Speaker 1: We are one ninety game.
Speaker 2: I'm just looking to see any of this Clancy in
the zool. It's the second this Lancy appears to us
by zoom out of the target release.
Speaker 1: This case is calf emotions coma first.
Speaker 3: Good morning, you're on a Jennifer spread to a kamawell
you spray good morning.
Speaker 4: I believe Attorney Kenny is on our way upstairs now.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, and Shannon Buckingham also over there going
Tony Buckingham, Good morning.
Speaker 5: There the Kevin Readdington on behalf of Lindsay Clancy, who
has you know is going.
Speaker 2: The zoom with us as Radington. Good morning this Clancy,
good morning?
Speaker 1: Can you hear me? All right?
Speaker 2: Good morning after honor?
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you all right.
Speaker 2: So this is really kind of a continuation of the
discussions that we had yesterday.
Speaker 1: And what I wanted to do was the.
Speaker 2: Whole kind of give you where I think, uh, we're
going to go and then and see that and we
can go right there. One of the first things I
want to talk about again is transportation and logistics issues.
Speaker 1: How are we going to do that? Then I want
to go over.
Speaker 2: The medical records kind of where we are in regards
to discovery.
Speaker 1: Then I want to kind of see where.
Speaker 2: We are, and then I know there's a Rule seventeen
motion we have to talk about and then talk about
other needed dates before the trial. And the last thing
that I probably mentioned so everydy has in the head
is the date to provide an updated joint pre trial memo,
because I think that's going to be very helpful.
Speaker 1: At least for the court in regards to preparation.
Speaker 2: And so I think the first thing that I would
suggest bringing up is the transportation and other related issues
in regards to it. I don't talked a little bit
about that yesterday debt was more.
Speaker 1: I think in the frame of it being.
Speaker 2: Of an emergency issue about whether or not its claims
was brought in.
Speaker 1: Today we can now kind of take more.
Speaker 2: Of a deep breath and talk about kind of where
we're going.
Speaker 1: Over They so atturned Kenny's here.
Speaker 2: As well, and so good as to what kind of
what the Sheriff's department thoughts are proposed plans or procedures
how they would follow in a.
Speaker 1: Case like this.
Speaker 6: Good morning here on Jessica Kenny on behalf of the
from the.
Speaker 7: County Sheriff's department.
Speaker 6: As they've represented to the court previously, we were forwarded.
Speaker 7: The habe to bring the defendant to court.
Speaker 6: In this manner a couple of times previously, it gets
sent to Tewksbury, but because she's also held without bail
on the murder charges, Tewksbury sends that to us.
Speaker 7: I originally thought that that might have just been because
of the murder charges, but as I learned and explained.
Speaker 6: To the court yesterday, I apologize.
Speaker 7: I have a clop drop in my life. I just
have a little cold, so I didn't.
Speaker 1: Watch it to the audience.
Speaker 6: As I learned yesterday, it's also essential because Tewksbury Hospital
doesn't have the ability to transport nor.
Speaker 7: The security to be able to do it either.
Speaker 6: So, as I indicated previously, the last time we were
sent a hay for her appearance, we received that from
Tewksbury Hospital with a note that her medical information would follow.
It did follow with the facts from Tewksbury that explained
the nature of some of her medical needs.
Speaker 7: In light of receiving that facts, the.
Speaker 6: Transportation Supervisor reached out to me into our HSA, who
is our Health Services administrator, and asked for a little
bit more information to make sure that we could be
all of her needs.
Speaker 7: So our HSA, who was in court with me.
Speaker 6: On the last day, did reach out to Tewksbury Hospital
and spoke with someone there who provides us a little
bit more background information about the medical necessity that would
be required.
Speaker 7: And based on that information.
Speaker 6: That we received, we understood that we could transport her
in a van that we have that has been equipped
to hold a wheelchair. It's a regular transportation van that
we had about a year after we purchased it. We
had it outfitted by a company specifically that does that.
Speaker 7: To make it so that it can be used or
utilized with a wheelchair.
Speaker 6: We had also indicated that based on the information we
received from Tixsbury, we had no objection to sending a
nurse along with Ms Clancy.
Speaker 7: The information we had received from Texsbury was that.
Speaker 6: A likelihood she could handle any care matters that came up,
but in the event that she did need some medical assistance,
we thought it would be prudent to send a nurse
along with her for that transportation. And so that was
our plan based on the information that we had from Tewksbury.
Speaker 7: Obviously, since that occurred.
Speaker 6: I have received from mister Reddington an Ada request that
he filed with the court with documentation from a psychologist
I believe that has been seeing Mss Clancy that indicates
that any sort of custody situation would create a sense
of helplessness and loss of control that could trigger some
mental health responses from her. I'm also in receipt of
a two page letter I believe it was just yesterday
or Monday that that was forwarded to me that instead
indicated that she may actually need a stretcher and that
she would need two nurses to accompany her, and it
had some more detailed medical information.
Speaker 7: So before I had received those, like I said, based.
Speaker 6: On our communications, that was our plan. That's all the
information that I have regarding that. I only obviously have
what Tukesbury shares with us, and then what I receive
from our council separately or from the court and pleadings.
Speaker 7: If it is still the case.
Speaker 6: That Tukesbury believe she could be in the wheelchair van,
we are able to do that if she requires an ambulance.
Speaker 7: I've spoken to our transportation officer about this. It's a
much bigger ask.
Speaker 6: We would have to contract with a private ambulance company
to provide that, because we do not have an ambulance
and Twksbury does not have an ambulance, so there would
be certainly a.
Speaker 7: Cost associated with that. There's also some logistics is that.
Speaker 6: The scheduling of an ambulance obviously can sometimes be a
difficult thing given the nature of what ambulances are. I
don't know if we would require the ambulance of court
require the ambulance to stay at the courthouse the entire
time that Ms.
Speaker 7: Clancy was here each day to make that stretcher.
Speaker 6: Available to her if she needed it. If the ambulance
were allowed to leave, it would then require the trial
court officers to reach out to the Sheriff's department to
reach out to the ambulance company to send the ambulance back.
Speaker 7: And obviously that would have to occur.
Speaker 6: If that's what the court rules that she meets for transportation,
that wouldn't require us to arrange that every day of
her trial for the duration of that trial.
Speaker 7: So we do not have another way to transport.
Speaker 6: Her if it's not in an in a van that
can accommodate her wheelchair, All.
Speaker 8: Right, thank you.
Speaker 1: Let me ask if.
Speaker 2: In regards to the information you received from two expert
not considering the psychiatric concerns that were raised a separate
would the Sheriff's department be able to provide the care
or the supervision that was kind of spelled out in
that letter from the other day.
Speaker 7: So that letter from the other day seems to indicate
that she would need a flat surface such as a gurney,
and believe it was an example.
Speaker 6: So we don't have a van that could accommodate a stretcher,
so if she needed that during transport, it would be
an ambulance. If it was a matter of getting a
stretcher to the courthouse so that she had it here available,
I can talk to our facility about whether we have
some sort of medical bed that we could make available
to her here if she requires two. If the court
finds that she requires two nurses, obviously that's a little
bit more of a strain on our staff, as we
would be then required to pull two nurses out of
our medical unit in the jail. So I did actually
briefly mention yesterday when I was speaking to the attorneys
from Twksbury if.
Speaker 7: Maybe they would be willing to split.
Speaker 1: That with us.
Speaker 6: And maybe if they may be able to send a
nurse from tuks Ban and we would send one from
the House of Correction, so there could be two, but
neither of our because they also expressed concern about pulling
two nurses off of their floor as well, and I.
Speaker 7: Know they're at least open to the idea of talking
about it.
Speaker 6: It would probably involve conversations with the attorneys from DMH
because there are some union and labor issues that we
would just have to work through individually with the individual departments.
But I don't it wasn't foreclosed when I brought it
up yesterday. If the court does order her to have
two nurses with her, perhaps one could come from the
house direction and one from the hospital setting, so that
neither is really shorthanded. I know this will probably be
a lengthy trial, if I understand, and so it's just
a it can be done, but it would just take
some planning, that's all.
Speaker 7: We're hoping to get an order from the court well
in advance.
Speaker 6: Plan would be yes, especially if there's going to be
an ambulance involved, because that in fact, yesterday we tried
in case the court didn't allow her to appear on
so today, we tried to see how we'd be able
to maybe get an ambulance for today. We had struck
out on all of the attempts that we had made,
so advanced planning is key if there's going to be
an ambulance involved, and if there's going to be more
than one nurse involved.
Speaker 8: Okay, right, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Thank you, Miss Grindington.
Speaker 2: What suggestions or proposals would you suggest the court implement
in regards to the transportation.
Speaker 1: As well as while Miss Clancy is here.
Speaker 5: During the trialey, that whole presentation is as the old
song back in the seventies is radio Guy, Guy doesn't
tell you anything. The last time that Council for the
Sheriff addressed this court, I got off of FTR the
representations that were made to this court that led to
my filing the seventeen motion, which I think is central
to the issues that you and I don't envy your
job because this is a nightmare. This case is going
to be a logistical nightmare when you consider the facts
that number one, we have a person who is paralyzed
and will be paralyzed for the rest of our life,
and has lost any sensation in any motive control whatsoever,
And I am referring to the January second, twenty twenty
six letter that I obtained from the physician's assistant who
knows Miss Clancy, who has been involved very very deeply
with her treatment and care, indicating that lacks both sensation
and motive control below the sternum brestupone when we had
our hearing and counsel for the Sheriff may represents to you.
First of all, one of the things that was said
is that it would.
Speaker 8: Be apparently the sheriff.
Speaker 5: Health Services administrator and I quote reached out to the
medical team there and learned that Clancy is confined.
Speaker 8: To a wheelchair.
Speaker 5: However, she can self transfer and can provide self care
in virtually all aspects of a day trip like this
to the courthouse. A day trip like this to the courthouse,
the only thing Teekesbury was requesting was that we transport
her via a wheelchair van, which we do have one
of those bands available, which begs the question, first of all,
as my roof seventeen motion, I did an investigation and
I don't know who the heck they talked to from Teukesbury,
but that's not the information I'm getting from Tewkesbury. So
I filed the request number one want a copy of
the signed hippiform.
Speaker 8: That is a law. It's a federal law.
Speaker 5: We all know it, and it means something that a
person has to sign an authorization before people can willingly
make phone calls and talk to people about somebody's physical condition,
mental condition, dealing with medical records and things of that nature,
which apparently was done here. There's an awful lot of
representations manage to the court about someone from Tewksbury.
Speaker 8: Let me stuck in.
Speaker 2: Physicians assistant, and if I have that information from that
letter that was provided by you to the court as
well as to the car model, my thought is that
seems to be more representative of what the condition is,
and I'd like to go forward if I adopt that opinion.
The question I'd have is what are the arrangements consistent
with that then conditioned It's set out in that letter.
Speaker 1: That's kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 8: Right now, understood, and I appreciate that.
Speaker 5: And facts and identification of the source of the facts
are important here. You don't just reference someone from Tewkesbury.
And then in my roll seventeen. I asked for identification
of the person who is the health service administrator apparently
for the sheriff that spoke to someone from Tewkesbury about
the day trip to the courthouse. I don't know who
it is that work for the Sheriff's department that talked to.
Speaker 8: Them in Tewkesbury.
Speaker 5: As I said, I want to have in my order
a copy of the HIPPI form that was signed by
Ms Clancy, which I know and that represents of the
court's never done. I want to know the identity of
the person from Tewkesbury who allegedly advises that she is
capable of providing health care in all aspects of the
day trip to the courthouse, and that all they wanted
was transferred via wheelchair. You take that letter of January
second that was addressed to whom it may concern, which
unfortunately is you, because you are the one that ultimately
has to decide the logistics of this case.
Speaker 8: And it is nightmarish.
Speaker 5: We are going to be in a situation where we
have a woman who is paralyzed from the Sternham down.
Your honor is well aware that she has no control
over any of her bodily functions.
Speaker 8: Urana has the.
Speaker 5: Letter that describes in detail the requirements, and I know
the letter is underseal. I'm just out of interest in
trying not to get into embarrassing issues here. It's incredible.
The medical care that is necessary for the duration of
the trial and periodically during the day. This is where
it's advised to the court that she requires is a
two person female assist for these issues necessitating transfers to
flat surfaces such as stretcher or exam table. How that
health does she come up with telling you that she's
able to emulate and self transfer and provide self care
in all aspects of a day trip like this to
the courthouse. When you have this letter that tells you
the condition that this woman is in requiring two.
Speaker 8: Person faces hard facts that we're dealing with here. So
look looking back at the letter.
Speaker 5: After the transfer it to the flat surface, it has
to be done on a regular basis.
Speaker 8: She then has other issues that have to be taken
care of.
Speaker 5: As you can well imagine, she is not able to
even use a handicapped bathroom stall. She has to have
extra supplies available, she has to have a nurse that's
not a veterinarian that knows what the medical condition of
the individual sheriff's the pot.
Speaker 8: See.
Speaker 5: We have raised the issue into one twenty three twenty one.
A person who is mentally ill who has been committed,
if you will to the care, cossing and control the.
Speaker 8: Close the sheriff illness two or.
Speaker 5: Previse authorized under this chapter shall not use any restraints
they're unnecessary for the safety of the person being transported
or anyone likely to come in contact with the prison.
I've also requested ADA assistance.
Speaker 8: I researched into it.
Speaker 5: And found that there is one form that is supposed
to be used in the Superior Court and the Comonwealth
of Massachusetts or any of the court systems in the
cononlawth of Massachusetts.
Speaker 8: That form was provided by the committee.
Speaker 5: As you runner knows, that is dealing with the Americans
with Disabilities Act. She's an American, she's resumed innocent, she
has a disability. She comes squarely under the ADA. I
filed the request with this court Council for the sheriff
indicated that I didn't ask the sheriff. I filed it
randomly with the court. No, it wasn't randomly with the
court it's what was required by the Superior Court ADA.
So I did file ADA, meaning Americans a Disabilities Act.
I did file that request. So now we're dealing with
one twenty three twenty one. We're dealing with the ADA,
and it does apply to this court. So my suggestion
you're on her is that I need to know who
it was that they talked to from Tewksbury because I
want to interview that person. I want to copy the
hip or form, which I know they don't have, and
I want to know who the person is from the
Sheriff's Department that made these representations to Attorney Kenny, because
Attorney Kenny, I'm sure, is relying on what was provided
to her.
Speaker 8: So you, I think have to have a hearing. Now
hearing might.
Speaker 5: Entail evidence from the physician's assistant. Maybe it would require evidence.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 5: Maybe you have an independent evaluation. This whole thing raises
issues of confidence and trial. How's the person going to
be able to go through the horrific emotion of this
case for three to four weeks on a daily basis
with these medical issues of significant concern, not to mention
the fact as is indicated again in the letter which
gives you the hard facts that we're dealing with, that
she has significant suicidal ideation, that since she has.
Speaker 8: Been in custody.
Speaker 5: Care and control of DMH and has been in Tewkesbury,
for example, she is on a twenty four to seven
y by a third party.
Speaker 8: A person has to observe her.
Speaker 5: She cannot have access to anything that she can use
to hurt herself. She's not in dangered to others, that's
for sure, but she's surely a dangered to herself. So
all of this people telling you, well, Judge, you know,
we can put her in the walk up, and we
can put her downstairs and we can move her up
to it.
Speaker 8: It's not on me. If this woman kills herself during
this trial, which there is a very real probability.
Speaker 5: That could have, it's on somebody, and it's not on
me because I'm coming in here with names, reports, facts,
medical and psychiatric issues, and unfortunately it always at your
table because you are the judge that has to determine
the logistics on this case.
Speaker 8: So that's why I think we need a full hearing.
Speaker 2: A commonwealth you wish to address the court, Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Defense Council referenced Chapter one twenty three, Section
twenty one.
Speaker 7: But what it states in the very beginning.
Speaker 3: Of that statute is that it applies only to the
transport for any purpose under that Chapter one twenty three.
So that's basically someone committed under Chapter one twenty three
and you're transporting to court to address those issues. This
is clearly, clearly not that situation where she's going to
be transported for a murder trial, a criminal case.
Speaker 7: So I suggest that the.
Speaker 3: Items listed in that statute describing how and when you can.
Speaker 4: Have someone confined or restrained don't apply here in.
Speaker 3: Terms of the HIPPA form that defense is asking for.
This woman is a prisoner held without bail on these
charges and is in the custody control of the Sheriff's Department,
so they have every right to access her medical information
because they're.
Speaker 4: Responsible for her care and treatment and keeping her safe, which.
Speaker 3: They have done an excellent job up until now, and
I assume they will continue to do so now. The
letter from the physician's assistant Data January second, twenty twenty
six never states that Miss Clancy has to be transported
in an ambulance, never says that she has to have
a stretcher for transportation. What it says is for bathroom needs,
she requires the two females and a flat surface such
as a stretcher or an exam table.
Speaker 7: So I think that the initial.
Speaker 3: What's in this letter and what was initially described to
Terny Kenny is correct that she could be transported in
a wheelchair van.
Speaker 7: But we now have the.
Speaker 3: Additional information that we need to medical staff present in
some type of table, which I think we could probably
rent something. You know you can rent too medical equipment,
so I think the court could arrange that or the
Sheriff's department, however you order it. And the other the
defense had mentioned how Miss Kenny was able to come
up with this information about Miss Clancy being able to
take care of herself. It's read in this letter from
January second. It says Miss Clancy is able to independently
transfer between her wheelchair and her hospital bed, so she
is capable of.
Speaker 7: Transfer and movement, and that is what Miss Kenny said.
Speaker 3: We now have this new information about bathroom needs, but
that can be accommodated. So I don't think there's any
reason for the drama here. There is no need for
hearing here. You have the letter from the physician's assistant.
An order can be crafted from that, and the Sheriff's
Department can comply with that. So I think it would
be good for everyone to just take a breath and
make a plan and follow the plan.
Speaker 8: I'd like to respond you I briefly, I don't need
to take a breath.
Speaker 5: What I am going to do is make reference to
the letter that was just referred to, which is January two,
twenty twenty six, that I obtained and requested, and Council
just told you that. The letter says that Miss Clancy
and I quote, is able to independently transferred between her
wheelchair and her hospital bed. But what was not said
is the rest of the sentence, which is that she
has not had nificant exposure to settings outside of the
hospital since her injury and would likely not be able
to safely transfers independently and unfamiliar settings.
Speaker 1: We here's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2: I'm going to craft in order based largely on the
information that the court has received from the physicians assistant
from TEUSPO, and so that's the starting point that I'm
going That's really the only.
Speaker 1: Information that I have. So I'm going to draft anywer,
and I am going to distribute it to both.
Speaker 2: Council on this as well as to the Sheriff's Department,
and we may need a follow up hearing in regards
to that if the sheriff Department says we can and
we can't comply with that, or if the defendant feels
this doesn't address.
Speaker 1: Enough the issues that are set out. But I have.
Speaker 2: A very specific report as to MS clans, these limitations
and needs, and I'm going to craft to the best
that I can in order addressing the needs of transportation
to and from the courthouse, but also how we handle
the time that she's here, what needs she needs during
the trial and oft times.
Speaker 1: So she's in one of them cells. So I'm gonna
try and draft as specific an order. You know, we've
all tried a lot of cases, we know, you know,
I think I know kind of some of the things
that can.
Speaker 2: Happen, and there's waiting time and there's downtime in regards
to that. So I'm going to try as best I can,
but I know I've been to overlook something and so
I think it's going to require at least one more run.
If everybody commits, say Okay, what do you think, what's
the problem that you see, Sheriff's department?
Speaker 1: What's the problem that you see?
Speaker 2: Phrase something like a qualified nurse questions what's qualified? That
maybe something we have to specifically address.
Speaker 8: But I want to.
Speaker 2: Get this done within really the next couple of weeks
or so, because the one thing I don't want is
to have everybody here for done me.
Speaker 1: I know, I understand that for me to draft this
order circulated between the parties and then have one more
kind of meet here to.
Speaker 2: Say, do you see a problem? Do you see a
problem Sheriff's department? Do you see a problem?
Speaker 1: And then get that in place and everybody can kind
of figure that out.
Speaker 2: And if it requires getting a second nurse and it
requires phone calls, how we.
Speaker 1: Do that well? Or how they said, or the getting
a gurdy or getting a.
Speaker 2: Stretcher that we can place in one of the cells
on this floor so what's not in it floors downstairs?
Speaker 1: At least then we can get going on.
Speaker 2: That's not something we have to do with the first
day of trial. So that's that's where I'm going to
do on this. I'm gonna take a run in draft
and disorder as best I can and then but everybody
should rest assured that that's not going to be the
end of it.
Speaker 1: The parties will have an opportunity to.
Speaker 2: Kind of respond to it, and I would welcome suggestions
if someone says this is a better way to do this,
or this is not a wrestling something we thought of.
Speaker 1: But at least that'll give us a starting point. And
like I said, I have I am now a very
specific consideration.
Speaker 2: I'm also going to review in regards to eighty eight compliance.
I know that I have started to look into that
in regards to that, but I think this is this
may address those issues, so I want to make sure