1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 1: Welcome to Spycraft, a podcast that tells gripping life and 2 00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: death spy stories and the amazing devices and operations that 3 00:00:14,119 --> 00:00:17,199 Speaker 1: made them possible. Now let's get started. 4 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,559 Speaker 2: Have you ever wondered what your furry friend is really thinking? Well, 5 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: let me introduce to you my new book, Dog Psychology 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,719 Speaker 2: by doctor Carlos Vasquez. As a psychology professor with over 7 00:00:34,759 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: ten years experience, I've unlocked the secrets of the canine psyche. 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: I will teach you how to understand your dog's body language, 9 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: to code their barks and wines, solved behavioral puzzles, and 10 00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:50,399 Speaker 2: strengthen your pond like never before. With Dog Psychology, you'll 11 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:53,359 Speaker 2: see the world through your dog's eyes. Don't just be 12 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:56,399 Speaker 2: a dog owner, become a dog whisperer. So go get 13 00:00:56,479 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: Dog Psychology by doctor Carlos Vasquez, available now on Kendle 14 00:01:00,679 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: or paperback on Amazon. We look at an interesting story today. 15 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:16,599 Speaker 2: Upcoming weeks we're going to have over a half a 16 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: dozen interviews that we've done with Special Forces. But today 17 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: we bring you this week an interesting story that I 18 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,159 Speaker 2: read about the Green Berets who parachuted with nuclear bombs 19 00:01:27,239 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: strapped to them for US Special operations personnel connecting high 20 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: altitude parachute jumps are pretty much par for the course, 21 00:01:35,079 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: But what about doing it with a nuclear bomb strapped 22 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: between your legs. Well, now you're on a different level. 23 00:01:41,879 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: But a US Army Special Forces paratrooper is pictured free 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,079 Speaker 2: falling during a training exercise with a special atomic demolition 25 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:54,359 Speaker 2: munition or say DM, a form of automatic demolition munition. 26 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:59,359 Speaker 2: Eight ms were man portable nuclear weapons, also known as 27 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: backpack nukes. These munitions were fitted into specifically or especially 28 00:02:03,519 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: designed hard cloth carrying cases for the transportation on the 29 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: backs or between the legs with special operators. The sadms 30 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 2: weighed in the region of about one hundred and fifty 31 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,039 Speaker 2: pounds with their warheads, the W fifty four contributing around 32 00:02:17,039 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: fifty to fifty five pounds. Saad ems were extremely small, 33 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: about twenty four inches long and about sixteen inches wide. 34 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 2: But why would a special operation personnel train with these? 35 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:29,039 Speaker 2: In order to unpack the question, we need to look 36 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,199 Speaker 2: back about seventy years. Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 37 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,039 Speaker 2: of nineteen forty five, well imparted a level of devastation 38 00:02:36,159 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: never before seen, and of course, a few years later, 39 00:02:39,439 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: the Soviet Union Dead named it his first atomic bomb 40 00:02:42,199 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty nine. While the US military conducted further 41 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:48,039 Speaker 2: tests of such weapons into the early part of the 42 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: Cold War, a broader view emerged the smaller nuclear weapons 43 00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 2: for limited tactical purposes would likely prove critical for operations 44 00:02:54,719 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: on the ground in future conflicts. Indeed, the idea of 45 00:02:59,039 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: using tactical nuclear weapons and a possible conflict involving the 46 00:03:02,439 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: Soviet Union became an important component of President Eisenhower's new look. 47 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,319 Speaker 2: As such, scientists and technicians at Los Alamos nuclear weapons 48 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: Laws began shrinking the size of the warheads. The US 49 00:03:14,199 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: Army was making news as well to acquire different sorts 50 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:22,879 Speaker 2: of battlefield nuclear weapons. Roy coil less guns which fired 51 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,719 Speaker 2: nuclear oreheads they call it the davy crocket which fired 52 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,039 Speaker 2: nuclear oriheads with a yield of roughly ten to twenty 53 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: tons of TNT, were part of the purchases. Part of 54 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,479 Speaker 2: the push towards fielding and broad a range of nukes 55 00:03:33,479 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: by the Army included the development of atomic demolition munitions. 56 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,719 Speaker 2: While we've been talking about the eight MS, they were 57 00:03:39,759 --> 00:03:42,479 Speaker 2: designed to be used on overlow the ground surface against 58 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,479 Speaker 2: specific targets to block and deny enemy forces. The initial 59 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,159 Speaker 2: objective of adms was to manage nuclear landscaping, creating great 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,879 Speaker 2: craters or destroying mountain sides that could obstruct enemy forces. 61 00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: The munitions first entered the US Army arsenal And around 62 00:03:57,879 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four, with one of the first EIGHTM tests 63 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:02,919 Speaker 2: taking place during Operation Teapot, part of a series of 64 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: nuclear tests conducted at the Nevada Test Site. During said tests, 65 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: an eight thousand pound eight AM with a yield of 66 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: one point two kilotones was detonated, creating a crater three 67 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: hundred feet wide and one hundred and twenty feet deep. 68 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:18,399 Speaker 2: A whole family of adms was developed, as included the 69 00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:22,639 Speaker 2: tactical ad atomic demolition munition sporting a W three W 70 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: W thirty warhead. The TDM TAADMS, weighed around eight hundred pounds, 71 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,959 Speaker 2: is a complete system and around three hundred produced between 72 00:04:33,079 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one and nineteen sixty six. Then they eventually 73 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 2: got to a much lighter version, man portable ADM. The 74 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,399 Speaker 2: Army ended up producing around three hundred sadms between sixty 75 00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: four to sixty six. Production on an interim W fifty 76 00:04:48,319 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: four Mod zero weapon started in April nineteen sixty three. 77 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,439 Speaker 2: At the heart of the SADM system was the W 78 00:04:56,519 --> 00:04:59,879 Speaker 2: fifty four tactical nuclear warhead with W fifty four was 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: developed in the late fifties by a man named Lawrence 80 00:05:03,079 --> 00:05:06,759 Speaker 2: Livermore National Laboratory onto early nineteen fifty nine and thereafter 81 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: by the Los Alamos National Lab. Compared to the heavier ones, 82 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,959 Speaker 2: the Army envisioned these lightweight saadms could more easily be 83 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 2: used tactically for operations behind enemy lines. In this sense, 84 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,319 Speaker 2: the munitions would be used to frustrate enemy forces by 85 00:05:24,319 --> 00:05:28,439 Speaker 2: blowing up fortified structures, tunnels, mountain passes, and viaducts. Along 86 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,319 Speaker 2: alongside the deployment via land or sea, sadms were also 87 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,519 Speaker 2: designed to be sent behind enemy lines from the air 88 00:05:34,959 --> 00:05:38,879 Speaker 2: with two man parachute teams. One individual carrying of the 89 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: disassembled weapon in a big bag made of canvas, will 90 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: descend the target points before setting up the device's explosive timer. 91 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:49,439 Speaker 2: Owing to the US's nuclear doctrine dictating that no single 92 00:05:49,439 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 2: person ever have the means to employ a nuclear weapon 93 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 2: on their own, teams of at least two would accompany 94 00:05:54,360 --> 00:06:00,399 Speaker 2: the bomb, so the detonation code would be split between 95 00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:03,639 Speaker 2: two special operators. The idea of using special forces known 96 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: as green Light units to transport these ad ms behind 97 00:06:07,439 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: enemy lines had stretched red roots, stretching back to nineteen 98 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: fifty six special ops units to harass and frustrate the 99 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: enemy with the purpose of their mission. It kind of 100 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:21,639 Speaker 2: coordinates with the historical origins of the special forces in 101 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,199 Speaker 2: the Army in the nineteen fifties. It was envisaged as 102 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: the elite units would stay behind in rear areas to 103 00:06:26,519 --> 00:06:30,959 Speaker 2: target enemy forces and even mobilize local resistance. However, the 104 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: early eighty ms were too large and heavy to be 105 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: carried by one man or two, and so the production 106 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,399 Speaker 2: of savms moved the concept along quickly. To be selected 107 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: for the green Lights was a rare and highly secret thing. 108 00:06:42,959 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 2: In a book written by Annie Jacobson's Surprise Kill Vanish 109 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 2: The Secret History of CIA Paramilitary Armies, Operators and Assassins, 110 00:06:50,399 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: green Lights personnels were pulled from Army Special Forces, Navy 111 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,319 Speaker 2: Seal units. In the Marines. Units worked under pseudonyms and 112 00:06:57,319 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 2: were fatigues with no markings exigned. Insignia training involved learning 113 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,399 Speaker 2: infiltration techniques including parachute launches and wet deck submarine launches. Overall, 114 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: the instruction of green Light units took a place over 115 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,279 Speaker 2: the course of a week, consisting eight to twelve hours 116 00:07:11,319 --> 00:07:17,079 Speaker 2: a day of training. Parachute missions involving sadms were performed 117 00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: over the sea as well as over land during the 118 00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:21,759 Speaker 2: sixties and seventies in order to train for their potential 119 00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: detonation overseas. In nineteen seventy two, green Line units parachuting 120 00:07:25,959 --> 00:07:29,439 Speaker 2: near the White Mountain National Forests in New Hampshire. The 121 00:07:29,519 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 2: nuclear weapons used was the training dummy. Navy seals also 122 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,879 Speaker 2: performed underwater training with them. Moreover, drills with the sad 123 00:07:36,959 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: ms also occurred outside the US and the Bavarian Alps. 124 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: Timing was everything. Billy Waugh, you probably heard of him, 125 00:07:44,399 --> 00:07:46,879 Speaker 2: recalls of his time with the green Lights and the 126 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: book Surprise Killing Vanished. You had to jump quickly. You 127 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: couldn't afford to be spread out when you landed on 128 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,319 Speaker 2: the ground. Indeed, the jumper's rigging was designed in such 129 00:07:53,319 --> 00:07:55,079 Speaker 2: a way that the nuclear component would fall to the 130 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,319 Speaker 2: end of the seventeen foot long lowering line once outside 131 00:07:59,319 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: of the aircraft. Once the SADM were fixed in place, 132 00:08:03,079 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: and that nation charges triggered, green Light personnel needed to 133 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: retreat to a safe location to avoid being caught in 134 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: the explosion. This would have been a difficult task given 135 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: that the timers could not be relied on for complete accuracy. 136 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: As Army field manuals from the time indicated, it was 137 00:08:17,399 --> 00:08:19,759 Speaker 2: not possible to state that SADM would fire at a 138 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: specific time. Furthermore, there was also the fact that green 139 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: light teams would also have had to make their way 140 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: out of enemy territory once the munition was detonated. According 141 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:31,959 Speaker 2: to Bill Flavin, who commanded a Special Forces SADA team 142 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: during the Cold War, there were real issues with the 143 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:38,759 Speaker 2: operational wisdom of the program. Sadms, in the long run, 144 00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: were never used in foreign soil during the Cold War. 145 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,519 Speaker 2: Those realities were thankfully never realized. That the US military 146 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,519 Speaker 2: was training Special Forces personnel to transport nuclear weapons personally 147 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,919 Speaker 2: behind enemy lines gained wider traction publicly in nineteen eighty 148 00:08:53,919 --> 00:08:56,879 Speaker 2: four thanks to an ex Army intelligence officer, William Markt, 149 00:08:56,879 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: and colleagues when they presented sketches and descriptions of the 150 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: mission or of the sabms. Really From there, the weapon 151 00:09:04,399 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: was slowly phased out and was officially retired in nineteen 152 00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:12,519 Speaker 2: eighty nine. So was it true that special forces jumped 153 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: out with nuclear weapons? Well, yes and no. They were 154 00:09:17,399 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: planned to do it. They never did it with an 155 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,639 Speaker 2: actual nuke, and they never did it on foreign soil. 156 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: But they were designing it to be that way, and 157 00:09:27,399 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: they had created a scenario for them to be able 158 00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:33,039 Speaker 2: to do it, but it never came through fruition. 159 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:34,799 Speaker 1: That's it for now.