1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,040
Speaker 1: What if a nineteen sixty two nuclear blast over the

2
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,440
Pacific didn't just light up the sky, what if it

3
00:00:07,519 --> 00:00:10,800
knocked something out of it? That claim from the late

4
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,839
Harold Mongren and a bombshell interview with Jesse Michaels of

5
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,879
American Alchemy. Mongren, an advisor to four US presidents, said,

6
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,440
classified footage from the Bluegild Triple Prime nuclear test shows

7
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:29,519
a UAP, an unidentified non human craft falling from the heavens.

8
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,560
The story doesn't end there. Retired Washington DC lobbyist Douglas

9
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,320
Dean Johnson fires back with three blistering articles aimed at

10
00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:43,880
discrediting the late Mongren and his claims. Today, researcher Jeff

11
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,679
Crookshank joins us with a forty page counter strike strap

12
00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:51,640
in the battle over what really fell from the sky

13
00:00:51,840 --> 00:01:01,320
in nineteen sixty two starts now. Everyone, I'm Matt Ford,

14
00:01:01,439 --> 00:01:04,200
and welcome to the Good Trouble Show. I want to

15
00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,920
take a moment and wish all of you at home

16
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,239
a very happy Father's Day, and of course thanks for

17
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,519
spending your time with us on the Good Trouble Show. Now,

18
00:01:13,799 --> 00:01:16,920
the issue of UAPs, what we used to call UFOs,

19
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,959
keeps drawing more public attention from the public and also

20
00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:25,480
from the halls of Congress, and that growing interest as well.

21
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,879
You know, it's caused a bit of a panic over

22
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,799
at the Pentagon. And when that happens, well, the machine

23
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,799
pushes back. Whether you call it the deep state or

24
00:01:35,159 --> 00:01:39,280
the swamp whatever, it obviously pushes back. So today we

25
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,439
are going to talk about what that pushback looks like

26
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,200
and focus on a recent example, targeting the claims of

27
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,439
the late great presidential advisor Harold Momgren. But first, please

28
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,400
hit the subscribe and thumbs up buttons on YouTube, leave

29
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,599
a comment and let us know what you think about

30
00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,599
this episode. You can also find us on x at

31
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,079
Good Trouble Show and everywhere else at The Good Trouble Show.

32
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,879
We're also wherever you like to listen to your podcasts,

33
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,919
search for The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford. And

34
00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:13,479
if you're already a subscriber on whatever your favorite podcasting

35
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,240
platform is, do us a favor and leave a quick review.

36
00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:20,960
Those comments and ratings they really help bust boost our

37
00:02:21,039 --> 00:02:25,599
show and promote our podcast to folks that aren't already

38
00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:27,520
following it. And of course, if you would like to

39
00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:30,800
chip in and keep the lights on. Consider becoming a

40
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,560
Patreon member of The Good Trouble Show. Just head over

41
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,639
to www dot patreon dot com forward slash the Good

42
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,560
Trouble Show. For the price of a coffee, you can

43
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,879
help keep us on the air and superchats are always

44
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,919
open and are another great way to support the show

45
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,639
and help us keep bringing you incredible guests like we

46
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,680
have today. I also want to thank our segment producer

47
00:02:55,719 --> 00:02:58,960
Ali Travis. I can't tell you since she has joined

48
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,520
the show how much of a relief and and just

49
00:03:03,759 --> 00:03:07,319
order she has brought to what really before then was

50
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,560
truly a one man operation. I also want to take

51
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,960
this chance to think our Good Trouble mods who are

52
00:03:15,039 --> 00:03:18,680
in the in the chat right now. These folks, they

53
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,800
completely volunteer their time and here we are on a

54
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,919
Father's Day and they are supporting the show by keeping

55
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,000
the chat room all nice and clean, keeping the riff

56
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,759
wrath out. Anyway, we truly have just an amazing group

57
00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:36,719
here at The Good Trouble Show. So thanks to everyone

58
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,400
for joining us. Happy Father's Day, and thanks for thanks

59
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,800
for everyone on our Good Trouble Mods and Ali Travis

60
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,000
for supporting us. Now before we jump in today's interview.

61
00:03:49,199 --> 00:03:52,639
Jump into today's interview. I want to talk about the

62
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,080
pushback machine. And again, like I said, it could be

63
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,479
the deep state swamp. However you want to characterize it,

64
00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:04,800
it is a push machine. This machine operates on a cycle,

65
00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:09,439
and it's a predictable cycle. Basically, what happens a whistleblower

66
00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:13,879
steps forward or Congress gets close too close, that is

67
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,279
to the truth, want to investigate more, et cetera. And

68
00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:20,959
then sure enough, right on Q outcomes a Pentagon press

69
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,720
release or a journalist with anonymous sources and suspiciously well

70
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,240
timed scoops to assure us that assure us all that

71
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,759
there is literally nothing to see here. And the second thing,

72
00:04:32,879 --> 00:04:36,720
probably the most important. They will do anything to discredit

73
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,199
UAP whistleblowers, go after their character, dig up a garbage

74
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,800
whatever they can, because at the end of the day,

75
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,839
if the forces at b want to throw cold water

76
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,480
and encourage Congress to stop looking into this and also

77
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,480
to message publicly that members of Congress are wasting their

78
00:04:58,519 --> 00:05:02,079
time on this whole u AP business, the way the

79
00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:07,720
Pentagon does that without fail is to discredit the whistleblowers.

80
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,480
Because obviously, if you discredit Louel Asondo, David Grusher or whoever.

81
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,519
Then members of Congress will say to themselves, well, maybe

82
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,519
there is nothing to it these whistleblowers from all this

83
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,199
stuff we're reading doesn't seem to amount to much. Now,

84
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,800
I think members of Congress truly know better. Now these

85
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,759
scoops that I just referenced, they they typically use catchphrases,

86
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:37,279
phrases that are seemingly copied between debunking articles and posts

87
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,319
on X from the professional debunkers such as mcwest, Stephens,

88
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,839
Green Street and others. You know, they use phrases such

89
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:52,199
as space aliens or UFO enthusiasts. It's it's not journalism really.

90
00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:56,319
What it is is it's coordinated damage control with a

91
00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,279
press badge, which brings us to the most recent operation

92
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,160
in narrative suppression, the now infamous Wall Street Journal article

93
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,800
by Joel Scheckman and Aaruna this wanathup. Now, this piece

94
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,240
was so perfectly timed it practically arrived gift wrapped for

95
00:06:15,439 --> 00:06:18,040
the Pentagon. I mean it truly was, with a bow

96
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,560
and everything on it. So the question is I want

97
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,759
all of you to consider at home, is why, now,

98
00:06:24,879 --> 00:06:29,199
why all of a sudden this press had you had

99
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,560
the current director of Arrow on ABC News. You you

100
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,040
had these articles by Dean Johnson, which we're going to

101
00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:39,879
get into in a little bit. You had the Wall

102
00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:44,199
Street Journal article. The question is why, now, why this

103
00:06:44,399 --> 00:06:50,199
barrage of we'll just say negative articles throwing throwing water

104
00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:53,959
on the whole UAP issue. The reason of my view

105
00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:59,160
is because just as this article hit the press, these

106
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,480
articles hit the press, Congress was ramping up pressure for

107
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,600
more UAP hearings, and more importantly, Senators Mike Rounds and

108
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,879
Chuck Schumer will reintroduce the UAP Disclosure Act, that legislation,

109
00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:16,720
the UAPDA, I think is version three or whatever. Now

110
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,360
that legislation, which is hugely important if you want to

111
00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:26,160
know anything about the UAP issue, if you want to

112
00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:29,800
bring this out into the sunlight and finally settle it

113
00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:34,439
for everybody, the debunkers, everybody, settle it, settle the issue

114
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,240
of what are UAP? Are they real? This national security issue?

115
00:07:38,519 --> 00:07:43,040
Pass this legislation. That's exactly what this legislation is meant

116
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,079
to do. And I will say when professional debunkers such

117
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,680
as Mick West, Stephen green Street, and Susan Gerbick of

118
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,160
this group of fanatic Wikipedia editors. When they do not

119
00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:00,600
support this legislation, when they give you some kind of

120
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,680
bullshit as far as why they're not why they're not

121
00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:09,120
supporting it, at tells you right there that these folks

122
00:08:09,319 --> 00:08:13,279
Mick West, Susan Gerbick, Stephen green Street, and these others,

123
00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:17,560
they are not operating above board. They have a hidden agenda.

124
00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:22,680
That is my very strong opinion. This legislation is a

125
00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:28,279
direct threat to the decades long secrecy surrounding UAP crash retrievals,

126
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,360
reverse engineering programs, and the abuse of the classification system

127
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,519
to shield legal activity from the public view. They just

128
00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:40,519
they don't want this stuff out. So the timing of

129
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,919
this Wall Street Journal hit piece wasn't just suspicious, it

130
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:51,480
was strategic. The article casually reframes bombshell allegations such as

131
00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:57,759
illegal psyops, forged documents, and even electro magnetic warfare targeting

132
00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:03,480
US military personnel and new clear ICBM silos as misunderstandings,

133
00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:08,919
overblown rituals, or the fallout of Cold War paranoia, what

134
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:14,759
whistleblowers described as psychological abuse and national security breaches. The

135
00:09:14,879 --> 00:09:19,240
journal the Wall Street Journal presents really just presents it

136
00:09:19,279 --> 00:09:24,480
as little more than sort of bizarre fraternity hazing that

137
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,120
I don't know, got out of canned, got out of control,

138
00:09:27,879 --> 00:09:32,720
No need for investigation, just confused memories and classified antics.

139
00:09:32,799 --> 00:09:36,440
Nothing to see here, folks, nothing to see and get

140
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,919
this when Robert Sallas, Bob Sallas, a retired Air Force captain,

141
00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:47,720
once entrusted with our nation's nuclear weapons and interviewed for

142
00:09:47,879 --> 00:09:51,840
the very same Wall Street Journal article by Joel S.

143
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:56,039
Sheckman and what's her name? Marona Viswanatha? When when Robert

144
00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:02,279
Sallis submits a rebuttal to the Wall Street Journal basically

145
00:10:02,399 --> 00:10:06,320
countering exactly everything that they were saying in the article,

146
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,960
countering the things that Bob Sallas told the journalists, and

147
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,399
then they didn't put it in. Guess what the Wall

148
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,639
Street Journal did. They refused to publish it. Why because

149
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,600
letting the actual victim speak might have disrupted the cozy,

150
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:30,279
carefully constructive, constructed narrative from the Wall Street Journal. Stop

151
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,679
and think about that. Former Captain Robert Sallas, United States

152
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,600
Air Force veteran and former nuclear launch control officer, tells

153
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,759
Joel S. Sheckman, one of the journalists that wrote this

154
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,039
garbage in the Wall Street Journal. Hey, these are the

155
00:10:47,159 --> 00:10:53,440
reasons that your article got this portion wrong, and you

156
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,399
can go to Bob Sallas's and I'm sorry not Wikipedia

157
00:10:56,519 --> 00:11:01,159
Twitter page. He lays it out exactly in step by

158
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,799
step format why this was wrong. And I also want

159
00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:09,279
to point out too, Joel Sheckman, this journalist, if you

160
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:14,000
want to call that, he basically took verb batim Bob

161
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:19,279
Sallas's excuse me the former director of ERO, Shan Kirkpatrick's

162
00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:28,919
ridiculous explanation about Bob Sallas's incident. Doctor Sean Kirkpatrick's explanation

163
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,679
is so asinine it makes you wonder how this guy

164
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,919
got a job in government. I mean is it is

165
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,000
beyond the pale of how ridiculous it is. And you know,

166
00:11:43,159 --> 00:11:46,399
you want to know what else is ridiculous The fact

167
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:53,080
that one of America's premier legacy media outlets, the Wall

168
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,440
Street Journal, and this hack of the journalist, Joel Sheckman,

169
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,720
bought it all at face value, bought this explanation from

170
00:12:03,039 --> 00:12:06,480
the former director of ARO, doctor Sean Kirkpatrick. His just

171
00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:12,440
clown show of an explanation about what Robert Sallas experienced

172
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,759
when UAPs knocked out ten of his nuclear tipped intercontinental

173
00:12:16,799 --> 00:12:21,399
ballistic missiles. Did this journalist Joel Scheckman go and do

174
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,159
any research. Sure doesn't look like it. It literally looks

175
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,960
like he took exactly what the Pentagon wanted to be

176
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,679
wanted put out in public in the way of this

177
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,519
Wall Street Journal article, and the Wall Street Journal editors

178
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:45,480
wouldn't give Bob Sallas's very calm, very logically laid out

179
00:12:45,919 --> 00:12:50,600
explanation the time of day. The Wall Street editors Wall

180
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,639
Street Journal editors would not give Bob Sallas's rebuttal the

181
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,759
time of day, not even as an op ed. I mean,

182
00:12:58,799 --> 00:13:04,600
that is how This is what a just journalistic mouthfeasance

183
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,759
by Joel Scheckman and Aruna Viswanathan, the editors, It is

184
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:16,960
just insane. I this is exactly why the American public

185
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,480
does not trust the legacy media, because all they are

186
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:27,080
doing is towing the water for the government. You literally

187
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,120
cannot trust a thing coming out of him. And it

188
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,840
doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican or pink

189
00:13:32,919 --> 00:13:36,600
or whatever, it doesn't matter. The legacy media, such as

190
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,200
the Wall Street Journal, is shoveling horseshit. That's really all

191
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,240
it is. And at the end of the day, they

192
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,000
want you to question the reliability of the whistleblower in

193
00:13:47,039 --> 00:13:50,399
that article, in this case, in this case retired US

194
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,320
Air Force Captain Bob Sallas. Now there's more. Let's talk

195
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,639
about authorship of this article from the Wall Street Journal.

196
00:13:59,159 --> 00:14:02,000
As I mentioned, the other reporter, a run of vis Wanatha.

197
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,240
She wrote this with Joel Sheckman. And guess what it

198
00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:12,039
appears to be the sister of vis Wanatha, Vina Visjanatha.

199
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,120
Her sister is Vina Viswanatha. And get this. She is

200
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,759
the director of Global Disputes and Litigation at Northrop Grumman.

201
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:27,679
That's right, Northrop Grumman, the same defense contractor named by

202
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,840
multiple sources as a central player in the UAP crash

203
00:14:31,879 --> 00:14:38,639
recovery and reverse engineering efforts. The same contractor allegedly involved

204
00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:50,399
in retaliating against whistleblowers. This defense contractor allegedly neck neck deep.

205
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,600
I can't talk today. I blame it on Father's Day,

206
00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:57,720
neck deep in illegal UAP programs. A major legacy outlet

207
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,399
publishes a hit piece aimed at discrediting the exact whistleblowers

208
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:06,200
who have accused Northrop Grumman, and one of the authors

209
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,639
of that piece appears to be directly connected by blood

210
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,360
to the contractor's top legal leadership and the top it off.

211
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:17,960
They refused to publish the rebuttal from the Air Force

212
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,480
veteran who was the central figure in the story itself.

213
00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:26,440
Totally above board, right, I don't know about that. This

214
00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:29,799
is a journalism. This is what I said earlier. It's

215
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:36,200
narrative laundering. It's a coordinated effort to protect institutional power,

216
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,039
silence credible voices, and bury the real story just deep

217
00:15:42,159 --> 00:15:46,960
enough that no one in Washington ever must answer for it.

218
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,120
It's insane. Now that takes us to today's subject, the

219
00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:57,279
bombshell interview with Harold Mongren by Jesse Michaels of American Alchemy.

220
00:15:57,399 --> 00:15:59,960
I have to say I am one of the big

221
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,919
fans of the work that Jesse Michaels is doing. The

222
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,320
first time I ever saw his work was the interview

223
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,440
with whistleblower David Grush. And I tell you what, if

224
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,840
you guys are not subscribed to American Alchemy, you gotta

225
00:16:13,879 --> 00:16:17,840
do it. I think he is absolutely one of the

226
00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:21,519
best producers of content related to the UAP issue. And

227
00:16:21,559 --> 00:16:24,679
he's also a super cool guy, very very cool guy. Now,

228
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:26,679
as I mentioned at the top of the show retired

229
00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:30,759
to DC, lobbyist Dean Johnson wrote three articles attacking not

230
00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:36,600
only the claims, but Mongren's credibility itself. So who exactly

231
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,559
is Dean Johnson, Douglas Dean Johnson. Well, here's an article

232
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,840
in Mother Jones describing him as quote chief lobbyist for

233
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,240
the National Right to Life Committee, the nation's pre eminent

234
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,440
anti abortion group. It stated in there that he's been

235
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,480
there since nineteen eighty one and was most recently the

236
00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,320
unseen force behind the House GOP's push to orchestra Great

237
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:06,680
the most audacious legislative assault on abortion rights in recent memory. Obviously,

238
00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:09,640
Dean Johnson he excelled in that job. And I also

239
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,039
want to point out to that the article from Mother

240
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,720
Jones that was from a while back. I couldn't actually

241
00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:20,119
find the date, but anyway, that's apparently who Dean Johnson

242
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,039
is now. As I mentioned earlier, Dean not only went

243
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,440
after Harold Momgren's claims, which you know, to be fair,

244
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,480
anybody you know, that would be something I would expect, Okay,

245
00:17:31,519 --> 00:17:34,880
bring up certain things in an article or a story

246
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,799
or a podcast. And this is the evidence as to

247
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,480
why that may not be true. Like, just keep it,

248
00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:44,759
you know, keep it to the facts man sort of thing.

249
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,599
But what what Dean Johnson did, in my view, was

250
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:52,440
he attacked the character and credibility of the late great

251
00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:56,920
Harold Momgrim himself. And that I did not think is cool.

252
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:01,440
So again rewinding the Pentagon play, go after the credibility

253
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,240
of the whistleblower, Go after the messenger. Now I want

254
00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:11,240
to read to you some of the quotes from Dean's

255
00:18:11,279 --> 00:18:16,880
three stories here, you know, and again this this is him.

256
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,680
He's not talking about just the facts. He's just he's

257
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,559
actually going after the guy. So some of the quotes

258
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,440
quote on small space paving stones of truth, the late

259
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:32,200
Harold B. Mongren built lofty towers of grandiose fantasy against

260
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,400
suggesting that he exaggerated or fabricated around a kernel of truth.

261
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,680
Another one, Some years ago, he began to make up

262
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,359
an alternative, much more exciting version of his life stories

263
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,279
in which he played a vastly more important role in

264
00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:51,960
world affairs than the mundane, respectable reality again paints here

265
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,480
he is trying to paint Mamgren as delusional or self

266
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,960
aggrandizing mom Gren. Here's another one. Mongren was generally regarded

267
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,960
it as a highly intelligent man, albeit also often perceived

268
00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:10,680
as egotistical and embrace it. Going after I don't know,

269
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,200
just it's crazy. He uses, as I mentioned earlier, something

270
00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:19,160
that we see often these uh, these sort of loaded

271
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:26,519
loaded loaded phrases. Uses the phrase fan fiction used to

272
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:31,000
describe Malgren's accounts of historical events and people quote self

273
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:36,920
glorifying fantasy stories. Uh, you know, frames his testimony is narcissistic.

274
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,039
Fiction fiction counterfeits. It would be pure folly to place

275
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,799
credence in any of extraordinary claims. You know, you've got

276
00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:50,000
Deanon here using sarcasm and mockery. Quote. Well, no, Harold

277
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,440
didn't save the world, not even once. He did once

278
00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:56,480
do his part to save a Japanese whaling industry for

279
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,680
one hundred thousand dollars a year. But I digress here. Uh,

280
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,400
he's mocking Malgram's claimth historic importance undercut by a jab

281
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,519
about his lobbying work. Mom Groam was a lobbyist as well.

282
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,160
Here's another one. Before long, mom Grin apparently read the

283
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,160
room and gave the UFO Twitter audience what it craved.

284
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:21,240
I mean, come on, you know this is just just

285
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,559
such a such an insane, such an insane. Here thing here,

286
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,400
here's another one before long, mom grin apparently, Oh sorry,

287
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,759
I gave that one. I already did that one. Uh,

288
00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:39,200
let's see posthumous undermining mom Graham hijacked the personas of

289
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,599
real people to serve as characters in his self glorifying

290
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,799
fantasy stories only long after they were dead, when they

291
00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:57,200
can't defend themselves against mom Gren's counterfeits. Okay, yeah, you

292
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,319
know this, This is I don't know, uh, you know,

293
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,960
I it's again. It's one thing to like go over

294
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,960
go against facts or refute refute facts from another story,

295
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,319
but you know this is really what he's doing is

296
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,119
his character assassination of my opinion, you know. And and

297
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,279
in my experience, there is a pattern of this in

298
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:25,359
a lot of Dean Johnson's posts. I've I've seen him

299
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,640
go after Christopher Sharp and in journalist Christopher Sharp at

300
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,480
the Liberation Times. I remember once I was sitting on

301
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:36,440
X and I get this d M from Dean, uh,

302
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,279
basically saying can you believe Chris Sharp published this? I

303
00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:44,559
don't even remember the exact contents of it, but it

304
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,640
was clear Dean was messaging people because I hadn't heard

305
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,240
from him messaging people out of the blue about Chris

306
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,720
Sharp and my I replied to to Dean, I said,

307
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,440
Chris Sharp is a friend of mine. Why why are

308
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,279
you messaging me this? Why are you direct messaging me this?

309
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,799
And he had some excuse, Well, I thought you would

310
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:06,480
want to know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you

311
00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:10,799
go and you read this guy's posts, and it's just

312
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:14,519
there's a lot of I don't know. You just read

313
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:18,720
it for yourself and come come to your own conclusion,

314
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:23,000
I would say. So it really boils down to this.

315
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,559
Dean is basically saying the late Harold Momgren was a liar.

316
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:31,960
That's really what it is. Now, what does the evidence

317
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,880
say now? In nineteen eighty four a Congressional hearing by

318
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,839
this Subcommittee on International Trade, Momgren was called in as

319
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,960
an expert witness on the AT and T. Bell Labs breakup,

320
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,480
and actually mister Mongrem was arguing against it, but he

321
00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:52,039
was called into this by both the Senate and by

322
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,759
Judge Green. I also want to note that AT and T.

323
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,960
Bell Labs at the time was the most important national

324
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,319
lab at the time, and obviously Mongren was expert in

325
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,640
most of our advanced technologies, so here's a question. Would

326
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:15,599
the United States Senate and a federal judge call in

327
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,680
a witness who lied about his early career, who would

328
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:25,759
was prone to exaggeration? Is that who they would? They

329
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:29,559
wouldn't do the due diligence. Of course, of course they

330
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:32,519
did their due diligence. They knew that Harold Momnggren was

331
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:37,480
none of those things. That is why he testified. It's

332
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,440
you know, it's just insane. So you know, we have

333
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,319
to be clear here. Harold Momgren, he wasn't some kind

334
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,880
of outsiders spinning Cold War fan fiction or making us

335
00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:53,160
making up stuff about UAPs. He operated at the core

336
00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:56,400
of US nuclear policy during one of the most dangerous

337
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,680
periods in human history. You know, here's a here's another thing,

338
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,039
or another example of Harold Mamgren's being involved in all

339
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:09,759
of this. This is ida's Strategy of Controlled Response memo

340
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,720
that reflect the exact strategic doctrine that Mamgren work with him,

341
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:20,160
classified materials discussed only among top advisors, military planners, and

342
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,960
nuclear analysts. Now I had to look up what the

343
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,240
idea is. That is the Institute for Defense Analysis. It's

344
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,920
a federally funded research and development think tank. It quotes

345
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,039
a paper by Harold Mamgren called protracted nuclear War. Now,

346
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,000
even though it calls that article, we have had no

347
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,039
luck actually locating a copy of that. But here he is.

348
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,440
He's he's being cited as someone who wrote an article,

349
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,640
wrote a paper on nuclear war, protracted nuclear war. This

350
00:24:56,759 --> 00:24:59,720
isn't like some like Mamgren was out there just writing

351
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:03,599
an eye. This sounded like a serious, serious piece, so

352
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,720
much so that this think tank wanted to know what

353
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:16,920
Harold Momgrun thought about nuclear policy. Yeah, so this, this

354
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:21,079
note perfectly matches the strategy Mongran outlined as the arguments

355
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,519
used to hold the Joint chiefs back from using nukes

356
00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:28,240
in a first strike, something that Dean Johnson also says

357
00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:32,880
is just not possible. His reference to these doctrines isn't

358
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,440
a lucky yes, Mongrun. That is, it's the mark of

359
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,640
someone who was actually in the room when decisions about

360
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,319
nuclear war were being made. He then wrote about the

361
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,799
same nuclear matters in the Military Review and orbis I

362
00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,000
don't know, maybe they too missed the fact that he

363
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,680
was a lying con man. That's what Dean Johnson wants

364
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,480
you to believe. I mean, give me a break, now,

365
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,759
what's more, he went on to be cited by the

366
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:04,440
Supreme Court of the United States, which is very rare

367
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,079
for an economist in this case, very very rare. Indeed.

368
00:26:09,759 --> 00:26:12,440
So here's here's something else. This is here he is

369
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:19,680
in the Review of Political Economy. This guy clearly isn't

370
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:25,079
faking his career. This guy. There is no way on

371
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:31,920
earth that if somebody is prone to exaggeration, they likely

372
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,039
have done it most of their adult life. So you

373
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,799
can't tell me for a minute that Harold Mamgren built

374
00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:47,200
this insanely unbelievable career advising US presidents and he was

375
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,680
somebody just just making it up. That's it is so

376
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,000
ludicrous Dean Johnson's logic. It makes me personally question what

377
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,039
Dean Johnson's motives are. It truly does. Now here's another one.

378
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,839
Here he is in Wiki Leagues. In this wiki leak stump,

379
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,279
it turns out that Mongrem and Kissinger made multiple trips

380
00:27:10,319 --> 00:27:15,000
together to Venezuela right after they nationalized the oil industry.

381
00:27:16,519 --> 00:27:20,799
I want to point out that Momngren never publicly spoke

382
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:25,559
about this with anyone, and I mean anyone. It's clear

383
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,799
Mongren had an exceptional mind and was deeply involved in

384
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,240
nuclear matters. JFK was up against both the CIA and

385
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,599
the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He needed his own people

386
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:40,119
who were not under the thumb of the Pentagon or

387
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:46,079
the agency the CIA. It's well documented that he interviewed

388
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,319
multiple nuclear bomber pilots to assess the command and control

389
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:58,359
system on JFK's behalf Again, somebody that in Dean Johnson

390
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:02,000
is claiming, wouldn't have a Q clearance, which would be

391
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:08,039
which would be required to discuss or or have knowledge

392
00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:13,359
on things like nuclear command and control, nuclear policy, the

393
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:19,319
nuclear war plan. Dean Johnson says that's just not possible. Now.

394
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:23,079
Harold mom Gran and Daniel Ellsberg were close friends from

395
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:27,480
their time working under nuclear strategist Tim Schelling. For anyone

396
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,960
who doesn't know, Ellsberg was a top Pentagon war planner

397
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:34,400
who later leaked the Pentagon papers. But before that he

398
00:28:34,519 --> 00:28:40,119
uncovered something terrifying. The United States had no real nuclear

399
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,400
command and control system. It was sort of I don't know,

400
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,759
ad hoc or whatever. But what he found instead was

401
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,240
in the US's nuclear war plan called the sy OPER

402
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:57,400
Single Integrated Operational Plan. It was essentially a first strike

403
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,119
playbook for wiping out both the Soviet Union and China

404
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,759
in one go. So even though Russia was involved with

405
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:09,720
the Cuban missile crisis, our nuclear war plan, which when

406
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:13,759
you read it essentially looked like at first strike option

407
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,599
or not option. It was what the plan was. It

408
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,559
had China in there. At the time, the US, the

409
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,200
United States had a seventeen to one nuclear advantage over

410
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:27,960
the Soviets.

411
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: I mean.

412
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: Huge, huge dispairy. It's huge, huge disparity. And General Curtis

413
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,359
la May, who was in charge of all of this,

414
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:43,880
knew that this gap wouldn't last. So he backed PSYOP

415
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Single Integrated Operational Plan sixty two, which was the actual

416
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,480
nuclear plan, calling for simultaneous nuclear strikes across your agion.

417
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,799
The estimated death toll around a billion people. That's why

418
00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:01,839
JFK signed this thing called an SAM one sixty installing

419
00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:06,599
permission excuse me pals, or what it call permissive action links.

420
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,160
These are kind of like security locks that block somebody

421
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,839
from just arming a nuclear weapon. They have to have

422
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,599
a code. May's Lamay's bomber crews actually hated these things

423
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,880
that clipped their wings the only way that they would

424
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,279
be able to trigger one of these nuclear weapons. Or

425
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,119
arm it for detonation was having the code, and with

426
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,759
these pals on there, they couldn't just take a order

427
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,319
from Curtis. From Curtis, I'm sorry, General Curtis Lamay, they

428
00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:42,400
clipped their wings. Now today some pushed back on the

429
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,000
idea that Curtis la May in General Power serious about

430
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,240
global nuclear war. But Elsberg had the numbers, and Mongren,

431
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:54,640
Magnamara and jfk All understood the stakes. That's why they

432
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,880
tried everything to slow the Joint chiefs of Staff down

433
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:02,319
just long enough for diplomacy to work. Now. In his

434
00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:07,039
book The Doomsday Machine, Elsberg spelled it out. Si OP

435
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,759
sixty two called for forty megatons on Moscow alone. That's

436
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:18,200
four thousand times the explosion explosive yield of the Hiroshima

437
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,039
atomic warhead, more than every conventional bomb dropped in World

438
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:26,519
War II combined. He recalled a briefing where someone nervously

439
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:29,720
asked about the China thing, quote, what if this isn't

440
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,240
China's war? What if it's just the Soviets? Can we

441
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,839
change the plan? General Power turned and said, well, yeah

442
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,440
we can, but I hope nobody thinks of it, because

443
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,960
it would really screw up the plan. I mean, you

444
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:47,000
got to You just can't make this stuff up. So

445
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:51,119
let that sink in. They were planning to nuke China

446
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,799
by default because editing the plan well was just inconvenient.

447
00:31:57,359 --> 00:32:01,839
That wasn't a glitch in the system. That the system.

448
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,200
So who do you believe A K. Street Washington, a lobbyist,

449
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:10,839
likely a gun for hire. Or Harold Mamgren, who graduated

450
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,920
second in his class at Yale University, served Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon,

451
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,119
and Ford, and the Senate Finance Committee, and who also

452
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,519
conducted many of America's most important trade deals. And he

453
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,799
was cited by the Supreme Court. Who do you trust?

454
00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:30,799
You tell me now? Finally I touched on this a

455
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:34,279
little bit earlier. Dean Johnson claims that there is no

456
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,440
way Harold Momgren would have had a Q clearance. Q

457
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,480
clearance being being the clearance that is issued by the

458
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:46,200
Department of Energy, which of course is in charge of

459
00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:52,680
US nuclear stockpile, nuclear engineering, nuclear research. Q clearance is

460
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,920
I guess would sort of like be the equivalent of

461
00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:01,720
the Pentagon's Top Secret SCI Clearance TSSCI. Q clearance is

462
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,039
something that the Department of Energy would issue to you

463
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:10,640
in order for you to view classified nuclear data what's

464
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,519
called restricted data and previously rest restricted data. So if

465
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:20,039
you want to advise the president on nuclear policy or

466
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,640
speak to anyone in the Pentagon about your nuclear war plan,

467
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,279
that individual would have to have a Q clearance. I mean,

468
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,119
just plain and simple. So Dean Johnson claims that there's

469
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,440
no way Harold would have had this Q clearance due

470
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,079
to the fact that it wasn't listed on this form

471
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,079
in Dean Johnson's article called SF eighty six, this form

472
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:48,200
that was submitted by Momgren back in the day. Now,

473
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:52,960
we reached out to a former FBI agent, and I

474
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,559
would add that this former FBI agent actually dealt with

475
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:03,920
Q clearances, adjudicating Q clearances amongst other things this agent led,

476
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,920
we'll just say, some of the most famous investigations that

477
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,360
the general public would be aware of. This individual headed it.

478
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:16,559
This isn't just some you know, sort of a low

479
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,280
level person that the FBI. This was someone that was

480
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,320
very high up and very well accomplished. So we reached

481
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:28,320
out to this former agent and this agent sent me

482
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,039
this reply. Excuse me. The s F eighty six, as

483
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:36,280
completed by the applicant is not the definitive authority on

484
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,400
someone's security clearance status. It is simply a form leveraged

485
00:34:41,559 --> 00:34:45,400
to begin the background investigation processes for a clearance and

486
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,079
is completely self completed. This is even more true going

487
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:54,639
back to the time period in question. The argument made

488
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,960
by Dean Johnson holds no merit to whether or not

489
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:02,440
mom Gren or any person in fact held a specific

490
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,440
clearance at the time of completion by the applicant. Now,

491
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:10,519
I actually tweeted this in a in a X chain

492
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,960
with Dean Johnson, and and he made some kind of

493
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,119
comment that, uh, you know that maybe my my FBI

494
00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:23,440
person I was just making it up again attacked a messenger.

495
00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:27,039
That's uh, that's that's that seems to be what is

496
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:31,599
in style, uh with these with these folks today, you know.

497
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:34,920
But but again, you know, here is here is a

498
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,440
FBI agent, former FBI agent saying that Dean Johnson's logic

499
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:43,719
with the Q clearance is just total hogwash. As a

500
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,719
matter of fact, when I spoke to this person on

501
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,599
the phone and told them what what Dean Johnson had

502
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:53,960
stated in this article, this individual just laughed. He just

503
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,000
said it's he just said it was a bunch of baloney,

504
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:01,199
and then later on provided me with this this statement.

505
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,039
So you know, all I can say is that I

506
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:08,159
think that you're going to find Dean Johnson's case very

507
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,519
very weak, uh, to say the least. But before we

508
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:14,000
jump into the interview, in just a moment, I want

509
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,800
you everyone at home to go to the YouTube description

510
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,840
for this episode and you will find a link to

511
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:26,159
the article debunking Dean Johnson's page and this this interview,

512
00:36:26,199 --> 00:36:29,719
which is about an hour long. It is extensive, it

513
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,760
is detailed, but it's a little dry because it is

514
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,280
all just factual. But I think if if at home,

515
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:39,639
you go to the link that I put in there,

516
00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:43,800
uh to Jeff Kroukshenks LinkedIn, it's where he has this article,

517
00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:48,960
this forty page debunk of Dean Johnson. It's it's easier

518
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,679
and more entertaining to follow because he has a lot

519
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:54,920
of illustrations and photos, et cetera that we didn't have

520
00:36:55,199 --> 00:37:01,159
time to to include here. So yeah, so go to

521
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:04,360
the description, look at it, click the link, look at

522
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,000
it and follow along. So anyway, there you go. So

523
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:14,280
today's guest is Jeff Krukshank, an Australian energy technologist and

524
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,760
critical infrastructure security specialist. That's a mouthful, especially on Father's

525
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,039
Day with too much coffee. With a background and intelligence analysis,

526
00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:28,119
he's known for investigating national security anomalies, everything from Cold

527
00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:32,400
War nuclear tests, two modern UAP encounters, and turning complex

528
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,760
technical data into clear, eye opening insights. Here he's here

529
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,440
with forty pages of research. All of you at home

530
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,079
are going to be following this forty pages of research

531
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:47,280
challenging a major narrative about UFOs and the US government.

532
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:53,480
Our interview with Jeff Krukshank. Enjoy, please welcome to the show.

533
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,840
Jeff Kroukshank. Jeff, how are you, sir?

534
00:37:57,039 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Matt. It's great to be on your show.

535
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,719
I'm a longtime fan.

536
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:02,079
Speaker 4: Of your show.

537
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 3: And yeah, hopefully we'll have some fun today.

538
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,159
Speaker 1: I think so. And I understand you're it's a little

539
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:09,599
bit late where you're at right.

540
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, midnight here in down in Australia. Yeah, okay,

541
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:15,840
wa awake.

542
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: Well, we very much appreciate you coming on the show.

543
00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:24,119
We appreciate the generosity of your of your time and uh,

544
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:28,920
you know, before we dive into your research and what

545
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,519
I think is really a very successful takedown of Dean

546
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:39,679
Dean Johnson's attack piece on former presidential advisor Harold Momgren.

547
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,920
Tell us a bit about yourself and your professional background, well,

548
00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:49,760
basically in power generation for the last thirty five years

549
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,000
around Australia.

550
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 3: I ay says, in the maritime shipping industry. U transitioned

551
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:05,880
into intelligence back in two thousand and nine. I had

552
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:11,320
a clearance before then just doing maintenance for defense up

553
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,119
in Australia. In Northern Australia is the tip of the

554
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:19,000
spear for the Australian Defense Force. And then I got

555
00:39:19,039 --> 00:39:24,119
into intelligence mainly because of my power generation background and

556
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:31,840
knowledge of programmable logic controllers PLCs, and moved to Canberra

557
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:38,760
Headquarters down in Canberra in twenty ten and stayed down

558
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,360
there for two years before returning to Darwin to build

559
00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:49,159
and design skiffs securely compartmented information facilities. That was a

560
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,199
job that I had my own business was to design,

561
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,639
build and commission and certify its skiffs to make sure

562
00:39:57,679 --> 00:40:01,920
they were compliant with the Australian government regulations. And I

563
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:02,800
actually did one.

564
00:40:02,679 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 4: For the US Marines.

565
00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: I got a marine rotation falls here in Darwen, built

566
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,880
one of their armories for them.

567
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So you have in addition to your intelligence background,

568
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:20,039
you clearly have a technical slash engineering background as well.

569
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, mostly information technology data.

570
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 4: That sort of thing gotcha.

571
00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: So how did you become interested in the topic of UFOs.

572
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,199
Speaker 3: When I was about eight, my father built me a

573
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,760
fairly large reflecting telescope, so it was an amateur astronomer

574
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,519
all my life and back. The size of the universe

575
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,440
impressed on an eight year old's mind.

576
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 4: It's a no brainer that there's.

577
00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:55,199
Speaker 3: Other life in other star systems. Whether they have the

578
00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:00,440
capability of visiting the Earth is a question, a debate.

579
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,320
That is, there isn't a doubt that there is other

580
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,440
life at the universe, and that's not a Goldilocks thing.

581
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:15,239
There's chemo synthesis, photosynthesis. Life is not dependent on closeness

582
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:22,360
to a star to develop. They can produce food through chemosynthesis. Yeah,

583
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,639
so that's basically where my interest came from.

584
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. So I have to say when I was

585
00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:30,719
eight years old, as opposed to my dad building me

586
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,920
a telescope, he actually built me a puppet theater because

587
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,320
I wanted to do like puppet shows. So yeah, I

588
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,000
didn't get into astronomy but I think probably at a

589
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:43,519
pretty pretty early age, I was interested in this whole

590
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,400
sort of show business thing. And as I say, I'm

591
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,960
not a researcher or anything like that. I'm not like

592
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,119
a technical guy. I'm really just a talk show host.

593
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,119
But I think it's incredibly fascinating that from a very

594
00:41:55,159 --> 00:42:01,199
early age and very cool that your your father encouraged

595
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,039
your your interest in science and and engineering and whatnot.

596
00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:08,400
And yeah, that's that's a that's a pretty pretty cool story.

597
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,880
So let's get to the topic at hand. At the

598
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,519
beginning of the show, we gave the audience a background

599
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,679
on who Harold mom Gren was, of course he passed

600
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,599
away recently, and and his his claims in terms of

601
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,320
the UEP issue, And then of course we we explained

602
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,760
to the audience very briefly that Dean Johnson came out

603
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,880
with this really in my view and an attack article.

604
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:36,079
It was really kind of, in my view, sort of

605
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,800
you know, littered with really kind of personal, disparaging, disparaging

606
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,039
attacks on Harold Momgren's uh story and and and whatnot.

607
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,280
Rather than it being just kind of fact based this

608
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,599
is it uh Just to me, it seemed personal, which

609
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:57,599
I found found upsetting, But judging on some of the

610
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:00,800
previous posts I've seen of Dean going after other people,

611
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,480
really really wasn't surprised surprised. So you're taking issue with

612
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:10,079
Dean's article which is titled Bluegill Triple Prime did a

613
00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:13,639
nuclear test knock down a human non human craft in

614
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,559
nineteen sixty two, which he published last month. Now, before

615
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:21,159
we get into the nuts and bolts of your Rebuttal,

616
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,880
I understand you have found something that literally obliterates one

617
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:31,360
of Dean's main points of attack, where he essentially said

618
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,039
there's no way Harold Momgrim could have had a Q clearance.

619
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:36,719
Why don't you tell us what you found.

620
00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:42,519
Speaker 3: That's correct, Matt, because back in the fifties and sixties,

621
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,880
Q clearances were quite common. The Marines that had to

622
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,719
transport the devices from San fran Francisco to the Pacific

623
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:57,119
Proving Ground all had Q clearances. People like Watergate Burgilar,

624
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,760
James McCord had a Q clearance. Now, as mccaud was

625
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,320
supposedly an audio security engineer, but on the twenty seventh

626
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,159
of July nineteen sixty two, he was issued with a

627
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,880
Q clearance. And what's interesting there is it says subjects

628
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,480
maybe orally advised of this clearance, but in no case

629
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,360
should he be notified in writing. So you know, he

630
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,960
could not prove later on that he had a Q clearance.

631
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,760
This is a this is to the Assistant Director of

632
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,280
Scientific Intelligence of the CIA from the Atomic Energy Commission,

633
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,320
So he would have no way of proving he had

634
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,960
a Q clearance. And we don't really know why he

635
00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:48,000
did have one. So you know, Harold was working for

636
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:55,440
Rand Corporation. Now Rand Corporation was a device and Curtis Lamay,

637
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:59,000
General Curtis Lamay, he was one of the forefathers of

638
00:44:59,679 --> 00:45:05,320
the And Corporation because they developed that corporation to get

639
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:11,239
away from government medaling and oversight. And they were the

640
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,480
ones that were heavily involved in a lot of reverse

641
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:22,239
engineering of foreign craft. And you know, they were the

642
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,920
ones that discovered the X ray kill mechanism. That will

643
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,000
go into later, but that was that formed the basis

644
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,920
of the anti intercontinental ballistic missile program that the United

645
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,639
States and the Soviet Union were heavily involved in in

646
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:42,239
the nineteen sixties. Harold was part of that group. In

647
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,840
nineteen sixty four, he wrote an article about removing tactical

648
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,280
nuclear weapons from Turkey. Now, Harold was in Turkey in

649
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:57,119
nineteen fifty eight the Jupiter missiles were getting installed, and

650
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,920
that was the catalyst for the Cuban Missile crisis because

651
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:08,480
they were within range of Moscow, Saint Petersburg, and Stalingrad

652
00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:13,000
or Leningrad at the time, And that's what created the

653
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:16,800
tension in the Cuban missile crisis when Kristchev decided that

654
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,599
he'd put missiles close to the US as well. So

655
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:25,159
Harold was in the periphery of nuclear weapons even at

656
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:27,440
a young age. You know, he was a whiz kid

657
00:46:28,639 --> 00:46:31,400
Goddess Lamay detested the whiz kids, he says. So when

658
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:36,199
he's memoirs called Mission with Lea May, he actually says

659
00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:40,639
that he detested the liberal whiz kids. So Harold was

660
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:42,400
firmly in his target.

661
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that makes sense. So if Harold Mamgren is

662
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,599
dealing at all with nuclear policy or advising the administration

663
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,760
on nuclear policy, I mean, it's it's it's totally a

664
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,960
no brainer. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use

665
00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:03,360
the phrase with our discussion here, doesn't take a rocket

666
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,800
science to figure out Hero Momgren is going to have

667
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,920
a or would have had a Q clearance, and as

668
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,320
you pointed out this, you know what you found with this,

669
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:16,000
with this, with you know what you found it. I

670
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,280
mean that clearly demonstrates people have Q clearances, and back

671
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,039
then it just it was a documented And I would

672
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:27,239
also think, and I have no idea if this is true.

673
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,840
Just something that came to mind is if if he

674
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:37,440
is making, if he is advising regarding nuclear policy, it

675
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:42,199
would make sense just strictly from a counter intelligence perspective,

676
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:46,440
to not publish that. So if if the Russians knew,

677
00:47:46,679 --> 00:47:49,400
or if the Russians knew that, hey, this is one

678
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,079
of the key nuclear policy advisors, he's going to become

679
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:57,519
more of a target in terms of Russia's intelligence operations.

680
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:03,360
So I can also see from a a counterintelligence security

681
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:08,639
perspective that this would not be something they would that

682
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,000
they would advertise.

683
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:16,119
Speaker 3: And that's right because James McCord's boss was a guy

684
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:20,280
named Dave Christ and I've spoken with Ross Coultart about

685
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,719
Dave Chris. He also had a Q clearance who was

686
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:28,159
involved in Right Patterson Air Force Base MK Ultra, and

687
00:48:28,199 --> 00:48:32,079
he got arrested in Cuba in September nineteen sixty and

688
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,559
over the course of two and a half years, the

689
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:38,039
Cubans managed to torture him and extract every single piece

690
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:42,639
of information that Dave christ had in his head regarding

691
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,559
Q clearance nuclear weapons. I believe Dave Chris was involved

692
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:52,039
in a reverse engineering project as well, and you know

693
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,239
the Cubans obviously passed that on to the Soviets.

694
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,079
Speaker 1: So let's stick into your article here. I mean, this

695
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:04,000
thing is there's literally forty something pages and just goes

696
00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:08,039
into an incredible amount of detail. I would advise all

697
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:12,079
of our viewers to download this document. We'll put a

698
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:16,400
link in the YouTube description and follow along. The information

699
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:22,599
is just extensive. And I want to open this up

700
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:29,719
by quoting what you wrote in the introduction and of

701
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,239
course the name of your article here, the blue Gill

702
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:39,840
booster and fireball theory a flawed argument newt by Basic Physics,

703
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:42,159
and you say here this article is in response to

704
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,039
Dean Johnson's Blue Gill triple prime did a nuclear test

705
00:49:46,159 --> 00:49:49,280
knockdown a non human craft in nineteen sixty two, which

706
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,920
was published May twenty first, nineteen. I'm sorry, nineteen twenty five,

707
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:58,960
twenty twenty five, and I want to know why this

708
00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:04,199
quote is relevant you stayed here quote. So through Churchill's

709
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,800
excess of imagination, a layman's ignorance of artillery, and the

710
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,599
fatal power of a young enthusiasm to convince older and

711
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:20,960
slower brains, the tragedy of Galipoli was born. If I'm

712
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,960
pronouncing that right, what does that mean?

713
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:30,119
Speaker 3: So Gallipoli's a fairly famous battle, particularly for Australians. It

714
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:35,159
was our first intervention in World War One. My grandfather

715
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,719
was at Gallipoli, and that's actually how I met Ross Coulthard.

716
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,280
Back in twenty ten Kazi he found a whole heap

717
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:48,760
of old World War One photographs in an addict in France.

718
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,199
My grandfather was amongst that. So that's an interesting aside.

719
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,320
But what that quote is about is that then the

720
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,639
Franco Prussian War of eighteen seventy eighteen seventy one, the

721
00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:07,679
Germans used siege mortars, really heavy caliber shells that had

722
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:12,880
a high arching trajectory to destroy the French fortifications and

723
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,280
win that war. Winston Churchill in World War One was

724
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,119
the first sea lord, and he thought he could do

725
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:24,039
the same thing with the flat shooting naval guns. They

726
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:28,159
didn't have a high lobbing trajectory. They they were heavy caliber,

727
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:32,000
but they just flat shooting. And the Turkish defenses around

728
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:35,639
the data and Els which is the entrance to the

729
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,880
Black Sea, so it's a very strategic choke point. The

730
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,000
fortifications of the Turks withstood Churchill's naval barriers because he

731
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:51,159
was ignorant to the differences in artillery hierarchic mortar rounds

732
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,079
compared to flat shooting naval rounds. So that pretty much

733
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:58,880
destroyed Gallipoli with the troops got boxed in and never

734
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,280
made any real ground Glipol and headed withdrawal. So in

735
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,800
a similar fashion Doug's ignorance and Doug's usually pretty switched

736
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,159
on in Thoro Orbati's research, he he just lost a basic, mister,

737
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,960
basic fact with the Blue Deal triple prime trajectories. That

738
00:52:19,159 --> 00:52:21,480
just destroyed his argument straight from the get go.

739
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,519
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to I want to talk now about

740
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:26,800
what we're going to do here. We're going to go

741
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,119
through your paper and the way you have it organized,

742
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:32,440
which I think is really great, is you have it

743
00:52:32,599 --> 00:52:37,480
organized in terms of a numbered series of flaws of

744
00:52:37,519 --> 00:52:41,039
Dean Johnson's argument, where you you you know, really pretty

745
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:47,000
seemingly utterly destroy Dean's logic or lack of logic, I

746
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,960
would say, so, so let's talk about ballistic coefficients that

747
00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:55,800
you have as flaw number one. What role? First of all,

748
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,599
what is or what are what is the what? What

749
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,000
is a ballistic coefficient? I can't talk this morning. And

750
00:53:03,199 --> 00:53:07,280
what role did the ballistic coefficient play? And the different

751
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,400
behaviors of the re entry vehicle, which is, of course,

752
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:15,719
was the war head, the nuclear warhead and the booster.

753
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,840
Maybe for those that kind of don't know what would

754
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,639
be in a missile, give us a little bit of

755
00:53:20,679 --> 00:53:24,679
background about what an RV is and a booster. Sort

756
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,920
of consider that none of us know anything about how

757
00:53:28,159 --> 00:53:28,960
ICBMs work.

758
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So the thor missile that launched the Blue Gill

759
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:40,559
triple Prime nuclear tests in twenty six or twenty fifth

760
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:44,119
of bluck COVID nineteen sixty two. It was launched just

761
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:48,119
before midnight, fifteen minutes before midnight, because they were doing

762
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,360
high attitude tests and at midnight the use ionosphere is

763
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,280
at its highest points, so they wanted to test the

764
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,119
effects of the specific type of nuclear weapon on the

765
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:04,480
ion a sphere to stop incoming I see the ms

766
00:54:04,639 --> 00:54:07,679
as they were re entering the atmosphere. So this is

767
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,400
a test to try and take out other ICEE thems.

768
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,239
So this missile, it's a single stage missile, which means

769
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,519
it's only it's got one engine and it's got these

770
00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:25,559
two other smaller engines called Vernier engines that correct its altitude,

771
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:31,400
gets its angle right. So it's putting a re entry vehicle,

772
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,079
it's injecting it in a correct trajectory, and it's all

773
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:37,800
been calculated. And mind you, most of this stuff was

774
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,920
done with slide rules. So these people were incredibly smart.

775
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:49,440
Computational facilities back then we're pretty small. Your desktop calculators

776
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,519
probably got more computational power than these people had, so

777
00:54:54,599 --> 00:55:00,079
they worked out these trajectories. The Thaw missile, it would

778
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,559
run for about one hundred and seventy six seconds, velocity

779
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:04,360
get up to.

780
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 4: Nearly mac I think MAC.

781
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:17,559
Speaker 3: Nine on on the way up nine times the spizo

782
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:25,639
sound yep, yeah, So it's traveling very fast, and after

783
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,400
one hundred and seventy six seconds, the main engine cuts out.

784
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,199
The vernier engine still run for another ten seconds or

785
00:55:34,199 --> 00:55:38,280
so to get the right angle, and then the booster

786
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:41,880
separates from the re entry vehicle. So the re entry

787
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,719
vehicle is still traveling at nine thousand feet per second

788
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,039
on its way up. It's out of the atmosphere. It's

789
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:53,440
one hundred and eighty kilometers up in the sky. And

790
00:55:53,559 --> 00:55:59,199
when that booster separates, what there's retro rockets that are

791
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,679
angled in the direction of travel, and these retro rockets

792
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,960
actually push the booster back the other way in the

793
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:11,800
opposite direction of travel, but also to the side. Now,

794
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:17,920
that booster then falls away, and the re entry vehicle

795
00:56:18,119 --> 00:56:21,760
continues up on an arc and it travels up to

796
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,559
another seven hundred odd kilometers to what they call the

797
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:32,559
apergy before it starts coming back down. And it comes

798
00:56:32,599 --> 00:56:38,239
down thirty four kilometers away from where it was launched,

799
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:42,320
in a very arching trajectory and at forty eight kilometers height.

800
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,960
The re entry vehicle has a nuclear weapon inside. It's

801
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,280
a special type of nuclear weapon that generates X rays

802
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:56,519
through its design. It uses gold to produce these X rays,

803
00:56:56,559 --> 00:57:02,440
and it detonates at forty eight kilometers height. The booster,

804
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,320
because it's separated probably seven or eight minutes prior, is

805
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,239
nowhere near where the detonation is. It's twenty to thirty

806
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:17,760
kilometers away. I think the calculation was fifteen. It varies,

807
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,000
but it's at least fifteen kilometers away from the booster.

808
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:28,360
So Doug's whole premise of his argument was that there's

809
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:35,320
an object that's seen on at least two separate pieces

810
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,119
of footage of some type of object falling out of

811
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:45,519
the nuclear fireball, and the footage that is on the Internet,

812
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:49,800
there's a clear shot of something falling down out through

813
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,920
the middle of the fireball, and there's another view from

814
00:57:53,920 --> 00:58:00,960
another aircraft of a really close up in depth and

815
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,760
they use X ray film to actually film this footage,

816
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,599
and you can see the inside pressure waves bouncing and

817
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:14,000
rebounding back, and that this film rate is like in

818
00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:20,159
the microsecond rage. And there's the applied a triangle covering

819
00:58:20,239 --> 00:58:22,480
up where that object seems to fall from in the

820
00:58:22,519 --> 00:58:25,360
other footage from the other aircraft, so it looks like

821
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:32,239
it's being redacted. So Doug's whole theory posited that that

822
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:36,239
object that fell out of the fible was the rocket booster.

823
00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:42,639
Speaker 1: Okay, but really, like Doug's reasoning doesn't make any sense.

824
00:58:42,679 --> 00:58:46,880
So you you have this warhead, this re entry vehicle

825
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:52,400
with the nuclear physics package inside that is heavy, it's sleek,

826
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:58,639
it's it's designed for maximum speed of travel. The slower

827
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,320
a warhead would re enter the atmosphere gives the enemy

828
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,639
a greater opportunity to knock that warhead out of the sky.

829
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,360
So you have an RV that is built for speed

830
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,440
and built to take the heat, and then you have

831
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:15,960
this booster who is bulky. It's got a light you know,

832
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,039
light and weight to it. It's going to have a

833
00:59:20,239 --> 00:59:22,920
completely different sort of drag coefficient. Correct.

834
00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, actually the booster was heavier. It was three

835
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,960
whilst thousand kilograms, but it you know, it fell like

836
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:34,320
a brick after it separated. And there's actually footage from

837
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:38,800
the recent Starship launch it failed, but he could see

838
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,480
the booster separation on that launch and the booster tumbles

839
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,199
out of well out of the way after separation of

840
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:50,440
the first stage. So yeah, and you can see on

841
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,360
the profile in the report that the the boosters just

842
00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:58,599
basically starts falling like a brick and it burns up

843
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,960
in the atmosphere as it coming down because it's one

844
01:00:02,039 --> 01:00:05,159
hundred and eighty kilometers up and starts to enter the

845
01:00:05,199 --> 01:00:07,000
thicker part of the lower atmosphere.

846
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 4: It heats up. It's you know, it's.

847
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 3: Made out of aluminium or some light metal sheet metal.

848
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.

849
01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 3: So you know, the ballistic coefficient is a calculation of weight,

850
01:00:26,679 --> 01:00:28,920
drag and cross sectional area of the vehicle.

851
01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:31,719
Speaker 4: So exactly what you said.

852
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 3: That Avoco Mark four re entry vehicle was a special

853
01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:41,400
and it was made out of similar stuff to fiberglass,

854
01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:44,880
and it punched through the atmosphere really quick because the

855
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,519
fiberglass doesn't actually burn. It it sort of chars and

856
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:51,880
then it doesn't burn anymore. So it was quite an

857
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,599
innovation at the time. It punched through really quick, went

858
01:00:56,679 --> 01:01:00,679
down and it it was kilometers away from where the

859
01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:04,400
booster was. And Doug's era there was he thought that

860
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,559
the booster separated on the way down. He didn't realize

861
01:01:08,599 --> 01:01:10,000
it separated on the way up.

862
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,519
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, And I want to show here you

863
01:01:14,519 --> 01:01:18,840
you have this illustration, this graph which shows the re

864
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:24,480
entry vehicle trajectory and the booster trajectory, and then you've

865
01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:29,000
also marked known data points for both. And I mean,

866
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:33,159
you look at this thing. I mean it's really obvious.

867
01:01:33,639 --> 01:01:37,519
There's there's no way that because it looks when I

868
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:40,559
look at this thing, it essentially says to me that

869
01:01:40,719 --> 01:01:45,679
the that the that the booster was an excess of

870
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:50,920
fifteen kilometers away from the from the detonation of the

871
01:01:51,039 --> 01:01:55,400
nuclear weapon. Correct, that's right. Yeah, so you ran you

872
01:01:55,519 --> 01:02:00,400
ran these calculations through AI. Do the nineteen sixty three

873
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:06,159
numbers line up with what the AI modeling indicated?

874
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,079
Speaker 3: Basically, because you had velocity, time, and distance those three

875
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:18,920
parameters at each stage of the launch the separation, and

876
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:23,039
there was three instrument pods piggybacked onto that booster and

877
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,719
they ejected just before the booster separated. These people were

878
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,320
smart man. They put those pods within two thousand feet

879
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,519
of the nuclear detonation just through.

880
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:36,119
Speaker 4: Physics.

881
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 3: Because these pods were also shaped like re entry vehicles,

882
01:02:41,239 --> 01:02:43,840
because that's what they were testing. They had the materials

883
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:49,760
on the base of the pods were exposed to nuclear

884
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,239
detonations because they needed to see how the different types

885
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,039
of materials responded to a high X ray environment. So

886
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:01,639
they put those pods in a very precise spot. They

887
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:05,519
had flywheels inside to keep them orientated the right way,

888
01:03:07,559 --> 01:03:11,880
and they had parachutes on them. After they were exposed

889
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,719
to the blast, they floated down and were recovered by

890
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,920
the US Navy, and all three were in really good conditions.

891
01:03:20,159 --> 01:03:23,119
There was no evidence that they'd been inside the fireball.

892
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:27,440
In fact, the data they recorded put them seven hundred

893
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,400
and fifty feet further away than what they thought. They

894
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,039
had tracking beacons on them, so they knew exactly where

895
01:03:34,039 --> 01:03:39,079
they were and accelerometers. The accelerometers only registered nearly half

896
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:44,199
of what they expected, meaning that the pods were further

897
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,719
away than what they anticipated, but they still got good

898
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,840
data from it. So it wasn't the booster that fell

899
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,039
from the explosion.

900
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:53,599
Speaker 4: And it wasn't the pod.

901
01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: Jeff, let's move on to point number two regarding the

902
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,719
retrograde rockets. You pointed out earlier that on the booster

903
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,199
there are a series of these small sort of rocket

904
01:04:05,239 --> 01:04:08,360
engines that are that are aimed in the opposite direction

905
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,119
of travel, and the purpose of these rockets is to

906
01:04:12,159 --> 01:04:17,159
create distance from the re entry vehicle and the booster

907
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,800
that really kind of got it there. I understand that

908
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,719
you have information that is important to this on the

909
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,239
timing and configuration of the retro rockets and how that

910
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,719
affect the booster's trajectory. Explain that to us.

911
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 3: It basically pushed it out of the way into the

912
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:42,800
soide pushed backwards and then basically stopped its forward trouble. Yeah,

913
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:47,519
they fired for one point eight seconds each sequentially, they

914
01:04:47,679 --> 01:04:49,880
didn't foore both at the same time. They call that

915
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,800
ripple mode, and they put two hundred and ninety two

916
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,639
pounds of thrust back the opposite direction in the laterally,

917
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,480
So there was no way that that booster could be

918
01:05:01,679 --> 01:05:06,880
in the same spot as the re entry vehicle seven

919
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,079
and a half minutes later when it detonated.

920
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,519
Speaker 1: So really you have two points of data here. You

921
01:05:15,519 --> 01:05:19,719
you have the the the coefficient the what is it,

922
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,519
the the ballistic coefficient of the two different the two

923
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:29,480
different airframes. And then you also have supporting supporting the

924
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:33,559
the your point that that the r V and and

925
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,960
the the booster were not even in the same vicinity

926
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,320
because because you have information in terms of when the

927
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,159
retro thrusters were fired and the mode that they were fired,

928
01:05:47,519 --> 01:05:51,960
that would cause the booster to separate to be a

929
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,599
good distance away from the nuclear explosion. So it not

930
01:05:56,639 --> 01:05:59,719
only pushed it away, it pushed it laterally out of

931
01:05:59,719 --> 01:06:00,559
the way as well.

932
01:06:01,719 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 3: Yep, so off offline of the trajectory of the the.

933
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to flaw number three in

934
01:06:10,039 --> 01:06:15,840
Dean Johnson's attack article on on on the late Great

935
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,400
Herald Momgram and this is regarding the small white dot.

936
01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:24,079
Why do you think Johnson focused on this small white

937
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,000
dot in the in the foot it is a sort

938
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:32,039
of unidentified white dot. Could there be any valid alternative

939
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,039
interpretation to what he stated and actually backed it up

940
01:06:36,039 --> 01:06:39,440
a bit? What what did Dean say about this small white.

941
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:45,119
Speaker 4: Dot in one of the reports as a reference.

942
01:06:44,719 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 3: To one of the films showing a small white dot,

943
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,519
and they refer to that as the booster. But if

944
01:06:53,519 --> 01:07:00,360
you extrapolate the trajectories from there was two aircraft was

945
01:07:00,639 --> 01:07:05,920
north of the detonation, one was east of the detonation.

946
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,519
At flight, both flying at thirty five thousand feet with

947
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:14,480
a vast array of cameras on board. Doug quotes, the

948
01:07:14,519 --> 01:07:19,400
small white dot is coming from the easternmost aircraft. And

949
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,000
if you extrapolate those trajectories, you could see that the

950
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:30,679
booster was to the east of the blast and behind

951
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,760
it and at a lower altitude, so it had heated

952
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:39,320
up coming through the atmosphere and probably looked from the

953
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,559
camera's point of view as a small white dot well

954
01:07:42,599 --> 01:07:44,840
behind and beyond.

955
01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:46,239
Speaker 4: The weapons blast.

956
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,599
Speaker 3: Definitely not the tumbling fiery object that you can see

957
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,679
emanate from the middle of the fireball.

958
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: Any idea why he latched onto this particular thing.

959
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,159
Speaker 3: It's funny because he can't actually see the photograph because

960
01:08:06,159 --> 01:08:08,760
it's being redacted. It's not included in the report. They

961
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,480
just make a reference to it, so it's an image

962
01:08:11,519 --> 01:08:12,199
you can't.

963
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,519
Speaker 4: See to you make your own judgments on.

964
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,560
Speaker 3: So I think Doug just grabbed onto that as a

965
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:28,239
possible explainer of what that tumbling object was that clearly

966
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:28,720
it wasn't.

967
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. It definitely sounds like this

968
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,720
guy just had confirmation bias and was really kind of

969
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,479
just grasping at straws now. Johnson also mentions twenty eight

970
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:45,520
Nike Cajun and Nike Apache sounding rockets fired within an

971
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,439
hour of the blast. So could these one of these

972
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,960
rockets or their boosters explain this small white dot better

973
01:08:54,039 --> 01:08:55,439
than a thor booster.

974
01:08:57,199 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 3: Possibly, But they knew the locations those rockets because the

975
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:07,760
rockets are actually conducting experiments to see how radio waves

976
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,560
would attenuate through a nuclear fireball. And that's one of

977
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,520
the tricks. If you have a look at that movie

978
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,600
the day after They actually demonstrate the effect quite well

979
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,920
on in the attack scene. There's the first burst is

980
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,119
a high attitude burst, and what that does It stops

981
01:09:27,159 --> 01:09:31,920
the anti ballistic missile radar from locking onto the incoming

982
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:38,000
warheads because the signals can't attenuate. They get attenuated through

983
01:09:38,079 --> 01:09:42,119
that fireball. So that's what those rockets were testing. They

984
01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:48,159
were it's transmitting signals to surface based ships and in

985
01:09:48,199 --> 01:09:53,479
a sort of a zigzag fashion across the fireball. But

986
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,600
most of them will fild well after the nuclear detonation.

987
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,800
That object that falls out is in that the first

988
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:07,000
microseconds of the blast. It's definitely not the Cajun rockets.

989
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,119
Speaker 1: Oh gotcha? Okay, Fly number four Kettle's on the boil.

990
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:16,039
Fom dash A and fom dash B. What is fom

991
01:10:16,119 --> 01:10:18,000
dash A and what is fom dash B.

992
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,199
Speaker 3: I think Doug refers to that as falling object movie

993
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:25,600
A and falling object movie B.

994
01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:27,359
Speaker 1: Okay, But.

995
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,079
Speaker 3: When he wrote the article, he was still under the

996
01:10:32,119 --> 01:10:35,960
impression that the r V and the boosts separated on

997
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:41,520
the way down, So he thought, you know, the booster

998
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,119
would follow the downward trajectory of the r V and

999
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:52,319
B within the fireball. That's the basic flour of from

1000
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:56,760
a as he calls it, but Falling Object Movie B

1001
01:10:57,359 --> 01:11:02,479
suspicious because it looks like one I actually made last year,

1002
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:07,239
and the way Doug describes it, it's in slow motion

1003
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:10,119
and it looks like it takes eleven seconds to tumble

1004
01:11:10,159 --> 01:11:13,159
out of the fireball, and I can assure you that's

1005
01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:16,359
not the case. I had to run that software through

1006
01:11:16,359 --> 01:11:19,840
my software at the slowest speed, record it, and then

1007
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,039
run it through the software again that the slowest speeder

1008
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:26,680
could to get that image the way it does. It

1009
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,720
looks very much like the image I posted on my

1010
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:33,319
or the footage I posted on my YouTube channel. I'd

1011
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:37,159
like to know where Doug got that Falling Object Movie

1012
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:38,239
B from.

1013
01:11:39,399 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: And you've you've actually given this report. You emailed this

1014
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,159
report that you that you generated to Doug Johnson.

1015
01:11:47,279 --> 01:11:49,159
Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1016
01:11:49,279 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 4: Doug got a copy, yep.

1017
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: And how long ago did you send that to Doug?

1018
01:11:54,119 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 3: That was six days ago. He'd asked me questions for

1019
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:05,159
his article. Fairly cordial exchange between us, and he gave

1020
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:07,439
me a heads up when he was about to post it,

1021
01:12:08,319 --> 01:12:11,479
and he knew I was going to come back with

1022
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:17,079
the rebuttal, so fully expecting Doug to return fire. Yeah,

1023
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,359
and you haven't raid these sort of I haven't heard

1024
01:12:20,359 --> 01:12:24,079
from him yet, but I fully expect he's got something coming.

1025
01:12:24,399 --> 01:12:28,279
Speaker 1: How did mixing up of the two camera angles weekend

1026
01:12:28,319 --> 01:12:29,279
Johnson's whole.

1027
01:12:29,159 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 3: Argument, Well, looking from the eastern view that one of

1028
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:41,479
the images, there's a pronounced it's called sort of like

1029
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:46,159
a halo, but it's actually the magnetic lines of force

1030
01:12:46,279 --> 01:12:49,680
of the Earth acting on the plasma of the fireball.

1031
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:58,159
So that's the easternmost aircraft called Kettle two. I was

1032
01:12:58,199 --> 01:13:01,880
the one that actually mixed up which aircraft was which,

1033
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:08,760
because two years ago, when I first discovered this anomalies,

1034
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:12,000
I wasn't sure which aircraft was which. I had a

1035
01:13:12,039 --> 01:13:14,199
fifty to fifty chance of getting it right, and I

1036
01:13:14,279 --> 01:13:17,800
actually chose the wrong one. So I mislabeled the aircraft

1037
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,720
back in the day Kettle one and Kettle two. Yeah,

1038
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:25,520
So that was my coin toss that I missed out.

1039
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,560
But it's irrelevant really because.

1040
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:30,640
Speaker 4: It makes no difference.

1041
01:13:32,119 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 3: One of the labs was running one aircraft and one

1042
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:41,119
of the other labs, livermore Los Alamos, was running beach aircraft,

1043
01:13:41,159 --> 01:13:43,600
and that was one of the things that I positive

1044
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,920
that there was probably some sort of animosity between the

1045
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,800
two labs that caused the one to get fully declassified

1046
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,399
and one to get redacted.

1047
01:13:53,239 --> 01:13:56,520
Speaker 1: Now, these movie cameras that filmed this stuff, this isn't

1048
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,319
These aren't like regular cameras. These things are ultra fast,

1049
01:14:00,399 --> 01:14:04,600
They have super high frame rate. Why do ultra fast

1050
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,720
camera speeds in the viewing angles of this? Why does

1051
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,359
that change what we think we are seeing?

1052
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:19,359
Speaker 3: Because they're at the microsecond level, Gldial triple Prime displayed

1053
01:14:20,119 --> 01:14:23,079
things they'd never seen before or since in a nuclear

1054
01:14:23,119 --> 01:14:27,640
fireball with rebounding shockwaves. They could never explain what caused

1055
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:33,920
those shockwaves initially, and there was a second source of

1056
01:14:35,399 --> 01:14:38,760
radiation that they couldn't explain where that source came from.

1057
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,560
Speaker 4: There was a report by the flight.

1058
01:14:41,359 --> 01:14:47,159
Speaker 3: Dynamics labor at Wright Patterson. They did a in depth

1059
01:14:47,159 --> 01:14:51,560
analysis of the fireball in the first microseconds, and yeah,

1060
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,920
there was just stuff they could not explain and probably

1061
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,000
still can't explain.

1062
01:14:56,319 --> 01:15:00,199
Speaker 1: Let's move on to flaw number five, miss identif to

1063
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:05,840
fight white triangle footage. How was Dean's interpretation of the

1064
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,279
white triangle footage and correct? And what do the camera

1065
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,479
specs reveal about this?

1066
01:15:13,159 --> 01:15:18,399
Speaker 3: Well? Doug claimed that was a sixteen frames per second footage.

1067
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,399
There's no way that could be sixteen frames per second.

1068
01:15:22,199 --> 01:15:25,760
Was twenty five hundred frames per second, and you can

1069
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:30,880
see that as the shockwaves rebound. That's happening at the

1070
01:15:31,079 --> 01:15:36,239
microsecond level, and you can watch that on the one

1071
01:15:36,279 --> 01:15:39,159
with the redaction on it, you can still see the

1072
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:41,000
internal structure of the fireble.

1073
01:15:41,079 --> 01:15:42,319
Speaker 4: There was no way that.

1074
01:15:42,239 --> 01:15:48,119
Speaker 3: Would happen at a sixteen frames per second rate. He

1075
01:15:48,199 --> 01:15:51,680
seems to sort of imply that the I think it's

1076
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:57,399
Peter Kure, and the nuclear weapons film expert sort of

1077
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:00,560
agrees with him on that. I doubt that Peter would

1078
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,760
say that because it's very obvious that it's not sixteen

1079
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:08,960
frames per second, it's twenty five hundred. And the report

1080
01:16:09,119 --> 01:16:12,880
that came to light only only got hold of that

1081
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:16,880
report in May beginning of May this year, and it's

1082
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,159
actually got frame number two four nine nine, so that's

1083
01:16:20,359 --> 01:16:25,760
just ten microseconds before the one second mark, and there's

1084
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,359
an image and it's the same you can see the

1085
01:16:28,399 --> 01:16:32,000
same fireballs structure as the one that's been redacted, so

1086
01:16:32,119 --> 01:16:37,800
that pruse there is an unredacted version of that footage

1087
01:16:38,319 --> 01:16:42,840
that they've put in that report. So somewhere in the

1088
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,800
archives of the Department of Energy there is that footage

1089
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:49,840
for all to see in its unredacted form.

1090
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: But what is and maybe I'm just not quite following,

1091
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:59,960
what does Dian's claim about this thing running at sixteen

1092
01:17:00,199 --> 01:17:04,600
frames per second? How would that support his case as

1093
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,760
opposed to him saying that it ran at you know, what,

1094
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:10,520
did you say two thousand frames a second? Why does

1095
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:12,239
that make a difference to this frame rate?

1096
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 3: Because of the unredacted frame in the report, he's misidentified

1097
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,640
it as not He even says it's not from an aircraft.

1098
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,199
He says it's one of the fixed cameras on Johnston Island,

1099
01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:30,199
which is clearly not. So I'm not sure what he's

1100
01:17:30,199 --> 01:17:33,399
trying to do there, because it's obvious that that film

1101
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:37,119
that's redacted is the same one that that still frame

1102
01:17:37,239 --> 01:17:42,960
is from. So we've got footage of the redaction, you know,

1103
01:17:43,119 --> 01:17:45,520
the whole way along, and then we've got one single

1104
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,319
frame with no redaction on it.

1105
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,600
Speaker 1: Were any of the cameras that were used to film

1106
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,159
these nuclear tests? Did any of those run out sixteen

1107
01:17:55,199 --> 01:17:56,319
frames a second?

1108
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,960
Speaker 3: Some of them did, Yeah, but they didn't use that

1109
01:18:01,039 --> 01:18:04,000
tarb of X ray in motion. I don't think, okay,

1110
01:18:05,319 --> 01:18:09,439
you wouldn't say that detail that the rebounding it's quite

1111
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:13,239
interesting that the pressure wave goes out and it bounces

1112
01:18:13,399 --> 01:18:21,720
back from from within itself and forms another vireball source.

1113
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,119
It's quite amazing and that was why later on they

1114
01:18:25,279 --> 01:18:28,800
studied that particular weapons test in great detail.

1115
01:18:30,239 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, it would make no sense as to

1116
01:18:33,079 --> 01:18:36,960
why they would use something of such a low low

1117
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:43,880
frame rate. If you're analyzing nuclear explosion performance, just talking

1118
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,520
from my sort of layman perspective, you would want the

1119
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:52,880
maximum number of frames. I mean, even like today film

1120
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:57,720
runs at thirty frames per second, So it makes just

1121
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,279
Dean's logic is just ridiculous because it would make no

1122
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:07,119
sense of if you were analyzing footage to understand what

1123
01:19:07,319 --> 01:19:12,680
happened during a nuclear detonation, you would want the maximum

1124
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:17,119
amount of frames in the shortest amount of period of time,

1125
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:20,920
so you wouldn't have motion blur. The resolution would be high.

1126
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:25,640
I mean, is my logic solid on that? Yeah.

1127
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 3: There was sixty six cameras on each plane or hating

1128
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:36,399
different and different organizations had different projects were running each camera.

1129
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:44,720
The weapons labs wanted to see the early time fireball activity,

1130
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,239
because that tells them if their design, their weapons design

1131
01:19:48,399 --> 01:19:54,279
is a success. And these particular Bluegill tests became the

1132
01:19:54,319 --> 01:19:58,640
basis of the what they call the W seventy one

1133
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:05,119
five guiton Nikola warhead that was used purely.

1134
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:09,600
Speaker 4: For anti ballistic missile defense. And that's where they had.

1135
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 3: To They say they borrowed several tons of gold from

1136
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:18,279
the US Treasury to make those weapons, because gold is

1137
01:20:18,319 --> 01:20:20,600
the key to producing X rays.

1138
01:20:21,159 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 1: Let's move on to FLO six. Los Alamos versus Livermore

1139
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:31,399
laboratory rivalry. What did you learn about the rivalry between

1140
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:32,399
those two labs.

1141
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 3: It's quite odd because that was Everyone knows that Los

1142
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:42,279
Alamos and Livermore don't like each other purely, or didn't

1143
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:47,560
up until even today. On LinkedIn, just this week, I

1144
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:52,159
saw two articles from one from Los Alamos, one from Livermore,

1145
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:56,640
and they still snipe at each other today. So and

1146
01:20:57,399 --> 01:21:01,600
it stems from Edward Teller trying to push the hydrogen

1147
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:06,640
bomb back in the late nineteen forties and Robert open

1148
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,119
I have a j Robert Oppenheimer and some of the

1149
01:21:09,159 --> 01:21:15,600
other scientists were against the hydrogen bomb and a book

1150
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,720
got written in the early fifties, which pretty much accused

1151
01:21:19,279 --> 01:21:22,439
Los Alamos had been traders and not wanting to develop

1152
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:27,600
the hydrogen bomb. And the second director of Los Alamos

1153
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,479
was a guy named Norris Bradbury. He was directed for

1154
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,159
twenty five years. He took serious offense to that and

1155
01:21:34,279 --> 01:21:38,239
he would not let Teller at Los Alamos at all.

1156
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:41,800
Teller was banned from Los Alamos.

1157
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:43,279
Speaker 4: And the chief.

1158
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 3: Weapons designer was a guy named Bob Christie. He refused

1159
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:52,479
to shake Teller's hand whenever they met outside conferences and stuff.

1160
01:21:53,239 --> 01:22:00,239
So that's well known animosity. And I even emailed Dug

1161
01:22:01,279 --> 01:22:06,399
a thesis written by a lady that you know that

1162
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:11,279
was her whole thesis was Warhead Politics, Sybil Francis. The

1163
01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:15,640
name was doctor Sibil Francis. I emailed him as evidence, say,

1164
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:17,199
you know, I just have a look at this. There's

1165
01:22:17,199 --> 01:22:20,279
some interesting stuff in there. And he refused to use that,

1166
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:24,560
which I found odd. You know, it's you can't sort

1167
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,039
of gloss these things over when it's well known. But

1168
01:22:28,119 --> 01:22:29,840
they don't get on because their competition.

1169
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:35,079
Speaker 1: So so, but what in terms of this whole argument,

1170
01:22:36,399 --> 01:22:40,079
what does how do how does Doug's downplaying of this

1171
01:22:41,039 --> 01:22:43,239
serve as a mechanism to support his case.

1172
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretending that there is an animosity, because it's confusing

1173
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:54,800
why one lab would fully declassify the footage. It clearly

1174
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,640
shows something falling from the fireball, and the other one

1175
01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:00,119
would redact it.

1176
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:03,039
Speaker 4: And I asked doctor.

1177
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:07,359
Speaker 3: John Zinn, who was a Weapons Lab scientist during Operation

1178
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:11,680
fish Bowl, which was the high altitude tests, you know

1179
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:17,119
why there would be two sort of separate films with

1180
01:23:17,199 --> 01:23:19,960
different classification levels. And he sort of said, Oh, it

1181
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,880
could be just personal preference. You know some people and

1182
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:28,840
people have different risk assessments. You know, someone that rock

1183
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:33,920
climbs without ropes has a different assessment of risk than

1184
01:23:35,159 --> 01:23:39,239
someone that works in an office. So whether they thought

1185
01:23:39,319 --> 01:23:42,840
that there wouldn't be any risk of releasing that footage,

1186
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,479
and you know, it worked for twenty odd years. That

1187
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:51,880
footage was released in nineteen ninety eight. Twenty years it's

1188
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:57,760
taken to come out that that's something that should be

1189
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:03,800
looked upon it a little bit closer, Ye know that

1190
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,640
that that was the argument that there was a disagreement

1191
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:07,560
between the labs.

1192
01:24:08,119 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 4: That sounds feasible.

1193
01:24:10,039 --> 01:24:13,159
Speaker 1: So really a turf war could be the reason why

1194
01:24:13,239 --> 01:24:15,119
there is some murkiness in the story.

1195
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and that you know, Doug sort of

1196
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:24,359
said it was an unfounded, uh, allegation of animosity between

1197
01:24:24,399 --> 01:24:24,840
the labs.

1198
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,279
Speaker 4: I mean, it's well documented.

1199
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:31,359
Speaker 1: So and and and please go and have Sorry.

1200
01:24:32,079 --> 01:24:35,279
Speaker 3: It was disingenious to sort of pretend there wasn't because

1201
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:37,319
it's quite easy to dispel that.

1202
01:24:38,319 --> 01:24:43,359
Speaker 1: And and this this this rivalry which Doug is downplaying

1203
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:48,680
or denying, this this rivalry from how you're explaining this,

1204
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,760
this is a long rivalry. It wasn't just a rivalry

1205
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,960
that existed during this particular test.

1206
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:59,560
Speaker 3: No, as I said that from what they posted on

1207
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:03,680
LinkedIn this week, they were sort of taken potshots at

1208
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:04,199
one another.

1209
01:25:04,239 --> 01:25:08,399
Speaker 1: Still, yeah, so yeah, there you go. Okay, so let's

1210
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:12,000
move on to flow number seven. Starfish Prime is not

1211
01:25:12,319 --> 01:25:14,319
an analog. Explain that.

1212
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,840
Speaker 3: Starfish Prime was a completely different weapons test was done

1213
01:25:20,079 --> 01:25:23,399
in July ninth of July nineteen sixty two. It was

1214
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,079
a different warhead. It was a W nine warhead, which

1215
01:25:28,359 --> 01:25:33,520
it was an enhanced neutron warhead. So the purpose of

1216
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:39,880
that was to generate energetic neutrons to and they interact

1217
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:44,760
up in the higher atmosphere with electrons and blast electrons.

1218
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,119
Out from their parent atoms and what that does it

1219
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:52,760
causes a potential difference in electrical charge and that's where

1220
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:59,960
the emp electromagnetic pulses generated from. So Starfish Prime was

1221
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:04,039
at an altitude of four hundred kilometers. It still used

1222
01:26:04,079 --> 01:26:07,279
the thaw and it was a special version of the thaw.

1223
01:26:07,399 --> 01:26:13,119
Missile was a Douglas Space Vehicle DSV two echo. That's

1224
01:26:13,199 --> 01:26:18,560
the type of that it was. It actually had a

1225
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:23,960
lower apergee as well, the Starfish Prime apergee which after

1226
01:26:24,039 --> 01:26:29,079
the booster had separated from the RV the RV and

1227
01:26:29,159 --> 01:26:32,880
he went to seven hundred kilometers before it started its descent,

1228
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,359
and it started after it reached seven hundred and only

1229
01:26:36,399 --> 01:26:40,039
went down to four hundred kilometers before it detonated. So

1230
01:26:41,159 --> 01:26:45,439
the aircraft array and they had the same aircraft that

1231
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:47,640
they used for Blue Guild Triple Prime, but they were

1232
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:51,760
hundreds of kilometers away from their positions they were in

1233
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:55,279
Blue Guild Triple Prime. They were looking at different angles

1234
01:26:56,119 --> 01:27:00,680
and the field of view was much larger. And in

1235
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:06,199
the Starfish Prime reports there are numerous sightings of the

1236
01:27:06,199 --> 01:27:10,039
booster tumbling down, which of course would have happened because

1237
01:27:10,079 --> 01:27:12,760
you've got a wider field of view from that distance,

1238
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:21,000
and so that once Doug realized that the boosters separated

1239
01:27:21,039 --> 01:27:23,359
on the way up, not on the way down, they

1240
01:27:23,399 --> 01:27:28,079
started he started saying that Starfish prime saw the booster,

1241
01:27:28,199 --> 01:27:30,960
so Bluegill prime booster would have been there too, which

1242
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,920
is just a flawed, very flawed logic, completely different tests.

1243
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:39,720
You can't you can't use that as an analogue to

1244
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,560
jam your argument into those sort of parameters.

1245
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's I think that's exactly what he

1246
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,600
was doing again, just kind of grasping at straws. So really,

1247
01:27:52,239 --> 01:27:57,119
Johnson's argument is completely without merit. He's he's importing this

1248
01:27:57,359 --> 01:28:01,319
Starfish Prime footage even though the apogey was ten times

1249
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:05,720
higher and the yield of the weapon was three times larger.

1250
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:12,239
So in hard numbers, why are those conditions too different

1251
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:14,600
to reuse it? I mean, is it truly in apples

1252
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:17,119
and orangest thing? I think that's what I understand that

1253
01:28:17,159 --> 01:28:17,640
you're saying.

1254
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, And there's in the report. I've

1255
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,560
used the aircraft array positions and you can see that

1256
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:30,159
there's a massive difference in where the aircraft were located.

1257
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,159
The different because they had to point at a different

1258
01:28:34,159 --> 01:28:38,359
angle in the sky, and so being further back, you've

1259
01:28:38,359 --> 01:28:40,760
got a wider field of view, and of course you

1260
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:44,680
would have seen the boosters tumbeling in the background. They again,

1261
01:28:45,159 --> 01:28:51,199
you know, the neutrons traveled at light speed after the blast,

1262
01:28:51,319 --> 01:28:56,039
so that the booster got impinged by energetic neutrons. But

1263
01:28:57,199 --> 01:29:01,319
the fireball of Starfish Prime, because it was outside the atmosphere,

1264
01:29:02,119 --> 01:29:05,119
it didn't form like a normal fireball for the other

1265
01:29:05,159 --> 01:29:07,880
shots because they were much lower in the atmosphere.

1266
01:29:08,199 --> 01:29:09,319
Speaker 4: This thing was in space.

1267
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:14,399
Speaker 3: So yeah, and by the way, it caused a lot

1268
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,840
of damage to the satellites that were in orbit at

1269
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,840
the time. There was only nine I think that significantly

1270
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:26,560
damaged the satellites. The British government actually complained to the

1271
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,800
US about Starfish Prime because there was another test called

1272
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:33,359
Arica that was going to take place at a thousand

1273
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:39,039
kilometers autitude with a one point four megaton warhead as well,

1274
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:42,760
and that one got canceled because the British demonstrated so

1275
01:29:43,239 --> 01:29:48,039
heavily against that because there was concerns about the Van

1276
01:29:48,119 --> 01:29:51,560
Allen radiation belts that they're going to pump them up,

1277
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:55,520
and they actually had no idea what the effect was

1278
01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:58,600
going to be. Of setting off such a large weapon

1279
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,239
at that height.

1280
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:06,560
Speaker 1: So really it boils down to the starfish prime analogy

1281
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:10,399
that he is trying to shoehorn into this thing. It's

1282
01:30:11,359 --> 01:30:15,680
detonating at a at a higher altitude. It's a larger

1283
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:19,319
yield weapon. So because of those two things, where the

1284
01:30:19,359 --> 01:30:24,520
aircraft would be in order to capture this the field

1285
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:26,640
of view of the camp, the aircraft would have been

1286
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:30,039
further away, the angle it would have shot it would

1287
01:30:30,079 --> 01:30:33,600
have been different, and therefore as well, further away it

1288
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:37,239
would have been, you wouldn't have been close enough to

1289
01:30:37,279 --> 01:30:40,079
make out, for instance, an object falling or anything of

1290
01:30:40,079 --> 01:30:42,279
that nature might following you correctly.

1291
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:44,720
Speaker 4: Pretty much. Yeah, it's the.

1292
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:48,039
Speaker 3: You can't really compare it to you.

1293
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so yeah, so bottom line is it's apples

1294
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:56,279
and oranges. Okay, moving on Flaw number eight, Falling sphere

1295
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,720
rad hot recoveries. What is this?

1296
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:07,079
Speaker 3: So before each test, they'd had a sphere that they

1297
01:31:07,239 --> 01:31:12,000
dropped from a certain attitude, and they had given an

1298
01:31:12,079 --> 01:31:15,600
indication of air density, and it had also give them

1299
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:19,640
a chance to calibrate their radars bouncing off that sphere,

1300
01:31:21,199 --> 01:31:25,159
and generally it was twenty four hours before a test

1301
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,199
they did drop one fifteen minutes after the test, but

1302
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:37,000
it didn't go through the radiation cloud. And some of

1303
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:40,880
those objects that they picked up in the recovery, those

1304
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:45,079
instrument pods that I mentioned before, All three of those

1305
01:31:45,159 --> 01:31:49,359
pods were recovered by nine o'clock that morning, but in

1306
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:55,960
the afternoon they were still recovering debris and it was radioactive.

1307
01:31:57,039 --> 01:32:00,960
One of those was described as a black ball, had

1308
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:07,319
a reading of thirty milli rotogens from one foot away

1309
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:13,039
one foot distance, which is fairly radioactive. Dug neglected to

1310
01:32:13,119 --> 01:32:19,840
mention that part in his article, which again is a

1311
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:24,520
bit disingenious because it implies that it's just one of

1312
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:29,840
the weather spears that they've picked up, nothing important about that.

1313
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:38,279
But actually we Doug writing this report's actually made me

1314
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:43,479
delve deeper into the events of that day, and I've

1315
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:53,439
actually uncovered more data that supports anonymous or objects that

1316
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:58,520
they couldn't describe. And the ship logs are quite interesting.

1317
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:04,319
Interesting that day because there was a transfer from there

1318
01:33:04,399 --> 01:33:09,000
was three ships that were in the recovery mission for

1319
01:33:09,079 --> 01:33:13,439
the instrumentation pods. One was the Safeguard, one was the Engage,

1320
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:17,479
and the other one was the McCain. So there was

1321
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:21,600
a transfer of debris from the safeguard to the engage

1322
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:26,479
and then from the engage to the McCain and then

1323
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:30,960
at between the sixteen hundred hour and twenty hour watching

1324
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:37,960
the logs, the McCain then transferred that debris to the Princeton. Now,

1325
01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:42,119
the Princeton was the headquarters of the whole task force.

1326
01:33:42,159 --> 01:33:47,840
That's where Brigadier General Alfred Starbird was located. That was

1327
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:51,079
his headquarters on the ship. Because Johnston Island was quite small,

1328
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:54,560
he had an a air conditioned cabin that he could

1329
01:33:55,560 --> 01:34:01,319
hang out in, so that was his headquarters. And there's

1330
01:34:01,359 --> 01:34:06,159
an interesting message that got transmitted. It's called Commserve Pack

1331
01:34:07,159 --> 01:34:10,920
twenty nine two one four ZULU. So that was sent

1332
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:15,960
on the twenty eighth of October at sixteen fourteen local.

1333
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:17,520
Speaker 4: Time, Johnston Island.

1334
01:34:19,039 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 3: And that has revealed a whole heap of new information

1335
01:34:23,159 --> 01:34:26,000
that I will be releasing very soon.

1336
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 1: Excellent, and I take it this information continues to a

1337
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:33,680
blow to Smotheren's Dean Johnson's article.

1338
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:39,600
Speaker 3: Yep, very compelling evidence. And I've got second and third

1339
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:45,079
party subject matter experts looking at that data. That's very exciting.

1340
01:34:45,319 --> 01:34:47,239
Speaker 1: Well, I look forward to having you back on to

1341
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:50,720
discuss your further findings. I want to back up a

1342
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:55,319
bet to the falling sphere. What I don't understand is

1343
01:34:55,439 --> 01:35:02,199
why the sphere's radiation reading is significant, and like, what

1344
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:05,479
about why is that important? The radiation really.

1345
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:10,279
Speaker 3: Because it means it was exposed to the fireball, the

1346
01:35:10,359 --> 01:35:14,600
nuclear fireball. You know, they used to drop those spheres

1347
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:19,479
from aircraft and from rockets just to get a gauge

1348
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:25,680
of the weather and the air density, so very they

1349
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,199
were nowhere near the nuclear explosion, so for them to

1350
01:35:29,199 --> 01:35:32,159
be irradiated is unusual.

1351
01:35:33,039 --> 01:35:37,359
Speaker 1: And and Dean's argument regarding this as.

1352
01:35:37,279 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 3: What, well, but the black ball that they recovered, and

1353
01:35:43,079 --> 01:35:47,239
mind you when they recovered it in their cargo nets,

1354
01:35:47,359 --> 01:35:52,159
that the ship lost complete power, that a total power surge. Yeah,

1355
01:35:52,279 --> 01:35:56,920
So what's unusual about that safeguard is it's what they

1356
01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:00,840
call a diver class vessel and it had two separate generators.

1357
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:05,840
Those generators with DC generators, they weren't alternating current. And

1358
01:36:07,399 --> 01:36:11,119
for a ship to lose both generators at the same

1359
01:36:11,159 --> 01:36:15,239
time is extremely unusual because normally you run in a

1360
01:36:15,279 --> 01:36:18,319
configuration that's called a split bus. If you lose one,

1361
01:36:18,399 --> 01:36:21,000
you'll only lose half the ship, but that ship lost

1362
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:26,159
complete power as it tried to bring that ball on

1363
01:36:26,279 --> 01:36:30,520
board in its nets. Which it's just another data point.

1364
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:32,520
It's of strangeness.

1365
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:35,720
Speaker 1: Any other points that you would like to make with

1366
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:41,640
this particular sort of fly that you've found.

1367
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:46,199
Speaker 3: Not really, but they need to emphasize that they helped

1368
01:36:46,239 --> 01:36:50,079
me uncover more compelling evidence.

1369
01:36:50,199 --> 01:36:56,199
Speaker 1: Next to the last one fly nine Early time fireball analysis.

1370
01:36:55,479 --> 01:36:59,720
What significance do you place on the absence of the

1371
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:05,319
buster in the Project eight AT three fireball analysis? Well,

1372
01:37:05,359 --> 01:37:08,119
you know, why is it a big deal that the

1373
01:37:08,119 --> 01:37:11,359
official fireball photos don't show the booster at all?

1374
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:15,640
Speaker 3: There's no mention of it. That was the right Patterson

1375
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:21,359
people with the Flight Dynamics laboratory, and they're looking at

1376
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:27,800
a millisecond level the X ray sources of the devices

1377
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:33,119
in its first microseconds of life as it detonates. You know,

1378
01:37:33,159 --> 01:37:37,239
they're looking at the weapon how it vaporizes into a

1379
01:37:37,279 --> 01:37:41,039
plasma because that in the middle of that fireball that's

1380
01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:45,159
a million degrees kelvin. You know that matter just turns

1381
01:37:45,199 --> 01:37:50,079
to plasma. There's no materials that humans make that can

1382
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:56,239
survive that sort of temperature. You know that nuclear fusion

1383
01:37:56,279 --> 01:38:04,000
reactors have to maintain a magnetic field around the reactors

1384
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:10,840
when they're generating those temperatures, so there's no actual material

1385
01:38:11,119 --> 01:38:16,319
touching that temperature. So you know, they're looking deep inside

1386
01:38:16,319 --> 01:38:19,319
the fire ball. They've got cameras on those pods, pinhole

1387
01:38:19,359 --> 01:38:24,039
cameras that can record the X ray sources, and they

1388
01:38:24,159 --> 01:38:27,319
found an anomaly in the source of the X rays.

1389
01:38:27,359 --> 01:38:30,239
There was a large source and a small source. And

1390
01:38:30,279 --> 01:38:34,079
that's where that footnote comes from, because after they wrote

1391
01:38:34,119 --> 01:38:36,319
the report, and I think just before they published it,

1392
01:38:36,319 --> 01:38:38,840
they put that footnote in that said that, you know,

1393
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:42,399
there was anomalies that they can't explain and that needs

1394
01:38:42,439 --> 01:38:47,880
further research. So you know, there's no mention of a

1395
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,720
booster there at all, which, okay, guys would have seen it.

1396
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 1: All right. Finally, number ten radiation exposure dismissed. What are

1397
01:38:55,479 --> 01:39:00,479
your thoughts on why Johnson really pretty much dismissed any

1398
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:04,760
kind of radiation exposure among the operation dominic personnel.

1399
01:39:06,079 --> 01:39:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was not a smart move because it's well

1400
01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:12,319
documented that the atomic veterans. That was the whole reason

1401
01:39:12,399 --> 01:39:19,199
that came in Tempo report was written was because NHS

1402
01:39:19,239 --> 01:39:25,079
had started to see veterans atomic veterans present with leukemia

1403
01:39:25,159 --> 01:39:29,560
and cancer at astronomical rates far outside the norm, and

1404
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:31,800
that's what prompted that report to get written.

1405
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,359
Speaker 4: But Department of Energy and Department.

1406
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:39,640
Speaker 3: Of Fens selected the Carmen Tempo group because Carmen Tempo

1407
01:39:40,319 --> 01:39:44,960
took part in Operation Dominic, And you know, they claimed

1408
01:39:45,039 --> 01:39:51,000
that the high radiation exposure readings were due to faulty dossiometers,

1409
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:55,680
a seal was gone, but that doesn't explain why people

1410
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:58,039
started getting cancer and lakemia.

1411
01:39:57,720 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 1: You know.

1412
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 4: So it was, Yes, it was.

1413
01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:04,880
Speaker 3: A finding that they had to reach to get themselves

1414
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:11,319
out of trouble. Basically, Yeah, there's well documented evidence and

1415
01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:13,800
I've actually put a section in there of one of

1416
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:20,279
the marine helicopter crew that because Bluegill Triple Prime was

1417
01:40:20,319 --> 01:40:22,960
the fourth test of the Bluegill series because the other

1418
01:40:23,039 --> 01:40:26,439
three had failed, and that the second one actually exploded

1419
01:40:26,439 --> 01:40:32,079
on the launchpad and spread radio active plutonium and gold

1420
01:40:32,239 --> 01:40:35,039
all across Johnston Island, and that those people had to

1421
01:40:35,039 --> 01:40:38,720
go in and clean it up. And as he said,

1422
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:40,920
I think most of the crew that he was with

1423
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:45,560
had died since he wrote that, and his initial attempts

1424
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:49,760
to get his records of his exposure they claimed that,

1425
01:40:51,119 --> 01:40:54,119
you know, the records had been destroyed in a warehouse

1426
01:40:54,159 --> 01:40:58,039
fire in Saint Louis, And he got onto someone else

1427
01:40:58,119 --> 01:41:01,079
that in Washington that said that all the time because

1428
01:41:01,079 --> 01:41:03,239
they're lazy, you know, they just don't want to find

1429
01:41:03,279 --> 01:41:07,840
their records, and he actually found someone that helped him out.

1430
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:11,279
But yeah, it was that was the part I didn't like,

1431
01:41:11,399 --> 01:41:17,680
sort of dismissing the whole radiation level. And again, one

1432
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:20,319
of those ships that's mentioned there with the high radiation

1433
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:26,680
level is the key to the new uncovered research. It

1434
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:30,159
was only there for one test and a lot of

1435
01:41:30,199 --> 01:41:34,479
its crew members had high doses of radiation. They were

1436
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:36,520
only there for one test and it was a high

1437
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:40,399
attitude test. They were nowhere near anything in their official

1438
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:45,000
assigned tasks that would have exposed them to radiation, and

1439
01:41:45,079 --> 01:41:49,119
yet their crew members recorded high levels of radiation. So

1440
01:41:49,159 --> 01:41:53,920
they got it from somewhere. And my posit that that's

1441
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:55,479
from the recovery operation.

1442
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:59,760
Speaker 1: But any idea why Dean would have played that down.

1443
01:42:02,359 --> 01:42:04,720
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. It wasn't It wasn't a smart thing

1444
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:07,439
to do because it's easily disproved.

1445
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly. Okay, so we can wrap it up here,

1446
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:16,119
One of the things that I understand is your Reddit

1447
01:42:16,159 --> 01:42:21,600
account was banned for discussing blue Gill, triple prime and

1448
01:42:22,239 --> 01:42:24,920
any idea why, And you know, what does that say

1449
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:26,840
about censorship online censorship?

1450
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:32,640
Speaker 3: Some people just don't want to even think about the

1451
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:39,239
possibility of our higher species getting involved and particularly getting

1452
01:42:39,279 --> 01:42:43,239
interested in our nuclear weapons tests. The thought just blows

1453
01:42:43,279 --> 01:42:47,880
their mind. And some of them were moderators on that

1454
01:42:48,039 --> 01:42:51,039
particular sub it was called the Nuclear Weapons sub It's

1455
01:42:51,319 --> 01:42:52,159
quite a good sub.

1456
01:42:52,239 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 2: They go into some technical detail of of what, you know,

1457
01:43:00,119 --> 01:43:05,039
what's happening in a lot of the nuclear tests.

1458
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:08,720
Speaker 3: Quite you know, they'll argue over the most minute details

1459
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:11,520
of nuclear weapons test. But they just did not want

1460
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:16,680
to even contemplate talking the possibility that this was and

1461
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:20,359
the Atlas eight F tests thirty seven days prior. You know,

1462
01:43:20,399 --> 01:43:25,720
that's the key to this whole thing. That test that

1463
01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:29,840
was filmed, and it was the same type of RV

1464
01:43:30,399 --> 01:43:34,760
and AVCO Mark four and there was something filmed following it,

1465
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:39,920
and that footage was uploaded to the National Archives by

1466
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:44,199
the Office of the Secretary of Defense. That's their footage.

1467
01:43:44,399 --> 01:43:50,279
They uploaded it. So and this lends credence to what

1468
01:43:50,359 --> 01:43:55,239
Tom DeLong said in the days before he got outed

1469
01:43:55,279 --> 01:43:59,800
on the DNC wikileagues hacked, that they knew that they

1470
01:43:59,840 --> 01:44:02,720
were there was a possibility that something was going to

1471
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:06,159
follow that test, and they deliberately shot it down. That's

1472
01:44:06,199 --> 01:44:09,399
what he was told, and I believe it was General

1473
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:14,000
Neil McCaslin and Mike Carey that told him that. He

1474
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:18,279
revealed that on the Jimmy Church Day to Black Radio

1475
01:44:18,359 --> 01:44:23,199
show on August thirty, twenty sixteen, episode five one five,

1476
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:27,399
and then ten days later the DNC hack revealed that

1477
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:31,199
he'd been in contact the email contact with Neil McCaslin,

1478
01:44:32,119 --> 01:44:37,359
John Podesta, and Mike Carey. So Tom DeLong I don't

1479
01:44:37,399 --> 01:44:41,319
believe has spoken about it since because he's clearly accidentally

1480
01:44:41,359 --> 01:44:45,600
revealed his source. Probably scared y.

1481
01:44:46,199 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 4: I think I.

1482
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:51,279
Speaker 1: Understand that you reached out to nuclear historian Alex Wellerstein.

1483
01:44:52,079 --> 01:44:55,840
How did he respond to your theory and has his

1484
01:44:56,279 --> 01:44:59,399
stance evolved since your initial communication with him?

1485
01:45:00,680 --> 01:45:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it did. He was quite interested in the whole thing.

1486
01:45:04,039 --> 01:45:07,920
He runs a site called nuke Map where he's got

1487
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:09,720
an interactive.

1488
01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:12,000
Speaker 4: Site where he can.

1489
01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:18,760
Speaker 3: Select different yields for nuclear blasts, fill model trajectories, and

1490
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:22,000
he actually made one up for Bluegill Triple prim In.

1491
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:26,039
It was quite good, you know, showed that the rocket

1492
01:45:26,119 --> 01:45:32,319
launch and the RV separation and then the detonation. But

1493
01:45:34,359 --> 01:45:37,119
I'm not sure he's a professor at one of the universities.

1494
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:43,039
Perhaps he was getting heat from the faculty or something,

1495
01:45:43,079 --> 01:45:45,880
but he seemed to change his tune a bit, and

1496
01:45:46,279 --> 01:45:50,760
Doug actually contacted him and asked him what he thought,

1497
01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:53,920
and then he posted on Reddit that day, I think

1498
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:55,600
and sort of said, oh, what's going on with this

1499
01:45:55,720 --> 01:45:59,199
triangle sort of thing? And a few of the other

1500
01:45:59,279 --> 01:46:03,399
redditors were quite receptive to the idea. One had been

1501
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:06,840
involved in films and he said I've never seen anything

1502
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:10,319
like that in forty years wow, being in the film industry,

1503
01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:15,439
so you know, but ultimately they didn't moderators didn't like

1504
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:20,800
where it was going, so they kicked me off. So yeah,

1505
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:22,000
that's the censorship for you.

1506
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:26,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So finally, what is your goal in publishing

1507
01:46:26,199 --> 01:46:31,479
this rebuttal? Is it scientific clarity, historical correction? Why did

1508
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:36,000
you put so much time into this amazing forty ish

1509
01:46:36,039 --> 01:46:38,520
page rebuttal? Well?

1510
01:46:40,399 --> 01:46:43,159
Speaker 3: Marrit von rnnom Camp had actually come out just before

1511
01:46:43,199 --> 01:46:46,119
that and said he thought it was the instrument pods.

1512
01:46:47,279 --> 01:46:52,800
Doug did a pretty good job of demolishing Marrick's theory there,

1513
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:58,319
so I wasn't going to help him interfere with that.

1514
01:46:58,560 --> 01:47:03,239
But so you know, if you eliminate the instrumentation pods,

1515
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:06,880
and if you eliminate the booster as the object that

1516
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:11,479
tumbles out, the only thing left is that object that

1517
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:16,439
followed the AVCO r V from the Atlas eight F

1518
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:19,560
test on nine eighth of the September nineteen sixty two

1519
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:24,479
that was filmed in the Atlantic Missile range. But same

1520
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:27,199
type of r V, same type of thing.

1521
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,319
Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, thank you so much for joining us, and

1522
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:34,640
really moreover, thank you for just putting in what had

1523
01:47:34,680 --> 01:47:38,800
to have been an enormous amount of time. The level

1524
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:44,880
of detail here is and the references used in your research,

1525
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:49,800
it is truly truly extensive. I mean, I am no

1526
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:54,520
expert when it comes to this, but just speaking from

1527
01:47:55,079 --> 01:47:59,000
my perspective, it seems that you completely blew out of

1528
01:47:59,039 --> 01:48:06,039
the water Deans what I view as really ridiculous article. Yeah,

1529
01:48:06,119 --> 01:48:08,880
I mean really really great job, and I would love

1530
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:10,560
to have you back on the show with this new

1531
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:13,079
information that you have discovered. When you're ready.

1532
01:48:14,239 --> 01:48:18,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Matt. I've actually submitted this paper to the

1533
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:24,439
SEU conference which is ongoing this weekend in Alabama, so

1534
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:27,279
you know that the scientists and the physicists there can

1535
01:48:27,359 --> 01:48:30,560
actually see the data, and I think I already know

1536
01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:33,640
the answer. They're going to pretty much say that, yeah,

1537
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:37,359
that's correct. There's no way the booster could have possibly

1538
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:41,960
been anywhere near the detonation. So look forward to seeing

1539
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:43,640
you again, Fluid.

1540
01:48:44,239 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, thanks again for coming on the show, Thanks

1541
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:48,880
for staying up so late, and we look forward to

1542
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:52,479
having you back. Jeff Crookshank, ladies and gentlemen.

1543
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:54,560
Speaker 4: Thanks Matt.

1544
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 1: All right, well, I hope everyone enjoyed. I forgot to

1545
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:05,239
mention that our interview with Jeff was pre recorded a

1546
01:49:05,279 --> 01:49:09,039
few weeks ago actually, due to the time difference in Australia.

1547
01:49:09,039 --> 01:49:13,359
I think we had recorded at something like seven am. Anyway,

1548
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:16,880
that's why one of the reasons we didn't have them live. Also,

1549
01:49:17,039 --> 01:49:20,079
I do have an on air correction to make It

1550
01:49:20,199 --> 01:49:26,319
was Ellsberg who interviewed the pilots, not Haroldgren. Momgren was

1551
01:49:26,359 --> 01:49:31,199
in charge of costing the anti ballistic missile system, and

1552
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:35,239
I also have some important information for you regarding mister Momngram,

1553
01:49:35,399 --> 01:49:41,199
something called the Weapons Systems Evaluation Group, which goes by

1554
01:49:41,199 --> 01:49:45,199
the acronym WITHSEG. I mean, we know the government loves

1555
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:50,880
those acronyms anyway. This with SG was formed in nineteen

1556
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:55,000
forty nine to carry out operational research work for the

1557
01:49:55,119 --> 01:49:59,560
Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States of the

1558
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:01,760
United State ch Army and also for the United States

1559
01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:05,199
Secretary of Defense. And this group oversaw the appraisal of

1560
01:50:05,279 --> 01:50:09,520
weapons used during the Korean War. The group collaborated with

1561
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:14,479
Israel and evaluating the effectiveness of Soviet weapons during the

1562
01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:18,760
Cold War. Guess who was in charge of costings for

1563
01:50:19,279 --> 01:50:24,840
the w SAG, Harold Momgren. Once again, here's a guy

1564
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:27,640
who supposedly there's no way he could have had a

1565
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:33,600
Q clearance, is working for that organization, you know. And

1566
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:40,640
again you have to read this forty pages of extensive

1567
01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:49,560
research on why Douglas Dean Johnson's attack on Harold Momgren

1568
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:54,079
is just total, total bullshit. I mean, seriously, you have

1569
01:50:54,159 --> 01:50:58,520
to wonder where Dean Johnson came up with this stuff.

1570
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:03,279
When you read this, it is blatantly obvious that Dean

1571
01:51:03,359 --> 01:51:06,800
has no idea what he's talking about I mean, seriously,

1572
01:51:08,119 --> 01:51:13,159
it's clear to me, in my personal opinion, Dean did

1573
01:51:13,199 --> 01:51:17,720
not do the research. And speaking of research, let's talk

1574
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:24,079
about Foya. The great Jesse Michaels of American Alchemy released

1575
01:51:24,239 --> 01:51:28,319
this incredible interview with Harold Momgren and his daughter Pippa

1576
01:51:28,359 --> 01:51:32,199
was in there as well on April twenty third, twenty

1577
01:51:32,359 --> 01:51:40,600
twenty five. Douglas Dean Johnson's article came out May twentieth,

1578
01:51:41,119 --> 01:51:46,479
twenty twenty five. So you're telling me, Douglas Dean Johnson

1579
01:51:47,039 --> 01:51:51,600
got all these Foya requests out the door and answer

1580
01:51:52,079 --> 01:51:56,239
answers back to them. It gets replies to his Foyer

1581
01:51:56,279 --> 01:52:03,159
requests in less than thirty days. In thirty days, Dean

1582
01:52:03,239 --> 01:52:09,680
Johnson sees the interview with Jesse Michaels on American Alchemy,

1583
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:14,399
comes up with a bunch of Foyer requests, sends them off,

1584
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:20,079
and then magically, Dean Johnson gets these Foyer requests answered

1585
01:52:20,399 --> 01:52:24,800
in thirty days. You gotta be kidding me. I mean,

1586
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:29,800
even the great Foyer King John Greenwald of black Vault

1587
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:33,279
dot Com can't get that kind of response from Foya

1588
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:40,279
in anywhere near that kind of time frame. It stinks

1589
01:52:40,319 --> 01:52:46,479
to high heaven. Seriously, it makes zero sense. The fact

1590
01:52:46,520 --> 01:52:51,479
that Dean Johnson turned this around in thirty days, I'm

1591
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:55,479
telling you, stinks to high heaven. How does a guy

1592
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:02,640
who writes about abortion and apparently, in his other job

1593
01:53:03,399 --> 01:53:09,920
was the key lobbyist for the anti abortion group. How

1594
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:15,079
does a guy that is an expert in well, let's

1595
01:53:15,079 --> 01:53:18,720
just face it, taking women's rights away. How does this

1596
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:26,079
person knows so much in such detail, down to frames

1597
01:53:26,159 --> 01:53:30,199
per second of a freaking camera in a secret missile

1598
01:53:30,279 --> 01:53:37,560
test from the nineteen sixties. Who fed this to Dean Johnson? Again,

1599
01:53:37,640 --> 01:53:40,680
this is my personal opinion. Was it doctor Sean Kirkpatrick?

1600
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:47,920
Was it, Susan? Go ask yourself that. I guarantee you, Douglas.

1601
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:51,119
Dean Johnson does not have data on the shelves from

1602
01:53:51,199 --> 01:53:55,680
any other missile test. I guarantee it. And he magically

1603
01:53:55,720 --> 01:53:58,279
came up with all of this data to write his

1604
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:02,640
whatever you want to call it. Uh, I don't even

1605
01:54:02,720 --> 01:54:04,199
want to Yeah, I can't even think of what to

1606
01:54:04,239 --> 01:54:07,439
call it. He wrote all that in thirty days, He

1607
01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:10,159
got all the Foyer stuff back, he came up with

1608
01:54:10,199 --> 01:54:17,359
this crazy concept. It's this whole thing about there's no

1609
01:54:17,399 --> 01:54:20,920
way Harold Momgraam could have couldn't have had a Q clearance.

1610
01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:24,720
And again I reach out to a former FBI agent

1611
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:28,800
that dealt with Q clearances, and this guy, basically said

1612
01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:31,439
Doug Johnson is full of shit when it comes to

1613
01:54:31,479 --> 01:54:35,720
this whole Q clearance thing. An FBI agent, former FBI

1614
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:40,680
agent that dealt with Q clearances, that knows all of

1615
01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:43,680
the security protocols, knows, you know, what it takes to

1616
01:54:44,359 --> 01:54:49,600
adjudicate it. And this former FBI agent, who again was

1617
01:54:49,680 --> 01:54:52,479
not a low level FBI agent at the time, he

1618
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:55,680
was in charge of a few of our nation's most

1619
01:54:55,840 --> 01:55:01,840
important investigations, says Douglas Deane Johnson, and has no idea

1620
01:55:02,439 --> 01:55:04,920
what he's talking about when it comes to this Q

1621
01:55:05,159 --> 01:55:08,960
clearance thing. Because again, if you can shoot the messenger,

1622
01:55:09,319 --> 01:55:12,760
if you can, if you can do anything to disparage

1623
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:19,439
a whistleblower, what happens. Congress may say to themselves, Well,

1624
01:55:20,039 --> 01:55:26,199
this Harold Momgrum guy, he's not who he's not who

1625
01:55:26,199 --> 01:55:33,479
he said he was. That's the purpose. Shoot the messenger,

1626
01:55:34,399 --> 01:55:39,319
throw whistleblowers under the bus, make the lawmakers in Congress

1627
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:44,680
question why they're doing this, make the American public question

1628
01:55:44,760 --> 01:55:50,079
why Congress is spending money on this shoot the messenger.

1629
01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:54,479
That's what it's about. You know. Another question, how did

1630
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:59,239
Doug Johnson get Harold Momgram's S eighty six in less

1631
01:55:59,279 --> 01:56:05,600
than thirty So you're telling me once again that a

1632
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:12,000
month after Jesse Michael's interview, he magically gets Harold Momgren's

1633
01:56:12,560 --> 01:56:16,680
S eighty six form in less than thirty days. Has

1634
01:56:16,720 --> 01:56:21,800
anyone asked Doug Johnson about the other sad six's Because

1635
01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:24,720
here's the thing. You have to fill that form out

1636
01:56:25,079 --> 01:56:32,359
multiple times for each new role. So the dozens upon

1637
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:38,920
dozens of roles that Harold Momnggren held in his esteemed career,

1638
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:43,880
a career in service to the United States of America,

1639
01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:49,680
had all of these roles, And you're telling me Douglas

1640
01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:54,119
Dean Johnson relies on only one S eighty six. Did

1641
01:56:54,159 --> 01:56:57,319
he not get the other S eighty six's? Did he?

1642
01:56:57,479 --> 01:57:01,760
Whoever his contact is that is magically funneling all this

1643
01:57:02,159 --> 01:57:06,479
these Foyer requests, fast tracking, these Fourier requests, and a

1644
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:10,760
single less eighty six in less than thirty days. Seriously,

1645
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:17,439
no intelligence official. And this is essentially what this former

1646
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:22,479
FBI agent said, This FBI agent that a former FBI

1647
01:57:22,560 --> 01:57:26,119
agent that Dean Johnson said to me, maybe I'm making

1648
01:57:26,159 --> 01:57:32,479
this up. I mean, go figure again. Yeah, it's insane.

1649
01:57:32,680 --> 01:57:36,399
No intelligence official you can take this to the bank.

1650
01:57:36,520 --> 01:57:42,560
No intelligence official wouldever put clearances of that nature on

1651
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:47,279
an S eighty six. Despite what Douglas Dean Johnson says,

1652
01:57:47,279 --> 01:57:53,479
and is absolutely ridiculous paper or stories or whatever you

1653
01:57:53,479 --> 01:58:00,560
want to call it. People didn't do that. A former

1654
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:04,520
FBI agent that dealt with Q clearances said exactly that

1655
01:58:06,359 --> 01:58:10,319
there are different rules for regular people versus high level

1656
01:58:10,319 --> 01:58:14,239
folks like Momgrem. And remember the whole purpose of the

1657
01:58:14,359 --> 01:58:18,119
Rand Corporation and their Institute for Defense Analysis. It was

1658
01:58:18,239 --> 01:58:23,760
set up to shield senior people from outside scrutiny. Harold

1659
01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:30,039
Momgren was in both in nineteen sixty three. And I

1660
01:58:30,039 --> 01:58:32,640
have to point out once again the interview that we

1661
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:36,039
just aired with Jeff Krukshank. That interview was recorded a

1662
01:58:36,079 --> 01:58:40,079
few weeks ago, and at that time Jeff had sent

1663
01:58:40,399 --> 01:58:47,319
his forty paide rebuttal to the Dean Johnson character and

1664
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:51,479
was a week prior to this interview, and he still

1665
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:54,640
had not received a response. So all these weeks later,

1666
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:58,680
Jeff has not received a rebuttal or response to his

1667
01:58:59,119 --> 01:59:03,399
forty pay of evidence that clearly show in my view

1668
01:59:03,560 --> 01:59:09,399
that Dean's article is flawed. I mean, come on, that

1669
01:59:09,560 --> 01:59:15,279
totally stinks to high heaven. Now Here is my personal

1670
01:59:15,640 --> 01:59:20,159
personal take, my personal guess of what has been going

1671
01:59:20,199 --> 01:59:22,960
on this his opinion, I don't know this for fact.

1672
01:59:23,680 --> 01:59:28,600
My personal opinion, Doug Johnson is just a tool. He's

1673
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:33,039
a front person, a hype man. Someone is probably feeding

1674
01:59:33,079 --> 01:59:35,439
him this stuff. When you again, when you look at

1675
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:40,439
the thirty days that all of a sudden, all this magic,

1676
01:59:41,159 --> 01:59:45,840
this magic information just shows up on his doorstep thirty

1677
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:49,720
days when it takes people with FOYA years to get

1678
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:52,600
this stuff, and Doug Johnson, I don't know who who

1679
01:59:52,880 --> 01:59:56,439
what frenzy has in high places, if it's Susan Goff

1680
01:59:56,560 --> 02:00:00,239
or a former director of Errold, doctor Sean Kirkpatrick. In

1681
02:00:00,279 --> 02:00:04,920
my opinion, he was He's just a front man. My opinion,

1682
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:10,199
Doug Johnson is just a tool. That's it. So yeah,

1683
02:00:10,239 --> 02:00:13,640
that's that's my personal theory. And and another one of

1684
02:00:13,640 --> 02:00:18,600
my personal theories regarding really kind of the overview of

1685
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:23,439
this whole UAP disclosure issue. In my view, there there

1686
02:00:23,479 --> 02:00:28,399
are really three distinct camps. There is the camp that

1687
02:00:28,479 --> 02:00:32,239
we all have known about for decades. This this camp

1688
02:00:32,279 --> 02:00:36,159
that says there's nothing to see here. It's swamp gas

1689
02:00:36,199 --> 02:00:42,239
at seagulls, it's uh, you know whatever, it's drones or whatnot.

1690
02:00:42,720 --> 02:00:46,640
You've got that old camp that doesn't want any of

1691
02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:52,439
this out period the end. Then you've got the camp

1692
02:00:52,680 --> 02:00:55,960
where I think you could put uh the bucket you

1693
02:00:55,960 --> 02:00:59,640
could put in this bucket, uh Loue Elizondo and whistleblower

1694
02:00:59,680 --> 02:01:04,479
David Rush who want all of this out. They want

1695
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:07,840
to open the full kimono. They want to say, Okay,

1696
02:01:07,920 --> 02:01:11,159
we've recovered craft of non human origin, We've had a

1697
02:01:11,279 --> 02:01:15,279
programmed to reverse engineer this stuff. And oh, by the way,

1698
02:01:15,800 --> 02:01:20,760
our government has really done some well not quite legal things,

1699
02:01:21,119 --> 02:01:28,680
perhaps retaliation against whistleblowers, perhaps targeted killings of whistleblowers. But

1700
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:33,199
they're of this opinion. You know what, this is what

1701
02:01:33,239 --> 02:01:36,359
it is. These were the decisions that were made at

1702
02:01:36,359 --> 02:01:39,600
the time. We made some bad decisions as a country.

1703
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:43,960
Every country makes bad decisions. People make bad decisions. They

1704
02:01:44,079 --> 02:01:47,520
make decisions based on the information they had at the time.

1705
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:50,319
They made decisions in the height of the Cold War,

1706
02:01:50,920 --> 02:01:53,640
and this is what we did. We're pulling off the band.

1707
02:01:53,680 --> 02:01:58,079
AID want everybody to know, and the belief there is

1708
02:01:58,119 --> 02:02:03,560
that that is the quickest way to reconciliation of the

1709
02:02:03,600 --> 02:02:07,399
American public. Just come clean. This is what happened, this

1710
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:10,840
is why we hit it, this is why we retaliated

1711
02:02:10,880 --> 02:02:13,000
to keep this thing under wraps. This is why we

1712
02:02:13,079 --> 02:02:16,520
threatened people because we didn't want this getting out into

1713
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:24,319
the public discourse and panicking everyone. There were probably good reasons. Now,

1714
02:02:24,359 --> 02:02:28,840
were there good reasons in terms of physically retaliating against people. No,

1715
02:02:29,359 --> 02:02:31,600
And in my opinion, those people should go to jail.

1716
02:02:32,199 --> 02:02:35,520
So you've got the people that says there's nothing to it.

1717
02:02:35,960 --> 02:02:40,119
You've got the people in the middle that have seen

1718
02:02:40,279 --> 02:02:44,279
all the classified evidence, they were part of classified briefings,

1719
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,479
people like David Gresh, louel Is onto on others that

1720
02:02:48,439 --> 02:02:51,159
say let's open the kimono, let's just be done with

1721
02:02:51,239 --> 02:02:54,439
it and move on. But then you got a third group,

1722
02:02:55,720 --> 02:03:00,199
and in my opinion, folks like Douglas Stein, Johnson and

1723
02:03:00,199 --> 02:03:05,439
the others fall into this third group. And that third

1724
02:03:05,479 --> 02:03:11,079
group is, yes, there's something in the sky, Yes we

1725
02:03:11,159 --> 02:03:14,880
don't know where it is, but let's not talk about

1726
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:17,039
all this stuff in the rear view mirror. Let's not

1727
02:03:17,319 --> 02:03:20,600
let's not talk about the legacy crash retrieval program. Let's

1728
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:23,920
let's not talk about some of the dirty things our

1729
02:03:23,960 --> 02:03:27,159
country has done to keep it hidden. Let's not talk

1730
02:03:27,199 --> 02:03:31,560
about that. We have sensor systems that already track this

1731
02:03:31,640 --> 02:03:34,079
stuff and can tell when it crashes so that they

1732
02:03:34,079 --> 02:03:36,479
can go recover it. Let's not talk about any of

1733
02:03:36,479 --> 02:03:39,479
that stuff. Who else is in that bucket you have?

1734
02:03:40,159 --> 02:03:45,960
You have Arrow, You've got, You've got basically this, this, this,

1735
02:03:45,960 --> 02:03:49,079
this narrative and out of the Pentagon, out of Arrow

1736
02:03:49,119 --> 02:03:52,319
that ooh, what's all this new stuff flying around in

1737
02:03:52,359 --> 02:03:55,079
our skies? We got to get to the bottom of this.

1738
02:03:55,520 --> 02:03:58,439
We need the public's help. We need to spend some

1739
02:03:58,479 --> 02:04:02,760
more money on some new sense and we're gonna have

1740
02:04:03,079 --> 02:04:05,319
send some more money to Arrow. We're gonna find some

1741
02:04:05,399 --> 02:04:09,640
new sensors. We're gonna enlist the public to help us

1742
02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:12,800
figure out what all this new stuff is flying around

1743
02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:16,079
in our skies. We need to get to the bottom

1744
02:04:16,119 --> 02:04:21,159
of this. All these drones flying around over our nuclear

1745
02:04:21,199 --> 02:04:24,399
missile facilities and whatever. This is all new. We've never

1746
02:04:24,439 --> 02:04:27,920
seen this before. We need more money, We need more sensors.

1747
02:04:28,159 --> 02:04:30,439
We need to figure this out with the public's help.

1748
02:04:30,680 --> 02:04:32,680
We want to get to the bottom of it just

1749
02:04:32,760 --> 02:04:36,680
as bad as you do at home. They don't want

1750
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:39,119
you at home. They don't want members of Congress, and

1751
02:04:39,119 --> 02:04:41,880
we know members of Congress watch this show and their staffers.

1752
02:04:42,319 --> 02:04:45,239
They don't want all of you on Capitol Hill looking

1753
02:04:45,319 --> 02:04:47,760
in the rear view mirror. They don't want all of

1754
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:52,119
you on Capitol Hill looking back and asking, hey, how

1755
02:04:52,119 --> 02:04:55,680
many billions of dollars maybe a trillion trillion or so

1756
02:04:56,319 --> 02:04:59,840
has our government spent of tax payer money to look

1757
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:02,359
at into this stuff. And by the way, we hit

1758
02:05:02,399 --> 02:05:04,439
it from all of you in Congress so that you

1759
02:05:04,479 --> 02:05:07,800
couldn't get your fingers on it or interfere with it.

1760
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:13,359
This third group, they do not want you looking back.

1761
02:05:13,680 --> 02:05:17,319
That's that's really what it's about. They know it's going

1762
02:05:17,399 --> 02:05:19,640
to come out. They know that it's going to come out.

1763
02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:21,920
Stuff's here and flying around in our skies and we

1764
02:05:21,920 --> 02:05:25,039
don't know where it's from. But they don't want you

1765
02:05:25,359 --> 02:05:30,600
looking backwards. They want you looking in the present into

1766
02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:35,439
the future. In my opinion, it's because there are a

1767
02:05:35,439 --> 02:05:39,439
lot of people that have Fifth Amendment concerns, People that

1768
02:05:39,560 --> 02:05:42,439
when this stuff comes out have a pretty damn good

1769
02:05:42,479 --> 02:05:45,640
chance of ending up in jail. So the best way

1770
02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:49,159
to avoid all of that, avoid having egg on the

1771
02:05:49,159 --> 02:05:52,720
face of the United States Government, the Pentagon, the Intelligence community,

1772
02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:56,239
and the Department of Energy and the National Security Agency,

1773
02:05:56,720 --> 02:06:00,960
is to only look forward. It's the game that they

1774
02:06:00,960 --> 02:06:06,760
are playing. And finally, I'll say this for all the

1775
02:06:06,760 --> 02:06:10,159
members of Congress or staffers that are watching this show.

1776
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:16,680
The third rail, the third rail the Pentagon does not

1777
02:06:16,920 --> 02:06:23,560
want you looking into, is the fact that UAP UFOs

1778
02:06:23,680 --> 02:06:27,439
whatever you want to call them, have been tampering with

1779
02:06:27,560 --> 02:06:32,199
our strategic nuclear deterrent. This has been going on a

1780
02:06:32,640 --> 02:06:41,560
very long time. UAPs disabling entire flights of ten nuclear

1781
02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:48,840
tip ICBM missiles in multiple squadrons. UAP not only disabling them,

1782
02:06:49,279 --> 02:06:53,640
putting them into a into a launch sequence where the

1783
02:06:54,439 --> 02:06:58,119
where the folks, the people like Robert sallis below ground

1784
02:06:58,239 --> 02:07:00,479
have to flip an inhibit switch to make sure that

1785
02:07:00,520 --> 02:07:03,960
these things don't launch. The other thing they don't want

1786
02:07:04,000 --> 02:07:07,000
you to know is there is a history of UAP

1787
02:07:07,479 --> 02:07:12,960
retargeting the warheads in the ICBMs. Let me say this again,

1788
02:07:13,239 --> 02:07:17,800
there is a history of UAP retargeting the nuclear warheads

1789
02:07:17,840 --> 02:07:23,079
in our intercontinental ballistic missiles. Members of Congress, they do

1790
02:07:23,159 --> 02:07:27,000
not want you looking into that. That is what you

1791
02:07:27,039 --> 02:07:32,079
should be looking into. What you need to be looking into, respectfully,

1792
02:07:32,560 --> 02:07:36,399
is asking from the United States Air Force, and that

1793
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:41,479
the national non disclosure agreements that the Office the Air

1794
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:45,800
Force Office of Special Investigation forced these Air Force personnel

1795
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:51,239
to sign when they had these UAP nuclear incidents. That's

1796
02:07:51,239 --> 02:07:53,840
where the that's where the gold's at. That's that's the

1797
02:07:53,880 --> 02:07:56,079
pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Because

1798
02:07:56,079 --> 02:07:59,720
I guarantee to you when you find those reports, it's

1799
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:03,600
going to blow it all open. You're gonna find out

1800
02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:06,840
exactly the dirty things United States Air Force has been

1801
02:08:06,920 --> 02:08:09,640
up to with this subject. They do not want you

1802
02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:14,520
to know that the crown jewel of the United States

1803
02:08:14,560 --> 02:08:20,680
of America, our strategic nuclear deterrent, is vulnerable to whatever

1804
02:08:20,720 --> 02:08:23,199
this is. I have no idea where it's from. They

1805
02:08:23,199 --> 02:08:26,880
do not want you to know that that continues to

1806
02:08:26,920 --> 02:08:32,880
this day with the minute Man three intercontinental ballistic missile platform.

1807
02:08:33,199 --> 02:08:35,479
They do not want you to know that this is

1808
02:08:35,479 --> 02:08:39,359
apparently also happening with our sea launched ballistic missiles, the

1809
02:08:39,439 --> 02:08:44,399
Trident two on our Ohio class ballistic missile submarines, that

1810
02:08:44,439 --> 02:08:48,239
there have been incidents of UAP tampering with those nuclear

1811
02:08:48,279 --> 02:08:52,439
weapons under the under the oceans. They don't want you

1812
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:55,520
asking that, and that is why they want this to

1813
02:08:55,600 --> 02:09:00,039
go away. That is why you've got stories like this,

1814
02:09:00,600 --> 02:09:02,920
in my opinion, from Dean Johnson and the Wall Street

1815
02:09:02,960 --> 02:09:06,840
Journal wanting to throw cold water on this nuclear angle

1816
02:09:08,600 --> 02:09:11,439
and are going to throw cold water. The Pentagon's gonna

1817
02:09:11,439 --> 02:09:14,359
throw cold water on this. It doesn't matter what the

1818
02:09:14,359 --> 02:09:20,199
collateral damage is in terms of people's reputations, and what

1819
02:09:20,239 --> 02:09:24,399
this really is is an affront to every American voter

1820
02:09:26,319 --> 02:09:30,760
and moreover, an affront to every American veteran that has

1821
02:09:30,800 --> 02:09:34,159
worn the uniform, every man and woman who has warned

1822
02:09:34,199 --> 02:09:39,319
the uniform or served our country with distinction, such as

1823
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:45,399
the late Great Harold Momgren. When when you have these

1824
02:09:45,720 --> 02:09:54,239
hit pieces, these things that are designed to discredit these whistleblowers,

1825
02:09:54,279 --> 02:09:56,560
are these people that are going on the record about this,

1826
02:09:57,840 --> 02:10:01,399
it is literally the United State States government giving the

1827
02:10:01,439 --> 02:10:05,399
middle finger to anyone that has served this country and

1828
02:10:05,479 --> 02:10:08,439
has dealt with this UAP issue as part of their portfolio.

1829
02:10:09,439 --> 02:10:14,199
It's disgusting, it's wrong, and I hope that every member

1830
02:10:14,199 --> 02:10:17,600
of Congress or the staffer that is watching this will

1831
02:10:17,680 --> 02:10:21,319
take that into account and hold these people accountable. You

1832
02:10:21,399 --> 02:10:26,479
cannot have a functional democracy when you've got the Pentagon

1833
02:10:28,039 --> 02:10:33,800
literally engaged in a disinformation operation against the US public.

1834
02:10:33,920 --> 02:10:37,760
I forgot the executive order, but it's it is illegal.

1835
02:10:37,920 --> 02:10:42,079
It is not supposed to be happening. However, the workaround is,

1836
02:10:42,159 --> 02:10:46,319
you can't have a disinformation that the Pentagon Public Affairs

1837
02:10:46,359 --> 02:10:49,640
Office or whatever ode and I can run an op

1838
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:56,000
that targets let's say, let's just say they can run

1839
02:10:56,039 --> 02:11:00,960
an operation that sends out a disinformation regarding up and

1840
02:11:01,119 --> 02:11:07,640
the target country is France or Iran or Erat. But

1841
02:11:08,800 --> 02:11:13,640
as in the information age, what you send disinformation wise

1842
02:11:13,680 --> 02:11:17,520
over to countries across the pond, the American public is

1843
02:11:17,560 --> 02:11:20,680
going to consume it as well. That's how, in my view,

1844
02:11:20,720 --> 02:11:25,079
they probably get around this executive order that prohibits these

1845
02:11:25,199 --> 02:11:31,279
kinds of disinformation activities. We also know from our history,

1846
02:11:31,560 --> 02:11:36,399
going back to the Church Committee, that our intelligence community

1847
02:11:36,520 --> 02:11:39,399
back during the Cold War in the fifties and sixties

1848
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:48,640
had on the payroll members of the press, editors of newspapers.

1849
02:11:49,199 --> 02:11:52,319
It wasn't specifically related to UAP that we know of.

1850
02:11:52,960 --> 02:11:57,359
But essentially what happened was our government during the Cold War,

1851
02:11:58,399 --> 02:12:05,399
either financially compt stated through CIA cutouts, or through sort

1852
02:12:05,439 --> 02:12:08,640
of backscratching. In other words, if you're a reporter for

1853
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:11,560
the New York Times and you want to have a

1854
02:12:11,800 --> 02:12:15,439
interview during the Vietnam War with the Secretary of Defense,

1855
02:12:15,640 --> 02:12:20,279
we need you to write an article that really puts

1856
02:12:20,279 --> 02:12:25,399
forward the Pentagon's public facing view on communism. So they

1857
02:12:25,520 --> 02:12:31,159
had these, they had these, they have these relationships, and

1858
02:12:31,199 --> 02:12:35,119
all of that came out in the Church Committee back

1859
02:12:35,159 --> 02:12:37,720
in I think nineteen seventy two or nineteen seventy three.

1860
02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:41,600
But again, there is a history of the Pentagon and

1861
02:12:41,640 --> 02:12:46,439
the intelligence community paying people to write articles, paying people

1862
02:12:46,680 --> 02:12:51,560
to go on television to spread this information. It's a

1863
02:12:51,640 --> 02:12:55,840
communications it's a comms strategy that has been used in

1864
02:12:55,880 --> 02:12:59,159
the past. So you know, Members of Congress, all I

1865
02:12:59,159 --> 02:13:02,079
can say is when you read read this kind of stuff,

1866
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:06,920
that sure seems kind of odd how much time they're

1867
02:13:07,159 --> 02:13:11,760
they're spending on a debunking U A p S. You

1868
02:13:11,800 --> 02:13:17,560
got to ask why, And I I don't know it

1869
02:13:17,720 --> 02:13:20,079
is it makes no sense to me. And again the

1870
02:13:20,079 --> 02:13:23,600
analogy I use time and time again is if if

1871
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:26,960
someone out there believes Chewbacca is real and as a

1872
02:13:27,479 --> 02:13:31,600
wookies are real, and they get on Twitter, they write articles,

1873
02:13:31,720 --> 02:13:35,479
or they they put stuff on their on their their

1874
02:13:35,800 --> 02:13:40,359
personal web pages saying that wookies are real, I'd be like, Okay, cool,

1875
02:13:40,439 --> 02:13:43,399
knock yourself out. I don't think wookies are real, but

1876
02:13:43,479 --> 02:13:46,359
if you do, I'm I'm not going to spend all

1877
02:13:46,439 --> 02:13:48,800
day writing articles to counter it. I'm not going to

1878
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:54,000
spend all my time on Twitter writing trying to debunk uh,

1879
02:13:54,479 --> 02:13:58,319
that Chewbacca is real. It just makes no sense. People's

1880
02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:02,560
time on this earth is the most the most valuable

1881
02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:06,560
commodity a human being has, and while these folks are

1882
02:14:06,600 --> 02:14:10,439
spending all of this time debunking something that they don't

1883
02:14:10,479 --> 02:14:14,359
think is real, it you have to you have to,

1884
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:17,880
you have to wonder. Anyway, folks, I really appreciate everybody

1885
02:14:18,039 --> 02:14:22,199
tuning in today. We'll have another great it's another great

1886
02:14:22,239 --> 02:14:25,560
interview smarting tongue tied today. Another great interview coming up

1887
02:14:25,600 --> 02:14:28,600
for you guys next week. And uh and if you

1888
02:14:28,600 --> 02:14:31,760
want to see another great interview from The Good Trouble Show,

1889
02:14:32,239 --> 02:14:33,359
just click write