Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: My name's Roy Jeomey.
Speaker 1: I live in Redondo Beach, California.
Speaker 2: I'm playing golf with Fred at Rancho Park. This is
Golf Smarter, Episode nine hundred and ninety four.
Speaker 1: I've been very lucky. I've spent a lot of time
talking with people that knew him well, and there are
probably some folks. I think of one of my dearest friends,
Sidney Matthew, who's a great golf history down in Tallahassee.
Sidney probably knows more about my grandfather than I ever will.
And I said, well, you need to tell this story,
and Sidney would say to me, no, you do coming
from me, it means nothing. He said, I'm going to
tell you a little secret. If you don't tell the stories,
then you're leaving it for somebody else too, who may
not have the same love for your grandfather that you do.
I've never really forgotten that, and so I see that
very much as a responsibility. I've often said that one
of the goals is to make my grandfather come alive
in color for a new generation, and what that means
is seeing him not just as somebody about whom we
tell funny stories, is somebody who did great things on
the golf course, and all of those things are true,
but as somebody that was a real flesh and blood
human being who had many, many great personality traits and
many that were not so great. And that's important because
if the man becomes a real, honest to God human being,
then it kind of makes what he did even more special.
Speaker 2: Growing up with the name Bobby Jones comes with pressure
and pride with grandson doctor Bob Jones. Four. This is
Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf
minds to help you lower your score and raise your
golf IQ.
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Bob.
Speaker 1: It's great to be with you, as always, Fred, it's
been too long.
Speaker 2: It's been a year. Well, no, I think we did
something mid year. Did we do something mid year with
doctor Joe parent or two years ago?
Speaker 1: That was two years ago?
Speaker 2: Actually, oh, that's when I came back from my Yeah, yeah,
I introduced you guys when I came back and then yeah,
I don't remember when it was, but yeah, maybe it's
been a year since we've talked to each other. Yeah, Well,
on the podcast, we communicate with each other on a
regular basis because we've become friends and I'm so touched
and honored by your friendship.
Speaker 1: Well that goes both ways, Fred, So thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you. So. Now you know, like this week, as
always when we talk, it's a week of the Masters. Yes,
we're your grandfather, Bob Bobby Jones, created the event, built
the golf course, and the legacy continues to grow. Yes,
and actually it's coming up to a really big event.
The timing of it for your grandfather, correct.
Speaker 1: Well it is, well, it is. You know. One of
the things that's happened starting in twenty twenty three is
we've come up on the one hundredth anniversary of all
of my grandfather's major championship wins. In twenty twenty three,
we celebrated one hundred year of his one hundred years
of his first United States Open victory at Inwood Country
Club outside of New York, and then in last year
was a one hundredth anniversary of his twenty four US
Amateur win at Marion. This year will mark one hundredth
anniversary of the US Amateur victory at Oakmont. Interestingly enough,
that is the only time in US Amateur history where
the finals have been contested by two members of the
same club.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yes, Bubb defeated Watt's Gunn, who was also a member
of the Atlanta Athletic Club, and to win his second
consecutive United States Amateur in twenty five. Another little tidbit
on that that people forget Bub, but Bub beat Watts
pretty badly in that final, and of course he beat
everybody pretty badly the final, but nobody remembers is Watts played.
Remember this is nineteen twenty five. Now, Watts played like
ninety holes of golf at even par on Oakmont, which then,
as now, is just a staggering statistic. Yeah, absolutely staggering statistic.
Speaker 2: Huh Yeah, that's really remarkable. And help us understand, give
us a perspective on how in the days that we're
talking about, the early twenties, how important amateur golf was
to the game itself, because it's radically changed. It really
changed in this century with Tiger.
Speaker 1: In this century. Yes, amateur golf in the early really
the amateur golf up until probably the nineteen seventies, amateur
golf was very much its own game, and it was
not necessarily considered to be a feeding ground for the
professional for the professional game in the nineteen twenties when
my grandfather played, the people who played in the amateur
game were every bit as good as the professionals. Professionals
in those days were mainly people who had club jobs
who would play in tournaments to supplement their income, and
the amateurs, and in fact the amateurs for example, if
you were an amateur and I was a professional, you
would be listed on the score sheet as mister Fred Green.
I would simply be listed on the score sheet as Bob.
Speaker 2: Jones because of an I get that, because you.
Speaker 1: Were an answer that's correct, you would get mister I
would not. And here's the interesting thing. In the United Kingdom,
I believe, all the way into the nineteen fifties, I
think professionals were not allowed in the clubhouse at all.
They would have to change their shoes in the parking lot.
Whoa yes. And one of the things that was really
interesting about that too. You also have to remember in
a lot of golf tournaments, let's even in professional tournaments,
it wasn't a question of the top players in the field.
Everybody in the field who made the cut got a paycheck.
It wasn't that way at all. If you finished outside
the top I don't know. If you finished outside the
top twenty, you didn't make anything. And even if you
finished in the you know, tied for twentieth, you might
make fifty dollars, one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it wasn't going to pay your expenses for
the week, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: No, No, That's why the Masters was always a very
radical tournament, and that was any professional who teed it
up got a check. And there were a lot of
things about the Masters that were absolutely radical because that
never really sat well with my grandfather that professionals were
treated so, as he would say, shabbily by the golfing establishment.
So when he created the Masters, he wanted to make
sure that he wanted to make sure that the professionals
were treated well, that they were able to come into
the clubhouse, that nobody got entered on the scoreboard differently
just because of their status within the game, and he
wanted to make sure that everybody out a check. Now,
some of that was driven by the fact that this
is a tournament that's being held in Augusta and early
at this point, originally in March, and so he had
to do something to get their interests to come. But
it also had to do too with a lot of
his own sense of fairness. But yeah, but golf in
the twenties, the amateur game in many ways was it.
I mean, I'll give you an idea. In nineteen twenty nine,
my grandfather went out to play in the US Amateur
not too far from you, in Pebble Beach, and it
was the first time the Amateur had ever been contested
west of the Mississippi, and that was nineteen twenty nine,
and he decided that, you know, back then, of course,
if you're going to it's not like you hop on
a jet and go out there. You have to take
a train. And he was planning on being on the
West coast for a couple of weeks, and so he
had made arrangements to go play the opening round at
Pasa Tiempo. But any rate he goes out to Pebble Beach,
he's expected to go through that field like a hot
knife through butter. And instead, in the very first round,
he was defeated by somebody that nobody had ever heard of.
A guy named Johnny Goodman beat him in the first round.
Nobody had ever heard of Johnny Goodman. Well four years
later they would because Johnny Goodman in nineteen thirty three
became the last amateur to ever win the United States Open.
So that gives you an idea as to just how
good the amateur game was. And you know, bub never
really had any desire to turn professional. One of the
reasons was that he used to just say to sort
of shut the conversation up is he would just say, well,
you know, there is no money in the pro game.
I could just do better by being a lawyer and this,
that and the other, but I had no money in
the program. Walter Hagen used to say, yeah, that's nice.
If Bob Jones had turned pro, there would have been Yes,
that would have changed Hiller.
Speaker 2: He was well, he was incredibly popular in American culture, right,
I mean, wasn't wasn't Bobby Jones the first person to
ever receive a ticker tape parade in New York City,
A first golfer, the first golfer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's the only golfer to receive two two
of them, Yes, one in twenty six and one in
thirty amazing. Yes, and in fact, in fact, for a
long time he was the only individual to receive two
John Glynn became the second and of course John Glenn
had to orbit the Earth a few times to do that.
Bub just had to hit a little golf ball.
Speaker 2: Virginia Earth twice round.
Speaker 1: Yes exactly, but yeah, so, but no he was People
just do not well think of it this way. In history,
there have only been three people that have really moved
the knee in terms of the popularity of the game
of golf. The first one was Bobby Jones, the second
was Arnold Palmer, and the third was Tiger Woods. They
brought they both brought tons of people into the game.
There would be There was so much interest that after
Bub retired after winning the Grand Slam in nineteen thirty,
the USGA begged him to please come out of retirement
and play in the nineteen thirty one US Open because
they were terrified what would happen to the gate without
him there.
Speaker 2: Right, And it's a good thing they didn't have TV then.
Speaker 1: Well that but the nineteen thirty US Amateur, which was
at Marion, which is where they finished up the Grand Slam.
That was the first, I believe, one of the first,
one of the first golf tournaments to ever be broadcast
live on radio and They had like two or three
kids who literally would just will unfold this cable all
over the golf course. So that's somebody with them microphone.
Speaker 2: Oh my, yes, it's not as if it was like
Ronald Reagan doing baseball games off of a newswire right.
Speaker 1: No, No, they were.
Speaker 2: Somebody actually there with a wired microphone running through the course.
Speaker 1: Yes, Grantlin Rice was actually the one who did it,
and he had a bunch of people. He had a
bunch of people following him and Marian. I mean, this
is for the United States Amateur and this is in
nineteen thirty, you know, you're talking about the early stages
of the depression, and there were still fifteen thousand people
that came out to watch that final round at Marion.
I mean, it's just it's just people just don't They
just don't even get how big a deal Bobby Jones was.
And so you know when Warner Brothers hired him to
do those instructional videos, which are still pretty darn good.
One of the reasons that made them so popular, that
was so popular was because nobody most people knew who
Bobby Jones was. And they knew who Bobby Jones was,
but they'd never seen him hit a golf ball, right.
Speaker 2: They've never seen him as it was in broadcast, maybe
a photograph, but they'd never seen him hit a.
Speaker 1: Ball, never saw him swinging. And then now all of
a sudden, you could go to your local movie theater
and Bobby Jones will hit golf balls and you'll get
to see just how good he was. And it was
really is really quite an incredible thing. But I mean,
but there's also an interesting side to that as well,
because you know he, as I said, I mean, nobody
ever really really recognized him because it wasn't like the
twenty four to seven news cycle, right. And so when
when they did the second ticker tape parade in New
York City that night, Bub was out on this on
the street out in front of the Waldorf Astoria, and
they were sweeping up the street in front of him,
and Bub walked up to this policeman standing there in
one of those big New York overcoats, and Bub lit
a cigarette and he said to the copy he said, so, so, officer,
what's all the fuss about. And the policeman just looked
at him and said, Ah, it's just a parade for
some damn golfer.
Speaker 2: When we talk about amateur golfers and professional golfers in
those days, in the nineteen twenties thirties, so the amateur
golfers were the competitive ones. The professional golfers were the
golf instructors that were working at courses. But I'm sure
that they also made a lot of their living, as
quote unquote professional golfers through gambling with people.
Speaker 1: Oh most definitely, how did.
Speaker 2: That sit with Bub? I mean, because the way you
present him as being the proper Atlanta Southern gentleman, I
can't imagine he was a big fan of the gambling
part of it.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a big fan of gambling on his own,
but he was. Bub was very much. Bub very much
had a laissez faire attitude towards what other people did.
I also have to remember, too, that two of his
dearest friends were people who were not always held up
as paragons of virtue, one of course, being Walter Hagen
and the other being Ty Cobb, the George Peach. And yeah,
so Bub was Bub was, actually he was. He was
very What other people wanted to do as long as
they were pleasant company was fine with him.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, yeah, okay. We talk about the amateur play
and how Tiger changed the game, and but Tiger was
amateur champ for three years in a row. He was
recently on the podcast We had Steve Scott on and
he tells the story about in Tiger's third championship, Amateur Championship,
they were paired together as the final group, and he
tells a great story about about helping Tiger move his
ball marker.
Speaker 1: Tiger was getting ready to putt, is what it was.
Speaker 2: So you know, you remember that event.
Speaker 1: I saw it on TV. I didn't see you couldn't
hear it, but I mean if you were watching the broadcast,
you saw it, right. But it was just Tiger had
marked his ball and had moved his mark because it
was in Steve's line, and Tiger wasn't obviously thinking, and
he went to just put his ball back down and
he was about to pick up his mark, and Steve,
in probably one of the greatest displays of sportsmanship I've
ever seen, said Tiger, you need to move your mark back.
Speaker 2: That's the name of his book, it.
Speaker 1: Is, And Tiger was like, oh, thanks, and he moved
the mark back and then made the putt.
Speaker 2: To make the putt to win.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: If he didn't tell him, it would have been a
two stroke penalty and Steve would have won.
Speaker 1: Well, it would have been Actually, no, it wouldn't have
been it was match play. It would have been an
automatic loss of hole. Oh okay, it would have been
a loss of hole same but same outcome. Yes, yeah,
you're right. It would have been two strokes if it
were stroke play, right, okay, but match play would have
just been loss of hole. But the outcome that would
have been the same effect. Yes, Tiger, you need to
move you. I wrote Steve a letter and I said,
you know, that may be one of the finest acts
of sportsmanship that I have ever seen. You did, yes,
And he, in fact, Steve sent me a copy of
his book that it was written by It was ghost
written with well, Trip Bowden wrote it with him. Trip's
a very dear friend of mine and also as the
son of a fellow member of mine at Sage Valley
Golf Club in South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, amazing story.
Speaker 1: It's a small world, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: It's and for everybody to know. Here's a great tip
that came out of that is that when you move
your ball flip your marker over.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know who taught me that was there was
a guy, a pro, a pro that I knew when
I was a teenager and had aspirations hopefully playing playing
golf competitively. I never did. I've never been competitive in golf.
Have fun. But I mean he told me. He told me,
he said, yeah, always make sure mark your ball with
a quarter or whatever coin you use, and mark it
heads up, and then when you move, have to move
your marker, flip it to tails so that you can
you will always know by looking at that quarter or
that coin whether you need to move your mark he said.
Of course. Then the real trick is remembering where do
you have to move it too?
Speaker 2: Hopefully we're lining it up. But I mean, even the
people that I've told that tip to since I've learned
it from Steve was like, everyone's like, oh, that's a
great tip. It's one of those tips that it's like, oh,
so simple. It falls in with the never if you
have to take you're going from your golf cart path
only whatever, and you're going up to the green and
you have to bring a wedge with you, you never
just put your wedge down. You put it down between
the flag, yes, and your cart.
Speaker 1: Yes, so you.
Speaker 2: Never go to the next toll going I don't have
my wedge anymore.
Speaker 1: Right, that's right.
Speaker 2: That's another one. That's great tips that I've learned just
from having these kind of conversations. Yes, so I want
to know, I want to go back about what stories
do you have? And it's my favorite part of this year.
Stories you have about Bub and Ty Cobb.
Speaker 1: Well, they were just very very good friends. You know,
they were both from Georgia. They frequently would go hunting
in South Georgia together Ty Cobb. At one point, I
forget what tournament it was, but is one of the
national championships. And Cobb was following my grandfather and they
came onto this par three and there was like four
groups waiting on this par three. And so when Cobb
got up to the tee, he found my grandfather just
sitting on the ground and he chewed my grandfather out.
He said, you never sit when you're in competition. It's
going to tighten up your it's going to tighten up
your hip muscles, it's going to kill your rotation and
you won't get that back for two or three holes.
And so Bub always made sure after that that he
never would he never would sit down.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, Cobb was one of these guys, though he
actually got a much worse reputation than he really deserved.
Speaker 2: He he me for being a racist asshole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's actually been a couple of really interesting books
that actually say that that really wasn't true. Really, a
lot of this was the image that Cobb wanted to portray,
for example, like that, yeah that actually like like the
things about like on the baseball diamond, He actually was
very fine sportsman, even though he would do stuff like
you know.
Speaker 2: Back then they with his cleats up.
Speaker 1: Well, but not even that, wait, well they all did that.
For What he would do was they would show pick.
These guys would like look over in the dugout when
Ty Cobb was in the dugout and he had his
shoe off and he had a file in his hand
and he was filing the spikes. So the message being
he's coming in cleets up and those things are sharp.
Speaker 2: Exactly, they have traction, Definitely.
Speaker 1: They definitely had traction. But yeah, but you know, bub
bub Bub definitely had some friends who qualified as characters.
Speaker 2: Oh I bet well he was.
Speaker 1: He was in his own way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you were his grandson. He wasn't playing golf,
he wasn't well as you were conscious. How do you
know this stuff? I mean, I never called you out
on these stories, going, wait a minute, how do you know?
Speaker 1: Here's the beauty of it. Here's the beauty of it.
You know, you know, Fred will never know. I could
just be making it all up. Who's going to call
me out? Right? Actually, I've been very lucky. I've spent
a lot of time talking with people that knew him well.
And there are probably some folks. I think of one
of my dearest friends, Sidney Matthew, who's a great golf historian,
a fantastic lawyer down in Tallahassee. And Sydney and I
Sidney probably knows more about my grandfather than I ever will,
and since told me a lot of this stuff. And
I said, well, you need to tell this story. And
Sydney would say to me, no, you do, he said,
for me, coming from me, it means nothing, But you
need to tell the stories. And he said, I'm going
to tell you a little secret. He said, I'm going
to tell you a little secret. If you don't tell
the stories, then you're leaving it for somebody else too,
who may not have the same love for your grandfather
that you do. I've never really forgotten that, and so
I see that very much as a responsibility that I have.
I've often said that one of the goals that I
would like is to make my grandfather come alive in
color for a new generation. And what that means is
seeing him not just as somebody about whom we tell
funny stories, somebody who did great things on the golf course,
which and all of those things are true, but as
somebody that was a real, flesh and blood human being
who had many, many great personality traits and many that
were not so great. And that's important because if you
make if the man becomes a real, honest to God
human being, then it kind of makes what he did
even even more special and certainly more important. So so
I take this response. I mean, I have fun with it,
but but it's serious because you know, I'm not getting
any younger, Fred, I'm going to be sixty eight in
another few months, and you know, you start, you get
you get to your late sixties, and you start thinking
about what's the legacy that I want to leave behind,
which I don't want to do anytime soon.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you talked about your feeling and getting
that advice about carrying on the legacy of your grandfather
and better for you to do it than somebody else.
When growing up in the Atlanta area with the name
Bobby Jones Bob Jones, was that difficult as a child
or was that did you feel like there was attention
on you? I don't want to ask too many questions
because I want to let you answer the question. But
about the attention, you know, positive negative? However, what was
that like for you?
Speaker 1: Well, it was difficult. First of all. I did not
grow up in the Atlanta area though, I grew up
in western Massachusetts. But I was born in nineteen fifty
seven and in the nineteen fifties and sixties, though it
really didn't matter where you grew up. If you had
a name like Bobby Jones, it was everybody knew that. Sure, yeah,
And there was always a certain amount of pressure that
came with it. I mean, number one, the pressure was
the question do you play golf? And you know, my father,
of course went through that same thing. And my dad
was actually a very fine player. He was a plus
three handicap at his peak, but you know, played in
three national amateurs and yet he always felt he was
a very second rate golfer. Well, yeah, compared to who
he was, you know, looking who he was compared to. Yes,
my handicap at its best got down to a minus three,
which is still not too shabby.
Speaker 2: No, but it's not too ere quality. But it's really impressive.
Speaker 1: It's comfortable, and up until a year and a half
ago it was always in single digits. But you know,
I mean I always thought of myself as just not
too terribly good. But again, of considering who I'm compared to,
I think I think it was much harder on my
dad than it was for me, but it was still
awfully intimidating on me. Like, for example, I for many
years could not play golf club play with clubs that
had my grandfather's signature on them because I just couldn't
look at it. It was too intimidating. So if I
got a club from Spalding that had the Jones logo
on it, I'd either have the decal put out on
the toe of the club where I couldn't see it,
or I would just have the top of the club
just made solid, solid in color. And you know that
eventually changed and I actually got to a point where
I would have I started using this back in the
old days. I was using Tony Penno woods. And first
thing I did when I'd get a penna that Pe
used to make clubs for McGregor. They were really wonderful
and I would make I would whenever I would get
a penna, the first thing I do is I'd have
it stripped down and then refinished and I would have
a Jones signature on top of them.
Speaker 2: Why because by that time I liked it ok.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to see my grandfather's name on it.
And the joke was the guy said, we you know,
really I shouldn't do this because it's not a spalding
club and we shouldn't put a spalding sticker on a
non spalding club. But considering that's your name too, we
can just say we're putting your name club. So, yeah,
it was difficult, But did you As I've gotten older,
it's gotten easier.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Were there ever times in your life where people
tried to take advantage or get in close because oh
I can maybe I can get somewhere because the name
is Bobby Jones Or did you ever feel that was
happening to you?
Speaker 1: It does, that happened. But you know, one of the
things growing up is that in my family is that
we are My father and my mother were very good
at training my sisters in me how to deal with
situations like that and to deal with them graciously and
so that kind of that that helped a lot. So,
you know, so generally speaking, like we were always taught.
You know, you're going to have people who come out
of the woodwork every February and they're only coming out
for one reason.
Speaker 2: Tickets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean it's okay, I don't mind,
you know, I don't, but you know, you know when
it's going to happen. You've I guess this is so
far we've made it. I guess about half an hour
into this, I've yet to be called golf royalty, but
I guess.
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm going there.
Speaker 1: You know, you're going there. One of the things is
is that we were taught very definitely how do you
conduct yourself in those circumstances. How do you learn.
Speaker 3: How to navigate the fact that you've got a first
degree blood relation who is to this day one hundred
years after his greatest accomplishments and one hundred and what
this year, it's one hundred and twenty three years after
his birth.
Speaker 1: Is still larger than life. How do you deal with that?
You know? And I'm very fortunate in that I had
good parents who taught me how to do that and
how to do that with some grace and decorum in
a way that leaves people comfortable having dealt with me.
And I'm also very fortunate in that I've got some
good friends. I'm thinking particularly a friend of mine, Charlie Yates,
very here in Atlanta. You know, Charlie and I we
share an awful lot of background together, and uh, you know,
we have a lot of trust with each other because
you know, he's part of one of the great GalF
families of the state of Georgia, and uh we we've
had to contend with a lot of the same stuff
over the years. So I don't wish I could do
it half as well as Charlie does.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, as we're recording this weeks before it's being published,
and it's being published as we I always want to.
Speaker 1: Do, actually recording this on Bub's birthday.
Speaker 2: Oh Saint Patrick's day. That's awesome. Happy birthday, Bob, Happy birthday. Great. Well,
it's being well being published this the week of the Masters,
as I do every year because it's perfect to have
you on at that time, and interestingly enough, this year,
as this show is being published, I am in Atlanta.
I am actually in Georgia. Yes, I am going with
a friend who invited me to go to the Masters.
We're hoping to go practice around Wednesday and go to
a tournament round on Thursday, play golf the rest of
the week. But he gets his tickets from a mutual
friend of his, Charlie Yates Junior. So talk about it
all coming back around.
Speaker 1: Me tell you, let me tell you Charlie is. Charlie
is an incredible guy. He besides a very successful career,
Charlie is probably he probably wouldn't like me saying this,
but I mean, Charlie has done so much in support
of the YMCA here in Atlanta. And then one of
the things that he has done that is he has
been absolutely instrumental, in no pun intended, in bringing about
this renaissance that the Atlanta Opera has experienced over the
last ten or fifteen years, to the point now to
where the Atlanta Opera is considered one of the ten
finest opera houses in the United States. And that's to
a large extent, Charlie would never agree with this, but
that to a large extent is due to his absolutely
relentless work in developing helping develop that company.
Speaker 2: Well, Charlie Yates Senior, Yes, has a history in professional golf. Correct,
I mean we're talking about Charlie late Charlie Yates like
people were assuming people know who that is. But explain
Charlie's legacy.
Speaker 1: Well, Charlie Yates, he didn't like being called Charlie Yates senior.
But Charlie Yates was a very very fine amateur golfer
who grew up at the Atlanta Athletic Club. And in fact,
he used to say how he used to sneak under
the fence at the Athletic Club to go watch Bobby
Jones play golf. And he said that the highlight of
his time as a young man was when he would
go into the when he would go into the clubhouse
and Bob Jones would buy him a bottle of Coca Cola, or,
as Charlie used to call it, the great Elixir of
Atlanta and Charlie became a really outstanding amateur golfer. He
won the NCAA title when he was at Tech. He
won the British Amateur in nineteen thirty eight at Royal
Troon and in fact he played in the Walker Cup
that year and unfortunately the United States team lost the
Walker Cup. And I believe it was at the Old
Course in St. Andrews. And when Charlie was brought up
at the trophy presentation, before the trophy was presented, Charlie
led everybody. He said, there's just one thing I can
add to all of this, and he started singing the
old Scottish song A Wee Doc and Doris, which is
in Scottish, which is Scottish for a week, a small
Scotch and soda. And several people had said that Charlie
Charlie got more mileage out of A Wee Doc and
Doris than Bing Crosby did out of White Christmas. But
Charlie was a member of Augusta National almost from the
very beginning. He was the he handled the press for decades.
So in addition to being an outstanding golfer, he also
made great contributions to the game of golf. He won
the Bob Jones Award one year, for which the USGA
gifts for sportsmanship. But even more than that were the
contributions that he made to the city of Atlanta. Not
the least I mean, good Lord, not the least of
which was he was instrumental in the development of the
Woodroff Arts Center, which is no small achievement. I mean,
in many, many ways, Charlie is one of those people
that which Atlanta is what it is today, and his
son has continued in that same legacy. It's really quite
it's really I'm kind of amazed they let me hang
on to them like a pilot fish.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because you talked about how your father
being the son of the famous person at such a
difficult time, at much more difficult time than you did,
carrying that name, and so that puts Charlie, your friend
Charlie into that position of being the first generation removed
from the fame. Did he do you know if he's
had those struggles as well, or because he.
Speaker 1: Has, it hasn't shown. So if he has, he's certainly learned,
he's certainly mastered the art well. Much like my grandfather
said to a young man at Pasa Tiempo when he said, Bob,
how do you play in front of all these people?
Don't you get nervous? And Bub looked back at him
and said, I get horribly nervous. The trick is not
to let them see it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna dig into this a little bit deeper. And
I appreciate you answering, and if you don't, we'll move on.
So we we we talk about you know, you being
third generation but also being raised with how to handle yourself.
And I'm sure I don't remember you have siblings. I
do you do have siblings? You have probably have cousins
as well. All right, so you and and we all
kind of grew up in the rebellious sixties and seventies.
So did everybody buy into this? Of your siblings and cousins?
Did you all buy into this? Yes, we understand how
we're supposed to carry ourselves. Or were there son that's like, yep,
moving to California, go buy I don't want to be
part of this.
Speaker 1: Well, no, not to California necessarily, but we did have
people go well, my sister went to New York. But nonetheless,
when it came to having to do things that are
related to the family. Yes, we all bought into it.
One of the things that I've always thought was really
fascinating is that the seven of us in this generation sometimes,
like any family, we will fight like cats and dogs.
But when it comes to issues about our family business
or about our grandfather and his legacy, if you've spoken
to one of us, you've spoken to all of us.
It's really I don't know too many families that have
gotten two, you know, in the second generation, removed from
the person who was the famous person where you could
find that type of agreement. I just don't know of
too many, but we do so, Yeah, we do so.
Speaker 2: Right now, as I mentioned, I'm strolling the grounds of
Augusta National. I'm like freaking out, having a blast. I
already know this. This is weeks and events, and I know
that I'm going to be going out of my mind here,
especially going well, I don't have a camera. I need
a camera. No, sorry, you cannot.
Speaker 1: The most important thing is not a camera. It's a
credit card.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, go ahead, yeah right, Oh, that's my lifeline,
is what it is. Can you walk us all through,
because you know, getting to go to the Masters is
not something you could just go on stub hub and
buy tickets, and this is a very very tough ticket
to get A and B. It is the biggest week
of the PGA's year, no question about it.
Speaker 1: PGA Tour this week of the entire golf world.
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah. Now that it now that the golf world
is kind of moved beyond the PGA Tour, it is,
it is it, and I'd love it if you can
like give us a tour of what a week is
like and what your week is like at Augusta National.
Speaker 1: Well, it's been a long time since I've gone for
the entire week. Normally, I just go on the weekend
because I do this thing called work.
Speaker 2: Literally, I just go for the weekend. I know, come on,
you're going to the Masters every year anyway, But it's
work there.
Speaker 1: Well no, I mean I work during the week. No.
Speaker 2: I understand that you're talking to me from your office
right now and you're a psychoical clinical psychologists, right right, okay,
so but still the family work. Yes, this is what
you're doing when you're going to the Master.
Speaker 1: Very much, very much. Royalty is there and I appreciate that,
thank you. But you know, I think going to the Masters,
especially when people go for the first time. I think
the most important thing is just to take it in.
There are two ways to get into the Masters, legal ways,
I should say. One is that you get to drive
down Magnolia Lane. The second one, which is in many
ways as impressive, is you come in through the main
gate on the what would be the eastern side of
the property, which is probably where you'll come in. And
what happens is you go through the security and you
go underneath what used to be Berkman's Road, and then
you come up the other side of it into the sunlight,
and all of a sudden you are in. You're on
AUGUSTA National, and you'll see the press buildings on the left,
the press building on the left, which my dear friend
Martin Davis once said, that press building is so impressive.
He said, is what it is what God would have
built if he had the money. And you'll see just
buildings down the right side of your walkway and just
all like that, gleaming white with the dark dark green
shutter or black. They're so dark they're almost black and
it might be black now, and you'll just see that.
And as you walk down you'll see the practice tea
coming up on your left, and it's like the sense
of antisse a patient that just builds as you get closer.
And then you turn right and you go down into
the patron's pavilion. That's where you need your credit card,
by the way, and then you just go a little
bit farther and you walk underneath these trees, and then
all of a sudden there's that big main scoreboard on
the right and this vista of the golf course right
in front of you. And I always say to people,
just don't be in a hurry to get to the
golf course. Really savor every step that you take getting
to it, because there's nothing like it in the entire
world of sports. And then if you get there early
enough in the day, one of the things that I
would suggest you do, even before you do any retail therapy,
is walk down to Amen corner, especially before the players
start getting there, so you can just see it. So
you can just see it, and it's there. There is
no place in the entire golf world that is as
impressive as Augusta National in the springtime. It is it
is just there is nothing nothing like it. The other thing,
I mean, the other stuff is a little bit more practical.
I mean, if you're going to do any shopping, best
to do that in the middle of the day, when
the traffic is a little bit less. But one other
but that's who cares. Let me give you the big advice.
If you really want to see the golf course, best
way to see it walk it backwards. Oh, walk it
backwards so that you're not walking with like all of
a sudden you get caught up in a group and
you're like ten deep. You're constantly going against the grain,
and so you get to see more. And then there
are wonderful, wonderful grand stands through out where you get
to see multiple scenes from the same location. So I mean,
it's just if you just have like one or two
days to go, just I would just say, savor it.
The tendency is to get so anxious about it that
I got to see it all. Now you really don't,
You really don't. There are certain parts I like to see,
Like my favorite hole is the one probably not many
people's favorite, but on the front nine my whole. My
favorite hole is number five. What well, not so much now,
but it used to be the most strategically demanding golf
hole on the entire golf course and back back in
the seventies, particularly the approach into number five was I
mean really challenging. You could either, you know, vomb it
into the green or you could play a run up
shot into the green. I mean, the t shot was
really really demanding. Now that they've stretched the hole out
to where it's about eight zillion yards long, some of
that strategy has kind of gone away. And that's nothing
really bad. I mean, they've had to do it because
the game has just changed. But five is a great
one to see. My favorite hole in the back nine.
Most people might find this surprising, but strangely enough, my
favorite hole in the back nine is the only hole
on the entire golf course that doesn't have a bunker. Fourteen, right,
I love fourteen. It is the wildest hole because it's
got a putt. When they cut the pin on the
left hand side, on the back left, you can stand
and look at that putt. If you're right of that hole,
you can stand and look at that putt and you
will swear to me, Fred Green, this putt is moving
left right, but it doesn't it breaks right much, but
it does move right. Okay, incredibly challenged.
Speaker 2: So you just gave me an incredibly important view for
me to have as a tour guide. Yes, I was
asking about what's it like for you, Bob Jones the
fourth when you're there? Are you there as a fan
only or no?
Speaker 1: I'm there. I am there because the club is very
generous and make sure that my wife and I have
a very nice credential. But I'm also there because I mean,
I'm representing my grandfather and I'm representing my family, and
I never, I never try to forget that, and I
don't know that I could forget it even if I
if I could.
Speaker 2: Are there? Do they have official duties that they.
Speaker 1: No, No, no, they are perfectly content just to let
you come and just enjoy, and they provide wonderful credentials.
And we do have a wonderful time. And what's the
most important thing at Augusta, strangely enough, even more than
the golf course, is I get to see people that
I only see that one time of year, sure, and
yet I've seen them every year for forty five years.
Forty yeah, forty years. And sometimes you know, we're getting
together and we're talking about friends of ours that aren't here. Anymore,
and we're remembering them. And most of the time we're
remembering people, we're remembering people with a smile. And you know,
that's one of the great things about the Masters. Is
it partially because it's the time of year, partially because
it's the place, and partially it's because the man of
the man who founded the tournament. But it is in
many ways it is the ultimate, even more than Baseball's
opening day. It is the right of spring. It really is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and actually it really does, especially especially for
the golf world. It's like, oh good, the Masters. That
means I can go start warming up again.
Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, you got to understand, for half
the country, the country is either has either just dug
out of snow or digging out of snow. And this
is sort of the sign. I mean, the azaleas are blooming,
the flowers and the dogwoods are blooming. And if the
azaleas aren't blooming, I'm sure they'll find a way to
make the bloo.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, other than the Masters, it's really
like the Ryder Cup, you know, team golf that really
makes the everyone stop, but nothing like the Masters. And
even more so now that We're oversaturated on baseball with
you know, games every day and uh spring training and stuff,
and the inn League play on opening day makes me
just I don't even want to get started with that one.
But no, the Masters really is this sign that everything
is going to be okay in the world.
Speaker 1: The only the only thing in sports that I think
even remotely compares with it. There are two things that
are and it's going to sound strange when I say it,
but there are two things in sports that will remotely
compare with the Masters.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Number one is Wimbledon, sure, held at the same place
every year. It is that sports hallmark event. It really is, right.
And the second is, and I'm almost scared to say this,
the Daytona five hundred.
Speaker 2: Well different, k I know that the Daytona five hundred
is the super Bowl of stock car racing NASCAR, but
it's the opening of the season. But it doesn't signify
springtime like those two that you just brought.
Speaker 1: That one held it's still held in the winter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So the Masters really says everybody, come on outside,
it's beautiful, We're going to get to play now for
a couple months.
Speaker 1: Wimbledon is held in the middle of.
Speaker 2: The summer exactly. Yeah, it's an important event for the sport,
but it doesn't mean for the culture what the Masters
really significant.
Speaker 1: Funny because, and it's so funny because because that wasn't
the original plan for the Masters. Sure, it was originally
supposed to be in March, and when they finally decided
to move it to April, they decided to move it
to the first full week of April. And the funniest
part is that somebody went to Cliff Roberts and they
said to him, mister Roberts, don't you understand that if
you move this tournament to the first full week of
April about once or twice every four or five years,
that Sunday of the Masters is going to overlap with
Easter Sunday. And Cliff said, well, can't they move it?
Speaker 2: Did he say, oh, but it's also passover?
Speaker 1: No he didn't.
Speaker 2: He didn't say that.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, did we complete in the beginning of our conversation,
you were talking about the Bobby Jones Centennial? Did we
complete the lineup of what's going on? What's happening in
twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1: Well, we get there, five, we have don't have anything
set yet. For twenty twenty see, but that will be
the centennial will be at Oakmont this year, and we're
hoping we can get something worked out with them. I
was lucky enough to be able to go to Inwood
Country Club in twenty twenty three and play golf, play
around of golf there on the actual one hundredth anniversary
day that you won. And then last September I went
to Marion and played around at Marion, not on one
hundredth anniversary, but it was in the same month at least,
and then spoke at a dinner there that night. The
funniest part was I went there with a big leg injury,
and so I was walking around Marian's a walking only
golf course. My wife was with me, and Mimi said
to me, on about the third hole, she could see
I was in really bad pain, and she said, Bobarre,
you sure you want to do this. I said, Honey,
this is Marion. I don't care if somebody has to
come out and drag me around this golf course. I'm
finishing this round.
Speaker 2: Here you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I did a man. Now I was a man.
I was in agony for about two weeks afterwards, but
it was worth every bit of it.
Speaker 2: Well. As always, this conversation is one of my favorite
of the year, not not just because of the history
that I get to learn that I don't really know
much about, but I get a perspective on the history.
And you and I have so much fun together. I mean,
we do really come right down to it. We both
enjoy doing this together. And I really appreciate you coming
on this show and saying nice things about it and
being available for me. So we can have this conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and I can do it outside of
the outside of the month of April too, So just
so you.
Speaker 2: Know, well we've had you on talking with doctor Joe
parent that's right, you know, it's I want yeah, absolutely
doctors so perfect to have you now, it is, yeah,
And hopefully you know you have not I did not
ask you for the tickets. You have not gotten these tickets,
And so I hope I get to see you when
I'm when I there, because I really would love to
meet you face to face.
Speaker 1: I would It's hard to believe after a number of
years that we've never actually met in person.
Speaker 2: No, it's that. Yeah, I definitely hope we can do that.
We tried last year we did and couldn't do it
and something came up. But that's okay, that's life, and
try to get here.
Speaker 1: We're getting there.
Speaker 2: Doctor Bob Jones, the fourth always a pleasure to have
one of the show.
Speaker 1: That pleasure is mine and I just loved doing this.
It's good to see you, my friends.