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Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,

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an idea.

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Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through.

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Speaker 1: The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If

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I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,

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not because I put my hand on a book and

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made a wish and working together for a more rational world.

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Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.

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Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.

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Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Speaker 2: There is video of the conversation you are about to

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hear with my special guest, Dave Farina. Dave has a

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BA in chemistry from Charlton College. He has an MA

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in Science education from California State University Northridge. He taught

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chemistry in classrooms for a long time until he turned

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his attention pretty much to full time online science communication

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and education, and he runs the Professor Dave Explains YouTube channel,

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which is linked in the description box. With the country

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on fire and science under attack, I thought it would

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be a good idea to speak to yet another science

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educator on the show today. Here we go. Today, I'm

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going to talk to a friend and science educator who

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has strong opinions about the anti science that is infecting

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like a cancer, not just the United States, but the world.

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Dave Arena glad to see again.

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Speaker 3: Man AIDI, thanks for having me for those who.

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Speaker 2: Are just now being introduced to you. Let's do our

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due diligence. Who are you?

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Speaker 3: What do you do? I'm a science communicator and I

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focus mainly on a YouTube channel called Professor Dave Explains.

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Started out mainly doing academic tutorials for high school and

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college students in a variety of topics, mainly science, but

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then branching out, but for the past five years or

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so have developed an audience with debunking content where I

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really aggressively go after these bad faith actors that are

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peddling lies in pseudoscience and exposing them to the best

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of my ability.

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Speaker 2: Your channel is an interesting mix because there's a lot

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of deep dives into hard science for kids. I say

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kids thirty year old, you know who are undergoing masters

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and PhD type programs and the sciences. So when I

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say kids, maybe I just betrayed my age. No insult intended,

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But on top of that, then you go after people

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like Eric Weinstein. So I guess we'll start there. Who

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is he and what's your problem with him?

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Speaker 3: Oh? My god, how do we even begin? Eric Weinstein

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is a pseudo intellectual fraud who is paid by Peter

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Teel to spread anti science and anti establishment rhetoric on

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the Internet. He's basically a propaganda mouthpiece. He's a guy

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who goes on podcasts and pretends to sound as smart

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as possible to trick gullibal A people into raging against

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the university system and peer review and all of these

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institutions that are the way we gather knowledge, the way

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that we substantiate knowledge.

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Speaker 2: Hang on, hang on, David, I'm sorry he's going hard

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against peer review.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he does it all the time. He did

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it on the first Peers Morgan segment that I was

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supposed to be on that I was kicked off at

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the last minute. I think because Eric said he didn't

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want me to be part of it. He wanted this

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whole tirade with Brian Keating, like whining about how peer

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review is like only very recent and it's just like

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a gatekeeping method and all this stuff. I mean, you know,

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the drill, Like, if peer review is keeping your pseudoscience

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out of real journals, then it's corruption, right, It's not

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just the system working the way it's supposed to and

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highlighting bad science and preventing it from getting published in

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real journals. You know. So that's his that's one of

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his many sticks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But I mean the guy's got a PhD from Harvard.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now granted it's mathematics not biology. But when somebody throws

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out the degree like that, someone in my position is like,

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oh shit, PhD Harvard, what do I do with that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, I mean it's true he fumbled his way

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through a doctorate at Harvard. You know, he's never published anything. Like,

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he's not he's not a scientist right now. The problem

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is that he is educated, So it's not he's not

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Terrence Howard. Right, he does have the language and he

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does understand what these words mean, which enables him to

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better craft his script. So I mean the takeaway is, yes, like,

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you don't just go PhD. Therefore the right you never

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do that. There are Nobel Prize winners that descend into

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crack pottery. Luke Montagnier won the Nobel for isolating HIV

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and then for a decade or longer has been pushing

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water memory and all this other crap, Like he's like

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the quintessential Nobel disease crackpot. So yeah, that someone has

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a doctorate makes them more likely to be correct. But

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people with PhDs can be lying frauds. They can be

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disgusting lying frauds. Eric Weinstein is one such person. And

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people who play the credentials game will only do it

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in one direction, right, They'll do it for Eric, But

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then anybody like I just I had recently did a

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piece covering he had a spat with Sean Carroll on

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Piers Morgan as well.

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Speaker 2: Now, who is Sean Carroll?

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Speaker 3: Forgive me go ahead, sure, Yeah, Sean is a real physicist, right,

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It's not like he's the most prominent physicist in the

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game or anything. He's a working physicist, a respected working

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physicist who is also an extremely popular science communicator, so

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he has tremendous contribution with science communication, but is also

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a working physicist. So if your big thing is looking

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for a PhD, but you ignore all of the working

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physicists to step up and expose Eric, right, which has

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been happening increasingly. I've had several on my channel working

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physicists go through his geometric unity, which is his incredible

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theory of everything, which he released on April Fool's Day

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in twenty twenty one, saying this is a work of entertainment,

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it's not supposed to be taken seriously, only to then

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go on the podcast circuit for years whining about how

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academics won't take him seriously and he's being pushed out

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of the conversation. It just serves his whole anti establishment paranoia,

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conspiracy pedaling. But really what he was doing was just

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avoiding scrutiny as long as possible, Right know what, he

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educated actually look at this thing, so I can go

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on podcasts and use all of my jargon and look

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as smart as possible, so then I can then spew

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my ridiculous Peter Teel funded agenda. But then you know,

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it caught up to him. People started actually looking at

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it and going, Wow, this is a gigantic piece of crap.

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What are you doing pretending that this is something that

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anybody educated should be looking at? And so he's really

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descended in the past six months or so, I want

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to say, it's been a joint effort. I did a

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huge piece on him and his brother last year, but

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then the Sean Carroll thing and then the blowback from that.

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He's pretty universally recognized to be a complete fraud now,

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and the blowback in the Teal sphere is compounding because

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people likes to be in a Hasenfelder are going to

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his defense, and then by proxy people are going, oh, wait, okay,

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so she's a fraud too. It's incredibly hilarious Kurt Jaimunngall,

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Brian Keating. All these sycophants are being exposed one by

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one simply, not simply, but largely due to their willingness

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to defend the blatantly fraudulent Eric Weinstein. It's quite delightful.

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Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned Peter Teel. This is the billionaire oligarch

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puppeteer behind much of the bullshit that's been happening in

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the United States, extremely well funded and dangerous. You want

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to speak specifically to Teal before I move on?

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Speaker 3: Sure, I mean he has his hands in pallenteer and

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and the Orwellian surveillance systems that are being put into place.

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He basically hand picked the vice president. He was like Jdevance,

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You're vice president. Now in so many words, that's essentially

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what happened. I mean, yeah, he's just as he's a

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billionaire wanting to do billionaire things, which includes just like

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a huge part of it is control, right if you

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want to when you have a situation when you have

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a wealth inequality like we do today with just this rampant,

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unfettered capitalism, where we're seeing the point one percent right,

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the top handful richest people getting wealthier and wealthier and

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wealthier at this alarming rate, while more and more people right,

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the middle classes shriveling, and so many people are below

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the poverty line. How do you maintain that transference of wealth? Right,

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nobody's willingly going to coalesce with that, so you have

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to manipulate them. It requires propaganda, and all of the

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propaganda is centered around getting people to distrust scientists, institutions

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of higher learning. Basically anybody that's telling the truth has

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to be demonized so that people's behavior can be controlled,

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their consumer behavior, their voting behavior. They want to keep

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people in office that are basically just completely subservient to

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the oligarchy, which is epitomized by the Trump administration obviously,

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and this is the name of the game. And so

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Teal needs mouthpieces, right, he needs pawns to disseminate his

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propaganda on the internet. Eric Weinstein number one, Right, And

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that's not even speculative, like he's been on the Teal

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payroll on paper for fifteen years or whatever. So others

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I've speculated sabin a Hasenfelder, and I've made a lot

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of content about that. I can't prove it, but that

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to me as clear as day. But this is the

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currency he deals with, right, It's all. It's an optics game,

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and he needs people on the internet spreading this message

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and manipulating and twisting public perception against real scientists, and

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against universities and against federal in institutions that regulate the

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private sector. Right, EPA and HHS. Right, we're going to

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talk about RFK in a minute. All of these institutions

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must be gutted, their ability to regulate the private sector

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rendered obsolete. That's the playbook essentially.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, as far as the power player with

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too much power, far too much power. I read in

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the Independent that Elon Musk has control over two thirds

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of the active satellites in space. Right now, I mean

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how much power and of course, many people are like, ah,

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you know, boy genius Elon Musk, and I'm just thinking, Jesus,

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you know really.

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Speaker 3: No, yeah, I mean Elon Is. It's like, I don't

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it's hard for me to comment on that guy because

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I don't really I'm not good with tex So it's

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like I don't understand what's on the horizon, and it's

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hard to get a read on him. I know that

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he's just interested in himself and ballooning his wealth and

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his influence, and the whole Doge debacle was a farce.

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And then it's been really hilarious watching the fallout between

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him and Trump on Twitter, and.

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Speaker 2: He's wanting to go to Mars for a while. I'm

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just like, folly, with so much suffering on this world,

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and he's like, well, now we need to go colonize Mars,

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and I'm like, well why not. You know, we colonized

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Earth and we totally fucked it up, so why don't

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we fix it here instead of looking at this Really,

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I think the physicist said this is just bullshit, this

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idea that humans are going to relocate. I know that's

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not your field either, but I wondered if you had

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an opinion about it.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I mean why not. I mean, sure, colonize Mars,

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set up a Mars base, and send people like, there's

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nothing wrong with space. Space colonization is cool and we

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should totally do it. But when this kind of rhetoric

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is being pushed by oligarchs that are part of this cabal,

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that are throttling any attempt at regulation of fossil fuels,

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this is all activity that is ruining Earth and ruining

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human society. So you can, on the one hand, be like, oh,

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we needed this escape patch. We're going to go live

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in Mars because everything is going to be bad here,

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when you're the people who are ruining it here, you're

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specifically the ones that are making it impossible to institute

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regulations to save the climate, and just in general, are

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worsening wealth inequality. So it's not like he obviously wants

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to make it sound like he's a champion of the people,

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but it's he's just the richest guy alive trying to

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get way richer by whatever means possible.

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Speaker 2: So, okay, you mentioned the actor Terrence Howard. Oh, he's

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a piece of work. Yeah, he's on rogue and he

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now he's he's been in some amazing films like Prisoners

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and the first Iron Man film. But he also said

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he could build the Milky Way galaxy with gravity and

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a bunch of just wacky stuff with me about it,

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Terrence Howard, would you?

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Speaker 3: Terrence Howard is a genuinely mentally ill, delusional narcissist to

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his convinced himself he's the greatest genius in human history

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and has revolutionized physics and mathematics and chemistry and all

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this stuff. And I think he really believes it on

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some level. And so he had a moment of virality

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about a year ago, and I kind of usurped it.

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I took advantage of it and got my own little

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viral moment because I've done a few pieces on him,

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but the first one that I did based on his

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first Rogan appearance. I don't think Rogan will touch him

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anymore because the backlash has been, like, dude, what is

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going on? Like who is falling for this stuff? But

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he's just completely insane, spew's utter nonsense word salad with

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science buzzwords that he does not he doesn't know what

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they mean, and pretends to be a genius. And it's

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interesting because The second piece I did on him was

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when Eric Eric Weinstein went on Rogan with Terrence to

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talk about all this stuff that Terrence says, and it's

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fascinating because they're basically the same, except that Eric knows

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what he's talking about a lot more than Terrence does.

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Obviously he understands math, but they're both just trying their

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hardest to sound intelligent to generate a cult following. They're

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exactly the same in their intent, and they're relying on

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the same anti establishment, anti academia narrative. So my second

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piece was dunking on Terrence and more, but also dunking

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on Eric trying to navigate this terrain of simultaneously putting

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himself way above Terrence, which he is, but also lambasting

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the academic community. How dare they? How dare Neil deGrasse

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Tyson insult Terrence by responding with this very polite video

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response critiquing his gibberish. You know, how dare they ice

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him out of peer review? Peer review? The guy can't

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do second grade math, Like, what do you mean peer review?

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There's nothing to talk about here, so it's just a

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it's a weird Yeah, I mean, Rogan in general, it's

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just a complete circus side.

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Speaker 2: He's just having conversations and you and I bang our

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heads against the wall. You know, you talk about these

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PhD types, which brings me into the Discovery Institute. And

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these aren't people who like Ken Hoven got his degree

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from a shack in Colorado, Right, I mean you got

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Steven Meyer, you got doctor Michael Beahey, you got Demski

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and a few others. You don't see them in peer review,

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but you certainly do see them online and they're writing

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and selling their books, etc. You have spoken about often

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the Discovery institutes. You want to tell everybody what the

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issue is there.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, Eric Weinstein is to Terrence Howard, as Meyer

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and be He and those guys are to Kent Hovind. Right,

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you have your bottom level raving lunatics that most people

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can tell are full of shit. But then you have

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this elevated version where look at me, I'm dressed a

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certain way and I'm speaking very clearly in a scholarly

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sounding manner. And yeah there's you know, oh, there's problems

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with evolution, and the evolutionists don't want us. There's corruption

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in the journals, and so we can't publish in the

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peer review because it goes against the orthodoxy of the

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othern No, it's just bullshit. You're just lying, but you're

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doing so with this terminology that is difficult to penetrate, right,

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Whereas Kent hovind, if you got to be or better

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in ninth grade biology, you can go, well, that sounds ridiculous.

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With the Discovery Institute stuff, you have to have a

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certain level of understanding of whatever topic they're lying about,

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and they lie about molecular biology, anthropology, geology, all of it. Right,

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And so I've definitely made quite a stir with them.

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I'm kind of on a my face is on a

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dartboard over there somewhere, because I just have taken them

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to tasks so hard. I have an entire series where

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I just go down the roster and nail every single

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one of them and just very undeniably, here's what they say,

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the paper says, Here's what the paper actually says. Here's

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the primary author of that paper acknowledging that they're lying

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about his paper, just really very clearly outlining how everything

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they say is a lie and outlining the agenda. Right,

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it's there. They work for wealthy Christian nationalists. The idea

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is to get religion taught in public schools as a

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move towards the erosion of separation of church and state.

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Very nasty, theocratic intent type stuff, which is very much

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in line with the move towards fascism that we're seeing

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from this administration.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was given I don't know, people give

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you books, because people like to give me books. They're like,

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here's a book. Just read all of this and we'll

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explain why you're wrong kind of thing. And I think

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one of the more memorable ones I was given the

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book The Dawkins Delusion by Alistair McGrath and I ask, okay, fine,

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what's the angle? What's the book saying? I said, well,

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I haven't actually read it, but I know that it's true, right,

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And so they gave it to me. And then I

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was given Stephen Meyer's signature in the cell saying that well,

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within our very cellular structure, there is evidence that an

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intelligence put it all together. Are you familiar with the book?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I did a piece out in ninety minute piece

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on Meyer and went through his books. He has one

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that's mainly on the Cambrian explosion, where he lies all

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about that and then signature in the cell is just

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him fumbling high school level genetics concepts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let me throw another name out, another entertainer, comedy,

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And of course we want to congratulate Russell Brand on

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his recent conversion to Christianity. Oh you you want to

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talk about Russell Brand and what the hell's going.

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Speaker 3: On Russell Brand. It's very easy to explain. The right

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wing is a haven for sexual abusers, pedophiles, all that

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kind of stuff. He got caught with a lot of

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sexual abuse allegations. He's been a cheeky, naughty little monkey

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for quite some time. And yeah, I kind of caught

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up to him, and so he pivoted to become an

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alt right grifter and now he's selling magic healing amulets

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and he converted to Christianity to really drive it home.

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And now he's just some jerk with a podcast that

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spews conservative talking points, all kinds of anti vax crap

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and is now like pro Trump and everything, and it's really.

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Speaker 2: Come on, come on, Dave. I mean, he met Jesus,

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he was baptized last year in the River Thames. It's

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almost like someone a murderer or you know, someone guilty

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of domestic abuse or some heinous crime, and they go

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to prison and they find Jesus, and then that's the

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story they tell the parole board. That's the vibe I get.

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Speaker 3: Dave pretty much that, Yeah, like, look at how this

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fabricated morality to divert, to distract from all of the

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blatantly immoral things that I do.

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Speaker 2: Still to common Dave. For Reena, I'm going to get

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into Bill Maher, Piers Morgan and a few other gems

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out there, and we'll talk about some other stuff as well.

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There are several free thought events lined up up for

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the remaining months of twenty twenty five. I'm going to

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be at a few, but not all of these in

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London on the first of October, the Effect of Apostasy

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on Mental Health event that's going to be at the

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Convent Garden Community Center. I'm going to be at the

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Capitol Steps in Sacramento, California, as part of California Free

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Thought Day the weekend of October eleventh. The Freedom from

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Religion National Convention is October seventeenth through nineteenth. I'm in

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Albuquerque October twenty fifth and Denver December sixth. You can

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just go and click on all the links and details

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at the Thinkingatheist dot com slash events. I'm speaking here

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with science educator Dave Farina. You produced a video called

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the Grifter Tier List. Who's the biggest scumbag I've debunked? Now?

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I'll admit I just saw the title and didn't have

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time to watch the video before we chatted today. You

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want to spoil it for me? I mean, who's the

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bottom of the barrel for you? Right now?

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Speaker 3: Give you the number one? Yeah, I went through the

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whole list. I realized after the fact and from a

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lot of comments that I actually missed like five people.

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I thought I went through the list and got everybody,

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but no, it was a resounding win for Andrew Wakefield.

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Andrew Wakefield is the biggest piece of shit I've ever debunked.

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That would be the one.

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Speaker 2: Now. This is the guy who is behind the pseudo

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documentary Vaxed? Is that right? Is it Wakefield or Malone?

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Speaker 3: No? No, I'm alone. Yeah, Wakefield had a hand in it.

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I think it was a Dell big tree. There was

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some people, a number of people cool.

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Speaker 2: I think it was Wakefield who was behind it. And

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it's a complete anti vax smear job on pretty much

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the entire scientific community. It's a horror.

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Speaker 3: Show, absolutely disgraceful. Yeah. I mean, what he's the most

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famous for is penning the late nineties study in the Lancet.

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It's the first attempt at the MMR vaccine autism link.

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So every time you hear people talking about vaccines causing autism,

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it all stems from this one fraudulent study. You had

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these injury lawyers that wanted an excuse to sue vaccine manufacturers,

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so they bribed this guy, Andrew Wakefield, he was a

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gastro entrologist, into making the study who was incredibly unethical

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lumbar punctures and all kinds of invasive procedures on children

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that were known to have autism prior to getting MMR fabricated.

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All the data just complete bullshit. Study was later retracted,

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but it stuck, and just decades later, he's still haralded

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as this champion, that whistle blowing hero that now is

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just yeah, he's just purely an anti vaxx character on

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the internet.

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Speaker 2: It's a lose lose because the more he's debunked, the

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more he's like the rogue whistleblower going up against the system.

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He's the hero we need. There's almost nothing you can

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do with that day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's that's obviously a valid point. I

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think that it just depends how thoroughly you eviscerate them.

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So I think that if you really really do a

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good job, the information gets out there, and then you

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have people that two things happen. Number One, you have

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people who are not familiar with what's going on, and

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they're ready to be influenced by whatever media they see.

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So you better make sure they see yours first and

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not theirs, because there's this manipulative and full of lies.

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So if they see mine first, they're inoculated, ironically to

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whatever they're going to see from them. And then number two,

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you arm the populace with the correct talking points and

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the correct way to rebut these ridiculous anti vax talking

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points so that they can have a small amount of

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influence in their personal circles, and you fight it on

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the ground, in the trenches, so to speak. But it

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has to be done. I mean, it's just you can't

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just do nothing, you know what I mean. I wrestle

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with this too, but doing nothing for so long is

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what got us to where we are. Today academics saying

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this is beneath me. I don't have to pay attention

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to this. This is just idiots raving on a street corner.

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It doesn't affect me. Yes, it does. Public perception of

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science and the resulting voting behavior that is tethered to

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a growing anti science mentality brought us the Trump administration,

430
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who was slashing funds for science across the board. The

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00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,200
ability to do science has been dramatically dampened, and it

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is specifically due to public perception of science. So you

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cannot be ignored. We have to be doing this. We

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have to be aggressively exposing these frauds, and I'm seeing

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in the past couple months this very slight shift in

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what I view to be the correct direction. I'm a

437
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bit biased because it's my way of doing it, but

438
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just every like it's epitomized by like the way Gavin

439
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,240
Newsom is trolling the hell out of Trump right now

440
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using his style of tweeting to what he say, just

441
00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:07,000
like the disgusting toxicity of these figures, it needs to

442
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be mirrored back to them. It needs to be reflected

443
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back to them. They need to be treated the way

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that they treat other people. So I've been doing that

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for a few years, and I'm starting to see a

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little bit of that kind of activity from others, and

447
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,599
they don't know what to do with it, right, they

448
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can't handle being treated that way. They're used to very

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you know, Oh, that's actually incorrect, because if you look

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at this paper, doesn't work. Doesn't that do anything?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: I like that. I mean, I think we call that

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demonstrating or exposing absurdity by being absurd, you know, I

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buy that. I also like the idea of pre bunking,

455
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not debunking. You get in front of it and you

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sort of prep people, give them a bullshit detection kits.

457
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I'm going to ask you. I brought a Robert Malone

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physician who has some very very problematic opinions on COVID

459
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and the COVID vaccine. I don't understand this, but Malone

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had said vaccines, damn it t cell responses and caused

461
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a form of AIDS. Can you tell me what that

462
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means and whether it's right or wrong?

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Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't mean, I mean, it's just completely fabricated.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: He's this is a guy who got famous spreading the

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lie on podcasts that he developed the mRNA vaccines. No,

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he didn't. The people who did won a bunch of

468
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,160
awards for that because they saved millions of lives. He

469
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:33,000
had some very tangential affiliation with some research that had

470
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:36,720
something to do with mRNA, but he absolutely did not

471
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:40,119
develop these vaccines. He's just another lying fraud going on

472
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,839
the podcast circuit, pretending to be a whistleblower, and the

473
00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:47,680
establishment is silencing me. And no, it's just a bunch

474
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,759
of bullshit to generate this cult following.

475
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 2: That's it, which brings me back to vaccines, which means

476
00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:58,039
RFK Junior. I spoke to cell biologist doctor Ken Miller

477
00:26:58,079 --> 00:27:00,839
about RFK. I don't want to cover too much familiar ground,

478
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,079
but I can't ask I can't not ask you about

479
00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:08,559
RFKA Junior and the war on science and scientists and

480
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:13,000
the unbelievable everest sized mountain of bullshit that he has

481
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,200
been spreading. Yeah, he's getting people. I think he's getting

482
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,640
people killed. You know not he will, but I think

483
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:19,920
it's already happening. What are your.

484
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:25,079
Speaker 3: Thoughts already happening? The magnitude of the layoffs at CDC, FDA,

485
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,039
it's insane. He's just getting rid of anybody that has

486
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,279
any intellectual integrity and is going to stand in the

487
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:35,480
way of his state sanctioned pseudoscience. He got rid of

488
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,440
the entire Vaccine Safety Panel, filled it with Robert Malone

489
00:27:39,519 --> 00:27:42,440
and these other guys that are just anti vaxxers, just

490
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,880
like the EPA is now full of climate change deniers.

491
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:45,079
Speaker 1: Right.

492
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: It's just this insane situation of the Trump administration where

493
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,799
everybody in every department is directly antithetical to the purpose

494
00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:54,519
of that department. So the Vaccine Safety Panel is full

495
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:59,039
of anti vaxers, which means they no longer recommend certain vaccines.

496
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,400
And if those vaccines are not officially recommended by the

497
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,000
federal institution, then certain programs that previously offered those vaccines

498
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:10,400
for free to low income children because they're recommended by

499
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,720
the government are no longer able to provide them. Right,

500
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:17,000
So poor kids cannot get these vaccines that they were

501
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,039
supposed to get before going to school, can't get them anymore,

502
00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:23,480
and so people will die. Children will die, no two

503
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:26,400
ways about it. And this is not new Blood is

504
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,000
already on his hands. There was a measles outbreak in

505
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,119
Samoa not too long less than a decade ago, eighty

506
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,920
three people dead. All his fault. He went over there,

507
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:38,440
met with anti vaccine activists, convinced everybody that there was

508
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,079
an issue with a batch of vaccines fueled vaccine hesitancy,

509
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:46,400
big measles outbreak, eighty three people dead. His fault. He

510
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,480
murdered those people. So it's he's ramping up to do

511
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:50,839
it here.

512
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,279
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on the claim that COVID is

513
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,599
just a big money maker for the hospitals, You know,

514
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,119
the hospitals they're calling everything cod so that they can

515
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,440
fill their pockets and big pharma and all of that.

516
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:05,759
Do you want to speak to that at all?

517
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:09,319
Speaker 3: I mean, how are you gonna, like, how are you

518
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,000
going to pull off a conspiracy like that, a global

519
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:17,680
conspiracy every single healthcare provider in every single country. Like

520
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:20,480
what degree are we talking here? Like the bottom of

521
00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:23,039
the ladder is that COVID doesn't even exist, so that

522
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,839
viruses don't even exist, if you want to go higher,

523
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,960
and okay, they're calling it COVID and it's not. I mean,

524
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,599
you can come up with a conspiracy like that about

525
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,799
absolutely anything. At what point do we just go, look,

526
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,880
viruses exist, pandemics exist, they happen, this is a pandemic

527
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,640
that happened and a bunch of people died. Why is

528
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,920
that such a hard pill for people to swallow?

529
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: Now, it's almost like flat Earth, right, you think about

530
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,680
the magnitude of the conspiracy. The implication is like the

531
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:53,039
entire airline industry would have to be in on the

532
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:58,920
cover up, all world governments, every space agency, meteorology. I mean,

533
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,119
the idea that they're all sitting in a star chamber

534
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,640
twirling their mustaches fooling the rest of it is so

535
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,680
unbelievably bad, shit crazy.

536
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, the number of people instant that are behind it

537
00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:15,039
are outnumber the mark. Right, You've got six billion people

538
00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:16,960
in on it and two billion that are you know,

539
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
it's like it just completely unravels. I don't know what

540
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:20,599
to do with it.

541
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,319
Speaker 2: So anti vacs Bill Maher. Now, Dave, you know, I

542
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,319
used to think Bill Maher was Okay. I never really

543
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,839
you know, followed him, but I watched Religious and I

544
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:34,319
know it's nice to see him go hard at religion

545
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,799
until he got into the Jesus Horus connection and it

546
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,319
was totally a lazy overreach. And then I started to

547
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,160
like raise an eyebrow. Hey wait a minute, maybe he's

548
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,759
not doing his due diligence, and then he's fallen for

549
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,680
some bad shit stuff out there. You want to talk

550
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,480
about Bill Maher, I mean, now he's out there banging

551
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,400
his drums, you know.

552
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bill Maher sucks a lot. I mean yeah, like

553
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:58,839
he's okay, riligulous, Like, okay, let's give him a point

554
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,880
for figuring out that fundamentalist religion is stupid. Congratulations, you're

555
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,079
as smart as an average twelve year old, intelligent twelve

556
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:10,039
year old, Like, it's not that hard to figure out

557
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,000
that fundamentalist religion is stupid. He's been a smug douche

558
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:16,240
for a long time, but it's gotten way worse than

559
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:20,039
the past three years. He's gotten way anti woke. He's

560
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:23,680
just completely fallen for that whole movement. And he's also

561
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,759
gigantic Zionist piece of shit. So I don't know if

562
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:28,599
you want to get into that, but sure.

563
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,279
Speaker 2: Like Israel at all costs kind of thing, right, Yeah,

564
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:34,359
what Netanyahu does, he must be supported, right.

565
00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's just way pro Israel, which is absolutely indefensible.

566
00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:43,000
I mean it's been indefensible since Israel formed, but especially

567
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,240
I think through the current genocide. I think in the

568
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:50,519
first six months or so, people who were not educated

569
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,039
about the history of Israel and the history of the

570
00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:56,240
subjugation of the Palestini people and the occupation and everything,

571
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,720
didn't know and were thus privy to Israeli propaganda. And

572
00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:02,559
so I want to have a little bit of sympathy

573
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:04,599
and let them have had a little bit of time

574
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,839
to come around. But today, if you're pro is Real today,

575
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,480
get the fuck out of here, Like, what are you doing.

576
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:13,200
You've had this long, You've had almost two years now

577
00:32:13,559 --> 00:32:17,279
to just take thirty seconds of your time and go look.

578
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,160
Go look at what's happening in Gaza. Go follow any

579
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,599
gods and journalists. Look at all of the images and

580
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,599
videos of all the blown up children, all the hospitals

581
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:30,079
blown up, all the journalists murdered, everything that's happening, the

582
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:33,440
starvation that's happening. Now, if you're still pro is Real today,

583
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,799
you have no excuse. Bill Maher has no excuse, and

584
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,200
he should just be mocked until the end of time,

585
00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:42,279
mainly for his Zionism, but also secondarily for all this

586
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,759
anti woke bullshit that he peddles.

587
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:48,799
Speaker 2: Dave Farina and I have this in common, for better

588
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,920
or worse, We both appeared recently on Piers Morgan. Now,

589
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,599
Dave I was contacted because Peers wanted to talk about

590
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,720
the Shroud of Tour and he had a couple of pahds, right,

591
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:02,799
and so he had one it was a first century

592
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,359
This has all been miracle. There was divine light that

593
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,279
burned the image and ooh ah, and here's a crucifixion,

594
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:10,759
spike and buy my book. And then there was another

595
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:12,920
PhD who was like, well, that's a bunch of bullshit.

596
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,200
This is almost certainly medieval era human made. This is

597
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,519
not the miracle. Even though I believe in Janie was

598
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:20,839
a Christian. He's like, even though I believe in God,

599
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,440
the Christian God, the shroud is bullshit. Something else. And

600
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,839
then they're like, well, let's they must have googled atheist

601
00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:29,880
and they're like, hey, you want to come join, and

602
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,559
they promised equal times. So I got four minutes at

603
00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:36,160
the end, And mostly, I mean, I'm not qualified. I'm

604
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,720
not an expert in medieval times. I don't know first

605
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:42,400
century history in that way. I'm not a carbon dating expert.

606
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,279
But I do talk Jesus a lot, so that was

607
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:49,279
mostly my angle. But I'm not a Peers Morgan fan.

608
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,359
I mostly went because I was invited. It's a platform,

609
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,000
it's a chance to sort of antibs the conversation. You're

610
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,559
not a Peers Morgan fan either, right.

611
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: No, I would not say I'm a fan. It's very

612
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,200
interesting because I was so okay. It's three times. Number one.

613
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,200
I was asked to go on to talk about the

614
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,119
Terrence Howard stuff with Eric Weinstein and a couple other people,

615
00:34:10,119 --> 00:34:11,800
and then I was dropped at the last minute. I

616
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,119
believe I can't prove it, but I think Eric Weinstein

617
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,119
was like, get rid of this guy. The second time,

618
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,079
I was asked to come on to talk about some

619
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,280
trans stuff, but I had a conflict and so I

620
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,840
had to decline. But then this time they actually asked

621
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,639
me for the Shroud of tourn They said, we want

622
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:27,840
you either for the RFK one or the Shroud of Turin,

623
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,239
and like you, I was like, well, look, strout of turn,

624
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,800
it's bullshit. We carbon dated it to like twelve hundred

625
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,679
or something like that. But I don't have like I

626
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,280
didn't know, and they always contact you like can we

627
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,800
do it in two hours from now, and so I'm like,

628
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,960
I don't have time to like go figure out all

629
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,360
the bullshit everyone is saying about the Shroud of Turin today.

630
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,760
So no to that, but yes to RFK because I

631
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,360
just a month or two ago did a very long,

632
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,960
like two hour RFK piece going into all of his bullshit.

633
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,719
So I was like, I'm ready to go on that one.

634
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:58,280
Let's do it.

635
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: That shows you, by the way, why I'm rightly lower

636
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,840
in the hierarchy. They're probably a dozen other names under

637
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,960
yours before they got to me, and it was it

638
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:08,719
was like, hey, we're on at noon, can you go

639
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:09,199
right now?

640
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: And hotly shit, I'm always just like could you give

641
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:15,039
me forty eight hours? Like I just it would be

642
00:35:15,159 --> 00:35:18,079
nice to like because it's weird, like I don't know

643
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:19,840
how you feel. I don't actually don't know what you're

644
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,760
exect If your precise expertise is more philosophy or history

645
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,159
or anything like that. Mine is chemistry. But I'm a

646
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,800
generalist and so I make content on a lot of

647
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,760
stuff like archaeology and things like that. So if somebody

648
00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:34,199
actually I forgot they contacted me another time to talk

649
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,400
about archaeology stuff, just because I had a semi viral

650
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:40,719
peace debunking Graham Hancock and his Loser Accolytes, and I

651
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,320
was like, look, man, I'm not an archaeologist. I made

652
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,639
a great piece. That's a great you know, a bit

653
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:48,679
of content for people to get educated from. But I'm

654
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:51,440
not going to be the guy. So I sent him.

655
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,519
I said, why don't you talk to Flint Dibble and

656
00:35:53,559 --> 00:35:56,360
Milo Rossi and so they actually went on for that segment.

657
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,119
I sent it over there. But yeah, you're right, like

658
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:01,760
they don't know who knows what. They're just contacting anybody

659
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,719
with a certain level of following, and like you want

660
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,599
to do it, we don't care if you're prepared or not.

661
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,400
We don't care if you knock it out of the

662
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,719
park or humiliate yourself. We're just filling the segment. So

663
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,239
you know, either way, if you kill it, you great views.

664
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,159
If you tank great views for like, it doesn't matter

665
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:17,559
to them.

666
00:36:17,639 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 2: So it was you know, my angle was in my

667
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,320
wheelhouse is counter apologetics, specifically in relation to Christianity. I'm

668
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,320
an expangelical and I've done sixteen years of this type

669
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,639
of stuff. We can get into Jesus. Let's talk Jesus.

670
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,880
So rather than focus on the shroud, you know, hey,

671
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,800
we'd like to talk about the magical cave cloth. I

672
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,000
was like, well, hang on, let's talk about the myth

673
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:43,440
that the whole cave cloth story is built on, and

674
00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:46,400
let's talk about the Bible that presents that story. And

675
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,880
so I actually went back to more of a root thing,

676
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:52,480
and you know, that was my wheelhouse, and I think

677
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,719
that was the more productive place to go. Oh, this

678
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,239
piece of cloth is magical. Is not that interesting to me.

679
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,480
But Peers himself, his history is so problematic. He's so tabloidy.

680
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:07,199
I debated, but you know, I couldn't say no for

681
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,639
a few reasons. So I don't know Pierre's Morgan.

682
00:37:11,079 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 3: I mean, you're right, like he is problematic, and it's

683
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,159
just interesting, Like it's been fascinating to see him flip

684
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,920
on Israel because at first he was all, do you

685
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,519
condemn mamas? Do you condemn mamas? Do you condemn mamas?

686
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:27,199
Every ten seconds? And now he's like very anti Israel,

687
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,639
he's very pro pouse signed. But it's totally for optics,

688
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:34,639
Like he watched the optics flip on the conflict and

689
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,559
was like, that's the winning side. Now I'm gonna voice that.

690
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,400
So it's like, on the one hand, purely in terms

691
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,239
of optics. Great, one more person taking Israel to task,

692
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,239
but it's so seedy the way that he does it.

693
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:49,559
But in general, my view of it is the same

694
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,039
as like if, like Joe Rogan knows who I am.

695
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:55,159
He mentioned my name on an episode once, and so

696
00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:56,639
people were like, do you think he'll invite you on?

697
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,880
I'm like, I don't think he will, but would you

698
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,400
go on if he did. I'm like, you know, I would,

699
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,239
like I will. I did go on Piers Morgan. I

700
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
would go on Joe Rogan. I would go on these

701
00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:10,119
because whether you want it to exist or not, the

702
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:13,360
platform exists and it has the influence that it does

703
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:15,880
whether you go on it or not, and so you

704
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,559
have an opportunity to prepare thoroughly and go on that

705
00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:24,199
platform and make it bend to your agenda what you

706
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,719
want to do with that access, with that reach. And

707
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,000
so that's my view of it. It doesn't have to

708
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,320
be viewed as like I'm supporting the Piers Morgan platform.

709
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,800
It's I'm accessing his audience and the eyeballs that he

710
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,440
has access to to say the facts that I need

711
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:41,639
to get to these people.

712
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, you get the Joe Rogan ies in this

713
00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:47,039
disinformation silo. It may be the only chance they have

714
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:51,159
to be presented with contrary ideas. Os case, I go

715
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,719
hard after Fox News And I used to be that guy.

716
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,119
I was a rush, lamball and culter Fox News er

717
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,719
back in my day. Wow, And of course now I

718
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,639
go I go hard at Fox and they're like, well,

719
00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:04,159
the Fox News for some reason was to invite you

720
00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:09,239
to appear, would you do it? And I'm like, hell yeah,

721
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,599
I mean as long as I could say what I

722
00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:13,079
wanted to say. And my first question would be why

723
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:16,280
are you guys, dear leader State Television. That would be

724
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,159
a refreshing thing for the Fox viewership to hear. They

725
00:39:19,199 --> 00:39:21,719
might send me a pipe bomb, but I think it

726
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,639
has to be said.

727
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, mix it up, go on there, blow it

728
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,920
up from the inside. Just dismantle whatever platform you'll give

729
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,480
it an access to go on it and do what

730
00:39:31,559 --> 00:39:33,320
you want to do, do what you have to do

731
00:39:33,559 --> 00:39:34,119
with it. Yeah.

732
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: Do you ever watch Pete Budaesesh, Guy's a master. Every

733
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,679
time they try to push him into a corner or

734
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,920
ambush him, he just he devastates them, and he does

735
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,039
so with such an even voice. It's masterful.

736
00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I very quickly was like, oh, you're my number

737
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,519
two after Bernie. He's he's a smart guy. Yeah.

738
00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: My final segment with science educator Dave Farina, as we

739
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,760
talk about trans issues, the woke religion, and the transphobes

740
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,800
and all of these other hot button terms being grenaded

741
00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:12,719
at each other. Holy snikes. Let's talk about the science

742
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:22,400
of trans with Dave Farina. Next. Talking here with science

743
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:28,880
educator and host of Professor Dave explains on YouTube Dave Farina, So,

744
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,320
you mentioned trans issues and the biology of transgenderism. This

745
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,639
is a hot button even within the free thought community.

746
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:38,760
I've seen people who were like, it's the religion of

747
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,360
trans or the religion of woke or the anti woke,

748
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,760
or you're a transphobe, and everybody's throwing out these things.

749
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,320
I know there are some out there who are navigating

750
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:52,480
what is uncharted territory and they genuinely don't know what

751
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:56,639
to think. So you tell me, as far as an

752
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,119
educator goes, how would you explain transgender to people who

753
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:04,559
were curious about whether or not it's science or anti science.

754
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is one of the pier segments. As

755
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:09,920
I was responding to the fallout of the freedom from

756
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,920
Religion Foundation debacle with Richard Dawkins, Jerry Coin, Stephen Pinker,

757
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:19,400
who unfortunately represent the part of the intelligentsia that is

758
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,519
swinging this anti anti woke way, pseudo scientific way.

759
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I may quickly doctor. Jerry Coin, the evolutionary biologist,

760
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:33,960
had written a piece that was signal boosted by f

761
00:41:34,119 --> 00:41:36,280
fr RAF at the time, which I think they apologized

762
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,079
for afterwards. But he said biology is not big a tree,

763
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,400
and he was blasted, and then a bunch of the

764
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,719
eight tier freethinker types came forward and they stood with

765
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,760
him resigned from the board. It was a big blow up, yes,

766
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,440
and everybody shouting at each other over it. So I'm sorry,

767
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,440
I'll take it from there if you want day. Yeah.

768
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 3: So I made a whole piece on exactly this. It

769
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,280
was called more Things that I was supposed to say

770
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,800
on Piers Morgan because the first time I got booted

771
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,199
from the segment. The second time I had a conflict.

772
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,039
But I made a piece here this is what I

773
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,760
would have said if I was on talking to Jerry

774
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,159
Coin about all of this bullshit. Yeah, there's just this

775
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:19,639
very insidious the right is using transissues to polarize people,

776
00:42:19,679 --> 00:42:22,480
to the right by offering these ridiculous straw men of

777
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:25,360
like liberals think men can have babies and they don't.

778
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,639
There's twenty seven genders or whatever. The hell has nothing

779
00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:30,719
to do with any of that. All we're saying is

780
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,079
that there is sex, and there's gender identity. Sex refers

781
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:37,320
to a suite of biological characteristics. It is definitely, First

782
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,480
of all, it's not binary. They like to say that

783
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,119
it's just game meats. Right, you got sperm or egg.

784
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,440
Well that doesn't work because prepubescent boys don't produce sperm.

785
00:42:46,519 --> 00:42:49,119
So are they not male until they produce? Right? There's

786
00:42:49,159 --> 00:42:51,880
all these kinds of logical gaps in this kind of thinking.

787
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:58,800
So sex refers to game meats, gonadal apparatus, hormones, sex chromosomes,

788
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,719
different primary and secondary sexual characteristics. It's this suite of characteristics.

789
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,800
And then gender identity is a neuro anatomical construct. There

790
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,559
is such a thing as experiencing being male or female.

791
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,280
It is correlated with specific brain structures. Now I get

792
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,679
hit all the time just because I reference primary scientific

793
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,159
literature that is investigating this. It doesn't mean that we

794
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,719
have this like overarching, very solid comprehension of it. But

795
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,360
we have identified regions of the brain that correlate with

796
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,840
gender identity and sexuality. There's often overlap there, but they

797
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,360
are two different phenomena. And so that's being trans is

798
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,480
when your sex and gender identity do not align. That's all.

799
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,760
So when you have a transwoman, let's say that is

800
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,639
the vernacular that we have developed to refer to somebody

801
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,599
that is of was born of male sex, but has

802
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,000
female gender identity. We refer to them as a trans

803
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:54,960
because the sex and gender identity do not align, and

804
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,679
then we refer to them as trans women as a

805
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,840
courtesy to dignify them. Right, So, if it's a linguistic thing,

806
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,960
it's never the case that conservatives acknowledge what I just

807
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,800
said about male sex, female gender identity, but let's not

808
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,679
call them trans women. It's always just, ah, you don't

809
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,079
under you're denying biology and all this stuff. It's absolutely

810
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:17,800
other case. They just don't. They just absolutely want to

811
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,119
stick to this third grade understanding of boyce, penis, girls,

812
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,840
vagina and refuse to look at any of the science

813
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,840
that is referenced and just continue going, Ah, you think

814
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,400
men can have babies, which men? What are you talking about?

815
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,079
Are you talking about cis men because no nobody has

816
00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:35,599
ever said that. Are you talking about trans women, because

817
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:37,840
no nobody has ever said that. Are you talking about

818
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,039
trans men? Yes, they can because they have uteruses, because

819
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:44,159
they're a female sex. So it's just always it's nothing

820
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:48,880
but distortion, completely bad faith, absolutely refusing to engage with

821
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:52,639
any of the commentary on the side of science. And

822
00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:56,599
then they hide behind, unfortunately figures like Dawkins and Coin

823
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,360
who have sort of fallen for this anti woke fad

824
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,519
and they go, see, look the biologists agree with us. Yeah,

825
00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:05,599
they just don't. They're just really old and cantankris and

826
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,440
refuse to learn something new. That's all it is.

827
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:13,559
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry you have joined the religion of woke. Yeah,

828
00:45:13,559 --> 00:45:16,039
that's usually what I see in the comments section exactly.

829
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,000
That's an argument or something. I'm like, well, first define woke,

830
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:21,840
because that's informdly the jello that you can nail to

831
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,400
the wall or something like that.

832
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 3: They just shit their pants and have nothing to say

833
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:30,519
every time. Nobody can define woke, No conservative can define woke.

834
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:32,960
You can humiliate them every time, no fail.

835
00:45:33,039 --> 00:45:35,599
Speaker 2: It's the boogeyman of the twenty first century. It's the

836
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,119
equivalent in some ways of when it came to gay

837
00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:41,760
rights and they were like, well, what's next. Identical sex

838
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,360
with animals. You know, that was the first place that

839
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,000
conservatives went right.

840
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,639
Speaker 3: One hundred percent identical. And nobody has learned their lesson

841
00:45:48,679 --> 00:45:52,480
because in the seventies or seventies eighties kind of when

842
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,719
people were like, oh, like, it's not a mental illness,

843
00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:59,840
it's a way that you can be Some people are

844
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,440
attract most people are attracted to the opposite sex. Some

845
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,920
people are attracted to the same sex. And by the way,

846
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:08,800
just like everything else in biology, it's a spectrum. There

847
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,920
are various gradations of bisexuality and so forth, and asexuality

848
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,239
and whatever. And nobody learned their lesson on the right.

849
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:20,280
Nobody can has the foresight to go, oh that again,

850
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,599
but with a different thing. Nobody can do it. So

851
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:25,039
it's really frustrating.

852
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,199
Speaker 2: You know, people want everything to fit in a box,

853
00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:30,360
and then they either worship the box or crush the box.

854
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: Right.

855
00:46:31,119 --> 00:46:35,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's this very childlike insistence on everything fitting this

856
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,800
binary mode. So going back to sex, right, they'll say

857
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,079
sex is binary, Well, no it isn't, because look, you

858
00:46:41,159 --> 00:46:44,280
have all these different characteristics and most of them don't

859
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,639
know that these conditions exist where you can have x

860
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,679
y sex chromosomes but express female genitals, or xx chromosomes

861
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,239
and express male genitals, and so it's like you have

862
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,400
these different characteristics that are associated with male or female

863
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,719
and they don't align. Binary code is zero and one,

864
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,519
not a half or three quarters or one point two

865
00:47:04,679 --> 00:47:08,239
seven zero in one two states. You do not have

866
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,679
that with sex because it refers to this suite of

867
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,679
biological characteristics that do not always align. So it definitively

868
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,480
is not binary. And everybody who pretends that it's game

869
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:21,519
meats only that determine sex, you are wrong. I'm sorry.

870
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:24,360
If you remove a woman's ovaries, there's still a woman.

871
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,920
If you a prepebestent boy that's not producing sperm, still male.

872
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,559
It is not sufficient. It is not sufficient to look

873
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:33,800
at game meats alone to define sex. That's not how

874
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,599
we do it. It's a suite of characteristics.

875
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 2: So well, speaking about you know, the fears, I was

876
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,960
in a fear of everything, and we were afraid of

877
00:47:41,039 --> 00:47:43,840
trans people, we were afraid of foreigners, we were afraid

878
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,159
of Muslims. We were afraid. You know, don't don't shake

879
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,920
hands with a gay person or you know, be in

880
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,039
their vicinity because you've never known they might turn you

881
00:47:54,159 --> 00:47:56,280
gay by osmosis kind of thing.

882
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:57,599
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So.

883
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: That's just a culture.

884
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,559
Speaker 3: Culture has been around for a long time and pervades

885
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:04,039
to the stick.

886
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: Teachers are allowing kids to shit in litter boxes in

887
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:12,039
high school bathrooms. It's just a crazy world day. Before

888
00:48:12,039 --> 00:48:14,199
I let you go, I got it. Let's just talk

889
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,960
like real people, as if we haven't already been doing that.

890
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:20,679
I'm I'm not a pessimist. I'd like to think I'm

891
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,920
kind of a realist, but I've harbored hope. I used

892
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,639
to think, you know, things are you know, there are

893
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:31,559
people out there who were like me that were brainwashed.

894
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,000
They were in disinformation silos. They have not had the

895
00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:38,320
benefit of what has been called the knowledge economy. They

896
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,400
just need a chance. Good people can have bad ideas.

897
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,880
I've been that guy. I want to be that guy.

898
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,320
But I will make a confession to you that I

899
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,280
look after ten years of the insanity and the cruelty

900
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,199
and the horribleness that's going on, I will admit that

901
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,840
in that dark space when nobody's looking, what I'm thinking

902
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,159
is these people are fucking stupid and they're not reachable.

903
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:06,360
I don't know what, Yeah, don't know. I be my bartender, Dave,

904
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,199
I mean, what do you think?

905
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,039
Speaker 3: I mean? Look, I'm with you on it. Unfortunately, I

906
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,320
have gotten significantly more pessimistic over the past five years

907
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,199
or so. And it's not so much like, yes, people

908
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,280
are stupid and many of them are unreachable. But it's

909
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,840
not so much how stupid they are, it's more how

910
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:34,679
insidious and unrelenting the propaganda is. Right, if it weren't

911
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,679
for that, I think they would be reachable. I think

912
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,679
they could be reasoned with, and I think that we

913
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,920
would see a very slow progress towards rationality. But they

914
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,239
are just getting slammed every day with more and more

915
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:54,159
sophisticated tech bro fueled, technocrat fueled, deliberate disinformation that is

916
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,840
aimed at manipulating the public. And it's only going to

917
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,440
get worse with AI and deep fakes, And what Musk

918
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,840
has turned Twitter into is just this like disinformation central

919
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:11,599
paradise for spreading wise on the Internet, and it's just

920
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,880
so like it's not it's not an even match. It's

921
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,239
not an even match between the front the liars and

922
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,320
the truth tellers. Right. We're on this side where we're

923
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,400
just like making YouTube videos and trying to reason with people.

924
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,559
The other side is billionaires constructing social media landscapes that

925
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:36,480
are just completely aimed at ruining epistemology and making it

926
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:38,599
impossible for people to know what the hell is going on,

927
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,280
and it's going to get worse.

928
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: Well, I look forward to the day that somebody at

929
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,199
the Discovery Institute, or I don't know, just somebody on

930
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,559
TikTok makes a deep fake of you admitting that intelligent

931
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:54,159
design was rid all along. I mean, this is the

932
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:57,199
world we live in right where the post truth era.

933
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 3: It is the post truth era, and we are we

934
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:06,360
are not. The tunnel is dark, but you are a light.

935
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: In that tunnel. Do you see how I brought us

936
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,440
full search trying to be trying to how do people

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00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,639
find you and your work? Before I let you go,

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00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,960
Professor Dave explains on YouTube. That's about it, all right,

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00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:20,119
Dave Riena, thanks for us spending almost an hour I

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00:51:20,119 --> 00:51:23,119
don't know, inventing humoring me anyway. It's always a pleasure

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00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:23,960
to hang out here to do it.

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00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: It's cathartic.

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00:51:24,519 --> 00:51:26,039
Speaker 2: All right, We'll talk again.

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00:51:26,079 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 3: Man, sounds good.

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00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,559
Speaker 1: Thank you follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter

946
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,280
for a complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like

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00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,679
mugs and t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links

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00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:41,519
to atheist pages and resources, and details on upcoming free

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00:51:41,519 --> 00:51:46,159
thought events and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist

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00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,360
dot com.