Speaker 1: Welcome to another segment of nonprofits where we're going to discuss, well,
Speaker 1: maybe not our favorite state, but at least our favorite
Speaker 1: state to discuss eli, what have you got for us?
Speaker 2: So? Back in September of twenty twenty three, schools across
Speaker 2: Florida were required to send in their sex education materials
Speaker 2: to be reviewed by the state to ensure they aligned
Speaker 2: with new regulations that strictly enforce abstinence only education. The
Speaker 2: new policies state that visual representations of reproductive anatomy nor
Speaker 2: discussions of different types of sex should be present at
Speaker 2: any grade level, and that contraceptives are not part of
Speaker 2: any health or science standard and should only be mentioned
Speaker 2: as a health resource, banning demonstrations on how to use contraceptives.
Speaker 2: The language also specifies that children through high school should
Speaker 2: be taught that abstinence from sexual activity outside of marriage
Speaker 2: is the expected standard for all school age students. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know if this feeling is surprise or despair,
Speaker 2: but I definitely worry for the children growing up in Florida.
Speaker 2: This story is from Popular by Rebecca Crosby on September
Speaker 2: twenty fifth, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Well, that was quite a mouthful and quite a letdown.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you and I have had conversations about this
Speaker 1: topic before, because you and I, both in our viewpoint
Speaker 1: of saying educate children, have both been labeled groomers. Now,
Speaker 1: so what do you think about that? Where do you
Speaker 1: come from? How do you feel about that? What's your response?
Speaker 1: Do you like?
Speaker 2: So I had to look up at one point, I'm like,
Speaker 2: let me find the actual definition of grooming because maybe
Speaker 2: I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: How why are these.
Speaker 2: People like seeing a similarity between what I'm saying and grooming?
Speaker 2: And no, it's not the same. It's almost as much
Speaker 2: different as it could be from what I'm saying, which
Speaker 2: is give kids accurate information about the world so that
Speaker 2: they can be prepared. And yeah, you're going to you know,
Speaker 2: different things are going to be suitable for different age groups.
Speaker 2: But if you're not willing to teach things to your
Speaker 2: kids about sex or related topics, there are plenty of
Speaker 2: people that don't have their best interest in mind that
Speaker 2: are more than happy to do it for you. And
Speaker 2: by keeping them naive, you're not protecting them, You're keeping
Speaker 2: them vulnerable. And I think too, that this article is
Speaker 2: muddying the waters a little bit when or not the article,
Speaker 2: but the language of the bill is muddying the waters
Speaker 2: a little bit here when it says all school aged children,
Speaker 2: because that is, of course talking about very young children
Speaker 2: from five up to you know, ten, eleven, twelve, you know,
Speaker 2: and thirteen some may even consider young. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably the age where kids should start learning it because
Speaker 2: most humans are sexually mature by the time they're thirteen
Speaker 2: years old, and these kids are thinking about seen by
Speaker 2: the time they finish high school, fifty seven percent of
Speaker 2: people will have already had sex. And if they're not
Speaker 2: learning it from trusted and knowledgeable adults, they're going to
Speaker 2: be learning it from ignorant friends, or untrustworthy adults, or
Speaker 2: untrustworthy friends or ignorant adults. There's any combination of things
Speaker 2: that can go wrong. It is I think a parent's
Speaker 2: it's a parent's responsibility to accurately and be sure that
Speaker 2: they're accurately teaching their kids about sex and anything that
Speaker 2: they might want to know about it without shame and
Speaker 2: like that stigma, because it can only do more good
Speaker 2: than harm.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, one thing is, as you mentioned, someone's
Speaker 1: going to teach your kids, and that's going to be
Speaker 1: someone who is going to do the best they can,
Speaker 1: or someone who, as you said, is just ignored the fact,
Speaker 1: or even worse, someone who has ill intent. But I
Speaker 1: can guarantee you that if your kids don't know what
Speaker 1: they need to know, that is something that makes a
Speaker 1: person who has ill intent, and it makes their job easier,
Speaker 1: not more difficult. Now switching over to you for a moment,
Speaker 1: Jonathan Up, I know that this band included bands on
Speaker 1: contraception and discussion of LGBTQ issues, but one I found
Speaker 1: particularly galling, and not that the other two aren't, was
Speaker 1: banning discussion about consent. I mean, don't you think that
Speaker 1: that is a should be a required topic, not just
Speaker 1: for boys or just for girls, because you know, well
Speaker 1: sounds they want to limit it to just one or
Speaker 1: the other, but that everyone needs to understand what consent is. Well,
Speaker 1: what do you think that was about.
Speaker 3: Changing sex education to exclude abuse? Consent and violence? Is
Speaker 3: just allowing young children to be abused and victimize. Maybe
Speaker 3: that is what the conservatives want, a ready stable of
Speaker 3: children who won't complain about them raping them. It sure
Speaker 3: looks like it, but I'm not going to just accuse
Speaker 3: them of that. But I thinks they do protest too much,
Speaker 3: and so you know they're in having Knowing for a
Speaker 3: fact that several of our representatives in Congress are under
Speaker 3: investigation for that kind of nonsense, it just makes me
Speaker 3: a little bit more weary and weary and leary about it.
Speaker 3: But there's already an effect from this BS anyway. And
Speaker 3: in areas where there's comprehensive sex education not and where
Speaker 3: it's not taught, where comprehensive sex education is not taught, chlamydia, HIV, syphilis,
Speaker 3: gunner rhea are all on the rise. Teen pregnancy is
Speaker 3: on the rise. These are areas where abstinence only is taught.
Speaker 3: All the things they're trying to prevent are happening more
Speaker 3: because these kids do not understand what's going on, and
Speaker 3: so if you don't teach them about it, they're going
Speaker 3: to experiment themselves. And when they do that, all the
Speaker 3: things you're trying to prevent are going to go up.
Speaker 3: And they have areas that have come for and sex said,
Speaker 3: the average sexual experience was prolonged. In other words, it
Speaker 3: was later in their teen years than otherwise it's abstinence only,
Speaker 3: they tend to have sex earlier. And I think it's
Speaker 3: just that if you don't pay attention, and you know,
Speaker 3: kids aren't stupid, you treat, if you infantilize them, they're
Speaker 3: going to throw tantrums and do exactly what you told
Speaker 3: me not to, right, guess what you know that seems
Speaker 3: to be borne out by the stats. So if you
Speaker 3: want your kid to stay celibate until marriage and everything else,
Speaker 3: then you damn well better teach them an awful lot
Speaker 3: about sex education because that seems to be the only
Speaker 3: way to get them to hold off. So and but yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's really concerning that they're allowing their kids to
Speaker 3: be set up to be violently violated by any idiot
Speaker 3: who comes comes along, any criminal comes along, by not
Speaker 3: teaching about sex. That's there's no universe where that's okay.
Speaker 1: You know, I agree. One thing that I have to
Speaker 1: say is that I know there's this gold standard of
Speaker 1: you know, wait until you're married, until you have sex
Speaker 1: and don't have sex and until you find that right person.
Speaker 1: Well I have a different view on that because I
Speaker 1: think and and and I know this is not going
Speaker 1: to be a popular view with some people, but I
Speaker 1: think you need to try that shit out and see
Speaker 1: what you like before you make any decisions. So whether
Speaker 1: it comes down to not just the person that you
Speaker 1: plan on marrying, but that just seems like limiting yourself
Speaker 1: for it, especially considering that if you're going to be
Speaker 1: in a monogamous relationship with one person for a long
Speaker 1: period of time, you better at least make sure that
Speaker 1: it's the type of person you like, that they have
Speaker 1: the likes and dislikes you like. And the only way
Speaker 1: that you're going to know what you like is go
Speaker 1: out there and find out. So whatever you do, don't
Speaker 1: wait until you're married, if you get married at all.
Speaker 1: But that's just my viewpoint now, seriously though, Yeah, well
Speaker 1: you know, and then the funny part is is that
Speaker 1: I know that when when I said that in front
Speaker 1: of my mother in law a long time ago, I
Speaker 1: thought she was about to, you know, she'd have had pearls.
Speaker 1: It's against her religion to have jewelry. But if she'd
Speaker 1: have had pearls, she'd have probably ripped them off her
Speaker 1: own damn neck. But you know, you know, we're kind
Speaker 1: of talking about what we're discussing on both sides. Eli.
Speaker 1: You know, Florida leads a nation in HIV cases. We
Speaker 1: see what's happened with the Catholic Church preaching against even
Speaker 1: condom use or discussion of condoms, and places like Africa
Speaker 1: and what it's done to disease there, And what do
Speaker 1: you think that we're going to see here in Florida
Speaker 1: as we see this, And to me, it feels like
Speaker 1: it's a goal. They want ignorant people because they want
Speaker 1: them to be obedient citizens who get get pregnant young
Speaker 1: and have kids and get bogged down into the routine
Speaker 1: more than anything else.
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think you nailed it, honestly, and
Speaker 2: alongside with what John pointed, I had both of these
Speaker 2: things that you guys said in my notes. Among the
Speaker 2: ten states with the highest rate of births among adolescent
Speaker 2: people capable of getting pregnant, those states from one to
Speaker 2: ten or Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama, Texas,
Speaker 2: West Virginia, and New Mexico, and the first eight require
Speaker 2: abstinence only education. West Virginia New Mexico have some more progressive,
Speaker 2: you know, sex education programs. I don't know what's going
Speaker 2: on there, but the first eight of the top ten
Speaker 2: highest rates of adolescent births is the states that require
Speaker 2: absence only educations are just like you said, like both
Speaker 2: of you have said, kids that are getting taught not
Speaker 2: to have sex are having it sooner. Because here's the thing,
Speaker 2: Like you said, kids aren't stupid. They're going to school
Speaker 2: or they're going to church or here from their parents.
Speaker 2: Don't have sex, don't have sex, don't have sex. And
Speaker 2: then getting on Instagram, you know, on TikTok, you or wherever,
Speaker 2: and everybody is talking about sex. Everybody is having sex,
Speaker 2: and they're seeing this and they're like, Okay, why are
Speaker 2: like what's going on here? Why is everyone and why
Speaker 2: are the adults these losers telling us not to have sex.
Speaker 2: And everybody that's cool on TikTok and Instagram that I
Speaker 2: want to be just like is talking about sex. What's
Speaker 2: going on here? So they're gonna start doing it with
Speaker 2: no information and we've already established it. And I think
Speaker 2: what's going to happen is you're going to have just
Speaker 2: like has been said, you're gonna have more.
Speaker 1: Rates.
Speaker 2: Yeah, more STDs, more adolescent birth rates, probably gonna knock
Speaker 2: West Virginia or New Mexico out of ninth or tenthity
Speaker 2: place probably take both of those. Florida could I if
Speaker 2: anybody could, it would be Florida. And it's you know,
Speaker 2: and they're even the ability of the language in this
Speaker 2: new regulation, even talking about restricting, uh, the use of
Speaker 2: the word fluids, which, as a professor of public health
Speaker 2: named Lisa bar pointed out, that makes it extremely difficult
Speaker 2: to properly teach about things like sexual transmitted infections like HIV, which,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, already has one of the highest rates
Speaker 2: of Florida already has one of the highest rates of
Speaker 2: HIV infection in the country. So nothing is going to
Speaker 2: get better here and and I mean where it's it's
Speaker 2: this this loop, this circle of terrible effect after terrible effect.
Speaker 2: More kids are going to get victimized. More kids are
Speaker 2: going to make ignorant, uninformed choices and cause harm to
Speaker 2: themselves that way. And you know, who knows what it's
Speaker 2: going to take to like get anything that changed back
Speaker 2: for the better in Florida. I agree with you. It
Speaker 2: does seem like they want an ignorant population.
Speaker 3: Yeah, capulation too. Yeah, you have as many kids as
Speaker 3: they can so they get butts in the seats in
Speaker 3: their church and get the tithes, so you know, that
Speaker 3: way they keep their money too going.
Speaker 1: I agree, Jonathan, I think that they're looking for you
Speaker 1: a nice heteronormative, really relationship. Have a bunch of babies,
Speaker 1: have them young, and let's have them for God. And
Speaker 1: you know, so this is a hand in hand thing
Speaker 1: where you know, the Christians get themselves butts in their
Speaker 1: seat paying ties and the corporations get their compliant workforce.
Speaker 1: Because once again, as we've talked about many times here
Speaker 1: in Florida, anti it's not just anti education of sex education.
Speaker 1: The truth is that right now, I think we're experiencing
Speaker 1: just a case of anti education when it comes down
Speaker 1: to some states, Florida in particular. For this Eli talked
Speaker 1: about words that were taken out that weren't there, no
Speaker 1: longer to be able to be used, and another one
Speaker 1: that we it may have been mentioned, but I don't
Speaker 1: recall it was the word domestic violence. Jonathan, what do
Speaker 1: you think that's about. You know, we talked about first
Speaker 1: we're talking taking away consent, but now we're not even
Speaker 1: going to talk about domestic violence.
Speaker 3: You know, the domestic violence is often sexual in nature.
Speaker 3: There or we can't talk about that in front of
Speaker 3: the children, of course not. I mean, you know, why
Speaker 3: would you want to do that, Well, maybe to prevent
Speaker 3: them from being victims of domestic violence and breaking the
Speaker 3: cycle of domestic violence. Or is it that, since Christians
Speaker 3: believe that the man is supposed to be sacrosanct and
Speaker 3: superior in the household, that he has a right to
Speaker 3: beat his wife, you know, and he has a right
Speaker 3: to spank his children. It wouldn't surprise me. I haven't
Speaker 3: heard or seen that as an actual policy measure, but
Speaker 3: it seems to be they're kind of tacitly kind of
Speaker 3: sliding that in under the table here where it's going
Speaker 3: to be something that will well, you know, we're going
Speaker 3: to normalize injuring people in the home, you know, And
Speaker 3: that's kind of like that's a big red flag. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it's bad.
Speaker 1: That's exactly how I took it, because I mean, first
Speaker 1: we say, okay, let's not talk about consent, and now
Speaker 1: let's not talk about domestic violence. And yes, you mentioned
Speaker 1: spanking children. Let's be realistic, most of these people who
Speaker 1: we're talking about who are behind this kind of thing
Speaker 1: would cheer raw raw round beating your kids too. And
Speaker 1: of course they would say, oh, it's spanking, not beating,
Speaker 1: but if you if you hit a kid, it's beating.
Speaker 1: In my book, I don't make a distinction there. So, Eli,
Speaker 1: what do you think is Jonathan right? Or are we
Speaker 1: just heading to a point where we're just easing in
Speaker 1: another bad behavior. We've talked before about bad behaviors and
Speaker 1: words being normalized. Are we looking at just one more
Speaker 1: thing that it feels like we're just trying to slip
Speaker 1: something else in under the cracks, So we're looking at
Speaker 1: a normalization of this.
Speaker 2: You'd have to think that there's some sort of motivation
Speaker 2: for taking out education about consent or to mess about it,
Speaker 2: because I can't, like, as a cognitively capable adult, I
Speaker 2: can't imagine looking back on any moment in my life
Speaker 2: and being like, you know, I wish I knew less
Speaker 2: about what I was doing at that time. I wish
Speaker 2: I had less information to make a worse decision or
Speaker 2: less like that. And I don't think that thought ever
Speaker 2: should occur to any rational human. So for them to
Speaker 2: you think that they're preparing anybody for success by doing
Speaker 2: exactly that blows my mind. So, yeah, you have to
Speaker 2: think that there's some sort of it something to be
Speaker 2: gained from them by remote, like by by limiting access
Speaker 2: to this information, to this knowledge, because you like, like
Speaker 2: we've already covered, Like you're not protecting anybody by not
Speaker 2: teaching them about you know, what is and isn't okay.
Speaker 2: And this isn't just about sex or like relationships or
Speaker 2: domestic violence. This is about anything. You can't set somebody
Speaker 2: up for success by only teaching them the good things.
Speaker 2: They have to know how to prepare for the bad things. Otherwise, like,
Speaker 2: because you're not only going to have good things, You're
Speaker 2: gonna have bad things come up, and if you're not
Speaker 2: prepared to deal with them, it doesn't matter. How Like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you know about the good things,
Speaker 2: because you're never going to get there.
Speaker 1: Without a doubt. And I do think that we are
Speaker 1: seeing exactly these things coming together. And it's like you
Speaker 1: talked about earlier to eighteen children. And one of my reminders,
Speaker 1: and I mentioned it to you not long ago, was
Speaker 1: a conversation I had with my youngest and it was
Speaker 1: about P. Diddy and it was about the vials, I mean,
Speaker 1: the canisters of Loube thousand lou canvass of loubes they found,
Speaker 1: and it didn't take me very longer than that discussion
Speaker 1: to realize that she didn't understand the purpose of the
Speaker 1: loub and Okay, well it's time to have a discussion
Speaker 1: about that and explain that because like anything else, it's
Speaker 1: either information or it's misinformation, and that information is going
Speaker 1: to be to learn from someone who's going to give
Speaker 1: real information or someone who's not. But you know, when
Speaker 1: it comes down to things like loube or what was
Speaker 1: the word that they said, we couldn't need fluids, I
Speaker 1: can understand some giggling and some fourteen year olds being
Speaker 1: fourteen year olds in class about that. Okay, I get
Speaker 1: that there's a certain level of awkwardness to it, But
Speaker 1: when it comes down to issues like you know, consent,
Speaker 1: when it comes down to issues like domestic violence, I
Speaker 1: don't think that there's going to be awkward moments in
Speaker 1: classes with kids giggling over the fact that, you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about these issues. I think there are issues
Speaker 1: that would be taken very serious. And I found it
Speaker 1: really unfortunate that some places in Florida are just saying okay,
Speaker 1: because our teachers, rightfully so, are so concerned about teaching
Speaker 1: this to a class of children, because they're going to
Speaker 1: go home to parents and say things, and if I
Speaker 1: slip up, it could be my job that they're saying,
Speaker 1: you know what, we're not going to teach sex at
Speaker 1: at all, And that is so unfortunate for the children
Speaker 1: because they need that information. If nothing else, I would
Speaker 1: like them to know what consent is. Jonathan, what do
Speaker 1: you think you think that there's Is this something that's
Speaker 1: going to last or is this something that people.
Speaker 3: Flora is going back to being purple here. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of there's a lot of pushback on the magacrap
Speaker 3: and the slight majority of people don't like it. So
Speaker 3: it's going to be here in Florida. I think it's
Speaker 3: going to eventually go the way of all flesh. But
Speaker 3: you know, you never know. They can hang on by
Speaker 3: their fingernails like they have over the last twenty thirty
Speaker 3: years and just you know, and I don't mean just
Speaker 3: mag I mean arch conservatives have never gone away. They've
Speaker 3: been here since the beginning of the country and they've
Speaker 3: always been working to turn us back into a monarchy.
Speaker 3: So it's just a matter of being aware they're there
Speaker 3: and having the majority of people and strengthening the middle
Speaker 3: class and other people who tend to decide a lot
Speaker 3: of these elections and other things. But you know, it's
Speaker 3: just one of these things you cannot and you cannot
Speaker 3: not tell kids that when their grandfather is touching them inappropriately,
Speaker 3: they shouldn't say anything horseshit, you know. And you can't
Speaker 3: tell kids that, oh, gee, you know what did that
Speaker 3: what at that juck guy at school say to you?
Speaker 3: You know, well, he said he wanted to take me
Speaker 3: into the closet. You really want your kids to say, oh, okay, no,
Speaker 3: you want them to recognize what's going on and go
Speaker 3: run and tell somebody. Right, not telling him about it
Speaker 3: is the most dangerous thing you can do for your children.
Speaker 3: So these people obviously don't care about the kids. That's
Speaker 3: not what they care about.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: They care about the points. You know, they care about
Speaker 3: their talking points. That's it.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm not sure what they care about because it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be in anybody's self interest. And Eli,
Speaker 1: I wanted to give you an opportunity to wrap up
Speaker 1: a couple of things I know you and I talked
Speaker 1: about before. The groomer thing and being called at and
Speaker 1: so you know, to those who say this at all
Speaker 1: be done at home, not in schools, well, do you
Speaker 1: what do you have to say to that?
Speaker 2: That's actually that's exactly what I wanted to end on,
Speaker 2: because I think I mentioned that earlier. I think parents
Speaker 2: have a responsibility to do that, but to do it
Speaker 2: accurately to a very nuanced degree. Yeah, I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, sex should be taught at homes, but I
Speaker 2: think that gets mishandled more than more than it doesn't
Speaker 2: because not every you know, parent would have a conversation
Speaker 2: with their child that is the age that that your
Speaker 2: youngest is about what lube is, and especially in the
Speaker 2: in the context of like p Didy and what's going
Speaker 2: on with him. Right, So, I think parents are notoriously
Speaker 2: bad at talking to their kids about sex. My parents
Speaker 2: didn't teach me anything about sex. I learned it all
Speaker 2: on my own, and I just happened to, like eventually
Speaker 2: at this point, kind of have some ideas that are
Speaker 2: not horrible, right, And I think I think that I
Speaker 2: have the right ideas. I hope that I do, and
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to make sure that i'm that you
Speaker 2: know that I do. But I didn't learn it from
Speaker 2: my parents. My my the talk with my dad was like, hey,
Speaker 2: what do you know about sex? And I lied and
Speaker 2: I was like, and he goes, oh, sex is a
Speaker 2: gift from God for parents, and I was like okay,
Speaker 2: and he didn't describe anything about it. So like I
Speaker 2: had to learn these things on my own. Just like
Speaker 2: I said before, if if you don't educate yourself so
Speaker 2: that you can properly educate your twoildren, someone else is
Speaker 2: going to do it. And you don't know if that
Speaker 2: information is going to be true. You don't know if
Speaker 2: it's going to be safe. You don't know who if
Speaker 2: that person is going to be safe and that, and
Speaker 2: like I like the last time I invited the you
Speaker 2: know YouTube to call me a grouma, they didn't. They
Speaker 2: disappeared on me. They failed me, So I'm giving you
Speaker 2: another chance. I had a whole conversation about talking to
Speaker 2: kids about sex, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Ray, my wife has never gotten that
Speaker 1: speech from her mom. Her mom never even gave her
Speaker 1: the sex talk, never even made an attempt, So I
Speaker 1: guess it's kind of late now. But you know, you
Speaker 1: mentioned the p Diddy moment and At first, I was like,
Speaker 1: thanks P Diddy, you know, I appreciate this. But then
Speaker 1: when I thought of it seriously, seriously, I didn't think, though,
Speaker 1: thanks P Diddy, because life gives you things and opportunities
Speaker 1: to be aware of what your children do and don't
Speaker 1: know and what's important for them to know. So yeah,
Speaker 1: while there is the thanks P Diddy, there's also the
Speaker 1: thanks P Diddy. Now I know, no, but you know.
Speaker 1: On that note, I will say that it's been a
Speaker 1: good conversation, Jonathan. I like your perspective of it, being
Speaker 1: hopeful about Florida waking up to some of these literally
Speaker 1: nightmare situations regarding children,