WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Big Food and Beyond.

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<v Speaker 2>With Cliff and Bulbo. These guys are your favor It's

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<v Speaker 2>so like say subscribe and raid it.

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<v Speaker 1>Live, Stock and.

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<v Speaker 2>Righteous, go on yesterday and listening, watching always keep its watching.

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<v Speaker 1>And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Bobs, how you doing man?

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<v Speaker 3>That's pretty rough. I know, yeah, it's it's hard for

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<v Speaker 3>the last couple of days.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is not a good time right now. But

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<v Speaker 2>we've come to celebrate a life not more than our

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<v Speaker 2>loss necessarily. I mean, I know that's hard to do,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when the loss is as great as the one

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<v Speaker 2>we experienced this week. Of course, everybody knows everybody, doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff Meltrim passed away this past week, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>a terrible blow to the community. Yeah, it's it's a

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<v Speaker 2>horrible blow to the community and also personally as well.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean everyone in the show here. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>good friend of doctor Jeff Meltrum. He stayed at my

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<v Speaker 2>house a number of times, and he loved my dog,

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<v Speaker 2>you love my wife, and like it just that's a

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<v Speaker 2>good good friend. We're all very fortunate to have had

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff in our life in any way at all. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think that the focus here isn't it shouldn't really

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<v Speaker 2>be on what we've lost, but rather than what we've gained,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, rather what we've gained here, because the bigfoot

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<v Speaker 2>field would be very, very different if Jeff had never

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<v Speaker 2>existed at all, and so many of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>we just take for granted nowadays are because of Jef. Essentially,

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<v Speaker 2>we can look back and it's very easy to tell,

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<v Speaker 2>like what Jeff has given us as a community, at

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<v Speaker 2>least academically, shall I say, you know that what he's

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<v Speaker 2>given us personally, and you know, the smiles, the jokes,

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<v Speaker 2>the you know, the star Trek trivia, whatever else that

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<v Speaker 2>you know from Jeff is yours and subjective and personal.

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<v Speaker 2>But we have kind of a timeline marker, a calibration marker,

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<v Speaker 2>what we knew or thought about sasquatches before Jeff showed

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<v Speaker 2>up on the scene. And that is, of course, doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Grover Krantz's book Big Footprints, which is the first edition,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to specifically say the first edition, not

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<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot Sasquatch Evidence, which is pretty much the same book

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<v Speaker 2>with some addendums in it, you know, with some pendicies,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess editions because in nineteen ninety two, when doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Krantz published Big foot Prints, he was the guy. He

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<v Speaker 2>was the scientist who had studied this subject for years

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<v Speaker 2>and years and years, and he published pretty much what

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<v Speaker 2>he thought of the thought or knew at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>But when he did the second edition, and I'm afraid

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have off the top of my head the

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<v Speaker 2>date of the second edition versus the first, but one

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<v Speaker 2>of those appendices, one of those additions that he added

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<v Speaker 2>to his book was the arrival of doctor Meldrum on

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<v Speaker 2>the scene. You can look at what Krantz wrote and

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<v Speaker 2>then compare it to what doctor Meldrum wrote, and also

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<v Speaker 2>really compared to what we all know and take for

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<v Speaker 2>granted at this moment, in that kind of gauges how

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<v Speaker 2>much doctor Meldrum has added to the field. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. I mean, I might struggle with words a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit sometimes during this podcast because I don't see

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<v Speaker 2>how his contribution it might even be the sing his

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<v Speaker 2>participation in the subject might be the single most important

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<v Speaker 2>thing that's ever happened. I'd say so, Yeah, on par

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<v Speaker 2>with the PG film itself, or the nineteen fifty eight

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry Crew Footprints or anything else for that matter.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean even people that are in a big

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<v Speaker 3>Foot don't realize how much Jeff contributed. I mean, he's

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<v Speaker 3>a he was a brilliant guy. I mean he was

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<v Speaker 3>his expertise, like you know, primate locomotion and the adaptation

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<v Speaker 3>of biopedalism. I mean, I mean in his own field,

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<v Speaker 3>he was a top notch guy. And then compared to

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<v Speaker 3>the big Foot film, there's just no one else of

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<v Speaker 3>his stats. I mean, Bennanaga was great, and he was,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, a serious researcher and he made contributions, but

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<v Speaker 3>Jeff was like, I mean, he was just like a

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<v Speaker 3>like another level on a discovering things. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think if if you were to look at the

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<v Speaker 1>backgrounds of many of the people that were previously involved,

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<v Speaker 1>Let's say, hypothetically, if there was a great expert in

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<v Speaker 1>primate dentition, what would they have to evaluate as regards

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<v Speaker 1>to sasquatch. It's not like we have a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>things that sasquatches have bitten or chewed, right. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>within any discipline, you have many sub disciplines and these

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<v Speaker 1>sort of laser focused kind of specialists, and so generally

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<v Speaker 1>he was a physical or biological anthropologist and an anatomous

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<v Speaker 1>but his specialty was, you know, bipedal locomotion and the

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<v Speaker 1>evolution thereof, and specifically the anatomy of feet in this

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<v Speaker 1>suite of adaptations. And so the biggest body of existing

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<v Speaker 1>Sasquatch evidence consists of footprints. And so there really was

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<v Speaker 1>no one better suited to tackle this subject than he

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<v Speaker 1>was as a singular figure.

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<v Speaker 2>And to contrast that, you know, I'll go back to

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<v Speaker 2>Krantz for a moment. Krantz when he wrote his book

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<v Speaker 2>Big Footprints and later on Big Sasquatch Evidence, the same thing,

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<v Speaker 2>he noted that there was a considerable amount of flexibility

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<v Speaker 2>in the Sasquatch foot, but he didn't put a word

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<v Speaker 2>on it. He didn't slap that mid tarsal joint on there.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't explain it how that the foot flex is

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<v Speaker 2>behind the metatarsals. He didn't do any of that. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's not because he didn't he wasn't aware of the words,

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<v Speaker 2>or he didn't understand the concept or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really because Krantz is more of a bone guy

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<v Speaker 2>in general. He was osteologist or something like that. If

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<v Speaker 2>I remember correctly, that specialty in physical anthropology, So bones

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<v Speaker 2>in general were kind of his gig from what I understand,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've never met Krantz. Of course, he passed away

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<v Speaker 2>before I had a chance to connect with him. Unfortunately.

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff's gig was was anatomy and physiology and the anatomy

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<v Speaker 2>of the primate foot and the adaptations for bipedalism. So

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<v Speaker 2>it took Jeff to even recognize. It took someone with

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<v Speaker 2>the eyes to see, as I often say, what we're

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<v Speaker 2>looking at in sasquatch footprints. And of course the greatest

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<v Speaker 2>example of this is the famous photograph from the Patterson

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<v Speaker 2>Gimblin film site by Lyle Labberty. You know of that

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<v Speaker 2>very very famous print with the mid tarsal pressure ridge

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<v Speaker 2>right behind it. If you notice on that picture there's

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<v Speaker 2>a stick on the left hand side sticking into the ground,

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<v Speaker 2>and everybody kind of assumed, assumed for years, decades, literally decades,

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<v Speaker 2>that that stick was underneath that ridge, and that's why

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<v Speaker 2>that ridge was there, because the sasquatch stepped on the

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<v Speaker 2>stick and it didn't push down, and that ridge is

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<v Speaker 2>actually what made that pressure ridge what we now know

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<v Speaker 2>is a pressure ridge. You can just look at the

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<v Speaker 2>photograph and it doesn't line up exactly, but that's what

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<v Speaker 2>people thought. That was the best guess. Now, Krantz probably

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<v Speaker 2>could have figured that out, but it took someone with

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<v Speaker 2>a specialty in sasquad or an eight feet in general

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<v Speaker 2>to do so. And that's what Jeff did. I think

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<v Speaker 2>he published it somewhere around the year two thousand. I'd

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<v Speaker 2>have to double check here. I'll see if I can

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<v Speaker 2>pull that up, but he basically published it and said, hey, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what that is, and that also explains all these

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<v Speaker 2>other marks in the foot as well. And you can

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<v Speaker 2>see that same feature in so many of the other footprints,

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<v Speaker 2>footprint photographs and footprint casts. And it was in that

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<v Speaker 2>one thing alone, which I would say ninety percent of

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<v Speaker 2>big foot nerds or officionados or fans or researchers know about.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we went from nineteen sixty seven to about

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<v Speaker 2>the year two thousand before we knew what we were

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<v Speaker 2>looking at. And that one thing is because of doctor Meldrum,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and so many of the other givens of

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<v Speaker 2>what we think we know about suasquatches today also come

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<v Speaker 2>from him. But that's that's probably one of his major

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<v Speaker 2>contributions right there. And I want to point out major

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<v Speaker 2>contributions because there were so many minor ones.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he also everybody everyone, like when you were

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<v Speaker 3>like discussing with a skeptic or someone at your family

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<v Speaker 3>dinner or whatever, like at the bar, you're talking to

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<v Speaker 3>someone and they you'd always bring up Melgium. Everyone brings

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<v Speaker 3>up Melgium. Like, well, there's doctor Jeff Melguman in Outaho

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<v Speaker 3>State and he's an anthropologist, and he noted the mid

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<v Speaker 3>tarsal break and showed that how it looks like the

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<v Speaker 3>same as print from like one point eight million years ago,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. You you see that same kind of foot structure

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<v Speaker 3>and the god the Australiopithoscene. And uh, I mean like

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<v Speaker 3>everyone everyone used him, and he helped us may look

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<v Speaker 3>less crazy to other people, you know, because this academic

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<v Speaker 3>qualified guy was saying these things and showing and giving

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<v Speaker 3>examples and showing how how it works. It was he

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<v Speaker 3>helped everybody. He helped everybody out. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's that is so very true because for him

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<v Speaker 1>to articulate that well and so many different iterations, and

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<v Speaker 1>to show the temporal context and the fact that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when this first emerge, which he even observed in the

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<v Speaker 1>original crew cast, you know, which he's talked about at

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<v Speaker 1>linked in a number of interviews that in that famous

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<v Speaker 1>newspaper photograph, you know, it's the surface of the track

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<v Speaker 1>is or the cast is parallel to the lens, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they use these big bright flashes to illuminate

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<v Speaker 1>the scene, and so it looks like a pretty flat

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<v Speaker 1>sort of two D object. But then he was able

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<v Speaker 1>to examine the actual cast and there's the mid tarsal

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<v Speaker 1>pressure ridge right there, going back to fifty eight. But

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<v Speaker 1>so for him to show that this feature is present

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<v Speaker 1>in these tracks and that it would only be later

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<v Speaker 1>that Lucy would be discovered Australlio Pithecus a Forendus and

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<v Speaker 1>then the lay Totally tracks, you know, the Australopithosen tracks

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<v Speaker 1>that you're referring to many years after the Patterson film.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Lucy was officially discovered at least presented to

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<v Speaker 1>the world in either seventy three or seventy four, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the laya Totally tracks shortly thereafter, if I'm not mistaken,

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<v Speaker 1>but around that same timeframe. And so for him to

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<v Speaker 1>put into context, like how is it that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if these were hoaxed that people could include a feature

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<v Speaker 1>based on fossils that hadn't been unearthed yet to understand

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<v Speaker 1>that an animal like this would have this physical adaptation

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<v Speaker 1>to that environment. That's a crucial component of the evolution

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<v Speaker 1>of bipedalism. And for him to teach us all about

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<v Speaker 1>that through numerous podcasts and documentaries to where just like

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<v Speaker 1>Bobo said, someone could be sitting at a campfire or

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<v Speaker 1>a bar and articulate that and show that, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>this is pretty compelling evidence. And I know Meldren would

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<v Speaker 1>often say like, if there is a smoking gun thus far,

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<v Speaker 1>it's that, And he taught us all that.

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<v Speaker 2>And the smoking gun that he mentioned to me one

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<v Speaker 2>time was when he went to China, of course, for

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was only a monster quest, and he

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<v Speaker 2>spoke to the ranger who had observed a Yeheren, the

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<v Speaker 2>Chinese version of a sasquatch at some distance and he

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<v Speaker 2>had really nice observation of the thing. And then after

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<v Speaker 2>the animal left, he went down and cast footprints that

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<v Speaker 2>were on the side of the creek or whatever it

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<v Speaker 2>was crouching next to. And when doctor Meldrum met him

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<v Speaker 2>for the first time through a translator, because the gentleman

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<v Speaker 2>didn't speak any English. He had he showed doctor Meldrum

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<v Speaker 2>the cast that he had made in China of the

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<v Speaker 2>Ya wren, and that that mid tarsal pressure ridge was

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<v Speaker 2>right there. It was right there, even to the point

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<v Speaker 2>where there was a there's this like this heart shape,

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<v Speaker 2>like this double bump sort of feature and in between

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<v Speaker 2>two of the bones that are make up that jumble

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<v Speaker 2>of bones right underneath the ankle. And uh, that same

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<v Speaker 2>feature was in the Yareen cast. And then like Jeff

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<v Speaker 2>got really excited, of course, and then he pulled out

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<v Speaker 2>the Patterson Gimlin cast, the one that I mentioned earlier

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<v Speaker 2>that Lyle Laberty had photographed, and they compared the two

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<v Speaker 2>and it was just spot on, spot on, including that

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<v Speaker 2>even that little double bump heart shape feature in the print.

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<v Speaker 2>You can see that same feature in the Patterson Gimlin

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<v Speaker 2>cast as well. And again that's that's a function of

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<v Speaker 2>two of the couple of bones. I'd have to go

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<v Speaker 2>back and double check, because unlike Jeff, I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>all the bones in the ankle area. Unfortunately, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>have to up my game though, because Jeff is now gone,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't rely on him anymore. And you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>also of interest about these two castle one from China

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<v Speaker 2>and the one I think was from the nineties and

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<v Speaker 2>the one from northern California, is that that feature of

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<v Speaker 2>the footprint is made by the push off and downwards

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<v Speaker 2>and backwards motion where the metatarsals end, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>back end of the metatarsals, so the bones looked up

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<v Speaker 2>and that thing pushes down and back and raises that

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<v Speaker 2>mount of dirt there. It was at the same place

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<v Speaker 2>proportionally in the foot, which is of great significance because

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<v Speaker 2>the bones in a Sasquatch foot are not proportionally similar

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<v Speaker 2>to humans. You know that they are different. The metatarsals

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<v Speaker 2>have been shortened, the ankle segment or the heel segment

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<v Speaker 2>have been lengthened. The ankles move forward on the foot,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can tell that by certain markers in the foot.

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<v Speaker 2>So the fact that the Sasquatch footprint from the sixty

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<v Speaker 2>seven matched this other foot from China in the ninety

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<v Speaker 2>nineties or whatever it was, is really stunning. Is very

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<v Speaker 2>very stunning. Where you have the same flexible foot feature

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<v Speaker 2>showing the same anatomical signatures in the same place proportionally

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<v Speaker 2>in the foot like that is a smoking gun, and

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<v Speaker 2>that cannot be I mean, I don't know that they

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say it can't be ignored, but clearly

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<v Speaker 2>most scientists are kind of ignoring that. But that is

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<v Speaker 2>an astounding, astounding congruence between two very diverse pieces of

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00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.840
<v Speaker 2>evidence from different times and places and literally continents. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know what's so fascinating about this is is and

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<v Speaker 2>one of the final things that I remember doctor Meldrum

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<v Speaker 2>telling me about in this particular story when he visited Chanl,

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<v Speaker 2>China and met this gentleman, is through the translator, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>after you know, the excitement of comparing the two footprint

255
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<v Speaker 2>casts was over and they saw the congruency and they

256
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<v Speaker 2>really felt they like, oh, there's something this is so interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Through the translator, the ranger in China asked doctor Meldrim, so,

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<v Speaker 2>do you have anything like the wild man in America?

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<v Speaker 2>He had never heard of bigfoot or sasquatch never, but

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00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.200
<v Speaker 2>yet he had a footprint that if you would have

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<v Speaker 2>just picked it up and shown it to anybody with

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<v Speaker 2>the eyes to see, you know, doctor Meldrim, or even

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00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.320
<v Speaker 2>me or somebody, they go, oh, yeah, that's a sasquatch.

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<v Speaker 2>Footprint and here's why. That is a huge congruence. And

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<v Speaker 2>if there ever is a smoking gun, that's it. Stay

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<v Speaker 2>tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo

267
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:44.320
<v Speaker 2>will be right back after these messages. But were you

268
00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:50.200
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269
00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:55.200
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270
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272
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273
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.039
<v Speaker 2>fuller head of hair like Bobo in the old days

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<v Speaker 2>by fall.

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<v Speaker 3>That'd be nice having a fresh fall crop to harvest.

276
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277
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281
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282
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<v Speaker 2>You can get started from the comfort of your own home, cave,

284
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285
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287
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290
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291
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00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:18.360
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00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.039
<v Speaker 1>Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and

299
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:26.799
<v Speaker 1>oral monoxidil and finasteride. Prescription required see website for full details,

300
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:31.159
<v Speaker 1>restrictions and important safety information. And you know what else

301
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.919
<v Speaker 1>that brought to mind was that another I say early,

302
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:35.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean Meldrim had already been involved for a number

303
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>of years by this point, but early for me is

304
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.399
<v Speaker 1>that kind of mid two thousands point where Jeff had

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00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>started to do the three D scans of the track

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00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.759
<v Speaker 1>collection that he had amassed thus far, and that there

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00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.480
<v Speaker 1>was that interactive thing on ISU's website where you could

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<v Speaker 1>move the three D scans in sort of like digital space,

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<v Speaker 1>and we will you know, we'll talk about this later,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm going to put together a repository of links

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00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.759
<v Speaker 1>for listeners to check out. But one of the slides

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00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.840
<v Speaker 1>that he used in presentations often as the consequence of

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<v Speaker 1>those scans, was showing you know, all those Tipmus casts

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<v Speaker 1>that we've seen photographs of you. I mean, you guys

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00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>have been lucky enough to see the actual cast, but

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00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.680
<v Speaker 1>for the rest of us, you know, reading books or

317
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.799
<v Speaker 1>watching documentaries, we only see those two D photos. But

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00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:20.039
<v Speaker 1>for him to take those ten consecutive casts that Tipmas

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<v Speaker 1>took at the Patterson site, lay them essentially on their

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<v Speaker 1>sides in digital space, to see the midfoot flexibility expressed

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<v Speaker 1>to varying degrees in every single footfall, you know, with

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00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:34.759
<v Speaker 1>these degrees of difference, some more exaggerated than others. But that,

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00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.200
<v Speaker 1>to me is such a remarkable thing to show people,

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00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:39.799
<v Speaker 1>because you know, when I first saw him do it

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00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.640
<v Speaker 1>in presentations, it was powerful. And then he released that

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<v Speaker 1>slide and various slides with those scans and other papers,

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00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.599
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, I've shown those two people, because

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00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.119
<v Speaker 1>most folks just see the two D photographs and they

329
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.519
<v Speaker 1>think about that sort of two D look that the

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<v Speaker 1>two tracks for example, that Roger and Bob cast the

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00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:59.480
<v Speaker 1>most perfect ones that they do look kind of flat,

332
00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, but then to show no, actually, this midfoot

333
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<v Speaker 1>flexibility is present in every single one of those tracks

334
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<v Speaker 1>and two varying degrees which a carve stomper cannot accomplish.

335
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.079
<v Speaker 1>And so that whole project of his and what came

336
00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:14.599
<v Speaker 1>out of it, I think was a major contribution too.

337
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.440
<v Speaker 1>And that's still early days for Jeff.

338
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<v Speaker 2>And his intent, of course was to be able to

339
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.400
<v Speaker 2>share footprint casts with scientists and other qualified individuals around

340
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the world. And because these scanning the apps, we have

341
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:27.799
<v Speaker 2>them on our phone now. But you know, this is

342
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.759
<v Speaker 2>a long time ago. This is ten to fifteen years ago,

343
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.319
<v Speaker 2>or more twenty years ago. It was a different world

344
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.079
<v Speaker 2>back then, and I had the privilege of watching a

345
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<v Speaker 2>number of footprint casts be scanned at ISU one time

346
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<v Speaker 2>when I went out to visit doctor Meldrum. It took

347
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.319
<v Speaker 2>a number of footprints that I had cast and brought

348
00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:48.279
<v Speaker 2>them down to the lab and it was a long,

349
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.680
<v Speaker 2>grueling process. I mean, it probably took fifteen minutes for

350
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.440
<v Speaker 2>each one cast, I'm guessing, And of course it's much

351
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.519
<v Speaker 2>higher resolution than the stuff we have on our phones.

352
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:01.440
<v Speaker 2>It still is good technology, but it's gone so much

353
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.079
<v Speaker 2>further at this moment. So and then you know, nowadays

354
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.119
<v Speaker 2>on your phone you can tap two locations on a

355
00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.000
<v Speaker 2>cast or a footprint or of whatever it is, or

356
00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.799
<v Speaker 2>anything of the skin of a room, and it'll tell

357
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:14.440
<v Speaker 2>you the distance. And that was his intent he wanted.

358
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<v Speaker 2>He was telling me one time he wanted to do

359
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<v Speaker 2>this thing where you can take two footprints of seemingly

360
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.720
<v Speaker 2>the same individual and then lay them over one another,

361
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and if the opposite footprints just flip it, it doesn't matter,

362
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.160
<v Speaker 2>because you can do that digitally so well. And if

363
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.000
<v Speaker 2>you color one one color and color the other casts

364
00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.000
<v Speaker 2>another color digitally, like yellow and green, where the overlap

365
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.359
<v Speaker 2>should be blue, right, and where they're different, you should

366
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.839
<v Speaker 2>see the yellow and green, and that would show differentiation

367
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.920
<v Speaker 2>in toe positions, depths, flexion, and a number of other

368
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.599
<v Speaker 2>anatomical features that he was great, greatly interested in. And

369
00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:49.839
<v Speaker 2>those files are out there. Those files are out there,

370
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.279
<v Speaker 2>and he uses them every once in a while in

371
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.279
<v Speaker 2>his publications and saying there's fascinating things. But to get

372
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:57.640
<v Speaker 2>back to the Patterson Gimlin thing where you mentioned Bob

373
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<v Speaker 2>Titmas's ten casts in a row regardless of quality, one

374
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.359
<v Speaker 2>of the other things that stood out, which makes perfect sense.

375
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.119
<v Speaker 2>And again, but it took someone like Jeff to point

376
00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:11.599
<v Speaker 2>it out. I think, you know, because sometimes you don't

377
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.000
<v Speaker 2>see the obvious until somebody points it out. And I've

378
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>had pleasure of pointing things out to Jeff too. We

379
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>can tell that's right in a while too. But when

380
00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.640
<v Speaker 2>you look at all ten of those prince in a row,

381
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:25.559
<v Speaker 2>especially from the top down, like that perpendicular perspective before

382
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>he turns it, you know, forty five degrees or ninety

383
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.039
<v Speaker 2>degrees to the angle of the camera, the prince are

384
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.480
<v Speaker 2>many of them are are different sizes, you know, some

385
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.480
<v Speaker 2>are two or three inches longer than the other ones,

386
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Which goes back to this idea that I'm always harping

387
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.920
<v Speaker 2>on that footprints are not the shape of the foot,

388
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:44.519
<v Speaker 2>They're the shape of the damage done to the ground

389
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.200
<v Speaker 2>by the foot, right. I say that all the time

390
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:49.720
<v Speaker 2>most presentations. That comes out of my mouth several times.

391
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:52.440
<v Speaker 2>But when you look at the prince flat, you know,

392
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:54.759
<v Speaker 2>laying flat on a table, so to speak. There's two

393
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.839
<v Speaker 2>three four inches in difference between those many times. But

394
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.000
<v Speaker 2>if you look at where the mid tarsal pressure ridge is,

395
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.920
<v Speaker 2>or the evidence of the inflection in the foot at

396
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.720
<v Speaker 2>least to the toes, those do not vary very much.

397
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Those don't don't vary probably more than a half an

398
00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:15.000
<v Speaker 2>inch or something like that, which which is the kind

399
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.240
<v Speaker 2>of variance you would expect. And the reason is when

400
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.880
<v Speaker 2>a sasquatch walks, and and everything I'm saying, everything I'm saying,

401
00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:25.319
<v Speaker 2>is because Jeff taught us, by the way, But when

402
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>a sasquatch walks, the foot flexes in the in the

403
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.920
<v Speaker 2>mid part of the foot right underneath the ankle, while

404
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:33.880
<v Speaker 2>that big jumble of bones are right behind the mid

405
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.319
<v Speaker 2>of tarsals. And then the push off of the foot therefore,

406
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>the force with all that weight behind it as the

407
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.680
<v Speaker 2>animal walks to the next step is on the entirety

408
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:47.279
<v Speaker 2>of the front half of the foot. And to take

409
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.039
<v Speaker 2>it even one step further. And I talked to Jeff

410
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:49.440
<v Speaker 2>about this.

411
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:49.960
<v Speaker 1>No.

412
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:53.759
<v Speaker 2>No longer ago than June, doctor Meldrim and I had

413
00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:58.200
<v Speaker 2>shared an airbnb for Charlie Raymond's conference back in June,

414
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:00.559
<v Speaker 2>and we didn't have a ride anywhere. So we woke

415
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.440
<v Speaker 2>up in the morning, had breakfast together, and had a

416
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.039
<v Speaker 2>seven hour, six and a half seven hour conversation because

417
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.519
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing else to do. And so I was talking

418
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:09.160
<v Speaker 2>to him about the things I've seen in the field

419
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:10.960
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, and he pretty much agreed with me on this.

420
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Is that So the push off on the front half

421
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:18.039
<v Speaker 2>of the foot like that which pushes down into the ground,

422
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:20.079
<v Speaker 2>because that's where the greatest forces and it's the part

423
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:23.119
<v Speaker 2>of the gait that has the greatest amount of force,

424
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:26.440
<v Speaker 2>that's the deepest part, And so that wouldn't be expected

425
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.279
<v Speaker 2>to have a great degree of variance in it, whereas

426
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:31.640
<v Speaker 2>the heel strike and stuff. Push makes the prince and

427
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:35.240
<v Speaker 2>the patterson gimlin thing longer, you know, that expects. But

428
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:40.799
<v Speaker 2>the toes, the toes on a sasquatch aren't used to

429
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:45.039
<v Speaker 2>the same degree as in human beings as far as

430
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.400
<v Speaker 2>the force upon push off. They seem to be more

431
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.680
<v Speaker 2>of like a stabilization thing. Yeah, there's a little bit

432
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.920
<v Speaker 2>of force on him that toes do impress, you know,

433
00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:58.319
<v Speaker 2>but many, many, like a significant percentage of the sasquatch

434
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.519
<v Speaker 2>footprints that I have personally observed the ground. The toes

435
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.480
<v Speaker 2>sometimes barely register. You know that the toes are there

436
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.519
<v Speaker 2>for stabilization and grasping and that sort of thing, but

437
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:09.920
<v Speaker 2>the force is not on the toes, which makes sense

438
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 2>because the toe. And this is another thing I remember, Jeff,

439
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what TV show this is in, but

440
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:16.519
<v Speaker 2>this is before I even met the guy. I think

441
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.319
<v Speaker 2>I remember him saying that the toes of a sasquatch

442
00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:23.359
<v Speaker 2>are probably about as long as your fingers are, and

443
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.799
<v Speaker 2>therefore can be expected to have about the same level

444
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.200
<v Speaker 2>of prehensibility, you know. And you know, they're not grabbing

445
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.759
<v Speaker 2>pens and writing or something with them, or they're not

446
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.079
<v Speaker 2>changing the channel on those old fashioned TVs, you know,

447
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:35.799
<v Speaker 2>with their toes like I did when I was a

448
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.200
<v Speaker 2>kid or whatever. But but they're used for stabilization and

449
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.440
<v Speaker 2>then kind of grasping the substrate to some degree. And

450
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.640
<v Speaker 2>these are all things that doctor Meldrum showed us.

451
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:49.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh, he was incredibly generous with those things. You know.

452
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:51.519
<v Speaker 1>As you were describing all that, I was thinking about

453
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:54.200
<v Speaker 1>a number of other things. You know, I don't really

454
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.079
<v Speaker 1>want to make comparisons to people that passed. I just don't.

455
00:23:57.160 --> 00:23:58.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it would be fair to the people

456
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.440
<v Speaker 1>that passed, But obviously there's a history of people sort

457
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.079
<v Speaker 1>of hoarding evidence or what they find. And it's pretty

458
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:09.359
<v Speaker 1>remarkable that Jeff wanted so many eyes on those casts

459
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.240
<v Speaker 1>and then realizing the difficulty it would be to fly

460
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.839
<v Speaker 1>people to Idaho, or the difficulty of transporting that cast

461
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.240
<v Speaker 1>collection around, that he endeavored to have them represented in

462
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.039
<v Speaker 1>digital space so that scientists from around the world could

463
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:23.839
<v Speaker 1>lay their eyes on him and interact with him. I mean,

464
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.240
<v Speaker 1>that's that's a pretty generous thing that doesn't happen very

465
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.440
<v Speaker 1>often in Sasquatch, where he let alone all the willingness

466
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.039
<v Speaker 1>to you know, it's sort of like the consummate professor

467
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.480
<v Speaker 1>teacher sharing the gift of knowledge. Because yeah, so, like

468
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.799
<v Speaker 1>Boba mentioned, like you're mentioning, so many of these things

469
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.839
<v Speaker 1>we've learned came from his willingness to talk on camera

470
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:46.319
<v Speaker 1>to seemingly like anyone who would show an interest because

471
00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:48.440
<v Speaker 1>I used to listen to him on you know, a

472
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of blog talk radio shows, you know, early internet radio,

473
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.440
<v Speaker 1>pre podcast that sort of thing, and he really was

474
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.799
<v Speaker 1>extremely generous with this knowledge and those discoveries and his

475
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.400
<v Speaker 1>willingness to share is pretty unique in the history of

476
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Sasquatrey not to dine great people of the past, but

477
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.000
<v Speaker 1>not everyone was as generous.

478
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.559
<v Speaker 3>Oh, he was unreal generousal this time. I mean I

479
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:11.839
<v Speaker 3>used to feel bad for him. You know, they're like, God,

480
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:14.960
<v Speaker 3>you gotta you know, you go to these conferences or whatnot,

481
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.839
<v Speaker 3>and you know, you got to deal with these people

482
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:19.680
<v Speaker 3>that have like these crazy ideas or like just no

483
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.359
<v Speaker 3>clue what they're talking about. And he'd listened to him

484
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 3>and you know, like try to kind of gently correct

485
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:28.000
<v Speaker 3>him and show him like what the facts on certain

486
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.240
<v Speaker 3>things were, and he just his patience was unreal. I mean,

487
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:32.480
<v Speaker 3>he was such a gentleman.

488
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, imagine how many times have you guys

489
00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:39.640
<v Speaker 1>seen him explain to someone the mechanics, you know, the

490
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:44.359
<v Speaker 1>function of midfoot flexibility, because so many people see those

491
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>fixed casts and they think that that's the way the

492
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.920
<v Speaker 1>foot is shaped, and they'll think that that's a feature

493
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:52.519
<v Speaker 1>of the foot itself, rather than like, no, that's a

494
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.079
<v Speaker 1>record of how the foot interacted with the substrate. And

495
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.079
<v Speaker 1>I've seen him teach that lesson so many times to people,

496
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:01.319
<v Speaker 1>which requires a lot of general It would be a

497
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.240
<v Speaker 1>lot easier to say, I just go read my book

498
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:05.200
<v Speaker 1>and leave me alone, you know. But he was very

499
00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:06.839
<v Speaker 1>generous to teach.

500
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:10.839
<v Speaker 2>And nearly every every time I observed him sharing that

501
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.640
<v Speaker 2>knowledge with somebody at a conference or whatever. You know,

502
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.519
<v Speaker 2>you watch him for two or like a minute and

503
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.039
<v Speaker 2>a half or something like that, and he starts getting

504
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.160
<v Speaker 2>excited about it. He starts getting like his body motion

505
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:26.240
<v Speaker 2>gets more animated, his voice starts going, and he starts smiling,

506
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:29.920
<v Speaker 2>like he gets really excited about that kind of I mean,

507
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.960
<v Speaker 2>he was a he was a nerd man. He loved

508
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:38.119
<v Speaker 2>what he did, and he loved the teaching aspect, and yeah, yeah,

509
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.400
<v Speaker 2>and it was it was always a treasured moment to

510
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.960
<v Speaker 2>see him doing what he loved, which is teaching about

511
00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:48.559
<v Speaker 2>something that he got really got excited about, you know.

512
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.960
<v Speaker 3>And he was hilarious.

513
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.200
<v Speaker 1>I hope those track scans become you know, there used

514
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.960
<v Speaker 1>to be a portal on the ISU website through like

515
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.119
<v Speaker 1>his portion of the I s U website, there was

516
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:01.960
<v Speaker 1>a portal the Virtual Footprint Archive, and so that data

517
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:04.279
<v Speaker 1>must exist somewhere. Do you guys know if he had

518
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.640
<v Speaker 1>the same intentions with you remember the three D scan

519
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 1>that was done of the Scuokum cast that Jeff was

520
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.200
<v Speaker 1>involved with.

521
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't want with that was that's pretty ancient technology, though,

522
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.279
<v Speaker 2>it'd be interesting to dig that up or see if

523
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:16.279
<v Speaker 2>he has that, or if Rick Nole has that, or

524
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.559
<v Speaker 2>who has that. Who knows what happened to that.

525
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm just assuming like he had the same intention is

526
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.680
<v Speaker 1>that it's going to be really hard to get you know,

527
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:26.359
<v Speaker 1>the cast to places. You know, John Green had sort

528
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:28.839
<v Speaker 1>of proposed that that they should travel take the cast

529
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.039
<v Speaker 1>on tour to various universities to have people evaluate it.

530
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.640
<v Speaker 1>But you know, maybe that's where that seed was planted,

531
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:36.920
<v Speaker 1>with Jeff saying, well, if we create a digital version

532
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:38.880
<v Speaker 1>of this in three D space, we can share with

533
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 1>people that way. But he really did a lot to

534
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.240
<v Speaker 1>try to bring this subject to his peers and colleagues

535
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.400
<v Speaker 1>and just to the world, just in terms of you know,

536
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.400
<v Speaker 1>that project being one of many examples of trying to

537
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:55.519
<v Speaker 1>share that in a really literal and figuratively a high

538
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:59.160
<v Speaker 1>resolution manner, you know, not just some paper with a

539
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:02.400
<v Speaker 1>black and white, you know, two D picture in it,

540
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 1>but really trying to bring this information to people. And

541
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 1>those are huge contributions.

542
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and talk about the generosity of his time he

543
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.720
<v Speaker 2>was lamenting to me. This is back in June again

544
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.480
<v Speaker 2>when we had that wonderful conversation for six hours or so.

545
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:21.240
<v Speaker 2>He's lamenting to me that he's he felt bad about

546
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.799
<v Speaker 2>starting to have to say no to some podcast requests

547
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.160
<v Speaker 2>because he says, well, you know, like I don't have

548
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time, and these people sometimes they only

549
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.720
<v Speaker 2>have twenty five or thirty people listening, but I'm going

550
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.359
<v Speaker 2>to take an hour and I just don't have that

551
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:37.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of time, and I feel terrible. He was lamenting

552
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.599
<v Speaker 2>about not being able to help the little guy.

553
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I was always telling him, don't worry about it.

554
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.960
<v Speaker 3>I was always something like, dude, like you're just you're

555
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.160
<v Speaker 3>burning your time, Like your time is too vital. I

556
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:49.359
<v Speaker 3>mean a lot of people don't know he had six boys,

557
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:53.200
<v Speaker 3>six sons. I mean he's busy, dude, a full time

558
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.039
<v Speaker 3>job and squatching. I mean he was slammed for time.

559
00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he didn't have a lot of time, and he

560
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.279
<v Speaker 2>just kept getting busy and busier and busier. He was

561
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:04.920
<v Speaker 2>doing all these appearances and whatnot, trying to share his knowledge,

562
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to you know, bring people back down the earth

563
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:12.039
<v Speaker 2>about sasquatches. And then yeah, and when I say that

564
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:13.559
<v Speaker 2>it'd like to kind of just like dispel a lot

565
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 2>of these paranormal ideas, you know, because he knew that

566
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:19.960
<v Speaker 2>that didn't really serve the subject, unfortunately, and then it

567
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.640
<v Speaker 2>drove his colleagues away and made him look bad. And

568
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.200
<v Speaker 2>he didn't do it because he looked bad. He always

569
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:29.039
<v Speaker 2>spoke about the subject in a scientific, biological manner because

570
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.640
<v Speaker 2>he thought that the subject deserved that, and to go

571
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.680
<v Speaker 2>to fanciful lengths to explain things through paranormal means does

572
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 2>no service to the animals nor the subject.

573
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:45.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he did more to legitimize the pursuit, certainly in

574
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 1>the last twenty five years, but to your earlier points,

575
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe more than any other single individuals, or at least

576
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.400
<v Speaker 1>any single individual scientist or academic that's ever been involved

577
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 1>in this subject. From designating a name, you know, an

578
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:02.880
<v Speaker 1>IGNO taxon, to the footprints and using the Patterson film

579
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:05.400
<v Speaker 1>site footprints as the sort of type specimen for the

580
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Igno taxon, things of that nature really serve to legitimize

581
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.720
<v Speaker 1>what is seen by most people as an outlandish or

582
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:21.599
<v Speaker 1>preposterous sort of idea or pursuit. And I can't think

583
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 1>of anyone who's done more good to legitimize this asquatch

584
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:27.880
<v Speaker 1>than Jeff's done in the last twenty five years.

585
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

586
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Bobo will be right back. After these messages. He wrote

587
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:46.119
<v Speaker 2>a paper called the Ichno Taxonomy of Giant Hominoid Tracts

588
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.519
<v Speaker 2>in North America. So let us pause on that just

589
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.920
<v Speaker 2>for a minute, because this really gets to me in

590
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.200
<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways. This is a great example of

591
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.759
<v Speaker 2>kind of what who Jeff was in a scientific and

592
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.519
<v Speaker 2>someone manner at the same time. You see that from

593
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.640
<v Speaker 2>what I understand if I remember correctly, and Jeff told

594
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:07.559
<v Speaker 2>me this story more than once. There there was a

595
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.119
<v Speaker 2>conference going on and he submitted this paper. It was

596
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.799
<v Speaker 2>about the Ichno taxonomy. Okay, Now, taxonomy is the is

597
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 2>the study or the science I guess of naming animals.

598
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, we all know that there's a genus and

599
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.359
<v Speaker 2>species name that it's in Latin, you know, Homo sapiens,

600
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:25.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, or some americanas like that kind of stuff,

601
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.880
<v Speaker 2>where there's a genus and a species name. That's what

602
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:30.000
<v Speaker 2>taxonomy is.

603
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:30.400
<v Speaker 3>You know.

604
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>In Linnaeus back in you know, several hundred years ago,

605
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:34.680
<v Speaker 2>he kind of made up that system and we all

606
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:37.920
<v Speaker 2>follow it at this moment. Ichno taxonomy is the naming

607
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.640
<v Speaker 2>of basically the naming of species, or maybe not the

608
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:47.279
<v Speaker 2>species itself, but giving a name to the footprints that

609
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.279
<v Speaker 2>come from a certain species, you know what I mean.

610
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.279
<v Speaker 2>And there was this conference going on, and so he

611
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.720
<v Speaker 2>submitted this paper to it on one hand because it

612
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:58.960
<v Speaker 2>was kind of funny in a way that yeah, I

613
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.640
<v Speaker 2>can do this and there's no rules against it. See,

614
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:04.759
<v Speaker 2>in taxonomy, you need a type specimen, a hollo type,

615
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:09.119
<v Speaker 2>you need a species sample, you know, to name something.

616
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:12.440
<v Speaker 2>But in Ichno taxonomy you need a footprint. And this

617
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:16.000
<v Speaker 2>is they use Ichno taxonomy for things like dinosaur footprints

618
00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 2>for example, or the Leatoli tracks. We don't really know

619
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:23.920
<v Speaker 2>that it was Australopithis and Australopithecus affensus that made those,

620
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:28.839
<v Speaker 2>but Ichno taxonomists have attributed it to that species, you know.

621
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.799
<v Speaker 2>So that's what ichno taxonomy kind of is. So we

622
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 2>have lots of footprints of sasquatches, and he used the

623
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Patterson Gimlin film subject as the prime example and kind

624
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.039
<v Speaker 2>of proposed a name, proposed a name for the uh

625
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:47.839
<v Speaker 2>They call it an Ichnogenus an ignospecies, you know, describing

626
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:52.039
<v Speaker 2>those footprints, you know, so like there was a species

627
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.759
<v Speaker 2>that made those. But I believe, and I could be wrong.

628
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know everything. I barely know anything I feel

629
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.319
<v Speaker 2>most days, but ichno, taxonomy is the naming of the

630
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.920
<v Speaker 2>footprint thing, not necessarily the species. Whlthough they're kind of

631
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>tied together and agree and if if I'm incorrect and

632
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:08.279
<v Speaker 2>you happen to know, let me know. But he said, well,

633
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:10.160
<v Speaker 2>we have footprints for this, and it would be a

634
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.640
<v Speaker 2>fun way to get the sasquatch thing in front of

635
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.680
<v Speaker 2>a conference of scientists who are kind of interested in footprints,

636
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 2>because I think it was a nicdo taxonomy conference that

637
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:24.200
<v Speaker 2>was going on at the time. So yeah, this is

638
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.559
<v Speaker 2>a great way to get this kind of evidence in

639
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:30.519
<v Speaker 2>front of these kinds of people and hopefully it'll turn

640
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:33.079
<v Speaker 2>a few heads and maybe even lure a couple of

641
00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:35.880
<v Speaker 2>the other mainstream scientists over to the dark side so

642
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 2>they can study sasquatches a little bit. And I don't

643
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>know if he was successful in that, but it kind

644
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:45.160
<v Speaker 2>of shows Jeff's number one scientific rigor because being interested

645
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.519
<v Speaker 2>in the sasquatch thing, Jeff had to be very very

646
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:54.279
<v Speaker 2>conservative with his claims. He had to back them up rigorously.

647
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>So anybody, if you're going to present a paper like

648
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.599
<v Speaker 2>this to a conference, he's got to make sure all

649
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.759
<v Speaker 2>his tease or crossed and ezer dotted and all that jazz,

650
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:05.440
<v Speaker 2>you know. So but also shows a sense of humor

651
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.719
<v Speaker 2>because he knew that it would ruffle some feathers. He

652
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 2>knew that going into this, but he did it anyway

653
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>because frankly, he was a badass when it came to

654
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.679
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. He was more than willing to smile

655
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.039
<v Speaker 2>and ruffle a few feathers along the way, especially when

656
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 2>he knew that he did a good job with the

657
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:27.960
<v Speaker 2>paper and there's no reason, no foundation for it being rejected.

658
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:30.199
<v Speaker 2>And of course he was rejected a few times in

659
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>various paper publications because of a sasquatch subject. But in

660
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.119
<v Speaker 2>something like this, they let us slide through, They let

661
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:38.840
<v Speaker 2>it go through, and he was just so pleased about it,

662
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and he thought that really gave him a kick. I

663
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:44.639
<v Speaker 2>remember talking to him several times about this paper and hopefully,

664
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:46.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, it turns some heads like like he was hoping,

665
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and maybe even did bring a few scientists into this

666
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:51.119
<v Speaker 2>area of interest.

667
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:54.119
<v Speaker 1>So absolutely. I pulled up the paper and I'll put

668
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>that in those links too. It looks like it was

669
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.039
<v Speaker 1>published in two thousand and seven and the ichno genus

670
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and species was anthroportepez Amora borealis North American eight foot,

671
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:06.880
<v Speaker 1>which is certainly a mouthful. So good luck spell in that, folks,

672
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.039
<v Speaker 1>But just click the link in the show notes.

673
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that'll be on the next Bobo appearance on

674
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:15.719
<v Speaker 2>Sasquatch Chronicles. For the trivia thing, you know that maybe

675
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:17.440
<v Speaker 2>they should do a spelling be next time instead of

676
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:18.360
<v Speaker 2>trivia with you bobs.

677
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:20.760
<v Speaker 1>You know what came to mind when you guys were

678
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:24.400
<v Speaker 1>talking about this stuff too, is that one aspect of

679
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Jeff's pursuit of the Sasquatch that I was always super

680
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:29.960
<v Speaker 1>interested in and I only ever got bits and pieces

681
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.920
<v Speaker 1>of from various interviews. He was a pretty avid field researcher.

682
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:35.280
<v Speaker 2>You know.

683
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.400
<v Speaker 1>He was deeply involved with those Six Rivers expeditions that

684
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Richard Greenwell led, but he also had the North American

685
00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:43.519
<v Speaker 1>ap project and did a lot of field work with

686
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 1>John Mainzinski in the Northwest and the Inner Mountain, West Wyoming, etc.

687
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:49.760
<v Speaker 1>And so you guys probably know a lot more about

688
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:53.760
<v Speaker 1>his field research, but I was always curious to learn

689
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.559
<v Speaker 1>more about all that.

690
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:56.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, hopefully in the next few weeks we'll have a

691
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.599
<v Speaker 2>guest on that can enlighten us a little bit more,

692
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:00.800
<v Speaker 2>because you know, one of the things I'd earned when

693
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>I was at Walla Walla. I went to Walla Walla,

694
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Washington to some stuff in the Blues a couple of

695
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 2>weeks ago, and I managed to finally track down a

696
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:11.880
<v Speaker 2>historic bigfooter named Brian Smith, who of course is best

697
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 2>known for the Cueterville, Idaho cast from two thousand and one,

698
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:20.440
<v Speaker 2>I believe, but I have a lengthy interview with Brian

699
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:25.079
<v Speaker 2>over lunch, and Brian saw a Sasquatch in ninety two.

700
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:26.679
<v Speaker 2>I actually saw two of them walk in front of

701
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:28.480
<v Speaker 2>his car in nineteen ninety two, and that kind of

702
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.360
<v Speaker 2>put him on the trail there, you know. And he

703
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.480
<v Speaker 2>only met Paul Freeman once, but he was very active

704
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.360
<v Speaker 2>in the Blues. He mostly hung out with West Summerland,

705
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.119
<v Speaker 2>but he ran across doctor Meldrim at some point and

706
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:41.000
<v Speaker 2>became a member of doctor Meldrum's nonprofit research group called

707
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:45.360
<v Speaker 2>the North American Eight Project, and I think Minezinski was involved.

708
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Derek Randalls, I know, was involved. Brian Smith was involved,

709
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.519
<v Speaker 2>and doctor Meldrim was the head of it all and

710
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:55.920
<v Speaker 2>stuff was a nonprofit somehow associated with the ISU, the

711
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Ido State University. But Brian was telling me stories about

712
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.880
<v Speaker 2>being in the field with doctor Meldrum. They used to

713
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 2>stay in a cabin up on Biscuit Ridge somewhere, which

714
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.800
<v Speaker 2>is one of these hills above the Wallah Walla. There's

715
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.079
<v Speaker 2>a woman gave them access to her cabin, if I

716
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:13.360
<v Speaker 2>remember right, and they used to stay there and then

717
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.239
<v Speaker 2>do field work day and night, I guess, you know,

718
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:19.000
<v Speaker 2>but they had a place to stay there. There's a

719
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.519
<v Speaker 2>lot about the field work of doctor Meldrim that I

720
00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 2>honestly don't know about. And that was one of the

721
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:29.199
<v Speaker 2>fascinating things about having conversations, you know, casual conversations with Jeff,

722
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:31.719
<v Speaker 2>is that he would bring up, you know, this time

723
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:34.599
<v Speaker 2>that he was at West Summerlin's house and you know,

724
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.480
<v Speaker 2>and his wife would do this, and like it's like

725
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:42.119
<v Speaker 2>all these personal relationships that he had with some of

726
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:44.719
<v Speaker 2>the greatest names in Bigfoot, or the most legendary names

727
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 2>in Bigfoot, you know, whether it is you know, West

728
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Summerlin or Paul Freeman, or doctor Krantz, for example, I

729
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.159
<v Speaker 2>like little things. To me, the minutia is always the

730
00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:59.199
<v Speaker 2>most meaningful in a lot of ways. You know. It's

731
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of like when they say, don't forget that the

732
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:03.719
<v Speaker 2>good old days are actually what's happening right now. You

733
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:05.519
<v Speaker 2>know that kind of thing, like the little things count

734
00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:07.559
<v Speaker 2>and that, you know that kind of thing. But I

735
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.719
<v Speaker 2>remember doctor Krantz as far as that's concerned. One time,

736
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.840
<v Speaker 2>doctor Meldrum went to visit doctor Krantz in his lab

737
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:19.039
<v Speaker 2>at Pullman in Washington, and they got out all of

738
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Krantz's footprints from a certain area and then kind of

739
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:26.960
<v Speaker 2>made a gradient of them. They like, he said, they

740
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.559
<v Speaker 2>laid him across the hallway, is what he told me.

741
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Where they Okay, well, this cast like this one over here,

742
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>cast A. We know that that's like cast. We know

743
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:41.159
<v Speaker 2>that's the same individual as cast B here, right, And

744
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.280
<v Speaker 2>this one here looks a lot like Cast C. So

745
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:46.199
<v Speaker 2>A and C must be the same. And they just

746
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.719
<v Speaker 2>kept doing that where there's like a dozen or twenty

747
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:51.679
<v Speaker 2>footprints across the hallway, and when you look at A

748
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and you know Z on the other side, they don't

749
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:58.639
<v Speaker 2>look very much alike. But since there's a connection from

750
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:00.440
<v Speaker 2>A to B and B two C B. You know

751
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.440
<v Speaker 2>that gradient exists, then you know A and Z must

752
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:06.760
<v Speaker 2>be the same, you know, that kind of logic sort

753
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 2>of thing. And he said, yeah, so where do we

754
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:11.079
<v Speaker 2>cut it off? And that was like the way one

755
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:13.840
<v Speaker 2>of the ways that doctor Krantz and doctor Meldrum started

756
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:18.760
<v Speaker 2>looking into the recurrence of individual sasquatches over time is

757
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:23.079
<v Speaker 2>by looking at the variation that is possible in the

758
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.960
<v Speaker 2>sasquatch foot. And then of course that got Jeff's brains

759
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:27.920
<v Speaker 2>moving and stuff you know about because he knows the

760
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 2>inner workings of the food pretty much better than most

761
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.519
<v Speaker 2>people do, you know, ninety nine percent or more of

762
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.840
<v Speaker 2>everybody on the planet obviously, and he said, well, that

763
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:39.119
<v Speaker 2>really got him moving on that sort of thing. You know,

764
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:42.719
<v Speaker 2>it's just like little little stories of behind the scenes.

765
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:45.639
<v Speaker 2>I've always appreciated and those are some of my most

766
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:48.559
<v Speaker 2>treasured kernels of knowledge that I've picked up from Jeff.

767
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:51.599
<v Speaker 3>I was shocked first of all in the field of them,

768
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:54.320
<v Speaker 3>because I thought I thought it was like some ivory tower,

769
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.519
<v Speaker 3>you know, geek, you know, never got outside man. He

770
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.719
<v Speaker 3>was an outdoors when he and he track and he

771
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:04.360
<v Speaker 3>he knew like what you know because he spent a

772
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:06.119
<v Speaker 3>lot of time with Myrion Chinsky too. He learned so

773
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:08.760
<v Speaker 3>much from Myrian Chinsky, you know about you know, the

774
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:13.000
<v Speaker 3>food sources and you know medicinal plants. And I was

775
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.920
<v Speaker 3>I was surprised. I was pretty stuck, you know, going

776
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:17.840
<v Speaker 3>out with them and getting in the woods of them

777
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 3>and learning from him.

778
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.440
<v Speaker 4>Am I remembering correctly, Cliff, that there was a sort

779
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.119
<v Speaker 4>of like a similar interaction with you and Jeff where

780
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.480
<v Speaker 4>you would pointed out two of the Blue Mountain casts

781
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.320
<v Speaker 4>and say like, hey, Jeff, I think these are the

782
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.039
<v Speaker 4>same individual and he sort of realized that one was

783
00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:35.800
<v Speaker 4>pronated one supernated. Am I remembering that story correctly?

784
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:38.599
<v Speaker 2>That's absolutely correct. Yeah. One of the times I was

785
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:42.039
<v Speaker 2>in his lab because and I don't remember when this was.

786
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.119
<v Speaker 2>It might have been when I was in filming in

787
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.480
<v Speaker 2>bokatell and finding Bigfoot. I'm not sure, because I know

788
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:49.559
<v Speaker 2>we filmed in his lab. But I went back the

789
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.000
<v Speaker 2>next day, like Jeff invited me back the next day,

790
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.760
<v Speaker 2>and I kind of, you know, ran rampant through his lab.

791
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:57.760
<v Speaker 2>But I've been to his lab with him probably three

792
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.320
<v Speaker 2>or four times. I don't remember exactly how many times.

793
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:02.960
<v Speaker 2>But on one of these occasions, Jeff had work to do.

794
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:05.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, he's a professor, he's got emails, he's got

795
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.639
<v Speaker 2>things to do, grading papers or whatever whatever you had

796
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.079
<v Speaker 2>to do. And his lab is you know, it's kind

797
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.599
<v Speaker 2>of big. I mean maybe thirty feet by twenty feet

798
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.480
<v Speaker 2>or something like that, I don't know. And there's a

799
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:20.199
<v Speaker 2>small little area that's like probably ten by ten or less,

800
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:22.639
<v Speaker 2>and that's where his desk and computer and books and

801
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:24.400
<v Speaker 2>stuff are, and the rest of it's just you know,

802
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.960
<v Speaker 2>like science nerd stuff, you know, footprints and all that jazz.

803
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 2>So he had stuff to do at his desk, so's

804
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:33.880
<v Speaker 2>he said, well, yeah, why don't you rummage through the drawers, man,

805
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:35.800
<v Speaker 2>see what's of interest here for you? And I go

806
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.239
<v Speaker 2>all right, you know, and then he went to go

807
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:40.119
<v Speaker 2>or I don't know how you could work like over me,

808
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.480
<v Speaker 2>giggling like a schoolgirl outside every two minutes about something.

809
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:44.639
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't know how he could do it

810
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.840
<v Speaker 2>focus with me making so much noise and my shrieks

811
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:51.039
<v Speaker 2>of glee as I went through the drawers and looked

812
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.239
<v Speaker 2>at various casts and things like that. I'm exaggerating a

813
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:57.199
<v Speaker 2>little bit but not that much. But at one point

814
00:41:57.280 --> 00:41:59.039
<v Speaker 2>I pulled out two casts, and one of them was

815
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.159
<v Speaker 2>from West Summerland, and one of them was from Paul Freeman.

816
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it was nineteen eighty six and nineteen eighty eight.

817
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:10.719
<v Speaker 2>One of them was from I think the Freeman. One

818
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.639
<v Speaker 2>was from a place called Yellow Jacket, which is over

819
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.320
<v Speaker 2>by Tiger Saddle and the Blue Mountains and the other places.

820
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:20.440
<v Speaker 2>The other one is from a place called Indian Camp,

821
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:23.480
<v Speaker 2>which is some miles away, maybe five miles away or

822
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:25.840
<v Speaker 2>something like that, maybe seven at the most.

823
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:26.079
<v Speaker 3>I think.

824
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.559
<v Speaker 2>But I was looking at the two prints, and one

825
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 2>of them, the toes were across the top, and then

826
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.559
<v Speaker 2>the other one of the toes were slanted diagonally down

827
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:37.199
<v Speaker 2>the side. But I was looking at it and the

828
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:41.480
<v Speaker 2>toes stood out to me in an interesting way. And

829
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:45.119
<v Speaker 2>I brought them to Jeff and I said, Jeff, I'm

830
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:47.400
<v Speaker 2>sorry interrupting or whatever you're doing what you do? And

831
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I said, are these the same individual? And he goes,

832
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 2>let's take a look, and stood He stood up and

833
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:56.840
<v Speaker 2>he says, I've always kind of thought that, but now

834
00:42:56.840 --> 00:42:58.920
<v Speaker 2>that you're saying it, let's really take a look at this,

835
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:00.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, And then we eate them both down, and

836
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.199
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, look at the shape of the big toe,

837
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:04.920
<v Speaker 2>because that's something i'd noticed at that point in my life,

838
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.360
<v Speaker 2>because I mean, I'm surrounded by footprint casts. I mean,

839
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.960
<v Speaker 2>both of you guys have been in my garage. It's

840
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:12.360
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous around here. I'm surrounded by footprint casts every time

841
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 2>I go anywhere in my house. And so I said,

842
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:17.119
<v Speaker 2>look at the big toe. I mean, halex is really

843
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:20.360
<v Speaker 2>a differentiator as far as individual sasquatches go. I'm completely

844
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.519
<v Speaker 2>confident of that, in the same sort of way that

845
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:27.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, the tail fins of whales are used to

846
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:31.920
<v Speaker 2>identify individual whales, or the dorsal fins of orcas or

847
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:35.719
<v Speaker 2>great white sharks are used to identify individual animals, you know,

848
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:39.320
<v Speaker 2>just like you know our faces are used for human beings,

849
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:40.559
<v Speaker 2>like I know what Matt looks like, I know what

850
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Bobo looks like. These other identifiers and other animals are

851
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.960
<v Speaker 2>pretty they stand out, and the halex, the big toe

852
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.760
<v Speaker 2>on sasquatch footprints is one of those things that stands

853
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:53.559
<v Speaker 2>out to at least me, because I've seen so many

854
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:55.920
<v Speaker 2>footprint casts and I'm surrounded by them all the time.

855
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:58.960
<v Speaker 2>But the halex on. Both of these are very very similar,

856
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:01.519
<v Speaker 2>and I say what he's and they're about the same length,

857
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:03.840
<v Speaker 2>and they weren't that far apart. So Jeff laid him

858
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.840
<v Speaker 2>down and we started talking about it, and and he goes, oh, yeah,

859
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.639
<v Speaker 2>I think they are. And then he started talking about

860
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:11.960
<v Speaker 2>the supernation and pronation of the foot. And you can

861
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.559
<v Speaker 2>imagine how how happy that made me. Is Like, even

862
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:18.280
<v Speaker 2>though Jeff had kind of considered that before, he had

863
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:21.760
<v Speaker 2>never really done the grunt work of getting it down

864
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.840
<v Speaker 2>and moving it around and comparing the two and and

865
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and and again. To Jeff's credit of being a fantastic

866
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:32.440
<v Speaker 2>and humble human being, he would he would say that, like, yeah,

867
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Cliff Barrickmhan was in my lab and he pointed this

868
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.159
<v Speaker 2>out to me, and I'd always thought so, but it

869
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.800
<v Speaker 2>was it was, you know, through through U. I mean,

870
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.519
<v Speaker 2>we did that, and I think that's so That's just

871
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.159
<v Speaker 2>I almost said the F word there. It's so cool

872
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:51.199
<v Speaker 2>to have been able to, I guess, be there or

873
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:55.599
<v Speaker 2>pointed out, you know, or nudge him to like confirm

874
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:57.280
<v Speaker 2>my thought. I mean, I don't know what I did,

875
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.840
<v Speaker 2>but I was there and it was cool. And I've

876
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:03.199
<v Speaker 2>even seen it just yesterday. I think I saw maybe

877
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:05.960
<v Speaker 2>today I saw a diagram of those two casts with

878
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.000
<v Speaker 2>an explanation underneath it, and I'm thinking, yeah, that's I

879
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:11.400
<v Speaker 2>was there. That's cool. That was really neat when that

880
00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:17.079
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote discovery was made. And I'm thrilled that Jeff listened,

881
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:20.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, because you would think that somebody of his

882
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 2>stature wouldn't need to listen to the little guy like me.

883
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:25.639
<v Speaker 2>It's just really cool.

884
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.920
<v Speaker 3>Well that happened. I was like, damn, Cliff, you made it.

885
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm just lucky enough to know the guy. You know,

886
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.639
<v Speaker 2>stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

887
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Bobo will be right back. After these messages. The few

888
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:48.960
<v Speaker 2>times I've heard him speak and my name came up

889
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:51.039
<v Speaker 2>for something that I contributed in some sort of way,

890
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:52.840
<v Speaker 2>that makes me feel good, you know.

891
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:53.559
<v Speaker 1>You know.

892
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.519
<v Speaker 2>It's like you mentioned earlier, the Jerry Crew footprint. You

893
00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.400
<v Speaker 2>know how that that the Jerry Crew footprint. From a

894
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:00.239
<v Speaker 2>certain angle, you can see that there's a mid victual

895
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:03.039
<v Speaker 2>pressure ridge there. But I could never been noticed before

896
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:06.039
<v Speaker 2>because the cast was you know, kind of hidden away

897
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.480
<v Speaker 2>in the Crew family collection and no one really had

898
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:12.599
<v Speaker 2>access to it. But that's something that you know, Bobo

899
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:14.599
<v Speaker 2>and I kind of had a small part in a

900
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.280
<v Speaker 2>way because the first time that the cast had been

901
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:22.159
<v Speaker 2>brought out into public was when we were filming Finding Bigfoot.

902
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:24.719
<v Speaker 2>The producers for Finding Bigfoot got a hold of the

903
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:28.440
<v Speaker 2>crew family and Wade and John came out to the

904
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.519
<v Speaker 2>site and we got to see the actual cast. We

905
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:34.000
<v Speaker 2>were like amongst the first people in Bigfoot Nerd Nerd Bill,

906
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:37.559
<v Speaker 2>you know that, to actually see the actual cast in

907
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:40.559
<v Speaker 2>decades and decades and decades, and I took I took

908
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:43.159
<v Speaker 2>several pictures of it, of course with permission from John

909
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Crue and Wade, and it was it's that photograph that

910
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I sent the Doctor Meldrum that he used for that comparison.

911
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:55.440
<v Speaker 2>It's just another cool thing that I was accidentally involved in,

912
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just so thankful that I had a chance

913
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.119
<v Speaker 2>to contribute something. I'll send that article over right now

914
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:03.920
<v Speaker 2>and you can link it in the show notes below

915
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:06.719
<v Speaker 2>about the Supernation, and it has photographs of those two casts,

916
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.000
<v Speaker 2>and actually this particular article even has photographs of the

917
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:13.840
<v Speaker 2>cast from China and the Labrity casts and as well

918
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:15.599
<v Speaker 2>as the tipmus stuff too. So I'll send that over

919
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:16.239
<v Speaker 2>to you right now.

920
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:17.280
<v Speaker 3>Excellent.

921
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:19.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean we haven't even talked about his book yet.

922
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.639
<v Speaker 2>No, just kind of buddy, we haven't even mentioned relatominoids.

923
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:30.519
<v Speaker 2>The scientific context in which sasquatches certainly reside this idea

924
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.679
<v Speaker 2>that species that were probably once more abundant on the

925
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:38.960
<v Speaker 2>planet are now in small, isolated pockets all throughout the world.

926
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:42.239
<v Speaker 2>And that's what sasquatches certainly are some sort of relict

927
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.639
<v Speaker 2>species that still exists. That goes to Jeff as well,

928
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.760
<v Speaker 2>like giving scientists a reason to think sasquatches could be real.

929
00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.719
<v Speaker 1>But man, when his book came out, say, I first

930
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:56.519
<v Speaker 1>discovered Jeff through Mysterious Encounters, which is so funny because

931
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I was just obsessed with that show, and that's where

932
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.000
<v Speaker 1>I first discovered Bubba too. So part of me is

933
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:02.920
<v Speaker 1>still like it's so weird to do a podcast with

934
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Bobo because I've been like Bobo was one of the

935
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:07.480
<v Speaker 1>first squatchers I ever saw, you know what I mean,

936
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.440
<v Speaker 1>because he was in several episodes of that show. But

937
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:12.599
<v Speaker 1>that's where I first saw Jeff and then started following

938
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.599
<v Speaker 1>other things. Even though Legend Meete Science the documentary had

939
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 1>come out prior to the show I didn't see that

940
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:21.960
<v Speaker 1>documentary until after I watched Mysterious Encounters. Boat was really

941
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:24.960
<v Speaker 1>interested in him and trying to track down interviews that

942
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.639
<v Speaker 1>were online, many of which were text interviews print interviews.

943
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.719
<v Speaker 1>But then I remember when the book was announced and

944
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:33.760
<v Speaker 1>I bought the book like immediately when it came out,

945
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:36.079
<v Speaker 1>when it hit shelves back in the days when you

946
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.239
<v Speaker 1>had to go to Barnes and Noble or Borders or whatever,

947
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:41.239
<v Speaker 1>to a physical bookstore to get new books, new releases,

948
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:44.519
<v Speaker 1>instead of having them delivered to your door. And I

949
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:47.719
<v Speaker 1>bought two copies. So I was so excited to read it.

950
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:49.519
<v Speaker 1>And you know, i'd been pursuing it for a couple

951
00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:52.440
<v Speaker 1>of years at that point, and as one does, you know,

952
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:55.280
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to get everyone you know and care about

953
00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to be as interested as you are. And so I

954
00:48:57.960 --> 00:48:59.760
<v Speaker 1>bought a copy for me and a copy for my dad.

955
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:01.920
<v Speaker 1>You have to read this, even though I hadn't fully

956
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:06.760
<v Speaker 1>ready yet, but that book was super impactful because at

957
00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:10.559
<v Speaker 1>that point I had only read a handful of books.

958
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:12.280
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of hard to track them all down at

959
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:14.239
<v Speaker 1>that point in time. So I'd read Krantz's book, which

960
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.440
<v Speaker 1>was the first book that i'd read, and I think

961
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:20.159
<v Speaker 1>I had already read Lauren Coleman's Bigfoot The True Story

962
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:22.960
<v Speaker 1>of Apes in America. I didn't even find a copy

963
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.280
<v Speaker 1>of Apes among us, I think, until after I read

964
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Meldrem's book. But so that was one of the first

965
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:31.400
<v Speaker 1>texts and just had a huge impact. And that was

966
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:33.280
<v Speaker 1>one of those things that set the bar of like

967
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I need to really get a grasp of the concepts

968
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:42.000
<v Speaker 1>and the language, etc. It was shortly thereafter, because I

969
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:44.719
<v Speaker 1>think Jeff's book came out in two thousand and six,

970
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:49.480
<v Speaker 1>and then I enrolled in college and the first course

971
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I signed up for was physical anthropology, and that was

972
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:55.719
<v Speaker 1>all because I was so inspired by that book and

973
00:49:55.840 --> 00:49:59.440
<v Speaker 1>well the subject in general. But it Crantz's book to

974
00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:02.639
<v Speaker 1>some degree to me, Meldrims was more comprehensive, you know,

975
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:04.960
<v Speaker 1>because it's a little more up to date. But Miltrims

976
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.519
<v Speaker 1>was a bit more accessible to me at that time.

977
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:10.199
<v Speaker 1>But that has to be I mean, what do you

978
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:12.840
<v Speaker 1>guys think that's probably the best selling Sasquatch book of

979
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:14.599
<v Speaker 1>all time? I would think I.

980
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:15.599
<v Speaker 2>Think it's the most important.

981
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's someone I see everywhere, whether it's

982
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:23.199
<v Speaker 1>like new on shelves and used bookstores Like I just

983
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.239
<v Speaker 1>when you see that many copies of it out in

984
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the world, you think, man, a lot of people have

985
00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:30.400
<v Speaker 1>bought this book. If new stores are keeping it in stock,

986
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:32.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know enough have been sold that you know,

987
00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:36.239
<v Speaker 1>eventually people pass it on to the used bookshop and

988
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:39.519
<v Speaker 1>it's just a very it's the ubiquitous Sasquatch book.

989
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really is.

990
00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, he had it, got it got a lot of

991
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:45.880
<v Speaker 3>press when it came out. One of the reasons it's

992
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:47.880
<v Speaker 3>got so much press is because Jane Goodall had just

993
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.960
<v Speaker 3>you know, recently given that NPR interview where she said

994
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:55.639
<v Speaker 3>she thought there were undiscovered, undiscovered really commentades around the world.

995
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:59.119
<v Speaker 3>Then she wrote that blurb on Jeff's book saying, you know,

996
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.199
<v Speaker 3>saying the same thing, saying, and Jeff came out here

997
00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:05.719
<v Speaker 3>and he was at the Willow Creek Museum, you know,

998
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:08.920
<v Speaker 3>going through stuff and you know, like the old tracks

999
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:13.920
<v Speaker 3>and Cassie had there and documenting them. And I went

1000
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:16.320
<v Speaker 3>out there and was, you know, kind of bugging him,

1001
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:18.559
<v Speaker 3>like he didn't need me there, but I was just like,

1002
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:20.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, I was trying to be like a gopher

1003
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:23.800
<v Speaker 3>boy whatever whatever he needed. Then Jane Gettall was speaking

1004
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:26.840
<v Speaker 3>that night in Arcada, doat Humble State University, which is like,

1005
00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:29.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, forty five minutes down on the coast, and

1006
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:31.320
<v Speaker 3>so I gave I drove Jeff down there, and I

1007
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:35.199
<v Speaker 3>bought three of his books, and uh, it was sold out.

1008
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:37.000
<v Speaker 3>It was like I think there was fourteen hundred and

1009
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:42.280
<v Speaker 3>sixteen hundred people there. And afterwards she came she came

1010
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:44.519
<v Speaker 3>out in the lobby and was signing stuff and like

1011
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.639
<v Speaker 3>you literally it was like a factory line, dude. It

1012
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:48.960
<v Speaker 3>was like they they had a couple of people tell

1013
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:51.119
<v Speaker 3>you like before you get to the front, like you

1014
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.599
<v Speaker 3>only got like six seconds, and then they gave you

1015
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:55.519
<v Speaker 3>little pieces of paper. You had to write your name

1016
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:57.800
<v Speaker 3>and spell it properly, like you know, print it so

1017
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.199
<v Speaker 3>that she could see it and sign real fast like

1018
00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:03.480
<v Speaker 3>say to so and so Jane goodall, and like it

1019
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:05.880
<v Speaker 3>was and she was super tired. Was the last day

1020
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:08.199
<v Speaker 3>of her like two month trip through America, like her

1021
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:10.800
<v Speaker 3>big fundraising trip of the year, and the very next

1022
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:12.559
<v Speaker 3>night she had to be back in London for like

1023
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:15.920
<v Speaker 3>the biggest whatever that Wilderness Society over there is, I

1024
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:19.440
<v Speaker 3>forget what it's called, but like the biggest one and

1025
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.519
<v Speaker 3>it was that that night it's the biggest fun night,

1026
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:25.159
<v Speaker 3>Razor Night for her chimp research projects, and so it

1027
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:27.079
<v Speaker 3>was like a big deal and she was and you

1028
00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:28.719
<v Speaker 3>can just see she was so run down, but she

1029
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:31.599
<v Speaker 3>gave a great talk. And when we were in line,

1030
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:34.119
<v Speaker 3>people like there was people heckling me, going like oh,

1031
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:37.639
<v Speaker 3>bigfoot stuff this and that, you know, and I was talking, smacking,

1032
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:40.320
<v Speaker 3>like I was yelling at people like you're fools, like

1033
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:42.400
<v Speaker 3>you idiot, you know. And Jeff was just like what

1034
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:44.679
<v Speaker 3>the hell is going on? Like who am I with?

1035
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:49.239
<v Speaker 3>You know, and and uh, we get up there and

1036
00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:53.280
<v Speaker 3>Jane Goodall he goes, he goes hi, Jane, I'm I'm Jeff,

1037
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:56.559
<v Speaker 3>and she goes doctor Meldrum and she just stopped the line,

1038
00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:58.599
<v Speaker 3>and like, dude, it was like they had people like

1039
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:00.760
<v Speaker 3>doing the Peter Burn and you're like avenue and pushing

1040
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:02.199
<v Speaker 3>you away, going okay, nice to meet you.

1041
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:04.639
<v Speaker 2>To buy, you know, like she had doing the Peter Burn.

1042
00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:10.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just pumping people through. And she stopped and for

1043
00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:12.840
<v Speaker 3>like five six, seven minutes, she talked to Jeff about

1044
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:16.079
<v Speaker 3>the book. She signed our she signed up, she signed book,

1045
00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:17.840
<v Speaker 3>she signed a couple of books for him. She signed

1046
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:21.079
<v Speaker 3>three for me, I think three for him, and I

1047
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:22.679
<v Speaker 3>just looked for when we moved, I was looking for

1048
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:25.599
<v Speaker 3>those books and I couldn't. Finally, when my house got

1049
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:27.519
<v Speaker 3>ripped off by that guy was staying with me like

1050
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:31.239
<v Speaker 3>years ago, I'm sure now I know he sold them,

1051
00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:34.159
<v Speaker 3>but uh, yeah, it was. It was really cool, like

1052
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.039
<v Speaker 3>to see and like Jeff getting that validation, you know,

1053
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:40.159
<v Speaker 3>in front of everyone, and you know, it was uh

1054
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:42.400
<v Speaker 3>because he was he was kind of like a few

1055
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:44.400
<v Speaker 3>people recognized him, not not too many, but a couple

1056
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:47.760
<v Speaker 3>of people recognized him, and they kind of made, you know,

1057
00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 3>snotty comments like jokes about it, and so uh. She

1058
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:55.159
<v Speaker 3>she was very excited to meet Jeff. And I was

1059
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:58.119
<v Speaker 3>telling her that we had just found those those nests

1060
00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:02.079
<v Speaker 3>up in uh North up by Rowed National Park. We'd

1061
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:05.760
<v Speaker 3>found those nests up there, and she she really wanted

1062
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:07.360
<v Speaker 3>to see him. They were still there, like they got

1063
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.360
<v Speaker 3>kind of destroyed in the windstorms the next over the

1064
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:13.360
<v Speaker 3>next two winners, they really got thrash, but she she

1065
00:54:13.400 --> 00:54:14.679
<v Speaker 3>wanted to go see. We were going to show them

1066
00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:17.840
<v Speaker 3>to her, and she was so excited. They just her

1067
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.119
<v Speaker 3>team said, no, this is your biggest fundraiser. You have

1068
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:21.559
<v Speaker 3>to go back, We have to leave for she was

1069
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:24.360
<v Speaker 3>flying out on the midnight flight and going straight back

1070
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:27.639
<v Speaker 3>right out of London and she was already burnt out.

1071
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:31.360
<v Speaker 3>So they didn't they didn't let her go, but she

1072
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.679
<v Speaker 3>she really wanted to go. And but it was really

1073
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:36.760
<v Speaker 3>cool seeing Jeff get like that validation, you know, such

1074
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:39.800
<v Speaker 3>an important figure, you know, in the global community of

1075
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:41.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, primatology.

1076
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:44.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I mean who And again this is not

1077
00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to disparage the people of the past in any way,

1078
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.159
<v Speaker 1>but for someone to come along and right of work

1079
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:52.880
<v Speaker 1>that's so good that it's endorsed by Jane Goodall, who

1080
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:55.800
<v Speaker 1>did the first you know, observational field studies of chimpanzees,

1081
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:59.199
<v Speaker 1>and George Shaller, who did the first observational field studies

1082
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:05.039
<v Speaker 1>of mountain guerrillas. Like no other sasquatch oriented, writer, academic,

1083
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:10.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, researcher, et cetera, got those sorts of endorsements period. Yeah,

1084
00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:14.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, Schaller and Goodall are pretty heavy hitters, like

1085
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:17.360
<v Speaker 1>like Bobo said, on the global stage, not just like

1086
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:21.039
<v Speaker 1>within their field, but you know Schawler's work with snow leopards,

1087
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:24.559
<v Speaker 1>on and on and on. So that in itself speaks

1088
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:27.840
<v Speaker 1>to you know, again, the legitimacy that he was able

1089
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:29.760
<v Speaker 1>to bring to the pursuit of the sasquatch.

1090
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:30.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1091
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And again it's because I think it's because of

1092
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:35.920
<v Speaker 2>the bigfoot thing that he was so careful in his

1093
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.480
<v Speaker 2>academic work, because clearly that's something that I don't think

1094
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:44.199
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of bigfooters appreciate, is that, you know,

1095
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.159
<v Speaker 2>bigfooting is fun and it's the subject that we all

1096
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:48.079
<v Speaker 2>love and all that sort of stuff, but when you

1097
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:52.559
<v Speaker 2>speak publicly about sasquatches, there's a certain responsibility that goes

1098
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:56.000
<v Speaker 2>with that. In my opinion, that's maybe that's what irks

1099
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:58.519
<v Speaker 2>me about the newer generation being a little flipping about it.

1100
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.559
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's it deserves better. And I always

1101
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:05.039
<v Speaker 2>felt that doctor Meldrum was the best ambassador for the

1102
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:07.239
<v Speaker 2>subject in so many different ways because he did take

1103
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the subject so seriously, yet he enjoyed it. But also

1104
00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:13.840
<v Speaker 2>he was so careful about everything, so conservative in his

1105
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:19.000
<v Speaker 2>science and his claims and his thoughts. You know, he

1106
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:22.639
<v Speaker 2>thought he would entertain interesting thoughts, of course, but like

1107
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:24.840
<v Speaker 2>when if he came to I came to public publication,

1108
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:28.719
<v Speaker 2>he knew that the eyes of the world were on him.

1109
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:34.559
<v Speaker 2>He knew that, so his scholarship had to be impeccable,

1110
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:38.960
<v Speaker 2>and I think by and large it was. I mean,

1111
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:43.400
<v Speaker 2>it surpassed impeccability in so many ways. And it's so

1112
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.639
<v Speaker 2>sad that he didn't live to get the recognition that

1113
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:47.519
<v Speaker 2>he will eventually get.

1114
00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:50.599
<v Speaker 3>It makes me think they're going to discover, like recognize

1115
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:53.800
<v Speaker 3>it soon, because of course I will be like, yeah,

1116
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:57.639
<v Speaker 3>he died just before like the the DNA results came out,

1117
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:01.079
<v Speaker 3>or you know, it'll be something that gives me hope

1118
00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:02.639
<v Speaker 3>that it's going to happen sooner than later now, because

1119
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:04.079
<v Speaker 3>I was thinking, like, God, it's gonna be so long

1120
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:07.480
<v Speaker 3>for whatever happens. Nothing like it just that's the way

1121
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:10.480
<v Speaker 3>the world works. Like Jeff passes away, then there's gonna

1122
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:12.679
<v Speaker 3>be some breaking, like you know, whether you know the

1123
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:14.880
<v Speaker 3>relatively short time in a few years or something.

1124
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:17.360
<v Speaker 2>I feel that's true. And one of the reasons I

1125
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:20.079
<v Speaker 2>started thinking that is I never really thought about it.

1126
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.000
<v Speaker 2>But he was born in nineteen fifty eight, the same

1127
00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:26.280
<v Speaker 2>year that the word bigfoot was born in basically is

1128
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:28.280
<v Speaker 2>born in nineteen fifty eight, And wouldn't it be just

1129
00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:30.599
<v Speaker 2>a kick if twenty twenty five, when he checked out.

1130
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:34.840
<v Speaker 2>That's when it happened, you know. But I will say

1131
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:39.559
<v Speaker 2>that Jeff's passing has ignited a fire in me to

1132
00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:41.920
<v Speaker 2>do the best job we possibly can to get this

1133
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:45.079
<v Speaker 2>thing done. Doing it for Jeff Man. We're doing it

1134
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:45.559
<v Speaker 2>for Jeff.

1135
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:47.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, amen to that.

1136
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:53.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he his voice was so sorely needed. And

1137
00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:55.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, he came at a time when Krantz was

1138
00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:57.800
<v Speaker 1>still around and when binner Nagel was still around, and

1139
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:01.480
<v Speaker 1>really since binner Nagel passed twenty eighteen, Jeff has been

1140
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the lone voice. He always had the sort of the biggest, strongest,

1141
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:09.199
<v Speaker 1>most sober, considered and again desperately needed voice in the

1142
00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:12.639
<v Speaker 1>field of sasquatchery. But for the last seven years, in

1143
00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:14.960
<v Speaker 1>terms of academics and scientists, he's kind of been the

1144
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:18.400
<v Speaker 1>lone voice, at least as far as anthropologists are concerned.

1145
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:21.920
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, it has always set a standard that I've

1146
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:25.280
<v Speaker 1>been trying my best to reach. I mean, that's why

1147
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:28.440
<v Speaker 1>I tried to be a perpetual student and become like

1148
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:32.719
<v Speaker 1>autodidactic and build a library about relevant discipline so that

1149
00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:37.719
<v Speaker 1>I could hopefully, you know, live up to you something

1150
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:40.760
<v Speaker 1>that Jeff would take. Oh, you're you're a good student,

1151
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:44.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, without having a degree byself. So in the

1152
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:47.079
<v Speaker 1>absence of that mean he's very much a north star

1153
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:51.199
<v Speaker 1>for me and many many people. So his absence leaves

1154
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:54.239
<v Speaker 1>a massive void. But yeah, the only way to even

1155
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:56.800
<v Speaker 1>think about filling that void is to say, like, well,

1156
00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:59.119
<v Speaker 1>we just have to aim as high as we can

1157
00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:01.000
<v Speaker 1>to reach the standard that Jeff said.

1158
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:05.280
<v Speaker 2>And he would want that because one of his major pushes,

1159
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:08.280
<v Speaker 2>because he recognized this that he recognized the fact that

1160
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:10.599
<v Speaker 2>the scientists weren't paying attention as much as they probably

1161
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:13.360
<v Speaker 2>ought to be. And so it's up to us, the

1162
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:17.119
<v Speaker 2>citizen scientists, it's up to us to rise to their level,

1163
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:20.920
<v Speaker 2>since I mean, since they're not doing it, they're in

1164
00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:24.480
<v Speaker 2>my opinion, they're not being responsible, you know, by looking

1165
00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:27.880
<v Speaker 2>into things that they're interested in and curious about. And

1166
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:30.440
<v Speaker 2>some scientists might say that, well, it's because of the

1167
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:33.800
<v Speaker 2>evidence doesn't hold up, and I say, malarkey, you need

1168
00:59:33.800 --> 00:59:35.480
<v Speaker 2>to look a little bit closer, you need to look

1169
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:39.039
<v Speaker 2>a broader scope of the evidence. You need to look

1170
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:41.360
<v Speaker 2>at the thing as a whole. The best evidence for

1171
00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:44.159
<v Speaker 2>Sasquatch is not one single thing. It's not the film,

1172
00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:47.239
<v Speaker 2>it's not a footprint. It's how it all goes together,

1173
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:51.039
<v Speaker 2>and it's congruent. And I think that it's a it's

1174
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.239
<v Speaker 2>a negligence of their duty in a lot of ways

1175
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 2>because and I can't blame them, you know, scientists, the

1176
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:01.079
<v Speaker 2>academic scientists are looking at that GRANTMA and they're looking

1177
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:05.719
<v Speaker 2>at ladder in their career, they're looking at that kind

1178
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:10.920
<v Speaker 2>of stuff. But I think that it's up to us, man,

1179
01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:14.000
<v Speaker 2>and especially since Jeff's gone now, it's up to the

1180
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:17.960
<v Speaker 2>citizens scientists to get the job done because until then,

1181
01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:20.159
<v Speaker 2>the academics aren't going to move on it. No one's

1182
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:23.039
<v Speaker 2>coming to save us. We got to do it. And

1183
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:26.239
<v Speaker 2>that's the lesson that I took from Jeff. It's up

1184
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:28.119
<v Speaker 2>to me, it's up to you. It's up to us

1185
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to do the best job we possibly can and to

1186
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:36.119
<v Speaker 2>rise to their level because they couldn't imagine stooping to ours. Well.

1187
01:00:36.199 --> 01:00:39.639
<v Speaker 1>So and again, I'll put together a big repository because

1188
01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:42.039
<v Speaker 1>there's so many great papers that Jeff wrote that were

1189
01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:44.920
<v Speaker 1>published in other places like the Journal of Scientific Exploration,

1190
01:00:45.639 --> 01:00:48.639
<v Speaker 1>a number of other sources that are available online, and

1191
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.079
<v Speaker 1>so I'll have a big companion of all those things.

1192
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if there's any single sasquatch researcher who

1193
01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:57.800
<v Speaker 1>has been interviewed more than Jeff, again speaking to his generosity,

1194
01:00:58.159 --> 01:01:00.079
<v Speaker 1>So I will put together what you know, I I

1195
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:01.679
<v Speaker 1>think are the sort of like best of the best

1196
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:05.960
<v Speaker 1>interviews that cover a lot of ground. Thankfully due to

1197
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.639
<v Speaker 1>his generosity, anyone who's just if you're hearing this for

1198
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the first time the day of its release, or if

1199
01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:14.400
<v Speaker 1>you're hearing this in the year twenty thirty, you two

1200
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:16.559
<v Speaker 1>can be a student of Jeff's even though he's gone,

1201
01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:19.079
<v Speaker 1>Like you can read his book, you can read these papers,

1202
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:21.840
<v Speaker 1>you can listen to I would say, hundreds of hours

1203
01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:25.320
<v Speaker 1>of interviews and be a student of his, and I

1204
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:27.840
<v Speaker 1>definitely encourage that. But I will do my best to

1205
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:31.199
<v Speaker 1>create like a one stop shop repository what I think

1206
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:32.800
<v Speaker 1>is the best of the best for our listeners, and

1207
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:34.199
<v Speaker 1>I'll have that link in the show notes.

1208
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, it's just it's I mean, we're talking

1209
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:38.639
<v Speaker 3>about what a blow does for our community. And he's

1210
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:41.519
<v Speaker 3>got six sons, a wife, I mean, you know, his

1211
01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:45.159
<v Speaker 3>other family members, nephews, nieces. I mean, he's leaven a

1212
01:01:45.159 --> 01:01:47.239
<v Speaker 3>big hole in a lot of hearts, you know, so

1213
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:49.880
<v Speaker 3>deevis condolences to his whole family.

1214
01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, And on that personal side, you know, both of

1215
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:56.320
<v Speaker 1>you guys spent a lot of time with Jeff. Like

1216
01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:58.079
<v Speaker 1>I said, I used to watch the mys Serious Encounters,

1217
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:01.880
<v Speaker 1>so I've seen Jeff and Bobo taking Bob Gimlin to

1218
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:04.159
<v Speaker 1>the Patterson Gimlin film site for the first time and

1219
01:02:04.199 --> 01:02:06.119
<v Speaker 1>however many years that was, And so I thought it

1220
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:09.039
<v Speaker 1>would be fun, you know, maybe on the members side,

1221
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:11.400
<v Speaker 1>if I could ask you guys about some of like

1222
01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the personal stories, personal memories, you know, adventures, funny times,

1223
01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:17.079
<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing.

1224
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:19.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that'd be cool.

1225
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, there's some great musings and it's wonderful times

1226
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:24.440
<v Speaker 2>with Jeff. I'd be happy to share.

1227
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:27.159
<v Speaker 3>Those, Okay. Yeah, then we'll go over to the Patreon

1228
01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:32.800
<v Speaker 3>and from the members and we'll do some more personal yeah,

1229
01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:35.079
<v Speaker 3>because we got some fun with Jeff. He was he

1230
01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:39.400
<v Speaker 3>was as he's a fun guy tovie with. So okay, folks, well,

1231
01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:42.039
<v Speaker 3>like we set all our condolences to the Meldrum family

1232
01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:44.199
<v Speaker 3>and Jeff, we all miss you and love you, Bud.

1233
01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:48.320
<v Speaker 3>So thanks for listening and follow those links. If you've

1234
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:50.760
<v Speaker 3>never read his stuff, check it out. Get his book

1235
01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:52.800
<v Speaker 3>read these papers mask on a link to in the

1236
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:57.000
<v Speaker 3>show notes and learn, you know, just hit yourself on

1237
01:02:56.840 --> 01:02:59.679
<v Speaker 3>the on the squatch. It's more than just scary stories.

1238
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:02.760
<v Speaker 3>So all right, well, thanks for tuning in focus. Until

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<v Speaker 3>next time, y'all, keep it squatchy.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

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<v Speaker 2>If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

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<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram

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<v Speaker 2>at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

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<v Speaker 2>Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,

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<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot and Beyond