WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.919
<v Speaker 1>Ether is not a younger brother of Bitcoin. For a

2
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of its history they've traded in tandem. But I

3
00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.560
<v Speaker 1>think ethereum has an intrinsic value given the tailwinds. It's programmable.

4
00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:14.839
<v Speaker 1>The future of finance is going to be written on ethereum,

5
00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:16.719
<v Speaker 1>not Bitcoin. So I do think we need to start

6
00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:20.120
<v Speaker 1>thinking of these things as decoupling. Each one should stand

7
00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:22.600
<v Speaker 1>on the merits of the utility and the value they provide.

8
00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:25.399
<v Speaker 1>But the idea of throwing out price points of what's

9
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:27.239
<v Speaker 1>going to happen, you're just going to be wrong and

10
00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:28.440
<v Speaker 1>let people down.

11
00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.520
<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by I Trust Capital.

12
00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.840
<v Speaker 2>I Trust Capital gives you a great alternative for buying, selling,

13
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.039
<v Speaker 2>and custoding your crypto assets. They allow you to set

14
00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.880
<v Speaker 2>up a self directed IRA, which gives you huge tax advantages.

15
00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:49.840
<v Speaker 2>You can even roll over your four oh one K

16
00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:53.240
<v Speaker 2>to this platform. And they not only offer a crypto,

17
00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.759
<v Speaker 2>they also offer gold and silver and as mentioned, the

18
00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:01.920
<v Speaker 2>custody gives you another very safe alternative. So many of

19
00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:04.519
<v Speaker 2>you know about self custody. That's a great option, but

20
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:07.840
<v Speaker 2>you can also use I Trust Capitals Premium Custody Accounts

21
00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.439
<v Speaker 2>also known as PCA, so with the rise of crypto

22
00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.079
<v Speaker 2>scams and phishing attacks, a lot of retail investors are

23
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.719
<v Speaker 2>losing their shirts. I mean, let's be honest, right, it

24
00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:20.719
<v Speaker 2>sucks to hear that exchanges are getting hacked. Well, I

25
00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Trust Capital does things a bit different here. They use

26
00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Ford Bank as they're qualified custudents, so they're actually using

27
00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.439
<v Speaker 2>a bank here, and they have partnerships with coinbased Prime

28
00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Fidelity and Fireblocks. They are fully US based and their

29
00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.239
<v Speaker 2>client experienced team offers direct phone support, so not many

30
00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.200
<v Speaker 2>platforms offer this. This is very unique to I Trust

31
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.519
<v Speaker 2>Capital and folks, most recently we heard from President Trump

32
00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:48.400
<v Speaker 2>that the United States is looking to unlock for one

33
00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.400
<v Speaker 2>case to be able to participate in crypto. Well, you

34
00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.879
<v Speaker 2>can get ahead of the curve by using I Trust

35
00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Capital and getting started in that process. And folks, I'm

36
00:01:57.560 --> 00:01:59.599
<v Speaker 2>a user of the platform. I have an account with them.

37
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.359
<v Speaker 2>You sign up with my link which is I Trustcapital

38
00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:05.680
<v Speaker 2>dot com slash Thinking Crypto, you can get an exclusive

39
00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:09.599
<v Speaker 2>one hundred dollars funding bonus, so go learn about this great,

40
00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:14.520
<v Speaker 2>safe and awesome way to buy, sell and custodyr Crypto

41
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:18.120
<v Speaker 2>a great alternative once again with tax advantages and a

42
00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:22.159
<v Speaker 2>lot of safety, very safe compared to many exchanges, and

43
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.159
<v Speaker 2>all the links will be in a description. Check it out. Hi, everyone,

44
00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:28.520
<v Speaker 2>welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward,

45
00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:30.879
<v Speaker 2>and we are recording at Station three in New York's

46
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Financial District. And joining me today is Joseph Shalom, who

47
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:35.599
<v Speaker 2>is the CEO of Sharplink.

48
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Now.

49
00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Sharplink is the institutional grade etherorem treasury platform for smarter,

50
00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:45.000
<v Speaker 2>more productive access to eth. Joseph is also the former

51
00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Managing Director and Head of Strategic Ecosystem Partnerships at Blackrock.

52
00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:53.960
<v Speaker 2>He was instrumental in driving the firm's global strategy across

53
00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:59.199
<v Speaker 2>digital assets, fintech innovation, and blockchain infrastructure. Joseph, great to

54
00:02:59.240 --> 00:02:59.520
<v Speaker 2>have you.

55
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:01.479
<v Speaker 1>Really happy to be here, Tony.

56
00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:04.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Joseph, you have a plethora of knowledge in the market,

57
00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.159
<v Speaker 2>so I'm really excited to dive into crypto as well

58
00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:10.919
<v Speaker 2>as what's happening in the broader markets. I would love

59
00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:13.479
<v Speaker 2>to start with your background. Tell us about where you're from.

60
00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:15.439
<v Speaker 2>How'd you make a way into finance and end up

61
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:16.080
<v Speaker 2>at black Rock?

62
00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:19.879
<v Speaker 1>Sure, I grew up in the DC area. Actually pretty grateful,

63
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.319
<v Speaker 1>have amazing parents, child of immigrants. Education was a big deal.

64
00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:26.919
<v Speaker 1>I went to law school, I moved to New York,

65
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.360
<v Speaker 1>fell in love with the city, went to Columbia, and

66
00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.039
<v Speaker 1>after graduating, thought I would go right into business or

67
00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:38.759
<v Speaker 1>finance or diplomacy, And I actually practiced venture and technology

68
00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.599
<v Speaker 1>law in what today younger people would call web one.

69
00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Learned tremendous lessons business models colliding, I saw innovation, I

70
00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.199
<v Speaker 1>saw fraud, And after doing that for a number of years,

71
00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:55.039
<v Speaker 1>getting married, paying off my debt, I got recruited to

72
00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:58.800
<v Speaker 1>go to Blackrock, and that was in early two thousand

73
00:03:58.840 --> 00:03:59.319
<v Speaker 1>and five.

74
00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:00.400
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

75
00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Did you always think you would want to work in

76
00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:05.639
<v Speaker 2>finance or was just kind of something that pulled you

77
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:07.319
<v Speaker 2>in and you got interested in it.

78
00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:09.439
<v Speaker 1>Actually I wanted to go to the Foreign Service, but

79
00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.680
<v Speaker 1>when I graduated from undergrad it was like a year

80
00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.240
<v Speaker 1>and a half wait to take the Foreign Service exam.

81
00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.199
<v Speaker 1>So I went to law school. And I would tell

82
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:22.920
<v Speaker 1>you studying law was great for both broadening and deepening

83
00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.680
<v Speaker 1>your mindset, and it actually let you focus on problems

84
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.879
<v Speaker 1>without having to be an expert in any area. And

85
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.360
<v Speaker 1>practicing technology law. You know, during the Internet Boom and

86
00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Bust were some of the greatest lessons of my work experience.

87
00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:42.319
<v Speaker 1>And I joined Blackrock when Blackrock was a very small,

88
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:47.360
<v Speaker 1>not well known, institutional only fixed income US asset manager.

89
00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.519
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't the fourteen trillion dollar trusted fiduciary that it

90
00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.360
<v Speaker 1>is today. And I joined a business unit that was

91
00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:59.079
<v Speaker 1>basically building a fintech platform, a SaaS platform called Aladdin

92
00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.199
<v Speaker 1>and spent about twelve years helping scale that business as

93
00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the chief operating officer. And it was some of the

94
00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:11.959
<v Speaker 1>most foundational positive experiences working with brilliant people who knew

95
00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.720
<v Speaker 1>technology and the markets, and those three things don't always

96
00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:15.199
<v Speaker 1>go together.

97
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:18.959
<v Speaker 2>That's incredible. So you played a key role in helping

98
00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.079
<v Speaker 2>Blackrock become the world's largest asset manager.

99
00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:25.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, no, I would. I would say that I

100
00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:30.079
<v Speaker 1>played a role with incredible tea people, and for most

101
00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:32.120
<v Speaker 1>of my career I was kind of a number two,

102
00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:36.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, always supporting, you know, the heads of businesses,

103
00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:39.759
<v Speaker 1>and you know, when we transition to talk about sharplink,

104
00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:41.879
<v Speaker 1>one of the fun things in your career is going

105
00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.680
<v Speaker 1>from a number two to a number one. But the

106
00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:46.879
<v Speaker 1>beautiful thing about Blackrock is if you do the right

107
00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.839
<v Speaker 1>thing and you learn the business, you can gain the

108
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.800
<v Speaker 1>hardest currency and to achieve which is also the easiest

109
00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.720
<v Speaker 1>one to lose, which is trust. And the foundation of

110
00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.160
<v Speaker 1>my whole career was building trust and solving hard problems.

111
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.560
<v Speaker 1>And I'm super grateful for the twenty years I spent there.

112
00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Where along the journey at Blackrock, did you discover blockchain crypto?

113
00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.480
<v Speaker 2>And maybe it's also in line with the CEO Larry Fink,

114
00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.360
<v Speaker 2>where at one point he was in type crypto or

115
00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.920
<v Speaker 2>bitcoin and now obviously things have changed. But where was

116
00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:21.240
<v Speaker 2>that aha moment for you?

117
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.560
<v Speaker 1>So I had a bunch of roles at Blackrock in

118
00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:26.839
<v Speaker 1>the wealth space. I spent a year as the deputy

119
00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.040
<v Speaker 1>COO of the firm, and in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen,

120
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.000
<v Speaker 1>I took a role basically running partnerships and a bunch

121
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:39.079
<v Speaker 1>of ecosystems, some boring ecosystems, some innovative ecosystems, but one

122
00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:44.360
<v Speaker 1>of them was inheriting a one person blockchain team. Actually,

123
00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.439
<v Speaker 1>when you do a shout out, it's a wonderful Canadian

124
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:52.160
<v Speaker 1>guy named Robbie Mitchnick who's actually currently running digital assets

125
00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.759
<v Speaker 1>at Blackrock, and he taught me everything I needed to

126
00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.560
<v Speaker 1>know about blockchain and crypto. I would say, we took

127
00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:03.319
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years to figure out what the role

128
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.759
<v Speaker 1>of a trusted fiduciary asset manager could be, Like I

129
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.360
<v Speaker 1>don't like using the word tradfi, but what a large

130
00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.800
<v Speaker 1>financial player could do to play a positive role for

131
00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.839
<v Speaker 1>our clients. And we spent almost two years twenty nineteen

132
00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:22.519
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty doing over a couple hundred meetings with the ecosystem.

133
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:26.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's incredible to go from a one person team

134
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.879
<v Speaker 2>to what Blackrock is doing now with tokenization. ETF's the

135
00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:33.480
<v Speaker 2>most successful ETF and history of ets which is incredible.

136
00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but we did it the right way. There's a

137
00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.759
<v Speaker 1>misnomer or a myth in the industry that when you

138
00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:44.560
<v Speaker 1>build financial products, you create demand. In fact, we built

139
00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.480
<v Speaker 1>the products because their word demand, and so the idea

140
00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:51.040
<v Speaker 1>of listening to clients learning that some of the largest

141
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:55.319
<v Speaker 1>wealth managers and individuals and institutions actually wanted exposure to

142
00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.759
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin and ether not much more. They just couldn't own

143
00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:02.480
<v Speaker 1>spot and so for almost two to three years they

144
00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:06.800
<v Speaker 1>had been pouring billions of dollars to get crypto exposure

145
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:12.000
<v Speaker 1>through a proxy investment, which was Crypto VC, because they

146
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.439
<v Speaker 1>could invest in venture capital and they did that and

147
00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:20.639
<v Speaker 1>they created a massive supply of capital into the ecosystem

148
00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:24.879
<v Speaker 1>in twenty eighteen, nineteen, and twenty and it turns out

149
00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:27.839
<v Speaker 1>that that was a good strategy, but it underperformed bitcoin

150
00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:31.800
<v Speaker 1>and ether, and eventually we worked with our regulators along

151
00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:34.679
<v Speaker 1>with eleven other issuers to be in the position to

152
00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:38.919
<v Speaker 1>launch a Bitcoin ETF and an ETHTF in January and

153
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:42.639
<v Speaker 1>July of twenty twenty four. But the misunderstanding was like

154
00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Blackrock built the products and the clients came. The clients

155
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:48.799
<v Speaker 1>were there was just great product market fit.

156
00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:51.679
<v Speaker 2>So in addition to the et apps, the demand for

157
00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:55.039
<v Speaker 2>the ETFs and access to bitcoin and ether, was there

158
00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.600
<v Speaker 2>also demand for tokenized products or that was something black

159
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Rock that pioneering to maybe let the consumer know, hey,

160
00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.159
<v Speaker 2>there's an alternate option that could give you more benefits. Yeah.

161
00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I think when we set a strategy in twenty twenty

162
00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.360
<v Speaker 1>one on what could be the benevolent role of an

163
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:17.120
<v Speaker 1>influential trusted asset manager, it was really around three pillars.

164
00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:21.960
<v Speaker 1>The idea that stable coins, you know, essentially tokenized versions

165
00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.159
<v Speaker 1>of dollars on chain, We're going to change how value

166
00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.399
<v Speaker 1>is moved, and we partnered with Circle. We managed their

167
00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:33.159
<v Speaker 1>treasury reserve of USDC and that was a great learning experience,

168
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.360
<v Speaker 1>and it also taught me that partnerships are win win

169
00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:40.919
<v Speaker 1>and they could endure through cycles. The second was crypto exposure.

170
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:45.080
<v Speaker 1>We connected the black Rock fintech platform to coinbase so

171
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:49.120
<v Speaker 1>clients could invest in bitcoin and ether alongside their other

172
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:52.120
<v Speaker 1>portfolio investments. They weren't going to do it in some

173
00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:56.320
<v Speaker 1>web three smart wallet. In DeFi, we launched ETFs to

174
00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:59.679
<v Speaker 1>give them that exposure. And the third pillar was tokenization.

175
00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.399
<v Speaker 1>And you had mentioned Larry Fink. I've never been a

176
00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.399
<v Speaker 1>spokesman for Larry. I'm not a spokesman for Larry, but

177
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.399
<v Speaker 1>he really evolved as thinking on bitcoin. And I give

178
00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:12.960
<v Speaker 1>him a lot of credit because there's very few people

179
00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.840
<v Speaker 1>in their sixties or seventies who have the humility to

180
00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:18.720
<v Speaker 1>continue to be a student of the market and a

181
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.480
<v Speaker 1>student of technology, and he learned that it's an incredible

182
00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.799
<v Speaker 1>store of value and it has a role in a portfolio.

183
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:29.159
<v Speaker 1>I think Blackrock and others believe even more strongly that

184
00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:34.840
<v Speaker 1>tokenization is going to essentially be the democratization and digitization

185
00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:38.039
<v Speaker 1>of all of finance. Crypto is a two point four

186
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:43.679
<v Speaker 1>trillion dollar market total financial assets are over seven hundred trillion,

187
00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:46.440
<v Speaker 1>So I think our clients wanted to know where we

188
00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.080
<v Speaker 1>were going, and we led them along, and we launched

189
00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:52.879
<v Speaker 1>a token called Biddle, which was a yield bearing security

190
00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:57.279
<v Speaker 1>on mayet ethereum that was interchangeable twenty four to seven

191
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.559
<v Speaker 1>with stable coins and can be used as collateral in

192
00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:06.759
<v Speaker 1>on chain transactions. That became the largest tokenized fund in history,

193
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.919
<v Speaker 1>not because it was Blackrock. It's because we provided real

194
00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:15.159
<v Speaker 1>utility and the industry was missing real examples and use

195
00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.399
<v Speaker 1>cases of utility, and we wanted our first foray intertokenization

196
00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:23.440
<v Speaker 1>to be something that would break barriers and give clients

197
00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.399
<v Speaker 1>more utility than what they had today, which was stable

198
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:27.519
<v Speaker 1>coin's not earning yield.

199
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.159
<v Speaker 2>Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of

200
00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.639
<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if

201
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:36.080
<v Speaker 2>you can please support the podcast by hitting the like

202
00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:38.639
<v Speaker 2>button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, you can leave

203
00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:40.799
<v Speaker 2>a comment below as well. And if you're listening on

204
00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.879
<v Speaker 2>a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple or wherever you

205
00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.879
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit

206
00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:49.000
<v Speaker 2>the five star rating. I'll let you get back to

207
00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:50.559
<v Speaker 2>the content. Thank you so much.

208
00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:54.159
<v Speaker 3>So you've seen Web one, Web two, and worry in

209
00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.000
<v Speaker 3>what many would call Web three. So is this the

210
00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:02.000
<v Speaker 3>natural order progression where with the Internet you're building layers

211
00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.159
<v Speaker 3>on top of it, and blockchain is one layer and

212
00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:08.840
<v Speaker 3>you're tokenizing assets on there. So ten years from now, Joseph,

213
00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:12.000
<v Speaker 3>are we seeing all assets tokenize on blockchain?

214
00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.919
<v Speaker 1>I think the answer is yes. And I'm a futurist.

215
00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:19.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm a believer that certain things can never be reversed,

216
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:23.039
<v Speaker 1>and technological progress is one of them. You know, when

217
00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:26.399
<v Speaker 1>you're used to trading Monday through Friday nine thirty am

218
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.840
<v Speaker 1>to four pm, and you know in Asia, if you

219
00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.559
<v Speaker 1>sell something on a Friday, you don't get your cash

220
00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:36.480
<v Speaker 1>until Tuesday evening on T plus two settlement. Once people

221
00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.200
<v Speaker 1>have an ability to trade twenty four to seven in

222
00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.600
<v Speaker 1>a programmable way with instant settlement. And I'll use a

223
00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:47.799
<v Speaker 1>word that's misunderstood, which is composability. The idea that today

224
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.279
<v Speaker 1>if you own a physical version of gold, or if

225
00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:55.639
<v Speaker 1>you own a stock custodied at a big bank, there's

226
00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:57.320
<v Speaker 1>not much you can do with it. You own it

227
00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.360
<v Speaker 1>in digital format, you can lend it, you could bit

228
00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:04.799
<v Speaker 1>you could you know, earn yield by providing it to

229
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:08.279
<v Speaker 1>hedge funds and others, or stable coins. You know, you

230
00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.519
<v Speaker 1>own a stable coin, you hopefully can start earning some yield.

231
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.559
<v Speaker 1>You can't when you deposit into a checking account. So

232
00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:17.639
<v Speaker 1>I do believe everything will be tokenized. I think it'll

233
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:19.679
<v Speaker 1>happen by as a class, and I think it'll happen

234
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:21.279
<v Speaker 1>in step functions.

235
00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.120
<v Speaker 2>This question applies to both black rock as well as sharplink.

236
00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Why Ethereum, why not another smart contract platform?

237
00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Sure? I think there are two things that we need

238
00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.799
<v Speaker 1>to tip our hat to. One was Bitcoin, the first

239
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:44.120
<v Speaker 1>fully decentralized network that was based on cryptographic proofs. In

240
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>that case proof of work, very energy inefficient. But it

241
00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.960
<v Speaker 1>led to this idea that why not have a version

242
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.840
<v Speaker 1>of a programmable decentralized network that was programmable. You know,

243
00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:59.720
<v Speaker 1>I've said that twice, but truly programmable. And you know,

244
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:04.519
<v Speaker 1>when Italic and others got together to write the Ethereum

245
00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:08.080
<v Speaker 1>white paper, it was really important. They spent a decade

246
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:15.440
<v Speaker 1>building the underlying foundation for decentralized, trusted, programmable infrastructure. And

247
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.759
<v Speaker 1>I feel very strongly that there are many trying to imitate,

248
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.480
<v Speaker 1>but there is not a blockchain that has ten years.

249
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.279
<v Speaker 1>In this case, Ethereum has been up since July of

250
00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:34.279
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen, zero downtime, truly decentralized, a million plus validators,

251
00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:38.639
<v Speaker 1>tens and tens of thousands of developers, you know, clients

252
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.399
<v Speaker 1>across eighty countries, and it's never gone down. And I'll

253
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.559
<v Speaker 1>tell you one thing. I don't know a lot, but

254
00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:49.639
<v Speaker 1>from my twenty years of experience at Blackrock, I know something.

255
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.279
<v Speaker 1>With Surety, which is the largest institutions in the world,

256
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.399
<v Speaker 1>when they're going to choose a new platform to digitize

257
00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:00.120
<v Speaker 1>financial markets, it's going to happen on one that's the

258
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:04.200
<v Speaker 1>most trusted, the most secure, and has the most liquidity.

259
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.639
<v Speaker 1>And Ethereum has those qualities. And I'm not saying that

260
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:10.879
<v Speaker 1>as a spokesman for Sharplink or a spokesman for Ethereum.

261
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.399
<v Speaker 1>These are facts. And if you look at stable coins,

262
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.159
<v Speaker 1>of the three hundred eight billion dollars of stable coin,

263
00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.919
<v Speaker 1>sixty five percent is on Ethereum, and tokenized assets are dominated,

264
00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.519
<v Speaker 1>not because Ethereum is the greatest marketing organization. It's just trusted.

265
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:30.679
<v Speaker 2>So on that note, as you mentioned, is not the

266
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:34.639
<v Speaker 2>greatest marketing organization. I'm curious how institutions are viewing etherorem

267
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.720
<v Speaker 2>because there's this paradigm shift, Joseph. For the first time

268
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.639
<v Speaker 2>you have a network where you can hold or have

269
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.519
<v Speaker 2>how should I say, a financial incentive to hold a

270
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.799
<v Speaker 2>native token but also be a participant on a networks.

271
00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.440
<v Speaker 2>It's unlike you know, I think a lot of people say,

272
00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:53.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, you talk about bitcoin and other networks, Well,

273
00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:55.840
<v Speaker 2>where's the cash blow, where's the right? They think about

274
00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.159
<v Speaker 2>it from a business standpoint, but they're not thinking from

275
00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:00.919
<v Speaker 2>a network standpoint. So how are intitutions looking at it

276
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.440
<v Speaker 2>as an investment, a building opportunity, that type of thing.

277
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.559
<v Speaker 1>So I think the first I told you we tip

278
00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:10.600
<v Speaker 1>our hat to bitcoin, you know, laying the foundation for

279
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.519
<v Speaker 1>another cryptographic decentralized network like ethereum. The second actually is

280
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.799
<v Speaker 1>to Michael Sailor at Strategy, who had this idea that

281
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.519
<v Speaker 1>you can give people exposure to an asset, in this

282
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.399
<v Speaker 1>case Bitcoin through a public company wrapper at Sharplink.

283
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:27.399
<v Speaker 2>We do that for Ether.

284
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I think the fundamental difference between Bitcoin and ether there

285
00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:36.799
<v Speaker 1>are two. Ethereum is programmable and ether is a natively

286
00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:41.159
<v Speaker 1>productive asset Because for your viewers, ethereum is a proof

287
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:44.919
<v Speaker 1>of steak network. You need to own Ether. You stake

288
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.799
<v Speaker 1>it to record immutable transactions on the network, and by

289
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.279
<v Speaker 1>staking your Ether, if you do it the right way,

290
00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.320
<v Speaker 1>you can earn an Ethereum staking rate. Today it's around

291
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.440
<v Speaker 1>two point seventy five percent. So this idea that you

292
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.399
<v Speaker 1>can own ether, you can make it productive by securing

293
00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:07.279
<v Speaker 1>the network, and in return you get a yield. And

294
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.920
<v Speaker 1>that's why I think Ethereum is a better network and

295
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Ether is a better treasury asset because it's natively productive.

296
00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one of my questions for you was, how are

297
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:22.119
<v Speaker 2>you navigating this bear market, Joseph, because it's rough, right

298
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:25.680
<v Speaker 2>as we all market downturns, but it sounds like with Ether,

299
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.000
<v Speaker 2>regardless of bull or bear, there's that native stake and

300
00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.279
<v Speaker 2>rewards built in, plus you can do DeFi So talk

301
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.960
<v Speaker 2>to us a bit about the revenue sources for Sharplink

302
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:35.839
<v Speaker 2>in this downturn.

303
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Sure, even just taking a step back, if it's okay.

304
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:43.519
<v Speaker 1>Sharplink is an Ethereum digital asset treasury company. We raised

305
00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.920
<v Speaker 1>over three billion dollars in twenty twenty five in common stock,

306
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.920
<v Speaker 1>so we have zero debt and we use that to

307
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:55.000
<v Speaker 1>buy Ether and we take that ether, and from day

308
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:59.480
<v Speaker 1>one we've been staking nearly one hundred percent. So you

309
00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.039
<v Speaker 1>stake it, you make your ether productive, You get a

310
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.640
<v Speaker 1>yield that shows up as revenue on our balance sheet

311
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:10.039
<v Speaker 1>for our investors, and we take the returns on our

312
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.839
<v Speaker 1>staked eth and we've just put it back and we

313
00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.720
<v Speaker 1>grow our eth pile, our eth reserve. We've earned over

314
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:22.599
<v Speaker 1>fourteen thousand ether tokens since our inception, So that's number one.

315
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:28.000
<v Speaker 1>The second characteristic about why we will survive and thrive

316
00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:31.559
<v Speaker 1>in both up markets and down markets is we own

317
00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.960
<v Speaker 1>something on behalf of our investors that doesn't exist in crypto, Tony,

318
00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:40.319
<v Speaker 1>you're ready for this. It's permanent capital. So the idea

319
00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.319
<v Speaker 1>that when you're running a fund, including the funds that

320
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:46.799
<v Speaker 1>we launched at black Rock, it's not permanent capital. Investors

321
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.039
<v Speaker 1>have an ability to take out there. They can redeem

322
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:54.000
<v Speaker 1>shares in the ETF and in return, you're selling your

323
00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:57.000
<v Speaker 1>eth or bitcoin or whatever the native asset is. If

324
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.480
<v Speaker 1>you own permanent capital and a treasury and you don't

325
00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.960
<v Speaker 1>have to worry about the price going up for a

326
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.440
<v Speaker 1>period the price going down for a period, you can

327
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.960
<v Speaker 1>actually do amazing things to make your token productive. That

328
00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:13.920
<v Speaker 1>fund structures can't, and I'd love to share a few examples.

329
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.119
<v Speaker 1>But while the price when the price of eth goes up,

330
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:20.000
<v Speaker 1>our stock goes up. When the price of eth goes down,

331
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.640
<v Speaker 1>our stock goes down. But we do the same thing

332
00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.680
<v Speaker 1>every day. We make our eth productive, but we're able

333
00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:29.559
<v Speaker 1>to put it back into the ethereum ecosystem for multiple

334
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:33.200
<v Speaker 1>years because we don't have to sell our eth. We've

335
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.000
<v Speaker 1>never encumbered it. We're not a fund.

336
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Very interesting. I have not heard of that concept of

337
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:42.480
<v Speaker 2>permanent capital. So is anyone else doing it? Or is

338
00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:43.680
<v Speaker 2>that unique? Too sharp link?

339
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:47.640
<v Speaker 1>So, I think there are several other eth debts. Some

340
00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.279
<v Speaker 1>are staking their eth, some aren't. Some have encumbered their

341
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:55.440
<v Speaker 1>eth or have taken out debt or preferred equity, and

342
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.200
<v Speaker 1>some of the other dats actually have been forced to

343
00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.559
<v Speaker 1>sell their eth. There's a few of us who I

344
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.799
<v Speaker 1>think are organized the right way, and we can make

345
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.119
<v Speaker 1>our eth natively productive by staking it. But I think

346
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.000
<v Speaker 1>staking your eth is step one of generating yield. We've

347
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.279
<v Speaker 1>done other things that are really good for the theory

348
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.039
<v Speaker 1>and ecosystem. I'd love to share what those are.

349
00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, please if you can.

350
00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Sure. So when I said that crypto is usually filled

351
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.839
<v Speaker 1>with short term interest in capital. That's very different than

352
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.759
<v Speaker 1>traditional finance. You do have short term speculators and buyers,

353
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:32.960
<v Speaker 1>but in traditional finance you have people who take their

354
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:35.640
<v Speaker 1>capital and they deploy it for multi year periods. So

355
00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.160
<v Speaker 1>let me give you a great example. In any other

356
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:43.279
<v Speaker 1>market other than crypto, there's something called term structure, you

357
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:47.000
<v Speaker 1>get rewarded by deploying your You get more rewards by

358
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.799
<v Speaker 1>deploying your capital for longer periods. In crypto, that really

359
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.480
<v Speaker 1>doesn't exist. So I'll give you a great example of

360
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.480
<v Speaker 1>a partnership we struck this year. So if you own

361
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.039
<v Speaker 1>billions of dollars of ETH, you can view it as

362
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.039
<v Speaker 1>a portfolio and you could take portions of that and

363
00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.519
<v Speaker 1>deployed in more than simple staking. So I only give

364
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:10.000
<v Speaker 1>you one great use case or case study. We partnered

365
00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.400
<v Speaker 1>with Consensus, which is the largest ethereum go to market

366
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.200
<v Speaker 1>company run by Joe Lubin. We partnered with their layer

367
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:23.680
<v Speaker 1>two ZKVM blockchain called LINEA, two blue chip DeFi organizations,

368
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:28.200
<v Speaker 1>ether Fi and Eigencloud to essentially build a liquid restaking token.

369
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:33.279
<v Speaker 1>We deployed two hundred million dollars into that solution. You

370
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.200
<v Speaker 1>get a restaking rate, and then because we were willing

371
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.519
<v Speaker 1>to commit our capital to these protocols for multiple years,

372
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.960
<v Speaker 1>they were willing to give us incentives ether denominated incentives

373
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.119
<v Speaker 1>on top of our yield. So the idea that you

374
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.839
<v Speaker 1>could start getting DeFi level yields as an institution was

375
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:58.599
<v Speaker 1>really interesting, but without taking more risk. These are incentives

376
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.759
<v Speaker 1>that will last for our deployment. And if you think

377
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.799
<v Speaker 1>that's not enough, you know, pushing the fission frontier to

378
00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:08.759
<v Speaker 1>get additional yield for investors. Very often when you go

379
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:11.640
<v Speaker 1>out into DeFi, you're in a web three wallet, you're

380
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.279
<v Speaker 1>taking all sorts of DeFi risks. We did something that

381
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.319
<v Speaker 1>had never been done in a public company context is

382
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:21.680
<v Speaker 1>we worked with Anchorage Digital, one of our two custodians,

383
00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:26.599
<v Speaker 1>to host this liquid restaking solution in their qualified custodian.

384
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.440
<v Speaker 1>So here what I just said, get a restaking rate

385
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.839
<v Speaker 1>for your investors, get economic incentives on top of that.

386
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.079
<v Speaker 1>Because you're committing your capital, and if you're able to

387
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.799
<v Speaker 1>do it in a qualified custodian, you're actually reducing your

388
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:45.240
<v Speaker 1>operational risk, which in crypto is ops alpha.

389
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.640
<v Speaker 2>So this idea, if.

390
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:49.640
<v Speaker 1>You have permanent capital, you can go along the ficient

391
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.519
<v Speaker 1>frontier and generate higher yields for your investors than you

392
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.680
<v Speaker 1>could if you were a retail alone or if you

393
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.400
<v Speaker 1>were just an ETF and a fun structure, and doing

394
00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:02.640
<v Speaker 1>these kinds of things are super fun. You're breaking barriers,

395
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:05.519
<v Speaker 1>but you're raising standards at the same time. We hope

396
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:10.119
<v Speaker 1>people rinse and repeat. This is the definition of institutional DeFi.

397
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh, absolutely, So what's the long term vision for sharplink

398
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.839
<v Speaker 2>and even the theorem as a blockchain platform. I've noticed

399
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of institutions start with ethan They build there

400
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:23.880
<v Speaker 2>because of the security and all the great benefits you

401
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:27.480
<v Speaker 2>highlighted before. But what's the long term view for sharplink?

402
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Sure, I think we and many others, including some of

403
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:35.359
<v Speaker 1>our competitors, believe that we're in an institutional adoption supercycle.

404
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Like that sounds really fancy. People like talking about macro

405
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:43.519
<v Speaker 1>and decade long opportunities. It's the idea. If I described

406
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:45.039
<v Speaker 1>it six months ago, I would have said there are

407
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:51.839
<v Speaker 1>three tailwinds driving adoption of digital assets and particularly on ethereum.

408
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.359
<v Speaker 1>One was stable coins. You know, stable coins are going

409
00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.319
<v Speaker 1>to grow from a three hundred billion dollar asset class

410
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:03.559
<v Speaker 1>when other countries start creating local denominated stable coins, you're

411
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.319
<v Speaker 1>going to start seeing stable coin size explode. Secretary Vesant,

412
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.519
<v Speaker 1>US Secretary Treasury says it'll grow into the trillions. It's

413
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:14.799
<v Speaker 1>happening on ethereum predominantly. The second is the idea of

414
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:19.119
<v Speaker 1>tokenized assets. Right now, there's about thirty billion dollars of

415
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.000
<v Speaker 1>real world assets that are tokenized. That is a drop

416
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:24.920
<v Speaker 1>in the bucket of the seven hundred trillion. If you

417
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.839
<v Speaker 1>ask them what I'm looking for is I'm looking for

418
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:31.200
<v Speaker 1>people to go from tokenizing single funds to earn entire

419
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:35.960
<v Speaker 1>fund complexes measured in the trillions. Step function increases. And

420
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.200
<v Speaker 1>the third I would have said was just this idea

421
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.839
<v Speaker 1>of institutions coming to DeFi, and a lot of DeFi

422
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:46.400
<v Speaker 1>is on ethereum. The good, high quality DeFi is on ethereum.

423
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:49.559
<v Speaker 1>The fourth thing, which I think is just emerged, is

424
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:54.240
<v Speaker 1>not a cliche. It's this idea that AI is not

425
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.279
<v Speaker 1>going to be what we've thought of it in twenty

426
00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:00.319
<v Speaker 1>twenty four, in twenty twenty five is a generalized AI

427
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:05.599
<v Speaker 1>assistant copilots vibe coding you're going to see in twenty

428
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:09.519
<v Speaker 1>twenty six task specific agents, and then you're going to

429
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:12.599
<v Speaker 1>see these agents start collaborating, and then you're going to

430
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:17.240
<v Speaker 1>see an ecosystem of agents working on your behalf. When

431
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.480
<v Speaker 1>that happens, these agents are going to have to trust

432
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:21.599
<v Speaker 1>one another, they're going to have to pay one another.

433
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:23.599
<v Speaker 1>It's not going to happen in dollars. It's going to

434
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:27.039
<v Speaker 1>happen with stable coins, and it's going to create a vibrant,

435
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:31.039
<v Speaker 1>almost a machine economy that's going to be in parallel

436
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:34.480
<v Speaker 1>to your personal life. That is going to create transaction

437
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.400
<v Speaker 1>volume that we've never seen before because it's going to

438
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.319
<v Speaker 1>be automated in real time, and there's a strong belief

439
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 1>it's going to happen in an Ethereum decentralized economy, so

440
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:48.480
<v Speaker 1>you have stable coins, tokenized real world assets, institutional DeFi

441
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.759
<v Speaker 1>and this idea of a machine agent economy in finance.

442
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.920
<v Speaker 1>These are massive, massive tailwinds for what we call the

443
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 1>decade long theory opportunity. And I think Ethereum has not

444
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:05.880
<v Speaker 1>only the license to win because it's trusted, secure and liquid.

445
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.160
<v Speaker 1>It's winning. So I don't believe it's going to be

446
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.319
<v Speaker 1>the exclusive blockchain. I think there's a role for a

447
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of L two's and other l ones but in finance,

448
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.279
<v Speaker 1>I think this is going to be the net winner.

449
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I totally agree with you, and I'll show an

450
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.559
<v Speaker 2>example of you know, you mentioned AI, but also the

451
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:28.119
<v Speaker 2>humanoid robots when that is fully commercializing in the warehouses

452
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:31.279
<v Speaker 2>and in our homes eventually, you know, I interviewed the

453
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.599
<v Speaker 2>founder of open Mind. So they're building humanoid robots and

454
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.000
<v Speaker 2>there's a crypto wallet built in and the robot gets

455
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.079
<v Speaker 2>its daily download of its constitution from any theorem smart contract,

456
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.039
<v Speaker 2>which I found fascinating. And I've often looked at movies

457
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.200
<v Speaker 2>and thought, you know, Skynet and I robot, how do

458
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.559
<v Speaker 2>we control these things? Well, blockchains a solution, eth being

459
00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.200
<v Speaker 2>one of the you know, the could be it a

460
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:53.279
<v Speaker 2>fabric of a lot of that.

461
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's really interesting. I love that I grew up

462
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.720
<v Speaker 1>in the age of the Jetsons. You may be too

463
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>young to remember the Jetsons, reading Jules Verns and science fiction,

464
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.039
<v Speaker 1>but I really believe we're going to be shocked because

465
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:08.240
<v Speaker 1>when we talk about AI today, it's about a human

466
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.160
<v Speaker 1>in the front and AI in the back, and humans

467
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 1>are programming it. I think the role of humans are

468
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.039
<v Speaker 1>going to be to build governance and guardrails, and the

469
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:20.519
<v Speaker 1>AI is going to be autonomous and automated. And you know,

470
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I think people underestimate the impact of having a digital

471
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:29.599
<v Speaker 1>twin of your wallet that's given agency to do things

472
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:32.759
<v Speaker 1>on your behalf. Within guardrails, We're going to start seeing

473
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:35.160
<v Speaker 1>an asset manager in your wallet. We're going to see

474
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:39.079
<v Speaker 1>an automated market maker in your wallet. Instead of you

475
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.960
<v Speaker 1>going into the pond and trying to fish for yield,

476
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.200
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna stake your eth, move it around, look for

477
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.559
<v Speaker 1>yield opportunities. It's going to monitor compliance and risk in

478
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.119
<v Speaker 1>your smart contracts so you're not the last one out

479
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.079
<v Speaker 1>when when the next downturn happens. So it's it's going

480
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:58.920
<v Speaker 1>to be remarkable, it's inevitable. The real question is it

481
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:01.559
<v Speaker 1>going to be how fast is it going to mainstream?

482
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:03.720
<v Speaker 1>But I'm excited and I think it's going to happen

483
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:07.279
<v Speaker 1>on decentralized networks, not on vendor locked in networks.

484
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:09.519
<v Speaker 2>So Joseph, it sounds like I'm not gonna need a

485
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>RIA or a wealth manager. I'll have my AI agent.

486
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:16.599
<v Speaker 2>And it's a bit of way off, but it can

487
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.119
<v Speaker 2>do that twenty four to seven and go into different

488
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:24.160
<v Speaker 2>markets globally because everything's going to be on the blockchain

489
00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:26.359
<v Speaker 2>token ies twenty four to seven, three sixty five.

490
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that is the answer. I still think

491
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 1>there'll be roll for banks. It might be more in

492
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:35.440
<v Speaker 1>commercial relationships than in retail, but I think there's going

493
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.039
<v Speaker 1>to be a view no different when you got your phone,

494
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.400
<v Speaker 1>your iPhone, your Samsung in the early days, you had

495
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:46.720
<v Speaker 1>an expectation around a commercial experience, a consumer experience, always on,

496
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:52.759
<v Speaker 1>always available, programmable, easy to use. You don't have that

497
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.000
<v Speaker 1>experience in finance today. And once you get a taste

498
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:58.519
<v Speaker 1>of what that's going to be like. And I don't

499
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:02.160
<v Speaker 1>mean this like you know you're on a blockchain. I

500
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.039
<v Speaker 1>don't mean the UX is bad. I mean it's just seamless,

501
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:07.559
<v Speaker 1>and it's happening behind the scenes. You don't even know

502
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.319
<v Speaker 1>you're on the chain. You don't know that you have

503
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.359
<v Speaker 1>an AI agent helping you. When that happens, there's no

504
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.279
<v Speaker 1>going back. And I think some of the largest institutions

505
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:19.160
<v Speaker 1>in the world are starting to realize they need to evolve.

506
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Stop talking about accounts, start talking about wallets.

507
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Wallets with sharpling strategy around ether, do you foresee potentially

508
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.079
<v Speaker 2>adding layer two assets layer twos on etherrem into your

509
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:35.279
<v Speaker 2>treasury or it doesn't really make sense.

510
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I think for us, ether is going to be that

511
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 1>trust commodity that secures the future transactions, whether again they're cryptonative,

512
00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:47.480
<v Speaker 1>whether they're in DeFi, whether they're tokenized real world assets

513
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.000
<v Speaker 1>trading for it twenty four to seven, whether it's the

514
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.480
<v Speaker 1>machine agentic economy on ethereum. So I think Ether is

515
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.799
<v Speaker 1>going to be a really really important token, almost a

516
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:01.960
<v Speaker 1>trust commodity, in all order to help secure these transactions.

517
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 1>So Ether has a lot of tailwinds. I do think

518
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 1>that the market isn't yet pricing all that in, but

519
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 1>I do think in the market we're going to start

520
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 1>seeing a lot of divergence and differentiation between tokens and

521
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:21.039
<v Speaker 1>protocols that are truly providing utility versus those who think

522
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:24.920
<v Speaker 1>first price action then utility. I think the price action

523
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.480
<v Speaker 1>is going to follow the utility, not the other way around.

524
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.920
<v Speaker 1>And October tenth last year was a bit of a

525
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:32.400
<v Speaker 1>wake up call, and I think we're going to have

526
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.519
<v Speaker 1>a flight to quality and utility, and I think that's

527
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 1>good for the markets.

528
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Do you think the catalyst for that is the Clarity

529
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Act passing where you have the clear rules of the road.

530
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.559
<v Speaker 2>It might help mitigate some of the over speculation, which look,

531
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:49.920
<v Speaker 2>speculation is part of every market, but you know the

532
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:52.839
<v Speaker 2>rug polls and things like that. We weed that out,

533
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.440
<v Speaker 2>and like you said, we entered an era of utility.

534
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.359
<v Speaker 1>I think that I think that is the case. I

535
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.799
<v Speaker 1>think it's going to happen with or without the Clarity Act.

536
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.039
<v Speaker 1>I think if the Clarity Act doesn't pass before the midterms,

537
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:08.079
<v Speaker 1>the CFTC and SEC they're working in unison, they're working

538
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.839
<v Speaker 1>in concert, and they'll do eighty to ninety percent of

539
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 1>this through rule making. That said, I'm optimistic the Clarity

540
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Act will pass with some sort of compromise between the

541
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.599
<v Speaker 1>banks and the stable coin issuers. I think what's even

542
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:25.319
<v Speaker 1>more important is that you know, a lot of the

543
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:30.160
<v Speaker 1>liquidity was coming from speculative money, which is actually good. Sure,

544
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.960
<v Speaker 1>startups need the innovation, they need investment, but I do

545
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.559
<v Speaker 1>think there's a long tail of tokens that don't have

546
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:40.519
<v Speaker 1>a ton of utility. The real institutional capital is going

547
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.319
<v Speaker 1>to go to the ones that are going to be

548
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:45.319
<v Speaker 1>building the next layer of infrastructure, the next layer of governance,

549
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.400
<v Speaker 1>the next layer of a machine AGENTIC economy, and I

550
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:50.680
<v Speaker 1>think we're going to see a differentiation in twenty six

551
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:52.599
<v Speaker 1>and certainly in twenty seven immedia.

552
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:55.359
<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of like the maturing of the crypto

553
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:56.359
<v Speaker 2>mark if you want to say that.

554
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's maturing, but it doesn't mean that the building

555
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.079
<v Speaker 1>is going to slow down and the innovation is going

556
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:04.119
<v Speaker 1>to slow down. It's still really volatile, yeah, which is

557
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:08.160
<v Speaker 1>a great aspect of a market that's in growth stages.

558
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It reminds me of in I think it was

559
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety six when President Bill Clinton at a time

560
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Speaker 2>they passed the Telecommunications Bill. You know, it's the big

561
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>battle between those folks and the Internet, and that kicked

562
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:24.839
<v Speaker 2>off incredible, incredible innovation. So it feels like we're at

563
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:25.359
<v Speaker 2>that moment.

564
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think there's this idea that there is a

565
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:31.160
<v Speaker 1>doomsday coming because of AI. It's going to take over

566
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.599
<v Speaker 1>our lives, it's going to take control of governance, it's

567
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.680
<v Speaker 1>going to replace jobs. There was that same fear in

568
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:40.920
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety six that the Internet was going to destroy

569
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.920
<v Speaker 1>business models. People didn't understand that it just became the

570
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.359
<v Speaker 1>new means of value creation, the new means of production.

571
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.440
<v Speaker 1>And as long as we can make sure that these

572
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.480
<v Speaker 1>new AI models are in the hands of everyone. In fact,

573
00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:59.880
<v Speaker 1>they should be in every library, accessible to every human being.

574
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 1>That is going to be the new means of production,

575
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.599
<v Speaker 1>and it actually breaks down barriers. You may not need

576
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 1>the same level of Ivy League education to start your

577
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:11.640
<v Speaker 1>own company. You just need access. So I'm actually very

578
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.079
<v Speaker 1>bullish that we may have a period of disruption where

579
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.839
<v Speaker 1>jobs are going to be disrupted, but I think it's

580
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.839
<v Speaker 1>going to create incredible prosperity and efficiency. The number one

581
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.920
<v Speaker 1>question is the benefits of this efficiency gain that's going

582
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>to be step function. Is it going to go to

583
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:29.480
<v Speaker 1>all humans or is it going to be held in

584
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the hands of a few companies. And the question is

585
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:36.839
<v Speaker 1>are sovereign nations going to put barriers up or is

586
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:42.279
<v Speaker 1>this something that's going to reintroduce globalism where information value

587
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.240
<v Speaker 1>will no longer have national barriers. So those are my

588
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.559
<v Speaker 1>two questions. Where is the value going to inure to

589
00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 1>and are is this going to be Are these going

590
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.559
<v Speaker 1>to become sovereign chains with walls or is it going

591
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 1>to be open to everyone? And it's going to reintroduce

592
00:33:55.119 --> 00:34:00.960
<v Speaker 1>this idea of globalism, globalism of information and supply chains.

593
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Great question, and I'm hoping it's interoperable and everybody works together.

594
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.640
<v Speaker 2>And you know, with stable coins and CBDCs are moving

595
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:11.599
<v Speaker 2>at T zero, suddenly instantly we can move money faster, cheaper,

596
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:13.360
<v Speaker 2>better lives for people and things like that.

597
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I just came back from two plus weeks

598
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.599
<v Speaker 1>in Asia, and I learned a few lessons. I learned

599
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.000
<v Speaker 1>that when the Genius Act was passed and the Trump

600
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.280
<v Speaker 1>administration became pro crypto, the US catapult to ten years

601
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:31.800
<v Speaker 1>forward in terms of clarity lowercase C clarity. And it

602
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:35.639
<v Speaker 1>started with this idea of we need to mainstream stable coins.

603
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:40.440
<v Speaker 1>And there's a geopolitical angle that people aren't talking about enough,

604
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.880
<v Speaker 1>which is, you know, as demand for US treasury is waning, Russia, China,

605
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Europe buying less US treasury, stable coins require people to

606
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.000
<v Speaker 1>buy treasuries. And of the three hundred and eight billion

607
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:56.760
<v Speaker 1>dollars of stable coins, tether USDC that the twelfth largest

608
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.519
<v Speaker 1>creditor of the US government. So when I was in Asia,

609
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:01.840
<v Speaker 1>I think there was a wake up call and realization

610
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that the gun went off and we're in a race.

611
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:08.719
<v Speaker 1>And whether you're in Hong Kong, Soul or Tokyo, there's

612
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:12.280
<v Speaker 1>a realization they need to pass stable coin legislation, they

613
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 1>need to start issuing licenses because they want their economy

614
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to not be beholden to US dollar transactions through stable coins.

615
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 1>And if the world is going to tokenize and digitize,

616
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:26.039
<v Speaker 1>there need to be Korean wand back stable coins and

617
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, Japanese yenn and Hong Kong dollar, and that

618
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.239
<v Speaker 1>is the first step to what's coming next, which is tokenization.

619
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Each of these regions want to become the digital hub

620
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.119
<v Speaker 1>of Asia, and they know they're in a geopolitical competition

621
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 1>with the US.

622
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:48.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there's such a great geopolitical layer to all

623
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:51.760
<v Speaker 2>of this. And you know, I watch the top holders

624
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:53.920
<v Speaker 2>of US treasuries and they see Tew They're climbing up

625
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:54.519
<v Speaker 2>the list.

626
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Like every year alongside circle USDC.

627
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's fascinating.

628
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Such a paradigm shift completely, maybe a new Bretton Woods moment,

629
00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:04.280
<v Speaker 2>if you want to call it that.

630
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.519
<v Speaker 1>You know, yeah, we're we're at the end of an

631
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:10.159
<v Speaker 1>eighty year supercycle and there'll be a new supercycle. I

632
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:12.960
<v Speaker 1>liken it a little bit to you know. The nineteen

633
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:16.679
<v Speaker 1>seventies saw the electronification of all equity markets and the

634
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 1>nineties and two thousands on the bond market. This is

635
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>going to be the future of how we live. It's

636
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Speaker 1>going to start in finance, and it's going to move

637
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.679
<v Speaker 1>to governance, and it's going to really empower, you know,

638
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.360
<v Speaker 1>billions of people in ways that they haven't been before.

639
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.920
<v Speaker 1>So I want to stay really positive. I think this

640
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 1>can be a force of immense prosperity and good.

641
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:38.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, you mentioned the change that took place in

642
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the seventies with the digitization. Do you see that maybe

643
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.519
<v Speaker 2>twenty thirties a bit too early, But let's say twenty

644
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:50.960
<v Speaker 2>thirty five, the convergence of the stock and equity markets

645
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.519
<v Speaker 2>with crypto and the commodity markets, and it's no longer

646
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:57.280
<v Speaker 2>they're in their own segmented group, but rather it's just

647
00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:58.639
<v Speaker 2>the market because it's all token.

648
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Someone I admire, my chairman at Sharplank, Joe Lubin,

649
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.440
<v Speaker 1>has a great analogy. He says, we're starting on separate

650
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:12.639
<v Speaker 1>rail tracks. Those rails will converge and the word trad

651
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.559
<v Speaker 1>fi will become obsolete, And I think the word crypto

652
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:18.519
<v Speaker 1>will become obsolete, and we're just gonna call it five.

653
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.159
<v Speaker 1>It's gonna be finance it's going to be digital, and

654
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be cryptographic, and it's going to be twenty

655
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:29.440
<v Speaker 1>four to seven, and it's gonna unleash stranded capital like

656
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:31.480
<v Speaker 1>we've never seen before. But it's just going to become

657
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:34.239
<v Speaker 1>digital finance. We're going to live in a digital world,

658
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:36.400
<v Speaker 1>in a digital economy, and it's going to be in

659
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.079
<v Speaker 1>our wallets and it's gonna be in chips and it's

660
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 1>gonna be all around us.

661
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Wow, a brave new world. I have an eight year

662
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.159
<v Speaker 2>old daughter, so I think about the world she's going

663
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.280
<v Speaker 2>to be living in it when she becomes an adult.

664
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:51.039
<v Speaker 2>And I'm trying to, like maybe Prepper, here's blockchain, here's AI,

665
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:54.440
<v Speaker 2>here's what to expect, and you know, I try to

666
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:57.880
<v Speaker 2>not also push certain things that are happening now too

667
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.000
<v Speaker 2>much because it's going to change by the time.

668
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.079
<v Speaker 1>Although it's interesting, I told you I grew up in

669
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:05.400
<v Speaker 1>an immigrant family. I was an immigrant to technology as well.

670
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.079
<v Speaker 1>It happened when I was in my Internet happened when

671
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.599
<v Speaker 1>I was in my twenties. Your daughter is going to

672
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:14.880
<v Speaker 1>be digitally native. You're going to become, you know, the

673
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:18.039
<v Speaker 1>old digital immigrant. She's going to become your help desk

674
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:19.679
<v Speaker 1>I see it with my eleven year old at home,

675
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:21.320
<v Speaker 1>So it's amazing.

676
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:25.719
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing how that works. It's fascinating. And you know,

677
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.920
<v Speaker 2>with the building out of the tokenization market and stable

678
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:31.880
<v Speaker 2>coins and much more. You know, we talked about it

679
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:35.440
<v Speaker 2>eth being that first up blockchain of many institutions and

680
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.360
<v Speaker 2>companies go to. There are also a lot of l twos,

681
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.320
<v Speaker 2>which I referenced earlier. Recently of Ittalic Blootarouen said there

682
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:43.280
<v Speaker 2>may not be a need for as many l twos,

683
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:45.880
<v Speaker 2>especially as there's upgrades on etherorem as a layer one.

684
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:48.920
<v Speaker 2>So do you see some consolidation there, not that all

685
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:50.920
<v Speaker 2>l twos are going to disappear, of course. Yeah.

686
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Look, I think the l twos on Ethereum were critical

687
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.400
<v Speaker 1>for five, six, seven years, and I think they're going

688
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.079
<v Speaker 1>to play a role in the future. They were critical

689
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.760
<v Speaker 1>because Ethereum built its protocol to be the most secure,

690
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.599
<v Speaker 1>to be the most trusted, to never go down. But

691
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:15.159
<v Speaker 1>they didn't actually prioritize initially in their roadmap throughput to

692
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:19.079
<v Speaker 1>the level that's needed for what's coming and privacy. So

693
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.360
<v Speaker 1>they had an intentional roll up strategy where you know,

694
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:26.320
<v Speaker 1>you can encourage layer twos to benefit from the security

695
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:31.000
<v Speaker 1>of Ethereum, to be EVM compatible, but to essentially be

696
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:34.719
<v Speaker 1>able to be customizable and build massive throughput. In the

697
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>last couple of years and the next couple of years,

698
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:40.800
<v Speaker 1>you're seeing step function increases in Ethereum mainenet, the layer

699
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:45.039
<v Speaker 1>ones transaction throughput. I think what Fetalic is saying is

700
00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:49.320
<v Speaker 1>you can't be a generalist layer two just because you're fast.

701
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:52.440
<v Speaker 1>It's not enough. You need to have an edge, and

702
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.320
<v Speaker 1>that could be privacy, it could be something else. You

703
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:58.239
<v Speaker 1>might be the institutional chain, you might have a you know,

704
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.239
<v Speaker 1>an asset class that you're focused on, But to to

705
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.079
<v Speaker 1>be a generalized L two is not helpful. That said,

706
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:06.960
<v Speaker 1>I think there will be other l ones. Many are

707
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.960
<v Speaker 1>coming for Ethereum. I just think the finality and economic

708
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:14.800
<v Speaker 1>security needed by finance it's going to happen on Ethereum.

709
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Others may be great for meme coins, gaming and things

710
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:23.559
<v Speaker 1>that require less economic security, but I think the advantage

711
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:28.039
<v Speaker 1>of speed. It's coming to MAInet and you're going to

712
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:33.039
<v Speaker 1>see it be both secure and with maximum throughput. So

713
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:35.280
<v Speaker 1>we will challenge some of the layer twos unless they

714
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.880
<v Speaker 1>customize and look, there's a reason there's a reason why

715
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Robin Hood, there's a reason why coinbase built on ethereum.

716
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.280
<v Speaker 1>They want the inherent security, but they want to be

717
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:48.400
<v Speaker 1>able to customize it in the way they want.

718
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that makes sense, and it seems like Joseph, I

719
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:54.320
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you agree with you, but many organizations

720
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and companies may just build an L two for their

721
00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.639
<v Speaker 2>inter internal movements of value or whatever they need to do.

722
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I think of Sony, they built sonyum Etherorem L two. Yeah.

723
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Look, it's interesting. I think we need to break with

724
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.239
<v Speaker 1>the prior technological cycles. So what do I mean by that?

725
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.440
<v Speaker 1>The prior technological cycles, and I'm going to go old school.

726
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:18.159
<v Speaker 1>The browser wars, the CRM wars, yeah, the cloud wars,

727
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.840
<v Speaker 1>the phone wars, the AI wars. They were started with

728
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:26.840
<v Speaker 1>a plethora of participants and then two or three dominated.

729
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.559
<v Speaker 1>There were net winners. And by the way, in many

730
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:37.280
<v Speaker 1>of these use cases, it's the same net winners. It's Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft.

731
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.519
<v Speaker 1>I think what we're really really hopeful for is that

732
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:44.039
<v Speaker 1>there'll be a million chains and a million stable coins,

733
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:49.119
<v Speaker 1>and anyone can spin it up and win, and AI

734
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:53.519
<v Speaker 1>will not be centralized in three hands. I hope this

735
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:58.239
<v Speaker 1>technology revolution is more decentralized. I hope this technology revolution

736
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:02.239
<v Speaker 1>is more democratic, and I hope the benefits go to

737
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>the users, not necessarily the incumbents. And I think that's

738
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:12.039
<v Speaker 1>what the promise of truly decentralized blockchain and AI can provide.

739
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 1>There's a role for big technology, but I hope it's

740
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.719
<v Speaker 1>more democratized than what we've seen in the previous layers,

741
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:19.639
<v Speaker 1>and I believe it will be.

742
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm in agreement with you that the powers

743
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:28.159
<v Speaker 2>are not consolidated, but more decentralized. And you know, I've

744
00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:31.320
<v Speaker 2>been hearing to term a lot lately, a level playing field,

745
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:34.559
<v Speaker 2>more of a level playing field. I would love to

746
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 2>get your thoughts on the market conditions. You've seen many

747
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>bull and bear markets. It's all cyclical, right, Joseph. But

748
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.119
<v Speaker 2>it's of course tough to go through these bear markets.

749
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Not asking for price predictions, but do you see crypto

750
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.239
<v Speaker 2>rebounding maybe later this year or next year? Things like that? Sure?

751
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:51.559
<v Speaker 1>I think can I start with two statements?

752
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.199
<v Speaker 2>Sure you can't.

753
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:57.199
<v Speaker 1>Like a volatile asset on the upside and bemoan it

754
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>on the downside. That's the definition of volatility. You want

755
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:05.719
<v Speaker 1>the upside. It has downside. I've seen similar draw downs

756
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:10.239
<v Speaker 1>and consolidations and Bitcoin eighth and others five times in

757
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.519
<v Speaker 1>my crypto career, and I've only been doing this for

758
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:17.079
<v Speaker 1>about six or seven years. And each time it's recovered

759
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:19.639
<v Speaker 1>in a V shape recovery and come back stronger. And

760
00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:21.840
<v Speaker 1>what it often does is it takes out leverage for

761
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.079
<v Speaker 1>a quarter or two, takes out liquidity for a quarter

762
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:29.639
<v Speaker 1>or two, some of the real speculation you benefit on

763
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:34.199
<v Speaker 1>the high side of all, you lose on the consolidation period.

764
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:36.280
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not freaked out. And by the way I

765
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:38.800
<v Speaker 1>said it earlier at sharplink, we're built for up markets

766
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:42.039
<v Speaker 1>and down markets. We're productive through every one of these markets,

767
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.719
<v Speaker 1>I think I said earlier. I think one lesson learned

768
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:50.280
<v Speaker 1>from this October tenth deleveraging moment is people need to

769
00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:53.159
<v Speaker 1>understand the risks of what they're doing. And I think

770
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:57.559
<v Speaker 1>what you saw in October tenth on PERP exchanges and

771
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:02.000
<v Speaker 1>centralized exchanges and decentralized exchange was there was an expectation

772
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.800
<v Speaker 1>that if you diversified across exchanges you were fined. But

773
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.800
<v Speaker 1>then you started seeing things that people didn't understand, which

774
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:12.440
<v Speaker 1>was auto deleveraging. Yeah, and you wipe out one side

775
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:14.679
<v Speaker 1>of a position, you think you're hedged on the other side,

776
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:17.719
<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't work. So one of the things that

777
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:20.639
<v Speaker 1>I think we need to do in the crypto space

778
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.519
<v Speaker 1>is not call everything a tail risk. Yeah, like Toobra eleventh,

779
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:27.119
<v Speaker 1>people were telling me, oh, it's a tail risk. It

780
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.800
<v Speaker 1>was unexpected. Like in all of finance, you model tail risks.

781
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:35.920
<v Speaker 1>You understand the risks of your positions, the correlations, the

782
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:39.639
<v Speaker 1>counterparty risk, the concentration risks. You know, in this case,

783
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:45.440
<v Speaker 1>oracles who are trying to price assets failed and that

784
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:49.119
<v Speaker 1>led to a cascading problem. But I'm actually an optimist

785
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 1>and I think we'll get through in the next few months,

786
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:55.719
<v Speaker 1>and I think we'll see Bitcoin and eth reach new highs.

787
00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:00.039
<v Speaker 1>But I won't throw out random predictions, and I I

788
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:01.880
<v Speaker 1>do have a view I want to share, which is

789
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to put it out there. Ether is not

790
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.800
<v Speaker 1>a younger brother of Bitcoin. For a lot of its history,

791
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:13.800
<v Speaker 1>they've traded in tandem. But I think ethereum has an

792
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:18.159
<v Speaker 1>intrinsic value given the tailwinds. It's programmable. The future of

793
00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:20.480
<v Speaker 1>finance is going to be written on ethereum, not bitcoin.

794
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:23.280
<v Speaker 1>So I do think we need to start thinking of

795
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:27.159
<v Speaker 1>these things as decoupling, and each one should stand on

796
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:29.559
<v Speaker 1>the merits of the utility and the value they provide.

797
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.360
<v Speaker 1>But the idea of throwing out price points of what's

798
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:34.239
<v Speaker 1>going to happen, you're just going to be wrong and

799
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.199
<v Speaker 1>let people down. And I also don't like the narrative

800
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.800
<v Speaker 1>that you know eth is just a coefficient to a

801
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.159
<v Speaker 1>younger brother of bitcoin. These are these needs to decouple

802
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:45.880
<v Speaker 1>and they have to stand on their value and utility.

803
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:49.880
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is the catalyst that drives that decoupling.

804
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.440
<v Speaker 2>And it's also a follow up question to the October

805
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:57.960
<v Speaker 2>tenth situation. Is a lack of regulation, a lack of infrastructure,

806
00:45:58.199 --> 00:45:59.280
<v Speaker 2>or combination of both.

807
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Actually think it's it's even simpler. So I actually love bitcoin.

808
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:05.880
<v Speaker 1>I love ETH. I think there's gonna be a role

809
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:09.119
<v Speaker 1>for a lot of utility tokens. But bitcoin does one

810
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:13.039
<v Speaker 1>thing exceptionally well. The network is trusted and it moves

811
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.599
<v Speaker 1>a store of value. At this point, ninety five percent

812
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:19.559
<v Speaker 1>of ale bitcoin has been mined, and I think there's

813
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a million bitcoin left to be mined. And it does

814
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.000
<v Speaker 1>one thing well. Think of it as digital store of value.

815
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:27.719
<v Speaker 1>Not sure if it's really functioned in the last few

816
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:33.480
<v Speaker 1>months as digital gold or a or a risk off asset. Ethereum.

817
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:39.320
<v Speaker 1>I think will over time gain supremacy because it's programmable.

818
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:41.960
<v Speaker 1>And when you start seeing stable coins go from three

819
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:46.639
<v Speaker 1>hundred billion to trillions, you start seeing tokenized assets go

820
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:51.039
<v Speaker 1>from thirty billion to trillions, You start seeing institutions participate

821
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:54.960
<v Speaker 1>in DeFi, you start seeing agentic economies being built through

822
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:58.239
<v Speaker 1>smart contracts and rules, and you know, I'm going to

823
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.079
<v Speaker 1>geek out erc eight zeros or four, which is the

824
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:06.280
<v Speaker 1>trustless agent protocol of etheroeum. It's not happening on Bitcoin. Yeah,

825
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.480
<v Speaker 1>And so I'm not saying one is better than the other.

826
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:12.039
<v Speaker 1>I think over time the Theorem network will be a

827
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:15.559
<v Speaker 1>more used network and provide more real world utility. But

828
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:16.440
<v Speaker 1>I love them both.

829
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, They're very different, and I honestly I hold both.

830
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:23.320
<v Speaker 2>I stake ETH and Bitcoin is my digital goal. But

831
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:25.920
<v Speaker 2>ETH I can do a lot of different things. I

832
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:28.760
<v Speaker 2>can build, I can put it to work, and it's

833
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.639
<v Speaker 2>just why not have both, right? And one is they're

834
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:36.800
<v Speaker 2>very different, you know, And as far as network adoption,

835
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:41.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, ETH has that ability to have people build

836
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:44.920
<v Speaker 2>on it. And metcalslaw can play out there, and I'm

837
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:46.280
<v Speaker 2>hoping for the decoupling as well.

838
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.239
<v Speaker 1>I agree, but I'm not talking about a flippaning. I'm

839
00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:54.320
<v Speaker 1>not an ethe Maxie. I'm actually a finance transformation maxine.

840
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:57.159
<v Speaker 1>I know it's going to happen on ethereum, but yeah,

841
00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:00.119
<v Speaker 1>you know one thing that is just super interesting is

842
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.519
<v Speaker 1>is the quantum question has been hurting Bitcoin a little bit.

843
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.559
<v Speaker 1>And this idea of how do you quantum proof Bitcoin

844
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:12.840
<v Speaker 1>including wallets that are og wallets that have never been

845
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:17.880
<v Speaker 1>activated in a decade or longer, Whereas Ethereum I think

846
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:20.280
<v Speaker 1>has a roadmap to be quantum proof. It's a high

847
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 1>priority to the Theorem Foundation. There's a working group. So

848
00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:28.000
<v Speaker 1>I think bitcoin had a singular narrative and it's at

849
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:30.400
<v Speaker 1>risk of losing a bit of that narrative because of

850
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.639
<v Speaker 1>how it's performed. But it's a great asset. It's a

851
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:37.519
<v Speaker 1>scarce asset. You want to own rare, scarce assets in

852
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.760
<v Speaker 1>a world where you know many economies are debasing their

853
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:41.559
<v Speaker 1>own currencies.

854
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well said, what's on your road map for a sharplink?

855
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.679
<v Speaker 1>So I think it's really interesting. First of all, I

856
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:49.840
<v Speaker 1>want to thank you you're like the first podcast in

857
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:52.719
<v Speaker 1>a while that hasn't said we're in DAT four point zero.

858
00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:53.599
<v Speaker 2>Right.

859
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:58.360
<v Speaker 1>The Digital Asset Treasury space launched last summer in Ethereum, Solana,

860
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Hype and other coins, you know, and there's no ecosystem

861
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:05.360
<v Speaker 1>in the world or no business model where you're eight

862
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:07.519
<v Speaker 1>months in and you're in version three or four. I

863
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.360
<v Speaker 1>think we're in version one point zero. Version one was

864
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:15.079
<v Speaker 1>building the right team, staking your eth, doing it yourself.

865
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:17.119
<v Speaker 1>You know, a lot of the dats rely on third

866
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.239
<v Speaker 1>parties who take a lot of value out of the system.

867
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:22.760
<v Speaker 1>I think the second stage or where we're going is

868
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.800
<v Speaker 1>to make it the most productive and to take that

869
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:29.039
<v Speaker 1>permanent capital, in our case billions of ether and put

870
00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:32.360
<v Speaker 1>it back into the ecosystem, not just to be benevolent

871
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:35.599
<v Speaker 1>to the ecosystem, but to drive yield. You do that, right,

872
00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the price of ether will continue going up. And I

873
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.800
<v Speaker 1>think the third stage is going to be for digital

874
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:46.079
<v Speaker 1>asset treasuries to specialize and build operating companies that are

875
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Ethereum aligned, that help the ecosystem, that drive profits, and

876
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:53.679
<v Speaker 1>if those profits and revenues are in ETH, to another

877
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.519
<v Speaker 1>means to accumulate ETH on the balance sheet. You make

878
00:49:56.559 --> 00:49:58.679
<v Speaker 1>it productive, you drive yield, put it back on the

879
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:03.599
<v Speaker 1>balance sheet. You build ethereum operating businesses, you earn it

880
00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:05.519
<v Speaker 1>in eth or dollars, you put it back on the

881
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.559
<v Speaker 1>balance sheet. So it's a very righteous cycle.

882
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:08.719
<v Speaker 2>You do this right.

883
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.039
<v Speaker 1>You don't take out debt, you don't encumber your eth.

884
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:14.559
<v Speaker 1>You survive good cycles and bad cycles. And that's fine.

885
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:16.360
<v Speaker 1>I think we need to be mature about this. I

886
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:18.920
<v Speaker 1>said it before. You can't like a VOLTI asset on

887
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:21.679
<v Speaker 1>the upside and bemoan it on the downside.

888
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and I really like that you guys don't have

889
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:27.519
<v Speaker 2>a plethora of debt hanging over your head. That's a

890
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:30.679
<v Speaker 2>very good thing. I got some wrap up questions here

891
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:33.119
<v Speaker 2>for you. Sure, First, if you could create your own metaverse,

892
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:33.599
<v Speaker 2>what would the.

893
00:50:33.519 --> 00:50:37.159
<v Speaker 1>Theme be, Oh, you're putting me on the spot, you

894
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.199
<v Speaker 1>know what I'll do, yls No, no, no. It would be

895
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:44.880
<v Speaker 1>a metaverse of the library of libraries, and you'd be

896
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:49.639
<v Speaker 1>able to walk into, you know, the Library of Ninveh,

897
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:54.800
<v Speaker 1>the Bagdad Library of Wisdom, the US Library of Congress,

898
00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:59.440
<v Speaker 1>the British Museum Library which has three hundred million artifacts,

899
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:03.760
<v Speaker 1>and you'd be able to, you know, in ninveb Babylonia.

900
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.880
<v Speaker 1>There were artifacts that had, you know, incredible history. Many

901
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:10.039
<v Speaker 1>of these were destroyed. So imagine you can walk into

902
00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:13.639
<v Speaker 1>a library of libraries and then even better, you can

903
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:17.800
<v Speaker 1>read and speak any language because AI has translated everything.

904
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:23.199
<v Speaker 1>Everything that would be my Disney world. So a metaverse

905
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:26.199
<v Speaker 1>library of libraries in your native language, where you can

906
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:30.320
<v Speaker 1>feel and touch these dusty books. There's a lot of

907
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:34.920
<v Speaker 1>knowledge that have been gathered that has never really been

908
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:36.880
<v Speaker 1>accessible to most people because you had to get on

909
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.400
<v Speaker 1>a plane. Who's going to Iraq, who's going to Alexandria, Egypt,

910
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:43.079
<v Speaker 1>not everyone's going to DC to the Library of Congress.

911
00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Make that accessible in your native language. Oh and then

912
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.119
<v Speaker 1>push a button and a TLDR is what.

913
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:50.079
<v Speaker 2>You just didn't read? That would be amazing.

914
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. That so I'm going to patent that the Metaverse

915
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Library of Libraries.

916
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:57.280
<v Speaker 2>That might be your next endeavor, Joseph.

917
00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what, if I had more time, I

918
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:02.639
<v Speaker 1>would actually take the whole worldwide organ donation system and

919
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:05.639
<v Speaker 1>put it on chain with smart contracts and priorities.

920
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:08.519
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, that's that would be a side hobby. Oh wow,

921
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:11.320
<v Speaker 2>but I love that at Metaverse Idea. That's something I

922
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:12.480
<v Speaker 2>would geek out.

923
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:14.360
<v Speaker 1>On and go to you really put me on the spot.

924
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 1>What's the next put me on the spot questions? I

925
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:18.119
<v Speaker 1>like hard questions, rapid fire questions.

926
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Favorite food.

927
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:25.199
<v Speaker 1>Favorite food is usually at restaurants that don't have tablecloths,

928
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:28.800
<v Speaker 1>and I will tell you, I just came back from Tokyo,

929
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:33.679
<v Speaker 1>Soul and Hong Kong. I really like Korean food, and

930
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:36.119
<v Speaker 1>our offices are a block away from New York Korea Town,

931
00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:40.000
<v Speaker 1>so I would say Korean food, but someplace that doesn't

932
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:40.840
<v Speaker 1>have a tablecloth.

933
00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:42.559
<v Speaker 2>Favorite musician or Ban.

934
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:47.199
<v Speaker 1>The Cure from the nineteen eighties and nineties.

935
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:50.239
<v Speaker 2>Nice. Favorite movie.

936
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a favorite movie. I just I watch

937
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:57.840
<v Speaker 1>everything pass Favorite book, I think a book. I don't

938
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:00.719
<v Speaker 1>read books. Twice I read a book recently Wise. It's

939
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:04.639
<v Speaker 1>a book called A Thousand Brains, and it's this idea

940
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:08.360
<v Speaker 1>of a unified theory of intelligence, or a unified theory

941
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:12.480
<v Speaker 1>of how the brain works. And it's remarkable. We know

942
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:14.719
<v Speaker 1>a lot about the anatomy of the brain, but we

943
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:18.199
<v Speaker 1>have no idea why we have like a neocortex and

944
00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:21.639
<v Speaker 1>billions of neurons, or why they're all firing. And it's

945
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:26.079
<v Speaker 1>this theory that there's not one brain determining that I'm

946
00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:29.159
<v Speaker 1>picking up a mug right now, Sure, there are thousands

947
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:33.360
<v Speaker 1>of mini brains who each have their own model. There's

948
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:35.760
<v Speaker 1>not a unified model of knowledge in your brain. Each

949
00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:39.039
<v Speaker 1>one has its own model. And when you touch, perceive,

950
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:43.000
<v Speaker 1>or pick up something, they're all firing to put out

951
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:47.440
<v Speaker 1>their theory. And there's a consensus mechanism where the brain

952
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:50.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of votes, yes, this is a white mug. It's cool.

953
00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:54.159
<v Speaker 1>It's made of clay, so that a thousand brains with

954
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:58.119
<v Speaker 1>different models, each voting, and then you have this idea

955
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:01.639
<v Speaker 1>of a voted perception and it's brilliant. So it's called

956
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:03.840
<v Speaker 1>a thousand brains. I would highly recommend it. Will and

957
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:06.159
<v Speaker 1>by the way, if you're in crypto and you're working

958
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:11.519
<v Speaker 1>around decentralized consensus models, it touched a nerve, no pun intended.

959
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's analogous in a way, right, Yeah, that definitely

960
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:17.239
<v Speaker 2>makes sense. Why you're networking? What are you doing for fun?

961
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:20.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm a father of three, I've been married for twenty

962
00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:24.280
<v Speaker 1>six years. This year I'm doing something super geeky. My

963
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:28.840
<v Speaker 1>local library has a fifty book challenge. Can you read

964
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:31.679
<v Speaker 1>fifty books in a year? And I'm not talking about

965
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:35.639
<v Speaker 1>short stories and children's anime books. So I'm trying to

966
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:37.400
<v Speaker 1>read fifty books this year. And I have like a

967
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:40.920
<v Speaker 1>very very taste from things like I just described, to

968
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:45.800
<v Speaker 1>murder mysteries to science fiction. I do like to shut

969
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:48.800
<v Speaker 1>down on the weekends because I'm a really intense worker. Sure,

970
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.000
<v Speaker 1>but I spend time with my children tour out of school,

971
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:54.880
<v Speaker 1>one lives at home, and I read a lot, and

972
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:56.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm really looking forward.

973
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I live in New York.

974
00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:00.119
<v Speaker 1>I live outside New York. Every time we've seen the graphs. Yes,

975
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:02.519
<v Speaker 1>this winter, the snow came back again.

976
00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:07.199
<v Speaker 2>So we're recording on Wednesday, fourth and March, so got

977
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:09.639
<v Speaker 2>a few more days or four or five days before

978
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.559
<v Speaker 2>we hit that high sixty eight degree weather, so that

979
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:13.440
<v Speaker 2>a should be pretty nice.

980
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm looking forward to the spring and seeing grass again.

981
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, Joseph, have great conversation, A pleasure. Thank you

982
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:20.639
<v Speaker 2>so much for joining.

983
00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Me, my pleasure. Thank you for the questions and making

984
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:26.280
<v Speaker 1>this conversational. I hope your listener learns something and I

985
00:55:26.360 --> 00:55:27.119
<v Speaker 1>learned something too.

986
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for tuning in. Please hit the

987
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:32.719
<v Speaker 2>like button, subscribe if you haven't as yet. If you're

988
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:35.760
<v Speaker 2>listening on a podcast platform such as Spotify or Apple.

989
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Please follow and leave a five star rating. Thank you

990
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:39.159
<v Speaker 2>so much.