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Speaker 1: The website is Arrow dot net, ar r Oe dot net.

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It's more than a website, it's more than a podcast.

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It is a podcast network. Where else are you going

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to find street Speak with Alexa and Clarence. We're talking

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about AI Alexa from Amazon having a conversation with an

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AI digital device, and somebody who's actually lived it, comparing

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notes living life only on Arrow dot Net. Street Speak

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with Alexa and Clarence. Enjoy your exploration. Good morning you two.

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I before we even get started, I gotta let you

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know I'm so proud of the two of you for

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putting the a building together because we're in an age

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of trying to make a movement happen again, and a

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lot of people think, well, we just got to find

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somebody to finance it. No, no, no, What you're going

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to unveil is that it took real, honest to God community,

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teamwork and a vision of something has to change. How

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are we going to do it? It had nothing to

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do with a bunch of people coming together with my

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and that's what I love about this guys.

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Speaker 5: Well, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think at the core of this story,

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particularly at the time nineteen sixty nine, shortly after the

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assassination of doctor King, a group of Morehouse College students

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took over a board a trustees meeting to talk about

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various reforms at Morehouse. One of the students was Samuel Jackson,

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and actually one of the hostages on the board was

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Martin Luther King Senior. So our podcast it's at eight

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part audio docuseries, and we really tell this story from

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the planning all the way through the takeover and then

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the repercussions that the students received for this event. So

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that's kind of the base of the story.

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Speaker 1: See, it's that planning that has my attention because that's

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what I love to do. I mean, we can create

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a movement, but it doesn't just happen, and this didn't

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just happen. A lot of things had to be played out.

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And even with Samuel L. Jackson, who was a total

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nobody at that time, he was the one. I mean,

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now that I see this side of his story, it's like,

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oh my god, this is the person that we really

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need to know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting I think because for the students, they

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you know, in this case, they had an academic doctor

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Abdullah Kalam kalamant say thank you Melick, doctor Kalamant who

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sort of set a philosophical base for the students, who

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sort of gave them an understanding, like a framework of paradigm,

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and that sort of was the foundation for what they

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were planning. So it wasn't haphazard, it wasn't out of

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just emotion. It was a connection to history, It was

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a connection to philosophy, and it was a point of view.

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And I think that's why they were successful. They truly

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changed the way HBCUs related to their students.

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Speaker 1: For this event in nineteen sixty nine, there was so

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much already plaguing the headlines, and everybody was nervous about

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what was going to happen in the future. There was

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a lot of uncertainty. But what was it about the

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Moorhouse College that really stepped forward? This one right here

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didn't necessarily become a part of the storm. It created

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its own energy source.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's a good thing. Part of it.

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Speaker 3: I think part of it was that the students that

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more House were frustrated because they you know, they kind

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of felt left behind. Yes, while the rest of the

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world was changing that at the time the administration was

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so conservative and was really in some ways, you know,

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felt like they were at the avant garde of education

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because they were focusing on educating young black men and

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shaping the minds of young black men. But at the

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same time, they were almostnously paternously, paternally protective of these

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students and trying not to let any outside influence get

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to the students, and in some ways that made that negated.

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Speaker 5: What they were doing.

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Speaker 3: The students were sort of behind the rest of the

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world was advancing and how it was thinking about civil

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rights and how it was thinking about the role of

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people of color in America. And I think that's what

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the students wanted. They wanted their administration to keep up

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with the world, and in some ways they really push

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their institution forward.

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Speaker 1: Am I wrong, insane? And please correct me if I am?

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But I mean in today's protests and uprisings at different locations,

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there is no Jesse Jackson, there is no Samuel L. Jackson,

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And it's almost like, where is that one person that

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is bringing us all together as a unity or am

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I missing something here?

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Speaker 4: That's interesting. We talked about this a lot through the

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course of the show. We had one of our guests

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is a award whining filmmaker named Max Schum and he

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did a lot of reporting on the ground at of

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the George Floyd uprising, and he talked about in the

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age of social media, when it's very easy to kind

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of get a lot of people on the same wavelength collectively, right,

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but kind of the age of the singular force or

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the singular leader has become very difficult, especially an age

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of misinformation. And I think what was interesting too about

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this time at Morehouse is that doctor King's death we're

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talking to getting six months after King dies in sixty eight,

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when this lacking happens. Doctor King's death was particularly traumatic

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to Morehouse, particularly traumatic to Atlanta. He was an Atlanta man,

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He was a Morehouse man, he was a Georgian man.

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Speaker 5: So when he dies, it challenges the.

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Speaker 4: Entire framework of the pedagogical ideology of being a Morehouse man,

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where the institution challenges you to do something when things

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are awry. So and again you have in Malcolm dies

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sixty five three years before that, So you have a

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Black America that is in kind of a constant state,

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a kind of a permanent state of mourning and dread

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coming out of the sixties civil rights movement. So so

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looking at that kind of in the context of modern times.

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And I think the intense almost the kind of the

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recriminalizing of protests and uprising was I think a big

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core question of this series, like how, okay, what does

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the next twenty twenty five years of protest look like,

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you know, and and how how are young people going

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to be galvanized if the constant again we're talking about now,

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it's like, so you do something, it's it's digitally recorded forever,

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it follows you forever. It's not life again, Like, think

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about the consequences. I mean, they got suspended for a year,

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most of them came back, finished their degrees.

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Speaker 5: The consequences with these kids now was way worse.

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Speaker 3: And I would say in terms of the having leaders,

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I think you know, we you know, hindsight is twenty twenty.

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We know things about these leaders, personal things, things about

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the way they conducted their personal lives that you know,

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people across the country at.

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Speaker 5: The time didn't know about these leaders.

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Speaker 3: And I think the loss of privacy, the way that

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if you become a social media sensation, I mean in

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a real sort of organic way, you become a leader,

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let's say, in the Black Lives movement or other movements

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that all of a sudden, your personal life is scrutinized

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to the point that it makes it hard to continue

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that leadership. So I think the modern context we do

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have to consider that when we feel like we don't

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have that that sort of archetype leader that we seem to,

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you know, to idealize in the civil rights movement.

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Speaker 5: But I think that.

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Speaker 3: Students have the power and people have the power today

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is really the power of the purse, and I think

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the ability to organize collectively and to silently speak where

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capitalism hurts most is the tool. I think that people

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don't think about using this particular if they continue to

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shop at this particular you know, hardware store they use,

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they go to this particular coffee shop. But I think

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using the mobilizing power of social media to then really

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direct our dollars is a way of really hurting the

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machine without taking on the sort of personal uh, you know,

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there's such a price that you pay personally. Now, like

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students are getting banned from college, yes, and now in

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Texas they're trying to they're trying to defund high schools

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that protest, you know, so the system is become in

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some ways a little bit more insidious in the ways reacting.

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But I think that there's opportunities for us, for us

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to hurt the system as well.

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Speaker 5: You know that.

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Speaker 3: That's I tell my young students when I teach that

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cell phone is one of the most direct ways you

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can hurt the system because if you turn that thing off,

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if you leave it home, and that data stops sending

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data to those servers, that is a disaster. If you

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guys do that en mask, that is a disaster to

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the system that the system feels immediately.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with middle Eck and

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Hans coming right up. The name of the podcast, The

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A Building. We are back with middlek and Hans. I

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want listeners to check out the A Building. And the

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reason why is because you guys are not archaeologists. You're

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not historians in the way that historians act. You are

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a presence in our place of now, because cities do.

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When something happens in Atlanta, we here in Charlotte will

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probably have a gathering as well, and they'll do it

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in Seattle. I don't remember reading that in those days

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of the nineteen sixties, especially the latter part, where cities

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came together to create a nation of people. And that's

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what I love about this podcast is all the way

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through what I'm saying there going holy crap, this is

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going on right now, these guys are leading us on

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how to do it in a better way.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, what's interesting in this moment and looking

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back on kind of the world they were staring at

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right the decisions that.

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Speaker 5: They were having to make.

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Speaker 4: We have.

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Speaker 5: One of the big breakthroughs in our show was booking in.

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Speaker 4: This guy's name is James Early, Yes, and he was

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there and he was a close friend of Sam's, and

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he was six months away from graduation, like this a

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big deal to get your bachelor's degree in nineteen sixty

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nine from Morehouse College. And I asked him during the show,

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I said, did you have any hesitation about going into

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that into that boardroom and locking? He said, no, that

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was the moment, Like that was the thing. And when

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he joined the protests that had already started, he had

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to climb a tree. He climbed a tree to get

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into a window to go in there because they had

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already chained the door. Like that's how committed he was

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to the time, to the moment.

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Speaker 5: So these are the this type of kind of.

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Speaker 4: Direct activism where you see a moment, you see a situation,

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and you're not even given any thought to the potential consequence.

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And we actually we you know, we have an actor

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read the suspension letter that he received, and that that

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that everyone received who was a part of this event.

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And it's funny because the letter is both, you know,

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pejorative but also encouraging. It's like a you know, it's

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like an aunt that doesn't want to give you a beating.

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Speaker 5: Why are you making me do this?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, come on back when this is

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over and we'll let you finish your degree. You know,

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even the letter itself kind of takes you back into

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Even the letter has kind of a cultural specificity of

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the time, like, look, we were doing this because we

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have to, but it's not really that big a deal.

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Come on back when the suspension is over.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that I feel deep

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inside my heart, I'm always comparing things to Bible stories

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and things and so bad. This feels like the creation

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of the upper room. Once we closed that door, knowing

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everything that was on the inside, what you once had

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out there, does no longer exist because what you're doing

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in here is you're going to move the people, and

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even though it may look bad in the headlines, you're

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going to move the people. And I just feel so

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empowered by the stories of the A Building.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's just this time period, I

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would say from the nineteen forties to the nineteen seventies

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in terms of people organizing all over the country. There's

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you know, in the nineteen fifties, in particular rule North Carolina,

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people were organizing boycotts, were trying to get voting rights,

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and a lot of those heroes are unsung because they

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were organizing in rural areas and they really set the

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foundation for what was happening in some of the bigger

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cities in the South. And you know, I really encourage

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people to when if you're you know, you look at

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today and you feel sort of discouraged and you feel like,

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how are we going to overcome? We've got so many challenges,

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We've got all this this technology that's invasive and is

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violating our privacy. The conditions that people were organizing in

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and and succeeding, right, and it wasn't fast, but they

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were succeeding. It's it gives you hope because they were

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doing this under.

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Speaker 5: Really difficult condition.

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Speaker 3: And I think so I think history always will sort

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of emotionally bail us out.

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Speaker 5: It'll keep us from being in despair.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's why it's important to sort of

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look back at how did people not the stories, not

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the rumors, but how did it actually happen? And sometimes

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as simple as speaking to your elders, you know, Madick

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and I were really lucky enough to be able to

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catch the people who were actually there, who are getting

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up there in age, and in some ways hadn't some

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of them hadn't thought about this story. Some of them,

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you know, would casually mention the story to people, but

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you know, they appreciate the fact that somebody really wants

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to delve in and get this story out there. So

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that's kind of what I would encourage people that if

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you really like the A building, just continue to study

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history because it will provide a roadmap for what you

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need to do in the future.

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Speaker 1: In all of your research. Though, I mean, I mean,

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because I'm sure you have. You found yourself in late

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night libraries doing the microfilm and you were going through

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that stuff that we all used to use as a

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tool to get to the history. Did you ever feel

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all of that stuff that was placed on that little

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piece of film? Was it? Was it some sort of

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a you know, like a bait magic or in other words,

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where they're trying to bait you away from what was

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really going on.

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Speaker 5: Oh, that's a great question.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what was interesting about how it was

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reported after after the event happened, It made national news in

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a variety of newspapers, associated press, and there was this

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one word that consistently came up as it was supported militants, militants.

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And we kept, I kept we shout out to Dona Santi,

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who researcher, and he kept finding these articles and this

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this one word kept coming up again and again and again,

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and I was like, what does this mean?

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Speaker 5: Militants?

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Speaker 4: And it's like these are just you know, these are

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sociology majors from from philosophy majors like these were the

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humanity students that were doing this. It was the theater kids,

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it was the humanities kids. These were the ones that

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were in there. So this idea of this kind of

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organized militaristic force was was interesting. Then what we discovered

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and we'll see this in a couple of weeks when

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we when we talked to Frank Furguzli, who was an

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FBI agent for twenty five years counter terrorism. He talked

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about in those days, buzzwords like that were used as

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like surveillance nets. So basically it was a way to say, hey,

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target these.

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Speaker 3: Equals a passport to surveil people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was exactly, it was a passport to surveillance.

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So basically, and and Sam was a part of this.

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This happened to James Thomas Brock, a lot of people

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we interviewed. They became targeted by the FBI after this

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event as potential militant anti you know, establishment, anti establishment

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figures figures. Yeah, they got permission from the state to

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be surveilled. And the press was a part of it.

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Like it's like you start to look at stuff like

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this and it's like you're kind of seeing almost like

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the births of where conspiracy theories exactly, you know what

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I mean, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Wow, eighteen minutes with you guys is not enough. Holy crap, man,

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you got to come back to this show where we

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can dig even deeper, because I'm very excited to find

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out what's your next podcast? Because you talked about it.

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There are a lot of unspoken stories here in the South,

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and why aren't we hearing them here?

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Speaker 5: You come.

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Speaker 1: I just have this feeling in my heart that you

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are just getting started.

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Speaker 5: No, thank you for the time. Greatly appreciated.

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Speaker 3: And if you guys listen to the podcast, be sure

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to give us a rating and a review.

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Speaker 5: It helps it spread.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's It's available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, onheartradio,

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or wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 5: The a building.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for raising the bar of journalism because

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this is what it's all about. It's about telling the

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entire story and not trying to stuff it into a

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two minute bit for the five pm news. Thank you

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be brilliant today YouTube.

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Speaker 5: Okay, absolutely