WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:32.560 The the the the the the the the the the. 2 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:39.320 The the. 3 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:52.079 The the. 4 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.079 The the. 5 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:31.359 The the the the the the dout the b the 6 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:59.719 the the the the the the the the the dout 7 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:00.640 the the. 8 00:02:32.080 --> 00:03:03.439 The Alright, welcome all you chad nerds, dorks, fast boys, 9 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:09.039 slow boys. It is time time to reconnect with one 10 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:12.800 of our good buddies, Base lit Analyzer. You know him 11 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:19.280 from the Internet as the analyzer of literature par excellence. 12 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:22.319 He has a channel that will be linked after the stream. 13 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:26.159 You can't tag people in the live streams that in 14 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:28.719 the titles anymore. I don't know why, but I will. 15 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:29.280 Add it later. 16 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.560 And we're gonna be getting into a couple films that 17 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:34.159 I like. 18 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:35.360 I actually like both of them. 19 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:38.039 I see some people in the chat are already not 20 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:41.199 fans of weapons. I thought both films were good, But 21 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:46.439 it turns out that BLA has done a previous pretty 22 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.319 extensive prisoner's analysis. I'm told I didn't actually know he 23 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:55.479 did one. I also have added Prisoners to Esoteric Hollywood three. 24 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.599 So it's a perfect subject for both of us to cover, 25 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.840 and both of these films have a lot of similarities. 26 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:04.319 But before we get to that, BLA, how you doing. 27 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.039 I'm doing well, man, Thanks for having me. I really 28 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:11.080 got a lot to say about these I think that 29 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.280 I was not a fan of weapons. I have some 30 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.279 I don't know about Harsh, but I got some things 31 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:17.720 to say about it. But I do think these two 32 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:23.759 films go together and thematically. And Prisoners, I think is 33 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.319 an extremely dark film, but it is really well done. 34 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:29.639 The New York Times came out with a list of 35 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:32.480 the top fifty films of the twenty first century. I 36 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:34.560 didn't really agree with the list, so I came out 37 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.399 with my own and I put Prisoners at number two. 38 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:40.079 Oh wow, list, So what was one? 39 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.680 One was The Passion of the Christ, which is not 40 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:47.560 on any lists, and three, I think three was Children 41 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:51.000 of Men. There have been a number of really great 42 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:52.800 films that there will be blood. There's you know, a 43 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:54.439 lot of the ones that you and I both covered 44 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:57.759 are are on there. A lot of people forget. The 45 00:04:57.839 --> 00:04:59.560 weird thing about the list is a lot of people 46 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:01.720 look at the list and they totally forget what films 47 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:03.879 were made in the twenty first century, because there's been 48 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.920 a real dearth of great films made of this century, right, 49 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:11.240 and and a lot of the great films tend to 50 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:15.160 be pretty timeless, but movies maybe the twentieth century, tend 51 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.639 to be clearly put into a twentieth century category. And 52 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.160 now we have in the last you know, twenty four 53 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:23.720 to twenty five years, we have a whole bunch of 54 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:27.120 films that are completely unlike anything I think from the 55 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:31.319 twentieth century. And Prisoners is as a lot that it's 56 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.480 sort of I don't know, you could place it in 57 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.800 a framework of other films, but it is so dark 58 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:39.519 and so new. There's something so new about it that 59 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:42.439 I think it really should be placed there. Weapons. On 60 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:44.759 the other hand, I mean, we're going to get into it, so, 61 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:48.759 but I think that I think that the way the 62 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:52.319 films were executed is completely different, and that says something 63 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:53.879 about the way that films are made. Now. 64 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.480 Yeah, let's start with Prisoners, because it is, I agree, 65 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:01.800 a better film for sure, and I am a fan 66 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:04.920 of it. I remember watching it when it came out, 67 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:07.399 I watched it again, and then I recently watched it 68 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:11.079 before writing us start calay with three, and that's a 69 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:17.519 perfect place to start. Just briefly about Villainieux. I've not 70 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:19.079 seen every villain New film. 71 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:20.040 I don't like them. 72 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:20.319 All. 73 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.160 I don't like a lot of people like Arrival. I 74 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:27.360 think it's a propaganda didn't care for it. Prisoners is 75 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:29.920 great enemy. I'm a big fan of that. I think 76 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.199 it's really good. It's a Caro, really good fan of that. 77 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.040 I do like Blood Runner twenty forty nine. A lot 78 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.759 of people don't like those. So before we get into it, 79 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:42.199 just briefly, do you like or dislike those that I listed? 80 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:47.160 Yeah, I think that this director, Denny Villeneuve. 81 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:48.600 Is well, of course Doune, I love Doune, but go ahead. 82 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:52.600 Yeah, I think he's one of the great directors working today, 83 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:57.839 and he's he's really improved. His movies tend to lead 84 00:06:57.920 --> 00:06:59.560 on to the next movie. You can you can see 85 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.079 that they were all kind of leading up to Dune 86 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:05.319 and Blade Runner twenty forty nine, of course was It's 87 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:08.399 funny because I didn't know what to expect with that. 88 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.639 I figured it would be good because his films prior 89 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.800 to that were solid, solid, in a way that most 90 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:19.800 directors don't tend to. He has the same sort of template, 91 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.160 but he reinvents his movies as they go on, and 92 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.279 I think that Blade Runner twenty forty nine really was 93 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:27.160 like a launch pad for the rest of these movies, 94 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:29.560 because before that his I mean, when you go back 95 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:33.639 to his early films like Insnd's if you've seen that one, 96 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:35.920 he was kind of an art house director. A lot 97 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:38.279 of great filmmakers start off as art house directors, and 98 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:40.759 then they go into his movies go into a real 99 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.959 twenty first into the twenty first century, and into a 100 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:50.600 kind of post apocalyptic or dystopian setting where we look 101 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.519 at things with a brand new machine to them. I 102 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.240 did not think that Arrival was Arrival was not in 103 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.480 my top fifty. I thought Charlie Sheen's The Arrival was 104 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:04.360 better than a Rival. I thought that it was like again, 105 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.399 like you said, it was a total propaganda piece, and 106 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:11.000 you know, it had Jiji and Pang, you know, saving 107 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.120 the world at the end of the Gnostic Egg, and 108 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:16.839 it was too I think the reason it was not good, though, 109 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:19.120 aside from all that, was that it was too sentimental. 110 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:21.600 There was too much sentimentality, and the film was like 111 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:26.199 sacarine and saturated, and that plays to a section of 112 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.879 the audience. I think that sort of relies on that 113 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:33.080 sort of thing. But but the rest of the movies 114 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.639 are hard. I mean, Sacario is like a sick movie. 115 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:37.559 That movie is awesome. 116 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:39.159 Yeah. 117 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.840 And so later on and then Dune. I mean I 118 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:45.679 I was very hesitant about Dune when I first sawt 119 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.440 I actually saw it like four times before I really 120 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:51.120 liked the film for some reason. And then I was 121 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:52.960 I was sick one day and a friend of mine 122 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:54.639 was like, dude, just if you're sick, just sit there 123 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:56.720 and watch Dune. Just watch it all day. And I did, 124 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:59.320 and it totally changed my mind about the movie. And 125 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:02.200 we went to see into and there was a lady. 126 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:05.279 There was a black lady in the front with a 127 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:08.120 sleeping bag in the in the movie theater, and I 128 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.120 was like, what is this? Is she living here or something? 129 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:13.559 And then she like rolled up into the sleeping bag 130 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.240 and she was all about she was like, was the 131 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:17.039 Dune Worm. 132 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.080 I was gonna say, you just you found out that 133 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:24.840 she was the worm? She was the the worm Emperor. Yeah, Alito, 134 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:25.759 the worm Emperor. 135 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.279 Yeah yeah, Lisa, and I've got you. But she was 136 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:30.799 yelling at in the theater and and I thought it 137 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.440 was awesome. I thought it was really really cool. Uh. 138 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:38.679 And so you know this this one, I remember seeing 139 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:40.039 this one in the theater and this is one of 140 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:41.879 his kind of earlier works, and I didn't really know 141 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:43.480 what to expect going into I know, it was like 142 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.519 Jake Jill and Hall. I like his movies, you know whatever. 143 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:49.000 So I went to see it because the previews didn't 144 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:51.320 really indicate what this movie was going to be about, 145 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.399 and it was. So it's so much darker than you 146 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.840 could have imagined walking into it for the first time. 147 00:09:57.159 --> 00:10:00.879 I mean, it really is pretty incredible. It's a pretty 148 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:02.279 it plumbs the deaths. 149 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:05.039 So yeah, let's start with Prisoners and then we'll get 150 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.480 to Weapons because Weapons is more recent, kind of more 151 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:11.600 in the in the popular zeitgeist, because it was a 152 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:17.000 success to the box office and critically speaking. So I 153 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.960 remember going to see Prisoners, and just like you said, 154 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.399 it was way darker than I expected. And I remember 155 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:24.240 one of the reasons I went to see it was 156 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:29.159 because at the time when it came out, Lord Voldemort 157 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:31.519 mentioned it because he said, you. 158 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:32.759 Either got this new movie out. 159 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.720 And the villain is called Alice Jones. Okay, the villain 160 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:37.320 in the movie is named after. 161 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.840 Me, folks, that's not accidental. And of course Paul Dano 162 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:44.480 is playing a sort of villain named Alex Jones and 163 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.120 I don't. I think it's interesting. I don't know if 164 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.559 they really intentionally did that. It's possible, but that was 165 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:54.159 the thing that made me think at the time, I 166 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:58.480 need to go see this, and I think I'm thinking, okay, 167 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.720 this is some sort of murder mystery. And as you noted, 168 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:03.559 I'm sure most people in the audience have already seen this. 169 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.360 It does end up being way darker. I think you 170 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:12.879 could argue is it is a kind of a cult film, 171 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:16.440 although the occult or the Satanic is not explicit in 172 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.799 the film, because we end up thinking maybe they're just 173 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:26.240 angry boomer atheists now who are going to teach everyone 174 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.919 a lesson due to you know, the death of their 175 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.720 of their their child. But then we have all these 176 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.320 other elements that seem to come in, like mind control, 177 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:44.440 a trauma based mind control, ritual abuse, the programming through mazes, 178 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.240 and the use of mazes. So it definitely goes, as 179 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.519 you said, in a very dark direction. I think a 180 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:51.879 few people noticed, and I'm not sure what to make 181 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:55.559 of this, but Jillenhall does wear a prominent free Masonic 182 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:01.440 ring in the movie as a detective, So so yeah, 183 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:03.840 going into it, you think that it's one thing, and 184 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:05.200 I think everybody was kind of surprised. 185 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:05.960 There was also an. 186 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.679 Interesting theme very early on in the film between you know, 187 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:15.279 Hugh Jackman being the father who loses the daughter and 188 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:19.399 then of course almost loses his own life, but he's 189 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.879 a prepper, and they make specific reference to various Christian 190 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:27.879 sort of evangelical principles when he's taking his son hunting 191 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:29.720 at the very beginning, and you go down and you 192 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.759 see the basement and he's got all this prepper gear everywhere. 193 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.759 When I saw that initially, I was like, oh, here 194 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:37.679 we go. We're going to have you know, everybody who's 195 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.320 a Christian is some sort of evil idiot, you know, 196 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.320 fundamentalist into the world prepper. It didn't exactly go in 197 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:46.480 that direction. There's a little bit of it though, because 198 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.879 of course, when the daughter is shown gone and she's disappeared, 199 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.840 this sort of sends Hugh Jackman into a rage and 200 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:57.279 he becomes a kind of vigilante where he wants to 201 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.919 exact his own justice, his own venge. He's going to 202 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:07.519 you know, waterboard and torture Paul Dano until Alex Jones 203 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.279 until he gets the information out that he wants. But 204 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:14.399 the thing that I think rescued it from that anti 205 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.519 sort of Christian perspective or anti fundamentals perspective was that, well, 206 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.159 Huge Agmen is actually kind of right, right. It's almost 207 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.519 like everybody who's kind of on the trail just kind 208 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:26.799 of has a piece of the puzzle, and we as 209 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:30.600 the audience are kind of on the journey of a maze, 210 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:32.080 and so the movie is a kind of amaze and 211 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.519 we're trying to figure it out, and we all kind 212 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:37.840 of have these pieces of the puzzle. But as we 213 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.360 notice with Jillen Hall, which we'll mention in a moment, 214 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:44.120 sometimes the things that are sort of the the key 215 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:47.120 elements of the puzzle or the things that put the puzzle. 216 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.320 Together, they're actually in our face the whole time. 217 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:53.120 And that's what Jillen Hall mentions, and I'll let you 218 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:53.759 give your take. 219 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.440 Well, we have different characters who are lost in different 220 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.440 sections of the maze and they don't don't know that 221 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:04.559 they're in them, and we see this, you know, we 222 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:06.759 see it on the medallion, a kind of talisman from 223 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:07.320 the guy that. 224 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:10.559 They exactly well, he's a Catholic priest who has actually 225 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:11.320 abused boys. 226 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:16.159 Well, the Catholic priest. So so there are different layers 227 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:19.639 to the maze. It's and that's interesting because when Jillen 228 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:23.799 All breaks into David Desmalchian's house and he sees the 229 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.159 the whole house is covered in a maze. And and 230 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.559 that's when I think the movie really conveys to the 231 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:30.960 audience that there's no escaping the maze, that it's just 232 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.240 a continuous maze until he finds the this book that 233 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.320 says if you find this, then you can make your 234 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.600 way out. So then we realize that there is one 235 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.720 character who's made his way out of the maze, but 236 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.600 it seems to be by design. Then we find ourselves 237 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.879 in along the journey, like you were saying, with different 238 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:49.799 pieces of it. We find that at one point Jillen 239 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:51.799 Hall has nothing to do, so he, you know, he 240 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.759 starts knocking on doors of all the offenders in the 241 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:56.919 region and then he in the in the zone, and 242 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.759 then he finds this Catholic priest. Catholic priest is seemingly 243 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:05.000 in his own maze of guilt and alcoholism and creeperdom, 244 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.720 and he's face lying, face down in his own house. 245 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:11.960 And then we go behind the fridge into an abyss. 246 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:15.039 We find this this other section of the house that's 247 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:19.759 in a basement, which is mirroring the later outside prison 248 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.480 under the car at the Demon Woman's house. But when 249 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:25.039 we go down there, we see this guy tied up 250 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.000 in a chair and we're wondering, who, wonder who is 251 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:30.480 this and that so we learned that that guy is 252 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:34.360 the guy in the picture who is the Boomerstock guy 253 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.480 who has the medallion on with the Winnebago who went 254 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.440 to the priest to offer his confession and says that 255 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:46.240 he has on alived sixteen human people. We'll say, and 256 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:52.720 so apparently there's there's even layers of creeps in the movie. 257 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:55.080 There's the creep and then there's the creep who is 258 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.080 even worse that he left tied up down in the 259 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:00.120 biss and he tries to tell the cops this is 260 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.320 what happened, but he's also lost it. He's also kind 261 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.440 of catatonic, like Paul Danna's character is. We see we 262 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:10.440 see characters who return to the crime scene. We have 263 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.440 the character who returns to the vigil. We have characters 264 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.360 who return to the house. We have red herrings. But 265 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.039 all of what's interesting about this movie is that it's 266 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.240 not like the normal. It's not like Sherlock Holmes the 267 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.960 End detective story or a murder mystery where there are 268 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.320 red herrings and we're supposed to think it's one person, 269 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.919 and we we know the whole time it's not Hugh Jackman. 270 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.720 But Jillenhall also seems to know that it's not him, 271 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.000 but he still has to follow him, and by following him, 272 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:39.679 he ends up learning the truth of who the character is. 273 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:42.320 He's like you said, he's also Hugh Jackman's character is 274 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:46.000 also right, because this sort of is where I think 275 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:50.879 the movie represents different layers of how complex humanity is. 276 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:54.480 Because the main the reaction I think that most people 277 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:57.360 would have right away when their kid goes missing is 278 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:00.440 exactly what Hugh Jackman does. He goes insane. And that's 279 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.200 one thing I think that show. It's sort of lacking 280 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.960 that we don't see that in news stories. A lot 281 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:08.920 of times. We don't see people a lot of times. 282 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.480 You know, you get the you get the dad of 283 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.279 the person, and they come up and they're all calm, 284 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:14.799 and they give a speech and it's been a day. 285 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.400 In this one, Hugh Jackman is insane. He waits for 286 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:21.559 Paul Dano to get released, and he attacks him physically 287 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.440 in the parking lot. Then he goes and takes the 288 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.759 law into his own hands because he thinks that nobody 289 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.920 else is doing it. But then what what happens with 290 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.079 that is that he ends up in his own prison 291 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.759 and he realizes. I think that throughout the thing that 292 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:38.720 that there's a scene where he gets on his knees 293 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.799 and he prays, and he's saying the Lord's prayer, but 294 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.319 he can't say forgive us those who trespass against us 295 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:47.480 because he's he's locked up, because he's got this guy 296 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:51.279 who's locked up in a waterboard closet. And the again, 297 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.839 the irony is that he himself is going to end 298 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:55.279 up in almost the same exact pay. 299 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.440 Each each character, in many ways is in some kind 300 00:17:59.480 --> 00:17:59.960 of a prison. 301 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:05.240 That's right, and I think that the only are The 302 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.960 way that the audience is supposed to maneuver through the 303 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:10.160 maze is obviously through the person of Jake Jillen Hall. 304 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:14.640 And that's interesting because because jill and Hall, his character 305 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.920 who's Detective Loki, which you know, the names are significant 306 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.440 in this movie. He's a kind of uh, he's not 307 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.119 a he's not a trickster, but he's kind of navigating 308 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.240 between two worlds. And I think that's the deal with 309 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:30.839 the occult symbolism and the you know, he's got a 310 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.680 his neck tattoo, it's like it's not a black sun, 311 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.960 it's not a sun wheel, but it's like a sun 312 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:37.519 with a cross in it. And then he's got the 313 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.079 Masonic ring. He's got runes tattooed on his Speaking of runes, 314 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:43.880 he's got runes tattooed on his on his knuckles. And 315 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.160 I think this shows that he's kind of a liminal character. 316 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:50.039 He's like a psychopomp. He's he's marked, and he's coded 317 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:55.039 with occult symbolism. So he's navigating between the Christian world 318 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:59.359 of Hugh Jackman's family life and the satanic world of 319 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:04.039 the bad people. But he's our guide through the through 320 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.839 the dark spaces of the film. 321 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.039 Yeah, excellent point, excellent bringing. 322 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.160 I think also it's worth mentioning, as I put in 323 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.039 a strikeli with three that and I don't know if 324 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.039 this is the case, but the film also perhaps draws 325 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:24.000 upon real events and crimes like the Franklin cover up. Yeah, well, yeah, 326 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.519 the first thing reminding of was, you know, Nick Bryant's 327 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:31.519 Franklin Scandal book, and of course there's a there was 328 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.359 a connection between boys town h and Catholic charities and 329 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:41.319 so forth that were being used to supply male street 330 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:47.319 children to politicians and elites. Although this film doesn't directly 331 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:52.359 implicate political figures, again, it just sort of bear bears 332 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:55.279 similarities in parallels to some of these real cases. And 333 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.000 I even mentioned the McMartin preschool case, which also I 334 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.279 think could be perhaps an influence on the story, all 335 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:05.519 of which is real, all which is very sused, especially 336 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.200 when the FBI declassified the Martin case stuff, and a 337 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.359 lot of what Ted Gunnerson had said was actually vindicated. 338 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.920 That there were tunnels, which the media and everybody made 339 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.119 fun of, so that was all crazy, satanic panic stuff. 340 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.000 But some of these. 341 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:24.200 Elements are actually are actually real, So it's important not 342 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:27.200 to overcorrect and go in some other direction. 343 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.319 So I did want to ask you that. 344 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:35.240 Because I noted that you know Loki has the the Runes, 345 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.799 he has these marks, and of course, obviously Loki from 346 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:43.319 Nordic mythology, what was the significance that you give to 347 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.960 Gillenhall's character being Loki the only significance. 348 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.440 I think is that one of the major things that 349 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.440 sticks out to me is there's a scene when we 350 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:56.920 see him from above and behind and he's got his 351 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.880 hands on his head and he's sort of looking at 352 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.000 pictures that he spread out out in front of him. 353 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.279 So we're supposed to see what he's you know, our 354 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:04.680 point of view is that we're seeing him, and we're 355 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:06.759 seeing his point of view, and he when he puts 356 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:08.880 his hands on his head, we see that his knuckles 357 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:13.359 are tattooed with ruins and and and things from the 358 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:16.480 UH and astrological symbols. But the one that really sticks 359 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.799 out is he has an Odell run, which kind of 360 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.599 looks like a like a like a ribbon, you know, 361 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.400 that you would tie on your on your lapel. It's 362 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:30.200 called the Odell run and it signifies heritage. And I 363 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:35.200 think that this is also in political circles, can't I 364 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:39.759 mean careful, but but his uh the rune signifies heritage, 365 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:43.680 and that that that comes back into play when he's 366 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.279 talking to the priest and he says that he grew 367 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.319 you know, he spent three years in uh can Core 368 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.799 a boy's home or something like that, so he knows 369 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.119 what the priest is up to. He knows how to 370 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:57.680 navigate the world. He knows he also it's it's funny 371 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:01.359 because we see him in this dark place, but we 372 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.279 also see that he has something to unlock the way 373 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.880 that these people are. In other words, he when he's 374 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:11.039 talking to the wife, when he when he first I 375 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.559 think one of the key scenes is that when he 376 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.799 goes into the house to first talk to the wife, 377 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.119 and the wife asked him if he has children. He 378 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:19.359 doesn't answer the question, but he stands up and he says, 379 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:22.799 I'm gonna find your daughter, and that makes him some 380 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.160 sort of charged character. He's a he's a marked care 381 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.079 he's almost like a psychopomp because he knows how to 382 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.599 navigate the world, but he also knows how to bring 383 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.319 her out of it somehow, and we believe, we don't realize. 384 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:37.559 I think till the end of the film that we 385 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:39.519 believe that he's going to catch her. And this is 386 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:43.200 so unlike reality. It seems to be truthful but not 387 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.200 factual because the the you know, when when someone goes 388 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.279 missing for twenty four hours, it's like the twenty four 389 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:51.200 hours is up, then the seven days is up, and 390 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.880 we're almost never gonna find him, but we believe that 391 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.359 he's going to find him, and then he does. 392 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:56.119 Uh. 393 00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:59.680 But it also means that Jake Jillanall I think is 394 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.640 one of the even though he's sort of mediating between 395 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:07.000 these two layers of consciousness or spiritual realms, he also 396 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.559 is a character that I think we watched the film 397 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:14.039 and we he's He's like the most truthful character. He's pure. 398 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.359 He never sees he eats one time at the beginning 399 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:19.480 of the film. We never see him sleep. He tells 400 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:22.359 the boss, you know, you could have told me that 401 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:23.720