WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:03.600 Hi. 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:04.639 My name's Roy Jeomey. 3 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:06.519 I live in Redondo Beach, California. 4 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.039 I'm playing golf with Fred at Rancho Park. This is 5 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.759 Golf Smarter, Episode nine hundred and ninety four. 6 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.480 I've been very lucky. I've spent a lot of time 7 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:18.000 talking with people that knew him well, and there are 8 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:20.800 probably some folks. I think of one of my dearest friends, 9 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.960 Sidney Matthew, who's a great golf history down in Tallahassee. 10 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:29.519 Sidney probably knows more about my grandfather than I ever will. 11 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:31.480 And I said, well, you need to tell this story, 12 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:35.280 and Sidney would say to me, no, you do coming 13 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.200 from me, it means nothing. He said, I'm going to 14 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.159 tell you a little secret. If you don't tell the stories, 15 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:44.719 then you're leaving it for somebody else too, who may 16 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:47.960 not have the same love for your grandfather that you do. 17 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.960 I've never really forgotten that, and so I see that 18 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:55.439 very much as a responsibility. I've often said that one 19 00:00:55.479 --> 00:00:59.119 of the goals is to make my grandfather come alive 20 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.479 in color for a new generation, and what that means 21 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.400 is seeing him not just as somebody about whom we 22 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.879 tell funny stories, is somebody who did great things on 23 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.480 the golf course, and all of those things are true, 24 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.439 but as somebody that was a real flesh and blood 25 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.519 human being who had many, many great personality traits and 26 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.719 many that were not so great. And that's important because 27 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:28.280 if the man becomes a real, honest to God human being, 28 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:31.719 then it kind of makes what he did even more special. 29 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.040 Growing up with the name Bobby Jones comes with pressure 30 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:44.760 and pride with grandson doctor Bob Jones. Four. This is 31 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:49.799 Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf 32 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:52.799 minds to help you lower your score and raise your 33 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:53.560 golf IQ. 34 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.159 Here's your host, Fred Green. 35 00:01:57.280 --> 00:01:59.439 Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Bob. 36 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.000 It's great to be with you, as always, Fred, it's 37 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:02.680 been too long. 38 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:05.760 It's been a year. Well, no, I think we did 39 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.280 something mid year. Did we do something mid year with 40 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.719 doctor Joe parent or two years ago? 41 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:14.000 That was two years ago? 42 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:17.680 Actually, oh, that's when I came back from my Yeah, yeah, 43 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.159 I introduced you guys when I came back and then yeah, 44 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:22.319 I don't remember when it was, but yeah, maybe it's 45 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.159 been a year since we've talked to each other. Yeah, Well, 46 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:28.120 on the podcast, we communicate with each other on a 47 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:31.639 regular basis because we've become friends and I'm so touched 48 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:33.000 and honored by your friendship. 49 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.479 Well that goes both ways, Fred, So thank you. 50 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:43.280 Thank you. So. Now you know, like this week, as 51 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:46.960 always when we talk, it's a week of the Masters. Yes, 52 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:53.479 we're your grandfather, Bob Bobby Jones, created the event, built 53 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:58.879 the golf course, and the legacy continues to grow. Yes, 54 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:03.319 and actually it's coming up to a really big event. 55 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:07.439 The timing of it for your grandfather, correct. 56 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.400 Well it is, well, it is. You know. One of 57 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.759 the things that's happened starting in twenty twenty three is 58 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:19.319 we've come up on the one hundredth anniversary of all 59 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:23.919 of my grandfather's major championship wins. In twenty twenty three, 60 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.439 we celebrated one hundred year of his one hundred years 61 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.520 of his first United States Open victory at Inwood Country 62 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:34.759 Club outside of New York, and then in last year 63 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.240 was a one hundredth anniversary of his twenty four US 64 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.159 Amateur win at Marion. This year will mark one hundredth 65 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:48.039 anniversary of the US Amateur victory at Oakmont. Interestingly enough, 66 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.800 that is the only time in US Amateur history where 67 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:56.800 the finals have been contested by two members of the 68 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:57.520 same club. 69 00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:58.520 Wow. 70 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:02.680 Yes, Bubb defeated Watt's Gunn, who was also a member 71 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:07.319 of the Atlanta Athletic Club, and to win his second 72 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:13.319 consecutive United States Amateur in twenty five. Another little tidbit 73 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.600 on that that people forget Bub, but Bub beat Watts 74 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:18.839 pretty badly in that final, and of course he beat 75 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:26.319 everybody pretty badly the final, but nobody remembers is Watts played. 76 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:30.319 Remember this is nineteen twenty five. Now, Watts played like 77 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:37.079 ninety holes of golf at even par on Oakmont, which then, 78 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:42.879 as now, is just a staggering statistic. Yeah, absolutely staggering statistic. 79 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:50.600 Huh Yeah, that's really remarkable. And help us understand, give 80 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:55.959 us a perspective on how in the days that we're 81 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:00.319 talking about, the early twenties, how important amateur golf was 82 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:05.319 to the game itself, because it's radically changed. It really 83 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:08.040 changed in this century with Tiger. 84 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:14.199 In this century. Yes, amateur golf in the early really 85 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:20.800 the amateur golf up until probably the nineteen seventies, amateur 86 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:27.800 golf was very much its own game, and it was 87 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:31.959 not necessarily considered to be a feeding ground for the 88 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:36.319 professional for the professional game in the nineteen twenties when 89 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.959 my grandfather played, the people who played in the amateur 90 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:45.040 game were every bit as good as the professionals. Professionals 91 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.199 in those days were mainly people who had club jobs 92 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:52.319 who would play in tournaments to supplement their income, and 93 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:58.360 the amateurs, and in fact the amateurs for example, if 94 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.399 you were an amateur and I was a professional, you 95 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:06.480 would be listed on the score sheet as mister Fred Green. 96 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:10.199 I would simply be listed on the score sheet as Bob. 97 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.120 Jones because of an I get that, because you. 98 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.879 Were an answer that's correct, you would get mister I 99 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:22.120 would not. And here's the interesting thing. In the United Kingdom, 100 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:25.120 I believe, all the way into the nineteen fifties, I 101 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:29.839 think professionals were not allowed in the clubhouse at all. 102 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:32.920 They would have to change their shoes in the parking lot. 103 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:37.399 Whoa yes. And one of the things that was really 104 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:39.839 interesting about that too. You also have to remember in 105 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:44.319 a lot of golf tournaments, let's even in professional tournaments, 106 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:49.360 it wasn't a question of the top players in the field. 107 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:51.959 Everybody in the field who made the cut got a paycheck. 108 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:56.120 It wasn't that way at all. If you finished outside 109 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:58.800 the top I don't know. If you finished outside the 110 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:04.399 top twenty, you didn't make anything. And even if you 111 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.240 finished in the you know, tied for twentieth, you might 112 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:10.000 make fifty dollars, one hundred dollars. 113 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.000 Yeah, exactly, it wasn't going to pay your expenses for 114 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:13.000 the week, that's for sure. 115 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.680 No, No, That's why the Masters was always a very 116 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.800 radical tournament, and that was any professional who teed it 117 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:24.000 up got a check. And there were a lot of 118 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:28.279 things about the Masters that were absolutely radical because that 119 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:32.120 never really sat well with my grandfather that professionals were 120 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:38.439 treated so, as he would say, shabbily by the golfing establishment. 121 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:42.639 So when he created the Masters, he wanted to make 122 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:47.319 sure that he wanted to make sure that the professionals 123 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.319 were treated well, that they were able to come into 124 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.920 the clubhouse, that nobody got entered on the scoreboard differently 125 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:58.720 just because of their status within the game, and he 126 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:01.040 wanted to make sure that everybody out a check. Now, 127 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.480 some of that was driven by the fact that this 128 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:07.040 is a tournament that's being held in Augusta and early 129 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.240 at this point, originally in March, and so he had 130 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:14.279 to do something to get their interests to come. But 131 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:16.360 it also had to do too with a lot of 132 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:21.360 his own sense of fairness. But yeah, but golf in 133 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:25.360 the twenties, the amateur game in many ways was it. 134 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.240 I mean, I'll give you an idea. In nineteen twenty nine, 135 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.199 my grandfather went out to play in the US Amateur 136 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:33.879 not too far from you, in Pebble Beach, and it 137 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:36.240 was the first time the Amateur had ever been contested 138 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:40.200 west of the Mississippi, and that was nineteen twenty nine, 139 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.200 and he decided that, you know, back then, of course, 140 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.200 if you're going to it's not like you hop on 141 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:47.679 a jet and go out there. You have to take 142 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:50.200 a train. And he was planning on being on the 143 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.879 West coast for a couple of weeks, and so he 144 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:58.679 had made arrangements to go play the opening round at 145 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:02.399 Pasa Tiempo. But any rate he goes out to Pebble Beach, 146 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:05.799 he's expected to go through that field like a hot 147 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.320 knife through butter. And instead, in the very first round, 148 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:13.080 he was defeated by somebody that nobody had ever heard of. 149 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.759 A guy named Johnny Goodman beat him in the first round. 150 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:20.320 Nobody had ever heard of Johnny Goodman. Well four years 151 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.919 later they would because Johnny Goodman in nineteen thirty three 152 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.639 became the last amateur to ever win the United States Open. 153 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.759 So that gives you an idea as to just how 154 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:36.519 good the amateur game was. And you know, bub never 155 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:41.000 really had any desire to turn professional. One of the 156 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.399 reasons was that he used to just say to sort 157 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:47.000 of shut the conversation up is he would just say, well, 158 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:48.639 you know, there is no money in the pro game. 159 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.000 I could just do better by being a lawyer and this, 160 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:52.919 that and the other, but I had no money in 161 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:55.600 the program. Walter Hagen used to say, yeah, that's nice. 162 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:59.279 If Bob Jones had turned pro, there would have been Yes, 163 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:00.360 that would have changed Hiller. 164 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:04.720 He was well, he was incredibly popular in American culture, right, 165 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.120 I mean, wasn't wasn't Bobby Jones the first person to 166 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:10.840 ever receive a ticker tape parade in New York City, 167 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:13.559 A first golfer, the first golfer. 168 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.759 Yeah, and he's the only golfer to receive two two 169 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.159 of them, Yes, one in twenty six and one in 170 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.840 thirty amazing. Yes, and in fact, in fact, for a 171 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:29.320 long time he was the only individual to receive two 172 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.240 John Glynn became the second and of course John Glenn 173 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.240 had to orbit the Earth a few times to do that. 174 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:42.720 Bub just had to hit a little golf ball. 175 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.799 Virginia Earth twice round. 176 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:50.759 Yes exactly, but yeah, so, but no he was People 177 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:55.039 just do not well think of it this way. In history, 178 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:59.519 there have only been three people that have really moved 179 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.799 the knee in terms of the popularity of the game 180 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:06.679 of golf. The first one was Bobby Jones, the second 181 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:10.879 was Arnold Palmer, and the third was Tiger Woods. They 182 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.960 brought they both brought tons of people into the game. 183 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:19.399 There would be There was so much interest that after 184 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.720 Bub retired after winning the Grand Slam in nineteen thirty, 185 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.399 the USGA begged him to please come out of retirement 186 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:31.240 and play in the nineteen thirty one US Open because 187 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:34.080 they were terrified what would happen to the gate without 188 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:34.720 him there. 189 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.799 Right, And it's a good thing they didn't have TV then. 190 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:42.320 Well that but the nineteen thirty US Amateur, which was 191 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.240 at Marion, which is where they finished up the Grand Slam. 192 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:50.399 That was the first, I believe, one of the first, 193 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:57.000 one of the first golf tournaments to ever be broadcast 194 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:01.360 live on radio and They had like two or three 195 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:10.200 kids who literally would just will unfold this cable all 196 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.759 over the golf course. So that's somebody with them microphone. 197 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:16.799 Oh my, yes, it's not as if it was like 198 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.159 Ronald Reagan doing baseball games off of a newswire right. 199 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.120 No, No, they were. 200 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:25.879 Somebody actually there with a wired microphone running through the course. 201 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:29.159 Yes, Grantlin Rice was actually the one who did it, 202 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.159 and he had a bunch of people. He had a 203 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.919 bunch of people following him and Marian. I mean, this 204 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:37.840 is for the United States Amateur and this is in 205 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:40.399 nineteen thirty, you know, you're talking about the early stages 206 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:45.759 of the depression, and there were still fifteen thousand people 207 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.000 that came out to watch that final round at Marion. 208 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.679 I mean, it's just it's just people just don't They 209 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:59.440 just don't even get how big a deal Bobby Jones was. 210 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.559 And so you know when Warner Brothers hired him to 211 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.559 do those instructional videos, which are still pretty darn good. 212 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:09.720 One of the reasons that made them so popular, that 213 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.240 was so popular was because nobody most people knew who 214 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:18.559 Bobby Jones was. And they knew who Bobby Jones was, 215 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:21.159 but they'd never seen him hit a golf ball, right. 216 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.799 They've never seen him as it was in broadcast, maybe 217 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:26.000 a photograph, but they'd never seen him hit a. 218 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:28.279 Ball, never saw him swinging. And then now all of 219 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.879 a sudden, you could go to your local movie theater 220 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.919 and Bobby Jones will hit golf balls and you'll get 221 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.440 to see just how good he was. And it was 222 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.120 really is really quite an incredible thing. But I mean, 223 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.000 but there's also an interesting side to that as well, 224 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.159 because you know he, as I said, I mean, nobody 225 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:50.759 ever really really recognized him because it wasn't like the 226 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.000 twenty four to seven news cycle, right. And so when 227 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.840 when they did the second ticker tape parade in New 228 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:00.320 York City that night, Bub was out on this on 229 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.639 the street out in front of the Waldorf Astoria, and 230 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.399 they were sweeping up the street in front of him, 231 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.120 and Bub walked up to this policeman standing there in 232 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:12.200 one of those big New York overcoats, and Bub lit 233 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.600 a cigarette and he said to the copy he said, so, so, officer, 234 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.240 what's all the fuss about. And the policeman just looked 235 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.120 at him and said, Ah, it's just a parade for 236 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:21.279 some damn golfer. 237 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.759 When we talk about amateur golfers and professional golfers in 238 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:34.879 those days, in the nineteen twenties thirties, so the amateur 239 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.879 golfers were the competitive ones. The professional golfers were the 240 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:42.960 golf instructors that were working at courses. But I'm sure 241 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.519 that they also made a lot of their living, as 242 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.639 quote unquote professional golfers through gambling with people. 243 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.480 Oh most definitely, how did. 244 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.600 That sit with Bub? I mean, because the way you 245 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:03.240 present him as being the proper Atlanta Southern gentleman, I 246 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.440 can't imagine he was a big fan of the gambling 247 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:05.919 part of it. 248 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.559 He wasn't a big fan of gambling on his own, 249 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.799 but he was. Bub was very much. Bub very much 250 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.639 had a laissez faire attitude towards what other people did. 251 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.000 I also have to remember, too, that two of his 252 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.000 dearest friends were people who were not always held up 253 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:25.039 as paragons of virtue, one of course, being Walter Hagen 254 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:32.919 and the other being Ty Cobb, the George Peach. And yeah, 255 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:38.799 so Bub was Bub was, actually he was. He was 256 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:42.279 very What other people wanted to do as long as 257 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.320 they were pleasant company was fine with him. 258 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:53.759 Interesting, Okay, yeah, okay. We talk about the amateur play 259 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:56.879 and how Tiger changed the game, and but Tiger was 260 00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.519 amateur champ for three years in a row. He was 261 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:06.480 recently on the podcast We had Steve Scott on and 262 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:13.879 he tells the story about in Tiger's third championship, Amateur Championship, 263 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.600 they were paired together as the final group, and he 264 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:22.240 tells a great story about about helping Tiger move his 265 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:23.879 ball marker. 266 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:27.960 Tiger was getting ready to putt, is what it was. 267 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.200 So you know, you remember that event. 268 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.960 I saw it on TV. I didn't see you couldn't 269 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.360 hear it, but I mean if you were watching the broadcast, 270 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:45.559 you saw it, right. But it was just Tiger had 271 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.399 marked his ball and had moved his mark because it 272 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:54.720 was in Steve's line, and Tiger wasn't obviously thinking, and 273 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.720 he went to just put his ball back down and 274 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.480 he was about to pick up his mark, and Steve, 275 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.960 in probably one of the greatest displays of sportsmanship I've 276 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.559 ever seen, said Tiger, you need to move your mark back. 277 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:10.960 That's the name of his book, it. 278 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:16.079 Is, And Tiger was like, oh, thanks, and he moved 279 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:19.599 the mark back and then made the putt. 280 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:21.640 To make the putt to win. 281 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:22.720 Correct. 282 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.839 If he didn't tell him, it would have been a 283 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:27.759 two stroke penalty and Steve would have won. 284 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.079 Well, it would have been Actually, no, it wouldn't have 285 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:31.440 been it was match play. It would have been an 286 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.039 automatic loss of hole. Oh okay, it would have been 287 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.599 a loss of hole same but same outcome. Yes, yeah, 288 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.960 you're right. It would have been two strokes if it 289 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.799 were stroke play, right, okay, but match play would have 290 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.279 just been loss of hole. But the outcome that would 291 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.559 have been the same effect. Yes, Tiger, you need to 292 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:51.880 move you. I wrote Steve a letter and I said, 293 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:54.640 you know, that may be one of the finest acts 294 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:59.519 of sportsmanship that I have ever seen. You did, yes, 295 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:05.880 And he, in fact, Steve sent me a copy of 296 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.599 his book that it was written by It was ghost 297 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.799 written with well, Trip Bowden wrote it with him. Trip's 298 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:14.720 a very dear friend of mine and also as the 299 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:16.759 son of a fellow member of mine at Sage Valley 300 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:18.200 Golf Club in South Carolina. 301 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.960 Okay, okay, yeah, amazing story. 302 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.400 It's a small world, yeah, but. 303 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:28.799 It's and for everybody to know. Here's a great tip 304 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.759 that came out of that is that when you move 305 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.559 your ball flip your marker over. 306 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:40.000 Yes, you know who taught me that was there was 307 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.440 a guy, a pro, a pro that I knew when 308 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.880 I was a teenager and had aspirations hopefully playing playing 309 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.599 golf competitively. I never did. I've never been competitive in golf. 310 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:58.440 Have fun. But I mean he told me. He told me, 311 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:01.720 he said, yeah, always make sure mark your ball with 312 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.559 a quarter or whatever coin you use, and mark it 313 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.319 heads up, and then when you move, have to move 314 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:13.000 your marker, flip it to tails so that you can 315 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.640 you will always know by looking at that quarter or 316 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.640 that coin whether you need to move your mark he said. 317 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.160 Of course. Then the real trick is remembering where do 318 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:23.200 you have to move it too? 319 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:26.839 Hopefully we're lining it up. But I mean, even the 320 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.319 people that I've told that tip to since I've learned 321 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:32.480 it from Steve was like, everyone's like, oh, that's a 322 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.480 great tip. It's one of those tips that it's like, oh, 323 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:40.119 so simple. It falls in with the never if you 324 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.559 have to take you're going from your golf cart path 325 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:45.839 only whatever, and you're going up to the green and 326 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.240 you have to bring a wedge with you, you never 327 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:50.480 just put your wedge down. You put it down between 328 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:52.680 the flag, yes, and your cart. 329 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:54.359 Yes, so you. 330 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.599 Never go to the next toll going I don't have 331 00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:58.759 my wedge anymore. 332 00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.559 Right, that's right. 333 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.400 That's another one. That's great tips that I've learned just 334 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.319 from having these kind of conversations. Yes, so I want 335 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.400 to know, I want to go back about what stories 336 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:12.720 do you have? And it's my favorite part of this year. 337 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.839 Stories you have about Bub and Ty Cobb. 338 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.240 Well, they were just very very good friends. You know, 339 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:24.599 they were both from Georgia. They frequently would go hunting 340 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:29.240 in South Georgia together Ty Cobb. At one point, I 341 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.400 forget what tournament it was, but is one of the 342 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:36.559 national championships. And Cobb was following my grandfather and they 343 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.640 came onto this par three and there was like four 344 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:44.440 groups waiting on this par three. And so when Cobb 345 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:48.000 got up to the tee, he found my grandfather just 346 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:51.839 sitting on the ground and he chewed my grandfather out. 347 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.839 He said, you never sit when you're in competition. It's 348 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:57.880 going to tighten up your it's going to tighten up 349 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.079 your hip muscles, it's going to kill your rotation and 350 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.079 you won't get that back for two or three holes. 351 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.960 And so Bub always made sure after that that he 352 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.880 never would he never would sit down. 353 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:11.880 Uh. 354 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:13.960 You know, Cobb was one of these guys, though he 355 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:20.079 actually got a much worse reputation than he really deserved. 356 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.960 He he me for being a racist asshole. 357 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.960 Yeah, there's actually been a couple of really interesting books 358 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:34.119 that actually say that that really wasn't true. Really, a 359 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:39.680 lot of this was the image that Cobb wanted to portray, 360 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.920 for example, like that, yeah that actually like like the 361 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.319 things about like on the baseball diamond, He actually was 362 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:54.319 very fine sportsman, even though he would do stuff like 363 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:54.960 you know. 364 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:56.839 Back then they with his cleats up. 365 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.559 Well, but not even that, wait, well they all did that. 366 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:03.960 For What he would do was they would show pick. 367 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.799 These guys would like look over in the dugout when 368 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.200 Ty Cobb was in the dugout and he had his 369 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.480 shoe off and he had a file in his hand 370 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:20.079 and he was filing the spikes. So the message being 371 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.640 he's coming in cleets up and those things are sharp. 372 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:28.400 Exactly, they have traction, Definitely. 373 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:33.000 They definitely had traction. But yeah, but you know, bub 374 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.480 bub Bub definitely had some friends who qualified as characters. 375 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:39.359 Oh I bet well he was. 376 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.079 He was in his own way. 377 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:47.000 Yeah, you know you were his grandson. He wasn't playing golf, 378 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:51.319 he wasn't well as you were conscious. How do you 379 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.400 know this stuff? I mean, I never called you out 380 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.880 on these stories, going, wait a minute, how do you know? 381 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.240 Here's the beauty of it. Here's the beauty of it. 382 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.920 You know, you know, Fred will never know. I could 383 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.880 just be making it all up. Who's going to call 384 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:12.440 me out? Right? Actually, I've been very lucky. I've spent 385 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.839 a lot of time talking with people that knew him well. 386 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.079 And there are probably some folks. I think of one 387 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.079 of my dearest friends, Sidney Matthew, who's a great golf historian, 388 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:27.240 a fantastic lawyer down in Tallahassee. And Sydney and I 389 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:31.759 Sidney probably knows more about my grandfather than I ever will, 390 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.480 and since told me a lot of this stuff. And 391 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:37.359 I said, well, you need to tell this story. And 392 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:42.440 Sydney would say to me, no, you do, he said, 393 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:48.440 for me, coming from me, it means nothing, But you 394 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.240 need to tell the stories. And he said, I'm going 395 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:53.759 to tell you a little secret. He said, I'm going 396 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.400 to tell you a little secret. If you don't tell 397 00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:59.880 the stories, then you're leaving it for somebody else too, 398 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.680 who may not have the same love for your grandfather 399 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.599 that you do. I've never really forgotten that, and so 400 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:14.839 I see that very much as a responsibility that I have. 401 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.599