Speaker 1: The the the the the the the the the the.
Speaker 2: The the.
Speaker 1: The the.
Speaker 2: The the.
Speaker 1: The the the the the the dout the b the
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Speaker 3: The Alright, welcome all you chad nerds, dorks, fast boys,
slow boys. It is time time to reconnect with one
of our good buddies, Base lit Analyzer. You know him
from the Internet as the analyzer of literature par excellence.
He has a channel that will be linked after the stream.
You can't tag people in the live streams that in
the titles anymore. I don't know why, but I will.
Speaker 2: Add it later.
Speaker 3: And we're gonna be getting into a couple films that
I like.
Speaker 4: I actually like both of them.
Speaker 3: I see some people in the chat are already not
fans of weapons. I thought both films were good, But
it turns out that BLA has done a previous pretty
extensive prisoner's analysis. I'm told I didn't actually know he
did one. I also have added Prisoners to Esoteric Hollywood three.
So it's a perfect subject for both of us to cover,
and both of these films have a lot of similarities.
But before we get to that, BLA, how you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, man, Thanks for having me. I really
got a lot to say about these I think that
I was not a fan of weapons. I have some
I don't know about Harsh, but I got some things
to say about it. But I do think these two
films go together and thematically. And Prisoners, I think is
an extremely dark film, but it is really well done.
The New York Times came out with a list of
the top fifty films of the twenty first century. I
didn't really agree with the list, so I came out
with my own and I put Prisoners at number two.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, list, So what was one?
Speaker 2: One was The Passion of the Christ, which is not
on any lists, and three, I think three was Children
of Men. There have been a number of really great
films that there will be blood. There's you know, a
lot of the ones that you and I both covered
are are on there. A lot of people forget. The
weird thing about the list is a lot of people
look at the list and they totally forget what films
were made in the twenty first century, because there's been
a real dearth of great films made of this century, right,
and and a lot of the great films tend to
be pretty timeless, but movies maybe the twentieth century, tend
to be clearly put into a twentieth century category. And
now we have in the last you know, twenty four
to twenty five years, we have a whole bunch of
films that are completely unlike anything I think from the
twentieth century. And Prisoners is as a lot that it's
sort of I don't know, you could place it in
a framework of other films, but it is so dark
and so new. There's something so new about it that
I think it really should be placed there. Weapons. On
the other hand, I mean, we're going to get into it, so,
but I think that I think that the way the
films were executed is completely different, and that says something
about the way that films are made. Now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's start with Prisoners, because it is, I agree,
a better film for sure, and I am a fan
of it. I remember watching it when it came out,
I watched it again, and then I recently watched it
before writing us start calay with three, and that's a
perfect place to start. Just briefly about Villainieux. I've not
seen every villain New film.
Speaker 4: I don't like them.
Speaker 1: All.
Speaker 3: I don't like a lot of people like Arrival. I
think it's a propaganda didn't care for it. Prisoners is
great enemy. I'm a big fan of that. I think
it's really good. It's a Caro, really good fan of that.
I do like Blood Runner twenty forty nine. A lot
of people don't like those. So before we get into it,
just briefly, do you like or dislike those that I listed?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that this director, Denny Villeneuve.
Speaker 3: Is well, of course Doune, I love Doune, but go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's one of the great directors working today,
and he's he's really improved. His movies tend to lead
on to the next movie. You can you can see
that they were all kind of leading up to Dune
and Blade Runner twenty forty nine, of course was It's
funny because I didn't know what to expect with that.
I figured it would be good because his films prior
to that were solid, solid, in a way that most
directors don't tend to. He has the same sort of template,
but he reinvents his movies as they go on, and
I think that Blade Runner twenty forty nine really was
like a launch pad for the rest of these movies,
because before that his I mean, when you go back
to his early films like Insnd's if you've seen that one,
he was kind of an art house director. A lot
of great filmmakers start off as art house directors, and
then they go into his movies go into a real
twenty first into the twenty first century, and into a
kind of post apocalyptic or dystopian setting where we look
at things with a brand new machine to them. I
did not think that Arrival was Arrival was not in
my top fifty. I thought Charlie Sheen's The Arrival was
better than a Rival. I thought that it was like again,
like you said, it was a total propaganda piece, and
you know, it had Jiji and Pang, you know, saving
the world at the end of the Gnostic Egg, and
it was too I think the reason it was not good, though,
aside from all that, was that it was too sentimental.
There was too much sentimentality, and the film was like
sacarine and saturated, and that plays to a section of
the audience. I think that sort of relies on that
sort of thing. But but the rest of the movies
are hard. I mean, Sacario is like a sick movie.
That movie is awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so later on and then Dune. I mean I
I was very hesitant about Dune when I first sawt
I actually saw it like four times before I really
liked the film for some reason. And then I was
I was sick one day and a friend of mine
was like, dude, just if you're sick, just sit there
and watch Dune. Just watch it all day. And I did,
and it totally changed my mind about the movie. And
we went to see into and there was a lady.
There was a black lady in the front with a
sleeping bag in the in the movie theater, and I
was like, what is this? Is she living here or something?
And then she like rolled up into the sleeping bag
and she was all about she was like, was the
Dune Worm.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, you just you found out that
she was the worm? She was the the worm Emperor. Yeah, Alito,
the worm Emperor.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Lisa, and I've got you. But she was
yelling at in the theater and and I thought it
was awesome. I thought it was really really cool. Uh.
And so you know this this one, I remember seeing
this one in the theater and this is one of
his kind of earlier works, and I didn't really know
what to expect going into I know, it was like
Jake Jill and Hall. I like his movies, you know whatever.
So I went to see it because the previews didn't
really indicate what this movie was going to be about,
and it was. So it's so much darker than you
could have imagined walking into it for the first time.
I mean, it really is pretty incredible. It's a pretty
it plumbs the deaths.
Speaker 3: So yeah, let's start with Prisoners and then we'll get
to Weapons because Weapons is more recent, kind of more
in the in the popular zeitgeist, because it was a
success to the box office and critically speaking. So I
remember going to see Prisoners, and just like you said,
it was way darker than I expected. And I remember
one of the reasons I went to see it was
because at the time when it came out, Lord Voldemort
mentioned it because he said, you.
Speaker 2: Either got this new movie out.
Speaker 4: And the villain is called Alice Jones. Okay, the villain
in the movie is named after.
Speaker 3: Me, folks, that's not accidental. And of course Paul Dano
is playing a sort of villain named Alex Jones and
I don't. I think it's interesting. I don't know if
they really intentionally did that. It's possible, but that was
the thing that made me think at the time, I
need to go see this, and I think I'm thinking, okay,
this is some sort of murder mystery. And as you noted,
I'm sure most people in the audience have already seen this.
It does end up being way darker. I think you
could argue is it is a kind of a cult film,
although the occult or the Satanic is not explicit in
the film, because we end up thinking maybe they're just
angry boomer atheists now who are going to teach everyone
a lesson due to you know, the death of their
of their their child. But then we have all these
other elements that seem to come in, like mind control,
a trauma based mind control, ritual abuse, the programming through mazes,
and the use of mazes. So it definitely goes, as
you said, in a very dark direction. I think a
few people noticed, and I'm not sure what to make
of this, but Jillenhall does wear a prominent free Masonic
ring in the movie as a detective, So so yeah,
going into it, you think that it's one thing, and
I think everybody was kind of surprised.
Speaker 4: There was also an.
Speaker 3: Interesting theme very early on in the film between you know,
Hugh Jackman being the father who loses the daughter and
then of course almost loses his own life, but he's
a prepper, and they make specific reference to various Christian
sort of evangelical principles when he's taking his son hunting
at the very beginning, and you go down and you
see the basement and he's got all this prepper gear everywhere.
When I saw that initially, I was like, oh, here
we go. We're going to have you know, everybody who's
a Christian is some sort of evil idiot, you know,
fundamentalist into the world prepper. It didn't exactly go in
that direction. There's a little bit of it though, because
of course, when the daughter is shown gone and she's disappeared,
this sort of sends Hugh Jackman into a rage and
he becomes a kind of vigilante where he wants to
exact his own justice, his own venge. He's going to
you know, waterboard and torture Paul Dano until Alex Jones
until he gets the information out that he wants. But
the thing that I think rescued it from that anti
sort of Christian perspective or anti fundamentals perspective was that, well,
Huge Agmen is actually kind of right, right. It's almost
like everybody who's kind of on the trail just kind
of has a piece of the puzzle, and we as
the audience are kind of on the journey of a maze,
and so the movie is a kind of amaze and
we're trying to figure it out, and we all kind
of have these pieces of the puzzle. But as we
notice with Jillen Hall, which we'll mention in a moment,
sometimes the things that are sort of the the key
elements of the puzzle or the things that put the puzzle.
Speaker 4: Together, they're actually in our face the whole time.
Speaker 3: And that's what Jillen Hall mentions, and I'll let you
give your take.
Speaker 2: Well, we have different characters who are lost in different
sections of the maze and they don't don't know that
they're in them, and we see this, you know, we
see it on the medallion, a kind of talisman from
the guy that.
Speaker 3: They exactly well, he's a Catholic priest who has actually
abused boys.
Speaker 2: Well, the Catholic priest. So so there are different layers
to the maze. It's and that's interesting because when Jillen
All breaks into David Desmalchian's house and he sees the
the whole house is covered in a maze. And and
that's when I think the movie really conveys to the
audience that there's no escaping the maze, that it's just
a continuous maze until he finds the this book that
says if you find this, then you can make your
way out. So then we realize that there is one
character who's made his way out of the maze, but
it seems to be by design. Then we find ourselves
in along the journey, like you were saying, with different
pieces of it. We find that at one point Jillen
Hall has nothing to do, so he, you know, he
starts knocking on doors of all the offenders in the
region and then he in the in the zone, and
then he finds this Catholic priest. Catholic priest is seemingly
in his own maze of guilt and alcoholism and creeperdom,
and he's face lying, face down in his own house.
And then we go behind the fridge into an abyss.
We find this this other section of the house that's
in a basement, which is mirroring the later outside prison
under the car at the Demon Woman's house. But when
we go down there, we see this guy tied up
in a chair and we're wondering, who, wonder who is
this and that so we learned that that guy is
the guy in the picture who is the Boomerstock guy
who has the medallion on with the Winnebago who went
to the priest to offer his confession and says that
he has on alived sixteen human people. We'll say, and
so apparently there's there's even layers of creeps in the movie.
There's the creep and then there's the creep who is
even worse that he left tied up down in the
biss and he tries to tell the cops this is
what happened, but he's also lost it. He's also kind
of catatonic, like Paul Danna's character is. We see we
see characters who return to the crime scene. We have
the character who returns to the vigil. We have characters
who return to the house. We have red herrings. But
all of what's interesting about this movie is that it's
not like the normal. It's not like Sherlock Holmes the
End detective story or a murder mystery where there are
red herrings and we're supposed to think it's one person,
and we we know the whole time it's not Hugh Jackman.
But Jillenhall also seems to know that it's not him,
but he still has to follow him, and by following him,
he ends up learning the truth of who the character is.
He's like you said, he's also Hugh Jackman's character is
also right, because this sort of is where I think
the movie represents different layers of how complex humanity is.
Because the main the reaction I think that most people
would have right away when their kid goes missing is
exactly what Hugh Jackman does. He goes insane. And that's
one thing I think that show. It's sort of lacking
that we don't see that in news stories. A lot
of times. We don't see people a lot of times.
You know, you get the you get the dad of
the person, and they come up and they're all calm,
and they give a speech and it's been a day.
In this one, Hugh Jackman is insane. He waits for
Paul Dano to get released, and he attacks him physically
in the parking lot. Then he goes and takes the
law into his own hands because he thinks that nobody
else is doing it. But then what what happens with
that is that he ends up in his own prison
and he realizes. I think that throughout the thing that
that there's a scene where he gets on his knees
and he prays, and he's saying the Lord's prayer, but
he can't say forgive us those who trespass against us
because he's he's locked up, because he's got this guy
who's locked up in a waterboard closet. And the again,
the irony is that he himself is going to end
up in almost the same exact pay.
Speaker 3: Each each character, in many ways is in some kind
of a prison.
Speaker 2: That's right, and I think that the only are The
way that the audience is supposed to maneuver through the
maze is obviously through the person of Jake Jillen Hall.
And that's interesting because because jill and Hall, his character
who's Detective Loki, which you know, the names are significant
in this movie. He's a kind of uh, he's not
a he's not a trickster, but he's kind of navigating
between two worlds. And I think that's the deal with
the occult symbolism and the you know, he's got a
his neck tattoo, it's like it's not a black sun,
it's not a sun wheel, but it's like a sun
with a cross in it. And then he's got the
Masonic ring. He's got runes tattooed on his Speaking of runes,
he's got runes tattooed on his on his knuckles. And
I think this shows that he's kind of a liminal character.
He's like a psychopomp. He's he's marked, and he's coded
with occult symbolism. So he's navigating between the Christian world
of Hugh Jackman's family life and the satanic world of
the bad people. But he's our guide through the through
the dark spaces of the film.
Speaker 4: Yeah, excellent point, excellent bringing.
Speaker 3: I think also it's worth mentioning, as I put in
a strikeli with three that and I don't know if
this is the case, but the film also perhaps draws
upon real events and crimes like the Franklin cover up. Yeah, well, yeah,
the first thing reminding of was, you know, Nick Bryant's
Franklin Scandal book, and of course there's a there was
a connection between boys town h and Catholic charities and
so forth that were being used to supply male street
children to politicians and elites. Although this film doesn't directly
implicate political figures, again, it just sort of bear bears
similarities in parallels to some of these real cases. And
I even mentioned the McMartin preschool case, which also I
think could be perhaps an influence on the story, all
of which is real, all which is very sused, especially
when the FBI declassified the Martin case stuff, and a
lot of what Ted Gunnerson had said was actually vindicated.
That there were tunnels, which the media and everybody made
fun of, so that was all crazy, satanic panic stuff.
Speaker 4: But some of these.
Speaker 3: Elements are actually are actually real, So it's important not
to overcorrect and go in some other direction.
Speaker 4: So I did want to ask you that.
Speaker 3: Because I noted that you know Loki has the the Runes,
he has these marks, and of course, obviously Loki from
Nordic mythology, what was the significance that you give to
Gillenhall's character being Loki the only significance.
Speaker 2: I think is that one of the major things that
sticks out to me is there's a scene when we
see him from above and behind and he's got his
hands on his head and he's sort of looking at
pictures that he spread out out in front of him.
So we're supposed to see what he's you know, our
point of view is that we're seeing him, and we're
seeing his point of view, and he when he puts
his hands on his head, we see that his knuckles
are tattooed with ruins and and and things from the
UH and astrological symbols. But the one that really sticks
out is he has an Odell run, which kind of
looks like a like a like a ribbon, you know,
that you would tie on your on your lapel. It's
called the Odell run and it signifies heritage. And I
think that this is also in political circles, can't I
mean careful, but but his uh the rune signifies heritage,
and that that that comes back into play when he's
talking to the priest and he says that he grew
you know, he spent three years in uh can Core
a boy's home or something like that, so he knows
what the priest is up to. He knows how to
navigate the world. He knows he also it's it's funny
because we see him in this dark place, but we
also see that he has something to unlock the way
that these people are. In other words, he when he's
talking to the wife, when he when he first I
think one of the key scenes is that when he
goes into the house to first talk to the wife,
and the wife asked him if he has children. He
doesn't answer the question, but he stands up and he says,
I'm gonna find your daughter, and that makes him some
sort of charged character. He's a he's a marked care
he's almost like a psychopomp because he knows how to
navigate the world, but he also knows how to bring
her out of it somehow, and we believe, we don't realize.
I think till the end of the film that we
believe that he's going to catch her. And this is
so unlike reality. It seems to be truthful but not
factual because the the you know, when when someone goes
missing for twenty four hours, it's like the twenty four
hours is up, then the seven days is up, and
we're almost never gonna find him, but we believe that
he's going to find him, and then he does.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: But it also means that Jake Jillanall I think is
one of the even though he's sort of mediating between
these two layers of consciousness or spiritual realms, he also
is a character that I think we watched the film
and we he's He's like the most truthful character. He's pure.
He never sees he eats one time at the beginning
of the film. We never see him sleep. He tells
the boss, you know, you could have told me that
you could have told me they were gonna be there,
I would have stayed up all night. At the end
of the film, he's still the case is closed and
he's still up in the freezing in the cold. Afterwards,
he's in the car. He's got blood on his face,
covering one eye. He's you feel like he's blind. But
he's still going to get the girl to the hospital.
And he seems to be the only character which is
different from Hugh Jackman, because Hugh Jackman's character becomes reckless
and starts to break his own code. You can feel
with Hugh Jackman that he knows that what he's doing
is wrong, and that he ends up in an unchristian
place and that he's forgotten that the Lord says vengeance's
mine because he he wants to do anything to save
his daughter, but he crosses the line at some point.
And the weird thing about that is that he's actually
right in a way, because the Alice Jones character, it
is funny every time his name comes up in the thing.
And I don't know if they knew. I don't know
if they knew that because this is like twenty thirteen,
so I don't know, but it seems like they would.
It would be obvious that they would know what they
were doing. But when he attacks Paul Dana's character in
the parking lot, he's he tells him, you know, he
was there with the girls. Later on he's singing the
Batman song. He finally ends up telling him secrets from
his waterboarding closet, and he knows where they are, but
it took him that far to get to to get
something out of him, And then you're like, well, this
guy's also locked in some sort of person if he's
a Johnny Gosh character, which we find out he was
taken from his home when he was little. He gets
reunited with his mother at the end, but he's also
completely fractured in dissociated. He doesn't even seem to know
where he is, but he also holds He also holds
he's not just a victim in the movie Great. He
is a grown man and he does make decisions in
the film, even though it seems like he's completely out
of his mind. So he may not face some sort
of criminal justice, but he seems to face a divine
justice in the film, which seems to work through Hugh Jackman.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we noticed that the Dano character. When Jackman
eventually walls him up in that abandoned place and makes
just a tiny hole and he's able to use the
shower and turn the water up and all that, it's
almost as if Dano returning to the type of underground
darkness abyss place which he had originally been in, as
all the kids that were taken were put into this
labyrinth scenario. This triggers him to kind of eventually maybe
come back to his actual core personality where he remembers
the whole thing, and at one point he actually gives
the information to Hugh Jackman about you know what's actually
going on. I'm not saying it was good or right.
I'm just saying that this seems to be what's going
on is that he kind of returns to that place
of the cave or the labyrinth or the abyss or
what the underworld, which is where we find out ultimately
the kids end up being put in this underground place
to especially my control them or trauma based my control them,
to make them into these sort of controlled operatives of
these two evil hippies exippies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's also a real there's a moral ambiguity
that occurs when they take off the hood and they
see what they've done to this character. I mean they
really you know, you understand what is what Hugh Jackline's
character is doing, but they've also crossed the line into
something that seems to be working this they're actually working
the very thing that the Satanic Lady intended, which is
she says at.
Speaker 3: The end of the key to act that way and
to realize, just in the rage, to realize there's not
a God.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the the the key line for the folks
at home is when we find out why all this occurred,
and it's at the end of the movie, when Melissa Leo,
the Satanic lady, says that their war is a war
against God, and she says that their most this is
real Miltonian satanic level stuff. She says that their purpose
was to break people's faith, so it's specifically aimed at
people like Hugh Jackman, and and she actually succeeds. For
most of the film, she doesn't fully succeed, but in
fact she succeeds to the point where she seems to
break him, but he's but in the midst of prayer,
and then later on he subverts his faith to return
to her house as a carpenter by the way to say, oh,
I'm here to do an act penance and charity, but
it's simply to find his daughter. So there's a there's
like a real there are layers of nuance and ambiguity
with with what's happening. I think one of the other
key scenes is when Terrence Howard's wife they bring her
to see what's happened. She sees this man they've made
into a hell bound mutant. I mean, he's just totally broken,
and her response is like keep going. Yeah, she she's
horrified at first, but she says basically keep going. She
she kind of I mean Terrence Howard has been helping
Hugh Jackman with the thing, but she provides an impetus
to keep going and keep doing what they're doing, which
is which is another layer. I think in the movie
that is unforeseen and totally crazy. We never see that
in movies. In fact, it goes so far that that
Hugh Jackman ends up leaving the hospital running away. There's
all sorts of things. There's the alcoholism right that that.
There's the house. There's this father had committed suicide. There's
there's the the relationship with his son. He ends up
turning on his son in a way. He tells his son,
you're gonna be the man of the house, but then
he turns on him. And you notice that when that happens,
when he turns out of the house, he knocks over
the girl's dollhouse as if their whole house has been
UH toppled toppled over. There's the violation of the house
where the guy sneaks into the houses UH. In this
act of UH, he's trying to recreate the events that
have happened to him. There are the snakes and the serpents,
that crawl over everybody. There's the relationship with Jake Jalen
Hall between his boss where you know, this is a
unique movie again because we always have the boss who's like,
you know, you're you're five days from retirement, or who's like, uh,
you know, you can't keep doing this, you're breaking theles,
and this one he tells his boss, fuck you, I'm
gonna you know, you should have done this, and I'm
gonna keep doing what I'm doing. In the boss was like, okay,
I trust you, keep going with it. So, uh yeah,
it's really fantastic. I mean, it's so long. It doesn't
seem like it would be so long like that. How
how are they going to catch these these kids and
they the fact that one of them runs away and
get saved by the way at the end of the movie,
which mirrors the which mirrors the Desmalcian character who had
run away and who is now recreating his life in
this in this cult is another thing that we just
don't see in films.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think also it's worth mentioning labyrinths and labyrinth y symbology.
In the ancient Egyptian world, the labyrinth was an image
of the Underworld. The film has a lot of layers
like that as well, as you mentioned, with different labyrinths,
and as you get to one point of the labyrinth,
you think you figured it out, and there's actually another layer,
another level of you know, this concentric circles getting to
the center of the labyrinth. Greek mythology, you know, the subconscious,
the unconscious, the.
Speaker 4: Darkn man of the id.
Speaker 3: The Middle Ages labyrinth symbology dealt with the idea that
this whole life was a maze that we're going through
to get to the aft life. And so the maze
is a lot of neoplatonic images and symbols, taking us
back to the one to utilize some of the neoplatonic
philosophy of medieval maze theology, and then we get to
more modern and sort of esoteric, hermatic, occultic, or even
satanic uses of it, which here could apply, as we've
said already, to various characters being imprisoned. They themselves are
prisoners within this maze, and we are also on the journey,
as you said with Jillen Hall, just to solve it,
and the overall goal that this is, I think the
big twist that nobody expected was these elderly hippies who
had undergone I think they lost their son or something,
but at one point they seem to have been sort
of Jesus freak people, almost like maybe they were Jesus.
You know, the Jesus Revolution in the nineteen sixties, the
Jesus People of California, who many of these hippies had
converted through evangelical movements, is actually the origin of the
Calvary Chapel denomination, the vineyard movements. They all come out
of the nineteen sixties and seventies Jesus People's stuff, and
so we get the impression that maybe even these people
were of that ilk and then they decided they turned
a vendetta against God after that they had had something
bad happened to their child and set them on this
course to wake up everyone else that there's no God,
which again really kind of only suggests Satanism to me,
because if you're an atheist and you've come to the
conclusion there's no God and nothing matters, who cares about
a quest? Why do you care about a quest? You know,
to convince everyone else. You're not going to convince everyone else, right, So,
a very serious, committed atheist would just assume that everybody's
everybody's everyone's dumb, and they're going to believe their delusions.
There's no point or purpose really in exercising this vendetta
unless there's something that you think you're getting out of it.
But here they're not getting famous. They're not doing anything
other than causing very heinous traumatic actions to happen, as quote,
a war against God, which again suggests more of a
satanic approach.
Speaker 4: And even though the film.
Speaker 3: Doesn't explicitly mention the satanic, they do when they when
they go to what was the guy's name that the
guys uh that has the this recreating his whole background Bob. Yeah.
When they go to his his sort of hovel that
he's living in, Uh, they they find books and texts
that actually are shown on screen that discuss you know,
like I forget the exact term, I put it.
Speaker 2: In the in My Visible Man, The Invisible Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's I think there's something also that's shown
that mentions like mind control or trauma or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The detective has read the book Jake Killenhall, and
he says it involves mind control and trauma.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And again you know, we think that this is going
in one direction and it just like amazed, Oh, we
actually get turned around in the other direction. And that
was a good foil, right, because we were thinking, oh,
this is the guy, you know, he's the weird creeper,
but we're taken out of that into other directions. I
think it's I think it's interesting that it mentions in
the context of the mind control and all that, the
cocktail of I forget what it was like LSD and academy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they actually talk about the.
Speaker 3: Cocktail that's used, which actually, again, when you talk about
LSD and that kind of stuff, you're talking about CIA
based mind control, you're talking about things like the Finders. Again,
this might also bear a lot of similarities to the Finder's.
Speaker 4: Case as well, if you're from ELI.
Speaker 2: With that. The the black goo drink that they make
them drink reminded me of the scene where Nick Cage
ends up with the LSD maker and Mandy. It was
like the same exact you know, hyper LSD drink, right,
And and I see the movie as I didn't see
it as as atheistic so much as theistic satanism.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't mention it in the movie, but it
has all the hallmarks of of I mean, it's really
it's it's Miltonian, it's Dante and uh one, you know,
it's I'm stealing this. But the difference between but C. S.
Lewis says that the difference between Dante's Inferno and T. S.
Elliott's Wasteland is that the wasteland is where you trudge
through the wasteland, but it's truly a wasteland. It's a wasteland.
Getting through it, it becomes ugly, whereas going down the
Nine Circles, crossing the Abyss into the Ninth Circle in
Dante is beauty. It's it's hellish, but there's a kind
of a terrible beauty to it. And two of the
characters that he comes across in the Inferno are Minos
and the Minotaur. And it's worth mentioning that the minotaur
is at the center of the maze and his fed children,
so he doesn't kill Minos. And this this bring this
brings to mind the Shining for me, because Jack is
lost in the maze at the end of the Shining
and he is trying to you know, DNA. He's trying
to trap Danny in the maze. He becomes a beast character.
And the interesting thing about this movie is that the
beasts are all hidden, and it has all the hallmarks
of Book one of Paradise Lost, because Satan says at
the beginning of the book that you know, the reason
the serpent makes its way into Creation is because Satan
hears about this thing called creation above them after the
war and heaven, and so he makes his way up
as the serpent to try and invert, subvert and pervert
God's creation any way they can. They're gonna heap sin
upon them forever by doing this. And the person who
is his confidant is beels Above. And in the scene
where he goes into Bob's house and it's covered in
mazes everywhere, he uncovers these snakes, black snakes all over
the house, and he finds a beels Above pigs head
in the sink. So there are flies, the Lord of
the flies. There are flies everywhere. And like you said,
you know, it's sort of a red herring in the
sense that we think that he has the children's clothes
and accoutrama, and instead it ends up that that's what
he was doing breaking into the house so he can
recreate this. Also, they dig up the yard and they
find mannequins with their faces caved in real satanic shit,
which is obviously supposed to mimic what he saw in
real life when they were in this basement of this house.
The other thing is that, unlike a lot of other
movies where we have this sort of satanic ambiance atmosphere,
like eyes Wide shut or something, where there's like a
sheen to it, and we have these elites and they're
all rich, this is full of working class people in
rural Pennsylvania. It's all rainy, it's dark, it's gritty the
whole time. And these are like normal, normal, steaming people.
So the war, the the satanic war that they're waging
on these normal people, seems to be magnified in that sense.
I think they don't they're not even around to see
what the harm that they've caused with these people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is a grim's fairy tale kind
of element going on with actually with both films weapons
and with this because you have this friendly, kindly seeming
grandmother character who's actually the old witch that you know
in the story, like she's throwing the little kids in
the oven. We'll get a similar type of approach to
this sort of middle class spiritual warfare that's going on
in Middle America in Weapons. And like you said, in
both films, we don't have you know, high power billionaires
that Tom Coomb is encountering in states with the Mask.
We have working class people, grandmas. And so that's another
element which I think makes it maybe even creepier in
both films is because we have the presence and power
of a kind of witchcraft you could say, at the local, Midwest,
small town level, not at you know, Bill Harford's upstate
New York invitation only elite party.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Instead of back mask Joscelyn Pook backwards orthodox chanting
in a you know, insane Crowley and sex ceremony, we
get Jesus songs in a Winnebago from a mind altered,
mind shattered Johnny Gosh character each Alex John's, which is crazy.
The one one of the differences between these two films
is that I don't think it's necessarily a strength for
movies to go for realism. It's not it's not realism
or facts that sort of convey or you know, truth
or make for a more truthful movie experience. But I
think the there is something about the logistics of human life.
And one thing I like about Prisoners is that it
happens on Thanksgiving Day, we see Christmas lights come out.
It all is linear. It takes place in a we
have day to day suffering. When we see the woman
in bed, you know, all knocked out on xanax or whatever,
we know that she's been in bed the whole time,
like she hasn't gotten up, which she finally gets up
it's been three days or whatever. In Weapons, I think
what's weird is that when the children disappear and we
start to see again, we see another carpenter sort of figure.
We see Josh Brolin as this as a contractor. We
see him go to this broken house again. The house.
The house in films, in literature always serves as an
exterior model of the character's inner psyche and how together
they are. But it's like there's a scene where he's
sitting there and his wife comes in. He know's asleep
in his kids bed, the kid's gone, he's pining for kid.
His wife comes in and goes, I'm going to I'm
going to work, and he's like okay, and he gets
up and he goes to work. And it makes you wonder.
It's like, well, you still have to live your normal life.
You still have to keep living. You probably, you know,
you can only be away from work for so long.
You you gotta still pay the bills. But what does
it look like when you do that? And it seems
that Josh Brolin does start playing detective like the other
characters do, but there seems to be something lost, almost
as if the characters are cold. They don't have the
kind of burning fire to find the truth that they
do in Prisoners. But maybe that speaks to the war
that the witch is making on people, and and you know,
or the way modern life, for contemporary life is cold.
I'm not sure, but that one bothered me. That bothered
me in the movie. It bothered me that the you know,
of course, the teacher lady goes straight to the liquor
store and she's buying liquor and then she goes in
the house. And but it bothered me, like, like how
there's a knock on her door and she's like, who's
knocking at the door. She walks outside, and she walks
through the door and walks all the way to the
street without looking to the left and right, like somebody
could come into the house. Those sorts of logistical things
in movies really bother me. We don't have that in Prisoners,
but we do have it in Weapons. But I thought Weapons,
you know, I thought Weapons was a much darker and
away movie because both movies involve children. It always bothers
me in movies when you have characters who are playing children,
and they are children, so you have to cast children
to play the children. But the only thing that the
children go through the actors and Prisoners is like the
little girl comes in on the wheelchair at the end,
and she kind of says by and leaves, and that's
we don't really see them much. The rest is about
how people deal with the fact they're gone. But in Weapons,
we continuously see the children. I mean, you have children
locked in this basement, You have children chasing the witch
at the end, and then they use the children to
tear the witch apart at the end of the film.
I found that incredibly disconcerted.
Speaker 3: Well, uh yeah, let's move on then to Weapons, because
I think that's the essence of Prisoners. Appreciate your your
take on that, and I also appreciate when people disagree
and we have differences of takes on films before we
get to weapons. I would say that really, in the
last couple of years, I've not actually seen a whole
lot of films that I thought were that great. Of
course BLA and I did. We did The Surfer with
Nick Cage, which was good, it was enjoyable. Did we
do another film on that stream? I can't remember, impile,
that's right. I didn't care for the second one. I
did like Mission Impossible part of one of two. But
I did like the the movie Long Legs. I thought
Long Legs was really good horror movie. I thought Heretic
with Hugh Jackman was good. I don't know if you
saw that.
Speaker 4: I covered that one too, I did you, Okay, I
can't remember. And then there was one of the movies.
Speaker 2: There're so far a few between, like we got to
cover the movie right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, there's not a whole lot. That's
why I wanted to kind of just kind of look out.
I actually people probably didn't like this.
Speaker 4: I thought, uh.
Speaker 3: Until Dawn was pretty good, and I liked speaking of
Julia Garner, I don't know if you saw Apartment seven A,
which was supposed to be the prequel to.
Speaker 4: Rosemary's Baby. I did like those.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to touch on a few kind of
bright spots that I also liked Smile and Smile too.
I thought both were pretty good horror movies that kind
of show aspects of you know, MK ultra pop star
mind control of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There was also Last Night in Soho.
Speaker 4: I did like that. That was good. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought Heretic was well done because it covered Mormonism,
which in a different way. It also had the Labyrinth
in it, and it was a much more philosophical movie
than movies usually have time for. So I thought that
was good. I thought Apartment seven A was pretty good.
I covered the Rosemary's Baby book by Ira Leven along
with Rosemary's Baby the film and then the sequel to
sort of contrast them, and I think that I thought
Long Legs was I thought Long Legs Was was crazy
because it has the whole doll doll baby aspect and
and the one thing that bothers me about that about
that movie is they always shortcut movies where they have
the half psychic FBI agent and it's her first day
on the job and you give her the most difficult
It's like in Silence of the Lambs, Silence of the.
Speaker 3: Leg I was saying, that's on purpose, because that's Silence
of the lambstock sofya.
Speaker 2: Well, it's Silence of the Lambs is you know, considered
a great film and you know, one best picture in
nineteen ninety two or three, and you know, and I
covered Red Drag in the book. I covered uh Manhunter
by Michael Mann And but it's like Clarice, it's her
first day on the job and they give her Hannibal
Lecter as the guy she's supposed to be do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I said that when I did analysis, that was
making fun of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's pretty crazy. And actually last week on
boiler Room hasher and then pulled up a video of
these guys, this community of people called maskers who it
was basically long Legs. It was a guy who was
long Legs in real life and goes to a community
of long leggers to meet up in Vegas and they
wear doll plastic seen doll masks on their face and
they I mean it was it was the same exact thing.
So It's crazy how that sort of predictive and you know,
ends up the most freakish thing ends up being reality.
I think that the two, you know, I thought Midsommar
was was gross, but I thought that the two the
two best horror. You know, I didn't like horror movies
when I was growing up, and now I think we've
found ourselves in a place where horror movies continuously end
up being the most revelatory films, that they're the best done.
Speaker 3: Well, we live in a horrific age, that's why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I thought that Hereditary and The Witch were
sort of dual pieces that were very very well done films.
They're incredibly dark. But the difference with The Witch and
a lot of these other films is that in The Witch,
when you end up with the literal Witch's Sabbath at
the Black Sabbath at the end of the film, there's
this exultation that occurs from the Witch, like she's finally
found the place, and she literally hovers into the air
like a Goya painting, But we sort of know that
she's gonna come to that place and we're horrified by it,
versus other movies where they do sort of the same thing,
but we're supposed to have some sort of joy or
exultation with the character instead of feeling horrified by it.
I thought those were too really well done movies. Also,
the thing about those movies is that they both end
up with a climax where you don't imagine that they're
actually going to go to the place where they go,
and they do so. At the end of Hereditary when
they they conjure pam on this prince of Hell and
he is, you know, he's he's taken over this kid's
body and they're doing this magic ritual. You don't when
you're watching the movie the first time. I don't think
you imagine that they're actually going to succeed and go
into this place that they do. So I think that
it's a particularly I don't know, it's it's I think
that that's a strange place to be in movies, and
it's it's it's dark, but it's there's some sort of
revelatory I think data that we get from from that
kind of film. And Weapons also did that. I mean
it really, it really did go to that place. I
wasn't sure how they were going to get to the
way because when I went into the I didn't know
anything about it, and I watched. We watched the first
three minutes of the film, and I went, this is
a witch.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I did the same thing to Jamie. I was like,
it's gonna be witchcraft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's either gonna be mk Ultro the Most
Dangerous Game, it's gonna be gnostic, or there's gonna be
a witch, and in this one it was. It had
elements of mk ultran And I thought when the children
were running in there, sort of that Vietnam the famous
Vietnam photo where the little girls running away from the napalm,
I thought, Okay, this is gonna have something. The body
language is gonna have something to do with m k
Ultra or Phoenix a modern Phoenix program or something, or
it's gonna be a witch and this looks like a witch,
and it was.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Before we get into some of the movie nuggets, I
do want to talk a little bit about uh both
because we mentioned long legs, and it seems like for
the new reigning Horror Queen, there's a competition between Micah
Munroe and Julia Garner, both of whom seemed to really
be kind of the queens of horror interestingly, and of
course with Michael and Roe, she really kicked it off.
I mean she's in other like student films and whatnot,
but it follows which I thought was a really good
horror film, and then she's kind of followed up with
a consistent, like consistent horror movies, right, I mean the
Guest horror movie, Watcher horror movie, Long Legs horror movie,
significant other horror movie. And I don't know if you've
ever ever saw God as a Bullet, but once again,
this one is explicitly satanic cults and human trafficking.
Speaker 4: Did you see God as a Bullet?
Speaker 2: No? I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 3: I actually recommend everybody should watch guys. It's it's hard
to watch, but it's like revelatory.
Speaker 2: Do you think, why do you think they have these
two these two specific actresses who've sort of gotten to
fill this role. I mean, this is different from the
blonde bombshell of Psycho and that role. It's different from
the kind of final girl the screen queen. I think
there's and it's not just like a millennial or gen
X sort of thing that people can see these characters
in them. I think with with what's her name Michaeh
Michael Monroe. I think I think her thing is that
there's a lot to be said. It's kind of getting
into the minutia about actors in films, but there's a
lot to be said about the the palette of a
person's face, and she sort of has a blank canvas
of a face that you sort of paint horror onto,
you know, the reactions are slightly reserved. Julia Garner is
a much more sort of wholesome looking person, so it
seems to be that her thing is it's much more
horrifying when she is subjected to what the thing that
she's subjected to. But they also are representative of most
of America.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, you know, in
a lot of pictures, you know, Michael Monroe either looks
like Marilyn Monroe or she looks like, you know, the
town beauty queen. So she has this element of girl
next door, but also in a way very attractive and unique,
even if even though she had but I think both
of them have that sort of they kind of look
like they would be girl next door, but they also
have a little unique appearance that makes them kind of
stand out and both of them sort of being in
a lot of the films at least blonde. I think
there is that, like harkening back to the archetype of
like you said, in Hitchcock, you have usually the blonde
subject of old horror going down, and there also might
be interesting you know, who knows, there might be esoteric
or occult stuff going on. I mean, if you go
back to one of the earliest films that Julie Garners
is in, she's in that class. That's also a pretty
good cult movie. Do you remember, Martha Marcy May Marlene.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a yeah exactly, John Hawks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also I think, uh it ironically says something
refreshing about masculinity and femininity. Uh, in the world where
these these two characters, you know, these two actors are feminine.
You know, they're they're girls, and it should be horrifying
in a horror movie for the audience to see something
bad to happen to feminine characters, versus what we're supposed
to think now, which is that it's horrifying to have
a person lose their identity. It's actually it's actually that
it's non it's not human. And so watching these two
characters go through. What they go through I think is
supposed to be anathema to a normal person's sort of
you know, your year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good that's a good point, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3: If you one last thing, I want't to mention it.
Didn't want to mention it too. I think we'd mentioned
this between you and I. But the uh, the movie
The Guest.
Speaker 4: Did you see that? That has Mike Monroe and.
Speaker 3: Matthew Crawley from Downton Abbey Dan Stevens.
Speaker 4: Have you seen The Guest?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm trying to remember which one of it.
Speaker 3: And that is a MK Ultra super soldier explicit you know,
creation of a Phoenix program kind of assassin where he
kind of goes hey wire in short circuits.
Speaker 4: But yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: When I think of Dan Stevens, I think of that
literal mk Ultra movie he's in Cuckoo.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I didn't like Cuckoo.
Speaker 3: I was hyped for it and it ended up being
this really kind of lame mass of feminist thing, so
I didn't care for it.
Speaker 2: He's just uh, he's like, I don't know, he's uh,
Jose Swiss, Jose Delgado.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go, exactly, Okay, so uh, I apologize,
I'm getting this way off track here with the all
the different tie in. So Weapons is just to kind
of set the stage here, oddly enough, directed by Zach
Krieger from Whitest Kids, you Know, and I was always
a fan of that, one of the one of the
best sketch comedies the last several decades, probably next to
other greats like A Million Dollar Extreme, that kind of stuff,
Flight of the Concords. In my view, these are, you know,
great sketch shows and comedies, but I think for most people,
probably Whitest Kuld you know, it's probably up there in
like the top, you know, best sketch shows of all time.
And he did I didn't even realize this until looking
up for this film, but he had done Barbarians, which
excuse me, Barbarian of twenty twenty two, which was a
fun kind of ghetto horror based around an airbnb. That
was a fun one that Jamie and I enjoyed. But
you can see, of course, in parallels between Barbarian and Weapons.
And the reason I'm pointing out why he matters is
because I mean, he wrote it, and I think he
tends to kind of bring horror or his comedy into
the horror. So I think that what we're looking at
is a kind of a Grim's fairy tale again, because
we have the witch and you know, the children being
taken by the witch, et cetera.
Speaker 4: And it's also in.
Speaker 3: What I didn't expect was that it was kind of funny.
So again, because he's a horror or a comedy guy,
he's bringing that to the horror. So I saw it
as a satiric, a dark satirical Grim's fairy tale, but
also with a lot of truth in it. Because just
this is my overview before we get into the actual
sequences of the film. Basically nobody is able to figure
out what's going on because no one is considering witchcraft
every other possible thing. People were saying, oh, it's it's
like it's likening everything to the school shooting phenomena of
Columbine and this and that. I don't think I had
anything to do with that, I think, and I don't
know Krieger's own personal spiritual approaches or anything like that.
I do know that before Trevor Moore died, why just kid,
you know, was getting very conspiratorial in a lot of
their sketches. You know, they were referencing pretty much all
the crazy conspiracy stuff that you could think of, and
a lot of people noticed that one of their conspiracy
sketches had gone megaviral before Trevor Moore died.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that anything.
Speaker 3: I don't know or have any evidence of anything nefarious,
but it is interesting that they went in that direction.
And then you know, Trevor passes away, and then Kreeger
makes two films, the first of which is really just
ghetto horror, I guess you could say, and then this
one is a little.
Speaker 4: More It is dark, but again, like.
Speaker 3: My defense of it is, and I don't people free
to disagree. My defense of it is that with any
fairy tale you have pretty gruesome elements, and the purpose
of the gruesome elements is a kind of a warning. Again,
I don't know if Kreeger actually had this as his motive.
Speaker 4: This was my reading of the film.
Speaker 3: I did like the different misdirections that we had.
Speaker 4: Throughout the film.
Speaker 3: I like the fact that it was told in a
non linear way, kind of like pulp fiction or that
movie eleven fourteen with Patrick Swayze. That made it fun
to kind of piece it together the different perspectives of
the characters storyline of the same event. As I said,
a couple of them were actually pretty funny. The druggy
guy was a pretty funny character. Even Paul, the cheating
police officer, his version of the story is actually pretty comedic.
Speaker 4: So I think a lot.
Speaker 3: Of people overlooked that it was supposed to be funny.
I thought it was funny. I didn't like the couple
extremely gruesome scenes I had to turn away. I understand
people's critique to that, Oh, they had to use witchcraft
to defeat the witchcraft. But again, I think there's a
lesson here that it's not about getting people to use witchcraft.
I think the point of the film is that, like humans,
are the weapons that were actually concerned with. At one point,
Josh Brolin has a dream where he sees an AK
forty seven or whatever floating above a house, and a
dream that's directing him to where the weapons are. And
you know, in light of the things that have happened
in the last week or two weeks, the wild events,
Charlie Kirk and other things, this kind of a movie
like Weapons is very.
Speaker 2: Point.
Speaker 3: Yet, I guess because the weapons aren't what the left says.
It's not guns, it's not you know this, it's actually
people who are weaponized. And particularly with a tr and
Z community, I believe there's a spiritual problem and a
spiritual weaponizing effect that's going on. This is a lot
of the research that BX has done in regard to
certain cults, online groups, sex, satanic groups.
Speaker 4: Seven six', four et.
Speaker 3: Cetera the accelerationists have this approach of weaponizing, people and
that's the real weapons, here not, guns and not this and.
That SO i didn't read it as a literal invitation to,
witchcraft but as a satirical grim's fairy tale warning us
about the fact that the real delusion going on even
in Small Middle, america small Town Middle, america is not
corrupt politicians or a teacher that's stealing. Students, no it's
spiritual and people are under a.
Speaker 4: Spell SO i love the.
Speaker 3: Aspect that this film is about pretty much everybody being
under a, spell and it's not figured out until Well
Josh brolin actually starts to listen to things like his,
dreams which in the film kind of symbolize listening to
the transcendent or to the spiritual or, spirituality and then they,
realized actually we're up against spiritual, evil you, know As paul,
says And ephesian six, thrones, principalities, powers dominions in high.
Places so that's kind of where the film, goes which
you didn't. EXPECT i, MEAN i did Expect, witchcraft BUT
i didn't expect the film to go in that. Direction
Where as you, said it's a very dark. Ending but
you fight weapons with, weapons AND i don't mean that
you fight witchcraft with, witchcraft but you fight witchcraft with
other spiritual, weapons namely with real.
Speaker 4: Spirituality, yeah excellent.
Speaker 2: ANALYSIS i think that one thing you brought up is
that no one considers witchcraft EVEN i think even when
the teacher has the word which written in what looks
like blood on our. Right, ah that is just it
seems to be a word or something that somebody remembered
from the memory of a of a more normal. Time,
right they paint the person's car with which it's not
really spoken of in any other, places and everyone seems
to kind of be dead in a. Way everyone certainly
controlled by the one thing that the nonlinear.
Speaker 3: Apparacha, well it's It's Josh, brolin the painter down there,
right because he got the he got the bucket.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah it was he was the one who
did it and his whole. Thing there was also a
gamer aspect with the way that the ar was floating
above the. House it was like a coin like he
was on some sort of you, know, uh first person
shooter game to find, perfect perfect point and and and
one THING i, noticed and this was the REASON i
thought it was incredibly dark and they they couldn't have known,
this or it was predictive or whatever was That when
we finally see the, witch she reminded me a lot
of the video of the shooter of the school that
happened two weeks, ago of The catholic. School remember they
made the. Video the guy made the video that was
released at the same time as the shoot.
Speaker 3: SHOOTING i listened To alex playing those, clips BUT i
never saw the actual.
Speaker 4: Video did did he have that?
Speaker 2: Appearance, WELL i wouldn't. RECOMMEND i, Mean i'm sure people
here have already seen the, video BUT i. WOULDN'T i
would not recommend watching the. Videos it's incredibly dark and it's,
UH i don't even like having things like that in my.
Phone it was it was purposefully. Satanic you, Know i'm
not gonna say what he's doing in, it but you,
know weapons that are marked with sigils and marked with
marking weapons with AND ammo with memes seems to be
the the contemporary equivalent of marking sigils on a. Weapon
it seems to be the exact same, thing sort of
magically and meme.
Speaker 3: MAGIC i MEAN ghq has been studying memes as meme.
Speaker 2: Magic so, yeah and and the and the the way
that that person's appearance when we saw when we when
if you look up his, appearance it is remarkably similar
to The witch in the. Movie it's like the exact same.
Person to. Me SO i saw something, weirdly, uh sort
of weird spiritual syncro that. Happened in terms of that,
FILM i think, that, yeah all the characters seem to
be controlled by their. Passions we. Have the most likable
character is the drug. Addict he's, likable he seems to be.
HUMAN i, mean he's, funny he's kind of a kind
of a full character in the. Thing but even he
gets controlled by The. Witch and it seems that by
the end of the. Film the, problem one of the
PROBLEMS i had was that there aren't any characters who
are likable enough for me to see the vision of
the film In AND i think that's that's probably, intentional
that we don't like any of the. Characters it's it's
a if The Whites, kids you, know is a has
that famous sketch about The Big, nine then that is
a satirical statement on the darkness of the modern. World
and and that is completely different in a way than
this is because they are unwitting characters playing roles in the.
Game AND i thought of the Black eyed, children like
the kids IN. U. C a. G. E s in
the basement of the, film the whole the sort Of
vietnam aspect of, it the methed out people running around
the city causing, havoc the, principle and The skittles. Relationship
the it sort of has. Everything AND i think that
the the ultra violence in the film also was gruesome and.
BOTHERSOME i think that if there's a symbolic purpose of,
THAT i suppose would be to say that this is
the kind of, stylized stylized ultra violence that really impacts
the audience in the sense that this is the result
of what these things. Are it's not just that people are.
Disappearing it's not just that people are running, wild but
that it results in maximum, violence maximum corruption of the,
body maximum, destruction and it's repugnant to look. At, so you,
know there also doesn't seem to be much redemption in the.
CHARACTER i wanted the drug addic character to have some
sort of redemption even when he's breaking into the house
and stealing the. SILVERWARE i was, like this character is
still lower down on the totem pole than the other characters.
Are the schlub, COP i thought was a perfect counterpoint
To Jake dillenhall's character And. Prisoners you, know one is
like almost pure. Cop one is. Purposeful it seems like
we're with him on the. Journey he's going to get the,
people and the other one is cheating on his wife.
Waking it's also funny in movies like the guy went
out drinking one, night he stayed with this girl and
now he's too hungover to even get the car and
go do. ANYTHING i, MEAN i thought that WAS i
thought that was a little. Much, YEAH i mean, NO
i JUST i think that the characters were and AGAIN
i think that that's probably. Purposeful that the characters are completely.
Controlled and if the movie says anything it's. That if
it says one thing to, me it's that in a
world Without, christianity the. Characters, Ultimately witchcraft is ultimately about
characters finding a. Thing it's a sort of a lens
through which we see that people worship. Themselves they want
to be, empowered so they find. Power they find power
over other, people and they find power over the most helpless,
people which is sort of what happens in the film
UNTIL i guess it turns on.
Speaker 3: Them, Yeah and this is WHERE i would disagree, because
first of, ALL i didn't throughout the. FILM i NEVER
i was annoyed by some of the actions Of Josh
brolin and some of What Julia garner, did BUT i
never thought that they were unlikable or. Unredeemable in, fact
it ends up being them fighting each other is part
of the, spell and the whole thing is only dispelled
and solved when they actually listened to each other and work.
Speaker 4: Together so the only.
Speaker 3: Two good characters overall have to actually team. Up when that,
happens they end up actually Saving Josh rowland's son And
alex the you, know the son of the the one
that uh let me fix the audio levels since somebody's, Complaining,
yeah the the.
Speaker 4: Son of.
Speaker 3: The, child that's that's not under the, witchcraft, right that
the witch's nephew or whatever he.
Speaker 2: Is his Name alex.
Speaker 4: TOO i think somebody the chat said it.
Speaker 2: Was that's that's. Wild it is It's.
Speaker 4: Alex.
Speaker 2: YEAH i think. That you know when they when he
when he finds her in the parking lot of the gas,
station and the meth out crazy eyed, skittles Uh Jijinping,
principles starts running Towards that's one of the things that
always scares me in the, movies when there's someone running
at you like.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 2: Yeah and one thing that WAS i think visceral in
both of these movies is, that, uh that happened in broad.
Daylight so the taking happens at, night but this happened
in broad. Daylight In, prisoners they mentioned how the The
Boomer garcia character had taken the child in broad. Daylight
and it's, always, oh you should see the look on your.
Face it's always this sort of, derision you know, that,
uh seeing seeing a person horrified and they have the
secret and they know what they. Did but When Josh
brolin when the guy's running towards the lady and then
he crawls under the. CAR i was glad that he
finally not like kicked the guy in the head or,
whatever you, know and and saved her and then she
ran into the BECAUSE i kept, thinking this guy is
gonna end up being another soy who does nothing in a,
film which is such a contrast for A Josh brolin.
Character norm McDonald pointed out That Josh brolin when you
see the Movie Hail, caesar That Josh brolin was the
archetype for the. News you, know he had a chisel.
Jaw you, know he seems to be the strong, characters
like knocking people, around And George clooney was the soy
character of the. Movie he gets like thrown into a.
Corner SO i was glad that he didn't end up being.
That but you're, right they do work together in the.
FILM i JUST i WAS i was really disturbed by
the way that that That alex the kid was treated
in the. Movie that he's forced to sit there and
watches the forks in the face and all that, stuff
and he's got to go to school and you, know
he's he has to live his normal. Life, well he's
got this witch at. Him that's probably entirely truthful.
Speaker 3: Though so, well, yeah and again you know what's what
are some of the effects of the? Spell, well the
people can't. Speak they become complete sort of mind controlled.
Zombies they rush at you to kill or to bite
or to eat, you you know. EXACTLY i, mean are
they zombies or just like maniacally possessed. Individuals but they
also can't. Speak and it's explained at the end of
the film that after they had broken the spell that
a couple of years, later some of the kids even
begin to speak. Again so they were healing after this traumatic.
Event and the film might not have been intinduing to
talk about, this but it did make me think about
how the younger you go with kids the internet and
living on the, internet being raised on the internet is
really and not reading is impairing people's communicative and thinking
and critical thinking. Abilities and so if we think about
this as a story about how we're actually in a
spiritual warfare against evil, entities then you, know to young
children like The alex, characters who are essentially innocent that
are exposed to and see all this, trauma it's kind
of the way in the world that young kids are
seeing right, now, right so they're seeing an insane of traumatic.
World H and AS i think the film is trying to,
say even if it doesn't explicit in A christian, way
is that you're really only going to be able to
be evil or spiritual evil with a spiritual.
Speaker 2: Power so, yeah, YEAH i think, that you, Know corunka
obviously did something to, people and it it sort of
did to a twofold. Thing, one it made people who
didn't seem to speak much before speak very, loudly of
very you, KNOW i, mean look at the, riots and
that's WHAT i saw in the, film was that people
running around like that it was Like portland or. Something
and the other is that it made, People it made
younger people who were forced to cover their. Face and you,
know and anyone knows that teenagers who have something terrible
like this happening at home often do not. Speak they
they're just completely silent and blanket. Expressionist and one of
the most alarming things that CAN i think happened to,
children and that it seems to be that kind Of
both things happened in the, movie which was which was
interesting because The witch character is so dynamic and, loud,
like she looks. Loud she looks is a loud looking.
Person AND i think it like most most horror, movies.
Speaker 3: Now those are clown.
Speaker 2: Too, yes, yeah the most horror movies tend to do this,
now where they they show you that there's something to be.
SAID i think this is a, lesson especially for younger,
people that you really have to navigate the world by
trusting your. Gut you. Know it's like that old thing
that like your dad would tell you when you're walking
down the street at night and you see somebody coming
your way and something to unfeel right just across the.
Street women are told that all the, time and we
see that's increasingly gone away because we're supposed to trust
people no matter, what because if we see that they
don't look a certain, way then then we don't trust.
Ourselves and SO i, mean look at the bus incident
that just, happen you, know that's that's exactly what this
ends up sort of. Being and so when The witch
shows up at the school and she's got her nephew
who is a grown man who's not saying, anything and
the aunt is saying is saying, everything and she's this
loud clown like. Character all of the characters in the
movie kind of they just go with. It they don't
they they have no recourse in terms of their, being
in terms of their, politeness to cross any sort of
social boundary or social. Line but we could we continuously see.
That now those sorts of. Things you have to trust your.
Gut you have to you, know if the person looks
like long, legs you, know you should just what's the
morment just assuming they probably.
Speaker 4: Are that they probably, are, yeah possessed serial.
Speaker 3: Killer NOW i want to mention, too it's interesting that
the witch in the film is also stealing the kids
and putting them in the basement under the spell because
she's able to in some way through her raft sap
their youth and.
Speaker 4: To make herself young.
Speaker 3: Again because she has, cancer she's on the verge of,
death but she's become such a powerful witch that she's
able to, utilize, uh you, know the. Youth and it's
a form of cannibalism right, again which recalls, uh you
Know grim's fairy. Tales, uh what's the one where the
witch is cooking the kids and eating Them gretel And. Hans,
yeah it recalls. THAT i think that's what's going. On
but also in reality, AGAIN i, mean there are, people
whether we're talking about actual satanic, witches cults and, networks
or the overall vampiric nature of our, society feeding on,
uh the the, youth feeding.
Speaker 4: On, prey the predatory.
Speaker 2: Classes go, Ahead, yeah feeding on happiness and, enjoy feeding
On christian spirit.
Speaker 3: Garmin bosia exactly from, look.
Speaker 2: Look it's, horrible but look at The Charlie kirk thing just.
Happened there's this there's a vampirical element to how that all.
Happens AND i think that that the notion of that
it sends people into this sort of blood. Frenzy so
there's also the The Teeter peel aspect of, it which,
is you, know a sort of TRANSHUMANIST i, mean, YEAH
i was. IT i was. IT i met a ninety
one year old lady at church the other day with
the same birthday as me and asked, her you, know
we were just talking and she she's ninety one year.
Old lady said to, me, well they keep talking about
life extension drugs and HOW i can live. Forever BUT
i Think i'm just going to count my blessings to
the end of my. Days AND i was, like, yeah
you don't. Try you don't strike me as the Transhumanist
Peter teeal type. LADY i think IT'S i think you're.
Speaker 3: Okay, NOW i did want to mention before we move
into uh super chats and. Whatnot, guys Remember bla does
have a book Called. Runes let me ask you briefly about.
That told us about, it what inspired? IT i do
have it linked in the show description for The amazon
link there if you're interested in getting his Book.
Speaker 2: Root, yeah, thanks, MAN i appreciate. It this is a
book of. Poetry it's about eighty four. Pages It's megalomania
in The Third, Reich Imperial rome And troubles era In Northern.
Ireland and they are a series of WHAT i call persona.
Poems so one of the THINGS i wrote THAT i
first wrote this WHEN i was in grad school In
belfast twenty years, ago at the tail end of The
troubles and In Northern. Ireland and one of the things
THAT i was reading A Tacitus Suetonius RICHARD. J, evans
and one of the things that struck me is, that for,
instance we all know that when reading history it's almost
impossible to get a pure account of events in history
a truthful account, now and that's because there's almost always a,
disclaimer there's almost almost always a pseudo moralistic disclaimer about
the thing that you're, reading and look at it in
the light of this instead of what they used to,
have which were first person. Accounts so this is a
kind of pseudo first person account of. Events and each
of the poems is many of them are in a person's,
name so they are. PERSONA a lot of them are
in the first, person and they go into all sorts
OF i think situations of especially with megalabani as sort
of the guiding. Word BUT i JUST i see that you,
know the book was number. ONE i was the number
one living poet On Amazon poetry for about two. Days
everybody else ahead of me had been dead for four,
hundred five hundred, years and SO i think that ironically
says something about the state of. Literature you talk about
literature a lot on your share and especially in your
essays on your, website AND i think that it's important
that we look through the lens of sometimes of a
kind of fictional historical fiction or or parables for the
thing in. Parallel so sometimes it's difficult to look at
specific events from what we, read because we can't get
anything truthful, anymore so we look at them in. Parallel
SO i WOULD i hope people will buy. It it's Called,
runs and you, know runs came up. Today they've been
these sorts of things come. Up but they Are runs
are sign posts Of nordic vocabulary where letters are imbued
with the kind of spiritual potency and in a pagan.
Sense and so because the book partly takes place In
germany in the mid twentieth, century those things are kind
of sign POSTS i think for the human spirit and
where we are.
Speaker 3: Now awesome, Minute LIKE i, Said i've got a LinkedIn
and put in the.
Speaker 4: Chat it is in the show. Description my. Chance did
you See?
Speaker 2: Ballerina, no, NO i haven't seen. It we meant to
go see, it but had already. Left we gotta we
gotta go. See that's the job.
Speaker 4: Expect it is not what you expect.
Speaker 3: EITHER i you, Know i've seen the Other John wick,
movies AND i THINK i did a podcast on those
a couple of years, ago AND i mean they're just
kind of action.
Speaker 4: Movies for the most.
Speaker 3: Part there are some odd references and, parallels especially with
a sort of guild of assassins that now we learn
is a little more like a, mafia perhaps a little
more like a kind of cult or. Coven and in
this one they explicitly sort of bring in some of
the tropes and themes and imagery of M k ultra
programmed assassin type, stuff and we find out that, no
it's this, one it's a full on. Cult so there
were and runs and these sorts of things also coming to,
play including, witchcraft WHICH i didn't expect Because Boba yaga
Who's John, wick but also a manifestation of this sort
of feminine divine assassination justice Through Anna. Dharmas so it
goes in some odd, Directions that's What i'm trying to.
Say But runes and witchcraft popped up there THAT i didn't,
expect AND i also wanted to, mention as the super
chat here says From jeff Ten, dollars the point made
about the substitution of memes fort runs is an excellent.
Observation thank, you. Gentlemen, yeah there was some years ago
right around, it even before you, know meme magic was
a hot topic Through Jordan peterson talking about, it particularly
in regard to the usage of the grouper frog meme
to Promote Donald trump via Four chan as a sort
of joke candidate before the twenty sixteen. Election, again they
were studying even AT, ghq which is The british version
of THE, nsa the use of meme magic and how
memes can function in that same kind of way like
any icon or iconographic.
Speaker 4: Representation you might and they might.
Speaker 3: Call it image magic or idle magic back in the,
day And orthodoxy has a similar. Idea of, course we
don't think that they're, magical but that there is a
truth and a power to iconic, imagery iconographic imagery to
convey messages meaning in. Truth and you know the other,
side the evil people do the same. Thing so, memes icons,
imagery image magic so to, speak is another big part
of this with the element Of.
Speaker 2: Runes, yeah the the group in the twentieth, century The
nazis really convey this with their heavy reliance on symbolism
and this was maximally. Effective and one example of course
is the sig. Run you know they use the tote
and cough the death's head on the as the badge
on the hat of skull and. Bones but the sigroom
which is supposed to look like a lightning bolt and
is for a shock troop or. Stormtroopers really sort of you,
know conveys this sense mixed in With Wabelsburg castle and
The Black sun and all of these things where you
have a society of people that USES i, think what's
what's you, know there's a there are a few poems
in the in the. BOOK i should, mention by the
way that when People i'm not trying to change anybody's
idea about, poetry but one thing THAT i think is
important to note is that most people probably will never
own a book of poetry in their, house and SO
i try to you, KNOW i didn't try to make
it this, way but you, know one of the things
that's effective in language is the violence of. Language language
is ultimately on a Monopoetic it has a kind of
the words mimic. Actions and we see that language is so,
important you, know we think and dream in. Words but
in terms of where society becomes In united often has
to do with, language and so that becomes, potent especially
in terms of a militant usage in, diction and that
particular group of the twentieth century which mimics the very
same thing In Imperial rome is again packed in and
loaded with symbolism which is ultimately. Militant and so that
is a kind of proto version of meme magic, now
WHICH i think is going to, be you, know unfortunately
become more more prevalent in terms of what we're up
AGAINST i think in the. World another thing is THAT
i need to See ballerina because the stunts are done
By jackson Spy. Del he did all the stunt designs
for that and For John Wicki's John Wick's Stunt. Double
that was my sister's prom date for high.
Speaker 4: School oh, wow it's. Crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah ARVIA dw.
Speaker 3: Five, dollars il y Slow boy whiteboard two. Dollars check
Out dangerfield's book. Runs got that link To Rachel wilson five.
Dollars everybody should subscribe To bla's channel right. Now he's
one of the underrated streamers on. YouTube i will give
that link if you're watching this, later it'll be tagged
in description after the. Stream jethrow, SAYS jd AND, bla
we need A Larry nickel impression from both of.
Speaker 4: You se was?
Speaker 2: Better, Well hillary was a witch AND i wanted to
tell You Alex hilary is a. Witch she was this
is my normal. Voice she was stuffing babies into the
carcass of a. Pumpkin.
Speaker 4: Exactly that's.
Speaker 3: Good let's see we might have some super chests over.
Speaker 4: Here let's see storm the cat ten. DOLLARS i have
seen a lot of horror, movies.
Speaker 3: But the only piece of media that has really spooked
me Was David bowie's final, Album Black.
Speaker 4: Star that's, funny it is. CREEPY i felt that it was.
Speaker 3: Satanic it kind of felt made me feel messed up
for a.
Speaker 4: Day, Yeah i'm not a big fan of that.
Speaker 2: Album that's a good. POINT i mean THAT i think
he really did wherever he was going in his, career
he definitely went back to a you, know a specific
kind of. Occultism he was A David bowie had been
A crowley and you know the song station To station,
yeah is a kabbala song from From kefer to. Malcof
so that in the interviews that he did with what's
the guy's Named Dick, cavott where he, was you, know
talking about WHAT i was. On you, KNOW i was
into all things WHEN i was In. Hollywood he's the
thin white. Duke SO i agree with. You it's a
pretty it's pretty dark that he went back there on
his final.
Speaker 5: Album David, bowie he's sketching out the kabaalistic tree, mate
glitch your rhythm ten. DOLLARS i always enjoy when you guys.
Collapse thank you appreciate. That uh black orthodox foot shoulder
one dollar a. Dire is it normal For greeks to
get wasted on? PASCA i was offered a drink three.
Am everybody usually parties On, pasco so probably.
Speaker 4: OKAY i do want to mention and ask you to
before we, GO.
Speaker 3: I was reading, something SO i was kind of, preoccupied
BUT i was able to watch here and there as
When jamie was Watching, eddington and she took a lot of.
Notes AND i want to know what your view Of
eddington is because it was really bizarre at least the
things THAT i caught from.
Speaker 4: It what did you?
Speaker 1: Think?
Speaker 2: Well at FIRST i, thought Like Sam hodde, says that
this was another ari ast. Film you know the guy
Born july, fifteenth another one of these. Guys sam, SAYS,
i you know we had both Covered? Novarata did he
do know that Was eggers and ARI ASTRAI i get
confused with BUT i didn't know what to make of.
IT i was kind of worried about going to see
it BECAUSE i thought it was just going to be
another critique of you, know people like us or. Something
it was going to make the guy who is an
anti corunka guy into a crazy. Guy and it did do,
that but it covered kind of a full gamut of the.
Situation at the, time it seemed to be a kind
of anti or meta or dark fairy tale for the.
Time and one thing that it ended up doing Was
They're the one key scene in the film was when
we all of a sudden get a point of view
of a private jet with a group OF Mk delta
operators or something that moves into the. Town AND i
think my take is that the entire thing is about
the people who are not in the, movie and that
is the people that are running the data. Center so
the data center is run by the tech overlords who
push a kind of chaos through this town as a test,
case and it brings out all the various elements of conspiracy,
world including the kind of lost single boomer wine mom
with the daughter who gets lost to A Charlie manson
cult guy and who ends.
Speaker 3: UP q tards and then they get in with like
this this new age kind of, uh you, KNOW q
shaman type of.
Speaker 2: Bro, yeah and she ends up as the what's the
What's Trump's White house? Staff the chief of staff lady's.
Name she ends up as that kind of. Lady she
ends up as an ARCH gop conservative influencer type who
is also living with the the carcass Of Joaquin phoenix
and cucking. HIM i guess with the young yoga type
guy just taking over the. Town AND i think the
events are so surreal towards the end of the movie
when the bloodbath happens that it's supposed to indicate that
you can't really trust what you're, seeing even in real.
Life so most of the movie is lived through. Phones
but then the phones. Start it's kind of like that
the thing about how you, know we live in a
triple post modern world where we've gone through The war
on the, self but no matter, what you still don't
use phones in your. Dreams and this movie kind of
crossed over that. Path it was, like not only are
they in our, dreams there the phones have become real
life and we could throw the phone away because now
what we see in real life ends up like we're
looking through a. Phone SO i thought it was a
kind of surreal anti fairy tale for a technocratic world
as seen in this like dusty this dusty.
Speaker 3: Testing it's like A, western you. Know and then it's
really about the placement of that data center.
Speaker 2: There it. IS i think the whole thing is about,
that and it's it's crazy that the movie begins with
this schizophrenic wanderer who kind of comes into town with
evil on him or, something and the whole town goes.
Great he brings the THE V i R u s with,
him and then all of a, sudden the town goes.
Crazy the world's going crazy on the. Outside it ends
up with this golden shining quantum facility in the, desert
like some new temple ball, temple or like The.
Speaker 3: Chaos this emerged out of the ashes The phoenix out
of the ashes of The.
Speaker 4: Chaos.
Speaker 2: YEAH i thought it was surprisingly well. DONE i didn't
expect it to do, that not that it was not
that it was on anybody's side or. ANYTHING i just
thought it was a pretty, truthful uh sort of, metaphysical you,
know story about the events that have unfolded and where
we are.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah this is a like you, said slow, boy,
THERE i don't Think i've ever dreamed about my phone.
EITHER i dream every, night every as soon AS i
go to, sleep immediately. Dream i've never had a dream
about a phone or my.
Speaker 4: Phone that's.
Speaker 2: Weird, yeah that's that's SOMETHING i think that people should
once you notice, THAT i think it's something to keep in.
Mind that's a THAT'S i think that's. Hopeful the moment
that we go into that is the moment where the
body mods are truly. Coming so.
Speaker 3: Bamba dill ten. Dollars i'm A. Baptist i'm interested in.
Orthodocously can't wrap my head around the perpetual virginity To,
MARY i don't want to lie to join the.
Speaker 4: Church have any?
Speaker 3: Advice, yeah you want to read the essay THAT i
put into the. Link it Is jerome's essay on the perpetual.
Virginity Saint jerome's essay is a. Classic, now, guys remind
you head on over To bla's channel. SUBSCRIBE i always
love catching up with him and doing these movie. Reviews
really good. Stuff tonight we'll pick some new films when
we can find some good ones to do in the near.
Future anything else other than your. Book we mentioned what
lit or films are you covering in the near?
Speaker 2: Future near, Future i'm Gonna i've covered half Of. Shakespeare
i've covered half of The Jack Bean, eira SO i
need to get back to covering some More. Shakespeare i'm.
Covering i'm Reading Northrop Fries Fearful symmetry right now On William,
blake which is a heavily esoteric, work And i'm seeing
a lot of literature through kind of through that lens
in terms of not my personal, lens but how he
describes it in the. Book probably gonna Do Paul Thomas
anderson's new movie coming out This, friday the one With Leo, oh,
yes a revolutionary type. Movie there's also A daniel Day lewis.
Movie he went to my drama, school So i'll be
seeing his, movie which is a movie about the troubles
In Northern ireland and getting married soon and Then i'll
be back In october To.
Speaker 3: Yeah thanks, man awesome.
Speaker 2: Ime my book by runs On. Amazon everybody please.
Speaker 3: And remember we have a show. Sponsor was this chalk
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Speaker 4: Soon that was from the.
Speaker 3: PUBLISHER i think you Said september twenty ninth is when
he expects it to. Ship that means if you ordered
From Jeff, bezos WHICH i hope that you never, do
you'll get it probably pretty. Quick if you order it from,
me you get a signed copy and.
Speaker 4: It'll come around that.
Speaker 3: TIME i can't, promise but already got hundreds of orders
in AND i thank you guys for your. Patients please don't.
Complain you don't have to. Worry i'm not stealing your
thirty forty. Dollars you will get your, BOOK i promise.
Speaker 4: You, otherwise, everybody have a great. Night thank you so
much being