Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and
Speaker 2: raid it, lip Star and me greatest on Yesterday and
Speaker 2: listening watching Lin always keep it Squatchy and now your
Speaker 2: hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 1: Good evening, Bobo, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: Most excellent sir? How are you?
Speaker 1: I am also most excellent, having a good day. I
Speaker 1: worked at the shop today, but I've got an exciting
Speaker 1: little bit of news for you. Bobes. Do you know
Speaker 1: who our guest is tonight? I think you do.
Speaker 3: Good Man from Ohio, that's right.
Speaker 1: The man like not just a capital T man like
Speaker 1: thhe capital the man in Ohio, the guy who kind
Speaker 1: of put Ohio on the map as a squatchy location.
Speaker 1: It is and always have. Our guest today is largely
Speaker 1: responsible for the public knowing about it instead of just
Speaker 1: the bigfoots. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is with extreme
Speaker 1: honor that I am bringing on Don Keating to our
Speaker 1: show tonight. Don thank you so much. If you could
Speaker 1: see me now, you'd realize I'm bowing to you. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show with us.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm humbled.
Speaker 1: We are humbled. We are humbled.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Don Hey Bobo.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the invitation to be on the show. I'm
Speaker 2: probably one of the most modest people that you ever meet,
Speaker 2: because I hear a lot of people will say things
Speaker 2: like what Cliff just said. And you know, when I
Speaker 2: started out back in nineteen eighty four, my opinion of
Speaker 2: myself and my hobby then is just the same then
Speaker 2: as it is now. I'm an ordinary person with an
Speaker 2: extraordinary hobby. And you know, I just tried to do
Speaker 2: what I thought was right and best to try and
Speaker 2: get some reports and information together from Ohio, Eastern Ohio
Speaker 2: in particular, because that's where I'm from. And one thing
Speaker 2: led to another, and I'm sure we'll talk about several
Speaker 2: of those things this evening.
Speaker 3: It led the money Maker going back to Ohio.
Speaker 2: It did. Yeah. I was just telling Cliff beforehand that
Speaker 2: one of the first correspondences I got from him was
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five, and it was a matrix printer
Speaker 2: printed letter that was sent in the mail. It was
Speaker 2: even before we really got into the email and heavy
Speaker 2: and I met Matt several times here in Eastern Ohio,
Speaker 2: and he came down a few times and we went
Speaker 2: out to the woods together and talked about several things.
Speaker 2: So I knew Matt way back when when he was
Speaker 2: just getting started here in Ohio and he was residing
Speaker 2: up in the Akron area. And myself and another fellow
Speaker 2: by name Matt Hesson went to Bolivar one evening along
Speaker 2: I seventy seven at the Stark Tuscaroras County line, and
Speaker 2: that's the first time I had met Matt Moneymaker in person,
Speaker 2: and we talked with him, and he said, look, I
Speaker 2: want to try and get some reports flowing from this
Speaker 2: part of Ohio because as a parent that there are
Speaker 2: a lot of things going on here, and it's rich
Speaker 2: in folklore, and it's rich in reports that have happened
Speaker 2: not only in the recent past, but in the distant past.
Speaker 2: So he brought some bumper stickers down that had two
Speaker 2: phone numbers on it. One of them was for Matt
Speaker 2: Moneymaker and one of them was for this fellow by
Speaker 2: name is Matt Hesson. And that's how we started getting
Speaker 2: the ball rolling here in eastern Ohio and northeastern Ohio
Speaker 2: thanks to Matt Moneymaker. By getting those bumper stickers out there,
Speaker 2: and that's how people started just contacting one of the
Speaker 2: two numbers and getting the information flowing.
Speaker 1: Was that guy at the he's the guy at the
Speaker 1: Ohio conference that comes every year with the big like
Speaker 1: black cowboy hat. Is that that dude? And there you go,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, Yeah, yeah, he's a good guy. I talk
Speaker 1: to him every year. I didn't know. I didn't ever
Speaker 1: put the name together though, a few years ago. He
Speaker 1: gave me one of those bumper stickers and I wish
Speaker 1: I still had it, but he gave me one of
Speaker 1: the bumper stickers to give to Matt Moneymaker, saying that
Speaker 1: Matt says hello. And when I gave it to Matt,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know that. I didn't know this little
Speaker 1: bit of history that you just dropped on us. By
Speaker 1: the way, that's kind of new to me. But when
Speaker 1: I gave it to money Maker, like you should have
Speaker 1: seen his eyes, it was like Christmas. He goes, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, and that very oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: look at that, you know, during Matt money Maker's sort
Speaker 1: of way, and I could just tell that it brought
Speaker 1: him such pleasure to see that. So now now I
Speaker 1: know a little bit more about why it was so
Speaker 1: pleasurable for him to see that. That's cool.
Speaker 2: I'm sure. I'm sure that the flashbacks happened immediately because
Speaker 2: that was I think it was during the spring of
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, and you know, that was a few
Speaker 2: years ago and very interesting, a lot of.
Speaker 1: History, a lot of history. So that was the first
Speaker 1: time you encountered money maker. Was he as just as
Speaker 1: intense as he as he is today back then?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I believe. So. He was very adamant about
Speaker 2: getting the bumper stickers distributed. He was adamant about getting
Speaker 2: some phone calls. As you know, if we knew something
Speaker 2: had come in, he wanted to know about it right
Speaker 2: away so we could get out into the field together
Speaker 2: and investigate things. He was very intense about it then
Speaker 2: and as he is now, and I still see the
Speaker 2: fire and the get go in his eyes. When I
Speaker 2: seen him here in Ohio last month, he was just
Speaker 2: the same person, except twenty seven years older that he
Speaker 2: was back then. You know, he's he's still got to
Speaker 2: get up and go, and I got to get give
Speaker 2: him kudos for that. A lot of people who he's
Speaker 2: been into it this long would just give up by now.
Speaker 3: But not him.
Speaker 2: I think he's just as as adamant about going after it,
Speaker 2: if not more so now than what he was then.
Speaker 3: Adam. That's a good word from that.
Speaker 1: It really is. Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you he's a
Speaker 1: fiery soul to say the least. Well, enough about Matt,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll talk about we'll get into him and
Speaker 1: maybe as we go through the chronology of a Bigfoot
Speaker 1: in Ohio here. But am I right in thinking? Have
Speaker 1: it in my head that you started your whole journey
Speaker 1: in this subject in like nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 2: I wrote an article for the Newcomerstown News in nineteen.
Speaker 1: Eighty eighty, so before that. But if you wrote it,
Speaker 1: if you wrote an article in nineteen eighty, you must
Speaker 1: have been interested before that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It kind of goes back to the late seventies. Actually,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't really consider it the official beginning
Speaker 2: of my fascination with the phenomena, but it started back
Speaker 2: in the late seventies. And I'll tell you hell or hew,
Speaker 2: and that was when our family went to the local
Speaker 2: drive in the theater to see a movie, of all things,
Speaker 2: the Legend of Volge Creek, and that film just scared
Speaker 2: to be Jesus out of me because of you know,
Speaker 2: the thing trying to get into the door of the house.
Speaker 2: And you know, after knowing Smokey for as long as
Speaker 2: I did and talking to him and reading his book
Speaker 2: after a while, some of this stuff, you know, might
Speaker 2: have been kind of exaggerated in the film as compared
Speaker 2: to what actually happened. But that's how I officially got
Speaker 2: the interest. And you know, it led, one thing led
Speaker 2: to another. It was kind of on and off. I
Speaker 2: graduated high school in nineteen eighty one, and when I
Speaker 2: graduated school in eighty one, my fascination was meteorology. I
Speaker 2: could cared less about cryptozoological stuff, and I wanted to
Speaker 2: become a TV weather guy. And one thing, you know,
Speaker 2: they say, life is life is made up of a
Speaker 2: few intersections in the highway and the highway one of
Speaker 2: the intersections was when our family had an unusual encounter
Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy six, and I went to the
Speaker 2: local library in nineteen eighty four to see if I
Speaker 2: could find a book about UFOs, to see if I
Speaker 2: could find something that looks similar to what we had
Speaker 2: seen in nineteen seventy six. I didn't find anything, so
Speaker 2: I thought, well, hey, here's an interesting looking book, and
Speaker 2: it was The Sasquash The Gaps among Us by John Green,
Speaker 2: and that's when I really started getting heavy into it.
Speaker 2: But as far as my official, you know, really getting
Speaker 2: into it would have been nineteen eighty when I wrote
Speaker 2: the article for the Newcomberstown News about strange incidents that
Speaker 2: had been taking place in the an area known as
Speaker 2: Lake Llah four miles west of here.
Speaker 1: We don't wan a side note about that legend of
Speaker 1: Boggy CREEKDN. You know, Bobo and I met the actor
Speaker 1: who played the guy with the arm coming through the
Speaker 1: wall and stuff like that, you know, the legend of
Speaker 1: Boggie Creek with an arm coming through the window. We
Speaker 1: met through the door. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we met that guy.
Speaker 1: He was just an actor, of course. But I'll tell
Speaker 1: you that scene that affected you also affected me in
Speaker 1: such a way that, honestly, I'm not a proud man.
Speaker 1: And all nobody listens this podcast so I can say this,
Speaker 1: but I teared up when I met that guy because
Speaker 1: of such a huge the role he played in my life.
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe I had the honor of meeting him,
Speaker 1: and I believe he's passed away now too, I remember, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a very interesting, very interesting part of
Speaker 2: the movie.
Speaker 1: It scared the hell out of me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well me and you both exactly. Yes, So yeah,
Speaker 2: there you have it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you wrote this article in about nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: or something like that, and do you remember your very
Speaker 1: first maybe witness that you spoke to.
Speaker 2: As far as actual sidings are concerned, I spoke to
Speaker 2: three of them. They were teenage boys from Newcomers Town.
Speaker 2: I found out about this encounter as a result of
Speaker 2: a newspaper article written on August twenty fourth or twenty
Speaker 2: eighth of nineteen eighty four from the Newcomerstown News. There
Speaker 2: were three boys that were down on the south side
Speaker 2: of the Tuscaroas River, which runs along the southern part
Speaker 2: of town, down at a substation, a power substation, and
Speaker 2: they were just being typical teenage boys walking around having
Speaker 2: a good time in late April, as spring was in
Speaker 2: the air, and they were walking this trail and they
Speaker 2: turned a corner in the trail and ahead of them,
Speaker 2: standing beside a tree was what they described as a
Speaker 2: seven to eight foot tall, dark brown to black hair
Speaker 2: covered creature on two legs. Standing there pulling leaves or
Speaker 2: something to that effect off of a tree and eating them.
Speaker 2: They looked at each other and didn't know what it was,
Speaker 2: and they turned around and they high tailed it all
Speaker 2: the way back to the bridge that they had to
Speaker 2: cross to cross the river, which was about a mile.
Speaker 2: I spoke to those boys individually and as a group.
Speaker 2: I'm thoroughly convinced that they believe they seen what they
Speaker 2: seen that day. One of the boys' skeptical fathers, he
Speaker 2: went down to the location with him to show him
Speaker 2: where it was at, and they found a large human
Speaker 2: like footprint near that tree. And the father told the boy,
Speaker 2: he said, do not come back here again, because you
Speaker 2: don't know what you're dealing with. Those are the first
Speaker 2: three people that I actually spoke to that claim to
Speaker 2: have ever seen anything in the Newcomers Town area or
Speaker 2: anywhere else as far as ask concern.
Speaker 1: Now, since that time, that's pretty old sighting at this point.
Speaker 1: Since that time, I'm assuming I think it's a safe assumption,
Speaker 1: perhaps that you have followed up on other reports, say
Speaker 1: within five or ten miles of that location.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've followed up on numerous reports from here from
Speaker 2: within five or ten miles of here, the numbers could
Speaker 2: easily be into the dozens. Yeah, because newcomers town. If
Speaker 2: people don't know, it's in east central Ohio. It's on
Speaker 2: the foothills of the Alleghanies southwestern Tuscaroras County. Not too
Speaker 2: far from here in Coshocton County is what they call
Speaker 2: the Woodbury Wildlife Area. That area is around twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand acres ten to fifteen miles as the crow flies.
Speaker 2: South of there, along the southern parts of Coshocton northern
Speaker 2: Muskingham County, along the Wills Creek area, there is what
Speaker 2: they call the AEP cool Lands, the American Electric Power
Speaker 2: cool Lands. It's old mining territory that they've reclaimed and
Speaker 2: it's now considered public hunting, fishing, and hiking. All you
Speaker 2: have to have to have is a lifetime permit to
Speaker 2: be out there in common sense, of course, and that
Speaker 2: area out there has tens of thousands of acres not
Speaker 2: only of woodlands, but of waterways. Those areas are within
Speaker 2: twenty five miles of me, both of them, and to
Speaker 2: assume that there would be nothing out there would be
Speaker 2: absolutely ridiculous because a lot of the high walls that
Speaker 2: were left behind from the old mining days and the
Speaker 2: AEP cool lands. I refer to them as looking at
Speaker 2: the miniature Grand Canyon. They're between anywhere between forty and
Speaker 2: one hundred feet high, and they are a spectacular site
Speaker 2: when you find them. And the area is very wild.
Speaker 2: If there have been reports of mountain lion, black bear, coyote,
Speaker 2: I mean just about any kind of wild animal that
Speaker 2: you don't think would be in this area has been
Speaker 2: seen in that area.
Speaker 1: And of course just tons and tons of deer. And
Speaker 1: are there any elk in Ohio? I know there's some
Speaker 1: down in Kentucky, which isn't too far, I guess, But
Speaker 1: I mean I've never heard of anything in the Ohio
Speaker 1: or their elk up there.
Speaker 2: I don't believe, so I'm not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's one of the things here i'd like.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously live in Oregon, so a lot of
Speaker 1: people come into the shop and stuff. They start asking
Speaker 1: questions about good bigfoot spots, and I try to bring
Speaker 1: up Ohio because Ohio just has a ton of stuff
Speaker 1: thanks for the thanks to the diligent researchers who live
Speaker 1: in that state. A lot of stuff is publicly available
Speaker 1: from Ohio. But West Coasters don't really think much about Ohio.
Speaker 1: They think it's all like plains or something like that,
Speaker 1: you know, like the east or the western part of
Speaker 1: the state rather, But eastern Ohio is extraordinarily wooded and rough,
Speaker 1: and there's huge patches of woods. It's fantastic habitat for
Speaker 1: these sort of things.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny you mentioned that about the West
Speaker 2: Coasters not knowing about Ohio. One of the reasons that
Speaker 2: I started inviting people out here to my public meeting
Speaker 2: to speak from the West Coast was specifically not only
Speaker 2: to entertain the audience that showed up at that meeting
Speaker 2: that night, but it was to show the West Coast
Speaker 2: researchers that indeed Ohio had what was available for any
Speaker 2: large wild animal to exist. We weren't Columbus, Cincinnati and
Speaker 2: Cleveland only.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It wasn't just large cities and flat rolling hills that
Speaker 2: gave way to cornfields. It was you know, we're on
Speaker 2: the foothills of the Allegheny Mountains here, and if you
Speaker 2: fly in a single engine airplane just a thousand feet
Speaker 2: above ground level, it's remarkable how far to the east
Speaker 2: you can see and if you go just a little
Speaker 2: further than that, I mean, you really start getting into
Speaker 2: the rolling mountains in southwestern Pennsylvania. And like I say,
Speaker 2: that's just that's one of the reasons that I started inviting.
Speaker 2: I think the first person that I had out here
Speaker 2: to speak at a regular meeting was Ray Crow, and
Speaker 2: then the first person I had to speak at one
Speaker 2: of the conferences from the West Coast was Jeff Meldrum.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages.
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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about your meetings, because those meetings acted
Speaker 1: as almost like a seed for this for something that
Speaker 1: would grow almost out of control to present day. But
Speaker 1: it really started with these small meetings that she used
Speaker 1: to hold. So tell us about the genesis of those.
Speaker 2: Well, back in nineteen eighty four, there was a FOLLO
Speaker 2: about the name of Tom Archer, who lived in Rentaldsburg, Ohio,
Speaker 2: and he was the first person that contacted me. I
Speaker 2: should go back a little bit and say the newspaper
Speaker 2: article that alerted me about the siding of the three
Speaker 2: boys on the south side of town. I sent that
Speaker 2: article to John Green. As a result, John Green sent
Speaker 2: that article to Tom Archer. So would jump ahead regarding
Speaker 2: the meetings. Tom Arsher says to me, He says, Hey,
Speaker 2: you know what, we could have a meeting here. There's
Speaker 2: a meeting at Alliance, Ohio called the Tri County UFO
Speaker 2: Study Group, and they hold a meeting once every month
Speaker 2: and people that have claimed to have seen UFOs or
Speaker 2: abductions or whatever they go to that meeting. He said,
Speaker 2: if you want to, we can go up there and
Speaker 2: see how things go. So in October of eighty four,
Speaker 2: myself and Tom went up to Alliance Ohio. We met
Speaker 2: with the chairman and co chairman Jim rast ed Or
Speaker 2: and Paul Rozick. We were very impressed on how they
Speaker 2: handled their organization, how the meetings went, and we were
Speaker 2: shocked at how many people came forward just at that
Speaker 2: meeting to tell about UFO sidtings. So the seed was planted.
Speaker 2: That's what happened in my mind that I started thinking,
Speaker 2: why don't we do something like that? So in July
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty five we were to hold just a
Speaker 2: one time event, and it was on July thirteenth of
Speaker 2: eighty five. I held a meeting and I wanted people
Speaker 2: to come forward who might have seen something that resembled
Speaker 2: a sasquatch. And I contacted some people that I knew
Speaker 2: in the media in the newspaper and Tom and I figured, well,
Speaker 2: we'll have five or ten people show up. Nope, we
Speaker 2: had thirty two people show up at that first meeting,
Speaker 2: which was mind blowing to me. And we just we
Speaker 2: got so many reports, We got one or two new reports,
Speaker 2: and we got so many historical reports that after the
Speaker 2: meeting we said, hey, this was very successful, why don't
Speaker 2: we do this again next month? And see if we
Speaker 2: can get more people out of the woodwork, so to speak.
Speaker 2: In August of eighty five we had fifty six people.
Speaker 2: Between August and September we discovered the first possible footprints,
Speaker 2: no more than five miles from my front door, on
Speaker 2: the south side of Newcomers Town and in the same
Speaker 2: area that those three teenage boys had their encounter a
Speaker 2: year and a half prior to that. One thing just
Speaker 2: led to another, and it was amazing on how things
Speaker 2: just jewed together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you were like in on the ground
Speaker 1: floor of something that was completely unexplored at the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was, And believe me, I heard my share of
Speaker 2: people driving up and down the road yelling hey bigfoot
Speaker 2: or making grunning noises out their car window as they
Speaker 2: drove past. And amazingly, now thirty years later, those people
Speaker 2: don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Somewhat vindicated, I think. Yeah. Yeah, And so you
Speaker 1: said first, the first person you led out to speak
Speaker 1: was Ray Crow, of course, which is the president of
Speaker 1: the Western Big for Society. He did the track record
Speaker 1: for all those many years. I think Bobo and I
Speaker 1: were both members of that as well. Got the weekly
Speaker 1: newsletter or the monthly newsletter. Rather yeah, good times. What
Speaker 1: are some of the other luminaries that you invited and
Speaker 1: successfully lured out to Ohio?
Speaker 2: Oh boy, Larry Lund.
Speaker 1: Huge here of mine, huge, here of mine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, very good fella, John Green. And I didn't lure
Speaker 2: him out here. I can't take credit for that, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: but he did speak at the meeting. What happened was
Speaker 2: he was going to be speaking at the IX Outdoor
Speaker 2: Center in Cleveland, Ohio, in January of nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 2: and he contacted me and said, Hey, I'm going to
Speaker 2: be in Ohio. Would you be open to meet face
Speaker 2: to face? And I said absolutely, And I'm going to
Speaker 2: be happening to have a meeting that same weekend. You're
Speaker 2: going to be in Ohio. Would you be willing to
Speaker 2: do me the pleasure of speaking at that meeting? And
Speaker 2: he said, well, of course. And that was in January
Speaker 2: of eighty nine. And I still have that recording to
Speaker 2: this day on videotape of him talking at that meeting.
Speaker 2: Folks just loved seeing him. They picked his brain for
Speaker 2: like an hour and a half when he was here.
Speaker 2: John Green, I mean, there's so many of them. Tony
Speaker 2: Healy from Australia was at my conference, and I believe
Speaker 2: it was two thousand and five, two thousand and seven
Speaker 2: to one of the two. There's so many of them.
Speaker 2: I just sometimes the year has just been together.
Speaker 1: Well, how about Renee to Hindon? Did you ever meet him?
Speaker 2: I met Renee, but unfortunately I didn't get him out
Speaker 2: here to speak.
Speaker 1: Okay, what was it? What were his thoughts on big
Speaker 1: Foot in Ohio? He's a crotchy old jerk sometimes, but
Speaker 1: I understand a very very sweet man. I never had
Speaker 1: a chance to meet him. But you never met Renee none.
Speaker 1: I never met Renee. I know his son, but I
Speaker 1: never met Renee.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I got Renee stories like you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 2: Well Ley went on, oh wow, Okay. In nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 2: I was invited to speak at the Sasquatched Symposium in Vancouver,
Speaker 2: BC by Stephen Harvey. I had known Renee for several
Speaker 2: years already, and Renee was going to be at that symposium. Well,
Speaker 2: Renee kind of lashed on us because he wanted to
Speaker 2: meet these Midwestern guys, you know that came out here
Speaker 2: all the way from Ohio and Indiana and Pennsylvania or wherever.
Speaker 2: We were walking around downtown Vancouver and we went to
Speaker 2: grab some pizza, which was really great pizza. By the way,
Speaker 2: I can't think of what the name of the pizza
Speaker 2: shop was. But we're walking down the street and I'm
Speaker 2: not even going to try to imitate Rene's voice, because
Speaker 2: you know, you had that classic voice. But he says, okay,
Speaker 2: he says, so where do you think they go during
Speaker 2: the winter. I'm like, if I knew that, I would
Speaker 2: have found one by now. Renee. I said, maybe they
Speaker 2: hop on an Amtrak and go to Florida. I have
Speaker 2: no idea. He said, no, Seriously, where do you think
Speaker 2: they go during the winter? I said, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I've given that some thought. We don't find hardly any
Speaker 2: tracks in the snow. But my opinion is this, if
Speaker 2: you go out to the woods and you've got half
Speaker 2: a foot or a foot of snow on the ground,
Speaker 2: or whatever the case may be, and you find a
Speaker 2: large group of pine trees, do yourself a favor. Get
Speaker 2: yourself underneath that group of pine trees where there's no
Speaker 2: snow on the ground. It's all on the branches on
Speaker 2: the outside of the forest. Notice how much the wind
Speaker 2: is cut off. Notice how much warmer it is under
Speaker 2: that group of pine trees as compared to what is
Speaker 2: being bore in the elements. That's where I think they
Speaker 2: go during the winter. At times, they go down underneath
Speaker 2: the pine trees where nobody's going to go, nobody's going
Speaker 2: to think of looking, And you know it's much warmer.
Speaker 2: It's a natural wind to break. But you know, when
Speaker 2: they would call me up and he would say, hey, Keating,
Speaker 2: I know you had a conference last weekend, and I
Speaker 2: know you had such and such a speaker. Okay, I'd
Speaker 2: like to know what that speaker was talking about at
Speaker 2: your conference. I said, well, Renee, I can tell you now.
Speaker 2: He said, no, no, no, I know your videotaped your conferences too.
Speaker 2: He says, what do you want for a copy of
Speaker 2: the video? I said, gee, I don't know, Renee. I'll
Speaker 2: send you a copy of the video, and then when
Speaker 2: you get it, you let me know what you think
Speaker 2: it's worth, and you can send me a couple bucks.
Speaker 2: I don't care, so I said one in particular. He
Speaker 2: was dying to know what this speaker had talked about.
Speaker 2: And about two weeks later, I get a package in
Speaker 2: the mail. I'm like, uh oh, he's probably sent the
Speaker 2: video tape back. He's been out of shape, as I'll
Speaker 2: get out. I don't know what I did to make
Speaker 2: him upset, but let's see what's in the envelope. So
Speaker 2: I get the envelope, I open it up and I
Speaker 2: am shocked. He sent me a book. Not only was
Speaker 2: it a book, it was a hardcover book of his
Speaker 2: first book that he had written. The hardcover book had
Speaker 2: the yellow dusk jacket cover on it. And I have
Speaker 2: never seen that book again. I know, I know Lund
Speaker 2: has a copy of it. I'm pretty sure he does.
Speaker 2: But he inscribed it to me, and I was like,
Speaker 2: so I call him up. I said, Renay, okay, I
Speaker 2: really appreciate the book, but how much to owe you
Speaker 2: for it? He said, what do you mean? I said,
Speaker 2: you sent me a copy of the book. You know
Speaker 2: I've got to pay you for it. I'm sure it
Speaker 2: wasn't free to publish it. He said, no, you sent
Speaker 2: me the videotape. I really enjoyed the video tape. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm sending you a gift as an exchange for the
Speaker 2: Is that enough? And I said, are you kidding? That
Speaker 2: book still sits on my bookshelf too today, and I
Speaker 2: only looked at it a couple of times because I
Speaker 2: had read the original softcover book.
Speaker 1: How can you get rid of something that's priceless?
Speaker 2: You don't. You don't get rid of something that's priceless.
Speaker 2: Another priceless item I have on my bookshelf as an
Speaker 2: original from John Green Apes among Us some way or another.
Speaker 2: The first one that I ordered off of it was lost.
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened to it. Maybe it grew
Speaker 2: two legs and walked away. I don't have any idea.
Speaker 2: But John, I asked him one day on the phone.
Speaker 2: I said, John, do you have any more original copies
Speaker 2: of Apes among his hardcover? He said yeah. I said
Speaker 2: how much do you want? He said, well, I'll send
Speaker 2: you a copy and then get back to me and
Speaker 2: let let me. You know, I'll tell you how much
Speaker 2: I want. So I okay. He sends it to me.
Speaker 2: There's things in mint condition. It's only been opened a
Speaker 2: couple of times. He's inscribed it to me, and so
Speaker 2: on and so on. I call him up, John, how
Speaker 2: much owe you for the book?
Speaker 4: All?
Speaker 2: Nothing considered a gift? You know? You don't? How can
Speaker 2: you like? You said, there's no way of putting a
Speaker 2: price on stuff like that. That's stuff that will just
Speaker 2: sit on my bookshelves and be near and dear to
Speaker 2: my heart forever because I was I was lucky enough
Speaker 2: to know these guys and lucky enough to befriend them.
Speaker 2: I was at John Green's place for four days and
Speaker 2: three nights in nineteen ninety seven when we went out
Speaker 2: there to go to the ninety seven symposium in Vancouver.
Speaker 2: He allowed us myself Dewerth Chuck's story on John Horgan.
Speaker 2: Him and his wife allowed us to stay in their
Speaker 2: house because they had built this house specifically for when
Speaker 2: they had guests in town that were bigfooters, for them
Speaker 2: to have a place to stay instead of spending money
Speaker 2: on a motel. That's the kind of guy John Green was.
Speaker 1: We probably didn't want you guys in the real house,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But he looks at he says, okay, and he
Speaker 2: opens two closet doors and he says, you see those drawers.
Speaker 2: You can open those drawers and you can look at
Speaker 2: those plaster casts, but don't you dare break them. And
Speaker 2: he walks over, walks over to his desk and he
Speaker 2: pulls out this filing cabinet and they're his index cards,
Speaker 2: one holder after another after another. And he said, as
Speaker 2: you can thumb through all these that you want, take
Speaker 2: a look at him, make notes, just don't get them
Speaker 2: out of order, and make sure you put them back
Speaker 2: when you're done with them.
Speaker 1: That right, there is a priceless experience that can never
Speaker 1: be duplicated. And you know that just to say that
Speaker 1: you're the envy of thousands of bigfooters, you know, just
Speaker 1: unbelievable opportunities that where you were afforded.
Speaker 2: It was, it was great, It was great. But other
Speaker 2: people that I've had at the conference, you know, Igor
Speaker 2: Birshcheff was there one time and he spoke Crow was
Speaker 2: there at the conference and he spoke. Bob Gimlin. How
Speaker 2: in the world tick forget? Bob Gimlin spoke at my
Speaker 2: conference in twenty ten or eleven, I think it was
Speaker 2: twenty ten.
Speaker 1: You ever meet Krantz?
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: I met him at the Vancouver BC event, And that
Speaker 2: leads to another story. He's outside smoking a cigarette, typical
Speaker 2: grover and I walked up to him and it was
Speaker 2: just me because there was somebody else inside speaking, and
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't you know, I want to
Speaker 2: go outside and get some fresh air. So I'm like, Hi, Don, Grover,
Speaker 2: good Don, how are you fine? So let me ask
Speaker 2: you a question. What will it honestly take to prove
Speaker 2: sasquatch exists? Because I'm of the opinion that you don't
Speaker 2: think videotape will do it. He said, no, I don't
Speaker 2: think it will. He said, here's what happens if you're
Speaker 2: lucky enough to run across a dead one in the forest.
Speaker 2: And this is what he told me. He said, if
Speaker 2: you're able to, you take the hands, you take the feet,
Speaker 2: you take the head, and you get the heck out
Speaker 2: of there. And he said, because you get the heck
Speaker 2: out of there, because where there's a dead one, there's
Speaker 2: probably a pretty good chance there's a live one in
Speaker 2: close proximity. And it's going to be a little upset
Speaker 2: saying what you're doing to, you know, the one that's
Speaker 2: laying on the forest floor. That's what Grover told me,
Speaker 2: he said, that's what it will take to prove the
Speaker 2: existence of sasquatch to the scientific community.
Speaker 1: Dead one or a big piece of a dead one.
Speaker 2: Right, yep, I've still got the eight by ten photo
Speaker 2: of Groves and I was standing beside the building in Vancouver,
Speaker 2: BC in nineteen eighty nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: Oh, man, I need to go to your house. Don
Speaker 1: you have treasures I want to put my eyes on.
Speaker 2: I've got a lot of stuff stored away in storage boxes.
Speaker 2: I've got so much stuff. It's just you know, Robert
Speaker 2: Michael Pile. Uh, pictures of myself and John Green and
Speaker 2: John's front yard of a mountain in the background. Uh,
Speaker 2: myself and Peter Burn. You know. I was lucky enough
Speaker 2: to meet the four original horsemen, so to speak, very fortunate.
Speaker 3: That, you know.
Speaker 2: I could feel as if I could talk to them
Speaker 2: about anything that was on my mind. And it was
Speaker 2: no holds borrowed. I told him, I said, tell me
Speaker 2: what you really think. You know. Of course, Rene he
Speaker 2: had no problem with that.
Speaker 1: I don't think he ran in any other gear than
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So it was I was very fortunate to have gotten
Speaker 2: into the game, so to speak, when I did, and
Speaker 2: to have met these people that I did. Bob Tipmos,
Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to meet him because he
Speaker 2: was in ill health when we were there in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety seven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he died that year.
Speaker 2: Yeah he did. Jack Lapseratis met him.
Speaker 1: Oh he's still around. He's live and kicking somewhere up
Speaker 1: in Washington. I think I wondered about that the other day.
Speaker 1: In fact, I wasn't quite sure.
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's you know, that's a long answer to
Speaker 2: your short question. As far as that goes. I don't
Speaker 2: want to continue name dropping because I bore people.
Speaker 1: Oh I love this stuff. I love this stuff because
Speaker 1: I haven't met some of those people. And obviously everybody
Speaker 1: you mentioned has influenced me in some way or another,
Speaker 1: even laps Ritis, who I've never met. I'd love to
Speaker 1: meet that guy, even though I don't necessarily agree with
Speaker 1: his views on sasquatches. I don't care what people think.
Speaker 1: I don't care. I'd love to meet him. So I
Speaker 1: was kind of hoping to run across him at some point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: big footing is like this this vehicle that brings you
Speaker 1: to treasured memories and gifts that you're going to look
Speaker 1: back upon in our old aide and say, well, that
Speaker 1: was really cool, and that wouldn't have happened unless I
Speaker 1: was doing this weird thing that everybody was making fun
Speaker 1: of me about.
Speaker 2: Right exactly, you know, there's some good memories, there are
Speaker 2: some not so good memories. I can look back on
Speaker 2: it now and if somebody asked me, well, what would
Speaker 2: you do different? This is an honest answer, what would
Speaker 2: I do different? I wouldn't have done it. I would
Speaker 2: not have gotten involved, period. I mean, that's easy to say.
Speaker 2: Hindsight is twenty twenty. But and people ask me if
Speaker 2: I give a talk or something like that somewhere, They say, well,
Speaker 2: if I'm interested in getting involved in the research, what
Speaker 2: kind of advice do you have for me? And I
Speaker 2: look at them straight faced because I'm serious, and I
Speaker 2: say my advice to you would be don't do it,
Speaker 2: plain and simple, don't do it because it's going to
Speaker 2: save you a lot of headache, it's going to save
Speaker 2: you a lot of money, it's going to save you
Speaker 2: a lot of ridicule.
Speaker 1: But in the words of Gibbee from The Butthole Surfers,
Speaker 1: he said, it's better to regret something you have done
Speaker 1: than something you haven't done. So at least you're on
Speaker 1: the right side of that one, right.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't have met people like yourself. You know,
Speaker 2: there's just so many people that I've met that I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have met as a result of doing it. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I guess it's kind of a two sided
Speaker 2: a coin heads and tails. There's some days I regret
Speaker 2: doing it, and there's other days I say, well, that
Speaker 2: wasn't such a bad run. You know.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages. Well, let's talk
Speaker 1: about some of your field work. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know if a lot of people know this, but you
Speaker 1: may have filmed one of these things at one time
Speaker 1: and you can see that video. If people are interested,
Speaker 1: you can just do a Google search don Keating Bigfoot
Speaker 1: film or something like that, because it was featured on
Speaker 1: a Monster Quest episode Doug Hicheck's thing back in the day. Now,
Speaker 1: I know there's some we could probably do a three
Speaker 1: hour show with you, and we're not going to do that,
Speaker 1: but we do need to talk about the film a
Speaker 1: little bit. Can What can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety three, I did a six or seven
Speaker 2: minute piece for WUAB Channel forty three news out of Cleveland.
Speaker 2: They came down, they did a lot of field videography.
Speaker 2: Jack Marshall was the reporter, good friend of mine now
Speaker 2: And as a result of that nineteen ninety three news piece,
Speaker 2: what happened was in ninety three later in the year,
Speaker 2: in December of ninety three, frigid, cool temperatures outside. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, really cool, and I'm like, I want to
Speaker 2: watch some video, nothing else to do. So as a result,
Speaker 2: I pick up a videotape off the shelf that I
Speaker 2: had with videotapes on it, obviously, and I start watching
Speaker 2: it from August ninety two, and I watched this interview
Speaker 2: that I did with this very colorful individual whom was
Speaker 2: very adamant that he had seen sasquatch creatures along County
Speaker 2: Road in Coshocton County numerous times. Underscore the word numerous.
Speaker 2: So I watched this interview with him. And after I
Speaker 2: watched the interview, I thought, well, I just keep the
Speaker 2: video rolling, not doing anything else.
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 2: So it comes to a video of August second, nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety two, and what I did was I was shooting
Speaker 2: footage of what we have nicknamed Sasquash Lake. It's not
Speaker 2: officially called that, but we called it Sasquashed Lake. I
Speaker 2: was shooting video of that lake. And I didn't like
Speaker 2: the position that I was shooting, so I thought, well,
Speaker 2: reposition myself. I've got a gold Star eight to one
Speaker 2: zoom VHS camquorder on my shoulder, my right shoulder, still filming.
Speaker 2: Didn't pause it. I'm still filming. I walk away from
Speaker 2: the lake, take several steps, stop for a second or two,
Speaker 2: and then I swing back around and shoot some more footage.
Speaker 2: That leads us up to December of ninety three, because
Speaker 2: I didn't watch that film footage the day that I
Speaker 2: shot it. In fact, I don't watch that film footage
Speaker 2: for seventeen and a half months, and so I'm watching
Speaker 2: this video and I'm still to today. You watched a
Speaker 2: video and you see this thing walking down the road,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, who was that? So I watch it
Speaker 2: again and again and again, and one thing led to another.
Speaker 2: We went out there numerous times, countless times. Daniel Perez
Speaker 2: went out there with me, and I believe it was
Speaker 2: August or September of nineteen ninety five. We did some
Speaker 2: very in depth investigations as far as the height of
Speaker 2: the bushes in the background, how far away I was
Speaker 2: from the road, how wide the road was approximately, how
Speaker 2: much ground this thing covered walking down this gravel road
Speaker 2: in the very brief time that you see it on video,
Speaker 2: as near as we could tell. Here are some statistics.
Speaker 2: It's on video tape for one point five seconds, one
Speaker 2: point five to five seconds. It's between two hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty two and two hundred and ninety two feet away
Speaker 2: from me. Where I'm standing as compared to where it
Speaker 2: was at is up a bit of an incline to
Speaker 2: where the road is. It levels off and then the
Speaker 2: road drops off just a hair behind where the peak
Speaker 2: of the hill is the little hill that I'm standing
Speaker 2: near the bottom of, and it's not really a hill,
Speaker 2: which is flat land that tapers off down toward the lake.
Speaker 2: It covered twenty eight feet give or tape, twenty eight
Speaker 2: feet and four steps in two seconds.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: That is mind boggling in and of itself. And there
Speaker 2: are four fence posts between me and it, whatever it is.
Speaker 2: So we measured the fence post and from the ground up,
Speaker 2: these fence posts are forty eight and forty nine inches high.
Speaker 2: This thing as it walks down the road, and we
Speaker 2: think it's on the far side of the road, and
Speaker 2: now I'll tell you why in a minute. As it
Speaker 2: walks down. It's waste. It's waste. What appears to be
Speaker 2: the waste of this thing is higher than what the
Speaker 2: top of the fence post are now at four feet.
Speaker 2: That would be impressive enough, but considering the fact that
Speaker 2: the road tapers off downhill and then drops off significantly
Speaker 2: to a creek down at the bottom of the hill
Speaker 2: on the opposite side of the road makes it even
Speaker 2: more impressive. It walked past what we called a two
Speaker 2: tier bush Daniel present. I measured this out. The shorter
Speaker 2: of the two tier bushes bush was just over nine
Speaker 2: feet tall. The taller one was around twelve feet tall.
Speaker 2: This thing appears to be as tall, if not taller,
Speaker 2: than what the shorter of these two tiered bush was.
Speaker 2: This two tiered bush. I honestly have officially no logical
Speaker 2: explanation as to what Sam Hill was contained on the videotape.
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of people tell me, not a
Speaker 2: lot of people. I've had one for a couple of
Speaker 2: guys tell me, well, it's a jogger in a suit. Okay,
Speaker 2: Well do me a favor. Let's go out there on
Speaker 2: August second of whatever year at six twenty eight pm.
Speaker 2: I'll stand where I was standing. Then I'll take a
Speaker 2: video camera and you take a jogger in a suit
Speaker 2: and walk him down to the opposite side of the
Speaker 2: road and let me film him. And let's see how
Speaker 2: similar it is to this film of August of ninety two.
Speaker 2: I had another person tell me it was a guy
Speaker 2: on horseback riding down the road. Really, why did it
Speaker 2: look like a bipedal individual is compared to a quadruped horse?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you said twenty eight feet in two seconds.
Speaker 1: By the way, did a little type in here in
Speaker 1: the computer here that turns out to be about nine
Speaker 1: and a half miles an hour. Pretty good, pretty good jaunt, I'd.
Speaker 2: Say, Yeah. I mean, you know, I might have lost
Speaker 2: for words because I have no way to explain it.
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't sit here and say, whoa it
Speaker 2: was a light colored bigfoot because number one, I didn't
Speaker 2: see it when I filmed it. And number two, do
Speaker 2: I really know what a big foot is supposed to
Speaker 2: look like? No, I mean I know what eye witnesses
Speaker 2: Teff told us. But you know, so it's twenty eight
Speaker 2: it covers twenty eight feet. I hadn't a person tell
Speaker 2: me believe it or not that it was a guy
Speaker 2: in a costume. I no, sorry, I can't buy that one.
Speaker 2: Let me give you another example on what we did
Speaker 2: to try and prove what it was or was not.
Speaker 2: I know a guy who is six foot nine. I
Speaker 2: had him take a very light blue colored bedsheet, wrap
Speaker 2: it around him, cut out two ihole was in this bedsheet,
Speaker 2: and walk down that road. Okay, to see how close
Speaker 2: he was in height as compared to what this thing
Speaker 2: was that walked down the road. And I can sit
Speaker 2: here and swear on a stack of bibles today he
Speaker 2: came nowhere near close as tall as that thing was,
Speaker 2: and he was six foot nine.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and you know, somebody's got a lot of
Speaker 1: explaining to do, and that I don't think. I mean,
Speaker 1: you certainly have a little bit of explaining to do
Speaker 1: because you're telling us all these numbers and you were
Speaker 1: unfortunate enough not to notice it at the time. But
Speaker 1: for somebody who says that looking for another explanation, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, nothing really fits the bill, right,
Speaker 1: Well you could say that, yeah, yeah, nothing really fits
Speaker 1: the bill.
Speaker 6: You can't nothing you can take to the bank. But
Speaker 6: that's how bigfoots roll. I mean you've seen you've seen
Speaker 6: the film. Anybody that watched the Monster Request episode saw
Speaker 6: the film. The Gentleman in Minnesota, I believe he's from
Speaker 6: the Twin Cities area that did the video work on it.
Speaker 6: Just pull up the Ohio Grassman Monster Quest episode if
Speaker 6: you haven't seen it, and watch it and come to
Speaker 6: your own conclusion as to what it was. But I
Speaker 6: can tell you I can assure you of one thing.
Speaker 2: You may think pro or con of me, and that's
Speaker 2: fine whoever listens to this. But I can assure you
Speaker 2: of one thing. There is absolutely no need in the
Speaker 2: world whatsoever for me to have faked that video, because
Speaker 2: it would have made my life that much more difficult.
Speaker 2: It's a lot more difficult to live up to a
Speaker 2: lie than what it is to live up to the truth.
Speaker 2: And we've never been able to determine what's on the video.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know who the fellows are
Speaker 2: that belonged to a group called the Enigma Project located
Speaker 2: in Maryland. One of the guys is a fellow by
Speaker 2: the name of Mike Frizell. Another one is a fellow
Speaker 2: by the name of Marcus Adams. They seen the video,
Speaker 2: they took a copy of the video back with them.
Speaker 2: Marcus Adams did a lot of video work on it
Speaker 2: as well, frame by frame. I've got a disc here
Speaker 2: that has each individual frame on that disc. There's forty
Speaker 2: frames in that one point five seconds that were videotaped.
Speaker 2: They went out there one day with me. When they
Speaker 2: came over here, we got two by fours. They had
Speaker 2: a laser beam with them, a machine that emits a laser.
Speaker 2: Did a lot of work. I've still got the video somewhere.
Speaker 2: I believe it was in the mid nineties when it
Speaker 2: took place. When we did it, they tried to find
Speaker 2: out how tall this thing was. Everybody that's tried to
Speaker 2: do a really good analytical work on the video and
Speaker 2: try and find out how tall it was. As far
Speaker 2: as I can remember, no one has come up with
Speaker 2: anything under eight and a half feet tall.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2: It's just another piece of videotape that hasn't been explained
Speaker 2: away yet satisfactory in my mind, and I honestly welcome
Speaker 2: anyone who hasn't what they think is the explanation as
Speaker 2: to what it is. All I want to do is
Speaker 2: go out there with them and let them show me
Speaker 2: how they came to the conclusion. And if they're able
Speaker 2: to duplicate what's on the film, then all right, great,
Speaker 2: we know what it was. But so far, no one's
Speaker 2: invited me out to the film site with them to
Speaker 2: see what they were able to duplicate to prove that
Speaker 2: it's one thing or the other. So as far as
Speaker 2: that goes, as far as I'm concerned, it's still an unknown.
Speaker 1: Wow. And again this is just a tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at our time thinking, man, we do need
Speaker 1: another two hours on this one. But you know, you
Speaker 1: were just such a wealth of knowledge and memories, far
Speaker 1: better than mine apparently, but because you remember these names
Speaker 1: and dates, just rattle them off. And as an example
Speaker 1: of that, when I was out in Ohio in May,
Speaker 1: I called you from the field. I called, hey, do
Speaker 1: you have anything from this area? And you said, well,
Speaker 1: that a lot happens there. And then then you said
Speaker 1: wait a minute, and then you came back. Was it
Speaker 1: Carroll County or Carrollton? You said, oh, you know. One
Speaker 1: time I was called out there by the cops and
Speaker 1: there's fingerprints and smudges and things, and they say, man,
Speaker 1: you you there's police reports and your experience, your field
Speaker 1: work and experience is just it's mind boggling, frankly. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about other physical traces, because that that the
Speaker 1: fingerprints and all that sort of stuff reminded me that
Speaker 1: what other physical traces of sasquatches have you run across
Speaker 1: in your in your history of bigfoot field investigation.
Speaker 2: Well, we've seen a number of footprints in the ground
Speaker 2: that may or may not have been you know, the
Speaker 2: real thing I've I've seen footprints in the ground that
Speaker 2: turn out to be fake. We know that ninety nine
Speaker 2: point nine percent sure that they were faked. They were
Speaker 2: hoaxed for whatever reason. But we're also we've also seen
Speaker 2: footprints on the ground that we don't have any explanation for.
Speaker 2: There have been individuals to discover some hairs that I
Speaker 2: sent to doctor Henry Fahrenbeck as well as as there
Speaker 2: was another one and I can't for some reason the
Speaker 2: name escapes me, but the hairs were checked at that
Speaker 2: point in time amongst other known primate hairs, and if
Speaker 2: I remember correctly, this particular example, this sample of hairs
Speaker 2: came back that he couldn't identify it specifically. It might
Speaker 2: have been in the primate range of things, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't anything that he had a sample for on file.
Speaker 2: That set of hairs actually came from Columbiana County, and
Speaker 2: I believe that was in naeen ninety five. I was
Speaker 2: contacted about a very large what the witness called he
Speaker 2: had an encounter. He had a siding when he was
Speaker 2: deer hunting, and he came upon a tree as he
Speaker 2: was walking back to his mother's property, and on the
Speaker 2: tree he discovered what he could only describe as four
Speaker 2: very large, very wide finger smudges on the side of
Speaker 2: a tree, apparently from someone or something that had a
Speaker 2: hand in the mud or something to that effect, and
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, it had placed its hand on this tree.
Speaker 2: And I didn't see the finger smudges myself, but I've
Speaker 2: seen a photograph of him. These things were seven feet
Speaker 2: off the ground. And this is also the same tree
Speaker 2: that this gentleman pulled these reddish colored hairs off of
Speaker 2: that he gave me a sample of that. I sent
Speaker 2: a sample to doctor Fahrenbach. That is the kind of
Speaker 2: thing that you look at and say, what does this
Speaker 2: guy have to gain by faking something like this, by
Speaker 2: you know, cutting the hair off of a Barbie doll
Speaker 2: and trying to pass it off a sasquatch. I don't
Speaker 2: know you talked about the Carroll County incident that was
Speaker 2: in I believe April nineteen ninety five. I had a
Speaker 2: gentleman tell me about a very brief mention in the
Speaker 2: police report. The Times Reporter out of New Philadelphia used
Speaker 2: to publish the police log on a daily basis, and
Speaker 2: this particular entry in the police log there was a
Speaker 2: report of regularing eyes being seen at the woodline of
Speaker 2: a property in Carroll County that the Carroll County Sheriff's
Speaker 2: Department had investigated. Okay, great, I call Matt Hesson up.
Speaker 2: I say, hey, you want to take a ride, Let's
Speaker 2: go to Carroll. Oh okay, let's do that. So we
Speaker 2: get up there. I'm like really reluctant to go to
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department and say, hey, I'm a big footer.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me? You know, you tell me what happened?
Speaker 2: But I got up there. I talked to the gentleman.
Speaker 2: He said, you're don keating, And I said, yeah, he said,
Speaker 2: we were just trying to figure out how to get
Speaker 2: a hold of you. I said, well, here I am.
Speaker 2: They went out there and they checked this out. The
Speaker 2: Carroll County Sheriff's Department did They lifted a fingerprint off
Speaker 2: of the front window of a storm door of a
Speaker 2: mobile home. They give me a xerox copy of that
Speaker 2: report and of that fingerprint smudge. They still have it
Speaker 2: in their files. This thing was huge. They couldn't describe
Speaker 2: or explain what made this handprint on this window. It
Speaker 2: wasn't just one fingerprint, it was an entire palm print,
Speaker 2: and the four fingers and the thumb left a smudge
Speaker 2: on this window. These are sheriff guys. They're telling me
Speaker 2: they have no idea what this was. And I went
Speaker 2: out and talked to the residents. They were very open
Speaker 2: with me, very welcoming to my knowledge, held nothing back.
Speaker 2: They said, you know, we can go look for some
Speaker 2: tracks if you're interested. Okay, so we start walking up
Speaker 2: this road. Guess what. There is a very long series
Speaker 2: of barefooted tracks that went up the side of this
Speaker 2: road that were four five feet apart from each other,
Speaker 2: going uphill, that measured approximately I don't remember exactly what
Speaker 2: the measurements were, but I know they were fourteen or
Speaker 2: fifteen inches in length. All five digits showed up very clearly.
Speaker 2: It's this kind of stuff that you have to sit back,
Speaker 2: scratch your head and say, now, let's examine this and
Speaker 2: wonder why these guys would fake this stuff. They're not
Speaker 2: looking for publicity. They called the Sheriff's department. Sheriff's department
Speaker 2: was very open with me. They gave me the name, address,
Speaker 2: and phone number of the people. They were very welcoming
Speaker 2: because they wanted to talk to someone who had done
Speaker 2: investigations into this kind of thing to tell us about it.
Speaker 2: They wanted to talk to us. That's why I started
Speaker 2: the meetings back in nineteen eighty five. You know you
Speaker 2: hear of support groups. I wanted to start the meetings
Speaker 2: not only to get people to come out of the
Speaker 2: wood work to tell about their encounters. I wanted to
Speaker 2: start the meetings as a support group that if someone
Speaker 2: had actually encountered this thing, or discovered footprints, or heard
Speaker 2: something yell, or whatever the case may be, they would
Speaker 2: have a venue they could go to without fear of ridicule.
Speaker 2: That's how you get your reports. You don't broadcast or
Speaker 2: name over the airways. You don't give their address out
Speaker 2: an anonymity. If they ask for it, you give it
Speaker 2: and you talk to these people. And that's how you
Speaker 2: gain the trust of the general public. And I've published
Speaker 2: next to nothing in the way of names ever. But
Speaker 2: going back to the physical evidence, like the hand prints,
Speaker 2: not only one, but two handprints that I've been fortunate
Speaker 2: enough to hear about and talk to the people about.
Speaker 2: I mean, the question is what did and the answer is,
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I mean, I have an idea,
Speaker 2: but I didn't see it happen when it happened. So
Speaker 2: you know, there you have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you heard them vocalized before?
Speaker 2: I've heard vocals in the woods numerous times.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one time that I heard it was on September
Speaker 2: fifteenth of nineteen ninety one, middle of the afternoon. It
Speaker 2: was like ninety degrees outside. Myself and another fellow by
Speaker 2: Themaric Rick Morris, were during research again in kush Auckton County.
Speaker 2: The only thing that I can describe it like it
Speaker 2: would be a mournful cry. And that's that's That's the
Speaker 2: one noise that I've heard of all the times being
Speaker 2: in the woods that I think could have been the
Speaker 2: legitimate thing. Just once, uh, just just the one time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've heard a lot of noises in the past that
Speaker 2: could be something else, because you know, the forest distorts
Speaker 2: the sound. If you're in a patch of woods and
Speaker 2: you hear the noise, is it in the same patch
Speaker 2: of woods that you are, or is it outside of
Speaker 2: that patch of woods and you're catching it through the trees.
Speaker 2: So I'm not really I've heard other noises that could
Speaker 2: be but that one time, I'm really really high up
Speaker 2: on my list that you know, could have been the
Speaker 2: real thing.
Speaker 3: I haven't heard Ohio.
Speaker 2: I've heard it from what Matt recorded, but I've never
Speaker 2: heard heard it in the field.
Speaker 1: So what are you doing nowadays with bigfoot on? I
Speaker 1: mean you just kind of hang up the syrups a
Speaker 1: little bit, or you're dipping your feet back in the pool.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: I had gotten out of it since about twenty twelve,
Speaker 2: and then last year year before last fell by the
Speaker 2: name of David Wickham from Kushocton, Ohio, fifteen miles down
Speaker 2: the road for me. He contacted me and wanted to
Speaker 2: meet up talk about some of the stuff that I've
Speaker 2: investigated and things like that. One thing led to another
Speaker 2: and he said, hey, listen, I'm seriously considering about getting
Speaker 2: a conference together. Would you be interested in speaking? And
Speaker 2: I'm like, I had split decision on that. I was like, dude,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything with Bigfoot. I don't want to
Speaker 2: get back into it. And at the same time, I'm
Speaker 2: thinking this would be a great avenue for me to
Speaker 2: go talk talk about some of the more interesting stuff
Speaker 2: that's happened in my past and to set the record
Speaker 2: street on a couple of things. So I'm not into it.
Speaker 2: I'm not back into it full time, not even really
Speaker 2: part time. Just from time to time I'll cruise the backroads,
Speaker 2: you know, and try to do some wildlife photography, and
Speaker 2: if something out of the ordinary happens, well, so be it.
Speaker 2: But I recently wrote a small booklet titled Big Dreams
Speaker 2: and Bigfoot, and I quoted a memoir because it's how
Speaker 2: I when I started out as a kid, like I
Speaker 2: told you earlier, wanted to be a TV meteorologist, And
Speaker 2: instead of being a TV meteorologist, I ended up being
Speaker 2: a paranormal researcher cryptozoologist as they say, And you know,
Speaker 2: I talked about some of the most interesting stuff that
Speaker 2: has happened in my lifetime doing the investigations, and so
Speaker 2: that's kind of like where I'm at today. Every now
Speaker 2: and then I'll get somebody ask me, Hey, anything new
Speaker 2: going on. I look at him like, do I have
Speaker 2: a third eyeball growing on my forehead? I'm not doing
Speaker 2: active investigations, and so no, I don't know of anything new.
Speaker 2: I tried to distance myself away from it as much
Speaker 2: as I possibly can because I've found a certain amount
Speaker 2: of peace from getting out of it, and it's kind
Speaker 2: of like the way I would like to keep it.
Speaker 2: Although I've showed up at the Ohio conference at Salt
Speaker 2: Fork the last couple of years just to visit with people,
Speaker 2: and then I've shown up at the Sasquatch Triangle conference
Speaker 2: that David started in Cushocton, so I've got a little
Speaker 2: bit of input on that. But that's where I'm at today.
Speaker 2: You know, if anybody wants tell me about their story,
Speaker 2: I'll be happy to listen to them and even go
Speaker 2: out to the spot and see what it looked like
Speaker 2: where they had the encounter. But I don't go out
Speaker 2: of my way like I used to. I used to
Speaker 2: go out into the woods every weekend from nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: five all the way through two thousand and ten, twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: twenty twelve. You know, if I could have the money
Speaker 2: back just from gasoline, i'd be a rich person.
Speaker 1: You know, it sounds like you're you're bowing out of
Speaker 1: the field. Kind of coincided with the start of finding
Speaker 1: Bigfoot and the huge influx of newbies and everybody else
Speaker 1: coming on board. So good timing on your part, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Well, all right, don thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on Bigfoot and beyond. I know
Speaker 1: you don't grant a lot of interviews, and I'm just
Speaker 1: so very thankful that you grace us with your presence
Speaker 1: and because you're you're for me a glimpse into the
Speaker 1: history of the subject. And that's not because you're old
Speaker 1: and stuff. Don't take don't take that. Don't take it
Speaker 1: like that. You're not that much older than me. But
Speaker 1: I see this thing as I see the Bigfoot history
Speaker 1: as a generational thing. You know, there's like the pre
Speaker 1: history and whatnot, and then there's the four Horsemen, which
Speaker 1: are kind of the first generation. But then there's you,
Speaker 1: there's you and literary lund and people like that, and
Speaker 1: then you go to the next generation, and I kind
Speaker 1: of see myself as part of the third or even
Speaker 1: fourth generation of Bigfooters coming up. So when I get
Speaker 1: to speak to an elder statesman like yourself, someone who
Speaker 1: was there, who had boots on the ground, who was
Speaker 1: pioneering in a state that no one had touched and
Speaker 1: no one really took seriously beyond perhaps John Green and
Speaker 1: a small handful of other people's, it's just a great
Speaker 1: pleasure for me personally to get a glimpse into that
Speaker 1: history from a witness of that history, and the fact
Speaker 1: that I can call you a friend and call you
Speaker 1: at any time, it just means the world to me.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Don for everything, and probably
Speaker 1: not the least of which coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much, Cliff for the kind words.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. You know, I have John Green
Speaker 2: to thank for me getting involved, and I appreciate your time,
Speaker 2: and I appreciate you asking me to be on the show.
Speaker 2: I had fun. And if you ever need a time
Speaker 2: filler or anything like that in the future, you know,
Speaker 2: give me a call. I'll be happy to do it.
Speaker 1: Oh fantastic cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks a lot, Don. I appreciate you. I've always
Speaker 3: looked up to you in a well respect the name
Speaker 3: in the bigfoot community, so I really appreciate you coming
Speaker 3: on with us.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bobo. It was good talking to you again.
Speaker 2: And hopefully someday down the road we can sit down
Speaker 2: and share a beverage and talk some stories.
Speaker 1: I love that, all right, Don, will you take it easy?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much again, Thank you. Well, there you go, Bobs.
Speaker 1: How was that man?
Speaker 3: That was great? I didn't talk much because it was
Speaker 3: he just he knew what to say and just kept rolling. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things like I like, how much
Speaker 1: do I ask questions? I just want to listen, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want to I don't want to interrupt any
Speaker 1: stories and whatnot. But but there are so many things
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask him about. Well, I mean, Ohio
Speaker 1: is just the gift that keeps on giving man. So
Speaker 1: many good researchers, so many bigfoot reports and whatnot out
Speaker 1: of there thanks to the bigfoot researchers out there, and
Speaker 1: such a long history of it too. It was so
Speaker 1: cool to have Dawn on tonight just because I mean,
Speaker 1: I Bob, I know, Bobo that you're like me, that
Speaker 1: you just love the history of this subject that we're
Speaker 1: swimming in. It's just so neat to have people on
Speaker 1: that who knew everybody and saw everything.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean in Ohio. I mean that's that's the
Speaker 3: episode on The's the Mississippi for sure?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, I think so too. Well. All right, well,
Speaker 1: it looks like this is the end of another Bigfoot
Speaker 1: and Beyond here. So if people out there listening, if
Speaker 1: you have questions for us, if you want to leave
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Speaker 1: you want. And also, don't forget we have really cool
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Speaker 1: dot com. And uh, I don't know, I'm wearing one now.
Speaker 1: I'm literally wearing one now, so and I look great.
Speaker 1: Can't you tell on radio?
Speaker 3: You sound good?
Speaker 1: Darn right? It's the shirt.
Speaker 3: I figured that's what it was, all right.
Speaker 1: Both man, take us home, all right.
Speaker 3: Folks, thanks for listening. We appreciate it. Tell your friends
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Speaker 3: the squatch. So until next week, keep it squatchy.
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