WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:04.360 Golf Smarter number three hundred and sixty seven, published on 2 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:06.879 January twenty two, twenty thirteen. 3 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:12.119 Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 4 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:15.759 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 5 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:21.800 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 6 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:26.679 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 7 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.320 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 8 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:33.640 Golf Channel picked up a point in January of seven, 9 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.759 and you know, I told my wife in December of six, 10 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:38.560 I said, if they don't pick us up, I'm done. 11 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:38.960 I'm out. 12 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.000 Because I had already kind of been through CBS and 13 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:43.600 NBC and they were really the last network. The proma 14 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:45.799 TVs was only really three people to choose from me. You 15 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:47.600 have three customers, and if they all say no, then 16 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.280 you're not You're that business. And I was literally within 17 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:52.520 days of just giving up and moving on. 18 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:55.039 Could you have really walked away from it at that point? 19 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.079 Yeah, well, at that point, I mean I loved it, 20 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.479 but if there's no business for it, you know, started 21 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:03.399 that if I couldn't prove a legitimate business, it was 22 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:04.079 time to move on. 23 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:04.560 Like it or not. 24 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:08.000 Came down to really really a couple of days and 25 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.480 around Christmas of six and Golf Channel did say, hey, great, 26 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:12.879 we'll do this three year deal. 27 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:22.879 They said, we'll do it one tournament, Part. 28 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:26.040 One of the aime Point putting system with creator Mark Sweeney. 29 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:31.439 This is Golf Smarter sharing tips and insights from golfers 30 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:34.040 and golf professionals to help lower your score. 31 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.640 It's worked for your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the 32 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:38.799 Golf Smarter podcast. 33 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:40.359 Mark. Thanks, hey, Fred. 34 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:43.120 It's so good to hear you your voice son on 35 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.000 the other end of the line here. Because so many 36 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:49.159 Golf Smarter listeners have said, have you talked to Mark 37 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.120 Sweeney at main Point Golf yet? Why haven't you got 38 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.319 him on? Even Nick Chirtak, who introduced us as a listener, 39 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:59.760 longtime listener and a golf friend of mine, says, this 40 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:01.599 is what golf Smarter is all about. 41 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:03.959 Is where I'll tell you. 42 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.280 Okay, so what is it tell me about aim point 43 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:07.920 A point? 44 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:12.240 Well, any point started off as a basically a TV product. 45 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:14.759 So what I did is I wrote a piece of 46 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:16.719 software that could figure out how to put from any 47 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.319 point on a real green to any other point. So 48 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.439 There have been some research done on this before, but 49 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:24.240 it was always done by you know, professors, and on 50 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:28.159 some very kind of sterile environments, not real golf greens. 51 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.520 So I basically just attacked the problem and got it 52 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.360 working and got it on the Golf Channel in two 53 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:35.759 thousand and seven and we've been on there with them 54 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.800 for about six years now. And what that led to 55 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.000 is a teaching curriculum. So what I learned by simulating 56 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:45.000 thousands and thousands and thousands of putts was that there's 57 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:49.000 some actually very predictable patterns and that we, as normal golfers, 58 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.680 can can use some very simple rules and predict very accurately. 59 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:52.479 What break is. 60 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.400 What were you doing that you were considering writing software 61 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.479 program for television? 62 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:03.960 Well, I was bored. 63 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:07.800 Basically, I was in the Uh That's the flattering version 64 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.280 of the story was I was bored. I'd been working 65 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:13.080 in finance and in high tech and I just kind 66 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:15.120 of had some free time and I was I was 67 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:18.039 playing tons of golf. I loved golf, and I had 68 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:20.719 a background in software development, so I it was something 69 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.360 I kind of knew how to do, and it was 70 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:25.919 a sport that I really enjoyed, and I thought, you know, 71 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.400 why is nobody really attacked or solved this problem? And 72 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:30.719 so I just kind of put my mind to it 73 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:33.520 on the side, you know, on on weekends and the nighttime, 74 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.199 and just sat down and started chipping away at the problem. 75 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.400 And surprisingly it came together pretty quickly. And when I 76 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.240 started testing the software, it worked much better than I 77 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.080 thought it should. So I thought it would be you know, okay, 78 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:48.919 or be interesting, but it actually really worked well and 79 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:50.639 that got me thinking, okay, well what can I do 80 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:52.639 with this? And my pro at the time said you 81 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:54.680 should really take this to the networks because they would 82 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:57.400 love this for TV, and you know, took it took 83 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:58.560 a year and a half two years for it to 84 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.800 actually get on TV. But that's genesis of the idea. 85 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:05.919 And were you an entrepreneur or had this entrepreneurial spirit 86 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:08.319 about you in your career previously or it is like 87 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.840 all of a sudden this started happening and you're telling 88 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:15.919 your wife and seventeen children. So I got this idea 89 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:17.800 that I'm going to be leaving my job and I'm 90 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:18.519 going to go do this. 91 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:22.720 Yeah, I guess I had the entrepreneurial spirit, but I 92 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:24.800 was working at big companies. I worked at Hewlett Packard 93 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:27.240 for about five or six years. I worked at Cable 94 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:28.959 Vision up in New York, and I think I had 95 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:31.879 it in me, and this kind of put me over 96 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:34.959 the edge to kind of stop doing the big corporate 97 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.360 you know, working in a cube everyday thing, and branch 98 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:38.199 out by myself. 99 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.279 So it was just fun, you know. The biggest thing 100 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:42.079 about it is. 101 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.360 You know, it was just something I had a real 102 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.879 passion for and I had enough skills to figure out 103 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:47.600 how to make it work. 104 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:50.040 And then it kept me on the golf course too. 105 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.519 Yeah, so sitting inside all day, it could actually be 106 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:55.120 outside in the sun on the golf course, screwing around 107 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:56.480 trying to get things working. 108 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.279 And taking a year and a half to get the 109 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:03.079 networks to I guess signed the deal. I guess they 110 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.040 were listening. How long did you get them to take 111 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:05.519 to listen? 112 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.680 It took a while. I showed it to track record. Yeah, 113 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:13.920 well that was the hardest. I had two difficult things. 114 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.720 The first was I wasn't in the TV business or 115 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:18.959 in the golf business, so I was kind of a nobody. 116 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.120 So I did get in and saw some producers at 117 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:25.079 CBS who thought it was great, and we did some demos, 118 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.959 but the biggest obstacle was actually convincing people that it 119 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:31.439 was doable. So when I went to the networks, a 120 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:33.600 lot of people say, well, that's cool, but I don't 121 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:36.000 believe you can actually predict what a putt will do 122 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.079 before you hit it. And it took a lot of 123 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:40.519 demonstrations and a lot of time in front of all 124 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.040 the networks, in front of the PGA tour, in front 125 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:45.839 of golf instructors, in front of the talent to say, 126 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.319 you know, this actually does work. And even after I 127 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:51.439 was on TV for a year and a half, two years, 128 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:55.319 we still had people saying, yeah, but conceptually it really 129 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:57.639 shouldn't work that well because of wind and grain and 130 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.439 footprints and you know, you know, all these things that 131 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.360 pop up on the golf green that you can't predict. 132 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.680 And there was a big resistance to it, a big resistance. 133 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.800 And then so luckily, after you know, years and years 134 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.480 of showing this, when I say that, I mean, you know, 135 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.560 two or three years, people realize, yeah, you know, it's 136 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.800 not one hundred percent accurate, but it's ninety seven percent accurate, 137 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:17.800 which is good enough. 138 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.920 It's better than the networks. 139 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:22.519 And It's better than not knowing anything. It's better than 140 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:24.040 getting up to putt and going, well, I thought it 141 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:25.800 was going to go left and went right. How weird, 142 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:27.639 you know, and then move on to the next the 143 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:31.120 next shot. It actually gave you a really accurate prediction. 144 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:34.120 Okay, I want to get into the depth of that. 145 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.560 But before I go there, we're recording this in the 146 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.959 beginning of January and coming up, breathing down. Our next 147 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.560 is the annual PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando, the big 148 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:51.319 daddy of them all. And you've been there, now how 149 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.800 many TIMESGA show? 150 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:54.879 Three times? 151 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:55.519 Three times? 152 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:58.279 I've exhibited three times. I've been there probably five or 153 00:06:58.319 --> 00:06:58.800 six times. 154 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:02.079 Okay, and right because as you were developing this, you 155 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:04.319 were probably scoping it out and seeing what's out there 156 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:07.480 and what your competition is, right right, yeah, okay, So 157 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:10.639 I've not been to the Orlando show. I went to 158 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.720 the Las Vegas show a couple of times. And the 159 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.319 one thing that really, what's the word I want to 160 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:19.120 use here, depressed me. The one thing that I thought 161 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.879 was sad were all these guys And this is what 162 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:25.560 I want to throw out this warning right now. All 163 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:32.920 these guys who are have an idea that they have 164 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:37.720 the greatest tea ever made, and they just think, I'm 165 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:43.399 giving up my Hewlett Packard insurance salesman job because I've 166 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:44.279 got this great tea. 167 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.959 Yeah, you know, it's that was the very first thing 168 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.079 that struck me, too, is how much stuff there was. 169 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:54.360 And when I say stuff, I mean just cras garbage. 170 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:55.560 Yeah, thank you, But. 171 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:57.759 There was so much garbage. I mean, there were so 172 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.839 many variations of very simple things. And I remember thinking, 173 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.399 how in the world to these companies say in business? 174 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:06.120 I mean, I just I just don't get it. And 175 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:07.240 a lot of them don't. I mean a lot of 176 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:08.639 them you see one year at the show and then 177 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.360 you never see them again. But there was just thousands 178 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.439 of these sorts of products that people put out there 179 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:15.680 and spend money on and they never really get a 180 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:17.160 foothold anywhere, right. 181 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.920 Right, And they have and I've you know, I've been 182 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:25.079 self employed for decades now and have come up with 183 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.839 a couple of goofy ideas and they've allowed me to 184 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:31.519 make a living. But I get people going, oh, I 185 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:32.919 got this idea, I got it to do this, I'm 186 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.679 going to be an entrepreneur. If you don't have the 187 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.559 support system at home. Yeah, if you can hear the 188 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.960 fingers tapping on the table or the toe tapping going Okay, 189 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:46.080 you done yet? 190 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:47.000 Right? 191 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:48.600 Do you get all right? Yeah? 192 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:50.200 That's going right. 193 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:52.399 And it took you a year and a half to 194 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.559 get a signed deal. At what point did. 195 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:55.519 You should take more than that? 196 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.399 Actually took more than that because I started this in 197 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:02.759 the fall of two thousand and three, CBS used it 198 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:05.320 on air one time in five and I didn't get 199 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:08.840 a deal with contract with Golf Channel till January of seven. 200 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.120 So we're talking more like, you know, three almost for 201 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:14.879 well really three years? 202 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:15.480 Wow? 203 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:18.519 And you know, so you're doing stuff in the middle 204 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:20.279 of the night or did you quit your job? I 205 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:21.320 mean where I was. 206 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:23.320 I was doing some other stuff also, but I was 207 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:27.879 getting more and more well, yes, I was doing other things, 208 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:30.159 but I was spending more and more time and spending 209 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:32.519 more and more money on trying to get this on TV. 210 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:34.440 And and as any. 211 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.120 Entrepreneur and entrepreneur knows, you wake up a lot of 212 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.879 mornings in a cold sweat, wondering why you're wasting your time. 213 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.159 Oh you mean you get to that means you get 214 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.879 to sleep. Yeah, most entrepreneurs are like freaked out, they 215 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:46.919 can't even fall asleep. 216 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:48.919 Well, yeah, I mean there's a lot of late nights 217 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:50.399 and then you wake up, you finally go to sleep, 218 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.320 you wake up in the morning and go, what am 219 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:53.000 I doing? 220 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:54.200 Like? What am I? 221 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:57.000 Absolutely out of my mind? And I had that many 222 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:59.320 a mornings. I woke up and just said, I'm an idiot. 223 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:01.240 I don't know why wasting time and money on this 224 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:01.840 because it's. 225 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.679 Right, But you don't admit that on right, You don't 226 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:05.799 admit that to your you know, like it's going on 227 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:07.879 in your head, but you don't tell anybody. But you've 228 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.519 got the other people in your life are going, what 229 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:11.240 are you doing? 230 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:12.639 Get on with it exactly? 231 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:14.879 Oh yeah, And I was there, and I mean most 232 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:17.200 people don't know the story, but you know, Golf Channel 233 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.519 picked up ame point in January of seven, and you know, 234 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:23.919 I told my wife in December of six, I said, 235 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:25.840 if they don't pick this up, I'm done. I'm out 236 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.200 because I had already kind of been through CBS and 237 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.960 NBC and they were really the last network. You know, 238 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.159 the problem with TV is there's only there's only really 239 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.159 three people to choose from. You have three customers, and 240 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.279 if they all say no, then you're done, you're in business. Yeah, 241 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:41.399 And I was literally within days of just giving up 242 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.000 and moving on. 243 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.919 Were you did you? Could you have really walked away 244 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:46.360 from it? Uh? 245 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:48.440 At that point? Yeah? 246 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:50.120 Well at that point, I mean I loved it, but 247 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.279 if there's no business for it, you know, you're starving death. 248 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:56.559 I had, I had children, and it was just there 249 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:00.000 was if I couldn't prove a legitimate business, it was 250 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.039 time to move on like it or not. Whow So 251 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:06.799 it was came down to really really a couple of 252 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:10.039 days and around Christmas of six where and Golf Channel 253 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:11.919 didn't say, hey, great, we know, we'll do this three 254 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.080 year deal. They said, we'll do it one tournament and 255 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.320 if it works, then we'll talk about moving on. So 256 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.919 you know, that first Mercedes Tournament oh seven was extremely stressful. 257 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:23.879 Went off. 258 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.480 You know, we got everything working. Then they did one 259 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:27.519 more than they didn't one more. There was never a 260 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:29.720 floodgate where they said, oh, okay, it's great, we'll sign you 261 00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:33.120 for three years. It was just one after another chipping 262 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.000 away and then eventually you know, you wake up one 263 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:36.519 day and you've been on for six years. 264 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:37.399 Wow. 265 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:39.320 So you never got a full deal out of it. 266 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:41.639 Well, I eventually did, but not after the first year. 267 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.519 So the first year, I think we did seven tournaments, 268 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:46.879 and then the second year we did twelve, and the 269 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.960 third year we did twenty, And eventually I did get 270 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.200 a deal. But they only run year to year sure, 271 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.039 so at the end of every year they can renew 272 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.399 or not renew. But in the beginning, in the first year, 273 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.159 they had the sign a sponsor, they had to prove 274 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.840 it worked, they had to get buy in, they had 275 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:05.120 to do all these things, and that's just you know, 276 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:07.440 that's not easy to do with a new technology, especially 277 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:09.440 one that people, you know, a lot of people don't 278 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.360 believe it could possibly work. 279 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:14.240 Yeah, no, I was. I actually I actually had the 280 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:20.720 same experience that an idea that I had developed. Budweiser 281 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:25.879 ended up sponsoring this idea and distributing it out. But 282 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.639 every January first, I had no idea if it was 283 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:33.440 going to happen again, and I got and I was, 284 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:35.320 and I was hoping to get three years out of 285 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.200 the Budwiser thing. It ended up getting eleven, which was amazing, 286 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.720 but you just you just every year, I think, and 287 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.240 then it progressed into other venues and I started working 288 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:50.519 with the NFL and things like that, and every January 289 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:52.440 first I had no idea how much money I was 290 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:53.159 going to make that year. 291 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:53.879 Oh I know. 292 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.639 That's that's the downside of being running your own businesses. 293 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:58.440 Of course, all the freedom in the world, but you 294 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.159 have very little security, right. 295 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.519 And people think you get to work for yourself. Ha 296 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:02.879 ha ha. 297 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:05.600 You're always working for somebody probably right. 298 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.639 Yeah, You're always working for some. 299 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.799 Somebody else is always writ in the check at the 300 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:09.240 end of the day. 301 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.440 Yeah, it's right. Bob Dylan said, you got to serve somebody, 302 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:20.879 and it's right. Oh man. So were they with each 303 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:24.120 each tournament they were doing. Are they paying a rights fee? 304 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:25.200 They paying licensing? 305 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:25.519 Well? 306 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:26.360 How are they? 307 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:27.159 Yeah? 308 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.919 And are you getting money that's going? Okay, this could work? 309 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.440 Ors like, here's a buck fifty, Thank you very much, 310 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:33.080 see you later. 311 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:35.960 The amount of time and money that I put into 312 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.919 it in the first two or three years, I think 313 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.600 I did six on site demos for the networks, and 314 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.679 every time I showed up on site. You know, I'm 315 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:47.440 paying my own expenses, my own travel, it's operational expenses involved, 316 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:48.240 you know, none of that. 317 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.039 They don't reimburse you. For any of that. 318 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.360 So they you know, they started to pay on a 319 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:55.960 per tournament basis the first year, but I mean I 320 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:00.919 didn't break even until probably into the third year. Wow, 321 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.200 you know, I mean, I mean, you know, the first 322 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.840 couple of years I definitely operated a loss and just 323 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:07.000 trying to recoop that. 324 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:08.320 You know, what I had put into it. 325 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:12.320 Between patents and legal fees and operational expenses. I mean 326 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.799 all those things. You know, if you until you have 327 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.080 a revenue coming in, those are just stacking up on 328 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:17.759 top of each other. 329 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:18.159 Yeah. 330 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.840 Yeah, and your wife was being supportive. 331 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:26.919 Yeah, she was shockingly supportive. She was probably more supportive 332 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:28.399 back then because I was I was at home a 333 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.480 lot more than I am now, and now I travel 334 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:31.879 so much it gets a little more difficult. 335 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:34.519 Oh so all right, Well, since you're home, go pick 336 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:36.159 up the kids and while you're there, go to the 337 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:40.159 market where you have to do a lot of like no, no, 338 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.200 I'm working today, Yeah, no, No, you gotta go run 339 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:42.720 some chores. 340 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:44.919 Oh yeah, I mean it's great working at home, but 341 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:46.840 you have to learn that. You have to learn little 342 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.399 keys like when the office door shut, nobody comes through it. 343 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:50.879 Period. 344 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:52.879 Yeah, but you still have to go put the wash 345 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:57.679 on the dryer. Yes, yes, okay, I've been there. 346 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:00.600 What in there? 347 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.480 So the whole thought for you was this is going 348 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:10.559 to be great on TV. 349 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.840 Well that was my second thought. Actually, really my first 350 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:15.360 thought was that. 351 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:17.960 Was your marketing thought. That was the thought that's like, okay, oh, 352 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:19.559 now I can sell it to somebody. 353 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:22.399 Well that was that was actually the rich The original 354 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.120 thought was I was going to create the software and 355 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.759 put it on a handheld. Now, the problem was, in 356 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.840 two thousand and three, handhelds were Palm pilots with no 357 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.159 Internet connectivity, no cell connectivity. 358 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:34.679 This was a standalone unit. 359 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.519 Yeah, this was well the mobile yeah, the mobile world. 360 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.440 Yeah yeah, yeah. 361 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.639 So I so I actually didn't appen three and put 362 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.679 it on a Palm pilot and went out and tested it. 363 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.159 And the problem was you couldn't see the screen in 364 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.159 the daylight. They weren't these sunlight you know, sunlight readable 365 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:54.039 TFT screens. You'd take it on the bright sun and 366 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:56.240 it just blanked out on you. And so it was 367 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.279 just the equipment wasn't ready for that. 368 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.919 Yeah, you were ahead of that. Technology was way. 369 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.039 Ahead of the curve on that. And so I said, well, 370 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.200 that's not gonna that's not gonna work right now? What 371 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:06.840 could I do? And I was talking to again my 372 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.360 head pro at the time, and he goes, oh, you 373 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.759 should just take it to TV. And at the time 374 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.919 I was like, yeah, maybe, you know, we'll give it 375 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:13.200 a shot. 376 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:13.559 Why not. 377 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:17.960 And TV showed a lot of interest, CBS showed a 378 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:20.360 lot of interest very early on, which you know, kind 379 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.639 of got me excited about it. But then to actually 380 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.000 make it happen just seemed like it took forever. 381 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:26.480 Mm hmmmm hm. 382 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.679 And and with a palm pilot, plus there's no camera 383 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.279 on that or do you need that? I mean, what 384 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.960 is it? So what is the software that that you wrote? 385 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:37.559 What does it do? 386 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:38.559 Well? 387 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:40.960 That original one, what it did is it would actually 388 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.159 load the laser scans of the grip of the course 389 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:46.000 you were playing, So we would go out and laser 390 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:48.159 scan the golf greens and get three D maps of it. 391 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.440 And all you do is say, here's my ball and 392 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:52.000 here's the hole, and it would tell you what the 393 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.840 break was. So that was the original idea. There's a 394 00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:00.279 lot of operational difficulties with that as simple as there's 395 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:02.120 the whole and the problem is you can take a 396 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.079 pin and move it three feet and get a totally 397 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:08.000 different break good efficient way to know exactly where the 398 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:08.480 pin was. 399 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:10.359 You know. 400 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.000 So there's a lot of things that just made it difficult. 401 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:16.200