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Speaker 1: I have a lad I made it out of place.

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When it's trying Maddy's and Dreda, I shall pay more.

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I made that out of place. And when it's trying Reddy,

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it's Beata, I shall play. It has a lovely body,

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it's with legs so short and things.

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Speaker 2: When when it is so tired.

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Speaker 1: It drops in, then I want a hard more d

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d trainer and I made her out of place. And

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when it's trying ready it's Andrada, I shall pay.

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Speaker 3: Dreno is always pleasing.

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Speaker 1: He loves to dance and spin a happy game of

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drail complain out it's begin tradle A made it out

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of claim, and when it's trying ready, I shall play

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a mad on out of claim. And when it's trying

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ready than dread.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome to made by Jim Bob. Today,

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as promised, is a stream about dispensationalism. We're going to

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go through the history of it, what it is, what

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it's not, it's effects on policy, it's effects on modern theology,

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and so on and so on and so on. We

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have the privilege of having posh Redneck jump on as

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well as mister J. Dyer low volume. For me, I'm

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low volume. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, Okay,

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hold on, here we go. How's that?

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Speaker 4: Is that better?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Stop?

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Speaker 1: Hold on?

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Speaker 3: Is that good?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 4: Ah?

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Speaker 3: That should be good? My volume?

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Speaker 2: Is this good?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: O good?

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Speaker 3: That's good? All right? So yeah, we'll have Jay dire on.

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He's coming off a debate to on two. I thought

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that was a pretty good debate.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: My position is, I think the best debate in regards

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to Islam and Christianity is in fact whether or not

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they're compatible in the culture wars, because that's how Islam

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is tying into uh modern politics and culture. Is that

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the you know, the sneak os are selling, oh we

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got to unite that John Zurkas are selling let's unite,

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let's unite. We got to fight the demons, and we're like,

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we don't even have the same demonology, brah. So hopefully

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that comes down the line. So yeah, so uh, posh,

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I don't know if you're in the chat or setting

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up your computer or skinning a weasel. Jay will be

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a little late, and that's fine because we're going to

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introduce these concepts, start with some of their roots, their origins.

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Question whether or not there are previous origins that these

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are tying off of. I don't know, we'll see so, uh, posh.

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He's probably restarting his computer. His computer probably looks like

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an old lawnmower where you have to pull the string.

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So we'll check out about that. But you know, we

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can how can how can Islam save us from degeneration?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it can't, can't. Yeah jump on now, posh.

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So uh yeah, we'll get into it. I think it's

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I think dispensationalism is from my view, it's one of

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the most overlooked problems in the world. That's a big

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that's a big statement. I think it's one of the

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most overlooked paradigms. And it's so influential, and everyone's confused.

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So many people are confused. It affects people who quote

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call themselves Christians, it affects non Christians view of certain policies,

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certain geopolitics. It's so influential, and yet it's sort of

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like this floating I don't even know, it's like a

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floating infection. Boomers especially, yeah, Boomers especially, absolutely, the boomers

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love it. I mean I even have like a clip

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this is the Boomer response. I mean this is what

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it This is basically what it looks like.

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Speaker 2: Clear.

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Speaker 4: Let me make it clear.

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Speaker 5: Israel is our ally, will always be our ally, the

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guilty of gide and support forever even though they, even

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though I will always and Palestinians.

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Speaker 3: And will it upon you. I bet you didn't think

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you're gonna get one of those today, but you did

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know you were gonna get one of these. Hello, Hello,

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welcome to the show. Long time, No see cheers, cheers

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your cigarette.

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Speaker 2: There we were already talking with a biz.

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Speaker 3: I need to start already.

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Speaker 2: I'll be talking coffee first. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Now I have to make an intro for j because, like,

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if he keeps coming back to the stream, I'm gonna

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have to make my own intro. Do you have any

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ideas if I make an intro for j.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, how could you give it some immediately? I

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think like banjos and stuff. Yeah, I have one of

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those giant x x X jugs ye yeah yeah, or.

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Speaker 3: Just a montage of him sighing and saying like all right,

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i'mological yeah, yeah, there's you're goofy, just hanging up on

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people a mute bro.

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Speaker 2: So yeah we can.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna get started without Jay, he'll be here shortly.

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But before we get into it, is there anything you

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want to say generally about the topic alone, anything you

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want to say generally speaking.

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Speaker 2: About it about dispensationalism. Yeah, so it is basically a

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nexus of everything wrong with Protestantism, including as we go

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through its history early on, the differences between But I

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heard from a little birdie that poserhaps look your duels.

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Speaker 4: Per.

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Speaker 3: I told the discord how to provoke you. Unfortunately, so

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now they know, Okay, go on, dispensationalism is.

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Speaker 2: Socialism? Is that's my best pearl impression. That's pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Actually, the best pearl impression you have is just talk normally,

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just without the British accent.

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Speaker 2: That stuff on more than you as was established previously.

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But if I get like ten beers in, then maybe

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you know, yeah, we can have cognitive deterioration to that point. Okay,

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But as I was saying, like, when we get to

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more specifics, more with specifics like Darby versus Newton about

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pre trib rapture, you know, and the critique of pre

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tribulation rapture is no one has ever thought this before.

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And Macintosh, one of the disciples of Derby. You know,

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it says, well, it doesn't matter that even if never

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in history, you know, too or more were gathered than

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Jesus's name, That is what the word says, you know.

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So it's always this standalone interpretive schema that you can

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butcher into whatever the bloody hell you'd like, and not

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to mention all the emotional hype or the apocalypticism or

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the irrationalism, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the question I was going to ask you or.

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Speaker 2: That means Republic of Serbia, are sure? Oh?

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Speaker 3: I gotcha?

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Speaker 4: Good?

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Speaker 3: Represent what's up, Nana?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I was going to ask is it just out of

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the blue one of these you know, these these views

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that just get constructed and that it borrows some crappy

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biblical hermeneutics, or is it something that's downstream from some

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bigger problems, like a heresy or something. Is there something

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more foundational underneath it? Or do you think it spawns

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sort of creatively, like someone you know, changing the blocks around.

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Speaker 2: Well, the great thing that Jay is well will be

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here is that he gets the documents.

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Speaker 3: You know, He's got the documents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how to even research that properly

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with these types of questions. He does, so we'll have

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to ask him how much. You know, we can see

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some type of direct influence. But when you asked me,

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was this like the work the nasally and doubt, I

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told you, Yeah, I told you. Racialism in this sense

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was very prevalent in the eighteenth and the nineteenth century

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and in the beginning of the twentieth. You know, the

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whole eugenics program in the United States for people who

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are like Wiganats in America who want to create the

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category of white people need to understand that for the

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American founding fathers, the Nordics were swarthy, so the chad

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Norwegian Vikings might as well have been Sudanese, so you know,

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but it was racial thinking throughout, which is completely foreign

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to the ancient world. Genetics had only started to prop

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up as a proper science and not recognizing basic patterns.

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You know, oh, this person looks like their father, their mother,

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this one like their grandfather, et cetera. You know, just

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basic pattern recognition. There was no ability to even discern

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properly how it works on a mechanical level. Obviously, you know,

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you don't get DNA until the nineteen fifties, so I'm

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not even talking about that, but that's part of part

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of the paradigm that's going to influence this reading of

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Israel as a separate thing from the Church, and Israel

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as a genetic entity, not as a spiritual religious entity.

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You know, we hear like ethno religious group. There are

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ethno religious group in the modern sense, even you know,

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back then, there's something. You know, Zoroasteralism has certain strains

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that go that way, the Zds thing that way, the

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Drews in who are technically some type of Arabic, but

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you know, they also have this component of you can't

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convert into it, you need to be born into it.

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And even with Judaism, with all types of different sects,

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those who say you can't convert, those who say you

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can convert, and when you do, somehow ontologically or changed

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into a Jew. And obviously those who are so liberal

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that nothing you know matters. But even then those liberals

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are actually more in line with the biblical understanding of things.

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But that's what I'm The reason I'm saying all of

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this is that you don't always need to have a

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surreptitious element.

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Speaker 3: The posh One thing I want to ask you about that.

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Is that that noticing the genetic aspect and trying to

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isolate that as some sort of meaningful category biblically that

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makes sense. Wouldn't that make sense that they would then

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extend that to a location to connect to that genetic identity.

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But that's not to say that the location is real,

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doesn't matter biblically, right, that just it's a tying together

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that that is unnecessary. That's that's incorrect. Is that is

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that fair to say?

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, even with the genetic the imputation

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of modern genetic understanding, your nose grows all of a sudden.

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You're good with money.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to keep the stream up after so people

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learn about dispensationalism.

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Speaker 2: Better to have a breakdown before Jay gets Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: That's true. So he walks into it's already a disaster.

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It's not his fault.

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Speaker 2: He thinks we're snubbing him. Meanwhile, we've been nuked off

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of everything. You have to write him like a handwritten letter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So so there is there's the location distinction

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and then the church distinction, but the genetic extinction.

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Speaker 2: Uh, like.

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Speaker 3: The genetic distinc ancient plays more to the geographic distinction,

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emerging them as opposed to the biblical it like favors

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one over the other.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the problem being that Israel, even if you take

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it like read back into it genetics, you have the

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promised Land, but it was never really very well concentrated

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there except for a very short period of time. And

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even then, you know, very quickly, I mean, let's start

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from King Saul right as the established kingdom. You know,

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we have the judges, obviously, most of them horrible for

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good reason, you know, for those who want to say, oh,

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it's a treason to want a king. We ah not

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much better before it, but you know, very quickly, get

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King David, the problems he has, and then the redemption arc. Obviously.

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Then we get King Solomon, who builds temples to demons

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for his many wives, you know, as a means of

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appeasement and diplomatic you know, gestures, let's say, towards surrounding kingdoms.

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He builds the temple, dedicates it poorly, et cetera. I

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shouldn't get into details, I'll get lost, but you know,

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repents later on. That's why he's a saint in the church,

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you know, that's where we get Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, you know,

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those great pieces of work are part of the redemption.

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But then we get very quickly the splitting of the kingdom.

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We get the Northern Kingdom of Israel and southern Kingdom

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of Judah. And I explained this on this channel as well,

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Like the Northern Kingdom is wiped out. That's about ten

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ten and a half tribes gone, and I mean eliminated

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by the Assyrians, because that's what the Assyrians do. If

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you surrender the empty out of the city, you know,

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spread out the population throughout the empire and then bring

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people from throughout the empire to the location. If you

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don't surrender, they make a festival, you know, just just

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gory outurageously vile and violent means of execution and humiliation

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of the population, you know, making banners of their skins

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and you know, different piles of heads, you know, including

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for children, you know, and then use that as that's weird.

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Speaker 3: Those are the thoughts I have when I watch whatever

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podcast or Pasha, I wanted to go back to one

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something so we don't lose. Yeah, it's on the fundamental

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distinction that dispensationalism itself is sort of the dividing up

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of chronology h Christianity in time through sections. Correct, Yes,

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and because of that, you're the attempt is now to

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point to any given section and say that's complete or

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near complete or yet to come.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Generally speaking, that's kind of what the gist is.

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Speaker 2: Kind of yes, because it's not over yet. But a

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dispensation is basically a prevailing paradigm in a particular time.

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That's outside of dispensationalism. The time you'll hear a dispensation

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is the phrase special dispensation, which is, you know, some

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type of exemption, some type of granted right due to

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certain extraneous circumstances, but it's a certain paradigm right prevailing

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for a time. And the dispensationalism we get all types

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of divisions. I don't think these are necessary for the

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purposes of this stream. You know, with ultra dispensationalism, hyper dispensationalism,

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liberal or progressive dispensationalism, et cetera. You know, they have

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different different world views. When you get the church, you know,

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traditionally it's pentecost. Others would go with commercial of Paul

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et cetera. And they have their arguments. It's unimportant. When

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Jay gets here, you know, we'll talk about they they believe.

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One of the reasons, they believe that Church and Israel

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aren't comparable. Or you can't say that the Church is

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the new israel Is because they believe that the Church,

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the word itself, starts the New Testament. And that's just

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not true. Sure, you get a certain type of special use,

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but that's because now we're starting to write in Greek.

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But when you read the translations, like the Sebturgent, the

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word ecclisia is you because the word church means the

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gathering place, right, or in other words, a congregation. Now

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this is a proper, proper noun, you know. So it's

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not like a place where we gather. To explain it

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to people, I say, okay, we can call this stream,

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we can call it a congress because we all came together.

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But that doesn't mean we get to pass laws either

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on a state or a federal level in the United States.

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And no one would think that because it would be

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on its face ridiculous that, Okay, anytime two people gather,

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now there are congress and they get to pass laws.

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No same thing with the church. But you see this

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type of simplicity. As I said, that's why it's such

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a nexus of Protestant problems with methodology in particular, is

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you can't really correct them because they only take corrections

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of the from the scriptures, which they themselves interpret and

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call obvious.

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Speaker 3: Darby keenan four nine and thank you, he said, didn't

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Darby also split the Bible into different sections as well,

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certain verses books for the Bagels and for the Christians. Yeah,

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we're going to get into Darby. That's a good actually

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point here. You can answer that as we bring this up, Posh,

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what exactly did Darby do? We'll actually get into it.

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There's a little short section I'll play in fact for answering.

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But for those of you who don't know Darby, is

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I guess the we could say the origin. That's why

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I asked, Posh, is there something that he's leaning on

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that with certain actors or certain proponents he's relying on

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to make this work. But most people historically just kind

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of go to Darby as an arbitrary starting point. I

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wouldn't call it fully it like.

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Speaker 2: You can say a lot of influence from like early Anabaptists.

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They have that fanaticism, They have that that you know,

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idea of oh the apocalypse is coming, everything is imminent.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: Don't ask a woman who age a man his salary

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and a dispensation dispensationalist what imminent means. So it's you

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can say that there are certain antecedents, but then so

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much of it is very peculiar to dispensationalism that I

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can't say it's some type of direct offspring. It's just

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that there is a strain of thought in certain Protestant

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branches that could influence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we could say it's just another predictable offshoot of

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the rejecting church authority and historicity. I mean, I mean,

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come down to it, right.

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Speaker 2: About with the winds of contemporary thinking.

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Speaker 3: Sure. So yeah, so Darby comes before people make reference

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of the Schofield Bible and all the truthers with their

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background music, do all the videos and so on. But

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it starts with this.

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Speaker 2: This guy.

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Speaker 3: It's a good place to start. Hey, Jay Dyer, welcome

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to the stream man.

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Speaker 4: Hey, sorry, and no problem.

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Speaker 3: We're just getting into it. We're introducing Darby. We were

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talking about whether or not Darby is leaning on something

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beforehand that that's more foundational, that gives him even the

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impulse to do such a thing. I guess we just

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came down to, Uh, he's just rejecting church authority and

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this is what it leads to. Right, Is there anything

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else you want to add?

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Speaker 2: So I'd like to say to Jay, I mentioned there

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is Anabaptist influence, you know, and this apocalyptic thinking with

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people like Mutska and sorry Munta and what's his name,

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mathis U and these type of crazy people who go

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But I don't think there's like a direct line, so

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correct me if I'm if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm I have to let you guys know that

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I went and dug out my folder shoulder, my actual

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study bible, nice my name emblazoned on it. So I'm

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here to correct all of your uh legalistic errors and heresies.

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I even wrote the five points of Calvinism at the

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beginning in case. I don't know why I thought I

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would forget them, but I.

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Speaker 3: Well, dude, that's really good handwriting.

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Speaker 4: What happened I did have handwriting today. I don't know

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what happened.

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Speaker 3: It's like, wow, yeah, So is there is there anything

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you want to add as far as like, can we

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start with Darby or is there something more fundamental that

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he's leaning on that could be more even ancient or

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back in time that seems to be a bigger problem

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that we even mention, Or is he kind of just

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going like, you know what, I'm just going to kind

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of invent off the cuff.

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Speaker 4: Well, just to hit on that point of rejecting, you know,

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tradition and church authority. One thing that happens is that

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the early Church, there was a period where there were

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there were people who were possibly premillennial and some that

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were definitely premillennial. So some of the early Church fathers,

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the the debate is that some of them were in

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the first and second century. You can debate what what

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exactly they meant, even by citing certain passages. But even

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if we granted that they were by the time of

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the Second Ecumenical Council, when the when the Creed includes

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the phrase whose kingdom shall have no end, that's intended

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in the Niceno Constapolitan Creed to exclude any form of

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killism or literal millennialism. So by the Second Council, this

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view was basically so okay, we can't we can't have this.

371
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So you're right than to say, posh that the First

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Reformation groups that seem to revive this idea of a

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literal millennium, or the Anabaptists.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So can you just quickly without making it two dense,

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if you could just distinguished from my own chat the

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millennialist view or paradigm, the thing that you're referring to,

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the two of the two of those, so they get

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a sense of it as we move forward.

379
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Speaker 4: So basically, you know, in the latter chapter is the

380
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Book of Revelation, there's there's a passive about the millennium

381
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that when Christ sits on the throne, he will reign

382
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for a thousand years. And then after the thousand years

383
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we have this period where there's a brief allowing of

384
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Satan to be loosed again, and then you have the

385
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final Armageddon and then the final things where you have

386
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the Resurrection and the great, the Great White Throne judgment.

387
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So the pre millennialists believe that Christ returns before he

388
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sets up this earthly literal thou in your millennium. Most

389
00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:08,559
of them believe in Israel with an actual newly built temple, etc.

390
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And the reason they think that is that they mistakenly

391
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have a hermeneutic that thinks that the promises to the

392
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Jews have never been fulfilled, and so even though the

393
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Messiah came and he was rejected by the Jews, the

394
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Jews still have all their Covenant promises waiting for them.

395
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And then this other sort of Plan B was initiated

396
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with the Church, the Gentile Church, and then at the

397
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end of the world, Plan A will be fulfilled in

398
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this literal millennium. That's kind of the dispensationalist model that

399
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,200
we're talking about now. Nobody in the early Church was

400
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,279
a dispensationalist, obviously, they all believed that the ones that

401
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,960
believed in a millennium, the very few that did, they

402
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:52,240
thought is just well, Christ comes back and then he

403
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:54,279
sets up a thousand year kingdom. I'm not even aware

404
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:57,160
of them thinking that there was a literal temple in

405
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Jerusalem would be rebuilt. Early Church, pre millennials just believed

406
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that Christ would come up and set come back and

407
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,000
set up a thousand year earthly kingdom. No rapture, there's no,

408
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,759
none of that. So a couple of features that these

409
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:14,160
guys bring that's new to this discussion by the way

410
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,640
the other position. As you said, the Church eventually adopted

411
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:24,720
a non literal millennial position. So basically, the Church just said, no,

412
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there's no thousand year rain on earth. It's a symbolic

413
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,599
timeframe that the Bible uses a thousand years in other

414
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,680
places as well, for just a long time. Yeah, and

415
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,240
it just signifies the period in which the Church is

416
00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:40,720
the Kingdom of God on earth and Christ reigning through

417
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the Church.

418
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Speaker 2: So that's it.

419
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Speaker 4: No rapture before the tribulation.

420
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Speaker 3: No, none of that, gotcha. Okay, So we'll go over

421
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,839
this and you guys can stop it. We'll go point

422
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880
by point. If this guy is messing it up or

423
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,359
perverting it, just let us know.

424
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Speaker 4: I also brought my other pre millennial books I found

425
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,200
so nice. I have my Dictionary of Premennial Dispensation.

426
00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: Jay, Was that a study a point in time of

427
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,559
your study or you held the view?

428
00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: No, I was.

429
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Speaker 4: That's why I had at my Scofield Study Bible. Like

430
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:16,039
when I when I first started reading the Bible, when

431
00:29:16,079 --> 00:29:18,680
I was like eighteen or nineteen, I went to the

432
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,119
I went to the Christian bookstore and this was what

433
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,599
I got my Scofield Study.

434
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Speaker 3: But we got I gotta see the script again though

435
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960
we got can you show that again what.

436
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:31,759
Speaker 2: That would mean? Or was it like by chums that No.

437
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,799
Speaker 4: I just kind of like, oh, I want a Bible.

438
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,880
Here's a study Bible. And the thing that that appealed

439
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,839
to me was, Oh, this one deals with like end

440
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,079
time stuff and that's cool.

441
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very American.

442
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,079
Speaker 3: Thing that it is, isn't it.

443
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:45,359
Speaker 4: Yeah?

444
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,839
Speaker 3: End times. It's like it's a classic thing to appeal to.

445
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:51,359
By the way, the title, the title is apocalypse in

446
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,359
space and Time here, so uh.

447
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: I'd like to mentioned before we start, apocalyptic does not

448
00:29:57,359 --> 00:30:02,759
mean end times. Apocalypse particular, apocalypsis means like revelation. That's

449
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:05,200
why it's called the Book of Revelation the Apocalypses.

450
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 4: But this book has Darby on the cover if you

451
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,160
notice there. It's got all the characters.

452
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:17,319
Speaker 3: He was big on profile shots. Who made the jump

453
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,319
then posh to that that etymological problem there between apocalypse

454
00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:23,119
and I.

455
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Speaker 2: Can't tell you because all of these things are so

456
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,720
convoluted that you can't.

457
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: Really go for some truther though early truth definitely.

458
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: Definitely, but most of them were like the Anabaptists. If

459
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:39,599
you read about them, yeah, I watched a couple of

460
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,119
videos on it in preparation for this. In one comment said,

461
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,359
before I thought that Anabaptists were terrorists, but now I've

462
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,279
changed my mind and now I think they were Satanists

463
00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:56,720
and terrorists. So that's basically what happened. You know, they

464
00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:00,319
would stop running naked through the streets, you know, starting wars,

465
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,799
constantly trying to like light the fuse of the end

466
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,759
times because they were obsessed with this apocalypse. And I

467
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,640
personally believe that they because of the content of the

468
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,359
Book of Revelation, they started associating the term apocalyptic with

469
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,400
the end times. Now, the Book of Revelation isn't just

470
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:25,880
about the end Times. It does contain that, but it's

471
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,559
about a lot more like the Seven Churches that have

472
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,039
described you know, they were historical churches with historical problems

473
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,720
in the time of the life of Saint John. So

474
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:45,599
it's it's this type of retroactive reading back into it.

475
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:48,960
But that again you see it here like if you

476
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:51,599
want to use an a word for the end times,

477
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,920
use armageddon, you know, but that there's no Book of Armageddon,

478
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,559
so that really ruins it. And again it's it's so

479
00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:05,680
fun it's like white people like learning about demonology and ancipology.

480
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:07,960
It's fun, it's got.

481
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,799
Speaker 3: And it applies to a very modern take of politics

482
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:18,440
because you can kind of transpose the apocalyptic wrongly use

483
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:21,599
of the word, as you stated, view onto politics. That

484
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:24,400
and then you start to see these people use sort

485
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,039
of a similar accelerationist view, where well, let's contrive the end,

486
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,680
let's just force the end of the structure, let's take

487
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:35,519
down governments, let's let's get back to the land. Bro

488
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,319
this kind of you and it's very Yeah, it's parallel,

489
00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:42,599
it's not identical, but it's certainly parallel.

490
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,559
Speaker 2: What apocalypse means. It means this overall view of history

491
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,079
from like a heavenly perspective. The Book of Daniel is

492
00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:57,119
apocalyptic in a lot of ways. There's also different types

493
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:03,079
of apocalyptic literature throughout the Old Testament. So that's what

494
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:05,960
it means. That's clear. I'm not just saying it doesn't

495
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,400
mean en times in telling you why. It's translated as

496
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,000
revelation literally means to lift up a veil in gotcha.

497
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:14,599
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I'm going to play this little bullet

498
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:16,160
point here and we can comment. You can tell me

499
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,599
to stop whatever This.

500
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:22,559
Speaker 6: Is followed, he says, by conscience after the fall, but

501
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,559
before the flood. From the flood until the call of Abraham,

502
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,480
what he calls civil government. This is followed by the

503
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,319
patriarchal period Genesis chapter twelve through Exodus nineteen, in which

504
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,599
the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and so on become

505
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,680
the centerpiece of God's redemptive activity. With Moses, we have

506
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:50,240
a new dispensation called law. It begins with the Ten Commandments,

507
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:54,279
continues until the period of the Church. The Church is

508
00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:57,240
called the Age of Grace. We are living in the

509
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,799
Church Age. It will continue to an end determined time

510
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,960
in the future, at which point there.

511
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: Will be what was called the Rapture.

512
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 6: The Rapture removes the Church from the world and gives

513
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,079
birth to then finally, the Kingdom. The Kingdom is a

514
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,599
millennial kingdom in which Christ is ruling in a political

515
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,320
sort of way from Jerusalem over the peoples of the

516
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:21,199
entire world.

517
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:24,559
Speaker 3: All right, let's stop there. I just want to look

518
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:25,960
at the picture. I mean, if he was trying to

519
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,880
sell this, that is the worst picture to sell. If

520
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,480
that guy was looking at me like that, trying to

521
00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:32,519
sell this to me, that picture on the right, I'm.

522
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 4: Out of here.

523
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's giving us what did the kids call? Yeah, yeah,

524
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,440
a little pizazz. He's like, honey, you have no idea

525
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:45,400
what you're in for. Is there anything you want to

526
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:47,719
comment on here? Because this seems to be. What we're

527
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,480
saying is that, you know, you divide into these sections,

528
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,519
and then obviously each section you're going to look into

529
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:58,159
some you're going to assign some perverse interpretation anyway. So

530
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,440
the question I have is from a orthodox view, let's say,

531
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,960
are things divided at all similarly and and they're just

532
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:08,719
missing misreading or you just don't do this at all.

533
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:17,599
Speaker 2: We don't do this. I'm sure you can say how

534
00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:23,800
Satan tricks Adam and do you It's not that he,

535
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:29,039
you know, somehow tricked them into greed or whatever. They

536
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:34,320
were still very new, so he uses this innocence against

537
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,400
I guess you could call it that that's something.

538
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

539
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,079
Speaker 3: Well, well the reason I ask is because we're doing

540
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:43,199
a critique from a specific view, and you know a

541
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,119
lot of people watching me a percent always say, well,

542
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:48,480
you guys do that or they do this. I just

543
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:49,920
want to cover that in advance.

544
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd like to touch on that because back when

545
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,159
I was a dispensation, so the thing that got me

546
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,880
out of it was beginning to look at the way

547
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,400
that the New testamentry to the Old and then I

548
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,800
got into what's called covenant theology, which I think is

549
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,559
way more biblical. And this is the idea that God

550
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,400
relates to mankind historically through a series of covenants. And

551
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,159
it's odd that, I mean, why wouldn't the dispensed sessions

552
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,519
want to use the thing that the Bible itself says

553
00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:21,559
is how we relate to God, which is the covenant relationship.

554
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,480
And in those covenant relationships the way there's kind of

555
00:36:26,559 --> 00:36:31,920
a similar patterner structure to all biblical covenants. Love theologians

556
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,280
have noted this over the years, whether Protestant or non Protestant,

557
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,519
but so basically, well so to the comment, it's not

558
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:43,559
exactly covenant theology, because what they're doing is they're saying

559
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:47,519
that in these dispensations, the way that you're saved and

560
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:49,639
the way that you have a relationship with God changes,

561
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,039
it's different, and that's not covenant the Covenant theology says

562
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:56,639
there's a unified pattern to these covenants. They're all essentially

563
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,840
one covenant. Dispensationalists do not believe that it's all one

564
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,400
covenant back. Many of them are dual covenant believers. They

565
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,800
believe that there's a covenant for the Jews and this

566
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,880
other covenant thing for Gentiles, which is totally different from

567
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,760
all these previous covenants in the past with Noah or whoever.

568
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,880
So it's a really yanky like whack type of anti

569
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:24,480
covenant theology. It's a very opposite of what orthodox or

570
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:27,840
even most Protestants would believe about the Old Testament Covenant.

571
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:32,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is there are similarities with viewing it,

572
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,360
you know, with the covenantal theology. But they they love

573
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:43,559
each other Covenentalists and dispensationalists. As I said, like in

574
00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:47,039
the beginning, a dispensation is a prevailing type of order

575
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:53,639
or rules or whatever. It's almost like imposed. But there's

576
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,000
also no interaction, right, there's just things are playing out,

577
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:04,800
which again plays into different types of Protestant strains of thought.

578
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,840
Protestants not big on free will and stuff is going

579
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,599
to play into it. So but but you can't say

580
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,599
it's like covenant theology as far as back to our

581
00:38:17,559 --> 00:38:24,679
timeline has described here, they basically just pick us, you know,

582
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:28,960
an event that's important, and then say, oh, this is

583
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:33,039
like a carve out, this is a specific dispensation.

584
00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 3: So nine eleven could very well be if darted today, right.

585
00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, that might be more joking, but nine

586
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:51,519
eleven would definitely be one. But as far as these

587
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:55,480
types of events, the problem isn't that you can't you know,

588
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,480
just set about Okay, let's view this period here in

589
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:02,880
this man. The problem is that you carve it out,

590
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,360
as they said, it sort of becomes like self subsistent,

591
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:09,920
like it has a saiety. And the problem with that

592
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,320
is like throughout history, I know, how do we do

593
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,280
we define the Middle Ages? And usually we would say,

594
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:20,840
you know, from the fall of the Western Roman Empire,

595
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,719
you know, to either the fall of Constantinople or the

596
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:31,360
discovery of America. That's the general timeline. But that does

597
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,239
not mean that all of a sudden, you know, like

598
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,039
in strategy games, you know, like advanced period and all

599
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,119
soldiers turn from like Roman engineers to like knights and something.

600
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:48,840
You know, things don't change that sharply. But in dispensationalism

601
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,440
you do have these sharp edges, and they view it

602
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,960
as separate things and as Jay said, convenentalists do not.

603
00:39:56,559 --> 00:39:59,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also it's very romantic looking. It's like if

604
00:39:59,199 --> 00:40:02,519
you were removed the Genesis and all these biblical references

605
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:05,440
and just kept these bullet points, I wouldn't know if

606
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,480
you're looking at the chapters of a comic book or

607
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:10,119
a romance novel or something like it could be. It's

608
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:12,199
almost like that. That's the impulse, is to sort of

609
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,559
categorize it in this way that's more reduced, so that

610
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:20,599
people sort of experience it like they're in this storyline,

611
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,239
like what chapter are we in? Right from that view,

612
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,599
and that seems to be kind of a problem in

613
00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:30,440
itself to assume that you have the knowledge of what

614
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:35,800
chapter you're in, right, Jay, you're your ummute bro on,

615
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:36,360
mute bro.

616
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 4: Every covenant that God makes with man, and by the way,

617
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:44,639
you'll notice to the structure of covenants is that they

618
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,800
begin with Adam, and then it moves to a family

619
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,840
with Noah, and then it moves to a tribe with Abraham,

620
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,559
and then it moves to the nation with Moses. Then

621
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:54,639
it moves to the kingly covenant with David, and then

622
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:57,280
we have the final covenant with the Messiah. So there's

623
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,760
a logical structure to the movement of the evenance. There's

624
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,559
no logical structure to this arbitrary adhocs system. And furthermore,

625
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:10,239
each covenant in the scriptures, even the for example, a

626
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,119
Brandmic covenant, it includes stipulations, so you'll have these sort

627
00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:18,360
of statements of the vassal to the covenant people. The

628
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,880
stipulations are given, and there's also promises. So every covenant

629
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:28,079
includes promises, grace and stipulations or laws. Even with Moses,

630
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:31,960
even with Abraham. If you look in twenty two, God

631
00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:34,880
makes the stipulation that you have to obey his statues,

632
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,800
his decrease, his commands. So they'll often try to say

633
00:41:38,039 --> 00:41:42,440
there's no law or stipulations in the Bramic Covenant. But

634
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:44,679
in Genesis twenty two, when God repeats that there is

635
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,960
law and stipulation, there's law and stipulation in the covenant

636
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:54,760
without him. Be faithful, you know, don't eat of that tree,

637
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,280
et cetera. When Adam sinned, he broke essentially all the

638
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,360
ten commandments, and so they fundamentally misunderstand that there's always grace,

639
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:05,960
there's always uh stipulation. Even the Mosaic Covenant includes grace too.

640
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,239
So that's that right there, as a total destruction of

641
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,519
the whole presupposition of covering dissations.

642
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:15,519
Speaker 3: That's interesting because I mean it's not exactly the same,

643
00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:18,440
but it did remind me of like an Orthodox view

644
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,320
of being saved, having been saved, saved, and will be

645
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,079
saved versus I got my trans stamp saved. See, it's

646
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:27,760
like a similar error, but just not as a big magnitude,

647
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,800
I guess, or how they're doing it here. You're saying

648
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:33,960
a lot of these titles or things would exist in

649
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:37,400
all of these chapters in some way, so to divide

650
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,199
them and I assume they they're non existent previously is silly.

651
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,199
So I don't know how. My question is, how did

652
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:46,519
you get away with this? Is it because it was

653
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:50,519
just an absence of church authority in Western modern culture

654
00:42:50,559 --> 00:42:54,119
of this time, modern relatively modern, that they just didn't

655
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:54,960
get catch it.

656
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 4: I would say there's kind of a long tradition already

657
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:04,039
in the West, especially in England, of Protestant assumptions. So

658
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,000
you know, from the time of Henry the eighth and

659
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,920
the Anglican Church in the UK, you've already kind of

660
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,079
got a few generations, a few centuries of these Protestant assumptions,

661
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,599
and so these people are kind of like, oh, you know,

662
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,599
look what we've discovered, and they're basing it on the

663
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,360
fact that you know, you already had probably I think

664
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,280
a few Anglican ministers who were pretty famous prior to

665
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,360
this who were premillennialists. So I think there was a

666
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,880
few popular Anglican theologians before Darby and these guys who

667
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,079
were premillennial, So they were probably working with some of

668
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:39,639
that and saying, well, he's premillennial, but he's not consistent

669
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,800
enough because he's not understanding that, you know, God's got

670
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,320
these different plans. And then I think there's also a

671
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,719
geopolitical motive, which we'll get through here in a moment.

672
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, at the time, right.

673
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,639
Speaker 2: I'd like to say that the with among the reformers,

674
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,840
you had people who had outright hostility towards Mosaic law

675
00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:01,800
because they separated so much from you know, we are

676
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,480
saved by grace and back then he was saved by works. Again,

677
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:11,519
basic illiteracy in terms of understanding scripture. But I believe

678
00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:18,239
Luther said that he would punch yeah, because he demanded

679
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,159
so much works. I don't know how that works. With

680
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,679
solar scriptra, you know, like Moses felt like putting all

681
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:27,079
of these.

682
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 4: Well, I read a lot of Luther. I had a

683
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,599
Luther phase. I read a lot of Luther. And what

684
00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:33,679
he says is that, well, what counts as scripture is

685
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,840
what preaches the word of God. What preaches the word

686
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,039
of God is what preaches the Gospel of grace. So

687
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:40,639
essentially whatever Luther thinks.

688
00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: So he wanted to punch. He wanted to punch Moses

689
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:49,599
for abiding by works like high demanding it. Oh demanding. Well,

690
00:44:49,639 --> 00:44:51,360
that's funny because that would be a work, that would

691
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,559
be like a work to punch him like that would

692
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:55,559
be a good deed in action from his.

693
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: But even if he didn't see it as a good deed,

694
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:04,599
he would have to God, like, we make fun of

695
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,960
people who are like we have no pictures and that

696
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,320
this or that, that's all idolatry, you know, Okay, And

697
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,960
I tell them, okay, go back to when they were

698
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,119
building you know, the tabernacle and the the arc or

699
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,639
later on the temple, you know, and go tell Moses

700
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,239
he's an idolator, and he'll tell you, but God told

701
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,159
me to do this. Well, then God is an idolator,

702
00:45:26,199 --> 00:45:30,519
because God doesn't preach iconoclasm or something like that. But

703
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:38,280
it's it's these things are read retroactively into the Bible.

704
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,880
It's it's the definition of Jesus, which they, you know,

705
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:48,800
constantly complain about everyone else doing. And the dispensation is, specifically,

706
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,159
are so obsessed with saying that any different reading of

707
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:59,079
the Bible requires like a film to be put over

708
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,360
the Bible, like some interpretive schema has to be imposed.

709
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:07,320
But this is the clear teaching of scriptures. And as

710
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,840
Jason mentioned, the word of God, and I keep arguing

711
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,719
with Protestants on Twitter, the word of God in the

712
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,800
scriptures never refers to the scriptures. It always means the

713
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:23,920
second person of the God, the Word of God, Jesus,

714
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,800
and especially I'm too illustrated. I mentioned the beginning of

715
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,760
the Book of Jeremiah. It says, the Word of God

716
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,519
places his finger on my lips. It's not unless it's

717
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:39,000
some type of origami of like papyrus with words written

718
00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:42,239
on it in Hebrew. You know, No, it's a person.

719
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,599
It's a guy. It's a guy. When it's with Abraham

720
00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:52,360
and he recognizes him physically with the two angels, you know,

721
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,360
it's not this ethereal disembodied voice. So they also views

722
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,519
the term word of God, and then to this day

723
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,400
justin still say what God means the Bible, you know,

724
00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:09,039
and it interpreted like you know, faith comes from hearing

725
00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:12,079
and hearing from the Word of God. They interpret that

726
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:13,960
as you know, scripture readings with.

727
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: Something yeah, yeah, keep going a couple of seconds. I'm

728
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,599
gonna bring up a meme that really embodies this problem

729
00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:23,159
real quick.

730
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,639
Speaker 4: Okay, no problem personally, I could do something. I would

731
00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:31,000
disagree a little bit there. I'm not trying to cause

732
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:32,840
the dissension or anything like that. But I think like

733
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,440
if you read Psalm one nineteen, which is the Master

734
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:38,400
I think it's one eighteen, there's a lot of references

735
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,719
in there to the law, and it's identified also as word,

736
00:47:42,199 --> 00:47:44,320
and I think there it is talking about the written text.

737
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,239
So I don't see necessarily a problem with at times

738
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,320
identifying the written text as the Word of God in

739
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,519
a limited sense, because, as Maximus says, the content of

740
00:47:54,599 --> 00:47:57,119
the Word of God or the Shuman's content the scriptures

741
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,440
is the same as the content of anything else about

742
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,960
divine rebel, which is just the low gee. So if

743
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,719
you understand that it's not the Bible that is, technically speaking,

744
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,719
the living person of the Word, but in a limited

745
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,840
sense you could call it the law of God or

746
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,800
the Word of God, as that Psalm does. It's just

747
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,320
referring to the message or the content, which is ultimately Christ.

748
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,920
And that's relevant for dispensationalism because there's another key hermeneutical

749
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,480
mistake that they make, which is a dispensationalists think that

750
00:48:26,639 --> 00:48:29,719
the Old Testament is not primarily about Christ. This is

751
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,880
huge because all those promises that they see in Genesis

752
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,119
to Abraham, to the seed, to the nation, that He

753
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:38,880
will make them as the sand of the sea the

754
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,800
stars of heaven. They see that it still promises to

755
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,760
literal flesh Israel. And so if you don't have a

756
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,519
crystological hermeneutic of the Old Testament, you're going to fall

757
00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:51,760
into dispensationalism because they don't believe that the Gospel was

758
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,320
taught in the Old Testament. That's why we say, as

759
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,159
Paul says in Galatians three and four, Romans four, and

760
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:02,840
Hebrews four, that the Gospel was preached to Abraham and

761
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,760
to the Jews in the wilderness. No dispensationalists can say

762
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,920
that or beliefs that. So it's crucial that they have

763
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:12,840
this rigid, what's called only grammatical historical interpretation of the

764
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,039
Old Testament, no emphasis on Christology. They'll admit a few

765
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,880
Messianic prophecies like Psalm twenty two or whatever, but they

766
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,920
will not admit that there is a presentation of the

767
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,519
Gospel in the Old Testament. They would be really confused.

768
00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:29,920
I think about Theophanes or the idea that the Trinity

769
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,960
is in the Old Testament. All of this would confuse them.

770
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,360
So they had this unitarian idea of the Old Testament,

771
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,159
which is what many other people have. Yeah.

772
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: Interestallations three twenty nine specifically says those who belong to

773
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:46,199
Christ are the seeds of Abraham and as to the promise,

774
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,599
And that goes with what we were saying before you

775
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:57,199
jumped on Jay, that all of this genetical, genetic, racial

776
00:49:57,679 --> 00:50:03,079
ethnic view. Yeah, that is very prevalent in dispensationalism and

777
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:09,760
basically unnecessary prerequisite for the Zionist aspects of it are

778
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,440
a product of modern understanding of ethnicity and genetics.

779
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 4: And just that phrase, the Gospel was preached to Abraham

780
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,519
from Galatians three, and the Gospel was preached to the

781
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:26,840
Jews and the wilderness Hebrews four. Just that phra. No

782
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,599
dispensationalists could ever Wait, no, there's no Gospel preach during

783
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:32,000
the era of Promise or law.

784
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it wouldn't make any sense.

785
00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to show this meme because obviously from

786
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,719
this person's view who posted this, they could swap out

787
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,760
Catholic with Orthodoxy here. But it's got the Bible looking

788
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,400
at the boyfriend who's checking out church history. Well, this

789
00:50:47,559 --> 00:50:50,400
is so stupid. It's actually a cell phone. Because the

790
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,840
Catholics would be people and men, and the Church history

791
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,199
would be men, and that would require mind and interpretation

792
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,880
and views. The Bible is presented as a as a person,

793
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:02,840
as a being, as a mind, as some sort of entity,

794
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:05,639
and that's ironic and ironically they posted this, and they

795
00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:08,360
don't understand the problem here that from their view, that

796
00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:11,159
is the problem that the Bible isn't a being. There

797
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,880
is no personhood of the Bible as an object with

798
00:51:15,079 --> 00:51:17,760
words in it, and they do fundamentally kind of turn

799
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,239
the Bible into the fourth person in a weird perverted way.

800
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:31,039
Speaker 2: Throw back to yesterday's debate about Yeah. Yeah, I make

801
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:34,400
the same claim you know, critique about when they say

802
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:38,480
faith saves, they're almost like treated like an entity. Right. Yeah,

803
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,960
there's like furies in like Roman mythology. You know, there

804
00:51:44,039 --> 00:51:48,039
are these spirits called furies, that female spirits, and they

805
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,960
go and possess people who do something wrong, you know,

806
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:56,639
and then you become furious. Right, And apparently they see

807
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,320
faith as that. You know, you get this spirit called

808
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,880
faith and then it acts and you'll stick.

809
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,039
Speaker 3: It's not pos you sure, it's not furries.

810
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:13,679
Speaker 2: There are no female it's all degenerate, all right.

811
00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:15,079
Speaker 3: I want to move I want to move along here

812
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,559
because I do want to get especially to the cultural

813
00:52:17,639 --> 00:52:20,960
aspect that Jay was pointing to that we're going to

814
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,679
get to, because it's that's really I think is really

815
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,360
the impactful part of this. Like obviously the education of

816
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,719
this is important, but how it how it impacts modern

817
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,519
policy geopolitics, which Jay is uh specialized in, I really

818
00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:37,079
want to get into that. So I want to move

819
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,239
through this little overview, get a grasp of it. I

820
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,119
want we don't have to go too far in if

821
00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:44,840
you guys think there's something we should cover before we

822
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,760
get into the geopolitical. Uh, Jay, will we.

823
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,119
Speaker 4: Be transitioning totally out of the theology stuff.

824
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,639
Speaker 3: No, if you want to cover theology but also cover

825
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,639
it as we go into geopolitics, I think it's still

826
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,440
relevant because a lot of these, like evangelicals, I guess,

827
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,920
or maybe others, you want to include all of their

828
00:53:06,039 --> 00:53:08,400
patterns and their and their voicing of what we should

829
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,360
do in politics and Israel and all these stances are really,

830
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:15,599
wouldn't you say, largely informed by this broken theology.

831
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 4: Whether they even know this is this is completely dominated

832
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,440
you know, the American evangelical mindset, which is actually now

833
00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:26,480
spilled over into Protestant I mean a Catholic and even

834
00:53:26,519 --> 00:53:29,760
sometimes Orthodox mindsets. They get this. They get tainted with

835
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,599
this idea that somehow, this a lot of this gibberish

836
00:53:33,679 --> 00:53:36,400
theology is somehow correct and well, we still got to

837
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,320
you know, honor, you know this stuff happening in the

838
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,519
Middle East or whatever. I don't want to add real quick.

839
00:53:43,159 --> 00:53:45,559
In Genesis seventeen, for example, this is another way to

840
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:48,719
easily just refute this stuff. When Abraham was ninety nine

841
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,000
years old, the Lord appierre Abraham and said, I am

842
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:54,760
God Almighty, what before me? And be blameless, and I

843
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,559
will make my covenant with you. So there's a promise,

844
00:53:59,079 --> 00:54:02,679
but there's the stipul walk before me and be blameless.

845
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,320
So even the imbrahmic covenant is not a covenant where

846
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,599
there are no stipulations. Right. And then you know at

847
00:54:09,639 --> 00:54:11,960
the end of gal another thing that easily refuses this

848
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:15,920
is at the very end of Galatians, Paul calls the

849
00:54:16,119 --> 00:54:22,079
Church the Israel of God in Galatians six sixteen. No

850
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,519
dismisationists could understand the Church to be the Israel of God. Right,

851
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,960
So again you know Jesus and the Parables, when he

852
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,880
says that the King of God will be taken from

853
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,679
you and given to a nation producing the trusure of

854
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,039
their nation stands for the gentile nations. So it doesn't

855
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:39,840
mean that you can't be saved, but it means that

856
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,920
the national covenant with Israel is no longer going to

857
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,599
be mainly about Israel. It's going to be opened up

858
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:47,519
to the Gentiles. And if a Jew want part of

859
00:54:47,519 --> 00:54:49,199
the covenant, they have to become a Christian. That's it.

860
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 2: Al says that those who you know all the faith

861
00:54:54,880 --> 00:55:00,760
of Christ, they are see Isaac can the physical I

862
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,719
think he calls it Israel or the flesh would be

863
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:09,400
like Ismaeilites, because and for those of you who need reminding,

864
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,559
you know, we have Ishmael, sorry and mixing up my language.

865
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:19,159
Is Ishmael, who is the son of Abraham through Hagar,

866
00:55:19,639 --> 00:55:24,840
his servant woman. And God says, no, no, no, you

867
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,719
have to it has to be with Sarah. You know.

868
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,559
That's why he's called Isaac, which means laughter, because she

869
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,039
laughed when God said that they will have a child

870
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:40,400
in their very very advanced age. And you know, even

871
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,800
though there is a blessing that is still given to

872
00:55:45,159 --> 00:55:49,679
Hagar and Ishmael, and that's not Islam. By the way,

873
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,239
there are people who claim that they would say Ismael.

874
00:55:53,519 --> 00:55:56,280
You know, that's how they would connect a lot of things,

875
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,159
or attempt to connect it to the Bible. Right, But

876
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,000
Saint Paul Hid himself very distinctly says that no, no, no, no.

877
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:09,920
The Israel is the people of Christ, not some genetic thing.

878
00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:12,360
And as Christ himself says, God can make children of

879
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,280
Abraham other stones. He doesn't need any of this. That's

880
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,960
a message throughout the Bible. You can't really bribe God,

881
00:56:21,679 --> 00:56:22,840
so you know, good luck.

882
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again you like that text the King of

883
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,000
God will be taken from you in Matthew twenty one.

884
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:33,199
That whole parable thank you is about the fact that

885
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,440
the Jews had failed at what was essentially their covenant mission,

886
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,719
which was to produce the Messiah and then share him

887
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,320
with the world. They failed because they intended to kill him,

888
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,239
but ultimately divine providence, and also by the prophecies which

889
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:50,559
the Jews and even the apostles of the first century

890
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:53,880
had misunderstood until Christ reveals it to them after the

891
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,400
resurrection in Luke twenty four, they were they lost those

892
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:03,599
promises and were divorced. This fulfills the promises in Hoseiah,

893
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,000
the prophecies in other places in Jeremiah, where it's talking

894
00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:09,880
about God giving Israel a writ of divorce, a bill

895
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,960
of divorce. Because of the culmination of their sins Matthew

896
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:18,400
twenty three, Jesus says, all of the things written in

897
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,400
the prophets, the vengeance of all of those periods will

898
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,480
come upon this generation, talking about his day in Matthew

899
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,440
twenty three, because of their crucifixion of the Messiah. That's

900
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,400
the culmination of their sins. We have this passage, for example,

901
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,360
in Genesis, where God says they fill up the measure

902
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,599
of their sins, talking in that passage about the Egyptians.

903
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,400
Here we're saying, basically saying that when the Jews fill

904
00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:44,880
the measure of their sins in the death of Christ,

905
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:48,239
then the covenant will be opened, the bill of divorce

906
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,920
given to national Israel, and the marriage to the bride

907
00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:53,960
the Lamb. So God finds a bride which is not

908
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:58,199
the adulterous Israel, it is the Church. The Church is

909
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,280
his bride of the fig tree. Is this so many

910
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,559
of those exactly some of those parables only makes sense

911
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:09,039
in this in this context. And the last thing I'll

912
00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:15,960
say is that, uh, the teaching of Athenacious Cyril of Alexandria.

913
00:58:16,199 --> 00:58:19,559
John Christism very clearly in his in his homilies on

914
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:25,679
Matthew twenty four other even origin, the tendency is to

915
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:29,079
be partial preadterist. What what what's funny?

916
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 2: For a second, No, No, I'm laughing because, you know,

917
00:58:34,199 --> 00:58:38,199
thinking of prosionist ideas in Saint John Chris system, you know,

918
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:40,119
not he doesn't.

919
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,639
Speaker 4: He's not very amenable to those ideas.

920
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,159
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we shall quote him on these.

921
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 4: Yeah anyway, So, but partial preadism is the idea that

922
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,000
a lot of what's happening in the Book of Revelation

923
00:58:54,119 --> 00:58:58,000
in Matthew twenty four and twenty one is the seventy

924
00:58:58,039 --> 00:59:01,480
eighty destruction of the Temple. It doesn't mean everything is.

925
00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:05,079
That's called fool predterism. That's a heresy that they believe

926
00:59:05,119 --> 00:59:07,599
that even the Bali Resurrection has happened, which is stupid,

927
00:59:07,679 --> 00:59:09,639
but I didn't want to mention really quick. There are

928
00:59:09,679 --> 00:59:11,440
some great books on this that have been around for

929
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,719
a long time. Kenneth Gentry has his thd dissertation called

930
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,559
Before Jerusalem Fell, which is a really good book. All

931
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:21,480
of these, by the way, refute dispensationalism. David Chilton has

932
00:59:21,639 --> 00:59:24,400
a classic commentary. He was almost going to become Orthodox

933
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,000
before he died. He's on his way and it's called

934
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:29,920
Days of Vengeance. It's a chapter by chapter commentary on

935
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,800
the Book of Revelation. It's really good. It's been now

936
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,280
superseded because people in his circles, like I don't know

937
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,159
if you guys know pere letheart is he's another person

938
00:59:39,199 --> 00:59:42,880
who's even though he's Anglicanish Protestant. They've been borrowing from

939
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,920
Orthodoxy for the last twenty or thirty years. So this

940
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:48,559
is the Doug Wilson circles. Lightheart just put out a

941
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:51,599
new two volume commentary in the Book of Revelation from

942
00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:54,760
this fantage point. So I haven't ready yet. I just

943
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,000
got it. I think it's going to be good. There's

944
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,719
another This is a Methodist guy who was anti dispensationalist,

945
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:04,719
and he wrote a commentary on a lot of Biblical apocalyptics.

946
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,480
So it's actually Milton Terry's Biblical apocalyptics. It's actually a

947
01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:13,239
good reputation of dispensationalism. A couple more really quick ones.

948
01:00:14,719 --> 01:00:19,000
This isn't This is another Protestant minister who was anti dispensationalist.

949
01:00:19,079 --> 01:00:22,760
He wrote a book called The Destruction of Jerusalem, George

950
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,639
Peter Holford. So even the Protestants, ironically, after the advent

951
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:30,400
of dispensationalism, even the Protestants were like on this, refuting it,

952
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,599
and some of their books are pretty good reputations. David

953
01:00:33,639 --> 01:00:36,360
Chilton has another little book called Great Tribulation, which is good.

954
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,760
So if anybody's looking for like a thorough sort of

955
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,800
like immediate treatment. Even Bonnson has a book I'm not

956
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,559
you know, I'm not going to recommend his theology per se.

957
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:51,039
But he has a good critique of this called House Divided,

958
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:54,760
I think is what it's called. Interestingly, Yeah, even the

959
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,039
Protestants have been all over this.

960
01:00:56,639 --> 01:01:01,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, you talked about motivating a little bit. Well, today

961
01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:04,719
it's obvious everybody's talking points. We can get into the

962
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,440
motivation today of holding this view or even a partial

963
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:12,559
view of dispensationalism. But at the time, could we say

964
01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:16,440
that there is a motivation here? Or could we split

965
01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:21,280
motivation with just crappy uh, you know, hermeneutics and just

966
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,679
adding all this interpretation like is it is?

967
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: It? Is it? Like? You know?

968
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 3: What I'm asking is how much of it is like

969
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:32,280
sort of an innocent, ignorant impulse versus is there some

970
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:36,480
political motivation that can be talked about at this time?

971
01:01:36,719 --> 01:01:38,519
With the guy on the screen, the guy in the

972
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:42,159
right there with the weird look, is there a motivation

973
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:42,679
at the time?

974
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,559
Speaker 4: I would say we could point to a motivation. Who's

975
01:01:46,599 --> 01:01:51,880
that guy that became orthodox? He's he's put the most

976
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:54,400
time into studying this topic. I'm trying to think that

977
01:01:54,440 --> 01:02:02,719
he wrote a book on the CFOLF. James Pearloff has

978
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,119
researched this a whole lot. He ended up converting to

979
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:09,039
Orthodox to a couple of years ago. So he I

980
01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:10,599
don't know if he's written on this or he's gonna

981
01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:13,480
write on this, but he's the first to really talk

982
01:02:13,559 --> 01:02:16,840
about kind of the timing of this in regard to

983
01:02:18,159 --> 01:02:21,039
the nation state of Israel. Right, So the modern founding

984
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:23,599
of it. So the Scopfield study about what comes out

985
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:27,679
in nineteen o nine from Oxford, right, And if you

986
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:32,639
follow the Quigly material, we know that the Oxford circles,

987
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:36,800
Cambridge Eton, these are all the upper what's called Cliveden set,

988
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:42,639
the Astors, the Miliner, Fabian, Ralph Child circles. We know

989
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,840
that they had a plan via Balfour, the Balfour Declaration,

990
01:02:47,159 --> 01:02:50,679
to set up this new nation state. It makes absolutely

991
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,519
perfect sense that they would want to promote through this

992
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:59,920
study Bible, right, this to prep people for if it

993
01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:02,159
comes out in nineteen oh nine, right, prep people for

994
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:04,880
what a few years later, the establishment of the nation state.

995
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 3: It's like the PNAC, It's like the Project for New

996
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,360
American Century, but with Church like a like a.

997
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 4: Crappy study, but a crappy PNAC study by.

998
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:19,639
Speaker 2: Way right, right, I mean Schofield Bible, produced originally by

999
01:03:19,719 --> 01:03:25,880
the Oxford University Press, you know, very very suspicious. Immediately,

1000
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,840
I just think of accents like mine but you know,

1001
01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:32,559
not talked about grown up with, and I immediately think,

1002
01:03:32,679 --> 01:03:37,519
oh God, something's afoot, something very vile and planned for

1003
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,480
a century in advance.

1004
01:03:40,039 --> 01:03:42,119
Speaker 4: So you can see the first issue came out in

1005
01:03:42,199 --> 01:03:44,239
nineteen oh nine by can't.

1006
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:48,519
Speaker 3: You Okay, but Jay, how about when this guy was

1007
01:03:48,679 --> 01:03:51,400
doing all of his work in his closet? Is their

1008
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,840
motive before that? Is there some influence there if we

1009
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,119
go even back further, like when this is all getting

1010
01:03:57,159 --> 01:03:58,559
sort of like you know.

1011
01:03:59,239 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 4: College could be Yeah, Parlof would probably be the person

1012
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:03,599
to go to on that.

1013
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,039
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm personally unaware of any but as I said,

1014
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,159
you know, they have this idea that church is a

1015
01:04:11,239 --> 01:04:17,960
New Testament thing, the term itself, but that's ridiculous. The term,

1016
01:04:18,039 --> 01:04:24,079
as I said, eclicia exists in the subturgent Congregation of

1017
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:29,199
Israel is in English rendered as congregation, but then church

1018
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:30,159
is rendered as.

1019
01:04:30,519 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 4: You know, uses the phrase that ecclesia in the wilderness.

1020
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So there is a linguistic difference. If your

1021
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:45,000
main resource isn't the subturgent. But even then you have

1022
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:50,039
to consciously translate them differently. You know, as much as

1023
01:04:50,079 --> 01:04:53,719
I don't understand why the Book of Joshua is called

1024
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,079
the Book of Joshua but Jesus is called Jesus, and

1025
01:04:56,199 --> 01:04:59,960
why no one decided to align them like it will

1026
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:04,440
be in Greek or in Sabe, you know, called the

1027
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,559
Book of Joshua. Can you Gossavina, you know, son of

1028
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:14,119
Nave and it's Jesus, but the same way. You know,

1029
01:05:14,239 --> 01:05:16,880
then people don't make that connection because it's not that

1030
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:20,679
obvious that Joshua and Jesus are the same name. You

1031
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:23,920
have to analyze it. So to a lay person it

1032
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,639
would be you know, it would seem like you're trying

1033
01:05:26,679 --> 01:05:27,880
to pull something on them.

1034
01:05:28,639 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1035
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 4: There's an interesting section here in the Premillennial Study Bible

1036
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,000
on the life and history of John Nelson Darby, and

1037
01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:39,559
one thing it notes is that early on, from eighteen

1038
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:43,760
twenty seven to thirty three, Darby's Ecclesiology and Eschatology underwent

1039
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:48,159
a reformation. He was disenchanted with the relationship of church

1040
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,719
and state in England. He addressed these early writings to

1041
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:55,800
the fact that the church was a heavenly institution. He

1042
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,119
then garnered around himself a bunch of like minded people

1043
01:05:59,199 --> 01:06:04,440
for Bible studies and houses without ritual and hierarchy. So

1044
01:06:04,519 --> 01:06:07,960
it seems like from the early outset it's just church

1045
01:06:08,039 --> 01:06:11,599
and states shouldn't be together. Church is a quote heavenly thing.

1046
01:06:12,119 --> 01:06:14,800
I'm gonna start having home Bible studies.

1047
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a rejection and a rebellion of authority,

1048
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,599
just like the modern era. It's just like, you know,

1049
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,840
what follows can be a bunch of garbage right in

1050
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,239
any direction, but seems like the foundation every time is

1051
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,360
always the first thing is like, I'm going to reject authority.

1052
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:35,000
I'm going to reject hierarchy. I'm gonna reject church, tradition, authority, historicity,

1053
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:38,119
all of these things. I'm going to make my own stuff.

1054
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:41,079
And really he's like the modern I mean, I'm gonna

1055
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:43,599
call people, I'm gonna call truth or these truth towards

1056
01:06:43,719 --> 01:06:47,559
Darby's now because it's the same. It really is the

1057
01:06:47,639 --> 01:06:50,519
same thing. It's just it's just like a different take.

1058
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:53,719
But really the impulse is just the same thing. Every time.

1059
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:55,800
I don't need a church. I have a fire pit.

1060
01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 4: Jay.

1061
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 3: You know, who are you going to tell me my

1062
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,239
fire pit does do the job, Jared.

1063
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 4: It's a little side tidbit. You know who else was

1064
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:08,159
raised Plymouth Brethren another most famous person in the world.

1065
01:07:13,519 --> 01:07:15,119
Speaker 3: Really, Oh.

1066
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you get raised in these horrid, ridiculous cults

1067
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,360
and then you know, you end up all messed up.

1068
01:07:23,719 --> 01:07:28,639
Shocker exactly. But I wanted to mention that Derby, not

1069
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:33,639
only is it not like a simple rejection of like

1070
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:41,320
sacitoital priesthood or ecclesiastic authority adherents or even promotion of

1071
01:07:42,519 --> 01:07:46,679
such authority, he saw as you know, basically treason and blasphemy.

1072
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,800
So it is like you go and kiss the hand

1073
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,000
of some weird bearded guy in a dress like that's

1074
01:07:55,199 --> 01:08:00,239
that's basically the level of his you know, rebellion. But

1075
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:04,800
that also means you get full lateral and horizontal freedom

1076
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,320
to interprets the way you want.

1077
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,119
Speaker 4: Here's an interesting piece of the puzzle. It might help.

1078
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:12,440
This is the person I've never heard of. It was

1079
01:08:12,519 --> 01:08:15,239
while Darby was at Trinity College that he came under

1080
01:08:15,239 --> 01:08:18,560
the influence of a theologian by the name of Professor

1081
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:22,359
Richard Graves, who happened to be an advocate for Judaism

1082
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:26,600
and Jewish people in the British Empire. Graves believe that

1083
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,199
through the conversion of Israel, it would bring about the

1084
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:30,760
I guess the end of the world. It would it

1085
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,279
would usher in the end of the world, and that

1086
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:37,560
a gentile parenthesis had existed since the Jews had rejected

1087
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,680
the Messiah. So here's the origins is from this person

1088
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:45,600
called Professor Richard Graves. So I'm not familiar with him,

1089
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,000
but he would probably be the key character here.

1090
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 3: Posh did say Jay is going to Jay will come

1091
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,720
with the folders, and you did. You came through, Now I.

1092
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,279
Speaker 4: Want to I came with an actual Schofield study Bible

1093
01:08:58,319 --> 01:08:59,520
with my name on it, with.

1094
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:06,520
Speaker 3: Your name Golden gold Day Diary. This is interesting. You

1095
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:11,039
said that there is even a connection to rejecting Christ

1096
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,279
as God as the Messiah, because the starting point of

1097
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:19,000
rejecting Christ as the Messiah basically necessitates of you that

1098
01:09:19,079 --> 01:09:22,279
you could invent a new future to live into that

1099
01:09:22,359 --> 01:09:25,079
you're waiting for. So it does make sense that any

1100
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:28,880
kind of rejection of Christ would allow for, like Posh said,

1101
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,560
horizontal vertebral building.

1102
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,319
Speaker 4: Also, remember, based on that scheme that you have there,

1103
01:09:33,399 --> 01:09:35,239
if you can be saved in different ways in the

1104
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:38,880
Old Testament or in that period. There's no reason why

1105
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,960
you can't be saved in other ways, now right, Yeah, yeah,

1106
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:48,039
waved books sure a separate way to be saved for gentile,

1107
01:09:48,199 --> 01:09:49,600
separate way just to be safe for Jesus.

1108
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: What book?

1109
01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:54,520
Speaker 3: What book did you just read out of? But yeah,

1110
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,359
that what was that quote? Even though you didn't know

1111
01:09:56,399 --> 01:09:57,239
who was saying it?

1112
01:09:57,359 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 4: What was the So this is a diction area of

1113
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,119
all these people, and they're belief arby entry underneath it.

1114
01:10:04,279 --> 01:10:09,600
Speaker 2: So it's not just the pictures at the cover that

1115
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,800
are good. But I wanted to also say that the

1116
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:18,720
whole apocalypticism that they're obsessed with leads to like today

1117
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,239
people are Jesus come quickly. Jesus come quickly, which is

1118
01:10:23,279 --> 01:10:26,680
a horrible position to hold at The Book rep of

1119
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,479
Revelations itself says that the blood of the martyrs is

1120
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:35,000
crying from under the altar in heaven and the only

1121
01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:39,399
reason why it's not yet heated is that God still

1122
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,880
gives us time for as many of us to repent

1123
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:48,119
as possible, So to hurry it up is not just

1124
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:55,279
you know, unbiblical, it's also cruel and shows the level

1125
01:10:55,359 --> 01:11:00,399
of narcissism that comes with the faith alone position. You

1126
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,640
sign you know your name on the saved, you know Chopper,

1127
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:06,920
and there you go. Now you're you're safe. So you're

1128
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:10,600
going to be playing a hob on a cloud and

1129
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:12,079
the others can found.

1130
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,279
Speaker 4: Now keep in mind, so these goobers believe that they

1131
01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:21,960
can do certain geopolitical actions like trying to Originally in

1132
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,560
the eighteen thirties, the idea was they could miss be

1133
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:27,319
missionaries to Israel, convert the Jews that would bring about

1134
01:11:27,319 --> 01:11:28,880
the end of the world and return of Christ. Right,

1135
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,880
what does Crowley think about the Book of Revelation. He

1136
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,960
thinks it's a ritual book that if you do it,

1137
01:11:36,159 --> 01:11:38,399
it brings about the end of the world. So they

1138
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:40,720
have the same idea that like, you can do these

1139
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:45,399
actions like like this the technology right, yeah, in the

1140
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:47,439
end of the world. Even Croley has that view.

1141
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 3: That's really interesting, Jay, Not to go off topic, but

1142
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,960
Crowley's I would say intimate relationship. I don't know what

1143
01:11:54,039 --> 01:11:58,399
else included in that between him and Jack Parsons, who

1144
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:03,279
basically not tried to materialize that particular view, but there

1145
01:12:03,359 --> 01:12:07,600
was definitely some sort of ritual in his combustion experiments

1146
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,359
and rocket tree. Interesting.

1147
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,079
Speaker 4: The Babylon working is an end of the world working.

1148
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 3: See, it's it's crazy how this stuff is. Like I

1149
01:12:18,039 --> 01:12:19,800
wish I had my truth or music cue because it

1150
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:28,560
is really connected. Works every time. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah,

1151
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,760
we're going to be doing another one. Hopefully Jay will

1152
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,479
get a date and if you need any help, uh

1153
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,520
finding it on a location. But yeah, I'll try to.

1154
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,199
I'll just keep looking. I'm gonna keep going with this

1155
01:12:39,359 --> 01:12:42,720
and you guys, you guys can determine how much theology

1156
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,199
you want to do. Even when we get into some

1157
01:12:44,319 --> 01:12:46,600
of the modern stuff. Like I said, it's still important.

1158
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:49,680
But if there's any more you want to do, I

1159
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:51,279
can keep going as long as you want.

1160
01:12:51,319 --> 01:12:53,199
Speaker 6: Here, I want to look at some of these in

1161
01:12:53,239 --> 01:12:56,640
a little bit more detail before we move on. The

1162
01:12:57,039 --> 01:13:02,239
millennium itself is a standard pre millennial conception, the idea

1163
01:13:02,319 --> 01:13:06,399
that Christ reigns for a thousand year period of time,

1164
01:13:07,119 --> 01:13:11,000
reigns from Jerusalem. All of this he shares with other

1165
01:13:11,119 --> 01:13:15,359
pre millennialists who basically developed similar ideas at that time

1166
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:20,640
in history. The Millennium is immediately preceded by the Second Advent.

1167
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:26,039
Christ comes before the Millennium, hence the term pre millennialism. However,

1168
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:29,720
something unique to Darby's view of this is that the

1169
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:35,119
Church is not present all the other pre millennial eschatologies

1170
01:13:35,159 --> 01:13:39,039
see Christ reigning for this thousand years through the people

1171
01:13:39,399 --> 01:13:41,720
who are the ones advocating.

1172
01:13:41,399 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 4: This particular eschatology.

1173
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,039
Speaker 6: So if you're a Seventh day Adventist, he's going to

1174
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:47,840
rule through the Adventus. If you're a Jehovah's witness, he's

1175
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,159
going to rule through the witnesses. If you're a Mormon,

1176
01:13:50,199 --> 01:13:51,760
he's going to rule through the Mormons.

1177
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:52,039
Speaker 2: You see.

1178
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:55,359
Speaker 6: But Darby has a different view of very stunning idea

1179
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:56,800
that the church is gone.

1180
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 4: And this church is in hill the promise that the

1181
01:14:00,399 --> 01:14:02,600
so called unfulfilled promises to the Jews.

1182
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,359
Speaker 3: Okay, so this is why Jesus.

1183
01:14:06,119 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 4: So the church is raptured. Jesus comes back rules in

1184
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:13,119
Israel for the Jews to fulfill those promises while the

1185
01:14:13,399 --> 01:14:13,880
church is.

1186
01:14:15,119 --> 01:14:17,119
Speaker 3: So he's declaring the Church is gone.

1187
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:17,600
Speaker 2: Right.

1188
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 3: Does that mean so the Church is no longer physical,

1189
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:26,399
nor is it existing metaphysically in a sense, just in heaven.

1190
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 4: Right, So, for example, the beginning of the tribulation, if

1191
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,079
you're a pre tribulation rapture person, you believe that when

1192
01:14:33,199 --> 01:14:37,520
the seven year tribulation starts, the church has been raptured,

1193
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:42,760
It's been taken out, and so the Antichrist comes right

1194
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:47,279
the Jews convert. The Jews then start converting everyone, and

1195
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,920
then Jesus comes back destroys Antichrist and then rules for

1196
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:56,079
a thousand years, and then there's the great White thrown

1197
01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:59,600
judgment resurrection. So the church is in heaven as Jesus

1198
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:00,279
rules on it.

1199
01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 2: I'd like to make a couple of points here. So

1200
01:15:05,279 --> 01:15:10,640
one very basic critique of dispensationalist in this pre millennial

1201
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,760
view is that it says that Christ rules for a

1202
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,960
thousand years. And again, this was not an uncommon term

1203
01:15:18,039 --> 01:15:20,560
to use for a lot, like a thousand is a

1204
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:25,279
lot to us today, Maybe not so much because we

1205
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:29,319
live in times of tremendous axis of anything you can

1206
01:15:29,399 --> 01:15:34,520
think of. But it just means a long time, you know.

1207
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:39,560
We have that even in Daniel that after a long time,

1208
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:43,359
you know, we will get back to like the Second

1209
01:15:43,399 --> 01:15:48,880
Coming or something. But it says that after near the

1210
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:52,079
end of that reign, because the strong man is bound

1211
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,920
and that prefers to Satan, that his reigns must be

1212
01:15:56,039 --> 01:16:01,920
loosened a bit. What bloody point is there in Christ

1213
01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:05,720
coming back ruling one thousand years and just let Satan loose.

1214
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,239
From our perspective, Christ is ruling right now. The Church

1215
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:16,520
is alive, you know, with all the problems that you

1216
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:21,279
know entails. But near the end of this long rain,

1217
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,279
the reins of Satan will be loosened a bit, so

1218
01:16:26,079 --> 01:16:30,319
things will get rougher. That is not to say I

1219
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:33,439
don't understand why people are so egocentric that they think, oh,

1220
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,640
now is the end of the world, and they find

1221
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:38,720
any single tip it, which is a very very Protestant

1222
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,119
way of thinking, you know, oh this has happened, so

1223
01:16:41,279 --> 01:16:44,840
now I will connect it somehow. World War two was

1224
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,239
a great place to think things are going to end,

1225
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:51,239
and we don't know. There was a guy who called

1226
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:53,840
in on this stream while I was on and said,

1227
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:55,800
do you know this is the first time so many

1228
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,760
Jews are back in you know, Israel, or the land

1229
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:04,000
that described in the Bible as promise to Israel? You know, okay,

1230
01:17:04,039 --> 01:17:06,000
who says they will stay there? You don't know what's

1231
01:17:06,039 --> 01:17:09,640
going to happen, right, but they keep latching onto these

1232
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,279
things and use it as this you know, like tarot readings.

1233
01:17:13,399 --> 01:17:16,520
Speaker 3: Or what part she was saying is basically bagel prepping.

1234
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying, preparing the water for the bay.

1235
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,800
But you know they have this idea and use it

1236
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:30,439
as a techne like you know Jay described, Crowley had

1237
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,560
his own view on that, but there is no sense

1238
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,640
in it why Satan would be loosened a bit, you know,

1239
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,680
at the end of the millennial ring. So so that's

1240
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,239
that's a very common one you can all take with

1241
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:47,239
you and you don't need who knows how grand a

1242
01:17:47,319 --> 01:17:51,680
knowledge of theology to give them that example. But again,

1243
01:17:52,159 --> 01:17:57,119
like with all types of these niche Protestant schools, they

1244
01:17:57,199 --> 01:18:01,399
don't really go for logic, similar to Islam. You know

1245
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:07,239
altos best. You don't need to describe anything. Who needs

1246
01:18:07,279 --> 01:18:11,640
to who needs God? Who needs to justify what God does? Yeah?

1247
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,520
Speaker 3: Also, Josha, the modern era, with the technology, you think

1248
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,439
it could be in our favor to get like a rigid,

1249
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,720
narrow truth out there, but it actually works against us that.

1250
01:18:22,319 --> 01:18:27,720
Like you said, these people who are these apocalyptis tismos, apocalyptismos,

1251
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:31,600
they're they can piece together things and find things. Oh

1252
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,399
did you see that? You know they're all going back

1253
01:18:33,399 --> 01:18:35,479
to Israel. Did you see this sign? Did you see

1254
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:37,800
the Olympics that they're just kind of like constantly in

1255
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:42,439
this state of like fielding quick bits of information, uh,

1256
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,439
digital post it notes and filling up their basement, right

1257
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:49,199
and and not that they're even aware of these views,

1258
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:52,880
but they're still you know, they're actually interacting with this

1259
01:18:53,079 --> 01:18:55,560
paradigm that we're critiquing right now without knowing it.

1260
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:59,319
Speaker 2: And another parallel and this is going to be important

1261
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:04,199
for the geopolitical aspects of it. Another similarity with Islam.

1262
01:19:04,359 --> 01:19:08,039
Islam teaches that Islam will go out into the world,

1263
01:19:08,119 --> 01:19:11,720
but it will retract like a snake, you know, between

1264
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:14,199
the rocks. You know, it's going to become so incredibly

1265
01:19:14,279 --> 01:19:19,239
small again as it began. But it also talks about,

1266
01:19:19,279 --> 01:19:21,840
oh we are strong, we will conquer everything. You know.

1267
01:19:22,279 --> 01:19:27,279
So you've got both sides of the you know, dialectic,

1268
01:19:28,399 --> 01:19:31,439
so you can go back and forth. Anything good that happens,

1269
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:33,760
oh you see, we're right because things are going well.

1270
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:35,520
If things go wrong, oh you see, we are right

1271
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,399
because things are not going well. Likewise, with these types

1272
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:44,039
of apocalyptic thinkers, you know, anything that happens is proof

1273
01:19:44,159 --> 01:19:44,880
that you are right.

1274
01:19:45,399 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 3: Everything is yeah, all yeah, there's.

1275
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,159
Speaker 2: No way to disprove it because they've captured both sides.

1276
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 3: It's a climate change. Yeah, I'm not going to read

1277
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:58,479
I'm going to read relevant ones for those of you

1278
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,000
bob chat or super chat and it's it's not totally relevant.

1279
01:20:01,039 --> 01:20:02,920
I will read it at the end. You can direct

1280
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:04,960
it a posh or myself or Jay as well, But

1281
01:20:05,079 --> 01:20:08,880
this one seems relevant. Nine ninety nine. If dispensationalist heresy

1282
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,079
is prominent in America, can we find any dispensationalists to

1283
01:20:12,319 --> 01:20:16,159
obliterate in debates like yesterday? Yeah, shout out to Jay

1284
01:20:16,319 --> 01:20:18,399
and Sam. You did very well. Highlight by the way

1285
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:21,640
they tried to pin you guys against each other. Sam

1286
01:20:22,079 --> 01:20:25,439
geniusly just accepted heresy and said pray for me. I

1287
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:28,439
thought that was a beautiful moment right there, totally deflated

1288
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:29,159
their their.

1289
01:20:29,239 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 4: Well, maybe we knew they were going to do that,

1290
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,760
so from the outset. Sam had said before the debate,

1291
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,520
he was like, I'm just going to say I don't

1292
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:39,840
know who's right on Philly o'quay and energies, whether Catholic

1293
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:42,439
or Orthodox. So yeah, so I thought he was going

1294
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:44,479
to say that but that ended up being a better

1295
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:48,000
red rhetorical. That was awesome. Yeah, that was awesome, and

1296
01:20:48,199 --> 01:20:52,119
has converted to any I don't think he's formally converted,

1297
01:20:52,159 --> 01:20:55,359
but he says that he attends a Catholic church because

1298
01:20:56,079 --> 01:20:59,000
have the Eucharist, but he has to go through catechumen

1299
01:20:59,119 --> 01:21:02,079
process Orthodox and then he said, plus I don't know

1300
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:06,119
whether Orthodox are right on papac and or not.

1301
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,159
Speaker 2: Okay, but he hasn't made a formal declaration.

1302
01:21:11,039 --> 01:21:11,520
Speaker 4: Goes there.

1303
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, here tends. But but but you have to get

1304
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,880
baptized or at least you know, not Christ. But do

1305
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,800
you call it Chris mate it? Something needs to happen

1306
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,880
before you're formerly part of it. And as far as

1307
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:27,279
I'm aware, he hasn't. So they were just even though

1308
01:21:27,359 --> 01:21:31,079
they have different understandings of Islam, they were trying to

1309
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:39,439
pose the same type of disparacy. Oh yeah, I mean excellent.

1310
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:48,199
Speaker 3: One of them was, Yeah, that was funny. He didn't

1311
01:21:48,199 --> 01:21:50,479
even flinch. Okay, we'll keep going here.

1312
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 2: So question was a.

1313
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 4: Is preterism the same as preterism is just the idea

1314
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:03,119
that many prophecies about what people think of the end

1315
01:22:03,279 --> 01:22:06,039
Matthew twenty four, Luke twenty one, and even much of

1316
01:22:06,039 --> 01:22:09,239
the Book Revelation that it's about the things occurring in

1317
01:22:09,399 --> 01:22:12,000
the days of the people experiencing it. So, for example,

1318
01:22:12,119 --> 01:22:13,840
John if you believe in the early Day for the

1319
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,279
Book of Revelation, was writing about the destruction of the

1320
01:22:16,279 --> 01:22:19,640
Temple in seventy eighty, so many of those things. I

1321
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:23,199
don't think anybody really doubts unless they're super evangelical, that

1322
01:22:23,399 --> 01:22:26,159
some aspects of Matthew twenty four and Luke twenty one

1323
01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:28,560
have to be about the destruction of the Temple. There's

1324
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:31,119
actually a really good Orthodox publication on this too, called

1325
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:35,840
Apostacy and Antichrist from Jordanville Monastery. I think it's really

1326
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:37,640
hard to get because it's out of print, but there

1327
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,479
is a YouTube version of audio of this whole thing.

1328
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:42,720
So it's only about forty pages, and all it is

1329
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,279
is just collections of church fathers elder saints for the

1330
01:22:46,399 --> 01:22:50,199
Orthodox Church talking about apostasy and Antichrist and end times.

1331
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:54,680
And it notes as well that much of what we

1332
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:56,840
are looking at in Luke twenty one and Matthew twenty

1333
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:59,800
four on page twenty two is the fulfilled fulfilled and

1334
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:02,239
say it says, Holy Fathers of the Church explained that

1335
01:23:02,319 --> 01:23:04,840
these words at this point are about the destruction of

1336
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:07,079
the temple in seventy eight eight, which is a prototype

1337
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,680
of the future great tribulation and into the world. So

1338
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:14,279
what happens here is that no dispensationalist believes in anything

1339
01:23:14,359 --> 01:23:18,560
preterist at all. So that's what's often called partial preterism.

1340
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:21,239
That's what I mentioned earlier, earlier about the dating of

1341
01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:24,800
some of the events of the Book of Revelation and

1342
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:28,920
when it happened. There's a different that's different from pre millennialism,

1343
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:32,159
which is about the thousand year reign and does Jesus

1344
01:23:32,239 --> 01:23:35,039
come back before he sets up a thousand year early reign,

1345
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:40,840
or is the thousand year reign typically called amillennialism, meaning

1346
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:43,199
that there's no literal millennium, it's just the reign of

1347
01:23:43,239 --> 01:23:44,800
the church for an indefinite amount of time.

1348
01:23:46,319 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 3: And jr. That means Orthodox and Catholics are partial.

1349
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:57,119
Speaker 4: Well if they dig into it. So for example, I've

1350
01:23:57,119 --> 01:24:00,960
got several Catholic commentaries in Book Revelation too, and the

1351
01:24:01,279 --> 01:24:03,319
commentaries that I have are not they do not talk

1352
01:24:03,319 --> 01:24:07,199
about preditorism. But I do have the missile, the Romancalic missile,

1353
01:24:07,239 --> 01:24:10,520
the traditional Latin mass missile, which does mention preditorist stuff.

1354
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:12,760
So it's just kind of like you got to dig.

1355
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:18,119
And there's not really official positions in anybody's church on

1356
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:22,960
specifics of end time stuff. It's kind of like, well,

1357
01:24:23,039 --> 01:24:25,520
what did you know? Like what did Christism say? What

1358
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:29,359
did CYRL say? What Athanatians say? Right, so we're looking

1359
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,920
at them. There's not like a papal statement on this stuff.

1360
01:24:33,079 --> 01:24:37,640
It's just kind of like, got to dig to find stuff.

1361
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:42,319
Speaker 2: Because this position was never popular in either Orthodoxy or Catholicism,

1362
01:24:42,359 --> 01:24:45,560
and usually you get these statements often there's been some

1363
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:50,880
turmoil with people going for a position. But I wanted

1364
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:54,159
to mention as far as possional prenterism is concerned, it's

1365
01:24:54,199 --> 01:24:58,760
a very consistent pattern in the Bible that gold does

1366
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:03,119
something in a s sense, and then it comes to

1367
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:06,880
full fulfillment later on, you know, like a sort of

1368
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:12,880
advanced payment. So we yet Israel, the old Israel. It

1369
01:25:13,119 --> 01:25:17,960
is freed from slavery under Egypt and brought into the

1370
01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:22,119
Promised Land, not fully by a man called Moses, but

1371
01:25:22,279 --> 01:25:25,800
a man called Jesus or Joshua again in English. I

1372
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:30,640
won't complain about that too much. Although it really irks me. Likewise,

1373
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:37,439
the full promise is then fulfilled by everyone who becomes

1374
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,479
part of the new Israel. The church is freed from

1375
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:45,039
slavery under sin, under Satan the prince of this world,

1376
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:51,319
and brought into the Kingdom of God, not again by

1377
01:25:51,399 --> 01:25:56,720
mosaic law, but by a man called Jesus. So again,

1378
01:25:57,079 --> 01:26:00,359
over and over again we get these patterns. Like Wise,

1379
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:04,960
the we can see the destruction of Jerusalem as a prototype,

1380
01:26:05,039 --> 01:26:09,920
let's say, for what can happen later on. That does

1381
01:26:10,039 --> 01:26:14,800
not mean and like any serious church structure. Let's say,

1382
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,399
let's I don't want to use the church the term

1383
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:22,840
church willy nilly, but doesn't just look around for any

1384
01:26:23,399 --> 01:26:28,079
geopolitical event, any scientific advancement, and just well, there we are.

1385
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:29,319
Chapter seven is.

1386
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:32,560
Speaker 3: Here we go, turn the page, turn the comic book page.

1387
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 2: The trumpet is beginning to sound, you know, yeah, totally

1388
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:39,560
like a fade in is starting.

1389
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you set the stage right, getting your costumes.

1390
01:26:43,399 --> 01:26:45,359
Speaker 4: There's another key to this too that you can see

1391
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,119
in the The Orthodox have an advantage in this regard

1392
01:26:48,239 --> 01:26:51,960
because we have first, second, and third Macabees in our

1393
01:26:52,159 --> 01:26:54,279
in our Bible, and that actually helps us with this

1394
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:58,680
eschatology because a lot of the passages where Jesus talks

1395
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:02,000
about what's twenty one Matthew twenty four, what's called the

1396
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:06,399
alib discourse, those passages refer to an abomination of desolation,

1397
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:09,479
the abomination. Right, what is this? How do we know

1398
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,319
what this is? Well, if we know the Old Testament,

1399
01:27:11,359 --> 01:27:13,399
we know it really well because we know, for example,

1400
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:17,680
the Temple Israel was destroyed five eighty six BC. Right,

1401
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:21,920
the temple gets destroyed, gets the filed, that's the first defiling,

1402
01:27:22,159 --> 01:27:25,840
or the abomination of desolation, right when the Babylonians come in.

1403
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:30,079
Then people don't know this, but if you read the Maccabees,

1404
01:27:30,239 --> 01:27:33,800
you know that there's another mirrored abomination. This is the

1405
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:38,840
abomination of desolation of the next temple that Daniel writes about.

1406
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:41,840
So when Daniel writes about this famous abomination of desolation,

1407
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,920
this is after a five eighty six BC, Right, Daniel's

1408
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:49,000
writing about what's going to happen in this future Maccabean period.

1409
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:52,520
We get an abomination of the desolation of the Maccabees.

1410
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:56,319
And then in third Macabees there's another abomination with the

1411
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:00,319
Egyptian ruler told me, So we get another so there's

1412
01:28:00,359 --> 01:28:04,079
mirroring abominations of the filings of the temple. Right, So

1413
01:28:04,399 --> 01:28:07,039
if Jesus in his day is referring to another one,

1414
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:12,079
what would be the next The only possible fulfillment would

1415
01:28:12,119 --> 01:28:15,680
be the destruction of the temple, which happens forty years

1416
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:18,760
after Jesus talks about that seventy eighty. So we know

1417
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,760
that seventy eighty has to be one of these clear

1418
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:24,600
fulfillments of the abomination of desolation. And the last thing

1419
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:28,199
I would say on that is just that the future desolation,

1420
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:32,319
whatever that is, that's debated. Some of the church fathers

1421
01:28:32,399 --> 01:28:35,720
think that there will be a rebuilt temple, which would

1422
01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:38,640
be antichrist temple, and because it would be the reinstitution

1423
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,279
of the sacrifices that we're done away with and fulfilled

1424
01:28:42,279 --> 01:28:46,119
in Christ's animal sacrifices, many church fathers say that would

1425
01:28:46,159 --> 01:28:47,960
be a sign of the end because that would be

1426
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:53,520
Antichrist's temple. Some church fathers say, well, the final apostasy,

1427
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,159
the great apostasy that we read about in Paul's Letter

1428
01:28:56,199 --> 01:28:59,079
to the Thessalonians, has to be something not in an

1429
01:28:59,119 --> 01:29:01,840
actual temple, but in the church. So there's a bit

1430
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,680
of a debate amongst exegetes and theologians, church others as

1431
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,760
to whether the great apostasy and the when it's the

1432
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:12,119
text repulses, the man of sin will stand up in

1433
01:29:12,199 --> 01:29:14,319
the temple in the Church of God proclaim himself to

1434
01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:17,319
be God. Does that mean a spiritual temple of the

1435
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:20,319
Church where a man within the church causes an apostasy,

1436
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:24,520
or does it mean an actual, literal rebuilt temple in Israel.

1437
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:26,439
I tend to actually think, I mean, I think there

1438
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:29,239
will be an apostasy of the church whenever that is,

1439
01:29:30,119 --> 01:29:31,880
But I tend to think that it is talking about

1440
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:33,159
a rebuilt, rebuilt temple.

1441
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,279
Speaker 3: Jay, I just want to remind you that if something's debated,

1442
01:29:36,399 --> 01:29:39,000
that means there is no truth about it. So I

1443
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:43,640
just wanted to according to Daniel, that dude, that that

1444
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:44,399
was really funny.

1445
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 4: And by the way, he knows good and well when

1446
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,720
you get into the nuances of Islamic debates on the

1447
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:52,079
attributes of Allah, he knows good and well.

1448
01:29:52,199 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 2: They debate this all day long, and it's not clear

1449
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:58,279
and simple. That's just a sales pit. They actually had wolves.

1450
01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:04,239
Whether the Quran is created or uncreated, well, and anyone.

1451
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:09,840
Speaker 4: Is wrong, well, they'll call each other idolators in shirk

1452
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:13,600
over the anthropomorphic views. So Jake and Daniel believe in

1453
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:18,640
anthropomorphic views, and the other Muslims will say that they're

1454
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:20,840
committing shirk by doing that.

1455
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 3: Jay, would you debate Sneako or you think it's wrong

1456
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:25,800
to punch retards?

1457
01:30:27,319 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 4: I don't think Ko actually will debate anyone.

1458
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 3: No, he won't debate anyone. You No, I actually think

1459
01:30:35,079 --> 01:30:38,399
I think he's actually gonna I think he's gonna leave Islam.

1460
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:42,439
That's my hope. Meeting him in person, I think he

1461
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:45,199
occurs as like the little brother type, or he's just

1462
01:30:45,319 --> 01:30:47,560
like wide eyed and like I want to go do

1463
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:50,159
the truth man, like this kind of thing. I think

1464
01:30:50,199 --> 01:30:52,800
he can be. I mean, I know he can be influenced.

1465
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:54,800
So that's the good news about a young a young

1466
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:59,039
pup like that. So maybe debating him isn't even in

1467
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:00,439
the best process.

1468
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 2: Can I say? There was a super Chad that asked

1469
01:31:04,119 --> 01:31:06,800
if there was someone who is like the equivalent of

1470
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:13,239
the dispensationalists like the Islamic debate from yesterday, And I'm

1471
01:31:13,319 --> 01:31:16,680
not sure that there is any structure you have major

1472
01:31:17,119 --> 01:31:23,600
like pro zionists and people who have similar eschatologies, etc.

1473
01:31:24,039 --> 01:31:26,920
But I don't think there's any formal structure.

1474
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 4: I've never heard of a dispensational debate. I mean back

1475
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,079
in the days of like Monsen and Gentry and all that,

1476
01:31:32,279 --> 01:31:34,439
in like ninety nine or like the late ninetyes, mid

1477
01:31:34,479 --> 01:31:36,960
to late nineties, they were doing they were doing these

1478
01:31:37,039 --> 01:31:39,159
kinds of debates. But I haven't even heard of the

1479
01:31:39,239 --> 01:31:41,000
debate like that since the nineties.

1480
01:31:41,279 --> 01:31:45,239
Speaker 2: And nowadays you just hear apocalypticism and pro Israel stuff

1481
01:31:46,079 --> 01:31:51,199
John Hagy and crew, you know, just going away, whoever blissious,

1482
01:31:51,279 --> 01:31:51,840
who wish you?

1483
01:31:57,319 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, this guy, I will and I will tell you

1484
01:32:03,199 --> 01:32:07,239
always support Israel forever and ever and ever until the end,

1485
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:11,720
until the fire. Like this is basically modern politics, which

1486
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,399
we'll get into. Uh. I think that's going to be

1487
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:20,079
actually the very interesting, palatable more palatable with this. A

1488
01:32:20,159 --> 01:32:24,119
lot of the theology is important, but well you.

1489
01:32:24,159 --> 01:32:26,319
Speaker 4: Think of this as an evangelical thing, which it is,

1490
01:32:27,199 --> 01:32:29,800
But I mean Rat Singer in his one of his

1491
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:33,800
uh later books before he stepped Down, was basically affirming

1492
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:37,159
a form of dual dual covenant theology for the Jews.

1493
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:42,119
So this this idea has basically spilled over into the

1494
01:32:42,319 --> 01:32:43,359
Roman Calolics as well.

1495
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is driven by a

1496
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:50,560
certain mid century event that promotes a lot of guilt.

1497
01:32:51,359 --> 01:32:55,920
So now even though you disagree with it theologically, yeah,

1498
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:01,079
you know, sort of feel bad about it, so you know,

1499
01:33:01,239 --> 01:33:04,600
you can't really deny any of it lest you look bad.

1500
01:33:05,399 --> 01:33:07,479
And then the only people who stand up to it

1501
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:08,600
are usually crazy.

1502
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:14,560
Speaker 3: Many religions, one covenant is the title Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

1503
01:33:15,119 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the six Things. So the so called trad

1504
01:33:18,039 --> 01:33:21,319
pope right was saying all kinds of crazy stuff.

1505
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 3: So okay, we'll just press play and see where this

1506
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:28,239
guy takes us. I can't even tell. I don't know

1507
01:33:28,279 --> 01:33:30,920
if it matters the person who's presenting this, if he's

1508
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,319
advocating or just simply described. I don't know if it matters.

1509
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 6: Eight of Israel and Christ is actually ruling through ethnic

1510
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:42,640
Jewish people during this millennial period. I don't think anybody

1511
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,279
in the history of the Church until Darby had ever

1512
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:50,640
actually suggested that particular hypothesis. The church is removed, As

1513
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:53,239
I say, the term of art that is used is

1514
01:33:53,279 --> 01:33:55,760
that the church is raptured. The term is not found

1515
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,920
in the Bible, but It's usually an allusion to First

1516
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:02,399
Thessalonians chapter five. So the church is taken out in

1517
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,479
a kind of blink of an eye sort of event,

1518
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:10,960
and that takes place before this millennial era begins. Old

1519
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:15,479
Testament prophecies that look forward to a time of rich blessing,

1520
01:34:16,359 --> 01:34:22,800
And of course the Old Testament has many of these, Isaiah, Zachariah, Ezekiel, others, all.

1521
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:24,119
Speaker 4: Sort of look forward.

1522
01:34:24,199 --> 01:34:26,119
Speaker 6: For the most part, all of the prophets have some

1523
01:34:26,279 --> 01:34:29,479
idea of a great period of blessing in the future.

1524
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 3: Generally speak trump trump, trump, trump, is that the is

1525
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:36,880
that the is that one of the do you think

1526
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,199
that could be smuggled in as that? Or you get

1527
01:34:39,239 --> 01:34:41,840
to choose whatever that is? Is it the eighties, I

1528
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:42,920
mean the eighties were.

1529
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:48,359
Speaker 2: I sent you that picture that the maga hat is

1530
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:49,359
the muck of the beast?

1531
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:53,359
Speaker 3: Right right, I'm interpreting this all wrong.

1532
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 6: Those have been identified with God's work among his people

1533
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:03,920
in some sense or other in unfolding history. Classical Christianity

1534
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:06,880
would say those are describing God's blessings on the world

1535
01:35:07,359 --> 01:35:07,680
through his.

1536
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:09,560
Speaker 4: Work in the church, that sort of thing.

1537
01:35:10,199 --> 01:35:15,279
Speaker 6: However, Darby says all of those predictions actually refer to

1538
01:35:15,399 --> 01:35:19,039
the Kingdom, not anything that God is doing through the Church.

1539
01:35:19,279 --> 01:35:24,199
So those prophecies are actually prophecies of a coming millennium.

1540
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:29,680
Immediately before the millennium is a period that Darby called

1541
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:32,680
the Great Tribulation, borrowing that term, of course, from the

1542
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:37,039
New Testament itself. This is a seven year period of time.

1543
01:35:38,159 --> 01:35:42,239
It precedes the second Coming of Christ. It is also

1544
01:35:42,399 --> 01:35:46,239
identified by Darby. Again he appears to be the first

1545
01:35:46,359 --> 01:35:48,119
one to suggest this hypothesis.

1546
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 4: He identifies the.

1547
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:53,359
Speaker 3: I have a question, it might be really dumb when

1548
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:56,920
people refer to the coming of Christ. Are they including

1549
01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:01,119
the birth and manifestation of Christ's man as the first

1550
01:36:01,319 --> 01:36:03,600
or are they talking about the resurrection as the first?

1551
01:36:04,039 --> 01:36:07,640
Speaker 4: The second coming, the coming into Okay, that's what they're

1552
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:08,159
talking about.

1553
01:36:08,319 --> 01:36:12,159
Speaker 6: Okay, seven year period of the Great Tribulation as the

1554
01:36:12,319 --> 01:36:17,279
seventieth Week of Daniel. Now, if you've been in the

1555
01:36:17,359 --> 01:36:21,560
class or of otherwise study these things, you know, yeah.

1556
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

1557
01:36:22,039 --> 01:36:23,560
Speaker 4: You probably don't want me to keep interrupting.

1558
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:26,319
Speaker 3: No, you can keep it. This is really you guys

1559
01:36:26,359 --> 01:36:27,880
are driving this basically.

1560
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:30,399
Speaker 4: So really important with Daniel's seventieth Week, because it's a

1561
01:36:30,479 --> 01:36:35,239
really important prophecy for Christianity, because it's basically Daniel in

1562
01:36:35,359 --> 01:36:39,920
his book looks back to Jeremiah and he realizes certain

1563
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:41,800
things about what God's going to do in history. He

1564
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:45,439
says in Daniel by reading Jeremiah, and Jeremiah talked about

1565
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:49,760
seventy seventies and dividing up times into sevens and seventies,

1566
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:51,960
and so Daniel comes up with this idea that there

1567
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:55,279
would be a determined amount of time for the nation

1568
01:36:55,359 --> 01:36:59,520
of Israel. Now remember Daniel's writing in Captivity, so he's

1569
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:03,439
writing as if the nation will be restored, and then

1570
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:07,239
he predicts that there's this period of basically seven years

1571
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:10,960
time seventy which is four hundred and ninety right, the

1572
01:37:11,119 --> 01:37:15,319
last seven years is this seven year period that Daniel

1573
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,359
was talking about, and he says, in this last seven years,

1574
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:21,039
this is really important because this is a really stupid

1575
01:37:21,079 --> 01:37:24,800
thing that the dispensationalists due. Daniel says that in this

1576
01:37:25,399 --> 01:37:28,680
last week, which is a week, is just seven years,

1577
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:32,199
it's a week of years. This last seven years will

1578
01:37:32,279 --> 01:37:37,720
include the everybody says, seventy weeks are determined, and then

1579
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:41,079
I'll skip down to the last Basically, there will be

1580
01:37:41,159 --> 01:37:47,119
an end of lawlessness atonement for sin. Everlasting righteousness comes

1581
01:37:47,199 --> 01:37:50,840
in the fulfilling and sealing up of visions and prophecies,

1582
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:53,479
which means that there's no prophecies after. There's no new

1583
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:55,800
visions and prophecies after the time of the Messiah. So

1584
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,840
we don't need Mohammed and we don't need Joseph Smith

1585
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:03,159
and to anoint the Holy One. And then he says,

1586
01:38:03,239 --> 01:38:08,760
this will be the coming of Messiah the Prince. Okay, Now,

1587
01:38:09,279 --> 01:38:12,960
the dummy dispensationalists are so stupid that they go with

1588
01:38:13,079 --> 01:38:15,880
the masoretic text, not the subtusion, because subtusient makes it

1589
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:18,840
clear that it's Messiah the Prince. The Mazoretic text says

1590
01:38:19,359 --> 01:38:23,279
the Prince to come. They say that's the Antichrist. And

1591
01:38:23,399 --> 01:38:27,199
so they actually say that this last week is paused

1592
01:38:28,399 --> 01:38:33,479
when so Jesus comes, and then because the Jews rejected Christ,

1593
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,880
the last seven years is paused to be the seven

1594
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:40,560
year tribulation thousands of years into the future after the

1595
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:43,239
time of Christ. Okay, there's nothing in the passage that

1596
01:38:43,319 --> 01:38:46,159
says anything about this. The passage actually says all of

1597
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:48,960
these things are fulfilled when the Messiah comes. This is

1598
01:38:49,079 --> 01:38:53,920
Daniel nine twenty four to twenty seven. Right, excuse me, right,

1599
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:56,159
and then it even says that the Messiah will be

1600
01:38:56,319 --> 01:39:00,880
cut off in verse twenty six. This the fulfillment of

1601
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:03,000
the desillation, so we teach.

1602
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,199
Speaker 3: So they introduced as sort of Nintendo arbitrary pause in

1603
01:39:07,279 --> 01:39:08,119
their in their game.

1604
01:39:09,359 --> 01:39:12,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, because though it's identified in the very passes that it's.

1605
01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:15,960
Speaker 4: The Messiah, the Prince in especially for the subtuagen, then

1606
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:19,560
the next verse says that after this time the anointed

1607
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:22,239
One will be put to death. The death of the

1608
01:39:22,279 --> 01:39:26,039
Messiah is so clear, right, idiots destroy one of the

1609
01:39:26,079 --> 01:39:29,279
strongest proofs of Christianity and the prediction of the Messiah

1610
01:39:29,319 --> 01:39:32,560
being put to death. These idiots destroy it. Make it

1611
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:34,880
something two thousand years, three thousand years in the future.

1612
01:39:35,239 --> 01:39:37,640
Speaker 2: And by the way, the Jews were very aware of

1613
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:40,880
this timeline in the time of Christ. And if that's

1614
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:44,000
why people were already you know, if you claim they

1615
01:39:44,079 --> 01:39:47,880
start asking you questions, you know, they don't just hear what, well,

1616
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:52,159
that's ridiculous. No, No, they were very aware of the timeline.

1617
01:39:52,199 --> 01:39:54,960
With the seventy weeks of years, you know, that's four

1618
01:39:55,039 --> 01:39:58,159
hundred and ninety years years and numbers in general in

1619
01:39:58,279 --> 01:40:03,159
the ancient world und it up massively. You know, it's

1620
01:40:03,199 --> 01:40:07,119
simply how things work. We are very methodical nowadays, in

1621
01:40:07,279 --> 01:40:10,760
large part due to the availability of writing and material,

1622
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:14,560
both as in ink and as in a medium of writing.

1623
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:19,720
So we are much more I want to say anal

1624
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:21,039
about it, but yeah, we.

1625
01:40:21,199 --> 01:40:24,720
Speaker 4: Mean Rabbinic Jews has Saidic Jews they actually pronounce a

1626
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:27,840
curse on gentiles that read this passage because this passage

1627
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:32,600
is it's so difficult for them that they'll like, they do.

1628
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 3: A curse on the gentiles that they just spit they

1629
01:40:35,119 --> 01:40:37,560
just as randomly like drinks.

1630
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:39,159
Speaker 4: I think they do it on Puim. I can't remember that.

1631
01:40:39,199 --> 01:40:41,039
They like, they'll drink wine and spit at the Jews

1632
01:40:41,079 --> 01:40:41,359
that read.

1633
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have super they have like they have super

1634
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:46,399
soakers and they just spreading people.

1635
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:48,800
Speaker 2: Who is it Pentecostal?

1636
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:51,960
Speaker 3: Wait okay, wait a second. Are you saying that the

1637
01:40:52,079 --> 01:40:56,960
dispensationalist view is partial to a it just happens to

1638
01:40:57,039 --> 01:41:00,399
be partial to a bagel view? Yes, that that the

1639
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:03,880
best possible thing you can appeal to as far as

1640
01:41:04,119 --> 01:41:10,000
a prophecy of Jesus as God is rejected, which is

1641
01:41:10,079 --> 01:41:12,680
weird if you're taking a Christian view. Right, So you'd

1642
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:15,399
be like, why would you pick the one thing that

1643
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:18,800
really sets people into a into a spurgy frenzy.

1644
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:21,439
Speaker 4: Right. So, and on top of this, because it's such

1645
01:41:21,479 --> 01:41:24,600
a damaging, dangerous passage, I also think that for they're

1646
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:26,520
not actually allowed to read this for a long time

1647
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,279
unless they're older Jews, and there's some rule about not

1648
01:41:29,359 --> 01:41:34,239
being able to read it until they're so uh or

1649
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:36,039
or or maybe they're not allowed to talk on it

1650
01:41:36,079 --> 01:41:36,720
in the synagogue.

1651
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:36,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1652
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:39,720
Speaker 4: There's there's some weird structures on it. But what's weird

1653
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:44,600
about that is the passage is so clear and it

1654
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:48,000
even describes the death of the anointed one that in

1655
01:41:48,359 --> 01:41:52,359
the Talmud they have a position that there's two messiahs. Right,

1656
01:41:52,439 --> 01:41:54,239
so you'll hear if you hear, if you're Jews debate,

1657
01:41:54,239 --> 01:41:57,039
they'll say there's no passages that talks about the death

1658
01:41:57,039 --> 01:41:57,680
of the Messiah.

1659
01:41:58,520 --> 01:41:58,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1660
01:41:59,039 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 4: However, they're being disingenuous because the Talmut actually says there's

1661
01:42:03,079 --> 01:42:06,279
two Messiahs, one of whom dies. They believe in Messiah

1662
01:42:06,319 --> 01:42:09,600
Ben Joseph and Messiah have David and one of them dies,

1663
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:12,520
so they even believe the Messiah dies. But to get

1664
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:15,079
around these passages they've invented to Matua from Messiahs.

1665
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like with this position of elongating that last week, you,

1666
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:28,319
with all Protestantism, you tie yourself to a certain conclusion

1667
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:33,439
and then you reverse engineer any interpretation, including you know,

1668
01:42:34,239 --> 01:42:39,479
an uneasy relationship for example of Luther with the Epistle

1669
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:44,439
of James, because you obviously you need to come to

1670
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:47,479
this conclusion. So if anything is a bother to it,

1671
01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:50,640
you're going to reject it or at least discredit it.

1672
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:55,239
And it's a very commonplace thing. So there's no way

1673
01:42:55,319 --> 01:42:57,760
this is saying what it's saying. It has to say

1674
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:02,520
something that is in line with my expectation. And then

1675
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:06,600
we have to listen to these exact same people tell

1676
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:11,720
us how we apply different interpretive schemas in some self

1677
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:16,960
serving manner. And it's again, there's no such thing as

1678
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:22,560
plain reading. But if we just read it, it's pretty clear.

1679
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:23,600
Speaker 6: Now.

1680
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:26,840
Speaker 2: As I said, there's no such thing as plain reading.

1681
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:30,600
But it works with everything else. It works with Isaiah,

1682
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,600
it works with the salts. We do it.

1683
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:34,359
Speaker 4: That's a great point.

1684
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it locks with everything else.

1685
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:42,960
Speaker 4: They believe in the simple, clear perspecuity of scripture, simple meaning. However,

1686
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:44,640
when you get to Daniel nine, oh no, no, no,

1687
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:47,800
there's this like pause, and it's two thousand years later,

1688
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:48,640
and it's crazy.

1689
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of a sudden, perspecuity is gone. And then

1690
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:58,039
they established some type of hierarchy of what is clear

1691
01:43:58,439 --> 01:44:01,000
isn't what is less clear, and then the more clear

1692
01:44:01,079 --> 01:44:05,000
interprets the less clear. And usually that means, well, what

1693
01:44:05,159 --> 01:44:08,159
agrees with me is more clear, but disagrees with me.

1694
01:44:08,319 --> 01:44:12,479
Should color be colored by what agrees with me?

1695
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 3: That sounds very sounds very Islamic.

1696
01:44:17,920 --> 01:44:21,680
Speaker 4: And Judaism all have the same like simple meaning and

1697
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:22,520
book worship.

1698
01:44:23,319 --> 01:44:27,079
Speaker 2: Speaking of not talking about things in public. In the

1699
01:44:27,159 --> 01:44:30,479
last couple of years, there's been a complete collapse in

1700
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:36,439
the Islamic argument of the miraculous perfect preservation of the Qur'an.

1701
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:39,680
I don't know how anyone ever got to that point,

1702
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,680
considering what the hardiths say. You know why it was

1703
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:46,439
codified in the first place was because a lot of

1704
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:50,640
it was lost with all the reciters. Quran means the recitations.

1705
01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:53,800
You know, all these reciters dying in battle or of

1706
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:58,000
old age or whatever means of death. So they decide, okay,

1707
01:44:58,199 --> 01:45:00,399
we need to write it down. Everything we have, we

1708
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:02,920
need to write it down and keep it right. And

1709
01:45:03,079 --> 01:45:06,800
that was replete with problems. But a couple of years ago,

1710
01:45:07,159 --> 01:45:10,079
Sneako's mentor, Mohammed jah I, just had a guy on

1711
01:45:10,279 --> 01:45:16,840
this that it's not just a guy that's Yasakadi father wrote,

1712
01:45:17,319 --> 01:45:21,680
his father wrote a book on the sciences of the Qur'an.

1713
01:45:22,319 --> 01:45:26,199
So he's not just you know, someone who's well informed.

1714
01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:30,039
He has a pedigree even with these types of things.

1715
01:45:30,399 --> 01:45:35,920
And there are multiple you know, not interviews, but like

1716
01:45:36,239 --> 01:45:41,840
lectures or things of him where he to how shall

1717
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:47,239
we say, like an uneducated audience, like plebs. He says,

1718
01:45:47,359 --> 01:45:51,199
no perfect preservation, you know, every dot and no difference.

1719
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:54,079
But then when he talks to as they call the

1720
01:45:54,119 --> 01:45:57,199
people of knowledge, which is to say, the scholars, it's

1721
01:45:57,319 --> 01:45:59,880
not that clear. And when a job had him on

1722
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:06,039
a job kept pushing it until he said, these things

1723
01:46:06,079 --> 01:46:12,199
should not be discussed among you know, before the masses, Yochi,

1724
01:46:14,399 --> 01:46:17,000
you shouldn't talk about this. But it was just common

1725
01:46:17,079 --> 01:46:20,279
as filthy commoners here. This is something for us highly

1726
01:46:20,439 --> 01:46:24,000
educated people, which is a very very common thing with

1727
01:46:24,119 --> 01:46:29,720
mystic religions. You know, where you get this progressive revelation,

1728
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:33,319
so to speak, where you get more and more knowledge.

1729
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:36,000
This is what you'll get, as Jay said, you will

1730
01:46:36,039 --> 01:46:40,479
get it with Islam and Judaism, especially with problem parts,

1731
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:46,319
and then Protestantism. I don't know, they don't do that.

1732
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:50,119
They just sort of wing everything, and I don't know.

1733
01:46:50,239 --> 01:46:53,279
It's sort of like you never let them know your

1734
01:46:53,359 --> 01:46:56,159
next move if you can't really predict.

1735
01:46:56,800 --> 01:46:59,920
Speaker 4: That's providential that you said that past because literally I

1736
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:02,960
had just watched that video two nights ago. I'd never

1737
01:47:03,079 --> 01:47:05,439
seen it in this interview, and I just happened upon

1738
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:09,000
this interview. It popped up in my my feed. It's

1739
01:47:09,119 --> 01:47:15,560
called that there's a guy who captured it and kind

1740
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:18,840
of made a summation video. He's he's a guy called

1741
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,840
the Friendly ex Muslim. And if you're looking for this video,

1742
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:24,439
it's called the interview Muhammada Jab tried to Hide from

1743
01:47:24,479 --> 01:47:27,840
the World, and it's it's like a twenty minute version

1744
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:31,840
of what Pasha is talking about. I highly recommend that

1745
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:35,000
because you'll see like Muhammad Joab starting to like freak out.

1746
01:47:35,039 --> 01:47:36,560
That's what this guy's saying, right.

1747
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:39,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, things things. That was a couple of years ago.

1748
01:47:39,359 --> 01:47:42,279
I know. David would had like a stream to commemorate

1749
01:47:42,359 --> 01:47:46,640
like four years since the interview, because then they kept spamming,

1750
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:54,439
you know, striking for what's copyright copyright ringement, people who

1751
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:59,479
would clip and repost it. Yaskaldi did that and YouTube

1752
01:47:59,520 --> 01:48:02,560
obviously obliged, so it's not as easy to find, but

1753
01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:07,039
it did happen. And basically everyone who is dealing with

1754
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:12,199
anti Islamic polemics save that video, so there's no way

1755
01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:15,760
to delete it. It's just difficult to post and people

1756
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:18,760
who host it somewhere else. You know, it's a very

1757
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:22,960
important thing to find, but that has been destroyed. Another

1758
01:48:23,039 --> 01:48:26,199
thing that's been really destroyed as the scientific miracles, etc.

1759
01:48:26,640 --> 01:48:32,319
So it's a religion collapse. They you know, strike their

1760
01:48:32,479 --> 01:48:37,479
chests and pretend like, oh we are strong bitah, but no,

1761
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:42,159
it's really going poorly for them. As I said Albania.

1762
01:48:42,279 --> 01:48:45,680
We have Albanians in the chat recently in.

1763
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:47,239
Speaker 3: The Terrible Terrible People.

1764
01:48:48,279 --> 01:48:49,479
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't call them people.

1765
01:48:52,399 --> 01:48:55,000
Speaker 3: Hey, listen, one interruption here, Jay, I want to get

1766
01:48:55,039 --> 01:48:57,560
a sense of you and Posha's timeline. I do want

1767
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:01,680
to get into geopolitics because it's very accessible to my audience.

1768
01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:05,479
This is all important, but dense. I just want to

1769
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:07,239
get a sense of your timeline.

1770
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:11,680
Speaker 2: In the sense of the stream.

1771
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:14,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, how much time you have to because I want

1772
01:49:14,119 --> 01:49:18,119
to you guys have to s especially okay you have

1773
01:49:18,239 --> 01:49:21,399
beer Jay, especially because I want you here to go

1774
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:26,000
over the modern implications what we're dealing with now in

1775
01:49:26,119 --> 01:49:28,479
our very cryptic way that we have to do it. Probably.

1776
01:49:30,159 --> 01:49:32,079
I just want to get a sense you you can

1777
01:49:32,359 --> 01:49:34,079
drive when you want to go into that, That's what

1778
01:49:34,119 --> 01:49:37,840
I'm saying. But I just want to give enough time

1779
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:38,760
for it so that.

1780
01:49:38,920 --> 01:49:42,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're limited in time, yeah, me, you are

1781
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:44,279
the expert for the geopolitical aspect.

1782
01:49:44,399 --> 01:49:46,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to miss out on that part.

1783
01:49:46,159 --> 01:49:49,239
Speaker 4: So well, I wouldn't even say an expert. I mean,

1784
01:49:49,279 --> 01:49:51,319
I just I mean, there's not a whole lot really,

1785
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,479
that's that mysterious thing. It's pretty kind of easy to

1786
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:57,840
follow and figure out basically. Just you know, a lot

1787
01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:03,560
of evangelical prophecy writers for many, many years, probably going

1788
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:06,239
back to the eighties and nineties, and they've had a

1789
01:50:06,359 --> 01:50:12,680
very close relationship with Apak. We have certain figures who

1790
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:17,159
have written who are Jewish writers, who've written famous prophecy books,

1791
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:24,359
who work closely with foreign nations, shall we say, And

1792
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:28,319
those are what they typically do in those prophecy books,

1793
01:50:28,359 --> 01:50:31,159
even the fiction books that are very popular, they will

1794
01:50:31,359 --> 01:50:36,319
promote the enemies of America and Jesus is almost always

1795
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:40,800
Russians Chinese and they will usually just come on, yeah,

1796
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:44,960
they loosely copy paste them onto Gog and Magog. Right,

1797
01:50:46,199 --> 01:50:49,800
there's this rabbinic tradition. I think that there's theories about

1798
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:52,319
where the people groups from the Table of Nations in

1799
01:50:52,399 --> 01:50:55,600
Genesis ten went out into different regions of the world,

1800
01:50:55,720 --> 01:50:58,319
and so Gog and Magog and some of the rabbinic

1801
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:02,960
ideas are you know, Russians and people like that. Anyway,

1802
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:05,960
it's a lot of speculation in terms of that stuff,

1803
01:51:06,119 --> 01:51:11,960
but it's utilized in terms of geopolitics to push just

1804
01:51:12,119 --> 01:51:18,720
anything that's against you know, American, Israeli, Atlantis UK interests

1805
01:51:19,239 --> 01:51:23,159
must be one of these predicted prophetic in times inmates.

1806
01:51:23,319 --> 01:51:23,960
That's that simpoint.

1807
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Jay, do you want Bosh real quick before

1808
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:31,880
we get into geopolitics. Do you want me to continue

1809
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:36,119
and do any more? Uh more theological? So it's still

1810
01:51:36,199 --> 01:51:38,319
interesting to me. I like it, the Chat likes it.

1811
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:43,479
I just want to want to count for your time. Jay, Okay, Okay,

1812
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:44,520
we'll keep going.

1813
01:51:46,039 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 2: Right back.

1814
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:49,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Pah amazingly doesn't have a catheter.

1815
01:51:50,199 --> 01:51:52,840
Speaker 4: Actually, I'm going to go to the restaurant. I'm actually

1816
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:54,720
wearing a I don't want to go.

1817
01:51:55,359 --> 01:51:59,279
Speaker 3: Good, could go change the diaper. Well, and this is

1818
01:51:59,279 --> 01:52:01,760
a good time to look at some super chats, so

1819
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:04,159
I don't miss them out. Okay, why did the Muslims

1820
01:52:04,199 --> 01:52:08,800
say that slavery argument like the atheist Well, because FB,

1821
01:52:09,239 --> 01:52:12,039
if you're talking about Daniel or the other dude, they

1822
01:52:12,079 --> 01:52:16,239
don't really have a standard because you know, if you

1823
01:52:16,319 --> 01:52:20,560
saw their argument was not their argument was conceding, even

1824
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:24,039
with the pedo thing. They were like, well, you guys

1825
01:52:24,079 --> 01:52:25,840
hold this too. That's why they try to pin Ja

1826
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:33,039
against Sam by appealing to to Aquinas. And so I

1827
01:52:33,159 --> 01:52:39,199
think I think the Christian and the Muslim have to

1828
01:52:39,359 --> 01:52:44,159
would have to have a debate about that particular item itself, slavery,

1829
01:52:44,239 --> 01:52:48,000
because Christianity like what you call slavery as far as

1830
01:52:48,119 --> 01:52:53,199
like capturing, like for instance, slavery. Let's say there's a

1831
01:52:53,279 --> 01:52:57,640
woman in the wilderness and in the time of of

1832
01:53:01,439 --> 01:53:04,439
like in a time of a horrid circumstance, you find

1833
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:08,199
a woman in the woods now a woman. From a

1834
01:53:08,279 --> 01:53:12,239
Christian view, you can you could actually use force to

1835
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:14,520
pick up the woman, put her in a carriage, and

1836
01:53:14,640 --> 01:53:17,680
remove her from the wilderness. Now would a modern person

1837
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:22,720
say that slavery acting against autonomy will? Sure, But from

1838
01:53:22,760 --> 01:53:26,680
the Christian view, you're not arguing from you know, bodily

1839
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:30,640
autonomy and consent at this point, you're arguing from a

1840
01:53:30,720 --> 01:53:34,239
larger position. So this it really brings up the question

1841
01:53:34,319 --> 01:53:37,439
of like, what is even considered the word slavery. Obviously,

1842
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:42,520
the atheist Reddit, to your always use slavery incorrectly. They

1843
01:53:42,520 --> 01:53:45,199
always use this modern term of a trans and latic

1844
01:53:45,319 --> 01:53:48,319
slave concept, and then they transpose it into a biblical

1845
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:52,399
historical context, which is inaccurate. But even if you granted that,

1846
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:56,399
the atheist still has no justification for why any of

1847
01:53:56,479 --> 01:53:59,560
this is wrong. You know, so they're not even doing

1848
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:02,880
an internal critique, which Jay and myself and many others.

1849
01:54:03,359 --> 01:54:06,000
I don't know what it's going to take to train

1850
01:54:06,239 --> 01:54:11,600
our opposition in this this distinction called an internal critique.

1851
01:54:11,680 --> 01:54:14,960
I don't know what's going on with their minds. I

1852
01:54:15,359 --> 01:54:16,880
don't know how to do. I wish they would do it,

1853
01:54:16,920 --> 01:54:19,319
because it's actually more fun to do to debate that way.

1854
01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:22,640
So Jay, you can answer this because you were in

1855
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:26,000
the debate itself. Why did the Muslim say the slavery

1856
01:54:26,119 --> 01:54:26,600
argument like