WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.080 With the Lucky land Slots, you can get lucky just 2 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:04.080 about anywhere. 3 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:07.799 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 4 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:09.759 weather's fine, but we're just gonna circle up here a 5 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:13.039 while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's 6 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:15.720 just these cash prizes add up quick, so I suggest 7 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:17.719 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 8 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:18.839 start getting lucky. 9 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:22.559 Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Are you 10 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:26.320 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 11 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:30.280 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 12 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:32.840 Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight 13 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.079 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 14 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.719 slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over at 15 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:39.520 the person sitting next to me, and you know what 16 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.359 they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence, 17 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:44.799 I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa 18 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:47.240 Casino's home to hundreds oft casino style games you can 19 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.200 play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 20 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.520 So sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com to 21 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.759 claim you're free. Welcome bonus. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com 22 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.200 and Live the Chumba Laine. 23 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:01.000 No, We're Necessary, I Daly Voidhever Everybody Lost coctis Et England. 24 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:11.680 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 25 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.760 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:20.959 written about them Geese, Bundy, Dalhmer, The Night Stalker DTK. 27 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.640 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 28 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:29.840 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 29 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.719 your host, journalist and author Dan. 30 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:47.840 Zufanski, Good evening between the summers of nineteen sixty seven 31 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:52.519 through nineteen sixty nine, before the term serial killer was coined, 32 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.719 a predatory killer stock the campuses of Eastern Michigan University 33 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:00.359 in the University of Michigan, seeking pray until he made 34 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.799 the arrogant mistake of killing his last victim in the 35 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.920 basement of his uncle's home. All American boy John Norman 36 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.199 Collins was arrested, tried, and convicted of the strangulation murder 37 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:14.000 of Karen Sue Binnemann. The other murders attributed to Collins 38 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:17.719 never went to trial with one exception, and soon became 39 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:21.240 cold cases. With the benefit of fifty years of hindsight, 40 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.240 hundreds of vintage newspaper articles, thousands of police reports, and 41 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:31.400 countless interviews. Terror in Yipsilanti John Norman Collins Unmasked tells 42 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:34.879 the stories of the other victims, recreates the infamous trial 43 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.479 that took Collins off the streets, and details Collin's time 44 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:43.560 spent in prison. Terror in Yipsilante compiles an array of 45 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:48.639 physical and circumstantial evidence, drawing an unmistakable portrait of the 46 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:53.599 sadistic murderer who slaughtered these innocent young women. The book 47 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.000 they were featuring this evening is Terror in Ypsilanti John 48 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:02.199 Norman Collins Unmasked with my special guest, journalist and author 49 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.599 Gregory A. Fournier. Welcome to the program, and thank you 50 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:08.520 very much for this interview. Gregory Hey Fournier. 51 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:14.719 Yeah, I'm very excited about it. This is a story 52 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:21.759 that was pretty much buried for fifty years, and I 53 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.759 felt that it was about time for the facts to 54 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:30.280 be aired. And it's done quite well. It's been out 55 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:38.520 a couple of years and people are very generous with 56 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.800 their praise and it's been a great experience. 57 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.159 Just tell us before we launch into this and get 58 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:49.680 right down to the events. Starting in nineteen sixty seven, 59 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.960 in your book, tell us just about the developments briefly 60 00:03:55.199 --> 00:04:00.680 about this miniseries plan for adaptation of Terror in Yipsilani. 61 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:08.759 Yes, a Canadian uh actually Toronto Media company about a 62 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:14.919 two year option to uh uh develop Terror in Enpsilani. 63 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.279 And at first they were thinking about a two hour movie, 64 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:24.560 but the span of what happened and uh the ins 65 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:30.360 and outs of the plot line could couldn't be done 66 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:34.279 in two hours. And so they came back with an 67 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:38.639 idea for an eight part mini series and uh, I'm 68 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:43.240 hoping in February to look over the the uh uh 69 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:48.000 the plot outline, story arc of the eight episodes and 70 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:53.680 uh uh maybe have some input into it. Before you know, 71 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:55.720 it goes to the next step. And I'm very very 72 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:56.600 excited about it. 73 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.199 I well, as as you should be. It sounds very 74 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:04.879 very promising. Let's get to August seventh, nineteen sixty seven. 75 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:08.360 As you opened the book, two teens were about to 76 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.480 plow a cornfield on some farmland. One of the teens 77 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:15.560 father least in Superior Township, just north of Eastern Michigan 78 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.920 University campus. It was an all area known as a 79 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:24.439 lever's lane. So they heard some voices in a vehicle's 80 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:29.319 door slam. Tell us what these two teens heard and 81 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.399 what they reported, tell us about what happens that day 82 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.759 August seventh. 83 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:38.319 Yeah, Well, they were in the lot I think they 84 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:43.279 were sixteen seventeen years old and putting gas into a 85 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:47.000 tractor and they were to plow a field for their father, 86 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:52.040 who at least, you know, some farmland on a deserted farm. 87 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:59.680 The farm itself was known as the Scottney Brothers place, 88 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.319 and the Scotney brothers had been long long dead and 89 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:09.079 the farm went into receivership, like so many of the 90 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.399 farms in that area had done during the thirties and 91 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:17.279 forties and so on. So there were lots of these 92 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:22.319 abandoned farms. And they're filling up the tractor with some 93 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:27.519 gas and they hear a car door slam actually open, 94 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:32.519 and then well, what's going on? So they were walking 95 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.879 around the barn and there was a horseshoe driveway coming 96 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:39.959 in and out of the place, and just as they 97 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:45.600 came to a rise, they saw or heard a car leave, 98 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.879 and you know, they said, well, you know, but then 99 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:55.399 they smelled something that smelled like what it was the 100 00:06:55.560 --> 00:07:01.800 decomposition of flesh and this happened. Happened in Michigan and 101 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.240 uh a farm area that's also known to uh uh 102 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:10.079 you have lots of white tailed deer, and to see 103 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:15.160 a dead deer carcass uh in the woods is not 104 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.040 that rare. And they went up and they uh uh 105 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:23.360 you know, the smell was getting worse and worse, and 106 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:31.439 they saw this body and uh they thought it was 107 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:36.000 just a deer. It was a nude body and uh 108 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:39.879 and then one of the boys noticed that there was 109 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:43.519 an earring, and you know, there was an ear with 110 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.839 an earring attached, and and they both freaked out. They 111 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:50.040 got in the car and they ran right to the 112 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:56.439 uh uh uh State Police in Ifslane and uh you know, 113 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:01.839 they sent out a group of people to investigate and 114 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.240 to cut to the chase. This is one of the 115 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:11.680 worst crime scenes that these state policemen had ever seen. 116 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:14.959 Her body had been sitting out in the elements for 117 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:23.279 thirty days, and you know, it was horrific. And I 118 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:28.319 do explain it in the book, but I prefer not 119 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.879 to right now over the air. But it was a 120 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:40.399 bad situation. And then two weeks later, the Detroit riots 121 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:48.919 occurred in nineteen sixty seven and Mary's investigation, her case, 122 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.679 everything just got pushed way off on the back page 123 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:59.320 and for the next month everything was about the riots, 124 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:01.399 in the after math of the riots and so on, 125 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:09.399 so people in short forgot about Mary Fleager. But the police, 126 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:17.720 the policeman who was investigating, told the parents that if 127 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.000 we don't catch this guy with in the next thirty days, 128 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.960 he's going to kill again. Within a year, and almost 129 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:30.679 to the day, I think it was two days shy 130 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:37.840 of a year, the second body turned up and and 131 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:39.600 then you know, went on from there. 132 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:44.600 So you talk about the second person co ed and 133 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:48.759 these are all co eds from the university campus and 134 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:53.320 they this was Joan Yeah, and this is j. 135 00:09:55.799 --> 00:10:01.799 Yeah. She was a twenty year old who sophomore. And 136 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:07.960 there's a little backstory with her uh situation, but she 137 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:14.840 was by all accounts, just a very cheerful, positive, UH 138 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:21.840 young woman. She worked in the union, in the cafeteria 139 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:28.480 service at McKinney Union, and just just a very very 140 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:37.799 nice young woman. Anyway, she's having dinner with her parents 141 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:42.080 on a weekend where she had gone home for the weekend, 142 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:43.840 and it was Sunday, and they took her to a 143 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:50.440 restaurant called hobbs in Epsilani, and she was real jumpy. 144 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.600 She just you know, she wanted to get back. And 145 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:54.399 she told her parents, you know, I've got a big 146 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:57.519 testomer I got to study. You know, I can't linger here. 147 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.159 So they had a quick dinner and they took her 148 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:08.080 to her apartment. Well, as it turns out, she had 149 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:12.519 not seen her boyfriend for quite some time. He had 150 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:17.840 been drafted into the military and was in Kentucky, No no, No, 151 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.720 Fort Gordon, Georgia actually, and he did his boot camp 152 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.080 and then he went to aw O well, and he 153 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:32.840 worked his way back up to Ifslani and Arbor to 154 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:38.519 college towns separated by about nine miles. And so he 155 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:43.159 was at the University of Michigan, working under an assumed name, 156 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:46.799 and was going to get off at about midnight, I 157 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:52.639 think it was, And so she was really anxious to 158 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:55.879 see him. She hadn't seen him in a while, so 159 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:57.840 she was going to go out and take the bus. 160 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.159 She stands out on the corner with her roommate is 161 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.799 just keeping her company while she was out there in 162 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:09.559 the dark, and they watched the bus zoom by. It's 163 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:14.759 packed standing room, and so it didn't even make a 164 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:23.679 pretense to stop or anything. So she's you know, heartfalling 165 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:29.440 and anxious about seeing the boyfriend. So she sticks her 166 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:34.039 thumb out, which was not something that was you know, 167 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:37.960 rare in those days, especially between these two college towns, 168 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:41.000 because there was a lot of traffic, you know, all 169 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:44.320 day long and at night between the two campuses, and 170 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:52.600 so she felt reasonably safe. But I have to say 171 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.720 that there was a lapse of judgment on her part. 172 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.639 But she stuck her thumb out, and these three guys 173 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:06.440 come in a convertible and oh, where are you going. 174 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:11.000 I'm going to ann Arbor. Hey, we're going to ann Arbor. 175 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.879 Hop in the car, and that's what she did. Her 176 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.679 roommate tried to talk her out of it. 177 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:16.919 But. 178 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:25.840 You know, Joan's primary directive that night was to hook 179 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:31.639 up with her boyfriend. And then the story takes a 180 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:37.679 turn because rather than goes straight to ann Arbor, which 181 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.320 is the direction the car was pointed, they looped around 182 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:47.759 the campus a little bit and the driver had two 183 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:51.240 there were three people, so the other two guys, hey, 184 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:53.440 you know, I'll take her in ann Arbor. We'll see 185 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:58.679 you guys later, and dropped him off. Well, he took 186 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:07.080 off and three days later her body was found. She 187 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:12.320 never made it to ann Arbor. From about midnight to 188 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:16.159 one o'clock, the boyfriend and her roommate were on the 189 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.519 phone saying did she make it? No, she didn't make it. 190 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.679 Are you sure? Did she come back to the apartment, 191 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:25.320 And so the boyfriend gets in the car and goes 192 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:31.120 looking for her frantically all over and you know, can't 193 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.279 find her. So they call in the morning, they call 194 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:39.320 Joan Shall's parents, thinking, well, maybe she went home or 195 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.840 but that was not the case either. So three days 196 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:50.679 later they find Joan Shell in the countryside just north 197 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:59.159 of the Eastern Michigan University campus, and Joan is laying 198 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:03.480 along the fence throw with twenty five stab wounds. She's 199 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:11.879 been sexually molested. She had a red burlap bag, you know, 200 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:21.120 with overnight things, and that was missing. And the police, 201 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.440 some of them who had worked the first murder, said, 202 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:30.639 you know, there's some real strong similarities between the Pleasure 203 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:36.120 murder and the Shell murder, and that sent up the 204 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:42.360 first alert. But the FBI has a protocol and before 205 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:49.080 they officially declare a serial killer on the loose, they 206 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.519 need to have three murders. It's got to be pretty 207 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:58.879 much the same modus operandi the three murders. There's always 208 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:05.120 a cooling off here and uh, and the first two 209 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:11.360 murders met that criteria without having that third murder. Everything 210 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:18.960 else matched up, and later on I'm going to jump 211 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.960 in the story. It's because it's fragmented. It's on my mind. 212 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:30.600 The red burlap bag. Apparently that evening John Collins showed 213 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:34.320 up at the apartment with where one of the guys 214 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.679 who was in the car. His name is Arnie Davis. 215 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:41.840 You know, they both rented a room in the same 216 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:48.120 boarding house, and Collins came back later that evening with 217 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:55.639 the red burlap shoulder bag that had Jones overnight things. 218 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:02.519 But Collins also had her and he opened it up 219 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.839 and he took the money out of it, and he 220 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:12.440 exclaimed and Arnie later on in court that's way done 221 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:13.240 in the story. 222 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:13.839 Uh. 223 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:19.400 This is from his testimony. Colin said, the bitch lied 224 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.920 to me. She told me she was married, and the 225 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:28.960 license played at you know, Jones shall single and so on. 226 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:35.839 So that's a wrecked connection bang with that murder. But 227 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:42.119 it was still another year and the six more murders 228 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:48.039 before you know, this guy finally was caught. 229 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.039 Mm hmm. Let's use this as an opportunity to stop 230 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.799 for these messages. 231 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:55.279 Step into the. 232 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.960 World of power, loyalty, and luck. 233 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.599 I'm going to make an offer you can't refuse. 234 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.720 We're family, Canoli's and spins mean everything. 235 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.480 Now you want to get mixed up in the family business, 236 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.559 Introducing the Godfather at Champa Casino dot com. 237 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.559 Test your luck in the shadowy world at the Godfather Slodge. 238 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:19.000 Some day I will call upon you to do a 239 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.640 service for me. Play the Godfather now at Champacasino dot com. 240 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:23.640 Welcome to the. 241 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.519 Family vdW group. No purchase necessary. I believe we're premitted 242 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.079 by loss. He terms and conditions eighteen plus. 243 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.400 Now, we just talked about Joon Shell. But there wasn't 244 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.880 an employee. There was a at the school. There was 245 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.559 and he had a coworker and John Collins worked at 246 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.240 the at the school, and there was somebody that complained 247 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.759 a coworker that they were John Collins was harassing them 248 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:54.559 about details about the mutilation found when Joan Shell's body 249 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:58.079 was found. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about 250 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:02.480 this event and and what happens with John Collins and 251 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.000 any suspicion by police that he may be involved by 252 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:07.200 knowing that those details. 253 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:15.480 Yeah, well, John kept dropping details about the second murder, 254 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:19.319 which by that time in the campus newspapers. You know, 255 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.559 everybody knew that, you know, that Joan had been murdered. 256 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:32.519 And he kept irritating one of the female workers. He 257 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:39.319 worked in the alumni association office, and he just kept 258 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:44.960 dropping these disturbing remarks around this woman, a young woman, 259 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:53.759 and she told her supervisor, and you know, not much happened, 260 00:19:54.440 --> 00:20:03.480 and but the police were, you know, interested in anybody 261 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.960 because they had no leads. So he was interviewed and 262 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:15.960 John Norman Collins bluffed his way out of suspicion. Let's say, 263 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:25.240 as he's being interviewed, the police see a clean cut kid. Well, 264 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:30.799 he was a weightlifter, so he had a very nice 265 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:35.799 trim physique. He looked like an athlete because he was 266 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:42.519 an athlete, and real short hair. Well in nineteen sixty eight, 267 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.799 you know, everybody had started growing their hair out and 268 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:50.880 you know, wearing bell bottoms, and you know, there was 269 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:56.400 a real schism because here this guy looks like mister 270 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:05.480 Joe College and hiding behind that protective coloration. Uh. He 271 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:10.680 then casually says, hey, uh, do you guys know my uncle, 272 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:14.119 he's a state policeman. And he drops his uncle's name 273 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.960 and uh, they say, oh, yeah, we we know him. 274 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.440 A nice guy, lives over on corn Allen so on. 275 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:32.359 So they strike up a conversation and uh, he's let go, 276 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.599 and the police never follow up on that. It was 277 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:46.240 it was like almost like a professional courtesy once removed. 278 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.799 You know, Collins isn't the policeman, but within the Fraternal 279 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.039 Order of Police, I know, some communities have little stickers 280 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.920 that families put in the uh a windshield of their 281 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:01.279 car to you know, indicate that they're husbands or police 282 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:05.319 officers and so on stuff there they speed a little bit, okay, 283 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.559 slow it down, you know that sort of thing. And 284 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:18.519 in the small town of Ipsilani. Uh, basically it worked 285 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:25.359 and he wasn't under suspicion again until a number of bodies, 286 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:30.759 quite a few bodies started turning up and you know, 287 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.279 he had bluffed his way out of an arrest. 288 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.920 You include a woman named Jane Mixer as a victim, 289 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:46.079 and later we find out that that's not included in 290 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:52.000 the crimes of Collins. But in terms of the community, 291 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.680 they don't know what's going on. Except women are mixing 292 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.720 or are missing, and co eds are missing. So Jane 293 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:02.279 Mixer needed a ride to Missan and she didn't arrive, 294 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:05.319 and her dad calls the Michigan State Police and alerts 295 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:12.000 them of her disappearance. This is a bizarre murder. Tell 296 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:14.240 us a little bit of the details of who found 297 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.200 her and what was the state of her body at 298 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.400 that location. 299 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:24.279 Yeah, Well, Jane Mixer looking, as she said, looking for 300 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:29.759 a ride. Now, Jane as a University of Michigan student, 301 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.279 not an e MU student, but you know, a lot 302 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.160 of dating and back and forth from one campus to 303 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:43.880 a lot of cross pollination. And Jane, uh needed a ride. 304 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:50.799 So in the University of Michigan Union student union, and 305 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.599 it had a big courtboard with a map on it 306 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.519 of Michigan, and then another one with the map of 307 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.720 the United States. And uh, it was a ride board 308 00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:04.240 you'd put you know, I'm looking for a ride to 309 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.319 Miskegan and so on and so forth. Here's my number. 310 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:13.160 Today the ride board does not exist. Uh, And no 311 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:18.079 young women, uh, you know, wouldn't just publicly put their 312 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.119 phone numbers down there. Uh. And so she got a 313 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:29.319 call and uh from allegedly a person called David Johnson, UH, 314 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.400 and I'm just I want to sweep that off off 315 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.359 the list here. Uh turned out to be a fictitious name. 316 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.640 But there was a lot of police energy that went 317 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:45.680 into locating every David Johnson within a two or three 318 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.039 year range, uh in the whole state of Michigan, and UH, 319 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:57.480 every one of those clues went nowhere. So if she 320 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:02.960 was picked up, supposed to to be driven home and 321 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:12.240 she was found by the next morning, she was found 322 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:17.799 by a high school kid, ninth grader, I believe, walking 323 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:23.240 to school and walking to the bus stop rather to 324 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.799 get to school, and he sees a bag on the 325 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.039 road and it's a shopping bag, you know, with the 326 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.799 loop handles and so on. And he looks in there 327 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:41.039 and there are several wrapped presents and a couple of 328 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:47.200 notebooks with notes in him your students would have, and 329 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.759 I don't recall what else, but you know, maybe some 330 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:55.559 personal items. So he sees it. He's only a couple 331 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:58.400 of houses away from his house. He takes it to 332 00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:01.039 his mother and he's says, hey, I found this on 333 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.480 the street, and maybe you can see you know who 334 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:06.440 it belongs to, and we'll get it back to him. 335 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.839 And then he heads off so he doesn't miss his buss, 336 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.720 and about three blocks down the street, well, the mom 337 00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:18.279 looks at it. He takes the things out the presence 338 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:25.519 and notices that there's congealed blood that had soaked through 339 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:31.880 the bottom of the bag. And she freaked out. So 340 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:39.039 she jumped in her car, and you know, she knew 341 00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.640 that her son had found it right in front of 342 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.599 the entrance to the Denton Cemetery in Denton, Michigan. So 343 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:51.279 she goes to the Denton Cemetery and pulls in and 344 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.240 at one of the graves, just real close to where 345 00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.519 you pull into the cemetery, it is the body of 346 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:11.400 Jane Mixer beneath her her raincoat. And this lady went hysterical. 347 00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:18.200 She pulled out of the cemetery real fast, continued down 348 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:20.880 the road, her her sons still waiting on the corner 349 00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:27.480 for the bus. She just takes the car, goes through 350 00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:35.319 the stop sign and goes to her sister's house and 351 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:41.920 starts beating wildly on the door. And this is very dramatic, 352 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.640 but this is how the sun and the aunt told 353 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:51.359 me how I went and opened the door, and that 354 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.920 mom was just so upset and she couldn't really get 355 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:58.279 it out, you know, what it is that she had seen, 356 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:02.799 and you know, finally they calmed her down, called the police, 357 00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:09.160 and that was the finding of the third body. But 358 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:14.359 something was different about this one. You know, here we 359 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:21.000 now have three co eds killed, and you know, with 360 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.480 cooling off period, you know, all those things I said before, 361 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:28.960 But the police that were most familiar with the other 362 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:35.720 two murders said, this doesn't look like like the other two. 363 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:43.960 The FBI also categorizes serial murders serial killer murders as 364 00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:49.960 either organized or disorganized. The first two were disorganized, you know, 365 00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:57.160 murders of passion, murders of opportunity. But this one, she 366 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:05.000 was laid out nicely and and she as the investigators discovered. 367 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.559 They take the coat off of the body, and she's 368 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:14.039 fully clothed except her dresses pulled up around her waist 369 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:21.559 and her pantyhose are pulled down around her thighs. But 370 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.160 her pennies are on, and she has a sanitary napkin 371 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:32.480 in and it had not been that area, had not 372 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:36.440 been tampered with or anything. But that's how they found her. 373 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.640 And then the coat was put on top of all 374 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.720 of that, almost as if the murderer didn't want some 375 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:50.319 kid to find the body like that. That was one 376 00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:58.599 of the police suppositions. This murder also started the myth 377 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:07.279 that John Collins went wild whenever he was confronted with 378 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:14.920 the menstruating woman. Whether it was the odor or you know, 379 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:18.319 I don't want to get too graphic, but he just 380 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:25.279 apparently that was a trigger according to the police, and 381 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:32.279 I personally don't think that that it was a big 382 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:36.240 factor in the murders. There was another more compelling reason 383 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:42.519 that we'll get to. But this murder was organized, and 384 00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:46.200 it took thirty years before her family and they kept 385 00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:48.759 on it for thirty years with the police, and one 386 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:54.519 thing or another, and DNA had come to the the 387 00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:01.200 forensic toolkits and there was a drop of blood or no, 388 00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:05.480 I'm sorry, I think it was perspiration, but it could 389 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.240 have been a drop of blood. I don't remember. And 390 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.359 the DNA was checked out and it was a direct 391 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.839 hit for somebody who had just gotten into the system, 392 00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:22.480 because the whole system of the DNA profiling was you know, 393 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:29.039 being being born. But this got bang a direct hit 394 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.680 and turned out it was from a male nurse in 395 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:38.960 the area called Gary ear a lighterman and Gary was 396 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:42.200 convicted of this murder. But this is thirty years later, 397 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:47.680 and so bang. Now we have three unsolved murders and 398 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:54.559 the FBI of parameters I'll go into effect. And if 399 00:31:54.640 --> 00:32:00.960 Solani is beside itself and they know that there's a 400 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:09.000 murder somewhere in town and it really affected how people 401 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:14.799