Speaker 1: Let's start the stream and see if this works.
Speaker 2: Okay, fingers questa, okay, all.
Speaker 1: Right, welcome, welcome, welcome. Can everybody in the chat hear me?
Is that you play music?
Speaker 3: Alightter just pus this the ad Cauzipito started. Okay, uh yeah,
and can people give me as well? All right? Kay?
Speaker 1: Can you guys hear uh snack? Hold on, there's another
computer that's playing. Let me turn that off.
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, we should be good.
Speaker 1: We're going, we're rolling sounds good yep, everybody lot and clear,
all right, welcome, this is uh we've been wanting to
do this show for a while.
Speaker 5: The stream and I have with me.
Speaker 1: Snack, one of our French ortho bros. I've just been
here reading my copy of how to Mind Control Snack
by Ignacious Loyal.
Speaker 5: Snack there.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah that I had the.
Speaker 1: Spiritual exercises and I'm going to figure out how to
mind control you with the key phrases and words.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Okay, what's up man? How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm quite right? Yeah, it's very good being here. I
want to thank everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pre sip gang and all the theres
a French team because we've been working on a lot
of stuff and it's good that, you know, especially having
these kind of sources that are not available for there's
a you know, English speaking public.
Speaker 1: So hold on, So let's tell everybody what you do
real quick and and and just kind of lay that
out there that you you try to translate a lot
of these French sources that are not in English, right,
is that what you're up to?
Speaker 3: Okay? So I'm part of a collective, Like basically we
have a server, website, YouTube channel, we are supervised by
a deacon that we are French, a lot of French
converts and so on, and and all collective is about,
you know, trying to get out sources, easy apologetics and
new stuff, not not only know translating, but usually bringing
out the ideas and sharing. And we've been involved with
with yeah, some of the people that follow you as well,
the Precept Gang and and we have a yeah on
server or on thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah oh cool?
Speaker 1: Okay, So and I've got the links in the description
to the French Orthobro discord to your YouTube channel and
then if they want to follow you on Twitter. So
everybody's got that information and we'll touch on that again
real quick, I want to make a point about what's
coming on YouTube. There's going to be a lot of
changes to YouTube, particularly in January, so we want to
be prepared for that. I think Jay's Analysis can weather
this storm. But basically what's going to happen is that
the normal ad revenue is going to kind of go
away because they're going to implement changes that have to
do with child protection laws in the FTC and this
is going to affect a lot of gaming channels, but
they're going to kind of force everybody who has a
YouTube channel I think January to choose whether their content
is for kids or not, and if it's not, then
the demonetization is going to be a lot more severe.
So it's not going to hurt super chats I don't
think at this point, which is you know, we do
well with that here and it's not going to hurt
channel subscription. So if you want to support Jays Analysis
on YouTube, you can join the channel subscription button there
and that lets you get access to the Jason Analysis material.
Speaker 5: And I don't think it's going to affect super chats
as of yet.
Speaker 1: So those are the two ways that you can continue
on YouTube to support but the viewership and the memberships
are not memberships, but the new subscribers to Jasonnalysis just
following the channel.
Speaker 5: This has affected everybody.
Speaker 1: So in the last two weeks, what they've done with
the sub button, this has affected everybody. So there's a
lot of big changes coming and I think a lot
of people's subscribers are down or flattened out for the
last two weeks. I don't think hopefully that's not going
to continue for forever. But there's big changes coming to
YouTube and it's affecting you know, channels that if this
is part of.
Speaker 5: How you make a living.
Speaker 1: So hopefully we can weather the storm in terms of
the channel memberships where you can join or you can
always subscribe to jays Analysis or jason Alysis, or you
can hit us up with super Jazz anyway. So I
needed to make that clear because I've been researching that
today so.
Speaker 5: Excuse me. So today we're going to be talking about.
Speaker 1: Issues in France, French jesuits, the Frankish church. Let's start
with the issue that you want to start with, So
you tell me where you think is the best place
to start. Because we've talked a lot about jesuits, accounter
Reformation pre less when it comes to weird mortification practices,
the Jesuit usage of heart worship, Abata's works that apparently
have not been translated into English about the Jesuits, what's
the best place to start in your mind?
Speaker 3: As the best place to start is you know, thinking
about I mean into French context what Trenchfitly is, you know,
because we have a lot of people thinking it's a
bastion of Catholicism. It's yeah, but we need to think,
you know, look historically, and then I'm going to get
there because he's probably one of the best sources we
have and it needs to be vindicated because a lot
of people are just not accepting it because you converted.
But I'll tach on that. So basically what I want
to go on first is the fact that France is
actually basically friends started as something very Orthodox, and you know,
Papism in France, especially after the Vatican One, France always
has been you know, pushing against it, and really we
should not see France as this bastion of Catholicism. And
actually the fact that the SSPX and stuff like this
are very present in France is is more of a
side effect of this, because you see whole religious as
all religious climate was just destroyed after Vatican won. So
basically the idea is that when we look at the
history of France, the first king we converted, like the
French Constantine if you want French in Constantin was actly Clovis,
and Clovis at the very start. So it was frank
and the Franks was the only church that converted to Christianity,
the United Church and Divided Church, which we know is Orthodox.
And as soon as he did this, as soon as
he converted, he convoked consuls, namely the Council of Audience
and the Council of Audience establishes, which is basically opposiphally
in the Kingdom of Franks. So already we can.
Speaker 1: See that in you because you're saying it really fast.
The Council of what.
Speaker 3: The Council of Audience Orleans okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, So
that's in five hundred eleven, okay. And during this council
there's basically the establishment of autocephony in France. And even
after the schism, we can see that this idea of
you know, friends getting centralized, you know, especially after the
one hundred years wars Friends being centralized also involved, you know,
centralization of the church and the ideas that the church
was not just a political tool for the Vatican. And
we'll see it especially through the Jersuit infiltration, because they
came a little late, and we can see that. You know,
in all traditional Christianity there always were a fight against
such influences. So yes, basically the church that existed in
France was the Gallican Church. The Gallican Church concept of
it is very easy. It really looks like the Anglicans,
except then community. And so the Gallican Church says that
as a Lieutenant of Christ is actually the king of
friends of Christ. And here we can see the lieutenant
like bigger.
Speaker 5: Few will vicker lieutenant lit like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lieutenant yeah. And just this, you know, it already
invalidates most of the papal claims to friends because this
already is that odds with a Vatican one saying that
there is a universal jurisdictions that the purpose believed to
have absolute power. And you know it showed even even
during the First consulta Vatican. During the first consulta Vatican,
there was a huge French position the Gallican Church and
the Gallican Church actually is the only reason. One of
the most clear reasons the Vatican collectively push ultra apism
like after the Vatican One was the fact that there
was the Franco Prussian War. Basically, the emperor was captured
in the old state machine just fell apart.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's take this slow, let's not go
too faster. So basically, what we're saying is is that
in this early period, when you have the expansion of
Christianity into this region, it's essentially orthodox. We think of
this as the Gallican Church. And you're saying that the
granting of autocephali here of being self governing more or
less shows that the practice of the Church in this
period is Orthodox church governance, and we don't see the
Vatican one conception here. And this is why this has
been a problem for the claims of Vatican One. Correct, Yeah, correct, Okay,
Now that's a first argument. And what I want to
get to then is when we when we move towards
the period of Charlemagne, can you enlighten us how before
we up to it. We see that this is a
problem of Vatican One, But can you take us through
the Charlemagne period, just because My understanding is that I'm
not agreeing with everything that Romanites or any of those
people say, but there is a point to be made
here that a lot of Greek writers have made about
the history of the Frankish Church, which is that it
does eventually become a tool for the Frankish power. And
that's where we do start to see problems with Charlemagne.
And it's actually the letters of Saint Photios the Great
where he complains about Frankish missionaries, and he does mean
people under Charlemagne. He's not using the generic term of
Franks for the Westerns. He's specifically speaking of people from
the Franks spreading the Phillyoquay missionaries spreading the Philioquay in
the jurisdictions of Greek churches.
Speaker 5: So is that correct?
Speaker 1: And can you verify that or do you want to
get into that period next?
Speaker 3: Correct? So, basically what the Franks did, and it started
with Peppin. He started with Peppin the Great, which is
the father of Charlemy. They started to see so of
course they established what a valley because like Frank's means
free and so so this was starting a club is
So that's a little bit before but starting at Charlemagne, well,
start to see a shift. And this shift is is
about it's seeing the papacy as a tool. So it
started with the donation of Pepin and then the coronation
of Charlemagne. So the donation of Papin is the moment
where the papacy became the theocracy, the moment where powers
are mixed between temper and the spiritual powers. And yes,
Charlemagne then used the Church as a tool, and he
tried to prop up the Vatican as being yeah, more
powerful and more important that it was.
Speaker 1: Especially I want to add two that I've added this
link in the chat. That's the link to the to
the classic article by of Father Denisius Dragas, which quotes
the letters of Photius talking about the spread of the
phillyoquay by Frankish missionaries. And everybody who's interested in these
topics should be aware.
Speaker 5: Of this issue. Hold on one second, hear it, man.
Speaker 1: So let's be clear about this quote. It's very important.
It's about the middle of the doctrine or.
Speaker 5: Of the essay.
Speaker 1: It says Photius knew, of course that the Roman Church
had don't approved of the Frankish philioquay, but Frankish missionaries
had been sent into Bulgaria, and so this is the
central all these stupid pop ups in this old s
GeoCities website.
Speaker 5: So let me put that quote.
Speaker 1: Let's it's not gonna let me, it's not gonna let yeah, yes,
here you go.
Speaker 5: Let me add this quote to the chat here.
Speaker 1: So that you know this is legit, because this always
comes up in debates and people always have a.
Speaker 5: Problem with this.
Speaker 1: Actually, I don't think I can fit this whole quote
in the chat, so let me just screenshot this for everybody.
Speaker 5: Anyway.
Speaker 1: So I apologize for interrupting you there, but let I'll
want to let you continue then. So we've got the
attempt to utilize the church in a political sense under Charlemagne.
So there is something to the critique of the Frankish power.
Let's be clear about this quote here it is. Meyer
published a study of the Photian Council of eight seventy
nine eight eighty, putting forward the thesis at the toditle
of the book was a successful.
Speaker 5: Council of Union.
Speaker 1: In this study, it concluded that a restoration of union
was needed for the convocation sent out of eight seventy
nine eighty. More specifically at celebrated peace.
Speaker 5: Once more in the Church of God. But he went
on to.
Speaker 1: Explain the basis of this unity with theological In his
own words, this unity meant, first of all unity in
the same faith. Photios was a strong defender of the
purity of doctrine. Indeed, where orthodoxy was concerned, Photios was
the true spokesman of the Byzantine bishops. Meyer goes on,
this is a Romancoulate writer. The West was also attached
to the great value of the purity of faith, but
in fact concentrated more on the question of devotion to
the Sea of Rome. As a big shocker right the
Senate of eight seventy nine eighty, the Father's care for
the purity of doctrine emerged in the Horos, the formula
of that synod which they proclaimed. This horror cannot be
understood as a dogmatic definition. But this is quoting the
romancolt God, but rather as a true expression of the
ecclesiastical feeling of the synod. It expressed by the conciliar
usage of the creed of the Niceno Constantapolitan production. There
is no in other words, the one that was produced
at Naicino constant not the Nicene Creed without the.
Speaker 5: Philique is what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt that Photios opposed the addition of the
philioquay to the creed on dogmatic grounds. It is in
his famous and cyclical to the Oriental Patriarchs that he
complained about the addition by the Frankish missionaries working in
Bulgaria because he was he considered it theologically unacceptable. His
whole argument is based on the conviction that the addition
undermined the unity of God. Exactly if you read the Mystagogy,
this is still correct. We find by Saint Photios. We
find that the same reasoning in his Mysticgagia as yeah,
here he goes in his letter to the Archbishop of.
Speaker 5: Aquileia.
Speaker 1: Photios knew that the Roman Church had not approved of
the Frankish Philioquay. So this is still in the period
when it's not yet a normative dogmatic issue in the West.
It does eventually become a normative dogmatic issue, and it's
later that we see the theology clarified, especially at the
Ceneta Blackernee, which codifies the Orthodox conception inconsistent harmony with
the sixth and seventh Councils. In terms of the christology
and the iconography, this is where we get the essence
inergy distinctions is where we get uncreated energies in Christ.
That's what's continued into our synods, and then the Roman
calitary Church goes its way. Anyway, I wanted to make
that clear. So let's move on to the next section.
What do you have next for us in the history
of the Francish Church.
Speaker 3: Oh well, so basically, yes, as orthodox, which would just
see that it started out well, it was the only
tribe that converted to Orthodoxy. But after Charlemaan's is a
real shift. He basically uses the Visigothic system, and of
course the Visigoths where being in Spain, they had the
things from the Toledo Console, including the few Aquay. So
at this point it's it's heretical. And then we start
to see the you know, the shift into the the Paschism.
So basically the Frankish Jewish was always pushing. It was
always a pushing for more papacy. It was very involved
in the Crusade and things like this. You have also
all the strange devotion starting popping up with the Franks
you had alive on this. We're gonna we're gonna talk
about this a little bit later when we talk about
the actual devotions and and and with this, we start
to see, you know, at this point the Frankish empires
was sort of dismantled, and you start to see basically
the rivals.
Speaker 1: Which period is this which.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're talking about high lages, high Middle.
Speaker 1: Ages, I'm mid lagies, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Okay, So you'll have one center that will be the
Holy Born Empire Germany and another one which was which
is the remnants of East Francia, which became Friends and
Germany when the road of more feudalism more the centralization
of the time, and France went to the road of
centralization because feudalism failed very early, you know, with the
One hundred Years War and so on. And what we
see is a consolidation of the power of the king
and the continuation of this idea of French the factocephally
and you know, whereas the king of the Germans, Henry
the Fourth was you know, being called humiliated by the pope,
you know at Canosa. Basically the Pope says that now
you cannot choose your bishop's public ex communicate you, and
excommunication then would be war, especially in a very decentralized state.
Speaker 1: So the invested your controversy where the the poe will
now decide that the selection of bishops and this is
not going to be in any way connected to the
idea of the king.
Speaker 5: Correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically the idea that friends went the other way.
Like we see kings, for example, we see kings from
the valwadynasty already starting.
Speaker 1: To say that again and said a little bit slower what.
Speaker 3: You will say. It's like the philip level and the
Valwadina state already starting to want more simplization and they
do not want to be controlled by the pup even
if it means refusing imperial titles. And that's when you
you will have, for example, incidents give the papacy. If
there was a king of Friends who basically sent a
commander to attack a Pube to capture a pub. I
think this was led by Chevalier the Nogay, you will
have this idea of more centralization and you will have
a strong state institution that are here to control theology.
And the University of Paris was exactly that.
Speaker 1: So so I'm sorry, I'm still confused. So you're saying
that that the French state power, which is embodied still
in Gallicanism, departs from the pope by wanting to continue
to have the control of who's the bishops, right, yeah, correct, okay, okay, And.
Speaker 3: You can see also through the Avignon papacy and so on.
So that's why there's the a yeah, yeah, this is
this is is this idea you know, difficult to France
so well as Germany was being repted this friends try
to centralize their compromise, you know, like it's Catholicism, but
it's the state still. And that's where you can see
that even even when French was nominally Catholic, they were
fighting against against papal primacy in exclusive powers to the book,
and you can see it in Gallicanism later on, and
you can see it things that combat against the Jesuits,
because the Jesuits were a papal tool try to infiltrate
trends and trans actually fought back.
Speaker 5: So the art.
Speaker 1: So the idea here is that this is why the
Jesuits become a tool of the papal power to go
into to basically subvert the French state power to bring
it back under or to actually to bring it under
the full jurisdiction of the papers.
Speaker 5: That correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that's what you'd see an it culminates,
you know, in this Gullican crisis one.
Speaker 5: I say, gotcha.
Speaker 1: So does this fit into the Council of v enn
and the Frankish throne and the templars? Does that play
into this?
Speaker 3: The templar very complicated matter because they used to be
very prevalent in France that there used to be this
This was with Philip Lebett. There was an agreement between
the purp and the king to push them out and
basically take their riches. Right, So yeah, I believe the
pope was from the Anian this one particular. If I
remember what I might be wrong.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I'm not trying to get too sidetracked about
Templar conspiracy. I'm just remembering that there was there were
complaints about the fact that the the Frankish throne wanted
there was a part of the Council of the end
controversy relates to the Frankish power versus the papacy. That's
part of the problem. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Okay, so what
do you want to take us next, So where do
we want to go into the into the next period?
Speaker 3: The next period historically will be will be the end
of Gelicanism and will be what's who I will use
as a basis with because yeah, I'll primarily use his sources.
Speaker 1: Okay, And this is this is Abbe GeTe who Vladimir GeTe,
who was a convert to Orthodoxy eventually, So if you
don't know about he wrote a really good book on
the papacy called The Papacy.
Speaker 5: You can get this on Amazon.
Speaker 1: I recommend that it's one of the good books to
read as a critique of the papacy, the famous convert here,
So tell us about this. And I don't you've been
saying that there's also a book that he's written on
Jesuits that we don't think is in English.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I don't think it's available in English. And
he wrote, basically his master magnum opus was a history
of the Church. So basically Gette was part of this
French Gallican Church and he had the approval of the
French Church, he had the approval of the king, and
he was mandated as an historian as well. All right,
about the history of the Frankish Church and the history
of the Church in general. And what's very funny is
that his four first terms of the history of the
Church got accepted by a Vatican and after they get
put into the index. So whenever people tell you that
gette you know it was not is that he was biased,
that it was anti papers and stuff like this. You
need to remember that the papacy actually actually accepted several
of his books and he continued his work, he got
put into the index, and and then the this crisis happened,
the Vatican One crisis.
Speaker 1: So basically it was so so the papacy itself appreciated
his research and scholarship until the time of back in One.
Speaker 5: Basically what you're.
Speaker 3: Saying, until he stepped he stepped too far into his stories,
into his story. And he actually writes this in his book.
He said that I was put into the index for
the papacy claimed that I'm being too partial. I was
put into the index for not being honest officially, and
he said that I was too light on the papacy,
uh with for this and yes, it eventually became orthodox.
If you know his story, call knowledge.
Speaker 1: What do you mean he was too light on the papacy.
Speaker 3: He considered himself, you know, to have not gone far
enough the papers.
Speaker 1: He said it was too far, but he said I
didn't go far enough. Yeah, okay, gotcha, Okay, go ahead, okay.
Speaker 3: So yeah, after this describes he went back and you know,
if many all Catholics like he, he had correspondence before this,
and basically you need to under sense that Vatican won
and it was supposed to be like a cry of
glory of the papacy. It was more for less breath
because it basically, I've destroyed a lot of traditional what.
Speaker 1: Was the last breath batic in one itself?
Speaker 5: Was you mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Because it set them on the course that destroyed
a lot of the traditional understanding.
Speaker 5: I see, it wasn't that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't didn't do and have a good quote that
somebody put in the Discord the other day that something
like from now on, Roman Catholic apologetics will be nothing
but trying to debate about the papacy.
Speaker 5: It wasn't that something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's from It's from the same book
I put it there. So Dolinger was basically the equivalent
the German equivalent Ignazan Dolinger of of GeTe. He became
an old Catholic and get became Orthodox and do Linger extensively.
You know it was also an historian. He was part
of this historian Catholic historian. We rejected all this. He said, no,
it doesn't match historically, and yeah he wrote this quad
it's it's beautiful. He said that from known all the
art of theology performed by Roman Catholic theology will be
about determining, uh, which level of infallibility the pope has
in any statement. And he compares it to the Oracle
of Delphi. It's the oracle of the tile. Like you
need something, you don't need to look at audition, you
just ask him and see what comes out. So, yes,
this was this great shock in even a traditional Catholicism
in Europe. So what we need to understand is that
a elegant one is actually is everything but traditional. And
that's why you had most of the historian you rejecting
the paper. Lawyers were fine, of course, that many many
false document to use. Actually, Dollinger wrote extensively about the
papist falsification. It tells you that basically you will have
upwards of ten layers for a single quote of falsification
anytime it mentions the failure quick anytime it mentions the
primacy of bitter. So basically it's unusable. And you can
see it in the patology and the.
Speaker 5: Tona, which is unusable. Which thing.
Speaker 3: Basically, all the quotes Roman Catholic will send you all
the so called patristic quotes and stuff.
Speaker 1: Like this, because there's the layers of including forgeries, there's
layers of what jesuit interpolation is that what you're saying.
Speaker 3: You love the Dominicans, you will have the Jesuits you
will have. And sometimes it's shocking, you know, sometimes you
will literally see that there will be a little an
notation it was edity, so this was edited, and you say,
the original said this, but what's changed to be correct
to the doctrine just crazy because it's literally admitting to interpolation.
But sometimes you will compare, compare the Greek and the Latin,
and you will have a whole paragraph just appearing out
of nowhere in the Latin edition that it's talking about
the philurequy, for example, And yeah, sadly, you know, when
you look at Dollinger's work, it was a great Catholic historian.
Most of the story. We can get most of the
manuscripts you can get get from the Vatican heavily into
politic Really, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1: I see, I see and all this, and you're saying
that Geta noticed this, or many French writers have noticed.
Who has kind of pinpointed the interpolations and this kind
of stuff. Who's who's noticed this? I mean, I know,
you guys have.
Speaker 3: Most of the old Catholics, you have a lot of people.
But Getty was really the foremost French afthting on. He
was a great history and he saws the historical discrepancy,
and then he looked back into into Catholicism and then
he realized that, yes, of course it was Orthodoxy all along,
this was the Church describing Matthew sixteen eighteen. And then
he looked back at his work, you know, as the
history of the Church. He looked back at all this
darkma history and he wrote about it from the Orthodox perspective.
And that's when it becomes all clear. And we have
him to think because the pin pointed specific heresies, He
pin pointed specific historical events that do not match up,
and he pin pointed the heavy influence of the Jesuits,
and right now many texts are very difficult to find
that we can be glad because he was an historian,
he was accredited, he had the approval of the king,
he had the approval, he had full access to the
Library of Blois, which was a huge Catholic library, and
he could wrote us all this about the heresies, about
the prelate's devotions and about the heavy influence of the Jesuits.
Speaker 5: Interesting. That's why I'm okay, So what's next on your list?
Speaker 3: I want to talk about the devotions? You know, the
idea here was mainly to vindicate.
Speaker 1: Okay, and let me pracace us by saying so, basically,
this relates to some of the criticisms that we've put
out in the last several months, which is an old criticism,
that is that what we see in the manifestations of
devotion between Orthodox Theology and Roman Catholicism is very different.
And there's a reason for that, particularly in the second millennium,
the two churches go in different directions, and Orthodoxy of
course makes a big point to stress that our experience
of God, we think is unified. We don't think that
there's a different experience amongst say, monastics in Greece on
man Athos, as opposed to the church fathers who had
the experience of God in the desert, you know, one
seven hundred years ago, the experience of the Light of
God of Mount Tabor, all those types of things. Theosis
as a process is unified, and that means we don't
see the really weird out there, fringe, crazy stuff. And
this was something that really stuck out to me when
I began to investigate Orthodoxy back in about two thousand
and seven, when I was a hardcore trad Catholic, and
I actually, you know, to be honest, I had some
issues with the weirdness of some of the so called
Saints of Rome Catholicism, specifically the women, specifically the flights
of emotion that they talk about, the stigmata, the sexual imagery,
and a lot of those things. And what eventually became
evident to me was the fact that in this I'm
not saying this to distract from you. I'll want you
to talk about your topics and the translations and all that,
but one thing that stuck out is if you read
a cult Renaissance Church of Rome. He points out the
fact that in the Renaissance papacy, you had a lot
of usage of nudes, a lot of usage of things
that like the Goddess isis being painted and used in
one of the papal apartments or something like that. And
this is very especially Bernini, this is very prevalent. After
you know, all this stuff is used in the Vatican.
And to me this always stuck out as a tremendous
hypocrisy because of the trad obsession with mortal sins, and
yet I can't go to the Vatican without having, you know,
tiny little peepees on Renaissance people sticking out everywhere, and
giant boobies of chunky women everywhere, butts everywhere. So I mean,
it's very absurd that this nude art is everywhere. But
at the same time we're told about this, you know,
absurd doctrine of mortal venial sins, which is not what
first John's talking about.
Speaker 5: It's not a distinction between mortal and menial sins, by
the way, anyway.
Speaker 1: So that with that in mind, that always stuck out
to me as a problem. And so I think that
Preluss is a much better example of explaining what's going
on here when we have Fassina Kowalska claiming that the
host floats around the room to her and Jesus told
her personally, you're my favorite of all the nuns. We're
basically boyfriend girlfriend. All this kind of absurdity which is
nowhere in an Orthodox spirituality at all. And the fact
that Rome Catholicism accepts Orthodox spirituality in terms of unionism,
which is just a plot actually to bring people back
onto the dominance of the Roman bishop, shows that there's
not a unified experience of God in the Realmian calogy church.
You can't have this absurd sexual imagery and weird stuff
being true and the stigmata being true at the same
time as the stuff over here with Oh, but we
also accept Palamism, you know, since we've made Palamas a
saint in our unit it circles and we know accept him.
None of that makes any sense. It's all completely contradictory.
And what it shows is that the evolution of dogma
the umbrella of Rome is really just an umbrella of
the power of the papacy, and we're seeing that unravel now.
But so let's talk about those spiritual practices I remember,
you know, as finally it was. It was Larshae when
I got a hold of Thank you to Father Moody
for sending me the Larshae trilogy where he talks about
the healing of spiritual illnesses, and that to me really
solidified the difference between the way that we view the
body the way that we view the practices of asceticism.
In the East, it's different than it is in the West.
You're not flagellating yourself, you're not mortifying the body. The
body is participating in theosis, and so that the purpose
of asceticism is completely different.
Speaker 5: So I'll let you have the floor now after my
little rant.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, correct, So I will first start by addressing
something a lot of people accuse us, you know, of
hitting low and criticizing satans on We don't. We don't
criticize the person. We just say that here's the devotions
are not good and and yes we need to point
that out. And you know it's been down through the
forms of meme and stuff like this, because not everybody can,
you know, go on a theology debate and at some
at some point people need to see I believe people,
can you know I'm not appealing to emotion here, but
people can feel what's right what's wrong, and we can
and here we're gonna express didn't discuss, you know, the differences.
But yes, I believe that this is a talking point.
It's not eating low, it's not slendering. It's talking about
this practices which exists.
Speaker 1: Just say hitting low, yeah, like a low blow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, okay, Yeah, we've been criticized for this. It
is very interesting. And and yes, first of all, we
can see that Orthodox theology not the body, and this
is not a book by lash, it's just a great,
great theology in the theology of the body. It just
expresses the classic autogous point of view that believe in
a fallen world, fallen nature, and all bodies actually healed
by the Divinity. And we can see that it culminates
in theosis, the theosis healing people and the light of Tabor.
This is the ultimate mark of sanctity in Orthodox Church.
Speaker 1: And that's unified across the board. We don't think it's
different for anybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we for example, we we had a lot
of Western Saint like John Cassion who actually was a Parlamite,
so to say like, yeah, they are part of this
tradition of in this view of sanctity, and what we
can see in Rome, especially after the schism, is that
it's totally reversed. Like we we see the appearance of
devotional hurting, like it's not fasting, it's not, it's it's
really hurting yourself, altering yourself. This is already against going
against canons Canon twenty twenty four of Saint Basil. If
I remember well forbids you know self harm is it
basically says that it's on the same level as killing.
You cannot you cannot hurt your flesh because you're fleshed
participate of this. That's ale link to many things, you know,
or we are buried, the belief in reincarnation, so on.
And we see not only people like flash people that
start to hurt them to want to experience pain, but
we also see marks of sanctity that are alterations of
the body and that are painful, you know. And we
know that pain comes from the fault. It's not divine.
It's not coming back to the original adamic state. It's
not you know, the pain is the result of the fall.
You cannot be divinized into a result of the fall.
And that's exactly what the stigma is. And if you
look at it, for example, the ones of Patrick Pierre
very very noticeable, they look purulent, you know, some people
purulent like basically some people even compared it to like
it says it looks like her pies or it looks
like it looks like you s won't and it actually hurt.
And this is a complete it's a completement version. And
even if we look at earlier Catholic things, they were associated,
you know, with motition, miracles, healing for example.
Speaker 5: This is a great point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that that there's gifts of healing according
to Saint Paul, and there have been many healers. And
then suddenly though in the Middle Ages, after we get
this schism, the Roman Catholic Church begins to develop these
very bizarre practices that this is a great point. That
seem to be obsessed with paying debts through pain, and
I think we have to mention indulgences and the paying
of debts too, because that's a big part of it.
Even though the official Roman Cathology might not ultimately condone
that although indulgences are a false doctrine, the idea is
still there. That you're kind of paying for things, paying
for temporal punishments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of the percent penal substitution theologic. So yes,
you have these marks appearing, and that's very that's a
total invention, and that's that's very we have to say
the least. We're going to address some of the most
famous ones, for example, Francis a Sisi and Francis a Sisi.
You know, we have father serp In Rose who acily
wrote about this and he said that it can it
can well be prolete, it can be fake, but you
believe that there was some idea of you know, it
being psychosomatic. And this is very much linked too. And
we're going to talk about the Jesuits now very much
linked to the introduction by many Jesuits of the idea
of emotionality in this cult. So before the cult was
removing your emotions, removing uh these things and you know,
being ascended through the removal of emotions, you know, saying
John Cassion called all these emotions spirits like the related
to demons, like a whole set of little demons that
can pull you down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is pretty key. I want to
stress this. This is something that is in the debate
between the barley Mite and Palamas, he talks about this
very point where he says that the passions are not
inherently evil in themselves per se, but what happens is
that when we follow them in an inordinate way, it
becomes demonic. And so what happens in asceticism, and the
whole purpose of asceticism is self control, so that we
can achieve a state where we're not dominated by our passions.
That's the whole point of this. And what you get
here in this stuff is the inversion of that. And
the man's psychology becomes inverted, and it becomes obsessed upon
the sort of punishment of the body and the whereas
you have a harmony between man's faculties in the process
of theosis, this gets inverted and you get the dominance
of emotionalism. And that's what's so key to here, especially
in these weird women saints who think that Jesus is
saying that their boyfriend girlfriend stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to come to that because women were
prime target, especially for Jesuits. So yes, basically we have
the introduction of emotionality and suggest with a big part
of this and for example, you know Saint Francis Assisi,
and people as this started to picture themselves being crucified,
taking the place of Christ. And that's why that's what
Father Sefi Rose theorizes. Basically, they would it would be
psychosomatic ones because they would have intense emotion in them
all the time, and that at some point the body
would just accept, Okay, I have nails in the hands. Yes.
Speaker 1: And even though that that Filipino practice of doing this
to yourself and doing this on Good Friday is supposedly
officially condemned, the point is that it's you're seeing these manifestations.
I'm not saying that the whole church is false because
people who are villagers do these things that are not condoned.
I mean that happens in any religion. But what I'm
saying is that these manifestations are happening because there actually
is an around us anthropology and an erroneous doctrine of
how to heal mankind in the Roman Catholic scheme.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Correct, And you have this idea of you know
the fact that there is no more exclusivity, and this
is probably because of a nestorianism.
Speaker 1: Because there is no more what you say that again,
exclusivity in what sense.
Speaker 3: There's no more, for example, exclusivity of Christ as being divinized,
because that's when you see a lot of prophecies being
shifted from Christ to the Theotokos.
Speaker 1: So basically everybody becomes a kind of Christ who can
participate as a sacrifice, is what you're.
Speaker 3: Saying, exactly, And that's what for example, if you look
at what Loyola wrote, So the first Jesuit, the guy
who funded the it's exactly this. He believes that he lived,
you know, physically with Christ around. He believes that he
was anointed by the Father. And and the term used
is associated vives the son. And that's why they took
this the name Societa, Yes, the Company of Christ of Jesus.
And they they really were into this historianism, and we
can see it in at every step of the dogmas.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, this is this is key, this is key.
Let's let's highlight this. So you're saying.
Speaker 1: That there is an implicit sort of lurking nestorianism in
this idea that there's not one soul son of God
who's the divine person of the logos who took on
human nature who's in hyposthetized. There's now the possibility in
this mystical union of anybody becoming a participant in their
own kind of little savior in this process of the
crucifixion in their own life. And that's why everybody kind
of takes it upon themselves to sort of induce a
kind of self sacrifice. Almost, is that what you're saying exactly?
Speaker 5: That would a story.
Speaker 3: Not only that, you mentioned a lot of women Saint
who who thought that basically Jesus was there a girlfriendfrid
well whatever. Because of this, this removes you know, the
idea of mystical marriage. And this was pointed out. You know,
if the like Theresa Favilla, you know, women who got
Catherine of Sienna ala Coq, which is really the worst offender.
People who get like foal skin rings as a wedding gift,
People who believe that there is a marriage to be
arranged personally between them and Christ. This this is corrupting
the idea of the mystical marriage of the Church of
Christ into a into an exclusive personal marriage between one
none and Chris y thing.
Speaker 1: So this is this little the error of Nestorianism and Christology.
The same kind of error that would apply to the
the tokos. It's being transferred over to the error in ecclesiology,
that there's one mystical body of Christ, which is the
whole Church, is now being transferred over into the mystical
experiences of the individual saints.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's being what's the word I'm looking for, it's
overly sensual and it becomes this kind of weird sexualized thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm going to come to the civilized thing.
So basically what what we see. Okay, I'm going to
take writings by French French priests on the times it
just started to pour in. Okay, this is what after.
I'll probably talk about the Council of Trent first. So
before we talk about all this, I know that there
will be people who start to say that you'll have you,
you can be a Catholic and not be Cheswich, you
can you can do all this and not be ches
which you don't have to accept it. It's just one company.
It goes further than that, and we're going to go
a bit later on. We're going to be go a
bit further later on. If the implication of the Jesuit
everything they did are powerful there, but the key in
Catholicism because the leader of the Council of Trent was
a Jesuit. It was the general of the Jesuit lanies.
And this council is the basis of Roman Catholic dogma,
so you can't really dodge it, you know. And it's
at this point that they refuse the idea of a
traditional considerasm. And there, of course, during this Council of
Trent where basically this man Lany says that, well, you know,
the church and paraphrasing here of course before anybody is
not translating, well enough, well you have people who want
to come back to the Church of the Apostle, but
there is a time and there is a need. That's
what he said. So basically they acknowledge the fact that
they were not following the traditional organization of the church.
And in the same consult the declared that the church
is the slave to the Pope, that the church that
all the bishops are servants to the pope, which was
not the case before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, just speaking just on this little
side note, isn't it Captain of Sienna who says something
like even if the pope is the devil, we must
obey him.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's Captain of Sienna who has a
famous quote about that that even if the Pope were
Satan and he were to come to you, it's your
duty to submit to the pope, even if you say it.
Pretty funny quote. I mean, I know that's not calic, dog.
I just want to throw that one in there. But so, yeah,
so this is good.
Speaker 5: Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's when you see that they start to
infiltrate a lot. So I will go on the politics
side a little bit later. We're going to focus on
the weird devotions a bit more. And and I'm going
to quote this uh uh, this French French priest Rucily
wrote writes about suggests and the infiltration most like most
notably in the University of Paris, and he criticizes a doctrine.
Speaker 1: Hold one second something, before you quote that, I just
want to let you know I'm not going anywhere. I'm
going to step away just to pour more coffee. So
you do your quote and don't pay any attention to
the fact that I'm stepping away. I'm still here.
Speaker 3: You really need to hear that, Okay, let's go.
Speaker 1: Well, no, but if I step away, some people, if
you see me step away, people get distracted and they
think I'm leaving or something. But so go ahead and
read your quote, because everybody's seeing the picture of Terresa
right now.
Speaker 3: Okay, So he starts by criticizing their doctrine and then
he says they are spreading into the people, especially among
the women Catechism which is filled with some superstition that
are here to enslave their mind. So here you can
see that they already saw the primary target, and they
already saw that through you know, removing the exclusivity and
through putting a lot of emotionality. There are prime targets
in women. And that's when you see, you know, a
lot of stigmat appearing, all these weird evotions appearing. And yeah,
some of them were clearly in the Storian And we're
going to talk a little bit about about Saint Mary
Margaret Ala Cock.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, this is a great point too, because yeah,
and we want to keep the Nestorianism in mind, because
it is going to be relevant when we get to
the issue of a sacred heart, because the heart worship
and the sacred heart stuff is a manifestation of what's
explicitly condemned as an historian by the council's officers.
Speaker 5: So anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm going to read what's not read, but
I'm gonna tell what's sweeten, especially about Maggie Mary Margaret
Alacoque in Getta's book, and Getty had access to the
original and the guy who wrote it was a father
just with and he was sainted kind of nice simply
because he wrote this.
Speaker 1: I've been contradicted, you know, before we go into that,
because there may be a lot of people in the
chat who aren't familiar with this story. She's the one
who claims that Jesus carved out her heart and put
his heart in her right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So basically all this is serious information. I've
been called many things for putting this forward. If you
look at Catholic apologies to the website, they all contradict themselves.
There's no primary sources. Is the closest thing we can
get to the primary sources, and it tells us that
some of the weird stuff might be in the future
destroyed by sess regarding the method. So yes, the woman
I thought she had a special relationship with Christ. She
saw him appear to her at night in a room.
A lot of the time, they would say, they discuss
a lot of things, and here comes a weird devotion,
you know, the devotion that involved blood, and that involves,
you know, the reviving of old Frankish mythos. To just
control the French polation better.
Speaker 1: So be real clear and elaborate that point. Why is
this a reference to the old French mythosh.
Speaker 3: So you talk about this on the previous life. Basically
Frankish Frankish.
Speaker 1: Hard worship, right, is that where you're getting at?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would have the her worship and
they would have a lot of bloody worship. They will
have violence of blood of the saints. I believe the
blood that some particularities the Franks, I believe there were
different race almost at times, and there they will have
a lot of focus blot and the judgment will use that.
And you know that's what this French French priest he
said that they are reviving, Uh, they are reviving superstitions.
Speaker 1: So the j are capitalizing on the superstition and basically
kind of targeting women for this. That's what's key here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you see that she did a lot
of crazy stuff, like she claims that after each time
they met, she would do blood letting, which is also
linked to the old Frankish tradition of you know, do
blood letting of the meetings between lovers, if not sex.
You will also have this, uh, this tradition no of
taking the organs worshiping them, and that's the whole is
a sacred hurt. That's a that's this that she claims
that the Christ just pulled the herd out of her
chest and basically they switched. You will have you know,
her carving her breast chest.
Speaker 1: Now, what would you say to somebody who says, just
to play double's advocate, I don't think this. But what
would you say, that's just a symbolic imagery. You're intentionally
uh you know, misrepresent our saints.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not, because you know, all these things were
put forward, you know also in the context of the
counter Reformation and this this stuff. You know, this physicality
was here in clearer position. Do you know, the more
means the less the new president of So they would
do all they can to push the the emotionalities, they
will do all they can to push the physicalities. They
will do all they can to push you know, your
tocos because yeah, you know, order to plan as a
lot of Protestants, and for the longest time, as this
was believed to be to be true, to to be
actual miracles. And right now you see a lot of
modern Catholics taking the Protestant wrote sadly and starting to
deny the miracles. If I were oppose this kind of criticism,
I would say that if you start denying your miracles,
when we deny the transpartantiation in the Eucharist, is this
we believed to be miracles?
Speaker 5: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean typically it's not interpreted as merely allegories
or spiritual tales. I mean they're interpreted to be real
miracles exactly. That's why they're saints. You can't be a
saint in the real mechaolic scheme unless you've you know,
done the vat can approve miracles.
Speaker 3: Exactly. And actually, when the when the stories about the
Holy Hurt were being translated into Italian, the Pope God
is and on it and he immediately rejected it. The
you know here theological leaders, right, and he he rejected it.
And what it justit did was waiting for the next
pop to come about, and they they started to push it,
and I think they pushed it two more times until
the pope eventually gave in and he said, okay, you
you can have this devotion, even if it was forbidden before.
You can have it, but it needs to be the
allegorical hurt so the love of Christ. But of course
they didn't. They didn't care, and even when it was
previously forbidden, they would go around and sell little medals,
little books and so on to popularize the myth around
the population. Maybe they didn't hear of people infallibility at
the time, but yeah. Basically they would go behind the
back of the pope to further the dogma. And even
though the suggests were usually allies of the pope that
would like they are here to his own goals.
Speaker 1: So they were utilizing the superstitions to further their plans,
and even under papal suppression, they still continued to do.
This is what you're saying, And we should make another
point too that part of the reason for this being
a problem is the Jesuit idea of inculturation. If you're
not familiar the Jesuit pross approach to missionary work was
different than a lot of the other missionary approaches, both
in the first millennium of the Church and in other
orders like the Dominicans. The Jesuits really pioneered the idea
of inculturation, which was the idea that you kind of
just utilize a lot of the ideas that are in
the existing culture. Now, everybody who does missionary work to
some degree does some kind of inculturation. I mean, Herman
of Alaska did versions of this where he would find
what was good in the Aluit culture and so forth.
So it's not that the whole thing is wrong, and
the whole history of the Church, which is encounter with
Hellenism for the first millennium and all the councils dealing
with the Hellenic presuppositions, which the Fathers are very clear
that the Christological heresies are all built on Hellenic dialectical presupposition.
So I'm not trying to oversimplify it. But there is
an aspect to which the Jesuit approach was unique because
they were the most extreme when it came to trying
to meld the Christianity with the existing culture, and so
they would be the most pioneering of acumenism of all
these different weird practices, and that's why it gets into
the weirdness in the period that you're talking about, with
the promotion of these devotions that would be in previous
periods seen completely to be absurd. But in the Roman
Catholic scheme this is justified by the fact that theology
is always developing, it's always growing. It's a seed that
grows into a giant tree, and that therefore justifies all
of the innovations after the first millennium.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and we can go in a bit further,
you know, there's some more points went to cover. So yes,
there's this, there is this diversity of devotion and basically
every every thing, every ideology, every people, every group of
people will get their own specific devotion, even if it
doesn't make sense. So you will get load for the French,
you will get Akita for the Japanese. All of them
are devotion of the Theotocos. You will even have the
Lady of All the Nations, which is a specific devotion
of the Theotokos, which was invented after after World War
two to promote you know, peace in the world. So
this is just you know, creating devotions, to be interesting,
to be relevant, to be hip. And again there is
this specification which is about again showing that there is
no more exclusivity. You know, the Theotokos is not only Theotokos.
She's also here to protect Europe, the European Union. She's
here to protect the Japanese specifically, French specifically some children.
And you have this.
Speaker 1: She's being used as a geopolitical tool in in much
the same way as the Jesuits were utilizing a lot
of these these sort of superstitions as tools of their time, I.
Speaker 3: Mean the emacular conceptions, so mode and stuff like this.
It was pushed by the Jesuits and some method as
the as the Sacred heard. You know, there was a
debate and they pushed it to make it very popular,
and the Pope was a bit endstiled at some point
because you would lose a lot of people if they
the united So so yes, there is again.
Speaker 1: And let's not forget that the pioneers and Champions, along
with the Royal Society of both the Big Bang Darwinian
evolution and the rejection of creation and the Patristic doction
of creation and the Six Council's profession of faith about
creation has been none other than the Jesuits. I mean,
I know that typically Tahar dis Shardine is cited as somebody,
oh the Vatican censored him. Yeah, But now since he
was censored, the post Vatican two popes have all made
some very glowing, loving statements about the wonderful theology of
Tahard de Shardin. And what did I just post on
the Twitter this this week from Father Surfin Rose and
his magisterial book Genesis, Creation and Early Man was the
fact that Tahar de Shardin claims that he became convinced
of his evolutionary dogmas because he talked to the thing.
I am not joking. He literally claims to have been
walking in a desert talking to the thing literal John
Carpenter level theology, and the thing told him that everything
is material evolutionary flux, progressing towards the Omega point, the newosphere,
et cetera, et cetera. So here are the champions of
the rejection of the doctrine of creation none other than
the Jesuits. And so I've really been struck this last
week by the fact that, I mean I knew this
in the past, because I've read three or four books
on Jesuits over the last ten or twelve years. But
it's really struck me how instrumental they've been in pushing
fraud paleontology, particularly Tahart, who was present at many of
the paleontological frauds.
Speaker 5: Pilt down Man, this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: They've been central in promoting Lemitra the Big Bang, which
is a secularized version. So the Jesuits are so interested
in culturation that they're even trying to water things down
for all the atheists, right. And what we noticed this
week as well was that the natural theology propositions and
Aquinas's acceptance of death existing before the fall, it's only
natural in Humani generis, Pope Piesta twelve wealth would so
easily accept theistic evolution. This is what natural theology is
a big part of this. And natural theology is just
part and parcel of this overall Nestorian doctrine that you're
talking about. That the Jesuits are really pioneering here because
it's a Nestorian, because perennialism is a Nestorian. In fact,
you can go look up that Perennialist James Custinger, he
has a talk where he said that they ask him
why did you become why did you move away from
Orthodoxy towards perennialism, And he says, because Jesus is just
an avatar of this overriding God that we can all
experience and all be a part of. That's an Nestorian.
He literally says, Jesus is a human person and the
son of God. Is this mystical experience across all the religions,
and that's why that's the secret, you could say, to Nestorianism,
to all the hermeticism, that's the secret to this garbage
of Tahart and the Jesuit Is this undergirding Nestorianism that
you pointed out, This is this is devastating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also some healthy level of originism. You know,
the idea of Christ as returning as a spherical form.
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, the body.
Speaker 1: It's not an actual body, it's the higher spherical form
that we're all transformed into in the resurrection.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I just wanted to cover one or two more topics,
not directly to the jugement, and then we'll switch to
the very political idea of the Jesuits. But when it
comes to the theology of the body, we can also
see discrepancies. So we talked about the sigma. First of all,
this little football thought. It is a painful mark that
appeared mystically on people that made them recognizable, and it
was after the schism. It sounds eerily similar to the
mark of kine, you know, stually, the fact that it's visible, painful,
and things like this just foot for thought and and
I want to touch really quickly and the idea of interruption,
because the idea of interruption is also different, it has
been altered. And so interruption basically is the idea that
people that have been touched by the spirit, saints and
people like this, their body will not corrupt, they will
not decay as preparently or as passed. And this has
been observed in Orthodoxy for quite a while. And what
we can see is the is that the Catholic, especially
the New Saints, the very popular one is they are
trying to cover it. So for example, if you look
at an Orthodox incorrupted saying, you will see, for example,
since spirital since Spiriton is currently residing on the island
of Corfe, and so he was a father parcipate as
the Council of Nicea. So that's very early, and they
he basically looks like a mummy, but he's still you know,
supple is flexible. His skin doesn't break, and things like this.
It doesn't it doesn't look pretty, but it's it's interrupted.
It's not you know, the French is not rotting and
things like this. This is interruption. Actually you can you
can go there sometimes sometimes of the year and they
will give you relics of him. You know, they would
just change his clothes and and give you your relics
of him. I think my girlfriend has even got one
from there, which is very cool.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: That's another way to be connected. Previ at the Kubi
may and and in the meantime you will see in
the Catholic Church, for example, for the the Lord Revelation.
So it's it was Bernardette Subiru, which is so a
miracle that confirmed the dogma, which is also something very
interesting because miracles start to from dog mouse starts to
confirm that the pope is right, which is very interesting.
She she was believed to be in corrupted and they
basically put a layer of wax on her face and
claimed yeah, she's corrupted and and things like this, and
when they exhubit, they realized that she wasn't, so they
actually had to redo the wax thing, or actually they
did it just after. But the idea is that no,
there is not even there's not anymore the thissunderstanding of incorruption.
You know, incorruption must be spotless. It must be you know, perfuction,
it must be ah ah yeah, it must really imitate life.
It's not showing something particular, it's it's it's aping it.
And we can see it with Pard Pierre as well.
Pard Pierre, you know, he's got a very h is
animated in the church and you can see it basically
looks like a snow white is in a glass coffin
and in there he's got a silicon mask on his face.
So no, there is this theology of the flesh of bodies,
a blood, bloody devotion push off. The Roman Church cannot
given snowashing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's funny. He does look like snow white.
Speaker 3: That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. There is this idea of the
contactcept interruption is they need to if you think it,
they need to cover it to mask it. And of
course he shows intent and things like this.
Speaker 1: Now, this is kind of new to me because I
never really paid attention to this aspect. I didn't go
see you know, Patrick Pio or anything. And do Roman
Catholics try to defend a silicon mask or do they
say it doesn't exist or you're just making that up
or what's the usual response to this?
Speaker 3: Oh, you will have a lot of responses. You know,
basically it's I don't know what the official stance is
that you know, if it really was was not a problem,
why why put a silicon mask on you? So you
have a lot of people who say is incorrupted. For example,
Vi Bernard and Subiru. They had to retract the claims
of interruption, I believe because they realized she was not interrupted.
You know, even behind that works.
Speaker 1: Really, so yeah, they retracted incorrupt incruptibility on Bernadette.
Speaker 5: I didn't I didn't wrong. I just didn't know that.
Speaker 3: I should look it further. But basically, there were there
were claims, and there were it was confirmed that yes,
her body did corrupt. And that's what you see is
the whole theology of the body is a full inversion,
and you know, sometimes it's going the other way around.
Sometimes it's it's pushing as far as possible, and we
didn't have that in the West originally. You know, I
come from as Us in a very important sayings there.
Speaker 5: You come from where from basically a region.
Speaker 3: Of friends, and they have once we have they were
as yeah, and we had this thing. For example, Saint Adelia,
the first miracle was that she was born blind and
she was cured for healed of blindness. It was all
about healing. And then you start to see things.
Speaker 5: Like this.
Speaker 3: New kind of miracles. There is this still today. You
will see people being very product The euchary is bled.
The euchar is blood, and we have say we've blood
that coagulates and decoagulates, and.
Speaker 5: Well it doesn't.
Speaker 1: There's one of those where they actually claim that Jesus
is blood like you know, like it returns. And there
was a priest who supposedly wrote a book because he
did a DNA test on the blood. He was going
to find out Jesus DNA from this.
Speaker 3: There were they will claim. You know, it's very old,
that commune way. First you know that it's been attested
for a very long time. But we know that they
didn't have been used as zoom as bread. Yeah, after
all the claims.
Speaker 5: That's a good point.
Speaker 3: So, yes, this fixational blood and I think ultimately when
you talk about ron Catholic and I will end on that.
Speaker 2: You know, for the.
Speaker 3: For the weird devotion, people can feel at some point,
you know, they can feel that, Okay, we're not seeing
the glory of God. We are trying to marry more
than anything else we are. We are not seeing as glorious.
We're seeing Him as you know, in pain. There is
statues with blood painting on it. The human aspect is
very much brought forward because of course there is latent assurnism.
It's a very mutagenic topma. You know, it's it can
fly under the radar because you know, it's trinitarian. Christ
is still God. But at the same time it allows
for a lot of yeah, personal stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. Ultimately, Yeah, we want to
highlight the Nestorian aspect of this, which is good.
Speaker 5: That's really good.
Speaker 3: And I when I go further on then Asturianism, and
I'm gonna start a part in the Jesuit purely the Jesuits.
I like to attribute you know, Messianic prophecies to other people.
Basically everything about the rock in in the Old Testament
will be a beer of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not fulfillments of Christ. It's everything is about
Peter exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you will have you know, the crushing the head
of the snake, which is all about the Theotokos, not
not the Messiah. And they even start to attribute themselves
as the Jesuits prophecies. For example, there's a prophecy of
yes Issaiah which says that I don't remember exactly if
it's it's It says something about being nurtured by the
state and Hu sucking on the breast of the gentiles,
you know, the kingdoms and so on. And they said, yes,
this isn't the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know the prophecy. I think it's I think
it's as the forty two or forty five, and yeah,
it talks about the conversion of kings to the church.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And they basically claim that this prophecy applies to
them as the associat I used to buy itself because
they they had friends in high places, because they were
helped by the friends. This isn't the first the books
that basically record the just with history of the first century,
they're talking about all this. So they start to attribute
prophecies to the company itself, which is very interesting, and
we can see that really quickly it became a church
inside the church. And for example, you will have them
come to the University of Paris, which I mentioned before,
and several times they would go into trial, you know,
to to claim they basically claim university chairs and this
is the University of Paris was like, okay, we can
do that, but you need to specify what are you?
Are you laity, are you a monk? Are you a priest?
What's going on here? And they played on this. They
played on the fact that the Jesuits are organized, there
is a solid core and then there's everything that that's
gravitating around it. And they would actually use these status
you know, in many of their operations, and that's all.
They will push people. They will push people in high
places and sometimes they were not even they did not
even have such adult of charge. And we can see
that there were paper balls. So I'm gonna name the balls.
It's Regimini Bilitantiscleasia, which is the first one exposit deby
two and these two balls basically said that from none
the Jesuits will have free reign whenever they come to
a place. Uh, the bishop bishops have to conform to them.
They cannot be excommunicated. They need to be listened to.
When it comes to theology. They have the right to
absolve people, so they basically they have the sussible to
charge even when some of them are just lated. They're
not priests. And you can see here one of the
fulfillment of the Trulo Council, the Truelo Console for bids.
You know, congregation congregations that are that are following specific rules,
so orders of people and yes.
Speaker 5: Let's make that point. Let's make that point here.
Speaker 1: So Trollo the Quinness Council is important because it was
accepted at Nicia too. So this is an earlier almost
ecumenical council that eventually does get and receives ratification at
NICEA two the seventh Ecamenical Council, and the Roman Catholics
typically will admit that, but they'll just rebut by saying, oh,
but the Pope, because of his supremacy, can go back
through and pick out the fur four canons of Trollo
that he doesn't like, and that's why they don't hold it.
This because Trollo also says there should be married clergy,
and the Roman Catholics respond by saying, well, yeah, but
the Pope just decided that that's that's not true. So
they're doing the same thing here with the religious orders.
That's why there's not all these different crazy orders and Orthodoxy.
There's no Franciscans and Carmelites and all that. There's just
monastics or not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and yeah yeah. So basically, Trullo so that
if you start to make orders the specific rules and
people that are sworn to each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like secret societies.
Speaker 3: Basically, it will end up in secret society. It basically
said that since secret societies are crime already, let's make
things that becomes secret society anathema. That's basically what said.
So yes, so they started to organize them stuff, and
they got a huge reach because that very specific method.
So first of all, they came about in a time
where you know, monastic orders were not doing so well.
The Pope had finished these cruiseades against the mystics, and
at the same time you had gone to Reformation coming in.
So the Jesuits were very effective because there they were
organized as an army Loyola used to be a military
man as they took control of a lot of stuff.
And for example, we have many many instances of them antagonizing,
antagonizing the present population, even even through dogma. You know,
the concelt of Trent was that. But as Jesuit and
there is there is all these things to to push
against the plant, to further the split between the Presistants
and the Catholic That's when you see start to see
like a lot of focus on the course because the
president ate it and so on. It communicated in massacres.
You have massacres for example in Portugal, whether the Jesuit
would just come in antagonize the population, gets pre made
absolution and just lead mobs of people to the Protestants.
You have stuff like this in Poland. In Poland, there
used to be this. In Poland was very Central Europe.
There were between there were Catholic, but they were between
the president German states and between Orthodox the Slavic Orthodox
nations and that really great king. At some point we
proclaimed religious freedom. I'm not saying Prestin is the school.
I'm not saying we should not fight against it in
any capacity, you know, especially from the Roman Catholic side
of things. But this thing will proclaim Rich's freedom. And
as soon as he died, the Jesuits started to push
for I think it was Henry's Henry the third, so
Duke of Andrew, and they excited him into just attacking
and antagonizing Orthodox and president that when you see the path,
the political path of Poland, but was still at this
point because the antagonist the president and the Germans and
the orthodox in the Russians, and you know, this nation
later on was crushed several times between these two nations
because of political actions like this, and even today, you know,
you'll have a lot of you know, traads claiming, yeah,
Poland is this very rad thing. It's it's a traditional
Catholicism first of all, in the way they expressed their religiousity,
it's kind of similar to Orthodoxy because a Slavic component,
every Slavic, every slav people are to some exchange sons
and daughters of Sarah and Methodius. And you know, Polish
people should be proud of this because this actly destroys
the country two times. There's actually had some good things
going on before in terms of really stories. Yeah, it
was even famously the only country which did nothing against
the Jews. So the main idea is that anywhere the
Jews the Jesuit would come, it would be a mess.
Speaker 1: And that a second well, this is interesting because this
completely flips, you know, by the time of the twentieth
century with John Courtney Murray and the Jesuits that were
very influential at Vatican two.
Speaker 5: Uh, you know, even even the.
Speaker 1: Fake trad like Malachai Martin kind of he details all
this at Vatican two and the different peritis periti that
were consulting at Vatican two. Malchai Martin was consultant with
Cardinal and then we have John Corney Murray being the
champion of religious liberty and the idea of removing the
notion of a confessional state. That was what he was
the point man for that. He's even being lauded as
you can see here and it's always backwards in American
magazine as the champion of religious freedom. And this is
why I have to stress one of the most important
books if you want to understand traditional Catholicism Vatican two
and understanding it from the Jesuit and the geopolitical angle,
is the David Wimhoff book John Courtney Murray Time Life
in the American Proposition. Now, I know this book is
a little expensive, but it's actually worth having because it
shows the CIA's doctrinal warfare program is where they allied
with the Jesuits to steer the Roman Catholic Church, particularly
at the time of Vatican Two and after Vatican Two,
into being a tool of the Cold War to promote Americanism.
So to promote Americanism, they needed a front up people
within Roman Catholicism who were willing to go against the
idea of a confessional state to champion religious liberty and freedom.
Which is ironic because this sounds very contrary to you know,
previous Vatican MASSI I mean Jesuit machinations, And it is ironic.
And that's because and one can debate the whole meaning
of the Jesuits over the centuries, but regardless, in the
twentieth century they become the leaders of the revolution within
the Roman Catholic sphere. And there's many reasons for that.
There's older reasons that you've been pointing out. The deal
with the kind of the implicit heresies and the implicit
historianism and culturation that's present amongst the Jesuits, but at
least in the twentieth century. What Wimhoff is documented in
his book, and this is eight hundred pages of a
thousand plus footnotes, as the traditional Catholic himself, he's documented
the fact that this is quite literally a known CIA program,
and the CIA program was successful in turning the Roman
Catholic Church into a branch and arm of Americanism, and
the Jesuits were at the forefront of that. That's very
important to understand. So and by the way, I'm not
saying that the Jesuits run the world. This is not
This is not a book that's like kookie level conspiracy stuff.
This is like actual intelligence level research stuff here.
Speaker 5: That's what wim Hoff's book is.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's nothing to do with black assassins of the
underground layers of the Vatican. That's not what we're talking
about here. We're talking about real, legit, hardcore documentation written
by I believe Wimhoff is a lawyer. So he's obsessively
documented this with with like a thousand footnotes, and it's
a really solid piece of research. It's a huge key
to understand the twentieth century in Vatican two. And I'm
I'm this is somebody who coming from somebody wh used
to be a traditional Catholic, who spent many years in
that world devouring traditional Catholic books, from the SSPX to
the FSSP, to Michael Davies to the Sada's to all those.
I just devoured all that stuff.
Speaker 5: From many many years.
Speaker 1: I've even read the liberals like Xavier Wren, Paul Blanchard,
I've read them all, and this is the best book
to understand the geopolitical ramifications of Attican too.
Speaker 5: In the relationship to the Jesuits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually I focused on them more ruthless. You know,
ways to gain power in Europe, you know, because it
is true sometimes they will even claim in their oath
to be able to be kingmakers and where in the past.
But you see that this idea of adapting to culture.
It has been promoted, especially during the colonization era, because
they were very important in terms of colonization. And you
will have records of them going to the Indians, starting
to play dress up as Indians.
Speaker 1: You will have who's the one that went to the
Japanese member him he's well known for this, like the
Japanese Jesuit guy and he's all dressed out like he's
a freaking samurai.
Speaker 5: It's pretty funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know the specifics, but the Jesuits are
very famous, you know in Japan or in famous because
during the period of civil wars, the single Guidi, there
would be an influence and there will as spies, you know,
basically they will travel VIP.
Speaker 1: The they were This is important point, thank you. Yes,
they were the essentially functioned in part as spies for
the Batican.
Speaker 5: This is a this is a key point.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And they would work with they would go on
with the merchants and think like this, and you even
see them engaging in industrial espionage. First of all, they
would try to take away the competitive advantage of you know,
Chinese people in Japanese people by and you know, stealing
secrets of chinaware, you know, or to make chinaware, and
they will actually you know, inform you know, the army,
they will inform. The Purban band was a very particular
case because during the period and the single there was
this this fight against this Western influence. And after the
period closed, the of theed operia started. So after this
huge island wide civil war, there will be bands on
Christianity specifically because they were seen as a bad influence.
And even with that, the factor leader of Japan at
the time, he basically whenever he learned that there were
Christians that were not Catholics Jesuits, he will he would
want to have them at the court. And you have
the famous history of William Adams. William Adams was the
British guy and as soon as go yes, Sir filnd
that they were Christian which were not Jesuits, which were
not this wrong influence on Japan, it would actually try
to bring them in and William Adams actually but it
didn't promote Christianity of course. But William Adams for example,
was given the title of samurai and he could stay
at the Emperial Court called the basis.
Speaker 5: Of that Goofy Tom Cruise movie.
Speaker 3: Is that what I remember that because that will be
during the Boshing War, so that's later. But basically there
was a British samurai and the only commerce that was
done uh with the Europeans will be through Protestant Dutch
at the time. So basically the over influence of the
Jesuits just caused a lot of massacres of christian in Japan.
Even the converse. There was this movie Silence, you've seen it.
He talked basically the persecution of Christian and Japan and
it's following just with missionaries would come even though the
countries closed down.
Speaker 1: Oh Silence, No, no, I'm sorry, I get that mixed
up with the one with the mission with Robert de
Niro from like ten years earlier. But no, I know
you're talking about, but I haven't seen Silence.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you U should because well I'm not gonna
spoil it then, but it's actually not. Yeah, you'll see
the difference between when when the Japanese people, you know,
the Christian convicts have to show faith and you know,
prepare for mount to them, whereas where he has to
face it. I'm pretty sure that would be a good
movie review.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right on the team Jesuit foreign influence and yeah,
so basically you have all this this, there's a very method.
You will have them involved in evangelization of many places.
You know in the Caribbean. You start to see verdu
because there is this lenience around the I think it's
like like Lady of Guadalupez. This is again it's it's
a miracle that just tailored, you know, to to get
things working politically. As the old Lady of Guadalupe was.
Basically the idea is that, oh no, there there has
been the apparition of an icon of the theotocus, but
she was looking like the Aztec people, and basically a
lot of the feminine Susstotal class adopted it there and
today you can still see in Mexico there's like Santa Verte.
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is another point too. This is why
Orthodox iconography never pictures Chinese Jesus Black Jesus, because it's
very important did Jesus be the Hebrew Jesus that he
was to fulfill the prophecy to be a descendant of David.
So you can't do Chinese Jesus. Jesus was in Chinese,
and that's why all the Orthodox iconographal iconographical presentations of
the Saints always retain their historic qualities because we're not gnostics.
Your lineage in your people group is important because as
we see in the apocalypse, it's people out of every tribe, tongue,
and nation that are called and you don't lose all
of your historic physical qualities in the resurrection that's a
gnostic doctrine. And that's why you can't Well, this again
speaks to the Nestorianism, right, because if there can be
Chinese Jesus, then Jesus historical instantiation as the Word of God.
You know, in a single and hypostatized historical instantiation is relative.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again you've got this idea of non exclusivity
and diversification of the ocean, like every little people needs
to have this pain you've got. This is adult miracles.
Oh yeah, right now we've got a lady Pho the Aztecs.
Oh good. Yeah, and oh it's the end of World
War two. We've got a lady for the piece in
the world that really we will have old Mother of
Soy soon enough, just give it a few years.
Speaker 1: A Mother of Soy said devotion of and stuff like that,
old Lady of the new.
Speaker 5: All right, yeah, and you'll know. So notice here that.
Speaker 1: In the typical iconography of Christ, you'll see that the
whole on that's these Greek letters are in the halo.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Those are actually in the Byzantine iconography. Their references to
the I am. And this is a statement that the
same divine person who said I am that I am
is who is the single divine person present here that
you see. There's no created human hypostasis present. Christ is
a fully human nature. But the human nature has for
its hypostasis the divine person of the word alone.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 1: So that's why we are so stringent to avoid Nestorianism,
is because we want to avoid all these errors. And
that's why orthodox icronography always pictures Christ the same. You
don't see an icon in Orthodoxy. Maybe in weird Roman
Catholic stuff they'll make a Chinese Jesus or something, but
you will always see Christ in having these features. There
might be a little variance because of the styles of
Russian iconography or Greek, but you'll notice he because he's
a Hebrew. And if he's not the historic Hebrew Jesus,
then the whole thing is nonsense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, and okay to come back, Okay, what else
can they say? Still, I want to point out against
this idea that this group is working and it's always
a bit nebuless. You don't really know who is the hardcore,
who is the just the followers with laity with an
actual priest, and they they are taking advantage of this
you know, to infiltrate, and I'm when to go a
bit further. First of all, it causes a lot of
problem because you know the paper balls that I caught
it basically said that I know you have laity that
can perform sacraments, which is is such a total charge.
What's the point of it. You've just dumb dumbing people
or not performing for sacraments, even according to Catholic theology.
But again about this organization, and I want to talk
about more the the more modern chest with we see
that they try to infiltrate a lot of things, and
they and the first thing is actually totally to control
over was a Vatican. So before there used to be
the dog of the pope and now basically the pope
is a Jesuit. There was this idea that you know,
there is a black Pope and the white pup like
the Pope and the black pup the law commander of
the Jesuit general of the Juguit, and no, basically Francis
is both. So right now you have the fusion of it,
and you see that the very interesting relations between the
papacy and between the Jesuits have come to fruition. So
they will not listen to the purpe and be very
pragmatic where wherever the pope was not working for them,
and they will push your pop forward. They would prop
him up when he was working for them. And at
some point they even were disgrace you know, it was disbanded,
but they still managed to come back. And right now
the Purpo has absolute power and the Pope is a
jest with and we have a lot of people talking. Yeah,
maybe that's why Ratzinger was pushed aside. I'm not going
to go into that, but no, we have to think
because people who promoted all these areas, it's people who mean,
we don't really know the dogma, we don't really know
their relation to the occulture. We don't really know what
is a final goal? Is it just power? And we
have them at the highest position of the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I want to make one little point
to hear about the geopolitical stuff that I stumbled upon.
So as most of you guys know, if you haven't
heard the full Quigly talks, I also did the other
important Quigley book, Angle American Establishment, and he actually talks
about the Rothschilds and the Cecil Roads roundtable groups being
kind of the power behind the throne. There's a fascinating
section in Anglo American Establishment where quickly details that the
power structure actually utilized the structure of the Jesuits to
organize that secret society, if you were, call quickly refers
to them as the Society of the elect.
Speaker 5: The Society the elect was.
Speaker 1: About the twelve most powerful European and British families Astors,
raw Child, Cecil, Roads, et cetera. There was about ten
or twelve of them, and then they had an out
that was the inner core, the inner party. You could say,
they had an outer portico of what they called two
or three thousand helpers that was people recruited at Cambridge, Oxford, Eton.
This is who's running the British empire. Basically this is
the model for the American empire. Right, so the American
Empire does sort of morph out of this because the CFR,
the trial out or commission, what's the power structure in
the US that was all set up by these people.
So some of those families are not as important as
maybe they were one hundred years ago when Quigley was
writing about them, But regardless, it's still roughly the same
power structure, and they specifically said they modeled their inner
society on the j Justus. So once again, let's keep
in mind, this is the same power structure as the
Royal Society. That's who the Anglo American establishment is, same
group the Royal Society, who are the biggest promoters of
Darwinism and evolution in the last one hundred plus years.
Speaker 5: Them and who else the Jesuits. There you go.
Speaker 1: I want to stress this, and I'm not saying that
I can prove definitively that, oh, well, secretly the Royal
Society was allied with the Jesuits.
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 1: I'm sure eventually people could probably dig that up. But
what I am saying is that I don't think that
it's an accident, and I do think it's interesting that
these two global power groups, both the elite of the
British Empire and the Jesuits, were so formative and instrumental
in putting all of their power and influence into promoting
Big Bang and Darwinism and all the frauds of pilt
Down Man and Nebraska Man and all that stuff. Tahart
is there for all that stuff, Jesuits have been very
influential on this, and I think that has to be
kept in mind and stressed, as you pointed out, because
now what we see is the entire Roman Catholic structure
being run by a Jesuit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that would be probably my conclusion. And the
Jesuit is that even from the Roman Catholic perspective, there's
a big problem here is that the idea of the Pope,
the idea of Catholic of theology, and the concept of Trent,
this is done by and through the Jesuits. And even
after that, the Jesuits were you know, allies, enemies in
any way, very bad force for Roman Catholicism. You know,
it introduced heresies, it's fought against the Pope, and this
is not acceptable in Roman Catholic dogma. The problem is
the enemy was in your mist and now you can
truly be a Catholic and you know, hold very adversarial
positions to the Jesuits, but at the same time you
can't really follow the dogma and follow the Jesuits. So
you kind have blocked here. It's been infiltrated. Yes, And
I also want to to say a quick word to
the Orthodox. As I described the Jesuit work you know,
as a core and then affiliates which sometimes are not
even you know, fully fledged Jesuits, allies and things like this,
and they are working for the same thing. And now
we should look at the Fordamites because they they are
Jesuit affiliates to work for the Fordham University, which is
a Jesuit university, and they push the same stuff as
they as a Jesuits.
Speaker 1: And there are Legiance that's also a CIA university exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and basically you see like arcam like is this
is this equivalent order you know to the Jesuits that
start to pop up. You have priests in there, but
at the same time you're pating even they push for
with stuff and sometimes they go like borderline heresy, lot
of daments, you know, there are also we should we
should look uh, we should look at this because it
seems to take the same road. And and yes, this
this is with the the new tool of suest with
which is over ecmmunism, you know, ecumunism and this idea
of dissolution that right now we can approach all the
things that we're not gonna fight, we're not gonna mix it,
we're gonna bring things forward and just try to get
our differences out, which all differences are to the dogma
or faith, which is something very important to just start,
you know, merging into this pro mode of thing like yes,
this big blood religion, world religion, and and that's what
we're going to see. With the Amazon synos. They will
basically say things like, yes, of course he can worship Tree,
but you know, in a way, Tree is also God,
and and this is this is the whole creation, and
there is no it's all toophorical, and that's what he's
gonna end. Really, So yes, we should think about this
because this is a new methods with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they're going to be instrumental in
promoting the you know, new world order type religion that
Francis seems to be very keen to. In fact, he
was just saying this week that it's time to create
a new global humanist religion. Now I'm going to really
blow your mind here everybody in the chat, just as
a kind of a weirdo thing to finish off with.
Probably some of you intrepid researchers out there can figure
this one out for me. But this came up many
years ago when we were doing a call with John
and Chris. There is a very weird Jesuit cave uh
and it's called the underground. Underground Jesuit caves in Europe
that are and they're filled with Egyptian, Islamic and cartoon art.
Speaker 5: I am not joking.
Speaker 1: It's just outside the city of Mastricht in Belgium and
it's known as a Jesuit cave.
Speaker 5: I'm not joking.
Speaker 1: There's the link in the chat underground Caves and the
artwork throughout these Jesuit caves. I know this sounds crazy,
it's real includes cartoon characters. Now why, I don't know.
Maybe somebody can figure this out intrepid researchers. I suspect
I can't prove this, but to me, it's reminiscent of
sort of. It looks like mind control type stuff. It
looks like the things that you would do if you
were doing hallucinogens, that you might show people.
Speaker 5: But maybe not.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're just bored and drawing cartoon scenes on walls.
I'm not joking.
Speaker 5: I'm going to show you the art here again.
Speaker 1: Anybody who knows what this is, please enlighten me, because
I have no idea but as you can see that,
here are the cartoon characters on one scene. There's multiple
scenes like this, really really weird stuff, literal cartoon characters.
And I don't know when this one was drawn. They've
been drawn, I guess in different centuries. This was drawn
in nineteen sixty. Here's your Jesuit Disney cartoonist. It includes
a giant Egyptian snakehead. Here's some more cartoon characters with
puppy dogs, bring puppy dogs, bringing dinner, talking daffy ducks.
I mean, are they just tripping out? Are the Jesuits
just tripping a bunch of acid underneath.
Speaker 5: Underneath the city.
Speaker 1: But it gets weirder and weirder because they also have
other religious imagery, such as.
Speaker 5: Buddha.
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's in the essay.
Speaker 5: You can that article.
Speaker 1: It appears, as far as I could tell, to be
a real thing. Jesuits were past masters in copying world
famous arts and structures. There's even a version of Picasso's
Old Woman in here. Why were they doing copies in
an underground cave?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is just really bizarre stuff, So just a weird
one I wanted to throw in for everybody jesuit cartoon art.
So if you want to leave us some super chats
as we sort of come here towards the end.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I just wanted to tell you that. Okay,
so jesuits is not my preferred topics. So in the future,
if we want to talk more about this, we actually
have people from the same collective who actually studied this
more and we could go a bit deeper and probably
go more into the occal side of things. I didn't
really want to go there, but to bring a little
bit more nuance, and in the future it might it
might be possible. We have other people who are Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1: Not really trying to go into that. I just wanted
to mention it because it came to mind. I didn't
want to forget the weird underground cave with cartoons. I
just I couldn't resist mentioning that.
Speaker 3: But if you're interested in digging further, we have other
people who are very very much qualified and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I want to make a point there
that if you want to connect with Snack, his discord
is listed there. The French Orthobos have their own discord.
They do a lot of apologetic and translation discussion.
Speaker 5: Work in there.
Speaker 1: There's his YouTube channel, a lot of that's in French,
and then also his Twitter and he's pretty active on Twitter,
so you can connect with his material there.
Speaker 5: Anybody wants to support us, I'll do some super chats here.
Speaker 1: We only got one superchat right now, Lawrence asked, does
anyone want to match my superchat?
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, there you go, thank you.
Speaker 1: We do got a good car out of two hundred
and thirty five nerds in here, so I'm glad to
hear everybody real quick. I'll read some of the devotions
of Faustina Kowalska that we've critiqued here. Vine Mercy in
my soul. She says that the host floated out of
the tabernacle and rested in my hands. Later on in
that book, page eighty nine, she says, while I was
holding the host in my hands, I felt the amazing
Jesus power upon me.
Speaker 5: By the way, you're not.
Speaker 1: Supposed to hold the host, right, it's supposed to be
given to you by the priests. But anyway, and traditionally
speaking right, but it floated to her.
Speaker 3: What's funny is that you've got Roman Catholic being very
you know, like pushing, you know, Alacoq and people like exist.
But you have some some of the traditional Catholics, like
I mean he said actist, right, I don't know traditional
that is, for example, there's a demon. Brothers. Yes, this
devotion of kovaska is is wrong for all the reason
we quote it. But the problem is it also applies
to other devotions like a la coq.
Speaker 1: Exactly once you critique this is a great point U Kouska.
On these points, the same thing will apply to a bunch.
Speaker 5: Of these women saints.
Speaker 1: And I want to admit mention too, a gemma who
threw herself down a well. Yes, I know that some
asthetics have gotten pretty radical and maybe mortified their their
body in a sense that that would be extreme. That's
different than being suicidal and throwing yourself down a well.
And if you read for Catholics, I would challenge you
read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Donatus.
Speaker 5: I read.
Speaker 1: I reread it again actually a few months ago, and
it was very instructive because I had forgotten, because I've
read all the Antidonatus works by Augustine, I'd forgotten the
fact that the Donatists actually did this. And Augustine condemns
them for this, the Donatists would throw themselves down wells,
and he specifically talks about that. It comes up in
the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Donatis. So what what
I'm getting at is that this manifestation of devotion is
not of God. It's heretical, it's prelest. Anyway, she goes
on in her treatise to vine Mercy to say that
Jesus told her personally, I want my specific mercy to
be worshiped. If they will not adore my mercy, I
will punish the whole world. I'm uniting myself with you,
as with no other creature. This is the nestorianism that
you talked about. If you pray, I will bless the
whole world. I will punish the whole world. Tell your superior,
superior general world that you are the most faithful nun
in the whole order, you are the greatest saint.
Speaker 5: Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: There's all this nonsense, and you realize that this is
this is not this is all total pre list. And
if you were to admit that that's all total pre list,
then all of these same women that we've been talking
about and it's not just women. There's other weird men
that did similar stuff. It would apply to all them too.
And by the way, I just did I just wrote
that essay on the prophets of bail, and it made
me think of Elijah and the prophets of bail. Right,
cutting yourself and all this kind of stuff is exactly
what Elijah faces with the profits bail j C.
Speaker 5: Rubug ten bucks. He says, thank you.
Speaker 1: Both, very many blessings for your hard work.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, Jesse, appreciate that. And do you have
any comments on that?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: Thanks, No, I'm in on what I was saying about
Kowalska and the.
Speaker 5: And that stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The thing is, you know, no, it seems apparent.
You know, people start start to realize that's what we
have to tell. Because people start to think for themselves,
it's easier to get informations out and and you know,
we can we can start to understand. You know, all
these things were hidden. You know, these are the fact
that things were explicit in the story and the pop
actually knew about it, but it was never brought forward
fair enough. For example, the pop news that the Holy
Heart Sacred heard and that Loyola who were pushing for
an Estianism, but it was hidden letter the holy what
sacred hurt?
Speaker 5: Oh, sacred heart?
Speaker 1: Okay, I think it's a sacred herb.
Speaker 5: Would say, the sacred herb.
Speaker 1: Dude, it sounded like you said sacred herb like Rastafarian.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, what do you okay? So ruffling Stack said,
what do you have to say about just with liberation theology?
This is another had hog dogma, you know, the same
thing they would have ad doc dogma to integrate people.
This is, I believe part of the political movements in
South Southern America, South America, and and yes it was.
It was created to to to to adapt. It's it's
another adult dogma.
Speaker 5: Basically, you want to read the wim Hoff book.
Speaker 1: I've read that.
Speaker 5: It's good.
Speaker 1: Again, I'm stressing it because we want to understand there's
a mythology amongst the trad anti communist collective. I'm joking
the trad anti commy world where they are under the
impression that the liberation theology was a communist thing that
the Jesuits pioneered. There's an angle and element of truth
to this, but it's also way off because it buys
into the Cold War dialectic, and wim Hoff is great
at busting that Cold War dialectic because I want to
stress that the main pioneers of liberation theology. Yes, there
are many liberal Jesuits and liberalty elogians who did that,
but they were doing that at the behest, not of Moscow,
not of the KGB, but at the hest of their
zillionaire banking Western elites that funded them. And wim Hoff
grasps that. So he's a great myth buster to many
of these tracks. And that's why this book is so good. Also,
I want to stress too, a cult Renaissance church, if
you read a cult Renaissance Church of Rome and you
read the whim Hoff book, you will have most of
your trad myths busted from the geopolitical and historic perspective.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've heard of it. Do you give you
to read?
Speaker 1: So that's what I wanted to say Raffling Stakes, is
that those books are really good and sort of busting
a lot of these these this trad mythology like that
AA one O two five that's actually just cold war propaganda,
this idea that that Moscow is sending all of these
KGB agents to infiltrate the papacy and all this stuff.
The papacy was already corrupt, The papacy was already a
problem way before Moscow was struggling with its atheism. So
you have to understand the problems go back way beyond
the twentieth cent This is Vatican Two is the outworking
of centuries and centuries and centuries of issues and errors.
It's not something that just pops up in the twentieth
century after a pious the twelveth suddenly starts to you know,
accept theistic evolution, and oh suddenly it's the infiltration of
the the Freemasons. Right, that's an element, there's an element
of truth to that. But again, there are problems that
go back for the Even Malachi Martin in his Jesuit
book admits the problem of the Jesuits, and he was
a fake trad. Even the fake trads can know that
the Jesuits are a huge part of the problem. And
then it extends back even further than just the twentieth century.
Speaker 5: Do you have any more.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, do you have any more information or
anything else you want to touch on before we kind
of wrap it up. BELLA. Dodd That's what I was
trying to say. No, no, I'm not saying that Bella
Dodd's congressional testimony is fake. I'm not saying that Bella Dodd, though,
is putting out information. And a lot of the Cold
warrior people really thought that the enemy was the KGB
in Moscow. But that is a faux enemy, is what
I'm trying to stress to you, And even the Trads
are starting to finally figure this out. It's not the
KGB that's bringing in the new world order, it's the
Fortune one hundred. What I'm trying to tell you is
that the threat of communism in America was largely a
fake threat. The real threat was the Fortune one hundred,
who wanted the Cold War to transition us into the
period where we are now. That's why I've done a
thirty plus book analysis of the globalist writings of the
last century which shows this point. So it's not the
communists versus the West. It's the international elite who are
corporate who are bringing in this technocracy. That's the real plan.
And Francis and all his clown crew all part of
bringing in this new world ordered religion. They're the religious
arm of this same plan.
Speaker 5: It's that simple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a continuation that a lot of people are
going to say that everything went wrong at the Vatican too.
It's a long work. And yeah, as a papacy at
the internet flows with them dogmatic in e canciology. He
started very early and like we've covered I's suestment, we've
covered hundreds of years of history, that single good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, all right, well, thank you for those
super chats there again, if you want to support his work,
I've got the links there in the show description, and
if you want to support Jay's analysis, you can subscribe
at my website, buy my books signed copies in the shop.
You can also join at the joint button. If you're
on a macro PC or you you can you can
just like and share. That's much appreciated as well. We're
going to see a lot of algorithmic changes on YouTube
in the coming months, so it helps of course to
to like and to share the shows. All right, thank
you Snach. This was a fascinating, excellent conversation for people
who want to get a little more of the central
point about the differences in devotion. There's the excellent Jean
Claus'll called Larchet book on the difference between the two
churches in terms of the devotion. And then, of course
I would just say again for anybody who wants a
brief treatment of the of the theology and how the
theology it leads to the differences of practices and the practice,
read the debate between Palamas and a barley mite. That's
only I did a whole talk on it a couple
of weeks ago. It's only about one hundred pages. And
he even touches on the the differences of devotions that
were that were already becoming a parent back in his
century when he was debating the barley of mine and
the barley of mine is essentially just another kind of
roughly the tonistic type of position.
Speaker 5: Roughly speaking, all.
Speaker 1: Right, thank you Snach, great show, great talk, much appreciated
for all your information. Thank you everybody in the chat
and all the nerds, great show. Anything else you want
to say, I.
Speaker 3: Know, thank you for having me, and will be available
if you want to go further on some topics, So
if you want to look at other things, and yeah,
keeping posted for the movie review about Silence, I would
really like to have your opinion.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you reminded me of it.
Speaker 1: There's so many movies I need to get to, but
all right, God bless everybody, have a good night.