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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking
Speaker 5: Killers in True crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 6: Good Evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 6: program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime
Speaker 6: History and the authors that have written about them. Where
Speaker 6: was Sandra? Across the country? Parents watched with growing panic
Speaker 6: as the surveillance video was replayed on the evening news,
Speaker 6: a young girl in black leggings and a Hello Kitty
Speaker 6: t shirt skipping alone through the mobile home park park
Speaker 6: where she lived. Her bouncing steps carried her quickly across
Speaker 6: the screen and beyond the camera's view. Just two weeks
Speaker 6: after she celebrated her eighth birthday, Sandra Cantu disappeared. Within days.
Speaker 6: Panic gave way to horror when investigators report that Sandra's neighbor,
Speaker 6: twenty eight year old Melissa Huckabee had been arrested in
Speaker 6: charge with the rape and murder of the young girl.
Speaker 6: Sandra's death at the hands of a trusted adult female
Speaker 6: sent a powerful message to parents everywhere. The days of
Speaker 6: warning against stranger danger are long gone, having been replaced
Speaker 6: by an even darker era where stereotypes no longer exist
Speaker 6: and families can never be sure who exactly to trust.
Speaker 6: The book that we're profiling this evening is Searching for Sandra,
Speaker 6: the Story behind the Disappearance of Sandra Cantu, with my
Speaker 6: special guest, journalist and author Stacy Dietrich. Welcome to the program,
Speaker 6: and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Stacy Dietrich, Hi, Dan,
Speaker 6: thank you so much for having me on. Well, thank
Speaker 6: you very much. This is I've been doing this for
Speaker 6: a little over three years now. This isn't and this
Speaker 6: is a unique story. Even though we've probably covered everything,
Speaker 6: this is quite unique. And I think obviously this story
Speaker 6: was huge in America and worldwide. Almost everybody can relate
Speaker 6: to this, and you've brought this story home with this
Speaker 6: fascinating book. So let's start off with just a little bit.
Speaker 6: I think it's important. Maybe you could tell us a
Speaker 6: little bit about your background, because I said journalists and author,
Speaker 6: but give us a little bit about your background that
Speaker 6: we will see a little bit later is very important
Speaker 6: to this.
Speaker 4: Well. Actually, Van, I've been in law enforcement for twenty
Speaker 4: one years. I'm currently a deputy sheriff at the Richmond
Speaker 4: County Sheriff's Office in Mansfield, Ohio. I'm a former detective
Speaker 4: that specialized in sexual assault crimes. You know, I'm currently
Speaker 4: on the job. This this was a story basically I
Speaker 4: started writing about five years ago and actually started out
Speaker 4: in fiction because of my background. Essentially, what had happened
Speaker 4: is when my agent was shopping you know, my fiction
Speaker 4: series around, they were coming back and saying, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: she's a police officer. You know, can we get her
Speaker 4: to do you know, these specific cases? You know, it
Speaker 4: would be great to be coming from an aspect of
Speaker 4: somebody who knows how the investigations work and and whatnot.
Speaker 4: And that's kind of how I ended up down this path,
Speaker 4: this particular book, the Standard Cantu case. What had happened
Speaker 4: is I had wrote another true crime that's actually coming
Speaker 4: out after this one. It's called Have You Seen Me?
Speaker 4: And it's a compilation of the nation's most prolific child
Speaker 4: murders and abduction dating back to the eighteen hundreds. It's
Speaker 4: a compilation of those cases that have really changed our
Speaker 4: laws and tightened our child abduction laws and whatnot. And
Speaker 4: you know, I just have to touch on that because
Speaker 4: just some crazy stuff that you know, personally I didn't
Speaker 4: even know about, was you know, every day you hear
Speaker 4: about child abductions and people saying, you know, this world
Speaker 4: is so crazy, it's not like it used to be. Well,
Speaker 4: you know, there are cases that preceded Limberg, the Limburg
Speaker 4: baby abduction and murder, which people say, oh, that was
Speaker 4: the crime of the century. Well, you know, there was
Speaker 4: actually a case thirty years prior to the Lindberg baby
Speaker 4: abduction and murder that just put this nation at a standstill,
Speaker 4: and even overseas in Europe. It actually involved you know,
Speaker 4: the circus promoter P. T. Barnum and just just amazing that,
Speaker 4: you know, even back then, when it comes to our children,
Speaker 4: you know, our children are off limits no matter what.
Speaker 4: And you know, it has been that way since the
Speaker 4: dawn of time and it continues to be this way.
Speaker 4: But that particular book was was just this elevation and
Speaker 4: escalation of all these child abduction and murders that changed laws. Well, essentially,
Speaker 4: I had included the Sandra can suit case in that
Speaker 4: book because it was literally deemed a statistical anomaly by
Speaker 4: the They literally could not go back in history and
Speaker 4: find one case where a female solely, you know, without
Speaker 4: the aid of a boyfriend or conspiring with her boyfriend
Speaker 4: or whatever. But a female solely abducted a child, raped her,
Speaker 4: and brutally murdered her. They had nothing to compare this to.
Speaker 4: So I included that case in the book. And what
Speaker 4: had happened is when my agents submitted the Happy semi book,
Speaker 4: the publisher came back and said, yeah, we'll do that,
Speaker 4: but we would like her to write an entire book
Speaker 4: on the Can two case. At that time, the Can
Speaker 4: two case was really gathering steam. It was, you know,
Speaker 4: it was bouncing off Casey Anthony. It was, you know,
Speaker 4: constantly in the media. Melissa had been arrested, and people
Speaker 4: just couldn't figure out. I mean, at that time, you know,
Speaker 4: I've appeared as a consultant, you know, law enforcement analyst
Speaker 4: on CNN and Fox News and h and you know,
Speaker 4: even myself at the time along with the other talking heads,
Speaker 4: were like, there's no way she did this by herself,
Speaker 4: this with boyfriend motivated. You know, maybe she had a
Speaker 4: boyfriend that was a sex defender and she's covering for him.
Speaker 4: You know, we were all making these outlandish excuses when
Speaker 4: ultimately all of us were wrong.
Speaker 6: Now let's segue back for our audience because we've revealed
Speaker 6: a little bit here for those that have not known
Speaker 6: about the Sandra Cantoon. We've got fans everywhere in the world,
Speaker 6: so their people certainly have been listening, and so they
Speaker 6: don't really know. So take us back and set the
Speaker 6: stage and tell us what Tracy, California was like. And
Speaker 6: we're just talking about two thousand and eight, and so
Speaker 6: we'll just go back to before December one, two thousand
Speaker 6: and eight. But tell us it's a population of about
Speaker 6: eighty thousand according to the records. Tell us sixty miles
Speaker 6: east of I believe of San Francisco. Tell us about Tracy, California.
Speaker 6: What kind of community is it, what's it known for,
Speaker 6: what's it typically feel like? Set the sort of stage
Speaker 6: for us for this.
Speaker 4: Please, well, I was you know, I had I guess
Speaker 4: a different picture of Tracy before I got there. You
Speaker 4: look at a town of eighty thousand people, which is
Speaker 4: pretty significant, you know, of a suburb. It's actually a
Speaker 4: suburb of Stockton, California, which we've just recently seen in
Speaker 4: the news that is the first city in the country
Speaker 4: to file bankruptcy. But Tracy is extremely different than Stockton.
Speaker 4: You know, I expected a bigger city feel, where in fact,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, we will staying in San Francisco
Speaker 4: and drove an hour east into the Central Valley, so
Speaker 4: it's just, you know, nothing but brown hills and windmills
Speaker 4: and then you finally come into like civilization again, and
Speaker 4: here's Tracy, and it really has this small town feel
Speaker 4: to it. And I didn't expect that with a city
Speaker 4: that had a population of that, but it really is
Speaker 4: a very quiet, small town feel. They just had a
Speaker 4: brand new police chief come in and I think Chief
Speaker 4: Season was a police chief somewhere in Kansas and had
Speaker 4: only been the chief of police in Tracy just a
Speaker 4: few short months before Sandraw Cantu was kidnapped. And you know,
Speaker 4: Tracy was a very quiet community. You know, they definitely
Speaker 4: have their share of crime, but for the most part,
Speaker 4: nothing significant. And in the months leading up to the
Speaker 4: disappearance of Sandra Cantwo. They took a one two three
Speaker 4: punch like no department in the world could ever prepare
Speaker 4: them for sure.
Speaker 6: So what happened on December first, two thousand and eight
Speaker 6: to shake up the police just for the beginning, just
Speaker 6: the beginning of some really very dark days, and tells
Speaker 6: about what happened on December first, two thousand and eight
Speaker 6: the Shackled Boy, Yes, the Shackled Boy case.
Speaker 4: Essentially, and we saw that that was a high profile
Speaker 4: you know, that appeared on the news, but he was
Speaker 4: kind of scratching their head. And when it happened is
Speaker 4: a local fitness gyms. You know, they're going about their
Speaker 4: day to day operations and out of the blue, this
Speaker 4: boy that they thought was like ten years old comes
Speaker 4: running in there, completely amaziated, and he's got shackles, he's
Speaker 4: in his underwear, he's filthy, handcuffs and shackles on him
Speaker 4: and he runs into this gym screaming for fault. And
Speaker 4: what had happened ultimately is he was older than that,
Speaker 4: but due to the emaciation, you know, these people thought
Speaker 4: this was was a little boy, and through Tracy's investigative efforts,
Speaker 4: they tracked where this boy was being held. I'm sorry, Dan,
Speaker 4: I'm trying to get my foggy memory back. Basically was
Speaker 4: my own book, but I think believe he was a runaway.
Speaker 4: But he was picked up by a couple on the
Speaker 4: highway and they essentially went back and helped him captive
Speaker 4: and tortured and starved this kid for months. And you know,
Speaker 4: the Tracy Police department obviously just just couldn't even believe
Speaker 4: the story. They were like, no, this doesn't happen here.
Speaker 4: And when they eventually located the home that he had
Speaker 4: been held in, and the conditions were just utterly ranted.
Speaker 4: They just had never up until that point for them,
Speaker 4: they just had never seen anything like that. It was
Speaker 4: a really horrific case.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was Michael Luther Schumacher and his wife Kelly
Speaker 6: Lane Low thirteen counts. They starved him, forced him to
Speaker 6: drink alcohol, do drugs, beat him with belts and baseball bats,
Speaker 6: and stabbed him and burned him and shackled him to
Speaker 6: a fireplace for eighteen months. Now, this is very very unusual.
Speaker 6: This is not typical for anywhere. So this is an
Speaker 6: amazing story. And just when that's not just December two
Speaker 6: thousand and eight. And then we have in March again
Speaker 6: something that really close to home as a law enforcement person,
Speaker 6: tell us about and tell us and introduced to Tony
Speaker 6: Sheneman too, because he's very central figure in this as well. Wow,
Speaker 6: he is an internal affairs, investigation and media media relations,
Speaker 6: so tell us about him please.
Speaker 4: He is and he is no less than an amazing,
Speaker 4: amazing person. And you know, I just want to throw
Speaker 4: out there that the Tradesy Police Department in the San
Speaker 4: Joaquin District Attorney's Office is really one of the most
Speaker 4: impeccable law enforcement agencies I have ever come across. They.
Speaker 4: You know, I can't speak highly enough. They were so
Speaker 4: cooperative with me. They are so professional, they are so thorough,
Speaker 4: and they're extremely good at what they do, you know.
Speaker 4: And I've obviously dealt with many law enforcement agencies through
Speaker 4: my career, but I was just very intrigued by them.
Speaker 4: But Sergeant Sheneman is the public information officer, and you know,
Speaker 4: we as cops, you know, we all band together every
Speaker 4: year and do some fun stuff or whatever. And on
Speaker 4: this particular day, they did the Polar Bear or was
Speaker 4: it the special Olympics. Something was it. The post.
Speaker 6: Was the polar Bear after that, and we do that.
Speaker 4: Here which essentially to raise money for cherry. You stripped
Speaker 4: down to your swe suit when it's cold, and you
Speaker 4: go jump to the lake. And they he had stated,
Speaker 4: you know, they had participated that in that for years.
Speaker 4: Went back to their hotel room and were cold and tired,
Speaker 4: and their phone started ringing, and you know this this
Speaker 4: was the night of the Oakland police murders where basically
Speaker 4: four Oakland police officers lost their lives from a rope shooter,
Speaker 4: which is that time, this is of course, prior to
Speaker 4: Christopher Dorner, was the largest mass shooting of police officers
Speaker 4: in California history. And they immediately packed their bags and
Speaker 4: fled back to Tracy because you know a lot of
Speaker 4: you know police officers you know in San Francisco, Bay Area,
Speaker 4: Oakland and whatever, and it's no different here, you know,
Speaker 4: in the Columbus Cincinnati area. Those the cities are expensive,
Speaker 4: cities are expensive to live in, and cops, you know,
Speaker 4: notoriously do not make a lot of money. So police
Speaker 4: officers tend to go to you know, outer suburbs as
Speaker 4: much as an hour hour and a half away to
Speaker 4: make the lifestyle that they can you know, keep up with.
Speaker 4: So one of the slain Oakland officers was Sergeant Mark Dunakan,
Speaker 4: who happened to be a neighbor of Sergeant Showmen, and
Speaker 4: you know he was devastated. You know, they had coached
Speaker 4: soccer together with their kids and whenever, so, uh start
Speaker 4: at Sheneman was was a big part in planning Sergeant
Speaker 4: Dunagan's funeral. You know, they have this huge procession from
Speaker 4: Oakland to Tracy, which, like I said, is about an hour.
Speaker 4: And the irony of this whole thing is you've got
Speaker 4: the shackle boy and on the day of Sergeant Mark
Speaker 4: Dunakan's funeral, you know, you've got half the city of
Speaker 4: Tracy lining the streets to the Tracy Mausoleum for this huge,
Speaker 4: huge funeral procession of this plane officer. It was literally
Speaker 4: during the time of Sergeant Dunakan's funeral is the same
Speaker 4: day and time that Sandra Cantu was taken.
Speaker 6: Now you say, it was around four pm that afternoon.
Speaker 6: So while the city is lined up, while this sad
Speaker 6: chapter in Tracy history is unfolding and not unfolding, it's
Speaker 6: this as a funeral and the memorial. Sandra Canto, just
Speaker 6: a little past eight years old, is playing with friends
Speaker 6: in the mobile park she had. She was obedient girl
Speaker 6: and the rule was not to go outside the mobile park.
Speaker 6: But she had told her mother, Maria Chavez, that she
Speaker 6: was going to go to a neighbor's house. It was
Speaker 6: a new girls in the neighborhood and in the new home,
Speaker 6: and she was gonna go over there, but her mother
Speaker 6: told her, make sure you're back for dinner. So we're
Speaker 6: talking about four pm. Take it from there. She tell
Speaker 6: us a little bit about.
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Speaker 6: Sandra Cantoo. She's living with quite a few family members.
Speaker 6: Tell us a little bit about Sandrakcantoo and her family
Speaker 6: and what was going on that day.
Speaker 4: Well, typically, you know, Standard lived with her grandparents, her mother,
Speaker 4: and her brothers and sisters in a trailer park which
Speaker 4: literally literally is a stone's throw from the mausoleum which
Speaker 4: is where Sergeant Dunakan was interred and ultimately Sandra herself.
Speaker 4: She could have walked to the front of the trailer
Speaker 4: park and literally probably watched this procession go down. But
Speaker 4: on that particular day, Sandra, her grandfather typically picked her
Speaker 4: up from school, which wasn't far away. On that day,
Speaker 4: she came home she had a snack of macaronie cheese,
Speaker 4: which I believe is very significant. And Sandra was known
Speaker 4: in the park as being a very outgoing, friendly little girl.
Speaker 4: People would comment that, you know, they'd be out doing
Speaker 4: yartwork and Sandra would come skipping along and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, can I help you water your plants or
Speaker 4: do this? And I hate to say that there was
Speaker 4: all almost a sadness to it, but that was relayed
Speaker 4: to me from some people that they felt that, you know,
Speaker 4: being there were so many family members in the trailer
Speaker 4: that Sandra just wanted to get out and you know,
Speaker 4: talk to people and be social with people. And ultimately,
Speaker 4: as they're nearing the mausoleum to Bury Sergeant Dune again
Speaker 4: is when the video of Sandra skipping down the street
Speaker 4: was shot. And that's significant because Sandra's grandfather, they had
Speaker 4: had some issues with vandalism or whatnot, so he hadn't
Speaker 4: installed surveillance cameras on the front of their trailer. The
Speaker 4: last thing we see of Sandra is she is literally
Speaker 4: smiling and she's skipping down her road right in front
Speaker 4: of her own home as if she's going home. And
Speaker 4: then to the right something distracts her and she years
Speaker 4: off to the right and leaves the frame, and obviously
Speaker 4: to the right is Melissa Huckabee's trailer. Melissa Huxby livery
Speaker 4: across the street.
Speaker 6: Yeah, now, tell us about Melissa Huckabee. This is an
Speaker 6: interesting background as well. There's her grandparents. She lives with
Speaker 6: her grandparents as well. Tell us about the religious connection
Speaker 6: here in the church. Tell us about Melissa Huckabee. She's
Speaker 6: at that age at that time, twenty six. I believe
Speaker 6: her twenty six.
Speaker 4: I think she's twenty eight. But yeah, Melissa lived with
Speaker 4: her grandparents, who her grandfather happened to be a pastor
Speaker 4: at a Baptist church which literally sat next door to
Speaker 4: the trailer park. And Melissa didn't have a job, but
Speaker 4: frequently went, you know, to the church on Sundays and
Speaker 4: taught the kids for Sunday School. Her daughter was five
Speaker 4: at the time of the murder. And Melissa had a really,
Speaker 4: really shaky history up until then. She was, you know,
Speaker 4: constantly getting fired from jobs. She was having huge relationship problems.
Speaker 4: Whenever she would tend to date a man, she would
Speaker 4: ultimately file a civil protection order claiming he was abusing her.
Speaker 4: She had actually gone into criminal justice and did a
Speaker 4: ride along with the Tracy Police Department. So that's pretty ironic. Yes,
Speaker 4: she was a suspect in an arson down in Orange
Speaker 4: County where she has lived. And something really significant to
Speaker 4: me that the investigating detective Tim Bauer said was that
Speaker 4: Melissa could not and would not be in a three
Speaker 4: party relationship. She would not do it. If she dated
Speaker 4: a guy and he had the best friend that he
Speaker 4: hung out with, you know, she would put the kebash
Speaker 4: on that. If it didn't go her way, then she
Speaker 4: would start causing problems and founding restraining orders. And you
Speaker 4: know her ex husband with even their own child, Johnny Huckabee,
Speaker 4: she didn't like the attention given to their own daughter, Madison,
Speaker 4: and just just very strange, you know. Like I said,
Speaker 4: she accused the police officer of raving her, which turned
Speaker 4: out to be completely unfounded. Melissa had to be the
Speaker 4: center of attention in any circumstance that she was in,
Speaker 4: whether work, whether the trailer park, no matter what, it
Speaker 4: had to be about Melissa, and you know if it wasn't,
Speaker 4: you know, there were consequences to pay.
Speaker 6: Was there any psychiatric evaluation, Was there any terms in
Speaker 6: a mental facility. Was she ever diagnosed with any was
Speaker 6: she under any prescription from any amount of time? Tell
Speaker 6: us about that, if any background was.
Speaker 4: I believe that she at one point And this is terrible.
Speaker 4: The author is going to question the reader. Dan help
Speaker 4: me out. Since she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and
Speaker 4: regularly taking meds. But she had, you know, things where
Speaker 4: she would close farm herself and swallow razor bit blades
Speaker 4: and be hospitalized. And you know what was really significant
Speaker 4: is all these you know, red flags popped up after
Speaker 4: she graduated high school, and you know, I talked to
Speaker 4: her family and they were very like, well, we would
Speaker 4: have never had a million years thought or saw this coming.
Speaker 4: And it's like, really, you know all these and I
Speaker 4: actually get into extreme detail in the book on prior
Speaker 4: to circumstances where Melissa has shown, you know, clearly that
Speaker 4: she's unstable, and her parents, basically because of her instability,
Speaker 4: shipped her up to Tracy to live with her grandparents.
Speaker 4: So we knew something was wrong with her. They knew,
Speaker 4: you know, and even to keep her own child with her.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not a grandparent, but I have daughters,
Speaker 4: and you know, seriously, if I would ever God forbid
Speaker 4: see one of my children as adults behaving in the
Speaker 4: manner that she would. I would do whatever I could
Speaker 4: to get my grandchild. And their solution to this was
Speaker 4: two ships Melissa to her grandparents trailer in Tracy, California.
Speaker 6: Okay, let's go back now, because there's a little thing
Speaker 6: missing all the drama. What happens to the to Maria
Speaker 6: Schevs and the family, the grandparents, the brothers and the sisters,
Speaker 6: and then the entire community, the friends and everyone that
Speaker 6: they know, and then everyone the audience becomes part of
Speaker 6: the grieving family. Will say of sorts, now, tell us
Speaker 6: about four pm. She was supposed to be in for dinner,
Speaker 6: come home for dinner. What happens? She just doesn't come
Speaker 6: home for dinner. So then what happens? Who goes out?
Speaker 6: What happens? Exactly? Give us the chronological order of events
Speaker 6: after four pm or so?
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, if she leaves, and you know, she goes
Speaker 4: up like she did every day. It was, you know,
Speaker 4: kind of a routine. And she's up down at one trailer,
Speaker 4: they see her and you know, just does her a
Speaker 4: little social thing that she does. And people always remembered
Speaker 4: Sandra fondly because, like I touched on before, she was
Speaker 4: just a very happy little girl and just wanted to
Speaker 4: talk to people and interact with people. And at that
Speaker 4: point she was supposed to be back for dinner. I
Speaker 4: believe it was around six fish and she didn't show up.
Speaker 4: And at that point, I believe it was Sandra's siblings
Speaker 4: went out looking for her and ultimately did not find her.
Speaker 4: At that point, Maria Chavez makes the nine one one
Speaker 4: call to the Tracy Police Department that her daughter is missing.
Speaker 4: Anytime we have missing children, we are extremely diligent in
Speaker 4: our response time and first and foremost, and I can't
Speaker 4: tell you how many times that I've done this. We
Speaker 4: searched the house literally, laundry baskets, cover whatever, we and
Speaker 4: I just want to throw this out there. I a
Speaker 4: good friend of mine and a fellow deputy was working
Speaker 4: that day and we got dispatched to him as some
Speaker 4: child and it turned out to be his house. Imagine
Speaker 4: him driving home, you know, he about rest and we
Speaker 4: were all going through that home with a fine tooth
Speaker 4: comb for twenty minutes and couldn't find this little girl.
Speaker 4: There is a pond nearby. I mean, he is just sobbing,
Speaker 4: broke down, sobbing, and one of the deputies, you know,
Speaker 4: there's the playroom with all these dolls lying around, and
Speaker 4: she was just a little bitty thing, I think a
Speaker 4: year and a half at the time. And finally when
Speaker 4: the deputies walked in the playroom and looked down and
Speaker 4: was like, oh my God, said the love of God,
Speaker 4: she's asleep on the floor, we all thought she was
Speaker 4: a all I mean, but that's how tricky it can
Speaker 4: get with the missing children. But ultimately, and in Sandra's case,
Speaker 4: you know, they did what they were supposed to do.
Speaker 4: They showed up, they checked the trailer. The bad thing
Speaker 4: is is what the detective said to me, And this
Speaker 4: is true and people may not like that I say this,
Speaker 4: but he said, you could swing a bat in that
Speaker 4: trailer park and hit a pedophile or somebody with child pornography.
Speaker 4: And that kind of amped up the investigation, kind of
Speaker 4: heightened it specifically because Sandra was not in her home,
Speaker 4: not in any in the friends that she had been in,
Speaker 4: had never not shown up before. It was completely out
Speaker 4: of character. So basically, you know, at the time, the
Speaker 4: first responders, the uniform patrolmen are searching this trailer park
Speaker 4: or talking to Sandra's mom and whatnot. And you know
Speaker 4: what I write in the book was Sergeant Tony Schenneman,
Speaker 4: the PIO that has helped organized Sergeant Dunnakan's funeral, was
Speaker 4: that he was exhausted, you know, from the shackle boy
Speaker 4: case to the funeral that same day, literally just came
Speaker 4: home and just peeled his clothes off and fell into bed.
Speaker 4: And it was just a matter of hours that his
Speaker 4: phone rang and it was one of the officers that said,
Speaker 4: I think we've got a problem here, and he said,
Speaker 4: you know, you just lay there and you're exhausted, and
Speaker 4: you think this just can't happen like this, you know,
Speaker 4: three times in a row. And he got out of
Speaker 4: bed and went to the scene and realized, my god,
Speaker 4: you know, this is this is bad, this is really bad.
Speaker 4: And it was just that constant chain of events that
Speaker 4: this department, in this community we had gone through so
Speaker 4: back back that everybody was just you know, totally un
Speaker 4: heightened alert.
Speaker 6: Now we talk about you talk extensively in the book
Speaker 6: that normally within twelve hours the cases are usually resolved
Speaker 6: one way or another, and with luckily, unfortunately a lot
Speaker 6: of these kids are found within the twelve hours, but
Speaker 6: consequently as a result after twelve hours, it's the police
Speaker 6: are not looking at this very optimistically. Now, you say
Speaker 6: the search was extensive, and you touched on the sex
Speaker 6: offenders that were again police said there's a bunch of
Speaker 6: them in this trailer park alone here. So tell us
Speaker 6: how extensive this trial, I mean, this search was you
Speaker 6: talk about you went through all the sex offenders, then
Speaker 6: you went down the possible pathways, the school pathways. Give
Speaker 6: us how extensive this search really was.
Speaker 4: Well, like I said, this community was amazing. I'm not
Speaker 4: gonna lie and say I don't know that that would
Speaker 4: happen here. It was like instantaneous that the word got out.
Speaker 4: There was a huge mix up of an email or
Speaker 4: a fact sent to local media. Apparently the police department
Speaker 4: had an old fax number, so the media didn't get
Speaker 4: it right away. But essentially word about spread through Tracy
Speaker 4: and you had volunteers coming out by the hundreds, And
Speaker 4: essentially what happens in a missing kit case is like
Speaker 4: I said, you will initially do a full thorough search
Speaker 4: of the home, and you will that you that your
Speaker 4: ground zero, and you take it from there. You know,
Speaker 4: any friends or anybody se defenders. You know, if I'm
Speaker 4: an officer and there's a sex offender three tours down
Speaker 4: from a missing child, I'm going to call their probation officer.
Speaker 4: Because probation officers don't need search warrants. They can search
Speaker 4: the house. I'm going to say, give me a permision.
Speaker 4: That's all there is to it. But most sex offenders,
Speaker 4: if they literally aren't, they're like, come on in. You know,
Speaker 4: I didn't do anything. They're scared, you know, They're like,
Speaker 4: come on in, stretch my house. I didn't do anything.
Speaker 4: And then, of course you've got so many irrigation ponds
Speaker 4: and canals and things around that particular area, which is
Speaker 4: always a huge concern for law enforcement. And you know,
Speaker 4: Melissa was not even a thought. And those those first
Speaker 4: three days they were searching, there was at one point,
Speaker 4: I believe one of the volunteers found a small T
Speaker 4: shirt in the landfill and they really started to focus
Speaker 4: in on a landfill. But you know what, ultimately, Melissa,
Speaker 4: you know, being wanting to be the center of attention
Speaker 4: that she is, she you know, jumped herself right in
Speaker 4: there as usual and drew attention to herself. So but
Speaker 4: it was just unbelievable, unbelievable. They had search and rescues
Speaker 4: from other counties and national search and rescues, and everybody
Speaker 4: was basically searching for Sandra. You know that that full city,
Speaker 4: one way or another took an active part and looking
Speaker 4: for this little girl.
Speaker 6: Now, on April sixth, this Jose Louis Louis Franco discovered
Speaker 6: a suitcase in one of the ponds that you were
Speaker 6: just speaking about, and it contained the suitcase. And then
Speaker 6: he was working at a dairy farm. So tell us
Speaker 6: what they discover.
Speaker 4: On April sixth, basically, and I have pictures of this
Speaker 4: farm in the book, but you know, I personally, you know,
Speaker 4: went out there and stood it's the bank where her
Speaker 4: remains were found. It is so incredibly secluded. It's very peaceful,
Speaker 4: and obviously since that happened, just this eeriness, you know,
Speaker 4: standing out there. It's about a mile and a half
Speaker 4: from the trailer park, and you've got these irrigation ponds
Speaker 4: that have you know, manure and methane and and and whatnot.
Speaker 4: So the dye teams could not search these irrigation ponds,
Speaker 4: you know, for totally put risks to the officers divers,
Speaker 4: but especially he was driving, you know, he he would
Speaker 4: check the ponds and do his daily duties, and he
Speaker 4: happened to see something in the middle of one particular
Speaker 4: irrigation pond. He had been watching the news, obviously, he
Speaker 4: had been, Like I said, the whole community, the whole
Speaker 4: nation was aware of what was going on. He was
Speaker 4: concerned for his children. He actually said he would not
Speaker 4: allow his children to play in the front yard ever
Speaker 4: since Sandra Cantu disappeared. And he was able to pull
Speaker 4: the suitcase to the banks. It was it was a large,
Speaker 4: you know, one of those larger suitcases, and it had
Speaker 4: you know, courts wrapped around it. And when he pulled
Speaker 4: it up, he was able to determine that, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: I his first thought was, oh God, I hope this
Speaker 4: little girl isn't in the suitcase. He immediately called authorities
Speaker 4: who went out there, and I'll tell you it was.
Speaker 4: It was a long time. And again just to reiterate
Speaker 4: how wonderful the Tracy Police Department is that you know,
Speaker 4: everybody wanted to, you know, open the suitcase, open the suitcase,
Speaker 4: but you know, they did their due diligence and they
Speaker 4: took their time and that's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 4: They processed that entire scene before that suitcase was even
Speaker 4: removed from the bank, and ultimately, you know, and tragically,
Speaker 4: the suitcase was transported to the San Joaquin County Corner's
Speaker 4: office and that is where it was opened, and that
Speaker 4: where it was that's where it was determined that it
Speaker 4: held the remains of Sandra Cantu.
Speaker 6: Now they were doing other things like looking at like
Speaker 6: you said, they had video surveillance just because of the
Speaker 6: grandfather had hooked up a video camera. After they have
Speaker 6: the body, they obviously they do the autopsy. Give us
Speaker 6: the chain of events that lead to Melissa's the discovery
Speaker 6: that Melissa will be a suspect, and is how do
Speaker 6: they make that connection from this evidence? Tell us how
Speaker 6: the police proceed from here.
Speaker 4: Well, like I said, Melissa pretty much inserted herself in
Speaker 4: the investigation. There was actually a memorial service with hundreds
Speaker 4: upon hundreds of people to the entrance of the trailer park,
Speaker 4: and that's what Before Sandra's body was bound, there were
Speaker 4: FBI agents and cops all over just observing the crowd.
Speaker 4: And there was literally no win that day. And Melissa
Speaker 4: low and before old finds a note just lying on
Speaker 4: the ground that said came to in suitcase at the
Speaker 4: Shaddy and Whitehall Road. Well, she runs up to an
Speaker 4: FBI agent absolutely hysterical. Oh my god, Oh my god,
Speaker 4: oh my god, look what I found. And obviously that
Speaker 4: was odd. What somebody just dropped this, you know, between
Speaker 4: two trailers. They wouldn't put it on a car or whatnot.
Speaker 4: So that piqued their interest a little bit. They went
Speaker 4: back and interviewed her, and ultimately Melissa had actually reported
Speaker 4: her suitcase stolen. She had said that she had this
Speaker 4: huge Eddie Bower suitcase in front of her house and
Speaker 4: it was stolen. And a reporter from the Tracy Press
Speaker 4: found out that she had reported this and called her
Speaker 4: and Melissa's like, oh yeah, that was my suitcase that
Speaker 4: was stolen. Well, little did she know up until this point,
Speaker 4: Melissa had already been Tracy police and FBI had already
Speaker 4: been had already wired Melissa's phone calls and were monitoring
Speaker 4: her phone calls. Also because she had swallowed razor blades
Speaker 4: and gone to the hospital. They also realized that in January.
Speaker 4: In January, three months before Sandra Pantu went and saying
Speaker 4: the same, a little girl had been drugged in that
Speaker 4: trailer park, and she had been with Melissa Huckabee, and ultimately,
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, the investigators were looking at the mother,
Speaker 4: that the kid accidentally gone into the mother's medication or whatnot,
Speaker 4: they called children's services. Melissa was never even questioned, even
Speaker 4: though he had said Melissa took me through McDonald's and
Speaker 4: got me a lotter and the water tasted funny, and
Speaker 4: that little girl had the same drugs in her system
Speaker 4: that Sandrew Sandra Cantu had flashed forward to the beginning
Speaker 4: of March, three weeks before Sandra Cantu was abducted and murdered.
Speaker 4: Melissa had a boyfriend by the name of Daniel Plowman,
Speaker 4: who ultimately broke up with her. She had asked him
Speaker 4: to meet her so they could discuss the nature of
Speaker 4: their relationships. The following morning, Daniel was found in his
Speaker 4: car in a parking lot and arrested for DUI. He
Speaker 4: was found to have these same drugs that the little
Speaker 4: girl in January had depends the day of the vines
Speaker 4: that he had an assistant and Sandra and two head
Speaker 4: in the system. Not remember anything, he remembered Melissa giving
Speaker 4: him something to drink, so you know, they start to
Speaker 4: pull all this together and ultimately a search on Melissa's
Speaker 4: computer after she was arrested. This was so premeditated. She
Speaker 4: had looked up waterways and ponds in San Joaquin County.
Speaker 4: She had researched the sex offenders in San Joaquin County.
Speaker 4: She had actually pulled up a CNN article of a
Speaker 4: father and I believe it was an Israel that murdered
Speaker 4: his child, put her in a suitcase, and jumped her
Speaker 4: in a pond. This was all on Melissa's computer. She
Speaker 4: was clearly planning looking for an alibi. I believe that
Speaker 4: the girl in January was a test case to see
Speaker 4: how the drugs would affect her when she drugged her
Speaker 4: seemed to be ex boyfriend Daniel Plowman at the beginning
Speaker 4: of March. That was her way of getting in on
Speaker 4: record that he had those drugs in his system. I
Speaker 4: believe that Melissa was trying to set up Daniel Plowman
Speaker 4: for Sandra's murder to get back at him because he
Speaker 4: broke up with her. And on top of all this,
Speaker 4: she hated Sandra. She hated her. Sandra represented everything that
Speaker 4: her daughter wasn't. Sandra was a beautiful little girl. She
Speaker 4: had nice clothes. She'd come over to play with Melissa's daughter,
Speaker 4: Madison and say, oh, you know, look at my nice
Speaker 4: new shirt. Madison was very introverted. Was not a cute
Speaker 4: little girl. I hate to say that. And Melissa hated her,
Speaker 4: she really hates hit her. And that is just my
Speaker 4: opinion that she had planned all this from January. She
Speaker 4: wanted to take She wanted to get rid of Sandra
Speaker 4: and blame Daniel in the process. And she figured it
Speaker 4: was a double bonus get rid of both of them
Speaker 4: because they both wronged her in some way. That's what
Speaker 4: I believe.
Speaker 6: Now I'm listening to your your theory, and you're giving
Speaker 6: credible evidence, especially with the what you've outlined in the book,
Speaker 6: and what what did you just mention? What I wanted
Speaker 6: to ask was is do you believe that was why
Speaker 6: she committed these sex offenses against Sandra to sort of
Speaker 6: lead police away from again like you say this, this
Speaker 6: never The FBI has no FBI has no record of
Speaker 6: someone abducting, sexually assaulting, and then murdering a child. And
Speaker 6: it's you know, it's quite heinous. What the sexual assault
Speaker 6: with a rolling pin on this young girl. Do you
Speaker 6: think that's that would account for these sex offenses or
Speaker 6: did you find did the police find any evidence with
Speaker 6: the computer checks that she had any predilection for being
Speaker 6: a sex offender herself.
Speaker 4: Now, there is a disagreement between the district attorney and
Speaker 4: the lead investigator on that the district attorney believed that
Speaker 4: Melissa had a proclivity towards little girls. I agree with
Speaker 4: the investigating detective absolutely not. This was merely a ploy
Speaker 4: to make it look like it was a man, and
Speaker 4: I believe ultimately to direct it Old Dexa Daniel Plowman
Speaker 4: one of the things that Melissa said, because, like I said,
Speaker 4: she had taken criminal justice classes and it was just
Speaker 4: so off the wall. She admitted to murdering Sandra, but
Speaker 4: she said, standing in court in front of Sandra's mother,
Speaker 4: said I never sexually assaulted her. And told the detective
Speaker 4: when they were invest their interviewing her, she goes, yes,
Speaker 4: I accidentally killed her, but I never rachel touched her.
Speaker 4: That's gross. Like Melissa knows that child rapists are the
Speaker 4: lowest of society, so she didn't want to be thought
Speaker 4: of as dirty as a child rapist, but she's okay
Speaker 4: to admit that she quote accidentally murdered Sandra. And by
Speaker 4: accidentally meaning Sandra's in a suitcase laying there unconscious, Melissa
Speaker 4: wrote because she crawled in there. Melissa was claiming that
Speaker 4: Sandra came over crawled in the suitcase to scare Melissa
Speaker 4: didn't know she was in there. Drove to the church,
Speaker 4: brought the suitcase in, and saw Sandra there suffocate, and
Speaker 4: Melissa gets so upset. She drinks this concoction that she's
Speaker 4: given two other people of the benzo diazatine with water
Speaker 4: and spits and it somehow lands in Sandra's mouth. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's so ridiculous. One of the things that I picked
Speaker 4: up on is that Melissa's grandmother found a rag in
Speaker 4: the laundry room the night Sandra went missing, and it
Speaker 4: appeared to be vomit with like macaroni noodles, And I
Speaker 4: thought that was very interesting because Sandra had eaten macaroni
Speaker 4: and cheese for her after school snack. And to this day,
Speaker 4: the lead detective in the DA they don't know if
Speaker 4: exactly what transpired or how Melissa got Sandra to the
Speaker 4: church or whatever. But I honestly think that Melissa probably
Speaker 4: had this rag soaked with these drugs and put it
Speaker 4: over Sandra's face and to where she vomited on the
Speaker 4: rag before putting her on the suitcase and transporting her
Speaker 4: to the church. But you know she also had Sandra
Speaker 4: had a noose around her neck. She was sexually assaulted.
Speaker 4: You know, it was so brutal. It was so brutal,
Speaker 4: and this woman she wouldn't take responsibility for. She actually
Speaker 4: stated that she had contemplated putting the suitcase with Sandra's
Speaker 4: body in front of Sandra's trailer where her mother would
Speaker 4: find it.
Speaker 6: What did the church have to do with this? What
Speaker 6: was her idea there or what was actually what was
Speaker 6: the church connection?
Speaker 4: Melissa could be alone. She knew nobody was at the church.
Speaker 4: She had the keys. People saw her across the street
Speaker 4: go in and apparently didn't think much of it. But
Speaker 4: you know, it was quiet. She knew she wouldn't be disturbed.
Speaker 4: She cuts the strings off the blinds inside the church.
Speaker 4: She used those to tie up the suitcase. Of course,
Speaker 4: the rolling pin in the church she used to sexually
Speaker 4: assault Sandra. You know, she had a news tying around
Speaker 4: her neck that came from the church. There was quite
Speaker 4: a bit of evidence in the church this is where
Speaker 4: it transpired. And generally I think she took her there
Speaker 4: because she could be alone.
Speaker 6: There was no indication that she was using a church
Speaker 6: to do through some kind of satanic element to it
Speaker 6: at all. Now again we're talking about a kind of
Speaker 6: deluded person.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, she has obviously, but no, she went to
Speaker 4: the church because first of all, she had the keys,
Speaker 4: she knew nobody was supposed to be there or going
Speaker 4: to be there, and whatever it is that she has
Speaker 4: to do, she could do it and not be disturbed
Speaker 4: and you know, no one would see her doing it,
Speaker 4: you know, giving Sandra, you know, the benzo diazepines that
Speaker 4: she had in her system, and doing the sexual assault,
Speaker 4: and then you know, she actually pulled her pants back up,
Speaker 4: which was very significant. You know, genuinely, when you get
Speaker 4: into these violent child murder rapists, they don't bother to
Speaker 4: do that. And Melissa dressed her back up. So that
Speaker 4: was that was pretty significant in terms of you know,
Speaker 4: her thought process. She knows exactly what she was doing,
Speaker 4: and you know, even she goes out and dunks the
Speaker 4: suitcase and a local couple was down the road happened
Speaker 4: to be driving by, and they don't typically see cars
Speaker 4: out there. So the gentleman stops and you know, said
Speaker 4: are you okay or what are you doing out here?
Speaker 4: And you know, she was just as friendly as ever.
Speaker 4: She noticed a marine sticker in the back of this
Speaker 4: guan's car and says, oh, are you in the Marines?
Speaker 4: My brother's a marine. And just you know, she just
Speaker 4: dumps the body of an eight year old into a
Speaker 4: sewage pond, and that was her mentality, you know, But
Speaker 4: she's not very smart obviously, and you know, so this
Speaker 4: was a very very strong witness. Ultimately, Melissa had no
Speaker 4: other option but to take the plea deal of life
Speaker 4: in prison or you know, there's there's just no no
Speaker 4: way around it.
Speaker 6: Was the interview with the lady's name Wadsworth the reporter
Speaker 6: was that useful at all because she had again you say,
Speaker 6: she inserted herself into the investigation. But the the person
Speaker 6: from the Tracy Press, I guess I can't remember the newspaper, sorry,
Speaker 6: but that Wadsworth woman. Was that interview useful for police
Speaker 6: at all or for I should say, for prosecution now?
Speaker 4: And that that's that's kind of an interesting story because
Speaker 4: I figured it what doctor Philip, you know, through all
Speaker 4: my research, doctor phil Heraldo, they had all had her
Speaker 4: on like this reporter that broke open them on its
Speaker 4: the Hutby case. And I had actually interviewed her before
Speaker 4: the lead investigator and you know, she was claiming she
Speaker 4: tracked down Melissa. Melissa admitted that that was her suitcase
Speaker 4: and that she was in the hospital for swallowing razor
Speaker 4: blades and whatnot. And that's what led police to Melissa.
Speaker 4: How to be was her article that Melissa told her
Speaker 4: all this that came out in the newspaper the next day.
Speaker 4: And what was really interesting to me is when I
Speaker 4: interviewed the lead detective, he was pretty pretty negative about
Speaker 4: all that, which I thought was awesome. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 4: say it like it is, But he said, you know,
Speaker 4: this reporter actually went and said she did this and this.
Speaker 4: But by that time we had already had Melissa on
Speaker 4: a wire. So her conversation that she wrote about in
Speaker 4: this article was nothing but a hillabeans us. So there
Speaker 4: was some conflict going on there that you know, behind
Speaker 4: closed doors, that people weren't necessarily aware of. I wasn't
Speaker 4: aware of it, which kind of was a wow moment
Speaker 4: for me, you know, doing research in the books.
Speaker 6: What I found very very interesting too is again I
Speaker 6: always liked the personal aspect of people, including themselves in
Speaker 6: this story. And of course you were a character in
Speaker 6: this book as well, and a very strong character. And
Speaker 6: you talk about when you heard about the murder, and
Speaker 6: you were talking about when you were asked your expert
Speaker 6: opinion by TV and radio in radio and TV interviews,
Speaker 6: you were off and as like everyone else, you thought
Speaker 6: you were pretty convinced it was a male offender. Tell
Speaker 6: us a little quip that you have in your book
Speaker 6: about your daughter and your daughter kind of arguing with
Speaker 6: you and and and being ironic.
Speaker 4: Again, it was because you know, we had between Casey
Speaker 4: Anthony in this case. You know, we were all on
Speaker 4: the works, you know, giving our expert quote opinions, and
Speaker 4: they're like, well, you know Sandra was seeing uh Mail
Speaker 4: was seeing kissing Sandra at the pool, was somewhere before,
Speaker 4: and they really need to look at him. And you know,
Speaker 4: we're we're going, you know, going out there and what
Speaker 4: we're supposed to do. And the day Sandra's body was
Speaker 4: found and obviously my daughters know, you know, they watched
Speaker 4: me when I do commentating and stuff, and I was
Speaker 4: kind of in shock, you know, standing in my living room, like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I can't believe this. You know, I
Speaker 4: wish it would have been a better outcome, and this
Speaker 4: is upsetting account this poor little girl. And they had
Speaker 4: had initial reports that a light pickup truck with two
Speaker 4: males we're seen leaving the scene. And I was like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I hope they catch this monster or whatever.
Speaker 4: And my daughter was thirteen at the time, and she goes,
Speaker 4: you know how teenagers are with their attitudes. She's She's like,
Speaker 4: how do you know it's a he And I was like,
Speaker 4: what do you mean, how do I know? Of course
Speaker 4: it's a heat. She's well, you don't know that, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, of course it's a heat. What woman would
Speaker 4: do something this sick? She says, well, I think it
Speaker 4: could be a woman. I just think you don't know
Speaker 4: what you're talking about. You know, real smart at to
Speaker 4: be like it too. And the boys. She didn't let
Speaker 4: me live that down. You know, she's still but I'm like,
Speaker 4: you know what, good for you? Because I told her,
Speaker 4: I said, you know what we should have been thinking,
Speaker 4: like you do you know, I said, in law enforcement,
Speaker 4: we are so trained from point A to B to
Speaker 4: see to this, to this to this, and this is
Speaker 4: what we got to look for and blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: that our minds aren't completely open. And I'm the first
Speaker 4: to admit that. And that's why this book was so important.
Speaker 4: You know, the FBI, the law enforcement, everybody in San
Speaker 4: Joaquin was shocked because this does not fit the quote
Speaker 4: unquote profile. You know, this is not this is not
Speaker 4: how you're splits them in a crime. It's it was
Speaker 4: almost like being angry at Melissa. You shouldn't have done
Speaker 4: this because we weren't prepared for this. Does that make sense?
Speaker 6: Yeah? And and law enforcement couldn't have possibly What they
Speaker 6: realized is that it couldn't have possibly profiled her from
Speaker 6: other offenders' behavior because she's unique in that respect exactly.
Speaker 4: And you know, our training, we're constantly being trained, and
Speaker 4: when we're trained, this burns into our brain for ten
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five years, and we're unfortunately almost like robots
Speaker 4: in that regard. And I hope, I sincerely hope that
Speaker 4: this book not only ignorance, you know, to say, hey,
Speaker 4: you know that creepy pta mom that you think is creepy. Yeah,
Speaker 4: don't let your kid go down there and make takes.
Speaker 4: Let's use a little common sense because the days of
Speaker 4: the stranger dangerous are over. But in terms of law enforcement,
Speaker 4: I hope that this book also opens their eyes that
Speaker 4: we need to be trained differently, that we need to
Speaker 4: not focus on one particular race or profil and we
Speaker 4: need to learn to open our eyes. I know that
Speaker 4: that's happened in San Joaquin after this unfortunate case. I
Speaker 4: just hope that it picks up, you know, nationwide, the worldwide.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think too that the you know, we
Speaker 6: have sort of an idea of how serial killers are.
Speaker 6: And I know this has been an education for me.
Speaker 6: And every week I talk to somebody else and I
Speaker 6: get more of an understanding. I had Catherine Ramslin on
Speaker 6: last week and she said, you know, there's no real profile.
Speaker 6: You know, these people are very, very different. So it's
Speaker 6: to say it's this is this typical, and this is
Speaker 6: how you identify. It might look good on TV fiction,
Speaker 6: but in reality you might not want to jump to conclusions.
Speaker 6: That's all.
Speaker 4: And and really that's that's a very very telling statement
Speaker 4: because you know most parents have this image and that
Speaker 4: is in their brain of this nerdy looking guy with
Speaker 4: his shirt buttoned up to the collar, with coke bottled glasses,
Speaker 4: standing on the street corner holding a puppy. You know,
Speaker 4: that's the guy to be scared of because he's gonna
Speaker 4: snatch her kid. Well, guess what, you know, that's that's
Speaker 4: not it. You've got family members, you know. You know
Speaker 4: obviously in my job you see everything. Family members, cousins,
Speaker 4: you know, neighbors. It's just, look, we got to use
Speaker 4: common sense nowadays. You know, so many people are medicated.
Speaker 4: We've got a huge mental health issue. And it's just
Speaker 4: you know, as parents, like I said, Melissa was like that,
Speaker 4: and I say this in the book, like that obnoxious
Speaker 4: neighbor that when you see her coming, you don't answer
Speaker 4: the door and you hope she doesn't see you. That
Speaker 4: knows everybody's business. She's a little on the weird side.
Speaker 4: But you know, as a parent, if you you know,
Speaker 4: have a male or female or that principle that you
Speaker 4: think is a little weird and he calls and said,
Speaker 4: your kid missed the bus. I'll bring her home. Yeah no,
Speaker 4: I'm like my kids think I am like the most
Speaker 4: strictest crazy parent in the world. But you know what,
Speaker 4: you just have to be really diligent nowadays, and nobody
Speaker 4: says if you have to say that to.
Speaker 6: Yourself, So you're saying there's no real way of safeguarding
Speaker 6: yourself too, because we don't want to make it sound
Speaker 6: like this kid was just left running wild. But at
Speaker 6: the same time, when people moved the suburbs, we'll say
Speaker 6: whether it's a trailer park. We have somebody preconceived idea
Speaker 6: what trailer parks all are. But there's quite a bit
Speaker 6: of difference wherever you are and in terms of affluence.
Speaker 6: But the thing is, in a suburb, we might have
Speaker 6: the same idea, I mean, less so than years ago
Speaker 6: where people kind of hung around with each other in
Speaker 6: the neighborhood. We've gone past that. But again, I know
Speaker 6: what you're trying to warn against, But what exactly could
Speaker 6: people do other Again, you've you've just kind of scared
Speaker 6: the audience a little bit. But what as a people
Speaker 6: do you know?
Speaker 4: But look at the list this smart I mean there
Speaker 4: is a prime example of hey, and I don't mean
Speaker 4: to scare people, but her parents didn't do anything wrong. Ultimately,
Speaker 4: this guy crawled in home, I know and took her saying.
Speaker 4: With Polyclass, I tried very hard not to. And in
Speaker 4: the case of Polyclass and Elizabeth Smart, there was pretty
Speaker 4: much nothing, you know, that that could have prevented that.
Speaker 4: Sandra's case was a little different. I don't know how
Speaker 4: much helped me out, Dan. How do I say this
Speaker 4: nice supervision? All I'm saying is, you know, when my
Speaker 4: daughter was eighty, she was not allowed to run around
Speaker 4: the neighborhood. That just wasn't allowed, but specifically without me
Speaker 4: checking on her. And you know, like I said, you
Speaker 4: can't live your life in a shoebox. You can't be
Speaker 4: scared every day. All I'm saying is human beings were
Speaker 4: giving this amazing emotion or whatever it is called instinct.
Speaker 4: And as a parent, if something does not feel right
Speaker 4: to you as a parent, don't be embarrassed. Don't worry
Speaker 4: about hurting somebody's feelings. Trust your instincts. That's the bottom line.
Speaker 4: You know, I see people oh gosh, you know, I
Speaker 4: just didn't feel right about that. But I don't want
Speaker 4: to seem rude. Hey guess what, you know? Your child
Speaker 4: has one life, and if your instincts or your gut
Speaker 4: is telling you something's wrong or something's not right. Hey,
Speaker 4: feel free to go ahead and follow that, because you know,
Speaker 4: nine times out of ten you're probably right. And that's
Speaker 4: basically all I'm saying. I'm not saying, you know, my god,
Speaker 4: lock your kids in his room twenty four and seven,
Speaker 4: don't ever let him out. But just you know, as
Speaker 4: a parent, if something doesn't seem right to you, or
Speaker 4: somebody seems a little off to you, or you've got
Speaker 4: red flags popping up in your head, don't dismiss it.
Speaker 4: Don't dismiss it and say, oh, I'm just seeing teranoid.
Speaker 4: We live in a small town. Nobody does anything around here.
Speaker 4: Don't dismiss it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and there's only sing what I what I found.
Speaker 6: And again it's easy to blame after the fact. And
Speaker 6: I don't know the family situation. And I'm sure that
Speaker 6: we're loving, obviously loving people. But she's eight years old,
Speaker 6: and I know, I know that when I was young,
Speaker 6: my parents were my mother was overprotective but still protective,
Speaker 6: but overprotective, and my own daughter was again, you know,
Speaker 6: maybe you could call it sheltered, but eight years old
Speaker 6: is awfully young to be. You know, if it was
Speaker 6: your cousins, your sister, you know, family, and you knew
Speaker 6: that they were down the street, but new friends in
Speaker 6: the neighborhood and people in a trailer parking and she's
Speaker 6: only eight years old. I think that's probably.
Speaker 4: Not why Well, what spill funny about that is I
Speaker 4: look back at my childhood and my brother. I have
Speaker 4: an older brother, and during the summer, we left in
Speaker 4: the morning and literally did not come back until dark.
Speaker 4: No cell phones, our parents never checked on us. And
Speaker 4: I actually make fun of my parents. I'm like, really,
Speaker 4: you know, because a kidnapped, you guys are a horrible parents.
Speaker 4: We ran the neighborhood. I mean, it was crazy and
Speaker 4: there's just no way. I mean, my oldest daughter is seventeen.
Speaker 4: She has a driver's license, and she is literally allowed
Speaker 4: just to drive into town and back. She's not allowed.
Speaker 4: You know. When I got my driver's license, I was
Speaker 4: driving to Cleveland and Columbus life within a week. And
Speaker 4: with her, it's like, no, you're driving five my off
Speaker 4: to school, and in fact that's the esa. It's just
Speaker 4: you know, and my youngest is ten. You know, like
Speaker 4: I said, they think we're the worst parents in the world,
Speaker 4: but we're We're just doing what we do. You know,
Speaker 4: my husband's been a police officer for twenty three years.
Speaker 4: I've been doing it for twenty one year, and yeah,
Speaker 4: things are different, and you know, I don't know what
Speaker 4: to say. But you know, like I said, you know,
Speaker 4: basically it boils down to you at ay. Parents don't
Speaker 4: don't fall into the pressure of society and say, I
Speaker 4: don't want to feel rude. I don't want to come
Speaker 4: off as being paranoid. But if this person bothers me
Speaker 4: and they just give me that weird feeling, you know what, again,
Speaker 4: that's your child. Always fall on the air of safety,
Speaker 4: you know, don't if you offend somebody's gifts, what's so what?
Speaker 4: You know? So what? It's your child. You know, somebody
Speaker 4: messes with my kid, I'm coming out with things and
Speaker 4: claws and I'm sorry if somebody's infended like that. Luckily
Speaker 4: I have not come into that situation. But you know,
Speaker 4: it killed me that people they get this mentality, specifically
Speaker 4: in small towns where they're you know, in my job,
Speaker 4: you know, the home invasions and the robberies or whatever,
Speaker 4: and their doors are unlocked, and you know, one of
Speaker 4: the things I say to them is why are your
Speaker 4: doors a lot? We've never had any trouble around here.
Speaker 4: I've left my doors a lot for twenty five years.
Speaker 4: Well that's just dumb. And you know, when I go
Speaker 4: pick up my kids from school, I see these little
Speaker 4: eighty bitty kids like five years old walking home. The
Speaker 4: streets are walking on it's completely empty. And you know
Speaker 4: it's me being me, but I look and I'm thinking,
Speaker 4: oh my god, why are they You know, no, if
Speaker 4: somebody ran and snatched that little boy, no one would
Speaker 4: see anything. And those are the towns that it happens that.
Speaker 4: It's not the big cities when you see significant child abductions,
Speaker 4: you'll see a lot of them. Are these smaller towns
Speaker 4: where the police department is not necessarily educated or you know,
Speaker 4: not necessarily staff to where they should be, where these
Speaker 4: pedophiles and child molesters are able to blend in and
Speaker 4: plan and watch and whatever and go unnoticed. Those are
Speaker 4: the places that that tends to take place in. And
Speaker 4: that is what I really want to like drive home
Speaker 4: to people. You know, don't get complacent and think you
Speaker 4: live in a bubble.
Speaker 6: Yeah, those the old adage able small town this and
Speaker 6: small town that there's many reasons why people move to
Speaker 6: a small town, and it's not just because they can't
Speaker 6: handle the bi of the big city. So, like you say,
Speaker 6: these pedophiles are sometimes are driven out of city neighborhoods
Speaker 6: because people are a little more savvy, and sometimes they
Speaker 6: reside in small places because they can hide there and
Speaker 6: who knows they could be on the run for anyone.
Speaker 4: No, So.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's amazing. Well, this is an interesting interview and
Speaker 6: again a fantastic book Searching for Sandra The Case of
Speaker 6: Disappearance of Sandra Canto. You also have a website that
Speaker 6: people can visit you and I'm sure you're on Facebook
Speaker 6: as well, so maybe give us your website if people
Speaker 6: would like to check out other material that you do.
Speaker 6: You do fictional, you write fiction and then and also
Speaker 6: you have two other nonfiction books. I if I'm not correct, right,
Speaker 6: I have a fiction series.
Speaker 4: It's obviously a female detective protagonists and the books were
Speaker 4: actually some of them are based on cases that I've worked,
Speaker 4: and one the Devil Closet, actually is a serial child killer.
Speaker 4: But if you go to Stacy Dietrich and that's at
Speaker 4: c A C Y T I T T R I
Speaker 4: C H dot com. You can see my books there.
Speaker 4: I also have my memoirs Stumbling a Long Beat, which
Speaker 4: is my life as a female police officer. I grew
Speaker 4: up in a police family. My father and uncles each
Speaker 4: had anywhere from forty three to forty six years on
Speaker 4: the police department, and there are four of them. And
Speaker 4: I'm married to a police officer, so it's kind of
Speaker 4: a little bit in my blood. And I have the
Speaker 4: true crime book prior to this, which was Murdered Behind
Speaker 4: the Badge, True Stories of Cop two Kill. It's just
Speaker 4: essentially a compilation in history of police officers that off
Speaker 4: the depend to say the least, in committed murder. And
Speaker 4: then of course they're searching for Sandra.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Very unique books too, and because offered from your
Speaker 6: unique perspective, so but very very interesting to cops who kill.
Speaker 6: Very interesting stuff, and I want to thank you very
Speaker 6: much for this interview, Stacey. This has been great and
Speaker 6: people I'm listening to searching for Sandra, the Story behind
Speaker 6: the Disappearance of Sandra Canto with my special guest Stacy Dietrich.
Speaker 6: I want to thank you very much Stacy for this
Speaker 6: interview and hope to talk to you again soon. About
Speaker 6: a new project.
Speaker 4: Listen, Dan, thank you so much and I love what
Speaker 4: you're doing. It's great.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you very much and you have a great
Speaker 6: evening you too, bye bye, good night.