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<v Speaker 1>What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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<v Speaker 1>where we left off with Kathy Rumler and her conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with Congress redacted. All right, let's enter Minority Exhibit Jay

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<v Speaker 1>Bates number EFTA zero one two zero three seveny one nine.

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<v Speaker 1>It's in April twenty first, twenty fifteen email exchange between

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<v Speaker 1>you and mister Epstein. Mister Epstein forwarded you an inquiry

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<v Speaker 1>from ABC News regarding an interview with gets caught off

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<v Speaker 1>by mister Fishman. I'm sorry. Do you want her to

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<v Speaker 1>read the document first before you summarize it? Redacted? Sure? Fishman, okay. Question. So,

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<v Speaker 1>before we discuss this particular exhibit, we're going to have

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<v Speaker 1>the members ask some questions. Mister Krishna Morthy, Miss Rumler okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Christina Morthy okay, thank you. Ms Rumler. My first question

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<v Speaker 1>is did you say before that Leon Black or was

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<v Speaker 1>Leon Black someone that was referred to you as a

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<v Speaker 1>client by mister Epstein, Miss Rumler, Not Leon Black. It was,

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<v Speaker 1>as I recall, there was a commercial dispute with Apollo.

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<v Speaker 1>Question so Apollo the firm? Answer? Apollo the firm correct.

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<v Speaker 1>Question okay? And how much in billing did Apollo a

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<v Speaker 1>crew with Latham and Watkins at the time that you

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<v Speaker 1>were with Latham and Watkins because of that referral? Rumler, oh, zero,

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<v Speaker 1>we had a conflict, so we were unable to do

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<v Speaker 1>the case. Question were any other clients referred to Latham

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<v Speaker 1>by Epstein? Rumler? Yes, question through you. Answer yes, there

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<v Speaker 1>was another person who he referred to me. That was

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<v Speaker 1>an individual who had been indicted in California in connection

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<v Speaker 1>with corporate acquisition. Question was it just one other client

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<v Speaker 1>that was referred to you by him? Answer? Well, of

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<v Speaker 1>course the Rothchild client was referred to me. Question okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer originally when he called me, it was about a

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<v Speaker 1>referral relating to this donor advised fund that he was

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<v Speaker 1>working on with mister Gates. Question any others? Answered directly,

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<v Speaker 1>not that I can remember sitting here. Question and how

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<v Speaker 1>much in billing did those clients refer to you by

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein a crew for Latham and Watkins. Answer, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>remember the specific amount. Question tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions.

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<v Speaker 1>Rumer Again, I don't remember the specific amount for the

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<v Speaker 1>Rothschild representation. My best recollection is that it was in

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<v Speaker 1>the single digit millions. Question Okay, did Epstein ever help

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<v Speaker 1>you in attaining your position at Goldman in twenty twenty? Answer? No,

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<v Speaker 1>he did not. Question did he ever try to help

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<v Speaker 1>you with landing any position at any other firm, including

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook not limited to Facebook? Answer not, to my knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>at the time when mister Epstein. Mister Epstein had nothing

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<v Speaker 1>to do at all with the outreach that I got

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<v Speaker 1>from Facebook. I had known for many years the retiring

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<v Speaker 1>general counsel, and he reached out to me. I made

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<v Speaker 1>the mistake I think of mentioning it to mister Epstein,

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<v Speaker 1>and then, as was his typical fashion, what I've now

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<v Speaker 1>seen is that he wanted to make himself relevant, and

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<v Speaker 1>so he would offer all sorts of suggestions about negotiations

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<v Speaker 1>around any offer. Question I understand Rumler. I didn't ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want an offer from Facebook, and I didn't receive one,

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<v Speaker 1>so his musings about that were not relevant. Question. I

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<v Speaker 1>have an email here. It's EFTA R one zero one

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<v Speaker 1>three three three eight four nine bait stamp. If you

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<v Speaker 1>can share that with the witness please, Fishman, how would

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<v Speaker 1>you like this marked redacted? It's going to be Exhibit

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<v Speaker 1>K minority Exhibit K. Question, and this is as you

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<v Speaker 1>can tell, this is an email that was originally from

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<v Speaker 1>Eryl Gould to you, which you then forwarded to mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein later on. Rumler, Yeah, question, Okay, we can all

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<v Speaker 1>read the substance of the email, but the first sentence

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<v Speaker 1>of that email says, I certainly do hope at this

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<v Speaker 1>time you understand the finality of your relationship with my husband.

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<v Speaker 1>She's referring to read Winegarten. Rumler, Yes, question, I hope

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<v Speaker 1>now you can find true happiness without having a relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with somebody else's husband. Was mister Epstein aware of this

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<v Speaker 1>relationship before Cheryl Gould became aware of this relationship? Roumler,

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<v Speaker 1>is this relevant to your inquiry? Question? Yes? Absolutely, one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent. Rumler, Okay, I'm happy to answer the question. Fishman.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy you may not be the right word, Roomler. It's

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<v Speaker 1>surprising to me that this is something that you would

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<v Speaker 1>spend your time on, but let's go ahead with it. So,

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<v Speaker 1>unbeknownst to me or inexplicably, I came to learn that

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein, mister Winingarten, had said something to mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>about his feelings for me. I did not raise those.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't raise those with mister Epstein. Mister Epstein raised

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<v Speaker 1>it with me. Question, I guess my question is this.

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<v Speaker 1>My question is were you aware that Epstein knew about

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<v Speaker 1>the relationship prior to the time that you became aware

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<v Speaker 1>that Gould became aware of the relationship Rumler. The answer

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<v Speaker 1>is I think I understand what you're asking an yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's why I forwarded this. And to be clear,

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<v Speaker 1>to be very clear, my relationship with mister Winegarten was

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<v Speaker 1>which has absolutely nothing to do with mister Epstein whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>Question he didn't introduce you or anything else like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer No, as I with apologies, I don't think you

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<v Speaker 1>were here a congressman. When I said this, he cold

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<v Speaker 1>called me out my law firm. I was an unmarried

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<v Speaker 1>person and mister Winegarten was an unmarried person. When I

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<v Speaker 1>received this email, it was out of the blue. I

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<v Speaker 1>was shocked and mortified, among other reactions. And the reason

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<v Speaker 1>that I forwarded it to Epstein is because Epstein had

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<v Speaker 1>raised with me that mister Winegarten had raised with him

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<v Speaker 1>his feelings toward me. Question last question in an earlier email,

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<v Speaker 1>and we can share this with you. You Basically, he

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<v Speaker 1>said to you on July ninth, twenty seventeen, can you

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<v Speaker 1>and I have a coffee or a meal with John

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<v Speaker 1>Brennan Runer? Yes? Question and in response you said that

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<v Speaker 1>would be fun. I think you would be scared off

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<v Speaker 1>because of your Google history. That was July ninth, twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>When did you become aware of Jeffrey Epstein's conviction for

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<v Speaker 1>child prostitution? Rumler? I became aware of it when he

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<v Speaker 1>pled guilty to two prostitution related offenses, including solicitation of

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<v Speaker 1>a minor for prosecution in or around July of twenty fourteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Question thank you, mister chrishmmrthy seeds to Representative Randall. Question,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, miss Rumler. Earlier this year, the Miami Herald

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<v Speaker 1>published the story describing how you work with Steve Bannon

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<v Speaker 1>and others in twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen two. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to use quotier to help counter the public narrative

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<v Speaker 1>that was forming against mister Epstein after The Herald's perversion

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<v Speaker 1>of justice investigation was published. What work did you do

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<v Speaker 1>with mister Bannon? Answer? I didn't do any work with

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<v Speaker 1>mister Bannon. Mister Bannon was someone who I met on

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<v Speaker 1>one or two occasions at business meetings, and I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>work with them on anything. Miss Randall, what's your understanding

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<v Speaker 1>of mister Epstein's relationship with mister Bannon? Answer? I didn't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they seem to be friendly, but I didn't know,

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<v Speaker 1>like beyond that question. So, do you have any knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>of mister Bannon ever acting as an intermediary between Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>and Donald Trump? Answer? I don't question. In text messages

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<v Speaker 1>from August of twenty eighteen between mister Ebstein and mister Bannon,

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein wrote, your girlfriend Ruemler is coming over. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you know why Epstein would refer to you in the

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<v Speaker 1>manner even jokingly? Rumler, lord knows, I have no idea question.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to list some names and for these individuals,

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<v Speaker 1>I would like to know if you were ever aware

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<v Speaker 1>of mister Ebstein or miss Max while introducing them to

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<v Speaker 1>any minor girls or young women for the purpose of

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<v Speaker 1>engaging in sexual activity. Kimball Musk answer, I'm not familiar

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<v Speaker 1>with that name, Randall. Elon Musk's brother Martin Noak Rumler,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry. Would you mind repeating the preface of the

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<v Speaker 1>question Randall, Yeah, if you have any knowledge of mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein or miss Maxwell introducing them to any minor women

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<v Speaker 1>or girls. Rumler, Okay, thank you question. I think you

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<v Speaker 1>can answer the question as a whole though, Roomner, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I can answer them. The answer with respect to mister

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<v Speaker 1>Noak is no. With respect to both Epstein and Maxwell Randall,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Branson answer no. David Copperfield answer no, David Blaine

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<v Speaker 1>answer no, Larry Summers answer no. Paulo Zampolli answer no,

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Mandelsson answer no, Henry Jureki, I'm sorry. Henry Dureki

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<v Speaker 1>answer no. Stephen Hansen answer no. Alan Dershowitz answer no,

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<v Speaker 1>Glenn Dubin answer no, Tom Pritzker answer no. And Edward

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<v Speaker 1>Brock answer no. Question. Thank you. I appreciate you answering. Roumner. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And just to clarify the record, I'm unaware of any

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<v Speaker 1>of that activity with respect to anyone at the time. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>as I understand, the allegations that have been put forth

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<v Speaker 1>by the Justice Department is that the activities involving mister

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<v Speaker 1>Ebstein and miss Maxwell predicated my knowing of mister Ebstein

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<v Speaker 1>by ten years at least so that's I have no

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of anything anything relating to those types of activities.

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Randall, thank you, mister Minn, thank you. So now

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<v Speaker 1>we have mister min asking the questions. Miss Rumler, I

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<v Speaker 1>know it's been a long day, Fishman. That means it

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like it's over. Congressman. That's fine, that would be great. Men.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how much longer, but I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>switch to Brad Karp and your relationship with him. How

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<v Speaker 1>long have you known mister Karp Rumler? Probably fifteen years? Question?

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<v Speaker 1>Fifteen years so around twenty eleven, twenty ten, Roomler, Yeah, men,

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<v Speaker 1>And how did you first meet him? Was it a

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<v Speaker 1>professional personal Roomler? Professional? Question? Working on a case together? Interacting? Rumler?

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Karp is a very prominent member of the legal community,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was the chairman of Men Paul Weiss Rumler,

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Weiss and I had multiple friends who were partners

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<v Speaker 1>at Paul White Also, men, can you remind me where

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<v Speaker 1>you were again in twenty eleven, twenty ten? I apologize answer.

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<v Speaker 1>I was working at the White House at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>mister min at the White House, okay, got it? And like,

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<v Speaker 1>how often did you interact with him over that time. Rumler,

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<v Speaker 1>I knew Brad, but I came to The only memory

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<v Speaker 1>I have of an interaction with him is when I

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<v Speaker 1>was leaving the White House to go back to the

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<v Speaker 1>private sector. I spoke to a couple of law firms

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<v Speaker 1>and Paul Weiss was one of them, and Paul Weiss

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<v Speaker 1>was recruiting me to join the law firm, and I

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<v Speaker 1>spoke with him quite a bit in that context. Men,

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<v Speaker 1>And did you continue to speak with them after that

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<v Speaker 1>point in time? Rumler? Yeah, question professionally or Roumler professionally.

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<v Speaker 1>Question did you have any discussion or interaction relating to

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Epstein with mister Karp? Answer? Yeah. I was aware

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<v Speaker 1>that Brad Karp knew Epstein in a very similar way

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<v Speaker 1>that I knew mister Epstein in the sense that he

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<v Speaker 1>had a client in the form of Apollo. Mister Black

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<v Speaker 1>was the chairman and CEO of Apollo, and mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>had a business relationship with with mister Black. Similarly, I

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<v Speaker 1>had a client relationship with the Rothschild Bank and mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein had a separate business relationship with the bank. That

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<v Speaker 1>was my understanding of how mister Carp knew mister Epstein,

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<v Speaker 1>mister minn. And in twenty fourteen there's an email from

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Epstein saying that he was introduced to you by

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<v Speaker 1>mister Carp. Is that something that you would agree with, Rumler,

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<v Speaker 1>that gets cut off by min Mister Epstein introduced you

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<v Speaker 1>to mister Carp, Rumler. No, mister Epstein just cold called

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<v Speaker 1>my firm. Min He co called your firm, Rumler. If

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<v Speaker 1>mister Carp had recommended me in some way, shape or form,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that. Men. But you were introduced gets

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<v Speaker 1>cut off by Rumler. No, we were not introduced, No men.

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<v Speaker 1>And so after that time when you were introduced or

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<v Speaker 1>when mister Epstein called you over the next I guess

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<v Speaker 1>what five six years, how often would you when mister

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<v Speaker 1>Carp discuss Epstein, Like once a week, once a month,

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<v Speaker 1>once a year, Rumler, Oh gosh, no, I would say

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<v Speaker 1>very rarely. At some point in time, I think I

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier, Congressman, when you weren't in the room, that

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<v Speaker 1>my observation was Epstein tried to make himself relevant men.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard you say that, Rumler, okay, connecting people, and

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<v Speaker 1>at that point or some point, I think he tried

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<v Speaker 1>to make himself relevant by talking to mister Carp about

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<v Speaker 1>recruiting me to leave Latham and go to Paul Weiss.

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Minn. Just the last couple questions here, did you

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<v Speaker 1>communicate with mister Carp. Actually, I'll preface this by saying

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<v Speaker 1>I have at least three emails saying I don't have

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<v Speaker 1>the documents here, so would you have to take my

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<v Speaker 1>word on this. But on February twenty second, twenty nineteen,

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<v Speaker 1>you were on an email with mister Carp that's sent

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<v Speaker 1>by mister Epstein updating you and mister Carp on developments

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<v Speaker 1>in a lawsuit with one of his alleged victims. And

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<v Speaker 1>on March third, twenty nineteen email you were copied. Mister

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<v Speaker 1>Carr provided legal advice to Epstein, including regarding protecting his

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight plea deal, and in March thirty

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<v Speaker 1>first of twenty eighteen email exchange, you advised mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>on certain steps he might take consider taking following a

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<v Speaker 1>lawsuit against him. How often did you and mister Carp

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<v Speaker 1>communicate about Epstein, and in particular about legal strategy or

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<v Speaker 1>legal advice during the period. Is that the entirety of

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<v Speaker 1>it or was there more rumler my. Again. My observation

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<v Speaker 1>was that Epstein would ask me and other lawyers who

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<v Speaker 1>he knew their views. It was sort of like a

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<v Speaker 1>shotgun approach. It's one of the reasons I would have

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<v Speaker 1>thought if he were my client, he would have been

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<v Speaker 1>a maddening client because he shopped around. Okay, you knew Brad,

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<v Speaker 1>Let me ask Brad what he thinks. I know, Kathy,

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<v Speaker 1>Let me ask Kathy what she thinks. That was my

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<v Speaker 1>observation of the way that he engaged with mister carp

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<v Speaker 1>and the way that he engaged with me. Mister min

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<v Speaker 1>I'm told we're out of time, so thank you for

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<v Speaker 1>your time. Redacted. We'll go off record. All right, folks,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next

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<v Speaker 1>episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where

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<v Speaker 1>we left off. All the information that goes with this

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<v Speaker 1>episode can be found in the description box.