1
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:10,039
Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am DANP. Valley coming at

2
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,039
you with the one, the only, the indelible, the legendary,

3
00:00:14,119 --> 00:00:17,160
the certified, fantabulous co host of the Hardwood Knox podcast,

4
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,160
mister Grant Hughes. It's awards check in time, second to

5
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,000
last time. We'll be doing awards. The next time we

6
00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:26,399
do it, we will be making our final awards picks.

7
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,760
And when we do it, here's some more incentives to

8
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,239
join our discord. We want our listeners to come up

9
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,159
with categories that don't exist. We will pick our favorite

10
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,719
ones and then give our ballots for those awards categories.

11
00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:40,640
They could be ridiculous, but we're also we would encourage

12
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,719
nominations for like actual award categories that you would maybe

13
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,039
like to see. A popular one has been most Improved

14
00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:48,799
Team something like that, or most Entertaining Team or something.

15
00:00:49,119 --> 00:00:51,039
So keep that in your minds. Go join our discord.

16
00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:52,679
If you haven't yet, and if you're watching this right

17
00:00:52,679 --> 00:00:54,840
now and haven't subscribed, I don't know what you're doing.

18
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520
A post taste remedy that Grant, how are we doing

19
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,280
before we canon ball into these awards?

20
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:05,120
Speaker 2: I would just add, like for people submitting categories. It

21
00:01:05,159 --> 00:01:07,799
can be things like most improved Team, but I think

22
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,640
we would also appreciate weirder ones like just however you

23
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,400
want whatever direction you want to take that like best

24
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,519
wrong footed floater, like we'll have to research that, of course.

25
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,079
Speaker 1: Shoulders like.

26
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: You give nothing nothing's nothing's out of Browns. I want

27
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,280
to ask you before we start, do you feel like,

28
00:01:27,359 --> 00:01:30,200
because this is now the third because we did this

29
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,599
might be the fourth time, because we did like preseason awards,

30
00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:35,599
I think, and then we did quarter half. This is

31
00:01:35,599 --> 00:01:38,319
the three quarter mark. Is this getting easier for you

32
00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:38,920
or harder?

33
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: It's getting it's actually getting harder, because you would think

34
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,040
as players get eliminated from eligibility that it's all it

35
00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:49,200
opens up spots for these guys. But you get to

36
00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:51,840
a point and I feel like we reached it definitely

37
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,640
with the last wave of injuries between Kyrie a d

38
00:01:55,159 --> 00:01:57,400
Webbin Yama Fox not that I don't even if he

39
00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,799
would have have picked, like him not being eligible anymore,

40
00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:02,599
Luca hasn't been eligible for a while, and you're also

41
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,120
kind of in the back of your mind sitting here wondering, okay,

42
00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:09,280
like Lebron's gonna return while he's still eligible, right, So

43
00:02:09,319 --> 00:02:11,199
it just it makes me think more and then I

44
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,560
feel like I'm giving it to more undeservement because like

45
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,159
at the top, it's normally easier, and now it's like,

46
00:02:17,199 --> 00:02:19,800
oh no, building first team all NBA was hell fire

47
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:20,159
for me.

48
00:02:20,599 --> 00:02:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's been harder to part for all

49
00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:26,840
those reasons, and also because these are just getting closer

50
00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:29,960
to It's so much easier to say Darius Garland deserves

51
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,080
X halfway through the season or a quarter of the

52
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,879
way through the season, and then you get down towards

53
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,319
the end and it's like these are getting closer to

54
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,520
the official picks on you know, whatever official means for us.

55
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,719
But it's like this kind of needs to be right

56
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,240
or I feel that way, you know, And it's the

57
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,280
impending finality of the picks feels like it makes makes

58
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,800
me more concerned about choosing the wrong guy, so I

59
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,280
like agonize over it a little more. The farther we get,

60
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,439
even with like just some some options being stripped away,

61
00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:03,319
so some tough decisions are kind of we're saved from those.

62
00:03:03,439 --> 00:03:05,599
But all that all that means is at the back

63
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,759
end of these ballots, like for all NBA teams, it's

64
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,719
like you have a lot of really similar level guys

65
00:03:10,719 --> 00:03:12,680
that you have to choose between, and that makes it

66
00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:13,240
harder too.

67
00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:16,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I have two questions for you on

68
00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,400
that one. Well, this is more of a note from

69
00:03:18,439 --> 00:03:21,000
the both of us. So we're doing this uniform. Where

70
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,080
this is we're making our picks for these awards, So

71
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,159
these are not predictions of who we think will actually

72
00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:29,120
win or who people are going to vote for overall.

73
00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:32,800
And it's not anymore sort of Okay, Victor Wembenyama, based

74
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,439
off the number of games that he has played to

75
00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:36,960
this point, you could still pick him and he would

76
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,840
be Defensive Player of the Year. But if we know

77
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,840
that you're not going to be available, like or you're

78
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,319
not going to be eligible, we just automatically ruled you out.

79
00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:48,680
It's Victor Wembenyama does not appear here. He would have

80
00:03:48,719 --> 00:03:50,919
won Defensive Player of the Year if he was healthy.

81
00:03:51,199 --> 00:03:52,919
That's how we approached it. So that wasn't a question.

82
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,280
That was a housekeeping note. I wanted to ask you, Grant,

83
00:03:55,599 --> 00:03:58,639
what was the hardest awards, Like hardest category, whether it

84
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,840
was like a full all NBA or defense team, were

85
00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:03,319
like a particular award for you to cobble together.

86
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 2: I think there were two that I struggled most with.

87
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,400
One was an individual which was Defensive Player of the Year,

88
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,960
because it was like we were done thinking about this

89
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,360
when Wemby was healthy, like pretty early in the year,

90
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,319
and it's like, let's he's got it. Let's just figure

91
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,519
out who's like second, third, honorable mention whatever. And then

92
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,079
my last All NBA first team spot was I spent

93
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,040
the most time, uh thinking about, because that's another one.

94
00:04:28,079 --> 00:04:30,040
I think we had Wemby there for a good stretch

95
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,480
as well, Like I know, I think last time we

96
00:04:32,519 --> 00:04:34,439
did this, he was a first teamer for both of us,

97
00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:37,680
and then I think we you know, at points of

98
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,759
the season it's been like Brunson's there, Like is Mobile there?

99
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,959
What about Jaron Jackson? And like it's so the guy

100
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,279
I picked is none of those people. I just that

101
00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:48,160
was the hardest one because it felt like that was

102
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,759
kind of spoken for until it wasn't.

103
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,160
Speaker 1: I yeah, that's a good I didn't even view it

104
00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:55,360
through that lens. I struggled with most Improved Player for

105
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,199
some reason, I'm getting Yeah, I'm getting too caught up

106
00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:01,720
in like defining whether I think like who should be

107
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,199
It's like the so I didn't consider any sophomores, But

108
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,600
it's like that type of thing, like, oh, should these

109
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,199
big name players who are already good be eligible for it?

110
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,839
And that's the war that always just trips me up

111
00:05:09,879 --> 00:05:12,240
when I'm trying to hammer down, like my own personal

112
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:13,199
criteria for it.

113
00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:15,399
Speaker 2: It's the one that's like, right, it's not even your

114
00:05:15,439 --> 00:05:17,439
personal criteria. It's like, what the fuck does this award

115
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,839
even mean? Like what's it supposed to? Like? What kinds

116
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,399
of improvements are we talking about? So, yeah, I should

117
00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:24,720
have said that too. That's always a I think for me,

118
00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:28,920
I just decided, like, here's what I think this award

119
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,160
means and just went with it. And I don't know

120
00:05:31,199 --> 00:05:33,000
if that that's right, but in that way it kind

121
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,279
of simplified what I ended up doing.

122
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 1: Well, if we already should we get should we get started?

123
00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:38,959
Speaker 2: We shall?

124
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,639
Speaker 1: We begin with our MVP ballots I will, which are

125
00:05:44,879 --> 00:05:47,720
eerily similar. For the well the Shocker, Dan and Grant

126
00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:51,120
have similar thoughts. We have to start with the Shay

127
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,759
guildges Alexander versus Nicola Jokic of it all, we both

128
00:05:54,759 --> 00:05:57,399
have Jokic over shake gilg as Alexander for anyone who

129
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,279
is watching, But they're one and two. I before we

130
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,160
get into the differentiators, I do very much view them

131
00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:06,759
this point as it's like one A one B or

132
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,560
one A one A, where if you're going to pick

133
00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:12,279
Shay over Jokic, because I approach this saying I want

134
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,040
to make a case for Shay over Jokic, and I

135
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,199
think there's one that's there. It just for me personally

136
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,160
wasn't strong enough. And if you're going to say it's

137
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,519
a tie, which maybe it is, then I'm just going

138
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,160
to default to the better player. And I believe that

139
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,199
Nikola Jokic is the best player in the world. So

140
00:06:28,199 --> 00:06:30,160
if the margins are that close, that's going to be

141
00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:33,319
what I would consider a worthwhile separator.

142
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,639
Speaker 2: I would I would echo all that. I also have

143
00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:41,360
Jokic winning it. I believe he's the MVP. I think

144
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,240
you and I both agree like Shay is gonna win

145
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,199
this award. I think the momentum is like pretty much

146
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,800
irreversible at this point. And again every word of this

147
00:06:51,879 --> 00:06:54,040
part of the conversation, I feel like we both want

148
00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:58,720
to couch with Sga is an MVP caliber player like

149
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,439
he This is one of the greatest guard seasons we've

150
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,360
ever seen. He's doing it for a team that is

151
00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:08,240
running away with a good Western car. Like, there's nothing

152
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,120
we say in Jokic's favor is like is knocking Shay down.

153
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,759
I don't feel like we should have to say that,

154
00:07:13,839 --> 00:07:17,720
but I guess everybody has decided the MVP discourse is toxic,

155
00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:20,639
So let's be like really really not toxic about it.

156
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,199
I don't know, I don't think it. I don't think

157
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,639
we should have to bend over backwards to lay out

158
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,120
how good Sga is and how deserving he would be

159
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,040
if he won it. But that's the caveat before we

160
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,000
go any farther.

161
00:07:31,959 --> 00:07:35,079
Speaker 1: For this podcast specifically too, If we have to give

162
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,160
caveats about the thunder and the things that we have

163
00:07:37,199 --> 00:07:40,079
said about them, like over even before they started being good,

164
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920
like that would just be ridiculous. But yeah, it's you

165
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,199
invariably have to be well, this is why Shay can't

166
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:45,639
win it.

167
00:07:46,519 --> 00:07:51,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, So can I ask you, did you uh? I

168
00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:53,839
know we come into this open minded? Did you come

169
00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:59,240
into this just the Sga Jokic decision with I think

170
00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:02,560
it's this guy as like a starting point and then

171
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:04,879
crunch numbers or like you know what I mean, Like,

172
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,720
how firm was your opinion going into prepping for today this?

173
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: So the first two times we did this, my opinion

174
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,399
was pretty firm and I was I have never doubted

175
00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:18,560
going into it. I knew what my picks were like

176
00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:21,439
the previous two times, so I knew I had Jokic,

177
00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:23,879
but I went into saying you're not gonna end up

178
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,639
kind of picking Yo. Like it was that level of

179
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,120
second guessing and when I dug into it, the biggest

180
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,000
differentiator for me is that you have to believe that

181
00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:37,759
the value Shay provides on defense, like that gap between

182
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:40,000
him and Yokic makes up for a gap that still

183
00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:44,039
exists on offense, which I think Shay Gilgick's Alexander has

184
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,720
thinned out. But you look at like Jokic, the Nuggets

185
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,919
offensive rating outside garbage time with him on the floor

186
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,360
is like one twenty eight point four. That is obscene.

187
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,600
That is way higher than the offensive rating that the

188
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,879
thunder have with Hay on the court. Now, if you

189
00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:01,399
flip flop it to defense, okay, maybe I'd feel differently

190
00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:05,120
if I thought Shay was the Okayc's best defender. But

191
00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:08,200
I think what really just makes the difference is I'm

192
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,559
always gonna gravitate towards the lifelines for this for offenses

193
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,279
in this conversation, and there's still a gap when you're

194
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,480
looking at the passing specifically, like they're they're on the

195
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,759
same level as a score. Like I think that Jokic

196
00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:23,279
is just put like the way that he thinks and

197
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,399
manipulates the game as a passer. It's not well like

198
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,679
Shay really needs to catch up to him. It's over.

199
00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:32,240
Nobody's catching up to Kola Jokic in that regard right now,

200
00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:35,000
And I just when I'm watching him, he's still doing

201
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,440
things or just like picking up heart defenses and drawing

202
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,000
a type of attention to where Nuggets fans are now

203
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,200
talking about like the Jokic rules because of the way

204
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,159
that some teams have tried guarding him lately. It's the

205
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,039
fact that Shay is so mission critical to a team

206
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,120
that is historically good. He can win MVP. I do

207
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,360
think that, and this does a disservice to him. To me,

208
00:09:55,879 --> 00:09:58,399
there's too much right now, Like Nikola Yokich is already

209
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:00,759
one to three the Thunder the best team the league,

210
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,960
and I'll end with this the one year Nicole Jokic

211
00:10:04,039 --> 00:10:07,320
did not win it, like over this span, that's when

212
00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:09,879
the Nuggets were first in the Western Conference, And so

213
00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:11,799
it's I just don't I like to look at each

214
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,559
season kind of in a vacuum, not oh, what happened

215
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,240
prior how many awards does this guy have? Or at

216
00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:18,759
least I try to look at it that way. And

217
00:10:18,799 --> 00:10:21,440
I'm certainly not trying to be like there's no argument

218
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,480
here because we've seen Yokic in the playoffs. But remember

219
00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:25,720
between a beat and Jokic, it used to be, well,

220
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,320
like we don't know if like you could win in

221
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,960
the postseason with Jokic, So this regular season awards should

222
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,799
go to somebody else.

223
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I think for me, I asked that

224
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,159
because I went into this thinking, like I really need

225
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,600
to almost come in with the default of SGA has it.

226
00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:45,519
What can I point to, like, you know, like I

227
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,360
wanted a rebuttable presumption that SGA had it, and I

228
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,639
needed to find evidence to like take it away like

229
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,559
he had the benefit of the doubt. That's how cause

230
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,679
I had been thinking kind of the opposite all year,

231
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,080
and just as an exercise, I just kind of went

232
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,639
in that way, and Jokic still just for many of

233
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,679
the reasons you mentioned and and you know, gut and

234
00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,039
feeling and other stuff like just he just took it away.

235
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,159
And I think it's like he has He's more efficient,

236
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,480
his true shootings higher. The offense with Jokic on is

237
00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:20,039
better than in Denver than Okay sees is with Shae on,

238
00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:24,000
And like the on off stuff tends to favor Jokic.

239
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,240
But that's not really an MVP thing I unless you

240
00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:28,879
really twist it and say, like, well, to this team,

241
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,320
his value is so great because they have nothing behind him.

242
00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:34,399
I don't I'm not super persuaded by that. I just

243
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,519
like to look at how good these teams are with

244
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,799
them on the floor, and I think you can make

245
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,799
the now the Nuggets aren't as good as the Thunder

246
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,759
because of the defense, But offensively, if we're just talking

247
00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:50,080
about like what level does Jokic get the Nuggets too offensively?

248
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,600
What level does Shaye get the Thunder too? Offensively? Jokic

249
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:55,080
gets his team to a higher offensive level and the

250
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,279
defensive gains I think for Oklahoma City are much more

251
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,159
collective because oftentimes you can make the case that Shay

252
00:12:01,279 --> 00:12:03,440
is the fourth best defender on the floor sometimes the

253
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,919
fifth again not taking away the other thing is just

254
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,480
in addition to the scoring, Jokic just got twenty seven

255
00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:13,399
assist points created per game, Shay is at sixteen. It's

256
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,799
just like, that's that's just another way to frame the

257
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,600
passing stuff that you talked about. I think it's Jokic

258
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,480
is just on a different level as a facilitator for others.

259
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,399
So it just yeah, I mean, there's plenty of catch alls.

260
00:12:25,399 --> 00:12:28,919
I think EPM likes Shay better, like by a tiny amount.

261
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,240
That just illustrates how close it is. I think in

262
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,519
the end, Jokic is still just the guy that causes

263
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,399
the most trouble for a defense and is the hardest

264
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,480
problem to solve for a defense. And if you know that,

265
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,080
in addition to the numbers, just narrowly did it for me.

266
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,159
I think, you know, again, this could go either way.

267
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,799
I will have no problem if Shaye wins it like he's.

268
00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:55,759
Speaker 1: It's just there's the voter fatigue might be re and

269
00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:58,240
it's not. If he wins it, I don't it I

270
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,519
voter fatigue I think will factor in the way that

271
00:13:00,519 --> 00:13:03,080
that's how it's being framed, but it doesn't that doesn't

272
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,679
denigrate him as the MVP candidate. And I'm with you

273
00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:08,320
on the the on off swings are cool to site

274
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:09,960
and like they can kind of show how much you

275
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,639
can uplift maybe a team that's whether like Okay, what's there.

276
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,279
But if you have a very low baseline and for

277
00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:17,480
the rest of your supporting cast and you're a superstar,

278
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,639
that's just naturally going to be higher. Still with Jokic,

279
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:22,759
that's what gets interesting, is because if you want to

280
00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:25,559
point out that, so we both mentioned the Denver offense

281
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,240
with Yokic on the floor versus Okay, sees Denver probably

282
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,799
has a better collection of offensive talent around Yokic, at

283
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,919
least in their top When you're looking at Murray, I

284
00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:35,679
don't like, but like then you're starting to.

285
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,000
Speaker 2: Say, well, though I don't know if I would, I'm

286
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:38,759
not sure about that.

287
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 1: My point is is that the kind of quality of

288
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,279
the supporting cast matters. And if you look at the

289
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,559
two way quality of the supporting cast, if you want

290
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,960
to say that Shay is a better defender than Yokic,

291
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,200
you're you're correct. He also has a like the infrastructure

292
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,799
there because of the talent around him is so much

293
00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:55,320
better on that end of the floor than it would

294
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,440
be for Jokic, Like offensively, if you're looking at the okay,

295
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,360
Jokic is better on offense and Shay Gilge Alexander's better

296
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,639
on defense. Who has more of the helping hand on

297
00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:06,679
that side of the floor. It's obviously Shay there. So

298
00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:08,320
I'm if you wanted to look at it from the

299
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:11,279
like kind of, oh, take this player off perspective, like

300
00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:14,519
that's I think worth or who's doing more with less?

301
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,320
That's kind of how I'm I'm looking at it. But

302
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,159
you're right, it is close on I mean, Chet and

303
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,799
Isaiah Hartensteg missing so much of the year, I think

304
00:14:21,799 --> 00:14:23,480
it kind of should factor and okay, like who you're

305
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,399
talking about, Ja Dubin That's basically it for a lot

306
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,600
of the season. So but it's it's so close, and

307
00:14:29,639 --> 00:14:31,120
this is one of them. Trying to think the last

308
00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:33,480
time I thought the MVP race was this close because

309
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,720
we both had Jokic over Embiid that one year pretty comfortably. Hm,

310
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,240
I'm trying to do remember, like off hand, but this

311
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,759
has been one of the close, more closer ones. Maybe

312
00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,759
it's the one wasn't Jokic's first MVP didn't feel like

313
00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:46,840
it was. It could have been him, Giannis or Embiid

314
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:47,960
or has that.

315
00:14:47,879 --> 00:14:50,679
Speaker 2: Been I think it's those three have kind of been

316
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,120
the only serious considerations for a while. It feels like

317
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:57,080
the last thing I wanted to say about the because

318
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,000
I don't know how much we need to really talk

319
00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:01,759
about defense because either of these guys are defined by it,

320
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,200
and MVPs are almost never like decided on the basis

321
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,200
of defense. It seems like I would agree that Shay

322
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,720
is better at his job than Jokic's, But I think

323
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,679
I've made some version of this argument before, where like

324
00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:20,879
the demands on an impact of a guard defender who

325
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,720
is nowhere near the best at that position on his

326
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,200
team are so much lower than that of a center,

327
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,679
like we always have we over index on centers in

328
00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:33,320
DPOY just because, like we collectively acknowledge, the defense of

329
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,559
a center just matters more than the defense of any

330
00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:37,840
other position. And so Jokic could be a C plus

331
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,200
on defense as a center, and you could argue that

332
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,000
that's more important than someone who's a B plus or

333
00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:47,919
an as as a guard. Like I that's just I

334
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,440
think that's a fair thing to say. So you could

335
00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:53,519
even twist it to say that Jokic actually has like

336
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,759
defensive advantages because of the position he has to play

337
00:15:56,799 --> 00:16:00,120
and how much more important it is. Again, that's like

338
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:02,960
conversation for me.

339
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 1: And I think Shay just he's gonna find himself in

340
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,879
going up against tougher just because of the position he plays,

341
00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:12,480
Like at some point there's going to be actions where

342
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,240
he finds himself covering someone specifically who is And there's

343
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,679
also there's a lot of value in forcing turnovers and

344
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,200
knowing when and when you can't do that with Yoki.

345
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:21,639
So I've seen a lot of people say that he

346
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,639
and I do feel like for a really good portion

347
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,440
of the season and maybe for games that don't matter,

348
00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:28,879
that he hasn't been great Like this is definitely I

349
00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:31,000
don't think he's been as good defensively this year as

350
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,759
maybe the previous two. Like when you're watching some of

351
00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:35,720
like the higher stakes games for them, like those two

352
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,320
Oklahoma City thunder ones, like he had some stretches where

353
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,600
it was just like, I don't understand what people are

354
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:42,600
talking about there. You just have to remember it's the

355
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,679
full season. But I think that he's I'm not gonna

356
00:16:44,679 --> 00:16:47,120
sit here and say he's parentally underrated on defense, but

357
00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:50,000
I do think there's a level of underappreciation. For forget

358
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,080
the rebounding and ending possessions. We know the value in

359
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,559
that part, just like sometimes the way he's moving or

360
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,559
knowing to be in the right spots, or like when

361
00:16:56,559 --> 00:16:59,080
he is playing in more aggressive coverages. I still don't

362
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,639
think that we fully appre like at least his highs,

363
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,279
they're never He's never has these impressive sustainable peaks, I guess,

364
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,119
I would say, but like there are peaks.

365
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 2: I think the other thing. I know he keeps saying

366
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:11,839
last thing, but you keep making me think of stuff.

367
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,480
Even if Shay can often find himself in the position

368
00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:18,279
of like you're stuck on Donovan Mitchell, like because they

369
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,079
hunted you or whatever. They didn't hunt you, but like

370
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,000
that's how it shook out. You got to guard him.

371
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,440
And so so for that reason, like he you know,

372
00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:27,720
kind of plays a higher leverage role than it might seem.

373
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,519
I would argue, like if the opposing team is running

374
00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:32,759
a pick and roll, Yokic is involved in the coverage

375
00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:34,880
of that, and so it's just like he's gonna have

376
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,119
a pretty central position in almost every defensive possession in

377
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,240
a way that Shay really doesn't, because there are stretches

378
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,880
where sha is just on a guy in the corner

379
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,240
and can chill and Jokic in addition to having a

380
00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:49,759
similarly super high usage role on offense, like I think

381
00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:53,640
he's probably in the action more defensively just because that's

382
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,960
just what centers have to do.

383
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,440
Speaker 1: You know, this is the actual final thing on these two.

384
00:17:58,519 --> 00:18:01,480
I don't know if I wish that I was like

385
00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:04,119
a fan of one of these teams, because they make

386
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,720
it seem like it's so like open and shut, like no,

387
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:10,160
it's obviously sche it's obviously Yokic, and that always there's

388
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,240
things about fandom that can frustrate me. I think that's

389
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,200
one that I kind of appreciate, where I sometimes I

390
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,079
have to remember if they're responding to me, or I

391
00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:19,680
see it come across my timeline, I shouldn't interact with

392
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,920
it because it's clearly coming from like a position of

393
00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:25,400
I'm supporting this guy. But I wish if there's people

394
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,440
who are not like Thunder and Nuggets and they just

395
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,079
think that this is an easy decision, I wish I

396
00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:32,079
felt that way. Yeah, they would just save me so

397
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,200
much time I know.

398
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,319
Speaker 2: The fandom thing is like I I think I remember

399
00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:41,720
when Steph was the unanimous MVP. I think I probably

400
00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:43,960
was so in the bag as a fan that I

401
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,680
would have been like annoyed had he not been unanimous.

402
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,200
It just like never happened before. So I can sympathize

403
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:55,279
with the like the nuggets or thundercolored glasses. Uh view

404
00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:56,799
of the MVP debate, I get it.

405
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,519
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of fandom, since you have Steph five on

406
00:18:59,559 --> 00:19:02,960
your ballot, very quickly, we both have. I have Tatum

407
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,200
at three, honest at four. You have them flip flopped

408
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,720
Yannis at three, Tatam at four. What was like, what

409
00:19:08,839 --> 00:19:09,759
goes into that for you?

410
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,599
Speaker 2: Between Jannis and Tatum? Yeah, not not a lot, Like

411
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,759
it could have gone the other way. Really, this was

412
00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:17,759
just like who's one, Who's two? And then after that

413
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,079
Joannis and Tatum have to be there, and I did

414
00:19:20,279 --> 00:19:22,759
so the fifth spot. I guess if I had to

415
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:26,839
make a case for Yannis, I guess like he's arguably

416
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,799
more central to the operation, maybe on both ends, but

417
00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:33,079
that's just more of a like the Celtics have more

418
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,000
good players, and yeah I don't. I don't have a

419
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,000
huge he wanted to flip those two not a big

420
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:39,559
issue to me.

421
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,799
Speaker 1: He's clearly been better Yannis than Tatum per minute, but

422
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,160
like Tatum has played like twenty three hundred minutes or

423
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,960
something destructible. Yeah, once you get to five hundred plus,

424
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:50,640
I think that that when you look at how good

425
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,799
Tatum is on defense, I will say he was making me.

426
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,960
He's been shooting sub thirty four percent from three since Christmas.

427
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,279
It's a long time to be there. But I think

428
00:19:59,319 --> 00:20:01,640
that speaks to everything else he can do as a playmaker,

429
00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:03,799
drawing fouls and then the health defense. Of course, we

430
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:05,640
all know he's one of those best guys. But you

431
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,920
have Steph number five, and I will say, I'd like

432
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:12,279
to kind of play, Oh, someone's got his Warriors goggles on.

433
00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:13,599
I have Steph six.

434
00:20:13,839 --> 00:20:16,319
Speaker 2: So that's just not like, Well, the other thing is

435
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,279
I had him third team last time we did this,

436
00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:21,039
and you had him second. So he's just climbed for

437
00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:24,680
me more than he has for you our second team,

438
00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:29,480
not not third overall. Uh so this one the fifth

439
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,400
spot I thought a lot about, Like most of the

440
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,240
comparisons I did were between him and Donovan Mitchell, just

441
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,880
because like they felt kind of similar and I needed

442
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,039
to now I didn't like MOBILEI I thought about, like

443
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,759
we've thought about, we've probably had Brunson in this spot,

444
00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:48,039
if we had Franz Wagner pretty close to this at

445
00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:48,559
one point.

446
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,279
Speaker 1: Earlier in the year, or for both of us in

447
00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:53,319
the first quarter V So I.

448
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 2: It came down to me with Steph, it's a lot

449
00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:00,000
of the same arguments that we've made over the year

450
00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,359
years where it's just like his impact on the offense.

451
00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:05,839
There the Warriors score like one to eighteen with him

452
00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:08,720
on it's one oh four without him that has been

453
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,039
and that's with Butler offering a massive boost over the

454
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,599
last month or so, So that number really is even

455
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,960
more heavily skewed if you're thinking about the whole year.

456
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 1: Have been massively boosting the Jimmy Butler edition.

457
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: Probably Yeah, hard to say. It's it's his efficiency. It's

458
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,680
the way that I think still with the exception of

459
00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:31,880
Jokic and Shay, Steph is still Steph's the next guy

460
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,359
that commands like one hunt, maximum defensive attention, like everything

461
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,799
out that happens on the floor, like he's the central

462
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:41,480
figure in it, whether he has the ball or not.

463
00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:44,960
That's really not true. Of like someone like Mitchell, someone

464
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:47,920
like Garland, someone like I mean, Brunson probably comes close,

465
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,079
but it's just not the same. So difficulty of his role,

466
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,720
the heater he's been on post trade deadline, which just

467
00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:58,160
he looks like an All NBA first team er his

468
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,680
team is, he's you know, helping his team to that level.

469
00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:05,680
I think the best case against it is like, actually,

470
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,799
Butler has as much to do with this run as

471
00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:10,359
Steph does, but Steph's numbers have just been so much better,

472
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,319
like he's just playing better. I feel the more I

473
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,400
looked into it, because I was hesitant at first, the

474
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,720
more I feel like pretty good about this. There's like,

475
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:22,759
I don't know, twenty percent of this is homersm and

476
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:27,079
the rest of it's just genuine objectivity. But I feel

477
00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:29,839
pretty good about it. I don't feel like I needed to,

478
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,160
you know, stretch too hard to get him here.

479
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: I think it's justifiable. I have Evan Mobley, which I

480
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,359
don't know if that will be a common like where

481
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,440
he's gonna I think most if I had to guess,

482
00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:45,480
Donovan Mitchell will finish higher in MVP voting, like of

483
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,319
the Cavaliers than Evan Mobley, and I get it because

484
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,839
when you watch the calves, who are teams planning around

485
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:55,480
the most offensively, right, it's Donovan Mitchell now mobile. I

486
00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:57,079
don't want to get into too much of his defensive

487
00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:59,880
stuff since he's obviously gonna come up in the DPOY discussion,

488
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:03,440
But offensively there's been a great deal of improvement there

489
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,519
we've focused on in the past, Like that it's dropped

490
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:07,359
a little bit, but like his finishing through contact is

491
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,880
a lot better. The three point shot on the year

492
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,920
over thirty six percent on better volume. That's dipped recently,

493
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,759
but like the fact that he's still kind of around

494
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,759
there after going through this sort of slump is huge.

495
00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:22,440
I think that he could be a better playmaker, but

496
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:24,960
like the quality of the passes and the way that

497
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,920
he's reacting when defenses like collapse onto him, and like

498
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,960
the inclination of defenses to collapse onto him now feels

499
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,000
like that it's higher than it was. So I look

500
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:37,759
at this and say, Okay, he's probably the Cavs is

501
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:40,319
third best offensive player. But if there's a chance that

502
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,720
you're one of the three best defensive players in the NBA,

503
00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:46,759
and then you're the most valuable defender, and like third

504
00:23:46,759 --> 00:23:49,240
most valuable offensive player on a team that might just

505
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:52,160
win seventy games. The impact he's having, I mean, into

506
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,559
a lot of people cancide. Okay, he plays with Jared Allen.

507
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,720
Sure the minutes without Jared Allen has been killing it.

508
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,559
Like defensively, I believe the Cavs are in like the

509
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,680
ninety first percentile of defense efficiency. When he's playing without

510
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,559
Jared Allen, I would have to double check that. It's

511
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:06,880
probably my DPO wide notes. So he does that. And

512
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,960
then the fact that he just again I don't want

513
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,640
to harp too much on the defense, I'm gonna end

514
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,880
it here, but the fact that he can be so

515
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:15,240
versatile on defense, but then he's still doing like all

516
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:17,880
this other regular big man stuff even when he is

517
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,160
playing with Jared Allen, like during those stretches. Just the versatility,

518
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,480
the improvement, the value that I think he's driving offensively

519
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,440
for the Calves to do these things off the ball

520
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,160
because he has grown on the ball, It's just a

521
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,240
really big deal. And I like, I don't know, that's

522
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:37,039
one of the most fascinating conversations. Who is the MVP

523
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,960
of the Calves? Never mind do they belong in the

524
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,079
top five because I do think there's a real kick.

525
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:42,960
I think you can make case for Darius Garland, and

526
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,160
we probably did at some point this year.

527
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,599
Speaker 2: No, I definitely have had Garland over Mitchell when we're

528
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,079
doing this exercise for most of the year, and then

529
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,759
like I think I have Mitchell. Well, we're gonna spoil

530
00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:56,279
our second teams, but that even now and then it's

531
00:24:56,519 --> 00:24:59,359
if you're just thinking about offense, Yeah, okay, it's one

532
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,480
of those two, but like we're gonna have spoiler. Mobley's

533
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,039
gonna rank pretty high in dp O Y here, and

534
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,160
that's like, that's a real thing. I would say, I

535
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,000
have no issue with you having mobiley fifth. I think

536
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,000
that's a totally justifiable pick. I think you having him

537
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:17,000
there is a good I don't know what the word is.

538
00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:21,720
I think outside like the NBA Siico silo, people know

539
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,680
who Evan Mobley is and like recognize he's good and

540
00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:27,680
probably think of him as a good defender. I do

541
00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:31,960
still think generally speaking, we're a little behind on appreciating

542
00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:35,559
like no, no, no, he's actually he's gonna be one

543
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:37,759
of the best players in the league for the next

544
00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:41,440
ten years. Like he's really at He's not Yannest. He's

545
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,519
not Tatum, He's not at that level, but he's like

546
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,640
he's closer to that than you think.

547
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,079
Speaker 1: Mind almost, I mean that, yeah, right, not fair. This

548
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,000
is like I feel like it's almost if you put

549
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:54,519
Chopper Kevin Garnett in today's NBA.

550
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: Made pretty pretty similar, I think. Yeah, which was the billing,

551
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,960
which was like he's kind of finally delivered.

552
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:02,559
Speaker 1: There were so many like the things that were being

553
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,119
said about him, they felt up scene, but they were.

554
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,799
It was sort of like, oh, he's a Kevin Durant.

555
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:08,519
Honestly that the Koople hybrid was the.

556
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 2: One that I But he's half Duncan half Garnett, Like, okay, great,

557
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,200
he is like two of the best bigs of all

558
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,920
time just in the same body. Got it.

559
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: I did want to shout out because I think Jannis's case,

560
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,200
if he wanted to make a case for Giannis to win,

561
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,079
it's he's the most important player on offense and defense

562
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:26,480
for his team. I really think there's only one other

563
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,519
player in the league right now that fits that bill.

564
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,160
Can you guess who it is?

565
00:26:31,079 --> 00:26:31,799
Speaker 2: Jared Jackson?

566
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,559
Speaker 1: Yes, And I would the only stimmin to throw out

567
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:36,119
here because we're gonna talk about him in a little bit.

568
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,559
Is actually I guess he's gonna You want to go

569
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:41,359
into our All NBA teams, Yeah, let's do that. So

570
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:44,680
let's start My first team All NBA is the same

571
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,039
as my MVP ballot Jokic, Jay Tatum, Giannis Mobile second team,

572
00:26:50,079 --> 00:26:54,839
I have Brunton Garland, Jalen Brunton, Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell,

573
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,640
Steph Curry, and Jaron Jackson Junior. I have Jaron Jackson

574
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,279
Junior as an honorable mention with Steph Is and v Grant.

575
00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:04,079
He's in the ninety ninth percentile of self created shot

576
00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:08,640
making efficiency. That is incredible, and he's their most important defender.

577
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,079
So why And I think this has been part because

578
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,000
John Moran's been banged up, and I know that John

579
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,880
Moran is clearly the better passer. But I think you

580
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,799
can make a case that Jared Jacksons provided more overarching

581
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:21,599
offensive value to them, or at least has been more

582
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:22,799
important this year.

583
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,559
Speaker 2: I think that's I think given the availability, I think

584
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,279
that's like just the right take at this point. Like

585
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:32,160
it doesn't mean that like next year of Jaws healthy

586
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,160
and can play all the time, Like maybe that changes,

587
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,880
But if you're just talking about this year, which we are.

588
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,200
That's what these awards are for. I don't think anybody

589
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,799
has been more important on either.

590
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: End than him for the Grizzlies, the Jalen Brunts, it

591
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:45,799
of it all, I don't I would be shut like

592
00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:48,119
he only needs to play in four more games to

593
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,400
maintain his eligibility, so I don't think the ankle Andrew

594
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,960
will prevent him from doing there. His case seems self

595
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,599
explanatory steps to me. You you laid it out like

596
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,160
in the MVP debate, having both Garland and Mitchell here.

597
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,640
Maybe some people but would quibble at that, but like

598
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,680
I know that, okay. So we look at Mobiley for

599
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,319
the defense and his improvement, and then Donnovan Mitchell just

600
00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:08,680
being like their go to guy and he's been toggling

601
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,119
between a bunch of different things on offense. I just

602
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,200
don't think we appreciate like the gravity of Darius Garland

603
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,759
both on and away from the ball, and he is

604
00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:19,880
their best passer, so like he's been fantastic. My third team,

605
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,440
I've Anthony Edwards, Lebron James. I think he was the

606
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,119
first time I put him on an All NBA team.

607
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,720
He's I think he's like he'll be back in time

608
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:29,319
to maintain his eligibility.

609
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:30,599
Speaker 2: He's a close one though.

610
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: He's a close one, but for now and we don't

611
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,119
know for sure that he's gonna be out. He definitely

612
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,279
turned on the Jets defensively, like I don't know, early

613
00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:42,400
midway through January. If he had played like this all year,

614
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:45,720
he probably would have been in me like the top

615
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:48,200
of the MVP discussion, like next to Jokich and Shay,

616
00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:51,799
I have Kat still on third team. That case has

617
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:53,559
gotten a little weaker. I believe I had him at

618
00:28:53,559 --> 00:28:56,839
second team at one point. The two new entrants for

619
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,400
me and I think at least one of these two

620
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,200
should have in retrospect, been on my All NBA team

621
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:05,000
last time. I have domas the bonus he'll be back.

622
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,759
I know there's no timetable for his return, but like,

623
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:11,720
he just plays through everything. So he's just he's the

624
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,960
player in the league that I think we overthink the most.

625
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:17,640
Do I understand that he's limited and tough to build around. Sure,

626
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,920
this is not a playoff award, like if you're just

627
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,319
gonna like hit a bunch of threes or shoot really

628
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:26,920
well from three pancake guys on screen, set up your teammates,

629
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,519
like get your team running in transition, grabbing, leads the

630
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,880
league in rebounds. I think at this point, super efficient play, finisher,

631
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,799
excellent passer, great rebounder. I just feel like we overthink

632
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,920
him sometimes, like he's in all NBA, especially with all

633
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,039
these injuries like two. And then I have Kay Cunningham

634
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:45,839
who has just been The improvement specifically from him on

635
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,160
defense has been huge. The way he's driving transition for

636
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,920
the Pistons this year, they increase their frequency on the

637
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,359
break by eight percent with him on the court. That's

638
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:58,640
the third highest mark among players who've played at least

639
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,319
a thousand minutes. Only Alex Sar and Lebron are ahead

640
00:30:02,319 --> 00:30:03,799
of him. And the only reason that Alex Sar is

641
00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:06,240
like in there is when you have a talent deficit,

642
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:08,039
as the wizard, you just you get out in transition.

643
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:11,519
That's what you do. So he's just been incredibly valuable

644
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:13,839
improved is you know, you still wonder about some of

645
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,519
the finishing, doing a better job of drawing shooting fouls,

646
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:19,440
but he is I mean again, especially in the current climate.

647
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:22,200
Was an easy inclusion for this actually might have been

648
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,440
we were talking about how difficult is this exercise? This

649
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,640
might have been the easiest time I had building my

650
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,720
all NBA teams.

651
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, well, just because some of the names

652
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,440
that you had to like the Kyries and the Anthony

653
00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:36,559
Davis's like are kind of stripped.

654
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,799
Speaker 1: Off on mine last time. Both of them I think

655
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,039
made it and the tough cuts for me before we

656
00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:42,960
get to yours, or if you have any questions about mine,

657
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:47,720
I have Pascal Siakam Tyre's Haliburton listed as honorable mentions,

658
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:52,519
both Pacers, obviously Jaylen Williams from The Thunder and then look,

659
00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:55,960
Kevin Durant has been magnificent, but I just the Sons

660
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,200
are losing the minutes he plays. I know what he's

661
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,839
done defensively for them, but I almost times feel that

662
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,000
we're swayed by the fact that they're working off such

663
00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:06,799
a low defensive baseline that he does anything and it's

664
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:09,519
not like he has this the most difficult job, Like

665
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:11,799
when you're looking at who's covering who, it's more of

666
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,000
just like this not even a help guy, but it's

667
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,279
like a big which is which is fine. It's not

668
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,880
like he's their primary rim protector either. I think the

669
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,480
bigger thing for me is just he's doing all of

670
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:25,319
this offensively and the fact that it doesn't necessarily matter

671
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,720
to the larger context of the team. I think speaks like, Okay,

672
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,279
this is one of the greatest players of all time,

673
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:31,960
one of the best players in the NBA right now,

674
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,440
but can he drive single handedly the success of others

675
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:38,079
at the level of some of these other guys.

676
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,599
Speaker 2: The answered to me is no, Yeah, I think that's

677
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,359
right that I found myself because I have Lebron on

678
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,480
a team too, and I was like, well, if Lebron,

679
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:49,559
why not Durant, Like why why wouldn't both of them

680
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:50,319
just be on there?

681
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: I mean, the Lakers are losing the minutes that Lebron.

682
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: Plays right famously, that's like one of the big.

683
00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: Prodcasting, Like, that's the distinction. There's Okay, the scoring my

684
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,759
be similar. Kevin Durant's better score, maybe he's been the

685
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:05,160
better defender, but it's just like Lebron's playmaking kind.

686
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: Of just yeah, okay, So let's say all I have

687
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,960
my my MVP ballad is my first team, which is Jokic, Sga, Tatum, Yanness,

688
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:18,440
and Steph. Our second teams are similar except basically we

689
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,680
flipped Mobiley and Steph, so I have Mitchell, Mobley, Jackson,

690
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Garland and Brunson on my second team, so Mobley falls.

691
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,279
We just swapped those two. Third team, I have Edwards,

692
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:33,920
Kate Cunningham, Lebron, Jalen Williams and Tyrese Haliburton. Third team

693
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,880
was hard because I don't have Kat on there, and

694
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,039
I feel like that's an oversight. I don't have Let's.

695
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:41,680
I want to make sure I don't. I don't have Durant,

696
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:44,279
I don't have Bonus. Those are like the main You

697
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,839
don't You're like I think we over we overthink him,

698
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:53,039
like I don't think we think hard enough. No, he

699
00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:54,799
he is, I will say, because I did think about

700
00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:57,359
him and did I have him at some point this

701
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:58,759
year Maybe I don't remember.

702
00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: I would hazard absolutely not unlikely.

703
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,039
Speaker 2: He is really the sing and this is probably just

704
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:09,039
why I'm wrong about him. He is the guy that

705
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,279
like forces the hardest conversations about at what point are

706
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,480
the individual statistics like just too good for us to

707
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,240
ignore and like pass off as not meaningful because the

708
00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:24,960
leading the league and rebounding, he is making threes. He's

709
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,440
not shooting a lot like great scool all the things

710
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,519
you said, it's like that's all true and minutes with

711
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:32,759
him on the floor too, And yet here I am

712
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:35,480
just like, I don't think that drives winning. And it's like, okay,

713
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:37,720
so does he need to average thirty and twent If

714
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,519
he was averaging thirty and twenty and you know, still

715
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:43,000
shooting forty three percent from three, like, would that be enough?

716
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:44,880
I don't know. It's a good thought experiment for me.

717
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,559
Speaker 1: I do think if you're approaching it from the perspective

718
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,599
of it's a matter of taste, where if you think

719
00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:53,839
that what Jay dub because of what he does defensively

720
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,680
like that like that. So, but if it's if you're

721
00:33:56,799 --> 00:33:59,480
coming into this saying so Bonus can't make all NBA

722
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,799
because he does drive winning, which I don't think that's

723
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:05,079
the perspective or vantage point from what you're viewing.

724
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,759
Speaker 2: It's not quite but I'm I'm near that, I feel like,

725
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:09,159
which is probably not a great place.

726
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: At least yourself aware enough to admit it, then.

727
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: Right, thank you. I am deeply biased, but I admit it.

728
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,400
So I guess that means it's okay, Yeah, it so,

729
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,960
Kat versus Haliburton is tough and Jalen Williams is tough

730
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,559
over I mean Durant, Like you know, if it's it's

731
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:27,360
just I would just echo what you said about Durant.

732
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,519
I thought that was kind of what I was wrestling

733
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,159
with of like kind of similar to the Bonus. It's like, well,

734
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,800
but what are these numbers? What have they done? Like

735
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,760
what have they call? You know, is he I'm not

736
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,000
saying like he's just out there getting his in either

737
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:40,840
case for those guys, you know, it's like they don't

738
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,280
it's not like that. It's just look, are we gonna

739
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,599
We're not moving Kate off of here, like Kate I'm

740
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,119
gonna talk more about him. We're not moving edwards, you know.

741
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,639
So it's just we ran out of spots and cuts head.

742
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: The other thing I try, especially with all NBA, I

743
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,119
try to thinket I focus on more of the individual brilliance,

744
00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:00,199
which is Kevin Durant's strongest case, sure, but also like,

745
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:02,599
look at how out of place he would be on

746
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:04,559
this list relative to these other teams that are on there,

747
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:06,360
and if if this is because the Suns have just

748
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,280
tainted us too much, because they're just so fucking depressing. Yeah,

749
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,039
that's at least a little bit on Kevin Durant too, Like.

750
00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:16,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I think it's not Yeah, it's not his fault.

751
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: People could have him on I know people are gonna

752
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,880
have him on their all ebayems and I'm not. He's

753
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,599
been great. And the fact that I just coming back

754
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,079
like the injury that he did and just his age

755
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:29,280
and he's still able to do this. You put him

756
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,159
in like a really high functioning ecosystem, He's going to

757
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,679
be dominant and help you drive winning. I just think that, Like,

758
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,760
I just I don't think the defense is where it

759
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,119
was like kind of in the middle of the year

760
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,159
and just Phoenix being that bad with him on the floor.

761
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,719
I just like at least there's been at least Lebron

762
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,880
flipped the switch and so KD might have had that

763
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,760
higher baseline to begin the year, like Lebron like kind

764
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,159
of flipped the switch. And it's you know. The other

765
00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:57,400
thing too, is I hate talking about this stuff, but

766
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,440
everything matters. The leadership element here, like Lebron like being

767
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,719
on the Lakers and he didn't know about the like

768
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,639
maybe some people don't believe that, but he doesn't know

769
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:09,840
about the Luca Danta trade. Like the way you handle

770
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,280
that turnover. He actually handled it pretty well. You and

771
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,199
I have complaints about the things that Lebron says it does,

772
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,159
and so having that and then dealing with that type

773
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:19,239
of turnover in the middle of the year and still

774
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,840
figuring it out next to Luca, like that just adaptability.

775
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,360
I think that that's you know, there's value in that.

776
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:29,000
So I'm and to his secure in my opinion because

777
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,960
I feel the need to continuously justify it.

778
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think that's that's that's a

779
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,960
good place to move on. Mostly similar all NBA teams

780
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,480
for us, with a couple exceptions.

781
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: Did you struggle with why is an Anthony Edwards higher?

782
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,360
Because I was, like, he has a second team case

783
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,960
and I think if I had to bounce someone, it

784
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,559
probably would be Garland for Anthony Edwards. But I'm just

785
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:53,920
when I watch him, I just find myself thinking, like,

786
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,039
I just wish he was like twenty percent better as

787
00:36:57,039 --> 00:37:01,159
a playmaker and like consistently fifty team percent more engaged

788
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:02,880
on defense. And so it's just I'm calling him one

789
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,679
of like the fifteen most valuable players in the league

790
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:05,039
this year.

791
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:08,079
Speaker 2: But I would I would say that I think we

792
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:12,639
would both agree that like, this isn't what the award is,

793
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,199
but it's like we are starting a playoff series today,

794
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,480
Do you want Anthony Edwards on your team or Darius Garland.

795
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,480
I think, all things being equal, you just pick Edwards

796
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,679
because you know the level he can reach is just

797
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,360
higher because we've kind of seen it. But I don't.

798
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,480
I didn't have that hard a time because I just

799
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:30,159
think Garland. Just to use the Garland comparison, I'm not

800
00:37:30,159 --> 00:37:32,280
sure who I would be toggling if I were to

801
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,639
move Edwards up. It's just had a better season, like

802
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,880
just because of the playmaking stuff. Because to get back

803
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,239
to the bonus duranta of it all, it feels sometimes

804
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,119
like all the stuff Edwards is doing maybe because of

805
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:46,800
the the like if he playmaking and like the that

806
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,559
he really does subsist on a pretty heavy diet of

807
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,840
like hard shots, you know, like that that feels different

808
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,039
to me, and I don't I guess I'm not rewarding

809
00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:57,159
that as much as I do someone like Garland that

810
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,960
like is making other guys better and is taking better

811
00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:02,519
like that kind of thing. I don't know if that's fair.

812
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:03,559
That's just how I looked at it.

813
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to ask you was you were.

814
00:38:06,559 --> 00:38:09,840
I know you were struggling with the Haliburton inclusion, and

815
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,719
that's I think some if people focus on points per game,

816
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,199
then maybe they'll be there. But I think for what

817
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,320
like seventy percent of this season, he's absolutely been an

818
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,480
All NBA player, and I just might be over indexing

819
00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:22,480
on like that first third of the year where it

820
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,960
felt like he was so so.

821
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean in your that counts too, like

822
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,320
those games are equally valuable. I just kind of I guess,

823
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,719
I guess me putting him here is an endorsement of

824
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,400
the idea that he's more. This is more who he

825
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:40,360
is than he was to begin this season, which is

826
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,159
also because kind of a reverse of last year where

827
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:44,800
it's like, oh, I think that's who he is when

828
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,840
he's an MVP like top five guy and then is

829
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,039
terrible after the hamstring. I don't know, Can we just

830
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:53,400
combine his second half this year and first half last

831
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,800
year and put him on the first team.

832
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he would be like that. And also

833
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,840
I try really hard to put J dub on my team.

834
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,480
There's just there's too much offensive noise. Like he can

835
00:39:03,559 --> 00:39:05,599
hit some pretty big shots, but some of the efficiency

836
00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:07,920
on like his self created buckets or just we know

837
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,480
the I think when you've put him next to check

838
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:13,079
or Isaiah Hartenstein in the minutes without Shay, that's where

839
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:16,480
people overblow the concern with the non shame minutes. I

840
00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:19,440
just I couldn't quite get there because the offense feels

841
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,280
a tick or two like too low to put him

842
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,320
on this list for me right.

843
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 2: Now, I think his stretch as a center and some

844
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,320
of the rim protection numbers and some of the defensive

845
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,800
disruption numbers are carrying a lot of weight for me

846
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,159
here because I agree offensively he has not been as

847
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:38,400
good as last year, like that's just it's it's really

848
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,960
not that close from an efficiency standpoint. So I leaned

849
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,760
pretty heavily on like the total package to get him here.

850
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: He and honestly, for me, his total package Again, I

851
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,639
could be over indexing on this. It gets a little

852
00:39:49,639 --> 00:39:52,559
weaker when now like okay, the sample size with Hartenstein

853
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:55,199
end or hulkroom has expanded, so his defensive role is

854
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,199
not as just ridiculously heavy as it was two or

855
00:39:59,239 --> 00:39:59,800
three months ago.

856
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:02,159
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to unsee what he did as

857
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:04,840
a center, like I just that's it's hard to get

858
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:05,920
that out of my head.

859
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: Like the percentage of shots that he's contesting when he's

860
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,920
on the floor, he's dipped where he ranks him the percentile,

861
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,119
but he's still like eighty eight for the end. That's

862
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:14,400
fucking great.

863
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 2: And he can guard a point guard if you need

864
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,400
him too. So it's just like I didn't. I couldn't.

865
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:19,480
I couldn't leave him off.

866
00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:21,599
Speaker 1: Do you want to take us through Defensive Player of

867
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:21,920
the Year.

868
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: Yes, Uh, this will be relatively easy here. So I've

869
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:30,480
got MOBILEI one, Jaron Jackson two, didn't really give a

870
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:34,039
whole lot of thought to anyone besides those two. And

871
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:36,679
now that Wemby's out of it, and because Chet hasn't

872
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:39,239
played enough to qualify, like not even close, and then

873
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,400
I have Amen Thompson three. I am very much open

874
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,800
to like seven guys being third there. I just I

875
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,199
think he's a case. You remember how I used to say,

876
00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:52,760
like I only ever see good Gabe Vincent games, and

877
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,639
so I just think Gabe Vincent is great. This is

878
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:57,320
more the era. I think I only ever see a

879
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,559
great Amen Thompson games. And I've watched a lot of

880
00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:01,519
Rockets and so that leads me to believe that a

881
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:05,719
lot of his games are great. But just you should

882
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,880
have a big guy third, I think, because I just

883
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,239
argued in the MVP thing and I believe this that

884
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,960
big guys just tend to matter more. Thompson is just

885
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:16,760
the class of defender that ruins so much stuff in

886
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,800
so many areas on the floor. And I mean that

887
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,840
in the best way that I kind of just I

888
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,400
wanted to put him here because who cares him? Who's third?

889
00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:29,719
Just like he's so predatory and disruptive, and I just

890
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,320
I love watching him play defense, and like I think

891
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,599
you feel it, You feel him on the floor as

892
00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:38,000
an offense in ways that you don't really except for

893
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:40,519
like five other guys in the league that can guard

894
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:43,719
wings and stuff. And he's like a decent big guy defensively.

895
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,079
So I just I wanted to honor that by having

896
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:47,679
him third.

897
00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:51,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I have Zubats third for me, and I

898
00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:53,119
don't even feel great about it. I thought about Bam,

899
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:55,800
I thought about Rudy Gobert, I thought about the perimeter

900
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,960
guys I met, Thompson, lou Dort. I just like as

901
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,119
a rim deterrent, like Zubots is in the ninetieth percentile

902
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:04,719
of RIOM deterrence, and I think that he's more versatile

903
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,559
defensively than some of the like a go bear type

904
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:09,559
big where like his feet just seem a little bit

905
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,679
quicker and you could put him in slightly more difficult matchups.

906
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,800
The Clippers defense one, it's been incredible, and I think

907
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,119
when you get to the volume of it all, you

908
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:21,039
can't like reward Chris Dunn or Derek Jones Junior for that.

909
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:24,199
Zubots plays a shit ton of minutes. And it's not

910
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,559
just that the Clippers defense is good. They're third in

911
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:28,840
points of that perposition against top ten defenses, and so

912
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,000
like this is someone who's brand of defense is scaling

913
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,559
to some of the most difficult matchups. The Mobile versus Jackson,

914
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:39,320
with Wenby no longer eligible of it all, it's I

915
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,920
would say it's pretty close, but I think that when

916
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,920
you look at these two, they're not Neither of them

917
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,039
are just okay, like go check that guy for the

918
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:50,079
entire game when you need to erase them. That's not

919
00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:51,840
what they do, which is part of like why their

920
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,280
job description is so like expansive, and that helps make

921
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,679
their case. But mobiley can actually, I think do that

922
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,159
a little bit more than general I.

923
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,559
Speaker 2: Was gonna say sorry to jump ins like MOBILEI feels

924
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:05,599
like when you're describing what makes someone like Bam, who's

925
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:08,360
like historically one of the greatest switch defenders ever, when

926
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,079
you just the qualities you describe in Bam like pretty

927
00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:14,039
closely map onto Mobili in ways they don't with Jackson

928
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,639
for exactly what you're talking about.

929
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:18,679
Speaker 1: So and when you like dig into the numbers, so

930
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,800
like the percentage of shots that they're contesting when they're

931
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,800
on the floor, Evan Mobley's in the eighty fifth percentile

932
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,360
to Jaron Jackson Junior's fifty eighth. When you look at

933
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,079
RIM deterrence per one hundred possessions, Mobile's in the ninety

934
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:32,880
second percentile, Jaron Jackson Junior is in the sixty sixth

935
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:35,800
When you look at RIM points saved per one hundred possessions,

936
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,000
I think they're both in the ninety first percentile. I've

937
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,159
written down so it's just I mean. And then also

938
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,920
when they're playing center, like the Cavs are allowing one

939
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,599
hundred and eight point three points per possessions one hundred

940
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:51,159
possessions that is in the ninety second percentile. When Jaron

941
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,519
Jackson juniors at center, the Grizzlies are in the eighty

942
00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:56,880
second percent tile of defensive efficiency. I don't think you

943
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,360
can sit here and say in the maybe now that

944
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,119
they have DeAndre on the team, but otherwise, no, you

945
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:04,960
don't get this here and say like the Grizzlies have

946
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:07,800
a bunch of weaker defenders when Jared Jackson juniors at

947
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,239
center than Mobley would when he's in Cleveland at center.

948
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,000
So I think there's just there's enough distinction there to

949
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:16,079
where I believe this is close. I believe there's a

950
00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:19,079
case for Jared Jackson Jr. But when you look at

951
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:20,880
kind of the body and I know that he even

952
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,039
with Edie there, he doesn't have the quote unquote safety

953
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:27,920
net that a Jared Allen does, but that he does

954
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,639
then all these other things, and so I think that

955
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:35,280
his role is more malleable without ever really sacrifice sacrificing potency.

956
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I hate to just turn into like

957
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:43,119
high test and scouting report guy, but I have very

958
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:45,239
similar numbers to what you laid out, and it's just

959
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,800
like the numbers are favorable to Mobley that just you know,

960
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,519
whether you're talking as a perimeter defender or as an

961
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:55,519
interior like a rim protector. I think when you watch Mobiley,

962
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,519
doesn't he seem quicker than Jackson too. I think Jackson

963
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:02,360
sometimes plays like he's a little longer like he you know,

964
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,800
he'll get the oh he's beat and then he'll pin

965
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,719
it to the board anyway, like that kind of thing.

966
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,400
But I feel like Mobiley his ability to just stay

967
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,000
in front regardless of who he's matched up against foul.

968
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: That was the other thing.

969
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: A big differentiator Jackson has. It's it's not as bad

970
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,320
as it was, but yeah, Jackson does get himself like

971
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,800
on the bench because of too much fouling. But Mobiley

972
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,599
just feels more like he's actually a guard when he's

973
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:31,320
down in a stance on the perimeter. Who's six' eleven

974
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,440
and it just there's nobody there's SO i don't, know

975
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:37,480
Maybe BAM's the only other guy that it's just like

976
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,039
that guy's a guard and he's also an ace rim

977
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:42,760
protector Like jackson's. Great LIKE i don't, again this is

978
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,679
like THE mvp thing we're not taking away from. HIM

979
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:45,760
i just Think mobile's that.

980
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: Special it's funny that they both do have the same defining.

981
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,480
Weakness well maybe Because Jared Jacks junior is still get

982
00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:53,639
in foul. Trouble they. Don't but it's just AND i

983
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:55,519
know part of this is their job, description but even

984
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:57,480
when they're at the, five their team just still can't

985
00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:00,239
like hit the defensive. Glass, yeah it's just like they're

986
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,079
both just sort of in that same. Bucket you want

987
00:46:03,079 --> 00:46:04,920
to take us through what the all defense teams will.

988
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,679
Speaker 2: Be, yeah so again we're not actually that similar. Here

989
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,599
so we Both, Uh i'll just start with. MINE i

990
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:14,519
guess we both Have mobley And. Jackson OBVIOUSLY i got.

991
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,519
Speaker 1: Hire all defense.

992
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:18,599
Speaker 2: Team THAT'S i Got zubats as a first, Teamer so

993
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:23,679
shout out to your your dpoy order along With, Thompson Mobley,

994
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,960
JACKSON i Put Dyson daniels as my as my last first. Teamer,

995
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,880
again probably should be a big, guy but just like the,

996
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,719
defly well.

997
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: It's just, look could you, say like he maybe can't

998
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,840
shape an entire defensive system the same way a big guy.

999
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,119
Can but like exactly, fair they. Don't The hawks don't

1000
00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:45,039
have a big who can shape their system and so

1001
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:48,039
Having Dyson daniels just disrupt the. Fun and also WHAT

1002
00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:51,079
i will, say the number of just like part of

1003
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:52,880
it feels. RECKLESS i don't know if you ever watched

1004
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,519
him in the crunch, time but was where he forces

1005
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:58,440
a turnover on like these game deciding, Possessions, right he does,

1006
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,159
it and the fact they could do it is it's. Crazy.

1007
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,199
Speaker 2: NO i, mean, LOOK i feel Like i'm almost like

1008
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,320
arguing against it BECAUSE i do like If i'm starting

1009
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,480
a defense, TOMORROW i might pick SOMEONE i have on second,

1010
00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:17,639
team Like draymond Or autobio Or gobert Over. Daniels but

1011
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,360
if you're just talking about like what's happened this, season

1012
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,559
WHICH i guess is What I'm i'm doing a little,

1013
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:26,920
more his disruption is sort of, undeniable like because he's

1014
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,719
as impactful as you can. BE i think at his,

1015
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,639
position at that position right like he messes, Up he's

1016
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:37,960
on A thompson who Exceeds thompson as far as like forcing,

1017
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,559
turnovers getting, steals deflecting. PASSES i think in as like

1018
00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:45,159
a as an on ball well actually as like an

1019
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:48,119
off ball, defender like denying. TOUCHES i don't THINK i

1020
00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:51,159
saw anybody make it harder For Jalen brunson to get

1021
00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:53,159
the ball this, year or For Steph curry to get

1022
00:47:53,159 --> 00:47:56,079
the ball Than daniels, Did SO i guess in that,

1023
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,480
sense like you, know a big guy can't do. That

1024
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,000
he can't be the one that's like your best player

1025
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:04,079
can't catch the, Ball like he's not capable of doing.

1026
00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:05,960
That CAN i you maybe just think of someone want

1027
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,760
to ask you a, question and it's more, philosophical like about,

1028
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,119
defense if you're going up against a team that is

1029
00:48:13,199 --> 00:48:16,320
more heliocentric or has even if you don't want to

1030
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,639
call him that has the, okay like there's this one

1031
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,000
star and there's a question about the number, two not

1032
00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:22,880
that they're, bad.

1033
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: But can they actually drive the? Offense does someone Like

1034
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:29,440
Dyson daniels then have a case to be more important

1035
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,800
than like a big who's trying to anchor the back line?

1036
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: SPECIFICALLY i, think, well so let's just say it's the

1037
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,360
thunder because that's kind of what you're just like if

1038
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,039
you if you HAVE.

1039
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,519
Speaker 1: Sg JUST i, know like McHale bridges can get to

1040
00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:41,400
the mid range in towns on his. Drives but just,

1041
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,000
yeah you're kind of seeing like their limitations to The

1042
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:46,239
knicks offense Without jalen or even the way they run

1043
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,159
it in crunch Time Jalen brunst's uses rates like.

1044
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 2: Eighty, yeah it's. Interesting so in that hypothetically it is, like,

1045
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,719
yeah like what's the value of if you have zubots for,

1046
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,480
Example like how does zubots affect What Jalen brunson does you,

1047
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,800
know and, like would rather have going.

1048
00:49:01,679 --> 00:49:04,199
Speaker 1: Up against The knicks as your best defender Diceon daniels

1049
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,440
Or i'm Like zuba or Even Rudy gobert at this,

1050
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,440
point like one of those.

1051
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 2: Guys that's it's an interesting. QUESTION i don't. KNOW i

1052
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,760
think LIKE i think you probably maybe we over rate

1053
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,119
like how easy it is for someone Like daniels to stay,

1054
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:22,719
on you, know a singular offensive, player because there are,

1055
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,599
screens like he's gonna have to work his ass off

1056
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:26,320
to get over. Screens they're gonna try to get him.

1057
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,719
Away and if he is just face guarding that, guy

1058
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,719
then the other players get to play four on four

1059
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,119
and that's just easier to. SCORE i don't. KNOW i

1060
00:49:33,639 --> 00:49:38,320
STILL i think default to just bigs matter more like

1061
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:43,159
blanket statement to a defense than than. Smalls but that's

1062
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,519
a that's a good thought experiment BECAUSE i think that

1063
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:48,360
is a case where you might say someone Like, daniels

1064
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,440
who can just prevent your best player from touching the,

1065
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,400
Ball like maybe that does matter more than a go bear,

1066
00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:55,800
level like you, know rim. PROTECTOR i don't. KNOW i

1067
00:49:56,039 --> 00:49:58,480
THINK i think what you're helping me do is justify

1068
00:49:58,480 --> 00:49:59,199
Why daniels is.

1069
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,599
Speaker 1: HERE i THINK i. Have my point is THAT i

1070
00:50:01,639 --> 00:50:03,199
don't think you need to look at your first team and,

1071
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:03,960
say like go.

1072
00:50:04,039 --> 00:50:08,519
Speaker 2: Bear right, right Because gobert hasn't had like a great

1073
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:11,599
season by his, standard so and either bam not even.

1074
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,559
Speaker 1: Close just even when you look at like kind of

1075
00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:15,840
the percentage of shots he's contesting while on the. Floor,

1076
00:50:16,159 --> 00:50:18,519
yeah AND i like for a lot of those, minutes

1077
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:20,239
it's not, like oh, yeah they they want to use

1078
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,639
NOAs reed Or Julius randall is that guy like, No

1079
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,760
like part of that is, that you, know With Julius

1080
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:25,719
randall's job does get.

1081
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: Harder but, yeah just quickly through the rest of my second.

1082
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,320
Team Timani, KAMARA i think is just a menacing five position. Defender,

1083
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:34,880
Uh like.

1084
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: The base of a defense with, Him Donovan clingen And

1085
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,119
Denny avia moving forward is going to ruin.

1086
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 2: Lives portland is going to get a lot of, stops

1087
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,639
like as they, mature with this, course so and Then,

1088
00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:48,920
Bam bam And gobert are like partly kind of legacy,

1089
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,920
PICKS i, guess but it's like we all, agree like

1090
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,039
they're still really.

1091
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:55,519
Speaker 1: Good Like draymond's not a legacy, pick the Well.

1092
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: Draymond draymond gets that, too but a lot of the

1093
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,800
catch alls really like him still this, Year like he's

1094
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,800
way up there IN, dpm he's way up there in

1095
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,199
Defensive lebron and Then JADA i talked about him a fair,

1096
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,920
amount like the, versatility the moonlighting as a center for several,

1097
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,280
weeks and the fact that he can just guard one

1098
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,440
through four very. Comfortably is a good back line, guy

1099
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,920
which is weird for a. Wing so he was actually

1100
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:20,920
a pretty easy. Inclusion the rest of these guys were

1101
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,159
All Maybe kamara was pretty easy as a second team or,

1102
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:26,119
two but the rest of them definitely there's arguments against

1103
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:26,920
who'd you have.

1104
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: So a first? TEAM i Have Evan, Mobley Jared, Jackson Junior, Visa.

1105
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,519
Zoobots so it was for my top THREE. Dpo WHY

1106
00:51:34,639 --> 00:51:37,119
i still Have. Bam you called him a legacy. PICK

1107
00:51:37,159 --> 00:51:38,960
i just think he's still really. Good there's some noise

1108
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,719
and he's never going to be the best rim, protector

1109
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,840
but you talk about not having a ton of like

1110
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,360
defensive talent around. Him Jimmy butler wasn't really playing this.

1111
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,880
Year hayward High smith missed some. Time Jimai hawkes is

1112
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,639
just sort of. Deteriorated you're playing a ton of minutes

1113
00:51:51,679 --> 00:51:53,719
With Tyler herro and The heat are still on above average.

1114
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,000
DEFENSE i just bam feels, like and this is a

1115
00:51:57,039 --> 00:51:59,039
cop app because we're using numbers to justify a lot

1116
00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:00,920
of our. PICKS i don't know if ever gonna be

1117
00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:05,360
numbers that adequately quantify how good Bam adebayo is on. Defense,

1118
00:52:05,639 --> 00:52:08,360
yeah and THEN i Have Lou. Dort this is just

1119
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,119
he has the toughest matchup difficulty of anyone on The

1120
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:15,679
thunder every single, night and he is impossible to. Screen

1121
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:18,320
he's probably not as versatile as some of these other,

1122
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,760
guys but we talk a lot about like go out

1123
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,719
there and it's if it's not shut that person, down

1124
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,920
defend him for thirty five minutes a night while just being,

1125
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,760
screened and like having to fight around those. Things he

1126
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,239
just does it better than perhaps anybody else in the.

1127
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,280
League so AND i find myself Maybe i'm over correcting

1128
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,079
here BECAUSE i don't necessarily want to say he's, underrated

1129
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:40,239
BUT i just feel like he's underappreciated because of how

1130
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,079
good The thunder are and even on. Offense not germane

1131
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:45,760
to this, discussion but what IF i always said there's

1132
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,320
value in the volume and like he's hitting his, Threes

1133
00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:50,880
so it's just there's just no hesitation from. Him yet

1134
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,880
you don't necessarily love, it like his off the dribble,

1135
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,840
adventures but this is just a. Player when you look

1136
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,079
at the arc of his, career it's just been so

1137
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,119
fun to watch AND i, LIKE i still believe that

1138
00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:03,920
he is one of the most impactful defenders on the,

1139
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,119
game that The thunders defense would look materially different without,

1140
00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:10,239
him especially because you've had to deal with so many

1141
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:11,280
injuries on the front.

1142
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 2: Line, yeah he Allows williams and like Even Cason wallace

1143
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,960
and Certainly sga to like move down a peg in

1144
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,760
the like how tough is my matchup? List which is

1145
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,280
that's super valuable to that. DEFENSE i felt bad about

1146
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:24,760
leaving him.

1147
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,679
Speaker 1: OFF i Have Dyson daniels on second. TEAM i thought

1148
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:29,639
about putting him Over bam for first, team so that

1149
00:53:29,679 --> 00:53:33,119
was really Close Toamani kamara easy. Inclusion i've got back

1150
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:35,039
on fourth On draymond this. YEAR i had him as

1151
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,480
one of MY dpoy top threes earlier in the. YEAR

1152
00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:40,960
i think he's still been really, good and like the

1153
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,320
way he's able to direct the defense while still handling

1154
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,880
all this stuff head a head and feet on. Swivels

1155
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,760
Also Golden state's defense like for the Year grant sixth

1156
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:52,920
in points a lot per possession against top ten. Offenses

1157
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,239
that's like the. Defense and but look at, Like, Okay

1158
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,119
Andrew wiggins was not as good this year as he

1159
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:00,840
was last. Year you've been giving minutes to, like look

1160
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,199
at where the rotation was at one, point Like Gary payton's,

1161
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,400
second the second has not looked the same until recently

1162
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,079
or as good as he was until. Recently so it's

1163
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:11,360
not like they've had they were forcing a ton of

1164
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,320
turnovers at the beginning of the. Year there was that hot,

1165
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,840
start but to be there that shows a ton of

1166
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,000
value For. Draymond Rudy gobert even like fifty percent Of

1167
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:21,039
Rudy gobert is still just an elite defender in the

1168
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,440
especially during the regular. Season at this point THAT i

1169
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,239
Have Amed thompson on second team as.

1170
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: Well, YEAH i would just like to point out how

1171
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,400
good of a team we could put together if injuries

1172
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,559
weren't a, factor because you could Have wemby and like

1173
00:54:31,639 --> 00:54:37,719
game Limits, wemby Check. CARUSO i don't know who Else mark's, got, Yeah.

1174
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:43,760
Hartenstein so we just quickly because we're already running. ALONG

1175
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,920
i think it's weird that we don't Have. Og tell

1176
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,599
me Why og is not on either of our.

1177
00:54:50,599 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: Teams knicks are not a good defensive. Team. Now he's

1178
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,239
a great defensive, player, right and the breadth of his

1179
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,039
responsibility is kind of insane when you're looking at, this

1180
00:54:59,199 --> 00:55:02,440
but the breadth of that responsibility is not translated to

1181
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:07,559
like long standing defensive competence just. Yet and like someone Like,

1182
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:10,360
OKAY i guess you could use, Well Dyson daniels is on,

1183
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,199
here and And lanti's had when you're looking through the,

1184
00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:16,199
season there's just been periods where their defense has been really.

1185
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,239
Good he could be on, here like he's among the

1186
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,239
long list of honorable. Mentions BUT i think if you're,

1187
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,679
Like i'm gonna like the individual assignments that he's gonna take,

1188
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,280
on like those can be, absurd and like the stuff

1189
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:29,679
that he's gonna have to do is kind of like

1190
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,400
the quasi bigot. POINTS i don't think he's actually as

1191
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,800
good at that stuff as other people. Believe like someone

1192
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,280
like a like A bam can do, that A Tamani

1193
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,360
kamara can do. That draymond can certainly do that as

1194
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,519
the other. One so if you were to like put

1195
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:47,000
him in here OVER i don't, know Like Ahman thompson

1196
00:55:47,119 --> 00:55:48,559
or man, like who would be the player that you?

1197
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:50,000
Bump that's the.

1198
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:53,599
Speaker 2: Thing, YEAH i don't. Know that's always the. Thing it's,

1199
00:55:53,639 --> 00:55:55,480
like well what about this? Guy, okay who are you kicking?

1200
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:57,679
Off and then it gets it becomes a different. CONVERSATION

1201
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,800
i just it struck me that BECAUSE i thought about,

1202
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:00,840
HIM i just couldn't get.

1203
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: There there's a couple of he is the reason the

1204
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,559
mixed floor has not completely fallen out from under, them

1205
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:10,519
but he's not even been enough against better. Offenses And

1206
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:13,000
i've honestly been just what you're getting from him on,

1207
00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:15,320
Offense i've been more impressed with him what you're getting

1208
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,320
from him on. Defense so maybe that sort of scus

1209
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,480
my thinking a little. Bit, yeah we move on To

1210
00:56:19,679 --> 00:56:23,800
rookie of The. YEAR i Have Jalen, Wells Steph, castle

1211
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,800
And Donovan klinkan is my top. Three you Have Jalen,

1212
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,840
Wells Steph, castle And Zach edy as so it's like,

1213
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,840
same basically the. Same and then we have our bigot.

1214
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,639
Third The Jalen wells Versus Steph castle, DEBATE i think

1215
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,719
is the most fascinating of. This so what determined it for?

1216
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:44,079
Speaker 2: You, YEAH i firmly think, that like this is a.

1217
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:47,280
REVELATION i Think castle has the highest ceiling in this.

1218
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,000
CLASS i think he's the most Likely All. STAR i

1219
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,280
think he will be the best player in the. Class,

1220
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,079
uh but he's just it really has heated, up has

1221
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:59,639
had some good stretches. Lately the full season numbers are

1222
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:02,480
just like he's not an efficient enough shooter or. Scorer

1223
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:07,199
like it's really damaging offensively and it's just an efficiency.

1224
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,280
QUESTION i actually think he mostly makes good. DECISIONS i

1225
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,000
like his. FEEL i think he's gonna be like a smart.

1226
00:57:13,079 --> 00:57:16,199
Passer he is a good, driver he's a good like

1227
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,800
his FINISHING i think can be. Great i'm talking about

1228
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:22,360
all these things like that will happen for him compared To,

1229
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,800
wells who from the jump has just been a good

1230
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,199
starter for a good. Team that's what it comes down.

1231
00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:32,480
To like he has tough defensive. Assignments he's a good

1232
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:35,880
enough three point shooter to be honored by, defenses doesn't

1233
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,480
make a lot of, mistakes play super, hard is totally

1234
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,840
an additive component to his, team which is better Than castle's.

1235
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:47,800
Team castle it's sometimes as a like legitimately negative influence

1236
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,039
on the bottom line this personal care because they're not

1237
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:52,400
where The grizzlies are in the, Standings but like that

1238
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:55,280
is the distinction really to. Me So castle will be,

1239
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,119
Better he's not. Better he has not been better over

1240
00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:01,920
the bulk of. This that's really that's the best CASE

1241
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,440
i can, make is that where you come down on.

1242
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: It, yeah and you could make the case, That, okay

1243
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,119
he does more on, offense so it's harder Than Jalen.

1244
00:58:08,119 --> 00:58:10,360
Wells But Jalen wells plays within his role on offense

1245
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,000
and is good at. It AND i think no one

1246
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:15,480
in the league has spent more time guarding number one

1247
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:17,800
options Than Jalen wells this. Year so it's just LIKE

1248
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,559
i don't view him his all defense, caliber but the

1249
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,039
fact that he's a good defender in that role when

1250
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:23,960
going up against. Guys when you look at his he's

1251
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,800
listed at six to, seven so it's not like he's too.

1252
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,440
Small his frame is just so slight compared to a

1253
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,599
lot of those. Guys and he's always, Fight like even

1254
00:58:30,599 --> 00:58:32,000
if you watch him guard in the, post it's not

1255
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,239
always gonna end, Well like that dude's putting up a

1256
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,960
ton of. Fight and the fact that there's been this

1257
00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:40,760
equilibrium of good and productive for the entire, year and

1258
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,039
it's on a team that fancy like that might just

1259
00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:46,800
be a title contender and that doesn't have like he's

1260
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,800
there out of, necessity but it's not. Bad like in the,

1261
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,679
playoffs it's, Okay like who's gonna? Defend do you want

1262
00:58:52,719 --> 00:58:55,519
him Defending Lebron? No probably not in the playoffs Or Luca,

1263
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:58,719
No but like he's just been, Good and SO i

1264
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,079
think That i'm with you That Steph cassel clearly has

1265
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:05,679
the higher, ceiling has probably had the higher pinnacles at

1266
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:08,320
like the, moments but like their moments and so stringing them.

1267
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,000
Together just when it comes To rookie of The, YEAR

1268
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:12,960
i think some people are probably gonna like not even

1269
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,599
have him second because of the inefficiency on, Offense like

1270
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:18,119
even the rim finishing has dipped a little, Bit So

1271
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:22,480
i'm with everything you said. There, Uh edie Versus klingon

1272
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,760
was the thing THAT i was And Reesa shay kind

1273
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,079
of all sprinkled in here for. Me die has more.

1274
00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:31,920
Minutes he's shooting thirty six percent from. THREE i just

1275
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,039
Watched Donovan clingon on, defense and this comes with the

1276
00:59:35,079 --> 00:59:37,800
caveat THAT i was out On. Donovan like, remember coming

1277
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,400
into the, DRAFT i, SAID i don't know why they

1278
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,480
ever took. Him, yeah, yeah he is a defensive cap sock.

1279
00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:46,480
Force he moves his heat a lot better and like

1280
00:59:46,519 --> 00:59:48,440
THAN i thought he was going to as a help,

1281
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,960
defender like coming in and like or the amount of

1282
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,599
guys he might cover on one, play and he's he's

1283
00:59:53,639 --> 00:59:56,199
a real rim deterrent and like he's gonna get shot sent,

1284
00:59:56,239 --> 00:59:59,440
back but he's also gonna like dissuade players from ever

1285
00:59:59,519 --> 01:00:01,480
going in there and taking looks at the.

1286
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:05,199
Speaker 2: Rim, yeah this WAS I it Was edie Or. CLINGING

1287
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,239
i didn't really think. That like riche has kind of

1288
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,119
Like castle really heat it, up, like has shot it

1289
01:00:10,199 --> 01:00:13,239
much better, lately is starting to REALLY i think he's

1290
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,199
gonna be a good starter for a long. TIME i

1291
01:00:15,239 --> 01:00:19,039
don't know what beyond, that maybe for, ME i went With.

1292
01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:22,119
Edie the minutes are he's got more, minutes but it's

1293
01:00:22,159 --> 01:00:23,960
like a one, hundred so it's you, know it's like a

1294
01:00:24,039 --> 01:00:27,159
little over one thousand for for, him in a little

1295
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,760
like nine forty something for. CLINGING i think the, DIFFERENCE

1296
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,960
i think clingon's a better. DEFENDER i think you will

1297
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,880
be a better defender like shot, blocker, rebounder that kind of.

1298
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,679
THING i Think edie's offensive ceiling is like pretty interesting

1299
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,639
because of the, shooting AND i think his offensive, impact

1300
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,480
partly because of, that has just been better like. Clinging,

1301
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:48,519
STILL i don't know what clinging is offensively.

1302
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,199
Speaker 1: His touch and finishing a round of basket or.

1303
01:00:51,239 --> 01:00:54,159
Speaker 2: Not it feels like that's at, best that's gonna be

1304
01:00:54,199 --> 01:00:55,960
like a break even thing for, him where he's, like,

1305
01:00:56,039 --> 01:01:00,400
OKAY i DON'T i don't, know go. Bear you could

1306
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,599
say similar things about just like the guy can't catch the,

1307
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:05,719
ball it just moves. Awkwardly that's kind of kind of similar.

1308
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,280
Stuff edie's a little. Different SO i went with the

1309
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,599
offensive pluses for him over the defensive pluses for. Clinging

1310
01:01:11,639 --> 01:01:13,519
but it's super. Close could have gone either way.

1311
01:01:13,519 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: HERE i have wondered If klingon will be at least

1312
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,320
a league average relative to position finisher once The blazers

1313
01:01:20,559 --> 01:01:22,360
or if The blazers ever have more space around, him

1314
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,519
because he's already a really good, screeners as Is edie

1315
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:26,920
AND i also one of the things that kind of

1316
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,480
came into. FOCUS i Know edie's logged more minutes and

1317
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:32,320
CLINGING i think only Just eclipse thirty minutes per, gate

1318
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,199
like thirty minutes in a single game for the first. Time,

1319
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,360
yeah and he did them. Consecutively When i'm watching, them

1320
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,039
it's like clinging stamina at this point of the, year

1321
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:43,239
feels like it might be a little better Than. Zach EDI's.

1322
01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 2: INTERESTING i was gonna, SAY i Think edie moves a little,

1323
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,599
better like just He's klingon's just so, big like he's

1324
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:52,440
one of those guys like he stands out, like, man

1325
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:53,960
how do you ever get a shot over that? Guy

1326
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,559
or how do you ever move him out of rebounding.

1327
01:01:55,559 --> 01:01:58,599
POSITION i feel Like edie might be a little like

1328
01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:01,920
he's not as just, BULKY i, guess But edie's huge.

1329
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,880
TOO i feel Like edie moves a little, better but

1330
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,400
it's like who cares because, Defensively clingon doesn't need to

1331
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,480
move that well north.

1332
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: SOUTH i would, agree but laterally it feels like it's.

1333
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,079
Closed i'm again coming out of the, DRAFT i said

1334
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:14,800
they should have just Taken Zach edy is gonna be

1335
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:15,599
way better Than Donovan.

1336
01:02:15,639 --> 01:02:17,239
Speaker 2: Klingons, yeah we'll.

1337
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: See did you consider anybody else aside from these four

1338
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:24,119
that we've talked? About not? Real, Seriously, NO i will

1339
01:02:24,119 --> 01:02:26,239
say when we were talking about The Hardest, awards maybe

1340
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,599
it should be all rookie BECAUSE i kind of once

1341
01:02:28,639 --> 01:02:30,639
you get past the top three or even top, five

1342
01:02:30,679 --> 01:02:32,679
it feels like anyone could be on. Here so my,

1343
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,760
all we have the same all rookie, teams, right just

1344
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,920
the exact same. One so our all rookie, teams, uh Jayellen,

1345
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,960
Wells Steph, Castle Donovan clinkin first team along With zacharysiche

1346
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:45,239
And Zach edy second. Team where it gets very, interesting

1347
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,199
we Have Eves Mec Kyle. Philipowski really it's come, on

1348
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,519
like the things he can do offensively are things like

1349
01:02:52,639 --> 01:02:54,719
any anything you want a big man to, do he can,

1350
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,480
do and then stuff that you want a wing to,

1351
01:02:56,519 --> 01:02:58,800
do he will also do those, things which is a.

1352
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: Pretty big surprise to, Me LIKE i just didn't know

1353
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,280
that he had that kind of versatility, offensively some.

1354
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:06,039
Speaker 1: Of the stuff putting the ball on the like the, Shot,

1355
01:03:06,119 --> 01:03:07,760
okay we knew that was gonna be, fine but like

1356
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:09,480
the running the, floor like being able to put the

1357
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:13,079
ball on the. Deck we Have Alex sar we have.

1358
01:03:13,239 --> 01:03:15,559
Here the numbers are not gonna be kind to, him

1359
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:17,639
and like he kind of hit that he went mid

1360
01:03:17,679 --> 01:03:19,559
season where it felt like he hit That apex was

1361
01:03:19,559 --> 01:03:21,920
like he's hitting threes and like it looks like he's

1362
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,400
connecting better on. Screens all that stuff is faded, basically

1363
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,559
and the defensive numbers are not kind to. Him but

1364
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:29,960
he is very. Active he, Contests he's in like the

1365
01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:33,440
ninety nine percent tile shots consent percentage of shots contested

1366
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,199
at the. BASKET i JUST i, appreciate like the volume

1367
01:03:37,239 --> 01:03:39,920
and the level of difficulty of his. Role so it's

1368
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,760
sort of like a Miniature Steph castle case on, offense

1369
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,079
WHERE i appreciated the alextars responsible for on. Defense and

1370
01:03:46,119 --> 01:03:48,920
Then i'm not gonna say he's gonna wind up being,

1371
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,800
There but Like Bub, carrington like building, block that dude

1372
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,480
is JUST i don't care that he doesn't get to the.

1373
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:54,760
BASKET i just don't.

1374
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:58,599
Speaker 2: Care He's i'm trying to think of the. Comparison, well

1375
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:02,320
guys talking to somebody about. This, oh it's it's kind of,

1376
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,880
LIKE i Think carrington can be better than. This but

1377
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,559
it was like when The warriors Drafted moody And kaminga

1378
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:10,440
in the same, class where it's like one pretty high,

1379
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,199
floor not super high, ceiling That's, moody That's, carrington and

1380
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:17,920
then one like really low, floor very high ceiling that's

1381
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,079
The sar cominga part of. IT i Think carrington is

1382
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:23,639
gonna be, Good LIKE i feel pretty confident that he'll

1383
01:04:23,679 --> 01:04:26,119
be just the stuff he, does like his comfort on the,

1384
01:04:26,119 --> 01:04:28,519
Ball LIKE i do think he needs to develop more

1385
01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:31,199
of a side step pump fake into a three instead

1386
01:04:31,199 --> 01:04:34,000
of the it's like step, in you, know because he

1387
01:04:34,039 --> 01:04:36,000
takes a lot of longer. Two is THAT i don't, love,

1388
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:40,039
uh but good passer like good, Frame, LIKE i think

1389
01:04:40,119 --> 01:04:42,840
he's gonna be. Solid sar is just, like let me

1390
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,840
ask you About, Sar like the inefficiency is pretty, glaring

1391
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,199
like even at like a historic level as a, Center

1392
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:52,960
like how poorly he. Finishes do you think that's because you? Hear,

1393
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,920
oh he just needs to get. Stronger do you think

1394
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,760
it's that or because Where i'm at is LIKE i

1395
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,360
really don't know if he's got like the TUT i

1396
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,159
don't like to ever be like a. Great some guys

1397
01:05:03,199 --> 01:05:05,880
just never become good, finishers like bis Mack biambo got real,

1398
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,119
Strong like he's just doesn't have the finishing ability like

1399
01:05:09,159 --> 01:05:11,880
when he's off. Balance so, like where do you fall

1400
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:16,960
on star like his? POTENTIAL i guess as like an efficient.

1401
01:05:17,079 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: SCORER i think there's gonna he's gonna have to reach

1402
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,079
a point AND i don't necessarily know if there's someone

1403
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:25,360
on his team that can help him get there where

1404
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,039
it's uh, yes, strong being stronger would, help but, like

1405
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:31,519
can you get these sort of just easy lobs to

1406
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:34,039
finish more above the? Rim BECAUSE i think that he

1407
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:36,719
can at least do, That but, like does he have

1408
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,599
anyone on his team, that like right now who would

1409
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:43,719
be their best their best passer is Like. CARRINGTON i

1410
01:05:43,719 --> 01:05:45,519
mean it's Not Marcus are they have brogged in on that,

1411
01:05:45,559 --> 01:05:47,960
Team SO i guess he's, There but like SO i

1412
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:51,039
think it's gonna matter who's the primary playmaker around, Him

1413
01:05:51,079 --> 01:05:53,039
AND I i think that there's real you know you're

1414
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:55,639
talking about Up, Charrington like he is real on ball,

1415
01:05:55,679 --> 01:05:57,599
poison like his ability to again the, lane get to a,

1416
01:05:57,599 --> 01:06:00,880
spot not, panic maintain his. Dribble now he's hitting more

1417
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,400
of his jumpers and he was always kind of hitting

1418
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,480
his pull up. Twos for this, Year, yeah THE tsar

1419
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:07,880
question is is going to be fascinating? THERE i think

1420
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,239
HE i honestly think like he might be more of

1421
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,679
just like the pick and pop type big and where

1422
01:06:13,679 --> 01:06:16,039
you're getting most of your value from him long term is,

1423
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:18,280
oh he's our defensive anchor and it's working.

1424
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 2: Out which if that's what he, becomes that would be,

1425
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,599
Great like that's totally. FINE i think if he's a

1426
01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:26,800
spacer of any level and he can be BECAUSE i

1427
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,519
think we both agree his defensive ceilings pretty, high LIKE i,

1428
01:06:29,519 --> 01:06:32,880
think and it's like pretty. Reachable LIKE i think he's

1429
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,840
gonna be a good defensive. Player if he can just

1430
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,800
be a, spacer that's that would be awesome BECAUSE i

1431
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,719
don't think he's going to be a great. Finisher can he.

1432
01:06:40,719 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: Even do like The Christaps porzingis thing at some point

1433
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,519
because we've seen his touch from three at points this.

1434
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:47,480
Season it's where it's, okay you're throwing him the ball

1435
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,000
on the. Block he's not really like posting up or

1436
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:52,679
attacking guys and like putting his shoulder and elbows and

1437
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,880
it's he's turning and firing like he could probably be

1438
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,920
at least that's not outside the realm of possibility for

1439
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:58,519
him right doing.

1440
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:00,559
Speaker 2: Something, yeah, yeah WHAT i DON'T i don't see is

1441
01:07:00,639 --> 01:07:05,079
like just like a patient like craftsman like around the,

1442
01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:07,880
basket like he just that's not and maybe as he

1443
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,920
gets stronger that that really will solve a lot of.

1444
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,639
It i'm Just i'm pretty skeptical on his. Finishing but like,

1445
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,360
again he's played less than one, season So i'll chill.

1446
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 3: Out.

1447
01:07:17,039 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 1: Uh Eves mecI what a fine by The pelicans this.

1448
01:07:19,559 --> 01:07:21,719
Year dude to be a monster on the offensive glass

1449
01:07:21,719 --> 01:07:24,079
he's got like he's gotten a lot both him And

1450
01:07:24,119 --> 01:07:25,880
i'll even say, this like the Minutes i've seen From

1451
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,199
Carlo makovic got a lot better moving the floor like

1452
01:07:29,239 --> 01:07:31,239
Around zion and the fact Like mesi's not a flour

1453
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,599
spacer to, him kind of understanding where to be When

1454
01:07:33,639 --> 01:07:36,320
zion has the, ball big. DEAL i find myself wishing

1455
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,639
though that he would do like all the traditional big

1456
01:07:38,679 --> 01:07:40,920
man stuff for the most, part LIKE i don't, know

1457
01:07:41,039 --> 01:07:42,199
ten to twenty percent.

1458
01:07:42,239 --> 01:07:46,159
Speaker 2: Better, YEAH i mean this is His he's again the

1459
01:07:46,199 --> 01:07:48,719
angle on him is like what a what a like

1460
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,039
great find for the for The pelicans that needed a

1461
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:54,480
guy at that exact, Position but like his inclusion on

1462
01:07:54,519 --> 01:07:56,599
an all rookie team is a pretty good illustration of,

1463
01:07:56,599 --> 01:07:58,840
like this actually is not a great rookie, Class like big.

1464
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,000
Surprise we've been talking about it since before it was.

1465
01:08:01,079 --> 01:08:03,599
Speaker 1: Drafted where do you land? On Kohlil?

1466
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:07,199
Speaker 2: Ware SO i liked him a lot from the preseason

1467
01:08:07,199 --> 01:08:09,519
where it's, like oh my, god this guy can you,

1468
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:12,199
know get passes at the top of the, square like

1469
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,039
might be able to shoot it. Too that's kind of

1470
01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:16,199
WHERE i was, LIKE i, mean Now i've just DECIDED

1471
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:18,600
i was buying stock at that. Point was that at the.

1472
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: Time we were all PURCHASING O ryan dunstock because of

1473
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:21,119
what he was.

1474
01:08:21,119 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 2: Shooting oh, Absolutely it was probably before that actually he

1475
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,239
was like A Summer League, like holy, shit, GUY i feel,

1476
01:08:26,239 --> 01:08:30,479
like but, yeah similar. TIMEFRAME i still think offensively he

1477
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:32,760
can be a real weapon because of like he can

1478
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,399
get The DeAndre jordan lobs that were just, like oh,

1479
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,279
god no one's going up to get, That like it's

1480
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:41,079
an impossible play to. Defend he really does need to get,

1481
01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:43,520
stronger though you see him get moved pretty, easily and

1482
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:48,239
then defensively he looks like a. Rookie he just you,

1483
01:08:48,279 --> 01:08:51,319
know isn't reacting quite quickly. ENOUGH i THINK i, think

1484
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,039
like just as a like the raw tools, ARE i

1485
01:08:55,079 --> 01:08:57,439
think he might be something LIKE i think he's going

1486
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:58,960
to be better than ME. C i think he's probably

1487
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,600
going to be better THAN sarw honestly, so but like

1488
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:05,479
he's not there. YET i just kind of like the

1489
01:09:06,039 --> 01:09:08,239
thumbnail sketch of what he could be a little.

1490
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:11,119
Speaker 1: Better, yeah the thumbnail sketch is a great way to phrase,

1491
01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:12,640
it BECAUSE i think you look at he's the player

1492
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,439
that you, WATCH i mean on, defense you watch him

1493
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,760
and you're, like, oh, okay maybe maybe. Not but on

1494
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,479
offense it's always sub thirty percent from. Three but you

1495
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,760
just think that he's going to space the floor and

1496
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,079
it's you, know he's only like he's shooting about league

1497
01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:27,000
average at the rim for someone his, size and it's

1498
01:09:27,039 --> 01:09:28,680
just well you can kind of see because the way

1499
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,760
that he can get up there and like finish above the,

1500
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:32,960
rim that number is gonna come up he's even hit

1501
01:09:33,319 --> 01:09:35,520
like some like little short mid. Rangers it's, like and

1502
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,119
he has some ball. Skills so you just watch him and, it's,

1503
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:41,239
oh he's going to be. Good the numbers like some

1504
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:42,920
of them might support, it which is why it's like

1505
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:46,560
easy to put him, Here BUT i. DON'T I i

1506
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:48,800
think he's gonna be, good But i'm PROBABLY i wouldn't

1507
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:50,760
be ready to, say, oh he's gonna be better than

1508
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:53,840
h would you, Say Zach? Edi is? That or?

1509
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,319
Speaker 2: SO i think he's Like sar and Me, SI i

1510
01:09:56,359 --> 01:09:57,800
think he could be better than both of those.

1511
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: GUYS i think he can for. SURE i GUESS i

1512
01:10:00,199 --> 01:10:02,079
just not. Ready he seems still too much of like

1513
01:10:02,119 --> 01:10:03,199
this raw blank. Canvas.

1514
01:10:03,399 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 2: Right, well there's a scenario where he's just kind of

1515
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,560
this guy and it's, like so we got a like

1516
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,720
A JaVale McGee situation basically where it's like he's gonna

1517
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:13,880
have a, career but he's not gonna be like a

1518
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,399
difference making starter outside of maybe a year or. Two

1519
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:21,119
that's possible. Too, oh most improved, man we can have

1520
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:23,680
the conversation about what this award. Means i'll just lay

1521
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,319
this out. Here so you've Got Trey. Murphy the third

1522
01:10:26,359 --> 01:10:28,920
WHO i already am annoyed THAT i didn't include on

1523
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:33,560
my Ballot Evan, Mobley Kid. CUNNINGHAM i Have, Cunningham, Mobley Christian.

1524
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,920
Brown do you should SHOULD? I BECAUSE i feel LIKE

1525
01:10:38,399 --> 01:10:40,279
i know you And mord have talked about, this And

1526
01:10:40,399 --> 01:10:45,239
i've definitely seen the just general discussion on like should should,

1527
01:10:45,319 --> 01:10:48,119
this Should kate even be a consideration for this? Award

1528
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:52,279
and should second your players be a? Consideration my quick

1529
01:10:52,279 --> 01:10:56,600
two cents ARE i think because this award does not

1530
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,840
have like flat criteria or exclusion for certain types of,

1531
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,560
PLAYERS i tend to look at like how big is

1532
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,159
the improvement and how consequential is? It and so inherently

1533
01:11:08,199 --> 01:11:12,279
that makes me skew more towards players that like elevate

1534
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:17,840
themselves from in this case very good to like great

1535
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,560
as an overused, term but to Use Kid's cunningham never

1536
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,159
been An All, star is gonna make an is gonna

1537
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:25,279
skip right past that step and Be All star And

1538
01:11:25,359 --> 01:11:28,399
ALL nba this year and is now like pretty viably the,

1539
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,960
cornerstone singular most important player on a team that could

1540
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,920
finish fourth in The. East like, that that level of

1541
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,880
improvement is to me more consequential than he's not included.

1542
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,439
Here but someone Like Norm powell who just has a

1543
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,760
scoring boost gets, better but it's like all, right or

1544
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,600
someone that goes from like out of the league basically

1545
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,720
to good rotation. Player Ty jerome is the example of.

1546
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: THAT I i just view the.

1547
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:59,279
Speaker 2: Like the aid to the location of POINT a and

1548
01:11:59,359 --> 01:12:02,960
POINT b In cunningham's leap means more to me than

1549
01:12:03,279 --> 01:12:06,560
it would at a lower. Level so that's like my nutshell.

1550
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,520
Case AND i if that's not what you think this award,

1551
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,079
is THEN i have no issue With kade just not

1552
01:12:12,159 --> 01:12:12,880
being on someone's.

1553
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:18,319
Speaker 1: BALLOT i tend to gravitate towards the level of difficulty

1554
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:20,880
on the leap and so a lot of the, times

1555
01:12:21,079 --> 01:12:24,439
AND i think that then does dovetail with your focus

1556
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,039
on the consequence of that, leap where It's, okay What

1557
01:12:27,079 --> 01:12:30,399
Ti jerome as an, example like the improvement is, Obvious

1558
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:33,319
it made The cavaliers, deeper makes his free agency super,

1559
01:12:33,359 --> 01:12:36,239
Interesting like what type he was working off such a

1560
01:12:36,239 --> 01:12:38,239
low baseline that the player he came. Into, okay the

1561
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:41,079
leap itself is, massive but how much of an impact

1562
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:43,479
is that having on The. Cavaliers, no to, me it

1563
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,680
matters more That Evan mobley taking and making more, threes

1564
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,840
finishing through, contact making better reads as a. Passer that

1565
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,119
fucking matters. More and it's a harder leap to make

1566
01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:55,920
because he went in my, eyes and you can, disagree

1567
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,359
which is also. Fair in my, eyes he went from

1568
01:12:58,399 --> 01:13:01,560
Fringe All star to AN mp. Candidate, yeah that Is

1569
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,399
that's an Incredible it's like asking a team like going

1570
01:13:04,399 --> 01:13:06,880
from a fifty five win team to a sixty five

1571
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,479
win team versus going from a twenty five win team

1572
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:10,199
to a forty win.

1573
01:13:10,279 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 2: Team that's exactly HOW i view. It it's like that

1574
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,840
let that's just. Harder that's it's. Harder like a lot

1575
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:17,880
of a lot of players could go from zero to.

1576
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,159
Ty jerome or certainly more than could go from Where

1577
01:13:21,239 --> 01:13:23,399
cad And mobiley were last year to where they are this.

1578
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: Year that's EXACTLY i think of. IT i think where

1579
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:29,319
consequence and demonstration gets very. Interesting is a case Like Trey,

1580
01:13:29,399 --> 01:13:32,159
murphy who can he has missed sixteen, games SO i

1581
01:13:32,199 --> 01:13:34,760
have him. Here we did note this last time we did,

1582
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,600
THIS i, Said i'm just monitoring. Him he hasn't played

1583
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:40,199
enough just, yet but if he's still eligible next Time

1584
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,479
i'm Watching Trey, murphy and the efficiency isn't always going

1585
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:47,000
to line up with. This you are watching just a

1586
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,520
visibly different. Player like the stuff he's able to do

1587
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:52,960
on the ball right, now the things he the reads

1588
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,560
he's been able to make as a, Passer AND i

1589
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,399
think that that leap is pretty, big even if the

1590
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,000
like the scoring leap, itself like just going above twenty

1591
01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:03,199
points per, Game but if you're gonna have someone who

1592
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:06,119
can be, like, oh that's our Third, like let's JUST

1593
01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:08,199
i might even be selling them. Short oh that's our

1594
01:14:08,239 --> 01:14:11,720
third ball handler, here our third best offensive. Player, uh

1595
01:14:12,039 --> 01:14:13,840
that's a huge freaking deal when you look at the

1596
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:16,079
stuff that he's able to do away from the, ball the,

1597
01:14:16,159 --> 01:14:18,760
gravity the level of difficulty that he can do on

1598
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,119
those three, pointers the fact that he's been able to

1599
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:25,000
make this when The pelicans are basically at one point

1600
01:14:25,079 --> 01:14:27,239
injuries made them dogshit and now they're trying to be

1601
01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:30,520
dog shit on. Purpose so, yeah The zion he's gotten.

1602
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,399
Better they're winning The zion. Minutes But Trey murphy is,

1603
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,600
like this could change the trajectory of The. Pelicans it

1604
01:14:37,319 --> 01:14:39,439
might even change who is the most important player in

1605
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,119
The pelicans. Building right, now the eventual answer might be

1606
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:44,359
this year's first round. Pick as of right, now you

1607
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:46,399
kind of need to default To Zion, williamson but it

1608
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,079
might just Be Trey. Murphy so that's WHY i have him,

1609
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:51,600
here because that's this was already a good, player he

1610
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,319
was valued as such in his, extension and he's now

1611
01:14:54,399 --> 01:14:58,199
made this jump where it's, okay this might be a fringe,

1612
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,600
star this could be like an all star time. Player

1613
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,079
so you Have kate and mobiley ahead of. HIM i

1614
01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:05,439
Have mobile second And kate, Third so it's like it's very.

1615
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,560
SIMILAR i went With. Kate is it's interesting that you

1616
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,520
Pick kay to win. IT i do feel like in that,

1617
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,760
Regard i'm assuming like the stuff he's doing on defense

1618
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:14,880
is driving a lot of.

1619
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 2: That it's it's some of. That it really, is LIKE

1620
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:23,000
i just, think like getting to CAUSE i maybe this

1621
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:25,720
is more personal opinion than like collective. OPINION i don't.

1622
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:27,560
KNOW i feel LIKE i was pretty in line with

1623
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:29,920
what most people thought about him prior to this, year

1624
01:15:30,359 --> 01:15:32,720
which is that LIKE i don't even know if he's

1625
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,960
actually LIKE i don't know that he should be a number,

1626
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,319
One Like i'm Not i'm not convinced of that coming

1627
01:15:38,359 --> 01:15:42,439
into this, year like some actually like things are there

1628
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:44,680
are still room for him to, Improve like he needs

1629
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:46,399
to be a better finisher at the, rim like he

1630
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:48,880
needs the just there's like little things that can still tick.

1631
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,640
Up but like he had all that plus defensive, questions

1632
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,640
plus like when's the shot gonna? Fall like plus is

1633
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:57,760
like how can you really run everything through? Him LIKE

1634
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,479
i didn't know? That and now it's like, yeah not only,

1635
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,640
that but like you put a decent defense around him

1636
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:04,439
and like a couple of shooters in it's like the

1637
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,199
pistons are again they could finish fourth like. That that's

1638
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:12,960
like that's so to distinguish it From Mobili and maybe

1639
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:16,760
that's not fair Because mobile's not asked to do What cad,

1640
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,840
Is BUT i don't think there's a realistic scenario where like,

1641
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:24,520
Offensively so to answer your, question the defense helps a,

1642
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,920
little but it really is just kde like removing DOUBTS

1643
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,039
i had about like is he is he the? Guy

1644
01:16:31,279 --> 01:16:33,880
like is he someone that can be the central offensive

1645
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,520
figure on a very good? Team and that's like that's

1646
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:38,760
kind of you, know that's not final boss, level like

1647
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:40,720
can you win a title as that guy is? Final

1648
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,359
but it's like that's a big step in that progression to,

1649
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:46,640
me and and SO i not so much the, DEFENSE

1650
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,239
i guess to answer the, QUESTION i, MEAN.

1651
01:16:49,119 --> 01:16:51,239
Speaker 1: I think the defense has been like a huge part

1652
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:53,119
of it for. Me AND i think you could look

1653
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:55,680
like the counting if you went by the counting stats

1654
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,039
like that would favor your, pick like to like just

1655
01:16:58,079 --> 01:17:00,920
having the mobile Versus kid just to WHERE i. THINK

1656
01:17:01,119 --> 01:17:02,960
i GUESS i was higher ON cade to me than

1657
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,279
consensus coming into the so that could be doing. It

1658
01:17:06,279 --> 01:17:08,319
you Have Christian brown who is also him And Ti

1659
01:17:08,399 --> 01:17:10,760
jerome are on MY i don't know. Much Warren powell

1660
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:12,560
would have maybe won this for, me but he's no

1661
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:17,560
longer eligible for the, award so Uh. Brown what's interesting

1662
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,239
is he's playing so much better Without Nikole jochic on

1663
01:17:20,279 --> 01:17:23,600
the floor this. YEAR i still feel there's been, improvement

1664
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,640
BUT i just still feel Like i'm watching too much

1665
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:27,680
of the same player a lot of the, time even

1666
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,880
when he's been saddled with a little bit more ball. Handling,

1667
01:17:30,119 --> 01:17:32,800
yeah Maybe i'm just not need to come. Around LIKE i,

1668
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,159
said he's listed at like along With Ti jerome is

1669
01:17:35,199 --> 01:17:37,279
like it's probably my top five or six for.

1670
01:17:37,279 --> 01:17:39,239
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah this is this is like a lot of.

1671
01:17:39,279 --> 01:17:41,560
OTHERS i, MEAN i HAD i had thought About daniels.

1672
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:45,000
HERE i thought about Ty jerome pretty hard. HERE i

1673
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:45,600
don't know.

1674
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,560
Speaker 1: If either Way daniels is interesting, too because So Ti

1675
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:50,680
jerome has shown things just because we didn't see any

1676
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,199
Of Tie. Jerome, DANIELS i feel like has done basically

1677
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:58,520
everything that he did just in extended playing. Time and

1678
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:00,920
that's what, like it's how do you? Wait just an

1679
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,239
increase in opportunity with improvement to where rather than a

1680
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:05,880
functional expansion of his skill.

1681
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,600
Speaker 2: Sets, yeah that's probably THE i, mean, really that's the

1682
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:12,000
argument Against. BROWN i, think LIKE i for the, RECORD

1683
01:18:12,039 --> 01:18:14,479
i really didn't think That Hard murphy is SOMEONE i

1684
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:16,399
THINK i forget. WHY i must have just looked at

1685
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:18,319
the games and DECIDED i don't need to consider him

1686
01:18:18,319 --> 01:18:20,960
because he would be in the mix With cunningham And

1687
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:24,960
mobiley for me after those, Guys, YEAH i went With

1688
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,279
brown just like he doubled his scoring, Average like he

1689
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,760
just is more efficient on higher. Volume he's like his

1690
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,279
two point shooting his. Skyrocketed he made less than half

1691
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:36,680
his twos last. Year he's at like sixty three percent

1692
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,359
this year on twos AND i think like you. Could

1693
01:18:40,399 --> 01:18:41,960
it would have been easier for me to brush that

1694
01:18:42,039 --> 01:18:45,199
off if the like how good is he with and

1695
01:18:45,279 --> 01:18:47,640
Without jokic had been like this dramatic. Thing it's, like,

1696
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,760
Well yokic is just hand feeding him. Layups, Basically it's, like,

1697
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,079
yeah he, is but he's also like pretty good Without,

1698
01:18:53,159 --> 01:18:56,800
jokic so that that counts as something to. Me, again

1699
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,520
THOUGH i wouldn't if you had a strong argument for

1700
01:19:00,279 --> 01:19:04,359
Like Daniel's Jerome Franz, wagner if we could consider him

1701
01:19:04,399 --> 01:19:07,239
like something like, THAT i. WOULD i would probably listen pretty.

1702
01:19:07,239 --> 01:19:10,560
Speaker 1: HARD i will SAY i was if you need do

1703
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,479
you need me to make a strong case again For Julian.

1704
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,920
Champenney the shooting has fallen, off which is kind of

1705
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,199
what like That maybe IT'S i, guess BUT i could

1706
01:19:17,199 --> 01:19:19,399
still make The Julian champenny case LIKE i did last.

1707
01:19:19,399 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 2: TIME i know it would come from the, heart and

1708
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:21,640
that's the important.

1709
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,319
Speaker 1: Thing this one's. Mine Six man of The. Year this

1710
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,600
WAS i Thought Peyton pritchard was going to run away with.

1711
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,359
This for, ME i Have DeAndre hunter at, One Malik

1712
01:19:29,399 --> 01:19:32,359
beasley at. Two he has started fourteen games this, year

1713
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:35,319
so still. Eligible and Then. Peyton pritchard is still three for,

1714
01:19:35,399 --> 01:19:39,119
Me Like, DEANGE i think what's doing a lot of

1715
01:19:39,359 --> 01:19:41,760
heavy lifting For DeAndre hunting is not just that he's

1716
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:44,079
done it now for two, teams but like he's had

1717
01:19:44,119 --> 01:19:46,159
to scale his role to a different team and he's

1718
01:19:46,199 --> 01:19:49,199
become mega important and mid season he goes to The

1719
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:52,319
calves and they're just slaughtering people when he's playing at

1720
01:19:52,319 --> 01:19:55,359
the four next To. Mobley SO i appreciate what he's

1721
01:19:55,359 --> 01:19:58,560
done as a. Score as a, Defender Malik beasley's been

1722
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,399
a breath of fresh air For detroit's, offense and this

1723
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:02,960
is another. Year by the, WAY i don't think the

1724
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,720
results are always, good but he's in a like he's

1725
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:08,720
on a defense now that like The bucks had noise

1726
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:12,039
there last, year his role was. Outsized now you've kind

1727
01:20:12,039 --> 01:20:13,880
of put him in a more role that he would

1728
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,960
be suited. For but the, effort the engagement from him

1729
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,960
these past two seasons on, DEFENSE i wanted to shout

1730
01:20:20,039 --> 01:20:22,960
him out. For and Then pritchard's case is Just pritcher's,

1731
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:25,439
Case like he's not shooting ninety percent from three like he,

1732
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:27,079
was you, know for the first half of the, year

1733
01:20:27,079 --> 01:20:27,960
but he's still killing.

1734
01:20:28,039 --> 01:20:31,399
Speaker 2: It, yeah just forty two percent on ten attempts per thirty.

1735
01:20:31,399 --> 01:20:33,520
Six like he that's, all that's.

1736
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 1: All.

1737
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah pritchard for me was just it wasn't easy BECAUSE

1738
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:41,560
i do think Like, Hunter hunter has just been in

1739
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,800
two different spots like, indispensable like highly valuable at a

1740
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:47,720
sup at a highly valuable, position AND i would THINK

1741
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,439
i would, say if if part of your six man

1742
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:56,439
calculus is could, slash should this guy close? Games Then

1743
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:59,760
hunter probably is the pick because Like pritchard's just not you,

1744
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:03,119
know on most, nights gonna be someone that closes For. Boston,

1745
01:21:03,159 --> 01:21:04,640
now if you were on a team not as good As,

1746
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,279
boston would that be different? Probably But hunters on The,

1747
01:21:08,319 --> 01:21:12,399
calves and The calves are better than The celtics this,

1748
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:15,960
season so you know that's another point In hunter's. Favor

1749
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:19,199
pretcher just feels like the quintessential six man to me,

1750
01:21:19,279 --> 01:21:22,560
though who just comes in ups the, tempo fires, threes

1751
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:26,159
like disrupts. Defensively it's just kind of like the scrappiness

1752
01:21:26,319 --> 01:21:28,479
aspect of a six man THAT i, enjoy like the tempo.

1753
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:29,800
Changer do you know.

1754
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: What was tough when we picked him because WE i

1755
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:33,720
think this is the third consecutive time you've had, him

1756
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:36,319
so you've been. Consistent WHAT i struggled with the first

1757
01:21:36,319 --> 01:21:39,399
two times IS i always want to value the bench

1758
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:42,720
player THAT i think could be a closing lineup staple.

1759
01:21:43,039 --> 01:21:44,560
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah That's, hunter.

1760
01:21:45,039 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: Right and it's like It's beasley fits That bill. More

1761
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:50,520
but that's not necessarily in the spirit of the award

1762
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:54,000
because a sixth man if in, THEORY i know this

1763
01:21:54,039 --> 01:21:56,600
isn't how it works necessarily in TODAY'S, nba but, like

1764
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,880
your starting lineup is supposed to be your best lineup

1765
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,000
and that's what you almost ride her die. With we

1766
01:22:01,079 --> 01:22:03,479
know things about matchups or how people like to make

1767
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,520
it easier to, stagger so but, LIKE i still that's

1768
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,039
still in the back of my mind where it's like

1769
01:22:08,079 --> 01:22:09,680
that was kind of one of the strongest case For

1770
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:11,840
Manual quickly during his mixt, Days, like, yeah he's coming

1771
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:13,000
off the, bench but look at what he does when

1772
01:22:13,039 --> 01:22:15,199
he fills in as a starter or as a closing unit.

1773
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:15,840
Member that's.

1774
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,039
Speaker 2: Right, yeah oh, MAN i remember that that DISCUSSION i

1775
01:22:19,079 --> 01:22:22,520
have read. Third it's just like he's another guy that's

1776
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:26,319
like he just probably is one of their five best

1777
01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:30,279
players and he should start and close sometimes and again

1778
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,399
you're going to cite The Julius. Randall they're undefeated in

1779
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:34,520
for the last five.

1780
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: Years to be, fair, though if you had your, druthers

1781
01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:39,000
Nos reed wouldn't even be eligible for this.

1782
01:22:39,079 --> 01:22:44,079
Speaker 2: Award that's. True, yeah let's see what. Else, Yeah, BEASLEY

1783
01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:45,840
i have no problem With. Beasley i'm trying to think

1784
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:47,399
of anybody ELSE i would have thrown in.

1785
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:50,359
Speaker 1: There he's dropped down a little, bit but like as

1786
01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:53,600
an honorable, MENTION i still think UH, A Niki Alexander

1787
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,760
walker for sure would deserve an honorable mention.

1788
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,319
Speaker 2: THERE i, mean Even Ty. Jerome we've talked plenty about,

1789
01:22:59,359 --> 01:23:01,159
him but he's been phenomenal off the.

1790
01:23:01,159 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 1: Bench Kros vert, Too let's just keep Naming calves someone

1791
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:07,800
from The.

1792
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 2: Grizzlies like four guys off of The grizzlies bench would be.

1793
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:16,720
GOOD i think maybe like If houston had who to

1794
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:18,000
be On, houston if The.

1795
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 1: Thompson was in my top three Last, yeah it's just.

1796
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 2: They just have had injuries to where enough guys have

1797
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,119
become and Like easton just hasn't played, enough but he

1798
01:23:26,239 --> 01:23:27,720
would have been someone interesting to think.

1799
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:32,359
Speaker 1: About we're probably forgetting someone major. Here i'm, sure BUT

1800
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:35,319
i will, say AND i actually think that he should

1801
01:23:35,319 --> 01:23:37,840
probably be, starting but Like deuce McBride with someone just

1802
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:39,720
another name THAT i at least looked, at but that's

1803
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:44,039
not really a. Surprise take us, through, please Coach coach

1804
01:23:44,079 --> 01:23:44,159
of the.

1805
01:23:44,239 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 2: Year you AND i both Have Kenny atkinson at, one

1806
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,039
and then we have in your CASE. Jb bickerstaff, two

1807
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:54,680
who is Not Chauncey. Billups just in case anyone's confused

1808
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:58,560
by about who coaches The, Pistons Mark dagnall. THREE i

1809
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,760
Just Flippedagnalon. BICKERSTAFF i Have atkinson, One dagnall, Two vickerstaff

1810
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:06,800
three could have. Gone so let's start at the, top,

1811
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:12,159
like did you entertain any SERIOUS i, mean we've thought about,

1812
01:24:12,159 --> 01:24:14,239
this but like it Was atkinson pretty comfortably.

1813
01:24:14,319 --> 01:24:17,039
Speaker 1: Right so the argument, is if you don't want to

1814
01:24:17,039 --> 01:24:19,039
just focus on looking at how many games they're about to.

1815
01:24:19,079 --> 01:24:21,720
Win is that IF i went into it this time,

1816
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:24,840
saying what would my case Against atkins? Be ATKINSON b

1817
01:24:25,039 --> 01:24:27,119
AND i think that you could argue The Detroit pistons

1818
01:24:27,119 --> 01:24:31,159
contending for fourth in The east is more surprising than

1819
01:24:31,199 --> 01:24:33,680
The cavs contending for first based off the talent. There

1820
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:37,760
but when you watch them on, offense they are a different.

1821
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,359
Team like he's figured out ways to Unlock Evan. Mobley

1822
01:24:40,359 --> 01:24:43,119
the staggering, patterns the lineup patterns have just been. Better

1823
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:46,000
the way that they can use A Max, druce the

1824
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:48,880
way that they've Used Ty. JEROME i just think that

1825
01:24:49,159 --> 01:24:51,680
he has had even if you don't think he's necessarily

1826
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:53,640
responsible for what they've been able to do with some

1827
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,840
of their best defensive. Lineups even The Donovan mitchell toggling

1828
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:00,600
between two, existences it feels like The kavs off is.

1829
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:05,000
Different there's there's more variability there in a good. Way

1830
01:25:05,279 --> 01:25:08,119
there's principles that you didn't necessarily see them maintain UNDER.

1831
01:25:08,199 --> 01:25:11,000
Jb bickerstaff the entire time he was, there except when

1832
01:25:11,039 --> 01:25:13,680
they were he, honest Jab bickerscheft did his best offensive

1833
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:15,439
work In, CLEVELAND i will maintain when they were at

1834
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:18,479
their most. Injured so to take it's almost kind of

1835
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,840
the same thing with most improved. Player to take a

1836
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:23,760
team that was already excellent and then just make them a,

1837
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:25,840
Juggernaut like that, matters.

1838
01:25:26,079 --> 01:25:29,399
Speaker 2: RIGHT i think the related piece of that, argument because

1839
01:25:29,399 --> 01:25:32,000
that is the sort of the crux of my, thinking is, that, like,

1840
01:25:33,119 --> 01:25:36,159
well if you're arguing For bickerstaff Over, Atkinson you'd, say

1841
01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:38,600
look at the talent on This cavs, roster like how

1842
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:41,119
hard is the? Job? Really like they were gonna win

1843
01:25:41,159 --> 01:25:44,640
fifty something games with like you, know like a notepad

1844
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:47,079
in the head coach's, Chair like so would they just

1845
01:25:47,079 --> 01:25:49,319
would have figured it. Out but at some, POINT i

1846
01:25:49,319 --> 01:25:55,199
do think you deserve credit, for like, one deploying that

1847
01:25:55,239 --> 01:25:58,319
talent in the best, way because it's like it's that's

1848
01:25:58,399 --> 01:26:00,840
like the final step in like going from good to,

1849
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:03,279
great and The cavs are just historically like a great

1850
01:26:03,359 --> 01:26:06,039
regular season team so. Far the other THING i, think,

1851
01:26:06,039 --> 01:26:08,119
too is at some point you also need to be

1852
01:26:08,199 --> 01:26:12,720
credited for like Ty jerome is a thing, Now DeAndre

1853
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:17,039
hunter changed team's midstream still, Awesome like, yeo, okay maybe

1854
01:26:17,079 --> 01:26:20,920
that's Just jerome And. Hunter, Okay Well mobley has played very,

1855
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,600
Differently like maybe that's Just. Mobley but you keep going

1856
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:25,560
down the. List enough of the with enough of those

1857
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:26,119
bullet points.

1858
01:26:26,199 --> 01:26:27,560
Speaker 1: Hurt when he was, There.

1859
01:26:27,319 --> 01:26:30,119
Speaker 2: Marris leburt was as good as he's ever. Played, Okay

1860
01:26:30,119 --> 01:26:33,640
well he just made. Threes, Okay well let's. Continue Like Darius,

1861
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:37,319
garland he's back looks. Comfortable whatever strife there was between

1862
01:26:37,359 --> 01:26:39,159
him And Donovan mitchell and the rest of the team.

1863
01:26:39,319 --> 01:26:42,880
Squashed Jared allen never an issue from last. Year remember

1864
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:45,840
like this team was was we had them blown up

1865
01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:48,840
like at the end of last, season right. Right you

1866
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,600
go down enough bullet points that you could credit to someone,

1867
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:53,600
else and, eventually when there are enough of, them you

1868
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,520
have to just, Acknowledge LIKE i think the guy pushing

1869
01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:59,039
the buttons is pretty good at this like, that AND

1870
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:01,920
i think that's maybe just the Roundabout. Atkins in CASE

1871
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:03,119
i would MAKE i.

1872
01:27:03,079 --> 01:27:05,880
Speaker 1: Would, Say Jamie, bickerstaff if you put him, ONE i

1873
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:07,760
won't fight against. YOU i think it has to be

1874
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:10,560
built around The Detroit pistons have no business being a

1875
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:13,439
top ten defensive team with their personnel that's like his strongest.

1876
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:15,359
Kid like the stuff he is doing is. GREAT a

1877
01:27:15,399 --> 01:27:17,760
lot of THAT i feel like is they, understood, like, oh,

1878
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:20,800
shooting look at what this can. Do but like the

1879
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,239
improvement That jalen durn has made kind of over the

1880
01:27:23,319 --> 01:27:27,000
past month or, so and the way That Kay cunningham

1881
01:27:27,079 --> 01:27:30,520
himself is. DEFENDED i Mentioned Elie beasley before, so and

1882
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:33,560
but the other thing that he's, doing Which atkinson hasn't

1883
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:37,640
really had to. Do he's juggling development Like Ron holland

1884
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:39,880
is still getting reps on a team that is, Good

1885
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:43,279
and Like jalen durn how many teams if they were

1886
01:27:43,319 --> 01:27:45,560
as good as The pistons are or were like a

1887
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,319
month or two ago When Jalen durtan maybe wasn't at his,

1888
01:27:48,399 --> 01:27:50,760
best might have gone away from. That so like kind

1889
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,479
of figuring it, out while also like not it's not

1890
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,079
like they did anything with, him and they Insert Dennis

1891
01:27:56,079 --> 01:27:58,159
shruder midstream the way he was using j And Ivy

1892
01:27:58,359 --> 01:28:01,439
woor he was. Injured like So Jamie bickerstaff has LIKE

1893
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:02,560
i don't even know IF i had him in my

1894
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,720
top three last, time but he. HAS i actually think

1895
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,640
he has a really strong case for number.

1896
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:10,720
Speaker 2: ONE i think so, Too and you could the simplest

1897
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:13,199
version is, like what do they win fourteen games last?

1898
01:28:13,279 --> 01:28:16,840
Year the roster's not that, Different like it really is.

1899
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:18,920
NOT i mean a couple of key, guys but like

1900
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,119
they're gonna win thirty more than, That like no. PROBLEM

1901
01:28:22,399 --> 01:28:25,319
i JUST i that's the leap is pretty. Substantial and,

1902
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,920
honestly if you wanted to track From, BICKERSTAFF i. DON'T

1903
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,279
i think he could AND i could easily win. This

1904
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,880
you would point to like this team was like grossly

1905
01:28:36,399 --> 01:28:40,000
like mismanaged and poorly coached last, year so they actually

1906
01:28:40,039 --> 01:28:43,680
weren't that. Bad they probably should have won thirty games or.

1907
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:47,000
Something but like that would just be your if you

1908
01:28:47,039 --> 01:28:49,199
really don't Want bickerstaff to, win that's the argument you.

1909
01:28:49,239 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 1: Make i'm not making that. ARGUMENT i. Did we both

1910
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:53,680
Have dagnall in the top. THREE i just think he's

1911
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:56,319
an excellent. Coach the thunder of dealt with. Injuries he

1912
01:28:56,319 --> 01:28:58,760
throws out creative. Lineups people made fun of him for

1913
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:00,760
the perma sub thing With Dylan, jones but like the

1914
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:04,920
like constantly thinking and gaming the system that. WAY i

1915
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:06,960
also think that he has been like he's pulled some

1916
01:29:07,079 --> 01:29:09,359
night like Even alex cruzom is his. Time the fact

1917
01:29:09,399 --> 01:29:11,760
that he was working in Aj mitchell at the beginning

1918
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,880
of the year BEFORE Aj mitchell got. Injured the coach

1919
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:18,199
there's always like you could make a case for a

1920
01:29:18,239 --> 01:29:21,600
ton of coaches in almost any given. YEAR i struggled

1921
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,199
WITH Jj. REDDICK i have him listed in my honorable

1922
01:29:24,199 --> 01:29:28,079
mentions BECAUSE i like The. LAKERS i don't want to

1923
01:29:28,079 --> 01:29:30,560
SAY i don't believe in. Them but it's just like

1924
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:33,800
they dealt with some injuries and the defense was, okay

1925
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:36,680
it never. Plummeted now they're getting like some better defensive

1926
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:39,520
talent out while also Exchanging Max christy And Anthony, davis

1927
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:42,000
and the defense gets. Better, grant they are second in

1928
01:29:42,039 --> 01:29:45,039
point slot per possession against top ten. TEAMS i watched,

1929
01:29:45,039 --> 01:29:47,279
them and at this Point i'm still concerned about the

1930
01:29:47,279 --> 01:29:49,960
big meta, rotation AND i think that their model was,

1931
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,840
like there's no way this holds up against like good

1932
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,239
teams in the, playoffs, right but as like just circle,

1933
01:29:54,279 --> 01:29:57,239
back this is what it is against top ten. Offenses

1934
01:29:57,279 --> 01:29:58,920
and you could say so and so miss games like all,

1935
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,079
right The lakers didn't have J, vanderbilt who's still just

1936
01:30:01,159 --> 01:30:04,319
all over the place, DEFENSIVELY i did not have The

1937
01:30:04,399 --> 01:30:09,640
lakers in contention for number two in The Western, conference

1938
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:13,479
and so he like maybe because the thunder are they're historically,

1939
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,039
good but we probably could have forecasted. That like that

1940
01:30:16,239 --> 01:30:18,720
is his case Over Mark. Dagnall for, me, YES.

1941
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:23,560
Speaker 2: I would add to like degree of difficulty, matters and

1942
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:26,960
like think of just the scrutiny is one like the

1943
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:30,159
size of the, market the expectations Coaching lebron is just

1944
01:30:30,279 --> 01:30:32,880
NOT i, mean in many ways it's, easy but in

1945
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:35,720
many ways it's also. Hard and that's before considering like

1946
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:37,640
the browny side of, It like just think of the

1947
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:41,439
other stuff that he's had to navigate this like seismic

1948
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,840
mid season trade that really does fundamentally change like not

1949
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,319
just how you, play but like the literal hierarchy of

1950
01:30:47,359 --> 01:30:50,239
your team and organization when you Bring luca, In, like

1951
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,520
there's been a lot of stuff to deal with that

1952
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,319
has very little to do with. Basketball and then like

1953
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:58,720
and so he's navigated that incredibly well the basketball side of,

1954
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,399
It Like i'm never gonna get over for all the

1955
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:04,479
clips of how they Guarded jokic in ways that like

1956
01:31:05,039 --> 01:31:08,359
nobody's really done. Before like it's like clever doubles off the,

1957
01:31:08,399 --> 01:31:11,000
ball like not like forcing him to catch it far

1958
01:31:11,039 --> 01:31:13,159
away from the, basket like doing all the stuff you should,

1959
01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:15,319
do but just like more LIKE i don't, know there's

1960
01:31:15,359 --> 01:31:18,479
no blueprint for Stopping, jokic but The lakers like kind

1961
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:19,840
of put something out there THAT i think a lot

1962
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:23,039
of teams are gonna emulate come playoff. Time so just like,

1963
01:31:23,119 --> 01:31:27,600
TACTICALLY i think he's pretty clearly like very very like high.

1964
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:30,159
End so, YEAH I i it was hard to leave him.

1965
01:31:30,199 --> 01:31:32,600
Off maybe he deserves to be on. It maybe The

1966
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:35,960
lakers will continue to like With lebron out you, know

1967
01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:38,800
they've had some struggles, now but like maybe they'll close

1968
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:40,680
on a like on a big run and we'll just

1969
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,000
have to ultimately put him in the top.

1970
01:31:43,039 --> 01:31:45,079
Speaker 1: Three, UH i wanted to. QUIT i meant. TO i

1971
01:31:45,119 --> 01:31:46,680
have this in my notes for it was An atkinson

1972
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:49,520
And bickerstaff. Note The calves are first in point score

1973
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:52,399
per possession out of timeouts and The pistons are. Third

1974
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,760
like that's, like that's another feather IN. Jb bickerstaff. Cap

1975
01:31:56,199 --> 01:31:59,439
uh the any other coaches that you, THOUGHT i have

1976
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,239
one THAT i just we Had Taylor jenkins on this

1977
01:32:02,279 --> 01:32:04,239
list for a. While The grizzlies have been kind of

1978
01:32:04,399 --> 01:32:07,000
like all over the place. LATELY i don't think this

1979
01:32:07,199 --> 01:32:10,119
was the. Plan Like Jordi fernandez deserves a shit ton

1980
01:32:10,119 --> 01:32:12,880
of credit for what's going on In brooklyn because even

1981
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:16,199
they've given him less, talent and they did so earlier

1982
01:32:16,239 --> 01:32:18,680
than some other teams would, have and he has just

1983
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:23,119
outperformed at every. Turn like the offense was gangbusters to

1984
01:32:23,119 --> 01:32:24,880
start the year in the half court running Through Dennis.

1985
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,000
Shooter you get rid Of Dennis, shooter you get rid

1986
01:32:27,039 --> 01:32:29,239
Of Ben. Simmons eventually he's dorn If Finny smith's eventually. Leaves,

1987
01:32:29,279 --> 01:32:31,520
okay you're not good on offense. Anymore this team's gonna

1988
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:35,680
fight its ass off defensively every single. NIGHT i, again

1989
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:37,239
they're not good, enough AND i don't know that he

1990
01:32:37,279 --> 01:32:39,239
could Be coach of The, year but The nets are

1991
01:32:39,319 --> 01:32:42,920
actively trying to feel the team that won't be, competitive

1992
01:32:43,279 --> 01:32:46,760
and he has consistently just defied that at every single.

1993
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:47,439
TURN i.

1994
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:50,640
Speaker 2: AGREE i think my thought WHENEVER i Watch brooklyn is,

1995
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:53,479
like why is this team so hard to play? Against

1996
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:57,720
like they just have no business being used said, Competitive

1997
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:00,399
like they should be easy to play, Against like they

1998
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:03,319
have all these shortcomings in the playmaking. Department they're usually

1999
01:33:03,359 --> 01:33:06,479
small and or unskilled up, front like these wings and

2000
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:08,560
guards are just like outside Of Cam, johnson it's, like

2001
01:33:09,279 --> 01:33:12,840
who is this person that's playing thirty minutes? Tonight and

2002
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:16,000
it's they have no business being difficult to play and

2003
01:33:16,039 --> 01:33:18,359
they seem to always be hard to play, against at

2004
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:20,520
least you, know for three quarters or, Whatever like they

2005
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:25,439
they never you, know they're kind of weirdly. Relentless it's

2006
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:27,319
just you have to credit that to the, coach because,

2007
01:33:27,359 --> 01:33:30,119
like how easy would it be for, this like almost

2008
01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:33,239
everyone on this team to be like why why are?

2009
01:33:33,239 --> 01:33:34,000
We why are we?

2010
01:33:34,079 --> 01:33:34,399
Speaker 1: Trying?

2011
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:35,640
Speaker 2: So, yeah credit to him for.

2012
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:38,279
Speaker 1: That anybody like deep, CUTS i still Think Tyron los

2013
01:33:38,319 --> 01:33:40,800
a good. Coach Joe mizuola feels a little underappreciated it

2014
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:42,079
at this, alone.

2015
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:43,960
Speaker 2: Like it just the usual. SUSPECTS i don't know what

2016
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:47,239
you do with Kerr, uh probably don't put him on

2017
01:33:47,239 --> 01:33:50,960
the short. List But Eric spolt Pretending Eric bolstro is

2018
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,279
not a great, coach like all the shit that In

2019
01:33:53,319 --> 01:33:54,319
miami to do.

2020
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:58,239
Speaker 1: A lot of complaints among like heat media and analyst

2021
01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:01,399
podcasters that he just doesn't adjust. Enough AND i guess

2022
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:05,079
Maybe i'm Too Eric spoelstra. Pilled but what do you

2023
01:34:05,079 --> 01:34:06,920
want him to, like who do you want him to adjust?

2024
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:12,159
Speaker 2: With Exact, yeah tell me the the lineup switch that's

2025
01:34:12,199 --> 01:34:13,800
going to solve the issues there.

2026
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,279
Speaker 1: NOW i wish For rockets offense was a little bit more,

2027
01:34:16,279 --> 01:34:19,000
inventive but like Imy, udoka like putting together this defense

2028
01:34:19,039 --> 01:34:21,600
with your base rim protector or back line guy and

2029
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:24,600
Opera shangun is just like he's not the. Word i'm

2030
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:26,600
not saying that he sucks, defensively but figuring out the

2031
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:28,359
right way to use him like that matters a great.

2032
01:34:28,359 --> 01:34:30,960
Deal AND i Think Jamal mosley is someone that we've

2033
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:34,960
talked about in past editions where it's still credit for

2034
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,479
the defense and just like how hard they, play but

2035
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:42,159
it's like the offense is the emphasis ON i mean

2036
01:34:42,199 --> 01:34:44,880
the lack of emphasis on shooting threes and playing, Fast

2037
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,479
like there's some offensive stuff that's like this feels like

2038
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:50,880
a systemic choice and that's got to go to, him

2039
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:53,279
and that's not. GREAT i also Have Rick carlile on

2040
01:34:53,319 --> 01:34:55,479
my long, list BUT i sometimes think that because when

2041
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:57,680
you Read Kaitlin cooper and she's pointing out like all

2042
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,000
these things that it makes me higher On rick CARL

2043
01:35:00,039 --> 01:35:01,800
i was, Like, wow he's trying a bunch of different.

2044
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 2: Shit, NO i think he belongs with like The kerr

2045
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,319
And malones And, Spoulsters like he's he's a really GOOD nba,

2046
01:35:08,359 --> 01:35:10,760
coach just that you, know this ain't the year for.

2047
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,319
Speaker 1: Him we do not Do Clutch player of The year

2048
01:35:13,399 --> 01:35:15,359
until the end of the, season so we end with

2049
01:35:16,159 --> 01:35:19,800
everyone's favorite. Award Grant executive of the. Year you want

2050
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:20,359
to take us through.

2051
01:35:20,359 --> 01:35:22,840
Speaker 2: It, Yeah Sam presty, one WE'VE i don't know if

2052
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,399
we've had him. First he's been in the running all.

2053
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:27,560
Speaker 1: Year it's just it was we both had him first

2054
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:28,479
last time at the.

2055
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 2: Middle, okay so THE i, think, YEAH i Guess mitchell

2056
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:34,359
probably would have been hurt at that. Point but like

2057
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:38,319
The mitchell pick insane h The caruso, trade great, trade

2058
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:41,800
the machinations to be able to bring On hartenstein awesome like.

2059
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:43,640
Speaker 1: That he works For wiggans And. JOE i mean The

2060
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:45,399
wiggans deal especially looks like highway.

2061
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:49,159
Speaker 2: Robbery they just he doesn't miss, basically like other Than

2062
01:35:49,199 --> 01:35:51,560
Gordon hayward and that's not this. Year so so no

2063
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:53,520
misses this. Year uh number.

2064
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:56,119
Speaker 1: Ten we Were we didn't point this out when we

2065
01:35:56,119 --> 01:35:58,840
were regating the trade. Deadline even That Gordon hayward trade

2066
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:00,640
served the purpose of setting them up to have the

2067
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:02,560
cap space to go Get i'd say hard that's.

2068
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:07,199
Speaker 2: True, Yeah Rob plink is at two for both of.

2069
01:36:07,279 --> 01:36:09,239
Us that feels like a surprise.

2070
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:11,159
Speaker 1: Because he kept a. Secret that's pretty much.

2071
01:36:11,199 --> 01:36:15,279
Speaker 2: What because he someone came to him and he said,

2072
01:36:15,319 --> 01:36:20,000
okay he, said, OKAY i just don't what to do with,

2073
01:36:20,079 --> 01:36:21,800
Him like how he got the?

2074
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:27,199
Speaker 1: Guy DID Jj reddick? Higher? Sure, yeah, okay BUT i don't.

2075
01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:29,119
KNOW i don't beyond, that it's sort of just like

2076
01:36:29,159 --> 01:36:32,560
who is? Nothing they no changes they made personnel, wise

2077
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:34,840
aside From luca over the off. Season they didn't make

2078
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:38,319
a ton of changes to begin, with but to his.

2079
01:36:38,399 --> 01:36:42,640
Crew and also what did was he helped along by

2080
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:45,279
their doctors who. Failed the other.

2081
01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 2: THING i was, like is he here if The Mark

2082
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,479
williams trade goes, through because that's a bad trade that

2083
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:52,399
you shouldn't. Make, LIKE i don't, know he's just charmed,

2084
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:53,520
man he's Got he's got a.

2085
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 1: You could say Charmed and, like by the, WAY i

2086
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:59,359
Had Nico harrison third at the, head where do you

2087
01:36:59,399 --> 01:37:03,800
have him? Now Worth here's the. Thing he didn't even

2088
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,920
have to give up the second first round pick to Get,

2089
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,000
Luca and so it's, Okay Nico harrison And Patrick dumont

2090
01:37:10,039 --> 01:37:13,479
might be out of their fucking. Minds but he used

2091
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:15,960
that to his advantage and was, like, well we can't give.

2092
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,560
You i'm assuming they at least asked for, It like

2093
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:21,640
there had to be some level of negotiation. There so

2094
01:37:22,479 --> 01:37:24,880
you just have to and, look they didn't let it

2095
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:28,359
get out until like the fact That lebron And clutch

2096
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:33,319
And Anthony davis himself Also clutch seemed legitimately. Surprised you

2097
01:37:33,319 --> 01:37:36,720
can get into whether that's, right but, like that's like

2098
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:40,279
a and here's the other. Thing could you have been

2099
01:37:40,319 --> 01:37:43,039
compelled to go To lebron? First is? It like? It

2100
01:37:43,279 --> 01:37:45,640
it was such an easy decision for, Us but when

2101
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:49,039
you're dealing with those personal relationships and knowing that everyone

2102
01:37:49,079 --> 01:37:52,079
thinks That lebron is this SHADOW, gm this kind of

2103
01:37:52,119 --> 01:37:54,239
proves that he's. Not and it like to not inform

2104
01:37:54,319 --> 01:37:56,279
your best player and then to it kind of tells

2105
01:37:56,359 --> 01:37:58,600
your best. Player lebron shouldn't have a problem with this

2106
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:01,680
BECAUSE i think this improves his chances as he enters his.

2107
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:04,640
Twilight but, like he didn't Consult. Lebron, yes it was

2108
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:07,359
an easy, move but the dynamics don't always work that.

2109
01:38:07,399 --> 01:38:10,159
Way So i'm just trying to he trained For luca

2110
01:38:10,199 --> 01:38:13,000
without without giving up the farm and telling. ANYONE i

2111
01:38:13,039 --> 01:38:15,520
find that to be the most sterical, thing that THE

2112
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,560
nba is such a gossip factory that it's this big

2113
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:22,239
deal that they asked The lakers to keep it. Quiet

2114
01:38:22,319 --> 01:38:24,159
And genie bust like and we, did.

2115
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 2: Can?

2116
01:38:27,039 --> 01:38:28,319
Speaker 1: YOU i don't.

2117
01:38:28,359 --> 01:38:30,399
Speaker 2: KNOW i THINK i would want the, audio but the

2118
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:32,640
transcript would be fine BECAUSE i think it was an

2119
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:35,840
in person conversation the. WAY i don't. Know maybe maybe

2120
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:40,479
it was a phone call Where luca's being offered And

2121
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:43,560
dallas asked for both of those first and press the

2122
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:47,079
and And polinka, goes, NOW i don't. THINK i don't

2123
01:38:47,119 --> 01:38:51,359
think we can do, that like the Gall to like to,

2124
01:38:51,359 --> 01:38:53,439
say like we're gonna need to take that pick off

2125
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:58,720
the table or no, dice like there must he either

2126
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:02,199
is like the greatest game ambler that's ever, lived or

2127
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,920
like SOMEHOW i just can, you LIKE i Can't that

2128
01:39:06,039 --> 01:39:09,279
conversation like will never make sense in my brain where

2129
01:39:09,279 --> 01:39:13,039
it's like they're negotiating and he Gets dallas to still

2130
01:39:13,079 --> 01:39:17,319
agree without that second first in the, past LIKE i

2131
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:19,920
just want to know what that conversation, Was like how

2132
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:21,279
did that possibly?

2133
01:39:21,319 --> 01:39:23,520
Speaker 1: Happen and if you wanted to leave him off this

2134
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:25,159
list because you think it was that mindless of a,

2135
01:39:25,159 --> 01:39:27,119
DECISION i guess it's, fine but you would have to

2136
01:39:27,159 --> 01:39:30,319
then believe or prove that he had nothing to do with,

2137
01:39:30,359 --> 01:39:32,760
it like they just came this was the, package and he, said.

2138
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:35,199
Speaker 2: Yes, right, yeah WHICH i, MEAN.

2139
01:39:35,079 --> 01:39:37,359
Speaker 1: I guess In maverick's, land we can't roll that. Out

2140
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:38,279
we cannot roll that.

2141
01:39:38,359 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 2: Out our third picks are. Different you could go this with,

2142
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:48,520
this this, choice or several. Others probably HERE i Have Mike,

2143
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:52,399
dunlevy who was, like and you have A Trajan langdon

2144
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:55,680
for The. PISTONS i, think LIKE i had Done levy

2145
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:58,159
high after the offseason and the twelve and three starts,

2146
01:39:58,159 --> 01:40:00,199
like look at all these guys he, signed what what?

2147
01:40:00,239 --> 01:40:03,840
Genius Kyle, Anderson Buddy healed and then like basically none

2148
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:07,920
of those guys matter anymore and or are. Gone and

2149
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:09,680
then he felt fell way off and now he's back

2150
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:11,800
because he made The Jimmy butler trade and the guy

2151
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:15,239
they drafted in the, Fifties Quenton, post is like actually an,

2152
01:40:15,239 --> 01:40:19,000
impactful like rotation. Player so it's been a it's been

2153
01:40:19,039 --> 01:40:20,920
a real roller coaster of a season for For Mike

2154
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:23,239
dunlevy And executive of The year is What i'm trying to.

2155
01:40:23,239 --> 01:40:25,600
Say what make the trades In langdon, case because it's pretty,

2156
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:26,760
Strong uh.

2157
01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah what DO i have to look at The, Pistons but,

2158
01:40:29,239 --> 01:40:31,880
look there were some quite. LIKE i still don't think

2159
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:34,279
they got good runway out of The Tim hardwa junior,

2160
01:40:34,279 --> 01:40:36,039
trade especially with in my notes by the, way it

2161
01:40:36,039 --> 01:40:37,800
says like the only THING i really didn't like is

2162
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:39,960
The Tim hardway junior trade because Now Quentin grimes as a,

2163
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:42,359
board we didn't mention him AN. Mp but even what

2164
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:44,079
dating back to what he was doing At, dallas he's

2165
01:40:44,079 --> 01:40:46,600
definitely on like the long list of those. Players Tim

2166
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:48,800
Harroway junior's worked out for. Them The Malik beasley signing

2167
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:51,199
has been great for. THEM i think that he got

2168
01:40:51,239 --> 01:40:54,119
creative in ways. TOO i don't know If Ron hollin's

2169
01:40:54,119 --> 01:40:55,520
gonna end up being the right. Pick he is one

2170
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,359
of THE i have the least like. That dude fucking plays,

2171
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:00,520
Hard YEAH i. HAVE i don't know Why i'm dropping

2172
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:03,920
so many f bombs in this, podcast But I'M i

2173
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:06,840
still don't necessarily understand what he's gonna, Be so that

2174
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:09,880
might be a pick worth. Relitigating but WHAT i really

2175
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:13,520
look at by the way people Panned Kate cunningham's not

2176
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:16,640
a no, Brainer max. Guy that's, like that's a stance

2177
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:18,960
he could have held Because Kate cunningham isn't his, dude

2178
01:41:19,159 --> 01:41:22,039
so like you deserve credit for, negotiating like Giving Kate

2179
01:41:22,039 --> 01:41:23,920
cunningham the, money and look at what he's. Done THE

2180
01:41:24,039 --> 01:41:26,880
jmi bickerstaff higher works. OUT i think he ended up

2181
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:29,279
like they got really creative this season on the trade

2182
01:41:29,279 --> 01:41:32,199
market Where Dennis shooter is still not the most efficient

2183
01:41:32,279 --> 01:41:34,560
version of himself In. DETROIT i went through this with

2184
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:37,000
more the other. Day they've found a way to Give

2185
01:41:37,079 --> 01:41:40,840
Kate cunningham more in game breaks on offense because Of Dennis.

2186
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:43,359
Shooter and now you, have in the wake Of jeknivey's,

2187
01:41:43,359 --> 01:41:45,680
injury someone who has helped you during those minutes When

2188
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:48,720
Kay cunningham is on the. Bench AND i still believe

2189
01:41:49,199 --> 01:41:52,000
that this will pan. Out i'm waiting this The Bobby clintman.

2190
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:53,680
ACQUISITION i.

2191
01:41:54,199 --> 01:41:59,479
Speaker 2: FAVORIT i think To langdon's, Credit like you might say, that,

2192
01:42:00,079 --> 01:42:04,319
well it's actually easier to come in and just look

2193
01:42:04,359 --> 01:42:07,119
at a situation where you made like none of the

2194
01:42:07,159 --> 01:42:09,520
decisions that produced the, roster like with fresh, eyes and

2195
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:11,720
it's much it's easy to evaluate who needs to, stay

2196
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:13,600
who needs to. GO i think actually his job is

2197
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:17,119
harder because like it's difficult to just resist the clean

2198
01:42:17,159 --> 01:42:19,479
house urge and be LIKE i just want my guys.

2199
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:22,479
HERE i got. No i'm just, gonna you, know whether

2200
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:24,560
It's kaide not getting The max or we're gonna Move

2201
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:26,840
ivy And durham and we're just Gonna we're, gonna LIKE

2202
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:28,840
i want to start over because this is my team.

2203
01:42:28,880 --> 01:42:31,159
Now and LIKE i think that's a hard impulse to.

2204
01:42:31,199 --> 01:42:33,199
Resist and you see a lot of executives come in

2205
01:42:33,199 --> 01:42:35,279
and like that's what happens and mistakes get. Made SO

2206
01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:38,399
i think the degree of difficulty actually is like fairly

2207
01:42:38,479 --> 01:42:40,520
high for, him even though it may not seem like,

2208
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:42,760
it just because like he could have just come in

2209
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:46,319
and like we're. Good this seems. Terrible it's been terrible

2210
01:42:46,359 --> 01:42:49,000
for twenty, Years like why are we keeping any of

2211
01:42:49,039 --> 01:42:50,760
the pieces? Around and he didn't do.

2212
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:52,760
Speaker 1: That and also there's the level of, okay like we

2213
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:56,680
thought That Tobias harris contract was just so, stupid and it's.

2214
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:58,560
Okay it was an, overpay Like Tobias harras has been

2215
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:01,439
really useful for, them and it was honestly so Many

2216
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:03,239
fontachio is the one that's been a, disappointment and we

2217
01:43:03,239 --> 01:43:05,680
thought that deal was spectacular in real, time.

2218
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:08,319
Speaker 2: One of these, Days fontechio is gonna. Pop we're gonna be.

2219
01:43:08,359 --> 01:43:11,359
Speaker 1: Right those are our. Awards let us know who you

2220
01:43:11,399 --> 01:43:15,079
would be picking in the comment section below with all your,

2221
01:43:15,119 --> 01:43:17,479
picks what's your, disagreements what you liked about? It compliments

2222
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:20,279
are always nice. Too with that out of the, way,

2223
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:29,800
though before we get out of, here please. Money it

2224
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:33,479
is back stat padding guess a player by popular. Demand

2225
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:35,920
at least everyone claims they want it, back which So

2226
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:39,560
i'm now putting the onus on our. Subscribers go join our.

2227
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:42,479
DISCORD i will create what are they called subservers or,

2228
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:46,399
whatever where you can submit into a form guess of

2229
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:48,560
players That grant will read to, me or there'll be

2230
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:51,159
a separate one THAT i can read To. Grant we

2231
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:53,159
will continue when we do these to, say, okay go

2232
01:43:53,199 --> 01:43:55,199
put them in, there But i'm not gonna tag and

2233
01:43:55,279 --> 01:43:56,840
ask for them like we used. To if you want

2234
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:59,560
guests a player, back give us guess the players And

2235
01:43:59,640 --> 01:44:02,000
mike each was kind enough to have a shit ton

2236
01:44:02,359 --> 01:44:05,439
of guessa players uh in the deck for. Us. Grant

2237
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:06,640
before we go into, this how are you?

2238
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:12,600
Speaker 2: FEELING i feel. Nervous out of. PRACTICE i feel like

2239
01:44:13,359 --> 01:44:17,640
there's a good chance that people could use. Players we've already,

2240
01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:20,319
done AND i won't remember it And i'll be, wrong

2241
01:44:20,399 --> 01:44:23,039
and that's just the shame of that will be difficult

2242
01:44:23,039 --> 01:44:26,399
to live. With how do you Feel it's been a long.

2243
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:28,560
Speaker 1: Time it's been we haven't done it at. ALL i think

2244
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:30,720
during this regular, season like ever since we did the

2245
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:32,399
off season Look aheads is when that we kind of

2246
01:44:32,439 --> 01:44:35,319
phased it. Out SO i was fine BECAUSE i was

2247
01:44:35,359 --> 01:44:37,640
putting you under the. SPOTLIGHT i didn't care like you

2248
01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:39,159
were the one under. Pressure but NOW i find out

2249
01:44:39,199 --> 01:44:40,840
that you have something for, Me so NOW i am

2250
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:42,239
a little. Bit NOW i am a little bit.

2251
01:44:42,319 --> 01:44:45,560
Speaker 2: Urker this is it's been A you're being surprised in

2252
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:47,479
addition to all the normal stress of guess a.

2253
01:44:47,479 --> 01:44:49,720
Speaker 1: Player all, right so let's. Alternate do you want to

2254
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:51,239
you wanna? Start i'll give you the clues.

2255
01:44:51,359 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 2: Here, okay give me the. Clues i'm ready.

2256
01:44:53,239 --> 01:44:57,239
Speaker 1: There there are there are seven clues. Here so let's

2257
01:44:57,239 --> 01:44:59,920
see how you. Do clue number. ONE i was draft

2258
01:45:00,079 --> 01:45:02,479
did by The warriors in twenty twenty.

2259
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:08,239
Speaker 2: Three, WELL i, mean SHOULDN'T i just get this or SHOULD?

2260
01:45:08,279 --> 01:45:11,079
I Now i'm already drawing a blank twenty twenty? Three,

2261
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:18,359
HMMM i forgot how much dead air this creates WHEN

2262
01:45:18,399 --> 01:45:19,680
i just sit here, thinking.

2263
01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:21,520
Speaker 1: WHICH i will not be cutting out because yeah, know

2264
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:23,640
like that has to be part of the guess of player,

2265
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:27,319
experiences us thinking our way silently through. It and if

2266
01:45:27,359 --> 01:45:29,399
you're watching on, YouTube you could look At grant like

2267
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:32,000
furrowing his brow and fiddling with his. Hat but if

2268
01:45:32,039 --> 01:45:34,760
you're an, Audio.

2269
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah Brandon pajemski two thousand and, THREE i think you

2270
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:39,199
said twenty.

2271
01:45:39,239 --> 01:45:42,279
Speaker 1: Three, no two thousand and, three which you care to guess?

2272
01:45:42,279 --> 01:45:44,640
Speaker 2: Again, No i'm gonna stick with. IT i think that's.

2273
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:47,439
Right was he born in two thousand and? Three probably

2274
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:52,840
not two thousand and Three warriors draft? PICK I i.

2275
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:54,399
CAN'T i can't remember off the top of my. Head

2276
01:45:54,399 --> 01:45:55,800
SO i will ask you for another.

2277
01:45:55,840 --> 01:46:01,600
Speaker 1: Clue, okay clue number. Two at the TIME i was,

2278
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:04,479
drafted many THOUGHT i could be a draft and stash.

2279
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:06,720
Player BUT i came state side right away on a

2280
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:08,079
Mediocre warriors.

2281
01:46:08,079 --> 01:46:16,960
Speaker 2: Squad, oh, okay came state, side Mediocre warriors, squad draft

2282
01:46:17,039 --> 01:46:21,640
and stash in two thousand and. Three, man this is

2283
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:24,600
this is way later than. That but is It Kuzmich

2284
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:29,279
it is Not Kuzmich, Okay, MAN i don't. Know what

2285
01:46:29,359 --> 01:46:32,279
year that guy was? Picked i'm gonna throw one more out. There,

2286
01:46:34,239 --> 01:46:37,800
oh what's his? Name Yerie welsh.

2287
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:40,239
Speaker 1: Is not him, Either, okay pull names out of your,

2288
01:46:40,239 --> 01:46:43,520
ass THOUGH i respect. It clue number. THREE i was

2289
01:46:43,560 --> 01:46:46,319
not a very efficient score as a, rookie only putting

2290
01:46:46,319 --> 01:46:49,359
down shots at a forty one percent. Clip so he.

2291
01:46:49,399 --> 01:46:52,159
Speaker 2: Played as a rookie in? Three, uh what's that? Guy

2292
01:46:52,359 --> 01:46:54,239
this is another too late. One what's his? Name Like

2293
01:46:54,319 --> 01:46:56,840
Yaza kevishis or something starts with A j.

2294
01:46:57,239 --> 01:47:00,399
Speaker 1: That sounds like it might be a. Person got this, person,

2295
01:47:00,479 --> 01:47:01,239
THOUGH i.

2296
01:47:01,199 --> 01:47:03,960
Speaker 2: Feel LIKE i may be being led. Down mike likes

2297
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:06,119
to use euro, players, though SO i don't think it's

2298
01:47:06,119 --> 01:47:09,000
going to be like a LIKE i don't know someone

2299
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:10,279
From asia Or africa or.

2300
01:47:10,279 --> 01:47:13,079
Speaker 1: Something that's another reason to join our discord Is grant

2301
01:47:13,159 --> 01:47:15,920
will give you a psychological profile his proprietary.

2302
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,039
Speaker 2: METRICS i like to try to get inside your. HEAD

2303
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:20,600
i need to know whose Picks i'm trying to figure.

2304
01:47:20,600 --> 01:47:22,760
Out all, RIGHT i don't have. It that's pretty.

2305
01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:24,880
Speaker 1: Clear you want me to move on to the next,

2306
01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:29,560
clue then Please clue number. Four after three seasons of

2307
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:31,479
being a bit player in two thousand and, six two

2308
01:47:31,479 --> 01:47:33,279
thousand and, SEVEN i scored a career high eleven point

2309
01:47:33,319 --> 01:47:33,960
one points per.

2310
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:37,800
Speaker 2: Game Mikail, petris you got.

2311
01:47:37,840 --> 01:47:42,880
Speaker 1: It four. Clues nice. Job here are the other. Clues

2312
01:47:43,319 --> 01:47:45,479
clue five was this season led me to signing with The,

2313
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:47,520
magic WHERE i was a good role player but showed

2314
01:47:47,520 --> 01:47:50,079
in the playoffs THAT i could not Guard. Kobe clue.

2315
01:47:50,119 --> 01:47:52,239
Six after my three year tenure with The, MAGIC i

2316
01:47:52,279 --> 01:47:55,239
bounced around to The, Suns, celtics And raptors before playing

2317
01:47:55,239 --> 01:47:57,800
In Puerto rico and finishing my career in my Native.

2318
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:01,479
France include number. Seven my nephew was a prospect in

2319
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:02,600
the twenty twenty four.

2320
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:08,159
Speaker 2: Draft oh, Interesting two things About Michael. Peatrice, uh just

2321
01:48:08,279 --> 01:48:11,479
like had moments as a. Rookie NOW i remember where

2322
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:13,520
it's like this guy is gonna be an all star,

2323
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:15,960
wing like two way. Wing just had the perfect. Frame,

2324
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:21,159
also never seen anyone step out of bounds more when

2325
01:48:21,279 --> 01:48:24,319
like in a triple threat about to attack a, defender

2326
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:27,760
constantly step out of. Bounds that's My Michael petrice scouting.

2327
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:30,119
Speaker 1: Report that's why people come To Hard, one not through

2328
01:48:30,159 --> 01:48:33,079
the obscure scouting reports of players from two decades.

2329
01:48:33,079 --> 01:48:36,239
Speaker 2: Ago basically The Brandon pajemski was not drafted in two

2330
01:48:36,239 --> 01:48:39,439
thousand and. Three that's the other. Reason all, RIGHT i

2331
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:42,000
have one for, you this also From mike who number.

2332
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:45,880
ONE i was drafted out OF unlv in nineteen ninety.

2333
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:49,880
NINE i love how it's all of your clues seem

2334
01:48:49,960 --> 01:48:53,479
to include college stuff and you just never know. It

2335
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:57,039
SO i, know all, RIGHT i was drafted out OF

2336
01:48:57,159 --> 01:49:00,680
unlv in nineteen ninety, nine ahead a Future nick's Legend

2337
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:04,239
Pablo prigioni and Current PISTONS Gm Trajan langdon who went.

2338
01:49:04,279 --> 01:49:06,720
Eleventh so that's just two other guys in the ninety nine.

2339
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:10,159
Draft ANY unlv from ninety nine guys you can think.

2340
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:15,960
Speaker 1: Of nineteen ninety, Nine, uh nineteen ninety? Nine how far

2341
01:49:16,039 --> 01:49:17,520
back is? It who could HAVE i should take a

2342
01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:21,720
stab in the dark with. Somebody Uh, no he didn't

2343
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:23,520
go to UN. Lv SEE i know Where Michael sweeten

2344
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,039
he went to. College AND i don't think that was

2345
01:49:26,119 --> 01:49:30,680
ninety nine. Either yeah he, was he Was, georgetown all. Right,

2346
01:49:31,359 --> 01:49:33,399
YEAH i don't even have a. Guess keep, going.

2347
01:49:33,399 --> 01:49:36,359
Speaker 2: All, Right despite clue number, two despite missing thirty one

2348
01:49:36,399 --> 01:49:39,159
games as a, ROOKIE i still Made All rookie second.

2349
01:49:39,159 --> 01:49:42,880
Speaker 1: Team despite missing thirty. Seven so he was nineteen ninety

2350
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:47,199
nine second Team All rookie is what we've established out OF. Unlv, Yep,

2351
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,319
god this is tough for someone who did not. Well

2352
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:56,960
how young WAS i in nineteen ninety. Nine holy, FUCK

2353
01:50:00,079 --> 01:50:01,520
i feel LIKE i should throw out like a name

2354
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:05,359
who was drafted like in ninety. Nine every. Player i'm

2355
01:50:05,399 --> 01:50:07,199
thinking it's too, late.

2356
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:11,279
Speaker 2: Right it's it's hard too because he hasn't given you

2357
01:50:11,359 --> 01:50:13,960
anything about like the type of player this, is so

2358
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:15,640
you don't even know like how to narrow it.

2359
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:18,000
Speaker 1: Down, YEAH i just need to think of like the,

2360
01:50:18,039 --> 01:50:21,159
time like who entered the league around ninety. Nine none

2361
01:50:21,199 --> 01:50:22,600
of the players that are springing to, MIND i know

2362
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,439
they didn't go TO, unlv so, yeah carry, on please.

2363
01:50:25,159 --> 01:50:28,279
Speaker 2: All Right clue. Three as a, SOPHOMORE i averaged seventeen

2364
01:50:28,319 --> 01:50:30,840
points a. Game so From All rookie second team to

2365
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:32,600
seventeen points in his second.

2366
01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:34,119
Speaker 1: Year in the year two.

2367
01:50:34,159 --> 01:50:35,039
Speaker 2: Thousands still.

2368
01:50:35,039 --> 01:50:37,880
Speaker 1: Tough, yeah Did Steve francis go to UN.

2369
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:41,760
Speaker 2: Lv he went To? Maryland that is, no but you're

2370
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:44,600
IN i think you're in the neighborhood like age, wise.

2371
01:50:51,159 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Seventeen Points i've knowed so at that time thinking of

2372
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:56,520
that time. Period could it just be a big for

2373
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:58,600
someone who scored that many points in nineteen ninety?

2374
01:50:58,680 --> 01:51:06,279
Speaker 2: NINE i have confidence in the like clue five to eight,

2375
01:51:06,399 --> 01:51:10,640
range there are. TEN i think you'll start dialing.

2376
01:51:10,680 --> 01:51:12,319
Speaker 1: In all, right hit me with clue number.

2377
01:51:12,359 --> 01:51:14,640
Speaker 2: Four clue four is in year FOUR i made my

2378
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:17,399
First All star, appearance averaging twenty one point two points a.

2379
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:19,399
Night so now we're now you, know he's An All

2380
01:51:19,439 --> 01:51:26,439
star drafted in ninety nine out OF. Unlv this Like Richard. Lewis,

2381
01:51:28,119 --> 01:51:30,960
no it's Not Richard. Lewis, think why are you thinking about?

2382
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:32,560
Speaker 1: It isn't the? Neighbor are you trying to figure this

2383
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:34,319
out with? Me? No, no, NO i don't know.

2384
01:51:34,319 --> 01:51:37,239
Speaker 2: WHY i like looked quizzically. Up it's Not Richard.

2385
01:51:37,319 --> 01:51:38,319
Speaker 1: Lewis Desmond.

2386
01:51:38,319 --> 01:51:40,479
Speaker 2: Mason Not Desmond.

2387
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:42,920
Speaker 1: Mason all, RIGHT i got nothing you.

2388
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:46,079
Speaker 2: GOING i made The All Star game every year from

2389
01:51:46,319 --> 01:51:48,840
five to, seven bringing my total to. Four so now

2390
01:51:48,880 --> 01:51:51,600
we're in Perennial All. Stars i'm gonna.

2391
01:51:51,319 --> 01:51:53,079
Speaker 1: Look like such an asshole WHEN i don't get.

2392
01:51:53,079 --> 01:51:55,359
Speaker 2: That this is STILL i wouldn't have got it, Yet,

2393
01:51:55,399 --> 01:51:58,399
like no? Chance all?

2394
01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:00,720
Speaker 1: Right so he made Four All stars teams between two

2395
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:03,399
thousand and four and two thousand and. Seven uh, yeah?

2396
01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:08,800
Yeah is that anybody's golden age of? Basketball probably.

2397
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:12,039
Speaker 2: Not that was a rough. Stretch, WELL i don't want

2398
01:52:12,079 --> 01:52:15,520
to give it. Away i'll just Say i'll say there

2399
01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:19,159
was something interesting happening for one team in that stretch of.

2400
01:52:19,720 --> 01:52:23,680
Speaker 1: Years, OOH i still don't have? It keep going all?

2401
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:26,399
Speaker 2: Right uh clu six after the two thousand and seven,

2402
01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:28,119
SEASON i was traded For.

2403
01:52:28,199 --> 01:52:32,600
Speaker 1: Shack So shaq in two thousand and, seven that's him

2404
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:37,439
going to The heat lamar Odom, No Brian, Grant no

2405
01:52:38,720 --> 01:52:40,680
the fuck else was involved in that? Trade DO i

2406
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:42,359
have the wrong? Time is that not the shows you?

2407
01:52:42,399 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 2: HAVE i think you Have shack going the wrong direction

2408
01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:46,520
From phoenix To.

2409
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:51,520
Speaker 1: Phoenix where'd he go After? Miami? Oh my? GOD i

2410
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:56,840
was traded For? Shaq this Is this is the timeline

2411
01:52:57,279 --> 01:52:59,680
That shaq was traded From miami right that that would

2412
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:02,399
have been his fourth. Team he wasn't already on his fourth.

2413
01:53:02,399 --> 01:53:04,560
TEAM i mean in two thousand and, seven was?

2414
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:07,000
Speaker 2: HE i, Mean i'm not Sure i'm allowed to answer your.

2415
01:53:07,039 --> 01:53:09,279
Speaker 1: Question yeah you. Can't i'm Just i'm talking loud right.

2416
01:53:09,319 --> 01:53:14,159
HERE i was traded For. Shack that's gonna be the

2417
01:53:14,159 --> 01:53:17,840
one That But shaq was traded a Few, YEAH i keep, Going.

2418
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:20,239
Speaker 2: Okay clue. SEVEN i played one year with The, heat

2419
01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:23,039
so you know this was someone going to The heat

2420
01:53:23,079 --> 01:53:28,119
For shack before going to The raptors at the deadline

2421
01:53:28,159 --> 01:53:29,880
For jermaine O'Neil And Jamrio.

2422
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:34,840
Speaker 1: Moon it's gonna bug the shit out of. Me WAS

2423
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:37,920
i don't remember Who phoenix traded For. SHACK i don't

2424
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:39,680
even Know i'm Saying. Phoenix i'm not even sure if

2425
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:41,880
That shack's fourth. Team let me, say because there's The,

2426
01:53:41,920 --> 01:53:46,399
calves there's The. Celtics where else was? He? UH i

2427
01:53:46,439 --> 01:53:47,039
still don't have.

2428
01:53:47,079 --> 01:53:53,520
Speaker 2: It So shack Goes Magic, Lakers Heat. Suns then then

2429
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:56,359
is It Cave? Celtics after? THAT i can't remember something like.

2430
01:53:56,399 --> 01:54:00,319
That keep, GOING i am all, Right clue Number in

2431
01:54:00,359 --> 01:54:02,600
the off, SEASON i signed a five, year thirty nine

2432
01:54:02,640 --> 01:54:05,479
million dollar deal with The, MAVs Brian.

2433
01:54:05,560 --> 01:54:11,399
Speaker 1: Cardinal that's a great, pull but it's never. TERRIFIC i

2434
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:14,199
just remember getting a ridiculous contract from the Mav all.

2435
01:54:14,279 --> 01:54:16,880
Right there's a Former All star, though and this is

2436
01:54:16,920 --> 01:54:17,960
what year did he signed with The.

2437
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:20,960
Speaker 2: MAVs, SORRY i guess we would be in so.

2438
01:54:21,079 --> 01:54:21,760
Speaker 1: Oh they didn't give a.

2439
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:24,039
Speaker 2: Year then he, Don't, well you can reverse engineer it

2440
01:54:24,079 --> 01:54:26,960
traded For shaq AND o seven so with The heat

2441
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:30,079
AND i guess that'd BE o seven oh eighth ends

2442
01:54:30,159 --> 01:54:32,079
up with The, raptors and then so you're in the,

2443
01:54:32,199 --> 01:54:34,520
like oh nine to ten range when he gets To

2444
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:37,159
dallas on that five year of thirty nine million dollar, Deal.

2445
01:54:38,479 --> 01:54:41,039
Speaker 1: Jason williams was He i'm just he was never on The.

2446
01:54:41,039 --> 01:54:43,840
Suns i'm just naming random. Players at this, POINT.

2447
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 2: I think you might get. It, well you got two clues.

2448
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:49,479
LEFT i think you're gonna get. It but it might be.

2449
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:53,199
Speaker 1: Tight so it was a five, year thirty nine million

2450
01:54:53,239 --> 01:54:57,600
dollar deal with The. MAVs i'm. Trying So i'm. Trying

2451
01:54:57,600 --> 01:54:59,079
i'm trying to, think AND i feel LIKE i might

2452
01:54:59,319 --> 01:55:02,479
might thought process might just be in the wrong. Realm

2453
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:04,239
So i'm never gonna get. This i'm trying to think, Of,

2454
01:55:04,399 --> 01:55:06,359
okay who played for The, suns The heat and The

2455
01:55:06,359 --> 01:55:08,119
mavericks is What i'm trying to figure out in my.

2456
01:55:08,199 --> 01:55:11,720
Head and The raptors. Too, yeah it's.

2457
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:15,199
Speaker 2: Tough The raptors one is LIKE i BARELY i would

2458
01:55:15,279 --> 01:55:17,199
not have IF i you made me list this guy's.

2459
01:55:17,199 --> 01:55:19,640
TEAMS i THINK i would have probably forgotten The. Raptors,

2460
01:55:20,399 --> 01:55:23,239
YEAH i, guess keep, going Please clue. NINE i was

2461
01:55:23,279 --> 01:55:24,439
part of The MAVs title.

2462
01:55:24,439 --> 01:55:31,079
Speaker 1: Team MAVs won the title in twenty. Eleven oh, wait

2463
01:55:31,079 --> 01:55:32,760
they also wanted well this is yeah twenty.

2464
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:34,560
Speaker 2: Eleven this is referring to.

2465
01:55:34,600 --> 01:55:37,039
Speaker 1: Eleven. Yeah, Uh Deshaun.

2466
01:55:37,079 --> 01:55:39,279
Speaker 2: Stevenson, no he was ever An All.

2467
01:55:39,319 --> 01:55:41,600
Speaker 1: Star tell doesn't matter with. Me Sean, marion.

2468
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:43,079
Speaker 2: That's, It Sean, Mary you got.

2469
01:55:43,079 --> 01:55:47,960
Speaker 1: It why WAS i naming players that were clearly Never All? Stars?

2470
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:48,840
Too so?

2471
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:51,079
Speaker 2: Bad because that's why this game is, hard is because

2472
01:55:51,079 --> 01:55:52,560
you can't keep all that in your head at the

2473
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:55,560
same time under. Pressure all, right got? It so the

2474
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:59,399
last clue was in twenty, FOURTEEN i became the FIRST

2475
01:55:59,479 --> 01:56:02,520
nba player in history with fifteen thousand, points ten thousand,

2476
01:56:02,600 --> 01:56:05,960
rebounds one thousand, blocks and five hundred. Threes THAT i.

2477
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:08,439
Speaker 1: Might have that would have been like the it was.

2478
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:12,119
Speaker 2: Credit, mike because there's really no mention at all of

2479
01:56:12,199 --> 01:56:15,000
the seven seconds or less like suns, stuff which is

2480
01:56:15,039 --> 01:56:16,840
WHAT i was referring, to and like there was something

2481
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:19,439
interesting going on at this at this.

2482
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:23,039
Speaker 1: STAGE i never would have guessed the rap like because

2483
01:56:23,079 --> 01:56:25,640
The raptors THAT i never would have Guess Sewan marian.

2484
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 2: M, Hmm, yeah the raptors thing like even the shack.

2485
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:31,640
TRADE i would have struggled to get. There that's why

2486
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:32,079
it's a good.

2487
01:56:32,079 --> 01:56:34,920
Speaker 1: Clue at LEAST i got that the heat WHERE i,

2488
01:56:35,279 --> 01:56:36,800
WELL i first didn't get. It at LEAST i got

2489
01:56:36,840 --> 01:56:38,239
that that was around the time that it was the,

2490
01:56:38,279 --> 01:56:39,479
heat because he was just all over the.

2491
01:56:39,479 --> 01:56:42,239
Speaker 2: Place and that's where where you where you fall off

2492
01:56:42,279 --> 01:56:45,399
in the college, knowledge you always make up for it

2493
01:56:45,439 --> 01:56:48,159
and remembering who was traded for who WHICH i.

2494
01:56:48,159 --> 01:56:51,840
Speaker 1: Don't, well what do you? Say one more? Each all?

2495
01:56:51,920 --> 01:56:52,800
Speaker 2: Right are?

2496
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 1: You are you? Ready strap? In guess a player number

2497
01:56:55,920 --> 01:56:59,359
two for grant clue number. One despite leading my college

2498
01:56:59,399 --> 01:57:02,239
program to a national, title my Coach Jim calhoun was

2499
01:57:02,319 --> 01:57:06,199
under consistent scrutiny from local media for quote unquote choosing

2500
01:57:06,279 --> 01:57:09,840
me and Teammate Karan butler Over Ryan gomez coming out

2501
01:57:09,880 --> 01:57:12,600
of high. School fun, fact both of us would have

2502
01:57:12,680 --> 01:57:13,760
better careers Than Ryan.

2503
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 2: Gomez, yeah, okay teammate With Koran. Butler, Uh i'll just

2504
01:57:20,119 --> 01:57:23,000
Guess Ben. Gordon that is it is Not Ben. Gordon

2505
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:27,239
see this IS i don't have great college knowledge, either

2506
01:57:27,359 --> 01:57:30,720
BUT i think we're In yukon, territory SO i.

2507
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 1: Hope.

2508
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:33,399
Speaker 2: Man If i'm wrong on, that that's. Embarrassing But i'll take.

2509
01:57:33,399 --> 01:57:36,079
This i'll take the next, clue please clue number.

2510
01:57:36,079 --> 01:57:38,159
Speaker 1: TWO i was a lottery selection in two thousand and

2511
01:57:38,199 --> 01:57:40,079
four and went to a young team that had no

2512
01:57:40,199 --> 01:57:41,760
idea what they were trying to.

2513
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:47,840
Speaker 2: Build uh oh H Kemba, Walker, No, no that's too.

2514
01:57:47,880 --> 01:57:50,680
Late who else went To? Yukon Jake voskel.

2515
01:57:53,079 --> 01:57:56,680
Speaker 1: Is that? It? No but that's such a good.

2516
01:57:56,840 --> 01:57:59,840
Speaker 2: Ball, WELL i don't know.

2517
01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:00,840
Speaker 1: HOW i. DON'T i.

2518
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:05,399
Speaker 2: CAN'T i can't even think of any Other yukon. Players damn. It,

2519
01:58:08,359 --> 01:58:11,039
Also James bosco probably played in like the, nineties AND i.

2520
01:58:11,039 --> 01:58:12,840
Speaker 1: Can't it's hard because you have to. Know it's not

2521
01:58:12,880 --> 01:58:14,239
just a matter of, knowing like you have to know

2522
01:58:14,319 --> 01:58:15,199
the time period of.

2523
01:58:15,239 --> 01:58:17,800
Speaker 2: College, Well Coron butler should anchor it a little. Bit

2524
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:20,840
And i'm, thinking but he was like around he was

2525
01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:24,840
early two, THOUSANDS i think when he came into the.

2526
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:31,720
League but, ah, man so it's, OKAY i.

2527
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:32,319
Speaker 1: DON'T i don't have.

2528
01:58:32,359 --> 01:58:34,640
Speaker 2: It i'll take another, clue, Please clue.

2529
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:38,359
Speaker 1: THREE i won bronze with THE Us olympic team before

2530
01:58:38,359 --> 01:58:39,119
ever playing in THE.

2531
01:58:39,239 --> 01:58:46,479
Speaker 2: Nba oh uh uh amica okaphor, Correct, okay you did

2532
01:58:46,479 --> 01:58:49,000
that on guess? Three h SHOULD i should have got

2533
01:58:49,079 --> 01:58:50,920
that on went to a team that had no idea

2534
01:58:50,960 --> 01:58:51,319
what it was.

2535
01:58:51,359 --> 01:58:55,720
Speaker 1: Doing, yeah your hit rate was very impressive, Here So clue.

2536
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:58,039
FOUR i averaged a career high in points as a

2537
01:58:58,079 --> 01:59:02,000
rookie with fifteen. Injuries injuries are a, bitch as they

2538
01:59:02,039 --> 01:59:04,159
cost me much of the next two. Seasons that WAS clu,

2539
01:59:04,239 --> 01:59:06,119
Five clue six and two thousand and. NINE i was

2540
01:59:06,119 --> 01:59:08,359
traded For Tyson chandler in a money saving. MOVE clu.

2541
01:59:08,439 --> 01:59:11,119
SEVEN i was part Of New orleans for three years

2542
01:59:11,199 --> 01:59:15,119
UNTIL i was moved To washington for a. Year what is?

2543
01:59:15,159 --> 01:59:18,119
That injuries put my career on. HOLD clu. EIGHT i

2544
01:59:18,119 --> 01:59:20,560
would miss four seasons trying to get clear before ultimately

2545
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:22,800
returning in twenty eighteen with The Pelican with the Now

2546
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,399
PELICANS clu. Nine you might Think i'm a, bust BUT

2547
01:59:25,439 --> 01:59:27,840
i averaged twelve points and nine point seven rebounds for my.

2548
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:31,319
Speaker 2: Career yeah, yeah oh, Man SO i think he was

2549
01:59:31,479 --> 01:59:36,000
The Dwight howard DRAFT i think, right, yeah where it, Was, yeah, well,

2550
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:40,439
boy this is dating. US i can remember at some,

2551
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:45,880
point really early in that process writing or like kicking

2552
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:48,319
around the idea of like what Do folka four actually

2553
01:59:48,439 --> 01:59:50,399
was the bitter pick like because at some POINT i

2554
01:59:50,399 --> 01:59:53,000
think our was like had a you've got fifteen and

2555
01:59:53,079 --> 01:59:53,840
something in his rookie.

2556
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:55,640
Speaker 1: Year you said he Won rookie of The year Over.

2557
01:59:55,720 --> 01:59:59,319
Dwight he averaged fifteen eleven rebounds and then one point

2558
01:59:59,359 --> 02:00:03,359
seven blocks per, game shot forty four point. Twos he

2559
02:00:03,359 --> 02:00:05,640
would never have won it in TODAY'S. Nba my, god not.

2560
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:11,520
Speaker 2: Good all, RIGHT i will offer YOU i feel like

2561
02:00:11,560 --> 02:00:14,439
we've done this, one but it's been long enough to

2562
02:00:14,520 --> 02:00:18,359
Where i'm sure you don't remember. It so here we.

2563
02:00:18,399 --> 02:00:20,760
Speaker 1: Go well we know it is all either one, shot

2564
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:22,439
kill it or not get it at. ALL i think

2565
02:00:22,560 --> 02:00:24,680
is THE i don't.

2566
02:00:24,479 --> 02:00:27,159
Speaker 2: Hate your odds, here even though it does reference college

2567
02:00:27,199 --> 02:00:30,880
for the first several. Clues all, Right clue, ONE i

2568
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:33,920
was a. DANCE i was a dance craze during my freshman.

2569
02:00:33,960 --> 02:00:37,920
Speaker 1: SEASON i was a Dance is that referring to like

2570
02:00:38,039 --> 02:00:40,039
The March Madness? TOURNAMENT i was a dance.

2571
02:00:40,079 --> 02:00:43,079
Speaker 2: CRAZE i, Can't i'm not. Gonna i'm just reading what's

2572
02:00:43,119 --> 02:00:43,920
on the sheet?

2573
02:00:43,960 --> 02:00:44,760
Speaker 1: Here can you read it?

2574
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:48,359
Speaker 2: BACK i was a dance craze during my freshman. SEASON

2575
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:56,439
i would, Say i'll. Editorialize uh this person, was.

2576
02:00:58,279 --> 02:00:59,720
Speaker 1: It DOESN'T i don't even have the YEAR i?

2577
02:01:00,039 --> 02:01:04,520
Speaker 2: Like, YEAH i would, say speaking, Personally, stephan this person

2578
02:01:05,119 --> 02:01:07,840
made me aware of a dance THAT i had not

2579
02:01:07,960 --> 02:01:10,920
been aware of at the. Time how about?

2580
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:14,079
Speaker 1: That and it's pop culture and College i'm screwed a little,

2581
02:01:14,079 --> 02:01:15,239
bit all.

2582
02:01:15,319 --> 02:01:18,439
Speaker 2: Right clue number. TWO i was the first Ever Kentucky

2583
02:01:18,439 --> 02:01:20,079
wildcat to be selected number one.

2584
02:01:20,119 --> 02:01:26,039
Speaker 1: OVERALL i should just take a stab at A Kentucky.

2585
02:01:26,039 --> 02:01:35,840
Wildcat Yeavy davis wasn't selected first? Overall? Uh why DON'T

2586
02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:41,479
i have this First Kentucky? Wildcats what's not tow? SHIT

2587
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:42,239
i don't know how keep.

2588
02:01:42,239 --> 02:01:45,279
Speaker 2: Going clue number. Three My Kentucky wildcats set a record

2589
02:01:45,319 --> 02:01:48,079
with five first round picks in the same draft the

2590
02:01:48,159 --> 02:01:49,439
YEAR i was selected led by?

2591
02:01:49,439 --> 02:01:54,560
Speaker 1: Me is This Karl Anthony?

2592
02:01:54,560 --> 02:01:59,680
Speaker 2: Towns so it's a number one overall pick From kentucky before?

2593
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:03,520
HIM i don't THINK i could Name MAYBE i could

2594
02:02:03,680 --> 02:02:06,000
name them. ALL i don't think.

2595
02:02:05,880 --> 02:02:10,159
Speaker 1: So who went number? ONE i should have this one.

2596
02:02:10,199 --> 02:02:12,239
ALREADY i feel LIKE i feel LIKE i remember the

2597
02:02:12,279 --> 02:02:16,039
other guys who are on that, team which puts the

2598
02:02:16,159 --> 02:02:20,960
date around what, THOUGH i think you're gonna HAVE i

2599
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:21,439
guess keep.

2600
02:02:21,479 --> 02:02:24,680
Speaker 2: Going you will get this, one not necessarily this clue

2601
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:27,720
BECAUSE i didn't know this number. Four the team that drafted,

2602
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:30,159
me was considered a controversial team to get the first,

2603
02:02:30,159 --> 02:02:32,640
pick as many thought they'd been awarded the top pick

2604
02:02:32,680 --> 02:02:36,680
after their owner had passed away during the. SEASON i

2605
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:37,000
have no.

2606
02:02:37,079 --> 02:02:38,760
Speaker 1: RECOLLECTION i don't remember this slant at.

2607
02:02:38,760 --> 02:02:43,840
Speaker 2: All, okay, YEAH i wouldn't focus on that. One disregard that.

2608
02:02:43,920 --> 02:02:45,279
Clue it's gonna.

2609
02:02:45,039 --> 02:02:47,319
Speaker 1: Throw h hit me with clue, four the clue.

2610
02:02:47,359 --> 02:02:49,920
Speaker 2: FIVE i was named to the first Team All rookie

2611
02:02:50,159 --> 02:02:52,000
after averaging sixteen points and eight.

2612
02:02:52,039 --> 02:03:05,880
Speaker 3: Assists oh, no oh, god this is.

2613
02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:06,840
Speaker 1: Good i'm gonna be so.

2614
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:09,800
Speaker 2: Mad CAN I CAN i summarize in a way they'll

2615
02:03:09,800 --> 02:03:14,159
hopefully be? Helpful number one pick out Of kentucky first

2616
02:03:14,199 --> 02:03:19,960
Team All rookie sixteen and, eight and it's four. Towns

2617
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:20,760
that's that's? All you?

2618
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:23,159
Speaker 1: Know time wise so. Far banging my head against my

2619
02:03:23,199 --> 02:03:27,239
microphone right, Now i'm so why DON'T i know? This

2620
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:33,880
sixteen and? Eight that Was rookie rookie season numbers, correct.

2621
02:03:33,800 --> 02:03:36,399
Speaker 2: Sixteen points eight. Assists it's a lot of assists for a.

2622
02:03:36,479 --> 02:03:40,119
Speaker 1: Rookie sixteen points. Eight, yeah that's just there can't be

2623
02:03:40,199 --> 02:03:44,520
many who have averaged eight, assists AND i feel who

2624
02:03:44,720 --> 02:03:45,000
BUT i.

2625
02:03:45,039 --> 02:03:49,479
Speaker 2: Can't this is a great player to pick because it's

2626
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:53,000
like he's a big, deal but just not someone you've

2627
02:03:53,039 --> 02:03:53,960
given a lot of thought to.

2628
02:03:54,239 --> 02:03:58,600
Speaker 1: RECENTLY i think you're gonna have to keep.

2629
02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:01,680
Speaker 2: Going this is, RIGHT i like your chances. Still clue.

2630
02:04:01,760 --> 02:04:04,239
Six the team got my running mate two years, later

2631
02:04:04,319 --> 02:04:07,319
and we started consistently making the playoffs but not being

2632
02:04:07,399 --> 02:04:09,920
much of a. Factor when we, did we did sweep

2633
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:11,840
a four seed along the, way but that was about.

2634
02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:16,680
Speaker 1: It my team did Get Kiri thatt one more.

2635
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:19,840
Speaker 2: Time, okay the team got my running mate two years,

2636
02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:22,960
later and we started consistently making the playoffs but not

2637
02:04:23,000 --> 02:04:24,840
being much of a. Factor when we, did we did

2638
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:27,439
sweep a four seed along the, way but that was about.

2639
02:04:27,439 --> 02:04:32,399
It don't remember that, series but ap app to description

2640
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:34,960
as far as like making the playoffs but not doing

2641
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:36,439
anything generally.

2642
02:04:37,720 --> 02:04:45,920
Speaker 1: Got my running. MATE i have no. Idea keep.

2643
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:49,039
Speaker 2: Going all, right this we're getting closer. Here you've got ten.

2644
02:04:49,079 --> 02:04:52,520
Clues this is clue. Seven a hyper. Athlete injuries started

2645
02:04:52,520 --> 02:04:54,920
slowing me down around my age twenty five, season AND

2646
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:56,600
i stopped being able to consistently.

2647
02:04:56,640 --> 02:05:04,520
Speaker 1: Play i'm, like why why CAN'T i get?

2648
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:06,640
Speaker 2: This you're gonna get It on the next, ONE i,

2649
02:05:06,640 --> 02:05:08,039
think all.

2650
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:09,680
Speaker 1: RIGHT i NEED i need to throw a name out,

2651
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:12,880
there but, like who just went To? KENTUCKY i feel

2652
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:14,960
LIKE i know maybe the, year but Now i'm thinking

2653
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:16,600
because of the sixteen and, EIGHT i Don't and the

2654
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:18,399
running mate, THING i don't even THINK i, know like

2655
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:27,039
teammate his TEAMMATES h got my running mate in the?

2656
02:05:27,079 --> 02:05:31,520
Playoffs never really a playoff. Threat where did JEFF t go?

2657
02:05:31,600 --> 02:05:33,600
To school's A jeff D Jeff?

2658
02:05:33,600 --> 02:05:35,520
Speaker 2: T i think he went to Like Georgia tech or.

2659
02:05:35,560 --> 02:05:41,680
Something give me the next. Clue all, RIGHT i was

2660
02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:43,239
going to give you an extra, clue BUT i won't do.

2661
02:05:43,279 --> 02:05:47,199
That clue. EIGHT i was traded To houston in my

2662
02:05:47,319 --> 02:05:50,960
tenth season for another point guard many had started to

2663
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:56,520
give up. ON i was traded To houston in my

2664
02:05:56,680 --> 02:06:01,159
age what, season tenth, season tenth season for a player

2665
02:06:01,279 --> 02:06:05,279
many had given up, On for another point guard many

2666
02:06:05,319 --> 02:06:07,199
had started to give up. On and the wording is

2667
02:06:07,279 --> 02:06:09,760
another point, Guard so you can't infer that we're talking

2668
02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:10,600
about a point guard.

2669
02:06:10,600 --> 02:06:14,920
Speaker 1: Here sixteen and. Eight that was pretty. Clear, Yeah i'm

2670
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:18,560
you know so he can you read that one more?

2671
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:21,439
Speaker 2: TIME i was traded To houston in my tenth season

2672
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:24,199
for another point. Guard many had started to give up on.

2673
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:33,279
Speaker 1: Who else was involved. IN i don't have. It what's

2674
02:06:33,319 --> 02:06:35,119
the next last? Clue you? Got two?

2675
02:06:35,119 --> 02:06:37,359
Speaker 2: More number? NINE i was injured for all of my

2676
02:06:37,399 --> 02:06:39,720
second season In. Houston they ended up paying me forty

2677
02:06:39,800 --> 02:06:40,960
million dollars to stay.

2678
02:06:40,960 --> 02:06:46,680
Speaker 1: Home oh, Fuck John? Wall you got?

2679
02:06:46,720 --> 02:06:52,159
Speaker 2: It so you don't? Remember like when he would come

2680
02:06:52,159 --> 02:06:54,680
out for intros At, kentucky he would.

2681
02:06:54,479 --> 02:06:56,359
Speaker 1: Like do it, NOW i do do? THAT i had

2682
02:06:56,399 --> 02:06:59,840
that song on my. Playlist do The John? WALL i had,

2683
02:06:59,840 --> 02:07:03,560
that SO i have that is a? Miss oh, hey

2684
02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:03,960
you got?

2685
02:07:03,960 --> 02:07:06,760
Speaker 2: IT a clue ten would have. BEEN i signed with

2686
02:07:06,760 --> 02:07:09,199
The clippers two years ago to play forty plus, games

2687
02:07:09,239 --> 02:07:11,680
but didn't play in the twenty three twenty four. Season

2688
02:07:11,800 --> 02:07:12,479
I'm John.

2689
02:07:12,279 --> 02:07:15,279
Speaker 1: Wall who was his running mate that they.

2690
02:07:15,199 --> 02:07:18,039
Speaker 2: Got BIAL i assume it's whore he's referring.

2691
02:07:18,079 --> 02:07:21,319
Speaker 1: To but he didn't go To. Kentucky, no it.

2692
02:07:21,359 --> 02:07:22,399
Speaker 2: Did that's not part of the.

2693
02:07:22,600 --> 02:07:24,960
Speaker 1: Question, OH i got hung up on. IT i thought

2694
02:07:24,960 --> 02:07:29,439
they acquired his running Meat. Kentucky SO i was, like WHAT.

2695
02:07:29,600 --> 02:07:32,159
Speaker 2: I could see? That? Yeah, NO I i it was

2696
02:07:32,239 --> 02:07:34,760
meant as like they got his running mate with The.

2697
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:40,399
Wizards Who so That kentucky class Was? Cousins wall was

2698
02:07:40,439 --> 02:07:43,159
Like Patrick patterson or something That booker.

2699
02:07:43,239 --> 02:07:44,520
Speaker 1: Draft that's too, early, Right.

2700
02:07:44,520 --> 02:07:46,720
Speaker 2: NO i think it's too. Early was So Willie Cawley

2701
02:07:46,760 --> 02:07:51,960
stein was with kat right and Not. Cousins AND i. Can't, oh,

2702
02:07:52,000 --> 02:07:54,720
MAN i don't. KNOW i Think I've I've i've used

2703
02:07:54,760 --> 02:07:55,520
up My kentucky.

2704
02:07:55,560 --> 02:07:58,039
Speaker 1: Knowledge, wait so What So John wall was? Drafted what

2705
02:07:58,119 --> 02:08:01,520
year was that? Again John wall was two thousand? Eleven? Right, no,

2706
02:08:02,359 --> 02:08:05,600
yeah what was? It john almost twenty? Eleven what's? Wrong twenty? Ten?

2707
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:07,880
Speaker 2: Sorry With cousins and who?

2708
02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:11,279
Speaker 1: Else So DeMarcus cousins went To Kentucky Patrick, PATTERSON i

2709
02:08:12,159 --> 02:08:15,560
was using all in On Patrick. Patterson uh he? Went

2710
02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:19,399
So John wall number, One Wesley johnson number? Four oh, no,

2711
02:08:19,399 --> 02:08:22,760
wait he didn't go he went To. Syracuse, SORRY dmc number,

2712
02:08:22,840 --> 02:08:26,840
Five Patrick patterson number, Fourteen Eric bletsoe. Eighteen that was

2713
02:08:26,880 --> 02:08:30,279
the NAME i glombed Onto and Then Daniel orton at

2714
02:08:30,359 --> 02:08:33,359
number twenty, nine big. Guy and then there was another

2715
02:08:33,399 --> 02:08:37,039
one number fifty Five Jeremy, evans Six kentucky players winning that.

2716
02:08:37,079 --> 02:08:40,640
Speaker 2: Track, wow, okay, hey, uh let me give a just

2717
02:08:40,640 --> 02:08:41,760
because he did?

2718
02:08:41,840 --> 02:08:42,039
Speaker 1: Him?

2719
02:08:42,239 --> 02:08:46,800
Speaker 2: Uh, dan Who's Bill walton talking about a phenomenal performance

2720
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:50,600
By blank just pounding the? Glass is he talking About Elton,

2721
02:08:50,640 --> 02:08:56,399
Brand Kevin, GARNETT. Pj, Brown Paiges soyakovic Or Fred, Hoiberg Fred.

2722
02:08:56,399 --> 02:08:59,279
Hoiberg that is, Correct you've you've cracked the bulllog.

2723
02:08:59,399 --> 02:09:01,039
Speaker 1: GAME i had to give you one of The bill Walt.

2724
02:09:01,079 --> 02:09:02,680
Ons we can save the other. Ones but who Is

2725
02:09:02,720 --> 02:09:06,520
Bill walton talking About Grant blank winner of The Genetic?

2726
02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:10,880
Lottery is It Matt, Bonner Amari, Stotdameier Tim, Thomas Ben

2727
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:11,760
gordon Or ron Our.

2728
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:15,560
Speaker 2: Test it should be A Mariy. Stottamayer what was the

2729
02:09:15,560 --> 02:09:18,640
first name you, Said Matt? Bonner he's gonna say it's

2730
02:09:18,680 --> 02:09:19,039
It's Matt.

2731
02:09:19,079 --> 02:09:21,760
Speaker 1: Bonner WHENEVER i read, THAT i think Of Matt. Bomber

2732
02:09:22,199 --> 02:09:23,920
uh BECAUSE i used to watch the Show White. Collar

2733
02:09:23,960 --> 02:09:25,079
but it's actually A Maris.

2734
02:09:25,119 --> 02:09:28,800
Speaker 2: Stottamayer, oh good, Job, bill THAT i got an accurate.

2735
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:30,840
One uh got anything.

2736
02:09:30,840 --> 02:09:33,000
Speaker 1: Else, no thank You mike for those that. Was that

2737
02:09:33,079 --> 02:09:34,680
was a nice little. Return LIKE i, said we could

2738
02:09:34,680 --> 02:09:36,920
try and do these maybe once a, week or if

2739
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:38,640
we're if we're just gonna exchange to each maybe it

2740
02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:40,159
could be at the end of each. Pod but send them.

2741
02:09:40,199 --> 02:09:44,159
In i'll create the discord room before this podcast goes

2742
02:09:44,199 --> 02:09:46,640
out for your, submissions or Maybe i'll wait till after

2743
02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:49,720
so it's not people were Only mike KNOWS i guess

2744
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:51,239
the player is coming, back so MAYBE i should wait

2745
02:09:51,279 --> 02:09:54,319
until the podcast. Drops then the day After i'll make

2746
02:09:54,359 --> 02:09:56,560
the subservers for J, YES i.

2747
02:09:56,560 --> 02:09:59,720
Speaker 2: WOULD i would echo those thanks as usually, everybody thanks for,

2748
02:09:59,720 --> 02:10:04,479
listening for, Watching thanks for the. Contributions mike, again submit

2749
02:10:04,720 --> 02:10:07,359
file them like give us give us. Some those WERE

2750
02:10:07,680 --> 02:10:10,359
i think exemplary of the level of difficulty that makes

2751
02:10:10,359 --> 02:10:13,000
for a good guess a. Player anything easier.

2752
02:10:12,680 --> 02:10:16,000
Speaker 1: Is i'm sufficiently like self loathing right.

2753
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:17,880
Speaker 2: Now you got, them but you hate yourself a little,

2754
02:10:17,880 --> 02:10:19,640
bit which is exactly where you want to be at

2755
02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:20,319
the end of A guessa.

2756
02:10:20,319 --> 02:10:22,079
Speaker 1: Player you killed, it though this time you had two

2757
02:10:22,479 --> 02:10:24,439
like less than halfway. Through you got, it.

2758
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:28,680
Speaker 2: You, know just, uh it's kind of like just helps

2759
02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:30,119
to come in. FRESH i don't have any of the

2760
02:10:30,119 --> 02:10:34,079
stigma of my past failures still bother. Me ring Review

2761
02:10:34,119 --> 02:10:36,159
subscribe check us out on. YouTube make sure you're subscribed.

2762
02:10:36,159 --> 02:10:37,960
There leave us some comments on this. Video As dan,

2763
02:10:38,039 --> 02:10:41,039
mentioned let us know any of our. Oversights praise our.

2764
02:10:41,079 --> 02:10:44,800
SUCCESSES u you, know uh lambast us for our, failures

2765
02:10:44,800 --> 02:10:46,760
all that good. Stuff join our discord links for that

2766
02:10:46,760 --> 02:10:50,159
in YouTube and podcast. Subscriptions that's, it Shouts frank Mil

2767
02:10:50,239 --> 02:10:51,399
Keen apologies Chaired allen