WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.160 I've heard people say getting atheists together is like herting cats, 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.799 or if you've got three atheists in a room, you've 3 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:12.640 got four opinions on something. You just can't get free 4 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:16.760 thinkers to organize. Well, I think that's crap. Not only 5 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:21.239 not only can atheists organize, but we have to now 6 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:24.519 more than ever. We need to come together to build thriving, diverse, 7 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:28.559 and functioning communities. And for that we need good leaders 8 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:32.479 to get that, we need classes that teach us how 9 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:34.920 to lead. So good news, our guest today is going 10 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.679 to tell us how we can do this and how 11 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:39.560 you can help build the next generation of secular leaders. 12 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.600 But hey, if you think atheist community is a bad idea, 13 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.159 give us a call because the show's starting right now. 14 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:53.520 Whooh, what is up? 15 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.079 Everybody? Thank you, thank you so much for joining us. 16 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:01.119 Today is April fifth, twenty twenty s and that's right. 17 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:05.879 I am your host, the Secular Jesus Christ. I appreciate 18 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:09.439 all of you for joining us today. I have spent 19 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:14.359 the last few days fighting my way out of both 20 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:18.200 a linen cloth that I do hope my followers will 21 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.319 find in the future and know of my presence, as 22 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:22.879 well as. 23 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:25.040 Rolling a very large boulder out of the way. 24 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.120 So I'm very proud that I have I have come 25 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.519 back to you this this second time, and I just 26 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:33.280 want to say that. 27 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.400 All of your sins are forgiven on this holiest of days. 28 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.640 So thank you so much, folks for joining with us today. 29 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:45.560 I'm really really excited that we are going to have 30 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.719 a fun show. And not only are we we doing 31 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.719 this on YouTube, but we're actually try streaming, is what 32 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:54.879 I have been told. Now I am not hip enough 33 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.719 to know exactly what that means, but that tells me 34 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:02.840 that we are on TikTok YouTube mobile and just your 35 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:07.319 regular horizontal YouTube show. So we will actually be checking 36 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.240 on TikTok. And if you'd like to talk to us, 37 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:12.560 just request to join and we'll bring you up on stage. 38 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:15.159 Just make sure that you are eighteen years of age 39 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:20.360 before doing so. Worth noting that this wonderful show, The 40 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.759 Atheist Experience, is a product of the Atheist Community of Austin, 41 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.199 a five to one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to 42 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.680 the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the 43 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:34.800 separation of religion and government. I think all of those 44 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:39.759 things are absolutely freaking wonderful. And I'm wondering if we could, 45 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:44.000 if we could get our awesome, awesome backup host up here. Today, 46 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:47.159 we have somebody super cool with me, somebody that I 47 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:50.120 have never made fun of on this show or any 48 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:51.199 others whatsoever. 49 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:54.319 It is Sophia, what's up? Hello? 50 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:58.319 I mean you, I guess you better not make fun 51 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:01.560 of me behind my back. You do, please do it 52 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:03.400 to my face so that I can also enjoy. 53 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.280 Yes, yes, that's really what it is, you know. And 54 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:11.280 that's what friends do. Friends tell each other to their faces. Hey, 55 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:14.879 please stop that, man, it's really annoying. Nobody enjoys this, 56 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:19.520 by the way, and like, and you know, not to 57 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:25.800 like anybody in particular Kevin, but just throwing this out there, okay, 58 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.039 Like when you grill stuff a lot of times. 59 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:32.280 Like you, you like, don't season it a bunch, you know. 60 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:34.599 And and all that we're asking is when we come 61 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:38.039 over on Thursdays for the monthly thing, if you could 62 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.759 just maybe just let us just let us do it once, 63 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:42.680 you know, Like I know how to grill, A lot 64 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:43.560 of us know how to cook. 65 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:44.000 I just. 66 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:46.719 No one in particular. 67 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:50.319 You know, Kevin is the most generic white dude name 68 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:54.039 I can think of and so it's just like some 69 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:56.919 generic white dude isn't seasoning grilled meat? 70 00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:58.039 That's a shot. 71 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.039 Yeah, I know, who would thought the. 72 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:03.840 Number of pevens that that applied to. 73 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.360 So many people feel called out right now. 74 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.199 It's really going to think you are Jesus I that you. 75 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.919 I prophesy, that's right, Yeah, I am here. 76 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:18.360 For it prophecy or just an observation of the thing. 77 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:21.199 Yeah, it's probably just like just an accurate description of 78 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.199 the world that we live in, you know, fortunately or unfortunately. 79 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:28.199 But the good news is that we we are not 80 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:31.480 here to to cook, we are not here to to grill. 81 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.000 We well, I mean, maybe we'll grill a little, you know, 82 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:37.519 if they're if they've got bad, bad ideas or bad arguments, 83 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:39.000 maybe we'll grill a little. 84 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.319 So, and don't the cool kids say like cooking, like that's. 85 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:46.639 A good thing, like cooking or yeah, cooking or both slaying. 86 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.480 Yeah they're both. Yeah, cooked and cooking right are both. 87 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:54.000 They're they're the terminologies that the young ends are using. 88 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:58.240 Is that does that already make me even older than 89 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:00.399 I am? Just by saying the young ens old? 90 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.959 Yeah, old, I believe so you are an olden an. 91 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:08.879 Olden but a good that's an okay. 92 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:13.560 Yeah, I feel like I'm you know, ah, I was 93 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.040 just gonna say. The crew is like just furiously shaking 94 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:16.879 their heads right now. 95 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.759 It's just very disappointed with us. It's not why people 96 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:23.120 tune into the show, you know what. 97 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:24.399 That's okay, that's all right. 98 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.120 There is a reason that people tune into this show though, 99 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.240 and one of those reasons is because we get some 100 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:34.639 calls from people who have arguments for you know, the 101 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.040 existence of a God or the supernatural things, and we 102 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:41.360 are open to having our minds changed. I am willing 103 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:46.000 to change my position if if I am presented with 104 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.399 some good stuff. And of all days, of all days, 105 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:52.160 I think this is is a good day for us 106 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:54.399 to get some arguments for the existence of God. 107 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:54.959 What do you think? 108 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:56.720 Yeah, I think that's a great idea. 109 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.439 I mean, if you're gonna be saved, why not on 110 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:02.120 Zombie Jesus Chocolate Day. 111 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:02.560 I'm sorry. 112 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:04.959 I know we're supposed to really own that, like Easter 113 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:09.319 is an atheist pagan thing, but I just think Zombie 114 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.360 Jesus Chocolate Day is cute. 115 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:13.959 I Like, I really enjoy that, and I wish they 116 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:19.040 would do chocolate Easter bunnies and like Jesus Easter chocolate things, 117 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:20.839 you know, like that would be super fun. 118 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:23.480 You know, just imagine a little almost statue of Jesus 119 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:24.800 like that. But all time have you. 120 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:27.000 Seen those little like I see them everywhere now, these 121 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.240 little plastic Jesus is. 122 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.040 Oh yeah, I've got one somewhere on my desk actually 123 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:32.399 there where. 124 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.160 I've seen them, in a public toilet, I've seen them. Like, 125 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:36.279 at some point, this has. 126 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.879 Gotta feel sacrilegious, right, this has gotta feel weird to 127 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:40.519 the people who are holding on to it. 128 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:44.040 So okay, so since you brought it up, I will 129 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:48.240 throw this out there. I feel like at some point 130 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:51.120 in the Bible, and I don't remember where entirely, but 131 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:56.680 there was like a like a list of like seven 132 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.680 eight nine something like that, like what I guess, like 133 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.160 commands I guess if you would, And one of those 134 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:09.600 specifically was something about like graven images or idols or 135 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:10.800 I think that. 136 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.279 I'm sure it doesn't apply to you know, evangelicals putting 137 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.279 you know, non biodegradable bits into also plastic Easter eggs 138 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.199 that are probably made in you know, shops around the 139 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.879 world that are inhumane in their labor practices. 140 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.040 I'm sure no, I'm. 141 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:31.120 Sure there's nothing about that practice at all that that 142 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.839 in any way, shape or form could be viewed as 143 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:38.000 anti biblical or yeah, yeah, and. 144 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:42.879 Hey, you know what is worse the I was sorry, 145 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:44.480 so many things went through my head that became so 146 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.800 potentially problematic to say on air. But I was just 147 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.560 gonna sort of generally vaguely gesture toward the uh, toward 148 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:53.000 the left. They're bad, They're worse anyway, no matter, no 149 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:53.800 matter what is done. 150 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.480 But yes, yes it is true. 151 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:58.920 But insert there all the inappropriate things I. 152 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:02.680 Could have said. That you right, thinking, if you're a listener, yeah. 153 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.720 Right, right right, absolutely, absolutely. 154 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.879 Well, we do have some wonderful, wonderful calls that are 155 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.199 already coming in, and I am very excited to go to. 156 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:13.680 Some of these. 157 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:19.120 What if we grab a call real quick and then 158 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:21.680 we will bring on our awesome special guest and talk 159 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.160 about some cool things that we can do to get 160 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:25.199 secular leadership going. 161 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.199 What do you think? Sofia, Sure sounds great. 162 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:28.639 I'm happy to stay here for the first call. 163 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:30.759 Let's do it. I want to take a call with 164 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:32.480 you because I think this one will be fun. 165 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:34.279 We are gonna go all together. 166 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:36.679 I know, right, this is a big deal. This is like, 167 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:38.960 this is you know, one year from now, we'll remember this. 168 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:44.120 We have Steve in Ohio no pronouns given, as a 169 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:47.799 theist and wants to talk about some biblical prophecies. 170 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:48.559 I'm into it. 171 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.840 Steve, you are on the atheist experience with Sophia and secularity. 172 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:53.320 What's up? 173 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:55.639 Thank you, Thank you for having me on the show. 174 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.759 I appreciate that. Yeah, I was the current events for 175 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:01.000 everything going on, and I figured i'd give you a 176 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:06.360 call and give you my insight. So yeah, I don't know, Okay, 177 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:11.200 yeah you know, Daniel, chapter eight, I've been looking eyeballing 178 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.440 that story for a long time, like thirty thirty years, 179 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:16.879 thirty plus. So I got kind of stuck on it 180 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:21.519 because as it was about, I thought our country. But anyways, yeah, 181 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:23.960 so that's where where we're at. So I don't know 182 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:25.759 where we're going to. I know a lot about it, 183 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:27.039 so I don't know where to go from here. So 184 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:28.960 it's Daniel, great, Yeah. 185 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.240 Yeah, no worries, that's already that's already a decent a 186 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:34.480 decent spot. And so like let me, let me just 187 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:36.919 let me just see if I if I'm following with 188 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.360 you here, it sounds like what you're saying is like 189 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:44.360 this passage in the Bible is kind of referencing some 190 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.639 of the things that we're seeing going on today in 191 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:52.960 the world and in the Middle East, And yeah, absolutely 192 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:57.320 is is is it? Is there ever really a time 193 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:01.960 in the history of humanity where we couldn't make that connection, 194 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:06.039 like like, let's say, like one hundred and fifty years ago, Like, 195 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:08.360 do you think it would be fair that somebody one 196 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.519 hundred and fifty years ago could look at that passage 197 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:12.759 and then go, wow, the stuff that's happening right now 198 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:13.480 in the Middle East? 199 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:17.840 No, Like, no, really, that flies there's a flying goat 200 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.080 that goes across the whole earth that says in the 201 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:24.159 story it's to be two spirit and it goes over 202 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.200 there and attacks the ram and then it returns without 203 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:29.039 over touching the ground. 204 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:31.519 Second, hang on just a second for me, Okay, I 205 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:32.799 just want to make sure we're on the I just 206 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:34.240 want to try to be on the same page as 207 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:36.000 most as much as possible. So I'm sorry, I don't 208 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.720 I don't want to fight or anything but clarify. 209 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.240 It's something wrong. You could tell me what you need. 210 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.039 Okay, yeah, no, no, no, no, I just I just want 211 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.679 to understand. Like when you say there's like a goat 212 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:48.279 flying and it attacks a ram, are you talking about 213 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:52.039 like actual animals? Like, is there an actual goat that's flying? 214 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:55.360 Yeah, I am actually talking about a flying goat. It's 215 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.679 in Daniel chapter eight. It talks about a goat that 216 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:01.360 crosses the whole this is out touching the ground. It's 217 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:02.080 in verse five. 218 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:02.799 Okay. 219 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:06.399 And and and it's a king too. It's our first king, 220 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:08.960 it says. And that was interesting that he said that. 221 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:12.320 Okay, Well, hang on, hang on, hang on, just real quick, Steve. 222 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:13.519 I want to make I want to I want to 223 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:15.960 make sure we're on the same page again. I get 224 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.559 that you're I get that what you're referencing is talking 225 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:23.480 about a goat that flies. And I'm asking you do 226 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.519 you think that goats can fly? And do you think 227 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.320 one is currently doing that towards the Middle East? 228 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:30.799 Absolute? 229 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.960 And so so hang on, no, hold on, hold right there, 230 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:35.639 that's a beautiful, beautiful place. 231 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.600 That's a beautiful spot. Just to just to pause, Sophia, 232 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:40.200 is there anything. 233 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:44.639 That statement that. 234 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:45.799 That you think is kind of off? 235 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.279 Is there anything about that statement, Sofia, you're a little 236 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:50.919 confused about that. 237 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:55.519 They're that a literal goat is flying through the sky, and. 238 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.600 Okay, okay, well just a second ago you said you 239 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:01.639 thought it's could fly and there was one fly. 240 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.000 No, I'm saying no, no, I'm saying, well, I'm sorry, 241 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:07.240 symbolic it's the flying true spirit, is what I was saying. 242 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:07.879 I did say that. 243 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:09.480 Okay, it's okay, Okay. 244 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.159 It's even got the face on it. If you look 245 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.720 at the face, it's got eyes, mouth, nose. Now, it's okay. 246 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.279 Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. 247 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:19.840 Okay, just to be clear, Just to be clear, you're 248 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.399 not saying that the actual animal a goat, that thing 249 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:26.039 with like the hair and the ba and the and 250 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:27.440 the hoofs and the horns. 251 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:28.840 You're not saying that's flying. 252 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:33.240 What you're saying is that is referencing a plane that 253 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.399 the United States is currently sending over to the Middle East. 254 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:41.200 Yes, they even Why would hang the name. 255 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:42.799 Hang on, hang on, hang on. I'm with you, Steve. 256 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:43.320 We don't have to. 257 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:47.559 We can go one at a time. Why do you 258 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.159 make that connection? What about that passage that makes you 259 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.960 makes you think it's referencing this thing. 260 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:58.360 Now, okay, because the story in verse seventeen and nineteen 261 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.320 says it's time of the end. Okay, So we're at 262 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.480 the end of the age right now. That's number one. 263 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:08.200 And the question according yeah, what what age are we ending? 264 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:09.039 And according to what? 265 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:12.519 Well, according to the story here, we're at the end 266 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.879 of the age, it says. Okay. And just one other 267 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:19.519 thing is that word fury is in verse six and 268 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:24.720 that's epic to me. Okay, it's we're attacking them right now. 269 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:27.919 And okay, but it came to a two horned ram. 270 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:30.679 What is the two horned ram that the one horn 271 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.000 is attacking? 272 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:33.919 It's a needing okay. 273 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:38.360 So you're thinking the supreme leader in the present go ahead, okay. 274 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.399 So you're thinking that the two horned ram is Iran? 275 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:43.399 Is that what I'm gathering here? 276 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.159 And Multipower say all this, Actually you asked me questions, 277 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.000 so I don't know what you want me. You know, yes, 278 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:49.600 you're right there. 279 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.600 Yeah, we're not talking about specific political parties. 280 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:53.039 Are you saying? 281 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.039 This is just resented that a country exists in the world. 282 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.559 I appreciate your caution though, okay. And the ram is 283 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.639 parerless stand against it. So it does seem like but 284 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:05.759 then the goat became very great. 285 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.080 At the head of its paradolage horn was broken off. 286 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.919 Yes, and in its place, four prominent horns grew up 287 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:12.440 toward the four winds of heaven. 288 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:15.639 Yes, is it four planes? Is it like? 289 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.799 No? No, that that the goat. Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry, 290 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:21.039 I didn't I didn't know. I think you're asking me 291 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:21.480 to go ahead. 292 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:23.840 No, just like, connect these for me, because because you're mentioning, 293 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:26.679 there's rage. And then we skip down to verse seventeen. 294 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.440 So like some of the stuff in the middle, though, 295 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.200 it gets a little little, a little crazy. 296 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.639 So yeah, connect these things from me. 297 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.000 Okay, I'll try my best. It is he has a 298 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.039 vision and the angel on the second half of the 299 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:42.200 story clears it up for him, basically tells them where 300 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.600 all the symbols were. So it is a little more 301 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:47.480 complicated than your average story, but it comes because it 302 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.159 comes in two parts, which you can see it would 303 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.399 be verse The one that we're in right now is 304 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:56.120 verse six and seven. We're attacking them right now, is 305 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.399 great this moment, and verse eight is what I'm worried about. 306 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.639 That's comes after this, we win the war and then 307 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.559 verse eight is next, and that's the Goat's very great 308 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.080 and when he was stronger, the great horn was broken 309 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:10.679 and four came up for it. So basically, our kingdom 310 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.720 gets broken up, much like Alexander the Great. We're repeating 311 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.279 time in the sense, I guess. 312 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:16.679 I guess. 313 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:18.600 So it could have applied to Alexander the Great. 314 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:19.720 Oh good question. 315 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:21.559 Well, yeah, it's time to the end though, yeah, the good. 316 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.519 Yeah, why why did you do you think that this 317 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:26.279 applied to Alexander the Great? 318 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.759 The scholars throughout the years always said that, but it 319 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.399 is time of the end. It says twice actually, and 320 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:35.279 it makes it very clear. But they said, you know, 321 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.759 for years it's Alexander the Great and we are Alexander 322 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:42.000 is much like us. We're the modern Greece. Okay, we're 323 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.039 from the west on the Western hemisphere from the time. 324 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.639 Just a second, hang on, just second. I'm sorry, Steve, 325 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:48.440 I just I just love to I love to try 326 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:50.080 to keep these as focused as possible. 327 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:51.759 You know, yes, no problem. 328 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:57.559 The problem that I have is that I am familiar 329 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:58.720 with this passage. 330 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:00.000 I'm familiar with this. 331 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.840 Whole scene here and Daniel, but The reason that I'm 332 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.039 familiar with it is because when I was growing up, 333 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.919 the United States and other countries engaged in various military 334 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:14.960 operations in Iraq. 335 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:18.080 I watched it ahead of it. 336 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.600 And so I was told that this applied to that. 337 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:26.320 So are those people wrong, and if they are, why 338 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:27.519 are you irrect? 339 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:30.960 Well, okay, I watched all the wars. I'm sixty two, 340 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.480 so I saw it from ninety one on through two 341 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:35.559 thousand and three. I saw it all, and I wondered 342 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:38.960 about the same thing at the time. Okay, but I 343 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.559 do keep patient. I just moll things over until I 344 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.600 get the answer. And I got the answers now. But yeah, 345 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.440 I know what you're saying. It can be like, well 346 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:48.919 is that Iraq? What do we do the same thing? 347 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.840 We did something similar. The difference is we went over 348 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:55.159 the Atlantic this way. We came from the West before 349 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.279 we went the other way over the Pacific when we 350 00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.360 attacked Iraq, wouldn't be two spirit. 351 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:06.160 Just just to be clear, are you saying that the 352 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:11.039 main reason that you believe this passage in Daniel refers 353 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.160 to the current situation we're experiencing in the world, and 354 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:20.359 not earlier times like in two thousand and four, two 355 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.799 thousand and three, whatever is because we came from a 356 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:24.759 different direction. 357 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.440 Do you really believe that that. 358 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.640 Is something that is a valuable piece of information for 359 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:32.400 determining the truth of this prophecy? 360 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.599 Alexa said, Alexa, I'm sorry it says Persa though a 361 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.119 person we know is in Iraq. 362 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:45.200 We know that, and Greece, so we're not saying that. 363 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:48.720 So we're saying that we are the Kingdom of Greece, 364 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:50.599 but it's saying it's Persia, and we're holding on to 365 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.119 Persia and saying that that's literally Persia, but we're not 366 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.000 literally Greece Greece. 367 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.599 So it kind of feels like it's twenty five hundred 368 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.880 years ago. He didn't say it was a man. I mean, 369 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:02.759 he couldn't have said that. It would be you know, 370 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:03.119 you know. 371 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:05.680 That why not he? 372 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.400 But God was inspiring us? 373 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.039 And why not Kazakhstan? Why not any other country? For 374 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.039 we've attacked lots of other countries. Yeah, but I'm saying that, 375 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.559 like we, they also would not have had knowledge of that. 376 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.119 So for saying Greece can be America, then I guess 377 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.319 Persia could also be Mongolia, it could be Ethiopia, could 378 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.240 be whatever other place the author didn't know of at 379 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:26.599 the time. 380 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.799 You know, in front of you, this is going on 381 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:30.400 right now. 382 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:35.000 Do you think it's possible. It's it's a really basic question. 383 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:38.680 It's a really basic question, just a yes or no. 384 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:41.759 Do you think it's possible that you're mistaken? 385 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:42.200 Steve? 386 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.359 No, and I would lay anything about Okay, hang on 387 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:48.759 it cool, then I can I can just mute you 388 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.519 for a second so I can say this, which is 389 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:58.640 I tend to as as a knee jerk reaction. When 390 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.559 somebody tells me they are one, one hundred percent confident 391 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:06.400 they can't be mistaken, I tend to not believe them 392 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:09.960 right now. That's not a fantastic methodology on my part, 393 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.519 but the history of the world has showed me anytime 394 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.039 somebody makes that bold of a claim that they could 395 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:20.799 not absolutely could not be mistaken, I can find a 396 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:25.240 billion frickin' examples really quick when they're just wrong. And 397 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:29.000 so I think unless you have something a bit more 398 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:32.799 concrete other than I just kind of feel like this, 399 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.240 I'm gonna move on to somebody else because I think 400 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.160 we do have some other people that might be able 401 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.920 to present some things, But so far I don't know 402 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.119 why I should listen to you more than I should 403 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:47.440 the people that I didn't listen to back in the 404 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:52.359 early two thousands, and also, by the way, didn't listen 405 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.240 to any of the people talking about all this stuff 406 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:56.920 through the Crusades and just all the way back through 407 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.400 human history. So yeah, I don't know, Steve, gonna bring 408 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.319 you back on. I don't have high hopes. I would 409 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:05.599 love if when I bring you back on, there's going 410 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:07.759 to be a beep and after that beep. I would 411 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.039 love if you could say, look, here is a really 412 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.440 solid piece of evidence that shows that that passage in 413 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:19.400 Daniel was connected to today. Okay, that that would be 414 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.599 just awesome for me. So I'm gonna pull you back in. 415 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.039 It should beep alittle. But what what is the most 416 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.799 convincing thing, the most convincing thing that connects this passage 417 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:31.839 in Daniel to today? 418 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:37.160 Okay to today? See you the lamb eighty eight. God's 419 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.039 hiding it right in front of you. Know who Cede 420 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.799 Lamb is. It's number eighty eight. Back to the future 421 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.359 they go at eighty eight, they vanished. There's a lot 422 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.759 more to this than you think. 423 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:51.319 Everything's converted talking about Ceedee Lamb, the football receiver. 424 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.240 You're talking about. It's right, yeah, eighty eight. Yep. 425 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:56.839 Do you know why he is eighty eight? 426 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.240 You what? 427 00:20:59.559 --> 00:20:59.799 Do you know? 428 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:02.559 What? 429 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:03.039 What's up? 430 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:05.000 Do you know why his number is eighty eight? 431 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:05.960 Yeah? 432 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:07.880 Actually I do. I haven't written right here, Ceedee Lamb, 433 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.240 where's number eighty eight? To honor the legacy of past 434 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.400 cowboy grace like Drew Pearson, Michael Irvin so on. He 435 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:15.559 wanted number ten though. 436 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:20.200 Yeah, but even he admitted it. It has nothing to 437 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:22.160 do with the thing you're claiming it does. 438 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:24.119 I'm just saying it's hide in plain sight. 439 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.240 And also, but I'm. 440 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.880 Just saying that you're just saying you're just making that up, Steve, 441 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.759 And you know that you just admitted that you know this. 442 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.400 You just admitted right there that you know that that's 443 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.119 not true. Come on, man, you're better than this, Steve. 444 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:39.640 I know you are. Man. 445 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.799 Okay, one last thing, one last thing, okay, l after 446 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:46.559 the war is done here we win this thing. We 447 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.559 have number eighty eight. Our great horn will be broken. 448 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:52.960 That is the Washington National Monument. It's going to be 449 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.480 taken off. Now one stone will lay upon another that 450 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.880 will not be thrown down. 451 00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:58.559 Even in the. 452 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:04.119 Passage you're bringing up, the horn doesn't represent a little horn. 453 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.160 It represents the four nations that become. So like we're 454 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.160 really playing fast and loose with the literal and the figurative. 455 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:12.880 And you know what, I've been sitting here, I think 456 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:15.480 that this is actually referring to Queen Elizabeth the first 457 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:16.920 breaking of the Spanish Armada. 458 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.720 That may applies. 459 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:21.079 Really well because then the you know, then the United 460 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.920 king United Kingdom or the British Empire ended up breaking 461 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.799 up after it, you know, rained from that. 462 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:28.359 So you know, I actually think it's that. 463 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.599 Yeah, And there's good in verse eleven two, by the way, 464 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:34.079 I'm sure you know this, Steve. It says it set 465 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.240 itself up to be as great as the commander of 466 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:38.359 the army of the Lord. It took away the daily 467 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.440 sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 468 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.359 Now that relates perfectly to everything Sophia just said with 469 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:45.240 Queen Elizabeth. 470 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.079 I mean, how can you disagree with that. 471 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.839 It's a rise of the Antichrist. It comes after Ada, 472 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.680 our nation gets broken, and then all hell breaks loose 473 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:53.319 in this four on. 474 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.759 Steve, I appreciate you because I had a fun time 475 00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.319 with that. I don't feel like we made much progress, 476 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:01.240 which is why I got you muted right now, and 477 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:02.279 I'm just gonna let you go. 478 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.319 But here's good news. I love something tangible. 479 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.720 It sounded to me like you said, the Washington Monument 480 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.319 is gonna frick and topple. 481 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.160 That is a testable future prediction. 482 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:15.640 Baby. 483 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.200 That is brand h brand new. 484 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:20.440 And you know what, Steve, I look forward to your 485 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:23.119 call at the end of twenty twenty six, when either 486 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:27.160 it has or has not happened. Until then, though, see 487 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.720 if you can find some more good reasons to connect 488 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:32.799 biblical prophecy. I am not convinced by that, guys, I 489 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.519 don't know about you. 490 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:34.960 I am not either. 491 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:37.960 I came up with a bunch of different examples too. 492 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.640 I was like, honestly, this could refer to any colonial power, 493 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.839 Like I was just it was sort of fun to 494 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.359 just be like, what could this right? 495 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:44.960 Right? 496 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.000 Or maybe it actually has to do with On the 497 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:50.640 Hills when Laura, when there's like that drama between the 498 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.200 two main leads on the Hills and it's just like 499 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.119 you know, reality TV and the mid Odds was crazy, 500 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.480 So there's a lot of like breaking up into different 501 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:01.200 you know, casts and groups. 502 00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:03.720 It just actually, oh my god, we should we should 503 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.039 see if we could connect biblical prophecies to different reality 504 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:08.079 TV shows and stuff. 505 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:08.920 That would actually be right. 506 00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.319 Oh, I could do that in a heartbeat. 507 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.640 Yeah, I mean maybe that's what I should do for 508 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.599 the twenty four fundraise. I would be that would That's 509 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:16.119 what I'm gonna do. 510 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.640 Here's here's what I'm thinking. 511 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.559 If if you're cool with it, Sophia, I am going 512 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:23.960 to talk to doctor Daryl Ray about this awesome new 513 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.599 thing he's got going, and you can start working on 514 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.599 that in the background, and we'll pull you on when 515 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:29.519 we need some more help. 516 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.319 With calls afect. You are awesome. 517 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.880 Thank you so much, and I am thrilled because I 518 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.640 am here with the legend himself, Doctor Daryl Ray. 519 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:42.920 Hey man, what is up? 520 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:45.720 Well? What is up? As you're trying to ussert my 521 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:48.440 position in the universe. I am the high Priest of 522 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:51.279 the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and you have 523 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:54.759 tried to usurp my place. So I'm just warning you 524 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.559 no beer in Spaghetting Monster Heaven if you're not careful. 525 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:03.240 I repair I repent. I forgot how close you were 526 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:04.720 to his newly appendage. 527 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:12.400 Yes, yes, all right, good, well, I do want to 528 00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:16.680 add something for Sophia. I don't know if and the caller, 529 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:20.240 because it's an interesting book. It's called When Prophecy Fails, 530 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.680 and it was written way back in like nineteen fifty six, 531 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:28.359 but it's a documentation of how a cult got started 532 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.799 and the prophecies that came from that cult, and what 533 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:34.880 happened when the prophecies didn't come through the cult continue. 534 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:41.200 It still exists today despite multiple prophecies failing time after time. Yeah, anyway, 535 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.119 it's a it's a really interesting book because it looks 536 00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:47.039 at the social psychology of the kinds of things that 537 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.079 the caller was talking about. He was one hundred percent certain, 538 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:53.559 wasn't he? And yet so were the people in the 539 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.559 in the book that I'm mentioning. 540 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.640 Right, right, and we've got and there's just so many 541 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.160 different examples of and we see. I even remember, right 542 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:04.599 around the time I was graduating from high school, there 543 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:09.519 was this big billboard campaign in my area where this 544 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.079 preacher had predicted the end of the world, like like 545 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.319 two days before graduation or something, and so like the 546 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.559 whole big joke going around the school was like, well, 547 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:19.759 we really don't have to finish our classes because you know, 548 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:21.319 we're all going to die anyway. 549 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.039 The world's gonna end. It didn't happen, though, it didn't happen. 550 00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:26.440 Was that the twenty twelve Rapture Day? 551 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.200 Yep, yep, yep, yep. 552 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.680 Yeah, we had. We had an entire conference around It's 553 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:35.440 called Rapture Day Conference, a whole conference built around that 554 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.039 one thing. It was a lot of fun. That's awesome, 555 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.480 in which you talk Kansas, That's where the conference was. 556 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:42.440 That's awesome. 557 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:46.599 Well, speaking of speaking of a book, you you had 558 00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:49.559 mentioned that that great book when Prophecy Fails. I had 559 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.319 heard you had written something with a with a couple 560 00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:57.039 of other really cool authors that got picked up by 561 00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:58.960 like Harvard or something. 562 00:26:59.000 --> 00:26:59.880 What was that? 563 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.119 Yeah, well we, yeah, my colleague David teach Out and 564 00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.599 I wrote a chapter for a book that's going to 565 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:10.680 come out next month from Oxford University Press at Oxford 566 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:11.400 in Oxford. 567 00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:14.680 That's awesome, man, that's awesome. And then did I. 568 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.519 Did I hear right that that Harvard caught wind of 569 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:20.240 it and you're doing a talk there. 570 00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.039 So yeah, we're there's a symposium on religious Trauma that 571 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:27.359 I'll be speaking I'm invited to speak at and that'll 572 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.279 happen a week from Friday, this Friday, almost two weeks 573 00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.680 from now. That's so it's a free conference. If you're 574 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:35.480 in the Boston area, you can you can come and 575 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:38.759 listen to the talk. But I'll be talking on religious 576 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:39.880 trauma and your brain. 577 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.279 That is amazing. 578 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.440 And here's a cold thing. It's at Harvard Divinity School. 579 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:50.640 No way, no freaking way, Harmon Trinity School is going 580 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:52.559 to let you talk on religious trauma. 581 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.960 Oh my yes, right, and David's David's doing a second talk, 582 00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:59.160 so between the two of us, we'll have two talks there. 583 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:01.200 That is freaking awesome. 584 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:04.720 I was lucky enough to get to meet David last 585 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:09.559 year and absolutely wonderful dude. And I am so I'm 586 00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:12.720 so bummed I don't live. This is maybe the one 587 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:13.680 time I can say this. 588 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:14.039 I am. 589 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.000 I am super bummed that I don't live a little 590 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:21.799 bit over the Mason Dixon line. So I'm a Southern 591 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:25.920 boy for sure. But you know, I want people to 592 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.720 hear about this really, really awesome thing that you have 593 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.079 just recently created, which for anybody who's not aware of 594 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:39.039 doctor Daryl Ray's insane history in this space. He is 595 00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.839 the founder of both Recovering from Religion and the Secular 596 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:48.440 Therapy Project, two massively influential organizations in the secular space 597 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.039 have have been able to help so many people. I 598 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:57.319 think you said, like, what, thirty thousand clients. 599 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.680 Well, thirty eight thousand clients in the Secret Therapy Project house. Yeah, 600 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.640 one thoy ninety seven therapists in the secretar Therapy Project 601 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.599 in eleven different countries, and my god, yeah, it's gotten huge. 602 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.880 It's thirteen years old. 603 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:09.119 Now. 604 00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:13.200 That is amazing. Man, that is really really freaking cool. 605 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.160 And everybody that has been watching this show for a 606 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.039 while knows how much we love both of those places 607 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:22.720 and how often we shout them out. But for some reason, Daryl, 608 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.920 you you apparently didn't have enough to do. It must 609 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.119 be the case you were just sitting on your hands 610 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:34.240 board one day and you got this really cool idea 611 00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:38.279 that the first class, the first cohort, has actually just 612 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:40.519 finished and I was actually lucky enough to be a 613 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.359 part of it. Would you mind just telling everybody a 614 00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:45.920 little bit about the Secure Leadership Institute? 615 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.680 Sure? Sure, So I've been watching. My career was in leadership, 616 00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.079 so I was training the leaders for almost forty years 617 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:55.640 in my career. But I get into the secular world 618 00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.119 in the late two thousands and I see, you know, 619 00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:03.079 poor leadership everywhere. And I'm not saying bad people. It's 620 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:05.240 not bad people. It's just people who don't know how 621 00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:07.599 to lead, and so it causes lots of problems, lots 622 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:09.920 of conflicts, that sort of stuff. So I got the 623 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:14.880 idea a decade ago to bring my skills in leadership 624 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.480 development into the secular world. But it's just now coming 625 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:20.839 to fruition because I've had too much to do with 626 00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:24.200 recover from religit and secular Therapy project. But if you 627 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:30.440 google google church leadership, you will find hundreds of training 628 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:35.519 courses to train churches and church leaders. If you find 629 00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:39.920 Google secular leadership, you will find nothing. And that inspired 630 00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.000 me to start this Institute for Secular Leadership. I've been 631 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.839 working on this for two years and we just launched 632 00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:49.960 it in February. And you were fortunate enough to be 633 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.839 in the very first class. You are among those first 634 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:56.519 of the acolytes, right, that's right. 635 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:57.960 We threw our hats in everything. 636 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.039 Yeah, you really did. It was a It was a 637 00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:04.440 good We had a great time but it's a it's 638 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.279 a it's a course designed to teach people how to 639 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:10.720 lead in the secular world, because you can't. You don't 640 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.079 lead seculars like you lead people in church. Yeah, and 641 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:17.799 I see too many leaders using church techniques, you know, 642 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.440 guilt and shame and you know, doing not being able 643 00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:24.920 to deal with conflict appropriately. There's there's a lot of 644 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:27.880 things that secular leaders need to learn how to do 645 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.400 that church leaders don't do, or they do it very poorly. 646 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.039 Yeah, let me let me let me kind of pick 647 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.000 your brain on that a little bit. You know, why 648 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.759 is this so important? I mean I feel like I 649 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.319 don't know, man. I feel like we've got American atheists. 650 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.240 I mean they're a big organization and they're goods. You know, 651 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.880 We've got you know, Sunday's assemblies, you know, going around. Still, 652 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:53.759 we've got this recovering from religion, I mean, humanists associate. 653 00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:56.000 I don't know, man, I feel like we've got why 654 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.160 why do we need to train secular leaders? 655 00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:03.839 Well, I look at leadership kind of like driving a car. 656 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.599 When you first learn how to drive a car, you 657 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.839 are really carefully driving. You don't know where to put 658 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.720 your foot on the brake or on the accelerator. You're 659 00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:17.920 concentrating totally and without any training, and you get into 660 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.039 the car, that's the way you're going to drive the car. 661 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.400 You're probably gonna wreck the car too, if you're not careful. Well, 662 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.319 that's kind of the way we are with leaders right now. 663 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.599 We have not trained a single leader. Nobody gets trained. 664 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.319 Churches are training people all the time. The Baptists have 665 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:33.920 got a huge training program, the Mormon's got a huge 666 00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.720 training program. Well, if they think it's important to train 667 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:40.359 people in churches, it's got to be just as important 668 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.559 to train people to be secular leaders. And as a 669 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:47.359 result of not having training, you see groups having conflict, 670 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.480 not knowing how to deal with conflicts, splitting over conflict, 671 00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:53.960 groups starting and two years later dying. You see founder 672 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.160 leaders who can't delegate, who won't train other people to 673 00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:59.640 do what they want, who hold on to power without 674 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.960 with our sharing power. There's just a lot of mistakes 675 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.480 I'm seeing being made by good people that are very 676 00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:10.200 smart people, but they haven't been trained. You wouldn't put 677 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:12.000 your twelve year old kid in a car and say, 678 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.160 I hope you make it alive. You'll give me some groceries. 679 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.160 And that's kind of what we're doing with whoever steps 680 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.960 up to lead the local humanist group, the local atheist groups, 681 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.119 that's who gets it. But what qualifications do they have, 682 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:27.000 what training do they have, and we are ready to 683 00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:29.400 do that. We started this course. We're now in our 684 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:34.079 third cohort, as you know, and almost it's halfway sold out. 685 00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:38.279 Our second intermediate course is sold out. Now we can't 686 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.119 accept any more people. So we're glad to see people 687 00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:43.559 are starting to get the word and sign up for it. 688 00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:45.559 That's awesome, that's awesome. 689 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.559 And yeah, you guys can definitely find that out there 690 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:51.000 all over some places. 691 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:52.680 I saw it on Facebook the other day. 692 00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:56.119 Very very easy to get a part of it and 693 00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:01.680 to join in. There are some really really important things 694 00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:04.960 that that you know, I have learned already, some things 695 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:10.079 that I saw myself doing incorrectly. And again it's it's 696 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:13.239 not it's it's not from anything other than just a 697 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.599 lack of knowledge on it. We, like you said, we 698 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:20.000 don't have these pipelines. We we have not had these 699 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:25.320 kind of these courses or these pathways for our people 700 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.159 at all, you know, And if you're lucky enough to 701 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.719 be in an area that has a group already. More 702 00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.519 often than not, it's kind of like, hey, who's in 703 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:37.159 charge here? 704 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:38.159 And when you. 705 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:40.480 Find out that person, they tend to be like, yeah, 706 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.119 nobody else wanted to do it, you know. 707 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:46.840 So and then and we wonder why our our causes stagnate. 708 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:50.440 We wonder why, we wonder why it's so difficult for 709 00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:55.079 us to get anything, you know, to happen in this space. 710 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.000 But I I am thrilled by this man. I think 711 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:03.039 this is really awesome them. And if you could, if 712 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.440 you could give somebody out there, you know, just just 713 00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:11.199 one one little nugget of something, they might get some 714 00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:14.000 some little bit of a little bit of the secret sauce, 715 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.519 behind the scenes thing to wet their appetite so that 716 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:17.559 they'll they'll. 717 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.000 Sign up for this. 718 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.360 What what would you say to them? What's something super 719 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:21.920 important for secular leaders? 720 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.119 Well, I think it's not just secular leaders, but secular 721 00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.559 board members, because there's far more people on secular boards 722 00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.880 than there are leaders, so to speak. So I think 723 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.760 the most we have a simple thing we do in 724 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.400 one of the courses is five key things board members 725 00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:40.119 should know and do, and that would be And I 726 00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:42.159 don't have time to go through them right now, of course. 727 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:47.480 But the number one thing is you are responsible morally 728 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.400 and fiscally and financially for the way the organization operates, 729 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.360 and so you should be using best practices. So the 730 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:58.679 bottom line is, in our leadership training, we're teaching best practices, 731 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:03.599 and group that follow best practices tend to grow because 732 00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.840 the people that belong to it see how you function 733 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.639 and appreciate the way you're using donor money or the 734 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:17.159 time of the volunteers. So it's an important component to 735 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:22.599 develop the trust between board members, and trust between leaders 736 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:26.480 and board members is absolutely critical if you want to grow. 737 00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.000 And what I see is so many groups been around 738 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.360 for ten or twenty years and they haven't grown at all. 739 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.159 They've still got thirty forty people on the register and 740 00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:36.840 only ten people show up to the meetings. Well, I 741 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:38.800 think you could change that if you learn how to lead. 742 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:41.960 And it's not because you don't it's not because you're 743 00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:44.599 not good people, not because you're not intelligent, because you 744 00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:49.400 haven't been trained in best practices. Yeah, answer the question 745 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:50.079 a little bit. 746 00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:50.719 I think so. 747 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.639 I think you've had a great job answering that question, 748 00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:58.239 and there are tons of awesome ways that you can 749 00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:01.679 help out, folks. It is of one C three, so 750 00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:05.159 all donations are tax deductible, just like when you give 751 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.840 money here to the wonderful folks at the Atheist Community 752 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:13.000 of Boston, which I see. We have already a dollar 753 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.039 ninety nine super chat coming in from Jonathan France. I 754 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.000 wonder if we can get that up on here real quick. 755 00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:23.360 It says cubes upon you, cubes upon your house and 756 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:27.159 your cow, and yes, cubes upon every single one of 757 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:29.440 you out there as well. That's a little that's a 758 00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:31.599 little a bit we have going here and you instead 759 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:36.199 of pieces. But anyway, I have the perfect call I 760 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.800 think to talk a little bit more about this. We 761 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:45.039 have an atheist Sean he him pronouns out in Kansas, 762 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:50.239 wants to talk to us today about something about humanism 763 00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:51.440 or I'm not sure here. 764 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:52.920 Well we'll get him to explain. 765 00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:56.679 But hey, Sean, you are on the Atheist experience with 766 00:37:56.840 --> 00:37:58.599 Secularity and doctor Daryl Ray. 767 00:37:58.679 --> 00:37:59.400 What is up? 768 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.559 Wow, nice to be with you guys. Thanks so much. 769 00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:05.719 Hey, how are you good to have you Sean? 770 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:09.679 It's so good to see you both. And I was 771 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:13.400 enjoying that you met previous caller and listening to the 772 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.639 fulfillmentive prophecy, and I'm like, man, that brings, you know, 773 00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:19.039 back to when I was a theist before I became 774 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.440 an atheist. But yeah, so now I am a humanist 775 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:29.280 and I'm also a graduate with secular rarity in doctor 776 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:33.440 Ray's course in the Institute for Secular Leadership. And I've 777 00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:35.920 really learned a lot thanks to everybody there. 778 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:38.280 Nice awesome man. 779 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:41.280 Yeah, what was what was one of the things that 780 00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:43.480 you got out of it that you you really valued? 781 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:44.920 Oh? 782 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:46.360 Wow, just one thing? 783 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.960 Really, there was so much, you know, I have to 784 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.000 the fact that being with ten other individuals who are 785 00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:59.760 learning and who bring their own uh you know, experience 786 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:04.679 with them, but listening to the leaders of the course 787 00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.880 and helping to you know, reframe some things to help 788 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:12.679 us consider things we hadn't considered. And me never having 789 00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.880 been a leader or trained as a leader, this was 790 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.519 critical for me. I felt like I had to had 791 00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:21.519 to get into this course. And I'll tell you, I've 792 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.000 learned so much. I'm glad to see some things I've 793 00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:26.840 been doing well, but I've only learned to do how 794 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:30.760 to do them better. And you know, I love that. 795 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:36.280 So I don't know, like how to be an idea generator. 796 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:41.239 That's really cool. I learned a lot from that that thread. 797 00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:47.679 Horizontal accountability has nothing to do with being in bed. So, 798 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:54.800 you know, one of the more recent ones we heard 799 00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:57.519 before graduating was whose chicken is this? 800 00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:59.159 Or yeah? Or yeah? 801 00:39:59.239 --> 00:39:59.880 Or who's monkey? 802 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.119 Rather who's monkey? 803 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:01.440 Right? 804 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:02.000 Right? 805 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:02.400 Right? 806 00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:02.719 Yeah? 807 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:03.280 Yeah right. 808 00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:04.480 I don't know why I said chicken. 809 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.039 Maybe was that a Freudian slip? 810 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:07.440 I don't know. 811 00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:09.400 You're making ship up? 812 00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:13.000 Yeah, yeah, right now? Yeah now, I'm just making ship up. 813 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:13.599 Yeah, that's right. 814 00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:20.000 But yeah, you know, getting buy in for our vision. 815 00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.679 And that's one thing that I realized I had not 816 00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:27.760 really been as focused on as I should be, because 817 00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:32.039 the whole reason I, you know, started my organization was 818 00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.320 to have well the vision that are that I had 819 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.039 and get it out there and start working on that. 820 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.719 So anyway, uh, you know, and and this this course 821 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:47.719 is really helping me to zone in on that our mission, 822 00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:51.719 making sure that our leaders are also invested in that 823 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.360 idea and wanting to forward. So yeah, very exciting to 824 00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:59.400 be able to promote this course for people who are 825 00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.639 in the secular community who want to lead. I highly 826 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:03.559 recommend this course. 827 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:09.000 Yeah, definitely I think it was. It was a lot 828 00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:11.880 of fun. We we got to we got to bounce 829 00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:15.000 ideas off of each other a bunch. And you know, 830 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:18.239 one of the things I think is so cool is 831 00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:21.079 you know, I didn't even know. Yeah I probably could 832 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.400 have guessed, right, but I didn't even know there was 833 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:28.119 a humanist group out in Topeka, Kansas, you know, And 834 00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:33.000 just just taking this course has allowed me to get 835 00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:37.280 that connection at least, you know, And like, I think 836 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.320 that is one thing again that we've been missing for 837 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:45.039 so long in this space, is that cross pollination and 838 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.599 that interconnectedness of the communities. We see this on the 839 00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.480 right with the Christian Nationalists, we we we see this 840 00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:56.000 in so many of these other groups, and unfortunately we 841 00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.280 we just don't have a counter example yet, you know. 842 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.199 So I'm thrilled that we have this. 843 00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:07.119 Oh yeah, well one of the that's one of the 844 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.039 key things that we're all trying to do is to 845 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:11.960 create a network of leaders so that for that very 846 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:14.559 very thing you're talking about, and. 847 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:16.519 Yeah, you know our goal that. 848 00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:20.280 I'm sorry I should not have interrupted. 849 00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:25.800 My apologies, No, go ahead, Sean, Oh, I was just. 850 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.920 Gonna say speaking to that about you know, having a network. 851 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:33.800 I recently had a challenge that came up about childcare 852 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:39.760 and one of our director board of directors had mentioned 853 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:44.199 a series of concerns about you know that, especially how 854 00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.079 churches have been known to do it, you know, with 855 00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:50.400 with free childcare, and it's always the women taking care 856 00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:53.480 of the children, and so kind of reinforces the patriarchy 857 00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:57.400 in that sense, you know, and unpaid labor among other 858 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:02.159 issues gender, you know, gendo, stereo typing, and that kind 859 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.239 of reinforcement. So I presented the concern to the group, 860 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:11.199 the cohort and got some really fabulous responses, and I'm like, 861 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:14.159 this is so wonderful that we actually have a network 862 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:17.199 and it's only going to grow, and so we'll be 863 00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.360 able to get some excellent feedback from folks who are 864 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:23.880 experiencing something similar, might be able to you know, lend 865 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.559 some ideas to help the challenges that we're faced with. 866 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:30.599 And you know, oh yeah, by the way, that was 867 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:35.119 in a leadership challenges thread that was specifically set up 868 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:37.559 for that. And so I'm like, yeah, right, oh. 869 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.400 This is really cool, good nice. Yeah, what were what 870 00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:44.239 were you what were you thinking, Darryl? 871 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:46.039 You had well, I was going to say our goal 872 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:50.079 is to train one thousand leaders over the next ten years. Wow, 873 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.719 one thousand leaders the next ten year. And think if 874 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.199 we had a thousand leaders all gone through the same training, 875 00:43:55.239 --> 00:44:00.480 with the same approach and methodology and language, they can 876 00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:03.119 start talking to each other and we can grow in 877 00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:07.639 new ways we've never done before. We can horizontally grow 878 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:11.480 and connecting and developing each other. And that's that's what 879 00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:15.159 Sean's talking about. Yeah, and they can go to Secular 880 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:18.800 Leadership dot Org is the website you can go to 881 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.119 to see more about the course. 882 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:23.519 Make it easy for him. That's the way to do it. Yeah, yeah, 883 00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:25.639 I love it. Well, Sean, do you do you have 884 00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:28.159 any do you have any closing thoughts for us or 885 00:44:28.519 --> 00:44:30.079 reflections on the on the course. 886 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:33.480 You know, I just want to say that I think 887 00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:38.360 the the breadth of what we learned just in the 888 00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:43.440 introductory course alone before even going into the intermediate course 889 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:50.960 was I mean, eye opening and directly helpful every every 890 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.960 after every class, you know, we had some homework to 891 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:58.800 do and application of that in our own group, and 892 00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.400 we can also you know, you know, bounce some feedback. 893 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:05.159 So knowing that you know, I. 894 00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:07.199 Don't have to do this alone, anymore and. 895 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:10.079 Think on my own too, you know, hit or miss, 896 00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:13.119 and having you know, people who've gone before, you know, 897 00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:16.119 like actual sen phase. That's what Sunsey means, is like 898 00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.760 the one who's gone before, right, So you know, it's 899 00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:23.119 great to be able to pick, you know, from from people. 900 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.320 Who who've done this and are are. 901 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:30.000 You know, will have understood the best practices to take 902 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:33.519 those and and make this happen. I'm just so excited 903 00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:37.000 to know that we're going to have secular leaders that 904 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.960 are trained and and like Daryl said, you know, speaking 905 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.079 the language, you know, and being able to move that 906 00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:46.440 forward and work together and network and grow together. So 907 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.039 I think it's amazing and thank you for the opportunity 908 00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:51.079 for me to be able to come on here today 909 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.079 to share that with you all. 910 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:53.920 Yeah, thanks so much, Sean. 911 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:55.519 We really apt sure calling Sean. 912 00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:58.119 Yeah, man, we are absolutely appreciate it. 913 00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.280 I'm gonna I'm gonna drop you like a hot tato 914 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.880 real quick, because there's no uh, there's no real like 915 00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:05.239 you know, easy or dignified way to do it. 916 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:05.440 Man. 917 00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:08.519 But thank you so much for calling us today. And 918 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.360 I can't wait until we're in another class together again. 919 00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:11.639 Man. 920 00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:14.480 So likewise, coming right up soon. All right, see. 921 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:19.960 Y'all heave rather ah man, I I love it. It 922 00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:25.960 is very important that we start thinking beyond the systems 923 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:29.519 and the methods that we've used in the past. 924 00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:30.039 You know. 925 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:34.599 I think one of the biggest reasons why we haven't 926 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:39.039 seen I mean, when I think about American atheists and 927 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.119 let's say the American humanists, they've been around for almost 928 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.880 one hundred years, apiece. I mean, they've been around for 929 00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:51.199 really really long time. And I ask myself, why haven't 930 00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.679 we had more progress? Why haven't we had even more 931 00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:57.199 progress than what we have had? 932 00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:57.559 You know? 933 00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:00.519 Why why do we see backslides and all of this stuff? 934 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:03.440 And I think one of the biggest reasons is we 935 00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:09.079 just don't have those things training the next generation of leaders. 936 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:09.960 We just don't have. 937 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.599 Those things that build up the community in the same 938 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:15.119 way that the religious do. 939 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:15.360 You know. 940 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:19.360 I was recently watching the Shiny Happy People documentary, you know, 941 00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:20.840 and like, I mean. 942 00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:24.880 When you see the the conferences that they put on 943 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.639 and you see what they're doing, and it's all about 944 00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:30.079 this leadership building, how do you how do you take 945 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:31.920 this back into your town and stuff? I mean, this 946 00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:35.400 is what they've been doing for decades. 947 00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.239 At this point, oh at least. 948 00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:40.440 Yeah, yeah, and it just we we have to we 949 00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:41.280 have to start. 950 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:41.599 You know. 951 00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:43.800 The best time to start was ten years ago. The 952 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:47.440 next best time is right now, you know. So well, uh, 953 00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:48.920 we'll get onto that. 954 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:55.199 But before we do that, there is actually something very 955 00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:00.679 cool that my buddy and fellow host here, Jamie the Blindlimey, 956 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:02.360 has to say, Jamie. 957 00:48:02.119 --> 00:48:03.400 What is that thing about? 958 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:03.519 This? 959 00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:05.880 Coming up in May? 960 00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:11.039 Jamie the Blind lime here, and I've got some interesting 961 00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:14.360 news for you. On Saturday, May sixteenth, at six pm, 962 00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.320 we'll be hosting our twenty four hour We Are Here 963 00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:21.800 live stream and fundraiser to highlight secular voices around the world. 964 00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:25.880 We've invited dozens of your favorite content creators like genetically 965 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.920 Modified Skeptic, the Antibot, Justin d Z, and more to 966 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:32.400 let the world know that we are here and we're 967 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:34.840 not going anywhere. If you're here in Austin, come join 968 00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:38.000 us at Free Thought Library at fifteen oh seven West 969 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:41.159 Cain Iglaine. Well, we'll be kicking things off in style, 970 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:44.599 and if you're online, do join us on the Atheist 971 00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:47.119 Experience channel to check out the stream and join in 972 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.480 the fun. So join us from wherever you are in 973 00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:52.599 the world, and together we can dedicate ourselves to secular 974 00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:54.840 humanist values wherever we are. 975 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:00.920 That is awesome. 976 00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:04.239 Yes, thank you so much Jamie for the info on 977 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.599 the upcoming twenty four hour live stream and fundraiser for 978 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:13.000 the ACA May sixteenth, starting at six pm Central time. 979 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.480 You guys don't want to miss it. It was super 980 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.920 duper fun last year. I got to participate. I was 981 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.519 very excited. They gave me one of the like primo 982 00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:24.480 Primo slots, the like one thirty to like like two 983 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.559 fifteen in the in the morning time Central It was. 984 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:32.159 It was awesome. I was so thrilled to do it. 985 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:35.039 I got to hang out with a couple of different people. 986 00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:37.880 I got to hang out with Holy kool Aid and 987 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:38.880 Godless Engineer. 988 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.280 We had we had a good time. 989 00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:44.199 So definitely, folks, make sure that you put that on 990 00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.960 your calendars and you come hang out with us. We 991 00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:51.079 have some other we have some other really good calls here, Darryl. 992 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:55.960 I think we should go out to Colorado and talk 993 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:59.719 with RJ, a theist him pronouns RJ wants to talk 994 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:02.239 about the four winds in the Bible, So I don't 995 00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:04.079 I don't know how much you know about this, Daryl, 996 00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:04.800 but we. 997 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:05.559 Are going to leave it. 998 00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:07.039 Go for it. 999 00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:09.079 Yeah, let's do it. Let's give it a shot. Well, hey, 1000 00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:11.960 r J, you are on the atheist experience. 1001 00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:12.880 What is up? 1002 00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:15.079 Yeah? Hey? 1003 00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:17.039 So yeah? 1004 00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:21.360 Well, happy Easter. I know you guys probably don't celebrate it, but. 1005 00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:24.079 Do you happy? 1006 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:25.840 Yeah? 1007 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:29.440 But so I found it kind of interesting. I don't 1008 00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:32.760 think this will really change your guys's opinion or anything, 1009 00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.880 but I was looking up the four winds, and I 1010 00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:40.599 know a lot of atheists think that that means that 1011 00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:46.480 Christians and Jews thought the Earth was flat. But if 1012 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.400 you do some research on it, there is six major 1013 00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:56.440 wind systems that we have. I'm guessing you're probably aware 1014 00:50:56.440 --> 00:51:00.559 of them. The polar East release, the trade wind and 1015 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.239 then the westerlies. But if you look at it closer, 1016 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:08.960 the winds that are blowing on land where humans inhabit, 1017 00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:13.199 it's it's just the four winds. So it's the easterly 1018 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:17.880 or I'm sorry, the westerlies and the trade winds, and 1019 00:51:18.679 --> 00:51:22.480 like even when you go to Norway or Greenland, they 1020 00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:27.039 usually still follows the pattern of the westerlies above the 1021 00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:30.000 thirty degree north line. 1022 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:36.480 So is is this something that convinced you r J. 1023 00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:43.480 No, it was part of the convintion, not entirely, but 1024 00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:48.880 it definitely is an explanation sure to what that means? 1025 00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:52.239 And like sure, and and you know, I understand the 1026 00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.280 concept of accumulative case. You know, the reason that I 1027 00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:58.320 accept that my buddy, you know, got a rabbits as 1028 00:51:58.360 --> 00:51:58.880 a as a. 1029 00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.159 Birthday present, you know, and now as a pet rabbit. 1030 00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:04.239 That he wasn't particularly thrilled about, but he still takes 1031 00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:06.599 care of it very well and he loves it. But 1032 00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:08.239 the reason I believe that is because of all of 1033 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.320 these other different pieces of evidence. You know, I know 1034 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:12.159 that bunnies exist. You know, I know he had a 1035 00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:15.599 birthday recently. You know, I've actually seen the fucking rabbit. 1036 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:20.400 There's a lot of stuff, right, But like if we 1037 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:23.079 were to somehow figure out a way, I'm not saying 1038 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:26.119 that we can, but like if the three of us 1039 00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:31.079 here right now could like disprove that either that hey, 1040 00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:34.639 actually no, there's like twelve wins on the earth, like 1041 00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:38.360 the physical geography and all that, or we could somehow 1042 00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:41.440 show that the individual who wrote that portion of the 1043 00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:46.000 Bible was actually talking about something totally different. Would it 1044 00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:48.360 really move the needle at all in terms of your 1045 00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.840 belief in God. 1046 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:57.360 On this particular subject. No, yeah, yeah, but I mean, 1047 00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:02.000 I mean, those are the winds. I mean, obviously there's 1048 00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:06.760 gonna be other like wind effects that aren't gonna follow 1049 00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:07.920 over exactly. 1050 00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:11.679 But r J, if if we spend ten minutes talking 1051 00:53:11.719 --> 00:53:15.840 about these winds right at the end of it, no 1052 00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.559 matter how much progress you and I make, you're gonna 1053 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:22.320 still believe. And and so I'd just rather go to 1054 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:25.239 something that's more convincing to you. If if you came 1055 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.000 across that and we're even like, eh, that's. 1056 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:29.280 Not that big of a deal. But it's kind of 1057 00:53:29.320 --> 00:53:31.639 a little bit of extra sprinkles on my ice cream, 1058 00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:32.119 you know that. 1059 00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:34.119 That's okay, I get that, But I want to I 1060 00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:35.840 want to go right to the right to the heart 1061 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:40.360 of it. Man, what's the what's the real reason that 1062 00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:43.880 that you believe? You know, God's real or Jesus rose 1063 00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.400 from the dead today a long time ago, or something 1064 00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:46.880 like that. 1065 00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:53.119 I would say I have a lot of multiple reasons, 1066 00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:54.679 not just one in particular. 1067 00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:57.840 For sure, give me a really really good one. Give 1068 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.159 me give me the one that you really think is 1069 00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:01.840 super Sorry. 1070 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:02.239 Solid. 1071 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:06.960 As far as like Christianity goes or the proof that 1072 00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:08.679 there is a God. 1073 00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:11.239 Your choice. 1074 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:16.079 I've talked to I've talked to uh Darryl Ray before 1075 00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:18.639 on this same show. I don't he probably doesn't rememory. 1076 00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:25.760 But anyways, my biggest one was demographics, human demographics. That 1077 00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:31.920 was the biggest one. Well, because if evolution wasn't real, 1078 00:54:33.320 --> 00:54:36.199 or if evolution was real, we would have trillions and 1079 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:39.360 trillions of people living on the planet by now. There's 1080 00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:43.880 if you will go back five hundred thousand years, I mean, 1081 00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:48.079 we would have reproduced way more times than we already have. 1082 00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:55.840 I realized, what about Yeah, there, correct, that's the excuse. 1083 00:54:55.960 --> 00:55:01.639 But diseases don't wipe out populations were thousands and thousands 1084 00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:06.639 of years, and neither does natural disasters, especially if you're 1085 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:09.360 spread out. 1086 00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:13.000 But if over look, because I'm not I don't want 1087 00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.320 to go like too far down the evolution route. I 1088 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.760 just want to be charitable on both sides here, Like 1089 00:55:18.199 --> 00:55:20.199 if we both agree, just for the sake of the 1090 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:24.679 argument that like climate and the Earth changes over like 1091 00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:27.599 thousands of years of time, you don't think it's possible 1092 00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:32.360 that say, like the most northern portion of Africa in 1093 00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:35.880 a thousand to two thousand years could go from a lush, 1094 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.079 green environment that could support a lot of life to 1095 00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:43.079 like a dry, arid, freezing cold desert that couldn't support anything. 1096 00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:45.800 You don't think that's possible, like at all. 1097 00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:50.320 I do think it's possible. But if humans are spread 1098 00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:55.280 out across various locations, I don't think that would have 1099 00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:59.760 an effect on it. Just like in large popular portions 1100 00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:03.760 of animal populations get wiped out, there's still a bunch 1101 00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:04.639 of them that survives. 1102 00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:09.199 Yeah, but animals go extinct, right, animals and plants go extinct. 1103 00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:14.039 That's true, But humans are a lot smarter than the 1104 00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:17.079 animal where a lot we can adapt and survive a 1105 00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:18.760 lot better than most animals can. 1106 00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:22.920 Give me, give me, give me a second here, Arji, 1107 00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:24.559 I've been kind of dominating. I want to get I 1108 00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:26.679 want to get doctor Ray and on this as well, 1109 00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:27.199 what do you what. 1110 00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:29.519 Do you think on this? Daryl? Is there something to it? 1111 00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:35.840 I'm more curious about what R. Jay's underlying emotional motivation 1112 00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:41.360 is for solving this problem. What what motivates you to 1113 00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:43.079 think in the about this problem? 1114 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:45.559 Uh? 1115 00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:49.800 What what problem are you talking about? How humans would 1116 00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:53.039 I'm not sure what you're asking, sorry. 1117 00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:55.840 Well, what what motivates you to call in? What? What's 1118 00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:00.000 the concern the underlying concern that makes you concerned about this. 1119 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:04.719 About you guys being atheists? 1120 00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:05.039 Is that? 1121 00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:05.880 Like? 1122 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:10.199 Why am I you called us to talk about four 1123 00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:14.000 winds and things like that? What is the underlying concern 1124 00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:16.079 that you've got that the wind's going to build the 1125 00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:20.280 wrong direction? You know, I'm being facetious there, but what 1126 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:21.920 what caused you to adding? 1127 00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:26.239 I would say that's just evidence, I guess in a 1128 00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:29.199 way like he was saying earlier, that is sprinkles on 1129 00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:33.480 top of the evidence that has already been presented that 1130 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:37.079 the Bible is true and that there's a lot of 1131 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:41.239 stuff in there that people wouldn't know that they did 1132 00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:45.800 know somehow, Like the four winds would be something that 1133 00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:49.679 would be really difficult, especially when you consider that the 1134 00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.400 most so the wind isn't that. 1135 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:54.400 Well, okay, let me ask this question. You called in 1136 00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:56.239 to talk about this one. Why didn't you call it 1137 00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:59.320 talk about something in the Baba Guida or in the Quran? 1138 00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:04.239 Is it is there a reason why that that those 1139 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:13.519 holy books that obviously they people think God wrote. 1140 00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:13.960 Yeah, but they have errors in them, like obvious errors 1141 00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:18.079 and contradictions that I don't think makes sense. 1142 00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:22.480 Okay, So you studied the Koran and you know how 1143 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:24.119 many errors it has. 1144 00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:27.760 I haven't really, I haven't read the entire theme, but 1145 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:32.039 I know there's one hundred and fourteen surahs, like I 1146 00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:38.000 know the basic thing. Okay, Yeah, and it's got contradictions 1147 00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:41.840 in it that are major, like I was. Okay, the 1148 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:44.960 arguments again there against the Kuran are greater than the 1149 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:46.559 arguments against the Bible. 1150 00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:52.320 Greater than okay, but so the Bible has contradictions too, correct. 1151 00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:57.960 Well, the arguments I don't personally believe that I've seen 1152 00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:01.920 the arguments the re revs. I guess the people who 1153 00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:05.880 refute the arguments, I think their arguments are stronger than 1154 00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:10.159 the arguments are made against it. When I hear people 1155 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:12.840 trying to defend the Koran against. 1156 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:16.079 So if I was sitting here in you you were 1157 00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:19.760 a Christian and we had a Muslim of equal knowledge 1158 00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:23.920 to you, and you guys started debating, how would you 1159 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:25.159 go out winning that debate? 1160 00:59:26.239 --> 00:59:31.400 Well, okay, well, the mo the Quran has failed prophecies. 1161 00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:39.119 So the biggest argument against Islam, in my opinion versus 1162 00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:46.000 Christianity is Christianity. Christianity had prophecies that were fulfilled versus 1163 00:59:46.039 --> 00:59:46.519 the Koran. 1164 00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:49.880 Oh wait, wait, hold on. I've got a lot of 1165 00:59:49.960 --> 00:59:52.880 Muzslim friends, the next Muslim friends, and they're pretty darn 1166 00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:56.760 sure all the prophecies in the Koran came true. I'm 1167 00:59:56.800 --> 00:59:59.599 positive that they will. They will go, they will die 1168 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:03.119 on that on that hill, so to speak. So I'm 1169 01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:05.320 just trying to figure out which prophecy should I put 1170 01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:07.440 the most weight on, yours or theirs? 1171 01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:13.639 I would say, I would say on Christianity's prophecies, had. 1172 01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:15.719 You been born in Saudi Arabia, would you be saying 1173 01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:20.039 the same thing? If what if you had been born 1174 01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.880 in Saudi Arabia raised in Islam, would you be saying 1175 01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.239 the same thing you are right now? 1176 01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:27.400 I think I would yes. Just like if I had 1177 01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:31.599 a math problem and I lived in Saudi Arabia, and 1178 01:00:31.639 --> 01:00:33.519 I looked at a math problem and I was able 1179 01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:37.039 to solve it, but everyone in Saudi Arabia said that 1180 01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:40.639 that my solution was wrong, but the people in the 1181 01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:43.840 US said the solution was right. I would say, well, 1182 01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:46.639 i'm i'm I agree with the people in the US. 1183 01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:49.119 Their solution is correct. The people in Saudi. 1184 01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:53.159 Arabiakay, this isn't This isn't math problems. The Musslim math works. 1185 01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:56.079 In fact, we use Arabic numerals in case you hadn't 1186 01:00:56.199 --> 01:01:00.719 learned math. It's Arabic numerals, right. So the Arabs gave 1187 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.280 us from India. It came from ultimately, it started in India, 1188 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.559 but we call them Arabic numerals because they came to 1189 01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:10.400 us through the Arab world. But that's not the issue. 1190 01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:13.559 The issue is, how do I tell you were raised 1191 01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:16.920 in Saudi Arabia the only religion you ever heard of 1192 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:20.280 or knew was Islam. Would you still be making the 1193 01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:22.480 same claims that you are right now? 1194 01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:26.280 If I had access to the Bible and I lived 1195 01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:29.239 in Saudi Arabia, and I looked at both the Bible 1196 01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:32.920 and the Koran, and I compared them to the Old 1197 01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:37.599 Testament prophecies, and the Koran doesn't really the Koran says 1198 01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:41.159 the Old Testament, doesn't. I mean, they kind of contradict 1199 01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:45.079 and say it's not the correct Old Testament. But if 1200 01:01:45.079 --> 01:01:46.800 I was looking at both of them side by side, 1201 01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:49.360 and I had access to the Bible, I would think you, 1202 01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:50.800 I would believe the Bible. 1203 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:54.000 Okay, Now let's go back to Utah. If you had 1204 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.519 been raised in Utah as a Mormon and book a 1205 01:01:56.559 --> 01:02:01.880 Mormon was your holy book, which prophecy Joseph Smith's prophecies 1206 01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:06.239 or you know, or your local Baptist churches minister's prophecies. 1207 01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:07.599 Who should I believe? 1208 01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:13.840 I would I'm not a Baptist, but well, I believe 1209 01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:17.000 I'm a Protestant, I guess, but I believe in I 1210 01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:20.599 don't really want to label myself as a Baptist, but 1211 01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:23.920 I would say I guess in a way I am 1212 01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:27.559 kind of related Baptists because I concern myself evangelical and 1213 01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:30.559 they kind of rose out of the Baptist movement. I 1214 01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:34.000 guess in a way I kind of am. But yeah, 1215 01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:38.440 I would still say that the Baptist is more correct 1216 01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:44.360 than the the Mormon movement is based on the logical 1217 01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:47.000 prophecies I'm looking at. 1218 01:02:47.239 --> 01:02:49.639 I mean, well, are You've given us no logic? But 1219 01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:55.719 that's okay. I can't understand how Mormonism doesn't trump Trump whatever. 1220 01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:56.239 You can have. 1221 01:02:56.360 --> 01:03:00.480 The fulfilled prophecies that are claimed by the early followers 1222 01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:04.199 of Joseph Smith sound way more miraculous to me than 1223 01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:06.599 than a lot of the a lot of the Bible 1224 01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:09.599 and stuff. But there you brought up something a second ago, RJ. 1225 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:12.280 I want to I want to just get some clarification 1226 01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:15.400 on you said, when if I were to compare the 1227 01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:19.760 New Testament to to you know, the Old Testament, if 1228 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.039 I were to compare the Koran to the Old Testament, 1229 01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:26.199 why are you doing that? Why are you bringing these 1230 01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:29.360 books to compare them to supposed prophecies written in the 1231 01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:30.079 Old Testament. 1232 01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:33.639 What is it about the Old Testament to use as a. 1233 01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:40.039 Guide there, Yeah, because that's the Old Testament prove the 1234 01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:43.639 New Testament. The New Testament proves that the Old Testament possably. 1235 01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:45.480 I understand that circle. 1236 01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:48.679 But what I'm asking about, RJ, is if you've got 1237 01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:51.920 books that are very very old, right, and you've got 1238 01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:53.760 like seven of them in front of you. You know, 1239 01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:57.559 doctor Ray mentioned the Bagavad Gita, Like, if you've got that, 1240 01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:00.840 and you've got the Old Testament as it's compiled today, 1241 01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.039 but wouldn't have been compiled in that fashion from two 1242 01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:05.639 thousand years ago? Like why would you pick out the 1243 01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:10.000 Old Testament as being the like foundation that we've got 1244 01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:12.280 to go find all the things that make it work. 1245 01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:14.519 Does that Does that make sense why I'm asking that? 1246 01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:20.639 Uh, yeah, I think I get what you're at trying 1247 01:04:20.679 --> 01:04:28.559 to get trying to say, yeah, I well, because because 1248 01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:31.920 of Israel was the one of the most powerful nations 1249 01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:34.039 and it's in the Middle East. 1250 01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:37.039 When and yeah, when was that? 1251 01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:39.119 Like what time period would. 1252 01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:40.960 You during the time of King Solomon? 1253 01:04:41.239 --> 01:04:45.000 And my understanding and I sure could be wrong on this, 1254 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:47.760 and both of us could go do some some research 1255 01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:51.320 with like a seriologist and stuff, but my understanding is 1256 01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:56.079 that the concept of a pre modern Israel, like an 1257 01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:59.880 ancient Israel, like two thousand plus odd years ago Israel 1258 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:03.320 absolutely in no way, shape or form existed in all 1259 01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:06.159 of the archaeological evidence points otherwise. 1260 01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:08.199 That is my understanding. 1261 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:15.320 RJ Okay, Yeah, but but I mean if that's the case, right, 1262 01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.639 then that would be a problem for then going back 1263 01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:20.760 to what you just said about using the Old Testament 1264 01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.400 as the basis, right, because unless there's another reason why 1265 01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:26.639 you would do that, unless there's another reason why you 1266 01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:27.239 would pick. 1267 01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:32.440 That collection, Well, it prophesies that there there's going to 1268 01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:38.440 be a continuation of the Old Testament. What does a 1269 01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:41.679 gold is the Old Israelite? 1270 01:05:41.840 --> 01:05:43.840 Hang on, hang on, just a second. I'm sorry, I 1271 01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:45.639 should have I should have done this earlier on RJ. 1272 01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:50.800 But can you can you give me your best definition 1273 01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:53.360 for what you mean when you say prophecy, Like if 1274 01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:56.800 I say, if I say I'm going to call my 1275 01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:00.599 mother at seven pm this two day day, is. 1276 01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:01.800 That a prophecy in your eyes? 1277 01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:03.280 No? 1278 01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:05.559 Awesome? 1279 01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:08.239 So like, so give me your best understanding when when 1280 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:10.800 you're talking about these prophecies in the Bible, what what 1281 01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:14.760 do you mean? Is it a dream somebody had? Is 1282 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:17.360 it somebody commanding something to do something? 1283 01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:18.519 What do you mean by that? 1284 01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:20.239 Yeah? 1285 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:27.119 Actually both of those are examples actually in the Bible of. 1286 01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:31.360 A dream and a command in your eyes counts as prophecy. 1287 01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:39.599 Certain specific ones. Yes, why okay, Well, the commands that 1288 01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:43.239 God gave to Israel. If you follow all my statues, 1289 01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:46.599 I'm gonna bless you and I'm gonna make you into 1290 01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:50.760 a great nation, and that happens. But if you turn 1291 01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:54.559 away for me, then your nation's going to fall. And 1292 01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:57.360 if you disobey all these statues. 1293 01:06:57.159 --> 01:06:57.800 Did that happen? 1294 01:06:59.239 --> 01:06:59.599 Yeah? 1295 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:02.360 Yeah, they stool eventually fell to the Babylonian. 1296 01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.880 So it kind of sounds like this prophecy fails one 1297 01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:09.440 way or the other, or is right one way or 1298 01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:13.320 the other, Because it sounds like it says either you 1299 01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:17.119 succeed in the prophecy is successful, or you fail and 1300 01:07:17.159 --> 01:07:20.360 the prophecy is successful. That doesn't really cut it for 1301 01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:22.360 me when it comes to prophecy. Let me give you 1302 01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:26.280 an example, RJ. My understanding of prophecy tends to be 1303 01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:27.079 something like. 1304 01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:32.639 In the year twenty twenty seven, doctor Darryl Ray will 1305 01:07:32.679 --> 01:07:33.840 wear a gray. 1306 01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:36.679 Sweater at an atheist conference, and on the back of 1307 01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:39.920 that sweater will be a sign that says kick me please. 1308 01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:43.559 That's like a prophecy, right. 1309 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:49.320 If you're commanding somebody to perform actions, that doesn't sound 1310 01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:51.400 like a prophecy to me, right. 1311 01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:54.360 It sounds like somebody's saying, do this. 1312 01:07:54.320 --> 01:07:59.119 Thing, especially if there's threat for punishment for not doing 1313 01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:01.719 it right. Right. 1314 01:08:01.760 --> 01:08:08.840 But it makes sense though, because they didn't obey God. 1315 01:08:08.920 --> 01:08:14.719 They started going and worshiping after idols and statues, and 1316 01:08:14.760 --> 01:08:20.239 that's why they were destroyed. And that there's even historical Uh, 1317 01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:24.159 there's histories proving that that happened, you. 1318 01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:26.199 Know, there's so what about the prophecy? 1319 01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:29.520 What about the prophecy in the Qoran that one day 1320 01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:34.039 near the end times that the children of Muhammad, or 1321 01:08:34.039 --> 01:08:36.880 as we like to call them these days, Muslims, they 1322 01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:41.479 will build great, great tall buildings that will reach the sky, 1323 01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:44.239 and that will be an indication of the end times. 1324 01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:46.439 What about that prophecy? Have you seen some of the 1325 01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:50.800 buildings that they've gotten Dubai right now? Yeah? 1326 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:52.640 Well, I mean I've seen them on the news. 1327 01:08:52.920 --> 01:08:54.199 Is that yeah? I mean mean too. 1328 01:08:54.199 --> 01:08:56.000 I haven't been to Dubai, but I mean, is that 1329 01:08:56.199 --> 01:08:58.680 is that not a fulfillment of that prophecy? Does that 1330 01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:02.880 not show that the Koran is true? 1331 01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:07.079 Like you said earlier, though, that's kind of the one 1332 01:09:07.119 --> 01:09:09.680 where if I call, If I say I'm gonna call 1333 01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:14.119 my mom tomorrow and then I do it, that's kind 1334 01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:16.600 of the same thing because you can always build a 1335 01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:18.960 building up to the sky. They're not the only ones 1336 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:19.479 that did that. 1337 01:09:20.119 --> 01:09:22.920 How is it different than I think it's presented. How 1338 01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.319 is it different than the things that you've presented though, RJ. 1339 01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:27.520 That's what I'm trying to get at. It kind of 1340 01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:31.520 sounds like in both scenarios, there was like more or 1341 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:36.479 less a command right that then came with some stipulations 1342 01:09:36.520 --> 01:09:38.680 like if you do this, then these things. If you 1343 01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:42.479 don't do this, then these things right in both scenarios, 1344 01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:45.119 it kind of sounds like they're really really similar, and 1345 01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.279 neither of them sound like what I think all of 1346 01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:52.279 us actually agree. Sounds more like a prophecy, which is 1347 01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:55.039 that silly thing I did about Darryl Ray having. 1348 01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:56.039 A kidney sign on his back. 1349 01:09:56.079 --> 01:09:58.920 In a year you know, like I mean, if that happens, 1350 01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:03.079 if somebody watches this episode of The Atheist Experience and 1351 01:10:03.159 --> 01:10:06.520 a year from now, seize Daryl Ray and me hugging 1352 01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:10.239 and laughing at some event, and they walk up behind 1353 01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:12.800 and put a sticker on the back of his sweater, 1354 01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:16.359 there is that fulfillment of prophecy. Am I am I 1355 01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:18.239 somehow now prophetic? 1356 01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:24.039 No, I wouldn't say that, because you probably go and 1357 01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:27.239 make that happen right point Yeah. 1358 01:10:27.279 --> 01:10:30.720 And that's an interesting component RJ. Because much of the 1359 01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:34.319 Bible was written in exactly that way. People came back 1360 01:10:34.399 --> 01:10:37.800 and made quote made the prophecies come true. I do 1361 01:10:37.880 --> 01:10:41.039 want to say this, I want to suggest this to you. 1362 01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:44.000 You have a what set of rules or logic rules 1363 01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:46.760 you apply to what you agree with, and you have 1364 01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:49.800 a very different set of logic and rules to things 1365 01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:53.760 you don't agree with, so you don't examine the Quran 1366 01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:56.000 in the same way as you examine the Bible. In fact, 1367 01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:59.159 you don't examine the Bible, and you claim you did 1368 01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:02.720 examine the Koran or the Bad Vagita you know, or 1369 01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:06.840 the Mormon Book of Mormon. I haven't heard your criteria 1370 01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:12.640 for accept your opinion and your repeating of whatever some 1371 01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:15.720 preacher told you about what the Bible says or didn't say. 1372 01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:18.359 So I would just challenge you to think about what 1373 01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.760 are your criteria for assessing truth? 1374 01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:26.920 Okay, well, I guess I can live with that. I 1375 01:11:27.159 --> 01:11:33.119 would just say that Christianity fulfilled the Old test Old 1376 01:11:33.159 --> 01:11:36.800 Testament propheties. So the reason I believe the Bible over 1377 01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:39.760 the Koran is the Bible fulfilled the Old Testament. 1378 01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:42.680 Posty, sure, I totally think. 1379 01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:45.119 I think I get I think I get that kind 1380 01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:48.640 of chain, And that makes sense to me in the 1381 01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:52.079 sense that if I were to believe that the New 1382 01:11:52.159 --> 01:11:56.119 Testament fulfilled that there were prophecy in the Old Testament 1383 01:11:56.159 --> 01:11:59.880 and the New Testament absolutely fulfills them, I could absolutely 1384 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:03.359 myself going heck, yeah, man, I believe it. It must 1385 01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:07.039 be true. It came to fruition The thing is, though, 1386 01:12:07.159 --> 01:12:10.359 again kind of like what Daryl was just saying. There, 1387 01:12:10.439 --> 01:12:15.159 you know, there's more problems before we even get to 1388 01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:19.479 the statement of oh Man, the New Testament fulfilled prophecy, 1389 01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:23.760 and there's already problems that we haven't we haven't addressed yet, 1390 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:26.279 and a couple of those being well, how do we 1391 01:12:26.399 --> 01:12:29.399 come to truth right, and the other one being well, 1392 01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:34.039 what exactly counts as a prophecy? I want to leave 1393 01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:36.039 it right there, r J, because I thought this was 1394 01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:38.279 a really good discussion. I did feel like we were 1395 01:12:38.319 --> 01:12:40.800 both we were both being charitable, We're both giving and 1396 01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:43.239 getting and learning and all that, and I think that's awesome. 1397 01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:46.960 And I'll just I love giving homework to people. Paulagia 1398 01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:50.439 is this guy on YouTube who does these awesome, you know, 1399 01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:55.720 little videos and animations and real, real interesting stuff, and 1400 01:12:55.760 --> 01:12:59.319 he talks a lot about you know, biblical archaeology and 1401 01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:01.880 you know, New Testament scholarship and all this. 1402 01:13:02.199 --> 01:13:03.640 He actually has. 1403 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:08.960 Laid out a really really nice and succinct list of 1404 01:13:09.279 --> 01:13:14.159 criteria that determines whether or not something is prophecy. I 1405 01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:17.279 use that a lot as my kind of guide guiding posts. 1406 01:13:17.319 --> 01:13:17.600 There. 1407 01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:21.880 What I would love because I'm sure, you know, they 1408 01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:25.319 will let me out of my tomb at least in 1409 01:13:25.399 --> 01:13:28.319 a year's time again. And then when I am back 1410 01:13:28.359 --> 01:13:31.560 on call in and let's talk about that, you know, 1411 01:13:31.840 --> 01:13:34.800 maybe he got something in that list wrong, maybe there's 1412 01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:37.800 maybe there's a flaw there, or maybe you look at 1413 01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:39.760 that list and you go, heck, yeah, man, I agree 1414 01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:41.479 with every single one of them, and hear all the 1415 01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:44.159 prophecies in the Old Testament that that match up to it. 1416 01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:45.960 So I think that could be a really a really 1417 01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:47.520 fun thing for both of us. And I'll go back 1418 01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:50.760 myself and and watch it in the meantime. But I 1419 01:13:50.800 --> 01:13:52.720 am gonna drop you like a hot rock RJ. And 1420 01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:55.199 I'm so sorry, but there's just no great way to 1421 01:13:56.199 --> 01:13:58.439 do that without it just cutting people off a little bit. 1422 01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:01.039 So I appreciate you, man, and we do have some 1423 01:14:01.079 --> 01:14:03.159 other really cool calls we're gonna grab here in just 1424 01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:03.680 a second. 1425 01:14:03.720 --> 01:14:06.960 But I think you're right. I think you're right, Darryl. 1426 01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:11.880 It's we The foundation is how do we come to 1427 01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:14.600 the conclusion that something is or is not true? That 1428 01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:17.319 that is critical, and if we don't have that, we 1429 01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:20.960 can't really make much more progress. 1430 01:14:21.039 --> 01:14:24.640 But I appreciate our Jay's honesty, and his honesty revealed 1431 01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:28.000 some flaws. I think that he can he can go 1432 01:14:28.039 --> 01:14:28.920 back and examine. 1433 01:14:29.119 --> 01:14:29.359 Yep. 1434 01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:31.680 I think we all should examine the flaws in our 1435 01:14:31.720 --> 01:14:34.479 own logic. And if you're one hundred percent certain, then 1436 01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:35.840 you are certainly flawed. 1437 01:14:37.560 --> 01:14:37.920 Yeah. 1438 01:14:38.039 --> 01:14:40.960 Yeah, that's my that's my version anyway, yep. 1439 01:14:41.119 --> 01:14:44.079 I love it, man, And we have a couple of 1440 01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:47.159 great super chats. I'm gonna read here real quick, and 1441 01:14:47.199 --> 01:14:49.399 then we've got some awesome calls I'm gonna grab. We 1442 01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:54.920 have one ninety nine pounds from mister fog horn sixty six. 1443 01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:57.079 I don't see a message, and so I'm just going 1444 01:14:57.159 --> 01:14:59.319 to say thank you so much, mister fog horn, and 1445 01:14:59.359 --> 01:15:00.239 give you a little. 1446 01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:03.279 Is that was that a fog horn? I was close 1447 01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:03.880 to a fog horn? 1448 01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:04.239 Right, yeah? 1449 01:15:04.279 --> 01:15:05.039 Close enough? Yeah? 1450 01:15:05.079 --> 01:15:07.199 Yeah, okay, okay, then. 1451 01:15:07.399 --> 01:15:09.279 Oh no, wait no, there is a message. There is 1452 01:15:09.319 --> 01:15:11.399 a message. I see it here, it's underneath it. So 1453 01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:15.000 that's my fault entirely. It says love Daryl Ray, John 1454 01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:17.159 Ireland Banger humanist and. 1455 01:15:17.439 --> 01:15:20.960 I oh, yes, yes, yes, I just met John on 1456 01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:25.239 my speaking tour in bad Hey John, goodness, see. 1457 01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:28.760 You, hey man. Thanks for tuning in John. That is awesome. 1458 01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:32.920 And I did a speaking tour of Ireland and the 1459 01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:36.159 United Kingdom and that's where I met John just in October. 1460 01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:37.760 It was a fun tour to do. 1461 01:15:38.439 --> 01:15:41.239 That's awesome. That is so frecking cool. And look at that. 1462 01:15:41.319 --> 01:15:43.640 John, you got me to make a fog horn sound 1463 01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:45.039 on one of the live shows. 1464 01:15:46.520 --> 01:15:50.479 That is like bonus for you. We also just got. 1465 01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:53.960 One in four ninety nine dollars from Clash two three 1466 01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:56.760 four seven, been a member for one year. Wants to 1467 01:15:56.800 --> 01:16:02.800 say that Hexagons are superior and stay rock hard for Doug. Yes, yes, indeed, 1468 01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:08.199 I think we should grab another call because we got 1469 01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:08.960 some cool ones. 1470 01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:12.760 I want to go to Harah. 1471 01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:16.119 She the pronouns is an atheist calling from the US 1472 01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:18.760 and want some advice on how to deal with religious 1473 01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:21.159 in laws in Easter. So, Daryl, I think you have 1474 01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:23.720 a little bit of experience with this type of stuff 1475 01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:27.600 just a few decades or so, so this is definitely 1476 01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:29.520 gonna be your call, man. 1477 01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:31.279 But hey, Harrah, you are on. 1478 01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:33.800 The atheist experience with secularity and doctor. 1479 01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:36.600 Daryl Ray, Hi glad to be here. 1480 01:16:37.239 --> 01:16:38.279 Yeah, thanks so much. 1481 01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:41.279 Yeah, so tell us give us a little bit of 1482 01:16:41.399 --> 01:16:44.159 an understanding of kind of the situation you're dealing with, 1483 01:16:44.199 --> 01:16:47.000 and I will let I will let the wonderful doctor 1484 01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:49.920 take over. I will go ahead and make the disclaimer 1485 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:52.159 that none of this is therapy, none of this is 1486 01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:55.680 actual advisor, and go get you know, just for you know, 1487 01:16:55.680 --> 01:16:58.439 we're keeping all of ourselves safe here legally. But yeah, 1488 01:16:58.520 --> 01:16:59.920 give us a give us an understanding. 1489 01:17:00.039 --> 01:17:02.760 What are you dealing with? Haarah? 1490 01:17:03.159 --> 01:17:07.800 So I deconverted about two years ago and I'm still 1491 01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:12.359 married with my husband, who is sort of agnostics, still 1492 01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:16.680 almost like a cultural Christian, goes to church for the 1493 01:17:18.159 --> 01:17:23.039 community of it. But his parents have been increasingly passive 1494 01:17:23.039 --> 01:17:29.359 aggressive toward him about my actions and especially today apparently 1495 01:17:29.399 --> 01:17:32.319 it happened that they approached him about needing to be 1496 01:17:32.399 --> 01:17:36.560 the man of the house about me not attending Easter 1497 01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:41.279 celebrations today with them even though I was working today. 1498 01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:45.840 So it's not a great relationship. But I'm wondering if 1499 01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:49.960 there's anything I can do to further support him, or 1500 01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:53.079 if I need to take over and start to confront 1501 01:17:53.079 --> 01:17:56.399 this conversation with my in laws directly, and if you 1502 01:17:56.439 --> 01:17:58.720 have any recommendations. 1503 01:17:58.319 --> 01:18:00.119 Yeah, Darryl, please take over. 1504 01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:08.079 Wow, Okay, that's uh. That's interesting. So you your husband has 1505 01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:10.920 he has he brought this issue to you or did 1506 01:18:10.960 --> 01:18:13.920 you experience it? Have you been experiencing it personally? 1507 01:18:15.720 --> 01:18:18.560 He brought this issue to me. He told me about 1508 01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:21.640 a really rough conversation he had with his parents. 1509 01:18:22.279 --> 01:18:26.840 Okay, okay, and uh is he asking something of you? 1510 01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:33.960 Not right now, more just it was in a conversation 1511 01:18:34.039 --> 01:18:38.159 of venting about it really sucks to have my parents 1512 01:18:38.159 --> 01:18:40.359 do this to me, especially when you're not even here 1513 01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:44.560 and you're at work. He's incredibly supportive. I just feel 1514 01:18:44.600 --> 01:18:46.600 for him being under pressure when I'm not. 1515 01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:52.880 Even there right right, Yeah, that it is unfortunate and 1516 01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:57.439 very just emotionally disturbing to have that kind of dynamic 1517 01:18:57.479 --> 01:19:01.520 in a family. And unfortunately we come from religion, we 1518 01:19:01.560 --> 01:19:04.600 hear this every single day, so almost every single hour 1519 01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:09.760 what you're talking about. So have you heard of I'll 1520 01:19:09.800 --> 01:19:15.039 just recommend real quickly a book. Just just as I 1521 01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:17.239 get ready to recommend it, it lives out of my head. 1522 01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:19.800 I'll try to remember it later. There's a couple of 1523 01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:22.079 good books on how to deal with this kind of 1524 01:19:22.159 --> 01:19:27.479 problem I'm not drawing of right now. Let me go 1525 01:19:27.560 --> 01:19:31.399 back to you, though, So what is he asked. He's 1526 01:19:31.439 --> 01:19:36.279 not asking you to do anything, not right. 1527 01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:38.000 Now, and I don't think he would. 1528 01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:42.039 He generally assumes that he needs to deal with his 1529 01:19:42.119 --> 01:19:47.039 parents because they're his parents. And I'm wondering if I 1530 01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:51.039 take some sort of action, is about me? Their problems 1531 01:19:51.039 --> 01:19:53.560 are about me, but they're bugging him about it. 1532 01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:59.680 Their problems are about you. But there, that's what they're saying. 1533 01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:05.319 Problems are really with their own son. True. So whose 1534 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.920 responsibility is it to resolve the conflict between the parent 1535 01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:11.000 and the child. 1536 01:20:13.479 --> 01:20:17.319 The wife of the child, because that's kind of how 1537 01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:20.239 I grew up feeling and I'm still working on deconstructing 1538 01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:22.560 that where I have to fix everybody. 1539 01:20:23.800 --> 01:20:27.760 Ah, well, there you go. Good, good reflection. That's a 1540 01:20:27.800 --> 01:20:33.960 great reflection. Well that's one thing we did learn in church, 1541 01:20:34.039 --> 01:20:38.399 didn't we That the woman, the wife should always be 1542 01:20:38.479 --> 01:20:43.479 responsible for keeping the avoiding the conflict, or resolving the conflict. 1543 01:20:44.119 --> 01:20:50.439 So you you take on the burden. Yeah, pardon yeah, yeah, that's. 1544 01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:53.520 The emotional Yeah. 1545 01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:58.159 So let's do a little imaginary let's play out a 1546 01:20:58.159 --> 01:21:01.279 little imaginary scene here. Let's I want you to go 1547 01:21:01.319 --> 01:21:04.159 ahead in your mind and take on all this burden 1548 01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:08.680 of the problem between your husband and his parents. What's 1549 01:21:08.720 --> 01:21:10.000 that look like here from now? 1550 01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:16.000 Not? 1551 01:21:16.119 --> 01:21:16.680 Good? 1552 01:21:18.039 --> 01:21:19.279 Can you be more specific? 1553 01:21:23.079 --> 01:21:27.880 I don't know that tempers would remain. 1554 01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:32.119 Calm, and I don't know that it. 1555 01:21:32.079 --> 01:21:35.159 Wouldn't make us fracture more. And I don't think that 1556 01:21:35.319 --> 01:21:39.760 I would. I don't know that they have the ability 1557 01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:46.560 to handle a calm, courteous conversation about their concerns about 1558 01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:50.880 my belief or disbelief or attendance at religious rituals, right. 1559 01:21:50.920 --> 01:21:53.000 I don't know that they could handle that without it 1560 01:21:53.079 --> 01:21:56.479 turning into temper slaring, and I think that it would 1561 01:21:56.520 --> 01:21:57.439 fracture us further. 1562 01:21:58.439 --> 01:22:01.520 Okay, Okay, So taking on all the burdens really not 1563 01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:03.399 going to make a big difference, or it might make 1564 01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:05.479 a difference in the sense it actually gets worse. Is 1565 01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:06.279 that what you're saying. 1566 01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:09.159 Yeah, I think it would get worse. 1567 01:22:10.039 --> 01:22:15.359 Okay. I think it's important in relationships to keep the 1568 01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:21.039 lines of responsibility really crystal clear. And your husband's relationship 1569 01:22:21.079 --> 01:22:27.560 with his parents is his responsibility, not yours. I'm being 1570 01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:30.520 pretty firm about that, and I you know, there may 1571 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:33.720 be exceptions, but I've heard this way too many times 1572 01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:35.920 that the wife trait tries to take on the burden 1573 01:22:35.960 --> 01:22:38.880 of resolving the problem between the husband and the in laws. 1574 01:22:41.039 --> 01:22:44.319 Can't imagine how that's going to work out in your favor. 1575 01:22:48.359 --> 01:22:50.880 Is there anything I can do to help him without 1576 01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:54.520 it turning into me trying to control the whole situation? 1577 01:22:56.000 --> 01:23:01.399 Well, okay, you just identified something trying to control the situation. 1578 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:09.439 Whose responsibility it is to control the situation? Is okay? 1579 01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:13.079 So if you take on his responsibility, what's what's the 1580 01:23:13.119 --> 01:23:14.960 consequence of that a year from now? 1581 01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:23.159 I think he would have a worse a relationship with 1582 01:23:23.199 --> 01:23:26.199 his parents too, and I don't necessarily want that either. 1583 01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:30.199 So you're you're in charge of managing his relationship with 1584 01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:30.800 his parents. 1585 01:23:32.479 --> 01:23:33.960 Doesn't sound like that's gonna work. 1586 01:23:36.239 --> 01:23:40.760 No, it's not, and it it probably won't work, Parah. 1587 01:23:40.880 --> 01:23:45.000 And you are. You are deeply concerned for your husband, 1588 01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:49.600 and that is absolutely reasonable. And you've also sounds to 1589 01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:51.680 me like you've done a good job of listening to 1590 01:23:51.880 --> 01:23:55.760 your husband and empathizing with your husband, and all those 1591 01:23:55.800 --> 01:24:00.199 things are absolutely perfect. That's what you want. I want 1592 01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:03.239 in my partner. I want somebody who's going to have 1593 01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:08.000 my back emotionally, so to speak. But and there's a 1594 01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:12.960 big bet, isn't it. I also don't want to absolve 1595 01:24:13.039 --> 01:24:16.840 me myself of the responsibility of dealing with the conflicts 1596 01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:21.159 that are my responsibility and not my very supportive and 1597 01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:26.159 helpful and concerned partner. You are a very helpful, concerned partner, 1598 01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:30.000 and that is super admirable. That's why we have partners 1599 01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:34.600 on this planet. Does that make sense so far? 1600 01:24:37.560 --> 01:24:37.920 Yeah? 1601 01:24:38.039 --> 01:24:38.439 It does. 1602 01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:45.239 It helps out that probably can't do much, keep trying 1603 01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:47.720 to support him in anything he decides to do. 1604 01:24:48.840 --> 01:24:52.039 Yep, right, and he's gonna have he's going to have 1605 01:24:52.039 --> 01:24:54.840 to make some tough decisions. He's going to have to 1606 01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:56.720 go over to his parents' house and sit down with 1607 01:24:56.800 --> 01:24:58.880 him and say, look, mom and dad, here's the way 1608 01:24:58.960 --> 01:25:02.159 I'm living my life, and here's how my wife and 1609 01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:05.079 I are living our lives. And that is our choice, 1610 01:25:05.159 --> 01:25:08.479 not yours. We would love to have a great relationship 1611 01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:14.359 with you. Mind us the imposition of religious requirements. They 1612 01:25:14.399 --> 01:25:17.199 may or may not go along with that. It probably won't, 1613 01:25:17.680 --> 01:25:20.319 but that's that's your husband's responsibility. 1614 01:25:22.720 --> 01:25:26.800 And don't don't think of it as because I there's 1615 01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:29.079 there's not much. There's not much I can add on 1616 01:25:29.159 --> 01:25:32.439 to to what Darryl Ray has already said. Harrah, But 1617 01:25:33.479 --> 01:25:37.199 my my little bit here would just be don't think 1618 01:25:37.239 --> 01:25:40.920 of it as all I can do is just support him. 1619 01:25:41.319 --> 01:25:44.039 The thing you are doing is one of the most 1620 01:25:44.199 --> 01:25:49.920 important freaking things during this time. You supporting him is 1621 01:25:49.960 --> 01:25:52.319 one of the greatest freaking things you can do. 1622 01:25:52.600 --> 01:25:55.000 And the fact that you choose to do it all the. 1623 01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:59.199 Time, that's awesome, right because you know, let's be honest, 1624 01:25:59.560 --> 01:26:01.479 we could all we'll go our separate ways. We could 1625 01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:04.840 all hear about somebody having a tough time and then decide, Eh, 1626 01:26:05.199 --> 01:26:08.359 not my burden, not my problem. Hope it works out, buddy, 1627 01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:10.840 I'll see you next week. But that's not what you're doing. 1628 01:26:11.119 --> 01:26:14.800 You're not just supporting him. It's not all you can do. 1629 01:26:15.199 --> 01:26:17.920 It's the most important fucking thing you can be doing 1630 01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:22.000 right now, and you're choosing to do it. So that's awesome, 1631 01:26:22.119 --> 01:26:26.000 that's huge. You know, we all go through those tough times, 1632 01:26:26.079 --> 01:26:29.640 and ninety nine out of one hundred freaking times would 1633 01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:32.720 wear through them. The one thing we all go is, man, 1634 01:26:32.760 --> 01:26:34.520 I really wish I had somebody there to support me. 1635 01:26:34.640 --> 01:26:37.920 I wish I wish all I had was just a 1636 01:26:37.960 --> 01:26:38.640 little support. 1637 01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:42.640 It's the most important thing ever. Harah. 1638 01:26:43.119 --> 01:26:43.760 Thank you for that. 1639 01:26:44.680 --> 01:26:47.600 Yeah, you're crushing it. I think you're doing a great job. 1640 01:26:47.720 --> 01:26:52.119 And I have heard that there is this little organization 1641 01:26:52.279 --> 01:26:58.399 been around about seventeen ish years, I think, where they 1642 01:26:58.479 --> 01:27:02.560 have these have these individuals on phone lines that are 1643 01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:04.199 ready to go at a moment's notice. 1644 01:27:04.239 --> 01:27:05.000 You just call in. 1645 01:27:05.079 --> 01:27:08.479 It's totally free, and they will talk with you about 1646 01:27:08.479 --> 01:27:11.880 a lot of different things, especially things that have to 1647 01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:17.359 do with like recovering from religion or religious I can't remember. 1648 01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:19.159 What the name of that place was, Daryl, do you 1649 01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:19.720 remember what? 1650 01:27:19.920 --> 01:27:23.039 Oh, I know, you're just you're you're you're pulling my 1651 01:27:23.119 --> 01:27:26.840 leg recovering for religion. Of course, that's haarrah haarrah. I 1652 01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:31.359 went underlined stuff that you are doing the right stuff, 1653 01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:35.479 as Elliott said, you're doing the right stuff. Keep keep 1654 01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:39.079 the lines of responsibility crystal clear, and you will actually 1655 01:27:39.159 --> 01:27:42.760 help your husband better and more than if then if 1656 01:27:42.760 --> 01:27:45.840 you wouldn't sit down with his parents or any other option, 1657 01:27:46.079 --> 01:27:48.680 which is clearly not a good option, by the way, 1658 01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:54.439 And I love your attitude. You're it's discouraging to watch. 1659 01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:59.479 I totally understand that. I'm I'm guessing many of the 1660 01:27:59.479 --> 01:28:02.000 people listening to us right now. I've gone through something 1661 01:28:02.079 --> 01:28:06.039 like this because families really do put religion. I gave 1662 01:28:06.039 --> 01:28:09.359 a talk hero I gave a talk sometime back in 1663 01:28:09.439 --> 01:28:14.720 London about religious trauma and one of the key things 1664 01:28:14.760 --> 01:28:18.359 that people face when they're dealing with religious issues is 1665 01:28:18.399 --> 01:28:24.880 the attachment parental attachment or detachment. What we see in 1666 01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:29.279 many cases is religious parents are more attached to their 1667 01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:32.920 religion than they are to their kids. Think about that. 1668 01:28:33.000 --> 01:28:36.720 I'm more attached to Jesus than abdemoon children. And what 1669 01:28:36.880 --> 01:28:40.079 your husband's parents are doing is they are making a 1670 01:28:40.199 --> 01:28:45.880 choice to choose their religion over their child. That is 1671 01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:48.399 a part of the brain. The attachment part of the 1672 01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:52.199 brain is what's being affected there. And they have inappropriately 1673 01:28:52.239 --> 01:28:56.920 been attached to their Jesus as opposed to appropriately attached 1674 01:28:56.920 --> 01:29:01.039 to their child. Let me stop. Does that make sense? 1675 01:29:02.439 --> 01:29:05.479 That's really true because they I feel like they don't 1676 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:10.399 even know who he is, and especially with how much 1677 01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:13.600 I've seen him grow through and support me through my deconversion. 1678 01:29:14.640 --> 01:29:17.159 He's amazing, and I don't think that they know that. 1679 01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:19.439 They see him as the little kids who's a. 1680 01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:23.560 Body and a sinner rather than the amazing person that 1681 01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:23.880 he is. 1682 01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:28.520 Now you have just hit You've hit a great nail 1683 01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:31.479 on the head there. They see him still as their child, 1684 01:29:31.520 --> 01:29:35.239 don't they. They don't see him as their adult son. 1685 01:29:35.319 --> 01:29:38.640 They see him as their still as their child, and 1686 01:29:38.680 --> 01:29:43.840 they're still attached to that child in their own head. 1687 01:29:44.920 --> 01:29:48.560 And when you try to get in and solve this problem, 1688 01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:51.920 it just it will just mix the problem up more 1689 01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:55.079 by supporting him. And by the way, it sounds like 1690 01:29:55.119 --> 01:29:58.760 you've got a great partner there. I'm thank You're lucky stars. 1691 01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:00.760 You've got somebody that's going to to stand by you. 1692 01:30:00.800 --> 01:30:05.479 That's wonderful and upose he stood just behind you as well. 1693 01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:08.039 So you guys are really creating a great bond, a 1694 01:30:08.039 --> 01:30:11.439 great support system for each other. And don't let his 1695 01:30:11.600 --> 01:30:16.720 parents affect that they're the ones that are still attached 1696 01:30:16.760 --> 01:30:19.720 to their Jesus and not to their their son. 1697 01:30:21.600 --> 01:30:22.800 And uh haarah I. 1698 01:30:23.319 --> 01:30:26.439 I've asked people in the past whenever they've called in 1699 01:30:26.520 --> 01:30:29.319 and they've they've had something like this, Because you know 1700 01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:32.119 how much we love to push back on the religious 1701 01:30:32.119 --> 01:30:34.960 claims and the Bible and all that stuff. But I 1702 01:30:35.000 --> 01:30:39.479 think this type of call, this type of story is 1703 01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:43.439 something that can really build some deep lasting connections in 1704 01:30:43.479 --> 01:30:47.079 a community. So I mean, if you're cool with it, 1705 01:30:47.560 --> 01:30:49.560 give us a call back and a little bit of 1706 01:30:49.560 --> 01:30:52.960 time when when maybe you know you've tried some things 1707 01:30:53.079 --> 01:30:55.880 or some things have worked, or or even if they didn't, 1708 01:30:55.960 --> 01:30:58.920 you know, let let us know and remember that you've 1709 01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:01.000 got a community here and you got some people that 1710 01:31:01.159 --> 01:31:03.199 are rooting for you and stuff. I'm sure if you 1711 01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:05.960 look at the chat right now on the live stream 1712 01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:09.199 where wherever, wherever you're watching, h I'm sure there's a 1713 01:31:09.239 --> 01:31:11.399 bunch of love being thrown out to you. So thank 1714 01:31:11.439 --> 01:31:14.239 you so much for calling in today and sharing this, 1715 01:31:14.319 --> 01:31:15.720 and I hope we get an update. 1716 01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:17.760 I hope everything gets gets a little bit better. 1717 01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:20.840 So if you need to talk to more, do call 1718 01:31:21.239 --> 01:31:23.399 the helpline. We're always happy to talk to you. 1719 01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:26.920 Recovering from religion data Org gets super easy, peasy, and 1720 01:31:27.279 --> 01:31:30.560 they're they're there to listen and to talk and any 1721 01:31:30.680 --> 01:31:33.159 like any time zone by the way, like they're I 1722 01:31:33.199 --> 01:31:36.359 think like covering twenty three out of twenty four time zones, 1723 01:31:36.399 --> 01:31:39.319 and some of those time zones is like mostly ocean, 1724 01:31:39.359 --> 01:31:40.640 you guys, so think about that. 1725 01:31:41.159 --> 01:31:43.560 Uh, thank you so much. Hair, I'm gonna I'm gonna 1726 01:31:43.600 --> 01:31:45.640 let you go, and I'm gonna grab some of our 1727 01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.239 other calls. Hopefully I don't Hopefully I don't drop you 1728 01:31:48.279 --> 01:31:50.800 too fast, but I probably did so I'm very sorry. 1729 01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:53.279 But h man, I I love that. 1730 01:31:53.399 --> 01:31:56.920 I think that stuff is is so so important. We 1731 01:31:56.960 --> 01:32:00.680 are all dealing with so much baggage, and you know, 1732 01:32:00.800 --> 01:32:04.239 our nervous systems are just on high alert constantly, you know. 1733 01:32:05.319 --> 01:32:08.920 So it Yeah, there is a lot for each of 1734 01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:11.119 us to kind of kind of work through, and it 1735 01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:14.680 can be really difficult, especially when you see people that 1736 01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:18.760 you care about being hurt over and over by family 1737 01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:21.319 members or close you know, close friends, or you know, 1738 01:32:21.399 --> 01:32:24.239 colleagues at work. I have a I have a buddy 1739 01:32:24.359 --> 01:32:26.439 got fired because he came out as atheists. 1740 01:32:26.520 --> 01:32:26.720 You know. 1741 01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:29.960 I have friends that have lost you know, all of 1742 01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:33.600 their all of their connections, right, we we all have unfortunately. 1743 01:32:33.880 --> 01:32:36.840 So but that's what we're here for, folks. We we 1744 01:32:36.960 --> 01:32:38.880 are here as a community. We want to be there 1745 01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:41.000 for you. And there are a lot of other really 1746 01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:45.000 phenomenal places out there that that the ACA has worked 1747 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:47.079 with for a really long time, and there are just 1748 01:32:47.119 --> 01:32:52.760 some beautiful, beautiful connections there. And in fact, speaking of beautifulness, 1749 01:32:53.159 --> 01:32:56.960 there is a group of people that volunteer their time 1750 01:32:57.119 --> 01:33:00.319 regularly to make this show happen, and that that is 1751 01:33:00.399 --> 01:33:04.920 our incredible, wonderful crew. Could we get that crew cam 1752 01:33:05.000 --> 01:33:07.159 up and see all those incredible look at this. 1753 01:33:07.399 --> 01:33:10.840 We got a full freaking house tonight. That is a 1754 01:33:10.960 --> 01:33:13.000 bunch of awesome freaking people. 1755 01:33:13.079 --> 01:33:13.479 You guys. 1756 01:33:13.479 --> 01:33:14.520 We got video. 1757 01:33:14.239 --> 01:33:18.520 Operators, audio operators, note takers, call screeners, chet moderators, people 1758 01:33:18.520 --> 01:33:21.479 that help keep the lights on at the building, people 1759 01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:25.399 that read your emails and respond, people that plan huge, 1760 01:33:25.720 --> 01:33:31.000 awesome twenty four hour livestream fundraiser events on May sixteenth, 1761 01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:35.319 that's six pm Central time starting. Hint, hint, And if 1762 01:33:35.399 --> 01:33:38.239 you want to be one of those awesome people, guess 1763 01:33:38.239 --> 01:33:41.760 what you can do it. You can be a guest 1764 01:33:41.800 --> 01:33:44.800 on one of our shows. You could even eventually become 1765 01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:48.560 a host, or if you just really really love note 1766 01:33:48.560 --> 01:33:51.439 taking and call screening and all these other wonderful things 1767 01:33:51.479 --> 01:33:54.760 that are super important, we are always looking for people 1768 01:33:54.880 --> 01:33:57.199 here that would like to be a part of the production. 1769 01:33:57.399 --> 01:34:00.600 So very easy, just email volunteer at. 1770 01:34:00.439 --> 01:34:05.680 Atheist Hyphencommunity dot org and some wonderful volunteer will get 1771 01:34:05.680 --> 01:34:09.439 back to you and then after a little while, maybe 1772 01:34:09.520 --> 01:34:11.800 you could be the one responding to all the brand 1773 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:14.039 new volunteers, and you get to say to them things 1774 01:34:14.119 --> 01:34:17.800 like I remember the first time I was ever in 1775 01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:21.960 discord with Greg and he yelled at me because he did. 1776 01:34:21.840 --> 01:34:23.880 A bad job call screening. And I'm not saying he 1777 01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:24.359 was wrong. 1778 01:34:24.399 --> 01:34:26.199 I'm just saying some of the some of the four 1779 01:34:26.279 --> 01:34:31.720 letter words he used were a little bit much. AnyWho, 1780 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:35.039 though we have we have some other things to talk. 1781 01:34:35.119 --> 01:34:36.920 Don't don't let them see you cried. Don't let them 1782 01:34:36.920 --> 01:34:39.079 see you cry. Don't let him see you cry. Okay, 1783 01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:42.239 we're gonna go out. We're gonna go out to Washington 1784 01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:42.840 real quick. 1785 01:34:43.079 --> 01:34:45.680 We've got an atheist on the line, Big Urn, he 1786 01:34:45.840 --> 01:34:49.239 him pronouns, wants to ask about if Jesus died for 1787 01:34:49.279 --> 01:34:50.880 our sins, why are women still. 1788 01:34:50.640 --> 01:34:52.960 Suffering the burden of original sin? Why? 1789 01:34:53.079 --> 01:34:55.640 I like that one, big Ern. I think we all 1790 01:34:55.680 --> 01:34:58.279 have some thoughts on that. How are you today? 1791 01:34:58.560 --> 01:34:59.439 I'm doing good. 1792 01:34:59.520 --> 01:34:59.840 How are you? 1793 01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:03.800 It's good to see you and hear you again, and yeah, 1794 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:06.760 doctor Ray, I haven't seen you before, but it's nice 1795 01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:09.039 to see you. And I guess I'm thoughts on leadership myself. 1796 01:35:09.119 --> 01:35:14.039 There. Okay, awesome, Well, I'll give my quick. 1797 01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:16.000 I know this is a little tongue in cheek, right, 1798 01:35:16.079 --> 01:35:17.560 but I'll give my my quick. 1799 01:35:17.640 --> 01:35:17.920 Okay. 1800 01:35:18.520 --> 01:35:21.800 The reason why women are still suffering the burden of 1801 01:35:21.880 --> 01:35:27.159 original sin is because God was actually lying from the beginning. 1802 01:35:27.319 --> 01:35:29.079 Like we know in the story of Genesis, he said, 1803 01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:31.079 once you eat from the tree, you will die that day. 1804 01:35:31.159 --> 01:35:32.279 That doesn't happen, and. 1805 01:35:32.399 --> 01:35:36.960 God was continuing to lie when in reality, God purposefully 1806 01:35:37.159 --> 01:35:40.000 wanted to make the world so that women suffer. I 1807 01:35:40.319 --> 01:35:44.279 just feel like that is a much more logical answer, Darryl, 1808 01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:44.960 What do you. 1809 01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:48.600 Think, man, Well, of course I'm a I'm a high 1810 01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:50.720 priest or the Church of Flying Span Monsters, so I 1811 01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:52.760 don't believe in sin, at least not in the way 1812 01:35:52.880 --> 01:35:56.079 that the Christians believe in it. I'm kind of pissed 1813 01:35:56.119 --> 01:35:58.439 because I think it's reverse. I think men are the 1814 01:35:58.520 --> 01:36:01.479 ones that are suffering from original sin if there was one, 1815 01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:04.640 because women could have multiple orgasms and we seem to 1816 01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:09.239 only have like one or two, you know. So that's study. 1817 01:36:09.239 --> 01:36:10.640 That's trick. That's the study. 1818 01:36:10.920 --> 01:36:11.600 That's tan trick. 1819 01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:17.600 This is great, This is great, Darryl. I don't think 1820 01:36:17.760 --> 01:36:19.880 either of us will be asked back on this show. 1821 01:36:19.960 --> 01:36:23.079 For a while, but we will, we will continue, we 1822 01:36:23.119 --> 01:36:26.000 will power through this one because they can't just shut 1823 01:36:26.079 --> 01:36:26.640 us off yet. 1824 01:36:27.199 --> 01:36:28.800 Uh so, yeah, what give us? 1825 01:36:29.119 --> 01:36:30.920 Give us some thoughts bigger and you said you had, 1826 01:36:31.199 --> 01:36:33.159 You said you had some thoughts on secular leadership. 1827 01:36:33.239 --> 01:36:34.920 Yeah, so my well, my thought. 1828 01:36:34.960 --> 01:36:38.000 Well, first off, let's go back to the original sin Port. Yeah, 1829 01:36:38.079 --> 01:36:40.960 I was raised by a drill sergeant. Father. He was 1830 01:36:40.960 --> 01:36:42.760 a drill sergeant in the US Army. I was an 1831 01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:45.520 army brider, lived all over the world, you know, as 1832 01:36:45.640 --> 01:36:48.159 Twain said at one point after he was a bigot. 1833 01:36:48.439 --> 01:36:51.319 He said, you know, the best enemy at the enemy 1834 01:36:51.359 --> 01:36:55.239 of bigotry and racism his travel. But but anyway, I 1835 01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:58.359 was raised by a drill sergeant who regularly drilled my 1836 01:36:58.520 --> 01:37:02.159 ass with a belt. And and I thought, on that is, 1837 01:37:02.800 --> 01:37:06.640 if my dad continually said I forgive you once a 1838 01:37:06.760 --> 01:37:10.079 month while drilling my ass with a belt, I'd be like, 1839 01:37:10.800 --> 01:37:14.319 why you know, or you know, every night, after nine 1840 01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:18.560 months of carrying this big ass beer belly around, he's 1841 01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:21.159 still like kicking me in the ass saying I forgive you. 1842 01:37:21.920 --> 01:37:22.840 Yeah, it's pretty. 1843 01:37:22.600 --> 01:37:27.439 Fucked up in Yeah, yeah, this might be this might 1844 01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:29.800 be crazy, you guys, but I just had this thought, 1845 01:37:30.199 --> 01:37:35.239 But it is possible that the Abrahamic religions are really misogynistic. 1846 01:37:35.399 --> 01:37:38.279 I'm not I'm not sure, honestly. 1847 01:37:38.520 --> 01:37:40.760 I might need to do a little more research, but 1848 01:37:40.840 --> 01:37:43.920 it's it's starting to lean that way in my eyes now. 1849 01:37:44.079 --> 01:37:45.600 I think they lift women up. 1850 01:37:46.119 --> 01:37:46.680 You know that. 1851 01:37:50.279 --> 01:37:52.359 We didn't have we didn't have equal rights and equal 1852 01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:54.439 pay until until the Bible came. 1853 01:37:54.359 --> 01:37:59.279 Along the way. We still don't have equal rights. But yeah, 1854 01:37:59.319 --> 01:38:01.960 what what the what are your thoughts? Bigger? And on 1855 01:38:02.920 --> 01:38:03.560 leadership and. 1856 01:38:03.600 --> 01:38:06.560 Stuff so on that that goes down to each one 1857 01:38:06.600 --> 01:38:06.880 of us. 1858 01:38:06.880 --> 01:38:12.039 Individually as parents. As I was lucky enough to be 1859 01:38:12.159 --> 01:38:15.199 able to take my son and walk into school every 1860 01:38:15.279 --> 01:38:19.520 morning through most of his elementary days, and every morning 1861 01:38:19.680 --> 01:38:22.800 we had a saying as we walk to school, what 1862 01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:24.279 are we going to be today? 1863 01:38:24.960 --> 01:38:25.439 A leader? 1864 01:38:26.119 --> 01:38:29.520 How do we be a leader by showing respect? How 1865 01:38:29.600 --> 01:38:32.560 do we show respect by being kind and nice and 1866 01:38:32.760 --> 01:38:36.119 following the rules? You know, I mean these little things, 1867 01:38:36.199 --> 01:38:38.800 these little lessons, and we repeat them every day, but 1868 01:38:39.439 --> 01:38:42.640 they sink in there's nothing secular or there's nothing. 1869 01:38:42.600 --> 01:38:43.600 Religious about that. 1870 01:38:43.800 --> 01:38:48.399 There's nothing religious about setting an example. The number one 1871 01:38:48.479 --> 01:38:50.960 thing about being a leader is setting the example and 1872 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:54.760 having good results come because of that example. Got Exampbell 1873 01:38:54.880 --> 01:38:58.079 is what being a leader is. People see that and 1874 01:38:58.520 --> 01:39:01.399 want to follow that. I remember at one point I 1875 01:39:01.479 --> 01:39:04.640 had a boss in my early twenties just said I 1876 01:39:04.920 --> 01:39:08.880 command respect, and I thought to myself, no, He said 1877 01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:12.960 I demand respect, and I thought myself, nobody demands respect. 1878 01:39:13.560 --> 01:39:17.960 You command respect by the example that you set. You 1879 01:39:18.039 --> 01:39:18.479 know what I mean? 1880 01:39:19.279 --> 01:39:21.920 Yeah? For sure? Yeah, Daryl, what are your thoughts on that? 1881 01:39:22.479 --> 01:39:25.560 Well? I think I think I think you may have 1882 01:39:25.640 --> 01:39:28.560 already taken the class, because isn't that what we talk about. 1883 01:39:30.119 --> 01:39:30.439 I don't know. 1884 01:39:32.119 --> 01:39:35.119 First, this is my first exposure to your doctor, Darryl. 1885 01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:38.680 For you know, I think that's just more so coming 1886 01:39:38.760 --> 01:39:40.680 from my dad. Even though my dad did beat the 1887 01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:42.119 shit out of me and he taught me a lot 1888 01:39:42.159 --> 01:39:45.119 of things not to do, he did teach me a 1889 01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:48.560 lot of things to do and how to be, you know, 1890 01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:51.319 how to set that example and how to how to be, 1891 01:39:51.520 --> 01:39:55.479 how to have integrity and walk the walk and then 1892 01:39:55.520 --> 01:39:57.560 also supprise those who walk the walk. 1893 01:39:58.680 --> 01:40:02.359 The leader I've done. I do not endorse your dad's 1894 01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:07.079 approach to childhood discipline, but besides that, I'll just do 1895 01:40:07.279 --> 01:40:15.319 myself I'll just say that I've studied leadership my entire career. 1896 01:40:15.479 --> 01:40:19.119 My entire career was built on leadership development, and I've 1897 01:40:19.239 --> 01:40:22.439 studied a lot of military leaders and it's it's pretty 1898 01:40:22.479 --> 01:40:26.880 clear what you see in in some of the best 1899 01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:29.520 military leaders as they led from the front, not from 1900 01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:33.760 the back, you know. And in the North North Africa 1901 01:40:33.880 --> 01:40:37.079 Campaign and World War Two, the generals that got fired 1902 01:40:37.119 --> 01:40:38.800 were the ones that tried to run the show from 1903 01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:40.800 the back, and the ones. 1904 01:40:40.640 --> 01:40:44.119 That got out there was also trying to run it 1905 01:40:44.199 --> 01:40:45.600 from the front at the same time. 1906 01:40:45.760 --> 01:40:48.079 He just had some some really bad views. 1907 01:40:49.399 --> 01:40:53.239 Well he did, But I'm just saying leading from the 1908 01:40:53.319 --> 01:40:56.000 front is of course it's dangerous, and in the army 1909 01:40:56.159 --> 01:40:59.760 it's it's even more dangerous. But you're not you're not 1910 01:41:00.159 --> 01:41:02.520 danger of your life when you're leading a secular group 1911 01:41:02.600 --> 01:41:06.600 in Topeka, Kansas, like we heard from Sean. So there's 1912 01:41:06.680 --> 01:41:11.680 no danger. The danger is your own perceived weakness. And 1913 01:41:11.800 --> 01:41:15.119 if you just realize, okay, I'm out here, I'm going 1914 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:17.439 to put my example out here, You're much more likely 1915 01:41:17.640 --> 01:41:21.600 to get followers than you are trying to tell people 1916 01:41:21.640 --> 01:41:23.000 what to do, exactly, show. 1917 01:41:22.800 --> 01:41:28.640 People exactly, let your enemies set the example for others 1918 01:41:28.760 --> 01:41:32.520 not to follow. Yeah, if you look back to history, 1919 01:41:32.560 --> 01:41:34.479 you were bringing up World War Two. But if you 1920 01:41:34.520 --> 01:41:37.560 look back to history, going back to Alexander the Great, yes, 1921 01:41:37.640 --> 01:41:40.319 he had those early victories against the Persians, but by 1922 01:41:40.359 --> 01:41:43.079 the time he got to Babylon, they were opening the 1923 01:41:43.159 --> 01:41:46.760 door for him. They were excited to be liberated from 1924 01:41:46.800 --> 01:41:48.720 the Persians. By the time he got into Egypt, they 1925 01:41:48.760 --> 01:41:51.560 were excited to be liberated from the persons. Finally, somebody 1926 01:41:52.039 --> 01:41:57.000 who's suddenly examps, somebody's you know, winning those battles that 1927 01:41:57.119 --> 01:41:59.640 we can't fight anymore, and we're willing to join that. 1928 01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:03.560 So yeah, there's also in that way too. 1929 01:42:04.119 --> 01:42:06.680 I will I will just just to add on to that, 1930 01:42:06.760 --> 01:42:11.479 because I'm a big fan of history myself. The actual 1931 01:42:11.640 --> 01:42:15.760 story of the Persian King Xerxes is a lot more 1932 01:42:15.920 --> 01:42:17.920 like the things you're talking about than the way it's 1933 01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:25.279 been presented. Unfortunately, unfortunately Herodotus really skewed our our our 1934 01:42:25.439 --> 01:42:30.359 view of that. But the King Xerxes was insanely, insanely 1935 01:42:30.520 --> 01:42:32.720 cool in a lot of ways in a time and 1936 01:42:32.880 --> 01:42:37.039 place where everybody else was doing it, you know, completely different, 1937 01:42:37.199 --> 01:42:42.000 And there there's a reason why throughout human history, there 1938 01:42:42.079 --> 01:42:44.840 are just a handful of people that we really refer 1939 01:42:44.960 --> 01:42:49.439 to as really really great leaders, and we even give 1940 01:42:49.520 --> 01:42:50.760 them the title. 1941 01:42:50.520 --> 01:42:52.960 The Great right. A couple of them actually, funny enough, 1942 01:42:53.399 --> 01:42:55.399 come from Russia. How interesting is that? 1943 01:42:55.680 --> 01:42:59.760 Yeah, Alexander didn't earn his, but he was also on 1944 01:42:59.840 --> 01:43:04.560 her fifty years after Xerxes came in right, liberated much 1945 01:43:04.640 --> 01:43:07.000 of Breeze from the tribalisms. 1946 01:43:06.520 --> 01:43:10.960 Right right, right, right, It's super it's super interesting. And 1947 01:43:11.039 --> 01:43:11.760 I agree. 1948 01:43:11.840 --> 01:43:16.439 We find out that we find out that the narrative 1949 01:43:16.520 --> 01:43:19.359 that we've been told a lot of times, like for instance, 1950 01:43:19.560 --> 01:43:23.720 with the Cuban missile crisis and JFK, the story that 1951 01:43:23.840 --> 01:43:27.000 we're told on that is one where standing up and 1952 01:43:27.159 --> 01:43:30.439 telling other people what to do and pushing people around, 1953 01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:33.039 that's what that's what makes the day, that's what that's 1954 01:43:33.079 --> 01:43:34.039 what great leaders do. 1955 01:43:34.199 --> 01:43:38.800 But in reality, what JFK was actually doing, which right right, 1956 01:43:38.880 --> 01:43:39.680 what JFK. 1957 01:43:39.520 --> 01:43:43.159 Was actually doing was was was negotiating regularly through his 1958 01:43:43.520 --> 01:43:46.279 brother Robert, and and they they were talking. They were 1959 01:43:46.319 --> 01:43:49.640 having lots and lots of compromises and concessions. And you 1960 01:43:49.760 --> 01:43:53.039 know what, that's the story we needed told because that's 1961 01:43:53.119 --> 01:43:56.720 what a real leader does leading by example, leading. 1962 01:43:56.560 --> 01:44:00.439 From the front exactly. Thank you very much. It's great 1963 01:44:00.520 --> 01:44:03.439 to see you again. Uh, doctor Daryl Ray, I'm gonna 1964 01:44:03.479 --> 01:44:05.239 look into your content and. 1965 01:44:06.039 --> 01:44:06.840 Thank you for having me on. 1966 01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:09.479 Guys, you welcome, Thank you born. 1967 01:44:09.680 --> 01:44:11.520 And there is a lot of uh, there's a lot 1968 01:44:11.560 --> 01:44:13.760 of really really good stuff out there that you can 1969 01:44:13.800 --> 01:44:16.640 find with doctor Daryl Ray on it. So you will 1970 01:44:16.720 --> 01:44:18.680 have you will have a bunch of a bunch of 1971 01:44:18.760 --> 01:44:21.279 homework and I'm sure you're gonna enjoy every minute of it. 1972 01:44:21.359 --> 01:44:22.079 Man, thanks so much. 1973 01:44:22.079 --> 01:44:24.760 I'm gonna drop you real quick and uh, you know what, 1974 01:44:25.319 --> 01:44:28.600 no wrap up, no preamble, We're just going right into it. 1975 01:44:28.720 --> 01:44:31.279 We're gonna grab Michelle in New York. 1976 01:44:31.319 --> 01:44:34.239 She her pronouns is an agnostic and want some advice 1977 01:44:34.359 --> 01:44:38.000 on completely letting go of God again. Darryl, I think 1978 01:44:38.039 --> 01:44:42.680 this is your wheelhouse brother, soay, hey Michelle, you are 1979 01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:45.800 on the atheist experience with secularity and Darryl. 1980 01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:46.640 Ray, what is up? 1981 01:44:47.880 --> 01:44:48.159 Hello? 1982 01:44:49.079 --> 01:44:52.000 What example is a lot of things, And first I'd 1983 01:44:52.119 --> 01:44:56.960 like to thank my Cord Julius and can Vivio call 1984 01:44:57.079 --> 01:45:01.399 Screener for their wonderful help on the phone and getting 1985 01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:04.720 me ready and preparing me for the calls or called 1986 01:45:04.840 --> 01:45:09.439 que area where they were most gracious and wonderful, so 1987 01:45:09.760 --> 01:45:11.720 big thanks and shut it out to them even though 1988 01:45:11.760 --> 01:45:12.640 I didn't get their name. 1989 01:45:13.359 --> 01:45:15.279 Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, we do have a 1990 01:45:15.319 --> 01:45:17.760 bunch of wonderful, wonderful volunteers here. 1991 01:45:17.760 --> 01:45:20.279 So yeah, give us, give us some help us out 1992 01:45:20.359 --> 01:45:23.159 set the scene for us a little bit and tell 1993 01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:27.399 us kind of what maybe is still keeping you secularity. 1994 01:45:27.479 --> 01:45:29.800 You did mention, and I just for for sake of 1995 01:45:29.880 --> 01:45:30.279 the show. 1996 01:45:30.960 --> 01:45:34.439 You did mention that people can work for the show 1997 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:35.920 is called screeners and whatnot? 1998 01:45:36.319 --> 01:45:38.880 Can do that remote? Can they do that remotely? 1999 01:45:39.239 --> 01:45:39.479 Yeah? 2000 01:45:39.800 --> 01:45:40.119 I did. 2001 01:45:40.319 --> 01:45:41.159 I did for years. 2002 01:45:41.159 --> 01:45:44.279 I worked behind the scenes for a bunch of different 2003 01:45:44.319 --> 01:45:46.680 shows here at the ACA, and I have always been 2004 01:45:46.760 --> 01:45:51.039 in Tennessee. So absolutely, just email volunteer at Atheist dash 2005 01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:53.880 community dot org and someone will reach out to you 2006 01:45:54.039 --> 01:45:55.680 and and and start working with you. 2007 01:45:55.800 --> 01:45:56.000 Yeah. 2008 01:45:56.159 --> 01:45:58.720 Most of the people you see in the crew cam 2009 01:45:59.479 --> 01:46:02.279 are spread out, some some in different states, some in 2010 01:46:02.399 --> 01:46:03.159 different countries. 2011 01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:10.359 Wow, you guys, get around you doctor jail Ray secularity. 2012 01:46:10.840 --> 01:46:14.000 I'm switching off you and I'm going there tell Ray, 2013 01:46:14.079 --> 01:46:16.239 but I'd like because you inspire. 2014 01:46:15.840 --> 01:46:19.159 Me during the last couple of calls, and I got 2015 01:46:19.239 --> 01:46:21.840 some gold nuggets to show. I got some go boolli 2016 01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:23.319 in to share with you guys. 2017 01:46:23.439 --> 01:46:27.479 Heck yeah, I love it some in a psyche department. 2018 01:46:28.399 --> 01:46:29.279 Okay, go for it. 2019 01:46:30.399 --> 01:46:31.520 You are the doctor? 2020 01:46:31.680 --> 01:46:33.399 Are you not the doctor? 2021 01:46:34.199 --> 01:46:34.600 Right now? 2022 01:46:34.640 --> 01:46:37.359 You're the doctor, because I'm the only doctor I'm talking 2023 01:46:37.439 --> 01:46:37.560 to you. 2024 01:46:37.680 --> 01:46:38.279 You got to be the. 2025 01:46:38.399 --> 01:46:41.119 Doctor right well for now, I guess that's true. 2026 01:46:43.039 --> 01:46:45.560 And i'd say your doctorate, since I've seen you on 2027 01:46:45.720 --> 01:46:49.520 multiple occasions, i'd see your doctorate must be in a 2028 01:46:49.600 --> 01:46:52.560 little bit of everything, because you know a little bit 2029 01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:53.640 about everything. 2030 01:46:55.960 --> 01:46:58.399 Well, I'm seventy five years old. I've had a little 2031 01:46:58.439 --> 01:47:00.560 time just daddy, So that's problem been part of it. 2032 01:47:02.479 --> 01:47:05.159 Tell us, tell us about what your concern is. Tell 2033 01:47:05.239 --> 01:47:07.960 us about your concerned. 2034 01:47:08.600 --> 01:47:13.520 I started my deacon, I started in my deconstruction process 2035 01:47:13.720 --> 01:47:17.079 a long time ago, and I got start. 2036 01:47:17.159 --> 01:47:25.000 I got started in the fundamentalist Christian, Charismatic, Pentecostal Baptist. 2037 01:47:25.600 --> 01:47:30.039 My former my former men spiritual mentor who broke my 2038 01:47:30.159 --> 01:47:34.399 heart personally in several different ways because he turned out 2039 01:47:34.520 --> 01:47:37.439 that he became a not a nice gentleman in. 2040 01:47:37.479 --> 01:47:40.000 His later middle in later years, let's. 2041 01:47:39.760 --> 01:47:47.039 Say, really just kind of got me down this deconstruction path. 2042 01:47:48.399 --> 01:47:51.680 And I said, God, I mean there's a song to God. 2043 01:47:51.800 --> 01:47:54.439 I said, you know, I mean he put me in 2044 01:47:54.560 --> 01:47:57.159 his wife and he said he was gonna bring me 2045 01:47:57.279 --> 01:47:58.000 up in his. 2046 01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:01.920 Church in his department, and and I would. 2047 01:48:01.800 --> 01:48:04.319 Follow after him. And that didn't happen. 2048 01:48:04.840 --> 01:48:06.079 Was that you or him? 2049 01:48:07.199 --> 01:48:07.239 Like? 2050 01:48:07.960 --> 01:48:08.119 Was that? 2051 01:48:08.560 --> 01:48:09.239 Did I miss it? 2052 01:48:09.359 --> 01:48:12.720 I thought I heard from you? Like, so then I'm 2053 01:48:12.760 --> 01:48:15.079 like thinking that I'm get to reading about this stuff. 2054 01:48:15.479 --> 01:48:20.680 And now some people believe, like Carol Yung and Freud 2055 01:48:20.840 --> 01:48:25.039 believes that God like was just an archetypical thing in 2056 01:48:25.119 --> 01:48:28.000 your psyche, and that when you were hearing from God, 2057 01:48:28.520 --> 01:48:30.800 you were simply hearing from a part of your own 2058 01:48:31.279 --> 01:48:36.600 psyche and your own awareness and your own cognitiocence and consciousness, 2059 01:48:36.680 --> 01:48:39.359 if you will. And I'm sure you know that very well. 2060 01:48:39.359 --> 01:48:40.800 All about that, doctor. 2061 01:48:40.520 --> 01:48:45.199 Ray so like and even now on the phone listening 2062 01:48:45.279 --> 01:48:49.119 to you guys speak, I'm like, I can, Okay, Well, 2063 01:48:49.680 --> 01:48:53.279 I had I had this love affair with a beautiful woman. 2064 01:48:53.600 --> 01:48:55.039 And I don't mean like she was married. 2065 01:48:55.079 --> 01:48:56.680 I mean it was just a big love to do, 2066 01:48:57.000 --> 01:49:01.680 like an affair like a fair and I carried the 2067 01:49:01.800 --> 01:49:04.239 torch and the candle for her for. 2068 01:49:04.399 --> 01:49:08.680 About twenty years, and then it was just eating me 2069 01:49:08.800 --> 01:49:09.720 alive inside. 2070 01:49:10.880 --> 01:49:13.720 And I said, I have to do something about this, 2071 01:49:14.039 --> 01:49:16.319 otherwise I won't have any more so I won't have 2072 01:49:16.439 --> 01:49:18.199 any successful relationships. 2073 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:21.000 And I said, I choose out loud. 2074 01:49:21.079 --> 01:49:26.680 I said, I choose not to love her any more. 2075 01:49:27.479 --> 01:49:31.279 I choose not to love her anymore. 2076 01:49:31.720 --> 01:49:34.399 And then I called that. I called her out by need. 2077 01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:39.640 And then initially immediately I felt that wave of ease 2078 01:49:39.920 --> 01:49:40.600 come over me. 2079 01:49:41.119 --> 01:49:43.119 And I was like, I don't love her anymore. 2080 01:49:44.079 --> 01:49:44.760 Good was good? 2081 01:49:44.920 --> 01:49:45.319 And then. 2082 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:49.119 Are you are you let me let me? I know 2083 01:49:49.239 --> 01:49:51.199 we've gotten short on time, so I don't want to 2084 01:49:51.439 --> 01:49:54.039 short you. I want to understand, but I also want 2085 01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:55.279 to make sure we keep going. 2086 01:49:55.319 --> 01:49:55.439 Here. 2087 01:49:56.239 --> 01:49:59.680 Are you making the parallel with letting go of God 2088 01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:01.920 the same as letting go of this woman? 2089 01:50:03.199 --> 01:50:07.359 Yes, you got okay, right that doctor right okay? And 2090 01:50:07.479 --> 01:50:08.479 then MiG we knew you would. 2091 01:50:09.359 --> 01:50:12.520 So you are you are saying I was able to 2092 01:50:12.640 --> 01:50:14.439 let go of this woman, but I can't seem to 2093 01:50:14.520 --> 01:50:16.159 let go of God. Is that what you're saying? 2094 01:50:17.640 --> 01:50:21.840 Well, during the conversation that you two were having with 2095 01:50:21.960 --> 01:50:25.079 the gentleman and the young lady with her husband and 2096 01:50:25.520 --> 01:50:29.800 they're living their the construction. I was thinking, maybe I 2097 01:50:29.920 --> 01:50:32.159 need and it never dawned on me, and I said, 2098 01:50:32.319 --> 01:50:35.600 maybe I need to do the same thing with God. 2099 01:50:36.600 --> 01:50:39.640 Maybe that there you go, there you go. So let 2100 01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:42.119 me let me throw out some let me throw out 2101 01:50:42.119 --> 01:50:46.119 some ideas here because I'm really interested. I'm one of 2102 01:50:46.199 --> 01:50:51.199 my biggest interest is how religion impacts our brain. And 2103 01:50:51.319 --> 01:50:53.800 I mentioned in that previous call, which may have been 2104 01:50:53.840 --> 01:50:57.840 what what motivated you a little bit, is that our 2105 01:50:57.920 --> 01:51:02.840 attachment systems are active, and our attachment systems are activated 2106 01:51:03.520 --> 01:51:07.640 to attached to children and to our partners, our spouses 2107 01:51:07.680 --> 01:51:10.720 and such. And that is an appropriate use of the 2108 01:51:10.800 --> 01:51:15.800 attachment system. As humans, attachments really really important to us. 2109 01:51:15.840 --> 01:51:19.680 As we thrive with attachment, we don't thrive without it 2110 01:51:19.720 --> 01:51:24.399 as nearly as much so what you but the problem 2111 01:51:24.560 --> 01:51:28.159 is with religion is religion gets our brains to attach 2112 01:51:28.279 --> 01:51:32.319 to our invisible friend, God in this case, and once 2113 01:51:32.359 --> 01:51:38.119 you're attached to that, detaching is painful and it's difficult. 2114 01:51:38.359 --> 01:51:41.439 Just like you found with the woman. You were attached 2115 01:51:41.479 --> 01:51:45.439 to that woman, but detaching caused pain and it took 2116 01:51:45.520 --> 01:51:46.319 you a long time. 2117 01:51:51.920 --> 01:51:55.479 I can tell you, I can tell you what I 2118 01:51:55.640 --> 01:51:57.439 love for God that I still love her, and I'll 2119 01:51:57.479 --> 01:52:00.119 tell you why. I tell you why, Doctor Ray. I 2120 01:52:00.199 --> 01:52:03.720 felt there's tears. I felt they're slow dripping tears fall 2121 01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:06.079 on my bear chest, Doctor Ray. 2122 01:52:06.800 --> 01:52:07.399 Each one of. 2123 01:52:07.439 --> 01:52:10.960 Those tears I could still fill them now like nails 2124 01:52:11.039 --> 01:52:15.439 and my chest like morvel blades and my chest, Doctor Ray, 2125 01:52:15.680 --> 01:52:17.279 the words will still. 2126 01:52:19.800 --> 01:52:24.000 That's the wound of attachment. And I'm I'm totally feel you. 2127 01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:27.479 I understand, and I'm sorry to see you still suffering 2128 01:52:28.239 --> 01:52:32.239 because it's not easy to detach from a living human being. 2129 01:52:33.399 --> 01:52:35.920 I'm so glad you're married, doctor Ray. And how a 2130 01:52:36.039 --> 01:52:36.840 happy marriage? 2131 01:52:36.840 --> 01:52:40.560 I really am, I mean, and I needed that thought 2132 01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:41.000 just now. 2133 01:52:41.039 --> 01:52:43.880 I'm like, well, doctor Ray, is a happy marriage? Maybe 2134 01:52:44.039 --> 01:52:45.359 one day I should. 2135 01:52:45.199 --> 01:52:48.000 And so one only I could get over this pod. 2136 01:52:49.680 --> 01:52:55.479 It's sometimes it's really difficult, and I will uh no, 2137 01:52:55.560 --> 01:53:01.920 I'm sorry, glad. Yeah, it's it's difficult to to detach. 2138 01:53:02.960 --> 01:53:06.119 It's very easy to attach. Our brains and our bodies 2139 01:53:06.239 --> 01:53:10.000 are made to attach. We've got a great attachment system 2140 01:53:10.079 --> 01:53:13.119 going on, but our brains and bodies are not designed 2141 01:53:13.159 --> 01:53:16.159 to detach. And that's what I hear you suffering with 2142 01:53:16.399 --> 01:53:19.760 is how do I detach from this the memory because 2143 01:53:19.800 --> 01:53:22.399 you're no longer involved with this person, but yet the 2144 01:53:22.479 --> 01:53:25.800 memory still is attached, if you will in some ways. 2145 01:53:26.079 --> 01:53:29.479 Let me throw this suggestion out here. You're not involved 2146 01:53:29.520 --> 01:53:31.039 with this woman anymore, am I correct? 2147 01:53:32.279 --> 01:53:32.319 No? 2148 01:53:32.760 --> 01:53:34.640 I mean that's all too a couple of times, handful 2149 01:53:34.680 --> 01:53:35.720 of time over the years. 2150 01:53:36.720 --> 01:53:41.239 Okay, So think about this. She is an invisible being, 2151 01:53:43.239 --> 01:53:46.840 just like God is an invisible being. Yet you're still 2152 01:53:46.880 --> 01:53:49.640 attached to the invisible being that you no longer have 2153 01:53:49.800 --> 01:53:56.600 a physical relationship with. Yeah, that makes sense. You are 2154 01:53:56.800 --> 01:54:01.279 carrying the invisible being of this woman, and you're carrying 2155 01:54:01.279 --> 01:54:04.920 the invisible being of God, and both you feel the 2156 01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:08.359 attachment for and cannot and are having difficulty. I would 2157 01:54:08.399 --> 01:54:12.640 say this, call or go to the Secular Therapy Project 2158 01:54:12.800 --> 01:54:16.880 dot org and find a good therapist. We've got therapists, 2159 01:54:17.359 --> 01:54:19.960 did I hear hear from New York? Yeah? We got 2160 01:54:20.279 --> 01:54:22.880 We probably got sixty or seventy therapists in New York, 2161 01:54:23.680 --> 01:54:25.359 in New York City and in the state. 2162 01:54:25.479 --> 01:54:27.960 And I can't afford a doctor. I can't afford you 2163 01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:29.760 that kind of therapy. I've already looked into it. 2164 01:54:31.479 --> 01:54:35.319 Okay, how much can you afford to suffer? How many 2165 01:54:35.399 --> 01:54:36.560 more years do you want to suffer? 2166 01:54:39.159 --> 01:54:41.640 I'd be a sad question to answered, doctor A, because 2167 01:54:41.640 --> 01:54:44.760 I'm afraid you might already know what what with you 2168 01:54:44.920 --> 01:54:47.279 guess an idea writer and a poet and an artist. 2169 01:54:47.399 --> 01:54:49.760 By now, I mean you must offering for. 2170 01:54:49.920 --> 01:54:50.319 Me, are. 2171 01:54:52.720 --> 01:54:57.039 Well without myst offering when people say, when people say 2172 01:54:57.119 --> 01:55:00.680 they can't afford to get help, that's why it's your 2173 01:55:00.760 --> 01:55:05.159 pocket book. But do remember you're you've already suffered for 2174 01:55:05.319 --> 01:55:08.399 years over this. What is suffering worth? Right? 2175 01:55:09.800 --> 01:55:12.119 I don't know, doctor Ray. And that's the other sort 2176 01:55:12.119 --> 01:55:14.920 of the coin. But here's here's the thing. I think 2177 01:55:14.960 --> 01:55:16.119 I can help a lot of people. 2178 01:55:16.680 --> 01:55:18.079 I think I can help a lot of people with 2179 01:55:18.159 --> 01:55:21.600 saying this one thing that I reverberated back into my 2180 01:55:21.760 --> 01:55:24.560 consciousness when I said, why can't I do the same 2181 01:55:24.600 --> 01:55:26.199 thing with God? If I could do it with her? 2182 01:55:26.560 --> 01:55:28.239 And even now when I do it with her, because 2183 01:55:28.279 --> 01:55:31.600 I have to make sometimes even a daily practice of it. 2184 01:55:31.720 --> 01:55:34.840 Sometimes now that May, especially now that May is coming 2185 01:55:34.960 --> 01:55:37.199 up in spring, because it was a spring May low. 2186 01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:38.079 So. 2187 01:55:39.640 --> 01:55:42.279 You know, and I said, I choose not to believe 2188 01:55:42.720 --> 01:55:43.720 in God anymore. 2189 01:55:45.000 --> 01:55:48.239 And I'm like, I could do that. I choose not 2190 01:55:48.319 --> 01:55:49.279 to believe in God anymore. 2191 01:55:49.800 --> 01:55:53.319 I could do that, and I choose not to believe 2192 01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:59.399 in you, God anymore. I choose not to believe in 2193 01:55:59.520 --> 01:56:03.399 you any little anymore. And then I heard a small 2194 01:56:03.520 --> 01:56:07.079 voice inside me say, I choose not to believe in 2195 01:56:07.319 --> 01:56:11.680 me or myself anymore. And then it just ultimately leaves 2196 01:56:11.680 --> 01:56:15.079 me at the thought that my the archetype inside my head, 2197 01:56:15.560 --> 01:56:16.159 I am God. 2198 01:56:16.760 --> 01:56:17.520 God is dead. 2199 01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:20.720 Therefore God is dead. 2200 01:56:20.960 --> 01:56:24.000 Or he never existed to begin with, who knows? That's 2201 01:56:24.039 --> 01:56:24.960 fine and agnostic. 2202 01:56:25.960 --> 01:56:30.159 Yeah, I'll I'll say one one thing here to wrap 2203 01:56:30.319 --> 01:56:34.359 up this call Michelle, that I I definitely didn't come 2204 01:56:34.439 --> 01:56:36.800 up with this thought. And I remember when I was 2205 01:56:37.600 --> 01:56:40.840 going through a deconstruction phase many years ago, and I 2206 01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:44.880 heard somebody say this probably on the atheist experience, to 2207 01:56:44.920 --> 01:56:49.600 be honest, But there's all there's these moments in our lives, 2208 01:56:49.800 --> 01:56:53.319 especially when we're religious, where we tell ourselves, I can't 2209 01:56:53.439 --> 01:56:58.880 do it, I'm not capable. If only if only God 2210 01:56:58.960 --> 01:57:03.279 were here, if only Jesus would would lift this burden 2211 01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:07.560 off of me, or this religious mindset would would help 2212 01:57:07.680 --> 01:57:10.079 calm me down and then funny enough, we find. 2213 01:57:10.720 --> 01:57:13.079 That we can do the thing right. 2214 01:57:13.239 --> 01:57:17.760 We are able to get through whatever the difficult time is. 2215 01:57:18.800 --> 01:57:23.159 And at that moment when we're when our minds are 2216 01:57:23.239 --> 01:57:27.039 still so locked in this religion, we tell ourselves there's 2217 01:57:27.119 --> 01:57:28.760 no way we could have done it had it not 2218 01:57:28.960 --> 01:57:32.359 been for the beauty and majesty and power of God 2219 01:57:32.560 --> 01:57:35.439 or his son Jesus Christ. But one of the coolest 2220 01:57:35.520 --> 01:57:39.880 fucking things I realized after stepping away from religion, it 2221 01:57:40.039 --> 01:57:40.760 was always me. 2222 01:57:41.680 --> 01:57:43.239 It's always been you, Michelle. 2223 01:57:43.800 --> 01:57:46.960 That stuff has never been there, and you're the reason 2224 01:57:47.039 --> 01:57:50.399 that you have made it through every hardship in your life, 2225 01:57:50.760 --> 01:57:53.119 and you're gonna be the reason that you make it 2226 01:57:53.159 --> 01:57:57.279 through the next one. No God, no supernatural, no aliens, no, 2227 01:57:57.479 --> 01:58:01.079 none of that shit. It's you and that that is 2228 01:58:01.159 --> 01:58:04.680 fricking power. And I will I will absolutely echo doctor 2229 01:58:04.760 --> 01:58:07.640 Daryl Ray and saying, you know, if you can, please 2230 01:58:08.039 --> 01:58:11.479 reach out to the Secular Therapy Project Recovering from religion. 2231 01:58:12.000 --> 01:58:15.239 It's free to call in to the to the helpline there, 2232 01:58:15.359 --> 01:58:16.920 and they have some trained people there. 2233 01:58:16.960 --> 01:58:19.520 They're not therapists. It's not the same as secular therapy. 2234 01:58:19.680 --> 01:58:23.079 So definitely secular therapy project is going to be super 2235 01:58:23.159 --> 01:58:27.279 helpful for those deeper and longer term things. But remember, Michelle, 2236 01:58:27.359 --> 01:58:29.560 and I know I've talked with you before, and I 2237 01:58:29.640 --> 01:58:32.119 know you've called in a bunch, and just remember this 2238 01:58:32.319 --> 01:58:35.039 is your community, just like Harah, and we want to 2239 01:58:35.079 --> 01:58:37.359 hear some updates. We want to know how things are going. 2240 01:58:37.479 --> 01:58:40.000 And you've got a bunch of love coming for you 2241 01:58:40.119 --> 01:58:43.600 in the chat. And again remember you too could could 2242 01:58:43.640 --> 01:58:45.880 be a volunteer if you wanted. That's how I started. 2243 01:58:46.039 --> 01:58:48.600 Just some idiot in the chat and I reached out 2244 01:58:48.680 --> 01:58:52.199 and they said, well, well I guess you'll work, and uh, 2245 01:58:52.279 --> 01:58:52.920 and here we are. 2246 01:58:54.159 --> 01:58:57.119 But thank you, thank you so much, Michelle. 2247 01:58:57.199 --> 01:58:58.920 I'm so sorry that I'm gonna have to drop you 2248 01:58:59.000 --> 01:59:02.279 real quick, but I really really do appreciate you calling 2249 01:59:02.359 --> 01:59:03.760 in and I hope. 2250 01:59:03.640 --> 01:59:04.640 We get some updates soon. 2251 01:59:04.920 --> 01:59:08.880 So that is always an awesome, awesome opportunity for us 2252 01:59:09.039 --> 01:59:12.520 to just connect with our people and just share in 2253 01:59:12.600 --> 01:59:13.840 some of those difficult times. 2254 01:59:13.920 --> 01:59:15.840 You know that that's what a community's for. It's not 2255 01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:17.439 just for the good times and the parties. 2256 01:59:17.880 --> 01:59:21.199 It's for when our house falls down or when we're having, 2257 01:59:21.399 --> 01:59:23.319 you know, some some difficult weeks. 2258 01:59:23.119 --> 01:59:28.119 So let's raw, raw men, raw men. Indeed, yes, yes, 2259 01:59:28.319 --> 01:59:30.159 on this holiest of days. 2260 01:59:30.359 --> 01:59:32.760 Let me read a couple of these awesome super chats. 2261 01:59:32.800 --> 01:59:35.720 We got four ninety nine coming in from Clash two 2262 01:59:35.920 --> 01:59:39.079 three four seven, been a member for one year, saying 2263 01:59:39.279 --> 01:59:42.920 doctor Ray spitting facts on parents loving religion more than 2264 01:59:42.960 --> 01:59:46.640 their children. I'm in a very similar situation. Yeah, I 2265 01:59:46.720 --> 01:59:48.800 get that clash. I know a lot of people like 2266 01:59:48.880 --> 01:59:51.039 that as well too. And that was I love that 2267 01:59:51.239 --> 01:59:53.600 line so much. The parents love the religion more than 2268 01:59:53.600 --> 01:59:54.520 they love their children. 2269 01:59:54.600 --> 01:59:55.560 Ooh ooh. 2270 01:59:56.600 --> 01:59:59.840 We got one ninety nine coming in from the awesome 2271 02:00:00.159 --> 02:00:03.319 l Tree fitty six sixty six saying, hey, hey, happy 2272 02:00:03.560 --> 02:00:07.880 zombie Jesus Day. That's right, folks, Happy zombie Jesus Day. 2273 02:00:08.000 --> 02:00:11.359 Eat your crackers if you want, or your chocolate. And 2274 02:00:11.439 --> 02:00:13.399 then we got one more. We got five dollars coming 2275 02:00:13.439 --> 02:00:16.960 in from a member for one years. I am m 2276 02:00:17.119 --> 02:00:20.359 four c There's something there that I'm not getting. There 2277 02:00:20.479 --> 02:00:23.800 is something here that I'm not seeing, So I'm very sorry. 2278 02:00:23.840 --> 02:00:26.159 I probably butchered to Dave. It's probably very smart and 2279 02:00:26.239 --> 02:00:28.439 it is just over my head. But they say, fan 2280 02:00:28.560 --> 02:00:30.720 of the show, can you mention where to get the 2281 02:00:30.800 --> 02:00:33.880 flyers to invite believers to call in. Yeah, there might 2282 02:00:33.920 --> 02:00:36.640 actually be some watchers out there that don't know that 2283 02:00:36.800 --> 02:00:39.199 these exist, and here they are on screen right now, 2284 02:00:39.920 --> 02:00:42.640 And the easiest way to do that is just go 2285 02:00:42.880 --> 02:00:46.119 to atheistiphencommunity dot org. You go right to the website 2286 02:00:46.159 --> 02:00:48.279 and then you can find that downloadable flyer and you 2287 02:00:48.319 --> 02:00:51.800 can post it up anywhere that is allowed to. Okay, guys, 2288 02:00:51.880 --> 02:00:56.319 don't just start being an asshole and just posting this everywhere, like, actually, 2289 02:00:56.399 --> 02:00:58.560 make sure you get permission from the places that. 2290 02:00:58.640 --> 02:00:59.600 You're gonna do this for. 2291 02:01:00.520 --> 02:01:02.479 But yeah, otherwise, I mean, other than that, go go 2292 02:01:02.760 --> 02:01:04.920 go crazy, guys, go print out, you know, ship tons 2293 02:01:04.920 --> 02:01:06.920 of them and get some people to call in. 2294 02:01:07.640 --> 02:01:10.359 And speaking of calls, we had. 2295 02:01:10.800 --> 02:01:12.680 We had a really cool call right at the beginning 2296 02:01:12.760 --> 02:01:16.159 that myself and our wonderful backup host Sophia got to 2297 02:01:16.279 --> 02:01:16.840 take part in. 2298 02:01:16.960 --> 02:01:18.159 Hey here you are again? 2299 02:01:18.600 --> 02:01:19.800 Hello can you hear? 2300 02:01:21.279 --> 02:01:22.600 So good to have you back on? 2301 02:01:22.880 --> 02:01:24.560 Yeah, what what did you think? Give us? Give us 2302 02:01:24.600 --> 02:01:25.800 some thoughts for the show today. 2303 02:01:26.119 --> 02:01:30.560 I really love watching you doctor ray do so you know, 2304 02:01:30.600 --> 02:01:32.239 I also work on mental health and I was just 2305 02:01:32.520 --> 02:01:34.359 you know, Elliott's messaging, Oh do you want to jump 2306 02:01:34.399 --> 02:01:36.039 in on this call, and I'm like, no, I'm just 2307 02:01:36.439 --> 02:01:37.399 listening and learning. 2308 02:01:37.600 --> 02:01:38.640 This is so good. 2309 02:01:39.319 --> 02:01:40.079 So thank you. 2310 02:01:41.039 --> 02:01:43.199 Uh, that was very very cool to get to see. 2311 02:01:43.319 --> 02:01:45.159 So yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of 2312 02:01:45.199 --> 02:01:50.199 folks are struggling more or less in isolation. They don't 2313 02:01:50.359 --> 02:01:53.159 necessarily realize there's other people who are going through the 2314 02:01:53.239 --> 02:01:56.119 same kind of not just deconstruction process, but the same 2315 02:01:56.279 --> 02:01:59.319 challenges with family, because I think a lot of the time, 2316 02:01:59.359 --> 02:02:01.600 particularly if or from a family that's never made like 2317 02:02:01.720 --> 02:02:05.880 a big deal about religion, it's not expected that they'll 2318 02:02:05.960 --> 02:02:08.600 respond as negatively as they as they end up doing. 2319 02:02:09.079 --> 02:02:11.960 If they if feud convert, you know, it's thought like, oh, well, 2320 02:02:12.000 --> 02:02:14.560 we weren't that into it anyway, or you know, whatever 2321 02:02:14.640 --> 02:02:17.800 that might be, and then it becomes a huge deal 2322 02:02:18.000 --> 02:02:22.359 and it can become so contentious. It feels like you 2323 02:02:22.439 --> 02:02:24.680 get these tests when you know, I know I'm not 2324 02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:26.760 the first one to say this, but when you're leaving religion, 2325 02:02:26.880 --> 02:02:29.880 suddenly you need to know every answer and have the perfect, 2326 02:02:30.319 --> 02:02:33.800 you know, reason to leave when just staying feels so easy, 2327 02:02:34.119 --> 02:02:37.319 or like you could just you know, not tell anybody 2328 02:02:37.520 --> 02:02:40.119 or stay incognito about it. Or people ask why you 2329 02:02:40.199 --> 02:02:41.680 have to make such a big deal about it when 2330 02:02:41.720 --> 02:02:43.640 really it's just you sharing your lived experience. 2331 02:02:43.800 --> 02:02:48.399 Now, yeah, definitely, and it is. 2332 02:02:48.560 --> 02:02:51.520 It's it's it is one of the biggest things that 2333 02:02:51.640 --> 02:02:55.479 we deal with in this space, and it is honestly, 2334 02:02:56.079 --> 02:03:00.520 it is connected to I think at least there is 2335 02:03:00.560 --> 02:03:03.119 a through line from that to the connection when it 2336 02:03:03.199 --> 02:03:06.199 comes to struggles that we have found in our space 2337 02:03:06.800 --> 02:03:12.279 building ritual and building communities and organizations. Because the moment 2338 02:03:12.399 --> 02:03:15.279 you start passing a plate around at an atheist gathering, 2339 02:03:15.680 --> 02:03:18.840 everybody says it's like tithing. You know, the moment you 2340 02:03:19.199 --> 02:03:22.000 the moment you just ask everybody to stand up and 2341 02:03:22.560 --> 02:03:24.840 just join in singing a song, even though it's it's 2342 02:03:24.960 --> 02:03:26.239 it's fricking you know. 2343 02:03:26.520 --> 02:03:28.920 Send me on my way, you know, that's silly. 2344 02:03:28.960 --> 02:03:31.399 Little like you get somebody, you get them to stand up, 2345 02:03:31.439 --> 02:03:33.479 they go, ah, this is seals too churchy, you know. 2346 02:03:33.640 --> 02:03:36.720 And I get it that trauma is is huge. That 2347 02:03:36.920 --> 02:03:40.359 affects all of us in so so many ways. But 2348 02:03:40.560 --> 02:03:44.359 that's why the secular therapy project and recovering. 2349 02:03:44.039 --> 02:03:47.199 From religion exists, y'all. That's what we got this souff for. 2350 02:03:47.520 --> 02:03:51.159 Let's utilize the avenues and the resources already in our 2351 02:03:51.239 --> 02:03:52.279 awesome communities. 2352 02:03:52.359 --> 02:03:56.800 You know, we have a we have a little thought 2353 02:03:57.119 --> 02:03:59.680 thought experiment we asked people to do when with these 2354 02:03:59.760 --> 02:04:01.680 kind of issues come up, and that is we tell 2355 02:04:01.760 --> 02:04:06.079 people that your brain has neural pathways, and those neural 2356 02:04:06.159 --> 02:04:09.039 pathways are built over time, over and over and over 2357 02:04:09.039 --> 02:04:12.239 again until you just do them automatically. Like you know, 2358 02:04:12.279 --> 02:04:15.199 I know how to drive my car automatically. I didn't 2359 02:04:15.399 --> 02:04:17.920 know that when I was fifteen years old, but I 2360 02:04:18.039 --> 02:04:22.720 do now. So the neural pathways are really solid. Unfortunately, 2361 02:04:22.960 --> 02:04:26.520 the brain can create neural pathways that are bad for you, 2362 02:04:27.239 --> 02:04:34.239 like religious ideas, and when those religious things get stimulated 2363 02:04:34.319 --> 02:04:37.119 in your brain, then the brain automatically goes down that 2364 02:04:37.319 --> 02:04:42.039 pathway and you don't realize you're halfway down the pathway 2365 02:04:42.119 --> 02:04:46.520 of being triggered by a song you heard on the radio, 2366 02:04:46.640 --> 02:04:49.880 religious song, or your parents call you up and say 2367 02:04:49.960 --> 02:04:52.479 Happy Easter and you want to yell at them or whatever. 2368 02:04:54.119 --> 02:04:57.800 But it's so. What we try to teach people, even 2369 02:04:57.880 --> 02:05:02.439 in a non therapeutic environment is challenge those pathways and 2370 02:05:02.600 --> 02:05:07.880 redirect the pathways and just keep practicing. When I hear 2371 02:05:08.199 --> 02:05:11.560 that song I'm going to not let that go any farther. 2372 02:05:11.600 --> 02:05:14.000 I'm going to turn I'm going to do another pathway 2373 02:05:14.079 --> 02:05:16.920 to it. That's my old life. I'm now living a 2374 02:05:17.000 --> 02:05:20.760 new life that is actually creating a new pathway. And 2375 02:05:20.840 --> 02:05:23.560 there's other things you can do, of course, but I 2376 02:05:23.680 --> 02:05:27.800 think the neurological pathways thing is really helpful for many 2377 02:05:27.920 --> 02:05:32.159 people once they realize that they they're in control of 2378 02:05:32.199 --> 02:05:35.399 those pathways. It doesn't feel like you are, but once 2379 02:05:35.439 --> 02:05:37.800 you realize, oh, that's just one of those pathways I 2380 02:05:37.840 --> 02:05:40.159 got when I still was in church, I'm going to 2381 02:05:40.239 --> 02:05:42.640 change that. You take a little control over your own 2382 02:05:42.680 --> 02:05:43.239 life that way. 2383 02:05:43.680 --> 02:05:46.760 I love that, and I think that that is the 2384 02:05:47.000 --> 02:05:52.560 perfect segue into you telling everybody one more time what 2385 02:05:52.760 --> 02:05:57.159 this awesome new initiative you have started, and why this 2386 02:05:57.359 --> 02:05:59.960 is so valuable, and just how everybody can go out 2387 02:06:00.039 --> 02:06:03.319 out there and either take the class themselves or help 2388 02:06:03.439 --> 02:06:04.800 support this cause. 2389 02:06:04.640 --> 02:06:06.920 So that we can build the next generation of leaders. 2390 02:06:07.840 --> 02:06:10.600 Just go to Secular Leadership dot org. You'll see all 2391 02:06:10.680 --> 02:06:13.800 the stuff about the course and why we're trying to 2392 02:06:13.880 --> 02:06:18.840 do it. My goal is to My goal is to 2393 02:06:19.079 --> 02:06:22.399 train one thousand leaders in the next ten years, and 2394 02:06:22.520 --> 02:06:24.399 that is going to be hard, but we're going to 2395 02:06:24.439 --> 02:06:27.159 get it done. And we've already got several people right 2396 02:06:27.199 --> 02:06:29.079 in there helping us. I'm going to train people and 2397 02:06:29.199 --> 02:06:31.840 how to train this stuff. I will stay in charge. 2398 02:06:32.600 --> 02:06:34.199 I think it's going to take us about three years 2399 02:06:34.239 --> 02:06:36.840 to get there. But here's the deal. Every church on 2400 02:06:37.880 --> 02:06:40.800 every church. You can go down the street in my 2401 02:06:40.920 --> 02:06:44.359 house and find twelve churches within a mile of my house, 2402 02:06:44.840 --> 02:06:46.840 and every one of those churches has some kind of 2403 02:06:46.880 --> 02:06:49.840 a leadership program. All I'm trying to do, and all 2404 02:06:49.920 --> 02:06:52.000 we're trying to do is not just Darrel, It's a 2405 02:06:52.039 --> 02:06:55.119 whole group of people. We're trying to say, Look, we 2406 02:06:55.239 --> 02:06:57.640 got to get out there and teach leadership just like 2407 02:06:57.840 --> 02:07:02.960 churches do. Only leadership is based on true, evidence based 2408 02:07:03.399 --> 02:07:10.079 secular practices that are best practices. That's and it's important 2409 02:07:10.199 --> 02:07:13.279 because we want to grow. And I have been so frustrated. 2410 02:07:13.800 --> 02:07:16.560 I've been involved in the sector secutor of movement for 2411 02:07:16.680 --> 02:07:19.880 twenty years, and I'm frustrated because we are not growing 2412 02:07:19.960 --> 02:07:22.760 as much as we could be. We've got lots of 2413 02:07:22.840 --> 02:07:25.319 people out there that are dying to get good leadership, 2414 02:07:25.680 --> 02:07:28.439 and they will follow good leadership if we just provide 2415 02:07:28.520 --> 02:07:29.119 that for them. 2416 02:07:29.239 --> 02:07:32.199 So yeah, and if you're a really girl, you can 2417 02:07:32.399 --> 02:07:35.399 do it also, unlike in a church where. 2418 02:07:35.560 --> 02:07:36.720 I'm ever allowed. 2419 02:07:37.479 --> 02:07:39.159 So yeah, absolutely. 2420 02:07:39.640 --> 02:07:41.560 I was told I could be a deaconess and I said, well, 2421 02:07:41.600 --> 02:07:43.119 what does that mean? What do they do? And they're like, well, 2422 02:07:43.119 --> 02:07:45.840 they organized fellowship. I'm like, they make the cookies that 2423 02:07:45.960 --> 02:07:48.880 they make for your day, that's what I'm allowed to do. 2424 02:07:49.439 --> 02:07:50.319 Cool things. 2425 02:07:50.880 --> 02:07:53.600 Well, half of our class was female, half was male, 2426 02:07:53.880 --> 02:07:55.239 and that's the way we like it. 2427 02:07:55.640 --> 02:07:55.960 There you go. 2428 02:07:56.520 --> 02:07:59.279 Yeah, I think there's a real difference in the way 2429 02:07:59.359 --> 02:08:04.520 males and typically lead, but both are effective. But we 2430 02:08:04.680 --> 02:08:08.520 still there's still best practices regardless of what you're you're 2431 02:08:08.800 --> 02:08:12.960 you claim, you claim or you ask propose in terms 2432 02:08:13.000 --> 02:08:13.880 of gender or whatever. 2433 02:08:14.399 --> 02:08:17.479 We and these again, like you're saying, these are things 2434 02:08:17.600 --> 02:08:21.760 that yes, have been utilized in a religious or or 2435 02:08:21.760 --> 02:08:24.439 a church space for a long time, but not because 2436 02:08:24.479 --> 02:08:27.239 they have a damn thing to do with religion or 2437 02:08:27.279 --> 02:08:32.720 the supernatural. It's because they are effective practices that work 2438 02:08:32.800 --> 02:08:36.000 when it comes to leading people and getting results, and 2439 02:08:36.199 --> 02:08:38.720 that is what we need in this space. So I 2440 02:08:39.039 --> 02:08:42.840 am just I am super duper thrilled because Darryl I 2441 02:08:43.199 --> 02:08:44.960 was really happy to be on here with you and 2442 02:08:45.199 --> 02:08:47.039 help get this out there to people. I was so 2443 02:08:47.199 --> 02:08:50.239 excited to be a part of the first cohort, and 2444 02:08:50.479 --> 02:08:52.960 again I am going to be coming back for the 2445 02:08:53.039 --> 02:08:56.640 next round because I genuinely believe in this cause. And 2446 02:08:56.720 --> 02:08:58.680 I hope a bunch of you wonderful people out there 2447 02:08:59.039 --> 02:09:02.239 hanging with us, whether it's TikTok or YouTube's or you're 2448 02:09:02.279 --> 02:09:05.159 seeing clips of this on Twitter or Reddit or whatever 2449 02:09:05.239 --> 02:09:07.319 the kids are doing these days, I sure as fuck 2450 02:09:07.359 --> 02:09:10.840 don't know, but thank you all so much for hanging 2451 02:09:10.880 --> 02:09:13.319 out with us. Please go check out the Secular Leadership 2452 02:09:13.359 --> 02:09:16.439 dot org. Please go check out Recovering from Religion and 2453 02:09:16.479 --> 02:09:18.560 Secular Therapy Project, And don't forget that there are a 2454 02:09:18.600 --> 02:09:20.680 thousand frickin ways that you can get involved in this 2455 02:09:20.920 --> 02:09:24.600 wonderful community right here at the Atheist Community of Austin. 2456 02:09:24.760 --> 02:09:28.119 But we're done for today, so I'm supposed to say 2457 02:09:28.159 --> 02:09:30.479 the nice things about wrapping up and how we'll see 2458 02:09:30.520 --> 02:09:31.680 you all here shortly. 2459 02:09:31.800 --> 02:09:34.119 Don't forget to like and subscribe and share it to 2460 02:09:34.199 --> 02:09:35.920 your friends and tell your neighbors about it. 2461 02:09:36.039 --> 02:09:38.079 And I don't know your dog too, I don't know 2462 02:09:38.119 --> 02:09:40.760 who you talk to, but we'll be back at four 2463 02:09:40.960 --> 02:09:43.960 thirty pm Central Time next Sunday. And I don't know 2464 02:09:44.000 --> 02:09:46.960 if there's something I'm forgetting, but hopefully at some point 2465 02:09:47.079 --> 02:09:49.840 we'll just kind of end the show. It'll just happen naturally. 2466 02:09:49.920 --> 02:09:50.640 We won't even. 2467 02:09:50.479 --> 02:09:54.960 Realize it's start. 2468 02:09:55.199 --> 02:09:59.119 Hartt Question. 2469 02:10:00.359 --> 02:10:03.439 Shim around You by. 2470 02:10:13.800 --> 02:10:38.000 The watch Talk Even live Sundays at one pm Central. 2471 02:10:38.119 --> 02:10:41.079 Visit tiny dot c c slash y t t H 2472 02:10:41.239 --> 02:10:43.560 and call into the show at five one two nine 2473 02:10:43.720 --> 02:10:46.159 nine one nine two four two, or connect to the 2474 02:10:46.199 --> 02:10:49.279 show online at tiny dot c c slash call th 2475 02:10:49.640 --> 02:10:49.680 H