WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:06.280 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio. 2 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:11.839 Well, I think that all of us by now know 3 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:19.480 the legal result in the criminal case, the criminal case 4 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:23.800 against Karen Reid. Yesterday she was acquitted on all of 5 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:30.679 the serious charges, including a murder to manslaughter and also 6 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:36.399 leaving the scene of an accident. She was convicted on 7 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:40.679 operating under the influence, which was the least of the charges. 8 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:43.759 So I think all of us know that story. But 9 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:50.000 I saw this morning a survey of Norfolk County eligible 10 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:56.759 drawers which was conducted I guess overnight with us now 11 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:01.399 is the pollster who did this poll, Brian Win. He 12 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:07.159 is with a polling company called Opinion Diagnostics. Brian, the 13 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:12.400 results of the poll are to me very surprising. I 14 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:14.680 don't know if you had the same reaction. But before 15 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.200 we go to the poll, tell us about Opinion Diagnostic. 16 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:21.000 You're a Massachusetts based polling and market research firm. How 17 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:23.959 long you've been around, and we'll talk a little bit 18 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.680 about the methods that you use to conduct this poll. 19 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:32.599 Right after the jury came down with their decision, So 20 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:35.719 let's talk about opinion. First of all, Welcome, Brian. Let's 21 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:38.280 talk about your company, Opinion Diagnostics. 22 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.000 Welcome well, thanks thanks Dan for having me and thanks 23 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.840 for letting me share this survey and the results with 24 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:49.680 your listeners. So Opinion Diagnostics is a polling firm. I 25 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.719 started back in twenty twenty three, but before that had 26 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:58.719 done polling and political consulting for a variety of clients 27 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:02.359 over the course of fifteen years. And they've been in 28 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:05.879 Massachusetts now for really since two thousand and eight. I 29 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:08.520 actually came up here for college at Boston College and 30 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:12.159 never left. I had the opportunity along the way to 31 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:14.000 do work in politics and masters usets. I moved up 32 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:18.400 here originally to work for Governor Baker on his first 33 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.759 camp or his second campaign, his first winning campaign in 34 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.599 twenty fourteen. I had the opportunity to serve as the 35 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:25.719 executive director of the mass Use Republican Party and then 36 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.560 as Governor Baker's campaign manager in twenty eighteen. Politics and 37 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:31.879 public policy for a long time here in mass but 38 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.639 now I'm a full time poster. 39 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.240 Do you do polling for a commercial industry, businesses as 40 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:39.800 well or as it all political? 41 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:45.039 So it breaks into three different categories. The first is political, 42 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.199 the second is more of traditional market research for corporations, 43 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:52.680 and then there's sort of the intersection of those things, 44 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:55.639 which are issues of public policy that oftentimes are either 45 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.719 solving that for business or elected officials or for just 46 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:02.319 sort of good governments organizations to figure out how to 47 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:05.360 how they should work with and address the problems that 48 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:07.159 they have when talking to the electorate. 49 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.520 Okay, one of the things that I stress with polsters 50 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:13.919 who I respect, and I certainly respect seeing what you 51 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:17.759 did on this ball, but with people like Dave Paleologus 52 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.159 who's been a friend for many years, Spencer Kimball, David Suffolk, 53 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:27.439 Spencer Kimball at Emerson, and when people are skeptical of polsters, 54 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.240 I always always explain to them that it is in 55 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:35.479 the interest of a polster to first and foremost be accurate. 56 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:39.840 They're almost like the equivalent of a baseball umpire. I mean, 57 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.680 the baseball umpire doesn't really care if it's a strike 58 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:48.080 or a ball. But if it's you know, three feet 59 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.240 off the plate and they call it a strike, or 60 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.280 if it's right down the middle and they call it 61 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:56.400 a ball, they're not going to be an umpire very 62 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.879 long anywhere. And the same way with polsters. So you 63 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:05.599 went into this last night obviously in the hours after 64 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:08.680 the verdicts came down to the Karen Reid case, and 65 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.240 you tell us what you did. You reached out to 66 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.040 a lot of people, and so I think the quality 67 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:21.079 of this poll was done properly. The results to me 68 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:26.199 are kind of surprising. So let's talk about the procedure 69 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:30.040 that you employed last night around this time. 70 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.560 Sure, so I've done more than four hundred poles in 71 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:36.680 Massachusetts over the years, and so I'm well versed and 72 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.680 experienced and how to conduct these in this state. This 73 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.800 poll was interesting because of how quickly I wanted to 74 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.240 be able to move on it. So this was drafted 75 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.639 and ready to go and ready to go at a 76 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:51.439 moment's notice. And we sort of had the false alarm 77 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:53.639 on Tuesday when it seemed like the jury might reach 78 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.759 a verdict on Tuesday night after those jury questions, and 79 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:58.959 so was ready to go on Tuesday night, but ultimately 80 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.800 when in the field on Wednesday night, this poll was 81 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:05.839 available for respondents to take from five pm until eleven 82 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.279 to fifty nine pm. The people we wanted to survey 83 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:11.879 were eligible jurors in Norfolk County, which to be an 84 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.519 eligible juror in Norfolk County. You need to be a 85 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:16.879 United States citizen, you need to be over the age 86 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:18.839 of eighteen, and you need to be able to reasonably 87 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:22.839 understand English. And we targeted individuals with the survey that 88 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:24.879 we sent the survey to that we thought met those criteria. 89 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.040 But we also confirm thatt during the course of the survey. 90 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.839 So ultimately we selected out of the five hundred and 91 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.040 thirty five thousand people in Norfolk County that meet that 92 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.759 criteria to serve as a juror. We selected seventy thousand 93 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.319 of those individuals in a random sample that we thought 94 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.639 we would reach out to. Every one of those seventy 95 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:45.439 thousand individuals received a text message last night, and in fact, 96 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.480 I know that many of your listeners probably live in 97 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:49.480 Norfolk County and a lot of them probably received this 98 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.560 text message ask to them to take the survey. Ultimately, 99 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:56.800 one hundred and seventy people that met the criteria did 100 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.920 in fact take the survey. And to add extra confidence, 101 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.000 every person that received the text message had a unique 102 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.399 alpha numeric code in it to make sure that you 103 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:07.759 couldn't share the survey. If two people took the survey 104 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:09.680 with the same code, we could see that, and we 105 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:12.839 could flag that. And in fact, normally when we do surveys, 106 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:16.600 maybe three to five people share the survey say, you know, 107 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:19.120 theyfore the text message to a friend, or they post 108 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:21.680 on social media. In this case, this was the largest 109 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:23.759 number I've ever seen. There was one hundred and sixty 110 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.560 one duplicate responses, and I could tell from the responses 111 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.079 that somebody had posted it on social media. Now we 112 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:32.680 consider those results to be unscientific because we're trying to 113 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:36.600 take a random sample of the eligible jurors in Norfolk County. 114 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:38.920 So we discarded those one hundred and sixty one responses. 115 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.959 So this is one one hundred and seventy responses from 116 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.040 people that we have a high degree of confidence that 117 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.720 they are eligible to service jurors, that it was individuals 118 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:50.319 that we affirmatively contacted and so have a lot of confidence. 119 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:54.000 And overall, this survey has a margin of error plus 120 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.240 and minus two point nine percent. So any number that 121 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:58.879 I quote tonight, that's the top line number. We could 122 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:01.519 think that number could be plus three minus three roughly, 123 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:04.360 but somewhere in that range. With ninety five percent confidence, 124 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:06.720 what prompted. 125 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:10.319 You to be poised and ready to do this poll. 126 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:12.959 Obviously you thought about it ahead of time. This wasn't 127 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:17.040 a spur of the moment poll, I assume, And if 128 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:20.279 I'm asking a business question to which you cannot answer, 129 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:24.360 I'm assuming you did not do this at the behest 130 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.639 of anyone other than your own idea. Here, there's no 131 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.399 political candidate who wanted this poll done. There's no lawyers, 132 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:36.360 defense lawyers, prosecutors, nothing, No one sponsored the poll. 133 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.519 Correct, Correct, there's no sponsor in this poll. This was 134 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:42.519 something that I decided to do and that our firm 135 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.600 decided to do ourselves because we had interest in the 136 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:46.040 case and. 137 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.079 Thought that it would be interesting to share everybody had 138 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:49.040 interest in this case. 139 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.160 Yeah, And frankly, we thought that we were sort of 140 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:54.879 uniquely qualified to move quickly and get the data and 141 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.439 get it out into the ecosystem. And so this was 142 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:59.120 something we did not at the behest of anyone. But 143 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.040 I will say my phone has been ringing off the 144 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:02.959 hook today with these results. 145 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:06.040 Absolutely, we're going to get to the results. I think 146 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:11.079 they're surprising. Uh, without exposing we'll get to the results 147 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:13.839 right after the break. Were you surprised by the by 148 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.240 some of the results I. 149 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:21.240 Had suspicions that a majority of people would be sort 150 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.360 of in favor of Karen Reid uh and think that 151 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.240 she was innocent. But the numbers and how large that 152 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:30.959 those numbers were were somewhat startling to make. 153 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.039 Yeah, and that's that's what we're going to talk about. 154 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.279 My guest is Brian Winn. He runs a company called 155 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:42.120 Opinion Diagnostics, been around for about three years, uh, and 156 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:45.200 it is it's making an impact tonight with this pole 157 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.759 fascinating results. We're going to go to the numbers, and 158 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:50.519 then I'm going to ask all of you to We'll 159 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:52.960 do a little poll of some of you if you'd 160 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.679 like to talk to a pollster. Six one seven, two, five, four, 161 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.919 ten thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty. I'm fascinating 162 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.480 by polls, know a lot of pollsters. I find that 163 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:07.000 most pollsters are much more accurate that we give them 164 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.919 credit for. And you can be the judge of that 165 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:11.919 when we get some of the numbers for you. Right 166 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:14.039 after the break, you have the phone numbers. Those are 167 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:16.960 the most important one numbers six one, seven, two, five, four, 168 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.759 ten thirty six seven. Coming right back on Night Side 169 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:25.480 with my guest Brian Winn of Opinion Diagnostics. 170 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:30.679 Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio. 171 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:36.480 You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's 172 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:37.159 news radio. 173 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:40.919 So let's go to the top line here. My guest 174 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.240 on the line with us right now is the owner, 175 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.120 the founder of Opinion Diagnostics. 176 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:50.480 Uh. 177 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:54.279 And this is a polling firm that that is is 178 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.799 going to have a pretty big footprint. Brian Winn is 179 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:59.559 his name, uh, and going to have a very big footprint. 180 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:01.759 Founded twenty twenty three, but it has been around for 181 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:06.320 a while even before that. So amongst this the group 182 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.720 of pollsters of people who you pulled the quote unquote 183 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.879 eligible jurors and you feel this is within a margin 184 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:16.519 of era of a little less than three percent. What 185 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:21.240 percentage felt read was guilty? 186 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:25.120 So we asked people. Uh. So we read to people 187 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.240 right after the verdict in case they hadn't seen it. 188 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:29.320 We told them what the verdict was, which is that 189 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.600 she had been acquitted of numerous charges, but she had 190 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:34.799 been convicted of operating a motor vehicle under the influence 191 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.240 of liquor commonly known as OUI. When we asked people, first, 192 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.600 you believe the jury reached the correct verdict? So acquittal 193 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:46.279 on a manslaughter but conviction on Oui. And of people 194 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:48.559 that were familiar with the trial, which was ninety three 195 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.840 percent of all jurors in Norfolk County said that they 196 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:53.279 were familiar with the trial. So of that ninety three percent, 197 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:57.240 seventy percent said yes, the jury had reached the correct verdict, 198 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.360 compared to only eleven percent that said no. 199 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.000 And by the way, you didn't ask them about murder. 200 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.600 It looks to me as if you asked them about manslaughter, 201 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:07.399 and I did. 202 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.279 And the reason for that is what we got to 203 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:12.200 in the next in the next two questions. And so 204 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:17.480 the first question we asked is if for if on 205 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:20.799 the manslaughter charge, right, because her Oui was a lesser 206 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:22.559 included of the manslaughter charge. 207 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:23.279 Yep, right. 208 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:27.399 So the question was how close was the jury to 209 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.679 finding her guilty of one of the higher of those 210 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.559 lesser included charges. They found her guilty of the lowest 211 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.679 of the lesser included charge. And so we asked people, 212 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:39.799 should she have been found guilty of manslaughter or should 213 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.919 she have been found not guilty because you have reasonable 214 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:44.919 doubts but she might have committed the crime, but you 215 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.320 have reasonable doubts or should she have been found not 216 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.159 guilty because she's totally innocent of that crime. And among 217 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.639 the people that were familiar with the trial, only six 218 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.559 percent thought that she should have been found guilty because 219 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:59.360 she committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, compared to 220 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.600 fifty four percent that said she should be found out 221 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.120 guilty because she's totally innocent. So a majority of people 222 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.000 familiar with this trial, fifty four percent say that she 223 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.799 is totally innocent, not even that she's innocent because of 224 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:13.080 a reasonable doubt, which is another twenty four percent on 225 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:13.440 top of that. 226 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:15.679 Yeah, that gets you to that gets you to three 227 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:19.000 quarters of the respondents would have would have voted to 228 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:23.360 acquit on manslaughter and sixteen percent are unsure. And I'm 229 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.480 sure the people who were unsure if they were in 230 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:29.919 a jury room. Boy, that is a stunning number to me. 231 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:34.240 I don't think she was guilty of manslaughter. I think 232 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:39.320 the case was overcharged, But I still think that that 233 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.519 there's a certain number of people who are going to 234 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:46.440 be always influenced by the present presentation of the government, 235 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:50.559 and the government obviously they didn't have a chance of 236 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.799 going into this this trial in my opinion. 237 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:58.279 Oh not not at all. And the last top line 238 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:00.320 that we asked, and this goes to the presentation of 239 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.000 the government and the evidence that they showed to the jury. 240 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.519 We tried to predict what Norfolk County jurors would do 241 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:10.240 in the upcoming civil trial. Remember, Karen Reid is still 242 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.440 going to have a civil trial. That's a wrongful death lawsuit, 243 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.200 and the standard, as many people probably know, is different 244 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.600 in a civil trial. It's preponderance of the evidence. Is 245 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.639 it more likely than not that Karen Reid is liable 246 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.399 for the wrongful death of John o'keef. And we asked 247 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:27.159 people did they think that the preponderance of evidence showed 248 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.159 that she was liable or did the preponderance of evidence 249 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.480 not show that she is liable? And seventy three percent 250 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.960 said that based off the information that they knew, that 251 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.440 the preponderance of evidence showed that she was not liable 252 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.279 for the death of John o'keef. And so with that 253 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.600 in mind, it is incredibly difficult to imagine how a 254 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.440 wrongful death lawsuit is going to proceed given just the 255 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.120 evidence that we have, and presumably at this point, through 256 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.039 multiple years and two different trials, and all the things 257 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:56.240 that weren't presented a trial, but were sort of known 258 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.440 from outside of it without any additional information coming out. 259 00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:02.879 To start off with, roughly three quarters of everyone familiar 260 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.679 with this case and roughly sixty eight percent of every 261 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:08.960 person that's in eligible jur in Northfook County thinking that 262 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.519 the evidence that current that currently exists is not enough 263 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:14.240 evidence to find her liable of ronful death. 264 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.080 Yeah, and it's it's it's almost a ten to one ratio. 265 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:22.679 Sixty eight percent feel that the preponderance evidence does not 266 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.960 prove liability. Seven percent think that does. That's a ten 267 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:31.879 to one sixty eight to seven, you know, sixty. 268 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:36.399 Eight Put that into statistical terms if you were trying 269 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.320 to find it. And jury selection is not a random process, right, 270 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.399 As people remember, in the beginning of the care and 271 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.159 Reed trial, they went through many, many jurors to find 272 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.399 jurors that they were impartial. Almost ninety percent of the 273 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.000 jurors said that they were familiar with the case during 274 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.320 jury selection, but they tried to find jurors that were impartial. 275 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.919 So if you were to say, need I need to 276 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.639 randomly select twelve people from Norfolk County to be on 277 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.399 a jury in a civil trial, wrongful death, and what 278 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.399 are the odds that is sixty eight percent of all 279 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.879 the people in Norfolk County think that she is totally 280 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.000 that the propondence of the evidence shows that she is 281 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:12.639 not liable. What are the chances of getting twelve people 282 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:14.440 in a row? And if you do the mathm that 283 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.000 it's a one in eight hundred and sixty nine thousand 284 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:20.919 chants that a randomly selected jury would have twelve people 285 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:23.759 that think that the propondence the evidence either shows that 286 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.240 she is liable or that are unsure or just don't 287 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.080 know about the case. So one in eight hundred and 288 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:29.200 sixty nine thousand chance. 289 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:37.039 Yeah, there's another question that you highlight. Amongst eligible jurors 290 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:44.120 familiar with the case, sixty four percent believed that John 291 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.559 O'Keefe was killed by someone else. 292 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:49.759 Well, and that's that's truly the crux of this right, 293 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:51.679 And so the next section of this poll, after those 294 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:53.879 the verdicts and what people would do with their jurorsey 295 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:56.200 is what do they believe about the facts of the case. 296 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.000 And when you get into the facts of the case, 297 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.279 the one that is maybe the most startling, and it's 298 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.480 it's the largest is sixty four percent like you said, 299 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.080 believe John o'keeith was killed by someone other than Karen Reid. 300 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:11.720 And so that sort of is the reason why you 301 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.000 would think that she that these jurors would not see 302 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.480 the preponderance of evidence of her being liable. You know, 303 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:23.200 the preponderance of evidence standard, which is lower, not going 304 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.440 to be You're not going to beat that standard of 305 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.919 sixty four percent of people believe that someone else killed them. 306 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.960 How can you say that she's liable for his death 307 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.159 when sixty four percent of people believe that someone else 308 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.600 killed them. And it goes down from there. Sixty three 309 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:39.759 percent of these of these eligible jurors believe that evidence 310 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.879 was planted to help ensure that Karen Reid was found guilty, 311 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.159 and sixty one percent believe that some of the injuries 312 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.120 on John o'keeith's body were caused by a dog. 313 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.159 And the dog that is in question is the dog 314 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:54.320 that was in the house. 315 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.919 So presumably that would be the dog that's in the house. 316 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:01.440 Yeah, not some dog was out for a midnight stroll. 317 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:08.119 Eleven percent, again a starkly different number, believe that some 318 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:13.319 of the injuries were caused by a vehicle, and only 319 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:19.119 nine percent nine percent believe that the investigation was full 320 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:19.680 and fair. 321 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.480 Yeah, that vehicle number is startling, because really, what the 322 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:28.680 second trial came down to was are the injuries on 323 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.519 John o'keith's body caused by a dog or are they 324 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.599 caused in a vehicle? Right, And that's sort of the 325 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.799 central argument between the prosecution and the defense, and so 326 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.599 who wins that argument? Well, sixty one percent believe that 327 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:41.559 the injuries are caused by a dog and eleven percent 328 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.880 believe they're caused by the vehicle. And so if you're 329 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.720 looking at the witnesses that testified and having read some 330 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.839 of the insights from the jurors today that have done 331 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.000 media interviews during the course of today, the jurors believe 332 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.079 that the injuries were caused by a dog, and most 333 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:59.960 of them had serious doubt that there is a vehicle involved. 334 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.440 And some of them say that they are completely certain 335 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.640 there is no vehicle involved. And it seems to reflect 336 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.960 the data that this survey showed. 337 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.400 Okay, now we got to take a break here for 338 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:11.920 the news at the bob of the hour. But there's 339 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:16.119 some other questions that I think are very important, both 340 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:22.079 retroactively and prospectively. I'll get to those next, and I'll 341 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.039 also invite callers to join the conversation. Six one, seven, two, five, four, 342 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.519 ten thirty, six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty. 343 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:35.599 This is I don't know if any other poll that 344 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:41.640 was done this quickly following of jury verdict in such 345 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.920 a high profile trial. This never was done, I believe, 346 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.160 in the in the wake of the OJ Simpson trial 347 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.359 or any other trial that I can think of. But 348 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:55.319 this is amazing because this really does show what jurors 349 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:59.279 or potential jurors, the group of jurors from which were 350 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:05.279 chosen feel about this case literally the day and the 351 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:09.400 day after, the day, the evening of the verdict. So 352 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.759 these are these are I think amazing numbers, and I 353 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.240 think it was a brilliant idea to run this poll. 354 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.599 And we'll talk more about it, and I'd love to 355 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:19.680 have some of you join the conversation. We're back on 356 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.160 Nightside right after the news at the bottom of the. 357 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:32.279 Hour's Boston's News Radio. It's Night Side with Dan Ray, 358 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:33.720 Boston's News Radio. 359 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.920 My guest here tonight is the founder and the owner 360 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:45.680 of a company called Opinion Diagnostics. Diagnostics Brian Wynn has 361 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.079 done what I considered to be an amazing poll of 362 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:54.920 Norfolk potential Norfolk County jurors. These are people who would 363 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.720 be eligible for the jury pool from which the Karen 364 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:03.359 Reid jury was chosen. Now what I want to do, Brian, 365 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:06.640 is I got some phone calls here already, so I 366 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.079 want to go to at least one or two, and 367 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.119 then I want to get back to other conclusions that 368 00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.079 this poll has drawn, and I want to ask some questions. 369 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.240 In the meantime, let me start it off with Mike 370 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.799 in Dallas, Texas. Mike, welcome to Nightside. I don't know 371 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:23.759 if ever had the pleasure of your company here on 372 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:25.160 Nightside before. How are you, sir? 373 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.160 No, Dan, I'm a first time call or long time 374 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.200 listener ever since I was a child in Buffalo, New York. 375 00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:34.759 Come on, so you're a run of applause to you, Mike. 376 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.720 We do have listeners in Texas, so you're not the 377 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.720 first listener from Texas. But I thank you very much 378 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.440 for listening to us down there and calling and calling 379 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.000 us tonight. What question or comment would you like to make? 380 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:50.000 We have Brian Winn with us, who's in charge of 381 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:54.440 this company that conducted the poll, Opinion Diagnostics, So. 382 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.160 My question is this in a soivil trial. Of course, 383 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:00.759 if she will have to give a deposition, she will 384 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:05.400 have to testify in a civil trial. And I'm curious, Brian, 385 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.680 as to whether your survey revealed anything about how the 386 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:17.640 public views Karen Reid as a person, whether that dynamic 387 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.559 will actually maybe change the results or change the opinion 388 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.519 of people as to whether they're going to give her 389 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.559 a clean bill of health in a civil case. 390 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.200 Brother, if I could mike real quickly, you sound like 391 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:33.880 you're a lawyer. 392 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:37.720 Actually, wow, I'm a law professor. 393 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.759 How about that? Huh? What law school? If I could, 394 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.799 I'm a lawyer, as you probably know if you listen, 395 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:46.880 I'm going to BEU Law School, Boston University Law School graduate. 396 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:48.400 Do you teach? So? 397 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.920 I teach to the University of North Texas at Dallas. 398 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:55.319 We're a young law school. We've been around for eleven years, 399 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:59.079 but I practiced law for thirty four years before I 400 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:00.160 entered the academy. 401 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.599