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Speaker 1: Let's start the stream and see if this works.

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Speaker 2: Okay, fingers questa, okay, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, welcome, welcome, welcome. Can everybody in the chat hear me?

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Is that you play music?

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Speaker 3: Alightter just pus this the ad Cauzipito started. Okay, uh yeah,

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and can people give me as well? All right? Kay?

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Speaker 1: Can you guys hear uh snack? Hold on, there's another

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computer that's playing. Let me turn that off.

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Speaker 4: Okay, all right, we should be good.

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Speaker 1: We're going, we're rolling sounds good yep, everybody lot and clear,

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all right, welcome, this is uh we've been wanting to

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do this show for a while.

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Speaker 5: The stream and I have with me.

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Speaker 1: Snack, one of our French ortho bros. I've just been

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here reading my copy of how to Mind Control Snack

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by Ignacious Loyal.

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Speaker 5: Snack there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah that I had the.

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Speaker 1: Spiritual exercises and I'm going to figure out how to

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mind control you with the key phrases and words.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Okay, what's up man? How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm quite right? Yeah, it's very good being here. I

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want to thank everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pre sip gang and all the theres

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a French team because we've been working on a lot

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of stuff and it's good that, you know, especially having

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these kind of sources that are not available for there's

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a you know, English speaking public.

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Speaker 1: So hold on, So let's tell everybody what you do

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real quick and and and just kind of lay that

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out there that you you try to translate a lot

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of these French sources that are not in English, right,

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is that what you're up to?

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Speaker 3: Okay? So I'm part of a collective, Like basically we

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have a server, website, YouTube channel, we are supervised by

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a deacon that we are French, a lot of French

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converts and so on, and and all collective is about,

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you know, trying to get out sources, easy apologetics and

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new stuff, not not only know translating, but usually bringing

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out the ideas and sharing. And we've been involved with

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with yeah, some of the people that follow you as well,

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the Precept Gang and and we have a yeah on

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server or on thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah oh cool?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So and I've got the links in the description

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to the French Orthobro discord to your YouTube channel and

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then if they want to follow you on Twitter. So

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everybody's got that information and we'll touch on that again

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real quick, I want to make a point about what's

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coming on YouTube. There's going to be a lot of

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changes to YouTube, particularly in January, so we want to

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be prepared for that. I think Jay's Analysis can weather

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this storm. But basically what's going to happen is that

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the normal ad revenue is going to kind of go

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away because they're going to implement changes that have to

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do with child protection laws in the FTC and this

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is going to affect a lot of gaming channels, but

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they're going to kind of force everybody who has a

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YouTube channel I think January to choose whether their content

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is for kids or not, and if it's not, then

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the demonetization is going to be a lot more severe.

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So it's not going to hurt super chats I don't

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think at this point, which is you know, we do

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well with that here and it's not going to hurt

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channel subscription. So if you want to support Jays Analysis

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on YouTube, you can join the channel subscription button there

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and that lets you get access to the Jason Analysis material.

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Speaker 5: And I don't think it's going to affect super chats

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as of yet.

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Speaker 1: So those are the two ways that you can continue

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on YouTube to support but the viewership and the memberships

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are not memberships, but the new subscribers to Jasonnalysis just

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following the channel.

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Speaker 5: This has affected everybody.

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Speaker 1: So in the last two weeks, what they've done with

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the sub button, this has affected everybody. So there's a

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lot of big changes coming and I think a lot

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of people's subscribers are down or flattened out for the

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last two weeks. I don't think hopefully that's not going

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to continue for forever. But there's big changes coming to

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YouTube and it's affecting you know, channels that if this

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is part of.

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Speaker 5: How you make a living.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully we can weather the storm in terms of

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the channel memberships where you can join or you can

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always subscribe to jays Analysis or jason Alysis, or you

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can hit us up with super Jazz anyway. So I

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needed to make that clear because I've been researching that

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today so.

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Speaker 5: Excuse me. So today we're going to be talking about.

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Speaker 1: Issues in France, French jesuits, the Frankish church. Let's start

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with the issue that you want to start with, So

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you tell me where you think is the best place

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to start. Because we've talked a lot about jesuits, accounter

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Reformation pre less when it comes to weird mortification practices,

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the Jesuit usage of heart worship, Abata's works that apparently

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have not been translated into English about the Jesuits, what's

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the best place to start in your mind?

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Speaker 3: As the best place to start is you know, thinking

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about I mean into French context what Trenchfitly is, you know,

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because we have a lot of people thinking it's a

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bastion of Catholicism. It's yeah, but we need to think,

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you know, look historically, and then I'm going to get

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there because he's probably one of the best sources we

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have and it needs to be vindicated because a lot

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of people are just not accepting it because you converted.

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But I'll tach on that. So basically what I want

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to go on first is the fact that France is

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actually basically friends started as something very Orthodox, and you know,

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Papism in France, especially after the Vatican One, France always

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has been you know, pushing against it, and really we

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should not see France as this bastion of Catholicism. And

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actually the fact that the SSPX and stuff like this

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are very present in France is is more of a

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side effect of this, because you see whole religious as

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all religious climate was just destroyed after Vatican won. So

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basically the idea is that when we look at the

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history of France, the first king we converted, like the

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French Constantine if you want French in Constantin was actly Clovis,

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and Clovis at the very start. So it was frank

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and the Franks was the only church that converted to Christianity,

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the United Church and Divided Church, which we know is Orthodox.

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And as soon as he did this, as soon as

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he converted, he convoked consuls, namely the Council of Audience

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and the Council of Audience establishes, which is basically opposiphally

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in the Kingdom of Franks. So already we can.

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Speaker 1: See that in you because you're saying it really fast.

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The Council of what.

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Speaker 3: The Council of Audience Orleans okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, So

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that's in five hundred eleven, okay. And during this council

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there's basically the establishment of autocephony in France. And even

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after the schism, we can see that this idea of

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you know, friends getting centralized, you know, especially after the

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one hundred years wars Friends being centralized also involved, you know,

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centralization of the church and the ideas that the church

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was not just a political tool for the Vatican. And

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we'll see it especially through the Jersuit infiltration, because they

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came a little late, and we can see that. You know,

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in all traditional Christianity there always were a fight against

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such influences. So yes, basically the church that existed in

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France was the Gallican Church. The Gallican Church concept of

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it is very easy. It really looks like the Anglicans,

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except then community. And so the Gallican Church says that

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as a Lieutenant of Christ is actually the king of

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friends of Christ. And here we can see the lieutenant

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like bigger.

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Speaker 5: Few will vicker lieutenant lit like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, lieutenant yeah. And just this, you know, it already

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invalidates most of the papal claims to friends because this

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already is that odds with a Vatican one saying that

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there is a universal jurisdictions that the purpose believed to

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have absolute power. And you know it showed even even

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during the First consulta Vatican. During the first consulta Vatican,

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there was a huge French position the Gallican Church and

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the Gallican Church actually is the only reason. One of

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the most clear reasons the Vatican collectively push ultra apism

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like after the Vatican One was the fact that there

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was the Franco Prussian War. Basically, the emperor was captured

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in the old state machine just fell apart.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's take this slow, let's not go

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too faster. So basically, what we're saying is is that

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in this early period, when you have the expansion of

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Christianity into this region, it's essentially orthodox. We think of

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this as the Gallican Church. And you're saying that the

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granting of autocephali here of being self governing more or

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less shows that the practice of the Church in this

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period is Orthodox church governance, and we don't see the

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Vatican one conception here. And this is why this has

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been a problem for the claims of Vatican One. Correct, Yeah, correct, Okay,

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Now that's a first argument. And what I want to

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get to then is when we when we move towards

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the period of Charlemagne, can you enlighten us how before

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we up to it. We see that this is a

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problem of Vatican One, But can you take us through

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the Charlemagne period, just because My understanding is that I'm

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not agreeing with everything that Romanites or any of those

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people say, but there is a point to be made

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here that a lot of Greek writers have made about

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the history of the Frankish Church, which is that it

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does eventually become a tool for the Frankish power. And

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that's where we do start to see problems with Charlemagne.

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And it's actually the letters of Saint Photios the Great

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where he complains about Frankish missionaries, and he does mean

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people under Charlemagne. He's not using the generic term of

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Franks for the Westerns. He's specifically speaking of people from

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the Franks spreading the Phillyoquay missionaries spreading the Philioquay in

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the jurisdictions of Greek churches.

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Speaker 5: So is that correct?

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Speaker 1: And can you verify that or do you want to

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get into that period next?

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Speaker 3: Correct? So, basically what the Franks did, and it started

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with Peppin. He started with Peppin the Great, which is

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the father of Charlemy. They started to see so of

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course they established what a valley because like Frank's means

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free and so so this was starting a club is

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So that's a little bit before but starting at Charlemagne, well,

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start to see a shift. And this shift is is

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about it's seeing the papacy as a tool. So it

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started with the donation of Pepin and then the coronation

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of Charlemagne. So the donation of Papin is the moment

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where the papacy became the theocracy, the moment where powers

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are mixed between temper and the spiritual powers. And yes,

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Charlemagne then used the Church as a tool, and he

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tried to prop up the Vatican as being yeah, more

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powerful and more important that it was.

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Speaker 1: Especially I want to add two that I've added this

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link in the chat. That's the link to the to

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the classic article by of Father Denisius Dragas, which quotes

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the letters of Photius talking about the spread of the

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phillyoquay by Frankish missionaries. And everybody who's interested in these

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topics should be aware.

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Speaker 5: Of this issue. Hold on one second, hear it, man.

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Speaker 1: So let's be clear about this quote. It's very important.

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It's about the middle of the doctrine or.

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Speaker 5: Of the essay.

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Speaker 1: It says Photius knew, of course that the Roman Church

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had don't approved of the Frankish philioquay, but Frankish missionaries

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had been sent into Bulgaria, and so this is the

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central all these stupid pop ups in this old s

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GeoCities website.

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Speaker 5: So let me put that quote.

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Speaker 1: Let's it's not gonna let me, it's not gonna let yeah, yes,

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here you go.

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Speaker 5: Let me add this quote to the chat here.

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Speaker 1: So that you know this is legit, because this always

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comes up in debates and people always have a.

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Speaker 5: Problem with this.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I don't think I can fit this whole quote

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in the chat, so let me just screenshot this for everybody.

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Speaker 5: Anyway.

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Speaker 1: So I apologize for interrupting you there, but let I'll

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want to let you continue then. So we've got the

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attempt to utilize the church in a political sense under Charlemagne.

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So there is something to the critique of the Frankish power.

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Let's be clear about this quote here it is. Meyer

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published a study of the Photian Council of eight seventy

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nine eight eighty, putting forward the thesis at the toditle

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of the book was a successful.

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Speaker 5: Council of Union.

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Speaker 1: In this study, it concluded that a restoration of union

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was needed for the convocation sent out of eight seventy

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nine eighty. More specifically at celebrated peace.

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Speaker 5: Once more in the Church of God. But he went

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on to.

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Speaker 1: Explain the basis of this unity with theological In his

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own words, this unity meant, first of all unity in

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the same faith. Photios was a strong defender of the

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purity of doctrine. Indeed, where orthodoxy was concerned, Photios was

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the true spokesman of the Byzantine bishops. Meyer goes on,

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this is a Romancoulate writer. The West was also attached

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to the great value of the purity of faith, but

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in fact concentrated more on the question of devotion to

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the Sea of Rome. As a big shocker right the

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Senate of eight seventy nine eighty, the Father's care for

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the purity of doctrine emerged in the Horos, the formula

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of that synod which they proclaimed. This horror cannot be

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understood as a dogmatic definition. But this is quoting the

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romancolt God, but rather as a true expression of the

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ecclesiastical feeling of the synod. It expressed by the conciliar

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usage of the creed of the Niceno Constantapolitan production. There

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is no in other words, the one that was produced

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at Naicino constant not the Nicene Creed without the.

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Speaker 5: Philique is what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt that Photios opposed the addition of the

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philioquay to the creed on dogmatic grounds. It is in

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his famous and cyclical to the Oriental Patriarchs that he

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complained about the addition by the Frankish missionaries working in

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Bulgaria because he was he considered it theologically unacceptable. His

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whole argument is based on the conviction that the addition

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undermined the unity of God. Exactly if you read the Mystagogy,

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this is still correct. We find by Saint Photios. We

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find that the same reasoning in his Mysticgagia as yeah,

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here he goes in his letter to the Archbishop of.

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Speaker 5: Aquileia.

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Speaker 1: Photios knew that the Roman Church had not approved of

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the Frankish Philioquay. So this is still in the period

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when it's not yet a normative dogmatic issue in the West.

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It does eventually become a normative dogmatic issue, and it's

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later that we see the theology clarified, especially at the

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Ceneta Blackernee, which codifies the Orthodox conception inconsistent harmony with

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the sixth and seventh Councils. In terms of the christology

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and the iconography, this is where we get the essence

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inergy distinctions is where we get uncreated energies in Christ.

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That's what's continued into our synods, and then the Roman

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calitary Church goes its way. Anyway, I wanted to make

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that clear. So let's move on to the next section.

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What do you have next for us in the history

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of the Francish Church.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, so basically, yes, as orthodox, which would just

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see that it started out well, it was the only

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tribe that converted to Orthodoxy. But after Charlemaan's is a

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real shift. He basically uses the Visigothic system, and of

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course the Visigoths where being in Spain, they had the

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things from the Toledo Console, including the few Aquay. So

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at this point it's it's heretical. And then we start

298
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to see the you know, the shift into the the Paschism.

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So basically the Frankish Jewish was always pushing. It was

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always a pushing for more papacy. It was very involved

301
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in the Crusade and things like this. You have also

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all the strange devotion starting popping up with the Franks

303
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you had alive on this. We're gonna we're gonna talk

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about this a little bit later when we talk about

305
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the actual devotions and and and with this, we start

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to see, you know, at this point the Frankish empires

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was sort of dismantled, and you start to see basically

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the rivals.

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Speaker 1: Which period is this which.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we're talking about high lages, high Middle.

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Speaker 1: Ages, I'm mid lagies, Okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So you'll have one center that will be the

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Holy Born Empire Germany and another one which was which

314
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is the remnants of East Francia, which became Friends and

315
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Germany when the road of more feudalism more the centralization

316
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of the time, and France went to the road of

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centralization because feudalism failed very early, you know, with the

318
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,759
One hundred Years War and so on. And what we

319
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:32,920
see is a consolidation of the power of the king

320
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,759
and the continuation of this idea of French the factocephally

321
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and you know, whereas the king of the Germans, Henry

322
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the Fourth was you know, being called humiliated by the pope,

323
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you know at Canosa. Basically the Pope says that now

324
00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:57,359
you cannot choose your bishop's public ex communicate you, and

325
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excommunication then would be war, especially in a very decentralized state.

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Speaker 1: So the invested your controversy where the the poe will

327
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now decide that the selection of bishops and this is

328
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not going to be in any way connected to the

329
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idea of the king.

330
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Speaker 5: Correct.

331
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Speaker 3: Yeah, basically the idea that friends went the other way.

332
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Like we see kings, for example, we see kings from

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the valwadynasty already starting.

334
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Speaker 1: To say that again and said a little bit slower what.

335
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Speaker 3: You will say. It's like the philip level and the

336
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Valwadina state already starting to want more simplization and they

337
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do not want to be controlled by the pup even

338
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if it means refusing imperial titles. And that's when you

339
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you will have, for example, incidents give the papacy. If

340
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there was a king of Friends who basically sent a

341
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commander to attack a Pube to capture a pub. I

342
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,319
think this was led by Chevalier the Nogay, you will

343
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have this idea of more centralization and you will have

344
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a strong state institution that are here to control theology.

345
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And the University of Paris was exactly that.

346
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Speaker 1: So so I'm sorry, I'm still confused. So you're saying

347
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that that the French state power, which is embodied still

348
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in Gallicanism, departs from the pope by wanting to continue

349
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to have the control of who's the bishops, right, yeah, correct, okay, okay, And.

350
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Speaker 3: You can see also through the Avignon papacy and so on.

351
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:56,720
So that's why there's the a yeah, yeah, this is

352
00:21:56,839 --> 00:21:59,000
this is is this idea you know, difficult to France

353
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so well as Germany was being repted this friends try

354
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to centralize their compromise, you know, like it's Catholicism, but

355
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:10,559
it's the state still. And that's where you can see

356
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that even even when French was nominally Catholic, they were

357
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fighting against against papal primacy in exclusive powers to the book,

358
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and you can see it in Gallicanism later on, and

359
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,799
you can see it things that combat against the Jesuits,

360
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because the Jesuits were a papal tool try to infiltrate

361
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trends and trans actually fought back.

362
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Speaker 5: So the art.

363
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Speaker 1: So the idea here is that this is why the

364
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,960
Jesuits become a tool of the papal power to go

365
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into to basically subvert the French state power to bring

366
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,920
it back under or to actually to bring it under

367
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the full jurisdiction of the papers.

368
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Speaker 5: That correct.

369
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that's what you'd see an it culminates,

370
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,559
you know, in this Gullican crisis one.

371
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Speaker 5: I say, gotcha.

372
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Speaker 1: So does this fit into the Council of v enn

373
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and the Frankish throne and the templars? Does that play

374
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:18,039
into this?

375
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Speaker 3: The templar very complicated matter because they used to be

376
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very prevalent in France that there used to be this

377
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,920
This was with Philip Lebett. There was an agreement between

378
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,680
the purp and the king to push them out and

379
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:42,960
basically take their riches. Right, So yeah, I believe the

380
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,440
pope was from the Anian this one particular. If I

381
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,680
remember what I might be wrong.

382
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I'm not trying to get too sidetracked about

383
00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:54,759
Templar conspiracy. I'm just remembering that there was there were

384
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:59,400
complaints about the fact that the the Frankish throne wanted

385
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,160
there was a part of the Council of the end

386
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,680
controversy relates to the Frankish power versus the papacy. That's

387
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,279
part of the problem. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Okay, so what

388
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:16,119
do you want to take us next, So where do

389
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,960
we want to go into the into the next period?

390
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: The next period historically will be will be the end

391
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,680
of Gelicanism and will be what's who I will use

392
00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:36,519
as a basis with because yeah, I'll primarily use his sources.

393
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,079
Speaker 1: Okay, And this is this is Abbe GeTe who Vladimir GeTe,

394
00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:46,200
who was a convert to Orthodoxy eventually, So if you

395
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,559
don't know about he wrote a really good book on

396
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,519
the papacy called The Papacy.

397
00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:53,599
Speaker 5: You can get this on Amazon.

398
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: I recommend that it's one of the good books to

399
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,279
read as a critique of the papacy, the famous convert here,

400
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,640
So tell us about this. And I don't you've been

401
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,519
saying that there's also a book that he's written on

402
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,839
Jesuits that we don't think is in English.

403
00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I don't think it's available in English. And

404
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,839
he wrote, basically his master magnum opus was a history

405
00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:16,680
of the Church. So basically Gette was part of this

406
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,759
French Gallican Church and he had the approval of the

407
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,359
French Church, he had the approval of the king, and

408
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,960
he was mandated as an historian as well. All right,

409
00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:35,440
about the history of the Frankish Church and the history

410
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,599
of the Church in general. And what's very funny is

411
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:43,640
that his four first terms of the history of the

412
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,279
Church got accepted by a Vatican and after they get

413
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:51,200
put into the index. So whenever people tell you that

414
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,880
gette you know it was not is that he was biased,

415
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,559
that it was anti papers and stuff like this. You

416
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,680
need to remember that the papacy actually actually accepted several

417
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,200
of his books and he continued his work, he got

418
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,759
put into the index, and and then the this crisis happened,

419
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,440
the Vatican One crisis.

420
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: So basically it was so so the papacy itself appreciated

421
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,200
his research and scholarship until the time of back in One.

422
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 5: Basically what you're.

423
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: Saying, until he stepped he stepped too far into his stories,

424
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:33,400
into his story. And he actually writes this in his book.

425
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,359
He said that I was put into the index for

426
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:41,720
the papacy claimed that I'm being too partial. I was

427
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,720
put into the index for not being honest officially, and

428
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:49,039
he said that I was too light on the papacy,

429
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:56,119
uh with for this and yes, it eventually became orthodox.

430
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,640
If you know his story, call knowledge.

431
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:03,039
Speaker 1: What do you mean he was too light on the papacy.

432
00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: He considered himself, you know, to have not gone far

433
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:07,039
enough the papers.

434
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: He said it was too far, but he said I

435
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:18,279
didn't go far enough. Yeah, okay, gotcha, Okay, go ahead, okay.

436
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, after this describes he went back and you know,

437
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,359
if many all Catholics like he, he had correspondence before this,

438
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,960
and basically you need to under sense that Vatican won

439
00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:30,880
and it was supposed to be like a cry of

440
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,599
glory of the papacy. It was more for less breath

441
00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:44,440
because it basically, I've destroyed a lot of traditional what.

442
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: Was the last breath batic in one itself?

443
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 5: Was you mean?

444
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:54,079
Speaker 3: Yeah? Because it set them on the course that destroyed

445
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,519
a lot of the traditional understanding.

446
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 5: I see, it wasn't that.

447
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't didn't do and have a good quote that

448
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:03,680
somebody put in the Discord the other day that something

449
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:08,839
like from now on, Roman Catholic apologetics will be nothing

450
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,039
but trying to debate about the papacy.

451
00:28:11,599 --> 00:28:12,599
Speaker 5: It wasn't that something.

452
00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's from It's from the same book

453
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:19,480
I put it there. So Dolinger was basically the equivalent

454
00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:25,559
the German equivalent Ignazan Dolinger of of GeTe. He became

455
00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:30,440
an old Catholic and get became Orthodox and do Linger extensively.

456
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,200
You know it was also an historian. He was part

457
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,279
of this historian Catholic historian. We rejected all this. He said, no,

458
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,039
it doesn't match historically, and yeah he wrote this quad

459
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:41,839
it's it's beautiful. He said that from known all the

460
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,200
art of theology performed by Roman Catholic theology will be

461
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:52,480
about determining, uh, which level of infallibility the pope has

462
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:56,039
in any statement. And he compares it to the Oracle

463
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:00,119
of Delphi. It's the oracle of the tile. Like you

464
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,200
need something, you don't need to look at audition, you

465
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,880
just ask him and see what comes out. So, yes,

466
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:13,759
this was this great shock in even a traditional Catholicism

467
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:15,920
in Europe. So what we need to understand is that

468
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:22,000
a elegant one is actually is everything but traditional. And

469
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:24,799
that's why you had most of the historian you rejecting

470
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,920
the paper. Lawyers were fine, of course, that many many

471
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:36,240
false document to use. Actually, Dollinger wrote extensively about the

472
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,799
papist falsification. It tells you that basically you will have

473
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,960
upwards of ten layers for a single quote of falsification

474
00:29:46,079 --> 00:29:49,599
anytime it mentions the failure quick anytime it mentions the

475
00:29:49,759 --> 00:29:53,160
primacy of bitter. So basically it's unusable. And you can

476
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,319
see it in the patology and the.

477
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 5: Tona, which is unusable. Which thing.

478
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,759
Speaker 3: Basically, all the quotes Roman Catholic will send you all

479
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,480
the so called patristic quotes and stuff.

480
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,599
Speaker 1: Like this, because there's the layers of including forgeries, there's

481
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,160
layers of what jesuit interpolation is that what you're saying.

482
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,759
Speaker 3: You love the Dominicans, you will have the Jesuits you

483
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,880
will have. And sometimes it's shocking, you know, sometimes you

484
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,000
will literally see that there will be a little an

485
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:26,920
notation it was edity, so this was edited, and you say,

486
00:30:27,119 --> 00:30:31,319
the original said this, but what's changed to be correct

487
00:30:31,359 --> 00:30:37,240
to the doctrine just crazy because it's literally admitting to interpolation.

488
00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:40,119
But sometimes you will compare, compare the Greek and the Latin,

489
00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:42,920
and you will have a whole paragraph just appearing out

490
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,519
of nowhere in the Latin edition that it's talking about

491
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:49,960
the philurequy, for example, And yeah, sadly, you know, when

492
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,839
you look at Dollinger's work, it was a great Catholic historian.

493
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,200
Most of the story. We can get most of the

494
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,119
manuscripts you can get get from the Vatican heavily into

495
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,119
politic Really, it's very difficult.

496
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: I see, I see and all this, and you're saying

497
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,920
that Geta noticed this, or many French writers have noticed.

498
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:18,240
Who has kind of pinpointed the interpolations and this kind

499
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,519
of stuff. Who's who's noticed this? I mean, I know,

500
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:22,079
you guys have.

501
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:25,839
Speaker 3: Most of the old Catholics, you have a lot of people.

502
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,559
But Getty was really the foremost French afthting on. He

503
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,759
was a great history and he saws the historical discrepancy,

504
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,599
and then he looked back into into Catholicism and then

505
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,640
he realized that, yes, of course it was Orthodoxy all along,

506
00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:47,160
this was the Church describing Matthew sixteen eighteen. And then

507
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,119
he looked back at his work, you know, as the

508
00:31:50,519 --> 00:31:54,359
history of the Church. He looked back at all this

509
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,480
darkma history and he wrote about it from the Orthodox perspective.

510
00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:03,480
And that's when it becomes all clear. And we have

511
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:08,240
him to think because the pin pointed specific heresies, He

512
00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:12,559
pin pointed specific historical events that do not match up,

513
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,000
and he pin pointed the heavy influence of the Jesuits,

514
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,319
and right now many texts are very difficult to find

515
00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:21,680
that we can be glad because he was an historian,

516
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:24,279
he was accredited, he had the approval of the king,

517
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:27,640
he had the approval, he had full access to the

518
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,160
Library of Blois, which was a huge Catholic library, and

519
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,200
he could wrote us all this about the heresies, about

520
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:40,960
the prelate's devotions and about the heavy influence of the Jesuits.

521
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,079
Speaker 5: Interesting. That's why I'm okay, So what's next on your list?

522
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: I want to talk about the devotions? You know, the

523
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,359
idea here was mainly to vindicate.

524
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: Okay, and let me pracace us by saying so, basically,

525
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,799
this relates to some of the criticisms that we've put

526
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:02,400
out in the last several months, which is an old criticism,

527
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,400
that is that what we see in the manifestations of

528
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,920
devotion between Orthodox Theology and Roman Catholicism is very different.

529
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,559
And there's a reason for that, particularly in the second millennium,

530
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:15,799
the two churches go in different directions, and Orthodoxy of

531
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:19,640
course makes a big point to stress that our experience

532
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,599
of God, we think is unified. We don't think that

533
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:29,359
there's a different experience amongst say, monastics in Greece on

534
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,480
man Athos, as opposed to the church fathers who had

535
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,079
the experience of God in the desert, you know, one

536
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,920
seven hundred years ago, the experience of the Light of

537
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,319
God of Mount Tabor, all those types of things. Theosis

538
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:46,400
as a process is unified, and that means we don't

539
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,200
see the really weird out there, fringe, crazy stuff. And

540
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,880
this was something that really stuck out to me when

541
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,720
I began to investigate Orthodoxy back in about two thousand

542
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,039
and seven, when I was a hardcore trad Catholic, and

543
00:33:57,119 --> 00:33:58,839
I actually, you know, to be honest, I had some

544
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,599
issues with the weirdness of some of the so called

545
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,799
Saints of Rome Catholicism, specifically the women, specifically the flights

546
00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:11,440
of emotion that they talk about, the stigmata, the sexual imagery,

547
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,599
and a lot of those things. And what eventually became

548
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,079
evident to me was the fact that in this I'm

549
00:34:17,079 --> 00:34:19,039
not saying this to distract from you. I'll want you

550
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,880
to talk about your topics and the translations and all that,

551
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,079
but one thing that stuck out is if you read

552
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:26,480
a cult Renaissance Church of Rome. He points out the

553
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,960
fact that in the Renaissance papacy, you had a lot

554
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,480
of usage of nudes, a lot of usage of things

555
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:39,679
that like the Goddess isis being painted and used in

556
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,119
one of the papal apartments or something like that. And

557
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,440
this is very especially Bernini, this is very prevalent. After

558
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:48,079
you know, all this stuff is used in the Vatican.

559
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,480
And to me this always stuck out as a tremendous

560
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:55,800
hypocrisy because of the trad obsession with mortal sins, and

561
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,400
yet I can't go to the Vatican without having, you know,

562
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:02,679
tiny little peepees on Renaissance people sticking out everywhere, and

563
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,400
giant boobies of chunky women everywhere, butts everywhere. So I mean,

564
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,119
it's very absurd that this nude art is everywhere. But

565
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:12,960
at the same time we're told about this, you know,

566
00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:16,719
absurd doctrine of mortal venial sins, which is not what

567
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:17,760
first John's talking about.

568
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 5: It's not a distinction between mortal and menial sins, by

569
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,440
the way, anyway.

570
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,159
Speaker 1: So that with that in mind, that always stuck out

571
00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:26,159
to me as a problem. And so I think that

572
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,239
Preluss is a much better example of explaining what's going

573
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,679
on here when we have Fassina Kowalska claiming that the

574
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,320
host floats around the room to her and Jesus told

575
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,719
her personally, you're my favorite of all the nuns. We're

576
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,840
basically boyfriend girlfriend. All this kind of absurdity which is

577
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,519
nowhere in an Orthodox spirituality at all. And the fact

578
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:50,960
that Rome Catholicism accepts Orthodox spirituality in terms of unionism,

579
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,639
which is just a plot actually to bring people back

580
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:58,360
onto the dominance of the Roman bishop, shows that there's

581
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,559
not a unified experience of God in the Realmian calogy church.

582
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:04,840
You can't have this absurd sexual imagery and weird stuff

583
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,719
being true and the stigmata being true at the same

584
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,760
time as the stuff over here with Oh, but we

585
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,159
also accept Palamism, you know, since we've made Palamas a

586
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,360
saint in our unit it circles and we know accept him.

587
00:36:18,639 --> 00:36:21,280
None of that makes any sense. It's all completely contradictory.

588
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,840
And what it shows is that the evolution of dogma

589
00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:28,159
the umbrella of Rome is really just an umbrella of

590
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,280
the power of the papacy, and we're seeing that unravel now.

591
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,360
But so let's talk about those spiritual practices I remember,

592
00:36:36,599 --> 00:36:39,239
you know, as finally it was. It was Larshae when

593
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,400
I got a hold of Thank you to Father Moody

594
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,599
for sending me the Larshae trilogy where he talks about

595
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:48,719
the healing of spiritual illnesses, and that to me really

596
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,840
solidified the difference between the way that we view the

597
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,559
body the way that we view the practices of asceticism.

598
00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:58,000
In the East, it's different than it is in the West.

599
00:36:58,039 --> 00:37:02,159
You're not flagellating yourself, you're not mortifying the body. The

600
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:05,679
body is participating in theosis, and so that the purpose

601
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,599
of asceticism is completely different.

602
00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:09,639
Speaker 5: So I'll let you have the floor now after my

603
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:10,199
little rant.

604
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, correct, So I will first start by addressing

605
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,519
something a lot of people accuse us, you know, of

606
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,960
hitting low and criticizing satans on We don't. We don't

607
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,440
criticize the person. We just say that here's the devotions

608
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,199
are not good and and yes we need to point

609
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:28,920
that out. And you know it's been down through the

610
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,480
forms of meme and stuff like this, because not everybody can,

611
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:37,039
you know, go on a theology debate and at some

612
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:40,800
at some point people need to see I believe people,

613
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,960
can you know I'm not appealing to emotion here, but

614
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:47,280
people can feel what's right what's wrong, and we can

615
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,159
and here we're gonna express didn't discuss, you know, the differences.

616
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,559
But yes, I believe that this is a talking point.

617
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,159
It's not eating low, it's not slendering. It's talking about

618
00:37:57,159 --> 00:37:58,880
this practices which exists.

619
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: Just say hitting low, yeah, like a low blow.

620
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, okay, Yeah, we've been criticized for this. It

621
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,960
is very interesting. And and yes, first of all, we

622
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:15,480
can see that Orthodox theology not the body, and this

623
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:17,599
is not a book by lash, it's just a great,

624
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,079
great theology in the theology of the body. It just

625
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:25,920
expresses the classic autogous point of view that believe in

626
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,639
a fallen world, fallen nature, and all bodies actually healed

627
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,199
by the Divinity. And we can see that it culminates

628
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:44,760
in theosis, the theosis healing people and the light of Tabor.

629
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,880
This is the ultimate mark of sanctity in Orthodox Church.

630
00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: And that's unified across the board. We don't think it's

631
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,360
different for anybody.

632
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we for example, we we had a lot

633
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,599
of Western Saint like John Cassion who actually was a Parlamite,

634
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,719
so to say like, yeah, they are part of this

635
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:12,079
tradition of in this view of sanctity, and what we

636
00:39:12,119 --> 00:39:16,519
can see in Rome, especially after the schism, is that

637
00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:22,000
it's totally reversed. Like we we see the appearance of

638
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,960
devotional hurting, like it's not fasting, it's not, it's it's

639
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,119
really hurting yourself, altering yourself. This is already against going

640
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:36,519
against canons Canon twenty twenty four of Saint Basil. If

641
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:40,280
I remember well forbids you know self harm is it

642
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,960
basically says that it's on the same level as killing.

643
00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:46,800
You cannot you cannot hurt your flesh because you're fleshed

644
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:52,079
participate of this. That's ale link to many things, you know,

645
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,760
or we are buried, the belief in reincarnation, so on.

646
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,760
And we see not only people like flash people that

647
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,599
start to hurt them to want to experience pain, but

648
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:11,079
we also see marks of sanctity that are alterations of

649
00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:14,199
the body and that are painful, you know. And we

650
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,679
know that pain comes from the fault. It's not divine.

651
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:20,360
It's not coming back to the original adamic state. It's

652
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,360
not you know, the pain is the result of the fall.

653
00:40:23,639 --> 00:40:26,599
You cannot be divinized into a result of the fall.

654
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,000
And that's exactly what the stigma is. And if you

655
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:33,840
look at it, for example, the ones of Patrick Pierre

656
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:39,920
very very noticeable, they look purulent, you know, some people

657
00:40:40,639 --> 00:40:43,400
purulent like basically some people even compared it to like

658
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,440
it says it looks like her pies or it looks

659
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:48,800
like it looks like you s won't and it actually hurt.

660
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,840
And this is a complete it's a completement version. And

661
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,840
even if we look at earlier Catholic things, they were associated,

662
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:04,320
you know, with motition, miracles, healing for example.

663
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 5: This is a great point.

664
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that that there's gifts of healing according

665
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:11,280
to Saint Paul, and there have been many healers. And

666
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,320
then suddenly though in the Middle Ages, after we get

667
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,000
this schism, the Roman Catholic Church begins to develop these

668
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:21,119
very bizarre practices that this is a great point. That

669
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,719
seem to be obsessed with paying debts through pain, and

670
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,719
I think we have to mention indulgences and the paying

671
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,360
of debts too, because that's a big part of it.

672
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,960
Even though the official Roman Cathology might not ultimately condone

673
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,480
that although indulgences are a false doctrine, the idea is

674
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,400
still there. That you're kind of paying for things, paying

675
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,480
for temporal punishments.

676
00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:48,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of the percent penal substitution theologic. So yes,

677
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,639
you have these marks appearing, and that's very that's a

678
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:59,000
total invention, and that's that's very we have to say

679
00:41:59,039 --> 00:42:01,679
the least. We're going to address some of the most

680
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:06,119
famous ones, for example, Francis a Sisi and Francis a Sisi.

681
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,239
You know, we have father serp In Rose who acily

682
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,760
wrote about this and he said that it can it

683
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,960
can well be prolete, it can be fake, but you

684
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,639
believe that there was some idea of you know, it

685
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,800
being psychosomatic. And this is very much linked too. And

686
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,400
we're going to talk about the Jesuits now very much

687
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,000
linked to the introduction by many Jesuits of the idea

688
00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:36,320
of emotionality in this cult. So before the cult was

689
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,639
removing your emotions, removing uh these things and you know,

690
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,360
being ascended through the removal of emotions, you know, saying

691
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,239
John Cassion called all these emotions spirits like the related

692
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,639
to demons, like a whole set of little demons that

693
00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:53,800
can pull you down.

694
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:55,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is pretty key. I want to

695
00:42:55,519 --> 00:42:59,039
stress this. This is something that is in the debate

696
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:03,159
between the barley Mite and Palamas, he talks about this

697
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,840
very point where he says that the passions are not

698
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,119
inherently evil in themselves per se, but what happens is

699
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:12,800
that when we follow them in an inordinate way, it

700
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,880
becomes demonic. And so what happens in asceticism, and the

701
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,440
whole purpose of asceticism is self control, so that we

702
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:23,039
can achieve a state where we're not dominated by our passions.

703
00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:25,079
That's the whole point of this. And what you get

704
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:28,199
here in this stuff is the inversion of that. And

705
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,800
the man's psychology becomes inverted, and it becomes obsessed upon

706
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:38,320
the sort of punishment of the body and the whereas

707
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,800
you have a harmony between man's faculties in the process

708
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,480
of theosis, this gets inverted and you get the dominance

709
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:48,159
of emotionalism. And that's what's so key to here, especially

710
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:51,960
in these weird women saints who think that Jesus is

711
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,840
saying that their boyfriend girlfriend stuff.

712
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to come to that because women were

713
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:03,000
prime target, especially for Jesuits. So yes, basically we have

714
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:07,719
the introduction of emotionality and suggest with a big part

715
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,920
of this and for example, you know Saint Francis Assisi,

716
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,599
and people as this started to picture themselves being crucified,

717
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:17,639
taking the place of Christ. And that's why that's what

718
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:24,360
Father Sefi Rose theorizes. Basically, they would it would be

719
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,159
psychosomatic ones because they would have intense emotion in them

720
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:30,320
all the time, and that at some point the body

721
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,599
would just accept, Okay, I have nails in the hands. Yes.

722
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,679
Speaker 1: And even though that that Filipino practice of doing this

723
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,400
to yourself and doing this on Good Friday is supposedly

724
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,400
officially condemned, the point is that it's you're seeing these manifestations.

725
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,480
I'm not saying that the whole church is false because

726
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:53,280
people who are villagers do these things that are not condoned.

727
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,000
I mean that happens in any religion. But what I'm

728
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,159
saying is that these manifestations are happening because there actually

729
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:02,360
is an around us anthropology and an erroneous doctrine of

730
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,960
how to heal mankind in the Roman Catholic scheme.

731
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:11,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. Correct, And you have this idea of you know

732
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,599
the fact that there is no more exclusivity, and this

733
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:18,960
is probably because of a nestorianism.

734
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: Because there is no more what you say that again,

735
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,480
exclusivity in what sense.

736
00:45:26,199 --> 00:45:30,159
Speaker 3: There's no more, for example, exclusivity of Christ as being divinized,

737
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:33,800
because that's when you see a lot of prophecies being

738
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,639
shifted from Christ to the Theotokos.

739
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: So basically everybody becomes a kind of Christ who can

740
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,760
participate as a sacrifice, is what you're.

741
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:50,159
Speaker 3: Saying, exactly, And that's what for example, if you look

742
00:45:50,199 --> 00:45:54,159
at what Loyola wrote, So the first Jesuit, the guy

743
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:59,280
who funded the it's exactly this. He believes that he lived,

744
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,400
you know, physically with Christ around. He believes that he

745
00:46:04,599 --> 00:46:09,079
was anointed by the Father. And and the term used

746
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:14,280
is associated vives the son. And that's why they took

747
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:21,000
this the name Societa, Yes, the Company of Christ of Jesus.

748
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,440
And they they really were into this historianism, and we

749
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,800
can see it in at every step of the dogmas.

750
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:31,679
Speaker 5: Oh wow, this is this is key, this is key.

751
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,239
Let's let's highlight this. So you're saying.

752
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,599
Speaker 1: That there is an implicit sort of lurking nestorianism in

753
00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:45,719
this idea that there's not one soul son of God

754
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:48,199
who's the divine person of the logos who took on

755
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:53,440
human nature who's in hyposthetized. There's now the possibility in

756
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,280
this mystical union of anybody becoming a participant in their

757
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,039
own kind of little savior in this process of the

758
00:47:01,119 --> 00:47:04,599
crucifixion in their own life. And that's why everybody kind

759
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:07,519
of takes it upon themselves to sort of induce a

760
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:11,960
kind of self sacrifice. Almost, is that what you're saying exactly?

761
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 5: That would a story.

762
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: Not only that, you mentioned a lot of women Saint

763
00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:23,599
who who thought that basically Jesus was there a girlfriendfrid

764
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:27,840
well whatever. Because of this, this removes you know, the

765
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,199
idea of mystical marriage. And this was pointed out. You know,

766
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,679
if the like Theresa Favilla, you know, women who got

767
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:41,039
Catherine of Sienna ala Coq, which is really the worst offender.

768
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,519
People who get like foal skin rings as a wedding gift,

769
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:47,880
People who believe that there is a marriage to be

770
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,880
arranged personally between them and Christ. This this is corrupting

771
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,039
the idea of the mystical marriage of the Church of

772
00:47:56,119 --> 00:48:02,320
Christ into a into an exclusive personal marriage between one

773
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,679
none and Chris y thing.

774
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: So this is this little the error of Nestorianism and Christology.

775
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,360
The same kind of error that would apply to the

776
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,840
the tokos. It's being transferred over to the error in ecclesiology,

777
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,239
that there's one mystical body of Christ, which is the

778
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,440
whole Church, is now being transferred over into the mystical

779
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,320
experiences of the individual saints.

780
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 3: Uh.

781
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: And it's being what's the word I'm looking for, it's

782
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:36,079
overly sensual and it becomes this kind of weird sexualized thing.

783
00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm going to come to the civilized thing.

784
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:48,280
So basically what what we see. Okay, I'm going to

785
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:55,400
take writings by French French priests on the times it

786
00:48:55,559 --> 00:49:00,280
just started to pour in. Okay, this is what after.

787
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,480
I'll probably talk about the Council of Trent first. So

788
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,079
before we talk about all this, I know that there

789
00:49:06,079 --> 00:49:11,239
will be people who start to say that you'll have you,

790
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,639
you can be a Catholic and not be Cheswich, you

791
00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:16,480
can you can do all this and not be ches

792
00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:19,639
which you don't have to accept it. It's just one company.

793
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,800
It goes further than that, and we're going to go

794
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,639
a bit later on. We're going to be go a

795
00:49:25,679 --> 00:49:29,679
bit further later on. If the implication of the Jesuit

796
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:36,760
everything they did are powerful there, but the key in

797
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,760
Catholicism because the leader of the Council of Trent was

798
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:47,199
a Jesuit. It was the general of the Jesuit lanies.

799
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,599
And this council is the basis of Roman Catholic dogma,

800
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,280
so you can't really dodge it, you know. And it's

801
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,639
at this point that they refuse the idea of a

802
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,400
traditional considerasm. And there, of course, during this Council of

803
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,880
Trent where basically this man Lany says that, well, you know,

804
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,519
the church and paraphrasing here of course before anybody is

805
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:19,639
not translating, well enough, well you have people who want

806
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:21,599
to come back to the Church of the Apostle, but

807
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:24,320
there is a time and there is a need. That's

808
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:29,400
what he said. So basically they acknowledge the fact that

809
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,440
they were not following the traditional organization of the church.

810
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,960
And in the same consult the declared that the church

811
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,239
is the slave to the Pope, that the church that

812
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,360
all the bishops are servants to the pope, which was

813
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,199
not the case before.

814
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, just speaking just on this little

815
00:50:46,199 --> 00:50:48,320
side note, isn't it Captain of Sienna who says something

816
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,280
like even if the pope is the devil, we must

817
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,559
obey him.

818
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 3: I don't know.

819
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's Captain of Sienna who has a

820
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,239
famous quote about that that even if the Pope were

821
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:58,880
Satan and he were to come to you, it's your

822
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,000
duty to submit to the pope, even if you say it.

823
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,360
Pretty funny quote. I mean, I know that's not calic, dog.

824
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,039
I just want to throw that one in there. But so, yeah,

825
00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:05,599
so this is good.

826
00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 5: Sorry, go ahead.

827
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's when you see that they start to

828
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,000
infiltrate a lot. So I will go on the politics

829
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,000
side a little bit later. We're going to focus on

830
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:18,000
the weird devotions a bit more. And and I'm going

831
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,599
to quote this uh uh, this French French priest Rucily

832
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,719
wrote writes about suggests and the infiltration most like most

833
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,880
notably in the University of Paris, and he criticizes a doctrine.

834
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: Hold one second something, before you quote that, I just

835
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,760
want to let you know I'm not going anywhere. I'm

836
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,719
going to step away just to pour more coffee. So

837
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:41,920
you do your quote and don't pay any attention to

838
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,519
the fact that I'm stepping away. I'm still here.

839
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:47,079
Speaker 3: You really need to hear that, Okay, let's go.

840
00:51:48,039 --> 00:51:50,159
Speaker 1: Well, no, but if I step away, some people, if

841
00:51:50,199 --> 00:51:52,280
you see me step away, people get distracted and they

842
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,039
think I'm leaving or something. But so go ahead and

843
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:56,880
read your quote, because everybody's seeing the picture of Terresa

844
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:57,320
right now.

845
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So he starts by criticizing their doctrine and then

846
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,719
he says they are spreading into the people, especially among

847
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:14,400
the women Catechism which is filled with some superstition that

848
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:20,000
are here to enslave their mind. So here you can

849
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,719
see that they already saw the primary target, and they

850
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:29,360
already saw that through you know, removing the exclusivity and

851
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:36,280
through putting a lot of emotionality. There are prime targets

852
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,920
in women. And that's when you see, you know, a

853
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:44,480
lot of stigmat appearing, all these weird evotions appearing. And yeah,

854
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:46,519
some of them were clearly in the Storian And we're

855
00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:52,760
going to talk a little bit about about Saint Mary

856
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,159
Margaret Ala Cock.

857
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,519
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, this is a great point too, because yeah,

858
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,000
and we want to keep the Nestorianism in mind, because

859
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:01,440
it is going to be relevant when we get to

860
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:06,039
the issue of a sacred heart, because the heart worship

861
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:09,119
and the sacred heart stuff is a manifestation of what's

862
00:53:09,159 --> 00:53:14,000
explicitly condemned as an historian by the council's officers.

863
00:53:14,039 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 5: So anyway, go ahead.

864
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm going to read what's not read, but

865
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,159
I'm gonna tell what's sweeten, especially about Maggie Mary Margaret

866
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,320
Alacoque in Getta's book, and Getty had access to the

867
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,880
original and the guy who wrote it was a father

868
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:33,199
just with and he was sainted kind of nice simply

869
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:33,960
because he wrote this.

870
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: I've been contradicted, you know, before we go into that,

871
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:41,559
because there may be a lot of people in the

872
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:43,719
chat who aren't familiar with this story. She's the one

873
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,199
who claims that Jesus carved out her heart and put

874
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:48,199
his heart in her right.

875
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So basically all this is serious information. I've

876
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,719
been called many things for putting this forward. If you

877
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,280
look at Catholic apologies to the website, they all contradict themselves.

878
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,840
There's no primary sources. Is the closest thing we can

879
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,119
get to the primary sources, and it tells us that

880
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,719
some of the weird stuff might be in the future

881
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:16,079
destroyed by sess regarding the method. So yes, the woman

882
00:54:17,519 --> 00:54:20,880
I thought she had a special relationship with Christ. She

883
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,440
saw him appear to her at night in a room.

884
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,519
A lot of the time, they would say, they discuss

885
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,679
a lot of things, and here comes a weird devotion,

886
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,800
you know, the devotion that involved blood, and that involves,

887
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,760
you know, the reviving of old Frankish mythos. To just

888
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,840
control the French polation better.

889
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: So be real clear and elaborate that point. Why is

890
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:55,519
this a reference to the old French mythosh.

891
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,199
Speaker 3: So you talk about this on the previous life. Basically

892
00:54:55,599 --> 00:54:57,920
Frankish Frankish.

893
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 1: Hard worship, right, is that where you're getting at?

894
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would have the her worship and

895
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,000
they would have a lot of bloody worship. They will

896
00:55:04,039 --> 00:55:07,159
have violence of blood of the saints. I believe the

897
00:55:07,199 --> 00:55:10,679
blood that some particularities the Franks, I believe there were

898
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,280
different race almost at times, and there they will have

899
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,280
a lot of focus blot and the judgment will use that.

900
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:21,719
And you know that's what this French French priest he

901
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,960
said that they are reviving, Uh, they are reviving superstitions.

902
00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: So the j are capitalizing on the superstition and basically

903
00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:33,960
kind of targeting women for this. That's what's key here.

904
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you see that she did a lot

905
00:55:37,639 --> 00:55:40,039
of crazy stuff, like she claims that after each time

906
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:43,840
they met, she would do blood letting, which is also

907
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,440
linked to the old Frankish tradition of you know, do

908
00:55:47,639 --> 00:55:52,639
blood letting of the meetings between lovers, if not sex.

909
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,719
You will also have this, uh, this tradition no of

910
00:55:57,199 --> 00:56:00,119
taking the organs worshiping them, and that's the whole is

911
00:56:00,119 --> 00:56:03,760
a sacred hurt. That's a that's this that she claims

912
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,159
that the Christ just pulled the herd out of her

913
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:11,039
chest and basically they switched. You will have you know,

914
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:14,960
her carving her breast chest.

915
00:56:15,519 --> 00:56:17,639
Speaker 1: Now, what would you say to somebody who says, just

916
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,719
to play double's advocate, I don't think this. But what

917
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,440
would you say, that's just a symbolic imagery. You're intentionally

918
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,400
uh you know, misrepresent our saints.

919
00:56:30,679 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not, because you know, all these things were

920
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,000
put forward, you know also in the context of the

921
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,280
counter Reformation and this this stuff. You know, this physicality

922
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:45,400
was here in clearer position. Do you know, the more

923
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,639
means the less the new president of So they would

924
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,280
do all they can to push the the emotionalities, they

925
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,960
will do all they can to push the physicalities. They

926
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,800
will do all they can to push you know, your

927
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,519
tocos because yeah, you know, order to plan as a

928
00:57:01,519 --> 00:57:03,960
lot of Protestants, and for the longest time, as this

929
00:57:04,159 --> 00:57:07,880
was believed to be to be true, to to be

930
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,119
actual miracles. And right now you see a lot of

931
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,239
modern Catholics taking the Protestant wrote sadly and starting to

932
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,719
deny the miracles. If I were oppose this kind of criticism,

933
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,480
I would say that if you start denying your miracles,

934
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:27,639
when we deny the transpartantiation in the Eucharist, is this

935
00:57:27,719 --> 00:57:29,159
we believed to be miracles?

936
00:57:29,519 --> 00:57:30,159
Speaker 5: That's a good point.

937
00:57:30,239 --> 00:57:34,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean typically it's not interpreted as merely allegories

938
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:39,039
or spiritual tales. I mean they're interpreted to be real

939
00:57:39,079 --> 00:57:41,880
miracles exactly. That's why they're saints. You can't be a

940
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:45,239
saint in the real mechaolic scheme unless you've you know,

941
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,400
done the vat can approve miracles.

942
00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:52,559
Speaker 3: Exactly. And actually, when the when the stories about the

943
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:56,239
Holy Hurt were being translated into Italian, the Pope God

944
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,119
is and on it and he immediately rejected it. The

945
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:04,360
you know here theological leaders, right, and he he rejected it.

946
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,400
And what it justit did was waiting for the next

947
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,320
pop to come about, and they they started to push it,

948
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,599
and I think they pushed it two more times until

949
00:58:14,679 --> 00:58:21,079
the pope eventually gave in and he said, okay, you

950
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:24,559
you can have this devotion, even if it was forbidden before.

951
00:58:24,679 --> 00:58:27,920
You can have it, but it needs to be the

952
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,880
allegorical hurt so the love of Christ. But of course

953
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,719
they didn't. They didn't care, and even when it was

954
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:39,320
previously forbidden, they would go around and sell little medals,

955
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,360
little books and so on to popularize the myth around

956
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,159
the population. Maybe they didn't hear of people infallibility at

957
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:51,239
the time, but yeah. Basically they would go behind the

958
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:55,440
back of the pope to further the dogma. And even

959
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,079
though the suggests were usually allies of the pope that

960
00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:01,519
would like they are here to his own goals.

961
00:59:03,639 --> 00:59:10,639
Speaker 1: So they were utilizing the superstitions to further their plans,

962
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:15,199
and even under papal suppression, they still continued to do.

963
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:17,159
This is what you're saying, And we should make another

964
00:59:17,159 --> 00:59:19,199
point too that part of the reason for this being

965
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:23,840
a problem is the Jesuit idea of inculturation. If you're

966
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:28,079
not familiar the Jesuit pross approach to missionary work was

967
00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:33,039
different than a lot of the other missionary approaches, both

968
00:59:33,039 --> 00:59:35,719
in the first millennium of the Church and in other

969
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,280
orders like the Dominicans. The Jesuits really pioneered the idea

970
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,119
of inculturation, which was the idea that you kind of

971
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:44,599
just utilize a lot of the ideas that are in

972
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:47,639
the existing culture. Now, everybody who does missionary work to

973
00:59:47,679 --> 00:59:50,639
some degree does some kind of inculturation. I mean, Herman

974
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:53,400
of Alaska did versions of this where he would find

975
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,960
what was good in the Aluit culture and so forth.

976
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,880
So it's not that the whole thing is wrong, and

977
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,639
the whole history of the Church, which is encounter with

978
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:04,320
Hellenism for the first millennium and all the councils dealing

979
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:10,480
with the Hellenic presuppositions, which the Fathers are very clear

980
01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:15,559
that the Christological heresies are all built on Hellenic dialectical presupposition.

981
01:00:15,639 --> 01:00:19,039
So I'm not trying to oversimplify it. But there is

982
01:00:19,079 --> 01:00:22,280
an aspect to which the Jesuit approach was unique because

983
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,880
they were the most extreme when it came to trying

984
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:31,480
to meld the Christianity with the existing culture, and so

985
01:00:31,559 --> 01:00:36,480
they would be the most pioneering of acumenism of all

986
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,280
these different weird practices, and that's why it gets into

987
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:44,039
the weirdness in the period that you're talking about, with

988
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:48,599
the promotion of these devotions that would be in previous

989
01:00:48,639 --> 01:00:52,599
periods seen completely to be absurd. But in the Roman

990
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:55,679
Catholic scheme this is justified by the fact that theology

991
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,639
is always developing, it's always growing. It's a seed that

992
01:00:58,679 --> 01:01:01,960
grows into a giant tree, and that therefore justifies all

993
01:01:02,039 --> 01:01:06,960
of the innovations after the first millennium.

994
01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:10,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and we can go in a bit further,

995
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,320
you know, there's some more points went to cover. So yes,

996
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:18,119
there's this, there is this diversity of devotion and basically

997
01:01:18,159 --> 01:01:21,559
every every thing, every ideology, every people, every group of

998
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:24,719
people will get their own specific devotion, even if it

999
01:01:24,719 --> 01:01:27,760
doesn't make sense. So you will get load for the French,

1000
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,719
you will get Akita for the Japanese. All of them

1001
01:01:31,719 --> 01:01:34,639
are devotion of the Theotocos. You will even have the

1002
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:38,440
Lady of All the Nations, which is a specific devotion

1003
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:42,119
of the Theotokos, which was invented after after World War

1004
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:46,639
two to promote you know, peace in the world. So

1005
01:01:46,679 --> 01:01:51,320
this is just you know, creating devotions, to be interesting,

1006
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,119
to be relevant, to be hip. And again there is

1007
01:01:55,119 --> 01:02:00,920
this specification which is about again showing that there is

1008
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,000
no more exclusivity. You know, the Theotokos is not only Theotokos.

1009
01:02:05,039 --> 01:02:08,960
She's also here to protect Europe, the European Union. She's

1010
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:13,960
here to protect the Japanese specifically, French specifically some children.

1011
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,880
And you have this.

1012
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: She's being used as a geopolitical tool in in much

1013
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,039
the same way as the Jesuits were utilizing a lot

1014
01:02:25,039 --> 01:02:32,639
of these these sort of superstitions as tools of their time, I.

1015
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:35,199
Speaker 3: Mean the emacular conceptions, so mode and stuff like this.

1016
01:02:35,239 --> 01:02:38,360
It was pushed by the Jesuits and some method as

1017
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,960
the as the Sacred heard. You know, there was a

1018
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,239
debate and they pushed it to make it very popular,

1019
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,679
and the Pope was a bit endstiled at some point

1020
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:48,760
because you would lose a lot of people if they

1021
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:55,559
the united So so yes, there is again.

1022
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,719
Speaker 1: And let's not forget that the pioneers and Champions, along

1023
01:02:58,719 --> 01:03:01,480
with the Royal Society of both the Big Bang Darwinian

1024
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:05,039
evolution and the rejection of creation and the Patristic doction

1025
01:03:05,159 --> 01:03:08,760
of creation and the Six Council's profession of faith about

1026
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,880
creation has been none other than the Jesuits. I mean,

1027
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,159
I know that typically Tahar dis Shardine is cited as somebody,

1028
01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:19,320
oh the Vatican censored him. Yeah, But now since he

1029
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,800
was censored, the post Vatican two popes have all made

1030
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:26,760
some very glowing, loving statements about the wonderful theology of

1031
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:29,400
Tahard de Shardin. And what did I just post on

1032
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,920
the Twitter this this week from Father Surfin Rose and

1033
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,280
his magisterial book Genesis, Creation and Early Man was the

1034
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:40,239
fact that Tahar de Shardin claims that he became convinced

1035
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:44,199
of his evolutionary dogmas because he talked to the thing.

1036
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,039
I am not joking. He literally claims to have been

1037
01:03:47,119 --> 01:03:50,840
walking in a desert talking to the thing literal John

1038
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:55,440
Carpenter level theology, and the thing told him that everything

1039
01:03:55,519 --> 01:04:01,159
is material evolutionary flux, progressing towards the Omega point, the newosphere,

1040
01:04:01,239 --> 01:04:03,920
et cetera, et cetera. So here are the champions of

1041
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:07,039
the rejection of the doctrine of creation none other than

1042
01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:10,400
the Jesuits. And so I've really been struck this last

1043
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,280
week by the fact that, I mean I knew this

1044
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,119
in the past, because I've read three or four books

1045
01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:17,800
on Jesuits over the last ten or twelve years. But

1046
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,559
it's really struck me how instrumental they've been in pushing

1047
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,880
fraud paleontology, particularly Tahart, who was present at many of

1048
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:27,760
the paleontological frauds.

1049
01:04:28,159 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 5: Pilt down Man, this kind of stuff.

1050
01:04:30,239 --> 01:04:35,159
Speaker 1: They've been central in promoting Lemitra the Big Bang, which

1051
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:39,000
is a secularized version. So the Jesuits are so interested

1052
01:04:39,239 --> 01:04:44,360
in culturation that they're even trying to water things down

1053
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,239
for all the atheists, right. And what we noticed this

1054
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:53,360
week as well was that the natural theology propositions and

1055
01:04:53,519 --> 01:04:57,360
Aquinas's acceptance of death existing before the fall, it's only

1056
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,880
natural in Humani generis, Pope Piesta twelve wealth would so

1057
01:05:01,079 --> 01:05:08,239
easily accept theistic evolution. This is what natural theology is

1058
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,639
a big part of this. And natural theology is just

1059
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,280
part and parcel of this overall Nestorian doctrine that you're

1060
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,880
talking about. That the Jesuits are really pioneering here because

1061
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,480
it's a Nestorian, because perennialism is a Nestorian. In fact,

1062
01:05:20,559 --> 01:05:24,599
you can go look up that Perennialist James Custinger, he

1063
01:05:24,679 --> 01:05:26,599
has a talk where he said that they ask him

1064
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,719
why did you become why did you move away from

1065
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:33,400
Orthodoxy towards perennialism, And he says, because Jesus is just

1066
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:38,199
an avatar of this overriding God that we can all

1067
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,639
experience and all be a part of. That's an Nestorian.

1068
01:05:41,719 --> 01:05:45,599
He literally says, Jesus is a human person and the

1069
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:50,280
son of God. Is this mystical experience across all the religions,

1070
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:55,480
and that's why that's the secret, you could say, to Nestorianism,

1071
01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:58,719
to all the hermeticism, that's the secret to this garbage

1072
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:03,440
of Tahart and the Jesuit Is this undergirding Nestorianism that

1073
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,920
you pointed out, This is this is devastating.

1074
01:06:07,079 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also some healthy level of originism. You know,

1075
01:06:10,239 --> 01:06:13,400
the idea of Christ as returning as a spherical form.

1076
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, the body.

1077
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:19,159
Speaker 1: It's not an actual body, it's the higher spherical form

1078
01:06:19,239 --> 01:06:22,159
that we're all transformed into in the resurrection.

1079
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. I just wanted to cover one or two more topics,

1080
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,760
not directly to the jugement, and then we'll switch to

1081
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:36,159
the very political idea of the Jesuits. But when it

1082
01:06:36,239 --> 01:06:39,800
comes to the theology of the body, we can also

1083
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,840
see discrepancies. So we talked about the sigma. First of all,

1084
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:48,840
this little football thought. It is a painful mark that

1085
01:06:49,079 --> 01:06:54,280
appeared mystically on people that made them recognizable, and it

1086
01:06:54,519 --> 01:06:58,960
was after the schism. It sounds eerily similar to the

1087
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,440
mark of kine, you know, stually, the fact that it's visible, painful,

1088
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,920
and things like this just foot for thought and and

1089
01:07:07,079 --> 01:07:10,599
I want to touch really quickly and the idea of interruption,

1090
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,400
because the idea of interruption is also different, it has

1091
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:19,559
been altered. And so interruption basically is the idea that

1092
01:07:20,199 --> 01:07:22,960
people that have been touched by the spirit, saints and

1093
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,199
people like this, their body will not corrupt, they will

1094
01:07:26,239 --> 01:07:32,719
not decay as preparently or as passed. And this has

1095
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:39,239
been observed in Orthodoxy for quite a while. And what

1096
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:45,079
we can see is the is that the Catholic, especially

1097
01:07:45,239 --> 01:07:48,079
the New Saints, the very popular one is they are

1098
01:07:48,119 --> 01:07:50,679
trying to cover it. So for example, if you look

1099
01:07:50,719 --> 01:07:53,800
at an Orthodox incorrupted saying, you will see, for example,

1100
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:58,920
since spirital since Spiriton is currently residing on the island

1101
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:03,079
of Corfe, and so he was a father parcipate as

1102
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:06,920
the Council of Nicea. So that's very early, and they

1103
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,880
he basically looks like a mummy, but he's still you know,

1104
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:14,039
supple is flexible. His skin doesn't break, and things like this.

1105
01:08:14,599 --> 01:08:18,279
It doesn't it doesn't look pretty, but it's it's interrupted.

1106
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,600
It's not you know, the French is not rotting and

1107
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,239
things like this. This is interruption. Actually you can you

1108
01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:26,840
can go there sometimes sometimes of the year and they

1109
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,079
will give you relics of him. You know, they would

1110
01:08:29,119 --> 01:08:31,840
just change his clothes and and give you your relics

1111
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,239
of him. I think my girlfriend has even got one

1112
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:35,960
from there, which is very cool.

1113
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:36,079
Speaker 5: You know.

1114
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 3: That's another way to be connected. Previ at the Kubi

1115
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,920
may and and in the meantime you will see in

1116
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:48,760
the Catholic Church, for example, for the the Lord Revelation.

1117
01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:55,640
So it's it was Bernardette Subiru, which is so a

1118
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,119
miracle that confirmed the dogma, which is also something very

1119
01:08:58,159 --> 01:09:01,039
interesting because miracles start to from dog mouse starts to

1120
01:09:01,039 --> 01:09:04,039
confirm that the pope is right, which is very interesting.

1121
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:09,760
She she was believed to be in corrupted and they

1122
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,039
basically put a layer of wax on her face and

1123
01:09:14,159 --> 01:09:18,479
claimed yeah, she's corrupted and and things like this, and

1124
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:25,039
when they exhubit, they realized that she wasn't, so they

1125
01:09:25,039 --> 01:09:29,000
actually had to redo the wax thing, or actually they

1126
01:09:29,039 --> 01:09:31,359
did it just after. But the idea is that no,

1127
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,319
there is not even there's not anymore the thissunderstanding of incorruption.

1128
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:40,520
You know, incorruption must be spotless. It must be you know, perfuction,

1129
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:47,880
it must be ah ah yeah, it must really imitate life.

1130
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:52,199
It's not showing something particular, it's it's it's aping it.

1131
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,840
And we can see it with Pard Pierre as well.

1132
01:09:56,279 --> 01:10:04,439
Pard Pierre, you know, he's got a very h is

1133
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:06,800
animated in the church and you can see it basically

1134
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:10,279
looks like a snow white is in a glass coffin

1135
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:14,239
and in there he's got a silicon mask on his face.

1136
01:10:15,319 --> 01:10:18,840
So no, there is this theology of the flesh of bodies,

1137
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:23,840
a blood, bloody devotion push off. The Roman Church cannot

1138
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,279
given snowashing.

1139
01:10:27,039 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's funny. He does look like snow white.

1140
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:36,119
Speaker 3: That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. There is this idea of the

1141
01:10:36,359 --> 01:10:38,479
contactcept interruption is they need to if you think it,

1142
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,159
they need to cover it to mask it. And of

1143
01:10:40,239 --> 01:10:42,279
course he shows intent and things like this.

1144
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:44,239
Speaker 1: Now, this is kind of new to me because I

1145
01:10:44,279 --> 01:10:47,239
never really paid attention to this aspect. I didn't go

1146
01:10:47,359 --> 01:10:49,960
see you know, Patrick Pio or anything. And do Roman

1147
01:10:50,039 --> 01:10:53,800
Catholics try to defend a silicon mask or do they

1148
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,439
say it doesn't exist or you're just making that up

1149
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,399
or what's the usual response to this?

1150
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 3: Oh, you will have a lot of responses. You know,

1151
01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:06,760
basically it's I don't know what the official stance is

1152
01:11:07,319 --> 01:11:09,880
that you know, if it really was was not a problem,

1153
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:14,560
why why put a silicon mask on you? So you

1154
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,279
have a lot of people who say is incorrupted. For example,

1155
01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:20,600
Vi Bernard and Subiru. They had to retract the claims

1156
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,439
of interruption, I believe because they realized she was not interrupted.

1157
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,439
You know, even behind that works.

1158
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: Really, so yeah, they retracted incorrupt incruptibility on Bernadette.

1159
01:11:33,039 --> 01:11:35,199
Speaker 5: I didn't I didn't wrong. I just didn't know that.

1160
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,199
Speaker 3: I should look it further. But basically, there were there

1161
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:44,000
were claims, and there were it was confirmed that yes,

1162
01:11:44,039 --> 01:11:47,960
her body did corrupt. And that's what you see is

1163
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,439
the whole theology of the body is a full inversion,

1164
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,960
and you know, sometimes it's going the other way around.

1165
01:11:53,079 --> 01:11:56,520
Sometimes it's it's pushing as far as possible, and we

1166
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,680
didn't have that in the West originally. You know, I

1167
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,840
come from as Us in a very important sayings there.

1168
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:06,039
Speaker 5: You come from where from basically a region.

1169
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 3: Of friends, and they have once we have they were

1170
01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:13,960
as yeah, and we had this thing. For example, Saint Adelia,

1171
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,279
the first miracle was that she was born blind and

1172
01:12:17,359 --> 01:12:22,760
she was cured for healed of blindness. It was all

1173
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:26,119
about healing. And then you start to see things.

1174
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:26,159
Speaker 5: Like this.

1175
01:12:28,079 --> 01:12:32,279
Speaker 3: New kind of miracles. There is this still today. You

1176
01:12:32,319 --> 01:12:35,840
will see people being very product The euchary is bled.

1177
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,199
The euchar is blood, and we have say we've blood

1178
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:42,000
that coagulates and decoagulates, and.

1179
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:43,239
Speaker 5: Well it doesn't.

1180
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 1: There's one of those where they actually claim that Jesus

1181
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,600
is blood like you know, like it returns. And there

1182
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,800
was a priest who supposedly wrote a book because he

1183
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,960
did a DNA test on the blood. He was going

1184
01:12:53,039 --> 01:12:55,680
to find out Jesus DNA from this.

1185
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 3: There were they will claim. You know, it's very old,

1186
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:04,079
that commune way. First you know that it's been attested

1187
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:05,760
for a very long time. But we know that they

1188
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:10,720
didn't have been used as zoom as bread. Yeah, after

1189
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:11,439
all the claims.

1190
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:12,279
Speaker 5: That's a good point.

1191
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,359
Speaker 3: So, yes, this fixational blood and I think ultimately when

1192
01:13:16,399 --> 01:13:18,560
you talk about ron Catholic and I will end on that.

1193
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,520
Speaker 2: You know, for the.

1194
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:26,079
Speaker 3: For the weird devotion, people can feel at some point,

1195
01:13:26,119 --> 01:13:29,039
you know, they can feel that, Okay, we're not seeing

1196
01:13:29,119 --> 01:13:31,720
the glory of God. We are trying to marry more

1197
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:36,760
than anything else we are. We are not seeing as glorious.

1198
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,439
We're seeing Him as you know, in pain. There is

1199
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:44,319
statues with blood painting on it. The human aspect is

1200
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:48,279
very much brought forward because of course there is latent assurnism.

1201
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,359
It's a very mutagenic topma. You know, it's it can

1202
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,439
fly under the radar because you know, it's trinitarian. Christ

1203
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,439
is still God. But at the same time it allows

1204
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,039
for a lot of yeah, personal stuff.

1205
01:14:02,359 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. Ultimately, Yeah, we want to

1206
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,600
highlight the Nestorian aspect of this, which is good.

1207
01:14:07,279 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 5: That's really good.

1208
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,039
Speaker 3: And I when I go further on then Asturianism, and

1209
01:14:10,039 --> 01:14:14,760
I'm gonna start a part in the Jesuit purely the Jesuits.

1210
01:14:15,319 --> 01:14:18,760
I like to attribute you know, Messianic prophecies to other people.

1211
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:22,359
Basically everything about the rock in in the Old Testament

1212
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:23,439
will be a beer of.

1213
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not fulfillments of Christ. It's everything is about

1214
01:14:26,079 --> 01:14:26,840
Peter exactly.

1215
01:14:28,039 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you will have you know, the crushing the head

1216
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:35,840
of the snake, which is all about the Theotokos, not

1217
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:40,319
not the Messiah. And they even start to attribute themselves

1218
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:47,560
as the Jesuits prophecies. For example, there's a prophecy of

1219
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:54,960
yes Issaiah which says that I don't remember exactly if

1220
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:57,000
it's it's It says something about being nurtured by the

1221
01:14:57,119 --> 01:15:02,239
state and Hu sucking on the breast of the gentiles,

1222
01:15:02,319 --> 01:15:05,439
you know, the kingdoms and so on. And they said, yes,

1223
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,119
this isn't the book.

1224
01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know the prophecy. I think it's I think

1225
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,800
it's as the forty two or forty five, and yeah,

1226
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,920
it talks about the conversion of kings to the church.

1227
01:15:16,359 --> 01:15:21,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. And they basically claim that this prophecy applies to

1228
01:15:21,399 --> 01:15:26,039
them as the associat I used to buy itself because

1229
01:15:26,119 --> 01:15:28,920
they they had friends in high places, because they were

1230
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:32,640
helped by the friends. This isn't the first the books

1231
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,479
that basically record the just with history of the first century,

1232
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,880
they're talking about all this. So they start to attribute

1233
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:46,760
prophecies to the company itself, which is very interesting, and

1234
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,399
we can see that really quickly it became a church

1235
01:15:51,399 --> 01:15:55,000
inside the church. And for example, you will have them

1236
01:15:56,319 --> 01:15:59,399
come to the University of Paris, which I mentioned before,

1237
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:04,359
and several times they would go into trial, you know,

1238
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:10,000
to to claim they basically claim university chairs and this

1239
01:16:10,079 --> 01:16:12,199
is the University of Paris was like, okay, we can

1240
01:16:12,279 --> 01:16:15,039
do that, but you need to specify what are you?

1241
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,920
Are you laity, are you a monk? Are you a priest?

1242
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:23,279
What's going on here? And they played on this. They

1243
01:16:23,359 --> 01:16:28,279
played on the fact that the Jesuits are organized, there

1244
01:16:28,359 --> 01:16:31,880
is a solid core and then there's everything that that's

1245
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:36,800
gravitating around it. And they would actually use these status

1246
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,680
you know, in many of their operations, and that's all.

1247
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:44,520
They will push people. They will push people in high

1248
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,840
places and sometimes they were not even they did not

1249
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:49,920
even have such adult of charge. And we can see

1250
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:56,039
that there were paper balls. So I'm gonna name the balls.

1251
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:04,479
It's Regimini Bilitantiscleasia, which is the first one exposit deby

1252
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:11,640
two and these two balls basically said that from none

1253
01:17:12,279 --> 01:17:15,439
the Jesuits will have free reign whenever they come to

1254
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:21,439
a place. Uh, the bishop bishops have to conform to them.

1255
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:26,600
They cannot be excommunicated. They need to be listened to.

1256
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,159
When it comes to theology. They have the right to

1257
01:17:29,239 --> 01:17:33,039
absolve people, so they basically they have the sussible to

1258
01:17:33,279 --> 01:17:36,159
charge even when some of them are just lated. They're

1259
01:17:36,199 --> 01:17:40,840
not priests. And you can see here one of the

1260
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:46,760
fulfillment of the Trulo Council, the Truelo Console for bids.

1261
01:17:47,319 --> 01:17:53,520
You know, congregation congregations that are that are following specific rules,

1262
01:17:54,319 --> 01:17:56,640
so orders of people and yes.

1263
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:58,600
Speaker 5: Let's make that point. Let's make that point here.

1264
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 1: So Trollo the Quinness Council is important because it was

1265
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,800
accepted at Nicia too. So this is an earlier almost

1266
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:09,960
ecumenical council that eventually does get and receives ratification at

1267
01:18:10,039 --> 01:18:13,760
NICEA two the seventh Ecamenical Council, and the Roman Catholics

1268
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:17,520
typically will admit that, but they'll just rebut by saying, oh,

1269
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,760
but the Pope, because of his supremacy, can go back

1270
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,199
through and pick out the fur four canons of Trollo

1271
01:18:23,279 --> 01:18:25,239
that he doesn't like, and that's why they don't hold it.

1272
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:27,800
This because Trollo also says there should be married clergy,

1273
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,640
and the Roman Catholics respond by saying, well, yeah, but

1274
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,520
the Pope just decided that that's that's not true. So

1275
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,520
they're doing the same thing here with the religious orders.

1276
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:39,000
That's why there's not all these different crazy orders and Orthodoxy.

1277
01:18:39,079 --> 01:18:42,000
There's no Franciscans and Carmelites and all that. There's just

1278
01:18:42,199 --> 01:18:43,720
monastics or not.

1279
01:18:45,319 --> 01:18:50,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and yeah yeah. So basically, Trullo so that

1280
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:52,720
if you start to make orders the specific rules and

1281
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,319
people that are sworn to each other.

1282
01:18:54,319 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like secret societies.

1283
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:59,319
Speaker 3: Basically, it will end up in secret society. It basically

1284
01:18:59,359 --> 01:19:03,479
said that since secret societies are crime already, let's make

1285
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:09,560
things that becomes secret society anathema. That's basically what said.

1286
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,000
So yes, so they started to organize them stuff, and

1287
01:19:14,039 --> 01:19:17,119
they got a huge reach because that very specific method.

1288
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,399
So first of all, they came about in a time

1289
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:23,800
where you know, monastic orders were not doing so well.

1290
01:19:24,039 --> 01:19:28,520
The Pope had finished these cruiseades against the mystics, and

1291
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,399
at the same time you had gone to Reformation coming in.

1292
01:19:33,239 --> 01:19:36,760
So the Jesuits were very effective because there they were

1293
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:40,640
organized as an army Loyola used to be a military

1294
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,920
man as they took control of a lot of stuff.

1295
01:19:45,239 --> 01:19:49,720
And for example, we have many many instances of them antagonizing,

1296
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:54,600
antagonizing the present population, even even through dogma. You know,

1297
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:56,640
the concelt of Trent was that. But as Jesuit and

1298
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,399
there is there is all these things to to push

1299
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,319
against the plant, to further the split between the Presistants

1300
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,560
and the Catholic That's when you see start to see

1301
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,279
like a lot of focus on the course because the

1302
01:20:09,319 --> 01:20:12,640
president ate it and so on. It communicated in massacres.

1303
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:17,079
You have massacres for example in Portugal, whether the Jesuit

1304
01:20:17,119 --> 01:20:22,560
would just come in antagonize the population, gets pre made

1305
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:27,399
absolution and just lead mobs of people to the Protestants.

1306
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:31,279
You have stuff like this in Poland. In Poland, there

1307
01:20:31,359 --> 01:20:35,239
used to be this. In Poland was very Central Europe.

1308
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:39,720
There were between there were Catholic, but they were between

1309
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:45,199
the president German states and between Orthodox the Slavic Orthodox

1310
01:20:45,279 --> 01:20:48,520
nations and that really great king. At some point we

1311
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:53,720
proclaimed religious freedom. I'm not saying Prestin is the school.

1312
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,880
I'm not saying we should not fight against it in

1313
01:20:56,039 --> 01:20:58,920
any capacity, you know, especially from the Roman Catholic side

1314
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:03,079
of things. But this thing will proclaim Rich's freedom. And

1315
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:08,680
as soon as he died, the Jesuits started to push

1316
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:13,439
for I think it was Henry's Henry the third, so

1317
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:19,560
Duke of Andrew, and they excited him into just attacking

1318
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:26,520
and antagonizing Orthodox and president that when you see the path,

1319
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,640
the political path of Poland, but was still at this

1320
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:34,079
point because the antagonist the president and the Germans and

1321
01:21:34,239 --> 01:21:36,399
the orthodox in the Russians, and you know, this nation

1322
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:40,680
later on was crushed several times between these two nations

1323
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:44,920
because of political actions like this, and even today, you know,

1324
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:49,359
you'll have a lot of you know, traads claiming, yeah,

1325
01:21:49,399 --> 01:21:53,479
Poland is this very rad thing. It's it's a traditional

1326
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,720
Catholicism first of all, in the way they expressed their religiousity,

1327
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:00,960
it's kind of similar to Orthodoxy because a Slavic component,

1328
01:22:01,239 --> 01:22:06,560
every Slavic, every slav people are to some exchange sons

1329
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:12,000
and daughters of Sarah and Methodius. And you know, Polish

1330
01:22:12,039 --> 01:22:14,760
people should be proud of this because this actly destroys

1331
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:17,680
the country two times. There's actually had some good things

1332
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,680
going on before in terms of really stories. Yeah, it

1333
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:24,000
was even famously the only country which did nothing against

1334
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,840
the Jews. So the main idea is that anywhere the

1335
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:32,840
Jews the Jesuit would come, it would be a mess.

1336
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 1: And that a second well, this is interesting because this

1337
01:22:37,279 --> 01:22:40,920
completely flips, you know, by the time of the twentieth

1338
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:44,119
century with John Courtney Murray and the Jesuits that were

1339
01:22:44,359 --> 01:22:46,239
very influential at Vatican two.

1340
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,279
Speaker 5: Uh, you know, even even the.

1341
01:22:49,319 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 1: Fake trad like Malachai Martin kind of he details all

1342
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,399
this at Vatican two and the different peritis periti that

1343
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,520
were consulting at Vatican two. Malchai Martin was consultant with

1344
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,520
Cardinal and then we have John Corney Murray being the

1345
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:08,279
champion of religious liberty and the idea of removing the

1346
01:23:09,119 --> 01:23:11,600
notion of a confessional state. That was what he was

1347
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,920
the point man for that. He's even being lauded as

1348
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:18,239
you can see here and it's always backwards in American

1349
01:23:18,359 --> 01:23:22,880
magazine as the champion of religious freedom. And this is

1350
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:24,960
why I have to stress one of the most important

1351
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,640
books if you want to understand traditional Catholicism Vatican two

1352
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,800
and understanding it from the Jesuit and the geopolitical angle,

1353
01:23:32,039 --> 01:23:36,640
is the David Wimhoff book John Courtney Murray Time Life

1354
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,000
in the American Proposition. Now, I know this book is

1355
01:23:39,039 --> 01:23:41,560
a little expensive, but it's actually worth having because it

1356
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:46,279
shows the CIA's doctrinal warfare program is where they allied

1357
01:23:46,359 --> 01:23:50,119
with the Jesuits to steer the Roman Catholic Church, particularly

1358
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:52,760
at the time of Vatican Two and after Vatican Two,

1359
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:56,359
into being a tool of the Cold War to promote Americanism.

1360
01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:00,359
So to promote Americanism, they needed a front up people

1361
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:06,119
within Roman Catholicism who were willing to go against the

1362
01:24:06,199 --> 01:24:10,520
idea of a confessional state to champion religious liberty and freedom.

1363
01:24:11,359 --> 01:24:14,000
Which is ironic because this sounds very contrary to you know,

1364
01:24:14,199 --> 01:24:20,000
previous Vatican MASSI I mean Jesuit machinations, And it is ironic.

1365
01:24:20,079 --> 01:24:23,920
And that's because and one can debate the whole meaning

1366
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,560
of the Jesuits over the centuries, but regardless, in the

1367
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:31,439
twentieth century they become the leaders of the revolution within

1368
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,479
the Roman Catholic sphere. And there's many reasons for that.

1369
01:24:36,039 --> 01:24:38,479
There's older reasons that you've been pointing out. The deal

1370
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:40,560
with the kind of the implicit heresies and the implicit

1371
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:44,359
historianism and culturation that's present amongst the Jesuits, but at

1372
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:46,720
least in the twentieth century. What Wimhoff is documented in

1373
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:48,520
his book, and this is eight hundred pages of a

1374
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:52,680
thousand plus footnotes, as the traditional Catholic himself, he's documented

1375
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:56,960
the fact that this is quite literally a known CIA program,

1376
01:24:57,359 --> 01:25:00,399
and the CIA program was successful in turning the Roman

1377
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:03,880
Catholic Church into a branch and arm of Americanism, and

1378
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,760
the Jesuits were at the forefront of that. That's very

1379
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:08,680
important to understand. So and by the way, I'm not

1380
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:10,479
saying that the Jesuits run the world. This is not

1381
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:14,000
This is not a book that's like kookie level conspiracy stuff.

1382
01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:16,760
This is like actual intelligence level research stuff here.

1383
01:25:17,079 --> 01:25:18,319
Speaker 5: That's what wim Hoff's book is.

1384
01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:21,359
Speaker 1: Okay, it's nothing to do with black assassins of the

1385
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:23,439
underground layers of the Vatican. That's not what we're talking

1386
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,760
about here. We're talking about real, legit, hardcore documentation written

1387
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,640
by I believe Wimhoff is a lawyer. So he's obsessively

1388
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:34,039
documented this with with like a thousand footnotes, and it's

1389
01:25:34,079 --> 01:25:36,600
a really solid piece of research. It's a huge key

1390
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:40,199
to understand the twentieth century in Vatican two. And I'm

1391
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,720
I'm this is somebody who coming from somebody wh used

1392
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:44,800
to be a traditional Catholic, who spent many years in

1393
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:49,000
that world devouring traditional Catholic books, from the SSPX to

1394
01:25:49,039 --> 01:25:52,600
the FSSP, to Michael Davies to the Sada's to all those.

1395
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:54,239
I just devoured all that stuff.

1396
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 5: From many many years.

1397
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,159
Speaker 1: I've even read the liberals like Xavier Wren, Paul Blanchard,

1398
01:25:58,199 --> 01:26:01,199
I've read them all, and this is the best book

1399
01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:04,560
to understand the geopolitical ramifications of Attican too.

1400
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 5: In the relationship to the Jesuits.

1401
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually I focused on them more ruthless. You know,

1402
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:15,760
ways to gain power in Europe, you know, because it

1403
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:19,279
is true sometimes they will even claim in their oath

1404
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:24,239
to be able to be kingmakers and where in the past.

1405
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:29,760
But you see that this idea of adapting to culture.

1406
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:35,800
It has been promoted, especially during the colonization era, because

1407
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:40,600
they were very important in terms of colonization. And you

1408
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,760
will have records of them going to the Indians, starting

1409
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:45,720
to play dress up as Indians.

1410
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,600
Speaker 1: You will have who's the one that went to the

1411
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:53,760
Japanese member him he's well known for this, like the

1412
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,960
Japanese Jesuit guy and he's all dressed out like he's

1413
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:58,000
a freaking samurai.

1414
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 5: It's pretty funny.

1415
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know the specifics, but the Jesuits are

1416
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:10,680
very famous, you know in Japan or in famous because

1417
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:15,920
during the period of civil wars, the single Guidi, there

1418
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,159
would be an influence and there will as spies, you know,

1419
01:27:18,319 --> 01:27:19,600
basically they will travel VIP.

1420
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:22,239
Speaker 1: The they were This is important point, thank you. Yes,

1421
01:27:22,399 --> 01:27:26,880
they were the essentially functioned in part as spies for

1422
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:27,279
the Batican.

1423
01:27:27,359 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 5: This is a this is a key point.

1424
01:27:29,359 --> 01:27:32,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. And they would work with they would go on

1425
01:27:32,319 --> 01:27:35,119
with the merchants and think like this, and you even

1426
01:27:35,199 --> 01:27:41,800
see them engaging in industrial espionage. First of all, they

1427
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:45,319
would try to take away the competitive advantage of you know,

1428
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:50,039
Chinese people in Japanese people by and you know, stealing

1429
01:27:50,199 --> 01:27:54,439
secrets of chinaware, you know, or to make chinaware, and

1430
01:27:55,079 --> 01:27:57,800
they will actually you know, inform you know, the army,

1431
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:01,840
they will inform. The Purban band was a very particular

1432
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:06,760
case because during the period and the single there was

1433
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:14,159
this this fight against this Western influence. And after the

1434
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:20,119
period closed, the of theed operia started. So after this

1435
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:26,319
huge island wide civil war, there will be bands on

1436
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:31,399
Christianity specifically because they were seen as a bad influence.

1437
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:36,239
And even with that, the factor leader of Japan at

1438
01:28:36,279 --> 01:28:42,039
the time, he basically whenever he learned that there were

1439
01:28:42,199 --> 01:28:47,039
Christians that were not Catholics Jesuits, he will he would

1440
01:28:47,159 --> 01:28:49,640
want to have them at the court. And you have

1441
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:53,359
the famous history of William Adams. William Adams was the

1442
01:28:55,000 --> 01:29:00,319
British guy and as soon as go yes, Sir filnd

1443
01:29:00,319 --> 01:29:03,600
that they were Christian which were not Jesuits, which were

1444
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:11,159
not this wrong influence on Japan, it would actually try

1445
01:29:11,199 --> 01:29:13,880
to bring them in and William Adams actually but it

1446
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:17,800
didn't promote Christianity of course. But William Adams for example,

1447
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:20,359
was given the title of samurai and he could stay

1448
01:29:20,399 --> 01:29:24,520
at the Emperial Court called the basis.

1449
01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:25,720
Speaker 5: Of that Goofy Tom Cruise movie.

1450
01:29:26,039 --> 01:29:28,600
Speaker 3: Is that what I remember that because that will be

1451
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:32,239
during the Boshing War, so that's later. But basically there

1452
01:29:32,399 --> 01:29:36,800
was a British samurai and the only commerce that was

1453
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:43,359
done uh with the Europeans will be through Protestant Dutch

1454
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:49,279
at the time. So basically the over influence of the

1455
01:29:49,399 --> 01:29:53,359
Jesuits just caused a lot of massacres of christian in Japan.

1456
01:29:53,479 --> 01:29:57,000
Even the converse. There was this movie Silence, you've seen it.

1457
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:02,319
He talked basically the persecution of Christian and Japan and

1458
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:06,760
it's following just with missionaries would come even though the

1459
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:07,760
countries closed down.

1460
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:10,600
Speaker 1: Oh Silence, No, no, I'm sorry, I get that mixed

1461
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:14,840
up with the one with the mission with Robert de

1462
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,399
Niro from like ten years earlier. But no, I know

1463
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:20,000
you're talking about, but I haven't seen Silence.

1464
01:30:21,319 --> 01:30:23,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you U should because well I'm not gonna

1465
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:30,079
spoil it then, but it's actually not. Yeah, you'll see

1466
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:36,279
the difference between when when the Japanese people, you know,

1467
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,960
the Christian convicts have to show faith and you know,

1468
01:30:40,319 --> 01:30:42,840
prepare for mount to them, whereas where he has to

1469
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,199
face it. I'm pretty sure that would be a good

1470
01:30:46,279 --> 01:30:46,880
movie review.

1471
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:49,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good idea.

1472
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:58,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right on the team Jesuit foreign influence and yeah,

1473
01:30:58,279 --> 01:31:03,039
so basically you have all this this, there's a very method.

1474
01:31:03,399 --> 01:31:07,159
You will have them involved in evangelization of many places.

1475
01:31:07,239 --> 01:31:10,439
You know in the Caribbean. You start to see verdu

1476
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:16,319
because there is this lenience around the I think it's

1477
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:23,319
like like Lady of Guadalupez. This is again it's it's

1478
01:31:23,359 --> 01:31:26,119
a miracle that just tailored, you know, to to get

1479
01:31:26,199 --> 01:31:30,640
things working politically. As the old Lady of Guadalupe was.

1480
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:33,600
Basically the idea is that, oh no, there there has

1481
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,920
been the apparition of an icon of the theotocus, but

1482
01:31:37,079 --> 01:31:40,439
she was looking like the Aztec people, and basically a

1483
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:44,960
lot of the feminine Susstotal class adopted it there and

1484
01:31:45,039 --> 01:31:48,159
today you can still see in Mexico there's like Santa Verte.

1485
01:31:48,279 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is another point too. This is why

1486
01:31:51,159 --> 01:31:57,600
Orthodox iconography never pictures Chinese Jesus Black Jesus, because it's

1487
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:01,760
very important did Jesus be the Hebrew Jesus that he

1488
01:32:02,039 --> 01:32:05,199
was to fulfill the prophecy to be a descendant of David.

1489
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:08,840
So you can't do Chinese Jesus. Jesus was in Chinese,

1490
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:13,800
and that's why all the Orthodox iconographal iconographical presentations of

1491
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:18,800
the Saints always retain their historic qualities because we're not gnostics.

1492
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:23,800
Your lineage in your people group is important because as

1493
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:27,479
we see in the apocalypse, it's people out of every tribe, tongue,

1494
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:31,000
and nation that are called and you don't lose all

1495
01:32:31,079 --> 01:32:35,439
of your historic physical qualities in the resurrection that's a

1496
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:40,520
gnostic doctrine. And that's why you can't Well, this again

1497
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:44,279
speaks to the Nestorianism, right, because if there can be

1498
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:50,720
Chinese Jesus, then Jesus historical instantiation as the Word of God.

1499
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:57,439
You know, in a single and hypostatized historical instantiation is relative.

1500
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again you've got this idea of non exclusivity

1501
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:06,800
and diversification of the ocean, like every little people needs

1502
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:10,760
to have this pain you've got. This is adult miracles.

1503
01:33:11,119 --> 01:33:15,399
Oh yeah, right now we've got a lady Pho the Aztecs.

1504
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:19,560
Oh good. Yeah, and oh it's the end of World

1505
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:22,760
War two. We've got a lady for the piece in

1506
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:25,880
the world that really we will have old Mother of

1507
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:28,039
Soy soon enough, just give it a few years.

1508
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:33,399
Speaker 1: A Mother of Soy said devotion of and stuff like that,

1509
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:35,720
old Lady of the new.

1510
01:33:36,319 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 5: All right, yeah, and you'll know. So notice here that.

1511
01:33:40,319 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 1: In the typical iconography of Christ, you'll see that the

1512
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:47,079
whole on that's these Greek letters are in the halo.

1513
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:48,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

1514
01:33:48,199 --> 01:33:51,399
Speaker 1: Those are actually in the Byzantine iconography. Their references to

1515
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:54,760
the I am. And this is a statement that the

1516
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:57,000
same divine person who said I am that I am

1517
01:33:57,319 --> 01:33:59,800
is who is the single divine person present here that

1518
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:05,039
you see. There's no created human hypostasis present. Christ is

1519
01:34:05,039 --> 01:34:07,279
a fully human nature. But the human nature has for

1520
01:34:07,399 --> 01:34:09,960
its hypostasis the divine person of the word alone.

1521
01:34:10,159 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 5: That's it.

1522
01:34:11,119 --> 01:34:14,159
Speaker 1: So that's why we are so stringent to avoid Nestorianism,

1523
01:34:14,239 --> 01:34:16,199
is because we want to avoid all these errors. And

1524
01:34:16,279 --> 01:34:19,840
that's why orthodox icronography always pictures Christ the same. You

1525
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:23,720
don't see an icon in Orthodoxy. Maybe in weird Roman

1526
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,479
Catholic stuff they'll make a Chinese Jesus or something, but

1527
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:30,359
you will always see Christ in having these features. There

1528
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:32,479
might be a little variance because of the styles of

1529
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:37,159
Russian iconography or Greek, but you'll notice he because he's

1530
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:41,880
a Hebrew. And if he's not the historic Hebrew Jesus,

1531
01:34:42,079 --> 01:34:43,760
then the whole thing is nonsense.

1532
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, and okay to come back, Okay, what else

1533
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:03,199
can they say? Still, I want to point out against

1534
01:35:03,199 --> 01:35:06,520
this idea that this group is working and it's always

1535
01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:10,279
a bit nebuless. You don't really know who is the hardcore,

1536
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:14,039
who is the just the followers with laity with an

1537
01:35:14,079 --> 01:35:17,359
actual priest, and they they are taking advantage of this

1538
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:22,079
you know, to infiltrate, and I'm when to go a

1539
01:35:22,159 --> 01:35:25,880
bit further. First of all, it causes a lot of

1540
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,279
problem because you know the paper balls that I caught

1541
01:35:28,319 --> 01:35:32,319
it basically said that I know you have laity that

1542
01:35:32,399 --> 01:35:36,840
can perform sacraments, which is is such a total charge.

1543
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:41,039
What's the point of it. You've just dumb dumbing people

1544
01:35:41,159 --> 01:35:44,479
or not performing for sacraments, even according to Catholic theology.

1545
01:35:46,359 --> 01:35:48,680
But again about this organization, and I want to talk

1546
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:53,159
about more the the more modern chest with we see

1547
01:35:53,199 --> 01:35:56,199
that they try to infiltrate a lot of things, and

1548
01:35:56,319 --> 01:35:59,199
they and the first thing is actually totally to control

1549
01:35:59,279 --> 01:36:02,039
over was a Vatican. So before there used to be

1550
01:36:02,159 --> 01:36:06,039
the dog of the pope and now basically the pope

1551
01:36:06,079 --> 01:36:08,800
is a Jesuit. There was this idea that you know,

1552
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:11,039
there is a black Pope and the white pup like

1553
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:13,479
the Pope and the black pup the law commander of

1554
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:18,840
the Jesuit general of the Juguit, and no, basically Francis

1555
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:23,279
is both. So right now you have the fusion of it,

1556
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:28,920
and you see that the very interesting relations between the

1557
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:32,720
papacy and between the Jesuits have come to fruition. So

1558
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:35,199
they will not listen to the purpe and be very

1559
01:36:35,279 --> 01:36:38,319
pragmatic where wherever the pope was not working for them,

1560
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:40,319
and they will push your pop forward. They would prop

1561
01:36:40,399 --> 01:36:44,800
him up when he was working for them. And at

1562
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:47,680
some point they even were disgrace you know, it was disbanded,

1563
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:52,520
but they still managed to come back. And right now

1564
01:36:53,039 --> 01:36:56,560
the Purpo has absolute power and the Pope is a

1565
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:58,920
jest with and we have a lot of people talking. Yeah,

1566
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:01,640
maybe that's why Ratzinger was pushed aside. I'm not going

1567
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,079
to go into that, but no, we have to think

1568
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:10,279
because people who promoted all these areas, it's people who mean,

1569
01:37:10,319 --> 01:37:12,600
we don't really know the dogma, we don't really know

1570
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:15,279
their relation to the occulture. We don't really know what

1571
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:20,039
is a final goal? Is it just power? And we

1572
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:22,840
have them at the highest position of the Catholic Church.

1573
01:37:23,359 --> 01:37:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I want to make one little point

1574
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:28,119
to hear about the geopolitical stuff that I stumbled upon.

1575
01:37:28,239 --> 01:37:30,800
So as most of you guys know, if you haven't

1576
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:33,680
heard the full Quigly talks, I also did the other

1577
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,640
important Quigley book, Angle American Establishment, and he actually talks

1578
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:42,680
about the Rothschilds and the Cecil Roads roundtable groups being

1579
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,960
kind of the power behind the throne. There's a fascinating

1580
01:37:46,039 --> 01:37:49,399
section in Anglo American Establishment where quickly details that the

1581
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:57,000
power structure actually utilized the structure of the Jesuits to

1582
01:37:57,279 --> 01:38:01,520
organize that secret society, if you were, call quickly refers

1583
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,039
to them as the Society of the elect.

1584
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:06,000
Speaker 5: The Society the elect was.

1585
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:10,640
Speaker 1: About the twelve most powerful European and British families Astors,

1586
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:13,800
raw Child, Cecil, Roads, et cetera. There was about ten

1587
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:16,479
or twelve of them, and then they had an out

1588
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:19,279
that was the inner core, the inner party. You could say,

1589
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:22,560
they had an outer portico of what they called two

1590
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:26,880
or three thousand helpers that was people recruited at Cambridge, Oxford, Eton.

1591
01:38:27,319 --> 01:38:31,079
This is who's running the British empire. Basically this is

1592
01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:33,640
the model for the American empire. Right, so the American

1593
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,039
Empire does sort of morph out of this because the CFR,

1594
01:38:37,159 --> 01:38:40,880
the trial out or commission, what's the power structure in

1595
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:43,319
the US that was all set up by these people.

1596
01:38:44,239 --> 01:38:45,960
So some of those families are not as important as

1597
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:47,880
maybe they were one hundred years ago when Quigley was

1598
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:51,000
writing about them, But regardless, it's still roughly the same

1599
01:38:51,079 --> 01:38:57,439
power structure, and they specifically said they modeled their inner

1600
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:01,800
society on the j Justus. So once again, let's keep

1601
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:04,439
in mind, this is the same power structure as the

1602
01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,920
Royal Society. That's who the Anglo American establishment is, same

1603
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:12,359
group the Royal Society, who are the biggest promoters of

1604
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:15,920
Darwinism and evolution in the last one hundred plus years.

1605
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 5: Them and who else the Jesuits. There you go.

1606
01:39:21,039 --> 01:39:23,159
Speaker 1: I want to stress this, and I'm not saying that

1607
01:39:23,279 --> 01:39:26,359
I can prove definitively that, oh, well, secretly the Royal

1608
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:28,279
Society was allied with the Jesuits.

1609
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:29,359
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe not.

1610
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:31,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure eventually people could probably dig that up. But

1611
01:39:32,079 --> 01:39:34,279
what I am saying is that I don't think that

1612
01:39:34,399 --> 01:39:37,880
it's an accident, and I do think it's interesting that

1613
01:39:38,239 --> 01:39:42,000
these two global power groups, both the elite of the

1614
01:39:42,039 --> 01:39:46,359
British Empire and the Jesuits, were so formative and instrumental

1615
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:49,239
in putting all of their power and influence into promoting

1616
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:53,319
Big Bang and Darwinism and all the frauds of pilt

1617
01:39:53,359 --> 01:39:56,760
Down Man and Nebraska Man and all that stuff. Tahart

1618
01:39:56,840 --> 01:40:00,600
is there for all that stuff, Jesuits have been very

1619
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:03,720
influential on this, and I think that has to be

1620
01:40:04,279 --> 01:40:07,319
kept in mind and stressed, as you pointed out, because

1621
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:10,279
now what we see is the entire Roman Catholic structure

1622
01:40:10,319 --> 01:40:11,479
being run by a Jesuit.

1623
01:40:14,159 --> 01:40:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that would be probably my conclusion. And the

1624
01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:22,680
Jesuit is that even from the Roman Catholic perspective, there's

1625
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:25,760
a big problem here is that the idea of the Pope,

1626
01:40:26,119 --> 01:40:28,720
the idea of Catholic of theology, and the concept of Trent,

1627
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:35,880
this is done by and through the Jesuits. And even

1628
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:40,279
after that, the Jesuits were you know, allies, enemies in

1629
01:40:40,399 --> 01:40:44,600
any way, very bad force for Roman Catholicism. You know,

1630
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:47,560
it introduced heresies, it's fought against the Pope, and this

1631
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:50,720
is not acceptable in Roman Catholic dogma. The problem is

1632
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:54,720
the enemy was in your mist and now you can

1633
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:59,199
truly be a Catholic and you know, hold very adversarial

1634
01:40:59,239 --> 01:41:02,359
positions to the Jesuits, but at the same time you

1635
01:41:02,399 --> 01:41:04,840
can't really follow the dogma and follow the Jesuits. So

1636
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:09,520
you kind have blocked here. It's been infiltrated. Yes, And

1637
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:12,560
I also want to to say a quick word to

1638
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:15,840
the Orthodox. As I described the Jesuit work you know,

1639
01:41:17,399 --> 01:41:20,720
as a core and then affiliates which sometimes are not

1640
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:24,840
even you know, fully fledged Jesuits, allies and things like this,

1641
01:41:25,239 --> 01:41:26,960
and they are working for the same thing. And now

1642
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:30,560
we should look at the Fordamites because they they are

1643
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:34,000
Jesuit affiliates to work for the Fordham University, which is

1644
01:41:34,279 --> 01:41:36,800
a Jesuit university, and they push the same stuff as

1645
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:37,640
they as a Jesuits.

1646
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,560
Speaker 1: And there are Legiance that's also a CIA university exactly.

1647
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:47,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, and basically you see like arcam like is this

1648
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:50,479
is this equivalent order you know to the Jesuits that

1649
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:53,920
start to pop up. You have priests in there, but

1650
01:41:54,039 --> 01:41:56,359
at the same time you're pating even they push for

1651
01:41:56,600 --> 01:42:00,199
with stuff and sometimes they go like borderline heresy, lot

1652
01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:03,279
of daments, you know, there are also we should we

1653
01:42:03,319 --> 01:42:05,920
should look uh, we should look at this because it

1654
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:10,119
seems to take the same road. And and yes, this

1655
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:13,960
this is with the the new tool of suest with

1656
01:42:14,119 --> 01:42:19,359
which is over ecmmunism, you know, ecumunism and this idea

1657
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:23,640
of dissolution that right now we can approach all the

1658
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:25,600
things that we're not gonna fight, we're not gonna mix it,

1659
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:30,079
we're gonna bring things forward and just try to get

1660
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:33,600
our differences out, which all differences are to the dogma

1661
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:37,720
or faith, which is something very important to just start,

1662
01:42:38,399 --> 01:42:42,039
you know, merging into this pro mode of thing like yes,

1663
01:42:42,119 --> 01:42:46,760
this big blood religion, world religion, and and that's what

1664
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:48,960
we're going to see. With the Amazon synos. They will

1665
01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:52,520
basically say things like, yes, of course he can worship Tree,

1666
01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:55,000
but you know, in a way, Tree is also God,

1667
01:42:55,199 --> 01:42:57,960
and and this is this is the whole creation, and

1668
01:42:58,119 --> 01:43:02,399
there is no it's all toophorical, and that's what he's

1669
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:08,960
gonna end. Really, So yes, we should think about this

1670
01:43:09,039 --> 01:43:11,800
because this is a new methods with.

1671
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:15,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they're going to be instrumental in

1672
01:43:16,119 --> 01:43:20,840
promoting the you know, new world order type religion that

1673
01:43:21,159 --> 01:43:24,399
Francis seems to be very keen to. In fact, he

1674
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:26,960
was just saying this week that it's time to create

1675
01:43:27,039 --> 01:43:30,119
a new global humanist religion. Now I'm going to really

1676
01:43:30,239 --> 01:43:32,239
blow your mind here everybody in the chat, just as

1677
01:43:32,279 --> 01:43:34,560
a kind of a weirdo thing to finish off with.

1678
01:43:35,359 --> 01:43:38,000
Probably some of you intrepid researchers out there can figure

1679
01:43:38,039 --> 01:43:42,119
this one out for me. But this came up many

1680
01:43:42,199 --> 01:43:46,039
years ago when we were doing a call with John

1681
01:43:46,119 --> 01:43:51,840
and Chris. There is a very weird Jesuit cave uh

1682
01:43:52,039 --> 01:43:55,359
and it's called the underground. Underground Jesuit caves in Europe

1683
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:59,920
that are and they're filled with Egyptian, Islamic and cartoon art.

1684
01:44:00,199 --> 01:44:01,079
Speaker 5: I am not joking.

1685
01:44:02,199 --> 01:44:06,680
Speaker 1: It's just outside the city of Mastricht in Belgium and

1686
01:44:07,159 --> 01:44:09,000
it's known as a Jesuit cave.

1687
01:44:09,199 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 5: I'm not joking.

1688
01:44:10,279 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 1: There's the link in the chat underground Caves and the

1689
01:44:14,079 --> 01:44:17,399
artwork throughout these Jesuit caves. I know this sounds crazy,

1690
01:44:17,479 --> 01:44:24,279
it's real includes cartoon characters. Now why, I don't know.

1691
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:30,439
Maybe somebody can figure this out intrepid researchers. I suspect

1692
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,000
I can't prove this, but to me, it's reminiscent of

1693
01:44:34,199 --> 01:44:36,439
sort of. It looks like mind control type stuff. It

1694
01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:40,399
looks like the things that you would do if you

1695
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:43,720
were doing hallucinogens, that you might show people.

1696
01:44:45,119 --> 01:44:45,640
Speaker 5: But maybe not.

1697
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:50,079
Speaker 1: Maybe they're just bored and drawing cartoon scenes on walls.

1698
01:44:50,119 --> 01:44:50,720
I'm not joking.

1699
01:44:51,159 --> 01:44:54,760
Speaker 5: I'm going to show you the art here again.

1700
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:58,880
Speaker 1: Anybody who knows what this is, please enlighten me, because

1701
01:44:59,159 --> 01:45:01,359
I have no idea but as you can see that,

1702
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:04,479
here are the cartoon characters on one scene. There's multiple

1703
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:10,079
scenes like this, really really weird stuff, literal cartoon characters.

1704
01:45:10,119 --> 01:45:12,279
And I don't know when this one was drawn. They've

1705
01:45:12,319 --> 01:45:14,159
been drawn, I guess in different centuries. This was drawn

1706
01:45:14,199 --> 01:45:20,520
in nineteen sixty. Here's your Jesuit Disney cartoonist. It includes

1707
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:28,359
a giant Egyptian snakehead. Here's some more cartoon characters with

1708
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:36,560
puppy dogs, bring puppy dogs, bringing dinner, talking daffy ducks.

1709
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,399
I mean, are they just tripping out? Are the Jesuits

1710
01:45:39,479 --> 01:45:41,720
just tripping a bunch of acid underneath.

1711
01:45:41,399 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 5: Underneath the city.

1712
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:45,640
Speaker 1: But it gets weirder and weirder because they also have

1713
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:50,960
other religious imagery, such as.

1714
01:45:52,319 --> 01:45:52,720
Speaker 5: Buddha.

1715
01:45:54,159 --> 01:45:55,359
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's in the essay.

1716
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:56,520
Speaker 5: You can that article.

1717
01:45:57,319 --> 01:45:58,800
Speaker 1: It appears, as far as I could tell, to be

1718
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:03,000
a real thing. Jesuits were past masters in copying world

1719
01:46:03,079 --> 01:46:07,159
famous arts and structures. There's even a version of Picasso's

1720
01:46:07,239 --> 01:46:11,039
Old Woman in here. Why were they doing copies in

1721
01:46:11,199 --> 01:46:12,760
an underground cave?

1722
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:14,920
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1723
01:46:15,079 --> 01:46:17,880
Speaker 1: This is just really bizarre stuff, So just a weird

1724
01:46:17,960 --> 01:46:20,600
one I wanted to throw in for everybody jesuit cartoon art.

1725
01:46:23,199 --> 01:46:26,600
So if you want to leave us some super chats

1726
01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:28,399
as we sort of come here towards the end.

1727
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:33,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I just wanted to tell you that. Okay,

1728
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:39,840
so jesuits is not my preferred topics. So in the future,

1729
01:46:39,880 --> 01:46:41,520
if we want to talk more about this, we actually

1730
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:45,079
have people from the same collective who actually studied this

1731
01:46:45,239 --> 01:46:48,199
more and we could go a bit deeper and probably

1732
01:46:48,279 --> 01:46:50,600
go more into the occal side of things. I didn't

1733
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:53,960
really want to go there, but to bring a little

1734
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:57,680
bit more nuance, and in the future it might it

1735
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:00,439
might be possible. We have other people who are Yeah, I'm.

1736
01:47:00,359 --> 01:47:01,880
Speaker 1: Not really trying to go into that. I just wanted

1737
01:47:01,880 --> 01:47:03,439
to mention it because it came to mind. I didn't

1738
01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:07,880
want to forget the weird underground cave with cartoons. I

1739
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:10,520
just I couldn't resist mentioning that.

1740
01:47:12,199 --> 01:47:14,960
Speaker 3: But if you're interested in digging further, we have other

1741
01:47:15,039 --> 01:47:17,000
people who are very very much qualified and.

1742
01:47:17,199 --> 01:47:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I want to make a point there

1743
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:23,640
that if you want to connect with Snack, his discord

1744
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:26,960
is listed there. The French Orthobos have their own discord.

1745
01:47:27,039 --> 01:47:30,520
They do a lot of apologetic and translation discussion.

1746
01:47:30,079 --> 01:47:30,640
Speaker 5: Work in there.

1747
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:33,600
Speaker 1: There's his YouTube channel, a lot of that's in French,

1748
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:37,039
and then also his Twitter and he's pretty active on Twitter,

1749
01:47:37,159 --> 01:47:39,479
so you can connect with his material there.

1750
01:47:40,279 --> 01:47:43,479
Speaker 5: Anybody wants to support us, I'll do some super chats here.

1751
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:46,800
Speaker 1: We only got one superchat right now, Lawrence asked, does

1752
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:48,239
anyone want to match my superchat?

1753
01:47:48,279 --> 01:47:49,239
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, there you go, thank you.

1754
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:51,479
Speaker 1: We do got a good car out of two hundred

1755
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:53,000
and thirty five nerds in here, so I'm glad to

1756
01:47:53,039 --> 01:47:55,840
hear everybody real quick. I'll read some of the devotions

1757
01:47:55,880 --> 01:48:01,039
of Faustina Kowalska that we've critiqued here. Vine Mercy in

1758
01:48:01,199 --> 01:48:03,760
my soul. She says that the host floated out of

1759
01:48:03,800 --> 01:48:07,640
the tabernacle and rested in my hands. Later on in

1760
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:09,960
that book, page eighty nine, she says, while I was

1761
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:14,239
holding the host in my hands, I felt the amazing

1762
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:15,960
Jesus power upon me.

1763
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:17,319
Speaker 5: By the way, you're not.

1764
01:48:17,319 --> 01:48:19,039
Speaker 1: Supposed to hold the host, right, it's supposed to be

1765
01:48:19,159 --> 01:48:22,399
given to you by the priests. But anyway, and traditionally

1766
01:48:22,479 --> 01:48:24,159
speaking right, but it floated to her.

1767
01:48:25,640 --> 01:48:28,800
Speaker 3: What's funny is that you've got Roman Catholic being very

1768
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:33,079
you know, like pushing, you know, Alacoq and people like exist.

1769
01:48:33,359 --> 01:48:36,840
But you have some some of the traditional Catholics, like

1770
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:40,159
I mean he said actist, right, I don't know traditional

1771
01:48:40,239 --> 01:48:44,600
that is, for example, there's a demon. Brothers. Yes, this

1772
01:48:44,760 --> 01:48:48,279
devotion of kovaska is is wrong for all the reason

1773
01:48:48,359 --> 01:48:50,439
we quote it. But the problem is it also applies

1774
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:52,720
to other devotions like a la coq.

1775
01:48:52,920 --> 01:48:56,680
Speaker 1: Exactly once you critique this is a great point U Kouska.

1776
01:48:56,840 --> 01:48:59,840
On these points, the same thing will apply to a bunch.

1777
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:00,720
Speaker 5: Of these women saints.

1778
01:49:01,119 --> 01:49:04,399
Speaker 1: And I want to admit mention too, a gemma who

1779
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:07,640
threw herself down a well. Yes, I know that some

1780
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:11,560
asthetics have gotten pretty radical and maybe mortified their their

1781
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:14,560
body in a sense that that would be extreme. That's

1782
01:49:14,680 --> 01:49:17,720
different than being suicidal and throwing yourself down a well.

1783
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:22,520
And if you read for Catholics, I would challenge you

1784
01:49:23,119 --> 01:49:25,720
read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Donatus.

1785
01:49:25,880 --> 01:49:26,199
Speaker 5: I read.

1786
01:49:26,239 --> 01:49:28,680
Speaker 1: I reread it again actually a few months ago, and

1787
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:31,800
it was very instructive because I had forgotten, because I've

1788
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:35,520
read all the Antidonatus works by Augustine, I'd forgotten the

1789
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:38,920
fact that the Donatists actually did this. And Augustine condemns

1790
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:42,119
them for this, the Donatists would throw themselves down wells,

1791
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:44,800
and he specifically talks about that. It comes up in

1792
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:49,600
the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Donatis. So what what

1793
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:52,159
I'm getting at is that this manifestation of devotion is

1794
01:49:52,279 --> 01:49:57,000
not of God. It's heretical, it's prelest. Anyway, she goes

1795
01:49:57,039 --> 01:49:59,239
on in her treatise to vine Mercy to say that

1796
01:50:00,399 --> 01:50:05,039
Jesus told her personally, I want my specific mercy to

1797
01:50:05,159 --> 01:50:08,640
be worshiped. If they will not adore my mercy, I

1798
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:11,720
will punish the whole world. I'm uniting myself with you,

1799
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:14,760
as with no other creature. This is the nestorianism that

1800
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:17,880
you talked about. If you pray, I will bless the

1801
01:50:17,880 --> 01:50:20,680
whole world. I will punish the whole world. Tell your superior,

1802
01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:23,399
superior general world that you are the most faithful nun

1803
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:28,479
in the whole order, you are the greatest saint.

1804
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:29,479
Speaker 5: Blah blah blah blah blah.

1805
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:31,920
Speaker 1: There's all this nonsense, and you realize that this is

1806
01:50:32,119 --> 01:50:34,800
this is not this is all total pre list. And

1807
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:37,000
if you were to admit that that's all total pre list,

1808
01:50:37,279 --> 01:50:40,720
then all of these same women that we've been talking

1809
01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:43,000
about and it's not just women. There's other weird men

1810
01:50:43,279 --> 01:50:45,479
that did similar stuff. It would apply to all them too.

1811
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:50,039
And by the way, I just did I just wrote

1812
01:50:50,079 --> 01:50:53,479
that essay on the prophets of bail, and it made

1813
01:50:53,479 --> 01:50:55,479
me think of Elijah and the prophets of bail. Right,

1814
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:58,680
cutting yourself and all this kind of stuff is exactly

1815
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:01,520
what Elijah faces with the profits bail j C.

1816
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:03,560
Speaker 5: Rubug ten bucks. He says, thank you.

1817
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:06,800
Speaker 1: Both, very many blessings for your hard work.

1818
01:51:06,840 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Jesse, appreciate that. And do you have

1819
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:10,760
any comments on that?

1820
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:14,920
Speaker 3: Well?

1821
01:51:15,079 --> 01:51:17,880
Speaker 1: Thanks, No, I'm in on what I was saying about

1822
01:51:19,319 --> 01:51:20,399
Kowalska and the.

1823
01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:22,520
Speaker 5: And that stuff.

1824
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:26,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. The thing is, you know, no, it seems apparent.

1825
01:51:26,520 --> 01:51:29,840
You know, people start start to realize that's what we

1826
01:51:30,199 --> 01:51:34,000
have to tell. Because people start to think for themselves,

1827
01:51:34,039 --> 01:51:37,359
it's easier to get informations out and and you know,

1828
01:51:37,479 --> 01:51:39,439
we can we can start to understand. You know, all

1829
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,720
these things were hidden. You know, these are the fact

1830
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:46,920
that things were explicit in the story and the pop

1831
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,640
actually knew about it, but it was never brought forward

1832
01:51:51,239 --> 01:51:55,640
fair enough. For example, the pop news that the Holy

1833
01:51:55,760 --> 01:52:01,039
Heart Sacred heard and that Loyola who were pushing for

1834
01:52:01,079 --> 01:52:05,239
an Estianism, but it was hidden letter the holy what

1835
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:07,119
sacred hurt?

1836
01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:08,239
Speaker 5: Oh, sacred heart?

1837
01:52:08,319 --> 01:52:09,640
Speaker 1: Okay, I think it's a sacred herb.

1838
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:11,119
Speaker 5: Would say, the sacred herb.

1839
01:52:11,279 --> 01:52:17,359
Speaker 1: Dude, it sounded like you said sacred herb like Rastafarian.

1840
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, what do you okay? So ruffling Stack said,

1841
01:52:23,159 --> 01:52:26,159
what do you have to say about just with liberation theology?

1842
01:52:26,399 --> 01:52:29,600
This is another had hog dogma, you know, the same

1843
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:33,199
thing they would have ad doc dogma to integrate people.

1844
01:52:34,399 --> 01:52:38,680
This is, I believe part of the political movements in

1845
01:52:38,720 --> 01:52:45,840
South Southern America, South America, and and yes it was.

1846
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:48,359
It was created to to to to adapt. It's it's

1847
01:52:48,399 --> 01:52:49,359
another adult dogma.

1848
01:52:49,479 --> 01:53:02,119
Speaker 5: Basically, you want to read the wim Hoff book.

1849
01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:03,119
Speaker 1: I've read that.

1850
01:53:03,279 --> 01:53:03,680
Speaker 5: It's good.

1851
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:06,319
Speaker 1: Again, I'm stressing it because we want to understand there's

1852
01:53:06,319 --> 01:53:12,159
a mythology amongst the trad anti communist collective. I'm joking

1853
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:16,720
the trad anti commy world where they are under the

1854
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:23,319
impression that the liberation theology was a communist thing that

1855
01:53:23,479 --> 01:53:26,560
the Jesuits pioneered. There's an angle and element of truth

1856
01:53:26,600 --> 01:53:30,399
to this, but it's also way off because it buys

1857
01:53:30,439 --> 01:53:34,279
into the Cold War dialectic, and wim Hoff is great

1858
01:53:34,359 --> 01:53:36,680
at busting that Cold War dialectic because I want to

1859
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:42,159
stress that the main pioneers of liberation theology. Yes, there

1860
01:53:42,199 --> 01:53:44,600
are many liberal Jesuits and liberalty elogians who did that,

1861
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:47,000
but they were doing that at the behest, not of Moscow,

1862
01:53:47,479 --> 01:53:50,359
not of the KGB, but at the hest of their

1863
01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:55,239
zillionaire banking Western elites that funded them. And wim Hoff

1864
01:53:55,399 --> 01:53:59,159
grasps that. So he's a great myth buster to many

1865
01:53:59,319 --> 01:54:06,039
of these tracks. And that's why this book is so good. Also,

1866
01:54:06,319 --> 01:54:08,920
I want to stress too, a cult Renaissance church, if

1867
01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:10,920
you read a cult Renaissance Church of Rome and you

1868
01:54:11,039 --> 01:54:13,680
read the whim Hoff book, you will have most of

1869
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:18,439
your trad myths busted from the geopolitical and historic perspective.

1870
01:54:22,159 --> 01:54:23,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've heard of it. Do you give you

1871
01:54:24,079 --> 01:54:24,319
to read?

1872
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:29,319
Speaker 1: So that's what I wanted to say Raffling Stakes, is

1873
01:54:29,359 --> 01:54:32,960
that those books are really good and sort of busting

1874
01:54:33,000 --> 01:54:35,359
a lot of these these this trad mythology like that

1875
01:54:35,479 --> 01:54:38,720
AA one O two five that's actually just cold war propaganda,

1876
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:42,720
this idea that that Moscow is sending all of these

1877
01:54:43,079 --> 01:54:46,479
KGB agents to infiltrate the papacy and all this stuff.

1878
01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:49,359
The papacy was already corrupt, The papacy was already a

1879
01:54:49,439 --> 01:54:55,800
problem way before Moscow was struggling with its atheism. So

1880
01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:59,319
you have to understand the problems go back way beyond

1881
01:54:59,359 --> 01:55:02,199
the twentieth cent This is Vatican Two is the outworking

1882
01:55:02,279 --> 01:55:05,439
of centuries and centuries and centuries of issues and errors.

1883
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:07,680
It's not something that just pops up in the twentieth

1884
01:55:07,760 --> 01:55:11,079
century after a pious the twelveth suddenly starts to you know,

1885
01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:14,920
accept theistic evolution, and oh suddenly it's the infiltration of

1886
01:55:15,039 --> 01:55:19,359
the the Freemasons. Right, that's an element, there's an element

1887
01:55:19,399 --> 01:55:22,079
of truth to that. But again, there are problems that

1888
01:55:22,199 --> 01:55:24,760
go back for the Even Malachi Martin in his Jesuit

1889
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:28,119
book admits the problem of the Jesuits, and he was

1890
01:55:28,159 --> 01:55:30,760
a fake trad. Even the fake trads can know that

1891
01:55:30,840 --> 01:55:32,560
the Jesuits are a huge part of the problem. And

1892
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:36,359
then it extends back even further than just the twentieth century.

1893
01:55:42,039 --> 01:55:42,880
Speaker 5: Do you have any more.

1894
01:55:47,319 --> 01:55:48,720
Speaker 1: No, I mean, do you have any more information or

1895
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:51,199
anything else you want to touch on before we kind

1896
01:55:51,199 --> 01:55:53,079
of wrap it up. BELLA. Dodd That's what I was

1897
01:55:53,119 --> 01:55:55,279
trying to say. No, no, I'm not saying that Bella

1898
01:55:55,359 --> 01:56:02,239
Dodd's congressional testimony is fake. I'm not saying that Bella Dodd, though,

1899
01:56:02,479 --> 01:56:05,439
is putting out information. And a lot of the Cold

1900
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:10,319
warrior people really thought that the enemy was the KGB

1901
01:56:10,479 --> 01:56:13,000
in Moscow. But that is a faux enemy, is what

1902
01:56:13,079 --> 01:56:15,399
I'm trying to stress to you, And even the Trads

1903
01:56:15,399 --> 01:56:18,319
are starting to finally figure this out. It's not the

1904
01:56:18,439 --> 01:56:21,199
KGB that's bringing in the new world order, it's the

1905
01:56:21,279 --> 01:56:24,119
Fortune one hundred. What I'm trying to tell you is

1906
01:56:24,199 --> 01:56:27,720
that the threat of communism in America was largely a

1907
01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:31,079
fake threat. The real threat was the Fortune one hundred,

1908
01:56:31,359 --> 01:56:34,720
who wanted the Cold War to transition us into the

1909
01:56:34,760 --> 01:56:36,760
period where we are now. That's why I've done a

1910
01:56:36,920 --> 01:56:41,279
thirty plus book analysis of the globalist writings of the

1911
01:56:41,359 --> 01:56:44,920
last century which shows this point. So it's not the

1912
01:56:45,039 --> 01:56:50,880
communists versus the West. It's the international elite who are

1913
01:56:51,039 --> 01:56:56,000
corporate who are bringing in this technocracy. That's the real plan.

1914
01:56:56,840 --> 01:57:00,600
And Francis and all his clown crew all part of

1915
01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:04,319
bringing in this new world ordered religion. They're the religious

1916
01:57:04,479 --> 01:57:05,840
arm of this same plan.

1917
01:57:06,479 --> 01:57:07,199
Speaker 5: It's that simple.

1918
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:14,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a continuation that a lot of people are

1919
01:57:14,960 --> 01:57:18,760
going to say that everything went wrong at the Vatican too.

1920
01:57:20,039 --> 01:57:23,359
It's a long work. And yeah, as a papacy at

1921
01:57:23,359 --> 01:57:28,439
the internet flows with them dogmatic in e canciology. He

1922
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:33,520
started very early and like we've covered I's suestment, we've

1923
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:37,640
covered hundreds of years of history, that single good one.

1924
01:57:38,640 --> 01:57:42,039
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, all right, well, thank you for those

1925
01:57:42,279 --> 01:57:45,520
super chats there again, if you want to support his work,

1926
01:57:45,600 --> 01:57:48,920
I've got the links there in the show description, and

1927
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:51,119
if you want to support Jay's analysis, you can subscribe

1928
01:57:51,119 --> 01:57:54,000
at my website, buy my books signed copies in the shop.

1929
01:57:54,079 --> 01:57:56,840
You can also join at the joint button. If you're

1930
01:57:56,840 --> 01:58:05,479
on a macro PC or you you can you can

1931
01:58:05,760 --> 01:58:08,840
just like and share. That's much appreciated as well. We're

1932
01:58:08,880 --> 01:58:11,279
going to see a lot of algorithmic changes on YouTube

1933
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:16,560
in the coming months, so it helps of course to

1934
01:58:17,359 --> 01:58:19,239
to like and to share the shows. All right, thank

1935
01:58:19,239 --> 01:58:22,680
you Snach. This was a fascinating, excellent conversation for people

1936
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:25,239
who want to get a little more of the central

1937
01:58:25,239 --> 01:58:29,159
point about the differences in devotion. There's the excellent Jean

1938
01:58:29,239 --> 01:58:34,399
Claus'll called Larchet book on the difference between the two

1939
01:58:35,479 --> 01:58:39,119
churches in terms of the devotion. And then, of course

1940
01:58:39,199 --> 01:58:41,399
I would just say again for anybody who wants a

1941
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:44,479
brief treatment of the of the theology and how the

1942
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:47,680
theology it leads to the differences of practices and the practice,

1943
01:58:48,399 --> 01:58:53,359
read the debate between Palamas and a barley mite. That's

1944
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:55,159
only I did a whole talk on it a couple

1945
01:58:55,159 --> 01:58:57,720
of weeks ago. It's only about one hundred pages. And

1946
01:58:58,079 --> 01:59:01,680
he even touches on the the differences of devotions that

1947
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:04,560
were that were already becoming a parent back in his

1948
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:06,880
century when he was debating the barley of mine and

1949
01:59:06,920 --> 01:59:08,800
the barley of mine is essentially just another kind of

1950
01:59:09,279 --> 01:59:11,079
roughly the tonistic type of position.

1951
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:13,479
Speaker 5: Roughly speaking, all.

1952
01:59:13,439 --> 01:59:17,720
Speaker 1: Right, thank you Snach, great show, great talk, much appreciated

1953
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:20,399
for all your information. Thank you everybody in the chat

1954
01:59:20,439 --> 01:59:23,199
and all the nerds, great show. Anything else you want

1955
01:59:23,239 --> 01:59:24,960
to say, I.

1956
01:59:25,039 --> 01:59:28,239
Speaker 3: Know, thank you for having me, and will be available

1957
01:59:28,279 --> 01:59:30,119
if you want to go further on some topics, So

1958
01:59:30,239 --> 01:59:32,439
if you want to look at other things, and yeah,

1959
01:59:33,039 --> 01:59:36,720
keeping posted for the movie review about Silence, I would

1960
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:37,720
really like to have your opinion.

1961
01:59:37,880 --> 01:59:38,079
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1962
01:59:38,199 --> 01:59:39,279
Speaker 5: I'm glad you reminded me of it.

1963
01:59:39,359 --> 01:59:40,760
Speaker 1: There's so many movies I need to get to, but

1964
01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:42,439
all right, God bless everybody, have a good night.