Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasikos? I am Dan Favalley back at
you with another Hardwood Knocks NBA trade deadline pimer. We're
onto the Milwaukee Bucks. And you heard Brian p. Porrek
of Bleacher Report, of on SI, of Liberty Bawlers, of
fan sided, of My God, which one of Forbes? I
say that one, which one of Silver Screen and Roll.
He was here to talk Sixers. He's back to talk
Milwaukee Bucks because he covers the entire league and he's
also a Doc Rivers fanatic, and so I figured, why
not bang out the Milwaukee Bucks trade deadline primer with
one of Doc Rivers's biggest fans, mister Taporek. I don't
think I asked you this when we recorded the Sixers.
I was so excited to get into Joel and b
Trades and arrows. How are you doing?
Speaker 2: I am glad. I'm so excited to talk about the
five year extension that the Bucks should sign Doc Rivers too.
Speaker 1: Well, before we get to how much money Doc Rivers
will get in his lifetime extension with the Milwaukee Bucks,
but let me take us through Milwaukee's trade deadline vitals.
So they are beneath the luxury tax by eleven point
five million dollars, and just for posterity, they're twenty two
point four million right now beneath next year's tax line.
That only factors in twelve salaries and not whoever they
draft in the first round. They cannot trade an outright
first round or until twenty thirty one, and they have
no real seconds to trade. I think they have. They
have a top fifty five protected second coming in from
someone from Utah. From Utah, yeah, which will definitely convey
it might I mean there Utah is. Utah is trying
their hardest to win basketball games. I do find it
ridiculous that Utah has become the poster child for tanking
when it's just like, no, this is a I sometimes
feel like we misclassified tanking. But there's also other teams
doing it as well. Yes, yes, shout out to Utah
and Cody Williams, who I still have minimal faith in. No,
I still have faith in Cody Williams. So the Bucks.
Everyone wants to talk about Giannis, mister the Pork, and
so why don't we talk about Yannis. It doesn't seem
like the Bucks are going to move him until he
requests a trade, which in his own words, he will
never do his agent might do it for him while
he consult j honest before he does it. I have
no idea. What do you just make of this whole situation.
Do you really buy into the sentiment that this is
manufactured mostly by the media or is there a real
just this tug of war, logistical tug of war or
psychological tug of war with Yannis trying to decide what
he wants to do, is now at a point where
it's okay, like you're really kind of mecapping the organization
because you're keeping them in perpetual lurch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just so tired of this whole thing. Honestly,
Like I think it is real. I mean, based on
the reporting from Sean's where like you know, Giannis was
reportedly interested in going in the next they have the
quote unquote exclusives negotiating window this offseason. You know, he
let John Horst know he was like kind of frustrated
with the direction of the roster, and now I would
imagine as they're getting pasted night in and night out,
he is not feeling any better about their trajectory moving forward.
I mean, they are you know eleventh in the East
right now, and like Ryan Rollins has been a great story.
They need like four more Ryan Rollins is to really
dig their way out. And I think, like, to me,
the fundamental disconnect is that Giannis keeps saying my number
one priority is winning a championship moving forward, like I
want to win a championship. If I don't win another championship,
my career is a failure or whatever. And if he
really truly believes that, then there is a clearer option
here and is not staying in Milwaukee. You are not
maximizing your championships chances by staying in Milwaukee. If he
wants to, Like if his number one priority was just
to stay in Milwaukee for his whole career and be
like the one you know city RK. Yeah, right, and
like there is nothing wrong with that. If that's what
you want to do, more power to you, buddy. Like,
I don't think there would be as much breathless trade speculation.
There would still be some, of course, but no, I
don't think there would be quite as much if he
just came out emphatically and said, like, look, they can
offer me an extension in October, I'm going to sign
that extension, I want to stay in Milwaukee forever. He
hasn't said that, so I think that the unspoken part
is kind of speaking volumes in this situation. But it
feels to me like very similar to the dance that
Dame and the Blazers did ironically right before they traded
him to the Bucks. Whereas, just like neither side wants
to be seen as the bad guy, Yiannis doesn't want
to ask out because he doesn't want to be seen
as the bad guy. The Bucks aren't going to trade
him unless he asks out, So we are just stuck
in this standoff where nobody wins.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I my whole thing, though, is can I
make the case for the Bucks to keep honest for
a second exactly? I think the fact that they don't
control their own first round pick until twenty thirty one
unless the Hawks come calling, like I just don't know,
or I mean, Portland controls some of their draft equity.
So if you're thinking a few years ahead, one of
those teams comes in, sure, I get it. But from
the Bucks's perspective, if you're able to make moves on
the margin this year is what it is, you're not
gonna win the title. There's nothing you could do if
you go into the trade deadline saying we're not trading
a first round pick, we'll be able to trade three
first round picks over the summer. Maybe you could just
given the way that the market is now like, maybe
that ends up getting you a player who convinces Giannis
to sign his extension. And this is all about we
can say it's about winning a title, but in reality,
it's about keeping the honest in Milwaukee as long as possible,
because it's gonna take another fifty something years to potentially
find another franchise lifeline like him. But I'm also coming
at it from the perspective of do offers for Giannis.
I think everyone frames says, well, if you trade for
him now, you get at least two playoff runs before
he can technically hit the open market, versus if you
trade him over the summer, that's only one. I find
that to ring incredibly hollow, because whether you're trading for
him in January February, or whether you're trading for him
in July August, you're not trading for him, or you're
at least not putting your best foot forward unless you
know he's gonna sign an extension and state put you
have enough, You're gonna have enough intel for that. And
so if I'm the Bucks, if Yannis isn't gonna demand
a trade, I kind of understand what they're doing here,
and I don't. It's it's it's easy for me to
sit here and say they should just trade him. Yeah,
I want to see Yannis on a great team, but like,
what is the what is the harm in actually keeping him?
I guess you could say, does he get injured and
his trade value plummets, he might still be a player
where you're gonna get a boat And the other thing
is if you're not going to get a boatload for
him now, because everyone's pointing to his age, how he's
become less durable, he has some leverage. What if he
says I only want to go to the Knicks, or
I only want to go to the Heat, or something
that's gonna happen to you over the offseason, then two
and so I just don't find a material difference in especially,
it'd be different to me if they controlled the fate
of their own first round picks. And I just feel
like that's discounted from this scenario. And the final thing.
And I'm making a case for keeping him at least
through the rest of this season because it leaves open
the door that maybe you do maybe there's a player
or a combination of players who becomes available when you
have more assets that rebalances your team, gets Younis to
sign an extension, and if it doesn't, you what also
probably happens, there might be more suitors because these trades
are one more complicated midseason, and two, I think two
of the teams at the very least maybe three that
you would want to negotiate with free honest, the Spurs,
the Rockets, and the thunder have no intention of negotiating
a Yanni's trade right now with the way they're going,
And so that's kind of where I'm at with Jannis.
I'm not saying that the Bucks need to do anything
at all costs to keep him, but I don't know
that I actually see the value in short of again,
if that Godfather offer comes, sure, but if it did,
the Bucks might have already struck. I think the conversation
would be, if it does come on the table, do
you trust that John Horst and the rest of the
front office will will strike there or is it. No,
we're really gonna wait this out until Yannis himself, says rout,
because then that becomes a different conversation. But as of
right now, I just don't like. Okay, if let's use
the Knicks as an example, which is the team that
he just is constantly get linked to. First of all,
they can't trade a first round pick right now, and
so any Knicks fans who are just like they're trying
to they want Karl Anthony Towns off their team, but
also think he's gonna be matching salary for Yannis. It
just blows my mind if you think that if you've
made some kind of wink wink agreen with you honest
that hey, we gave this season a shot and then
we'll trade you where you want, you're gonna get more
from your worst offers over the off season when they're
more flexible and have more assets available. And so I
just don't am I wrong here?
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't think they move him at the
trade deadline. To be clear, I think that for all
of the reasons you just laid out, like, I think
there will be a breaking point if it happens, will
be in the off season. Is much more natural and
at that point, yes, you will have a much wider
range of potential suitors because not only you know from
the flexibility, like teams won't be hard cap, but like
the Spurs will have a playoff run too, you know,
similar to Okay, see with Giddy, Like they had that
playoff run, Giddy got totally exposed and they're like, oh, okay,
we are not going to pay you. We will flip
you for Alex Caruso, and then they won a championship
right after. Like, the playoffs are very valuable data point
for Houston and San Antonio in particular Cleveland too.
Speaker 1: What if they just flame out and decide they'll be
tricky because of the second apron unless they're but they
could probably figure out a way to game it with
enough teams where they get out of it. What you
can get Evan Mobley as part of that. Now you don't.
I'm just like, it just feels like more suitors would
become one more feasible, but two out of the woodwork
if you're waiting until the offseason anyway, And also, by
the way, if you're Giannis, I almost wonder personally, I
don't know that NBA players think like this, And it's
not because I think Giannis is dumb. I just think
that if he wants to contend for a title, he
wants to get there as soon as possible. You're gonna
have more in theory, more leverage over the summer because
you only have one guarantee a year left on your deal.
Your goal or your objective should be to get to
a team while debilitating them as little as possible. And
so if you're going to one of like a team
right now and they're giving up four first round picks
and their best two prospects or something, that you're kind
of also making it tougher for yourself to win a
title in the short and long term. And so from
my perspective, I'm Gianni's yes, I know he's getting older,
but his market value, he's he could get injured tomorrow,
so for a serious injury, and there would still be
a team that would max him out when he hits
free agency and can hit free agency in twenty twenty seven.
So from my perspective is Giannis, it's yes, I know
he wants to win right now, but like it almost
behooves you. It gives him more optionality to get to
a team that has to give up less to get
him if he just waits this out, if he even
wants to leave.
Speaker 2: I'm really glad you brought that up, because I've been
meaning to write about this. Like I wonder if this
is similar to the Carmelo situation when he was in
Denver and wanted to go to the Knicks, and then
they traded all this stuff for him, even though he
could have become a free agent in three months, and
like that kind of handicap their ability to build around him.
You can make a case right now for Yannis that
he should almost prefer to become a free age in
twenty twenty seven. At that point, he could just leave
the bus completely empty handed, go sign with the team,
you know, like Miami is already structuring their books in
a way that like they will either have cap space
outright to sign him, or they will make sure that
they have the flexibility they need that like they can
you know, take back salary and assign and trade or
like salary dump someone to carve out on a space
for him. So, like, if it becomes clear that Giannis
is going to hit free agency in twenty twenty seven,
we've seen it. You know, with Lebron in his prime,
with Katie in twenty sixteen, like teams will move heaven
and earth to make sure that they can actually make
a full max boat offer for him. And at that point,
you know, even if like let's say he gets to
twenty twenty seven, he still wants to go to the Knicks. Okay,
they can sign and trade for him, and like, chances
are you're not getting as much in a sign and
trade as you are either at the trade deadline this
year or in the offseason this summer, because he can
then just threaten the Bucks and say, look, I want
to go to the Knicks. You have an opportunity to
negotiate signing trade with them. If you choose not to
do so, I'm gonna go sign with the Heat. And
you were going to be left with nothing for the
one of the best players in franchise history, and that, like,
you are so immensely screwed if you if you go
that route, then it really behooves you. I mean, you
guys should have traded me two years ago, but here
we are.
Speaker 1: And he would also that would spark maybe a different
trend in the NBA's just transaction life cycle where do
players get back to free agency or do they wait
out before signing extensions to kind of use that like
use that leverage so forcefully. I don't know how this ends,
but I'm with you, I don't think they trade him
this season now. I think as the Bucks though they've
they've conveyed that they're willing to operate as buyers, and
I've seen people kind of sit, like make fun of
them for saying as much. But it seems like the
name because of the names that were mentioned for the
most part, but if you're talking about like some of
the targets they've been linked to, it feels like what
they're trying to do is acquire difference makers for this season.
We can make them semi interesting that aren't gonna cost
them the one first round pick they could trade. Now,
when you're looking at that, before we get into names
that might fit it, what is this team's to you,
like biggest needs when you're looking at the way they play,
what they've done this season, I mean, they're another team
that definitely feels like they need wings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, start, I mean they need everything.
Speaker 1: And it's Ryan Rollin's been a great story and Kevin
Porter Junior has had his moments, but they had Kyle
Kuzma starting instead of him the other night. They need
someone to float the non Yiannis minutes. Yeah, that's a
that's a real thing that they need.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like it is honestly easier to find
areas that they don't need and what they do, like,
they have.
Speaker 1: So power forward probably right exactly.
Speaker 2: Like you, you spent so much money to get Miles
Turner that you're presumably not trying to get a new one,
although I have wondered if there's some sort like you know,
you bring up potential little trade options, like would they
doing Miles Turner and Kyle Kuzma for Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. I not thought about that. Does that
even get you? Does that that gets them to town?
That does get them to Town's Money's right? They have
so much flexibility beneath the tacks. I want to believe
that the Knicks would say no to that, but I don't.
I don't. I don't know for sure that they would.
Kuzma's deal does get cheaper and then it's expiring, so
there is that, But then you're you're kind of over
indexing on like what does this defense look like you
have be honest, and you have Ryan Rollins and who
else we got there at that point, So it's just like, oh,
like go Gary Trent Junior.
Speaker 2: So Bobby Port is still there, Bobby.
Speaker 1: Ports is still there. A J Green is kind of
an underrated defender too. But yeah, that's I guess if
you're not giving up a first round. My answer to
that would be, or right, will why not? Like then
you just have this massive qualify town salary if you
do need to attach picks to anything. Uh, I mean,
Towns and Joannis are very intuitive fit, but Giannis would
need to do things defensively all of a sudden that
he's just would prefer not to do right. And if
like the Bucks are only basically a league average defense,
they're a little bit better than league average defensively with
Turner and Johannis on the floor, I don't know if
that holds if you're subbing out Turner for Towns and
like a lot of those minutes have come with Ryan
Rollins and aj Green on the court, and so like,
if you're removing one of those guys, what does that
then look like?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I only brought him up because he's
a potential, Like, you don't need to give up an
arm and a leg to get him. You know, I
don't think it would be a good idea for the
I mean, to be clearly.
Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, is it a bad like because
Carly Town's deal is shorter Now, then you could look
at it and say, all right, So we went through
all the rigamarole of waving and stretching Dame Yeah, getting
Miles Turner, and we turned him into Karl Anthony Town.
We turned Chris Milton and Damian Lillard and AJ Johnson
into Carl Anthony.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, like I understand them saying that they're
going to be buyers because they're so desperate to appease Yannis.
I you know, if you are trading that one first
round pick that you are able to move, you better
be damn sure that Yiannis is signing that extension in October,
because if you are trading that pick and then he
walks as a free agent or you trade him, there
is no guarantee that that pick you know that you're
going to have recovered by twenty thirty one. So I
would be very very careful about trading that pick. And
like in general about being a buyer, Like they're they're
s'milar to the Sixers in a sense of like, you know,
the Sixers have the three max deals and then edgecumb
at eleven million. So like the Bucks have a couple
of these mid size salaries and Turner, Kuzma and Portis,
but like Ryan or Kevin Porter Junior is their fifth
highest played player at five point one million, Ryan Rellins
is four point zero million, he's their sixth highest paid player.
So you know, they've got the flexibility under the tax
so they can take back more salary than they send out.
But it still gets hard to you know, construct deals
for some of these bigger contracts for you know, at
talents would almost have to be Turner and Kuzma or
like Turner and Portis and probably one other deal. You know,
a John Morant, you're still probably trading two of those guys.
Is Zion Williamson, You're still probably trading two of those guys,
Like Zach Levine, You're definitely trading two of those guys.
And like they just already don't have a ton of depth,
So is it worth imploding some of that depth for
any of those players?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think if you can keep Turner
and figure out a way to do something along those lines,
that it might just be worth it, because how does
it You're still kind of in the same spot, You're
just a little bit more. Either you have this name
that is hopefully you're not get I mean, like what
is the word You're not getting the worst contract back
in the league, like the worst part, like some of
the names I had thought of. It is just as
an exercise of who are these targets that they could
get without giving up a first round pick? Is it
Jeremy Grant? I kind of think at this point, like
it's not even Michael Porter Junior. You need to give
up a first round pick for that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Do you need to give a first round pick to
get Zion? At this point.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't. But you know, the Pelicans are saying he's untouchable,
so who knows?
Speaker 1: Uh? I do what they did put out the that
thing saying from Chris Hanes that they're not willing to
trade Derek Queen, and I kind of just respect either
them preemptively setting that as their away status, or did
someone actually call and say, hey, like you know, sure.
Speaker 2: They need the same face if that Atlanta pick or
the pick they said Atlanta turns into like one of
the top three guys in the draft, they need Derek
Queen to be a megastar, or this is going to
age about as well as the Luca trade did for
Nico Harrison.
Speaker 1: So I've approached it from the perspective of if you
were willing to do portis Kuzma Porter Junior like as
the max of like can there be some sort of
three for run structure here. I don't know that I
mind the zach Lavine acquisition if that's the cost, because one,
there is a chance he would be willing to decline
his player off here and maybe re sign a deal
that promises him more money, but it's noticeably lower per year,
so I think that would be a factor to consider.
He's also someone who the playmaking is never really there.
But if you're looking to remain afloat better on the
offensive end without Yannis on the court, I think that
he's I prefer him to Kevin Porter Junior for that
for sure. Is he someone who costs a like you
don't need to give up a first round pick?
Speaker 2: Oh right, I can't imagine. I mean, like the Kuzma
contract is not great, but I mean he's like, yeah,
Levin's earning what forty nine million next year, and so
like you're the only long term salary and that's relative term.
Is Portois is at fifteen point six and twenty seven
to twenty eight, So you're adding that contract but subtracting
you know, nine million from your books this year or
eight ish? They are yeah, around eight seven or eight
this year, probably nine next year, especially if Kevin Porter
Junior turns down to this player option. I mean the
issue from Milwaukee sign though, is like your your depth
is so shallow, especially at forward at that point, like
is Torrian Prince's Well.
Speaker 1: Do are the Kings if they're getting off of this
big zach Lavine number for next season? And so now
you've broken up to a bunch of are they willing
to send Keon Ellis out as well? Okay, so maybe
there's something.
Speaker 2: There that's we're getting warmer homie Dario. Can we get
him involved in this deal somehow or like yeah, I mean,
ugh at Chua, maybe at least to just give them
some depth for like if Kuzman and Porters are going out,
it's Giannis Miles Turner.
Speaker 1: Well, what would be interesting is they become because of
in theory they have Giannis their team, that would have
a ton of minutes available. They could become an interesting
buyout candidate destination too, that's true, which they could. Maybe again,
you're not getting a savior, like we just got a starter,
picked him right off the open market.
Speaker 2: And what if Middleton comes back? That'd be a fun story.
Speaker 1: There you go. So now you've traded, You've got Zacklovine,
You've got ke On Elis, you brought in Chris Middleton
to cost you KPJ. Let's say Torrey and prints Kuzma
and Portis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, if they could swing. That's a fair
point about a buyout. And like Middleton seems like an
obvious buy out candidate, and I would think there would
be interest in him coming back, especially like with the
opportunity that he would have there, the comfort that he
has with Jannis in particular. Now you're talking that that
is probably the best idea I've heard for the Bucks.
Speaker 1: I thought about John Morant. I hate the fit, but
it's just a pure upside play. But I think the Grizzlies,
like you have to give up the first to get him,
and I'm just not doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Milwaukee agreed. Yeah, the offensive fit with him. The
honis just seems tough.
Speaker 1: Would could I interest you in if you're saving Cleveland's
some money? A DeAndre Hunter.
Speaker 2: For Kuzma?
Speaker 1: No, DeAndre Hunter, I mean makes more than that, so
have to be like a Portois situation.
Speaker 2: Oh man mhmm, Well no, they could do. They can
do Kuzma for Hunter, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, they Hunter reached that much money. I forgot Kusma
was so cheap. I forgot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hunter is at twenty three point three and Kuzma's
at twenty two point four. That almost works perfectly.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need to know I'm from Cleveland's and then
I guess I'm gonna need to know what they would
uh what else they would be getting out of that.
Speaker 2: Right, because yeah, they're both. I mean it's four million
dollars less, almost five million dollars less.
Speaker 1: I I guess if that's if Dan Gilbert's involved, and
that's right, he decides that he really wants to save money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're triman the tax bill by about nine well,
the salary by nine one hundred thousand this year. So
with the tax bill goes down fairly substantially. Maybe you
can get like I don't know, figure out Kuzma and
Kevin order junior for DeAndre Hunter and Lonzo Ball.
Speaker 1: So the Caps can't aggregate sout Oh true?
Speaker 2: Oh no, well do it? Structure is two separate trades.
Speaker 1: Then there you go. I thought about I just don't
know what, like where the inside because you just have
no sweeteners here. But Chicago has all those expirings just
kind of burning a hole in their pocket. Is there
any like I would assume move would make a lot
of sense in Milwaukee? Yeah, I just don't like what
is that? I just don't have anything small to attach.
Speaker 2: Right, like not having a single second round pick. It's
brutal for the Bucks, like they it's you know, I
think every team is going to ask for Ryan Rollins
and the Bucks would correctly say no. But like, is
Cole Anthony a good sweetener for like a mere coffee?
Like I like both of those guys, but I don't
think they really move the needle on a in terms
of value for any team.
Speaker 1: No, maybe the Bulls are really hot for Jericho Simms.
Speaker 2: Sure, I guess though, Yeah.
Speaker 1: The targets that wouldn't cost a first round pick, or
that I wouldn't think would cost a first round pick.
I should say, are pretty underwhelming. I like, if the
MAVs are really looking to get flexible, Naji Marshall would
make a lot of sense. Oh yeah, it's Naji Marshall.
And then you probably need to take back like Naji
Marshall and they get off the Kayleb Martin deal for
Kyle Kuzma.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Paul George, they have an interest in the
lightly use Paul George.
Speaker 1: How do they so? That would be.
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: Kuzma Kuzma and portous enough to get you back maybe
Kevin Porter Junior wo the Sixers.
Speaker 2: Do that, probably not because of the roster spots issue,
but they should to get off that money.
Speaker 1: Because what is Paul George that because they can actually
I think.
Speaker 2: It's fifty one point seven or fifty one point sixty
six sixty six, So.
Speaker 1: The Bucks give up those three they can take back.
Oh that that gets them sixty two. Why doesn't that
sound Why isn't that seems so wrong?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That should get them to like I mean one
hundred and twenty five percent so and plus two fifty
so I think I mean it's gonna be close. I
think that should get them forty point nine. Yeah, that's
gonna get it. Oh no, it doesn't. Oh my gosh, No,
they're like two hundred thousand dollars short.
Speaker 1: No, they it gets them to Kawhi Leonard. Oh fifty
million flat.
Speaker 2: There we go. Are you just you gamble on whether
Adam Silver is about to void his contract?
Speaker 1: Well? That self, well, I guess that leads me to
this question then though, is are there any players within reason? Yeah,
you give up the one first round pick if it
got you. I don't know Scotty Barnes, but I g's
not gonna get you Scottie Barnes. I don't know why
that was the name that's brong to mind. But is
there a player that you would be willing to give
up the first round pick four that you could see
coming up? I'll throw names at you. Is this is
the better way of doing it?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: Jared Jackson Jr. Like that I've made you your brain hurt.
Speaker 2: I mean they probably would, but like that, this is
these are This is one of the type of things
where it's like, this is the risk you're running by
keeping Giannis. Is that you're just doubling down on something
that I do not think is going to work.
Speaker 1: Well, let's operate under the assumption that this is well
you're saying, so if it gets Giannis to sign the extension,
if he says, you go out and you trade for
player X, I'll sign the extension, does that make it
easier for you to give up the first round pick
or are you still just.
Speaker 2: I guess? So? Yeah, I mean I guess because then
it at least removes the downside of the twenty thirty
one pick.
Speaker 1: Being But I do think you have to operate under
the assumption for this exercise that he's not issuing you,
that there are players he probably issue it for, but
the bucksborn first round pick is.
Speaker 2: Not going to get them, right. Yeah, So Jared.
Speaker 1: Jackson Junior is the name? Are you doing it?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: That's insane, not on your end, but it's insane that
I understand where you're coming from with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, I think the Bucks
would like the Bucks one hundred.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie I probably would too. Yeah, I mean,
i'd say, like, oh, we could still trade two first
round picks this summer and then we have Giannis and
Jared Jackson Junior, and one like, you get to keep
the Miles Turner contract in this scenario, So that'd be
something you'd be able to look at.
Speaker 2: But I just worry, like, especially with the way the
NBA is trending now, where it's like you can have
two guys on these major max deals and you can
still feasibly build a supporting cast. Once you get to three,
it's tough. They've already got twenty million dollars or twenty
two point five million dollars dead cap hit each of
the next five seasons with Dames, so they're like already
starting right behind the eight ball because of that. Now
you're adding Jared Jackson, you're paying what one hundred plus
million for You're starting front court, and like, who we're
keeping Miles Turner in this scenario, So like, is Yiannis
playing the three? You're starting JJJ, Giannis and Miles Turner altogether.
Speaker 1: I would absolutely do that. You would still be a
negative on the glass.
Speaker 2: Somehow, certainly between JJJ and Turner. You know, I yes,
teams are upsizing. So maybe this is the cure, the
uh antidote to what Houston is doing.
Speaker 1: Or you see like do you turn At that point,
it's oh do we see what? Like Archstererono want to
give us picks? And who for Miles Turner Jackson Junior
is coming right? Yeah, I mean r J Barrett plus
what we're I mean Emmanuel quickly would plably make some sense.
That's a really bad deal though, but still you could
move Miles turn like there are teams that would still
actively want Miles Turner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh for sure, for sure I would just like,
if I'm giving up that pick, I would try to
find someone more complimentary of the honest rather than someone
who plays the same position.
Speaker 1: Okay, I know this team wouldn't do it, but I'm
just curious to see what you think, LaMelo ball mm.
Anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I would
do it, and I'd probably give up even more if
I could.
Speaker 2: Sure. I mean again, if it's just one first round pick, yes,
like that the acquisition cost is reasonable. I just would
not want Like, if my goal is to convince Giannis
to stay long term, I do not think LaMelo is
helping that cause he might only.
Speaker 1: Hurt Tyler Hero. Oh this season's about He's I don't
know if he's even gonna like he's so injured, it's.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, yeah, I mean he's one where so he's
under contract this year thirty three, next year free agent
in twenty seven, So lines up with Giannis.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna get any more expensive either with the
way right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was thinking, Like he's one of
those guys. And I think that's what kind of is
appealing about Levine too, is that, like one would hope
that Lezack Lavine realizes the days of him being a
max contract player are very over. I could see Hero
not understanding that yet, So that would be my one
concern with him, But I'd be more open to him,
I think than JJJ.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, what about what about Trey Murphy? Yes, I
don't think the Pelicans would say yes, but if I'm
the Bucks, I would also look at Trey Murphy and
wonder if that augments because he's Trey Murphy's excellent, but
it's just can he be your number two on a
legit contender? Would still be a question for me.
Speaker 2: But he is not, you know, he's only earning Yeah,
Like he's not earning enough that you have to have
him as your number two. Like that's the concern with JJJ.
It's like you got Giannis and JJJ earning one hundred
plus million. I got the twenty plus million dead cap
hit for Dame. It's hard to build a roster around that.
Tray Murphy's you know, earning twenty five this year, twenty seven,
like it goes up two million every year, like sixteen
ish percent of the cap. That's a great contract. I
have no concerns about that. And that's more like a
number three option. Then you know, you got to figure
out how to get the number two. But yeah, I'm
much more open to him than any of the first
few names mentioned.
Speaker 1: Now, let's assume that both of these players are healthy,
and I'm really only talking about one of them because
he's currently out. Would you give up the first round
pick for Kawhi Leonard or James Harden?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. If the goal is to con and to
be honest, to stay no, again, Like I don't think
it gets them to it being back to a title contender,
but like, if they're willing to double down, that would
probably do it.
Speaker 1: What about would it be? Well, there was another we're
not we both were in agreement that Michael Porter Junior
is not good enough to do that for right.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, yeah, sure I would. I get they're all
in the same boat of like they're not gonna meaningfully change,
Like Okay, the Bucks will go, they won't be the
eleventh best team in the East, like, you know, I
think they'd be firmly in play in territory or maybe
they can threaten for like it's that, you know, the
sixth seed if they make any of these deals. I
still don't think especially next year when like Tatum is
back and Halle is back, and if the Pacers add
you know, an impact rookie, like they're going to be
right back in the mix with the rest of the
you know, good teams in the East, Like this year
is the opportunity if anything like the East only projects
to be significantly better next year, I would think so. Yeah,
Like I don't think Michael Porter Junior. Swings are drastically
sings are title as long term.
Speaker 1: Especially now, would it be more or less reckless or
even just more or less palatable to go the route
of we're not getting up this first round pick for
a star, but what if we were able to get
two or three rotation players who help not only this
season but next and so, just as an exercise, what
if that picks on the table and Dallas is willing
to give you Nausey Marshall, Max Christie and you're taking
the flyer on Derek Lively.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I would be more amenable to something like that,
I think than one big contract, because again, I think
that the Bucks have so many needs that I would
be looking to fill them with depth more than Yeah,
you do it like you trade it for Kawai. Why
gets hurt? You were right back to where we started,
except now we're without you know, like a couple of
your rotation players as well, so you're even worse. But
you do this for yeah, those guys, and now you're
at least you have the depth to survive any absences
for any one of them.
Speaker 1: I don't think this team has the foresight to do it.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: But what if Chicago just said Kobe White, Iota Soon,
MoU and one. If that's not enough, then they're willing
to give you their lottery protected first round pick this year, wow,
to get the twenty thirty one Bucks. If that's too much,
it's you get to pick two of those then it's
just what I'm saying. But if I don't like, both
i Ow and Kobe White are going to be free
agents though, so I don't know if.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a tougher sell for the Bucks,
not knowing that you're gonna be over resigning either one.
You're like, I mean, could you imagine if they they
trade the twenty thirty one pick, those guys both walk
and the off season, and then the Honest is like,
well what now, guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's fair. Here's this is another star one.
It's the most this is so out there. But what
if Jimmy Butler's injured and Steph goes to the Warriors
and says, oh, yeah, send me. I want to play
with another star because Jimmy's not going to be hurt.
Are you're giving up the first round pick for Steph? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, without question. I mean I'm.
Speaker 1: Assuming there'd be better off for someone. What if he's
just as I want to go play with you, Honest
and Charlotte together, get us both, okay?
Speaker 2: Say He goes and tells the Warriors out in the
words are like, all right, we'll call Milwaukee, We'll get
him over here.
Speaker 1: I don't, man, Paul George is you're not giving up
the first round pick for Paul George and we hadn't.
I don't know where we let settled down with the
Sixers give him up without Like, if you're if the Bucks,
if you just figure it out the roster spots everything,
and you're the Sixers and the Bucks are willing to
get to Paul George's money, and it's probably a four
for two and that's like you're moving Eric Gordon or whatever.
Are you doing that as the Sixers? I think so,
especially I think about the Bucks, I'm probably doing it too,
because if Yannis, if I haven't given up a first
round pick, and Paul George, all right, Paul George is
on my books when I already have twenty plus million
dollars in dead money on my books, and Giannis leaves
all right, so what.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, Yeah, Myles Turner is on there as well.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but it's sort of like Myles Turner will
be moved. My point is, just, if I'm the Bucks,
I'm not actually too concerned about the If I'm not
giving up a first round pick, I'm not overly concerned
about the length of these deals. If there's if I
think I can strike lightning in a bottle this season
because of the move, sure, Paul George would be a
perfect example. So the Sixers are just yeah, find the
third fourth, Like maybe the Sixers were even including seconds
to grease the wheels of certain just to get out
of the Paul George contract. If I'm the Bucks, I
think I'm absolutely considering that.
Speaker 2: Sign me up. Where can I get the commissioner on
the phone?
Speaker 1: I guess the moral of the story is, do we
actually think the Bucks are gonna do anything to buy though?
This year?
Speaker 2: I think they. I mean they're really posturing like they will,
you know, I think it's for the reasons we've laid out.
Speaker 1: This season for disinformation. I guess for sure they've been
sending the same signal since like Opening night though to
be sure as well.
Speaker 2: I think like given their lack of assets and their
lack of positive value contracts other than Ryan Rollins and Giannis,
it will be difficult for them to do so. And
I really, really really really like that's the one thing
I do not want to see is that they give
up Ryan Rollins for a short term upgrade or something
like that, because then if the other shoe drops with
Yannis at some point they are even more crude in
the future, not that like Ryan Rollins is a long
term asset for them. Is four million this year, four
million next year, gonna go out on a limb and
say he's turning down the four point ze million dollar player, right.
Speaker 1: Right, So so he's gonna get He's not going to be
a bargain forever.
Speaker 2: Either, right right, right, right, But yeah, I mean, like,
I'm sure that's what you know, especially in these deals
where the Bucks are not offering a first round pick,
like that's the sweetener every team's gonna lot. I just
hope for the Buck's sake that they're keeping both the
short term and long term in mind, and like are
being realistic about with themselves about the prospect of be honest,
either requesting a trade this offseason potentially or leaving as
a free agent twenty twenty seven, Like they need to
hedge against.
Speaker 1: That, I think to their credit, and they have, I've
seen people criticize them for this and compliment them just
given how aggressive they have been during the Yannis era.
Now that it sort of feels like they have reached
an inflection point, I don't think they're gonna be as
aggressive with trading that first round pick, and or Ryan
Rollins if I had to predict if they make a move,
I think what their biggest asset they will use is
their flexibility beneath the attacks to take back more money
and to try and just make a short term upgrade
so that they kind of kick the can over to
We talked up ast the top end of the off
season to where it's we can either take bigger swings
now or now is when the Yanni situation comes to
a head. And I think that's honestly the right call.
I haven't seen of all the like, we know the
way that the Hawks are, They're not gonna go and
get y honest right now. The Spurs aren't the Oklahoma
City Thunder, aren't just the landscape. Not that no team would.
Maybe the Warriors would give up everything for Gianness. But
even if I'm the Bucks and I'm getting all the
Warriors picks, that make some sense, But there might be
part of me that's like, what if the Spurs the
Rockets want to get involved over the summer. I think
the smartest thing is to not do anything to keep
the first round pick. For sure, And I would say
Ryan rollins with the first round pick, for sure, and
then you just reevaluate over the summer. And I kind
of think that this is terrible for content, but like
all the hemming and hauling and pretzel twisting over this
is like that's just the answer, and I think it's
the right one for I think it's the right one
for them. I think it's probably the right one for
Giannis at this point. If you want to get somewhere
without having them give up literally everything to get you,
I think I think that's I think that's what's going
to play out at this trade deadline, would be my guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And like from the Bucks perspective too,
assuming Gianas doesn't request the trade in the next two
weeks like you want, I think it makes sense to
let the lottery play out, like you want more certainty
about what you're trading your once in a generation superstar for.
So like, yeah, Atlanta, you know is the obvious destination
since they own control at least of the picks this
year and next year. Like if you can get depending
on where that Atlanta pick lands this year, now, you know,
all right, Like, am I trading for the number two pick,
the number one pick, or am I trading for like
the number seven pick, because that is a very drastic
difference in value. Then can I also get control of
my twenty twenty seven pick back? Like I think, no
matter what if they do trade Giannis this offseason, even
if Jannis isn't going to Atlanta, you have to get
control of the twenty twenty seven pick back as so,
Like I don't know if you know whichever team gets you, honest,
if it's not Atlanta, that team has to pay Atlanta
something to make Atlanta send that those rights back to
Milwaukee as well, Like that's baked into the price of
the y honest trade.
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, is just not that this would
definitely happen, but what if there's a like we'll get
what just happened in Dallas, and I'm I'm assuming they
wouldn't do that, Like what if Dallas won the lottery? Again? Like,
is there a team that could win the lottery and
will consider giving you the number one pick right for you? Honest?
That's so you're talking about lottery class are Like maybe
there's just a there are teams that will win the lottery.
Washington Utah that are not going to do that, But
what if it's a team that would, Yeah, why take
that option off the however, slim it is, why take
that option off the table.
Speaker 2: Because that also reduces how much they have to send
out In addition, like what I mean, the Spurs aren't
gonna be in the lottery this year, but like you know,
I'm trying to think of a team. What if the
Heat win the lottery and now can offer the number
one pick? Like do you even need to include tell
a hero at that point?
Speaker 1: Probably for salary matching, Probably Turbos years off the books.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Wiggins has a player option arm pals off. Yeah,
I mean I know you were on this boat too,
but like a Heat offer built around Bam I think
could make a fair bit of sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I mean, your ceiling is higher with that,
but you're still then do you have your number two
in place BAM and the number one pick? That's like
kind of absurd actually yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I don't know if you're going that high,
But I mean, what if, like Miami, I don't know
what baman number four. Let's say, so you're not getting
like the top three guys, but you're getting the best.
Speaker 1: Of the rest. I mean, yeah, I think it should.
It makes so much more sense for them to wait,
even if the I think it's been over s like
I get if that Godfather offers out there where it's
what four for five, like, if it's out there right now,
I think depending on the team, yeah, but I just
don't I've been a little bit surprised at how many
people they just need to move. It. It's different if
he requests her out, as you said, which it doesn't
seem like he's done in an official capacity yet.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Right, yeah, I don't know that he will.
But my biggest.
Speaker 1: Question actually is do the Bucks have the courage? This
would be an off season thing. I thought whenever if
they what they deem is a good offer or the
right offer comes along, do they have the gall if
Joannis hasn't requested for out to make the move, I
don't know. I don't Well, we could say that, but
what is what did they pass on the Knicks? Whatever
the Knicks could offer over the off season, So they
passed on nothing.
Speaker 2: Right, that is a fair point. I I I don't know.
I mean, I think we talked about this a little
bit in the sixty But like, what is the bucks priority?
Do they get? You know, they're gonna say we care
about winning a championship, but like they're keeping honest because
they want butts and seats, So like, is that their
primary motivation at this point? Like they know that if
whenever Yannis leaves, whether it's trade free agency, he retires
a buck, They're gonna be in the wilderness for a
little bit. That's just how these things go. I get
the impression that their ownership group is not very excited
about that prospect, and they are trying to punt that
as long as they possibly can. So, you know, are
they willing to risk losing him for nothing to take
this into twenty twenty seven? Or if like or is
it you offer him the extension October first he says no, Like.
Speaker 1: All right, then that's yeah, we're out. But that just
seems like the easiest thing to wait, Like you've just
then you'll have you'll have all your options is to
the not only Yannis trade offers, but the move that
you could make. I just think that that's how this
is destined. I guess I wouldn't be shocked if he
came out and requested a trade just because there's been
so much noise, But it doesn't seem you know, for
him to give that quote to sam Amock and say
that's just not something I'm ever gonna do is you
could say it's hollow, but then it's well, what are
the optics look like if you turn around three weeks later?
Speaker 2: Right right? Yeah? Like I I don't think he does
it this year. I I wouldn't be shocked if they
especially if they can continue to go in this direction
for the rest of the season, if it happens this offseason,
or like as you alluded to, maybe he doesn't officially
request the trade his agent just so without Yeah, he
has no idea what his agent is saying, but his
agent's like, you know what we would like out.
Speaker 1: Please, mister Taporak. This was a lot of fun. Are
you able just to tell our audience they can find
you in all the fantastic work that you do.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find me on Blue Sky at B
T O P O R E k on Si for Sixers, content, Forbes,
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and I well we'll be working together, I'm sure, on
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Speaker 1: NFL projects over the next court. You need a you
need to come in and I can boast my shallow
well of NFL now.
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Where I think we're at thirteen voters right now, you
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