WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:12.080 So, uh, how long ago? Was this a couple of months? 2 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:14.480 I can't remember. We were hanging out here. 3 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:17.000 At the old tim Cashiers right before the show, and 4 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:20.519 I'd made a comment about fertility rates being low but 5 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.600 among conservatives still around like one point eight, to which 6 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:26.800 I think it was Phil Lebanti responded that Catholics have 7 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:29.879 a higher than replacement rate fertility at like two point four, 8 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:32.200 and then I was like, is that true? And Mary 9 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:33.719 Morgan was also on the show, and then I think 10 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.560 she mentioned something about divorce rates are also really low, 11 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:40.079 and then I jokingly said Catholics are the superior Christians, 12 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:43.439 and to which everyone chuckled, and I antagonistically said should 13 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:46.079 I tweet that? Because I just knew it cause a storm, 14 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:48.240 you know, ish storm, and then Mary and Phil both 15 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:50.280 said yes, and I was like, okay, so I did. 16 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:51.479 And here we are. 17 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:53.640 Now do I have the uh, we don't have the 18 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:54.840 oh I can pull well whatever, we don't have the 19 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:56.759 people to do. But now we actually we're actually gonna 20 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.439 have that debate because admittedly I am a lapsed ethleic. 21 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.159 I was ten years old and my family left the church, 22 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:05.480 so what do I know? So I brought in a 23 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:10.040 handful of gentlemen to have this conversation and have this 24 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.400 debate over the religion the denomination. 25 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:14.439 Sir, would you like to introduce yourself first? 26 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.760 Yeah, Jay Dyer, I host the Alex Jones Show, have 27 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.079 done that for the last five years right for the 28 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:24.159 Sam Hide Show doing comedy. I've debated all the top 29 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.560 atheist Muslims that are out there and looking forward to. 30 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:28.400 This one right on. 31 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:31.920 I'm Aiden Mattis. I'm the host of the lore Lodge, 32 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:35.200 The Weird Bible and History Unhinged on YouTube, and I 33 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:37.079 have not debated all that many people, so this is 34 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:38.200 going to be an interesting day for me. 35 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.400 I'm Timothy Gordon. I'm the representative of the superior religion 36 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:47.319 here today. You know me from YouTube. Rules for Introgrades 37 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:48.599 is the name of the show. I'm the author of 38 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.480 five books and I'm excited to defend. 39 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:56.719 Your position that you meant totally literally today. Can we 40 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:57.519 just end with that? 41 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.280 So well, I'll start with why it's not the superior legit. 42 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:01.159 Who wants to go first? 43 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:04.760 I'll go first. So I used to be Catholic? 44 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:06.480 Where are you now? 45 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:10.360 Orthodox? Been Orthodox for the past eight years? Orthox Christians. 46 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.599 So I think there's some key things that stand out 47 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:18.360 as the reason why Catholicism is not superior. One would 48 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:22.439 be the contradictions that I think have occurred in Catholic dogma, 49 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.000 particularly after the first millennium. You have the notion that 50 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:28.960 the temporal supremacy of the Roman bishop is necessary for 51 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.919 salvation from the time of Dictatus Pope in ten ninety 52 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:34.479 all the way up to thirteen oh two when I'm 53 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.599 sunk them. So you have to believe that the pope 54 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:40.759 has basically Quiza's hotterog type status. He's the world emperor, 55 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:43.680 and if you don't believe that, you will lose your salvation. 56 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:47.039 So that was clear dogma in the Middle Ages. Nowadays, 57 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:48.960 post Vatican Two, when we go to the documents of 58 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.800 Vatican two, that is no longer even mentioned. In fact, 59 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.000 it's de emphasized, and in fact many of the Vatican 60 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:58.639 two popes have called for the decatholicizing of various Christian states. 61 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:02.240 So one would be that there's a contradiction there the 62 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.960 relationship with the Church to the other religions. For example, 63 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.120 in the Middle Ages you have the condemnation of Muslims 64 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.120 at the Council of n As the abominable sect of Muhammet. Nowadays, 65 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:17.280 post Vatican two, post Acumenism post notes rotate, which are 66 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:22.159 Vatican two documents. Not only is Islam a selvific religion. 67 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.159 We can actually go and pray in the mosques towards Mecca, 68 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.039 which the last several popes have done, exemplifying their faith 69 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:33.520 that they can't know. There's also the Abu Dhabi Faith 70 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:35.719 Center which has been built now and I'm sure Tim's 71 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:37.560 going to take issue with whether you actually can. But 72 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.680 the Vatican two documents actually do promote, especially the Vatican 73 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.639 two Acumenist documents, the notion that we can participate with 74 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:50.960 and engage in inter religious faith ceremonies and dialogue, which 75 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.919 is in direct contradiction to Mortalium animos in nineteen twenty 76 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:56.759 nine from Piss eleventh, which says that to do so 77 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.319 is quote the surrendering of the faith. So these are 78 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.759 a couple contradictions. There's many more than death penalty has 79 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:08.439 recently been changed according to Catholic Catechism. Now according to 80 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:10.919 Pote Francis, it is quote contrary to the Gospel. If 81 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:12.919 you go back to the Catechism of Trent, it was 82 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.919 said to be part of natural justice or natural law. 83 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.120 So certainly nobody would believe that the papacy can change 84 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:20.240 or alter natural law. 85 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.360 But is the implication then that the Orthodox Church is static, 86 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:25.160 it doesn't change. 87 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:28.040 Yes, we would argue that the first thousand years of Christianity, 88 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.160 as you look at it from the Council's perspective and 89 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.199 the canon law and the church father's teachings, that the 90 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.000 Orthodox Church is absolutely synonymous. 91 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:36.120 With that church. 92 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:38.600 So it's exactly the same as the first thousand years 93 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.040 of Christianity Rome and the papacies. What has departed, particularly 94 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:43.519 in the eleven, twelve thirteenth centuries. 95 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.680 What about you? You're what denomination are you? 96 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.160 So I have been a Methodist for many years. I 97 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:52.560 have recently began inquiring into the Anglican Catholic Church, which 98 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:54.759 is not the Anglican churches in the Church of England, 99 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:56.720 nor is it the Episcopal Church and actually split off 100 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.079 from that, and I want to say nineteen seventy eight 101 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:03.000 with Episcopal Church's decision to begin ordaining women. So it 102 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:06.800 is a conservative Anglican theology. And to be perfectly honest, 103 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:09.959 I don't really disagree with much of what Jay just said. 104 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:15.079 Our church largely does tie itself back to the pre 105 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.920 twelfth century Christian Church tries to emulate that. And that's 106 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.120 kind of the position of the Anglican Catholic Church is 107 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.399 we are not the one true Church. We are not 108 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:30.079 the perfect representation of Christianity. We are doing our best 109 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:34.759 to retain Christianity prior to councils like the Council of 110 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.759 Trent that we felt changed the religion too much. So, 111 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.600 like Jay said, it's very much the eleventh century and 112 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.279 back is what we consider to be the unified Church. 113 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:49.120 I have a question, but I'm gonna wait until you 114 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:50.439 can set your position on Catholicism. 115 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:55.279 Great Catholicism is the one true Church. 116 00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:00.079 We make this claim based on many premises, but the 117 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.279 first ones are this indefectibility. 118 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:06.399 The Church can never defect. It won't affect. 119 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.399 Our Lord promised that when the spirit of truth comes 120 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:13.040 in scripture, he'll guide you into all truth. In John's Gospel, 121 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.720 Gates of Hell won't prevail against the Church of Matthew's 122 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:16.959 Gospel and Firs. 123 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:17.519 Timothy. 124 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:19.480 The Church of the Living God is the pillar and 125 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:23.680 bulwark of truth. And therefore our Lord is a liar. 126 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.319 If there is some change and you know, this is 127 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:29.920 a little bit funny because what I'm going to be 128 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.560 doing is talking about super specific church terms religion terms 129 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:38.720 with Jay today, and then we'll be talking about more 130 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:44.040 broad things, because really Protestantism isn't technically a religion, it's 131 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:46.319 a faith. But we can talk about things like the 132 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:50.399 ecumenical councils, the first seven ecumenical councils, about which Orthodox 133 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:54.519 and Catholic agree in something like four of these first 134 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:55.680 four ecumenical councils. 135 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:57.040 I'll read you chapter in verse. 136 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:00.519 But so Orthodox, the Orthodox has a the you of 137 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.639 the Pope, which is the church's view, the church's second 138 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.920 millennium view of the pope, and the Orthodox defected on this. 139 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:14.800 Now Protestants defected. They represent the soul of defectibility. Indefectibility 140 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:18.360 means that nothing's going to change. Protestants are are religion 141 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:21.360 that sprang forth from the earth like Athena from Zeus's 142 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.560 head in the sixteenth century. It's it's proto Enlightenment, abstract 143 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:31.240 rationalism that's vaguely pro Jesus. But Orthodox Catholic debates are 144 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.600 are more specific because we have to talk about what 145 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:38.920 the at the very least the first seven ecumenical councils 146 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:42.480 require and the first second ecumenical councils about which Jay 147 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.199 and I agree. If you go to like number three, 148 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:50.240 Ephesus involves the Patriarch of Constantinople, the highest guy in 149 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:57.759 their second millennium church, being fired by being requested to 150 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:02.079 be fired by other Eastern Orthodox guys like Cyril of Alexandria. 151 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:04.920 He writes the Pope and he says, can you excommunicate 152 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.959 the Patriarch of Constantinople. Thestory is because he's saying this absurdism, 153 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:14.120 like like unto what many Protestants say today that marries 154 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.959 the Mother of Jesus but not God, and so kind 155 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:20.480 of like Dwight Schrut says in the office, if you 156 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.759 are the guy that can, that's actually boss, you can 157 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:23.480 make a firing. 158 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.120 And tons upon tons upon tons. 159 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:31.240 Of first millennium Eastern thinkers from the Eastern lung of 160 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.399 the Church associated with Orthodoxy, but also Catholic saints like 161 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.919 you know, the Cappadocian Fathers, all the Gregory's say, Bowsel 162 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.799 the Great. They acknowledge the unity, the visible sign of 163 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:48.600 unity that is represented on earth by the Pope and 164 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:51.519 the headship of the Pope. Just tons upon tons of 165 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:54.320 these guys, and tons upon tons of the councils also 166 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:59.799 Nicea two, Constantinople, three, Constantinople four. We kind of disagree 167 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:02.240 with it about it, and even the union of Florence 168 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:04.799 at the Council of Florence, which is an ecumenical council. 169 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.919 It was called by an emperor. Well, a lot of 170 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:08.720 people don't know this. 171 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.240 We had a reunification of the Catholic in the Orthodox churches, 172 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.919 and it was a legit unification. Thirty one out of 173 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:19.360 thirty three bishops in whatever it was, fourteen thirty nine 174 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.440 of the Orthodox came and voted for unification, including the 175 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:27.600 patriarch of Constantinople, and then they went home and essentially 176 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:32.120 they were strong armed into nullifying the unification. 177 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:35.000 So let's try and simplify as much as we can 178 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:36.399 real quick to make this point. Like I do, I 179 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.480 do have a question, but is the Orthodox argument is 180 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:41.879 you want to stay true to the original view of 181 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.200 scripture and what it dictates, and is the Catholic view 182 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:51.879 that it can be updated and changed by the political 183 00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:52.960 structures of the religion. 184 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.200 Absolutely not, I would say, I would say you have 185 00:09:55.240 --> 00:10:00.799 that reverse the Orthodox always being centered in Constantinople, were 186 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:04.480 close to the emperor. The first thing Constantine did you 187 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:07.240 know after he legalized Christianity with the Edict of Milan, 188 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.279 is he moved the capital from Rome to Constantinople. He 189 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.440 named the city after himself, which is a badass move, 190 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:17.600 chad mu and is tim city Constantine city. And so 191 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:21.600 the Orthodox over the remainder of the first Christian millennium, 192 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:26.080 they had the patriarch of Constantinople who would be elevated 193 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.240 to the second most powerful under Rome eventually, and they 194 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.879 always had they were next to the emperor, and so 195 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.679 they were always alongside the emperor. And of course there's 196 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:42.200 multiple Orthodox churches, so they don't even agree on things 197 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.519 like whether they can't be one because they can't be 198 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:47.039 true to the Gospel, because they don't agree on things 199 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:49.799 like whether you can have divorce, whether you can have contraception. 200 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:54.279 Whereas the Roman Catholic Church, under the single you know, 201 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:59.159 sign of unity, the pope, which everybody hates, they are 202 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:03.360 kept together. And the second millennium Catholic view of the 203 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.120 pope is exactly what the first. 204 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:06.080 Millennial review of the pope was. 205 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:11.600 But Rittinger emits it's not so that he was a lefty. 206 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:14.039 Again, I'm not, you know, I don't follow any of 207 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.159 the organized religions or anything like that. But real quick, 208 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:20.120 I'm just the reason I asked the question is different 209 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:23.240 popes have had different positions on cultural issues. I think 210 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.240 you mentioned the death penalty just now, but there's also 211 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.279 questions of gay marriage and abortions. 212 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:34.799 Gave the lessons that are allowed in the Francis's and cyclical, 213 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:37.559 which was a change from the previous Congregation for the 214 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.639 Doctor of the Faith, which is basically the successor to 215 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.519 the Holy Office. 216 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:41.200 Yeah. 217 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.080 I mean, and I'm not trying to be rude to Tim, 218 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.120 but Tim didn't actually mention or address any of the 219 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.559 actual contradictions that I listed. He came up with a 220 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:51.200 list of sort of I would say, equivocations on the 221 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.960 way that different church fathers used the word head. Bazil 222 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.679 in his letters, for example, talks about the Bishop of 223 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.960 Antioch being the head of the whole body, the head 224 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.720 of the world because in his region it was the 225 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:04.919 chief see right, because he was dealing with the a 226 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:08.480 schism in Antioch. So this flowery language a lot of 227 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.519 times is used amongst many of the Church Fathers. You 228 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.039 have at the seventh the Commenical Council the phrase the 229 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.440 gates of Hell will not prevail against and then guess 230 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:18.159 what they use the Emperor. I don't think anybody believes 231 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.159 that Matthew sixteen is about the emperor. But we can 232 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:21.759 find in the acts of the councils, if you have, 233 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.240 like Prices, books and whatnot, multiple examples of the sort 234 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.360 of language this use. But that doesn't equate to the 235 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.360 idea of Vatican one. And like Temple said, not only 236 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.879 do you have changes in practice or practice, such as 237 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.159 the complete revolution in the most holy thing in the 238 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.600 Roman Catholic Church, the liturgy itself. You have a protestantization 239 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:45.440 after Vatican two, a liturgical revolution that's more important than 240 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:47.559 other types of issues. 241 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:49.159 Like you know, can we have the death penalty? 242 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:53.840 And I think for Roman Catholic theology, the liturgy itself 243 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:57.039 is more important. And the post Vatican two popes have 244 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.039 all enforced the. 245 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:00.639 Dogma of the New Mass. 246 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:04.000 In fact, Francis said in I Think twenty seventeen, I 247 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:05.960 have the reference if anyone wants to look and see. 248 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.399 But he said that the reforms of Vatican two are 249 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:14.600 dogmatic magisterial and irreformable. That means that you cannot reject 250 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.559 any of the things of Vatican two that you don't like, 251 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:18.480 even if you want to debate the status of them. 252 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:22.159 So not only have the morals and the ideas changed 253 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.080 and the dogma has changed, even the worship of God 254 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.000 has undergone a substantial Protestant change. 255 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.559 There's no dogma that's changed, there's zero dogmas that What 256 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.799 about what I'm sunk in the deposit of faith? Ununk 257 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.000 wait unam sanctum doesn't represent a dogmatic view? 258 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:39.639 What does that mean? 259 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.519 So necessary for salvation? 260 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.679 And what Nsinger is not the deposit what it's. 261 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.320 The collections of Catholic dogma. So it does include what 262 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.440 is the normative dogma? So how could you think is 263 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:57.639 unam sanctum is the thirteen oh two decree of Boniface 264 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.799 that to be saved, not only must you be in 265 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.919 co union with the Roman Pope, you must also accept 266 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.600 the Roman sees temporal supremacy, that he is queizots Hoterac, 267 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.120 the Roman bishop is the emperor of emperors. In fact, 268 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.120 all the same terminology that's used in the first statement 269 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.879 about this in Dictatus Pope in ten ninety is repeated 270 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.360 not only in When I'm Sanctum, but also all the 271 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.320 way into the eighteen hundreds into the Syllabus of Errors 272 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:26.320 attached to Vatican One. So you're telling me that from 273 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.559 the thirteen hundreds, from eleven hundred, thirteen hundred, all the 274 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.080 way up to Vatican One and the Syllabus of Errors, 275 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.600 all the rejection that they had of the proposition that 276 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.200 the churches in the state could be separate and that 277 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.399 you don't have to believe in the temporal supremacy. That 278 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:40.840 wasn't dogma, even though it was necessary for salvation. 279 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.320 Yeah. 280 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.320 Yeah, So what I would say to this is that 281 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.519 the contradictions which in here in the heart of Orthodox 282 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:54.039 Christianity tim are are are more are fundamental, and they're 283 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:55.600 literally going to address what I call her Is that 284 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:56.080 just too? 285 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:57.080 Yeah? 286 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:03.159 No, is this is really important because the so called tensions, contradictions, developments, 287 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:09.759 and things like uh, two swords theory are not at 288 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.600 the heart of what's considered doctrine. There's reformable doctrine and 289 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:15.679 the irreformable doctrine. 290 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:16.679 And what i'm doctrine? 291 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.480 What about Because we're looking at people that are are 292 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.480 Protestant we're talking to Orthodox. The most important thing for 293 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:26.919 the listeners out there is if there's a head of 294 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:30.600 the church, then if there's a meaningful head of the church, 295 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.000 then Roman Catholicism is true. And this so we have 296 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:37.000 to start at the beginning. Literally, it's not equivocation. This 297 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.879 is as direct as we can be. If there's a head, 298 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:42.559 and we should we should be specific. Let's let's be 299 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.600 specific to the actual councils about which we agree, and 300 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.000 that This is what Jay is going to be trying 301 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:51.039 to avoid today, is that the seven councils that they 302 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:55.559 accept defines what the pope is and the specific kind 303 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.279 of headship that the visible sign of unity on earth 304 00:15:58.320 --> 00:15:59.840 that they are. I'll read some to you in a 305 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.879 second from Emphasis from Nicia two from Constant Noble. 306 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:03.080 Three to four. 307 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.679 And if there's a pope that is a meaningful boss 308 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.799 that is appealed to with a kind of appellate supreme jurisdiction, 309 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.440 then Roman cathals is a mass to be true, because 310 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.519 it's the only one of the three sects that represents this. 311 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.759 So listen to what was said at Ephesus, signed onto 312 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.799 by the Orthodox Holy and Blessed Peter the Prince and 313 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.320 head of the Apostles, the column of Faith, the foundation 314 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.440 of the Catholic Church. The Prince of the Apostles received 315 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.120 the keys of the Kingdom of from our Lord Jesus Christ, 316 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.039 and that to him was given the power of binding 317 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.879 and loosing sins, who until this day and forever lives 318 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.000 and judges in his successors. Now, what happened leading to 319 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.200 the Third Ecumenical Council Ephesus is you have this guy 320 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.000 in Nestorius that's teaching falsely. He's the patriarch of Constantinople, 321 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.759 that that Mary was mother to human Jesus, but not 322 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.039 God Jesus dividing his natures. Lots of Protestants today say 323 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:57.840 this neither Orthodox nor Catholic. 324 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:06.400 Clust or lots of person, not the nature's right. 325 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.279 Sorry, yeah, dividing his person, not the nature. 326 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:13.000 So Cyril of Alexandria writes, the pope writes the boss 327 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.599 of the churches, or early early on, this is the 328 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.480 exact view of the papacy that the Roman Catholic Church has. Now, 329 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:21.839 it's a collegial first, but the Orthodox are going to 330 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.640 hit you with this idea that the pope was merely 331 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.480 the first among equals. This is one of those nonsense 332 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:30.720 terms that would mean like a roundtable where he's not 333 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.720 actually appealed to. He doesn't have a kind of appellate jurisdiction. 334 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.400 He would not be able to excommunicate any of the 335 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.240 other patriarchs. And so they they write to him, and 336 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.720 Cyril says, to the Pope, we rely on the authority 337 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.920 of the blessed Apostle Peter, on whom the church was founded, 338 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.200 and whose success of the Blessed Celestine, who his pope 339 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:49.799 at the time is. 340 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:51.359 He also says, your holiness. 341 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:53.279 Who holds the place of Peter, the Prince of the 342 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.200 Apostles has rightly judged this matter and condemned the stories. 343 00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:59.640 Now what Jay and the Orthodox have to say is 344 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:01.720 that it's merely honorary position. 345 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.480 But he could fire people well like you would tell me. 346 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:05.799 I can I address that up. 347 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.400 I just want to I want to cut I mean, 348 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.119 I think the term prince here is very important because prince. 349 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:12.640 A prince is not an emperor. A prince is not 350 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.960 a king. A prince is first citizen princeps That's what 351 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.240 the word meant, princess prerogative. Prerogative goes with sure, but 352 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:21.720 what what the orthoro appealing to his prerogative. What the 353 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:25.279 Orthodox position is and what the Protestant position is historically 354 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:29.680 is that the pope has primacy, he is first among equals. 355 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.559 That does not mean that he gets to unilaterally make 356 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.920 decisions in in an objection, in the objection to the 357 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:37.319 other pope. 358 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:39.759 Well, that that fault that runs vul of ephesis. I'll 359 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:41.680 read you and I see it too, after Jay says. 360 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.440 So I'll answer his claim from emphesis, and that the 361 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.839 idea of an appleate jurisdiction. 362 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:47.960 Everyone is well aware of this. 363 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.519 In fact, the Vatican itself has a great commentary on 364 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:55.119 the meaning of this appellate structure in the recent document 365 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.559 from Chi eighty, which is a Vaticant approved document on 366 00:18:57.640 --> 00:18:58.200 exactly what. 367 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.839 Was not authoritative, it's a proved document. 368 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.279 So this is what. This is what Rome nowadays says him. 369 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.240 Doesn't like what Rome says nowadays, but this is what 370 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.759 not dogmatic what It doesn't matter because this is what 371 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:09.799 Rome says nowadays, not a Church document. 372 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.160 It's dogmatical, dogmatic. 373 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.599 Your quote mind isn't dogmatic either, So allow me to 374 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:15.319 allow me to. 375 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:17.039 It is just real quick. This is one of the 376 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.440 most esoteric debates. 377 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.039 Ever, it's going to be there are even Christians of 378 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.039 each denomination been like, what are they talking about? 379 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.480 So what Rome nowadays says about this is that Sartica 380 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.920 was received at the Council of Trello. The Canons of 381 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.640 Sartica determined that a bishop who has been condemned can 382 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:33.880 appeal to the Bishop of Rome, and that the latter, 383 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.720 if he likes it or deems it appropriate, can order 384 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.480 a retrial. Notice it is not a unilateral statement, very 385 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.519 contrary to exact to the reading that you gave of it. 386 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:44.519 He can order a retrial to be conducted by the 387 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.039 bishops in the province neighboring that bishop. It is not 388 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.559 real room unilaterally deciding it totally contrary to the reading 389 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.559 that he gave of it. And then it says such 390 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.359 appeals it doesn't matter. Such appeals two major seeds were 391 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.599 always treated in a sonodal way. Appeals to the Bishop 392 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.000 of Rome from the East expressed the community of the church, 393 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.400 but the but Rome did not exercise canonical jurisdiction over 394 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:10.880 the churches of the East. So when Athenasius gets appeals 395 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.400 to excommunicate people, does that make athenacious The head of 396 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:14.759 the church. 397 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:16.279 Of course not that's eighties. 398 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.039 It doesn't matter because it's Rome's present statement on what 399 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:24.279 your church's tradition is. These are so this is what happens. 400 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:26.200 Pick and choose the documents that you don't like. So 401 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:30.799 this is Rome so more then the Roman theologians. Now, 402 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.319 because Rome actually says what I'm saying about apple jurisdiction, 403 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.480 I understand a retrial. Can you name a single scholar 404 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:42.000 that talks about this that doesn't have the giady of view? 405 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.279 Oh yeah, yeah, all of the scholars who aren't with community. 406 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:47.799 Yeah yeah, that is. 407 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:48.599 That is not one. 408 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:49.640 Let me name one. 409 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.920 Let me see, scholars aren't the mind of the church. 410 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.240 By the way, really, I'm talking about dogma. It hasn't changed. 411 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:58.039 I mean, like the three dogmas I listened to, Dogma 412 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.079 one is the contradiction those were in dogmas. 413 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.160 See it too, so was on the christ Book. 414 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.279 When I'm sicked, When I'm sicked them all the way 415 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.640 up until syllabus of errors is necessary for salvation And 416 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:11.039 it's not. 417 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.240 Dog But we're talking about the first seven councils. Let's 418 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:15.880 get to you talking about that. I'm the reason I'm 419 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.839 talking about it is because Jay, because well if the. 420 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:22.839 If the first seven councils didn't be with the current 421 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:23.720 position of the church. 422 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:26.599 But see the trick is that. So what we have 423 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:31.359 we have is quote my perio, you have thirty nine 424 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:35.960 thousand sec. Nine thousands. Okay, no we are there are 425 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:40.640 fourteen Auducephalus. There are fourteen Autocephalist churches. So the tensions 426 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.200 resides in for for we're autphalus fourteen. 427 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:45.400 Do you know where it comes where? 428 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:51.200 But so autocephalus churches what relatively unified with themselves? He 429 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.839 dates we have when you have a business back century, 430 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.519 when you have one holy Roman Catholic Church, the fore 431 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.880 marks of the church. This comes from nicea one. When 432 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.640 you have one, there's of course, this is what they're 433 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:06.079 playing on. It's a strong rhetorical position. Naturally, there's going 434 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:08.720 to be lots of disparity within the religion, and so 435 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:13.000 documents have to be ordered hierarchically. What's called the depositom fide, 436 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.920 what never changes in the church, best represented in real 437 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.960 time by something called the act of apostolic Ascetus is 438 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.640 something that is airtight. And there are tons and tons 439 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.400 of liberal scholars since Vatican two, since Vatican One that 440 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:31.160 present opinions that they alied on. Francis is probably the 441 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:33.720 worst pope we've ever had that do not make it 442 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:36.559 into the act Apostolic ascetis, and certainly don't make it 443 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.799 into the deposit of Faith. I thought we'd come here 444 00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:41.160 and talk about the first seven Councils because it's that 445 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.359 which we agree about. Me and I see it too. 446 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.680 Let me just get this out. 447 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:45.599 It says this. 448 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.279 If you think that that I was quote mining Ephesus Jay, 449 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.160 primatial authority everywhere on earth was given by the Redeemer 450 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.119 of the world himself, Jesus to the blessed Apostle Peter, 451 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.319 through the same Apostle the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Roman 452 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.759 Church has held till now and will hold for all 453 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.079 time primacy and sovereign authority. 454 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.799 So you have the lineage there. 455 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.000 It's for all time, it's primacy, it's sovereign authority. If 456 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:10.599 there's a head of the Church that can fire other guys, 457 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:12.960 then this is the kind of pope that the Roman 458 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.480 Catholic Church describes as. 459 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:17.680 A huge objection to this. First of all, Pope Virgilius 460 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.279 at the Fifth Ecumenical Council in the Acts of Constantinople two, 461 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.200 the council decrees that he be excommunicated and removed from 462 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:28.440 the Diptys Virgilius submitted to the council. Does that sound 463 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:31.480 like a autocratic position or does it sound like the 464 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:32.960 councils above the pope collegial? 465 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:35.440 No, it's not. No, the pope is collegial. 466 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:38.920 This is exactly what Vatican one says. Vatican one says 467 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:42.240 that the pope has a collegial relationship to the rest. 468 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:43.759 Of the bishop, but does it say that he relies 469 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:44.480 on the church to doing it? 470 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:50.480 Submitted to the pope, same as you know, i'mius. 471 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.720 The people ain't gonna fall this, but bill to the council, 472 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:58.799 not the pope. Yeah, but Jillius was excommunicated by the council. 473 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:01.599 Right, According to Richard Price, the pope submitted to the council. 474 00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:04.880 You said, Yeah, that's what the post one view. 475 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.680 The pope submitting to the council not prove that the 476 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:09.319 council has. 477 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.279 At all, No, no, no proofs that the pope bears a 478 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:13.519 collegial relationship. 479 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:16.119 Listen, Vatican one says that the council is not above 480 00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:18.359 a pope. You know that, so of course it's not 481 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:20.640 above a pope. And why is Vigilius submitting. 482 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:24.880 Because everyone else, Protestants and Orthodox misunderstand what the pope's 483 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:28.359 primacy that seems quite convenient primacy exactly well it is, 484 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.920 it's it's well, it's highly inconvenient to the Catholic argument 485 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.599 that you misunderstand it. The pope's relationship to all of 486 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.319 the all of the other churches is specifically this. 487 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:43.160 He is sorry to the bishops. Is this he's collegial. 488 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:48.680 He has this ex cathedral power to declare infallible truth 489 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.160 when and only when he makes the claim, and most 490 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:53.799 of the time the only two times we know that 491 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:56.559 he's used the power in the last thousand years. Everyone 492 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.359 misunderstands it. What he did first in eighteen fifty four 493 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.799 and then in nineteen fifty is he pulled all the 494 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.240 bishops of the world to make sure that this ex 495 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:09.519 catho draw power which is not oracular. He's not divining 496 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.839 out of his head magical truths that have never been 497 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:14.519 taught the pope. Because the Roman Catholic Church is the 498 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.680 one church that goes all the way back to Scripture, 499 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.279 the pope wants to make sure that bishops always and 500 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:23.559 everywhere have taught the immaculation objection. 501 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.680 Thought also, how does make rich alone? Go back to scripture. 502 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:30.039 You see the distinction, though, tim So when the Pope 503 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:31.759 says I'm going to say something the ex cathedra and 504 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:35.680 everyone goes apious. This is not he's divining when he 505 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.640 special the pope has a collegial relationship to the bishops. 506 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:43.920 I got their boss, I got community. Then he can't 507 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.519 be he can't be fired if he's their boss. And 508 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:48.119 that's exactly what happens with the vigilius. 509 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:49.880 It's more like the board of a company firing. 510 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:52.880 This one says that the pope is not superior to 511 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:53.480 a council. 512 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:55.000 He doesn't submit to the council. 513 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.039 Okay, let me ask you said it, you said it, Okay, 514 00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:58.759 I got a question. I'm not a Catholic. I got 515 00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:00.079 no idea. What half the stuff you got your and 516 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.039 all these Latin things and everything you said? The Pope 517 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:04.640 can decree infallible truth? 518 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:05.240 Am I wrong? 519 00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:08.039 Is that he say when he speaks from his special 520 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:09.400 chair from pastor. 521 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:11.880 So if he's if he's in his is it actually 522 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:12.440 a special chair? 523 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.119 Like? What is it? From the chair? 524 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.480 So from the chair he can declare something to be true, 525 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:22.119 like if he said gary marriage is never a thing. 526 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.319 Is that an example of what he might say. 527 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:26.720 Yeah, he could also say the opposite. He would have 528 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:29.440 to respect it, of course, right, And here's the proof. 529 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.319 He could say something ex cathedra has never been declared 530 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:35.200 that wasn't held from all time, the beginning of the church, 531 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:36.599 which is what happened. 532 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:37.799 I didn't really get it out. 533 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.039 When the pope has made ex cathedra claims, there are 534 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.720 things that he pulled the bishops on first to prove 535 00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:46.519 that Vatican One was not a new lone ranger view 536 00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:47.039 of the pope. 537 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:48.400 He's not an autocrat. 538 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:51.079 It's just a quick way of safeguard or something that 539 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.680 was always taught the bishops. 540 00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.759 He did claim to be an autocrat. He fully claimed that. 541 00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:01.720 Clarify my point. He is not deciding that he wants 542 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:03.559 gay marriage when he says it. He is sitting in 543 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:06.000 the chair and saying what the church believes, based on 544 00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:06.839 what the church believes. 545 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.319 That your point, well, the church doesn't have gay marriage, 546 00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:10.200 never has never en. 547 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:12.799 My point is if the pope went to a chair 548 00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:15.160 and said there is no gay marriage, it's not that 549 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.039 he's deciding it. He's saying, this is what the Church 550 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.440 has always held to be true. 551 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:23.799 Precisely, yeah, and that's what everyone misunderstands at Pastor attornis 552 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:25.640 Vatican One the most important thing? 553 00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:28.039 And so hold on, sorry, And then it would sound 554 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:30.839 to me the issue of removing a pope would be 555 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.039 if he was clearly stating things that were fallible untruths 556 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:34.799 from the chair. 557 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.720 Well, the first question, yes, correct, is the notion of 558 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.839 that authority, whether he actually possesses the Vatican One authority. 559 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.720 That Tim is reading back into the many examples that 560 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:50.160 contradict his reading. For example, Pope Vigilius is literally excomunicated 561 00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.440 and suspended at the Fifth Ecumenical Council. That's from Richard Price, 562 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.880 the famous Catholic scholars translation of the Acts of the Council. 563 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.839 And so the argument is not that the pope has 564 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.839 no relationship to the bishops, so he deflected and defeated 565 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.880 a strawman. The argument is that at the time of 566 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.519 the Fifth Ecumenical Council, the Pope submitted to and was 567 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:16.759 excommunicated by the council. And then now at Vatican One, 568 00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.319 it says the literal opposite that no council is above 569 00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.440 or can't fire the pope. So it's a complete contradiction, 570 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.240 and it's not just Vigilius. Tim said in his opening 571 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.680 statement that the Church via the roman Sea cannot defect. 572 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:33.160 If it could, it would lose one of its constituent components. 573 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.799 And yet at the next Ecumenical Council, the sixth Council, 574 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:39.079 Pope Honorius famously is a heretic. 575 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:39.839 He did defect. 576 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.519 All he did was write one letter that contained heretical statements, 577 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:46.000 and the Church at that council said he is a Heritic. 578 00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:50.119 He's defected, and then three subsequent councils after also reaffirmed 579 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.920 that condemnation. So again, indefectibility. 580 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:54.400 The notion of. 581 00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:58.559 Authority is all fluctuating and elastic, depending upon what Tim 582 00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:00.640 needs to be the case at the time. His only 583 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.960 answer was a too quotua and he didn't address any 584 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:03.400 of the things that. 585 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:11.160 I want to build on what he just said too, 586 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.839 Because if if Enorious had declared monothelitism ex Cathedral to 587 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:17.759 be the truth, what would you have to believe? 588 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:20.880 Well, the claim of the Church is that the church 589 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.759 is indefectible. This is Christ's promise. 590 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.440 Roman Sea is ineffectible. Says the Roman sea is indefectible. Okay, 591 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:31.599 the Roman Sea is indefectible. Insofar as this this requires interpretation. 592 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:35.440 What if you get an honorious What if you get Yeah, 593 00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:37.920 if you get it's a system. 594 00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:41.640 The theological opinion, whether we're going to Suarez or Bellaman 595 00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.960 or Francis Xavier, theological opinion can vary on this because 596 00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:47.400 what what happens? 597 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.359 Then? Obviously we know the church has to be one. 598 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:52.720 It's got to be whole holy, it's got to be Catholic, 599 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.079 it's got to be Apostolic the Roman. 600 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:57.519 Church, why does it have to respect the pope? At 601 00:29:57.640 --> 00:29:59.559 least let me get an emerald prince. 602 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:01.599 I don't to talk to two two barking dogs, so 603 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.119 let let me just let me get it out. 604 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.440 We have to make these things really clear. 605 00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.880 First, Jodd Nelson's getting met uh more of a bobcat 606 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:13.279 really uh And I see it too, primacial authority everywhere. 607 00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.200 What what does this mean to you, Tim if you 608 00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:20.119 were to hear Constantinople three, Because if you're if your claim, 609 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:22.400 if the claim is that I'm expanding upon the view, 610 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.880 you know, the Catholic view of of what the Orthodox 611 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:27.839 view of popes might have been in the first millennium. 612 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:32.960 Then just explain what this language means, that that the 613 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:35.839 Church has never aired from the path of apostolic tradition, 614 00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:38.960 nor she's been depraved by yielding to heretical innovations. But 615 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:41.799 from the beginning she has received the Christian faith from 616 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.440 her founders, the princes of the Apostles of Christ, and 617 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:47.319 remains undefiled to the end according to the divine promise 618 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.279 of the Lord and Savior himself. Now, because there are 619 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.960 there are bad popes in history, there are lots of them. 620 00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:57.359 We've had two hundred thirty seven, not just you have to. 621 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:00.799 Differentiate between which you know one in this audience ten percent, 622 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:05.160 between material and formal heretics, right, which is going to 623 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:06.839 take another five minutes. I'm not going to get out 624 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:08.759 what i want to say because I'm defending this position. 625 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.160 Look at Constantinople four. You can't have material heretics, you 626 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.079 can't have formal heretics. Constant Nople four. What does this 627 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.319 mean to you? This is a the the eight hundred 628 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:20.839 and seventy nine version. It was originally convened in eight 629 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.079 sixty nine. That's the Catholic version. I'm reading from the 630 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.200 Orthodox document. Listen to this, What do you do with this? 631 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.279 For just the Apostolic throne, having received the keys of 632 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:31.559 the Kingdom of Heaven from the First and Great High 633 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.920 Priest Jesus Christ, through the chief of the Apostles, Peter, 634 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:39.119 he has the authority of universal binding and loosing. Binding 635 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:42.440 and loosing is the power to forgive sins, which Protestants 636 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.359 don't have at all. Orthodox have it. But except this 637 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:48.519 is an Orthodox document, this is an Orthodox council. We 638 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.319 hold this council to him, he Peter, that's my whole. 639 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.839 We have this council. If he don't disagree with you. You 640 00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.319 don't have bishops, Yes, we do. The guy in the room, 641 00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:59.079 we do have bishops. And they go all the way 642 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.599 back to Aristobola. They're Britain. 643 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:04.440 What does this mean to you, Bishop? And as the 644 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:07.799 authority of universal binding and loosing? They say, this is 645 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:13.839 just a symbolic power. Jolli honorific. It's merely first emoment. 646 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:15.720 Now now hold on, if you're appealed to. 647 00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:18.240 I think that all twelve apostles have the power to 648 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:22.160 forgive sin, of course, of course, but only one has 649 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:26.440 what's called here at in this particular council the power 650 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.279 of universal binding and loosing, which is why you would 651 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.119 appeal to a pope to excommunicate the second in charge 652 00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:34.119 of the church. You have to get you have to 653 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:34.839 tell me how. 654 00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.599 And that's why a council can excommunicate the post, because 655 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.200 the councils above communicate. 656 00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:43.759 I just read the bishops are above the. 657 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:48.119 Pot The acts of the council say the Julius was excommunicated. 658 00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.559 Your translation of your people say he was. 659 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:53.279 I would like to hear from you, guys, what about 660 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:57.759 the arguments you've made or believe makes your denomination superior 661 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:00.799 in the true sense of the word superior. Are you 662 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.599 saying that it's because you are right, you are correct, 663 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.160 or is there something about your belief that inherently better 664 00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.440 serves the people and God. 665 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:10.720 The I mean, just to be very clear, the Anglican 666 00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:14.440 Catholic position, and by extension, the Methodist position, because Methodists 667 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:18.039 are Anglicans, is that the Methodist Church, the Anglican Church, 668 00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.839 all of them. They're not the superior, one true church. 669 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.319 They are a group of Christians in their genuine, best effort, 670 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:29.640 attempting to follow Christ in the most proper way possible. 671 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.960 Using the seven Ecumenical councils using the seven sacraments. We 672 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:36.559 are Catholic up until the end of the eleventh century. 673 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:40.400 Why what happened then we began to disagree with the pope? 674 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.359 I mean it's a long process. The Reformation did not 675 00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:44.519 happen in fifteen seven. 676 00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:46.279 Eleventh century. A pope came in who was saying stuff 677 00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:47.240 that was like way wrong. 678 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:49.839 I would argue it started with Gregory the seventh, probably 679 00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:52.720 with the Dictatus pape and him coming out and because 680 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.359 of a literal political situation, this was not a theological issue. 681 00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:58.000 If here's a political. 682 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.720 Question, you're an Anglican, then do you agree with the 683 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:01.599 Anglican Catholic? 684 00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:03.559 I don't agree with the branch. 685 00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:05.079 Can you elaborate on the branch theory? 686 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:08.079 It's the typical Anglin idea that the Church is split 687 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:09.719 amongst a bunch of different branches. 688 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.280 I think I think that would probably. 689 00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:14.960 Do you think that any of the people who compose 690 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.320 the documents and the canons at the seven Ecumenical councils 691 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:20.840 believe that the Church was divided amongst a bunch of 692 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:21.679 different sects? 693 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.000 I don't, well, I I mean orthodox. 694 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.199 Now, could you name anybody that believed that about the 695 00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:32.079 nature of the church. 696 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:34.760 I don't know that I would agree that it was 697 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.280 necessarily divided into several sects. And I don't know that 698 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:38.559 my church would agree with that either. 699 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:41.239 I think, don't you agree with the idea that Protestants 700 00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:43.400 are trying their best and whether they're Methodists or whether 701 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:44.679 they're Anglican doesn't really matter. 702 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.719 No, I would say that there are Protestant sects that 703 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:48.559 are is. 704 00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.000 The church divided amongst those branches. 705 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:54.079 Today? Yes? 706 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.800 Okay, did anyone in those seven councils have that idea 707 00:34:57.880 --> 00:34:58.320 about the. 708 00:34:58.320 --> 00:34:59.079 Nature of the church. 709 00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.920 No, But I'll so don't think that your so, your. 710 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.199 Church is not in communion with those ideas. 711 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:06.760 My church is not in communicant with the Anglican communion. 712 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:09.960 We're we're not Anglicans. We're Anglican Catholics. 713 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.360 We hold our asking you about the first thousand years 714 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:15.039 of Christianity, yes. 715 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.639 We have, but you have a we are in agreement 716 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:17.840 with all seven you're. 717 00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:20.400 Not because you just you couldn't name anybody that had 718 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:21.880 your ecclesiology of those. 719 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.960 I don't think we're having I don't think we're having converse. 720 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.079 Maybe you should get on this conversation and answer the question, 721 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:29.519 because that's what we're doing here today. 722 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:32.920 The terminology you're using is confusing to me. 723 00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:34.559 Is common no. 724 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.760 Ecclesiology that the people the first thousand years had, Did 725 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.639 anyone of them have a branch theory? 726 00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.320 Or that the church is divided amongst a bunch of groups. 727 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.199 Again, I don't think we're having the same conversation. I 728 00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:49.960 think we got off base at a certain point here. 729 00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.800 Does your ecclesiology have any basis in the first thousand years? 730 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.719 Yes, we trace all of our ecclesiology back to the 731 00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:56.519 first thousand. 732 00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:59.239 Name a church father or or a council that has 733 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:01.440 your branch the review of the church. 734 00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.599 I think branch theory is where we're having a disagreement here. 735 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.599 It's a classic Anglican term for the nature of the church. 736 00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:11.880 That's how they justified their reformation position. So tell me 737 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.079 one church father or a council that has that position 738 00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.719 about the church is a very simple question, I I 739 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:17.280 off the top. 740 00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:19.880 So it's a historical Off the top of my head, 741 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:20.960 I can't give you answer. 742 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.400 With Jay's asking him for people out there listening about 743 00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:29.599 a historical When when a Protestant claims that I'm with 744 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:31.679 the Church. I was with the Church the same way 745 00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:35.760 that the Orthodox were until ten fifty four. Set aside 746 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:40.400 who excommunicated whom for a second. They might agree in 747 00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:44.079 abstracted which is why I called it abstract enlightenment rationalism. 748 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.119 They might agree in abstracted with what was going on, 749 00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.679 you know, with the Orthodox or with the Catholics. They 750 00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.199 might favor They're always going to favor the Orthodox because 751 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.559 none of these groups like the pope or the unity 752 00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:58.360 required by a papacy. But what Jay was asking here 753 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:03.159 is for it to be true Christianity, true true Christianity 754 00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:04.079 in its truest. 755 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:05.960 Sense, it's got to be one holy, Catholic and Apostolic. 756 00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.480 There's a problem for the one mark and the Catholic 757 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:13.920 mark for Orthodox. But Orthodox are actually Christian in so 758 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.880 far as they have the seven Sacraments and all of 759 00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:21.320 their bishops can be traced back to one of the apostles. 760 00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:23.719 That's what he was asking about ecclesiology. 761 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:26.719 So when they say, all, I agree with this, but no, 762 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.639 no Protestant has the seven sacraments or a bishop. 763 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:33.280 We have the seven sacraments, I have bishops. 764 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:36.760 I'm gonna I'm gonna get very reductive and simplify everything 765 00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.679 to a ridiculous degree and ask questions that maybe are 766 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:44.719 ridiculously rudimentary for the Christian. Do you guys all like 767 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:48.880 when it comes to like Mosaic law, laws of Leviticus, 768 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.679 do you all follow those or are they considered archaic? 769 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.320 How does the Old Testament play a role in how 770 00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:56.199 you live your lives. 771 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:56.880 And what rules you follow? 772 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.159 We have we're under the New Covenant. We yeah, So 773 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:00.880 what does that mean? 774 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:04.679 I just don't know, like the New Testament, So the 775 00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:05.880 laws of Leviticus, don't know? 776 00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:08.880 Yeah, the laws of Leviticus are specifically made for a 777 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.039 very specific period in Jewish history, and there are that 778 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.159 Jesus does not come to erase the law. He comes 779 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.280 to fulfill the law. So his position in the hierarchy 780 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.079 is not as somebody who washes things away, it's somebody 781 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.800 who fulfills it. The law was basically a series of 782 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.239 things that Jews had to do to stay in communion 783 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.280 with God. Christ gives us a different set of rules. 784 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:32.800 That doesn't mean we'd ignore everything, but it means we 785 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:35.199 take his authority over the old law. 786 00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:38.840 So does that mean that when it comes to all 787 00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:42.440 of the old Testament's rules. Are there some that remain 788 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.239 based on Jesus said outright, these are still to remain, 789 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:48.760 and these are not to remain. How do you and 790 00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.119 this is not a question, how do you know which 791 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:54.199 I don't imagine that Jesus addressed literally every single rule 792 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:54.559 or law. 793 00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:56.840 How do you know which ones to fobiably? 794 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.000 Well? 795 00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.519 One way we disagree with him is to a degree, 796 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.159 not totally, but I mean Orthodox and Catholics agree that 797 00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:04.840 there is an oral tradition that's passed on from the apostles. 798 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.159 So you have with the written text of the New Testament, 799 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:09.679 which the early Church didn't have a Bible, they had 800 00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:13.039 some documents, they had some letters, and they had tradition, 801 00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.480 and they had the church service, so everything was kind 802 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:15.880 of done. 803 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:17.239 In a liturgical service way. 804 00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:21.280 You would be getting catechized orally, and then eventually the 805 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:25.039 Bible gets collected in later centuries to be the canon. 806 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:28.360 But so basically, tradition and the Bible lets you know 807 00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:30.800 what things carry over and what don't. And that's one 808 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.519 of the reasons why the councils have Church law. So 809 00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:35.440 church law kind of helps interpret that. 810 00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:37.199 So I have a question. I'm prively pouncing this wrong. 811 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:39.880 But how do you all view who to writes? 812 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.360 Is it the word Anabaptists? 813 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:44.360 Like, yeah, yeah, how do you how do y'all view them? 814 00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:45.320 Are they we. 815 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:46.679 Would say they're heterodox. 816 00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.400 Yeah, they're outside of the. 817 00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.639 I think you guys would all agree it's a documinish 818 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:57.480 So this is going to be a kindergartener level. Uh, 819 00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:01.320 you know urban liberals argument for the Christians right now? 820 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:03.880 Why I say this, but is it not one of 821 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:05.840 the instructions of God to be fruitful and multiply? 822 00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:06.920 Yes? 823 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.159 Sure, So we're having a conversation over what is the 824 00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:11.119 the superior denomination? 825 00:40:11.559 --> 00:40:15.480 Watch look it up. I don't think Mormons count no 826 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:16.360 offense to Mormons. 827 00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:19.239 I think for the purpose of this debate, Mormons are 828 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:20.400 a different area. 829 00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.320 They're right, Mormons are nontrinitarian. They don't believe in the 830 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:24.079 same God that we do. 831 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:28.920 Pentecostals have a two point one fertility rate and hooter 832 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:33.360 Rightes have six to two seven fertility rate. After that, 833 00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.480 Conservative Protestants one point eight, Catholics one point nine, Orthodox 834 00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:41.559 one point nine. Jovah's witness slight less than two Protestants 835 00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:45.519 one point five to one point six. Liberal Protestants one 836 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.719 point five and unaffiliated Christians one point three to one 837 00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:54.400 point eight. So the Pentecostals and hutter Rights, according to 838 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.559 just a cursorysearch, are the only actual groups that are 839 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:02.039 being fruitful and multiplying, and that's to be honest, only 840 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:07.400 the Hooterites, the Amish, Anabaptists, everybody else and having kids. 841 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.159 I think traditional Catholics are having kids. 842 00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.400 Uh, just a cursor research, it is around one point 843 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:14.960 nine two. I thought it was a little higher than that. 844 00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.199 There's not much of a difference between our three sects. 845 00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:18.519 Y'all ain't having kids. 846 00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:20.800 Well, if you go to multiply, what are you going 847 00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:23.119 with the Tridentine Latin mass It's a very different group. 848 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:25.480 And I'm going to ask Chchi and know it's going 849 00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.400 to be above the part I do. I do really quickly. 850 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:29.800 While he's doing that, I want to come back because 851 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:31.440 I will have an opportunity to sit down and think 852 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.440 about the branch theory thing. Do you not have a 853 00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:36.480 Russian Orthodox, a Greek Orthodox An Orthodox Church in America? 854 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:38.360 Those are not branches. 855 00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:42.199 It's not at all the same ecclesiology of Anglican branch theory. 856 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:43.880 That's all I would point out that branch theory is 857 00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:44.880 not dogmatic. 858 00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:47.559 It's but I was just looking for whatever it was. 859 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:50.760 I know. But the Anglican position is that we were 860 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.880 part of the one true, Holy Apostolic Catholic Church, and 861 00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:56.079 then you're not and then that church. 862 00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:57.320 What's dogma in your church? 863 00:41:57.320 --> 00:41:59.480 How do you determine it the same way that Catholics 864 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.800 and Orthodox But we don't have we no longer have 865 00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:03.480 a pope, but we are. 866 00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:05.960 Councils of bishops, So how do you determine them? 867 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:07.239 We have councils of bishops? 868 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:09.599 Okay, but what's a dogma? 869 00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:09.800 Like? 870 00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:11.119 Do you accept icons? 871 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:13.679 No? Well, yes, we were not iconoclasts. 872 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:16.199 Well, but is it a dogma or is it an opinion? 873 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:18.679 Because most of the same position as the Roman Catholic Church. 874 00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:21.800 No, you don't because Orthodox and a Roman Catholics excommunicate 875 00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:25.400 people that don't believe in imagery, and most Protestants historically 876 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:28.320 have allowed it to be something that's an opinion audio offer. 877 00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:29.880 There is a lot of pious opinion. 878 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:32.280 So is it a dogma or not? That's the question. 879 00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:35.239 I'm not sure exactly what icons. I don't believe that 880 00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:38.519 we excommunicate people for thinking that icons, so. 881 00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:40.559 It's not a dogma, and thus many of the basics 882 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:41.800 are not actually settled in. 883 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.880 It depends on the if we're in again, I'm not 884 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.639 as well versed on the specifics of the councils, but 885 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:50.519 if it's in this first seven councils, we're in the 886 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:51.920 same We're of the same opinion. 887 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.800 But the problem with your ecclesiology is that when there 888 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.159 are no leaders, right, I mean. 889 00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.519 We have bishops, we have archbishops. I don't know why 890 00:42:58.519 --> 00:42:59.159 we keep coming to the. 891 00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:01.920 Bishops that that can trace the lineage, yes, way back 892 00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:02.199 to one. 893 00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:04.400 We can trace back to Augustin of Britain, and we 894 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:08.480 can trace back to ball Orthodox and Roman Catholics. Our 895 00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:10.320 bishops traced back to the first century a d. 896 00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:10.880 In Britain. 897 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:15.199 Okay that according to your if you have a totally no, no, 898 00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:17.559 it's not a broken lineage. The church remained in Britain 899 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:19.159 even after the Saxons got. 900 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:21.559 They're identifying as an Anglican Catholic today, yes, or you're 901 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:22.679 identifying as a Methodist. 902 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.079 I'm identifying as a Methodist who is inquiring into the 903 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.719 Anglican Catholic Church getting later this year. I mean this 904 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:29.920 is part of the pitch right now, we're having a 905 00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.960 historical discussion. I am a historian, but we're having a 906 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:36.039 conversation about history right now. So your church recognizes the 907 00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.559 risk of ballast of Britain. Your church recognizes the risk time. 908 00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:40.199 You're a historian, but you didn't know about branch theory, 909 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:41.280 which is like the number one. 910 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.159 I'm not a religious historian. I'm a historian on medieval 911 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:48.840 historian specifically. So when we're looking at this arista, Ballus 912 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.480 is the earliest week can go back with the Anglican 913 00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:55.320 Catholic Church because of the union between the churches in 914 00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.519 Kent andology. No not, I I know that's that's fair. 915 00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:04.320 It's just you're not You're not a faithful representatively both 916 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.440 in your church is acknowledgeious? 917 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:06.159 We don't. 918 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:09.000 We don't acknowledge your ecclesiology. You understand that from the 919 00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:11.880 Orthodox perspective, it doesn't matter if you have a laying 920 00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.440 on of hands. 921 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:13.960 Is Augustine legitimate? 922 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.480 If you leave the faith of the church, none of that. 923 00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:18.199 From the Orthodox perspective. 924 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.639 I can't leave the faith the church. That's our position. 925 00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:22.599 I know your position. 926 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.199 I'm saying from our position, our ecclesiology doesn't recognize your ecclesiology, 927 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:30.159 nor does his. They think that Anglican orders are invalid 928 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:31.280 via the other thirteenth. 929 00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:33.960 That's so, that's because that's what's convenient to their theology. 930 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:35.960 It doesn't actually have any sort of I'm. 931 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:38.599 Saying that either of us recognizes your lineage, and I 932 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:40.639 understand that you think that it's there, But that's why 933 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:41.280 is there. 934 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:43.480 That's why it all the way back to only. 935 00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:47.719 On the basis of your ecclesiology, and presupposing we haven't lineage. 936 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:50.079 We know we have an ordination that goes on. 937 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.039 The basis of your ecclesiology. 938 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.000 You understand people out there and need to understand that 939 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.840 there there There is such a thing as Apostolic sacramental Christianity. 940 00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:01.039 The Roman Catholic Church has wrote on this in two 941 00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:03.679 thousand and four and in the nineties as well. We 942 00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:07.119 acknowledge that you can call the Orthodox Church's churches with 943 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:10.519 a capital. See, they have bishops, they go back to apostles, 944 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.480 they have seven sacraments represented acknowledged by the Church. 945 00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:15.679 They're valid sacraments. 946 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.000 You wouldn't belicit for a Catholic to receive there or 947 00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:23.159 vice versa. But there is a shared ecclesiology. What people 948 00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:27.480 don't understand and need to about Protestantism. Anglican Catholics are 949 00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:31.239 slightly different. They're an exception to the rule. But of 950 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:35.400 all the sects of Protestantism, they don't share any ecclesiology 951 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.079 with us. So they'll say, oh, this is a dogma. 952 00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:39.360 What's a dogma? This isn't something that traces back to 953 00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.960 the acta Apostolic ascetis. It's not something that the bishop's 954 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.159 always and everywhere taught together as a church. 955 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:47.519 So we have to just say this. 956 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:50.880 It's not to be exclusive, but Protestantism is a lay 957 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.920 bastardization of the religion. You guys believe in a Trinitarian 958 00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.400 you have a Trinitarian baptism, baptism in the name of 959 00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.480 the Father Son, Holy Spirit. So so it is technically Christian. 960 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:07.039 But except beyond that and baptism even in Roman Catholicism 961 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:08.960 can be done by a layman, which is what makes 962 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:14.440 it valid. But other than that, Protestantism is an abstract idea. 963 00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:17.840 I like the idea, I like this book that the Roman. 964 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:22.920 So it's you think we're talking about Protestantism that is 965 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:24.039 a big tense. 966 00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:25.800 You're part of that that domain. 967 00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.480 Yes, but the Anglican Protestantism is very different from the 968 00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:30.840 Lutheran Protestism, which is very different from the reform projects. 969 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.440 Was my original point, right, there's not actually any clear 970 00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:35.320 unity there. It's all over the place. 971 00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.320 No Protestant is going to tell you that there is 972 00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:38.760 Protestant unity. 973 00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:39.599 Thank you. 974 00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:43.360 They're going to tell you protism. No, no, it doesn't. 975 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.159 Council and I see you guys must be one holy 976 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:49.039 Catholic and apostology that does those four marks has a 977 00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:50.280 very specific. 978 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:51.519 Doesn't mean that we have to be in communion with 979 00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:52.239 one another. 980 00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:54.159 Obviously, it means you have to have those marks. 981 00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:59.199 We have bishops, we have the sacraments, we have the history. 982 00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:01.400 It's bishop td takes a bishop. He claims to be one. 983 00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:03.000 I don't know who TD Jakes is. 984 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:06.320 Woman the black. 985 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:10.360 He's the black modalist preacher who says he's Bishop td Jakes. 986 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:12.920 The bishop doesn't sound like he is. 987 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.519 Okay, but you're a bishop. 988 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:18.079 Your church has My church has bishops because they can 989 00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:20.639 trace their ordination back to August. 990 00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:22.760 The seventh time the question has been asked and he's 991 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:23.840 answered the exact same thing. 992 00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:26.920 Because he's but he's not understanding that you're not. 993 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:27.280 Going to get you. 994 00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:29.599 Guys aren't asking a question that makes sense. Why why 995 00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:31.039 do you have ordinations? Because we do? 996 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:31.760 Okay, Okay. 997 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:35.800 So I think there's an interesting view between the three 998 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.280 of you and what a superior denomination would be. And 999 00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:42.519 it's largely about what you think to be true to 1000 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.599 the religion as opposed to what the religion does and 1001 00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:48.039 what it's its adherents do. 1002 00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:50.519 I I And that's fine. 1003 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:52.239 I'm not saying I don't want to diminish that, because 1004 00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.280 obviously that's extremely important to know that, to know the 1005 00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:56.320 truth and and and you know the history of things. 1006 00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.199 But from my perspective, I take a look at the 1007 00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:01.400 adherence to the really and what they're doing and whether 1008 00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:03.559 they can actually follow what they're being told to do, 1009 00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:08.239 and it largely feels like they mostly don't. I mean again, 1010 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:09.960 like if I was going to go off with the 1011 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.400 sheer numbers, I'm more convinced to be Homish than anything 1012 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.000 right right, anything else right now. 1013 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:17.639 The problem is Gandhi. Gandhi said the same thing. He said, 1014 00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:19.519 if I ever met a perfect Christian, I would go 1015 00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:22.960 be You don't. There's some validity to the proposition by 1016 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:24.880 a lord and that you judge a tree by. 1017 00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:27.320 I got my point is this? So I looked up 1018 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:32.159 the fastest growing denominations. The Independent Network of Charismatic Christianity 1019 00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:37.400 is the largest growth, apparently, followed by Pentecostal churches. Good God, 1020 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:43.280 Pentecostals have like between three to five percent growth. 1021 00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:46.639 You understand the inverse proportionalism at work there though. It's 1022 00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:49.480 that they're small, so they can grow really really fat. 1023 00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:51.360 If the town's got one hundred people and it gets 1024 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:55.159 two new people, it just increased its population by two percent. 1025 00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:58.599 Catholic also Pentecostals. It's terrifying. 1026 00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.000 Also the the way the debate is framed, which is 1027 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.000 not bad, but superior begs the question of like what standard, 1028 00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.320 Like what do you what's the metric for judging? 1029 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:09.119 What makes it suppear? 1030 00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:12.199 I would argue the superior, like, the superior religion is 1031 00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:14.440 the one that brings the most people to salvation. 1032 00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.400 Yeah, well, but maybe what's maybe truth is first and 1033 00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.199 foremost I think for most of us or all of 1034 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.920 us here. Yeah, that because we assume that the true 1035 00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:26.679 religion will bear the fruits that go along with what's 1036 00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:31.159 true first and foremost. So just having numbers isn't necessarily 1037 00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.679 an indicator of the true religion, because you can have 1038 00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.119 a lot of people who convert to a false religion 1039 00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:39.199 or who think that they're converting and it's really just 1040 00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:42.480 like Santarea or something like that by South America. That's 1041 00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:43.599 not authentic, right. 1042 00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:44.800 So to be fair, I want to make sure of 1043 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:45.360 the numbers, right. 1044 00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:48.079 I just I just looked up Catholic to make the 1045 00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.280 point about inverse three point nine million people in twenty 1046 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.320 twenty three became Catholic, whereas Pentecosta was fifty nine fifty 1047 00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.440 six thousand. So yeah, it's correct, And I'll look up 1048 00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:59.800 the other sex as well, because likely the same thing 1049 00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:03.239 for for Orthodox they're much larger, so the percentage wise 1050 00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:07.119 is going to be smaller. But I guess my ultimate 1051 00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:11.800 concern is the initial point of the question of superior 1052 00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.679 religion is I think, as you put, who brings people 1053 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:16.400 to salvation? Obviously the truth of the religion is going 1054 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:18.599 to matter, because, like you said, if they're practicing Santa Ria. 1055 00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:19.679 Then they're not going anywhere. 1056 00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:23.280 But there's also the fact that, I mean, largely among 1057 00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.440 all of your sex people are not having kids at all, 1058 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.440 or I should say they're having kids, but they're having 1059 00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:33.599 not enough, so you can keep converting, but eventually there's 1060 00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:34.079 no people. 1061 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:35.440 I mean, where where does this ultimately go? 1062 00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:40.440 Fair metric in some political sense, but it's also soteriologically 1063 00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.559 who goes to heaven or not. It's a bit of 1064 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.880 a crass metric. We don't we should be having lots 1065 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:51.039 of kids. And obviously Roman Catholicism is marked as the 1066 00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:57.000 only solidified version of Christianity on earth that stayed against 1067 00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:02.039 contraception after the Anglican l Ambeth Conferences of nineteen ten, 1068 00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:05.039 nineteen twenty, nineteen thirty, where all the other sects of 1069 00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:09.360 Christianity capitulated. But it's true, and it's fair enough for 1070 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:12.880 people to say, particularly after Vatican two and the liberalizing 1071 00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:18.199 trends popular trends among Catholics, almost as many Catholics contracept 1072 00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:20.239 as Protestants or Orthodox. 1073 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:21.480 This isn't quite true. 1074 00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.639 If you go to a Tredentian Latin Mass, you're going 1075 00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:25.280 to see big, big, big families. 1076 00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:28.440 But which Day pointed out, But I do. 1077 00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:30.719 Think that everyone should, each of the three of us 1078 00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:34.519 here should have a segment to state. 1079 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:37.119 But you know, some sort of answer to. 1080 00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.960 The posit if that's cool, Like, what what's your case 1081 00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:45.320 for why you are the best version of Christianity, best 1082 00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:45.920 major side. 1083 00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:47.880 I don't hold a position that we are. We just 1084 00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:54.360 hold a position that you're not. That's incredibly weak and weak. 1085 00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:58.159 We have a lot of Mennonites around here and the Rock. 1086 00:51:58.280 --> 00:51:58.880 They're awesome. 1087 00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:03.039 They have animals, They sell food. It's always like real food, 1088 00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:07.000 no chemicals, no garbage. They got big families and these 1089 00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:09.760 I looked it up that the main the moderate Mennonite state. 1090 00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:12.199 There's a shop not too far away twenty minutes we 1091 00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:13.440 used to go to all the time. They got ice 1092 00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:16.199 cream and cheeses and it's all this really great stuff. 1093 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:19.360 I love it. That seems pretty cool, you know, so 1094 00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:20.960 if I was trying to figure. 1095 00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:21.440 Out which one. 1096 00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:23.320 Yeah, well my point is largely. 1097 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:27.239 Like looking at the world today and the state of things, 1098 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:31.639 they make a pretty good argument. You know, don't eat garbage, 1099 00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.159 be with your family, honor like they tend to honor 1100 00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:36.519 their families, their communities, their parents, They go to church. 1101 00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:38.760 They maintain this. They have lots lots of kids. Yeah, 1102 00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:40.599 I know they're small, it's only a few million. 1103 00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.760 Well, can I address that, because there's two points. It 1104 00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:45.519 actually addressed the point I was trying to make to 1105 00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:47.320 you earlier. So, like, if you go back to the 1106 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:49.199 early Church, there was a group called the Arians, and 1107 00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:52.519 the Arians believed that Jesus was a creature. But the 1108 00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:56.079 Arans were also very into morality and pushing morals, so 1109 00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:59.519 they were at least outwardly speaking moral kind of like 1110 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:03.840 Jose this as you could say. But Arians had apostolic succession, 1111 00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.280 but they lost the church and the faith even though 1112 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:11.760 they had the mechanical succession. Likewise, Christianity can't be identified 1113 00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:16.079 as hutter rights or amish because historical. It's a historic religion, 1114 00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:19.840 so it has to be tied to the historic succession 1115 00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:23.599 not just of the bishops, but the apostles that Jesus 1116 00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:26.519 appointed in the Gospel to hand down that authority and 1117 00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:29.760 that rulership of the church. So when you look at 1118 00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:32.760 the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh centuries, you 1119 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:35.400 don't see anything like anglic Catholicism. You don't see anything 1120 00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.400 like hutter rights or Amish. You see people coming together 1121 00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:42.239 having councils with bishops, with the eucharists, with monastics, with 1122 00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:46.639 you know, the episcopacy, with you relics with all the 1123 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:51.519 things that characterize Catholic Christianity and Orthodox identify as. 1124 00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:54.360 To be fair, though, I would argue that in those 1125 00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:57.159 time periods, people were more likely to live in practice 1126 00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:58.360 and worship as the Hutter rights. 1127 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.199 Do you know the church which is liturgical worship that 1128 00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:05.920 you see with icons and incense is literally out of 1129 00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:08.360 the Old Testament worship with that you mentioned earlier, like 1130 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.880 the levitical laws. The church adopted all of those, many 1131 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:15.960 of those ceremonial things like having the you know, the 1132 00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:19.840 priests decked out the way he is with having an altar. Nope, 1133 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.599 like typically speaking, Baptists don't believe in an altar for 1134 00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:27.199 the purpose of the Eucharistic offering, right, so Baptists believe 1135 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:30.840 in it being a purely symbolic remembrance ceremony. But the 1136 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:35.920 early Church is doing the liturgy. They're doing the Mass 1137 00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:40.119 or the you know, the divine Liturgy from the earliest days. 1138 00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:43.800 Everything he just described as what early Church Catholics did 1139 00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:47.239 applies to Okay, it doesn't. I don't think he knows 1140 00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:48.440 what Anglican Catholicism is. 1141 00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:50.840 You didn't know the basics of Anglican ecclesiology. 1142 00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:53.440 I'm not aware of a non dogmatic a. 1143 00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:55.760 Very well known thing. You're not. 1144 00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:58.119 It's your common doctrine of ecclesiology. 1145 00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.079 You didn't know it. You're not gonna lecture me on Anglican. 1146 00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:02.239 Also, don't. We also don't hold to the thirty nine 1147 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:03.800 articles as dogmatic. 1148 00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:04.599 Because there's not dogma. 1149 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:06.760 As we showed a minute ago, the marks of the 1150 00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:11.079 marks of natural religion qua religion are are really important 1151 00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:14.400 here and they do set off a kind of rift 1152 00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:17.000 where the Protestants are alone. 1153 00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.000 They're they're a voice crying in the wilderness, and we 1154 00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:20.840 have to acknowledge them. That's what I tried to acknowledge 1155 00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:23.519 at the very beginning, the basic marks of religion. Even 1156 00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:26.519 the Pagan Greeks had some of these. You would say 1157 00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:30.800 Buddhism doesn't, Protestantism doesn't, but even some of the Polytheists 1158 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:33.719 religions do. They have things like smells and bells. Having 1159 00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:38.199 an altar is something from even pagan Greek religion. But 1160 00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:42.280 but for for incremental Jews. The Jews, Jews had them right. 1161 00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:48.000 Sacramentals sacrifice, blood, blood sacrifice, which really from Judaism to 1162 00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:53.039 Christianity became sacrament precepts, the you know, daily things you 1163 00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:55.679 have to do. What are the five precepts of Catholicism, 1164 00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:57.440 assasserdotal order. 1165 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:01.840 Or ritual or what we call what we call liturgy. 1166 00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:06.119 These are things that are lacking in Protestantism. I'm not 1167 00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:09.199 saying this to be rude or exclusive, but when you're 1168 00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:12.400 dealing with what I actually say makes the Roman Catholic 1169 00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:16.519 faith the superior form of Christianity is at the first 1170 00:56:16.599 --> 00:56:20.039 ecumenical council ever, which was Nicia, where we defined the 1171 00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:24.639 most important stuff about the Trinity. There were four marks 1172 00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:27.800 of the Church laid out that Christ promised us the 1173 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:29.960 Church would never defect. It would be this way until 1174 00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:32.480 the end of time. It would be one. So there 1175 00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:36.280 can't be competing sex. There can be arguments within one sect, 1176 00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:39.800 but there can't be actual different competing sex. Wholly this 1177 00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:47.639 means sacraments Catholic, this means worldwide, and of course apostolic. 1178 00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:49.519 This means that there has to be a direct line 1179 00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:51.880 of every bishop in the world. Back to one of 1180 00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:56.239 the apostles, we would say, with all due respect, Protestantism 1181 00:56:56.239 --> 00:56:59.199 by and large lacks all four. Now we do not 1182 00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:01.719 make the same. The Church doesn't make the same claim 1183 00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:06.679 about Orthodox Christianity. They have real bishops that the Church acknowledges, 1184 00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:09.440 and that means that they have all seven sacraments. Seven 1185 00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.440 This means complete. So there's a different conversation that needs 1186 00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:15.960 to happen between Catholics. You heard it because we're talking 1187 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:19.880 about the first seven Councils versus a kind of quasi 1188 00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:20.920 religious products. 1189 00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.840 Once again, we acknowledge and hold the First seven Councils, 1190 00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:24.440 but you don't. 1191 00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:27.519 As I showed from the Seventh Documenical Council, you fundamentally 1192 00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:29.679 reject the thing that that council was about. 1193 00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:30.840 You said, it's audiopera. 1194 00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:33.519 They say you're excommunicated if you don't accept images, So 1195 00:57:33.559 --> 00:57:34.760 you don't accept the seventh. 1196 00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:37.400 In theory and name. 1197 00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:39.480 What are you? 1198 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.440 That was what you said. 1199 00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:43.559 If I said that we if we. 1200 00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:47.280 Have dogma, you don't know that these terms, I. 1201 00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:50.199 Said, okay, No, if I said that we don't agree 1202 00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:52.599 with the Seventh Council, then I misspoke because. 1203 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:53.599 Of no, you said that. 1204 00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:56.519 I asked you if it was dogma meaning you're excommunicated 1205 00:57:56.519 --> 00:57:58.039 if you don't believe in images, and you said no, 1206 00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:00.159 we don't believe that, then you don't believe this the 1207 00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:01.159 council because it does that. 1208 00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:03.280 It's a simple point. 1209 00:58:03.079 --> 00:58:06.679 Because we don't excommunicate people for not as you don't 1210 00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:11.039 have ecclesiologyesiology. But listen, I was gonna bring I want 1211 00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:11.639 to bring in another. 1212 00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:12.760 We got another denomination. 1213 00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.400 Who's got some words for you, Warpeg with a super 1214 00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:18.960 test saying Baptists don't pray to middlemen and call them saints, 1215 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:21.519 and we don't pay for our salvation by giving Rome 1216 00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.719 our coin. Long live American Independent Baptists. 1217 00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:28.960 What say, y'all, that's got to be a joke, Rock, Yeah, 1218 00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:30.039 that's so. 1219 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.280 In First Timothy, for Paul says to Timothy, be good, Timothy, 1220 00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.599 because you will save those around you. Okay, does that 1221 00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:41.199 mean that Paul thinks Timothy is the Savior. No, Timothy 1222 00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:45.480 is participating in by cooperating with God, helping and being 1223 00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.920 a conduit of grace to those around him in the 1224 00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:51.599 same way Mary and other Saints are not God. They're 1225 00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:54.679 conduits that pray for us and help us, exactly the 1226 00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:55.840 way Paul's talking to Timothy. 1227 00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:57.840 If you've ever asked your your buddy to pray for you, 1228 00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.760 I'm going through something that's that's the Saints thing is 1229 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:04.679 absolutely retarded. Uh when when Protestants spurg out about this, 1230 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.440 it's it's literally asking the saints in heaven to pray 1231 00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:07.719 for us. 1232 00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:08.840 They're they're closer to God. 1233 00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.239 It's the church triumphant rather than the people that if 1234 00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:13.119 I ask you to pray for. 1235 00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:15.599 Me, you're still a church militant. It's it's a closer 1236 00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:18.119 prayer to get I'm just still confused on why icons 1237 00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:18.559 are any show. 1238 00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:20.760 Okay, but I don't want to because let let's just 1239 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:23.800 let's just we have icons, have icons. 1240 00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:26.440 We have icons. If a church did not, If a 1241 00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:29.840 church you're missing the icons, you not be recognized as 1242 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:30.239 a church. 1243 00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:31.960 We we've, we've we I don't want to go in 1244 00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:33.199 circles on that over and over and over again with 1245 00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:34.079 everyone saying the same thing. 1246 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:36.480 So I have a question. I got a question. Do 1247 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:39.599 each of you think you will meet each other in 1248 00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:40.800 heaven or no? Yes? 1249 00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:42.159 My church does. 1250 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:44.559 Well. I guess it's true if you think that, right, 1251 00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:47.000 If it's more liberal, does that I get true? 1252 00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:48.440 It's not liberal. We are. 1253 00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:50.280 It's a liberal position. 1254 00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:55.920 It's not liberal liberal and a different saying you're a trinitarian, 1255 00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:57.039 you're a trinitarian. 1256 00:59:57.159 --> 01:00:00.280 I'm a truticized sacraments audio. 1257 01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:02.920 My apostolic succession goes back just as far as yours 1258 01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:03.480 and yours. 1259 01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:05.599 All you've done is a start your position. 1260 01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:09.119 So question just haven't rejected, You haven't actually rejected. 1261 01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:09.519 I'm gonna. 1262 01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:10.760 I've already showed you twice. 1263 01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:12.920 We go, we gotta. I'm kidding, don't actually you you 1264 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.239 have You have said, you have said that. 1265 01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:16.679 You even't understand the arguments I'm making. 1266 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:17.280 TikTok. 1267 01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:19.840 Your argument seems to be and you restate the argument. 1268 01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:24.039 Your argument seems to be that if somebody doesn't have 1269 01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:25.280 icons in their house. 1270 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:27.960 Yeah, okay, no I didn't. That is so dumb. 1271 01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:30.199 That is you're not iconically. 1272 01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:32.800 Do you think these two gentlemen will meet you in heaven. 1273 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:36.559 We don't make personal judgments on people's destinies. All we 1274 01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:39.039 know is that we believe that the Orthodox Church is 1275 01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:41.199 the arc. It is the mystical body of Christ, and 1276 01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:43.400 so it's our duty to tell people to join it. 1277 01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:45.880 We can't say what God will judge at the end 1278 01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:47.639 of time and at the grade, So let's. 1279 01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:47.920 Put it this way. 1280 01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:50.760 Outside of them individually, you think it is, it is 1281 01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:53.360 less likely that people who don't follow your religion will 1282 01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:54.360 will find their way less likely. 1283 01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:55.880 And then and then how do you guys view it? 1284 01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.480 Catholics highly similar, almost identical view. We do believe you 1285 01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:04.320 have to be in communion with Rome, but there are 1286 01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:07.280 exceptions like baptism by desire. 1287 01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:09.440 Does everyone agree that the Holy Land belongs to Rome? 1288 01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:13.000 Rome depends on how you define Rome. 1289 01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:16.119 I think parts of the Holy Land along to Orthodox 1290 01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:19.519 Orthodox ord Our Church is the third largest landowner in Israel, 1291 01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:23.480 so technic Jerusalem patriarch, it would probably be the best claim. 1292 01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:25.880 In fact, I was half kidding. It was a joke 1293 01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:28.199 from Seamus when over the Israel Palestine debate. 1294 01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:30.800 Ye belongs to Christians. 1295 01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:32.679 I mean there was at one time in the Middle 1296 01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:35.000 Ages it was a Byzantine it was it was part 1297 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:37.039 of the Business Empire, so it was at one point 1298 01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.880 a Christian colony, so to speak. 1299 01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:43.039 Yeah, this is there's a chat here. I'm gonna read 1300 01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:46.079 that's that's I guess somewhat insulting to me. 1301 01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.679 This h Bros Says this was always the problem with 1302 01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:53.440 Tim hosting the debate. You know what's going to turn 1303 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.519 into something something he brings up with no epistemic foundation. 1304 01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:02.480 Uh my view, it's kind of like, yeah, probably because 1305 01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:06.480 I don't follow any of these religions or or I 1306 01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:09.320 do believe in God. I guess theist is probably the 1307 01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:10.519 best word, not deist. 1308 01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:11.679 But if. 1309 01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:16.039 If I can't be convinced, if you can't convince, you know, 1310 01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:18.039 if you find somebody you're like, yeah, they believe in God, 1311 01:02:18.079 --> 01:02:22.079 it's like, okay, here's why we're correct. If it's esoteric 1312 01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.920 and hard to understand and you can't easily explain why 1313 01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:28.599 your religion is correct to someone like me, and how 1314 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:29.400 do you convert people? 1315 01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:31.639 But a Muslim that's a Muslim market. Muslims will say 1316 01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:34.280 our religion is true because it's simpler. But then when 1317 01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:36.599 you get into the religion, you realize, oh, actually there's 1318 01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:38.360 a million hadiths that you got to learn, and it's 1319 01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:39.079 really complex. 1320 01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:41.519 I'm not I'm saying, how do you convince someone who 1321 01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:45.000 doesn't know about the ecumenical councils and all of that stuff. 1322 01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.280 So I hear I hear a lot of very esoteric 1323 01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:51.000 terms that I'm like, unam sanctum. 1324 01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:51.960 I don't know what that is. 1325 01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:55.440 But Jays, I'm not trying to be evangelical right now, 1326 01:02:55.519 --> 01:02:57.719 Jay is not. None of us really are trying to 1327 01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:00.280 be evangelical, because when you bring everyone into a room, 1328 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:02.679 the Catholic and the Orthodox are going to be debating 1329 01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:06.599 counsels and and specifically what the constitutions require. So it 1330 01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:09.800 sounds boring and stupid, but but it's actually important the 1331 01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:12.639 way anyone would evangelize, I guess, since you do have 1332 01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:18.559 a more secular audiences by saying Christianity is demonstrably true, 1333 01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:23.239 I was demonstrably suey generous, it's under but I'll pause on. 1334 01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:25.679 Saying I think it's probably like eighty five percent Christian 1335 01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:27.639 of different denominations that watch. 1336 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:29.719 Okay, yeah, well fair enough. 1337 01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:32.840 But then you havestually you have to ask which which 1338 01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:35.480 version of Christianity? To the eighty five percent that are 1339 01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:38.719 already convinced correctly that Christianity is true, you have to say, 1340 01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:43.119 which of the competing sex Orthodoxy is. We would say 1341 01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:46.960 a much much, much much closer have the foremarks of 1342 01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:50.360 the church and and can trace there the practice of 1343 01:03:50.360 --> 01:03:52.920 the religion today all the way back to our Lord 1344 01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:56.320 handing the keys to Blessed Peter. That's that's what we 1345 01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:58.360 would say, if we're kind of putting it in broad 1346 01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:00.800 forward facing terms. And then that's precisely way I. 1347 01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:05.760 See with with recently with the new pope. 1348 01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:09.960 He's from Chicago and a lot of Chicago jokes. But 1349 01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:14.239 there was another cardinal who had made comments about supporting 1350 01:04:14.280 --> 01:04:15.559 the LGBTQ community. 1351 01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:16.440 I forgot. 1352 01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:18.880 He was the guy from the Philippines, and there was 1353 01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:25.480 big concern over his views on overtly political cultural political issues. 1354 01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:27.679 And to me, I look at that, I'm like, how 1355 01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:32.360 how could there be truth in an ever evolving political 1356 01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:34.599 climate that tries to adhere to politics. 1357 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:37.119 Well, that's the biggest problem with Catholic Church historically is 1358 01:04:37.159 --> 01:04:39.719 it's very intertwined with politics, always has been. 1359 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.840 My personally, my opinion is that the Catholic Church is 1360 01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:48.199 trying to maintain as large a base as possible, and 1361 01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:50.320 so you end up with people like Francis and I 1362 01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:52.719 forgot the name of this guy, this Filipino guy who 1363 01:04:52.760 --> 01:04:56.239 said something like all these gay websites, I mean literally 1364 01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:58.920 gay websites, not insulting them, we're. 1365 01:04:58.639 --> 01:04:59.360 Pregnant vat. 1366 01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:03.519 Oh no, there's like pink News. 1367 01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:06.159 I think it was in like LGBT Nation or whatever. 1368 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:08.480 We're saying like, this is the good guy, he should 1369 01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:10.920 be the pope because he was saying things like it's 1370 01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:13.880 time to recognize gay marriage or whatever, or like things 1371 01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:16.000 like that, going beyond what Francis had said with blessings. 1372 01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:19.599 The Vaticanistas all said that this is what between him 1373 01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:23.239 and the Cardinal of Bologna and some of the other 1374 01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:27.119 far left cardinals that were considered papabularly popable at the 1375 01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:32.320 last conclave last month. This is specifically why they weren't selected, 1376 01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:35.400 even though they're considered most to pabaly, because we tried 1377 01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:38.519 this with Francis, and it's true. It's I would never 1378 01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:40.719 deny as probably one of one of France's is the 1379 01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:45.079 best known American lay critics who is Catholic. Uh, the 1380 01:05:45.159 --> 01:05:52.639 church is trying a bad approach to winning over converts. 1381 01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:53.639 Since a little bit. It's like we're a Vatican too. 1382 01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:56.360 And what they're actually finding now and the boomers and 1383 01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:59.519 the dinosaurs in the cardinal it are finding to their chagrin, 1384 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:02.039 is that they're they're really mad about it. France has 1385 01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:04.719 hated it. He said, these people have psychological problems. They 1386 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:06.760 like to go to the Latin mass, they like to 1387 01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:08.840 go back to the mass of the ages too. 1388 01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:10.760 That's this is what I see in the trends as well, 1389 01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.840 that we're finding that gen Z, younger gen Z, not 1390 01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:16.320 older gen Z, are finding faith in Jesus Christ. 1391 01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:19.039 That that's that That polling was not a nomination all. 1392 01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:21.559 It was just they were saying it the men are 1393 01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:25.320 leaning more conservative, and then, uh, you know, I suppose 1394 01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:27.199 it's a it's a it's a factor, and that Catholicism 1395 01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:29.960 is so big and when the pope, you know, when 1396 01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:31.760 the pope passed away and they were choosing the new pope, 1397 01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:33.480 it's the biggest story in the world, so I can 1398 01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:36.599 understand it. It just feels like they're lying to people 1399 01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:38.320 to try and build up membership numbers. 1400 01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:39.280 That's what it feels like. 1401 01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:42.679 When to get into the lies of the Roman Catholic Church, 1402 01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:47.440 this is not this is not some time that his 1403 01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:51.320 church told the world that Constantine gave them the entire 1404 01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:52.199 Western Empire. 1405 01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:55.159 To be clarify, I'm not saying this of Catholics. 1406 01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:58.280 I'm saying that that the current leadership seemed to be 1407 01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:01.480 their political strategy of we need more converts, so let's 1408 01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:02.480 say what we have to say. 1409 01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:04.599 Again, and my church is doing the opposite thing. We 1410 01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:07.000 separated from the larger church because we felt that they 1411 01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:07.519 were doing that. 1412 01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:12.800 Again, separating makes you not a part of that thing. 1413 01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:13.400 Sure was. 1414 01:07:14.440 --> 01:07:18.480 So the the point that I raised earlier about the papers. 1415 01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:21.639 Let's let's move on, Papa, we didn't separate. 1416 01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:23.159 We believe they left us. 1417 01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:24.920 And we believe they left us. 1418 01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:27.079 That's why I did an internal critique WHI you don't understand, 1419 01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:27.719 But no. 1420 01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:31.320 You didn't make your was veiled in esotery. We don't 1421 01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:32.920 say communicate, I. 1422 01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:36.320 Guess language the basically make your point on. 1423 01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:39.719 So the the issue with when I'm sonctum all the 1424 01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:42.199 way up to the Syllabus of Errors in the eighteen hundreds, 1425 01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:44.360 where you had to believe in the temporal power and 1426 01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:47.440 supremacy the Roman bishop to be saved. It was mandated 1427 01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:50.440 all that time for those centuries to be necessary to 1428 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:55.360 be saved, which the Vatican no longer believes for salvafic purposes. 1429 01:07:55.400 --> 01:07:57.960 They might theoretically still believe it, who knows, but I 1430 01:07:57.960 --> 01:08:03.079 think Vatican too contradicts that with the de Christianizing principles. 1431 01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:05.639 But the point is that ever since the Papal states, 1432 01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:08.920 ever since the eleventh century, especially with the Gregorian reforms, 1433 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:12.199 the papacy has united itself with and tied itself into 1434 01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:15.519 politics at a. 1435 01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:15.320 At an intense level. 1436 01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:17.520 And that's not all totally the fault of Rome or 1437 01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:20.800 just power seeking. You had the collapse of the Roman Empire, 1438 01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:22.960 which led to the vacuum that allowed. 1439 01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:23.800 The papacy to step in. 1440 01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:26.800 But by the time that we get to Dictatus Pope, 1441 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:28.880 just a couple of things that we have in this document. 1442 01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:32.840 The pope alone can use the imperial signa insignia. All 1443 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:34.880 princes in the world must kiss the Pope's feet. This 1444 01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:36.760 is the only name in the world. He alone may 1445 01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:40.640 depose all emperors. He alone may confirm all bishops. The 1446 01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:43.039 Roman Sea has never aired and will never air unto 1447 01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:45.159 the end of time. The Roman Church is founded by 1448 01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:48.359 God alone. The Roman Church alone can call itself universal. 1449 01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:51.640 It can alone depose the renstate bishops. Now already we've 1450 01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:54.720 seen that from Dictatus popping the eleventh century. That's a 1451 01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:58.039 contradiction with the way the councils acted and operated in 1452 01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:00.960 the first several centuries. So the Roman bishop becomes a 1453 01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:05.399 geopolitical world power, particularly in the eleventh century, comes to 1454 01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:09.159 its nader you could say, a few centuries later, and 1455 01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:13.039 it is still intimately tied up with geopolitics, because the 1456 01:09:13.039 --> 01:09:17.000 CIA had a huge alliance with the Vatican during the 1457 01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:19.640 Cold War, and at Vatican two on record and many 1458 01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:20.560 many Catholic right. 1459 01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:22.600 What explained Vatican two. 1460 01:09:23.239 --> 01:09:25.119 So this is the council in the nineteen sixties that 1461 01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:28.479 was called by John the twenty third, originally to update 1462 01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:31.680 to make the Roman See and the Roman Church more 1463 01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:35.279 amenable to the world. Ajornamento was his terminology, to open 1464 01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:38.039 the doors and let the world into the Church. 1465 01:09:39.079 --> 01:09:41.159 You would you agree with that assessmentor no? 1466 01:09:41.159 --> 01:09:43.319 No, So Vatican two was I mean, it's true that 1467 01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:45.600 it was all. It's true that it was called by 1468 01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:47.600 John the twenty third. But what happened at the end 1469 01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:51.880 of Vatican One in the eighteen seventies is the frank 1470 01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.880 Opression War interrupted it. Vatican one is famous. If we 1471 01:09:56.920 --> 01:09:58.560 look at both of the last two councils of the 1472 01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:01.960 Roman Catholic Church, Vatican one of two, they're both vastly misunderstood. 1473 01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:04.800 The reason Vatican one is vastly misunderstood is because the 1474 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:09.520 Franco Prussian War interrupted it. Literally in between the two 1475 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:12.560 goals of Vatican one laying out the power of the Pope, 1476 01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:14.680 clarifying the power of the pope as it had always 1477 01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:18.039 been for two thousand years, eighteen hundred years, and laying 1478 01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:20.119 out the power of the bishops because it is a 1479 01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:23.840 collegial relationship that the Pope has to them, even though 1480 01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:27.720 he is the prince of the apostles. It got interrupted 1481 01:10:27.760 --> 01:10:31.439 and separated by the Franco Prussian War, so Vatican two, 1482 01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:35.439 so it ended up looking by the way like just 1483 01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:37.800 the pope's powers were laid out. The powers of the 1484 01:10:37.840 --> 01:10:41.600 bishops were never at umbrated because of the sudden conclusion 1485 01:10:41.640 --> 01:10:44.840 of that. It was never actually concluded until John the 1486 01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:49.000 twenty third concluded it almost one hundred years later, eighty 1487 01:10:49.039 --> 01:10:52.119 five years later, right before he said, okay, we need 1488 01:10:52.119 --> 01:10:54.319 to have a Vatican two. Yet to what the power 1489 01:10:54.319 --> 01:10:57.319 of the bishops are was Vatican one? Vatican one laid 1490 01:10:57.319 --> 01:10:59.239 out definitively what the power. 1491 01:10:59.039 --> 01:10:59.960 Of it was like a meeting. 1492 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:03.399 Was all of these ecumenical count council, which means that 1493 01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:05.560 it was a full council of the Church called dinamper 1494 01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:09.399 not in amor no, no, it was. 1495 01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:11.640 The first seven were called by emperors, some more were 1496 01:11:11.640 --> 01:11:15.159 called by Emper's Council of Florence. Was but an ecumenical 1497 01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:17.720 just means that Ecumenical Council just. 1498 01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:20.159 Means that it's all the world, all the bishops of 1499 01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:20.840 the world. 1500 01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:25.159 Vatican one concludes, suddenly getting just to what the power 1501 01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:27.079 of the pope is, which made it gave it a 1502 01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:31.399 lopsided look our ecclesiology. Afterwards, Vatican Two needed to be 1503 01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:33.680 held to get to what the power of the bishops 1504 01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:38.079 were once we started getting more liberal popes like John 1505 01:11:38.119 --> 01:11:40.159 the twenty third and Paul the sixth, who are the 1506 01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:42.800 two popes alive during Vatican Two in the nineteen sixties, 1507 01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:46.920 they changed the agenda. Actually it was Carl Ronner and 1508 01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:50.359 Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, who a lot of people think was 1509 01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:51.479 a right winger in the church. 1510 01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:55.079 He was not. He and Ronner together changed the agenda 1511 01:11:55.520 --> 01:11:58.479 from finishing what Vatican one was supposed to do lay 1512 01:11:58.520 --> 01:12:02.319 out the power of the bishops, to what he called 1513 01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:07.560 a jornamento updating the Church doing doing essentially liberal things. Now, 1514 01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:11.359 the documents themselves are are not are not bad. The 1515 01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:16.039 documents themselves are insinuitive. Yeah, I read some of the documentary. Yeah, 1516 01:12:16.079 --> 01:12:16.640 once I get done. 1517 01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:22.399 Yeah, the documents themselves are insinuitive of a more liberal position, 1518 01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:25.279 and they were intentionally written in such a way that 1519 01:12:25.319 --> 01:12:27.680 they would be that they could be weaponized. 1520 01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:28.000 Later. 1521 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:33.039 Lots of the Council fathers that were Rhnoites admitted this, 1522 01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:37.239 things like, you know, what's our relationship to be with 1523 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.600 the Muslims? Jay Jay made reference to this earlier, what's 1524 01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:42.319 our relationship to be with the Hindus? 1525 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:43.960 And it sounded more liberal. 1526 01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:46.600 Really, what they were doing was quoting things from Pope 1527 01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:49.720 Pious the tenth, a very based older pope. They're quoting 1528 01:12:49.720 --> 01:12:54.039 even from medieval popes who acknowledged things like, technically speaking, 1529 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:59.239 the Muslims are monotheists. Technically they're one of the Western religions. 1530 01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:02.319 Technically they they worship the one True God, but they 1531 01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:04.159 worship the one True God in the false way. 1532 01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:07.800 Trads, you know, rad Trad's orthodox. 1533 01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:09.800 Everyone gets worked up about this, but it turns out 1534 01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:12.199 that this is a very very old medieval term that 1535 01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:12.880 the Church has. 1536 01:13:13.039 --> 01:13:15.439 The same for Hinduism, because the Vatican too says the 1537 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:19.760 same as they they believe. They believe not about Hindus, Hindus, 1538 01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:20.840 not moss Hindus. 1539 01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:23.880 Okay, read what it says about Hinduss. 1540 01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:26.880 In Hinduism, people explore the divine mystery and explore and 1541 01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:27.680 express it. 1542 01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:30.640 How do you explore the true mystery of God? 1543 01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:35.159 You can explore what you're looking for, explore Christianity. 1544 01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:37.079 It's absolutely don't explore. 1545 01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:38.039 Christianity and Hinduism. 1546 01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:40.720 They seek release from the trials of present life through 1547 01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:45.079 ascetic practices and meditation and recourse to God in confidence. 1548 01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:47.680 I agree, all that's bad, but you miss so it's 1549 01:13:47.720 --> 01:13:51.079 bad my uncle Remus. Wait wait, my uncle Remus believes 1550 01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:52.800 dogs like your uncle can fly. 1551 01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.079 No, this is your dogmatic statements that are supposed to 1552 01:13:55.279 --> 01:13:58.840 provide clarity. Right, they need to be interpreted by you 1553 01:13:58.840 --> 01:13:59.680 because are ambiguous. 1554 01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:02.680 No, No, are they clear or ambiguous? Perfectly clear? They're Hindu? 1555 01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:05.520 Will you just said it was bad? It was bad? Wait? 1556 01:14:06.279 --> 01:14:07.239 Was it clear or bad? 1557 01:14:07.319 --> 01:14:07.800 You finished? 1558 01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:08.119 Jail? 1559 01:14:08.159 --> 01:14:09.159 I'll go after you're done. 1560 01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:10.800 They have recourse to God. 1561 01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:13.520 God will do the same thing. So just again that 1562 01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:16.800 we have said of colection irrelevant. What that's a direct object, 1563 01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:19.880 that's a genetic facis object genetic fallacy to say that 1564 01:14:19.920 --> 01:14:23.560 because it is you just said, I don't know, so 1565 01:14:24.600 --> 01:14:28.520 appealed authority, appealed authority and genetic fallacy. Other fallacy. They 1566 01:14:28.600 --> 01:14:32.880 believe you're King of fallacy record say they believe you're lying? 1567 01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:34.800 You added that explode? Where does it say they do that? 1568 01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:35.159 Read? 1569 01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:38.960 It says that they seek release, and they have recourse 1570 01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:41.880 to God in confidence and the seek they have recourse, No, 1571 01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:44.720 and have recourse. They seek and have recourse? 1572 01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:44.960 Okay? 1573 01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:48.760 And what he say and recourse and recourse? 1574 01:14:49.279 --> 01:14:49.760 What does that mean? 1575 01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:52.359 Recourse they have? They seek in. 1576 01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:57.279 They cantafidence and love in God. I'll speak once he's done. 1577 01:14:57.359 --> 01:14:59.439 So what in the Amatican two documents. 1578 01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:00.680 That I was very hones By the way, it's a 1579 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:02.079 genetic fallacy. 1580 01:15:02.079 --> 01:15:02.760 Can I see the book? 1581 01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:03.119 Yeah? 1582 01:15:03.279 --> 01:15:08.439 Yeah, read the sentence here, let me read it again 1583 01:15:08.479 --> 01:15:11.560 for you. In the relations is going to keep it. 1584 01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:14.880 In the religion of Hinduism, people explore the divine mystery, 1585 01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:16.359 explore thank you. 1586 01:15:16.479 --> 01:15:17.119 I just said that. 1587 01:15:17.199 --> 01:15:19.119 It doesn't mean they found to repeat each word after 1588 01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:19.720 I say each. 1589 01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:22.319 What have you said? Ascertained? If they said ascertained, we'd 1590 01:15:22.319 --> 01:15:22.960 have a hard time. 1591 01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:24.319 So he doesn't want me to read the whole quote 1592 01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:28.319 because he knows the the difference. 1593 01:15:28.479 --> 01:15:30.560 In Hindu God, it is very real. 1594 01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:33.600 They have recourse to God in confidence and love. 1595 01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:40.640 They start the sentence over, they seek Jay thinks that 1596 01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:45.600 the sentence said that the Hindu's ascertained, heaven ascertained. 1597 01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:49.039 It says that through exploring it. But you said it 1598 01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:50.159 was a bad statement earlier. 1599 01:15:50.520 --> 01:15:52.279 No, no, no, I said, no, no, it's not that's 1600 01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:56.600 from read the document. I'm saying that it's very easy 1601 01:15:56.600 --> 01:16:00.359 to misinterpret if I say, mine, my dear old uncle remus. 1602 01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:03.279 Why why do we need you to interpret the document? 1603 01:16:03.319 --> 01:16:04.960 You're saying, why do we need you to interpret the 1604 01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:09.880 doctas you to interpret the doc the logic professor keeps 1605 01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:10.560 making fallacies. 1606 01:16:11.720 --> 01:16:12.439 Let me read what I thought. 1607 01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:14.079 Why do you need to interpret them? 1608 01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:14.800 Let me read it. 1609 01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:17.439 There's a paragraph before that one I want to read. 1610 01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:19.119 I want to I just want to read the full paragraph. 1611 01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:22.279 Or actually this is part of the full paragraph. It says, 1612 01:16:22.279 --> 01:16:24.439 throughout history to the present day, there is found among 1613 01:16:24.479 --> 01:16:27.359 different peoples a certain awareness of a hidden power which 1614 01:16:27.399 --> 01:16:29.560 lies behind the course of nature and the events of 1615 01:16:29.640 --> 01:16:32.760 human life. At times, there is present even a recognition 1616 01:16:33.199 --> 01:16:35.920 of a supreme being, or still more of a father. 1617 01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:38.880 This awareness and recognition results in a way of life 1618 01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:41.920 that is imbued with a deep religious sense. The religions 1619 01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:44.960 which are found in more advanced civilizations endeavor by way 1620 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:48.800 of well defined concepts and exact language to answer these questions. 1621 01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:51.680 Thus, in Hinduism, people. 1622 01:16:51.439 --> 01:16:54.079 Explore the divine mystery and express it both in the 1623 01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:58.439 limitless riches of myth and the accurately defined insights of philosophy. 1624 01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:01.279 They seek release from the trials of the present life 1625 01:17:01.279 --> 01:17:05.720 by ascetical practices, profound meditation, and recourse to God in 1626 01:17:05.760 --> 01:17:09.840 confidence and love. Buddhism, in its various forms, testing costs 1627 01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:12.760 to God to the essential inadequacy of this changing world. 1628 01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:15.119 It proposes a way of life by which people can, 1629 01:17:15.199 --> 01:17:18.279 with confidence and trust, attain a state of perfect liberation 1630 01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:21.600 and reach supreme elimination, either through their own efforts or 1631 01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:24.720 with divine help. So to other religions which are found 1632 01:17:24.720 --> 01:17:27.680 throughout the world, attempt in different ways to overcome the 1633 01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:31.439 restlessness of people's hearts by outlining a program of life 1634 01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:34.600 covering doctrine, moral precepts, and sacred rights. 1635 01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:36.960 Yeah, this is our perfect liberation in hindu and. 1636 01:17:37.960 --> 01:17:39.520 Real quick, I do want to read this little bit. 1637 01:17:39.920 --> 01:17:41.239 I didn't want to read the one paragphy. There's a 1638 01:17:41.239 --> 01:17:42.199 little bit more that I think is interesting. 1639 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:43.159 You already said it's bad. 1640 01:17:43.239 --> 01:17:43.920 It goes on. 1641 01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:53.000 Again another fallacy at hominem fallacies. 1642 01:17:53.560 --> 01:17:56.119 It actually says here we have im mute, but immediately. 1643 01:17:55.680 --> 01:17:58.199 Follow because he's calling out, I'm calling out the logic professor. 1644 01:17:58.680 --> 01:18:01.640 I just want to point out that by and okay, sorry, sorry, 1645 01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:04.920 but immediately following this parer, what says the Catholic Church 1646 01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:08.079 rejects nothing of what is true and wholly. 1647 01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:08.800 In these religions. 1648 01:18:09.159 --> 01:18:11.119 It is a high regard for the manner of life 1649 01:18:11.159 --> 01:18:15.000 and conduct conduct, the precepts and doctrines, which, although differing 1650 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.760 in many ways from its own teaching, nevertheless often reflect 1651 01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:20.920 array of that truth which enlightens all men and women. 1652 01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:24.239 Yet it proclaims it is in duty bound to proclaim 1653 01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:26.640 without fail Christ, who is the way the truth in 1654 01:18:26.720 --> 01:18:30.039 life in Him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself. 1655 01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:32.399 People find the fullness of their religious life. 1656 01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:34.600 Thank you. 1657 01:18:35.319 --> 01:18:37.560 That shows contradiction. No, that doesn't help you. 1658 01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:40.399 I actually agree with with the Catholic view. 1659 01:18:40.600 --> 01:18:43.960 It's basically saying the way I interpret that, it's saying 1660 01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:46.319 Hindus and Buddhists are looking through a keyhole and seeing 1661 01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:49.760 these fragments that they're not quite understanding properly and if 1662 01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:52.000 they were to adhere to Jesus Christ and find the way. 1663 01:18:52.039 --> 01:18:57.159 The problem, the even liberals at the Council, problem is 1664 01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:00.359 that only written by John fourteen, Jesus says that He's 1665 01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:03.279 the only way right, the truth in the life. But 1666 01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:05.560 I understand that the problem is that you cannot. It 1667 01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:09.479 says in the religions of Hinduism and Buddhism, men find 1668 01:19:09.720 --> 01:19:12.079 love in God and they find they seek lo the 1669 01:19:12.319 --> 01:19:14.760 know it says they find it. They believe they fine 1670 01:19:14.840 --> 01:19:17.520 phrase says seek it. Then it says they find it. 1671 01:19:17.439 --> 01:19:17.880 Just like I said. 1672 01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:19.920 Read it again, just like it says Muslims adore the 1673 01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:24.920 one God. Well, well, Muslims are different because the religion, No, 1674 01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:25.239 they're not. 1675 01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:27.239 Do they believe religion? You believe? 1676 01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:29.439 Do they believe in one God or multiple? They believe 1677 01:19:29.439 --> 01:19:33.800 in monos the Bible teach. Does the Bible teach the 1678 01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:37.800 Trinity or Monotheism the Trinity? But so the Muslims don't 1679 01:19:37.800 --> 01:19:38.600 believe in the God of the Bible. 1680 01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:39.000 You know that? 1681 01:19:39.079 --> 01:19:41.680 Do you know what the sense reference dichotomy? 1682 01:19:41.920 --> 01:19:42.079 That? 1683 01:19:42.119 --> 01:19:43.239 Okay, I have a question. 1684 01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:46.239 So if you understand what sense referenced dichotomy, okay, we 1685 01:19:46.279 --> 01:19:47.920 can be referring to the thing. 1686 01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:49.479 Does Jesus describe it as yellow? 1687 01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:53.239 And we're still reserting to say that the Pharisees misunderstanding 1688 01:19:53.279 --> 01:19:54.079 this reference. 1689 01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:58.439 Does Jesus think that the Pharisees accurately worship the Father? 1690 01:19:59.239 --> 01:19:59.920 No, of course not. 1691 01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:04.239 Then then that undoes your argument, un does your Muslim 1692 01:20:04.319 --> 01:20:07.159 lane Because you said you understand the sense reference dichotomy. 1693 01:20:07.359 --> 01:20:11.600 Explain how by sense ans risk affirmative and by reference 1694 01:20:11.720 --> 01:20:13.960 it would be a negative answer. We can be referring 1695 01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:16.600 to the same thing. If you think Cleveland doesn't and 1696 01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:16.960 I think. 1697 01:20:16.920 --> 01:20:18.960 They disprove your sense reference argument, and we're not that 1698 01:20:19.039 --> 01:20:20.800 you want to just prove your sense the question, I 1699 01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:25.159 can disprove it by Muslims sense reference. Do Mormons believe 1700 01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:29.159 in Jesus? No, but Mormons don't believe. Do they use 1701 01:20:29.199 --> 01:20:30.079 the term Jesus? 1702 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:34.880 No, yes, they're not use the terms absolutely, Mormons use 1703 01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:37.880 the term Wait, wait, wait, norm. 1704 01:20:39.199 --> 01:20:42.159 Mormons believe Jesus is I'm the one guy that hasn't 1705 01:20:42.199 --> 01:20:45.960 been interrupting. So Mormons believes that there is a historical Jesus. 1706 01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:49.159 He believes that he that that Mormons Jesus is not 1707 01:20:49.239 --> 01:20:49.960 the son of gods. 1708 01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:52.039 I know what they believe religion. 1709 01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:54.560 So just like Muslims, if they say I believe in 1710 01:20:54.560 --> 01:20:56.840 the One God, it's the quantifier shift fallacy. 1711 01:20:57.279 --> 01:20:59.600 No, that's just the quantity that's true. But that's what 1712 01:20:59.680 --> 01:21:02.760 the document is. The quantifier shift fallacy. Then that undoes 1713 01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:03.479 what what does that mean? 1714 01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:04.000 What does that mean? 1715 01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:06.039 So it's like if I say I have one mother, 1716 01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:08.640 you have one mother. We all have one mother, therefore 1717 01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:11.359 we come from the same mother. It's a quantifying shift fallacy. 1718 01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:14.520 So one God, what we all believe in, one God, 1719 01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:17.199 Therefore it's the same God. Vatican two is using the 1720 01:21:17.279 --> 01:21:18.279 quantifier shift fallacy. 1721 01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:20.119 Read the line. 1722 01:21:20.359 --> 01:21:23.359 Read the line that you think is false definitively, because 1723 01:21:23.359 --> 01:21:25.560 there are no definitive statements you've read that are false. 1724 01:21:25.680 --> 01:21:32.119 Notice that seeking, searching, exploring need. It was just retarded. 1725 01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:32.920 Just retard. 1726 01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:34.800 The quarts shift fallacy is retarded, I think. 1727 01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:38.439 Okay, guys, guys, no claim that there's something false you 1728 01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:39.520 just read. It is retarded. 1729 01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:40.520 Okay, let me, let me. 1730 01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:43.680 Let's written by liberals. I gave you that it's written 1731 01:21:43.680 --> 01:21:45.960 by liberals. But it's supposed to clarify. So the paper 1732 01:21:46.760 --> 01:21:49.199 does the job of clarifying. But it's written by liberals, 1733 01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:51.000 and we need him to interpret it for you don't 1734 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:54.199 need me to interpret anything. I'm defending against an attack 1735 01:21:54.279 --> 01:21:57.439 that you're making. That's that's common miscar. 1736 01:21:57.399 --> 01:21:59.680 One true God, living and subsisting in himself. 1737 01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:07.319 Yeah, yea fallas with two bargaining dogs. 1738 01:22:07.359 --> 01:22:11.319 Every time Muslims claimed how about this, Muslims claim to 1739 01:22:11.359 --> 01:22:12.000 believe in one. 1740 01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:14.279 It doesn't say it says they adore. It doesn't say 1741 01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:14.640 they claim. 1742 01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:19.680 Muslims the words now they adore the sense reference dichotomy. 1743 01:22:19.800 --> 01:22:23.359 Right, okay, wait, wait, wait, hold on, I want to 1744 01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:24.520 read this. 1745 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:25.239 This is important. 1746 01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:28.119 It's as the Church also has a high regard for 1747 01:22:28.199 --> 01:22:32.840 the Muslims. They worship God, who is one living and 1748 01:22:34.439 --> 01:22:38.359 I'm not I said, I'm not done, the creator of 1749 01:22:38.359 --> 01:22:40.840 having an earth, who was also spoken to humanity. They 1750 01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:43.359 endeavor to submit themselves without reserve, to the hidden decrees 1751 01:22:43.399 --> 01:22:45.439 of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plans 1752 01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:48.960 and whose faith Muslims eagerly linked to their own, although 1753 01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:53.119 not acknowledging him as God. They venerate Jesus, a prophet, 1754 01:22:53.439 --> 01:22:55.760 his virgin mother. They also honor and even at times 1755 01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:58.119 devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and 1756 01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:01.079 the reward of the reward of God following the resurrection 1757 01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:04.199 of the dead. For this reason, they highly esteem and 1758 01:23:04.439 --> 01:23:07.880 upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer. 1759 01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:09.880 Alms, deeds, and fasting. It. 1760 01:23:09.880 --> 01:23:13.000 It does seem like they're saying, as far as I 1761 01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:15.439 can tell, Muslims are worshiping the same God. 1762 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:18.239 Yes, well, yes, this is This is a community college 1763 01:23:18.479 --> 01:23:20.359 primer on intro to religions and. 1764 01:23:20.920 --> 01:23:22.199 How you couldn't get quantified ship. 1765 01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:25.640 It's in your Islam is literally one of the three 1766 01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:27.359 monotheisms in Western religion. 1767 01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:30.119 Is it trying? No, It's not the God of the Bible. 1768 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.520 According to you, I said, the Bible God is the Trinity. No, yes, 1769 01:23:33.560 --> 01:23:35.279 you did. Well, of course you don't think. I think 1770 01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:36.600 the Bible God is the Trinity. 1771 01:23:36.640 --> 01:23:38.880 Then the Muslims don't worship the same God because of 1772 01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:40.079 the quantifier shift fallacy. 1773 01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:42.520 The Muslims don't worship the same God. Doesn't say the 1774 01:23:42.560 --> 01:23:43.800 same God as US books says. 1775 01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:45.279 They do, thank you, thank you. 1776 01:23:46.960 --> 01:23:48.439 They don't worship the same. 1777 01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:50.760 God, Muslim, Are you serious? 1778 01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:53.000 What's going on? Heresion? 1779 01:23:53.039 --> 01:23:55.840 They worship God who is living and subsisting in the 1780 01:23:56.039 --> 01:23:58.319 same marciful Almighty Creator. 1781 01:23:58.399 --> 01:24:02.319 No, you said the same God as USU US. It 1782 01:24:02.359 --> 01:24:03.079 doesn't say us. 1783 01:24:03.319 --> 01:24:05.359 Also, it doesn't say us. Are you serious, dude? 1784 01:24:05.399 --> 01:24:08.640 Muslims worship how many? How many gods do Muslims worship? 1785 01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:12.239 Say jay dire? How many gods do Muslims worship? 1786 01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:12.600 Worship? 1787 01:24:12.800 --> 01:24:13.800 How many do they worship? 1788 01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:16.520 By the way, one or two or three? I don't 1789 01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:19.680 believe in generic monotheism. That's a that's a word that. 1790 01:24:19.640 --> 01:24:20.640 It's the distinction. 1791 01:24:21.119 --> 01:24:22.479 I also don't agree. 1792 01:24:22.760 --> 01:24:25.119 I believe it's the quantifiership fallacy. 1793 01:24:25.880 --> 01:24:28.640 One thing you tell me you don't believe that they 1794 01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:29.920 believe they worship one. 1795 01:24:29.800 --> 01:24:32.279 God doesn't matter because the statement is that you said 1796 01:24:32.279 --> 01:24:35.920 you understood the sense right the god worship. They do 1797 01:24:36.039 --> 01:24:38.920 worship one true God, tim But what you're equippling over 1798 01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:41.560 failing is whether or not you're melting the verb and 1799 01:24:41.560 --> 01:24:44.640 the direct object there are in agreement. You don't need 1800 01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:47.039 a grammar lesson literally, you do need a grammar less 1801 01:24:48.359 --> 01:24:49.000 logic professor. 1802 01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:50.439 You couldn't do the quantifiership fellaws. 1803 01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:53.600 This guy doesn't know that Islam claims to worship one. 1804 01:24:53.680 --> 01:24:55.880 It doesn't say they just claim it. It says they do it. 1805 01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:59.439 Says they worship God, not they the Church, the Roman 1806 01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:02.039 Catholic Church, which has always acknowledged this is the Romance, 1807 01:25:02.359 --> 01:25:06.079 but since the tenth since two different medieval popes that 1808 01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:10.199 Muslims want to worship some in some sense the same God, 1809 01:25:10.399 --> 01:25:15.840 different reference. Grammatically, grammatically, this is very straightforward. They worship God, 1810 01:25:16.039 --> 01:25:18.560 not a God. They worship God and even the One 1811 01:25:18.640 --> 01:25:23.000 True God. The Church, they worship God, who is one, 1812 01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:24.199 living and subsistence. 1813 01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:25.079 I'm not. 1814 01:25:26.600 --> 01:25:29.039 Orthodox. I'm just saying what the Church is always taught. 1815 01:25:29.159 --> 01:25:32.520 That is the That is them saying, couldn't worship our God? 1816 01:25:32.600 --> 01:25:36.479 Have you address the argument? Then argument would. 1817 01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:40.439 Said on Islam, Tim you would be right to God arguments. 1818 01:25:40.479 --> 01:25:43.119 What I can read you from the personal piet Advice 1819 01:25:43.199 --> 01:25:53.039 the Ten Catechism that he says the One True God. 1820 01:25:49.720 --> 01:25:52.680 Doesn't represent okay, guys, guys. 1821 01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:55.880 And it doesn't represent okay. Where it doesn't represent. 1822 01:25:56.039 --> 01:26:00.680 Okay, guys, guys. The conversation is not advancing, and one 1823 01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:05.600 questions years it's I think it's actually been pretty pretty 1824 01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:06.039 pretty good. 1825 01:26:06.079 --> 01:26:09.800 Actually, what what I interpret from that is that they 1826 01:26:09.840 --> 01:26:13.119 were trying to say there is one true God, and 1827 01:26:13.159 --> 01:26:16.560 even in that regard, they're saying other religions are seeing 1828 01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:19.479 it improperly and doing it wrong, like looking like the 1829 01:26:19.760 --> 01:26:21.359 argument is you look through a key hole. 1830 01:26:22.399 --> 01:26:23.399 I think that's what it's saying. 1831 01:26:23.439 --> 01:26:26.479 It's saying that Muslims are looking through a hole and 1832 01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:28.720 they're seeing something tiny and they're not doing it right. 1833 01:26:28.840 --> 01:26:30.359 Hindus are looking through a different hole. 1834 01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:33.079 So I I think the argument of the of the 1835 01:26:33.319 --> 01:26:35.960 of Vetiicanto is there is only one true God. 1836 01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:37.279 Everyone else is looking at it wrong. 1837 01:26:37.720 --> 01:26:42.800 Written by Jesuits liberal, So now their church created the 1838 01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:45.199 Jesuits bad again, that was on that So from the 1839 01:26:45.279 --> 01:26:50.399 orthodox person, yes, the Jesuits are from the flesh. From 1840 01:26:50.399 --> 01:26:53.600 the complained about them and said they're too liberal. Yes, 1841 01:26:53.760 --> 01:26:57.640 that's that's a well known Catholic. Catholics can Catholics can 1842 01:26:57.680 --> 01:27:00.880 be too liberal and it's prodience Episcopal the Yeah, they 1843 01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:02.800 have an ecclesiology. Stay we also have. 1844 01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:05.159 I got a question. 1845 01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:11.079 Trendsliberal. It doesn't mean that they're Protestants. Well, you also 1846 01:27:11.119 --> 01:27:12.800 expelled them because they were liberals. 1847 01:27:13.239 --> 01:27:15.319 It's the one thing that an agree on is that 1848 01:27:15.359 --> 01:27:17.439 the Episcopal Church is the inferior church. 1849 01:27:17.520 --> 01:27:18.680 The Episcopal Church sucks. 1850 01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:20.239 Do you all agree? 1851 01:27:20.279 --> 01:27:21.479 Yeah? Yeah, for sure. 1852 01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:23.760 Sure, so I want to I want to highlight too 1853 01:27:23.800 --> 01:27:25.920 that I think Tim will have to admit this that 1854 01:27:26.079 --> 01:27:28.920 post Vatican Two, we can see the actions of the Papa, 1855 01:27:29.000 --> 01:27:32.119 see how they interpret this document, because they in many 1856 01:27:32.199 --> 01:27:35.760 cases literally will go pray in mosque towards Mecca. The 1857 01:27:36.279 --> 01:27:39.319 sixteenth did it. Also, John Paul the second did it. Uh, 1858 01:27:39.359 --> 01:27:42.840 excuse me? A saint and Francis both did this where 1859 01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:45.960 they went to the moss. They reverently prayed towards Mecca. 1860 01:27:46.279 --> 01:27:49.520 That's an outward expression of the interior disposition in Roman 1861 01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:51.319 Catholic moral theology of their faith. 1862 01:27:51.920 --> 01:27:54.239 The way that they're not dogmatic. 1863 01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:56.039 That's Vatican is not dogmatic. 1864 01:27:56.239 --> 01:27:58.960 No, No, Vatican two is dogmatic. The Pope's going in 1865 01:27:59.079 --> 01:28:03.000 and praise stupid expresses. It expresses their faith. 1866 01:28:03.039 --> 01:28:04.560 That's of Constantinople. 1867 01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:06.159 I think I think he's heretic. I don't have a 1868 01:28:06.159 --> 01:28:08.000 problem saying his heretic. Okay, but you can't say that. 1869 01:28:08.079 --> 01:28:09.359 You can't say the pope's a heretic. 1870 01:28:10.119 --> 01:28:13.000 Uh, Francis Francis was a material heretic. We don't know 1871 01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:14.239 yet if he's a formal. 1872 01:28:14.039 --> 01:28:17.159 No one judges the first sea, do you. 1873 01:28:16.600 --> 01:28:18.840 No one has judged the first Sea. Yet who cares 1874 01:28:18.960 --> 01:28:19.840 you're judging it now? 1875 01:28:19.880 --> 01:28:24.640 Cardinals in seven fifty says that lady does not have 1876 01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:26.680 the right to judge the bishops and the sea. 1877 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:27.319 Not judging him. 1878 01:28:27.359 --> 01:28:28.159 That means you just said. 1879 01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:31.800 A material heretics a formal judging. 1880 01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:32.680 I know what it means. 1881 01:28:32.680 --> 01:28:35.159 Of course you don't have authority, but it also means 1882 01:28:35.159 --> 01:28:36.439 that you don't have It says that you have to 1883 01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:38.479 submit with docility to the to the rulings of the 1884 01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:39.199 ordinary teaching. 1885 01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:40.800 Of course that's not it. 1886 01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:43.800 You don't get to action, then you don't get in 1887 01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:48.159 conformity with the liberal view, with the liberal misinterpretation. 1888 01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:49.760 You can't just talk over it. 1889 01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:54.119 Did the council judgement the intentional liberal misinterpretation of those 1890 01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:58.000 passages you read which I'm interpret Wait wait, tim interpreted 1891 01:28:58.039 --> 01:29:02.239 correctly so he can by popes and and I'll admiss. 1892 01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:05.920 I'll just say this, Uh, that which I read is 1893 01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:07.680 more convincing to me. 1894 01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:09.159 Of the Catholics. 1895 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:12.199 Well, I would agree, if not for the fact that 1896 01:29:12.239 --> 01:29:15.000 it says Muslims worship the same God. It doesn't say 1897 01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:22.479 same God. Yes, the word saying literally the one God. 1898 01:29:23.079 --> 01:29:25.840 It does rammatically making up who's the creator? 1899 01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:27.000 To wait, who's the creator? 1900 01:29:27.239 --> 01:29:30.359 Does it say same? The creator says they worship God. 1901 01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:34.640 People out there this passage is the creator. 1902 01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:36.960 The microphone if no one else, if people keep talking, Uh, 1903 01:29:37.079 --> 01:29:37.880 I think it's correct. 1904 01:29:38.239 --> 01:29:40.720 Okay, but I think I think Muslims do worship God. 1905 01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:41.199 They don't. 1906 01:29:41.319 --> 01:29:42.399 They don't, but our God. 1907 01:29:42.520 --> 01:29:45.159 So he already admitted and so that says capital G God. 1908 01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:46.720 That's why this is convincing to me. And you guys 1909 01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:47.439 aren't being convincing. 1910 01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:51.199 Again God, if it said a God, I agree with you, 1911 01:29:51.239 --> 01:29:53.359 but it's because I I think believe there's a God 1912 01:29:53.399 --> 01:29:53.960 besides God. 1913 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:54.479 I think there is. 1914 01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:57.479 That's the sense reference dichotomy right there. So you believe 1915 01:29:57.520 --> 01:29:59.880 there's another god besides God. So the popes pray in 1916 01:30:00.359 --> 01:30:03.000 You just said you believe they worship You're what I 1917 01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:04.119 said God? 1918 01:30:04.319 --> 01:30:07.279 I said. If if it said they worship a god, 1919 01:30:07.520 --> 01:30:11.199 as is important, they believe they're worshiping a God who 1920 01:30:11.239 --> 01:30:11.760 is similar. 1921 01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:14.359 No, no, no, not, they believe they really do. Remember that's them. 1922 01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:16.000 Wait wait, wait is an argument? 1923 01:30:16.119 --> 01:30:16.239 Now? 1924 01:30:16.359 --> 01:30:16.960 Your text? 1925 01:30:17.119 --> 01:30:17.880 It's your text? 1926 01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:18.319 Yeah? 1927 01:30:18.359 --> 01:30:20.119 You literally, I know it's I know it's my text. 1928 01:30:20.119 --> 01:30:22.680 You literally what would make all the difference is if 1929 01:30:22.720 --> 01:30:25.479 they said that the Muslims worship a God rather than 1930 01:30:25.520 --> 01:30:28.720 a God. You're making reference to the sense reference ecotomy 1931 01:30:28.800 --> 01:30:30.159 by saying a no. 1932 01:30:30.359 --> 01:30:31.640 That's why you can answer. 1933 01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:36.640 You're not understanding what I said, or you're not understanding 1934 01:30:36.840 --> 01:30:40.079 I'm not deliberately misrepresenting anything I'm saying, and you don't 1935 01:30:40.119 --> 01:30:40.960 understand what I said. 1936 01:30:41.039 --> 01:30:45.880 This sense reference dichotomy literally covers whether God or. 1937 01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:48.000 Sense referenced dichotomy. This is grammar. 1938 01:30:48.359 --> 01:30:49.640 Do you know what it is? Yes? 1939 01:30:49.680 --> 01:30:53.279 Okay, guys, this is grammar. It's a grammatical tandation. Tim 1940 01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:54.520 understands it's the same God. 1941 01:30:54.760 --> 01:30:59.439 He okay, he is not not say it does worship 1942 01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:00.920 God appital g God. 1943 01:31:00.920 --> 01:31:03.520 I'm going to quote my friend Jay Dyer who says 1944 01:31:03.720 --> 01:31:06.960 that this passage says same God, not one God. 1945 01:31:06.880 --> 01:31:07.640 Who's the creator? 1946 01:31:07.640 --> 01:31:10.119 Tim, same God would be Tim, who's the creator. 1947 01:31:10.439 --> 01:31:12.239 The same God would be inxical. 1948 01:31:12.479 --> 01:31:14.560 So why are you being dishonesed? You're being dishonest? 1949 01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:20.880 Tim, literally, come on, man, come the thea he can't answer, 1950 01:31:21.039 --> 01:31:23.079 I understand, understand the philosophy and. 1951 01:31:23.239 --> 01:31:26.239 Melting down and coping because he can't answer create at all. 1952 01:31:26.600 --> 01:31:30.640 You made heretic twenty minutes ago, and I agree with Muslims. 1953 01:31:30.119 --> 01:31:33.159 Worship the same God as us would be buying. Indexical 1954 01:31:33.800 --> 01:31:36.880 means that it says if he used the word same. 1955 01:31:36.760 --> 01:31:38.000 It would you want the attributes. 1956 01:31:38.039 --> 01:31:38.840 It would be heresy. 1957 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:41.399 And that's why I said it wasn't natural theology. But 1958 01:31:41.439 --> 01:31:43.880 it says that they worship one God, then it would 1959 01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:46.199 be correct. It says they do worship one God. 1960 01:31:46.279 --> 01:31:51.159 They worship God who is one, living and subsisting in himself, merciful, 1961 01:31:51.239 --> 01:31:52.760 arm Almarighty and the Creator. 1962 01:31:52.880 --> 01:31:56.800 Sure I'm breaking the Muslim view. I don't know. Again, 1963 01:31:56.840 --> 01:31:59.239 you know what if he said just a God, they'd 1964 01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:00.800 beading the Muslim viea. 1965 01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:04.960 But they say lumin Gentium sixteen says they adore the 1966 01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:08.399 one God. That's a term of worship, the one God. 1967 01:32:08.479 --> 01:32:11.199 They adore the one God, and said this in his 1968 01:32:11.279 --> 01:32:12.520 personal catechism. 1969 01:32:13.640 --> 01:32:14.359 And too medieval. 1970 01:32:15.560 --> 01:32:17.680 You could take issue with the Roman Catholic position. As 1971 01:32:17.720 --> 01:32:19.680 an Orthodox, that's what you should do, but you can't 1972 01:32:19.720 --> 01:32:23.039 say Church has change them. The document that's contradicting is 1973 01:32:23.079 --> 01:32:23.520 the argument. 1974 01:32:23.840 --> 01:32:24.520 We don't care about. 1975 01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:27.920 The document doesn't contradict Catholicism. It might contradict Jay Dyer 1976 01:32:28.199 --> 01:32:29.399 or no the. 1977 01:32:29.520 --> 01:32:31.520 Document itself contradicts what you said earlier. 1978 01:32:31.680 --> 01:32:35.760 Does Catholicism hold that Islam is the same as Christianity? 1979 01:32:36.039 --> 01:32:38.000 Do you know what a precept is? What a logical 1980 01:32:38.039 --> 01:32:38.640 axiom is. 1981 01:32:38.960 --> 01:32:43.239 Logical axioms are pre scriptural, so literally the sense referenced 1982 01:32:43.279 --> 01:32:46.680 dichotomy or the concept of proportional cause. 1983 01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:48.479 These are things which are which. 1984 01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:54.600 Pre so sophiety to explain something you don't understand. No, 1985 01:32:54.720 --> 01:32:57.359 you didn't know that. You didn't understand this. Five fallacies 1986 01:32:57.359 --> 01:32:59.880 in a row. You said the same. That would be 1987 01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:05.000 they text, because that's what the argument of the text is. 1988 01:33:05.840 --> 01:33:08.079 They adore the one God in Lumit genty of sixteen. 1989 01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:11.399 In order argument to be cool, they have to not 1990 01:33:11.439 --> 01:33:12.239 be a proper Now. 1991 01:33:14.800 --> 01:33:16.439 We're gonna have to We're gonna have to want everybody 1992 01:33:16.520 --> 01:33:17.159 know they don't. 1993 01:33:17.279 --> 01:33:19.359 I believe that is a is a PI that testing 1994 01:33:19.399 --> 01:33:25.199 it is he muting everybody. I don't, okay, I don't 1995 01:33:25.239 --> 01:33:28.039 know what y'all are arguing at this point. 1996 01:33:28.319 --> 01:33:31.119 I just I just hear noise is here yelling. 1997 01:33:31.800 --> 01:33:35.199 Well the moment, the moment anyone talks someone else, everyone 1998 01:33:35.199 --> 01:33:37.720 else's talking. And then when I was asking a question, 1999 01:33:37.840 --> 01:33:39.840 you guys started having a different debate at the same 2000 01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:40.399 that's fair. 2001 01:33:41.239 --> 01:33:45.039 That's a fair point. Can I say what I perceive 2002 01:33:45.119 --> 01:33:46.920 the argument to me is somebody who's kind of outside 2003 01:33:46.960 --> 01:33:47.079 of it. 2004 01:33:47.439 --> 01:33:48.840 Let's just let them let him say it. 2005 01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:51.960 And then what I'm hearing from Jay is that that 2006 01:33:52.159 --> 01:33:56.840 passage reads that Muslims, by what the passage says, not literally, 2007 01:33:57.000 --> 01:34:00.239 Muslims worship the same God that we do. Because it 2008 01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:04.600 says they worship God capital G proper noun. And then 2009 01:34:04.640 --> 01:34:08.079 that is followed up with a description of the Christian God. 2010 01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:11.640 You are saying that this is correct because they do 2011 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:16.720 believe they worship the same God as us. Therefore it's 2012 01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:19.840 not incorrect. I would argue if it said they worship 2013 01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:23.520 a God, you would be correct. Drammatically, it says they 2014 01:34:23.520 --> 01:34:27.079 worship does God exist outside of it? Doesn't matter. They 2015 01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:30.039 are worshiping something you're not talking about. I'm talking about reference. 2016 01:34:30.560 --> 01:34:33.279 There's another quote that answer, So yeah, read that next quote. 2017 01:34:33.359 --> 01:34:36.119 Please don't interrupt, Luminingentians. I have a thought on this. 2018 01:34:36.199 --> 01:34:39.079 So there's another statement beyond Nosratate three, which is lumin 2019 01:34:39.119 --> 01:34:42.800 Gentium sixteen. It says the plan of salvation includes those 2020 01:34:42.800 --> 01:34:46.279 that acknowledge the Creator. First among whom are the Muslims. 2021 01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:50.880 They profess the faith of Abraham, and together with us 2022 01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:52.079 Catholics they adore. 2023 01:34:51.800 --> 01:34:54.279 The One True God that refute. 2024 01:34:53.840 --> 01:34:55.520 You anyway. 2025 01:34:57.119 --> 01:35:00.359 With us topics, together with us for future entire argument, 2026 01:35:00.399 --> 01:35:03.840 the last twenty Together with US Catholics. 2027 01:35:03.880 --> 01:35:08.000 Okay, afterwards, Okay, together with us who are they referring. 2028 01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:11.600 To muslim and Catholics? Okays and Christians Catholics. 2029 01:35:11.920 --> 01:35:14.880 So the Catholic with us, this is this together with. 2030 01:35:17.199 --> 01:35:18.520 US Catholics. What are you talking about? 2031 01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:19.720 Okay, So I'm I'm gonna tell you. 2032 01:35:20.239 --> 01:35:23.359 I'm gonna say this right now, guys, to Orthodox and 2033 01:35:23.680 --> 01:35:26.960 Anglican Catholic. Everything you're saying is convincing me more and 2034 01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:31.359 more of the Catholic argument because the position that this 2035 01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:35.000 is taking. Imagine it like this. There's a rock concert 2036 01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:39.960 an arena, stadium, and Catholics are all let's let's just say, 2037 01:35:40.119 --> 01:35:41.760 from from the from the argument fromend of this book. 2038 01:35:41.800 --> 01:35:45.800 Catholics are all looking directly at the stage, and Muslims 2039 01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:48.880 are in the back behind it, hearing a different, basic, 2040 01:35:49.279 --> 01:35:52.720 garbled version of it. They're cheering for Freddie Mercury, but 2041 01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:56.199 they're hearing some weird version of the song exactly. 2042 01:35:55.840 --> 01:35:57.119 When I hear that is. 2043 01:35:57.199 --> 01:35:59.640 What it's saying is that they're that all of these 2044 01:35:59.680 --> 01:36:03.520 different religions are looking at they're doing things the wrong 2045 01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:06.760 way towards the right God, and it's and it's because 2046 01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:08.039 there is only one God. 2047 01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:11.800 This is precisely the Catholic interpretation since Vatican Two. Now, 2048 01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:14.920 I admit, but very outset that it's written by liberals, 2049 01:36:14.920 --> 01:36:19.680 so it squints towards more conciliation, which is bad. But 2050 01:36:19.800 --> 01:36:23.000 we have to say that lumin gensium. Yeah, but after 2051 01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:26.680 I'm done lumine gensium and the other two sacred constitutions 2052 01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:27.560 as Vatican too. 2053 01:36:28.119 --> 01:36:30.079 Okay, you're using. 2054 01:36:31.439 --> 01:36:32.239 I'd be all four. 2055 01:36:32.479 --> 01:36:34.560 I'd be all four by the way, muting while other 2056 01:36:34.600 --> 01:36:37.079 guys are talking, because that that's a really effective way 2057 01:36:37.119 --> 01:36:37.560 of It's. 2058 01:36:37.479 --> 01:36:38.800 Still just yelling, though, you know what I mean. 2059 01:36:39.039 --> 01:36:41.039 But yeah, but I could sit here and be quiet. 2060 01:36:41.079 --> 01:36:42.279 I'm just saying it is the Catholic. 2061 01:36:42.760 --> 01:36:45.800 You know, Trump shouldn't have been muted either. 2062 01:36:46.079 --> 01:36:50.000 Yeah, agreed, No, as the as the Catholic that there 2063 01:36:50.039 --> 01:36:53.800 has to be a distinction between monotheism and polytheism on 2064 01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:58.039 the basis of natural religion. Everyone knows everyone out there 2065 01:36:58.039 --> 01:37:00.920 who's listening to this knows, okay, there're three Abrahamic religions, 2066 01:37:00.960 --> 01:37:02.840 which was posited by Lumingensium. 2067 01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:05.880 There's Judaism, Islam, Christianity. 2068 01:37:06.000 --> 01:37:09.640 That this is you know, community college intro to religions 2069 01:37:09.680 --> 01:37:12.800 one oh one. There are polytheisms. There are only three 2070 01:37:12.880 --> 01:37:15.359 monotheisms in the history of the world. Now there's only 2071 01:37:15.399 --> 01:37:20.119 one correct monotheism, which is posits a triune God. They 2072 01:37:20.119 --> 01:37:22.920 say that they get this wrong. This is repeated throughout 2073 01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:27.079 the Sacred Constitutions of Vatican Two that Jews and Muslims, 2074 01:37:27.119 --> 01:37:30.600 even though they're monotheists, they get it wrong. They don't 2075 01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:33.119 worship a triun God. This has said countless times in 2076 01:37:33.159 --> 01:37:36.920 the documents. But that's why we don't have the index. 2077 01:37:37.319 --> 01:37:41.680 They believe, or they falsely think that that language is 2078 01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:44.880 reserved in the Vatican two documents for the polytheisms. So 2079 01:37:45.039 --> 01:37:48.119 all they're doing there and it's written by Jesuit liberals, 2080 01:37:48.720 --> 01:37:53.640 we're squinting toward, squinting toward a bad interpretation. They say correctly, 2081 01:37:53.720 --> 01:37:57.079 they worship the One True God. Pis the Tenth says 2082 01:37:57.119 --> 01:37:59.720 this in his personal catechism. He's a tad favorite. Two 2083 01:37:59.720 --> 01:38:03.000 other medieval popes say the exact same thing, whether Jay 2084 01:38:03.079 --> 01:38:06.359 Dyer or lor Lodge likes it, this is the Catholic 2085 01:38:06.439 --> 01:38:07.560 this is the Catholic view. 2086 01:38:07.840 --> 01:38:09.720 Well, but he's branding enough. 2087 01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:13.199 I'm trying to help you brand. But with regard this 2088 01:38:13.239 --> 01:38:13.800 is the last name. 2089 01:38:13.880 --> 01:38:14.039 Look. 2090 01:38:14.119 --> 01:38:16.920 With regard to the polytheists, that's why they always say 2091 01:38:17.119 --> 01:38:19.920 they falsely claim that they falsely believe, that they falsely 2092 01:38:19.960 --> 01:38:21.199 search for they seek for. 2093 01:38:21.640 --> 01:38:23.399 Okay, So the distinction is monotheist. 2094 01:38:23.840 --> 01:38:26.520 This is correct. And everything Tim said there we would 2095 01:38:26.520 --> 01:38:29.920 agree with, except that from the Orthox perspective we reject 2096 01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:33.399 the whole idea that there are Abrahamic monotheistic faiths. So 2097 01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:36.720 even though Muslims might see themselves as that, when we 2098 01:38:36.760 --> 01:38:39.520 look at the Old Testament revelation, we believe that it 2099 01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:42.760 is the Trinity explicitly revealing itself in the Old Testament. 2100 01:38:42.800 --> 01:38:44.920 They don't know the name per se of the word Trinity, 2101 01:38:45.199 --> 01:38:48.760 but it's Yahweh, his angel, messenger and his Spirit are revealed. 2102 01:38:48.760 --> 01:38:51.079 And in John five through nine, when Jesus debates with 2103 01:38:51.119 --> 01:38:55.359 the Pharisees, who were the monotheists, he consistently says, you 2104 01:38:55.399 --> 01:38:57.760 don't get the right God. You don't get the right picture. 2105 01:38:57.880 --> 01:39:00.760 Abraham worshiped me, Jesus says in on it, he says 2106 01:39:00.800 --> 01:39:04.199 Moses wrote about him, meaning that Abraham and Moses had 2107 01:39:04.239 --> 01:39:07.680 faith in Christ. This is a key point to undo 2108 01:39:07.880 --> 01:39:11.640 the natural theology argument that the Old Testament posited a 2109 01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:15.159 generic theism of just a one monotheistic God. If Abraham 2110 01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:18.159 believe in the Trinity, then the whole Abrahamic religion thing 2111 01:39:18.199 --> 01:39:21.119 falls apart. And Jesus says that to have faith in 2112 01:39:21.199 --> 01:39:24.239 Him makes you a child of Abraham. Galatians three pulse 2113 01:39:24.359 --> 01:39:27.840 is exact same thing. So when Vatican two acknowledges that 2114 01:39:28.279 --> 01:39:31.319 they have the faith of Abraham together with us, we 2115 01:39:31.439 --> 01:39:34.479 believe that as a denial of jesus teaching in John 2116 01:39:34.560 --> 01:39:38.119 eight that you can be a child of Abraham without faith. 2117 01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:39.680 I guess that's the art. That's fair. 2118 01:39:39.760 --> 01:39:40.119 That's fair. 2119 01:39:40.159 --> 01:39:42.960 Grot real quick, just as just my response is kind 2120 01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:46.840 of like, let's say we discover like we can make 2121 01:39:46.880 --> 01:39:52.319 intercontinental ballistic missiles and very powerful ICBMs. The modern American 2122 01:39:52.600 --> 01:39:55.720 ICBM is one two hundred and fifty times stronger than 2123 01:39:55.720 --> 01:39:59.119 the bombs dropped on Hiroshima, Nagasaki. It is also possible 2124 01:39:59.159 --> 01:40:02.520 that there is also true that Indian Pakistan have nuclear 2125 01:40:02.560 --> 01:40:05.680 weapons that are substantially weaker because they have not yet 2126 01:40:05.760 --> 01:40:08.520 discovered the means and the capability by which to build 2127 01:40:08.720 --> 01:40:09.520 a powerful bomb. 2128 01:40:10.199 --> 01:40:10.920 So I think it. 2129 01:40:10.840 --> 01:40:15.720 Could be said that you may have discovered hidden truths 2130 01:40:15.760 --> 01:40:18.479 and the true path towards God and religion, and Muslims 2131 01:40:18.479 --> 01:40:21.079 are effectively using a one killtun bomb when you got 2132 01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:21.840 a megadun bomb. 2133 01:40:22.520 --> 01:40:24.439 That's why I think the argument would be that Muslims 2134 01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:25.439 are openly rejecting. 2135 01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:28.520 So the point is that, like, there are fundamentals that 2136 01:40:28.560 --> 01:40:32.520 are absolutely essential to have access to God or to Christianity. 2137 01:40:32.560 --> 01:40:35.079 So to deny, for example, the trendy or the incarnation 2138 01:40:35.760 --> 01:40:38.319 puts us one outside of the bounds of Christianity at all. 2139 01:40:38.439 --> 01:40:42.439 But I agree that, like, look at it this way. 2140 01:40:43.239 --> 01:40:45.119 There's a bouncer at a club and he says, if 2141 01:40:45.119 --> 01:40:46.199 you follow the rules, you can. 2142 01:40:46.079 --> 01:40:46.800 Come into the club. 2143 01:40:47.119 --> 01:40:48.880 And half the people follow the rules and get let in. 2144 01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:50.880 The other half says that guy's telling us to go 2145 01:40:50.920 --> 01:40:53.239 bash the windows out, and they get thrown out. They 2146 01:40:53.279 --> 01:40:55.279 thought that's what the guy wanted. It's the same guy, 2147 01:40:55.319 --> 01:40:56.039 but they're doing it wrong. 2148 01:40:56.079 --> 01:40:59.720 Well, getting we throw we do throw people out right. 2149 01:41:00.279 --> 01:41:04.119 My point is when when Vatican two says they worship God, 2150 01:41:04.880 --> 01:41:05.960 it's like the bouncer. 2151 01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:07.239 Being like, yo, I never told those people to throw 2152 01:41:07.279 --> 01:41:08.560 bricks at the building. What are they doing? 2153 01:41:08.640 --> 01:41:08.760 Well? 2154 01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:11.319 The problem is not just worship, but Vatican two uses 2155 01:41:11.319 --> 01:41:13.720 the term of adoration, which in Klac theology is more 2156 01:41:13.760 --> 01:41:16.880 specific than just a generic idea of natural theology. Adoration 2157 01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:20.119 is something that's a specific term for like adoring the 2158 01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:23.239 Eucharist in Calaic theology. And I would also point out 2159 01:41:23.239 --> 01:41:25.359 that when my opening statement I mentioned the fact that 2160 01:41:25.399 --> 01:41:27.800 the Council of v n which is a medieval romancalact theology, 2161 01:41:27.840 --> 01:41:29.479 which was involved in the crusades. 2162 01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:32.840 That attitude today. 2163 01:41:32.520 --> 01:41:35.039 That you see here is completely different than the attitude 2164 01:41:35.079 --> 01:41:37.399 then in the Middle Ages, where it was the abominable 2165 01:41:37.399 --> 01:41:40.920 sect of Muhammet. In the council they call crusades against 2166 01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:42.319 the Muslims to protect the Holy Land. 2167 01:41:42.399 --> 01:41:45.199 Sure attitudes change, dogma, no, no, how can. 2168 01:41:45.079 --> 01:41:46.560 You be the abominable sect of Muhammad? 2169 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:49.760 But now, but now together with us, they adore the 2170 01:41:49.760 --> 01:41:50.279 once through God. 2171 01:41:50.279 --> 01:41:51.119 That's the contradiction to. 2172 01:41:51.159 --> 01:41:53.159 M They could be the abominable sect of Muhammad and 2173 01:41:53.239 --> 01:41:53.960 still worship point. 2174 01:41:54.039 --> 01:41:59.279 Oh, they don't even though my references with us Tim. 2175 01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:01.920 Jake, can I are these both these are both dogmatic 2176 01:42:01.960 --> 01:42:04.560 councils from Vatican two. Okay, then dogma contradicts. 2177 01:42:04.640 --> 01:42:06.039 Okay, what's the argument. 2178 01:42:05.760 --> 01:42:09.720 Dog Okay, guys, guys, guys, that's I got simply and straightforward. 2179 01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:12.520 Least. It was also untrue when you said we don't 2180 01:42:12.520 --> 01:42:14.439 have ordination, but that apparently doesn't matter today. 2181 01:42:14.479 --> 01:42:15.880 Well, well, let's aboridation. 2182 01:42:16.039 --> 01:42:17.600 Let's go there, let's go there. 2183 01:42:17.640 --> 01:42:19.399 It goes back to august How many how many? 2184 01:42:19.399 --> 01:42:22.199 How many? How many years was the how many years 2185 01:42:22.239 --> 01:42:22.880 was the g Hud? 2186 01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:24.439 Augustin's goes back to Peter? 2187 01:42:25.680 --> 01:42:26.319 Is that? How that? 2188 01:42:26.520 --> 01:42:28.680 So the gihot goes from a No, we're we're having 2189 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:30.439 a separate debate again. Oh, because I asked a question 2190 01:42:30.439 --> 01:42:31.800 about how many years was the gi Hud? 2191 01:42:31.840 --> 01:42:35.159 You mean from the rise of Islam the literal. 2192 01:42:34.960 --> 01:42:37.279 Like Gi had conquests across North Africa, the Middle. 2193 01:42:37.039 --> 01:42:42.439 East, I argue, I mean moving westward, it was from 2194 01:42:42.800 --> 01:42:44.479 it was basically one hundred years, six thirty two to 2195 01:42:44.479 --> 01:42:47.199 seven thirty two. On the eastern side, it's not quite 2196 01:42:47.239 --> 01:42:50.720 as linear because there's the immediate Arab move into the north, 2197 01:42:50.760 --> 01:42:52.840 and then the Turks convert and they come back down south. 2198 01:42:53.159 --> 01:42:56.880 Six seven fifty and eighteen years was when. 2199 01:42:56.800 --> 01:42:58.760 Battle of tour Is seven thirty two. That's kind of 2200 01:42:58.800 --> 01:42:59.439 the reversal. 2201 01:42:59.800 --> 01:43:03.880 And then there were additional Jihads the eleventh and thirteenth century, 2202 01:43:04.039 --> 01:43:07.399 two hundred years and so I'm looking at the birth 2203 01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:10.760 rate for Muslims, which is three point one, as well 2204 01:43:10.800 --> 01:43:15.359 as the hundreds of years of militaristic conquest under the 2205 01:43:15.399 --> 01:43:18.760 banner of Islam, And like, how many battles of the 2206 01:43:18.760 --> 01:43:21.880 Crusades were there? There were a lot, like nowhere near 2207 01:43:21.880 --> 01:43:23.479 as many as the Islamic she Hod. 2208 01:43:24.600 --> 01:43:26.520 I don't think that's true. I think there were a 2209 01:43:26.520 --> 01:43:29.159 lot more battle It really depends on Howmad fought in 2210 01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:33.680 seventy eight battles seventy eight alone, there weren't that many 2211 01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:36.399 in the Crusades as compared to the full total of 2212 01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:38.439 Islamic she had. There were not as many battles during 2213 01:43:38.439 --> 01:43:39.000 the Crusades. 2214 01:43:40.479 --> 01:43:44.680 Let's see nine battles in the Crusades over two hundred years. 2215 01:43:45.439 --> 01:43:53.359 I would argue against that. Maybe nine major battles. Yeah, 2216 01:43:53.840 --> 01:43:56.199 and how really defining battles, I don't know. 2217 01:43:56.439 --> 01:44:01.000 There were eighty to one hundred military expeditions in the 2218 01:44:01.039 --> 01:44:06.920 first Islam a jihad. Yeah, so in terms of birth 2219 01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:12.199 rate and expansion, I mean Islam's doing way better. 2220 01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:13.760 I'm not saying I'm the missage Spirit. 2221 01:44:13.640 --> 01:44:16.560 So I will say Islam. The ability of Islam to 2222 01:44:17.159 --> 01:44:21.279 move after seven thirty two was largely due to the 2223 01:44:21.319 --> 01:44:23.680 Turks coming in at a time that could not have 2224 01:44:23.760 --> 01:44:27.199 been less ideal for Christians. These two were well, thankfully, 2225 01:44:27.199 --> 01:44:30.079 we were the same at the sign were in conflict. 2226 01:44:30.199 --> 01:44:33.079 There was a schism that had happened about twenty years earlier. 2227 01:44:33.760 --> 01:44:35.760 Then you get the Battle of Nansukurt in ten seventy one, 2228 01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:40.119 and the Byzantine Empire collapses in on itself because everybody 2229 01:44:40.159 --> 01:44:43.439 wants to be emperor, and ironically, the Church wasn't strong 2230 01:44:43.560 --> 01:44:47.479 enough to enforce one single emperor in the West. The 2231 01:44:47.560 --> 01:44:50.000 Church wasn't strong enough to convince people, hey, we need 2232 01:44:50.039 --> 01:44:52.119 to go drive the Turks out, and had to use 2233 01:44:52.279 --> 01:44:54.479 Jerusalem as a little bit of a carrot on a stick. 2234 01:44:55.479 --> 01:44:57.880 So the Muslims came in at a time when Christians 2235 01:44:57.880 --> 01:45:00.880 were more divided than they had ever been, and we 2236 01:45:00.880 --> 01:45:04.439 were unable to resist the tide until ten ninety five 2237 01:45:04.439 --> 01:45:06.319 when we were able to assemble an army large enough 2238 01:45:06.359 --> 01:45:08.479 to go and infight it. But at that point the 2239 01:45:08.479 --> 01:45:12.560 Franks didn't want to stay over there. The Saracens became 2240 01:45:12.600 --> 01:45:16.920 too numerous, too powerful. It was a long period of 2241 01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:19.920 strife that was largely caused by Christianity's inability to come together. 2242 01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:24.119 There was an argument a few years ago, maybe like 2243 01:45:24.159 --> 01:45:27.119 seven years ago, where a lot of people, including myself, 2244 01:45:27.239 --> 01:45:29.720 made the argument that the US would become a Muslim nation. No, 2245 01:45:30.079 --> 01:45:33.840 because Muslims have a substantially higher fertility rate than basically 2246 01:45:33.840 --> 01:45:38.960 every other group, including Christians, and that combined with mass migration, 2247 01:45:39.119 --> 01:45:42.079 you see the emergency of places like Dearborn, Michigan. However, 2248 01:45:42.119 --> 01:45:45.920 with the recent trend towards Christianity among the gen Z, 2249 01:45:46.520 --> 01:45:50.600 and it's not just that Conservatives and Christians had more kids, 2250 01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:54.079 we're actually seeing an ideological shift. And I think a 2251 01:45:54.159 --> 01:45:56.479 large portion of why we're seeing young gen Z be 2252 01:45:56.600 --> 01:45:58.920 more Christian is just because of their parents. But I 2253 01:45:58.920 --> 01:46:02.000 think about half we are actually seeing an ideological conversion. 2254 01:46:02.079 --> 01:46:05.079 One of which is there was this really interesting shift 2255 01:46:05.279 --> 01:46:08.359 from like two thousand, i'm sorry, twenty twenty to like 2256 01:46:08.399 --> 01:46:10.800 twenty three or whatever where gen Z support for same 2257 01:46:10.840 --> 01:46:14.479 sis marriage collapsed, like literally the same people pulled at 2258 01:46:14.479 --> 01:46:16.680 like twenty years old then at twenty four had an 2259 01:46:16.720 --> 01:46:21.640 inverse opinion on gay marriage. So that if combined with 2260 01:46:22.560 --> 01:46:26.159 a reversal of the fertility rate decline, which may happen, 2261 01:46:26.359 --> 01:46:27.560 we're as seeing a lot of people start to have 2262 01:46:27.640 --> 01:46:29.920 kids again, then I think the US is on track 2263 01:46:29.920 --> 01:46:32.359 to become a conservative Christian nation probably. 2264 01:46:32.399 --> 01:46:34.439 In fact, one of the global elite books that I 2265 01:46:34.640 --> 01:46:37.159 lectured through was Jacques at the Leed's book Brievious Read 2266 01:46:37.199 --> 01:46:39.680 the Future in two thousand and six. He warned that 2267 01:46:39.720 --> 01:46:42.159 for the technocratic elite, one of the things they had 2268 01:46:42.159 --> 01:46:44.760 to be concerned with was the possibility of a rising 2269 01:46:45.319 --> 01:46:48.000 traditional Christian ethos in the West and in the US. 2270 01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:51.800 So they actually wargamed that out. And a few years 2271 01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:55.279 ago the Saudis were noted for I think putting sixty 2272 01:46:55.359 --> 01:46:59.760 something billion into funding mosques in the US and Islamic education, 2273 01:46:59.840 --> 01:47:00.520 So I. 2274 01:47:00.520 --> 01:47:01.840 Think they were really pushing for that. 2275 01:47:01.880 --> 01:47:04.159 But Islam has been has had a rough go on 2276 01:47:04.199 --> 01:47:06.239 the internet, especially the last couple of years. They're losing 2277 01:47:06.279 --> 01:47:08.640 bad and then a lot of younger people are turning 2278 01:47:08.640 --> 01:47:09.479 towards Christianity. 2279 01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:11.000 So I have a question for you guys, just for 2280 01:47:11.079 --> 01:47:14.119 all Christians I believe, is it Is it one of 2281 01:47:14.119 --> 01:47:16.479 the core tenants to go and spread the religion. 2282 01:47:18.119 --> 01:47:20.279 Do you guys view yourselves as as doing that? 2283 01:47:21.319 --> 01:47:24.640 I would say yes in this current present moment right now, 2284 01:47:24.840 --> 01:47:25.960 I think in just general. 2285 01:47:25.720 --> 01:47:27.800 I think, yeah, I'll talk about that general on large 2286 01:47:27.800 --> 01:47:29.359 platforms to large groups of people. 2287 01:47:29.479 --> 01:47:30.199 Yeah, certainly. 2288 01:47:30.239 --> 01:47:34.279 And evangelization sounds different than the in turn of scene 2289 01:47:35.079 --> 01:47:37.880 squabbling between ethics in Orthodox certainly. 2290 01:47:37.960 --> 01:47:38.560 Yeah, I think. 2291 01:47:38.680 --> 01:47:40.760 I think, I'm sure all of us try to do 2292 01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:44.319 that in a different form for in platforms. 2293 01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:45.520 I certainly do. 2294 01:47:45.560 --> 01:47:47.119 Also, Yeah, I mean, like I said, like Islam is 2295 01:47:47.159 --> 01:47:49.239 having a hard time because they had a really strong 2296 01:47:49.319 --> 01:47:51.079 push in the twenty tens online and a lot of 2297 01:47:51.079 --> 01:47:54.199 people are getting into into Islam. But now a lot 2298 01:47:54.239 --> 01:47:57.640 of Christians are doing pretty intense hardcore apologetics. Like we 2299 01:47:57.720 --> 01:48:02.199 had that debate with Daniel Kikachu and e Jaws together 2300 01:48:02.199 --> 01:48:04.079 at Me and Sam Chamoun on Fresh and Fit. I 2301 01:48:04.119 --> 01:48:06.079 got millions of views and it was like ninety percent 2302 01:48:06.279 --> 01:48:07.520 just dominated. 2303 01:48:07.359 --> 01:48:11.520 I mean Russell Brand. Yeah, you know, so I in 2304 01:48:11.560 --> 01:48:12.600 the skateboard. 2305 01:48:12.119 --> 01:48:18.319 Community, it's degenerate garbage. Mostly these pro skateboarders have always 2306 01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:20.560 been scuzzy, drug abusing, Now that there's a bunch of 2307 01:48:20.560 --> 01:48:23.079 them that are getting baptized. Yeah, I'm not going to 2308 01:48:23.199 --> 01:48:25.920 single any anybody out, but I was surprised. 2309 01:48:25.479 --> 01:48:28.640 To find didn't skating get like the corporations try to 2310 01:48:28.640 --> 01:48:30.319 take it over, like make it woke, and then people 2311 01:48:30.319 --> 01:48:31.239 are reacting to that now. 2312 01:48:31.319 --> 01:48:33.960 Well, so with skateboarding, what happened was the industry completely 2313 01:48:33.960 --> 01:48:37.479 collapsed because there's no young people anymore, and the stewards 2314 01:48:37.520 --> 01:48:40.960 of the industry failed to cultivate a new generation of skateboarders. 2315 01:48:41.399 --> 01:48:43.800 So what happens then is, as of today, more than 2316 01:48:43.840 --> 01:48:46.800 half of all professional like all all skateboards active skateboarder, 2317 01:48:46.800 --> 01:48:50.479 I don't say professional, are over thirty. What happens when 2318 01:48:50.560 --> 01:48:53.720 the water goes down, it exposes the scum in the reef. 2319 01:48:54.159 --> 01:48:56.119 And so now some of the most prominent voices in 2320 01:48:56.119 --> 01:48:58.680 the industry are degenerate, yeah, cringey. 2321 01:48:58.920 --> 01:48:59.600 Rage bait. 2322 01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:04.199 And so what happens is these companies try to figure 2323 01:49:04.239 --> 01:49:07.239 out how to sell to whoever they can, and you 2324 01:49:07.399 --> 01:49:10.600 end up with advertisements or there may be an inverse 2325 01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:15.199 correlation here that when the company started promoting you know, 2326 01:49:15.279 --> 01:49:17.439 like men penny be women doing weird fetish poses, and 2327 01:49:17.479 --> 01:49:19.800 they are it's not a joke. Young guys say, I 2328 01:49:19.840 --> 01:49:22.079 don't have anything to do with this because scooting doesn't 2329 01:49:22.079 --> 01:49:25.800 do that. Scooting doesn't and that's growing massively in popularity. 2330 01:49:26.239 --> 01:49:28.479 All the skills are now in terms of action sports 2331 01:49:28.520 --> 01:49:30.840 are going in that direction in BMX, and this is 2332 01:49:30.880 --> 01:49:33.159 what happens when you know what I think it is 2333 01:49:33.159 --> 01:49:37.880 to relate this to the conversation, abject degeneracy freaks the 2334 01:49:37.920 --> 01:49:40.560 average person out, no matter what, no matter who they are, 2335 01:49:40.600 --> 01:49:43.680 where they're from. It is a shock to the system. 2336 01:49:44.039 --> 01:49:46.920 So skateboarding started promoting there's like there's one individual whos 2337 01:49:46.920 --> 01:49:50.800 a morbidly obese man who's trans and does fetish like 2338 01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:53.439 weird sexualized fetish poses. But it's like it's like a 2339 01:49:53.479 --> 01:49:56.920 big fat guy, and a lot of a lot of 2340 01:49:56.960 --> 01:49:57.800 young men are. 2341 01:49:57.640 --> 01:49:59.359 Like I I don't want to have anything to do with that. 2342 01:50:01.039 --> 01:50:02.920 I think now we're seeing a lot of young men 2343 01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:04.880 shift towards Christianity. 2344 01:50:04.880 --> 01:50:05.720 That's in the polls. 2345 01:50:06.680 --> 01:50:08.840 That may be a good explanation as to why skateboarding 2346 01:50:08.880 --> 01:50:12.720 is struggling to market itself to your generation, because all 2347 01:50:12.760 --> 01:50:16.439 the big magazines are basically being like, you know, here's 2348 01:50:16.479 --> 01:50:17.880 a trends in the queer stuff. 2349 01:50:17.560 --> 01:50:21.560 And it's not internal to one culture or another subculture. 2350 01:50:21.600 --> 01:50:25.680 This is what's at large in the general popular culture 2351 01:50:25.840 --> 01:50:29.439 is a great reawakening essentially secular humanism. 2352 01:50:29.520 --> 01:50:31.000 I'm not the first one to say it. 2353 01:50:30.760 --> 01:50:36.000 It's reasonably obvious of ten years into it. Secularly humanism 2354 01:50:36.039 --> 01:50:39.800 has consumed itself and people are looking for what's perennial 2355 01:50:39.880 --> 01:50:43.520 and what's true. And it turns out that a lot 2356 01:50:43.520 --> 01:50:47.680 of young kids are are finding Jesus based and so 2357 01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:52.239 when they're returning to Christianity, they're looking for what they 2358 01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:54.600 take to be a based version of it, which is 2359 01:50:54.600 --> 01:50:58.079 why they're leaving Protestantism in droves and going to. 2360 01:50:59.399 --> 01:51:02.039 Greater struct Sure, more and more structure is all I'm saying. 2361 01:51:02.199 --> 01:51:05.119 So they're going to Orthodox or twenty twenty four was 2362 01:51:05.199 --> 01:51:09.279 Roman Catholicism's I think greatest year of re embrace of 2363 01:51:09.319 --> 01:51:11.760 the church? Pod how many people leave in the Catholicism 2364 01:51:11.760 --> 01:51:14.880 for every person who joins it, You tell me, I 2365 01:51:14.880 --> 01:51:16.359 believe it's something I'm not going to tell you. 2366 01:51:16.399 --> 01:51:20.279 There's something like six to eight. Yeah, Well, one. 2367 01:51:20.119 --> 01:51:23.920 Last year was the best year in the New evangelization, 2368 01:51:24.079 --> 01:51:27.600 which is what what Jumpaul the second set out to 2369 01:51:27.600 --> 01:51:31.720 do using media using the self Malaysia. 2370 01:51:32.399 --> 01:51:36.560 Well, I googled it and it I'm sorry, I checked 2371 01:51:36.560 --> 01:51:39.720 GPT did it and it says that Protestants are converting 2372 01:51:39.760 --> 01:51:41.239 to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. 2373 01:51:41.479 --> 01:51:41.840 We are. 2374 01:51:43.319 --> 01:51:45.359 It should be clear that you dispute a lot. So 2375 01:51:45.560 --> 01:51:47.359 I did not dispute that. I think you did. 2376 01:51:47.439 --> 01:51:49.600 I did not see one hundred and fifty five per 2377 01:51:49.640 --> 01:51:53.720 parish in from twenty two to twenty three, I said, leaving, 2378 01:51:54.319 --> 01:51:55.359 that's that's not a good metric. 2379 01:51:55.560 --> 01:51:56.800 There's no real good metric. 2380 01:51:56.960 --> 01:51:59.359 They say seventy eight percent surge and Orthodox conversions, but 2381 01:51:59.399 --> 01:52:04.000 again we don't know how the actual hard numbers. Orthodoxy 2382 01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:07.439 is seeing one hundred and fifty five converts converts per church, 2383 01:52:07.560 --> 01:52:09.720 of which sixty five are from Protestant backgrounds. 2384 01:52:09.960 --> 01:52:12.880 Yeah, I think Protestantism has a major issue right now 2385 01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:15.960 with first of all, with how divided we are. I 2386 01:52:15.960 --> 01:52:18.439 don't think that's a good thing. I think that the 2387 01:52:18.439 --> 01:52:22.039 Episcopal Church, many of the Presbyterian churches have totally lost 2388 01:52:22.079 --> 01:52:24.239 their way. Oh yeah, and that I mean, that's why 2389 01:52:24.279 --> 01:52:28.319 Thenking Catholic Church exists. I think Protestants need to really 2390 01:52:28.399 --> 01:52:30.119 look in the mirror and ask ourselves what the hell 2391 01:52:30.159 --> 01:52:30.520 we're doing. 2392 01:52:30.640 --> 01:52:31.319 Let me let me say this. 2393 01:52:31.359 --> 01:52:34.680 When I, when I was looking up different denominations, chet 2394 01:52:34.720 --> 01:52:36.560 Gptier volunteered unto. 2395 01:52:36.439 --> 01:52:39.520 Me that the Episcopal Church was was shrinking. 2396 01:52:39.800 --> 01:52:40.279 It's bad. 2397 01:52:40.520 --> 01:52:42.640 Like when I when I said, like, list lists of 2398 01:52:42.640 --> 01:52:45.560 the churches by a fertility rate, it was like, you know, 2399 01:52:45.600 --> 01:52:46.640 as a possable is shrinking. 2400 01:52:46.840 --> 01:52:50.319 All the wolde churches are basically adopting sterility, so they 2401 01:52:50.319 --> 01:52:52.840 sterilize themselves with their policies, and then they don't have 2402 01:52:52.880 --> 01:52:54.479 future generations and they die out. 2403 01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:58.199 Yeah, the conservative the Conservative Protestant churches aren't as good 2404 01:52:58.199 --> 01:53:01.039 at marketing. We are not nearly as good at telling 2405 01:53:01.039 --> 01:53:04.239 people we exist. The Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches 2406 01:53:04.239 --> 01:53:05.960 are both very visible. I think that's why you see 2407 01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:08.479 so many Protestants converting right now. I think if more 2408 01:53:08.479 --> 01:53:12.319 Protestants were aware of churches like the Anglican Catholics, there 2409 01:53:12.359 --> 01:53:14.960 would be higher numbers of people converting to the Conservative 2410 01:53:14.960 --> 01:53:18.279 Protestant churches as well. But we suffer from that problem 2411 01:53:18.399 --> 01:53:21.880 of being at schism with ourselves. In so many cases, there. 2412 01:53:22.199 --> 01:53:24.560 Are a lot of churches that fly the Pride flags, 2413 01:53:24.600 --> 01:53:25.600 even Catholic churches. 2414 01:53:25.680 --> 01:53:28.319 Yeah, they're popping up. They tend to be in liberal areas. 2415 01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:32.600 And I view that largely as the church is looking 2416 01:53:32.640 --> 01:53:35.680 at the political views of the community around them, and 2417 01:53:35.680 --> 01:53:38.720 they're probably saying to themselves, in one year, this church 2418 01:53:38.720 --> 01:53:41.960 will be a coffee shop unless we get more parishioners. 2419 01:53:42.199 --> 01:53:44.319 What do we have to do? Market whatever they want 2420 01:53:44.359 --> 01:53:44.560 to get? 2421 01:53:44.720 --> 01:53:46.039 Woe churches die, It doesn't work. 2422 01:53:46.239 --> 01:53:48.840 Yeah, it doesn't. But you know I'll say this too. 2423 01:53:48.880 --> 01:53:50.079 He die and the faith dies with them. 2424 01:53:50.199 --> 01:53:51.439 And many people have. 2425 01:53:51.359 --> 01:53:53.399 Said get what, go broke, But I do believe while 2426 01:53:53.399 --> 01:53:56.520 that's largely true, there's an inverse of go broke, get woke, 2427 01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:59.359 in that a lot of companies try to adopt. They 2428 01:53:59.359 --> 01:54:02.199 try to adopt wokeness is a marketing tactic to try 2429 01:54:02.239 --> 01:54:04.399 and get but they don't Understan hippies don't have money. 2430 01:54:04.439 --> 01:54:06.880 Now it's well, it's a boomer marketing appeal that that 2431 01:54:07.239 --> 01:54:09.760 was really I'll speak to the Catholic position. It was 2432 01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:13.479 really popular during an a round Vatican two, and they 2433 01:54:13.520 --> 01:54:18.359 thought that kids wanted the monkeys music and and long 2434 01:54:18.399 --> 01:54:19.920 hair and masks and tambourines and. 2435 01:54:19.920 --> 01:54:21.560 Ship and they simply didn't. 2436 01:54:21.960 --> 01:54:25.159 What they wanted was what's perennial and true and that 2437 01:54:25.159 --> 01:54:26.560 that's that's really what's Let. 2438 01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:30.760 Me let me say this. There's this uh oft quoted study. 2439 01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:33.960 You have to look it up where they they told people, 2440 01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:36.119 come in, it's a it's a study. You're gonna you're 2441 01:54:36.119 --> 01:54:38.720 gonna ask answer some questions, and then afterwards you get 2442 01:54:38.720 --> 01:54:41.479 a free T shirt. People came in the first group 2443 01:54:41.640 --> 01:54:43.159 answer the questions and as they were leaving they were 2444 01:54:43.159 --> 01:54:45.079 given a free T shirt. They were then on the 2445 01:54:45.079 --> 01:54:47.560 way out asked how do they feel about their experience. 2446 01:54:48.159 --> 01:54:50.920 The next group came in answer the questions, were then 2447 01:54:50.960 --> 01:54:53.479 given a choice between one of three T shirts blue, green, 2448 01:54:53.600 --> 01:54:53.960 or red. 2449 01:54:54.359 --> 01:54:56.159 They then made a choice. They were then on the 2450 01:54:56.199 --> 01:54:57.319 way out asked how they felt. 2451 01:54:57.560 --> 01:55:00.359 The people who were given the choice felt worse soft, 2452 01:55:00.840 --> 01:55:03.680 They felt regret they picked the wrong color. The people 2453 01:55:03.680 --> 01:55:05.399 who aren't given a choice went wow, free T shirt, 2454 01:55:05.920 --> 01:55:08.079 but when they had to choose between the colors, it 2455 01:55:08.159 --> 01:55:11.479 actually made them feel worse. And this is often cited 2456 01:55:11.560 --> 01:55:16.199 as a in many insins not all choice actually stresses 2457 01:55:16.199 --> 01:55:17.960 people out and makes them feel anxiety. 2458 01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:18.640 They don't like it. 2459 01:55:19.239 --> 01:55:22.199 And so a lot of people, not everybody, but a 2460 01:55:22.199 --> 01:55:23.600 lot of people really just want to be told what 2461 01:55:23.680 --> 01:55:27.560 to do. And I've said this before, because there's this 2462 01:55:27.960 --> 01:55:30.239 mentality United States that being a follower is a bad thing. 2463 01:55:30.560 --> 01:55:32.800 You want to be a leader, and I reject that. 2464 01:55:33.039 --> 01:55:36.680 There's a requirement before both leaders and followers. And they 2465 01:55:36.720 --> 01:55:39.439 try to insult you in modern media if you are 2466 01:55:39.520 --> 01:55:41.279 just a follower of someone, because you have to be 2467 01:55:41.319 --> 01:55:44.119 the leader. And I say, when the king is standing 2468 01:55:44.159 --> 01:55:46.039 before all of his men in the fields, ready to 2469 01:55:46.119 --> 01:55:48.239 die for the world that they believe in and the 2470 01:55:48.239 --> 01:55:51.079 things they love, those followers of the king are no 2471 01:55:51.199 --> 01:55:53.880 less dignified simply because they're not the king. In fact, 2472 01:55:53.880 --> 01:55:56.920 without them, there is no king. So being a follower 2473 01:55:56.960 --> 01:56:00.279 isn't a bad thing. And they you know, I think 2474 01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:01.840 modern society tries to tell you. 2475 01:56:01.760 --> 01:56:04.439 Not to not to do that. Absolutely be rogue. 2476 01:56:04.920 --> 01:56:08.119 No, it's perfectly fine. If you want to say, listen, 2477 01:56:08.640 --> 01:56:12.239 I spend my days taking care of my family. You 2478 01:56:12.279 --> 01:56:14.439 take care of the politics I believe in. You do 2479 01:56:14.479 --> 01:56:17.079 the right thing. Don't screw me over. There's nothing wrong 2480 01:56:17.159 --> 01:56:17.439 with it. 2481 01:56:18.439 --> 01:56:23.640 Modernity is enlightenment, right, a Enlightenment effect. So the Enlightenment 2482 01:56:23.680 --> 01:56:28.600 was all about individual atimistic liberties which premised were premised 2483 01:56:28.640 --> 01:56:31.479 on the idea that there's no authority, there's no hierarchy. 2484 01:56:31.520 --> 01:56:34.720 Hence why they were opposed to church and state monarchy. 2485 01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:36.119 Monarchy in church yea. 2486 01:56:36.279 --> 01:56:37.319 And I will say this too. 2487 01:56:37.640 --> 01:56:38.680 One of the debates we have to have in the 2488 01:56:38.720 --> 01:56:43.840 political arena around religion is that there's this romanticized, fake 2489 01:56:44.039 --> 01:56:47.840 liberal view that the Founding Fathers believed in this hyperliberal 2490 01:56:47.880 --> 01:56:49.560 society where anyone could say whatever they wanted. 2491 01:56:49.760 --> 01:56:53.039 They had blasphemy laws back then. Even when the Founding 2492 01:56:53.039 --> 01:56:55.119 father says the right to speech shall not be infringed. 2493 01:56:55.520 --> 01:56:57.840 Of course, no one in this room thinks you can 2494 01:56:57.880 --> 01:56:59.479 go out there and say, you know, and take the 2495 01:56:59.479 --> 01:56:59.960 Lord's name in. 2496 01:57:00.319 --> 01:57:01.159 That would be a crime. 2497 01:57:01.680 --> 01:57:04.399 They meant you could go and have political conversations in 2498 01:57:04.439 --> 01:57:04.800 a pub. 2499 01:57:05.560 --> 01:57:07.000 And so when you look at. 2500 01:57:06.960 --> 01:57:11.399 The context around the Constitution seventeen eighty nine and all that, 2501 01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:15.000 they weren't literally saying anyone can march the street to 2502 01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:17.359 the tombs of thousands of people in block roads. They 2503 01:57:17.359 --> 01:57:20.319 were saying, if you have a meeting in your city 2504 01:57:20.520 --> 01:57:23.399 peacefully to have conversations. The government can't shut you down 2505 01:57:23.399 --> 01:57:25.760 because the crown wanted to shut them down. But these 2506 01:57:25.760 --> 01:57:27.720 people think the Founding Fathers were a bunch of like 2507 01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:31.000 liberal atheis no. 2508 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:32.960 Blaspheming. 2509 01:57:33.000 --> 01:57:33.359 Eight of the. 2510 01:57:33.279 --> 01:57:38.560 Thirteen states had establishments of Christian religions, and the First 2511 01:57:38.600 --> 01:57:41.560 Amendment to the US Constitution was written assuming that all 2512 01:57:41.600 --> 01:57:45.920 thirteen would. And what the establishment clause means literally was 2513 01:57:46.000 --> 01:57:49.680 that Congress and Congress alone shall not make a law 2514 01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:53.720 respecting a disestablishment of religion. Congress wasn't allowed to. 2515 01:57:53.680 --> 01:57:59.560 Disestablish the state legislature established sex of Christianity. That's literally 2516 01:57:59.600 --> 01:58:03.720 what it means ins And it was a Masonic US 2517 01:58:03.760 --> 01:58:06.039 Supreme Court in nineteen forty seven in the case called 2518 01:58:06.039 --> 01:58:10.119 Everson versus Board of Bed that literally reversed the meaning 2519 01:58:10.359 --> 01:58:12.880 and incorporated the First Amendment. 2520 01:58:12.920 --> 01:58:15.560 Today you know of which like Enlightenment, free Masonic values. 2521 01:58:15.640 --> 01:58:17.800 How do you reconcile Freemasonry with Christianity? 2522 01:58:18.680 --> 01:58:20.920 What about freemasonry is in conflict with Christianity? 2523 01:58:21.000 --> 01:58:22.720 How about Albert Pike's teachings? 2524 01:58:22.920 --> 01:58:25.840 Albert Pike is not recognized as influential by most Masons. 2525 01:58:27.039 --> 01:58:30.600 His teachings are non essential Freemason. 2526 01:58:30.640 --> 01:58:31.439 Yeah, worls and dogmas. 2527 01:58:31.479 --> 01:58:33.760 I'll admit I've had my questions because I have run 2528 01:58:33.760 --> 01:58:34.920 into things. 2529 01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:36.680 Dogmas not used in the Scottish right. 2530 01:58:36.840 --> 01:58:38.439 No, it is used in the southern jurisdiction of the 2531 01:58:38.479 --> 01:58:39.319 Scottish Right in the Southern. 2532 01:58:39.399 --> 01:58:42.000 So so he has a giant statue in DC, but 2533 01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:42.800 he's not influential. 2534 01:58:42.960 --> 01:58:45.439 He was influential for a number of other reasons. Secularly, 2535 01:58:46.239 --> 01:58:49.479 what about Mamneroal He was a accomplished ethnographer. 2536 01:58:50.039 --> 01:58:52.640 Okay, what about Manley P. Hall? It's he also doesn't count. 2537 01:58:52.680 --> 01:58:55.640 Manley P. Hall admitted that he wrote everything that you 2538 01:58:55.680 --> 01:58:57.640 have a problem with before he became a freemason. 2539 01:58:58.399 --> 01:58:59.560 What masons do count? 2540 01:59:00.279 --> 01:59:02.159 Well, it depends a lot of talking about with freemasonry. 2541 01:59:02.159 --> 01:59:04.319 I mean the philo free masonry is the first three degrees, 2542 01:59:04.600 --> 01:59:05.159 that's it, or. 2543 01:59:05.119 --> 01:59:07.800 The philosophy what is not true? There's there's thirty, second, 2544 01:59:07.840 --> 01:59:08.920 thirty third degree. 2545 01:59:08.760 --> 01:59:10.760 There are in the Scottish Right, which is a pellet 2546 01:59:10.760 --> 01:59:12.479 to freemasonry. It's like getting in there at badge. 2547 01:59:12.520 --> 01:59:14.399 Yeah, but I don't care about what your terms are 2548 01:59:14.439 --> 01:59:17.199 for these different sexs when these aren't they have a 2549 01:59:17.319 --> 01:59:19.399 naturalistic bent and ethos. 2550 01:59:19.439 --> 01:59:20.960 For example, Pike says. 2551 01:59:20.720 --> 01:59:22.239 That Pike is irrelevant to me. 2552 01:59:22.399 --> 01:59:22.680 He's not. 2553 01:59:22.800 --> 01:59:24.720 He's do you have but not to the history freemaks. No, 2554 01:59:24.800 --> 01:59:27.840 Pike is irrelevant to everything outside of Freemason. Is irrelevant 2555 01:59:27.880 --> 01:59:31.359 to the history of Freemasonry, general Freemason. Here, who's the 2556 01:59:31.359 --> 01:59:32.399 one who knows what he's talking about? 2557 01:59:32.399 --> 01:59:33.520 It's not an appeal to authority. 2558 01:59:33.560 --> 01:59:34.000 No, it's not. 2559 01:59:34.079 --> 01:59:37.760 Yes, it is, I'm trying to You're not yourself. Albert 2560 01:59:37.760 --> 01:59:42.680 Pike is a source. Add No, Albert Pike is a 2561 01:59:42.800 --> 01:59:46.399 source for the Southern the Southern jurisdiction. 2562 01:59:46.720 --> 01:59:52.039 You're telling me that. How about your Themazini? Does he is? 2563 01:59:52.079 --> 01:59:52.600 He p two? 2564 01:59:52.960 --> 01:59:55.119 No, he's in the Grand Orient Lodge. 2565 01:59:55.279 --> 01:59:56.880 Grand Orient, not regular. 2566 01:59:57.199 --> 01:59:58.319 So what counts? 2567 01:59:58.600 --> 02:00:04.960 Uh? The three degrees of the Craft lodges mainly split 2568 02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:07.800 between England and the United States. So the York right 2569 02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:10.000 is that what the York Right, like the Scottish right, 2570 02:00:10.079 --> 02:00:12.239 is a pellet and is not held in union with 2571 02:00:12.279 --> 02:00:13.399 all free Masonic ideals. 2572 02:00:13.520 --> 02:00:16.520 So and the British Empire did what What was the 2573 02:00:16.560 --> 02:00:18.279 function of Freemason in the British Empire? 2574 02:00:18.279 --> 02:00:21.079 In your view, it was a social club? 2575 02:00:21.359 --> 02:00:23.159 Is it a sorry, a speculative Mason? 2576 02:00:23.840 --> 02:00:25.359 All Masons are speculative Masons. 2577 02:00:25.520 --> 02:00:26.000 No, they're not. 2578 02:00:26.439 --> 02:00:29.960 The original Masons were they were, They were stone workers, 2579 02:00:30.000 --> 02:00:31.439 They weren't speculative free Mason. 2580 02:00:31.720 --> 02:00:34.920 And yes, it did originate from operative Masons in the 2581 02:00:35.000 --> 02:00:39.199 late thirteen hundreds as a Catholic organization which very explicitly 2582 02:00:39.600 --> 02:00:43.079 held that you must love the Church with God and 2583 02:00:43.119 --> 02:00:43.720 the Church without. 2584 02:00:43.720 --> 02:00:45.840 You're not speculative freemasonry. 2585 02:00:45.399 --> 02:00:47.800 All right, it was. It was the origin of speculative 2586 02:00:47.800 --> 02:00:52.359 free poem, Catholicist poem. 2587 02:00:52.520 --> 02:00:55.000 Catholic churches condemned you for centuries. 2588 02:00:54.600 --> 02:00:58.319 Seven times, seven different times. 2589 02:00:57.720 --> 02:01:00.680 Why why tell me why I know? Why do you 2590 02:01:01.039 --> 02:01:01.600 do you know? Why? 2591 02:01:01.640 --> 02:01:01.840 You know? 2592 02:01:02.000 --> 02:01:04.720 Because you know why the pope inside eight? Shut up, 2593 02:01:04.760 --> 02:01:07.479 I've read the paper. You've been interrupting me while asking 2594 02:01:07.520 --> 02:01:09.319 because your answers are stupid, Okay. 2595 02:01:09.119 --> 02:01:11.359 Not stupid. You don't know what you're talking about this song? 2596 02:01:11.439 --> 02:01:14.199 And no, do you know why secret? 2597 02:01:14.399 --> 02:01:15.520 Because you're acting as. 2598 02:01:15.399 --> 02:01:20.640 A seventeen thirty eight inhumanium in humanim mo janus. Yeah, 2599 02:01:20.680 --> 02:01:22.439 in that one, what was the reason he gets? 2600 02:01:22.439 --> 02:01:24.680 Sure to watch Tim kastier Raltz and I at eight pm. 2601 02:01:24.720 --> 02:01:27.560 Guys were over time, okay, and if we have more 2602 02:01:27.560 --> 02:01:28.960 time I'd say, let's let's get into Macon. 2603 02:01:29.119 --> 02:01:30.520 I'm happy to come back and do masonry. 2604 02:01:30.600 --> 02:01:31.760 Let's do another one on the freemake. 2605 02:01:31.800 --> 02:01:33.760 Even just from the historical perspective, I think I think 2606 02:01:33.880 --> 02:01:34.920 he doesn't know what he's talking about. 2607 02:01:34.960 --> 02:01:38.319 Well, okay, I think, but you're lying because Albert Pike 2608 02:01:38.439 --> 02:01:39.560 is very influential. 2609 02:01:39.640 --> 02:01:42.439 Albert Pike is not influential outside of the Southern jurisdiction 2610 02:01:42.479 --> 02:01:46.000 at the Scottish Masonry All right, do you do you want 2611 02:01:46.000 --> 02:01:46.960 to shout anything up before we go. 2612 02:01:47.319 --> 02:01:47.520 Yes. 2613 02:01:48.199 --> 02:01:51.119 You can find me at my website Jason Alsos dot com. 2614 02:01:51.159 --> 02:01:52.520 You can find me on YouTube. You can find me 2615 02:01:52.880 --> 02:01:54.920 usually the fourth Hower of Alex Jones every Friday. 2616 02:01:55.319 --> 02:01:55.439 Uh. 2617 02:01:55.560 --> 02:01:58.279 You can find me writing Sam Hid Show, and find 2618 02:01:58.279 --> 02:01:58.800 me on Twitter. 2619 02:01:59.119 --> 02:01:59.359 Yeah. 2620 02:01:59.760 --> 02:02:01.680 Uh, my name is Aden Mattis. I'm the host of 2621 02:02:01.720 --> 02:02:05.399 the lore Lodge History Unhinged and the Weird Bible podcast. 2622 02:02:05.600 --> 02:02:07.439 I do want to quickly say that the Anglican Church 2623 02:02:07.479 --> 02:02:09.840 does not necessarily agree with me about freemasonry before I 2624 02:02:09.840 --> 02:02:10.680 get in trouble for that. 2625 02:02:11.119 --> 02:02:11.239 Uh. 2626 02:02:11.520 --> 02:02:13.920 But yeah, that's that's where I'm leaving this. You can 2627 02:02:13.920 --> 02:02:15.439 find me here on YouTube. 2628 02:02:15.319 --> 02:02:19.800 Timothy Gordon on Twitter. I'm at timothee Ology t I 2629 02:02:19.920 --> 02:02:22.439 M O T H E E O L O G Y, 2630 02:02:22.720 --> 02:02:26.439 and I'm on YouTube as well, Timothy Gordon doing a 2631 02:02:26.479 --> 02:02:28.000 show called Rules for Introgrades. 2632 02:02:28.640 --> 02:02:31.279 Thanks for having us on. This was fun at each other. 2633 02:02:31.439 --> 02:02:33.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, the most heated debate we've had. 2634 02:02:34.119 --> 02:02:36.399 Who thought We're gonna be back tonight at eight pm 2635 02:02:36.439 --> 02:02:38.960 for timcast I r L. Don't miss it, Bring your 2636 02:02:38.960 --> 02:02:41.560 friend friends, tell your grandma. Thanks franking out. We'll see 2637 02:02:41.600 --> 02:02:41.920 all then