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<v Speaker 1>This is pod Popular Podcast for the People, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Great Love Debate. It's Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a Great Love Debate.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi again, Everyone's Brian Howie.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's number one

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<v Speaker 1>dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I am once

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<v Speaker 1>again in the very fine studios of the Pod Popular

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast for the People. I am at the one in

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<v Speaker 1>Boca Raton, Florida. It is the hot of a Florida summer.

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<v Speaker 1>So do with that information whatever you like. I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>give you some aphrase. It's gonna be me today. It

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<v Speaker 1>probably won't be that long. It wasn't what I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, but it really something happened to me

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<v Speaker 1>over the weekend. I'm gonna explain it to you that

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh my god, I need to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about this. So you guys have heard me say many

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<v Speaker 1>many times, it's not that you haven't met the right person.

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<v Speaker 1>It's almost always that you haven't been the right person.

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<v Speaker 1>I am exhibit a of that. I probably was not

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<v Speaker 1>always the right person. There's a chance I might have

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<v Speaker 1>met a right person.

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<v Speaker 3>Eventually. I didn't meet the right person, but.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know it's just about who you are in

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<v Speaker 1>a moment and recognizing that we all sort of are

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<v Speaker 1>on a journey and we all have.

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<v Speaker 3>Work to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So this past weekend, my friend Jen, I will just

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<v Speaker 1>call her my friend Jen, who I have known a

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<v Speaker 1>long long time because we are not young anymore, and

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<v Speaker 1>she's a good friend of mine to this day, and

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<v Speaker 1>she's been a good friend of mine for a.

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<v Speaker 3>Little thirty years.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to date her back in the day and

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<v Speaker 1>she was rummaging through a box in her attic. I

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<v Speaker 1>think she was trying to find something, and she found

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<v Speaker 1>something and she sent it to me. She sent me

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<v Speaker 1>a f facts in nineteen ninety three. This is how

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<v Speaker 1>we communicated our intentions and our feelings back then. We

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<v Speaker 1>sent them by via facts nineteen ninety three, So of

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<v Speaker 1>the date of this recording over thirty years ago, and

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<v Speaker 1>I want to read the facts that she sent me,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm gonna get into why it's relevant to me,

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<v Speaker 1>Dear Brian. The last two weeks or so, my feelings

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<v Speaker 1>have been going up and down. Every time I feel

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<v Speaker 1>secure with my decision about us, someone changes my mind. Tonight,

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<v Speaker 1>I finally sat myself down to find a real conclusion.

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<v Speaker 1>The way I look at it is I think somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>deep inside you do love me. Even though we were

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<v Speaker 1>only together for a short time, I felt really close

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<v Speaker 1>to you. I can't just sit around a couch with

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<v Speaker 1>just anybody and be happy. Maybe it was not definitely love,

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<v Speaker 1>but there was something special between us. Everyone tells me

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<v Speaker 1>you were just feeding me lines, which is possible, but

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<v Speaker 1>I think under the Brian Howie that goes out every night,

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<v Speaker 1>there is much more sincere person with real feelings. Someday

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<v Speaker 1>you'll be able to understand what is really important in life.

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<v Speaker 1>You have a lot of growing up to do, hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>before it is too late. The person that I think

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<v Speaker 1>you really are is much more desirable than the one

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<v Speaker 1>you present to the general public. I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>know that I really care about you. I think it

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<v Speaker 1>is best that I less things rest, and like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>when the dust settles, who knows. If things were really

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<v Speaker 1>meant to be, then they might find a way to

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<v Speaker 1>work through anything. And if they don't, they aren't then

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<v Speaker 1>at least I got to have memories of the experience

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<v Speaker 1>of dating Brian Howie. So first of all, she was

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<v Speaker 1>twenty years old when she was wise enough to stand

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<v Speaker 1>up for herself and say this me then.

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<v Speaker 3>Is not what I want.

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<v Speaker 1>And to tell you the truth, it was probably three

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<v Speaker 1>weeks of chicken fingers and mountain.

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<v Speaker 3>Dew and alcohol, and I don't remember much of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And like I said, she's my friend now, but the

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<v Speaker 1>point when she's dated me thirty years ago, it was a.

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<v Speaker 3>Bit of a blur. But I was so pleased that

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<v Speaker 3>she sent that, not that she kept it, but I.

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<v Speaker 1>Was like, oh my god, how many women could have

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<v Speaker 1>sent that exact same email to me.

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<v Speaker 3>Or facts.

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<v Speaker 1>Throughout my dating history up until very recent history, how

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<v Speaker 1>many people could have said, he is not who he

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<v Speaker 1>shows to the public. He is not authentic with me,

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<v Speaker 1>He is not able to let his guard down, he

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<v Speaker 1>is not able to be comfortable with who he is.

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<v Speaker 1>He has not done the work, he has not gone

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<v Speaker 1>to therapy. And so you know, that was nineteen ninety three.

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<v Speaker 1>I guarantee you there was somebody in nineteen ninety eight

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<v Speaker 1>and two thousand and three and twenty fifteen, and up

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<v Speaker 1>until then I probably was the same way. I hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>been the right person yet, and I hadn't done the

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<v Speaker 1>work yet.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, props to her.

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<v Speaker 1>As a woman for recognizing that being able to express it.

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<v Speaker 1>So I share that with somebody and they go, how

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<v Speaker 1>did you feel when.

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<v Speaker 3>When she sent it?

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea. I might not have gotten the facts.

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<v Speaker 1>I might not have remembered it. I certainly didn't retain it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so you know, some of this is this little

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<v Speaker 1>woo woo. But when I was eventually able to find

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<v Speaker 1>a girl who who was able to relay that same

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<v Speaker 1>message to me much much later in life in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that I could accept and I could understand, and

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<v Speaker 1>I could change, and I could let my card down,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was more than just sort of sharing space

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<v Speaker 1>that we were trying to share a life together Like

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<v Speaker 1>that took the right person at the right time and

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<v Speaker 1>the right way to give me my message. And it

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<v Speaker 1>also took me being in a place where.

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<v Speaker 3>I was willing to accept it.

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<v Speaker 1>And a part of the reason that I was sort

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<v Speaker 1>of willing to accept it when I finally did, was

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<v Speaker 1>from doing the Great Love Debate and traveling around. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think you guys have heard me say this before

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<v Speaker 1>for years and years and years. You know, early on

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<v Speaker 1>in this show, probably the first four or five years

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<v Speaker 1>of doing the Great Love Debate, I was like dating

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<v Speaker 1>is easy girls like me. I don't know why everybody

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<v Speaker 1>is so hard. And I considered myself a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>above the fray. I was almost a little Jerry springerish,

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<v Speaker 1>like men against the women. But eventually I started to

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<v Speaker 1>hear stories, especially from men, about people feeling things and

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<v Speaker 1>experiencing things and being hurt and being heartbroken and having

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<v Speaker 1>pain from relationships, and I'm like, what are they doing

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm not, because although it didn't necessarily seem pleasant

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<v Speaker 1>when they talk about those things, it certainly seemed more substantive.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when Jen sent this facts, I'm like, oh wow,

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<v Speaker 1>a twenty year old girl felt that she needed something substantive. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't like I was forty. I was also twenty

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<v Speaker 1>something substantive out of a relationship. And I probably didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even know what she was talking about. I probably didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know what she wanted. I probably couldn't comprehend it. I

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't listening to it. And that has to be incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>frustrating for anybody who dates anybody that way. But it

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<v Speaker 1>had to be incredibly frustrating for anybody who dated me

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<v Speaker 1>that way. And it was a long long time of

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<v Speaker 1>me being that way, so on a break this down

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. I want to get into a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of this stuff. We have to pay for things like

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety three fax machines around here.

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<v Speaker 3>I have to pay for fax paper. I think that

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<v Speaker 3>it is fax paper.

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<v Speaker 1>I take a quick break, and we will get into

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<v Speaker 1>all of it right after this, and we are back.

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<v Speaker 1>I talked to my therapist about this. I talked to

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<v Speaker 1>other people about this, and it is really about not

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<v Speaker 1>just focus, but emotional intelligence, and the boys just don't

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<v Speaker 1>have it. It does take a while for the boys

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<v Speaker 1>to grow up. And not to make an excuse for

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<v Speaker 1>fifty percent of the human race here, but it takes

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<v Speaker 1>a while, and I shouldn't give myself a pass out

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<v Speaker 1>that I understand. Back then, I probably would have argued

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<v Speaker 1>that if she didn't send a fact since she said

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<v Speaker 1>it to my face, which I'm sure she probably did,

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<v Speaker 1>I would have gotten defensive. I would have made excuses.

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<v Speaker 1>I would have downplayed or belittled whatever she was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to say, and I would have made her feel like

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<v Speaker 1>in some way she was probably you're crazy.

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<v Speaker 3>We just went out last night. What are you talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>I was there for you.

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<v Speaker 1>I bought you those m and MS late night and

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<v Speaker 1>probably just wouldn't hear it. And so, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>talk about doing the work, and we talk about wanting

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<v Speaker 1>to become your best selves, and there's lots of things

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<v Speaker 1>we can all do to improve. Listening to this podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope this isn't, you know, coaching to you. This

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<v Speaker 1>is sort of sharing an experience. But hopefully somebody is like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm that guy or I was that girl, and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people because like I said, I did share

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<v Speaker 1>that that facts via text. I'm combining worlds here. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>combining nineteen nineties technology with twenty twenty five technology.

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<v Speaker 3>I shared that facts via text.

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<v Speaker 1>And a lot of the women were like, she speaks

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<v Speaker 1>for all of us, and she spoke for me at twenty,

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<v Speaker 1>and she speaks for me at forty, and she speaks

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<v Speaker 1>for me, you know, as a wife, and she speaks

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<v Speaker 1>for me as a girlfriend, and she speaks for me

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<v Speaker 1>as somebody who wants my man to live. And it

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<v Speaker 1>made me feel good that she still had it. It

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<v Speaker 1>made me good that I got to peek through this

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<v Speaker 1>sort of window of nostalgia. But all I could think

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<v Speaker 1>about since the time I read that text facts whatever

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<v Speaker 1>I call it, was my god, how many other women

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<v Speaker 1>felt the same level of frustration and disappointment. And if

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<v Speaker 1>I can just get him to understand what I'm talking about,

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<v Speaker 1>things could work out. We could have a relationship, we

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<v Speaker 1>could be a couple, you know. So when I was

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<v Speaker 1>finally ready to hear those words and listen and understand

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever, you know, a lot of damage you've probably

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<v Speaker 1>been done to a lot of people. I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 1>that I was like an asshole boyfriend, but I certainly

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't a gold star in terms of being a human being,

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of being able to communicate my issues or

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<v Speaker 1>hear their needs or their wants or whatever was going wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>I always just wanted to make a joke, like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>the resume I handed it in was for boyfriend, what

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking for as a husband? Good line, flip and joke.

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<v Speaker 1>But it was also about me not hearing them. But

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<v Speaker 1>mostly it was about me not to be in touch

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<v Speaker 1>with myself. It was about me not understanding there's a

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<v Speaker 1>part of me that is broken. And you guys have

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<v Speaker 1>heard me go way way back to my childhood and

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<v Speaker 1>the trauma that comes from that and how I never

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<v Speaker 1>trusted my parents' love for each other, which means I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't trust their love for me, which means I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>trust anybody's love for me, which means I didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>trust the concept. So fast forward years later, I'm doing

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<v Speaker 1>the great love debate. A lot of this is me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not just trying to heal that, but trying to

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<v Speaker 1>seek answers and to try and find these moments in

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<v Speaker 1>time where maybe the light.

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<v Speaker 3>Bulb did go off, but it didn't go off from me.

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<v Speaker 3>And what did I need to hear?

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<v Speaker 1>And if somebody had sent me that a version of

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<v Speaker 1>that facts ten years ago, and somebody did, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if the language was what woke me up. It

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<v Speaker 1>was just the time and hearing from enough people to

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<v Speaker 1>realize that I wasn't I hadn't been the right person yet,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had to do more work and I had

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<v Speaker 1>to go to that scary, scary place that honestly, it's hard,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I went a long long time in my

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<v Speaker 1>twenties and thirties and part of my forties just this

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<v Speaker 1>is fun. There's no downside, there's no risk, there's no scariness,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't get hurt. It's all just fun. But the

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<v Speaker 1>people in my in my Galaxy were probably not experiencing

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<v Speaker 1>the same.

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<v Speaker 3>Joy out of the Brian Howie ride.

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<v Speaker 1>And I feel bad for that always, and I try

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<v Speaker 1>and think back on that, like what kind of partner

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<v Speaker 1>was I? What kind of boyfriend is I was? I?

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<v Speaker 1>How could I have done better? What messages did I miss?

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<v Speaker 1>What request did I dismiss?

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<v Speaker 3>All of that?

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<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, not sharing this out of guilt,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sharing this out of I'm sure a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>women feel the same way. I'm sure a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>women have these kinds of conversations all the time that

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<v Speaker 1>if we could just shake their head and get them

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<v Speaker 1>to understand what the fuck we're talking about, how many

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<v Speaker 1>relationships could be better and how many people could be better.

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<v Speaker 1>And like I said, there's two parts of this. Somebody

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<v Speaker 1>has to be willing to say it and somebody has

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<v Speaker 1>to be willing to hear it. And I probably heard

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<v Speaker 1>it a lot, but I wasn't willing to absorb it.

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't willing to take responsibility for it. I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>capable of understanding it. And so that's the prism I

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<v Speaker 1>look back for now. A lot of people are like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, you must have had a fun time

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<v Speaker 1>in Hollywood. I look at it differently. I look at

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<v Speaker 1>it like, who did I hurt, Who did I frustrate?

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<v Speaker 1>Who did I not accept the love from? Who did

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<v Speaker 1>I not give the love back? Who deserved? And so

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<v Speaker 1>on and so forth. Everything is sort of chicken egg

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<v Speaker 1>in anything, especially in love dating relationships. So if I

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<v Speaker 1>got this, I could have given this, and you're kind

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<v Speaker 1>of hitting the tennis ball back to each other. But

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of stuff I could have done differently,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot of stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>I could have done better.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to dive into this subject of a

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<v Speaker 1>little more as somebody who's kind of an expert on this,

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<v Speaker 1>she's gonna come on a couple of weeks and where

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about this. What are the signals

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<v Speaker 1>and how do we communicate this and how do we

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<v Speaker 1>find the best version of ourselves. Because to my friend Jen,

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<v Speaker 1>I give her the shout out I love you, I

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<v Speaker 1>always will. I'm sorry I did not love you in

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<v Speaker 1>the way back then It worked.

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<v Speaker 3>Out for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Your husband's great, your daughter's great, and you didn't need me.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm sorry that in some way like it caused

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<v Speaker 1>her her pain. And but she was probably the first

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<v Speaker 1>one in my life that tried to be like Brian,

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<v Speaker 1>you can do better, you can be better, you can

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<v Speaker 1>understand more, you can feel if you would just let

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<v Speaker 1>that guard down for the world. And then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people always ask me, what have I learned from the

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<v Speaker 1>from the Great Love Debate and doing it all these

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<v Speaker 1>years and talking to thousands of thousand people. Is the

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<v Speaker 1>one thing that we have in common that gets in

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<v Speaker 1>our way is fear. Fear of getting hurt, fear of

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<v Speaker 1>getting rejected, fear of picking the wrong partner, fear of

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<v Speaker 1>making mistake, fear of saying the wrong thing. And I

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<v Speaker 1>guess for me it was fear of not hearing the

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<v Speaker 1>right thing, and because I was afraid because when she

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<v Speaker 1>said it and how she said it, I probably looked

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<v Speaker 1>at it as a flaw in me or a criticism

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<v Speaker 1>of me. And really it was just trying to say,

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<v Speaker 1>I see you, and I know what you're doing and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm okay with it, but can you just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>meet me halfway?

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<v Speaker 3>And so many of.

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<v Speaker 1>People I've been in relationships with, they've probably tried a

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<v Speaker 1>version of the same thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Again.

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<v Speaker 1>It took until you know, the right girl said in

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<v Speaker 1>the right way at the right time, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, is that who I am?

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<v Speaker 3>Is that what we're doing?

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<v Speaker 1>But mostly it could have been like, Oh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>who we can be, this is what we can find together,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the journey we can have, this is the

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<v Speaker 1>life we can have. And it just took a long

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<v Speaker 1>long time. Like I said, it takes a long time

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<v Speaker 1>for the boys to grow up. Took a really long

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<v Speaker 1>time for this boy to grow up. So I want

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<v Speaker 1>to share that this isn't the longest podcast I've ever done.

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<v Speaker 1>This probably is the most substantive podcast I've ever done.

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<v Speaker 3>But it really sort of hit me. It really was just.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, oh my god, a the technology of the facts,

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<v Speaker 1>communicating feelings by facts just seems insane. Maybe I never

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<v Speaker 1>got it. Did he go to FedEx's office, back the Kinkos?

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<v Speaker 3>Back then?

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<v Speaker 1>Did he go to Staples? Where did she even fact it?

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<v Speaker 1>I need to track that down. But to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you always hear the people say, if you could write

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<v Speaker 1>a letter to your teenage young person's self, what would

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<v Speaker 1>that letter say? Jen wrote, What that letter would say?

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<v Speaker 1>Everything she said is probably everything I would say to

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<v Speaker 1>myself back then or now that there's a version of

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<v Speaker 1>me that is either hiding or crawling out slow or

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<v Speaker 1>niss to see more light.

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<v Speaker 3>That really would make.

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<v Speaker 1>My partner happier and would really make the people in

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<v Speaker 1>my world a little bit happier to be around.

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<v Speaker 3>Brian Howie, shoot me an email.

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<v Speaker 1>Great Love Debate at gmail dot com if you've got question, thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>comments about any of this. If you want to say,

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<v Speaker 1>way to go, Jen, I will pass that along. She's

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<v Speaker 1>been on this podcast before, so search that out. This

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<v Speaker 1>is like our five hundredth and something episode. Shoot, go

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<v Speaker 1>to jeez, I lost my train of thought there.

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<v Speaker 3>Let your reviews.

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<v Speaker 1>Still am in a lot in the podcasting ecosystem, so

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<v Speaker 1>please like, share, follow, and review this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to hear your reviews.

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<v Speaker 1>Please just click five stars. We're giving you free content here.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not doing much here. Got to listen to a

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<v Speaker 1>couple ads, and you got to download the show, and you.

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<v Speaker 3>Got to hit play. That's about it.

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<v Speaker 1>So please give us five star review because as always,

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<v Speaker 1>I have not been a five star boyfriend, but I'm trying.

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<v Speaker 1>At the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love.

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<v Speaker 2>See you next time, the Great Love Debate. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>Great Love Debate, The Great Love debate.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the great love debate.

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<v Speaker 2>H