but got to

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follow the rules and not in danger everybody and all

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the wildlife and stuff. Just because you're a little cold.

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Speaker 3: I'll still do fires because it just rained recently, Like

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I went to my I would have done a fire

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when I was with you that first night, you know,

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just because everything was so wet and green. I generally

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like totally go with those fire backs, like if there's

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like any kind of fire danger, very aware. I used

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to mean I used to fight forest fire, so.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to love forest fires.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to think I'm a lover, not a fighter firefire.

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I'm a lover, not a firefighter.

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Speaker 3: Oh you are a fire lever, just just the properly controlled,

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maintained one.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It is in my Hominin heritage that I love fires. Yeah,

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it's interesting when you're sitting around a fire and you

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just have to stare into it. You realize, man, we've

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been doing this for three or four hundred thousand years,

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and we're just epigenetically programmed to love that.

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Speaker 1: Caveman TV absolutely or hippie TV.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well cool, it looks like we have a

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topical episode in front of us right now. A number

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of topics have been sent in by both you and me,

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and I'm not sure if Matt contributed anything or not. Prude,

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did you throw anything in the bin on this one

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or is it just us I grabbed something from listeners.

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We had a few that were submitted by regular listeners.

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Speaker 1: Oh cool, cool, very good.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear their participating as well.

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Speaker 3: I just opened my eyes, just open to my mail

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just now to look at what Pruit sent us, and

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I got a message from Paul Cropper about them recovering

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DNA from human mitochondria and nuclear DNA unaccompanied by final

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DNA from the pigmented calcite crust at a scirrel cave

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in Portugal.

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Speaker 4: Really, yeah, we're the where the where they painted on

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the walls. There's these their fingers a lot, So there's

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there's a human DNA that's not there's there's no contamination

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for men the animals, so it's like really clean, and

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I guess they're they're excited about the getting results.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that's one of our articles right now,

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but I did see that article and I thought it

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was fascinating that because it makes sense, you know, because

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you know, you picture those the cave paintings where like

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there's a hand and somebody like put a bunch of

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paint in their mouth and blew it over their hands.

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So it's just the hand is like the negative spot

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where there is no paint.

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Speaker 1: On the wall. We've all seen that, like they did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they generally they put they put paint in

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their mouth or some sort of pigment in their mouth

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and use a straw or something and blow it over that.

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Speaker 1: That's how they do that. And of course that would

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have saliva in it, which is a wonderful source to DNA.

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Speaker 2: It's just chock full of DNA, so that that was

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a very interesting article that I read. And of course

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there's also probably skin cells sloughing off and all that

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sort of stuff. But I think the DNA in the

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saliva is what my brief free to the article seem

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to be what they were going after, and it makes

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perfect sense. Of course, it would be fascinating study. And

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of course once you get that genome all sequenced out,

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you can start piecing together you know, who's related to

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that person today, which is kind of cool and I

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bet many, many, many, many many of us are, which

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would be really really cool to learn about.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Also not in our article. I did see yesterday that

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they're starting to talk publicly about the DNA studies that

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they're doing over his study Sasquatch that Bart is sponsoring

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to some degree with Haskell Heart. I thought that was

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pretty cool. I saw that publicly announced. He has or

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at least start talking about it online, so I guess

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not online. I didn't go to like Facebook or anything,

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but I saw it on one of the other ones,

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like Twitter or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I saw them talking about that, and I thought, that's

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fantastic that there's more than one e DNA study going

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on at the same time. You know, so I'm helping

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North Carolina State University because they have a team of academics.

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Bart's funding this. Saying that they're testing water sources, I

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guess with Haskell Heart, I know he's been doing it

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for a number of years. I talked to Haskell about

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maybe two years ago or more about his efforts doing that.

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Talked about maybe getting some water samples out of the

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bowl run nearby me. We haven't done that yet, but

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imagine we'll probably do that at some point. He did

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reach out again in another like maybe three weeks ago

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or something to me about that. Yeah, so maybe we

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can get something together there. But yeah, the more studies

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the better, is my thought. The more people do an

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actual real work, the better. Of course, that doesn't remove

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the obstacles, which was one of my first thoughts, of course,

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and it's one of my first thoughts with the soil

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sample sampling study that we're doing, or even the hair

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for that matter. And I know Derby. I've talked to

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Derby at length about this. It's like, well, how do

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you identify an unknown you know, I guess that's problematic.

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You know, it sounds problematic, like how do you know

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what you're looking at? If you if you're looking at

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something you've never seen, then I guess I talked to

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Derby a little bit about it. It's like the best

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way or a good way to do it is get

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multiple samples that I'll match each other on the species

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level at least, and then to move on from there

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and then identify what you have. But I guess they'll

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probably be doing the same thing over there with Haskell's

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study as well, So it's just if they do get

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a hit, But aren't they using commercial labs? See, that

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would be the problematic part of that study for me,

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I think is that commercial labs generally speaking, don't go

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to the depth necessary to differentiate on a species level

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when two things are so closely related. But I don't know,

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But I'm not part of that study. I don't really

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know what's going on behind it, and I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know exactly. I know he analyzes. I mean, I

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guess he just analyzes the lab gives him. But I

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think he's pretty self contained as far as I know.

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And I think it's more like with Bart's thing. It's

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like it's more, it's not it's not as like rigid

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like academically and all that is as the North Carolina

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State with Darby, And if you're willing to pay for

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your own tests, you can get results a lot faster.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, do those tests go deep enough?

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Speaker 3: Is what I'm on. You should send them the both.

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You should send them a Bolt Pascal and North Carolina

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State because you can say, hey, Darby, look at this,

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this one came back really interesting. That they can help

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those guys like really focus on good samples.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that that that would be fantastic, like if

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if Pascal study or whoever studied is gets a good

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hit as long as the data is preserved, because that's

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a lot of the problem with a lot of the

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other previous DNA efforts, the very very few that actually

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were real, like actually happened instead of just were rumors

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and mythology and bigfoot land, is that the data is

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either inaccessible or gone because the scientists had no reason

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to keep it beyond a favor to a big foot nerd,

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you know, or in some cases that people have the

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data still but won't share it, which is very unscientific

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as well. So hopefully the data will be all right

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there and if they do get something interesting, then they

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can forward it on to get the like the PhD

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nerds all frothy about it, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The more efforts and in this direction, the better though,

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because I really do think that the DNA thing is

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probably what's going to do it at least to take

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the first few steps into the realm of like, oh

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my god, the real and then you know, they play

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and ketch up with the scientists for the next ten

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to fifteen years. It's exciting up though exciting times to

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be be checking out the Bigfoot thing. You know, a

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lot more is going on today than say, twenty thirty

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years ago, And of course that also implies that a

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lot of garbage is out there too, a lot more

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garbage more than ever before. But if you can weed

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through all that and figure out and separate the wheat

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from the shaft, then there's a lot of cool things

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going on.

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Speaker 1: Be a good excuse to get Bart back on too. Oh,

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like we need a good excuse to get Bart back on.

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I love that guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, anytime open door policy.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't listen, so.

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Speaker 1: I bet he does.

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Speaker 3: He claims he doesn't. Yeah, seems pretty convincing because he

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knows what I'm talking about. If I mentioned the pod

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like something we had on there.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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We'll be right back after these messages. Well, should we

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jump into these articles? These other ones here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well I'll just pop this one out. This is

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the article from science dot org. It's basically about how

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the earliest Homo species did not look human based on

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a partial skeleton. So the researchers basically have described the

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most this is I was really excited about this one

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the most complete known skeleton of Homo habilists. It's from Kenya.

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It's about two a little over two million years ago

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is when this thing was walking around on two legs,

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being all apy. Homo habilists, of course, was the is

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the first member of our genus, the earliest member of

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our genus before Homo habilists. These where we call those

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critters australopithscenes, Australopithecus this, or Australopithecus that. There's about six eight,

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maybe more different species of Australopithecus at this point, depending

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on if you're a lumper or a splitter. But Homo

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habilist is the earliest member of our genus was kind

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of habilist. What is it. It's a tool maker, the

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handyman is what they called him back in the early days.

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And Homo habilis has had a more human like skull

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than earlier australopithescenes, right, But the thing is their body

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was not very human like at all. They still retained

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a lot of the more archaic traits that the predecessors,

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the Australopithoscenes had. For example, they had longer, more powerful

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arms that were very ape like, longer in purportion of

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their body, that intermembrable index thing that we'd like to

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throw around so much. And so this is interesting because

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the discoveries basically that the earliest members of our genus Homo,

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they weren't just simply smaller versions of us humans walking around.

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They were let's call the mosaics. They were evolutionary mosaics

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that had a number of ape like traits as well

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as human like traits. And that's what we kind of expect,

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you know, I mean, there's no such thing as a

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missing link. That is a misnomer. It's kind of left

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over from archaic ideas like the great chain of being,

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you know, where humans are at the very very top

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and all the super primitive like things right the very

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very bottom, and there's a chain connecting us all in

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a direct linear fashion. And that's where we get the

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idea of missing link, like a link in a chain.

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That's not the way evolution works of any sort, and

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human evolution is included in that. So we would expect

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that earlier versions of Homo would have more ape like

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and human like traits. And of course, one of the

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interesting things about looking into the anatomy of early Homo

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or even australopithesenes is that if you look at their anatomy,

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you can infer some behaviors. I think that's a really

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important thing that people overlook often, is that anatomy is

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an indicator of their behavior. So these longer ape like

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arms suggest at least that they probably spent more time

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climbing than previously believed, even though they were probably pretty

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efficient at walking on the ground as well. And again again,

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Homo habilis is super interesting because it is one of

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several species that lived at the same time in the

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same general era. Also kind of squashing that idea of

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the single seat, single species hypothesis, where like, you know,

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there's only one of a type of animal that can

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occupy an ecological niche at the same time, although they

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probably had, you know, a variety of niches that they

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were exploiting at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I love this.

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Speaker 2: It's because one of the parts of the article here

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discusses should Homo habilists actually be in the species Homo

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or are they or should they be australopithesenes because of

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their primitive body And I love that because it echoes

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it mirrors so closely. The debate around homofluresiensis some people

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are still holding onto this idea that homofluesciensis is just

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like a Homo erectus. Is pretty modern in a lot

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of ways, but it's just smaller like island dwarphism. But

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there's so many things about it that indicate that that

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probably is not the best model. Some some paleontologists has

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even gone as far as I say, no, no, homofluesiensis

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the hobbit species from Flores is an australopithesceene. Others say, well,

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it's really more like Homo habilists, and as we get

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fuller and fuller pictures from the fossil record, we'll be

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able to sort that out a little bit. But I

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think that is truly interesting that even though there are

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in our genus Homo habilists, they're very, very ape like,

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And it turns out, I say that's even true of

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us Homo sapiens.

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Speaker 3: But well, I took away two things from that article. One,

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I think that'd be a really cool name if you're

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a handyman like fabulous services.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Also, that missing link might be kind of a misnomer,

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but it did give birth to one of the greatest

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pro wrestlers with one of the greatest pro wrestler names

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of all time, The Missing Link. You do the scientists

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far and I'll do the other far.

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Speaker 1: Okay, very good, I'll do my best. I'll do my best.

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Speaker 2: Don't let me down, Cliff, I'll just be aping the

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scientists myself.

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Speaker 3: So nice. Wow, that's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I really wonder if it is just a retention

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of that upper body climbing adaptations or if they really

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were being used a lot, because obviously there's what you

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could infer or interpret as an improvement in bipedal locomotion

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and improvement in terrestrial walking, and so that gives it.

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It's not really progress, but it's just an increment of

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difference away from the Australopithecus precursor. But yet those other

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features you know, essentially from the waist up are retained,

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because obviously they'd have to be spending a lot more

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time on the ground walking bipedally for those improvements to

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those adaptations to occur. But were they climbing enough to

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I don't know. If you have to use if you

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don't use it, you lose it, you know what I mean,

356
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or if it's just like no, that's a retention of

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features and those just remain unchanged because they're still functional

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in that environment, even if they're not climbing to the

359
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same degree as they were generations previously. I don't know,

360
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I'm just taking stabs and guessing, because you'd think to

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some degree be one or the other in that well,

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they're obviously on the ground a lot more hintsy adaptations.

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But I don't think that the retention of the ape

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like upper body necessarily means heavy usage of those features

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as much as I mean, we've retained a whole host

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of climbing features and we're not tree dwellers, you know,

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but we still have the arms and shoulders of like

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climbing animals.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But at the same time, Homo habilists they were small.

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They were about three feet tall three and a half

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feet tall or something like that if I remember correctly,

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and they were prey species, And I think that's one

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of the things that sometimes gets a little bit overlooked

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with as far as like tree adaptations if you want

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to call them adaptations really, because it's really more that

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they don't adapt to a behavior necessarily, you know, certain

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certain quirks get introduced into a genome, you know, and

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and those quirks allow some things to survive better. So

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it's not they're not adapting to a situation. It's just

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an accidental progress of mutations essentially, and those those ones

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survive a little bit better, of course, but you know that.

383
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But I want to clarify that for the listeners a bit.

384
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But retreating to the trees when you are a prey

385
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item seems like an awfully useful thing, especially with a

386
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three foot tall prey item. Because Paranthropists gets all the

387
00:18:13,319 --> 00:18:16,559
magazine covers because of that that paranthropist's skull that was

388
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found with leopard canines in it. They should call those felines,

389
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,720
I think when they come on cats. But anyway, the

390
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:28,640
leopard tooth marks in the paranthropine's skull, so it gets

391
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all the press, all the cool stuff about me. But

392
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Homo hablis was absolutely certainly a prey item for many

393
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many an animals. We could guess that they probably lived

394
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in large groups, being primates and being social and all

395
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that sort of stuff. It would have helped a small

396
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,160
bodied animal like this avoid predation. And also that tree

397
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being nimble in the trees has to be very very

398
00:18:50,599 --> 00:18:52,279
useful for them in a lot of ways. So and

399
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,839
of course where the fruits up in the trees, where

400
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,599
the nuts generally up in the trees, are on the

401
00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:59,079
ground underneath it. So it would be very very useful

402
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,640
for these animals to be able to be arboreal. And

403
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,079
when you think about sasquatch reports, because we have got

404
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,079
to tie it back the into that, of course, think

405
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,079
how completely adept sasquatches seem to be in trees based

406
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,839
on the siding reports. But you take their behavior and

407
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,400
transfer it to the ground. Because of the really big, heavy,

408
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,599
massive ones would probably be spending less time in the

409
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trees because they don't have the pressure of trying to

410
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:23,519
stay safe or anything like that. And also they're just

411
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big and heavy. Their branches break, and.

412
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Speaker 3: It'd be like in Asia the like where the where

413
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,880
the check antilos, where all those other ones it was

414
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,400
pine like, whereas the Asians are maybe not as much

415
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,599
as like those deciduous forests like the evergreens up North

416
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,599
Moore and stuff like the year and then Africa that's

417
00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:47,039
all deciduous trees, you know, it's like that there's more branches,

418
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:49,000
there's like bigger branches going out that you can like

419
00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:52,160
that aren't just covered little branches like they can. There's

420
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a lot more mobility in them.

421
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Speaker 2: Well, that could very well be true. But if you

422
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,920
look at these same adaptations and apply them to a sasquatch,

423
00:20:01,279 --> 00:20:03,839
which probably isn't in the trees as much as like

424
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,880
these smaller critters would have been, or even the juvenile sasquatches.

425
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,799
But if you plot, if you see the if you

426
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,640
look at those same adaptations or of those same features,

427
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,599
they're equally useful in a mountainous environment over rocks and

428
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,480
steep terrain and that sort of stuff. Everything from their

429
00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:22,200
long arms because if they're on a steep slope to

430
00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:24,240
some degree, their arms would be used for locomotion, to

431
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,240
be hitting the ground a little bit, you know. And

432
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,799
also the flexibility the mid part of the foot is

433
00:20:28,839 --> 00:20:32,000
a fantastic adaptation for living in a montane environment with

434
00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:35,079
steep slopes and uneven terrain and all that sort of stuff.

435
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:41,759
So these arboreal adaptations or features are are equally useful

436
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,200
in the mountainous environment of some sorts. So that's why

437
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,759
I think that's why we see the same features in

438
00:20:46,839 --> 00:20:49,680
the sasquatch, longer arms and legs, and in the mineral

439
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,759
index stuff, flexibility in the feet. These are all just

440
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,240
fantastic things to have that would make your life just

441
00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:58,559
a bit easier if you live in the habitatic a

442
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,880
sasquatch does, and again if sasquatches well, since sasquatches do

443
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,400
show many of these same features you know, ape like cranium,

444
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:12,920
including sagital crest, deep set jaws, big zygomatic arches, shoulders

445
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,359
and for brecation, longer arms and legs, flexibility and the

446
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,000
feed hair cover all these sort of things. That implies

447
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,640
that the last common ancestor between sasquatches and human beings

448
00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:27,279
is pretty deep in time. It goes way back. I

449
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,119
put it back to the australopithesenes and Ego Maane. Much

450
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,799
further than that, anything after Homo habilists. If you're looking

451
00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:36,799
at homoerectus or something like that as a possible ancestor

452
00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:39,559
of sasquatches, you're going down the wrong valley right there.

453
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,960
I think at the earliest, the earliest hominin you could

454
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,440
even look at reasonably as a last common ancestor to

455
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,000
be a Homo habilists. But even that's a stretch because

456
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,839
they use tools quite frequently and fashioned their own tools.

457
00:21:53,319 --> 00:21:55,599
I think I've said before that they have using controlled fire,

458
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,240
but I don't think that's correct now. I think I

459
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:59,279
read some updated stuff on that. I don't think they

460
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,920
were using fire. I think that's a Homo erectus thing.

461
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,720
But I think you have to go at least as

462
00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:07,400
far back as Homo habilists, and probably much earlier to

463
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,160
find the last common ancestor between humans and sasquatches.

464
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: To me, the biggest implication here is that it is

465
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,200
very unlikely that habitlist was the direct ancestor of Erectus

466
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,880
based on this newest find. Yeah, which interesting stuff pointed out,

467
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,440
definitely points to something like Ostelopithecus, and it hearkens to

468
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:30,559
the arguments about fluoresciences et cetera, et cetera, the potential

469
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,240
survival or the proliferation differentiation. You know, how many forms

470
00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:38,839
of australopithcy or their ancestors were there. You know, obviously

471
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,680
with all these things, that have to be a lot

472
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,039
more than we're currently aware of. So this is it

473
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,640
is definitely an interesting find.

474
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, remember that the current estimate is that we are

475
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,240
aware of something like one and a half percent of

476
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,839
the species that have ever lived from the fossil record.

477
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,400
The fossil record has only shown us that one and

478
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,599
a half percent, so most everything that ever lived, we

479
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,119
have no idea that it was there.

480
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: Very good, I was waiting for that.

481
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: I was waiting for a little money man there.

482
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

483
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:21,920
We'll be right back after these messages. All right, This

484
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:25,000
next article was submitted by Bobo. It's in the SI

485
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,839
Dot News. I guess is the source for this thing.

486
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:29,759
Speaker 1: Okay.

487
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:32,599
Speaker 2: So the researchers have analyzed three hundred and eighty something

488
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,039
almost three hundred and ninety fossil specimens representing twenty one

489
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,119
hominin species. And again, just for our new listeners, we

490
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,400
talk about hominin's all the time, not hominid, hamanin. It

491
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,359
ends in an N, and that is a special word

492
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,519
for everything on the human family tree. Since human beings

493
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:56,799
and chimpanzees last shared a common ancestor about six to

494
00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,559
eight million years ago, so hominin. So, once again, researchers

495
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:06,160
have analyzed three hundred and eighty six fossil specimens from

496
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:12,240
twenty one different hominin species to reconstruct how body size

497
00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:15,880
changed over the course of human evolution, and they found

498
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,279
that body side size did not increase in one steady trend.

499
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,640
It did not just increasingly get larger every single time.

500
00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:29,359
There was gradual growth among the early hominins and then

501
00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:34,559
jumps in later species, so it was an irregular growth rate.

502
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,200
So the most significant increase in size and body size

503
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,039
happened about two to two and a half million years ago,

504
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:46,640
and that was the time when the early Homo erectus

505
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,680
and Ergaster, which Homo ergaster was an earlier form of

506
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,759
Homo erectus as well, was as well was Homo rudolphensis,

507
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,240
just so you know, like those are just more archaic

508
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:59,119
versions of Homo erectus. Because Homeorectus was around for a

509
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,480
really long long time, it was by far one of

510
00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:05,480
the most successful hominins, not only in the time that

511
00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:07,720
they were walking around on the planet, but also the

512
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:11,960
distance that we have confirmed that they traveled. I've said this,

513
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:14,240
i think a couple times the last two months. The

514
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,440
actual holotype, the very very first specimen of home Erectus

515
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,759
ever found was in Java. You might have heard of Java. Man,

516
00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:22,400
that's it.

517
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,079
Speaker 3: Man.

518
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Java is in Southeast Asia. But yet we have.

519
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: Plenty of Homo Erectus fossils from Africa. So that's a

520
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:31,599
long range, Man, that's a big, big range. So anyway,

521
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,279
I'm a big fan of home Erectus, but the Homo

522
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:35,039
ergaster and.

523
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:37,599
Speaker 1: Ho rootolphens Is are closer related. Is a little bit earlier.

524
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: So anyway, the most significant increase in size happened two

525
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:44,920
to two and a half million years ago, because the

526
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:49,880
body mass increased to about one hundred and thirty something pounds.

527
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,200
What do they say, is looking at the article here,

528
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,160
sixty kilograms, so like one hundred and thirty something pounds,

529
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,279
which is pretty small still, but at the same time

530
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,440
not nearly as large as almost apiens. Right, And of

531
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:06,880
course not all of these hominin lineages became larger at all.

532
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,480
Some species and I'm looking at you homofluresiensis and homonalide. Homofluesiensis,

533
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:14,839
of course, is the hobbit species from the island of Flores.

534
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,200
Homo nalidi is that South African rising star cave critter

535
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,920
down there that may or may not have buried.

536
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: They're dead.

537
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: And now there's been in the news last couple weeks.

538
00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:27,440
Actually too, they were still pretty small, and so evolution

539
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,640
here is basically giving a variety of hominins a variety

540
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,200
of body sizes depending on what they need and where

541
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,640
they were. So the increase in body size seems to

542
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,079
go along with behavioral and ecological changes. Of course, that's

543
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,079
what makes sense. Climate change is not a modern thing.

544
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,960
It has always been going on because climates are always changing,

545
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,920
and whenever those climates change, some random mutation enables some

546
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,720
members of the species to deal with it better. And

547
00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:01,359
those are the ones that breed more and survive when

548
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:04,160
things feel weird, and they're the ones that we're all

549
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,079
related to because that's how evolution works. So the body

550
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,599
size increase coincided with these behavioral and ecological changes. And

551
00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:16,240
some of the other things that changed along with those

552
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,920
behavioral and ecological changes and the body size thing are

553
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:28,599
better bipedalism, more meat consumption, and longer distance movement over landscapes. Yeah,

554
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,839
that makes sense. All that kind of stuff makes sense

555
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,160
to me at least. So, yeah, things are getting bigger

556
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:36,920
and they're moving further. Makes sense. Let let's really really

557
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,759
keep it simple. Things change, we adapt or our ancestors adapted,

558
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,200
we got bigger, we moved further. Makes sense, but there's

559
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,480
still no clear winner on the theories.

560
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: Well, we're all winners, Bobes. That's the thing.

561
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: That's the thing, that's the cool part about when we

562
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:56,880
look around today, whether I'm looking at these horrible, terrible

563
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,880
squirrels I have infesting my yard, or looking at you

564
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,400
and I wonderful beautiful critters walking around on two legs,

565
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:07,680
or even the lowly fruit fly, all of the species

566
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:11,400
we see today are the winners of the evolutionary race

567
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,000
so far. We're not done yet, we're not all extinct yet,

568
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:17,640
So yeah, we are the winners. So when people say

569
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:21,079
like humans try to put things in strata, you know,

570
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,720
like humans are above these other things, It's like, no, dude,

571
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,839
We're all winners, every one of us, if we still

572
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,759
exist today. We are the winners of the evolutionary race

573
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:30,599
so far.

574
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:32,759
Speaker 1: See, I thought you were going to make the argument

575
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:35,559
that you and I were more basal because we're smaller,

576
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,319
and Bobo is more derived. I e evolved because he's larger,

577
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:40,200
which would be in.

578
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:42,519
Speaker 3: Keepicking with us, and I'm less hurried than he es.

579
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Let's put this to the test though, Like, Matt,

580
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,559
how far did you drive this week away from home? Like?

581
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: How many hours from home are you today? Four and

582
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,480
a half? Four and a half?

583
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess it's past week. You drove pretty far.

584
00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:57,960
I'm just trying to wonder if, since Bobo's larger, did

585
00:28:58,039 --> 00:28:59,160
he actually travel.

586
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:59,559
Speaker 1: Further than us?

587
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:00,279
Speaker 3: Oh?

588
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: Definitely, there you go. Proof is in the pudding.

589
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: I love putting.

590
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: You got to make that a sound by it exactly,

591
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:13,640
That's a good one. It's just so interesting. I mean,

592
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,000
I know, Africa is such a massive continent. You know,

593
00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,400
you can't even really think of it as a place

594
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,079
any more than you could think of North America as

595
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:24,480
a place, because it's like, well, where are we talking

596
00:29:24,519 --> 00:29:26,960
about the Everglades? Are we talking about the Rockies? Are

597
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,079
we talking about the Northern Rockies? Are we talking about

598
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:32,200
southern California? I mean, there's so many different environments. But

599
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:35,559
it is interesting to see such a variety of sizes

600
00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:38,680
because it's easy to think about when humans left Africa

601
00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:42,759
and we went from certain landscapes through the levant into

602
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,200
temperate rainforests and monsoon forests, and then the Subarctic and

603
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,519
the Arctic and vastly different environments that you think would

604
00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:52,880
drive a lot of different change, where you know size

605
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,519
would matter a lot more in terms of thermoregulation, etc.

606
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,720
But they don't float a lot of hypotheses as to

607
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,880
various causal pathways that drove these certain things. But I

608
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,319
guess there's probably not enough evidence there to propose really

609
00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:11,640
strong hypotheses as to like specific causal pathways that would

610
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,559
lead certain things to have these massive leaps and size,

611
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:18,119
while other things not too far away in space and

612
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:20,240
time don't really change much at all.

613
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,119
Speaker 2: So often this evolutionary pathways come down to climate change.

614
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,160
Something changes, and something you know it's not as forested

615
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,319
as it was, and therefore you have to adapt to it,

616
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,880
or or the people who have that the things that

617
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,559
have that adaptation survive, is a better way to say it,

618
00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,319
I guess, as opposed to just picking up an adaptation.

619
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 3: You know.

620
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:42,039
Speaker 2: One of the things that made me one of the

621
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,079
questions that popped into my head with this article is

622
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:47,480
that I'm thinking about the places in the world where

623
00:30:47,599 --> 00:30:53,359
there are reportedly more than one species of unknown hominoid Australia,

624
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,759
for example, or the various islands of Indonesia, some of

625
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,119
the islands have big critters like sasquatch like things. Some

626
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,480
of the islands are reportedly still have the small critters

627
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,119
like why would that be true? Or Australia. The native

628
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,400
folks in Australia that we visited said that, no, no,

629
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,039
we've got the big ones. We got the little ones.

630
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:13,519
And at the time I wasn't aware of the little ones.

631
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:15,079
They're the ones that include me in on it. And

632
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:17,079
I just wantn't those just the baby ones? And said,

633
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:19,119
oh no, they're different, they're different. We would know and

634
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:20,640
I don't know. I guess they would know. I'd have

635
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,960
to trust them on that. But why would it be

636
00:31:24,079 --> 00:31:26,680
that both are at the same place, you know what

637
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,160
I mean? That is a tricky proposition, especially parts of

638
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:34,000
Asia and Southeast Asia. Like I said, I knew a

639
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:36,400
carnivore biologist who did a lot of traveling and a

640
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,640
lot of field work in Southeast Asia, and he had

641
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,279
taken a number of those sasquats like reports. But his

642
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,119
words to me said, for every one report I've gotten

643
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,480
of the big ones, I've gotten ten of the little guys.

644
00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:50,359
So yeah, I think there's places even on the mainland too.

645
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,079
Not just in the archipelago or whatever, but you know,

646
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,599
places where supposedly both types occur, and then there would

647
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,000
certainly be I guess as you'd get more into the mountains,

648
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,880
like the Hamalias. There there are the larger types sort

649
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,319
of sasquatchs like types, the migoy et cetera. And then

650
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:08,319
the more manlike forms, you know, the barmanu, the all

651
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:12,480
musty al masty. So I guess if all these are real,

652
00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:14,240
you know, which is a big if. But you know,

653
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:16,039
we really got the short end of the stick here

654
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:20,200
in North America just having sasquatches. I think we're blessed anyway, though,

655
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:22,039
you know, just I was just in the I was

656
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:24,680
down in the Meldrum files today looking around. I was

657
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,640
digging through the Russian section. I was examining the purported

658
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,960
almosty footprint. Yeah, and I'll say that it looks awfully human,

659
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:37,000
but much much wider, so almosties clearly aren't sasquatches. I

660
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:39,279
think there's something else going on that if that footprint

661
00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:42,359
is actually real and not misinterpreted or even hoaxed, I

662
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,480
guess that's a possibility as well. But there are a

663
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:47,519
couple of casts in the collection and a number of

664
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,519
photographs of footprints that seem to be pretty relatively consistent. Yeah,

665
00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:56,599
my money for almosty and all that sort of stuff

666
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,279
in that part of the world. My money is on

667
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,839
a relative Neanderthal or Denisovan or something like that, something

668
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,000
much more modern than a sasquatch.

669
00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:08,519
Speaker 3: None of the indigenous people refer to them as animals

670
00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:12,960
like everyone. First one is, you know, like a wild man,

671
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:15,160
hairy man, snowman like. They always say it's it's some

672
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:15,839
type of man.

673
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is weird too, because what are we plants?

674
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: You know?

675
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,839
Speaker 2: I started all my lectures. I did this the other

676
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,720
day at the at the library down in Albany, where

677
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,440
I spoke this past week. I said, Hey, before anybody

678
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,559
gets all their feathers ruffled, I just want to let

679
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:33,839
you know I always speak about these things in biological terms.

680
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:35,920
So I'm going to refer to them as animals. And

681
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,559
I could see some uncomfortable shifting and they say it's okay,

682
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,720
you can relax. You're an animal too, and so am

683
00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:45,839
I ask yourself, well, what are the other options? I

684
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,079
guess the other options are plant produce bacteria, that kind

685
00:33:50,079 --> 00:33:51,559
of stuff. So are you one of those? Or are

686
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:52,119
you an animal.

687
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: Get over minerals. Yeah, minerals right, exactly.

688
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,079
Speaker 3: A'm in the bedroom. Okay.

689
00:33:59,839 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: I love Moneybagger, He's the gift that keeps on giving. Well,

690
00:34:06,039 --> 00:34:07,680
I don't want to go off on too big of

691
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,599
a tangent, but you know when people do bring those

692
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,119
things up, and they'll say, well, indigenous peoples around the

693
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,039
world do refer to them as a sort of people.

694
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:18,400
It's like, well, the delineations that we make in modern

695
00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:22,639
times on the basis of things like genetics or various

696
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,280
other methods of taxonomy, essentially of determining what we refer

697
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,480
to something as you can't really apply that retrospectively in

698
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:33,800
the past. I mean, I bet you you would find

699
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,679
peoples around the world, coastal peoples would refer to something

700
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,199
like cetaceans as fish, and that doesn't mean that they're right,

701
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,519
and it doesn't mean that they're wrong either. It's like, well,

702
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:48,039
you would experience those things the same way you experience fish,

703
00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:51,079
Like they're in the water, they come up to the surface,

704
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,119
sometimes they have fins, you know, you catch them and

705
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,119
eat them. Like they wouldn't have made the distinction that,

706
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,800
oh no, these are actually the same type of creature

707
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:01,079
that we are in that brought us sense i e.

708
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,480
Mammals because they didn't have that terminology. That wasn't part

709
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:06,400
of the way that they differentiated the world or the

710
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,480
way that they viewed the world. And so of course,

711
00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:10,079
what would you refer to a whale as well, it's

712
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:12,440
a big fish. So of course if you saw something

713
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,599
that was more like a person than it was like

714
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,800
a bear or a dog or a cat or these

715
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,039
other mammals or a deer or something, of course you'd say, oh,

716
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:23,639
that's a wild person. Doesn't mean necessarily that they are people.

717
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,000
And it also doesn't mean the indigenous people were just

718
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:29,840
flat out wrong or uninformed or ignorant. It's like, no,

719
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,880
they're describing things based on a certain type of certain

720
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,039
number of categories on the decision tree, or restricted to

721
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:38,679
the language they had at hand.

722
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure I've said I'm sure I've said this

723
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,000
on the podcast before, but it always brings me back

724
00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:47,920
to the native gentleman in Brazil we spoke to where

725
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:50,360
they didn't describe them as a hairy people. They described

726
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239
them as a monkey walking on two legs without a tail.

727
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,199
Because they have monkeys in Brazil and it's somebody something

728
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,119
to compare it to besides people, you know, but here

729
00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:00,800
in North America or in other parts of the world,

730
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,400
I have to wonder if I'm wonder if there's apes

731
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,760
or monkeys. Well, I know there aren't apes. Maybe there

732
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,840
are monkeys or something in the part of the world

733
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,920
where you know, almostes are hanging out. I don't know,

734
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:10,599
and I don't think there are, but maybe there are.

735
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,000
There's a lot of things I don't know. When it

736
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:19,920
comes to the WU Yep, stay tuned for more Bigfoot

737
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,599
and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back

738
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:24,000
after these messages.

739
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:30,159
Speaker 3: You know.

740
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,559
Speaker 1: With article Cliff submitted that I really liked because we

741
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:36,360
do try to emphasize laughter and humor on this podcast.

742
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,840
There was a great article about ape laughter.

743
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. So this article we got from IFL Science orangutanin's gorillas, chimps,

744
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,719
and bonobos all lup just like humans. That means we've

745
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,519
been chuckling this way for fifteen million years. Yeah, it's

746
00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:54,920
like anyone who's been to the zoo watches you know,

747
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,760
animal Plotter Discovery that you know you've seen everyone's seeing

748
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,719
like monkeys and and girls all laughing and making each

749
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:06,039
other laugh and it goes on it. They analyze the

750
00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:10,159
laughter of four orangutans, three bonobos, two girls, and four chimpanzees,

751
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,119
and they found that greats laugh with an isochronous rhythm,

752
00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:17,360
which means the vocal bursts are evenly spaced. This is

753
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,119
the same characteristic is also a present human laughter, indicating

754
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:23,039
that this particular trait must have emerged in the last

755
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:25,400
common ancestor of humans in the Great Age, which lives

756
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,840
some fifteen million years ago. Yeah, the researchers weren't expecting

757
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,480
such regularity in their laughter like ours is. They expected

758
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:38,079
to be much more irregular, especially the more distantly related

759
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:42,840
ones animals. Yeah, so the rhythmic regularity of laughter appears

760
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,320
to be remarkably conserved across the Great Age. This suggests

761
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,000
that we've been laughing this way for around fifteen million years.

762
00:37:49,679 --> 00:37:52,480
But humans, we can. We have the ability to alter

763
00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:55,519
our laughter depending on the social context. Social like that

764
00:37:55,639 --> 00:37:58,239
fake lascau something's not funny, like oh ha ha ha

765
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,960
I hear that a lot, you get more oh, and

766
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:07,800
then we laugh faster and we're tickled than we do

767
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,440
during play. While chimps, bernobos rantings and grills maintained more

768
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,800
of us. The same laughter in all scenarios like ours

769
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,599
is more varied, you know, there's more context, where theirs

770
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,280
is all just the same. It's just the same lapter

771
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,119
no matter what the situation.

772
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:25,079
Speaker 1: It's still amazing to think that, I mean, that's basically

773
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:29,000
like a hardwired circuit at that age, over fifteen million years,

774
00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:32,920
that there is like a hardwired laughter circuit. That's that

775
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,280
ancient and fundamental. It's just amazing to think about one

776
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,920
of the theories I'd heard years ago. I guess I've

777
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,760
never chased it down. I wonder if people have developed

778
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,800
it more, but that at least in our lineage, that

779
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,800
it's an extension of basically like grooming behavior because in

780
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,000
a social unit, you know, social apes like that live

781
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:58,880
in troops, gorillas, champs, et cetera, groom each other. You know,

782
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,639
they're they're reinforce social bonds, they're creating new social bonds,

783
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:07,000
helps develop trust or relax tensions, et cetera. And that

784
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:11,039
in our lineage, humor would be like distant grooming. It's

785
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,599
like contactless grooming, like the ability to maintain those social

786
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:18,360
bonds without like physical touch or over greater distances or

787
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,599
something like that. I thought, man, that's a pretty strong hypothesis.

788
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,000
I think that's a pretty plausible theory.

789
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,559
Speaker 2: Well, especially since human language is by far the most

790
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:30,559
advanced thing that we're aware of, at least, right, language

791
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:34,800
at the end of the day is representing ideas with

792
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,960
small mouth noises words in other words, so words are

793
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,920
basically noises that your mouth makes. Right, But you say

794
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,480
something like a tree, the word tree, and I set

795
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,280
a series of three different sounds or e and you

796
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,519
picture a tree. It's a different tree for everybody, of course,

797
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:56,320
but it's a tree, so it's a representative thing. And

798
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,280
so that's social grooming idea of grooming over distance, you know,

799
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,599
is it makes some sense? And also that seems to

800
00:40:03,639 --> 00:40:07,760
be the general trend of human evolution nowadays. Our world

801
00:40:08,199 --> 00:40:11,519
got a lot bigger in the last twenty thirty years

802
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:14,719
with the advent of computers and you know, cell phones

803
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,599
and all that sort of stuff, and it seems to

804
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:19,280
be expanding outwards. Where once you had to write a

805
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,039
letter and put it in the mail, and and that

806
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,320
was a way to communicate kind of telepathically if you

807
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,960
think about it. You know, when you read a book,

808
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,559
you read a book, say you're reading a you know,

809
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,719
Shakespeare or something from four hundred years ago. You're in

810
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,239
that guy's mind. You're in that person's mind. That's a

811
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,360
weird form of telepathy in a way. It's a low

812
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,519
tech form of telepathy, but it kind of is that.

813
00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:43,760
In a way, you can write things on a piece

814
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,480
of paper and give it to somebody and they know

815
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:48,599
what you thought. Well, the digital world is a different

816
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,760
version of that. So we're constantly evolving a larger sphere

817
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:59,119
of you know, like social bonding. Our social bonding circles

818
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:02,079
are getting larger and larger and larger, to the point

819
00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:04,360
where you can have long distance relationships with somebody on

820
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,079
a different continent and still know what they're up to

821
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:11,360
every single day. And it's a it's an increasing sophistication

822
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:16,800
in language abilities, and so laughter may have been one

823
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,400
of the very, very first steps in that direction.

824
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,559
Speaker 3: I think humors have evolved even just recently, you know,

825
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,360
like not talking about like human brain evolution over the

826
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,280
last hundreds of thousands of years or millions of years.

827
00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:32,079
I'm talking just like recently, like in the last one

828
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:33,719
hundred years, fifty years.

829
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that might be true.

830
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 2: I mean, certainly I think stand up comedy as we

831
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:42,679
see it today is a modern art form. Perhaps maybe not,

832
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:43,320
though I don't know.

833
00:41:43,519 --> 00:41:44,559
Speaker 1: I really don't know.

834
00:41:44,599 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: I don't have any information on what bards were doing

835
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,599
four or five hundred years ago. They mean gestures, like

836
00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:52,280
you said, we're certainly doing some stuff, but I really

837
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,360
don't have any information on that.

838
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,599
Speaker 1: So that's interesting thought. Well, I think that's what you

839
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:58,320
could kind of extrapolate from something like this, or at

840
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,360
least guess ad is that the behavior obviously emerged first

841
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,519
if it's fifteen million plus years old, and so there

842
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:09,920
would have been behaviors that triggered that sort of laughter,

843
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,280
and so maybe they were acting out comedy in a

844
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,840
way intentionally unintentionally, I mean, we were obviously laughing at

845
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,519
something across our lidiage or else we wouldn't have had

846
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:23,159
this fixed conserved again for lack of a better word,

847
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,199
circuitry for this long. So you could definitely imagine that

848
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,880
comedy probably predates language because so many of these things

849
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,320
would have like there would have been representational actions, whether

850
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,199
that's some form of like play acting almost like drama

851
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,400
or performing that would have predated the symbolic or artistic

852
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:46,880
representation of those concepts in words and art, and then

853
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,199
that feedback loop begins where it extends and extends. So

854
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,920
certainly within the canon of like any tribes or whatever

855
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:57,000
size social unit, their stories. There are going to be

856
00:42:57,159 --> 00:42:59,400
moral stories, there are going to be stories that are

857
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,239
meant to encapsulate history, and then there's got to be

858
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,000
stories that are intentionally just that are specifically just funny,

859
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,239
you know, that are intended to like bond people in

860
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,239
that way, to cohere your social unit through a funny story.

861
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,239
So I bet you really the roots of comedy probably

862
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,159
go back millions of years.

863
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 3: Like Langor's not being a part of it. Is like

864
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:26,239
when they show primates, this isn't in the articles we

865
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,639
just read, but I know this from other the pastes

866
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,079
that they and like you can go to anywhere in

867
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:33,599
the world and put the Three Stooges and everyone gets out,

868
00:43:33,639 --> 00:43:35,559
like you don't need to speak English to you know,

869
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:39,079
get the slap, Like everyone laughs watching like I've seen

870
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,480
you know, chimpanzees and orangutans laughing, you know, laughing, laughing

871
00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:46,320
watching three stoodos. You know, it's just because it's so basic,

872
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,199
you know, it's just kind of like a base basic humor.

873
00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 2: And also for something to be funny, the most important

874
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,679
thing there is it's fun. And animals have fun. I mean,

875
00:43:57,679 --> 00:43:59,719
it's the bottom line. All animals, I think, have fun,

876
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,800
play with one another and what all that sort of stuff.

877
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:05,039
And nobody, nobody can convince me that's Sochi. My dog,

878
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,039
God dog rest her soul, didn't have a good sense

879
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:10,760
of humor because she did kind of play jokes and

880
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,599
have fun with stuff, and she had messed with me,

881
00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:16,480
you know. And that's the same route for a comedy,

882
00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:18,800
right there, is when you have a dog messing with

883
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,840
you just because they think it's funny. Yeah, there's comedy there.

884
00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:26,000
And so yeah, the comedy gene is a very very

885
00:44:26,039 --> 00:44:28,000
old one, and I think the roots of it is

886
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,039
just having fun, you know, enjoying this temporary existence.

887
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:32,599
Speaker 3: You know.

888
00:44:33,519 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I think to Bobo's point, that embodied humor, you know,

889
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:41,239
like funny faces, funny actions, tripping and falling, that sort

890
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,760
of stuff has to be universal and maybe fifteen million

891
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,719
years old, you know what I mean. I mean, I forget,

892
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:51,039
we were just watching something last night. Maybe we're just

893
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:54,320
like channel surfing or something. But I just had remarked

894
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,079
to Emily about man, I will never not laugh when

895
00:44:57,119 --> 00:44:59,400
someone trips in fall like a pratfall in a movie

896
00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:01,039
or something, or slapstick humor.

897
00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:02,119
Speaker 3: It is always funny.

898
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: And I guess I could say that's immature, but now

899
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,719
I could say, no, it's it's it's ancient, it's eternal.

900
00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:11,599
It's older than you and I and all of our ancestors,

901
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,119
you know. So now I now I can back up

902
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,079
my childish sense of humor with science.

903
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 3: I think, I think for sure the oldest form of

904
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:25,000
like like we're reliant on language would be roast roasting

905
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,840
roast humor, like we just make fun of the other

906
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,719
guy and hackle on and stuff.

907
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: So not not like cooking a wooly mammoth leg over,

908
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:34,920
like roasting it over a fire, right.

909
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,119
Speaker 3: Right, Like I know, like the Native Americans, like the

910
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,280
a lot of the tribes, it was like you just

911
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:43,280
like you just laughed at like when someone got hurt

912
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,400
or you know, like someone like you would just laugh

913
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:47,840
at like misfortune.

914
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: Mhmm.

915
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:49,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

916
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 2: That that's a pretty strong vein in humor even today.

917
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally, we all engage in it.

918
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a lot of this podcast that's focused

919
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,119
on that, Like tell us about your plane flight, Bobo.

920
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:02,599
Speaker 2: You know.

921
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 3: That's not funny.

922
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff

923
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:13,960
and Bobo will be right back after these messages.

924
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: Should we end this one? On the controversial note? The

925
00:46:24,159 --> 00:46:27,920
article about ghosts? Oh sure, sure, yeah.

926
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,039
Speaker 2: This article comes from NZ dot news dot Yahoo dot com,

927
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:34,079
so it's like New Zealand News, is what I'm guessing.

928
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:38,519
I'm pretty sure that's correct. Scientists have figured causes of ghosts, well,

929
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,199
possible cause of ghosts. I'm gonna bump in and say that.

930
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,239
And yeah, actually I wrote an article about this years

931
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,119
and years and years ago actually, so it's kind of

932
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,199
fun to see it circling back around. Researchers of have

933
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:52,760
suggested that infrasound may contribute to haunted experiences. Well, yeah,

934
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:54,519
they kind of do that before, But I guess this

935
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:58,320
article is rehashing that. Infrasound, of course, is our sound

936
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,280
waves that are too low infrequency for humans to hear.

937
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,239
We often talk about it in the context of sasquatches

938
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:09,159
and other animals that generate infrasonic frequencies because of the

939
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,079
curious effects that these frequencies seem to have on human beings.

940
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:18,480
Everything from a feeling of being watched to nervousness. There's

941
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:23,079
the legendary, mythological but legendary brown note that South Park

942
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:25,320
did a whole episode on where you hear a certain

943
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,679
frequency and amplitude and it makes you poop your pants,

944
00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:32,039
the brown note. But it turns out that some of these,

945
00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:35,559
some of these low frequency sounds, which are usually below

946
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:38,559
twenty herds, so twenty bumps per second. Shall we say

947
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,199
that humans generally cannot hear generate sound of uneasy anxiety

948
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:47,559
and discomfort and may be associated with hauntings somehow. You see,

949
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,639
buildings are constantly vibrating and wiggling, basically, and such sources

950
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:56,280
for the wiggling, for the vibrations that you may not

951
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,920
even hear are things like aging, heating system or plumbing

952
00:48:01,079 --> 00:48:06,400
or ventilation systems, even the structural vibrations. Maybe there's some

953
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:09,280
plate tectonics in your area or something like that, or

954
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,320
volcanism like in my area, and all of these are

955
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,440
sources of infrasonic frequencies, and they may affect people on

956
00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:22,599
the physiological level. Basically, participants in this particular study were

957
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,920
unknowingly exposed to infrasonic frequencies and they showed an increased

958
00:48:28,199 --> 00:48:32,760
level of cortisol, which is a stress hormone, and they

959
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,920
reported feeling unsettled, and they also rated this is kind

960
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,920
of cool. They rated music as sadder than those who

961
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,199
were not exposed. So expectations may shape interpretation, which is

962
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,280
a big takeaway from this particular article, because the researchers

963
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,159
argue that if someone already believes in ghosts, they may

964
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,119
interpret their physical sensations like these things, you know, the

965
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,800
stressed or feeling unsettled or something like that we previously mentioned.

966
00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:04,000
They may interpret this physical feeling as being caused by

967
00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:09,000
or as evidence of a supernatural source, where some skeptics

968
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,840
might just say, oh yeah, that building seems unpleasant. So

969
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:20,559
anyway that expectation shapes interpretation is man a bull's eye

970
00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:23,320
for much of the Bigfoot community at this moment in

971
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,760
my opinion. Now, of course, the article does say that

972
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,559
the findings are not presented as proof for or against

973
00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:35,800
paranormal claims, So the authors point out that the infrasound

974
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,960
could explain some of the sensations associated with haunted places,

975
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,239
but does not account for all experiences like visual apparitions

976
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,280
and stuff like that. Although I think that it very

977
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,119
likely could be the source of visual operations as well. Now,

978
00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:54,440
mind you, i've seen a visual operation. I've seen a ghost,

979
00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:57,039
or what you might as well describe as a ghost.

980
00:49:57,079 --> 00:49:58,559
I don't know if there's a better word for what

981
00:49:58,679 --> 00:50:01,199
I have personally seen. Okay, scared the hell out of me.

982
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,760
I didn't dig it at all. I've told the story

983
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,480
more than once on the podcast. I don't see any

984
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,639
reason to tell it again. If you haven't heard it,

985
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,440
just go back to one of the previous three hundred

986
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,599
and eighty something episodes. You'll find it in there somewhere. Yeah,

987
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:17,280
but in some cases that article I wrote, I think

988
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,039
it's called a case for Infrasound. It's on the Cliff

989
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:22,199
Barrickman dot com website. It's pretty old. I wrote it

990
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,360
back in the twenty twelve or fifteen or something. It's

991
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,599
pretty old. But I noted a story about a house

992
00:50:29,639 --> 00:50:32,159
that had a plumbing problem, and I think if I

993
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,920
remember the visual there were visual operations as well, like

994
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:38,920
mists and that kind of stuff, or just like distortions

995
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,119
and focus and stuff like that associated with this particular

996
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,440
pipe that was vibrating in an odd frequency. So which

997
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:50,320
brings us back to Bigfoot. If sasquatches do use infrasound,

998
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,280
as I strongly suspect they do. We would expect a

999
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,920
lot of these things to be in the sighting's database,

1000
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,320
and sure enough they're in there, like the feeling of

1001
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:04,440
Krant's actually noted that many people experience the sensation of

1002
00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:09,719
being observed, of being watched before they even see the sasquatch. Now,

1003
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,559
Grover at the time was he was looking at pheromones

1004
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,400
as a possible explanation for that. Pheromones, of course, being

1005
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:19,679
chemical signals that your body sends out to members of

1006
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,639
your own species or closely related species that communicate information.

1007
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:24,639
Speaker 1: Mating.

1008
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: Pheromones are a big one. Everybody kind of understands that,

1009
00:51:27,159 --> 00:51:29,840
you know, like bugs or whatever, they release a pheromone

1010
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,519
into the air, which is their come hither, look, you know,

1011
00:51:32,679 --> 00:51:36,000
for the other bugs of their species. But there's entirely

1012
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:38,960
it's entirely possible that sasquatches, or Grover was thinking, it's

1013
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:42,760
entirely possible that sasquatches release similar pheromones that give a

1014
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,519
message of unease or disease, not disease, but disease to humans.

1015
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,559
And we would understand it because we're so closely related

1016
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:54,559
to them. I think that's possible. But I think infrasound

1017
00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:56,760
is now on the table, and I think that is

1018
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,760
probably a better fit for the sensations that people report.

1019
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,519
I've heard stories many times from witnesses who have been

1020
00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:06,559
yelled at or at a screened at at close range,

1021
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,239
and several of them have described they can feel their

1022
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,760
body vibrate. Sometimes people can feel their body vibrate in

1023
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,519
the presence of sasquatches, whether they know the sasquatches or not.

1024
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,079
Sometimes they just don't know yet, they haven't seen as yet,

1025
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,400
but sometimes they can. I've talked to a witness that

1026
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:27,199
actually reported their body vibrating, but they didn't hear anything. Well,

1027
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,039
that sounds to me like infrasound. It's ironic, I said

1028
00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:33,239
that sounds like infosound because you can't hear infra sound.

1029
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:36,519
But nonetheless, and so it's possible, I think.

1030
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: I think.

1031
00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:39,159
Speaker 2: In my article, in fact, I go on to kind

1032
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:44,960
of guess and speculate about maybe maybe this infrasonic thing

1033
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:48,679
that sasquatches are possibly using is the source of other

1034
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:54,400
sensations or even hallucinations, visual hallucinations. Why not, so maybe

1035
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:57,719
some of the WU crowd aren't as wrong, as I

1036
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,679
think they're just experiencing something in it attributing it to

1037
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,480
something else because of that one phrase in there in

1038
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:09,639
this article, where is it? Oh yeah, expectations may shape interpretations,

1039
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:12,119
and I think for me at least, that's the big

1040
00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:13,199
takeaway from this article.

1041
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,159
Speaker 1: I think it explains a lot of things. I think,

1042
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,159
first of all, it's probably just the media side of

1043
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:21,920
it that's saying like scientists figured out what causes ghosts,

1044
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,360
when it's clearly that's not the researchers intent. And also

1045
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,840
you'd have to say, well, the belief in the survival

1046
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,559
of death by something like a soul, a spirit, et

1047
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:36,119
cetera is so cross cultural and universal and ancient that

1048
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,239
you can't possibly attribute all that to infrasound as much.

1049
00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:42,960
You know, it'd be like to I get you Referencednletti earlier.

1050
00:53:43,199 --> 00:53:46,079
You know, if those burial sites are indeed burial sites,

1051
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:48,639
if they're being correctly interpreted, which I do lean towards

1052
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:53,119
that interpretation, and these individuals were buried with stone tools

1053
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:58,440
in their hands intentionally, that sort of suggests a belief

1054
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:02,760
in the afterlife, an ancient, ancient belief in the afterlife

1055
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,480
of like you will need these tools at some point

1056
00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:09,800
after this, you know, some degree of like an embodied

1057
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,559
behavioral manifestation of the quote unquote belief of the survival

1058
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:17,079
of death. And so it's like, I don't know what

1059
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,599
old buildings in the LETTI was hanging out in, which

1060
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,440
aging plumbing or boilers they were hearing, you know.

1061
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 3: What I mean.

1062
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's the scientists who are trying

1063
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:27,440
to make that claim as much as it's the media.

1064
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:29,639
But I do think it would also lean into like

1065
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,280
we've discussed many times, is that rather than looking at

1066
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,639
someone who said they entered a quote unquote haunted building

1067
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,840
and had these experiences and saying, oh, well, you're just

1068
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,440
paranoid or you're a scaredy cat, or you have a

1069
00:54:43,519 --> 00:54:46,679
wild imagination because of their interpretation, you could say, oh, no,

1070
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,599
there is a perfectly reasonable cause, a mechanical slash biological

1071
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,639
cause for this very real experience that you had that

1072
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,000
did elevate your COURTSSOL levels, etc. And so no, you're

1073
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,199
not lying about the experience. Interpretation might not be one

1074
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,280
hundred percent accurate, but the experience is authentic, which you know,

1075
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,639
we could apply to many different things within sasquatchry. But yeah,

1076
00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:11,559
I think it's definitely the Yahoo article that gives it

1077
00:55:11,679 --> 00:55:14,480
that title. That would be like saying, well, some people

1078
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:20,599
misinterpret bard owl territorial calls as ape like calls, and

1079
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,280
then to say like, oh, we scientists identified this al

1080
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,880
CAOL scientists figured out the cause of all sasquatch reports.

1081
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,519
Like no, no, no, it doesn't work that way. Maybe

1082
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:32,840
some of these experiences because people were expecting to hear

1083
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,119
sasquatches and heard birds make a sound they hadn't heard before.

1084
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,599
But it is not a hand waving, you know, explaining

1085
00:55:40,679 --> 00:55:44,119
something away. But I did find this article very interesting,

1086
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:45,400
for sure, I.

1087
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: Need to dig up that article. I have not found

1088
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,599
it yet in the Meldrum stuff, so I just probably

1089
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:51,800
need to look in at a different source. But doctor

1090
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,880
Meldrim was telling me in the last six months of

1091
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,079
his life or more that he found research about gorillas

1092
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:00,480
using infrasound, which is a very very close to home

1093
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:02,440
sort of mark that I've been looking for. We've all

1094
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,519
been looking for for a while, because we've all known

1095
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:07,039
tigers use it and elephants use it and that sort

1096
00:56:07,079 --> 00:56:09,400
of thing. But to have it being used by a

1097
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,000
primate that's something I need to learn a lot more about,

1098
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,719
like why do gorillas use it? How do grillas use it?

1099
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,719
You know, like what benefits does it offer to them?

1100
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,119
I bet you that it's going to be very, very

1101
00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:20,320
parallel to that of the Saasquatch as well.

1102
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: And speaking of the LETTI you did mention. It's been

1103
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,840
in the news. It's recently been discovered that all of

1104
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,360
the specimens in that cave that were deposited there I

1105
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,280
think intentionally buried. I think Burger and Hawks's interpretation is correct.

1106
00:56:35,679 --> 00:56:38,440
It was correct they were That's what I think too.

1107
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,000
I know it's debated, but you know, I do agree

1108
00:56:41,039 --> 00:56:43,480
with their interpretation. But it's now been shown that they

1109
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:47,719
were all female, which I think has even more deep

1110
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:52,639
implications than ritualistic intentional burial alone does. So I'm sure

1111
00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:54,519
we'll cover that. So that would probably be worth a

1112
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:56,639
whole episode unto itself.

1113
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 3: But so I guess that we're done for this week.

1114
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: Well, we do have a few articles that were submitted

1115
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:05,239
by our members aka the Pigeons, so we can touch

1116
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,800
on some of those, and we got a lot of

1117
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:08,840
catching up to do because I haven't even talked to

1118
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,079
you guys since you've been together. The members haven't heard

1119
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:13,079
from you, listeners haven't heard from you, So I'd love

1120
00:57:13,159 --> 00:57:15,599
to hear about how the whole trip went, everything with

1121
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:17,679
you guys getting together, the various things you did, so

1122
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,719
we can roll over to pig Land and discuss such things.

1123
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 3: Yes, let's do that, all right, folks. Thanks for joining

1124
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,320
us this week on Bigfoot and Beyond on Clifton, Bobo

1125
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:31,280
and Cruit. Chiming into this always a pleasure, So hit

1126
00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:34,280
like hit share give us a good review. We'd appreciate that,

1127
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,719
and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.

1128
00:57:43,079 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

1129
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,039
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1130
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:52,360
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you

1131
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,639
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram

1132
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:59,199
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

1133
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,440
Twitter Bigfoot Beyond, that's an N in the middle, and

1134
00:58:03,679 --> 00:58:07,159
tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot

1135
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,360
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