WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.279 Ted Live Today Night of the heart of downtown Salt 2 00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:07.280 Lake City, Utah, on a steamy, hot Utah Tuesday afternoon 3 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.439 in July at Beer Bar. It's one sixty oneies, two 4 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:14.119 hundred South. One sixty onies, two hundred south. We got 5 00:00:14.119 --> 00:00:16.960 the patios open and the misters are going. It actually 6 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.120 feels really nice out there. We've got an event coming 7 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:22.920 up this week we'll tell you about. Andy Larson from 8 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:24.879 the Salt Lake Tribune will join us. We got about 9 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.960 two hours left in the show. Good stuff with Stevens 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.399 and Sylvester who stopped by to talk Utah football. Pablo 11 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:33.719 Maschiutti for the latest on RSL. But let's do a 12 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:38.960 little basketball. A legend around these parts, former college coach 13 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.359 and now one of the more entertaining broadcasters you're ever 14 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:44.280 going to hear. Joe Craven's good enough to give us 15 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.439 some time on a Tuesday. Joe, Happy Tuesday, sir. 16 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:46.920 How are you? 17 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:51.600 Thanks? Beantai appreciate you having me on and always happy 18 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:53.240 to give you a little time here. I'm over in 19 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.119 Denver getting ready to go to a Rockies game, so 20 00:00:56.200 --> 00:01:00.799 we've got a little time before the pre game festive start, 21 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:03.280 and so glad to spend a few minutes with you. 22 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:06.959 I appreciate the time. And of course, you know, when 23 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:10.040 Frank passed. Frank Layden passed away a couple of weeks 24 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:12.799 ago at the age of ninety three. I was talking 25 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.359 to Smitty about who I should have on the show. 26 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.680 You're one of the first names he brought up, and 27 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:21.319 you know, Joe, it's it's actually, obviously it's tremendously sad 28 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:24.439 that we've lost Frank. There's certainly an element to this 29 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:27.200 that feels like a blessing that he's not suffering anymore. 30 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.159 It's really been kind of a sweet experience for me 31 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.120 to interview all these people over the past couple of 32 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.439 weeks and learn all these anecdotes about who he was 33 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:38.079 as a man, as a coach, as a husband, as 34 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:38.519 a father. 35 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:41.159 What was it like being Frank Leyden's friend? 36 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:49.840 You know, it was a a very special friendship Frank was. 37 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.719 You know, we've been For instance, I came to University 38 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.799 of Utah nineteen eighty nine. That was the year Majeris 39 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.840 came and I was an interim coach, and and I 40 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:04.159 think that's when I don't think that's when I first 41 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:08.080 met Frank, so that you know, spans way over thirty 42 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:14.159 years and he just became a just a wonderful friend. 43 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:19.000 And I have given a lot of thought his passing. 44 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.800 And you know, when we were together, we very rarely 45 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:27.000 talked about basketball. As you know, he was a huge 46 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.960 baseball fan. We talked a lot of baseball. He was 47 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:34.560 a voracious reader. We were always the last several years, 48 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:36.319 every time he had seen me, the first thing he 49 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.319 would ask, in that gravelly Brooklyn accent, what are you reading? 50 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:42.680 And so I tell him what I was read. We 51 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.639 would exchange books and talk about books and again talk 52 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:51.479 a lot about baseball. But he endeared hisself to my 53 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:56.159 I have two daughters. One reason we're in Colorado right 54 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:59.960 now is my younger daughter works for the Colorado Rock. 55 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:07.479 And many years ago, when she was probably thirteen or fourteen, 56 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.800 I was in Weaver State, when I was still working 57 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.360 there in a press box in the football at a 58 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:18.159 football game with Frank and we were talking. I said, coach, 59 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:20.919 you're not going to believe this. I've got a little girl, 60 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:25.919 a daughter that just loves professional baseball, loves Big League baseball, 61 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.599 and I you know, we talked about it and I 62 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.400 said her favorite player is Willie Mays for some reason. 63 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:35.680 And so the next time I saw Frank, there was 64 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:41.159 another football game. He brought me this beautiful plaque with 65 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:45.639 a picture of caricature almost like you would see in 66 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:49.800 Cooperstown of Willie May's a list of all these records 67 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:51.960 under it, and you turn it over. It had his 68 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:56.120 signature and then a letter of authenticity. And he said, here, 69 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:59.599 take that home to Shelby. And I said, coach, don't 70 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:03.319 do that. That's a treasure. Don't give that to you know, 71 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.000 some young kid. He said, nah, I she'll like it. 72 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.599 And she has it in her office with the Colorado 73 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.759 Rockies right now. And uh. And he always asked, you know, 74 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:16.319 how's your baseball daughter doing? And then my other daughter 75 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:19.480 is an actress in Chicago, and he when she was 76 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:24.720 majoring in theater in at University of Utah, he went 77 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:27.879 to several of her plays. One day he took my 78 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:32.040 whole my daughter, my baseball daughter I just talked about, 79 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:36.000 and my wife and I to brunch at the Little 80 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.120 America and then we went to one of her plays 81 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:41.279 on a I think that was on a Sunday. And so, 82 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.560 you know, our friendship for two old coaches had very 83 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:48.879 little to do with basketball. It had to do with 84 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:53.120 you know, him, him caring for my family and all 85 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:58.079 our other interests, and it was just a very to me. 86 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:02.519 I kind of forgot, you know, it was a celebrity 87 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:05.680 type friendship with Frank. You know, Frank laden's a celebrity, 88 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:08.839 but you know, he just became a family friend to us, 89 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:10.839 and it was it was very very special. 90 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.000 You know, It's so many good things in there. 91 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:18.839 I often wonder if Frank himself knew how because you 92 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:22.439 referenced his celebrity, and certainly part of frank celebrity was 93 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.839 his personality because his one liners. 94 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.519 He was really funny, he was very witty. 95 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:32.199 But also just the respect that he had in the 96 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:35.680 basketball community as a coach, as a talent evaluator. 97 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:36.959 I wonder if Frank. 98 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.639 Himself Joe really fully realized how many people respected him 99 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:41.399 the way they did. 100 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:45.480 You know, I think I think Frank loved people. You know, 101 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:50.160 he loved being around people. They loved making people laugh, 102 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:54.319 He loved doing nice things for people. And you know, 103 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:59.439 I think Frank knew he was famous, but I don't 104 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.279 think that matter to him. I don't think he gave 105 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.360 that much thought, I think, you know, if you pend 106 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:07.040 him down, he'd say, yeah, you know, former NBA Coach 107 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:09.000 of the Year. Yeah, I was. You know, I guess 108 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:11.399 I don't know. I guess I'm fair. I guess I'm famous. 109 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:11.920 I don't know. 110 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:13.040 Uh. 111 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:17.759 But you know, that never was a part of our relationship. 112 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.199 And like I said, at times, I had to kind 113 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:22.839 of reflect and step back that, hey, this this is 114 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.079 this is Frank Layton, this is a celebrity, this is 115 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.720 a big time dude. And you know, we would and 116 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:32.399 he'd he loved exchange jokes. You know, he gave me 117 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:34.600 a great confidence, said, no one knows how to tell 118 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:36.720 a jokeer out here but you. And I'd tell him, 119 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:39.399 you know, a joke, and he'd laugh, he'd steal, and 120 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:41.480 then I'd get on him because I'd hear later he'd 121 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.399 retell my joke. People say, oh, Frank Layton told me this, 122 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:47.879 this great joke, and I'd get I said, us, ob, 123 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.560 you're taking my jokes and taking credit for him, And 124 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:53.240 he laughed. He just thought that was the funniest thing, 125 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:57.160 you know. But it again, so so special and so 126 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:02.680 blessed that he and I had that relationships. As is 127 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:05.279 many people Spence for so many years. 128 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:09.920 When it comes to you know, Frank Laden the basketball mind, 129 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:14.759 as somebody who coached at very high level in college, 130 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.279 what sort of inside you have there? You know, it's funny, Joe, 131 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:21.319 because I pushed back. I've heard people say on this 132 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:24.560 show and elsewhere like Frank never got enough credit for 133 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:26.959 the coach that he was. Well, people that knew gave 134 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.160 Frank credit because people that know no, and yes, he 135 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.399 went on to do dazzling dunks and basketball bloopers and 136 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.279 became kind of a characterture in a way. I've always 137 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.079 believed part of that was to sell the Utah Jazz 138 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:43.439 to the country and make sure that the team had 139 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.600 the exposure and a little bit of personality and character. 140 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.879 But when I say Frank Laden the basketball mind, the 141 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:51.639 basketball coach, what comes to your mind? 142 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:57.240 You know, I think more than x's and o's when 143 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:00.680 he ever, when he would address one of my teams, 144 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.439 or when I heard him speak with when I was 145 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.800 with Majaris at Utah, he would talk more about what 146 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:11.279 it was what made good teams, you know, being a 147 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:17.680 good teammate, giving to your teammates and taking responsibility for 148 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:22.959 your actions with your role on the team, and he 149 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:26.720 talked much more about things like that to makeup the. 150 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:31.199 The intangibles of being a good team and what it took. 151 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.440 Then he did about, hey, you know, you've got to 152 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.519 screen over here and you got to execute that now 153 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:37.840 if you really wanted to talk to him, and every 154 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:40.720 once in a while when I was still coaching, i'd. 155 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:44.120 Say, you know, what did you do against the press? 156 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.919 And we would talk a little bit like that, But 157 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.279 it was more about the makeup of a good team, 158 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:54.919 the personality, if you will, of a good team than 159 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:58.080 it was Exorcizise. And of course he was once you 160 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.879 did penn him down to talk at x and Oles. 161 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:04.120 He obviously he was very impressive. He had a really 162 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:09.360 good basketball mind. But I think, for my money, his 163 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:14.679 feelings and his thoughts of what it took to be 164 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:18.919 a good team, regardless of the x and Oles, I 165 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:20.840 think was where he was very special. 166 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:24.440 And it just felt like, you know, the term players 167 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:29.759 coach sometimes can be cliched and sometimes can maybe be overused. 168 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.039 But I don't know that we could find a player 169 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.039 Joe that played for him, that didn't love him, that 170 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:38.279 didn't look up to him as a father figure. I 171 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.240 mean one of the most fascinating because, you know, when 172 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.960 I got into this industry, partially I was encouraged by Frank, 173 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:49.279 so I owe him a lot. Actually, yes, but I decided, like, 174 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.080 as much as I can have him on, I am 175 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.559 going to have him on. And it's it's really turned 176 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.440 out to be a little serendipitous because I have hours 177 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.240 and hours of conversations I've had with Frank that I'll 178 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.919 always be able to go back and listen to. 179 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:06.519 And one of the stories he told me was about a. 180 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.080 Player named John Drew, who I know, you know, Joe 181 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:12.200 and old school jazz fans certainly know, but maybe not 182 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.360 younger jazz fans or maybe jazz fans that weren't necessarily 183 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:16.159 connected to the team. 184 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:16.919 Back in the eighties. 185 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:21.200 John Drew was a tremendous talent who just couldn't get 186 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:24.360 it figured out off the court. And you know, if 187 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:27.440 Frank told me the story of John coming to him 188 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.240 and informing him that he had sold the rights to 189 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.080 his future pension for a couple of thousand dollars in 190 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.360 order to, you know, just get the fix that he 191 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.279 needed because he was in such a bad spot. 192 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.399 And as Frank is telling me, the story. 193 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.879 He's getting emotional, and as Frank is telling me the story, 194 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:45.600 he's walking me through how many times he tried to 195 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:49.519 reach John, and throughout the course of his retirement, how 196 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:51.000 often he would check in on him. 197 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:53.799 So we talk about the John and Carl stuff. 198 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:57.200 In the you know, drafting of these legendary players, I 199 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.799 feel like he viewed all of his players almost as 200 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:01.039 like extended sons. 201 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:01.960 If that makes sense. 202 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.279 Well, I don't think there's any doubt. I think Frank 203 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.080 was one of those unique people who got in and 204 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.080 we talked a lot about this that that that I 205 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:16.519 just recently, I mean just a couple of weeks before 206 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.080 losing Frank lost my high school coach who was ninety 207 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.639 one years old. And I have always said I got 208 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.679 into coaching to have an impact on kids' lives, like 209 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.279 my high school coach had on me. And I and 210 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.440 Frank and I talked about that, and you know, and 211 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:38.200 he said, you you go down that road, you want 212 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:42.559 to have a positive impact on everyone that plays for you, 213 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:45.320 and but you look back and you know that you 214 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:48.919 did on some and that's very rewarding. But the ones 215 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.440 that kind of stick with you are the ones that 216 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.519 you you didn't that you just couldn't you know, you 217 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:57.279 didn't feel like you made their life better or you 218 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.960 didn't make them better, or that fought coaching, just just 219 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.399 couldn't kind of get on the same level with you. 220 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.399 And you know, we we talked about and he said, 221 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:10.440 you know, you you you revel in the fact that 222 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.879 the guys you touched and you know you touched and 223 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.639 are very loyal to you. But the ones that the 224 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:18.039 ones that got away so to speak, that you just 225 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.440 felt like you just kind of spent time with, those 226 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.519 are the ones that kind of, uh stick with you 227 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.399 a little bit longer. And he and I both agreed 228 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.519 that that you know that that that does it bothers you. 229 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.840 You know, you wish you could have done more, but 230 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:37.799 sometimes you just you can't reach everyone and you can't 231 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.159 have or you don't have that positive effect on everyone 232 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:44.799 that you coach. But I have no doubt that's what 233 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.080 because we again we talked about he told me he 234 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.039 got into coaching to touch people, not to you know, 235 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:54.639 not to be the NBA Coach of the Year, not 236 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:59.159 to be uh famous, but but to make the world better, 237 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.320 to make people better, you know. 238 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.960 And and the other thing while we're kind of in 239 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.919 this space of the guys who played for him, And look, 240 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.440 Scotty deserves a lot of credit here, Scott laden as 241 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.240 a talent evaluator, and every front office in pro basketball 242 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.120 evaluating talent takes swings and misses. 243 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:21.879 But Joe his hit rate in the draft. 244 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:24.559 I mean, we talk about John and Carl, but it's 245 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.440 Mark Eaton, it's Thorough Bailey, it's Bobby Hanson, it's you know, 246 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.559 trades for Adrian Danley. And you know, if you go 247 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.919 down the list of players who Frank identified as potential 248 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:36.519 really great players. 249 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:37.360 He hit a lot. 250 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.159 So I don't know that he gets enough credit for 251 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:41.840 his ability to evaluate talent. 252 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.639 You know, Oh, I think that's a very valid point. 253 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:50.039 You just named a pretty good list of guys that 254 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.120 he seemed like he had a great feel for and 255 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.200 what they would become and how he projected them, and 256 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.960 and there's there's just a long list that you didn't 257 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.559 mention that maybe didn't go on to start him, but 258 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:09.320 were very solid NBA players that he had a lot 259 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.639 to do with. So I think I think he was 260 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.919 a very solid X and O tactician guy. I think 261 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:20.279 he had a great feel for people and kind of 262 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:26.600 almost a second since about how to project those people 263 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:30.039 to the next level, which for him was the NBA. 264 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.039 You know, your reference. 265 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.200 His love of baseball and it was always fun to 266 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.600 be at the ballpark and run into Frank and Barbara 267 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.480 and obviously the seventh inning stretch to take me out 268 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.639 to the ball game legendary. I wonder if we went 269 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.440 a little deeper. I know he was a Dodgers fan 270 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.960 and told great stories of ebbotts Field. I wonder if 271 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.159 you could illuminate me further on just how deep that 272 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:55.679 love ran, kind of where it was deep from and 273 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.960 what the game of baseball meant to Frank Layton. 274 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.480 Well, one of his great stories, where's and uh and 275 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:07.720 and I at his funeral or his service there at 276 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.639 the Catholic church in in in Salt Lake, when Scott 277 00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:13.360 Game got up and was talking by his dad and 278 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.080 he said, I'm going a little off script here. He said, 279 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.519 let's sing dad's favorite song, and he and one and 280 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:21.639 a two. Of course everyone knew where it was going, 281 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.279 and we sang take me out to the ballgame. Uh. 282 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:31.960 That was that was special and uh. He his one 283 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:36.720 of his great stories was about seeing Jackie Robinson play 284 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.879 first game. He probably told you that, Spence. And the 285 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.000 funny part of that was he he he went out 286 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:47.799 to lunch with some high school friends and they went 287 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:51.279 back to school and he went to Abbotsfield Jackie Robinson's 288 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:54.879 first game. And Frank told this story so so well. 289 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.559 He said, I'm standing there at the railing and an 290 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.240 older gentleman was standing there with me, and we're talking, 291 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.879 and the older gentleman says, now, which one is this 292 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.320 Robinson guy that everyone's making the fuss about. And Frank said, 293 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.600 I looked at him and said, well, we should be 294 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.039 able to pick him out, don't you think. Of course 295 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.600 I made Frank Coe. It took Frank about fifteen minutes 296 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.320 to tell that story, you know, but it was just 297 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:26.480 a terrific story. I think his love for baseball and 298 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.320 for basketball is growing up in a neighborhood at a time, 299 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:34.039 like a lot of us did him before you and 300 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.240 I Spence that you know, there wasn't a whole lot 301 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.879 else to do. You know, in the summertime, no one 302 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:43.600 had air conditioning, no one had, you know, a computer 303 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.600 or cell phones, and you just went out and played 304 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:50.320 it entertained yourself. And he talked about playing stickball to me, 305 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:53.159 and you know, in the neighborhoods there in Brooklyn, and 306 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.559 I think he just grew up. You know, he led 307 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.159 the city of Brooklyn in scoring and basketball and then 308 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:06.160 home runs as a catcher his senior year, and I 309 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.960 think his love for baseball just came from, you know, 310 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.119 playing as a kid and then playing through high school 311 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:18.599 and entertaining himself as a young man in Brooklyn where 312 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.279 they didn't have a whole lot of entertainment going on. 313 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.519 Upon his passing Joe, as you know, he and Barbara 314 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.119 had been married for sixty eight years, and you know, 315 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.640 watching those two over the courses of mine entire I 316 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.640 don't really have a memory of life where Frank wasn't 317 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.119 involved in my life. You know, I was young when 318 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:42.079 my father was here, and you know, so watching those 319 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.759 two over the years and just how good they were 320 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.240 to me, how good they were to my son, how 321 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:50.279 good they were to everybody, and ultimately how good they 322 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.880 were to each other. I wonder what your thoughts are 323 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.880 on Frank laid and the husband sixty eight years with Barbara. 324 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:01.039 Well, it was It's a textbook. And he would tell 325 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.480 you the best assistant coach ever had in his life 326 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.440 was Barbara, and she was I'm a big gardener. You know, 327 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:13.519 you can't you can take the boy out of Southern Indiana, 328 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.799 but you can't take the Southern Indiana out of the boy. 329 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:17.839 And I grow a lot of tomatoes and I used 330 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:22.279 to bring uh, Frank and Barbara tomatoes and cucumbers, and 331 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.279 Barbara just loved that. I mean, she just loved those 332 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:28.440 fresh vegetables, you know, out out of my guard. And 333 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.720 she was always just so gracious, and she loved going 334 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.200 to my daughter's plays and and that that's the reason 335 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.000 his passing was such an impact on my family, not 336 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.079 just on me. I mean he had told you a 337 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.119 couple of stories about you know, both daughters had nothing 338 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.319 to do with basketball or ex'es and o's. But Barbara 339 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.480 was just, uh, she was the runner on that ship, 340 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.839 he would tell you. I mean, she was just just 341 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.039 such a beautiful and gracious woman. And he probably told 342 00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:00.079 you this. Al McGuire introduced them, is how they started dating. 343 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.559 And he'd like to tell that story. And you know, 344 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.279 he's one of those guys that sudden these stories you'd 345 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:09.799 heard a time or two, but they were still very entertaining, 346 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.640 you know, you want to. You know, I'd long to 347 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:13.759 hear some more. 348 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.759 Of his stories if I could, certainly, certainly, Joe, before 349 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.160 I say you lose, just away from Frank for a moment, 350 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:24.640 I just wonder what a college coach like you, who 351 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.400 coached in the game for a number of years, you know, 352 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.759 kind of makes of where we find ourselves. 353 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:31.960 With this sport. 354 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:36.279 And you know in State, BYU hires Kevin Young, BYU 355 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.759 is flexing their nil muscles and they've got a program 356 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.200 right now with a lot of momentum. And then Alex 357 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.759 Jensen has been hired to coach his alma mater. And 358 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.039 I don't know that Utah has the power of the 359 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.359 person that BYU does right now. Hopefully they can get 360 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:52.559 some support because I very much like Alan, I want 361 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.359 him to succeed. But when you consider things like a 362 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:59.079 lot of these players will be making more money than 363 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.759 any of their and coaches and the. 364 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.039 Ability to transfer schools. 365 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:07.400 If you're not happy with your your lot, what do 366 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.680 you make of where we find the college game? And 367 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:11.839 it certainly would be interested in your take on where 368 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:13.240 we find both Utahn and du Yu. 369 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.640 Well, I've always been a proponent or a long proponent 370 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:23.640 that that players should be compensated, uh spence, but not 371 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.279 to the level that it is now, I think. And unfortunately, 372 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.200 I think, you know, the cows are out of the 373 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.039 bar and we ain't getting them back in the barn. 374 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.680 And it just it just has grown in a very 375 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.960 short time, with the transfer portal and and with the 376 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:45.759 NIL money, into something that is totally unrecognizable for people 377 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:49.640 like you and I and people of our generation. But 378 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:56.039 I think all the valuable life lessons I learned playing 379 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:02.160 basketball in college, and you know, I I back when 380 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.920 the NIL was first starting, people said, what do you 381 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.440 think about this? And I, you know, I played at 382 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.880 Texas Arlington, and I think I'm still the six hundred 383 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.119 and seventy sixth all time leading school there. Maybe I'm 384 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:18.440 not sure, but you know, I thought I was pretty 385 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.799 damn lucky. You know. I was on full scholarship. We 386 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.799 were flying around, and we were eating pretty good, you know, 387 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.160 and I was chasing a few cheerleaders here and there, 388 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:28.680 and I thought, God that, you know, how could it 389 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.960 get any better than this? And you know, I'd go 390 00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:34.119 back to Indiana and I'd work in the summer and 391 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:36.839 I'd make you know, eight hundreds of thousand dollars and 392 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.279 that was my spending money when I went back to school. 393 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:45.119 And you know, that summer job that did a lot 394 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:49.319 for who I am today, for you know, the life 395 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:54.079 lessons understanding what it's like to work hard. And I 396 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.599 think we're raising a whole generation of athletes who I'm 397 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:00.640 not saying they don't work hard. But if all of 398 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.119 a sudden, you get out of college and you've been 399 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.200 making say you're just a sixth or seventh guy and 400 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.799 you're only making one hundred thousand dollars, and you get 401 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.720