Speaker 1: We talked about a lot of artifacts and buildings, temples, pyramids,
Speaker 1: and other structures here on Earth ancients. But I became
Speaker 1: aware of what it's known as the Lead Cotises probably
Speaker 1: about five years ago, and I had invited David Elkinson,
Speaker 1: who wrote the book on the topic called Discovering the
Speaker 1: Lead Curtises a few years ago, but he rebuffed me
Speaker 1: and said, no, I can't have you. I can't have
Speaker 1: I can't be on the program because I have too
Speaker 1: much information that I need to sort out and THEO
Speaker 1: is now not up to date. So I said, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll wait for you to come up with more data,
Speaker 1: and here we are. The data has been completed. And
Speaker 1: it's funny because they these are these interesting plates that
Speaker 1: we're going to learn about today that were found in
Speaker 1: Jordan in the Middle East in a cave system, and
Speaker 1: they brought so much controversy because the Church got upset
Speaker 1: immediately and said they were forgeries. The Jordanian government, the
Speaker 1: Egyptian government, the Israeli government all in it almost acquire
Speaker 1: like fashion, said this is fake.
Speaker 2: What are you doing? And a number of people, including
Speaker 2: David and his wife Jennifer, were able to get scientific
Speaker 2: evaluations done of these seventy plates which make up these books,
Speaker 2: and what we're going to hear about today is what
Speaker 2: they discovered. Hey, this is Cliff, your host of Earth Ancients,
Speaker 2: and what we're talking about is is known as the
Speaker 2: Jordan led Cotises. And I've been wanting to get this
Speaker 2: out for a while because not only is it significant,
Speaker 2: it's about as as significant as its Dead Sea Scrolls.
Speaker 2: Because when the Dead Sea Scrolls came out now almost
Speaker 2: seventy years ago, they were immediately dismissed. They were immediately
Speaker 2: thought of as forgeries, and it turns out that they're not.
Speaker 2: And it's one of those things when you're dealing with
Speaker 2: organizations and institutions where change is really slow, and we
Speaker 2: talk about this all the time with archaeology. New discoveries
Speaker 2: will come up, new people will have new thought, and
Speaker 2: they'll be rejected and it's like, hey, if you're not
Speaker 2: part of the status quo, then don't say anything, which
Speaker 2: is kind of sad because it doesn't really open the
Speaker 2: door to a new thought. And this is the big
Speaker 2: problem with organized academic science and study is that it
Speaker 2: takes time. It took fifty years for us too or
Speaker 2: people to adopt the Dead Sea Scrolls, and I think
Speaker 2: we're looking at the same kind of a deal here
Speaker 2: with the Jordan Codices. Now there's a lot of interesting
Speaker 2: aspects of it. There's unusual symbology on these tablets, on
Speaker 2: these codices, and we're going to hear about the analysis
Speaker 2: today of the what technology tells us about these unusual codices.
Speaker 2: But the message within the manuscript I thought was fascinating,
Speaker 2: which is, according to these coteses Jesus Christ. And by
Speaker 2: the way, the scripture the writing is what's known as
Speaker 2: Paleo Hebrew. Paleo Hebrew goes as far back as five
Speaker 2: hundred BC, excuse me, a thousand BC, and way before Christ.
Speaker 2: And what apparently is happening is that there's a rebellion
Speaker 2: among the people during Christ's time and including his followers.
Speaker 2: And what we get is that Christ or Jesus of Nazarene,
Speaker 2: is not founding a new religion, but restoring an ancient
Speaker 2: tradition from the time of King David a thousand years
Speaker 2: before his birth. And this is what we get. We
Speaker 2: get passages in this codis and this is you know again,
Speaker 2: because there's no paper trail, because there's no other documents
Speaker 2: that hint at these codises. This is very upsetting to
Speaker 2: the church. They don't want anybody saying that there's other scriptures,
Speaker 2: there's other data. I mean, I would say, why not.
Speaker 2: I am not a church going person. I never have been.
Speaker 2: My belief is in personal spirituality. And if you want
Speaker 2: to take up the story of Jesus Christ or marry
Speaker 2: or or the Disciples or Moses or whatever, fine, fine,
Speaker 2: But don't I mean for me, having somebody interpret the Bible,
Speaker 2: having somebody interpret the scriptures or sacred Tora or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's just buying into someone else's feelings and philosophy. And
Speaker 2: it can help. I guess. I guess I should be
Speaker 2: I should be so hard. It can help open the
Speaker 2: door and help with your knowledge of the scriptures. But
Speaker 2: I think people tend to fall over themselves and praise
Speaker 2: the pastor praise the priest, praise the rabbi for extoring,
Speaker 2: for providing information that they didn't understand. So there you go.
Speaker 2: I'm always very careful. I try to be careful not
Speaker 2: to upset or offend anybody, but I'm not. I never have.
Speaker 2: But I was forced to go to church and I
Speaker 2: hated it. I think I told the story. I think
Speaker 2: I was in third or fourth grade and the Sunday
Speaker 2: school teachers is telling talking about the an aspect of
Speaker 2: the Bible, and I think I blurted out, well, how
Speaker 2: do you know that's true? You know? I mean. The
Speaker 2: other thing about this the Jordan Cotises is that it has,
Speaker 2: you know, passages from Christ. We don't have a great
Speaker 2: deal of information. And for me personally, I've always thought
Speaker 2: that Christ was made up because the Church fathers heavily
Speaker 2: edited the known Bible, even removing whole sections. We know
Speaker 2: the Book of Enoch was removed. And if you ever
Speaker 2: read the Book of Enoch, and I'd strongly urge you
Speaker 2: to do so. It's very spiritual, it's very esoteric and
Speaker 2: even pagan like in many ways, trusting your instincts, trusting
Speaker 2: your intuition. So for and so get a copy of
Speaker 2: the Book of Enoch because it's fascinating. So today's program
Speaker 2: is Discovering the Lead Cotises and my guest is David Elkington.
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Speaker 2: A few years ago, I found a book called Discovering
Speaker 2: the Lead Cotises, the Book of Seven Seals and the
Speaker 2: Secret Teachings of Jesus, and it turned out that it
Speaker 2: was a book written by David Elkinton and his wife Jennifer.
Speaker 2: And we had David on a few years ago talking
Speaker 2: about another book he wrote on acoustics, and at the
Speaker 2: time David says, I can't talk about this, I just
Speaker 2: cannot reveal the data. And I said to him, well,
Speaker 2: we're going to have to have you back then because
Speaker 2: this is too hot not to discuss. And so here
Speaker 2: we are today with David back to discuss this, and
Speaker 2: we have some significant news to discuss and updates on
Speaker 2: everything about these codises that is actually it is very
Speaker 2: revelation based material. So David, welcome back to Earth Ancient's
Speaker 2: great to see you.
Speaker 3: Hi, Clip, It's nice to be here. It's good to
Speaker 3: see you too.
Speaker 2: We want to start from the beginning to get our
Speaker 2: listeners some background. These are not casual artifacts. These are
Speaker 2: very very significant, not only from a religious standpoint, but
Speaker 2: just from a archival point of view to know where
Speaker 2: if these what the material in the Curtises reveals is
Speaker 2: an important part of not only a religious history, but
Speaker 2: also extends things like the ancient scrolls in the Bible itself.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to the beginning. These were found.
Speaker 2: These courtises are metal, and they were found in the
Speaker 2: hills of Jordan. Talk a little bit about the circumstances
Speaker 2: that you understand of their finding.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we first encountered them via a better win friend
Speaker 3: of ours. It's really a better win Arab called Hassan
Speaker 3: in late two thousand and seven, and we originally received
Speaker 3: an email via our journalist frend with some very indistinct
Speaker 3: attachments two thousand and seven. You know, in that period
Speaker 3: when you sent photographs by email, they were very grainy,
Speaker 3: and you know, you thought, oh, these are a bit dodgy.
Speaker 3: And when I saw them, that's precisely what I thought,
Speaker 3: because I looked at them and they were fascinating and beautiful,
Speaker 3: but they were brown and they had writing on them,
Speaker 3: and I said, this is these are leather, are they
Speaker 3: And the journalist said, no, no, they're not leather. They're lead.
Speaker 3: And I thought, that's really extraordinary. I'd never seen lead
Speaker 3: in that kind of condition. It just struck me as
Speaker 3: being very strange, and a close perspection of the lettering
Speaker 3: real I realized it was very It was very much
Speaker 3: an ancient Phoenician Canaanite text. So you know, we thought, right, okay,
Speaker 3: we're going to we're going to get into this because
Speaker 3: the journalists came back from a trip to Israel to
Speaker 3: see how san and came back with some pretty astonishing
Speaker 3: images that convinced me we had something very big here.
Speaker 3: And then Jennifer and I ourselves traveled out to Israel
Speaker 3: and to Jordan to see the codices and to see
Speaker 3: the site where they came from, or one of the
Speaker 3: sites where they come from, and we realized this was
Speaker 3: really really significant.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you real quickly. So they were found
Speaker 2: between two thousand and five and two thousand and seven
Speaker 2: by a farmer in this cave, and he that suggests
Speaker 2: that they were revealed because of a heavy rain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that the story given us. Now you have to
Speaker 3: kind of take that slightly with a pitcher of salt,
Speaker 3: because Bedowin will sometimes make up these stories of, you know,
Speaker 3: these things being found. But having been in the valley,
Speaker 3: we largely could see that he was absolutely he was
Speaker 3: spot on. He was right, because you could see that
Speaker 3: the valley was such that if there was a heavy rainstorm,
Speaker 3: it would have washed away all the top soil, right,
Speaker 3: And they were revealed, as he said in his own words,
Speaker 3: plug the rock with an X on it.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen Raises the Lost Arc,
Speaker 3: but Indiana Jones stated to his class, almost invariably X
Speaker 3: never marks the spot.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: When I met the Indiana Jones Robert Watts some years later,
Speaker 3: I said to him, you were completely wrong. In our case.
Speaker 3: It did because when they unfoiled the plug and looked in,
Speaker 3: they saw, to use the words of Howard Carter, the
Speaker 3: discoverer of Toutencummen's tomb, wonderful things, you know, and papsite
Speaker 3: is immense. I mean, I'm not talking here about a
Speaker 3: very small cave. I'm talking about a complete underground city
Speaker 3: that goes on for a very very long way. I'm
Speaker 3: talking about here, three or four kilometers.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is the first I've heard of this. You
Speaker 2: don't describe a intricate system in the book.
Speaker 3: No, I'm we're rewriting work because the book you've got
Speaker 3: there was actually censored by the publisher on the orders
Speaker 3: of the church here in UK, and savagely cut in
Speaker 3: very large part. Frankly, what's left of the manuscript in
Speaker 3: that published version is dreadful, and it has literally no
Speaker 3: information at all. The whole thing was sabotaged. And I'm
Speaker 3: afraid to say, as you're reading Jennifer's book, that's been
Speaker 3: the story all the way along. But you know, very threatening.
Speaker 2: It's very threatening to the church, number one, especially if
Speaker 2: it's revisionist history. That's never going to be a good sign.
Speaker 2: But getting back to the curtises, are there other examples?
Speaker 2: Because this is seventy small lead plated books. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't recollect any other historical documents being created in
Speaker 2: that fashion.
Speaker 3: Note these are the first books. These are the first
Speaker 3: ever books, and this is what marks them out is
Speaker 3: they're made of impure lead. And what you have in
Speaker 3: terms of the state of the lead is when we
Speaker 3: handled some of them, they are literally falling to pieces.
Speaker 3: They are very, very very fragile, some of them. Now,
Speaker 3: if you've ever seen lead in that kind of condition,
Speaker 3: please tell me, because our corrosion specialist, Matthew Hood took
Speaker 3: this to the British Ministry of Defense and spoke to
Speaker 3: a load of experts nobody had ever seen led in
Speaker 3: that condition. And his overall analysis, which we are about
Speaker 3: to launch on the YouTube page the Jordan Codices. He
Speaker 3: states in the presentation of the peer review paper which
Speaker 3: we gave in the Houses of Parliament in London, England
Speaker 3: on the twenty first November last year. He states, in
Speaker 3: tandem with the peer review paper's findings on an atomic level,
Speaker 3: that the corrosion definitely dates them to two thousand years ago,
Speaker 3: and that there is no way on God's Earth that
Speaker 3: these things could have been faked. Now we've been accused
Speaker 3: of faking these things up. They have been accused of
Speaker 3: being fakes. But one question that has never been answered
Speaker 3: by anybody detracting from this discovery is if they're fakes,
Speaker 3: what are they fakes of? So on top of that,
Speaker 3: we have the first ever books that they come in
Speaker 3: the form of the codex, which comes from the Latin cordex,
Speaker 3: which is basically referencing the bark of a tree, because
Speaker 3: the bark would be stripped and things will be written
Speaker 3: on the interior, and then plates of these things will
Speaker 3: be piled on top of each other, and then somebody
Speaker 3: came up with the innovation of actually sewing holes on
Speaker 3: the side and connecting them by wire, and this is
Speaker 3: what you have with the lead codices. They have been
Speaker 3: bound very crudely with lead wire, which we know from
Speaker 3: scientific analysis, has been hardened over an open fire because
Speaker 3: they contain carbon in them, which obviously comes from charcoal.
Speaker 3: So it's the binding wires are much stronger than the
Speaker 3: plates of metal they bind, and necessarily so. Now some
Speaker 3: of the books are sealed, some of them are not sealed,
Speaker 3: and they were found in caves in northern Jordan, in
Speaker 3: a very very deep valley, a remarkably beautiful place called
Speaker 3: the Valley of the Skull. And if you look at
Speaker 3: the image which I will forward to you shortly, you
Speaker 3: will see why it's called the Value of the Skull.
Speaker 3: It's really very, very haunting. It's like something out of
Speaker 3: a medieval illumination stroke the Indiana Jones. And the valley
Speaker 3: goes deeper and deeper and deeper, it becomes a gorge.
Speaker 3: And these things are, you know, in caves, to be
Speaker 3: found all around, and they are simply astonishing. But here's
Speaker 3: the best bit. This valley site is not far from
Speaker 3: the Sea of Galilee, okay. And if you go to
Speaker 3: the Bible, you go to the Gospels quite regularly it
Speaker 3: says that Jesus crossed the Jordan and this is exactly
Speaker 3: where the site is. Up in the north country now.
Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, John Marco Allegro, one of the very first
Speaker 3: translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls, worked on the only
Speaker 3: scroll that itself was made of metal, called the Copper Scroll,
Speaker 3: and in it it describes the treasure of the Temple
Speaker 3: of Jerusalem. Twenty years Allegro and others tried to search
Speaker 3: for this tre and the conclusion was that it had
Speaker 3: actually been stolen by the Romans or hidden away and
Speaker 3: never to be found again. But one telling factor that
Speaker 3: Allegro gives us in his book on the Deadsy Scrolls,
Speaker 3: he says, the copper scroll itself says that the caves
Speaker 3: wherein the treasure lies are north of the city of Pella,
Speaker 3: the precise precise description of where our cave site is.
Speaker 3: So we're looking at something here which is very truly profound.
Speaker 3: We're looking at a fully or what was a fully
Speaker 3: intact site of the very first Christians, the Nassaureans, otherwise
Speaker 3: known as the Scenes, where they created these books, and also,
Speaker 3: but to a lesser and much lesser degree, they created
Speaker 3: also little metal scrolls. Let me make the distinction here.
Speaker 3: The Jewish religion uses the scroll. The top ros Grohl
Speaker 3: is famous the world over. It contains the words of Moses.
Speaker 3: The early Christians used the form of the book the codex.
Speaker 3: Therefore we have the site of the first Christians. And
Speaker 3: there's much more evidence. Besides.
Speaker 2: Please speculate, David on the cave system, because I've seen pictures.
Speaker 2: Was it used as a burial, was its as a synagogue?
Speaker 2: Was it used as a meeting place? Why was it found?
Speaker 2: Why were the courtises found there?
Speaker 3: Well, again, it correlates with what the New Testament and
Speaker 3: the non canonical writings tell us. It also correlates with
Speaker 3: what some of the books of the Old Testament tell us, precisely,
Speaker 3: the Books of Jeremiah and the Books of Daniel. In
Speaker 3: Daniel it states quite explicitly, the Angel says to Daniel, Daniel,
Speaker 3: seal up these books, put them in the cave until
Speaker 3: the end of time. This is extraordinary. So what we
Speaker 3: have here is an extraordinary site. And Hassan told us
Speaker 3: will always remember the conversation that when he and his
Speaker 3: friends from the Jordanian side of things went into the
Speaker 3: cave system, there were bodies, fully intact, mummified bodies wearing
Speaker 3: all of the temple regalia. The Jerusalem Temple regalia still
Speaker 3: on their bodies. So they had been stealed into the
Speaker 3: cave and they had died with their sacred treasures.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry there, see these are priests from the old world,
Speaker 2: yes I am.
Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting it from the description Hassan gave us.
Speaker 3: We know that to be the case because the same
Speaker 3: directions are in Josephu's books The Antiquities of the Jews,
Speaker 3: which was written in the first century AD by Josepha,
Speaker 3: who became the adopted son of the Emperor Vespasian when
Speaker 3: he turned against his own people and joined the Remmens.
Speaker 3: So we have very specific explicit details.
Speaker 2: Interesting now, the cotises have symbology, and one of them
Speaker 2: has what appears to be a face of a man,
Speaker 2: and I believe it was you or maybe somebody else
Speaker 2: has suggested this is the face of Jesus of Nazarene.
Speaker 2: Are we has that been verified or are we guessing
Speaker 2: that that is who it is.
Speaker 3: It's been verified by a couple of scholars here in
Speaker 3: the UK, leading world scholars. And if you look at
Speaker 3: the iconography of the small metal book upon which the
Speaker 3: portrait appears on the cover, it has four more seals
Speaker 3: top and bottom three on the left hand side and
Speaker 3: seven seals down the right hand side side. We open it,
Speaker 3: you go to the Book of Revelation, chapter five. Jesus
Speaker 3: is to be seen on the divine throne in heaven
Speaker 3: opening a small seven sealed book, and on the interior
Speaker 3: of the book are three of the most dramatic faces
Speaker 3: you could ever possibly wish to see. We were stunned
Speaker 3: when we saw them. It took us a while to
Speaker 3: get verification of what they could possibly be, because we simply
Speaker 3: weren't expecting it. We came back and we talked to
Speaker 3: a number of scholars here who also had no doubts
Speaker 3: about the authenticity and antiquity of the codices. We were
Speaker 3: allowed to bring one back by the Jordanians in twenty eleven.
Speaker 3: We took it to a major biblical conference at Oxford University,
Speaker 3: where it was handled by some of the world's top
Speaker 3: biblical scholars, who assured us there was no way these
Speaker 3: things could have been in fact.
Speaker 2: Well even my other question is that were they able
Speaker 2: to find references of this metal sculpture of what they
Speaker 2: think is Christ? Is there are other examples of it? They?
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are. I mean, you know, if you look
Speaker 3: at the face itself on the book, it's actually encapsulated
Speaker 3: in a halo or a nimbus.
Speaker 2: Is that what there is? Okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now that basically denotes that he is now separate
Speaker 3: from the world. He is now holy in his own person,
Speaker 3: and he is therefore but I mean become separate from
Speaker 3: the mundane. So it means that he's gone into the
Speaker 3: holy place and he has come out, as the Book
Speaker 3: of Hebrews says, as the great Angel. He is the
Speaker 3: Angel of the Lord, he is the Messiah, he is
Speaker 3: the one who is due to come and knew the
Speaker 3: cow Odd at the end of the jubilee period. And
Speaker 3: underneath it, in the handwriting that is on that text,
Speaker 3: we have him to being described as the Bridegooan. So
Speaker 3: there's much more that I could talk about, but obviously,
Speaker 3: you know, this is such a wide subject. We've mostly
Speaker 3: for the past fourteen years kept a very low profile
Speaker 3: whilst the atomic research on the state of the lead
Speaker 3: has continued. And that's why you know, in the face
Speaker 3: of the onslaught that you know that these things are fake.
Speaker 3: We felt we had no option but to go down
Speaker 3: the purely scientific route, and that's why we announced in
Speaker 3: Parliament this peer review paper that states that they are
Speaker 3: not of modern origin. And then when we did the
Speaker 3: presentation in Parliament, our corrosion expert states quite explicitly, as
Speaker 3: you'll see in the film, that they are two thousand
Speaker 3: years old. And I think that's pretty that's pretty staggering
Speaker 3: really when you consider that. We've also got footage again
Speaker 3: on the YouTube channel the jordan Codices of the interior
Speaker 3: of the cave system that was taken by some of
Speaker 3: the Jordanians a couple of years ago, and it shows
Speaker 3: artifacts intact and for the benefit of your audience, if
Speaker 3: you're patient and wait to the end, you will see
Speaker 3: one of the many tomb chambers absolutely loaded with solid
Speaker 3: gold artifacts.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, wow.
Speaker 3: Yep, we're talking about the treasure of the Champel of Jerusalem. Here,
Speaker 3: we're talking about, you know, a massive, massive treasure. There
Speaker 3: are books here in solid gold, there are statues in
Speaker 3: solid gold. There's all kinds of all manner of things,
Speaker 3: and yet we've been accused of faking these things. And
Speaker 3: it's tragic because we need to preserve the site, we
Speaker 3: need to get archaeologists in there, and we need to
Speaker 3: start under standing what it's about. We need to understand
Speaker 3: the lives of these people, the context of these things,
Speaker 3: and it's an opportunity to bring communities together, both from
Speaker 3: within Jordan and from without, to work together towards a
Speaker 3: proper understanding of the origins of the three Great Bates,
Speaker 3: which of course today our Judaism, Islam and Christianity.
Speaker 2: Right, So are you saying that the site has not
Speaker 2: been properly excavated by archaeologists.
Speaker 3: Not at all.
Speaker 2: You're kidding me.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. They've attempted to suppress everything about
Speaker 3: these things. And as I said, Jennifer tells this story
Speaker 3: in her books, so you can ask her about the whole.
Speaker 2: Jennifer and Jennifer Elkington is David's wife. I'm going to
Speaker 2: take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to
Speaker 2: identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today,
Speaker 2: David at Elkington discussing his book Discovering the Lead Cotises.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back. Discovering new artifacts is very exciting.
Speaker 2: And there's a new museum in Cairo, of all places
Speaker 2: that has it just opened. It's the Grand Egyptian Museum.
Speaker 2: I've been waiting almost eight years for it to open
Speaker 2: and let me tell you, the statuary by itself is
Speaker 2: worth the price of admission. We're talking over one hundred
Speaker 2: thousand artifacts on display from all parts of Egypt, and
Speaker 2: this is a fabulous museum. Hey, this is Cliff, your
Speaker 2: host of Earth Ancients, and we have a few spaces
Speaker 2: left for this amazing tour. We are gonna see the megalists.
Speaker 2: We're gonna go to places that are off the beaten
Speaker 2: paths to see huge statuary, temples and even the pyramids.
Speaker 2: For all the details, go to earth Ancients dot com
Speaker 2: forward slash tours and you will see not only the itinerary,
Speaker 2: but some of the fabulous hotels and other sites that
Speaker 2: we will visit. This is not to be missed. April
Speaker 2: twenty eight through May tenth, Come out and join me.
Speaker 2: For more information, go to earth Ancients dot com forward
Speaker 2: slash tours. My guess today is David Elkinton. He wrote
Speaker 2: a book called The Lead Coatises twenty eleven. Today we're
Speaker 2: talking about a update. It's a documentary that you can
Speaker 2: see on the Earth Ancient's Facebook page. I'll also make
Speaker 2: it available on Instagram. But your best bet is to
Speaker 2: go to Earth Agents, either the group page or the
Speaker 2: public page and you will see it there under his banner.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I understood was, now we've
Speaker 3: last week, we've gone all separate ways, but.
Speaker 2: She is keeping her original birth made.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So if you need to look
Speaker 3: her up, it's s O. L. I. G. N AC. Okay,
Speaker 3: you can see her work. It's quite fantastic to check
Speaker 3: the figure out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the
Speaker 2: analysis that I found was pretty shocking, which is the
Speaker 2: writing isn't what they call Paleo Hebrew, and Paleo Hebrew
Speaker 2: goes back to five hundred BC.
Speaker 3: I know, it goes back to fifteen hundred BC.
Speaker 2: Well, it's extremely old.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: It names Jesus, Christ, Peter, John, Paul, the Disciples. But
Speaker 2: one of the things I wanted you to talk about
Speaker 2: is the manuscript suggests that Jesus was not finding or
Speaker 2: founding a new religion, but restoring ancient traditions from the
Speaker 2: time of King David, almost a thousand years before him.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, if you look at the coteses and
Speaker 3: this is saying very nicely with my last comment, the
Speaker 3: codices themselves reference the Temple of Jerusalem, and if you
Speaker 3: look carefully at the symbolism the menorah, which is the
Speaker 3: sacred candlestick. You look at the altar stones that you
Speaker 3: can see on it, and various bits of plant life.
Speaker 3: You can see that they're not talking about the Temple
Speaker 3: of Jesus time, but about the Temple of Solomon himself,
Speaker 3: the first temple. That's one thousand BC. That's five hundred
Speaker 3: years after the invention of Palo Hebrew. Okay, so what
Speaker 3: we're looking here is an original theology that it actually
Speaker 3: harks back to something very profound, and that therefore what
Speaker 3: we're looking at is Christianity as the restoration of that
Speaker 3: older faith, because Judaism as we know it today was
Speaker 3: formulated from out of the older theology in around about
Speaker 3: the first three or four centuries before Jesus. Before that,
Speaker 3: we had the Hebrew faith. Now, what's the difference between
Speaker 3: a Hebrew and a Jew. Well, a Jew can be
Speaker 3: a Hebrew, but not all Hebrews are Jews, the reason
Speaker 3: being that the Hebrews represent all twelve tribes of Israel.
Speaker 3: The Jews are the tribe of Judah. The word Jew
Speaker 3: is a piece of Babylonian slang from the exile dating
Speaker 3: back to five eighty BC. And when the Jeens got
Speaker 3: back as a tribe to Palestine to Judea in the
Speaker 3: aftermath of that exile, they decided to reform the old
Speaker 3: faith into what today we recognize as Judaism. So Jesus
Speaker 3: comes along a couple of centuries later. He's a member
Speaker 3: of we think of the Essene Nazarians, and the Nasarian
Speaker 3: word means guardian or protector. And the question you have
Speaker 3: to ask is of what obviously of the teachings which
Speaker 3: go way way back. So in essence we've got the
Speaker 3: key here to look at the source of all the
Speaker 3: Abrahamic faiths, which all emerged from that particular period.
Speaker 2: MHM is the do the Curtises bring up questions about,
Speaker 2: say the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Bible any way
Speaker 2: or does it support it?
Speaker 3: They bring up new ways of looking at old things.
Speaker 3: And in fact, one of the Deadsya scrolls does mention
Speaker 3: the making of a small metal book with the face
Speaker 3: of its Holy One on the front. Now, I've written
Speaker 3: about this extensively in my book on the.
Speaker 2: Yet the authority is the The naysayers are saying it's
Speaker 2: a forgery or it's a fake. Oh, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3: Well, here's the point I would like to lay down
Speaker 3: the challenge actually having performed I mean numerous tests, innumerable
Speaker 3: tests in fact, at laboratories across the planet. We've been
Speaker 3: working now for fourteen years with Professor Rogers Ware at
Speaker 3: the University of Surrey. We've been working with Professor Finn
Speaker 3: Stuart at the University of Glasgow and Professor Silk Merkel
Speaker 3: at the Nobel Prize winning University team at the University
Speaker 3: of Vienna, and they've done numerous analyzes of alpha particles
Speaker 3: and patterns within the lead. They've done an awful lot
Speaker 3: of hard work on this, and we're now working on
Speaker 3: further peer review papers because we may well have worked
Speaker 3: out how to finally age date metal, which will be
Speaker 3: a big breakthrough. I hope that's going to come this year.
Speaker 3: But here's the challenge. Our naysayers, those who believe these
Speaker 3: things to be fakes, haven't actually answered the questions what
Speaker 3: are they fakes of? Secondly, I'd like to say to them,
Speaker 3: where is your peer review paper, What metal have you
Speaker 3: tested and where have you tested it? Where did you
Speaker 3: get that metal from, where did you get codices from
Speaker 3: to test that metal? And why haven't you yet responded
Speaker 3: to our peer review paper that shows unequivocally that these
Speaker 3: are not modern. These are in fact, very very ancient.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good call to action. Why do you
Speaker 2: think the academics and perhaps the church is so threatened
Speaker 2: by your revelation.
Speaker 3: Well, oddly enough, we've had a blessing from the late
Speaker 3: Pope Frances bless him, and he was very keen to
Speaker 3: see these objects out in the O And we've had
Speaker 3: no problems in that sense with the church. It's the
Speaker 3: Protestant Church we've had a lot of problems with. It's
Speaker 3: sad because if they've come to us and asked us
Speaker 3: as a team what the context of these things were,
Speaker 3: I would have turned around and said, actually, this is
Speaker 3: profoundly exciting for Christianity because this could and should lead
Speaker 3: to a renewal. There's nothing in this that is a
Speaker 3: danger to Christianity. The only danger is to those who
Speaker 3: want to suppress it, who want to just have their
Speaker 3: view of what it is without expanding that view. Now
Speaker 3: that we've got documents that predate the Council of Nicia,
Speaker 3: that the Council that brought about the dogmas of the
Speaker 3: present day Christianity, predates them by three hundred years. So
Speaker 3: we've got the original documentation. We've got here a way
Speaker 3: to unify these faiths by asking, you know, good, simple
Speaker 3: but solid questions. And we've got a way here of
Speaker 3: actually in a way melting away fundamentalism in the sunlight,
Speaker 3: because they've got the base elements here, we've got the
Speaker 3: foundation documents.
Speaker 2: Is there a lot of description of Christ in the courtises,
Speaker 2: doing things, speaking or so forth.
Speaker 3: You've got to first of all, see that the Codeses
Speaker 3: pre date the Gospels by probably seventy or eighty years.
Speaker 3: At that time, you know, the way which the Messiah
Speaker 3: was heralded or announced was, you would have bibicult statements
Speaker 3: that would therefore almost serve as a curriculum vitae. Here's
Speaker 3: why I'm qualified to do the job, you know. And
Speaker 3: the whole idea of a narrative didn't really come along
Speaker 3: until the Latin Gospel writers, you know, working on the
Speaker 3: Roman level. Hence the word romance. So the Gospels are romances.
Speaker 3: And if you go back to the early Church father
Speaker 3: Papias who lived around about eighty eighty to one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty, I think he says that when the Gospels
Speaker 3: were written very much. The episodes were quite jumbled, and
Speaker 3: they wrote them as it just seemed to appear to them.
Speaker 3: So what you've got really is a series of statements
Speaker 3: that have been stitched together by a narrative. How accurate
Speaker 3: that narrative is, we don't know. Okay, we do have
Speaker 3: a gospel, I believe, amongst the codices. It's a very
Speaker 3: different looking document. It's obviously one of the main codices,
Speaker 3: and there's a huge amount of text in it, and
Speaker 3: I'm working with a translator at the moment to obviously
Speaker 3: bring that out into the open and to transcribe and translate,
Speaker 3: and hopefully we'll have news on that, you know, this
Speaker 3: coming year. But what they're revealing in themselves, in terms
Speaker 3: of what's written in them and in terms of what
Speaker 3: they're saying through their symbolism, is truly very remarkable. And
Speaker 3: one thing I will say, by the way, we've also
Speaker 3: got a lead plate that shows the temper of Jerusalem
Speaker 3: and it shows the Crucifixion taking place, which is part
Speaker 3: of the seventy it's part of the overall from Jordan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so as part of what they picked up in
Speaker 2: the cave.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, well, there are caves plural by the way
Speaker 3: that there are a cave multiple case, right. I mean,
Speaker 3: this is a strange thing. I'm not anti academic, and
Speaker 3: I can't blame them to a certain degree for taking
Speaker 3: the stance they have because nobody was expecting these things
Speaker 3: it came. You know, they were completely blinded by it.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't come from a tenured academic background
Speaker 3: in the sense that I have a place at a
Speaker 3: university where I talk and lecture. I'm a completely independent researcher,
Speaker 3: so they were blindsided by me. Although I have to
Speaker 3: say that before we made the announcement on the BBC
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven, we had a substantial team of people,
Speaker 3: including the late Professor Phillip Davies of Dead Sea Scrolls fame,
Speaker 3: and we spoke to a number of others as well
Speaker 3: who have backed us all the way. So I can't
Speaker 3: blame them. It's now time to put aside our differences
Speaker 3: and get working on excavating the sites and translating these
Speaker 3: things so that people can begin to join in the
Speaker 3: debate into Christian origins and get excited by what they've
Speaker 3: got to reveal. Because I can tell you now they
Speaker 3: are profound they're really profound.
Speaker 2: If you have somebody that was from this Dead Sea
Speaker 2: scroll research, Richard, wouldn't that help validate the authenticity of
Speaker 2: the plates.
Speaker 3: We had all of that, and then the ferocity of
Speaker 3: the backlash against us was such that they withdrew back
Speaker 3: into the academic shadows because it was very harsh. I mean,
Speaker 3: it was very very harsh.
Speaker 2: It may you make it sound like they're accusing you
Speaker 2: of rewriting in biblical history or something.
Speaker 3: Well it wasn't that. I mean, they just accused the
Speaker 3: They accused me of knowing that these things were fake,
Speaker 3: when actually I think it was largely fear. Perhaps, I
Speaker 3: don't know that. The fact of the matter is we've
Speaker 3: done our duty, We've shown them to be authentic. It's
Speaker 3: time to take the thing seriously, because I'd like to
Speaker 3: hand it over to academ so that we could actually,
Speaker 3: as I say, start looking at these things. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know what gets me, Cliff, It's two thousand years
Speaker 3: since the death of Jesus on the cross, and he
Speaker 3: said he would come back, there'd be a second coming,
Speaker 3: and he's right there on the front cover of that
Speaker 3: book and on its interior. He kept his word. He's
Speaker 3: backed Christ is back. We need now to grasp that
Speaker 3: and to run with it because our world needs that.
Speaker 3: We've got a world in massive moral and spiritual breakdown
Speaker 3: and now got the means to revivify it, renew the church,
Speaker 3: and march forward hand in hand with our other fellow
Speaker 3: religions in a way in which we can extol Christ's
Speaker 3: own words, and that is love thy neighbor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally hear you there. In one of
Speaker 2: the images that you post, and I think I've seen
Speaker 2: in a couple of other websites, the earlier plates or
Speaker 2: covers have what appears to be hieroglyphs on them, little
Speaker 2: notches and nicks and things like that. Has somebody deciphered that?
Speaker 2: Is that a code or is that more of a
Speaker 2: design element?
Speaker 3: I think it's probably a design element. There are coder
Speaker 3: within them, definitely, which again we're investigating. But it's the
Speaker 3: use of Paleo Hebrew that struck me, because, of course,
Speaker 3: in Jesus' time we had the use of Aramaic, we
Speaker 3: had the beginnings of square form Hebrew, which was at
Speaker 3: least one hundred two hundred years old by the time
Speaker 3: of Jesus, and therefore the making books, and I thought, well,
Speaker 3: why paleo Hebrew? Looking it up in you know, dictionaries
Speaker 3: and studying it and seeing that it dates back to
Speaker 3: fifteen sixteen hundred BC, and that it emerged from out
Speaker 3: of what we call proto Syinitic was fascinating. And I
Speaker 3: realized that, you know, in the UK, if you get
Speaker 3: sent to the House of Lords as a peer, you
Speaker 3: are given letters patent, and they're all written in Latin.
Speaker 3: Now there can't be many peers who could actually read
Speaker 3: that Latin, but the use of that kind of gives
Speaker 3: them a kind of a historical credibility. And I wondered
Speaker 3: if it was the same with the books. The use
Speaker 3: of Paleo Hebrew somehow was to lend them the aura
Speaker 3: of an even greater sanctity. And then I realize, of
Speaker 3: course that we have the episode of Moses on the mountain,
Speaker 3: and of course I realized if there's something, well you
Speaker 3: could say divine about them, because they contain divine imagery,
Speaker 3: and the ones that contain that imagery are all sealed.
Speaker 3: So this is imagery that in its day was not
Speaker 3: supposed to be seen. If you looked at the seven
Speaker 3: branch Gnora and you saw it, it was punishable by death.
Speaker 3: Because what we're talking about here is God's own furniture
Speaker 3: in his own house, which of course was the Temple
Speaker 3: of Jerusalem, and the cube at its center called the
Speaker 3: Holy of Holies, and only the high priest could go
Speaker 3: in there once a year on the day of Attonement,
Speaker 3: and then he would go in amidst clouds of frankincense
Speaker 3: and in a state of high purification, but also great fear,
Speaker 3: because if you read about the God of the Old Testament,
Speaker 3: he's a bit fearful, actually, you know, very very a
Speaker 3: thundering presence, you might say, you know, go back to
Speaker 3: the days of Solomon. It seems less. So there seems
Speaker 3: to be a much less hard side to God, because
Speaker 3: obviously Solomon is looking at the divine scheme from a
Speaker 3: less monotheistic way, you might say.
Speaker 2: One of the things I've been reading about is the
Speaker 2: discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. When they were found,
Speaker 2: they were summarily rejected as well. But one of the
Speaker 2: serious problems, and this is what you're addressing in our
Speaker 2: interview today, is the fact that after they were found,
Speaker 2: it took fifty years for solid research to really begin
Speaker 2: to take into affect the meaning and the acceptance of
Speaker 2: these scrolls. How can we cut the time factor on this.
Speaker 2: What do we need to do so that we can
Speaker 2: get in our solid research going on this.
Speaker 3: Get it right out there, get the films out on
Speaker 3: social media that we're releasing now and into the near future.
Speaker 3: Get it right out Let's create discussion and debate. Let's
Speaker 3: get people working on this. Let's make it an open
Speaker 3: debate because it's an exciting one. That's the best way
Speaker 3: to go around this. We need academic help, We need
Speaker 3: the help from non specialists because non specialists might come
Speaker 3: up with observations that don't seem so obvious to the
Speaker 3: likes of people like myself and others. You know, I
Speaker 3: agree anybody can take part in this, and everybody should
Speaker 3: because it's their cultural heritage as well. So, you know,
Speaker 3: we need to get this right out there, and then
Speaker 3: we need to put pressure on the Jordaaning government to
Speaker 3: take this seriously. We need to put pressure on aspects
Speaker 3: of the church to say, look, you know your own collapse.
Speaker 3: The church is collapsing worldwide. We've got something now with
Speaker 3: which to grow the church and give people something that's
Speaker 3: really exciting, A new moral perspective that we urgently need
Speaker 3: right now so that we can actually start to rebuild
Speaker 3: and walk forward into the future. And we cannot continue
Speaker 3: to treat our history as if it's today's political football.
Speaker 3: We need more debate on these things. We do not
Speaker 3: need suppression.
Speaker 2: Have the Curtis has been completely deciphered this point and
Speaker 2: is there a website who can go and we can
Speaker 2: read the actual information.
Speaker 3: I've put a few bits up and I will be
Speaker 3: putting more up in the near future. We are working
Speaker 3: on deciphering them. They're an awful lot of codesies. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm talking here of hundreds of the things, and you know,
Speaker 3: this is much bigger than the Dead Sea scrolls. We're
Speaker 3: looking here at text after text after text, and you know,
Speaker 3: for the past fourteen years, it's literally been Jennifer and
Speaker 3: myself and that's it. There's been a few others that
Speaker 3: they've fallen by the wayside, and we now need to,
Speaker 3: you know, get another team together, get working on this,
Speaker 3: and get it, get it out there, share it with
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 2: I've We've got surprising that you don't have more support.
Speaker 3: You know, well, yeah, so do I I do agree
Speaker 3: with you there, but you know we're doing our best
Speaker 3: and trying to, you know, keep going. But all I
Speaker 3: can say is that I'm glad I can hold my
Speaker 3: head up eye that the accusation these things are not
Speaker 3: modern means that. Well. Actually, to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: I'd really like to thank our opponents for actually claiming
Speaker 3: that I'm a genius. One thing I'd like to state,
Speaker 3: quite honestly, is that I'm not. But they think I
Speaker 3: had the genius of knowing how to fake up two
Speaker 3: thousand year old lead when it couldn't be done by
Speaker 3: Bold's greatest atomic laboratories. If that sounds sarcastic, I don't
Speaker 3: mean it too, because actually the journey itself has given
Speaker 3: me pause and made me think too. And I'm really
Speaker 3: grateful to these people for this because it actually made
Speaker 3: me a better person. And isn't that what the Bible
Speaker 3: was about?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly exactly. We're going to take a short commercial
Speaker 2: break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we
Speaker 2: will return shortly with my guest today, David Elkinton, discussing
Speaker 2: his book Discovering the Lead Courtesies. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: My returning guest today is David Elkington coming to us
Speaker 2: from London, and he is the producer of a new
Speaker 2: documentary on the Jordanian led cotises that you can see
Speaker 2: on Earth Ancients, Go to Earth Ancients. You'll see the
Speaker 2: banner and you can download or see it in the
Speaker 2: covert of your home and get the details on just
Speaker 2: what's been going on and the scientific testing that dates
Speaker 2: the codises to over two thousand years. I want you
Speaker 2: to talk about some recent testing that was done at
Speaker 2: the University of Surrey Surrey excuse me, Ion Beams Center,
Speaker 2: and how that got started and what the results were
Speaker 2: we got.
Speaker 3: Back from Jordan in twenty eleven, we launched the the
Speaker 3: Discovery onto the wide world. Then we got condemned for
Speaker 3: it by various parties, and so we knew we'd already
Speaker 3: undertaken a number of research inquiries into the stage of
Speaker 3: the metal, but we needed to go a lot deeper
Speaker 3: into it because it had been confirmed that the lead
Speaker 3: was of Roman prominence. But the detractors made the very
Speaker 3: fair point that it could also have been rebeaten lead,
Speaker 3: So we thought, right, okay, So I got in touch
Speaker 3: with the University of Sorry because I knew they had
Speaker 3: a major Metallurgical department there. When I introduced ourselves to
Speaker 3: Professor web and we got going, I must admit I
Speaker 3: had high hopes we'd probably you know, finished the analysis
Speaker 3: within one or two years, but the criticism of us
Speaker 3: meant that we couldn't raise fun to get things done quickly.
Speaker 2: The experiments expensive is the technology it is expensive, and
Speaker 2: we therefore had to wait in the queue.
Speaker 3: We had to wait our time. When there was time
Speaker 3: for the analysis to be under undertaken, Professor Webb was
Speaker 3: able to secure certain European grants on occasion to do
Speaker 3: that analysis. And basically the initial analysis involved the detection
Speaker 3: of alpha wave particles coming out of the lead. If
Speaker 3: there were alf away particles coming out, then it would
Speaker 3: have meant that the metal was modern. And in twenty
Speaker 3: twelve the initial tests said they were modern. There were
Speaker 3: alpha wave particles coming out of the cover of the
Speaker 3: codex that we had brought back with us from Jordan.
Speaker 3: We were baffled by this because our corrosion analysis analyst,
Speaker 3: sorry Matthew, said there's no way it could be modern
Speaker 3: because the partit alone could not be faked and it
Speaker 3: had the corrosion elements on it. And then we realized
Speaker 3: about a year or so later, thanks to Matthew and
Speaker 3: to Professor Web, that actually what had happened was that
Speaker 3: water had washed through the cave site and over the
Speaker 3: codex a trade a bit of limescale. Now there's natural
Speaker 3: raid on gas or polonium in the sky that comes
Speaker 3: down with the rain and that contains alpha particles washing
Speaker 3: over the cover of the book, and that's why it
Speaker 3: seemed active. And finally in twenty sixteen we actually took
Speaker 3: the step of opening the seals on the book and
Speaker 3: opening a book itself and doing further tests on the interior,
Speaker 3: and we found there were no alpha webs whatsoever. The
Speaker 3: book was the real genuine McCoy.
Speaker 2: So you can't use carbon dating to date metal. What
Speaker 2: were the systems that were in play to give us
Speaker 2: a sense of the age.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, the decay of the alpha particles
Speaker 3: can be measured. One thing that press Webb told me
Speaker 3: some time ago is that when you melt lead, you're
Speaker 3: kind of really setting its clock. So from the moment
Speaker 3: you melt it, the helium in it begins to decay.
Speaker 3: So the older it is, the more helium there will be.
Speaker 3: So the theesis is now and we've been successful successfully
Speaker 3: and unsuccessfully trying to get enough sensitive machinery to measure
Speaker 3: the helium output. Once we can actually measure accurately the
Speaker 3: helium output at the point of melting, then we will
Speaker 3: have a means of dating the metal itself, and that's
Speaker 3: what we're working on at the present time.
Speaker 2: Okay, but I think I remember reading in that paper
Speaker 2: that there were two other testing devices or programs that
Speaker 2: you submitted the leads to, and I don't remember what
Speaker 2: the outcome was.
Speaker 3: Well, we were looking at thorium. We were looking thorium. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the mullum testing as well as the helium testing, and
Speaker 3: obviously the alpha particle side of things as well. It
Speaker 3: is very complex interior science of the metal itself, but
Speaker 3: it was more or less trying to ascertain the antiquity
Speaker 3: of the book through the elements that were within it,
Speaker 3: and that's what we're still working on. So, for instance,
Speaker 3: on one of the samples of lead, the analysis which
Speaker 3: was from just over a year ago, suggested again a
Speaker 3: two thousand year old date for the book, but unfortunately
Speaker 3: the background radiation of the original lead or was also
Speaker 3: mingling with the results to give us twenty thousand to
Speaker 3: two hundred thousand year old date. So we're trying to
Speaker 3: now narrow that down and I'm hoping that the next
Speaker 3: periody paper will succeed with that because we think there's
Speaker 3: a way around it. But as per usual, we need
Speaker 3: to raise the funds to get the job done.
Speaker 2: Right. Does it the beetina denote great age?
Speaker 3: Yes? It does. Yeah. Yeah. Part of the controversy over
Speaker 3: the Jesus osuury that was found in Israel about twenty
Speaker 3: years ago, and it says inscribed in I think in
Speaker 3: Hebrew on the front of it it says Jesus son
Speaker 3: of Joseph or was that effect? And you know it
Speaker 3: was recently declared to be fake because their patination had
Speaker 3: been obviously applied on microscopic analysis it was shown to
Speaker 3: be the case. We haven't seen any of them on
Speaker 3: the lead books. And in fact, what I'll do, I'll
Speaker 3: also send you a fake lead book made by Hassan
Speaker 3: and his friends. It's beautiful. They've done a really good job.
Speaker 3: But the problem is is that the pagination they weren't
Speaker 3: able to make it uniform across the whole surface of
Speaker 3: the lead. It's only to be seen around the lettering.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, where are they making a fake?
Speaker 3: Because they wanted to see if these things could have
Speaker 3: been made, if they could have been faked.
Speaker 2: Oh, they were trying to see if they could Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean an age is what you're saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In two thousand and nine I said to him,
Speaker 3: do you think you could fake these things up?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Okay, I think he kind of you know, but also
Speaker 3: don't forget as well that Bedouin you know, Israeli Arabs.
Speaker 3: They also like other you know, Arabs in Jordan and elsewhere.
Speaker 3: If you find something, they like to kind of up
Speaker 3: the ante, but adding bits of their own so they
Speaker 3: can make more, you know. And I can't blame them again.
Speaker 3: I'd do the same if I were there. You know.
Speaker 2: The book's called Discovering the Lead Curtises, the Book of
Speaker 2: Seven Seals and the Secrets.
Speaker 3: Can I can? I just intersperse?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 3: And please don't buy that book. It's awful. It's it's
Speaker 3: a censored version of our original manuscript.
Speaker 2: It's hard to get a hold of. I mean this
Speaker 2: book I have, I've had it for over a year.
Speaker 2: I mean it's from a library, so there must not
Speaker 2: be many out there. I had to get a use
Speaker 2: I had to go to use bookstore.
Speaker 3: Fortunately there are less than a thousand because we the
Speaker 3: company went bankrupt after they published it, and we managed
Speaker 3: to seize hold of a lot of them. But well,
Speaker 3: you know, if anybody wants to read a really good book,
Speaker 3: it's the book that came up with that. It's the
Speaker 3: academic text. If you can get a hold of a copy,
Speaker 3: it's called the Case for the Jordan Codices.
Speaker 2: Or is it actual? Is it a university paper or.
Speaker 3: It's a series of academic papers in the form of
Speaker 3: a book published by twenty fourteen by Professor Phillip Davies, myself,
Speaker 3: doctor Keith hen Jennifer, Margaret Barker, and a forward written
Speaker 3: by Jean Claude Brigade.
Speaker 2: But I think we asked some We have something even better, David.
Speaker 2: We have this video that you're going to send to me,
Speaker 2: that you have sent to me and those of you listening.
Speaker 2: This is David's recent review of the testing as well
Speaker 2: as latest information in a video that I will place
Speaker 2: throughout the social media. Go to Earth Ancients, look for
Speaker 2: the link, look for the picture of David and the
Speaker 2: banner for the week, and I'll have the video link
Speaker 2: next to that, So there you go anywhere we have
Speaker 2: on Instagram, Facebook, on the Earth Ancient's website, it'll be everywhere.
Speaker 2: So I think that what you say, that's better. That's
Speaker 2: the best way to go is to.
Speaker 3: Show absolutely and if they want to visit, if your
Speaker 3: viewers want to visit the YouTube channel which is the
Speaker 3: Jordan hashtags the Jordan Codices, they can also go to
Speaker 3: the led Codices dot com website. And for those who
Speaker 3: are really interested in the science, there is also another
Speaker 3: website we've set up called the Newman Society. I will
Speaker 3: send you the details so you can forward it to
Speaker 3: your your viewers. But you know, this is progressing and
Speaker 3: we're we've got a lot to announce because there's some
Speaker 3: pretty sensational stuff in the Codsese.
Speaker 2: Give us an update, David as to where you're going
Speaker 2: and what we can look forward to. Let's just say
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, Well that's to this year.
Speaker 3: I'm hoping that Jennifer and I will get our books
Speaker 3: published by mainstream publishers this year. I've written the book
Speaker 3: on the context, translation, and history of the Codices, putting
Speaker 3: everything back into the proper biblical context. Now that they've
Speaker 3: been discovered. Jennifer has written a wonderful two volume of
Speaker 3: books on the everyday adventure of what happened to us,
Speaker 3: who did what to us, and who said what to whom?
Speaker 3: And it's very spicy, very juicy, and I think it
Speaker 3: will tell a very very remarkable story to an audience
Speaker 3: who will not be able to put it down.
Speaker 2: I think, just to interrupt you for a minute, you
Speaker 2: have spoken to me that you've had your life threatened
Speaker 2: a couple of times. Yes, yeah, that's I mean, is
Speaker 2: that running you off the road or is it more serious?
Speaker 3: It's more serious that. To be honest with you, Cliff,
Speaker 3: I find it exhilarating.
Speaker 2: Guy, buddy, come by, now, Well, why.
Speaker 3: Somebody wants to kill me if these things are fake?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I guess you could put it in that context.
Speaker 2: But you know, there's been a lot of people, not
Speaker 2: a lot, but there's been a handful of people in
Speaker 2: the alternative research field that have been put away because
Speaker 2: of their the threat to certain organizations. I can name
Speaker 2: a handful.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not I would say I'm kind of I've
Speaker 3: got a foot in both camps, alternative and orthodox, because
Speaker 3: you know, I'm left handed dyslexic, irish, I see things.
Speaker 3: You know, I've got a big sense of humor, which
Speaker 3: also helps as well. Yeah with you. You know, I
Speaker 3: don't want to make anything of this because it's the
Speaker 3: way humans act. I mean, you know, coming big here.
Speaker 3: I want to share it with even with those people,
Speaker 3: because when they realize what it is we've got and
Speaker 3: it's going to need to renewal, they'll become a part
Speaker 3: of this too, I'm sure, and I wish them, yes,
Speaker 3: because this is about the renewal of the spirit in
Speaker 3: modern human society. Because Jesus said he would come back.
Speaker 3: He's back. Now that's the word out there real quickly.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, do you you've been in
Speaker 2: contact with the scholars behind the research and the Dead
Speaker 2: Sea scrolls. Did they have this same kind of problem
Speaker 2: when they first released the information on the scrolls? That
Speaker 2: was a long AGO's almost ninety years ago, isn't it
Speaker 2: when they found out.
Speaker 3: Oh, sort of nineteen forty seven, so that's about eighty
Speaker 3: years ago.
Speaker 2: Eighty years ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of controversy, definitely. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean one senior scholar told us about all about
Speaker 3: ten twelve years ago that when scholars first were brought
Speaker 3: in to translate them, they were given orders by certain
Speaker 3: people from one eye to translate them away from christian origin.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we were. I was astonished by that. And yeah,
Speaker 3: but you know again, you know we're eighty years down
Speaker 3: the pathway now Christianity is it's not in a brilliant state.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the church, not necessarily Christianity church.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need now to start reconfiguring thinking about it
Speaker 3: and as I said, we need to start loving our labels.
Speaker 2: David, this has been a real eye opener and a
Speaker 2: pleasure having you on the program. I want to mention
Speaker 2: to our listeners that David is going to send me.
Speaker 2: I think we agreed on five to seven photographs from
Speaker 2: the book that he took of not only the cave,
Speaker 2: but details of these codeses the middle and how it
Speaker 2: was forged into these little small books are small, so
Speaker 2: you can go to Earth Ancients on Facebook and you'll
Speaker 2: see all the details. David, we want to follow up
Speaker 2: on this, so let's have you back and we'll have
Speaker 2: Jennifer back to do see the next phase of this research.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and just one small thing I forgot to mention,
Speaker 3: just that your viewers might find quite exciting if they
Speaker 3: go to the Gospel of John to the episode of
Speaker 3: the woman taking in adultery. Jesus went faced with the elders.
Speaker 3: Before he utters his wonderful immortal words, he kneels down
Speaker 3: to write in the sand. That is the description of
Speaker 3: the making of a lead book. Sand is wetted with water,
Speaker 3: You write in it, you stamp in your your symbols,
Speaker 3: and then you pour molten lead over it. Within a
Speaker 3: matter of a few minutes, you have got uniform, thin
Speaker 3: sheets of lead that can then be trimmed, piled on
Speaker 3: top of each other, and sewn together to give you
Speaker 3: a codex.
Speaker 2: Are you speculating that that's how they were made?
Speaker 3: Nope, we know that's how they were made, they don't.
Speaker 2: They pour the mold of the cover in the wet sand.
Speaker 3: In the sand. In wet sand, you know, when you
Speaker 3: go to the sea, Yeah, and you're sea shore down,
Speaker 3: you leave footprints in the wet sand and it takes
Speaker 3: two or three incoming waves to finally erase the mark.
Speaker 3: That's exactly how you make a metal book, because once
Speaker 3: you've wet the sand, the sand will not collapse. When
Speaker 3: you're pouring in the metal because it's wet. So we
Speaker 3: have the world's first printing in a sense that's amazing.
Speaker 2: I never even thought about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that tells you immediately that there's
Speaker 3: a coder within the Gospels even which is giving you
Speaker 3: chap from Verse on these things. So that's another curious
Speaker 3: piece of well teasing information from myself, which we'll talk
Speaker 3: about in the coming months.
Speaker 2: Best wish is to get your books published and for
Speaker 2: keep in touch with me as see if I can help.
Speaker 2: If you can't get a straight line to a publisher,
Speaker 2: I would think that someone would be love to pick
Speaker 2: up this new book.
Speaker 3: Well, now we've you know, verified the authenticity of these
Speaker 3: things on the footage is now available online. I'm hoping
Speaker 3: that somebody will be brave enough to take on the
Speaker 3: task of getting this information out to Christians and non
Speaker 3: Christians everywhere, because this is really important.
Speaker 2: It would be a new Year's wish for you and
Speaker 2: for us to have this validated on a global scale.
Speaker 2: But I think the books would be a good first
Speaker 2: step in the right direction.
Speaker 3: Boroally agree absolutely my success.
Speaker 2: Keep it up.
Speaker 3: And it's great speaking with your Cliff as ever and
Speaker 3: speak to you hopefully later in the year.
Speaker 2: You know, discovery is what we're all about here on earth, ancients,
Speaker 2: and from the very minute that I decided to do
Speaker 2: a podcast, my goal was to find stories like this,
Speaker 2: the led coteses or books that are old and that
Speaker 2: people don't know about, and they shake up the institutions
Speaker 2: of education and higher learning. It obviously religion we need
Speaker 2: to be shaken up. We're too docile or too complacent
Speaker 2: in our daily activities. And I'm always questioning history, and
Speaker 2: this is one of the best examples of questioning the
Speaker 2: disciples of Christ and Christ himself. If these are actually
Speaker 2: what they look like they are, which is documents of
Speaker 2: a time prior to the Bible. This is prior to
Speaker 2: the people who wrote the Bible. So and I just
Speaker 2: love the story and I really urge you to see
Speaker 2: the documentary. You can also see go to Jordancourtises dot com,
Speaker 2: I guess and see what's there. But the documentary is
Speaker 2: fairly new and we didn't really talk about it. He's
Speaker 2: coming up with another book later in the year, so
Speaker 2: we have that to look forward to also, So it
Speaker 2: was fun having him on the program. We will have
Speaker 2: him back. I'm sure we'll have him back before the
Speaker 2: end of the year given his commitment to the projects
Speaker 2: having to do with these codises. So fun stuff. Hey,
Speaker 2: I haven't mentioned it recently, but I'll be speaking at
Speaker 2: the New Living Expo April seventeenth in Santra Fiel, which
Speaker 2: is just north of San Francisco, and I'm presenting some
Speaker 2: new slides on Mayan pyramid tech. Where they developed their science,
Speaker 2: how they utilized it, and what we don't know scientifically,
Speaker 2: what we're beginning to understand and from these oral traditions
Speaker 2: left to us by the Maya, we're beginning to sense
Speaker 2: that they really had a science in place that was
Speaker 2: able to change not only the environment but human physiology.
Speaker 2: For all the details on this expo, go to a
Speaker 2: New Livingexpo dot com and you can see the entire
Speaker 2: itinerary and daily speakers is over. I think it's about
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty speakers over three days the seventeenth, eighteenth,
Speaker 2: and nineteenth of April. So if you can make it,
Speaker 2: come on down, say hi and take in the information.
Speaker 2: Love to have you on the program. All right, then,
Speaker 2: for this podcast, I want to think my guest today
Speaker 2: David Elkington, coming to us from London as always the
Speaker 2: team of Gueltor, Mark Foster and Faisal Pravar. You guys
Speaker 2: rock al right, Take care of you well and we'll
Speaker 2: talk to you next time. The Woman lads