WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:10.080 Oh, it's show tied. People say, good money to see 2 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.560 this movie. When they go out to a theater, they 3 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:16.320 want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in the 4 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:19.519 protection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 5 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.879 Don it off. 6 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.640 Scared as hell about being the dad, especially with everything 7 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:45.320 that just went on. 8 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.359 I think that all hell is gonna break loose sooner 9 00:00:52.399 --> 00:01:02.759 than later. Sure, no need to take it. 10 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.200 See that more militia, more and more street fighters. What 11 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:09.680 they say about organizations like this, you know those guys 12 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.480 are making up for something that they were lacking in 13 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:17.680 the family. That wasn't really the case for me. Everything 14 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:20.159 in my life. I've always been go big or go home. 15 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:21.719 All this for thirty seconds of. 16 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:23.239 Time, I might not go to jail. 17 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:29.959 There's a possibility of me not getting arrested. We got 18 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.480 guys in New York, one of which is married to 19 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:34.079 a black woman with black children. 20 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.280 That doesn't make you not racist if you have a 21 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:36.879 black they have. 22 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.359 I cannot grasp that concept. 23 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.120 Eight people will suffer a long train of abuses until 24 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.040 it gets to a point where I've added up. 25 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:51.480 Let's storm the capital. 26 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:54.879 Hello, dear, how are you? 27 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:58.000 I'm perfectly safe and everything is good. 28 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.319 We're just mating this little cold paint hole water and 29 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:03.680 I was wearing my mass the whole time. The end 30 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:05.879 result of this has to be a whole up pariot. 31 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:07.159 It has to be. 32 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:12.479 Now they're saying, oh, well, you know words message terrorists 33 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:15.479 and this and that. If you think DC was bad, 34 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:18.919 just wait, just wait. 35 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.319 Hey, folks, welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host, 36 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.719 Mike White. On this episode, I am talking with Michael Primo. 37 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.759 He is the director of the twenty twenty four documentary Homegrown. 38 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:38.680 It is a. 39 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:43.280 Pretty eye opening documentary all about the insurrection in twenty 40 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:47.919 twenty one, follows a few mega folks. Definitely a little 41 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:52.560 bit of a difficult watch, but a good watch. Had 42 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.919 a great time talking with mister Primo, and I hope 43 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:57.719 that you enjoyed this interview. Tell me a little bit 44 00:02:57.719 --> 00:02:59.919 about you and your backstory. How did you get involved 45 00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:00.599 in filmmaking. 46 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:06.039 I am an artist, filmmaker, journalist. I've worked in the 47 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:08.719 arts probably you know, since I was in middle school. 48 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:11.360 I went to drama school and worked in theater. I 49 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:15.199 you know, worked in local repertory and doing like background 50 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.319 extra stuff. As a teenager, I went to drama school 51 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.000 and was making theater for years and years and years 52 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.159 while simultaneously also making photos and trying to pitch them 53 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:27.759 to local newspapers. I was doing that right at that 54 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.960 moment when digital was becoming a thing and then papers 55 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.960 were being consolidated and hiring interns just to take photos 56 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:37.479 on cheap digital cameras. So it was it was a 57 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:41.719 funny moment. And I eventually got a job with story Core, 58 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.719 a national history project on MPR, and it was kind 59 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.639 of early days of the project. The project hadn't been 60 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:50.280 around for more than a decade at that point, I 61 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.280 don't think, and that really just set me on this 62 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:57.479 path of documentary work and then filmmaking. That just really 63 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.800 excited the sort of something in me that motion pictures 64 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:02.879 and cinema is where I want to go. 65 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.800 What were some of those early story Core stories for you? 66 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.120 So story Corps had the sort of general tour where 67 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.439 there were just these booths and these airstream trailers crisscrossing 68 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:18.920 the country, and then they had special thematic initiatives, and 69 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.319 I was doing a lot of those sort of thematic 70 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:24.800 special initiatives, and so I was doing one that was 71 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:28.000 collecting nine to eleven stories, which were amazing, and I'd 72 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.399 spent a lot of time with firefighters who were sort 73 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:33.120 of reliving and unpacking that day, and those stories sort 74 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:35.040 of live at the nine to eleven Museum. In addition 75 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:37.360 to the Library of Congress, I was also working with 76 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:40.360 the Grio Initiative, which was a project of the Smithsonian's 77 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.439 African American History Museum, where we were collecting something like 78 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.279 two thousand stories of African Americans around the country, and 79 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.000 that was fascinating. That was just like an unparalleled opportunity 80 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:53.199 to travel the country, like Alan Lomex, just like listening 81 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.199 to people's story around this sort of like pivotal moment 82 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:57.079 in American history. 83 00:04:58.120 --> 00:04:59.680 How did you get involved with Homegrown? 84 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.199 The idea for Homegrown first started sort of bubbling in 85 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:07.839 our brains around twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. We were watching 86 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:12.160 this sort of widening chasm in American political life that 87 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.360 I hadn't seen probably since maybe the early nineties. You know. 88 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:18.199 I came up in that sort of era of the 89 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:22.360 culture Wars, of that particular error and what was happening 90 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:27.120 when twenty fifteen, sixteen seventeen made that seem tame, there 91 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:29.560 was something in the air that felt like something large 92 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.720 and consequential was coming, And I of course didn't know 93 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:35.360 what that was or what that meant, but my experience 94 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.160 with social movements and my understanding of social movements, there 95 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.240 was just this like alignment happening among or that I 96 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:45.000 observed among all these different factions across the conservative spectrum 97 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.720 that were coming together in a way that was seen unique. 98 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:52.439 By twenty eighteen, we had finally organized our lives to 99 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.120 really sort of eraise a little bit of money to 100 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:57.879 dive into this project. We started filming people in twenty eighteen, 101 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:02.439 and we were really in trying to better understand what 102 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.240 people were fighting for, what was motivating them to get 103 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.120 off their computer and just sort of step into the street, 104 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:10.759 so to speak. And we really wanted to know why 105 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.360 and what was motivated them. And we were particularly interested 106 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:18.480 in this sort of like bubbling sentiment that maybe violence 107 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.759 was the only way to solve our political problems, and 108 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:25.000 that I found fascinated and really wanted to understand better 109 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:28.319 why people thought that might be the only course of action. 110 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.399 How easy or difficult was it for you to film 111 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.959 these folks, and did they welcome with open arms or 112 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:38.040 really ardent suspicion. 113 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:41.480 It was a mix of both. We live in this moment, 114 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.439 as you know, where there's just like so much sort 115 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:48.639 of animosity towards the news media, so much skepticism. I 116 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:51.879 feel like, you know, everyone has the so many more 117 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:55.120 avenues to be able to sort of broadcast and control 118 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.800 their own image, that people are largely suspicious of other 119 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:02.040 people interested in endeavor. But it was a real mix. 120 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.160 We met people that were kind of embraces with open arms. 121 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.160 They were like, Wow, why do you want to talk 122 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:09.720 to us? And some people were intrigued by the fact 123 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.439 that we were independent. When I explained what we do, 124 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:14.480 They're like, oh, wow, you're like a small business, like 125 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:16.600 a mom and pop shop. And I'm like, yeah, I 126 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.040 guess so. I'd never really thought about myself that way, 127 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:21.839 but yeah, every filmmaker is a small essentially a small business. 128 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.839 Every film you created, you're starting a new business essentially. 129 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.879 That really engendersome good will That was separated us from 130 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.240 some of the animosity that was directed at some of 131 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.839 my friends and colleagues who worked for sort of mainstream outlets, 132 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:36.879 And some people were just intrigued that someone like me 133 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.680 wanted to even know or talk to them because this 134 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.600 sort of us versus them posture that so many people 135 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.560 in American society have sunk into. Like there was this 136 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.800 degree of sort of oh, wow, you're not supposed to 137 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:51.160 want to talk to me, you want to hate me, right, 138 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:52.920 And I'm like, I don't know if that's actually true. 139 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.480 We're just sort of the truth we tell ourselves over 140 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.639 and over, so we believe it that alone, like we're 141 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:01.040 really intrigued people, and that that gave us. That allowed 142 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:03.160 us to get some access to people because they were 143 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.319 just so intrigued that we even wanted to stop and 144 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.560 talk to them, and we got far more access than 145 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:10.279 we anticipated. We filmed with dozens of, you know, a 146 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.920 dozen people across the country and it wasn't until we 147 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.560 got into the edit that we had to make those 148 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.319 really hard choices. And that's not uncommon for a very 149 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:19.519 tae film to be able to find the film in 150 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:19.920 the edit. 151 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.279 Now, I'm curious how many people were in your crew 152 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.199 when you're out there? Does that also help when it 153 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.959 comes to making you not as threatening with a whole 154 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:30.720 bunch of folks and sound and video and all. 155 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:34.480 That That's is absolutely I think was key to it 156 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:40.000 for most of the shoots, it was myself directing and shooting, 157 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:43.720 is doing this primary cinematography, and my producing partner, Rachel Falcone, 158 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.279 also does sound for motion pictures, so it was just 159 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:49.639 us two of us. Some shoots we had another colleague, 160 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:53.679 Jim Urkhart, who makes also a photojournalist for Reuter's, and 161 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.159 then some shoots we had we did have a second camera, 162 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:59.440 our friend, our colleague Brady Holden, but you know, it 163 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.879 was that was largely a factor of the pandemic. You know, 164 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.480 going before the pandemic, we had designs to have kind 165 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:08.399 of maybe like a four person crew kind of moving around, 166 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:12.360 but the pandemic really created the need to just be 167 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:15.960 as slim as possible for obvious reasons, and so ended 168 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.039 up being just me and Rachel on a lot of 169 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.799 shoots as well as Jimmy, And Jimmy was also there 170 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:22.919 shooting for Reuters, so he was sort of had this 171 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:26.759 double duty going on, and that was how we did 172 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:27.440 most of the film. 173 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.200 So eventually you do focus in on just a handful 174 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.159 of folks. I'm curious, how did you kind of make 175 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:36.000 those inroads with those people and say, like this is 176 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:37.600 going to be one of the people that I follow. 177 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:41.360 Yeah, so what we did after to prepare for the 178 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.360 project where so I'm just trying to read as many 179 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:47.240 of the sort of nonfiction books that were written post Obama, 180 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:51.720 like the backlash to President Obama's time in office, and 181 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.840 that informed a lay of the land. And so we 182 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.200 just started going out and developing sources like you do 183 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:01.559 with an investigation, and so meeting people, and we would 184 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.960 follow people and initially what we were interested in, because 185 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:07.720 it's cinema, it's its motion picture. We needed to have 186 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:09.559 people who were sort of out there in the world. 187 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.919 And we met a lot of interesting, fascinating people that 188 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:14.919 were just kind of doing a lot more online. And 189 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.519 so immediately that sort of like cut out a whole 190 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:20.360 swath of people that we could follow. And then once 191 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.120 we sort of had a bunch of folks in the 192 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:24.440 cans so to speak, who you know, had given us 193 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:26.360 the privilege of allowing us to spend a lot of 194 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:29.240 time with them, it became a different sort of task. 195 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.840 And that task was, Okay, we've now spent you know, 196 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.480 a year, two three years sort of in this world 197 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:37.879 understanding these people. How do the people that we select 198 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.000 as the final participants of the film represent not only 199 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:43.480 their own truths, but how do they but can they 200 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.960 speak to broader trends? Can they speak to sort of 201 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:49.960 like a whole swath of people who may kind of 202 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.840 fit a similar profile. And so that's what led us 203 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:54.720 to the sort of final three people in the film. 204 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:58.759 This one individual named Chris, who we were really interested in, 205 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.480 intrigued and following initially because he was one of those 206 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.600 people who before twenty sixteen he self identified as never 207 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.879 really being into politics, never really caring about presidential elections 208 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.639 at all. But there was something about Trump riding down 209 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.840 that golden elevator and what he was saying that really 210 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:19.639 spoke to him, and I thought that was intriguing, particularly 211 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:22.919 because he was somebody who was from New Jerseys, from 212 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.840 the Tri state area as well, and so like I 213 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:28.440 grew up with Trump my whole life, just in the tabloids, 214 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.519 he was just like a known commodity. So it was 215 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.200 really fascinating that someone who also sort of just grew 216 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.639 up with Trump and the tabloids would suddenly be intrigued 217 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.720 by somebody there who was not necessarily new to their 218 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.440 life and what they were saying. But Chris really spoke 219 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:46.200 to that bad was this Latino dude from South Texas 220 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.840 who he met at the time he was living in Utah, 221 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:53.240 and he represented the sort of like increasing multicultural, sort 222 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:56.480 of element of the conservative movement that I didn't really 223 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.799 see represented in the media. The conservative movement is largely 224 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.600 trade as a sort of monochromatic occurrence, but that what 225 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.039 we found in are reporting and being out there in 226 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:07.679 the world. There was a lot more people of color 227 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.440 who were called to the movement than we had seen 228 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:13.480 previously reported, so that was why he was important. And 229 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.799 then Randy, the third person in the story, third participant, 230 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:21.679 represented that sort of tireless behind the scene organizer who's 231 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.399 spends a lot of time on the phone and on 232 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.759 the computer and on their sort of chat rooms just 233 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.399 sort of like building momentum for the movement and organizing 234 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:31.919 and coordinating. And that sort of organizing is sort of 235 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:34.279 hard to show in films because a lot of it 236 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:38.240 is quiet, one on one time with individuals or online work. 237 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:39.960 And where we found somebody who was sort of like 238 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:42.519 really gregarious and sort of out there doing that work, 239 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.279 he felt like he was important to include. 240 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:48.320 There's that whole idea of by you being a documentary 241 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:51.720 filmmaker that you actually kind of change your subject just 242 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:54.159 by turning your camera on them. And I'm curious as 243 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:57.600 far as did you find a time where you think 244 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:01.320 maybe your people were holding back just because you're filming them, 245 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.759 or did they eventually become completely natural. 246 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:08.320 I don't know if people could ever become completely natural, 247 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.840 but certainly people let down their guard. I think one 248 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.279 of our big takeaways from our time at Story Corps 249 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:19.279 was how important creating an environment of sort of trust 250 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:23.679 and and that that's inviting can set the stage for 251 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:26.240 people sort of letting down their guard and sort of 252 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.519 like maybe they're performing a little bit at the start, 253 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:31.840 but the more time you spend with people and the 254 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:33.840 sort of like the more of a rapport that you 255 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:36.320 develop with people, eventually they're going to sort of let 256 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.759 down that guard and just sort of slip back into 257 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.480 the way they normally are. And I think that's feel like, 258 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.879 that's what we experienced, and that's was also a factor 259 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:46.519 of the amount of time we spent with people. You know, 260 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:49.360 we spent years with these individuals, and after a while, 261 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.159 people just are who they are. I think one of 262 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.519 the examples of that was in was on around January 263 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:57.759 sixth with Chris. One of the people in the movie 264 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.600 that you know Chris had was it was so excited 265 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.600 to be at to be in DC for January sixth, 266 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:08.120 and the night before I kept saying, hey, like, don't 267 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.480 leave the hotel without us. I was really afraid that 268 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:12.519 we'd just sort of lose him in a crowd of people. 269 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.159 We'd have to like sort through the sea of people 270 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:16.720 to be able to find him. And I was like, Bro, 271 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.000 it's just like, don't leave the hotel without telling us. Please, 272 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.440 don't leave the hotel without telling us. And of course 273 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.000 I wake up in the morning, He's on the phone. 274 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:27.200 He's like, dude, where are you. I'm like, bro, don't 275 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:30.120 tell me you left the hotel. He's like, yeah, I'm 276 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.720 already out of here. The crowd starting to gather. We 277 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.519 were like, oh, okay, so you know, you wake up, 278 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:38.799 grab my camera. I'm out the door. And so that 279 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.519 sort of like reinforced in our opinion the fact that like, 280 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.480 regardless of whether or not we were there or not, 281 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:47.080 he was going to do the things that he said 282 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:49.159 he was going to do and eventually did that. We 283 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:50.440 happened to document. 284 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.840 What was it like that day being there amidst all 285 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:57.480 of that chaos. 286 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.120 Yeah, and I was certainly day I'm not gonna forget 287 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.879 one of the craziest shoots I've ever been on, for sure. 288 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:09.639 So we, you know, having been so deeply immersed and 289 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.639 with people in this movement for so long, we knew 290 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:15.320 that something was going to happen. We could have never 291 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.039 imagined that this was going to happen, but we knew 292 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.200 that the things were building to a point where something 293 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.679 was gonna pop. We were kind of mentally preparing ourselves 294 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.639 for that as well as sort of like the sort 295 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.759 of safety and security protocols that we were sort of 296 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.519 developing along the way. And when Trump sent that text 297 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:38.360 around Christmas of twenty twenty saying, you know, this certification 298 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:40.080 is on the sixth, there's gonna be lots of people. 299 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.600 There will be wild, we knew that it was going 300 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.360 to be wild. Immediately on cable news and social media, 301 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:53.360 the refrain that was just like repeated ad nauseum was 302 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.480 we need to storm the capitol. We need to storm 303 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:57.480 the capitol. We need to storm the Capitol. And so 304 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.720 hearing all this because of a lot of these groups 305 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:04.120 that I'm filing, a lot of these like social media 306 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.960 groups that I'm in and following are like Blue Lives 307 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.759 Matter groups and groups that have a lot of police 308 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:13.600 law enforcement participation. So I assumed that there would be 309 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.440 no way we would get anywhere near the Capitol that 310 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.159 the DC Police and Capitol Police and Parks Police would 311 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:24.200 have the sort of capital completely courting off. And when 312 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.399 we got there that morning, we finally caught up to Chris, 313 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.399 and Chris went to meet his friends at the beginning 314 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.519 of at the sort of base of the Capitol before 315 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.240 Trump even started his speech, preparing themselves to storm the capitol. 316 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:38.639 I was absolutely shocked that there was just barely any 317 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.720 sort of law enforcement presence and there was no sort 318 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.000 of like riot control like the big gates or the 319 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.679 dump trucks or all those sort of various riot control 320 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.879 stuff that the Parks Police and the Capitol Police deploy regularly. 321 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.240 And that kind of sums up how I processed that day, 322 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.639 which was like I wasn't surprised, like we knew that 323 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:00.600 the call was to storm the Capitol, but we were 324 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.919 absolutely shocked, like absolutely shocked that there was that the 325 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.160 response was when it was, and what resulted was, you know, 326 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.920 was the result normally. 327 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.240 When I interviewed a documentary filmmaker. I asked them, you know, 328 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.720 what did your subjects think of the documentary? When did 329 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.759 they have a chance to see this. I'm curious, what 330 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:18.920 do your folks think. 331 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.960 Of this doc Chris's response was, it's not completely biased, 332 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:30.240 so that was ringing endorment endorsement. He was pretty frustrated 333 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.519 that we didn't include a couple of these conspiracy theories 334 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:35.519 that he has in his head that he's convinced. We 335 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.400 didn't include them because they don't exist, and we were 336 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.559 just following him and his actions. But the response has been, 337 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.039 you know, there's some Proud Boys who saw some and 338 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.039 some former Proud Boys who were like, wow, this is 339 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:49.279 the most accurate depiction of January sixth that I've seen 340 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.000 in the media. Like, That's exactly what my experience was. 341 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:54.240 There was moments of highs, there was lows. I was 342 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.480 running into people that I had seen at all these 343 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.000 other rallies beforehand. That's, you know, the responses that I'm getting. 344 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.000 So people felt like we sort of were accurate. They 345 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.640 were some people are frustrated that there was It makes 346 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.480 the movement seem more violent than it is for people 347 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.799 to watch them and make their own judgment about Fad however, 348 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:14.000 has not seen the film. I'm hoping to get the 349 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.359 film dim. He's in jail in Texas on a charge 350 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:19.880 unrelated to activism, and now that we have the final 351 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.440 film and we're sort of getting closer to release, we're 352 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.240 trying to figure out how to get into the Texas 353 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:27.359 jail so he can see that. Yeah, it's a weird 354 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:29.240 moment with not having DVDs. 355 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.039 I'm curious what the audience reactions were when you have 356 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:34.039 been able to show this. 357 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.519 Yeah, the audience reactions have been absolutely overwhelming. I've never 358 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.319 worked on a film where virtually the entire audience stays 359 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:45.640 for the Q and A. It's unprecedented, and particularly in Europe, 360 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.200 the response has been huge, where people just want to 361 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.559 know what's happening in America. They want to know the 362 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:54.000 mind of the not just the kind of the famous politicians, 363 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.880 but just the everyday people who are behind this movement. 364 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.720 This film elicits very strong reactions, and some of the 365 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.200 st fungest reactions surprisingly have come from some sort of 366 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:05.480 more liberal leaning people who are just like annoyed or 367 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.839 insensed that a film about these people exists and that 368 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:12.359 has been fascinating. That has been really telling, where people 369 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.359 are like, oh, no, this seems sympathetic to them, like 370 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.519 this that's complete bs, like why did you do this? 371 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.559 And that's fascinating to me. But yeah, by and large, 372 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.279 people we've got these responses where people are like, well, 373 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:25.799 I didn't know I needed to see this film until 374 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.039 I saw this film. We had this group of women 375 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.279 who would work in Florida and they describe themselves as 376 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:35.200 former Conservatives. They're not full time organizers and activists. They 377 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.359 have sort of regular jobs and they do some activism 378 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.920 on the side. And one of them said, well, I'm 379 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.160 struggling to raise boys in this moment that aren't just 380 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:44.319 sort of like wrapped up in this violence and so 381 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:46.799 obsessed with this. And I haven't talked to my friends 382 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.000 or so many of my friends or neighborhoods in the 383 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:53.039 last five ten years, and now seeing this film, I 384 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.559 feel like I have all these ideas on how to 385 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.519 re engage because I feel like I understand where they're 386 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.960 coming from just a little bit. And that's been fascinating. 387 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.720 What is the rollout planned for the film. 388 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.799 The film premiered at the Venice Film Festival last year. 389 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:14.039 We've done our festival circuit. We have broadcasts in Germany 390 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.200 and Spain and Netherlands and Australia and New Zealand and 391 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:20.079 a bunch of these European and Oceanic countries, but we 392 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:23.400 don't have US distribution in the United States. Some of 393 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.920 the more commercial broadcasters have sent us confounding rejection letters 394 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.440 where they wrote these beautiful letters around how they love 395 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.640 the film and what it elicited in them and why 396 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:34.640 they think it's important, why people need to see them. 397 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:37.880 But they can't be the ones to do that. People 398 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.319 are feel like they're concerned about controversy or they're concerned 399 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:46.079 about upsetting the wrong constituent. It's really tough moment, as 400 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:49.279 you know, for distribution in America. So we're doing this 401 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:54.039