Speaker 1: I felt a horrible blow to my neck.
Speaker 2: It felt like someone had taken a nice ball bat
Speaker 2: and just slammed it into my neck.
Speaker 3: Time came to a halt as she stood frozen in disbelief,
Speaker 3: and then adrenaline crashed through Donna's body and mind. She
Speaker 3: gripped the arrow tightly with both hands and ran to
Speaker 3: find her husband.
Speaker 2: I reacted just like a dar does when they're shot.
Speaker 2: They stop and then I run, And that's what I did.
Speaker 2: I stopped and ran.
Speaker 3: Ed responded quickly to his wife's screens, but nothing could
Speaker 3: have prepared him for the sight of an arrow protruding
Speaker 3: from his wife's neck. This is the Miracle Files. I'm
Speaker 3: Emily Jones.
Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Worthington.
Speaker 4: We're two sisters who love a captivating true story, but
Speaker 4: we're also seeking more light in our lives.
Speaker 3: So we're in a mission to find and share unforget
Speaker 3: uplifting stories of God's miracles. We hope you'll join us
Speaker 3: on this journey.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the Miracle Files. We have such a
Speaker 4: crazy story for you today.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. This one was submitted to us actually by
Speaker 3: our sister Julie Hi. A couple of years ago. Yes, Hi, Julie,
Speaker 3: and she actually read about this story in the Reader's
Speaker 3: Digest about a woman named Donna. When we read Donna's story,
Speaker 3: we're like, we have to share this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But the only problem was we couldn't find Donna.
Speaker 3: I know, I know. We searched and searched, and we
Speaker 3: could not find Donna. And so finally we just decided
Speaker 3: to share her story in a short social media reel.
Speaker 3: And then one day, unexpectedly, Donna happened to see this reel,
Speaker 3: and then she reached out to us and she said
Speaker 3: that she would be willing to come on our podcast
Speaker 3: and share the full story in her own words.
Speaker 4: Yes, and we were so excited. So I heard her
Speaker 4: full story, Jah literally dropped like I was like, no way,
Speaker 4: this is not real.
Speaker 3: It's an amazing story and we're not going to make
Speaker 3: you wait much longer. But before we begin, we just
Speaker 3: want to remind everyone that if you haven't already subscribed
Speaker 3: to our podcast, please make sure you do so, and
Speaker 3: if you would be so kind, please leave us a review.
Speaker 3: They help our podcast so much.
Speaker 1: They do.
Speaker 4: All right, let's get to the story.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go. Donna Barber and her husband Ed raised
Speaker 3: their family in Sunray, Texas. It was the kind of
Speaker 3: town where everybody knew everybody where. Children were bicycles down
Speaker 3: quiet streets until the porch lights came on, and we're
Speaker 3: a teacher never really stops being a teacher. In fact,
Speaker 3: former students would still call Donna missus Barber for years
Speaker 3: after leaving her second grade classroom. The town only had
Speaker 3: a few restaurants and a dollar General, but it had
Speaker 3: something more important community. By the spring of Donna's sixty
Speaker 3: third year, as retirement approached, Donna was beginning to realize
Speaker 3: just how much of her life had been poured into
Speaker 3: that little town.
Speaker 2: I was in the last month of school, and I
Speaker 2: was retiring at.
Speaker 1: The end of the year.
Speaker 2: And I came home from school, and it was a
Speaker 2: typical guy with little children, and I was tired, and
Speaker 2: I went out to my backyard to just as some
Speaker 2: gardening and relax. That's my happy place in the spring.
Speaker 2: I love planning the flowers and getting the yard going.
Speaker 1: So I was out there working.
Speaker 3: As the afternoon wore on. Donna left her garden and
Speaker 3: walked over to the grill to light the charcoal. It
Speaker 3: was almost supper time. She stood waiting under her covered
Speaker 3: patio for a moment while the grill heated, There was
Speaker 3: no sense that anything could possibly go wrong. Somewhere nearby,
Speaker 3: children played outside, dogs barked in the distance, and a
Speaker 3: warm breeze stirred the hanging flower baskets on Donna's patio
Speaker 3: as she crossed beneath them, thinking about dinner and absolutely
Speaker 3: nothing else. Behind the houses that bordered her backyard, hidden
Speaker 3: from Donna's view, one of her former students stood in
Speaker 3: his backyard, practicing his aim with a compound bow. He
Speaker 3: was a good kid from a family Donna knew well.
Speaker 3: His mother taught alongside Donna at the school, and like
Speaker 3: many West Texas teens, he liked to hunt. Today he
Speaker 3: was practicing his aim. He placed a practice arrow in
Speaker 3: his bow and stretched the string back smoothly. He pointed
Speaker 3: the arrow at a makeshift target in his backyard. There
Speaker 3: was no recklessness in it, no malice. The young man
Speaker 3: released the arrow. At first, everything appeared to follow the
Speaker 3: path it should have. The arrow flew toward its target
Speaker 3: with the speed and force compoun on bows are designed
Speaker 3: to produce. But the arrow missed its intended target and
Speaker 3: sailed just over it. Striking the most innocuous of things.
Speaker 2: And the arrow went over the target, and it hit
Speaker 2: a children's slide, a little plastic children's slide, and rick
Speaker 2: ascheid turned completely around.
Speaker 3: The arrow initially traveled north, but once it hit the slide,
Speaker 3: it reversed direction and headed south, launching backward through a
Speaker 3: maze of obstacles no one could ever have intentionally navigated.
Speaker 2: And it went over three fences and tall shrubs, and
Speaker 2: the branches of an outree and a twenty two hanging baskets.
Speaker 3: Yes, the hanging baskets on Donna's porch. Donna never saw
Speaker 3: it coming. One second she was casually crossing the patio,
Speaker 3: and the next something struck her neck with unbelievable force.
Speaker 2: I felt a horrible blog to my neck. It felt
Speaker 2: like someone had taken a nice ball bat and just
Speaker 2: slammed it into my neck. And you know, my Brian
Speaker 2: was saying, that's not possible. There's no one here.
Speaker 3: Donna's eyes searched her yard, confused, Her hand went straight
Speaker 3: to her neck.
Speaker 2: I had thought of all kinds of things, but I
Speaker 2: had not thought of what it was. It was an arrow,
Speaker 2: and I was a nice and shocked and stunned and
Speaker 2: just scared.
Speaker 3: Time came to a halt as she stood frozen in disbelief,
Speaker 3: and then adrenaline crashed through Donna's body in.
Speaker 2: Mind, I reacted just like a dar does when they're shot.
Speaker 2: They stop and then they run. And that's what I did.
Speaker 2: I stopped and ran.
Speaker 3: Donna had always heard that if something impaled the body,
Speaker 3: pulling it out could make the bleeding worse, and even
Speaker 3: through the shock, that thought surfaced clearly enough to guide her,
Speaker 3: so instead of trying to remove it, she gripped the
Speaker 3: arrow tightly with both hands and ran to find her husband.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how I got in the house
Speaker 2: without bending the arrow. I grabbed the arrow and I
Speaker 2: ran in the house, yelling for my husband, and he
Speaker 2: was in the back of the house talking on the
Speaker 2: Thhe to our daughter, Keyla, and he hired me and
Speaker 2: came running and grabbed me by the shoulders because I
Speaker 2: was just frantic.
Speaker 1: I was just running.
Speaker 3: Ed responded quickly to his wife's screens, but nothing could
Speaker 3: have prepared him for the sight of an arrow protruding
Speaker 3: from his wife's.
Speaker 2: Neck, and he grabbed me by the shoulders and telp
Speaker 2: me to lie down and I did, and he went
Speaker 2: and called nine one one. I remember him saying, we
Speaker 2: need an ambulance and gave the adress and gave his
Speaker 2: name and everything, and said, my wife's been shot with
Speaker 2: an arrow.
Speaker 3: Hearing those words was so surreal. Shot by an arrow.
Speaker 3: Donna tried to grasp what was happening to her. Could
Speaker 3: these be the last seconds of her life? And in
Speaker 3: that moment, she knew she needed strength and help beyond
Speaker 3: her own.
Speaker 2: As soon as allied, Diana started crying, and I just
Speaker 2: felt pace. It just was a perfect pace come up
Speaker 2: or May. And I was still scared. I was still
Speaker 2: afraid of what this day. I didn't know if I
Speaker 2: could survive, but I felt pace with it.
Speaker 3: Ed sat down on the floor next to Donna, trying
Speaker 3: to comfort her as they waited for help to arrive.
Speaker 1: And he was very good with May. He was very
Speaker 1: calm and kept me calm.
Speaker 3: In Sunray, there were no paramedics stationed nearby. The town
Speaker 3: relied on volunteer EMTs and firefighters, neighbors who knew Donna personally,
Speaker 3: many of whom had either sat in Donna's classroom years
Speaker 3: earlier or had children who had been Donna students. The
Speaker 3: volunteers hurried to gather their equipment and head to Missus
Speaker 3: Barber's home. Meanwhile, someone else appeared at Ed and Donna's
Speaker 3: front door. It was the young man who had shot
Speaker 3: the arrow. He had heard Missus Barber's scream and was
Speaker 3: convinced in that instant that he had killed her.
Speaker 2: And he stood at the door, and he was very upset,
Speaker 2: and he just kept saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: and I didn't say anything.
Speaker 3: Donna wanted to offer him reassurance, but the arrow made
Speaker 3: it impossible. Every attempt to speak caused it to shift
Speaker 3: against her larynx, making it too painful to get a
Speaker 3: word out. Though Ed could see the young man was distraught,
Speaker 3: his attention remained fixed on helping Donna. He quickly sent
Speaker 3: the boy home to get his mother. As soon as
Speaker 3: the empts arrived. They worked swiftly and calmly, disguising the
Speaker 3: alarm they truly felt seeing Missus Barbara in this state. Outside.
Speaker 3: Word had spread through Sunray. Some people heard the emergency
Speaker 3: call over police scanners. Others noticed the flashing lights outside
Speaker 3: the Barber's house. By the time Donna was carried from
Speaker 3: the house. Her driveway and yard had been filled with
Speaker 3: worried friends, former students, church members, and neighbors desperate for updates,
Speaker 3: offering countless prayers for this beloved neighbor and teacher. And
Speaker 3: among the familiar faces in the crowd were some of
Speaker 3: her current second grade students.
Speaker 2: And I putting in the ambulance, and I looked around,
Speaker 2: and there were even some of my children that I
Speaker 2: taught that were out there, and I thought, how awful
Speaker 2: for them to say that.
Speaker 3: That image stayed with Donna, even in the middle of
Speaker 3: her own fear. Seeing those children standing there, frightened for
Speaker 3: their teacher broke her heart. The ambulance doors closed thirty
Speaker 3: minutes after being shot in the neck by a stray arrow.
Speaker 3: The ambulance took Donna to the airport, where she was
Speaker 3: loaded into a helicopter. As the helicopter rotor began to
Speaker 3: turn her Nerve's sword, but then another feeling quieted her fears.
Speaker 2: When I left it off, I could feel those prayers.
Speaker 2: I remembered the people at my house, and there were
Speaker 2: a lot of people at the airport, and I didn't
Speaker 2: even need to be praying because I'd got it.
Speaker 1: You know, that got my back. They're pryingna.
Speaker 3: While Donna was being transported to the hospital in Amarillo,
Speaker 3: her daughter Kila and son Kyle rushed to be by
Speaker 3: her side. Hundreds of miles away in Dallas, her youngest son, Mitch,
Speaker 3: received a frantic phone call from his sister Kila. She
Speaker 3: managed only to tell him their mother had been shot
Speaker 3: with an arrow before the call. Suddenly, as they drove
Speaker 3: through a dead zone, Mitch sat there, stunned, replaying the
Speaker 3: words in his mind because they sounded too bizarre to
Speaker 3: be real. An arrow, surely he had misunderstood, but he hadn't.
Speaker 3: As details slowly reached him, Mitch scrambled to book the
Speaker 3: last available flight to Amarillo. He rushed to the airport,
Speaker 3: unsure if he would even make it. Southwest employees stayed
Speaker 3: on the phone with him while he raced toward love Field,
Speaker 3: assuring him they would hold the plane as long as possible.
Speaker 3: He ran through security until agents stopped him for additional screening.
Speaker 3: Panicked and desperate, Mitch blurted out the truth that his
Speaker 3: mom had been shot by an arrow. The agent stared
Speaker 3: at him for a moment before finally waving him through.
Speaker 3: When Mitch boarded the aircraft. Every passenger was already seated
Speaker 3: and waiting for departure. He hurried to his seat, overwhelmed
Speaker 3: with fear, trying unsuccessfully to steady himself. A man seated
Speaker 3: nearby noticed immediately that something was terribly wrong and quietly
Speaker 3: asked what had happened. When Mitch explained where he was
Speaker 3: going and why, the stranger simply said, let's pray.
Speaker 2: So as the plane was fulling alive from the terminal,
Speaker 2: thy were prying, and I displayed with almah heart that
Speaker 2: God sent.
Speaker 1: That man on that plot for Mitch. He needed somebody
Speaker 1: right there.
Speaker 3: Back in Amarillo, Donna lay in a hospital bed, surrounded
Speaker 3: by medical professionals trying desperately to save her life. The
Speaker 3: trauma doctors rushed Donna into scans to determine exactly where
Speaker 3: the arrow had traveled. They stared at the images, examining
Speaker 3: what had to be a critical injury, but what they
Speaker 3: discovered stunned everyone.
Speaker 2: The arrow had gone between the carotid artery and the
Speaker 2: juggler thye and the sky said it went between was
Speaker 2: smaller than the diameter of the arrow. The raw just
Speaker 2: pushed the vines aside and slipped trot again and if
Speaker 2: it had nicked either one, I would have bled to
Speaker 2: death in just minutes. That it just stopped at Malaya next,
Speaker 2: it didn't go all the way through.
Speaker 3: Doctors couldn't believe their eyes. Medical staff tried explaining to
Speaker 3: Donna how lucky she was, how the trajectory of the
Speaker 3: arrow was virtually impossible, but she corrected them, not.
Speaker 1: Lucky, blessed.
Speaker 3: As incredible as the trajectory of the arrow was, Donna's
Speaker 3: journey was far from over. She still needed a very
Speaker 3: dangerous surgery to remove the arrow. The surgeon available that
Speaker 3: day was not even from Amarillo. He was a specialist
Speaker 3: from Houston temporarily filling in at the hospital, and according
Speaker 3: to members of the medical team, he was also only
Speaker 3: one of a handful of surgeons who possessed the skills
Speaker 3: necessary to perform the delicate operation without causing catastrophic damage.
Speaker 3: By the following morning, the arrow was successfully removed, and
Speaker 3: Donna awoke from surgery surrounded by her husband and children.
Speaker 3: It was a moment of relief and celebration. But then
Speaker 3: a doctor entered Donna's hospital room and said he needed
Speaker 3: to deliver some news. The words that came out of
Speaker 3: his mouth made Donna feel like she'd been hit with
Speaker 3: an arrow all over again.
Speaker 2: He said, I need to tell you that the cat
Speaker 2: scan shouted that you have a brine timor, and I
Speaker 2: just remember going sort of nan.
Speaker 3: Everyone in the room went silent, once again, trying to
Speaker 3: process the reality of their situation. The doctor went on
Speaker 3: to explain that though the tumor appeared benign, its location
Speaker 3: was extremely dangerous.
Speaker 2: With that to cross the midline of my prime and
Speaker 2: I would have had a massive strout just with them
Speaker 2: a short time.
Speaker 3: The tumor, unseen unknown, was only days, two weeks away
Speaker 3: from ending Donna's life. For Donna, her family, and the
Speaker 3: doctor's the realization was staggering. Without the arrow, no one
Speaker 3: would have found the tumor in time. And suddenly what
Speaker 3: had felt like a blow now became clear as divine intervention.
Speaker 3: The very thing that should have killed her had instead
Speaker 3: uncovered a life threatening condition hidden silently inside her body.
Speaker 3: A neurosurgeon soon confirmed how serious the situation was. They
Speaker 3: would need to operate immediately. Donna tried persuading him to
Speaker 3: wait until the school year ended because she didn't want
Speaker 3: to miss her retirement celebration, but he refused. The tumor
Speaker 3: could not wait, so only day after surviving an arrow
Speaker 3: through her neck, Donna underwent brain surgery once again. Hundreds
Speaker 3: of prayers were offered on her behalf, and once again
Speaker 3: Donna survived. So right about now you're probably thinking this
Speaker 3: story is over. Donna's tragic accident led to a discovery
Speaker 3: that saved her life, an incredible miracle. But Donna's story
Speaker 3: doesn't end there. Over the next few years, something else
Speaker 3: began to unfold.
Speaker 2: They tell me that I needed to come in once
Speaker 2: a year and I would do a cat scan and
Speaker 2: make sure the timor wasn't going to come back.
Speaker 1: So the first couple of years I.
Speaker 2: Went in, it was fine. And the third year that
Speaker 2: called me and I said we needed to come in,
Speaker 2: and of course we knew that wasn't good.
Speaker 3: The doctor entered the room once again with a concerned
Speaker 3: look on his face. The doctor entered the room, once
Speaker 3: again with a concerned look on his face. Donna braced
Speaker 3: herself for more bad news. Had her tumor returned and.
Speaker 2: I said, it's Donna brin timor bit to have a
Speaker 2: brin aneurysm that we caught.
Speaker 3: The surgeon explained that the aneurysm appeared dangerously close to rupturing,
Speaker 3: and if it did, she would die. The next few
Speaker 3: weeks were a whirlwind. The surgical team got Donna into surgery,
Speaker 3: and once again, through medical prowess and by the power
Speaker 3: and mercy of God, Donna survived. It was beyond unbelievable.
Speaker 3: Donna's arrow hadn't saved her life just once, but twice.
Speaker 3: By this point, God had made it abundantly clear none
Speaker 3: of Donna's story could be dismissed as coincidence. As the
Speaker 3: years went by, Donna resisted speaking publicly about what had
Speaker 3: happened to her because she hated standing in front of groups,
Speaker 3: and eventually she agreed to share the story at a
Speaker 3: church women's gathering, and afterward invitations kept coming. Every audience
Speaker 3: seemed to react differently. Some people cried, some sat speechless.
Speaker 3: Others approached her afterward, wanting to tell stories of their
Speaker 3: own suffering, grief, fear, or moments when they too had
Speaker 3: wondered whether God still saw them. Donna understood those feelings deeply,
Speaker 3: because before the arrow, she had always believed in God,
Speaker 3: but still sometimes felt small in the vastness of the world.
Speaker 3: She was just a second grade teacher in a tiny
Speaker 3: Texas town, one ordinary person among billions. But after surviving
Speaker 3: the impossible, she no longer believed anyone was invisible to God.
Speaker 3: Even the young man who fired the arrow remained woven
Speaker 3: into the miracle. At the time of Donna's first surgery,
Speaker 3: he came to the hospital devastated. He brought Donna flower
Speaker 3: and apologized again through tears. Donna looked at him and
Speaker 3: told him something she hoped would transform the way he
Speaker 3: carried the tragedy, and.
Speaker 2: I said, heney, I think you saved my life.
Speaker 3: Fourteen years later, he still apologizes sometimes, and fourteen years later,
Speaker 3: Donna still tells him the same thing, He was part
Speaker 3: of God's plan. Today, the arrow hangs framed in Donna's home,
Speaker 3: beneath a plaque engraved with two simple words, amazing grace.
Speaker 3: Because after all these years, that is still the only
Speaker 3: explanation Donna, missus Barber, beloved friend, teacher and child of
Speaker 3: the Most High, has ever needed.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think that era wasn't just for me.
Speaker 2: I think it was for people who needed to know, Yes,
Speaker 2: God's still here, He's still with us every day. I
Speaker 2: think He's using that story to help everyone understand it.
Speaker 2: He's still marking and no matter how insignificant you think
Speaker 2: you are in a world of however many billion people
Speaker 2: there are, you're important to God.
Speaker 4: I still cannot get over this story. I keep going
Speaker 4: back to the thought over and over again of what
Speaker 4: are the odds of her first of all getting shot
Speaker 4: by an arrow that just barely misses her arteries, but
Speaker 4: then also finding a brain tumor and an aneurysm.
Speaker 3: It's just incredible, so miraculous. And I love the part
Speaker 3: where she told this young man who accidentally shot her
Speaker 3: in the next yes, I think you saved my life.
Speaker 3: He did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if that arrow hadn't to hit her, her story
Speaker 4: would have been completely different.
Speaker 3: And Donna said that this story has been shared all
Speaker 3: over the world, and I think it just illustrates how
Speaker 3: God is in the details of our lives.
Speaker 4: Yes, And it reminds me that God is aware of
Speaker 4: this big picture that we're not always aware of. Because
Speaker 4: when I first heard the story and I was listening
Speaker 4: to it, and I was thinking, like, if God could
Speaker 4: have had the arrow just avoid those arteries, and why
Speaker 4: couldn't it have just missed her completely?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: And then you get to this point in the story
Speaker 4: where you realize that there was a there was a
Speaker 4: medical emergency that would have never been discovered if Donna
Speaker 4: hadn't been shot by the Abdaro.
Speaker 3: And sometimes you don't realize the why until years later.
Speaker 3: But Donna's faith is so strong, and she stared something
Speaker 3: with us that was very personal. Recently, her husband ed
Speaker 3: sadly passed away from congestive heart failure, and as she
Speaker 3: was driving him to the hospital. She was heading toward
Speaker 3: Amarillo because that's where all the best doctors were, and
Speaker 3: he passed away as they were driving there, and so
Speaker 3: instead of going to Amarillo, she went to a local
Speaker 3: hospital and here what she said happened next.
Speaker 1: So I took him to that hospital, and I was
Speaker 1: immediately surrounded by friends and my church family and friends
Speaker 1: and everybody was right there. If I had.
Speaker 2: Gotten him to Amarella, I don't think the circumstances would
Speaker 2: have changed, and I wouldn't have had all those people
Speaker 2: that I loved helping me. And I even had three
Speaker 2: students who worked at the hospital who came in and
Speaker 2: hugged me, and one of them said, can we pry
Speaker 2: and he said a prayer with me, And you know,
Speaker 2: that was Scott's mercy. It didn't end like I wanted
Speaker 2: it to, but that's life. We all go through that.
Speaker 3: Wow, this is just another example of how God can
Speaker 3: really see you through your hardest moments.
Speaker 4: And how many times do we hear people say that
Speaker 4: they felt peace in the middle of these terrifying or
Speaker 4: terrible or heartbreaking situations and you just wouldn't expect that,
Speaker 4: But Donna felt that piece both when she was hit
Speaker 4: with the arrow and later when her husband passed away.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I know, you'd expect them to feel like
Speaker 3: despair or fear, and so many people talk about this
Speaker 3: peace and I'm like, you're in the face of dying
Speaker 3: or your loved one's dying and you feel peace, and
Speaker 3: it's hard to comprehend, but it's such a gift.
Speaker 4: Such a gift, and we both experienced that ourselves. Like
Speaker 4: I've mentioned this before, but years ago, my husband was
Speaker 4: run over by a car and it was such a
Speaker 4: terrifying moment and everything around me was in chaos, but
Speaker 4: at the same time, I said a prayer and I
Speaker 4: felt so much peace come over me and amazing. It's
Speaker 4: a piece that I cannot explain other than to say
Speaker 4: that it was from God.
Speaker 3: Well and it's not like it removed the situation. No,
Speaker 3: but amazing that God could comfort you in that horrible
Speaker 3: moment exactly. All right. Well, we want to thank Donna
Speaker 3: for share her story with us. She is the sweetest lady.
Speaker 3: I absolutely love.
Speaker 4: We love her and she's such a godly woman.
Speaker 1: You have so much faith. I admire for so much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we want to thank everyone else for joining
Speaker 3: us today. If you know somebody who could use an
Speaker 3: uplift in their life, or who could use a reminder
Speaker 3: that God is still a God of miracles, please share
Speaker 3: this podcast with them. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: See you then, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4: If you have a miracle to share, contact us at
Speaker 4: the Miracle files dot com or find us on social media.
Speaker 4: We release new episodes each Monday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so don't forget Miracle Mondays. Subscribe on your favorite
Speaker 3: podcast platform and YouTube for amazing video content as well.
Speaker 4: Join us next time as we discover more of God's miracles,
Speaker 4: and don't forget to look for His light in your
Speaker 4: own lives.