Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am DANP. Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, the indelible, the legendary,
the certified, fantabulous co host of the Hardwood Knox podcast,
mister Grant Hughes. It's awards check in time, second to
last time. We'll be doing awards. The next time we
do it, we will be making our final awards picks.
And when we do it, here's some more incentives to
join our discord. We want our listeners to come up
with categories that don't exist. We will pick our favorite
ones and then give our ballots for those awards categories.
They could be ridiculous, but we're also we would encourage
nominations for like actual award categories that you would maybe
like to see. A popular one has been most Improved
Team something like that, or most Entertaining Team or something.
So keep that in your minds. Go join our discord.
If you haven't yet, and if you're watching this right
now and haven't subscribed, I don't know what you're doing.
A post taste remedy that Grant, how are we doing
before we canon ball into these awards?
Speaker 2: I would just add, like for people submitting categories. It
can be things like most improved Team, but I think
we would also appreciate weirder ones like just however you
want whatever direction you want to take that like best
wrong footed floater, like we'll have to research that, of course.
Speaker 1: Shoulders like.
Speaker 2: You give nothing nothing's nothing's out of Browns. I want
to ask you before we start, do you feel like,
because this is now the third because we did this
might be the fourth time, because we did like preseason awards,
I think, and then we did quarter half. This is
the three quarter mark. Is this getting easier for you
or harder?
Speaker 1: It's getting it's actually getting harder, because you would think
as players get eliminated from eligibility that it's all it
opens up spots for these guys. But you get to
a point and I feel like we reached it definitely
with the last wave of injuries between Kyrie a d
Webbin Yama Fox not that I don't even if he
would have have picked, like him not being eligible anymore,
Luca hasn't been eligible for a while, and you're also
kind of in the back of your mind sitting here wondering, okay,
like Lebron's gonna return while he's still eligible, right, So
it just it makes me think more and then I
feel like I'm giving it to more undeservement because like
at the top, it's normally easier, and now it's like,
oh no, building first team all NBA was hell fire
for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's been harder to part for all
those reasons, and also because these are just getting closer
to It's so much easier to say Darius Garland deserves
X halfway through the season or a quarter of the
way through the season, and then you get down towards
the end and it's like these are getting closer to
the official picks on you know, whatever official means for us.
But it's like this kind of needs to be right
or I feel that way, you know, And it's the
impending finality of the picks feels like it makes makes
me more concerned about choosing the wrong guy, so I
like agonize over it a little more. The farther we get,
even with like just some some options being stripped away,
so some tough decisions are kind of we're saved from those.
But all that all that means is at the back
end of these ballots, like for all NBA teams, it's
like you have a lot of really similar level guys
that you have to choose between, and that makes it
harder too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I have two questions for you on
that one. Well, this is more of a note from
the both of us. So we're doing this uniform. Where
this is we're making our picks for these awards, So
these are not predictions of who we think will actually
win or who people are going to vote for overall.
And it's not anymore sort of Okay, Victor Wembenyama, based
off the number of games that he has played to
this point, you could still pick him and he would
be Defensive Player of the Year. But if we know
that you're not going to be available, like or you're
not going to be eligible, we just automatically ruled you out.
It's Victor Wembenyama does not appear here. He would have
won Defensive Player of the Year if he was healthy.
That's how we approached it. So that wasn't a question.
That was a housekeeping note. I wanted to ask you, Grant,
what was the hardest awards, Like hardest category, whether it
was like a full all NBA or defense team, were
like a particular award for you to cobble together.
Speaker 2: I think there were two that I struggled most with.
One was an individual which was Defensive Player of the Year,
because it was like we were done thinking about this
when Wemby was healthy, like pretty early in the year,
and it's like, let's he's got it. Let's just figure
out who's like second, third, honorable mention whatever. And then
my last All NBA first team spot was I spent
the most time, uh thinking about, because that's another one.
I think we had Wemby there for a good stretch
as well, Like I know, I think last time we
did this, he was a first teamer for both of us,
and then I think we you know, at points of
the season it's been like Brunson's there, Like is Mobile there?
What about Jaron Jackson? And like it's so the guy
I picked is none of those people. I just that
was the hardest one because it felt like that was
kind of spoken for until it wasn't.
Speaker 1: I yeah, that's a good I didn't even view it
through that lens. I struggled with most Improved Player for
some reason, I'm getting Yeah, I'm getting too caught up
in like defining whether I think like who should be
It's like the so I didn't consider any sophomores, But
it's like that type of thing, like, oh, should these
big name players who are already good be eligible for it?
And that's the war that always just trips me up
when I'm trying to hammer down, like my own personal
criteria for it.
Speaker 2: It's the one that's like, right, it's not even your
personal criteria. It's like, what the fuck does this award
even mean? Like what's it supposed to? Like? What kinds
of improvements are we talking about? So, yeah, I should
have said that too. That's always a I think for me,
I just decided, like, here's what I think this award
means and just went with it. And I don't know
if that that's right, but in that way it kind
of simplified what I ended up doing.
Speaker 1: Well, if we already should we get should we get started?
Speaker 2: We shall?
Speaker 1: We begin with our MVP ballots I will, which are
eerily similar. For the well the Shocker, Dan and Grant
have similar thoughts. We have to start with the Shay
guildges Alexander versus Nicola Jokic of it all, we both
have Jokic over shake gilg as Alexander for anyone who
is watching, But they're one and two. I before we
get into the differentiators, I do very much view them
this point as it's like one A one B or
one A one A, where if you're going to pick
Shay over Jokic, because I approach this saying I want
to make a case for Shay over Jokic, and I
think there's one that's there. It just for me personally
wasn't strong enough. And if you're going to say it's
a tie, which maybe it is, then I'm just going
to default to the better player. And I believe that
Nikola Jokic is the best player in the world. So
if the margins are that close, that's going to be
what I would consider a worthwhile separator.
Speaker 2: I would I would echo all that. I also have
Jokic winning it. I believe he's the MVP. I think
you and I both agree like Shay is gonna win
this award. I think the momentum is like pretty much
irreversible at this point. And again every word of this
part of the conversation, I feel like we both want
to couch with Sga is an MVP caliber player like
he This is one of the greatest guard seasons we've
ever seen. He's doing it for a team that is
running away with a good Western car. Like, there's nothing
we say in Jokic's favor is like is knocking Shay down.
I don't feel like we should have to say that,
but I guess everybody has decided the MVP discourse is toxic,
So let's be like really really not toxic about it.
I don't know, I don't think it. I don't think
we should have to bend over backwards to lay out
how good Sga is and how deserving he would be
if he won it. But that's the caveat before we
go any farther.
Speaker 1: For this podcast specifically too, If we have to give
caveats about the thunder and the things that we have
said about them, like over even before they started being good,
like that would just be ridiculous. But yeah, it's you
invariably have to be well, this is why Shay can't
win it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So can I ask you, did you uh? I
know we come into this open minded? Did you come
into this just the Sga Jokic decision with I think
it's this guy as like a starting point and then
crunch numbers or like you know what I mean, Like,
how firm was your opinion going into prepping for today this?
Speaker 1: So the first two times we did this, my opinion
was pretty firm and I was I have never doubted
going into it. I knew what my picks were like
the previous two times, so I knew I had Jokic,
but I went into saying you're not gonna end up
kind of picking Yo. Like it was that level of
second guessing and when I dug into it, the biggest
differentiator for me is that you have to believe that
the value Shay provides on defense, like that gap between
him and Yokic makes up for a gap that still
exists on offense, which I think Shay Gilgick's Alexander has
thinned out. But you look at like Jokic, the Nuggets
offensive rating outside garbage time with him on the floor
is like one twenty eight point four. That is obscene.
That is way higher than the offensive rating that the
thunder have with Hay on the court. Now, if you
flip flop it to defense, okay, maybe I'd feel differently
if I thought Shay was the Okayc's best defender. But
I think what really just makes the difference is I'm
always gonna gravitate towards the lifelines for this for offenses
in this conversation, and there's still a gap when you're
looking at the passing specifically, like they're they're on the
same level as a score. Like I think that Jokic
is just put like the way that he thinks and
manipulates the game as a passer. It's not well like
Shay really needs to catch up to him. It's over.
Nobody's catching up to Kola Jokic in that regard right now,
And I just when I'm watching him, he's still doing
things or just like picking up heart defenses and drawing
a type of attention to where Nuggets fans are now
talking about like the Jokic rules because of the way
that some teams have tried guarding him lately. It's the
fact that Shay is so mission critical to a team
that is historically good. He can win MVP. I do
think that, and this does a disservice to him. To me,
there's too much right now, Like Nikola Yokich is already
one to three the Thunder the best team the league,
and I'll end with this the one year Nicole Jokic
did not win it, like over this span, that's when
the Nuggets were first in the Western Conference, And so
it's I just don't I like to look at each
season kind of in a vacuum, not oh, what happened
prior how many awards does this guy have? Or at
least I try to look at it that way. And
I'm certainly not trying to be like there's no argument
here because we've seen Yokic in the playoffs. But remember
between a beat and Jokic, it used to be, well,
like we don't know if like you could win in
the postseason with Jokic, So this regular season awards should
go to somebody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I think for me, I asked that
because I went into this thinking, like I really need
to almost come in with the default of SGA has it.
What can I point to, like, you know, like I
wanted a rebuttable presumption that SGA had it, and I
needed to find evidence to like take it away like
he had the benefit of the doubt. That's how cause
I had been thinking kind of the opposite all year,
and just as an exercise, I just kind of went
in that way, and Jokic still just for many of
the reasons you mentioned and and you know, gut and
feeling and other stuff like just he just took it away.
And I think it's like he has He's more efficient,
his true shootings higher. The offense with Jokic on is
better than in Denver than Okay sees is with Shae on,
And like the on off stuff tends to favor Jokic.
But that's not really an MVP thing I unless you
really twist it and say, like, well, to this team,
his value is so great because they have nothing behind him.
I don't I'm not super persuaded by that. I just
like to look at how good these teams are with
them on the floor, and I think you can make
the now the Nuggets aren't as good as the Thunder
because of the defense, But offensively, if we're just talking
about like what level does Jokic get the Nuggets too offensively?
What level does Shaye get the Thunder too? Offensively? Jokic
gets his team to a higher offensive level and the
defensive gains I think for Oklahoma City are much more
collective because oftentimes you can make the case that Shay
is the fourth best defender on the floor sometimes the
fifth again not taking away the other thing is just
in addition to the scoring, Jokic just got twenty seven
assist points created per game, Shay is at sixteen. It's
just like, that's that's just another way to frame the
passing stuff that you talked about. I think it's Jokic
is just on a different level as a facilitator for others.
So it just yeah, I mean, there's plenty of catch alls.
I think EPM likes Shay better, like by a tiny amount.
That just illustrates how close it is. I think in
the end, Jokic is still just the guy that causes
the most trouble for a defense and is the hardest
problem to solve for a defense. And if you know that,
in addition to the numbers, just narrowly did it for me.
I think, you know, again, this could go either way.
I will have no problem if Shaye wins it like he's.
Speaker 1: It's just there's the voter fatigue might be re and
it's not. If he wins it, I don't it I
voter fatigue I think will factor in the way that
that's how it's being framed, but it doesn't that doesn't
denigrate him as the MVP candidate. And I'm with you
on the the on off swings are cool to site
and like they can kind of show how much you
can uplift maybe a team that's whether like Okay, what's there.
But if you have a very low baseline and for
the rest of your supporting cast and you're a superstar,
that's just naturally going to be higher. Still with Jokic,
that's what gets interesting, is because if you want to
point out that, so we both mentioned the Denver offense
with Yokic on the floor versus Okay, sees Denver probably
has a better collection of offensive talent around Yokic, at
least in their top When you're looking at Murray, I
don't like, but like then you're starting to.
Speaker 2: Say, well, though I don't know if I would, I'm
not sure about that.
Speaker 1: My point is is that the kind of quality of
the supporting cast matters. And if you look at the
two way quality of the supporting cast, if you want
to say that Shay is a better defender than Yokic,
you're you're correct. He also has a like the infrastructure
there because of the talent around him is so much
better on that end of the floor than it would
be for Jokic, Like offensively, if you're looking at the okay,
Jokic is better on offense and Shay Gilge Alexander's better
on defense. Who has more of the helping hand on
that side of the floor. It's obviously Shay there. So
I'm if you wanted to look at it from the
like kind of, oh, take this player off perspective, like
that's I think worth or who's doing more with less?
That's kind of how I'm I'm looking at it. But
you're right, it is close on I mean, Chet and
Isaiah Hartensteg missing so much of the year, I think
it kind of should factor and okay, like who you're
talking about, Ja Dubin That's basically it for a lot
of the season. So but it's it's so close, and
this is one of them. Trying to think the last
time I thought the MVP race was this close because
we both had Jokic over Embiid that one year pretty comfortably. Hm,
I'm trying to do remember, like off hand, but this
has been one of the close, more closer ones. Maybe
it's the one wasn't Jokic's first MVP didn't feel like
it was. It could have been him, Giannis or Embiid
or has that.
Speaker 2: Been I think it's those three have kind of been
the only serious considerations for a while. It feels like
the last thing I wanted to say about the because
I don't know how much we need to really talk
about defense because either of these guys are defined by it,
and MVPs are almost never like decided on the basis
of defense. It seems like I would agree that Shay
is better at his job than Jokic's, But I think
I've made some version of this argument before, where like
the demands on an impact of a guard defender who
is nowhere near the best at that position on his
team are so much lower than that of a center,
like we always have we over index on centers in
DPOY just because, like we collectively acknowledge, the defense of
a center just matters more than the defense of any
other position. And so Jokic could be a C plus
on defense as a center, and you could argue that
that's more important than someone who's a B plus or
an as as a guard. Like I that's just I
think that's a fair thing to say. So you could
even twist it to say that Jokic actually has like
defensive advantages because of the position he has to play
and how much more important it is. Again, that's like
conversation for me.
Speaker 1: And I think Shay just he's gonna find himself in
going up against tougher just because of the position he plays,
Like at some point there's going to be actions where
he finds himself covering someone specifically who is And there's
also there's a lot of value in forcing turnovers and
knowing when and when you can't do that with Yoki.
So I've seen a lot of people say that he
and I do feel like for a really good portion
of the season and maybe for games that don't matter,
that he hasn't been great Like this is definitely I
don't think he's been as good defensively this year as
maybe the previous two. Like when you're watching some of
like the higher stakes games for them, like those two
Oklahoma City thunder ones, like he had some stretches where
it was just like, I don't understand what people are
talking about there. You just have to remember it's the
full season. But I think that he's I'm not gonna
sit here and say he's parentally underrated on defense, but
I do think there's a level of underappreciation. For forget
the rebounding and ending possessions. We know the value in
that part, just like sometimes the way he's moving or
knowing to be in the right spots, or like when
he is playing in more aggressive coverages. I still don't
think that we fully appre like at least his highs,
they're never He's never has these impressive sustainable peaks, I guess,
I would say, but like there are peaks.
Speaker 2: I think the other thing. I know he keeps saying
last thing, but you keep making me think of stuff.
Even if Shay can often find himself in the position
of like you're stuck on Donovan Mitchell, like because they
hunted you or whatever. They didn't hunt you, but like
that's how it shook out. You got to guard him.
And so so for that reason, like he you know,
kind of plays a higher leverage role than it might seem.
I would argue, like if the opposing team is running
a pick and roll, Yokic is involved in the coverage
of that, and so it's just like he's gonna have
a pretty central position in almost every defensive possession in
a way that Shay really doesn't, because there are stretches
where sha is just on a guy in the corner
and can chill and Jokic in addition to having a
similarly super high usage role on offense, like I think
he's probably in the action more defensively just because that's
just what centers have to do.
Speaker 1: You know, this is the actual final thing on these two.
I don't know if I wish that I was like
a fan of one of these teams, because they make
it seem like it's so like open and shut, like no,
it's obviously sche it's obviously Yokic, and that always there's
things about fandom that can frustrate me. I think that's
one that I kind of appreciate, where I sometimes I
have to remember if they're responding to me, or I
see it come across my timeline, I shouldn't interact with
it because it's clearly coming from like a position of
I'm supporting this guy. But I wish if there's people
who are not like Thunder and Nuggets and they just
think that this is an easy decision, I wish I
felt that way. Yeah, they would just save me so
much time I know.
Speaker 2: The fandom thing is like I I think I remember
when Steph was the unanimous MVP. I think I probably
was so in the bag as a fan that I
would have been like annoyed had he not been unanimous.
It just like never happened before. So I can sympathize
with the like the nuggets or thundercolored glasses. Uh view
of the MVP debate, I get it.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of fandom, since you have Steph five on
your ballot, very quickly, we both have. I have Tatum
at three, honest at four. You have them flip flopped
Yannis at three, Tatam at four. What was like, what
goes into that for you?
Speaker 2: Between Jannis and Tatum? Yeah, not not a lot, Like
it could have gone the other way. Really, this was
just like who's one, Who's two? And then after that
Joannis and Tatum have to be there, and I did
so the fifth spot. I guess if I had to
make a case for Yannis, I guess like he's arguably
more central to the operation, maybe on both ends, but
that's just more of a like the Celtics have more
good players, and yeah I don't. I don't have a
huge he wanted to flip those two not a big
issue to me.
Speaker 1: He's clearly been better Yannis than Tatum per minute, but
like Tatum has played like twenty three hundred minutes or
something destructible. Yeah, once you get to five hundred plus,
I think that that when you look at how good
Tatum is on defense, I will say he was making me.
He's been shooting sub thirty four percent from three since Christmas.
It's a long time to be there. But I think
that speaks to everything else he can do as a playmaker,
drawing fouls and then the health defense. Of course, we
all know he's one of those best guys. But you
have Steph number five, and I will say, I'd like
to kind of play, Oh, someone's got his Warriors goggles on.
I have Steph six.
Speaker 2: So that's just not like, Well, the other thing is
I had him third team last time we did this,
and you had him second. So he's just climbed for
me more than he has for you our second team,
not not third overall. Uh so this one the fifth
spot I thought a lot about, Like most of the
comparisons I did were between him and Donovan Mitchell, just
because like they felt kind of similar and I needed
to now I didn't like MOBILEI I thought about, like
we've thought about, we've probably had Brunson in this spot,
if we had Franz Wagner pretty close to this at
one point.
Speaker 1: Earlier in the year, or for both of us in
the first quarter V So I.
Speaker 2: It came down to me with Steph, it's a lot
of the same arguments that we've made over the year
years where it's just like his impact on the offense.
There the Warriors score like one to eighteen with him
on it's one oh four without him that has been
and that's with Butler offering a massive boost over the
last month or so, So that number really is even
more heavily skewed if you're thinking about the whole year.
Speaker 1: Have been massively boosting the Jimmy Butler edition.
Speaker 2: Probably Yeah, hard to say. It's it's his efficiency. It's
the way that I think still with the exception of
Jokic and Shay, Steph is still Steph's the next guy
that commands like one hunt, maximum defensive attention, like everything
out that happens on the floor, like he's the central
figure in it, whether he has the ball or not.
That's really not true. Of like someone like Mitchell, someone
like Garland, someone like I mean, Brunson probably comes close,
but it's just not the same. So difficulty of his role,
the heater he's been on post trade deadline, which just
he looks like an All NBA first team er his
team is, he's you know, helping his team to that level.
I think the best case against it is like, actually,
Butler has as much to do with this run as
Steph does, but Steph's numbers have just been so much better,
like he's just playing better. I feel the more I
looked into it, because I was hesitant at first, the
more I feel like pretty good about this. There's like,
I don't know, twenty percent of this is homersm and
the rest of it's just genuine objectivity. But I feel
pretty good about it. I don't feel like I needed to,
you know, stretch too hard to get him here.
Speaker 1: I think it's justifiable. I have Evan Mobley, which I
don't know if that will be a common like where
he's gonna I think most if I had to guess,
Donovan Mitchell will finish higher in MVP voting, like of
the Cavaliers than Evan Mobley, and I get it because
when you watch the calves, who are teams planning around
the most offensively, right, it's Donovan Mitchell now mobile. I
don't want to get into too much of his defensive
stuff since he's obviously gonna come up in the DPOY discussion,
But offensively there's been a great deal of improvement there
we've focused on in the past, Like that it's dropped
a little bit, but like his finishing through contact is
a lot better. The three point shot on the year
over thirty six percent on better volume. That's dipped recently,
but like the fact that he's still kind of around
there after going through this sort of slump is huge.
I think that he could be a better playmaker, but
like the quality of the passes and the way that
he's reacting when defenses like collapse onto him, and like
the inclination of defenses to collapse onto him now feels
like that it's higher than it was. So I look
at this and say, Okay, he's probably the Cavs is
third best offensive player. But if there's a chance that
you're one of the three best defensive players in the NBA,
and then you're the most valuable defender, and like third
most valuable offensive player on a team that might just
win seventy games. The impact he's having, I mean, into
a lot of people cancide. Okay, he plays with Jared Allen.
Sure the minutes without Jared Allen has been killing it.
Like defensively, I believe the Cavs are in like the
ninety first percentile of defense efficiency. When he's playing without
Jared Allen, I would have to double check that. It's
probably my DPO wide notes. So he does that. And
then the fact that he just again I don't want
to harp too much on the defense, I'm gonna end
it here, but the fact that he can be so
versatile on defense, but then he's still doing like all
this other regular big man stuff even when he is
playing with Jared Allen, like during those stretches. Just the versatility,
the improvement, the value that I think he's driving offensively
for the Calves to do these things off the ball
because he has grown on the ball, It's just a
really big deal. And I like, I don't know, that's
one of the most fascinating conversations. Who is the MVP
of the Calves? Never mind do they belong in the
top five because I do think there's a real kick.
I think you can make case for Darius Garland, and
we probably did at some point this year.
Speaker 2: No, I definitely have had Garland over Mitchell when we're
doing this exercise for most of the year, and then
like I think I have Mitchell. Well, we're gonna spoil
our second teams, but that even now and then it's
if you're just thinking about offense, Yeah, okay, it's one
of those two, but like we're gonna have spoiler. Mobley's
gonna rank pretty high in dp O Y here, and
that's like, that's a real thing. I would say, I
have no issue with you having mobiley fifth. I think
that's a totally justifiable pick. I think you having him
there is a good I don't know what the word is.
I think outside like the NBA Siico silo, people know
who Evan Mobley is and like recognize he's good and
probably think of him as a good defender. I do
still think generally speaking, we're a little behind on appreciating
like no, no, no, he's actually he's gonna be one
of the best players in the league for the next
ten years. Like he's really at He's not Yannest. He's
not Tatum, He's not at that level, but he's like
he's closer to that than you think.
Speaker 1: Mind almost, I mean that, yeah, right, not fair. This
is like I feel like it's almost if you put
Chopper Kevin Garnett in today's NBA.
Speaker 2: Made pretty pretty similar, I think. Yeah, which was the billing,
which was like he's kind of finally delivered.
Speaker 1: There were so many like the things that were being
said about him, they felt up scene, but they were.
It was sort of like, oh, he's a Kevin Durant.
Honestly that the Koople hybrid was the.
Speaker 2: One that I But he's half Duncan half Garnett, Like, okay, great,
he is like two of the best bigs of all
time just in the same body. Got it.
Speaker 1: I did want to shout out because I think Jannis's case,
if he wanted to make a case for Giannis to win,
it's he's the most important player on offense and defense
for his team. I really think there's only one other
player in the league right now that fits that bill.
Can you guess who it is?
Speaker 2: Jared Jackson?
Speaker 1: Yes, And I would the only stimmin to throw out
here because we're gonna talk about him in a little bit.
Is actually I guess he's gonna You want to go
into our All NBA teams, Yeah, let's do that. So
let's start My first team All NBA is the same
as my MVP ballot Jokic, Jay Tatum, Giannis Mobile second team,
I have Brunton Garland, Jalen Brunton, Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell,
Steph Curry, and Jaron Jackson Junior. I have Jaron Jackson
Junior as an honorable mention with Steph Is and v Grant.
He's in the ninety ninth percentile of self created shot
making efficiency. That is incredible, and he's their most important defender.
So why And I think this has been part because
John Moran's been banged up, and I know that John
Moran is clearly the better passer. But I think you
can make a case that Jared Jacksons provided more overarching
offensive value to them, or at least has been more
important this year.
Speaker 2: I think that's I think given the availability, I think
that's like just the right take at this point. Like
it doesn't mean that like next year of Jaws healthy
and can play all the time, Like maybe that changes,
But if you're just talking about this year, which we are.
That's what these awards are for. I don't think anybody
has been more important on either.
Speaker 1: End than him for the Grizzlies, the Jalen Brunts, it
of it all, I don't I would be shut like
he only needs to play in four more games to
maintain his eligibility, so I don't think the ankle Andrew
will prevent him from doing there. His case seems self
explanatory steps to me. You you laid it out like
in the MVP debate, having both Garland and Mitchell here.
Maybe some people but would quibble at that, but like
I know that, okay. So we look at Mobiley for
the defense and his improvement, and then Donnovan Mitchell just
being like their go to guy and he's been toggling
between a bunch of different things on offense. I just
don't think we appreciate like the gravity of Darius Garland
both on and away from the ball, and he is
their best passer, so like he's been fantastic. My third team,
I've Anthony Edwards, Lebron James. I think he was the
first time I put him on an All NBA team.
He's I think he's like he'll be back in time
to maintain his eligibility.
Speaker 2: He's a close one though.
Speaker 1: He's a close one, but for now and we don't
know for sure that he's gonna be out. He definitely
turned on the Jets defensively, like I don't know, early
midway through January. If he had played like this all year,
he probably would have been in me like the top
of the MVP discussion, like next to Jokich and Shay,
I have Kat still on third team. That case has
gotten a little weaker. I believe I had him at
second team at one point. The two new entrants for
me and I think at least one of these two
should have in retrospect, been on my All NBA team
last time. I have domas the bonus he'll be back.
I know there's no timetable for his return, but like,
he just plays through everything. So he's just he's the
player in the league that I think we overthink the most.
Do I understand that he's limited and tough to build around. Sure,
this is not a playoff award, like if you're just
gonna like hit a bunch of threes or shoot really
well from three pancake guys on screen, set up your teammates,
like get your team running in transition, grabbing, leads the
league in rebounds. I think at this point, super efficient play, finisher,
excellent passer, great rebounder. I just feel like we overthink
him sometimes, like he's in all NBA, especially with all
these injuries like two. And then I have Kay Cunningham
who has just been The improvement specifically from him on
defense has been huge. The way he's driving transition for
the Pistons this year, they increase their frequency on the
break by eight percent with him on the court. That's
the third highest mark among players who've played at least
a thousand minutes. Only Alex Sar and Lebron are ahead
of him. And the only reason that Alex Sar is
like in there is when you have a talent deficit,
as the wizard, you just you get out in transition.
That's what you do. So he's just been incredibly valuable
improved is you know, you still wonder about some of
the finishing, doing a better job of drawing shooting fouls,
but he is I mean again, especially in the current climate.
Was an easy inclusion for this actually might have been
we were talking about how difficult is this exercise? This
might have been the easiest time I had building my
all NBA teams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, well, just because some of the names
that you had to like the Kyries and the Anthony
Davis's like are kind of stripped.
Speaker 1: Off on mine last time. Both of them I think
made it and the tough cuts for me before we
get to yours, or if you have any questions about mine,
I have Pascal Siakam Tyre's Haliburton listed as honorable mentions,
both Pacers, obviously Jaylen Williams from The Thunder and then look,
Kevin Durant has been magnificent, but I just the Sons
are losing the minutes he plays. I know what he's
done defensively for them, but I almost times feel that
we're swayed by the fact that they're working off such
a low defensive baseline that he does anything and it's
not like he has this the most difficult job, Like
when you're looking at who's covering who, it's more of
just like this not even a help guy, but it's
like a big which is which is fine. It's not
like he's their primary rim protector either. I think the
bigger thing for me is just he's doing all of
this offensively and the fact that it doesn't necessarily matter
to the larger context of the team. I think speaks like, Okay,
this is one of the greatest players of all time,
one of the best players in the NBA right now,
but can he drive single handedly the success of others
at the level of some of these other guys.
Speaker 2: The answered to me is no, Yeah, I think that's
right that I found myself because I have Lebron on
a team too, and I was like, well, if Lebron,
why not Durant, Like why why wouldn't both of them
just be on there?
Speaker 1: I mean, the Lakers are losing the minutes that Lebron.
Speaker 2: Plays right famously, that's like one of the big.
Speaker 1: Prodcasting, Like, that's the distinction. There's Okay, the scoring my
be similar. Kevin Durant's better score, maybe he's been the
better defender, but it's just like Lebron's playmaking kind.
Speaker 2: Of just yeah, okay, So let's say all I have
my my MVP ballad is my first team, which is Jokic, Sga, Tatum, Yanness,
and Steph. Our second teams are similar except basically we
flipped Mobiley and Steph, so I have Mitchell, Mobley, Jackson,
Garland and Brunson on my second team, so Mobley falls.
We just swapped those two. Third team, I have Edwards,
Kate Cunningham, Lebron, Jalen Williams and Tyrese Haliburton. Third team
was hard because I don't have Kat on there, and
I feel like that's an oversight. I don't have Let's.
I want to make sure I don't. I don't have Durant,
I don't have Bonus. Those are like the main You
don't You're like I think we over we overthink him,
like I don't think we think hard enough. No, he
he is, I will say, because I did think about
him and did I have him at some point this
year Maybe I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I would hazard absolutely not unlikely.
Speaker 2: He is really the sing and this is probably just
why I'm wrong about him. He is the guy that
like forces the hardest conversations about at what point are
the individual statistics like just too good for us to
ignore and like pass off as not meaningful because the
leading the league and rebounding, he is making threes. He's
not shooting a lot like great scool all the things
you said, it's like that's all true and minutes with
him on the floor too, And yet here I am
just like, I don't think that drives winning. And it's like, okay,
so does he need to average thirty and twent If
he was averaging thirty and twenty and you know, still
shooting forty three percent from three, like, would that be enough?
I don't know. It's a good thought experiment for me.
Speaker 1: I do think if you're approaching it from the perspective
of it's a matter of taste, where if you think
that what Jay dub because of what he does defensively
like that like that. So, but if it's if you're
coming into this saying so Bonus can't make all NBA
because he does drive winning, which I don't think that's
the perspective or vantage point from what you're viewing.
Speaker 2: It's not quite but I'm I'm near that, I feel like,
which is probably not a great place.
Speaker 1: At least yourself aware enough to admit it, then.
Speaker 2: Right, thank you. I am deeply biased, but I admit it.
So I guess that means it's okay, Yeah, it so,
Kat versus Haliburton is tough and Jalen Williams is tough
over I mean Durant, Like you know, if it's it's
just I would just echo what you said about Durant.
I thought that was kind of what I was wrestling
with of like kind of similar to the Bonus. It's like, well,
but what are these numbers? What have they done? Like
what have they call? You know, is he I'm not
saying like he's just out there getting his in either
case for those guys, you know, it's like they don't
it's not like that. It's just look, are we gonna
We're not moving Kate off of here, like Kate I'm
gonna talk more about him. We're not moving edwards, you know.
So it's just we ran out of spots and cuts head.
Speaker 1: The other thing I try, especially with all NBA, I
try to thinket I focus on more of the individual brilliance,
which is Kevin Durant's strongest case, sure, but also like,
look at how out of place he would be on
this list relative to these other teams that are on there,
and if if this is because the Suns have just
tainted us too much, because they're just so fucking depressing. Yeah,
that's at least a little bit on Kevin Durant too, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I think it's not Yeah, it's not his fault.
Speaker 1: People could have him on I know people are gonna
have him on their all ebayems and I'm not. He's
been great. And the fact that I just coming back
like the injury that he did and just his age
and he's still able to do this. You put him
in like a really high functioning ecosystem, He's going to
be dominant and help you drive winning. I just think that, Like,
I just I don't think the defense is where it
was like kind of in the middle of the year
and just Phoenix being that bad with him on the floor.
I just like at least there's been at least Lebron
flipped the switch and so KD might have had that
higher baseline to begin the year, like Lebron like kind
of flipped the switch. And it's you know. The other
thing too, is I hate talking about this stuff, but
everything matters. The leadership element here, like Lebron like being
on the Lakers and he didn't know about the like
maybe some people don't believe that, but he doesn't know
about the Luca Danta trade. Like the way you handle
that turnover. He actually handled it pretty well. You and
I have complaints about the things that Lebron says it does,
and so having that and then dealing with that type
of turnover in the middle of the year and still
figuring it out next to Luca, like that just adaptability.
I think that that's you know, there's value in that.
So I'm and to his secure in my opinion because
I feel the need to continuously justify it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think that's that's that's a
good place to move on. Mostly similar all NBA teams
for us, with a couple exceptions.
Speaker 1: Did you struggle with why is an Anthony Edwards higher?
Because I was, like, he has a second team case
and I think if I had to bounce someone, it
probably would be Garland for Anthony Edwards. But I'm just
when I watch him, I just find myself thinking, like,
I just wish he was like twenty percent better as
a playmaker and like consistently fifty team percent more engaged
on defense. And so it's just I'm calling him one
of like the fifteen most valuable players in the league
this year.
Speaker 2: But I would I would say that I think we
would both agree that like, this isn't what the award is,
but it's like we are starting a playoff series today,
Do you want Anthony Edwards on your team or Darius Garland.
I think, all things being equal, you just pick Edwards
because you know the level he can reach is just
higher because we've kind of seen it. But I don't.
I didn't have that hard a time because I just
think Garland. Just to use the Garland comparison, I'm not
sure who I would be toggling if I were to
move Edwards up. It's just had a better season, like
just because of the playmaking stuff. Because to get back
to the bonus duranta of it all, it feels sometimes
like all the stuff Edwards is doing maybe because of
the the like if he playmaking and like the that
he really does subsist on a pretty heavy diet of
like hard shots, you know, like that that feels different
to me, and I don't I guess I'm not rewarding
that as much as I do someone like Garland that
like is making other guys better and is taking better
like that kind of thing. I don't know if that's fair.
That's just how I looked at it.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to ask you was you were.
I know you were struggling with the Haliburton inclusion, and
that's I think some if people focus on points per game,
then maybe they'll be there. But I think for what
like seventy percent of this season, he's absolutely been an
All NBA player, and I just might be over indexing
on like that first third of the year where it
felt like he was so so.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean in your that counts too, like
those games are equally valuable. I just kind of I guess,
I guess me putting him here is an endorsement of
the idea that he's more. This is more who he
is than he was to begin this season, which is
also because kind of a reverse of last year where
it's like, oh, I think that's who he is when
he's an MVP like top five guy and then is
terrible after the hamstring. I don't know, Can we just
combine his second half this year and first half last
year and put him on the first team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he would be like that. And also
I try really hard to put J dub on my team.
There's just there's too much offensive noise. Like he can
hit some pretty big shots, but some of the efficiency
on like his self created buckets or just we know
the I think when you've put him next to check
or Isaiah Hartenstein in the minutes without Shay, that's where
people overblow the concern with the non shame minutes. I
just I couldn't quite get there because the offense feels
a tick or two like too low to put him
on this list for me right.
Speaker 2: Now, I think his stretch as a center and some
of the rim protection numbers and some of the defensive
disruption numbers are carrying a lot of weight for me
here because I agree offensively he has not been as
good as last year, like that's just it's it's really
not that close from an efficiency standpoint. So I leaned
pretty heavily on like the total package to get him here.
Speaker 1: He and honestly, for me, his total package Again, I
could be over indexing on this. It gets a little
weaker when now like okay, the sample size with Hartenstein
end or hulkroom has expanded, so his defensive role is
not as just ridiculously heavy as it was two or
three months ago.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to unsee what he did as
a center, like I just that's it's hard to get
that out of my head.
Speaker 1: Like the percentage of shots that he's contesting when he's
on the floor, he's dipped where he ranks him the percentile,
but he's still like eighty eight for the end. That's
fucking great.
Speaker 2: And he can guard a point guard if you need
him too. So it's just like I didn't. I couldn't.
I couldn't leave him off.
Speaker 1: Do you want to take us through Defensive Player of
the Year.
Speaker 2: Yes, Uh, this will be relatively easy here. So I've
got MOBILEI one, Jaron Jackson two, didn't really give a
whole lot of thought to anyone besides those two. And
now that Wemby's out of it, and because Chet hasn't
played enough to qualify, like not even close, and then
I have Amen Thompson three. I am very much open
to like seven guys being third there. I just I
think he's a case. You remember how I used to say,
like I only ever see good Gabe Vincent games, and
so I just think Gabe Vincent is great. This is
more the era. I think I only ever see a
great Amen Thompson games. And I've watched a lot of
Rockets and so that leads me to believe that a
lot of his games are great. But just you should
have a big guy third, I think, because I just
argued in the MVP thing and I believe this that
big guys just tend to matter more. Thompson is just
the class of defender that ruins so much stuff in
so many areas on the floor. And I mean that
in the best way that I kind of just I
wanted to put him here because who cares him? Who's third?
Just like he's so predatory and disruptive, and I just
I love watching him play defense, and like I think
you feel it, You feel him on the floor as
an offense in ways that you don't really except for
like five other guys in the league that can guard
wings and stuff. And he's like a decent big guy defensively.
So I just I wanted to honor that by having
him third.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I have Zubats third for me, and I
don't even feel great about it. I thought about Bam,
I thought about Rudy Gobert, I thought about the perimeter
guys I met, Thompson, lou Dort. I just like as
a rim deterrent, like Zubots is in the ninetieth percentile
of RIOM deterrence, and I think that he's more versatile
defensively than some of the like a go bear type
big where like his feet just seem a little bit
quicker and you could put him in slightly more difficult matchups.
The Clippers defense one, it's been incredible, and I think
when you get to the volume of it all, you
can't like reward Chris Dunn or Derek Jones Junior for that.
Zubots plays a shit ton of minutes. And it's not
just that the Clippers defense is good. They're third in
points of that perposition against top ten defenses, and so
like this is someone who's brand of defense is scaling
to some of the most difficult matchups. The Mobile versus Jackson,
with Wenby no longer eligible of it all, it's I
would say it's pretty close, but I think that when
you look at these two, they're not Neither of them
are just okay, like go check that guy for the
entire game when you need to erase them. That's not
what they do, which is part of like why their
job description is so like expansive, and that helps make
their case. But mobiley can actually, I think do that
a little bit more than general I.
Speaker 2: Was gonna say sorry to jump ins like MOBILEI feels
like when you're describing what makes someone like Bam, who's
like historically one of the greatest switch defenders ever, when
you just the qualities you describe in Bam like pretty
closely map onto Mobili in ways they don't with Jackson
for exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: So and when you like dig into the numbers, so
like the percentage of shots that they're contesting when they're
on the floor, Evan Mobley's in the eighty fifth percentile
to Jaron Jackson Junior's fifty eighth. When you look at
RIM deterrence per one hundred possessions, Mobile's in the ninety
second percentile, Jaron Jackson Junior is in the sixty sixth
When you look at RIM points saved per one hundred possessions,
I think they're both in the ninety first percentile. I've
written down so it's just I mean. And then also
when they're playing center, like the Cavs are allowing one
hundred and eight point three points per possessions one hundred
possessions that is in the ninety second percentile. When Jaron
Jackson juniors at center, the Grizzlies are in the eighty
second percent tile of defensive efficiency. I don't think you
can sit here and say in the maybe now that
they have DeAndre on the team, but otherwise, no, you
don't get this here and say like the Grizzlies have
a bunch of weaker defenders when Jared Jackson juniors at
center than Mobley would when he's in Cleveland at center.
So I think there's just there's enough distinction there to
where I believe this is close. I believe there's a
case for Jared Jackson Jr. But when you look at
kind of the body and I know that he even
with Edie there, he doesn't have the quote unquote safety
net that a Jared Allen does, but that he does
then all these other things, and so I think that
his role is more malleable without ever really sacrifice sacrificing potency.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I hate to just turn into like
high test and scouting report guy, but I have very
similar numbers to what you laid out, and it's just
like the numbers are favorable to Mobley that just you know,
whether you're talking as a perimeter defender or as an
interior like a rim protector. I think when you watch Mobiley,
doesn't he seem quicker than Jackson too. I think Jackson
sometimes plays like he's a little longer like he you know,
he'll get the oh he's beat and then he'll pin
it to the board anyway, like that kind of thing.
But I feel like Mobiley his ability to just stay
in front regardless of who he's matched up against foul.
Speaker 1: That was the other thing.
Speaker 2: A big differentiator Jackson has. It's it's not as bad
as it was, but yeah, Jackson does get himself like
on the bench because of too much fouling. But Mobiley
just feels more like he's actually a guard when he's
down in a stance on the perimeter. Who's six' eleven
and it just there's nobody there's SO i don't, know
Maybe BAM's the only other guy that it's just like
that guy's a guard and he's also an ace rim
protector Like jackson's. Great LIKE i don't, again this is
like THE mvp thing we're not taking away from. HIM
i just Think mobile's that.
Speaker 1: Special it's funny that they both do have the same defining.
Weakness well maybe Because Jared Jacks junior is still get
in foul. Trouble they. Don't but it's just AND i
know part of this is their job, description but even
when they're at the, five their team just still can't
like hit the defensive. Glass, yeah it's just like they're
both just sort of in that same. Bucket you want
to take us through what the all defense teams will.
Speaker 2: Be, yeah so again we're not actually that similar. Here
so we Both, Uh i'll just start with. MINE i
guess we both Have mobley And. Jackson OBVIOUSLY i got.
Speaker 1: Hire all defense.
Speaker 2: Team THAT'S i Got zubats as a first, Teamer so
shout out to your your dpoy order along With, Thompson Mobley,
JACKSON i Put Dyson daniels as my as my last first. Teamer,
again probably should be a big, guy but just like the,
defly well.
Speaker 1: It's just, look could you, say like he maybe can't
shape an entire defensive system the same way a big guy.
Can but like exactly, fair they. Don't The hawks don't
have a big who can shape their system and so
Having Dyson daniels just disrupt the. Fun and also WHAT
i will, say the number of just like part of
it feels. RECKLESS i don't know if you ever watched
him in the crunch, time but was where he forces
a turnover on like these game deciding, Possessions, right he does,
it and the fact they could do it is it's. Crazy.
Speaker 2: NO i, mean, LOOK i feel Like i'm almost like
arguing against it BECAUSE i do like If i'm starting
a defense, TOMORROW i might pick SOMEONE i have on second,
team Like draymond Or autobio Or gobert Over. Daniels but
if you're just talking about like what's happened this, season
WHICH i guess is What I'm i'm doing a little,
more his disruption is sort of, undeniable like because he's
as impactful as you can. BE i think at his,
position at that position right like he messes, Up he's
on A thompson who Exceeds thompson as far as like forcing,
turnovers getting, steals deflecting. PASSES i think in as like
a as an on ball well actually as like an
off ball, defender like denying. TOUCHES i don't THINK i
saw anybody make it harder For Jalen brunson to get
the ball this, year or For Steph curry to get
the ball Than daniels, Did SO i guess in that,
sense like you, know a big guy can't do. That
he can't be the one that's like your best player
can't catch the, Ball like he's not capable of doing.
That CAN i you maybe just think of someone want
to ask you a, question and it's more, philosophical like about,
defense if you're going up against a team that is
more heliocentric or has even if you don't want to
call him that has the, okay like there's this one
star and there's a question about the number, two not
that they're, bad.
Speaker 1: But can they actually drive the? Offense does someone Like
Dyson daniels then have a case to be more important
than like a big who's trying to anchor the back line?
Speaker 2: SPECIFICALLY i, think, well so let's just say it's the
thunder because that's kind of what you're just like if
you if you HAVE.
Speaker 1: Sg JUST i, know like McHale bridges can get to
the mid range in towns on his. Drives but just,
yeah you're kind of seeing like their limitations to The
knicks offense Without jalen or even the way they run
it in crunch Time Jalen brunst's uses rates like.
Speaker 2: Eighty, yeah it's. Interesting so in that hypothetically it is, like,
yeah like what's the value of if you have zubots for,
Example like how does zubots affect What Jalen brunson does you,
know and, like would rather have going.
Speaker 1: Up against The knicks as your best defender Diceon daniels
Or i'm Like zuba or Even Rudy gobert at this,
point like one of those.
Speaker 2: Guys that's it's an interesting. QUESTION i don't. KNOW i
think LIKE i think you probably maybe we over rate
like how easy it is for someone Like daniels to stay,
on you, know a singular offensive, player because there are,
screens like he's gonna have to work his ass off
to get over. Screens they're gonna try to get him.
Away and if he is just face guarding that, guy
then the other players get to play four on four
and that's just easier to. SCORE i don't. KNOW i
STILL i think default to just bigs matter more like
blanket statement to a defense than than. Smalls but that's
a that's a good thought experiment BECAUSE i think that
is a case where you might say someone Like, daniels
who can just prevent your best player from touching the,
Ball like maybe that does matter more than a go bear,
level like you, know rim. PROTECTOR i don't. KNOW i
THINK i think what you're helping me do is justify
Why daniels is.
Speaker 1: HERE i THINK i. Have my point is THAT i
don't think you need to look at your first team and,
say like go.
Speaker 2: Bear right, right Because gobert hasn't had like a great
season by his, standard so and either bam not even.
Speaker 1: Close just even when you look at like kind of
the percentage of shots he's contesting while on the. Floor,
yeah AND i like for a lot of those, minutes
it's not, like oh, yeah they they want to use
NOAs reed Or Julius randall is that guy like, No
like part of that is, that you, know With Julius
randall's job does get.
Speaker 2: Harder but, yeah just quickly through the rest of my second.
Team Timani, KAMARA i think is just a menacing five position. Defender,
Uh like.
Speaker 1: The base of a defense with, Him Donovan clingen And
Denny avia moving forward is going to ruin.
Speaker 2: Lives portland is going to get a lot of, stops
like as they, mature with this, course so and Then,
Bam bam And gobert are like partly kind of legacy,
PICKS i, guess but it's like we all, agree like
they're still really.
Speaker 1: Good Like draymond's not a legacy, pick the Well.
Speaker 2: Draymond draymond gets that, too but a lot of the
catch alls really like him still this, Year like he's
way up there IN, dpm he's way up there in
Defensive lebron and Then JADA i talked about him a fair,
amount like the, versatility the moonlighting as a center for several,
weeks and the fact that he can just guard one
through four very. Comfortably is a good back line, guy
which is weird for a. Wing so he was actually
a pretty easy. Inclusion the rest of these guys were
All Maybe kamara was pretty easy as a second team or,
two but the rest of them definitely there's arguments against
who'd you have.
Speaker 1: So a first? TEAM i Have Evan, Mobley Jared, Jackson Junior, Visa.
Zoobots so it was for my top THREE. Dpo WHY
i still Have. Bam you called him a legacy. PICK
i just think he's still really. Good there's some noise
and he's never going to be the best rim, protector
but you talk about not having a ton of like
defensive talent around. Him Jimmy butler wasn't really playing this.
Year hayward High smith missed some. Time Jimai hawkes is
just sort of. Deteriorated you're playing a ton of minutes
With Tyler herro and The heat are still on above average.
DEFENSE i just bam feels, like and this is a
cop app because we're using numbers to justify a lot
of our. PICKS i don't know if ever gonna be
numbers that adequately quantify how good Bam adebayo is on. Defense,
yeah and THEN i Have Lou. Dort this is just
he has the toughest matchup difficulty of anyone on The
thunder every single, night and he is impossible to. Screen
he's probably not as versatile as some of these other,
guys but we talk a lot about like go out
there and it's if it's not shut that person, down
defend him for thirty five minutes a night while just being,
screened and like having to fight around those. Things he
just does it better than perhaps anybody else in the.
League so AND i find myself Maybe i'm over correcting
here BECAUSE i don't necessarily want to say he's, underrated
BUT i just feel like he's underappreciated because of how
good The thunder are and even on. Offense not germane
to this, discussion but what IF i always said there's
value in the volume and like he's hitting his, Threes
so it's just there's just no hesitation from. Him yet
you don't necessarily love, it like his off the dribble,
adventures but this is just a. Player when you look
at the arc of his, career it's just been so
fun to watch AND i, LIKE i still believe that
he is one of the most impactful defenders on the,
game that The thunders defense would look materially different without,
him especially because you've had to deal with so many
injuries on the front.
Speaker 2: Line, yeah he Allows williams and like Even Cason wallace
and Certainly sga to like move down a peg in
the like how tough is my matchup? List which is
that's super valuable to that. DEFENSE i felt bad about
leaving him.
Speaker 1: OFF i Have Dyson daniels on second. TEAM i thought
about putting him Over bam for first, team so that
was really Close Toamani kamara easy. Inclusion i've got back
on fourth On draymond this. YEAR i had him as
one of MY dpoy top threes earlier in the. YEAR
i think he's still been really, good and like the
way he's able to direct the defense while still handling
all this stuff head a head and feet on. Swivels
Also Golden state's defense like for the Year grant sixth
in points a lot per possession against top ten. Offenses
that's like the. Defense and but look at, Like, Okay
Andrew wiggins was not as good this year as he
was last. Year you've been giving minutes to, like look
at where the rotation was at one, point Like Gary payton's,
second the second has not looked the same until recently
or as good as he was until. Recently so it's
not like they've had they were forcing a ton of
turnovers at the beginning of the. Year there was that hot,
start but to be there that shows a ton of
value For. Draymond Rudy gobert even like fifty percent Of
Rudy gobert is still just an elite defender in the
especially during the regular. Season at this point THAT i
Have Amed thompson on second team as.
Speaker 2: Well, YEAH i would just like to point out how
good of a team we could put together if injuries
weren't a, factor because you could Have wemby and like
game Limits, wemby Check. CARUSO i don't know who Else mark's, got, Yeah.
Hartenstein so we just quickly because we're already running. ALONG
i think it's weird that we don't Have. Og tell
me Why og is not on either of our.
Speaker 1: Teams knicks are not a good defensive. Team. Now he's
a great defensive, player, right and the breadth of his
responsibility is kind of insane when you're looking at, this
but the breadth of that responsibility is not translated to
like long standing defensive competence just. Yet and like someone Like,
OKAY i guess you could use, Well Dyson daniels is on,
here and And lanti's had when you're looking through the,
season there's just been periods where their defense has been really.
Good he could be on, here like he's among the
long list of honorable. Mentions BUT i think if you're,
Like i'm gonna like the individual assignments that he's gonna take,
on like those can be, absurd and like the stuff
that he's gonna have to do is kind of like
the quasi bigot. POINTS i don't think he's actually as
good at that stuff as other people. Believe like someone
like a like A bam can do, that A Tamani
kamara can do. That draymond can certainly do that as
the other. One so if you were to like put
him in here OVER i don't, know Like Ahman thompson
or man, like who would be the player that you?
Bump that's the.
Speaker 2: Thing, YEAH i don't. Know that's always the. Thing it's,
like well what about this? Guy, okay who are you kicking?
Off and then it gets it becomes a different. CONVERSATION
i just it struck me that BECAUSE i thought about,
HIM i just couldn't get.
Speaker 1: There there's a couple of he is the reason the
mixed floor has not completely fallen out from under, them
but he's not even been enough against better. Offenses And
i've honestly been just what you're getting from him on,
Offense i've been more impressed with him what you're getting
from him on. Defense so maybe that sort of scus
my thinking a little. Bit, yeah we move on To
rookie of The. YEAR i Have Jalen, Wells Steph, castle
And Donovan klinkan is my top. Three you Have Jalen,
Wells Steph, castle And Zach edy as so it's like,
same basically the. Same and then we have our bigot.
Third The Jalen wells Versus Steph castle, DEBATE i think
is the most fascinating of. This so what determined it for?
Speaker 2: You, YEAH i firmly think, that like this is a.
REVELATION i Think castle has the highest ceiling in this.
CLASS i think he's the most Likely All. STAR i
think he will be the best player in the. Class,
uh but he's just it really has heated, up has
had some good stretches. Lately the full season numbers are
just like he's not an efficient enough shooter or. Scorer
like it's really damaging offensively and it's just an efficiency.
QUESTION i actually think he mostly makes good. DECISIONS i
like his. FEEL i think he's gonna be like a smart.
Passer he is a good, driver he's a good like
his FINISHING i think can be. Great i'm talking about
all these things like that will happen for him compared To,
wells who from the jump has just been a good
starter for a good. Team that's what it comes down.
To like he has tough defensive. Assignments he's a good
enough three point shooter to be honored by, defenses doesn't
make a lot of, mistakes play super, hard is totally
an additive component to his, team which is better Than castle's.
Team castle it's sometimes as a like legitimately negative influence
on the bottom line this personal care because they're not
where The grizzlies are in the, Standings but like that
is the distinction really to. Me So castle will be,
Better he's not. Better he has not been better over
the bulk of. This that's really that's the best CASE
i can, make is that where you come down on.
Speaker 1: It, yeah and you could make the case, That, okay
he does more on, offense so it's harder Than Jalen.
Wells But Jalen wells plays within his role on offense
and is good at. It AND i think no one
in the league has spent more time guarding number one
options Than Jalen wells this. Year so it's just LIKE
i don't view him his all defense, caliber but the
fact that he's a good defender in that role when
going up against. Guys when you look at his he's
listed at six to, seven so it's not like he's too.
Small his frame is just so slight compared to a
lot of those. Guys and he's always, Fight like even
if you watch him guard in the, post it's not
always gonna end, Well like that dude's putting up a
ton of. Fight and the fact that there's been this
equilibrium of good and productive for the entire, year and
it's on a team that fancy like that might just
be a title contender and that doesn't have like he's
there out of, necessity but it's not. Bad like in the,
playoffs it's, Okay like who's gonna? Defend do you want
him Defending Lebron? No probably not in the playoffs Or Luca,
No but like he's just been, Good and SO i
think That i'm with you That Steph cassel clearly has
the higher, ceiling has probably had the higher pinnacles at
like the, moments but like their moments and so stringing them.
Together just when it comes To rookie of The, YEAR
i think some people are probably gonna like not even
have him second because of the inefficiency on, Offense like
even the rim finishing has dipped a little, Bit So
i'm with everything you said. There, Uh edie Versus klingon
was the thing THAT i was And Reesa shay kind
of all sprinkled in here for. Me die has more.
Minutes he's shooting thirty six percent from. THREE i just
Watched Donovan clingon on, defense and this comes with the
caveat THAT i was out On. Donovan like, remember coming
into the, DRAFT i, SAID i don't know why they
ever took. Him, yeah, yeah he is a defensive cap sock.
Force he moves his heat a lot better and like
THAN i thought he was going to as a help,
defender like coming in and like or the amount of
guys he might cover on one, play and he's he's
a real rim deterrent and like he's gonna get shot sent,
back but he's also gonna like dissuade players from ever
going in there and taking looks at the.
Speaker 2: Rim, yeah this WAS I it Was edie Or. CLINGING
i didn't really think. That like riche has kind of
Like castle really heat it, up, like has shot it
much better, lately is starting to REALLY i think he's
gonna be a good starter for a long. TIME i
don't know what beyond, that maybe for, ME i went With.
Edie the minutes are he's got more, minutes but it's
like a one, hundred so it's you, know it's like a
little over one thousand for for, him in a little
like nine forty something for. CLINGING i think the, DIFFERENCE
i think clingon's a better. DEFENDER i think you will
be a better defender like shot, blocker, rebounder that kind of.
THING i Think edie's offensive ceiling is like pretty interesting
because of the, shooting AND i think his offensive, impact
partly because of, that has just been better like. Clinging,
STILL i don't know what clinging is offensively.
Speaker 1: His touch and finishing a round of basket or.
Speaker 2: Not it feels like that's at, best that's gonna be
like a break even thing for, him where he's, like,
OKAY i DON'T i don't, know go. Bear you could
say similar things about just like the guy can't catch the,
ball it just moves. Awkwardly that's kind of kind of similar.
Stuff edie's a little. Different SO i went with the
offensive pluses for him over the defensive pluses for. Clinging
but it's super. Close could have gone either way.
Speaker 1: HERE i have wondered If klingon will be at least
a league average relative to position finisher once The blazers
or if The blazers ever have more space around, him
because he's already a really good, screeners as Is edie
AND i also one of the things that kind of
came into. FOCUS i Know edie's logged more minutes and
CLINGING i think only Just eclipse thirty minutes per, gate
like thirty minutes in a single game for the first. Time,
yeah and he did them. Consecutively When i'm watching, them
it's like clinging stamina at this point of the, year
feels like it might be a little better Than. Zach EDI's.
Speaker 2: INTERESTING i was gonna, SAY i Think edie moves a little,
better like just He's klingon's just so, big like he's
one of those guys like he stands out, like, man
how do you ever get a shot over that? Guy
or how do you ever move him out of rebounding.
POSITION i feel Like edie might be a little like
he's not as just, BULKY i, guess But edie's huge.
TOO i feel Like edie moves a little, better but
it's like who cares because, Defensively clingon doesn't need to
move that well north.
Speaker 1: SOUTH i would, agree but laterally it feels like it's.
Closed i'm again coming out of the, DRAFT i said
they should have just Taken Zach edy is gonna be
way better Than Donovan.
Speaker 2: Klingons, yeah we'll.
Speaker 1: See did you consider anybody else aside from these four
that we've talked? About not? Real, Seriously, NO i will
say when we were talking about The Hardest, awards maybe
it should be all rookie BECAUSE i kind of once
you get past the top three or even top, five
it feels like anyone could be on. Here so my,
all we have the same all rookie, teams, right just
the exact same. One so our all rookie, teams, uh Jayellen,
Wells Steph, Castle Donovan clinkin first team along With zacharysiche
And Zach edy second. Team where it gets very, interesting
we Have Eves Mec Kyle. Philipowski really it's come, on
like the things he can do offensively are things like
any anything you want a big man to, do he can,
do and then stuff that you want a wing to,
do he will also do those, things which is a.
Speaker 2: Pretty big surprise to, Me LIKE i just didn't know
that he had that kind of versatility, offensively some.
Speaker 1: Of the stuff putting the ball on the like the, Shot,
okay we knew that was gonna be, fine but like
the running the, floor like being able to put the
ball on the. Deck we Have Alex sar we have.
Here the numbers are not gonna be kind to, him
and like he kind of hit that he went mid
season where it felt like he hit That apex was
like he's hitting threes and like it looks like he's
connecting better on. Screens all that stuff is faded, basically
and the defensive numbers are not kind to. Him but
he is very. Active he, Contests he's in like the
ninety nine percent tile shots consent percentage of shots contested
at the. BASKET i JUST i, appreciate like the volume
and the level of difficulty of his. Role so it's
sort of like a Miniature Steph castle case on, offense
WHERE i appreciated the alextars responsible for on. Defense and
Then i'm not gonna say he's gonna wind up being,
There but Like Bub, carrington like building, block that dude
is JUST i don't care that he doesn't get to the.
BASKET i just don't.
Speaker 2: Care He's i'm trying to think of the. Comparison, well
guys talking to somebody about. This, oh it's it's kind of,
LIKE i Think carrington can be better than. This but
it was like when The warriors Drafted moody And kaminga
in the same, class where it's like one pretty high,
floor not super high, ceiling That's, moody That's, carrington and
then one like really low, floor very high ceiling that's
The sar cominga part of. IT i Think carrington is
gonna be, Good LIKE i feel pretty confident that he'll
be just the stuff he, does like his comfort on the,
Ball LIKE i do think he needs to develop more
of a side step pump fake into a three instead
of the it's like step, in you, know because he
takes a lot of longer. Two is THAT i don't, love,
uh but good passer like good, Frame, LIKE i think
he's gonna be. Solid sar is just, like let me
ask you About, Sar like the inefficiency is pretty, glaring
like even at like a historic level as a, Center
like how poorly he. Finishes do you think that's because you? Hear,
oh he just needs to get. Stronger do you think
it's that or because Where i'm at is LIKE i
really don't know if he's got like the TUT i
don't like to ever be like a. Great some guys
just never become good, finishers like bis Mack biambo got real,
Strong like he's just doesn't have the finishing ability like
when he's off. Balance so, like where do you fall
on star like his? POTENTIAL i guess as like an efficient.
Speaker 1: SCORER i think there's gonna he's gonna have to reach
a point AND i don't necessarily know if there's someone
on his team that can help him get there where
it's uh, yes, strong being stronger would, help but, like
can you get these sort of just easy lobs to
finish more above the? Rim BECAUSE i think that he
can at least do, That but, like does he have
anyone on his team, that like right now who would
be their best their best passer is Like. CARRINGTON i
mean it's Not Marcus are they have brogged in on that,
Team SO i guess he's, There but like SO i
think it's gonna matter who's the primary playmaker around, Him
AND I i think that there's real you know you're
talking about Up, Charrington like he is real on ball,
poison like his ability to again the, lane get to a,
spot not, panic maintain his. Dribble now he's hitting more
of his jumpers and he was always kind of hitting
his pull up. Twos for this, Year, yeah THE tsar
question is is going to be fascinating? THERE i think
HE i honestly think like he might be more of
just like the pick and pop type big and where
you're getting most of your value from him long term is,
oh he's our defensive anchor and it's working.
Speaker 2: Out which if that's what he, becomes that would be,
Great like that's totally. FINE i think if he's a
spacer of any level and he can be BECAUSE i
think we both agree his defensive ceilings pretty, high LIKE i,
think and it's like pretty. Reachable LIKE i think he's
gonna be a good defensive. Player if he can just
be a, spacer that's that would be awesome BECAUSE i
don't think he's going to be a great. Finisher can he.
Speaker 1: Even do like The Christaps porzingis thing at some point
because we've seen his touch from three at points this.
Season it's where it's, okay you're throwing him the ball
on the. Block he's not really like posting up or
attacking guys and like putting his shoulder and elbows and
it's he's turning and firing like he could probably be
at least that's not outside the realm of possibility for
him right doing.
Speaker 2: Something, yeah, yeah WHAT i DON'T i don't see is
like just like a patient like craftsman like around the,
basket like he just that's not and maybe as he
gets stronger that that really will solve a lot of.
It i'm Just i'm pretty skeptical on his. Finishing but like,
again he's played less than one, season So i'll chill.
Speaker 3: Out.
Speaker 1: Uh Eves mecI what a fine by The pelicans this.
Year dude to be a monster on the offensive glass
he's got like he's gotten a lot both him And
i'll even say, this like the Minutes i've seen From
Carlo makovic got a lot better moving the floor like
Around zion and the fact Like mesi's not a flour
spacer to, him kind of understanding where to be When
zion has the, ball big. DEAL i find myself wishing
though that he would do like all the traditional big
man stuff for the most, part LIKE i don't, know
ten to twenty percent.
Speaker 2: Better, YEAH i mean this is His he's again the
angle on him is like what a what a like
great find for the for The pelicans that needed a
guy at that exact, Position but like his inclusion on
an all rookie team is a pretty good illustration of,
like this actually is not a great rookie, Class like big.
Surprise we've been talking about it since before it was.
Speaker 1: Drafted where do you land? On Kohlil?
Speaker 2: Ware SO i liked him a lot from the preseason
where it's, like oh my, god this guy can you,
know get passes at the top of the, square like
might be able to shoot it. Too that's kind of
WHERE i was, LIKE i, mean Now i've just DECIDED
i was buying stock at that. Point was that at the.
Speaker 1: Time we were all PURCHASING O ryan dunstock because of
what he was.
Speaker 2: Shooting oh, Absolutely it was probably before that actually he
was like A Summer League, like holy, shit, GUY i feel,
like but, yeah similar. TIMEFRAME i still think offensively he
can be a real weapon because of like he can
get The DeAndre jordan lobs that were just, like oh,
god no one's going up to get, That like it's
an impossible play to. Defend he really does need to get,
stronger though you see him get moved pretty, easily and
then defensively he looks like a. Rookie he just you,
know isn't reacting quite quickly. ENOUGH i THINK i, think
like just as a like the raw tools, ARE i
think he might be something LIKE i think he's going
to be better than ME. C i think he's probably
going to be better THAN sarw honestly, so but like
he's not there. YET i just kind of like the
thumbnail sketch of what he could be a little.
Speaker 1: Better, yeah the thumbnail sketch is a great way to phrase,
it BECAUSE i think you look at he's the player
that you, WATCH i mean on, defense you watch him
and you're, like, oh, okay maybe maybe. Not but on
offense it's always sub thirty percent from. Three but you
just think that he's going to space the floor and
it's you, know he's only like he's shooting about league
average at the rim for someone his, size and it's
just well you can kind of see because the way
that he can get up there and like finish above the,
rim that number is gonna come up he's even hit
like some like little short mid. Rangers it's, like and
he has some ball. Skills so you just watch him and, it's,
oh he's going to be. Good the numbers like some
of them might support, it which is why it's like
easy to put him, Here BUT i. DON'T I i
think he's gonna be, good But i'm PROBABLY i wouldn't
be ready to, say, oh he's gonna be better than
h would you, Say Zach? Edi is? That or?
Speaker 2: SO i think he's Like sar and Me, SI i
think he could be better than both of those.
Speaker 1: GUYS i think he can for. SURE i GUESS i
just not. Ready he seems still too much of like
this raw blank. Canvas.
Speaker 2: Right, well there's a scenario where he's just kind of
this guy and it's, like so we got a like
A JaVale McGee situation basically where it's like he's gonna
have a, career but he's not gonna be like a
difference making starter outside of maybe a year or. Two
that's possible. Too, oh most improved, man we can have
the conversation about what this award. Means i'll just lay
this out. Here so you've Got Trey. Murphy the third
WHO i already am annoyed THAT i didn't include on
my Ballot Evan, Mobley Kid. CUNNINGHAM i Have, Cunningham, Mobley Christian.
Brown do you should SHOULD? I BECAUSE i feel LIKE
i know you And mord have talked about, this And
i've definitely seen the just general discussion on like should should,
this Should kate even be a consideration for this? Award
and should second your players be a? Consideration my quick
two cents ARE i think because this award does not
have like flat criteria or exclusion for certain types of,
PLAYERS i tend to look at like how big is
the improvement and how consequential is? It and so inherently
that makes me skew more towards players that like elevate
themselves from in this case very good to like great
as an overused, term but to Use Kid's cunningham never
been An All, star is gonna make an is gonna
skip right past that step and Be All star And
ALL nba this year and is now like pretty viably the,
cornerstone singular most important player on a team that could
finish fourth in The. East like, that that level of
improvement is to me more consequential than he's not included.
Here but someone Like Norm powell who just has a
scoring boost gets, better but it's like all, right or
someone that goes from like out of the league basically
to good rotation. Player Ty jerome is the example of.
Speaker 1: THAT I i just view the.
Speaker 2: Like the aid to the location of POINT a and
POINT b In cunningham's leap means more to me than
it would at a lower. Level so that's like my nutshell.
Case AND i if that's not what you think this award,
is THEN i have no issue With kade just not
being on someone's.
Speaker 1: BALLOT i tend to gravitate towards the level of difficulty
on the leap and so a lot of the, times
AND i think that then does dovetail with your focus
on the consequence of that, leap where It's, okay What
Ti jerome as an, example like the improvement is, Obvious
it made The cavaliers, deeper makes his free agency super,
Interesting like what type he was working off such a
low baseline that the player he came. Into, okay the
leap itself is, massive but how much of an impact
is that having on The. Cavaliers, no to, me it
matters more That Evan mobley taking and making more, threes
finishing through, contact making better reads as a. Passer that
fucking matters. More and it's a harder leap to make
because he went in my, eyes and you can, disagree
which is also. Fair in my, eyes he went from
Fringe All star to AN mp. Candidate, yeah that Is
that's an Incredible it's like asking a team like going
from a fifty five win team to a sixty five
win team versus going from a twenty five win team
to a forty win.
Speaker 2: Team that's exactly HOW i view. It it's like that
let that's just. Harder that's it's. Harder like a lot
of a lot of players could go from zero to.
Ty jerome or certainly more than could go from Where
cad And mobiley were last year to where they are this.
Speaker 1: Year that's EXACTLY i think of. IT i think where
consequence and demonstration gets very. Interesting is a case Like Trey,
murphy who can he has missed sixteen, games SO i
have him. Here we did note this last time we did,
THIS i, Said i'm just monitoring. Him he hasn't played
enough just, yet but if he's still eligible next Time
i'm Watching Trey, murphy and the efficiency isn't always going
to line up with. This you are watching just a
visibly different. Player like the stuff he's able to do
on the ball right, now the things he the reads
he's been able to make as a, Passer AND i
think that that leap is pretty, big even if the
like the scoring leap, itself like just going above twenty
points per, Game but if you're gonna have someone who
can be, like, oh that's our Third, like let's JUST
i might even be selling them. Short oh that's our
third ball handler, here our third best offensive. Player, uh
that's a huge freaking deal when you look at the
stuff that he's able to do away from the, ball the,
gravity the level of difficulty that he can do on
those three, pointers the fact that he's been able to
make this when The pelicans are basically at one point
injuries made them dogshit and now they're trying to be
dog shit on. Purpose so, yeah The zion he's gotten.
Better they're winning The zion. Minutes But Trey murphy is,
like this could change the trajectory of The. Pelicans it
might even change who is the most important player in
The pelicans. Building right, now the eventual answer might be
this year's first round. Pick as of right, now you
kind of need to default To Zion, williamson but it
might just Be Trey. Murphy so that's WHY i have him,
here because that's this was already a good, player he
was valued as such in his, extension and he's now
made this jump where it's, okay this might be a fringe,
star this could be like an all star time. Player
so you Have kate and mobiley ahead of. HIM i
Have mobile second And kate, Third so it's like it's very.
SIMILAR i went With. Kate is it's interesting that you
Pick kay to win. IT i do feel like in that,
Regard i'm assuming like the stuff he's doing on defense
is driving a lot of.
Speaker 2: That it's it's some of. That it really, is LIKE
i just, think like getting to CAUSE i maybe this
is more personal opinion than like collective. OPINION i don't.
KNOW i feel LIKE i was pretty in line with
what most people thought about him prior to this, year
which is that LIKE i don't even know if he's
actually LIKE i don't know that he should be a number,
One Like i'm Not i'm not convinced of that coming
into this, year like some actually like things are there
are still room for him to, Improve like he needs
to be a better finisher at the, rim like he
needs the just there's like little things that can still tick.
Up but like he had all that plus defensive, questions
plus like when's the shot gonna? Fall like plus is
like how can you really run everything through? Him LIKE
i didn't know? That and now it's like, yeah not only,
that but like you put a decent defense around him
and like a couple of shooters in it's like the
pistons are again they could finish fourth like. That that's
like that's so to distinguish it From Mobili and maybe
that's not fair Because mobile's not asked to do What cad,
Is BUT i don't think there's a realistic scenario where like,
Offensively so to answer your, question the defense helps a,
little but it really is just kde like removing DOUBTS
i had about like is he is he the? Guy
like is he someone that can be the central offensive
figure on a very good? Team and that's like that's
kind of you, know that's not final boss, level like
can you win a title as that guy is? Final
but it's like that's a big step in that progression to,
me and and SO i not so much the, DEFENSE
i guess to answer the, QUESTION i, MEAN.
Speaker 1: I think the defense has been like a huge part
of it for. Me AND i think you could look
like the counting if you went by the counting stats
like that would favor your, pick like to like just
having the mobile Versus kid just to WHERE i. THINK
i GUESS i was higher ON cade to me than
consensus coming into the so that could be doing. It
you Have Christian brown who is also him And Ti
jerome are on MY i don't know. Much Warren powell
would have maybe won this for, me but he's no
longer eligible for the, award so Uh. Brown what's interesting
is he's playing so much better Without Nikole jochic on
the floor this. YEAR i still feel there's been, improvement
BUT i just still feel Like i'm watching too much
of the same player a lot of the, time even
when he's been saddled with a little bit more ball. Handling,
yeah Maybe i'm just not need to come. Around LIKE i,
said he's listed at like along With Ti jerome is
like it's probably my top five or six for.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah this is this is like a lot of.
OTHERS i, MEAN i HAD i had thought About daniels.
HERE i thought about Ty jerome pretty hard. HERE i
don't know.
Speaker 1: If either Way daniels is interesting, too because So Ti
jerome has shown things just because we didn't see any
Of Tie. Jerome, DANIELS i feel like has done basically
everything that he did just in extended playing. Time and
that's what, like it's how do you? Wait just an
increase in opportunity with improvement to where rather than a
functional expansion of his skill.
Speaker 2: Sets, yeah that's probably THE i, mean, really that's the
argument Against. BROWN i, think LIKE i for the, RECORD
i really didn't think That Hard murphy is SOMEONE i
THINK i forget. WHY i must have just looked at
the games and DECIDED i don't need to consider him
because he would be in the mix With cunningham And
mobiley for me after those, Guys, YEAH i went With
brown just like he doubled his scoring, Average like he
just is more efficient on higher. Volume he's like his
two point shooting his. Skyrocketed he made less than half
his twos last. Year he's at like sixty three percent
this year on twos AND i think like you. Could
it would have been easier for me to brush that
off if the like how good is he with and
Without jokic had been like this dramatic. Thing it's, like,
Well yokic is just hand feeding him. Layups, Basically it's, like,
yeah he, is but he's also like pretty good Without,
jokic so that that counts as something to. Me, again
THOUGH i wouldn't if you had a strong argument for
Like Daniel's Jerome Franz, wagner if we could consider him
like something like, THAT i. WOULD i would probably listen pretty.
Speaker 1: HARD i will SAY i was if you need do
you need me to make a strong case again For Julian.
Champenney the shooting has fallen, off which is kind of
what like That maybe IT'S i, guess BUT i could
still make The Julian champenny case LIKE i did last.
Speaker 2: TIME i know it would come from the, heart and
that's the important.
Speaker 1: Thing this one's. Mine Six man of The. Year this
WAS i Thought Peyton pritchard was going to run away with.
This for, ME i Have DeAndre hunter at, One Malik
beasley at. Two he has started fourteen games this, year
so still. Eligible and Then. Peyton pritchard is still three for,
Me Like, DEANGE i think what's doing a lot of
heavy lifting For DeAndre hunting is not just that he's
done it now for two, teams but like he's had
to scale his role to a different team and he's
become mega important and mid season he goes to The
calves and they're just slaughtering people when he's playing at
the four next To. Mobley SO i appreciate what he's
done as a. Score as a, Defender Malik beasley's been
a breath of fresh air For detroit's, offense and this
is another. Year by the, WAY i don't think the
results are always, good but he's in a like he's
on a defense now that like The bucks had noise
there last, year his role was. Outsized now you've kind
of put him in a more role that he would
be suited. For but the, effort the engagement from him
these past two seasons on, DEFENSE i wanted to shout
him out. For and Then pritchard's case is Just pritcher's,
Case like he's not shooting ninety percent from three like he,
was you, know for the first half of the, year
but he's still killing.
Speaker 2: It, yeah just forty two percent on ten attempts per thirty.
Six like he that's, all that's.
Speaker 1: All.
Speaker 2: Yeah pritchard for me was just it wasn't easy BECAUSE
i do think Like, Hunter hunter has just been in
two different spots like, indispensable like highly valuable at a
sup at a highly valuable, position AND i would THINK
i would, say if if part of your six man
calculus is could, slash should this guy close? Games Then
hunter probably is the pick because Like pritchard's just not you,
know on most, nights gonna be someone that closes For. Boston,
now if you were on a team not as good As,
boston would that be different? Probably But hunters on The,
calves and The calves are better than The celtics this,
season so you know that's another point In hunter's. Favor
pretcher just feels like the quintessential six man to me,
though who just comes in ups the, tempo fires, threes
like disrupts. Defensively it's just kind of like the scrappiness
aspect of a six man THAT i, enjoy like the tempo.
Changer do you know.
Speaker 1: What was tough when we picked him because WE i
think this is the third consecutive time you've had, him
so you've been. Consistent WHAT i struggled with the first
two times IS i always want to value the bench
player THAT i think could be a closing lineup staple.
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah That's, hunter.
Speaker 1: Right and it's like It's beasley fits That bill. More
but that's not necessarily in the spirit of the award
because a sixth man if in, THEORY i know this
isn't how it works necessarily in TODAY'S, nba but, like
your starting lineup is supposed to be your best lineup
and that's what you almost ride her die. With we
know things about matchups or how people like to make
it easier to, stagger so but, LIKE i still that's
still in the back of my mind where it's like
that was kind of one of the strongest case For
Manual quickly during his mixt, Days, like, yeah he's coming
off the, bench but look at what he does when
he fills in as a starter or as a closing unit.
Member that's.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah oh, MAN i remember that that DISCUSSION i
have read. Third it's just like he's another guy that's
like he just probably is one of their five best
players and he should start and close sometimes and again
you're going to cite The Julius. Randall they're undefeated in
for the last five.
Speaker 1: Years to be, fair, though if you had your, druthers
Nos reed wouldn't even be eligible for this.
Speaker 2: Award that's. True, yeah let's see what. Else, Yeah, BEASLEY
i have no problem With. Beasley i'm trying to think
of anybody ELSE i would have thrown in.
Speaker 1: There he's dropped down a little, bit but like as
an honorable, MENTION i still think UH, A Niki Alexander
walker for sure would deserve an honorable mention.
Speaker 2: THERE i, mean Even Ty. Jerome we've talked plenty about,
him but he's been phenomenal off the.
Speaker 1: Bench Kros vert, Too let's just keep Naming calves someone
from The.
Speaker 2: Grizzlies like four guys off of The grizzlies bench would be.
GOOD i think maybe like If houston had who to
be On, houston if The.
Speaker 1: Thompson was in my top three Last, yeah it's just.
Speaker 2: They just have had injuries to where enough guys have
become and Like easton just hasn't played, enough but he
would have been someone interesting to think.
Speaker 1: About we're probably forgetting someone major. Here i'm, sure BUT
i will, say AND i actually think that he should
probably be, starting but Like deuce McBride with someone just
another name THAT i at least looked, at but that's
not really a. Surprise take us, through, please Coach coach
of the.
Speaker 2: Year you AND i both Have Kenny atkinson at, one
and then we have in your CASE. Jb bickerstaff, two
who is Not Chauncey. Billups just in case anyone's confused
by about who coaches The, Pistons Mark dagnall. THREE i
Just Flippedagnalon. BICKERSTAFF i Have atkinson, One dagnall, Two vickerstaff
three could have. Gone so let's start at the, top,
like did you entertain any SERIOUS i, mean we've thought about,
this but like it Was atkinson pretty comfortably.
Speaker 1: Right so the argument, is if you don't want to
just focus on looking at how many games they're about to.
Win is that IF i went into it this time,
saying what would my case Against atkins? Be ATKINSON b
AND i think that you could argue The Detroit pistons
contending for fourth in The east is more surprising than
The cavs contending for first based off the talent. There
but when you watch them on, offense they are a different.
Team like he's figured out ways to Unlock Evan. Mobley
the staggering, patterns the lineup patterns have just been. Better
the way that they can use A Max, druce the
way that they've Used Ty. JEROME i just think that
he has had even if you don't think he's necessarily
responsible for what they've been able to do with some
of their best defensive. Lineups even The Donovan mitchell toggling
between two, existences it feels like The kavs off is.
Different there's there's more variability there in a good. Way
there's principles that you didn't necessarily see them maintain UNDER.
Jb bickerstaff the entire time he was, there except when
they were he, honest Jab bickerscheft did his best offensive
work In, CLEVELAND i will maintain when they were at
their most. Injured so to take it's almost kind of
the same thing with most improved. Player to take a
team that was already excellent and then just make them a,
Juggernaut like that, matters.
Speaker 2: RIGHT i think the related piece of that, argument because
that is the sort of the crux of my, thinking is, that, like,
well if you're arguing For bickerstaff Over, Atkinson you'd, say
look at the talent on This cavs, roster like how
hard is the? Job? Really like they were gonna win
fifty something games with like you, know like a notepad
in the head coach's, Chair like so would they just
would have figured it. Out but at some, POINT i
do think you deserve credit, for like, one deploying that
talent in the best, way because it's like it's that's
like the final step in like going from good to,
great and The cavs are just historically like a great
regular season team so. Far the other THING i, think,
too is at some point you also need to be
credited for like Ty jerome is a thing, Now DeAndre
hunter changed team's midstream still, Awesome like, yeo, okay maybe
that's Just jerome And. Hunter, Okay Well mobley has played very,
Differently like maybe that's Just. Mobley but you keep going
down the. List enough of the with enough of those
bullet points.
Speaker 1: Hurt when he was, There.
Speaker 2: Marris leburt was as good as he's ever. Played, Okay
well he just made. Threes, Okay well let's. Continue Like Darius,
garland he's back looks. Comfortable whatever strife there was between
him And Donovan mitchell and the rest of the team.
Squashed Jared allen never an issue from last. Year remember
like this team was was we had them blown up
like at the end of last, season right. Right you
go down enough bullet points that you could credit to someone,
else and, eventually when there are enough of, them you
have to just, Acknowledge LIKE i think the guy pushing
the buttons is pretty good at this like, that AND
i think that's maybe just the Roundabout. Atkins in CASE
i would MAKE i.
Speaker 1: Would, Say Jamie, bickerstaff if you put him, ONE i
won't fight against. YOU i think it has to be
built around The Detroit pistons have no business being a
top ten defensive team with their personnel that's like his strongest.
Kid like the stuff he is doing is. GREAT a
lot of THAT i feel like is they, understood, like, oh,
shooting look at what this can. Do but like the
improvement That jalen durn has made kind of over the
past month or, so and the way That Kay cunningham
himself is. DEFENDED i Mentioned Elie beasley before, so and
but the other thing that he's, doing Which atkinson hasn't
really had to. Do he's juggling development Like Ron holland
is still getting reps on a team that is, Good
and Like jalen durn how many teams if they were
as good as The pistons are or were like a
month or two ago When Jalen durtan maybe wasn't at his,
best might have gone away from. That so like kind
of figuring it, out while also like not it's not
like they did anything with, him and they Insert Dennis
shruder midstream the way he was using j And Ivy
woor he was. Injured like So Jamie bickerstaff has LIKE
i don't even know IF i had him in my
top three last, time but he. HAS i actually think
he has a really strong case for number.
Speaker 2: ONE i think so, Too and you could the simplest
version is, like what do they win fourteen games last?
Year the roster's not that, Different like it really is.
NOT i mean a couple of key, guys but like
they're gonna win thirty more than, That like no. PROBLEM
i JUST i that's the leap is pretty. Substantial and,
honestly if you wanted to track From, BICKERSTAFF i. DON'T
i think he could AND i could easily win. This
you would point to like this team was like grossly
like mismanaged and poorly coached last, year so they actually
weren't that. Bad they probably should have won thirty games or.
Something but like that would just be your if you
really don't Want bickerstaff to, win that's the argument you.
Speaker 1: Make i'm not making that. ARGUMENT i. Did we both
Have dagnall in the top. THREE i just think he's
an excellent. Coach the thunder of dealt with. Injuries he
throws out creative. Lineups people made fun of him for
the perma sub thing With Dylan, jones but like the
like constantly thinking and gaming the system that. WAY i
also think that he has been like he's pulled some
night like Even alex cruzom is his. Time the fact
that he was working in Aj mitchell at the beginning
of the year BEFORE Aj mitchell got. Injured the coach
there's always like you could make a case for a
ton of coaches in almost any given. YEAR i struggled
WITH Jj. REDDICK i have him listed in my honorable
mentions BECAUSE i like The. LAKERS i don't want to
SAY i don't believe in. Them but it's just like
they dealt with some injuries and the defense was, okay
it never. Plummeted now they're getting like some better defensive
talent out while also Exchanging Max christy And Anthony, davis
and the defense gets. Better, grant they are second in
point slot per possession against top ten. TEAMS i watched,
them and at this Point i'm still concerned about the
big meta, rotation AND i think that their model was,
like there's no way this holds up against like good
teams in the, playoffs, right but as like just circle,
back this is what it is against top ten. Offenses
and you could say so and so miss games like all,
right The lakers didn't have J, vanderbilt who's still just
all over the place, DEFENSIVELY i did not have The
lakers in contention for number two in The Western, conference
and so he like maybe because the thunder are they're historically,
good but we probably could have forecasted. That like that
is his case Over Mark. Dagnall for, me, YES.
Speaker 2: I would add to like degree of difficulty, matters and
like think of just the scrutiny is one like the
size of the, market the expectations Coaching lebron is just
NOT i, mean in many ways it's, easy but in
many ways it's also. Hard and that's before considering like
the browny side of, It like just think of the
other stuff that he's had to navigate this like seismic
mid season trade that really does fundamentally change like not
just how you, play but like the literal hierarchy of
your team and organization when you Bring luca, In, like
there's been a lot of stuff to deal with that
has very little to do with. Basketball and then like
and so he's navigated that incredibly well the basketball side of,
It Like i'm never gonna get over for all the
clips of how they Guarded jokic in ways that like
nobody's really done. Before like it's like clever doubles off the,
ball like not like forcing him to catch it far
away from the, basket like doing all the stuff you should,
do but just like more LIKE i don't, know there's
no blueprint for Stopping, jokic but The lakers like kind
of put something out there THAT i think a lot
of teams are gonna emulate come playoff. Time so just like,
TACTICALLY i think he's pretty clearly like very very like high.
End so, YEAH I i it was hard to leave him.
Off maybe he deserves to be on. It maybe The
lakers will continue to like With lebron out you, know
they've had some struggles, now but like maybe they'll close
on a like on a big run and we'll just
have to ultimately put him in the top.
Speaker 1: Three, UH i wanted to. QUIT i meant. TO i
have this in my notes for it was An atkinson
And bickerstaff. Note The calves are first in point score
per possession out of timeouts and The pistons are. Third
like that's, like that's another feather IN. Jb bickerstaff. Cap
uh the any other coaches that you, THOUGHT i have
one THAT i just we Had Taylor jenkins on this
list for a. While The grizzlies have been kind of
like all over the place. LATELY i don't think this
was the. Plan Like Jordi fernandez deserves a shit ton
of credit for what's going on In brooklyn because even
they've given him less, talent and they did so earlier
than some other teams would, have and he has just
outperformed at every. Turn like the offense was gangbusters to
start the year in the half court running Through Dennis.
Shooter you get rid Of Dennis, shooter you get rid
Of Ben. Simmons eventually he's dorn If Finny smith's eventually. Leaves,
okay you're not good on offense. Anymore this team's gonna
fight its ass off defensively every single. NIGHT i, again
they're not good, enough AND i don't know that he
could Be coach of The, year but The nets are
actively trying to feel the team that won't be, competitive
and he has consistently just defied that at every single.
TURN i.
Speaker 2: AGREE i think my thought WHENEVER i Watch brooklyn is,
like why is this team so hard to play? Against
like they just have no business being used said, Competitive
like they should be easy to play, Against like they
have all these shortcomings in the playmaking. Department they're usually
small and or unskilled up, front like these wings and
guards are just like outside Of Cam, johnson it's, like
who is this person that's playing thirty minutes? Tonight and
it's they have no business being difficult to play and
they seem to always be hard to play, against at
least you, know for three quarters or, Whatever like they
they never you, know they're kind of weirdly. Relentless it's
just you have to credit that to the, coach because,
like how easy would it be for, this like almost
everyone on this team to be like why why are?
We why are we?
Speaker 1: Trying?
Speaker 2: So, yeah credit to him for.
Speaker 1: That anybody like deep, CUTS i still Think Tyron los
a good. Coach Joe mizuola feels a little underappreciated it
at this, alone.
Speaker 2: Like it just the usual. SUSPECTS i don't know what
you do with Kerr, uh probably don't put him on
the short. List But Eric spolt Pretending Eric bolstro is
not a great, coach like all the shit that In
miami to do.
Speaker 1: A lot of complaints among like heat media and analyst
podcasters that he just doesn't adjust. Enough AND i guess
Maybe i'm Too Eric spoelstra. Pilled but what do you
want him to, like who do you want him to adjust?
Speaker 2: With Exact, yeah tell me the the lineup switch that's
going to solve the issues there.
Speaker 1: NOW i wish For rockets offense was a little bit more,
inventive but like Imy, udoka like putting together this defense
with your base rim protector or back line guy and
Opera shangun is just like he's not the. Word i'm
not saying that he sucks, defensively but figuring out the
right way to use him like that matters a great.
Deal AND i Think Jamal mosley is someone that we've
talked about in past editions where it's still credit for
the defense and just like how hard they, play but
it's like the offense is the emphasis ON i mean
the lack of emphasis on shooting threes and playing, Fast
like there's some offensive stuff that's like this feels like
a systemic choice and that's got to go to, him
and that's not. GREAT i also Have Rick carlile on
my long, list BUT i sometimes think that because when
you Read Kaitlin cooper and she's pointing out like all
these things that it makes me higher On rick CARL
i was, Like, wow he's trying a bunch of different.
Speaker 2: Shit, NO i think he belongs with like The kerr
And malones And, Spoulsters like he's he's a really GOOD nba,
coach just that you, know this ain't the year for.
Speaker 1: Him we do not Do Clutch player of The year
until the end of the, season so we end with
everyone's favorite. Award Grant executive of the. Year you want
to take us through.
Speaker 2: It, Yeah Sam presty, one WE'VE i don't know if
we've had him. First he's been in the running all.
Speaker 1: Year it's just it was we both had him first
last time at the.
Speaker 2: Middle, okay so THE i, think, YEAH i Guess mitchell
probably would have been hurt at that. Point but like
The mitchell pick insane h The caruso, trade great, trade
the machinations to be able to bring On hartenstein awesome like.
Speaker 1: That he works For wiggans And. JOE i mean The
wiggans deal especially looks like highway.
Speaker 2: Robbery they just he doesn't miss, basically like other Than
Gordon hayward and that's not this. Year so so no
misses this. Year uh number.
Speaker 1: Ten we Were we didn't point this out when we
were regating the trade. Deadline even That Gordon hayward trade
served the purpose of setting them up to have the
cap space to go Get i'd say hard that's.
Speaker 2: True, Yeah Rob plink is at two for both of.
Us that feels like a surprise.
Speaker 1: Because he kept a. Secret that's pretty much.
Speaker 2: What because he someone came to him and he said,
okay he, said, OKAY i just don't what to do with,
Him like how he got the?
Speaker 1: Guy DID Jj reddick? Higher? Sure, yeah, okay BUT i don't.
KNOW i don't beyond, that it's sort of just like
who is? Nothing they no changes they made personnel, wise
aside From luca over the off. Season they didn't make
a ton of changes to begin, with but to his.
Crew and also what did was he helped along by
their doctors who. Failed the other.
Speaker 2: THING i was, like is he here if The Mark
williams trade goes, through because that's a bad trade that
you shouldn't. Make, LIKE i don't, know he's just charmed,
man he's Got he's got a.
Speaker 1: You could say Charmed and, like by the, WAY i
Had Nico harrison third at the, head where do you
have him? Now Worth here's the. Thing he didn't even
have to give up the second first round pick to Get,
Luca and so it's, Okay Nico harrison And Patrick dumont
might be out of their fucking. Minds but he used
that to his advantage and was, like, well we can't give.
You i'm assuming they at least asked for, It like
there had to be some level of negotiation. There so
you just have to and, look they didn't let it
get out until like the fact That lebron And clutch
And Anthony davis himself Also clutch seemed legitimately. Surprised you
can get into whether that's, right but, like that's like
a and here's the other. Thing could you have been
compelled to go To lebron? First is? It like? It
it was such an easy decision for, Us but when
you're dealing with those personal relationships and knowing that everyone
thinks That lebron is this SHADOW, gm this kind of
proves that he's. Not and it like to not inform
your best player and then to it kind of tells
your best. Player lebron shouldn't have a problem with this
BECAUSE i think this improves his chances as he enters his.
Twilight but, like he didn't Consult. Lebron, yes it was
an easy, move but the dynamics don't always work that.
Way So i'm just trying to he trained For luca
without without giving up the farm and telling. ANYONE i
find that to be the most sterical, thing that THE
nba is such a gossip factory that it's this big
deal that they asked The lakers to keep it. Quiet
And genie bust like and we, did.
Speaker 2: Can?
Speaker 1: YOU i don't.
Speaker 2: KNOW i THINK i would want the, audio but the
transcript would be fine BECAUSE i think it was an
in person conversation the. WAY i don't. Know maybe maybe
it was a phone call Where luca's being offered And
dallas asked for both of those first and press the
and And polinka, goes, NOW i don't. THINK i don't
think we can do, that like the Gall to like to,
say like we're gonna need to take that pick off
the table or no, dice like there must he either
is like the greatest game ambler that's ever, lived or
like SOMEHOW i just can, you LIKE i Can't that
conversation like will never make sense in my brain where
it's like they're negotiating and he Gets dallas to still
agree without that second first in the, past LIKE i
just want to know what that conversation, Was like how
did that possibly?
Speaker 1: Happen and if you wanted to leave him off this
list because you think it was that mindless of a,
DECISION i guess it's, fine but you would have to
then believe or prove that he had nothing to do with,
it like they just came this was the, package and he, said.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, yeah WHICH i, MEAN.
Speaker 1: I guess In maverick's, land we can't roll that. Out
we cannot roll that.
Speaker 2: Out our third picks are. Different you could go this with,
this this, choice or several. Others probably HERE i Have Mike,
dunlevy who was, like and you have A Trajan langdon
for The. PISTONS i, think LIKE i had Done levy
high after the offseason and the twelve and three starts,
like look at all these guys he, signed what what?
Genius Kyle, Anderson Buddy healed and then like basically none
of those guys matter anymore and or are. Gone and
then he felt fell way off and now he's back
because he made The Jimmy butler trade and the guy
they drafted in the, Fifties Quenton, post is like actually an,
impactful like rotation. Player so it's been a it's been
a real roller coaster of a season for For Mike
dunlevy And executive of The year is What i'm trying to.
Say what make the trades In langdon, case because it's pretty,
Strong uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah what DO i have to look at The, Pistons but,
look there were some quite. LIKE i still don't think
they got good runway out of The Tim hardwa junior,
trade especially with in my notes by the, way it
says like the only THING i really didn't like is
The Tim hardway junior trade because Now Quentin grimes as a,
board we didn't mention him AN. Mp but even what
dating back to what he was doing At, dallas he's
definitely on like the long list of those. Players Tim
Harroway junior's worked out for. Them The Malik beasley signing
has been great for. THEM i think that he got
creative in ways. TOO i don't know If Ron hollin's
gonna end up being the right. Pick he is one
of THE i have the least like. That dude fucking plays,
Hard YEAH i. HAVE i don't know Why i'm dropping
so many f bombs in this, podcast But I'M i
still don't necessarily understand what he's gonna, Be so that
might be a pick worth. Relitigating but WHAT i really
look at by the way people Panned Kate cunningham's not
a no, Brainer max. Guy that's, like that's a stance
he could have held Because Kate cunningham isn't his, dude
so like you deserve credit for, negotiating like Giving Kate
cunningham the, money and look at what he's. Done THE
jmi bickerstaff higher works. OUT i think he ended up
like they got really creative this season on the trade
market Where Dennis shooter is still not the most efficient
version of himself In. DETROIT i went through this with
more the other. Day they've found a way to Give
Kate cunningham more in game breaks on offense because Of Dennis.
Shooter and now you, have in the wake Of jeknivey's,
injury someone who has helped you during those minutes When
Kay cunningham is on the. Bench AND i still believe
that this will pan. Out i'm waiting this The Bobby clintman.
ACQUISITION i.
Speaker 2: FAVORIT i think To langdon's, Credit like you might say, that,
well it's actually easier to come in and just look
at a situation where you made like none of the
decisions that produced the, roster like with fresh, eyes and
it's much it's easy to evaluate who needs to, stay
who needs to. GO i think actually his job is
harder because like it's difficult to just resist the clean
house urge and be LIKE i just want my guys.
HERE i got. No i'm just, gonna you, know whether
It's kaide not getting The max or we're gonna Move
ivy And durham and we're just Gonna we're, gonna LIKE
i want to start over because this is my team.
Now and LIKE i think that's a hard impulse to.
Resist and you see a lot of executives come in
and like that's what happens and mistakes get. Made SO
i think the degree of difficulty actually is like fairly
high for, him even though it may not seem like,
it just because like he could have just come in
and like we're. Good this seems. Terrible it's been terrible
for twenty, Years like why are we keeping any of
the pieces? Around and he didn't do.
Speaker 1: That and also there's the level of, okay like we
thought That Tobias harris contract was just so, stupid and it's.
Okay it was an, overpay Like Tobias harras has been
really useful for, them and it was honestly so Many
fontachio is the one that's been a, disappointment and we
thought that deal was spectacular in real, time.
Speaker 2: One of these, Days fontechio is gonna. Pop we're gonna be.
Speaker 1: Right those are our. Awards let us know who you
would be picking in the comment section below with all your,
picks what's your, disagreements what you liked about? It compliments
are always nice. Too with that out of the, way,
though before we get out of, here please. Money it
is back stat padding guess a player by popular. Demand
at least everyone claims they want it, back which So
i'm now putting the onus on our. Subscribers go join our.
DISCORD i will create what are they called subservers or,
whatever where you can submit into a form guess of
players That grant will read to, me or there'll be
a separate one THAT i can read To. Grant we
will continue when we do these to, say, okay go
put them in, there But i'm not gonna tag and
ask for them like we used. To if you want
guests a player, back give us guess the players And
mike each was kind enough to have a shit ton
of guessa players uh in the deck for. Us. Grant
before we go into, this how are you?
Speaker 2: FEELING i feel. Nervous out of. PRACTICE i feel like
there's a good chance that people could use. Players we've already,
done AND i won't remember it And i'll be, wrong
and that's just the shame of that will be difficult
to live. With how do you Feel it's been a long.
Speaker 1: Time it's been we haven't done it at. ALL i think
during this regular, season like ever since we did the
off season Look aheads is when that we kind of
phased it. Out SO i was fine BECAUSE i was
putting you under the. SPOTLIGHT i didn't care like you
were the one under. Pressure but NOW i find out
that you have something for, Me so NOW i am
a little. Bit NOW i am a little bit.
Speaker 2: Urker this is it's been A you're being surprised in
addition to all the normal stress of guess a.
Speaker 1: Player all, right so let's. Alternate do you want to
you wanna? Start i'll give you the clues.
Speaker 2: Here, okay give me the. Clues i'm ready.
Speaker 1: There there are there are seven clues. Here so let's
see how you. Do clue number. ONE i was draft
did by The warriors in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Three, WELL i, mean SHOULDN'T i just get this or SHOULD?
I Now i'm already drawing a blank twenty twenty? Three,
HMMM i forgot how much dead air this creates WHEN
i just sit here, thinking.
Speaker 1: WHICH i will not be cutting out because yeah, know
like that has to be part of the guess of player,
experiences us thinking our way silently through. It and if
you're watching on, YouTube you could look At grant like
furrowing his brow and fiddling with his. Hat but if
you're an, Audio.
Speaker 2: Yeah Brandon pajemski two thousand and, THREE i think you
said twenty.
Speaker 1: Three, no two thousand and, three which you care to guess?
Speaker 2: Again, No i'm gonna stick with. IT i think that's.
Right was he born in two thousand and? Three probably
not two thousand and Three warriors draft? PICK I i.
CAN'T i can't remember off the top of my. Head
SO i will ask you for another.
Speaker 1: Clue, okay clue number. Two at the TIME i was,
drafted many THOUGHT i could be a draft and stash.
Player BUT i came state side right away on a
Mediocre warriors.
Speaker 2: Squad, oh, okay came state, side Mediocre warriors, squad draft
and stash in two thousand and. Three, man this is
this is way later than. That but is It Kuzmich
it is Not Kuzmich, Okay, MAN i don't. Know what
year that guy was? Picked i'm gonna throw one more out. There,
oh what's his? Name Yerie welsh.
Speaker 1: Is not him, Either, okay pull names out of your,
ass THOUGH i respect. It clue number. THREE i was
not a very efficient score as a, rookie only putting
down shots at a forty one percent. Clip so he.
Speaker 2: Played as a rookie in? Three, uh what's that? Guy
this is another too late. One what's his? Name Like
Yaza kevishis or something starts with A j.
Speaker 1: That sounds like it might be a. Person got this, person,
THOUGH i.
Speaker 2: Feel LIKE i may be being led. Down mike likes
to use euro, players, though SO i don't think it's
going to be like a LIKE i don't know someone
From asia Or africa or.
Speaker 1: Something that's another reason to join our discord Is grant
will give you a psychological profile his proprietary.
Speaker 2: METRICS i like to try to get inside your. HEAD
i need to know whose Picks i'm trying to figure.
Out all, RIGHT i don't have. It that's pretty.
Speaker 1: Clear you want me to move on to the next,
clue then Please clue number. Four after three seasons of
being a bit player in two thousand and, six two
thousand and, SEVEN i scored a career high eleven point
one points per.
Speaker 2: Game Mikail, petris you got.
Speaker 1: It four. Clues nice. Job here are the other. Clues
clue five was this season led me to signing with The,
magic WHERE i was a good role player but showed
in the playoffs THAT i could not Guard. Kobe clue.
Six after my three year tenure with The, MAGIC i
bounced around to The, Suns, celtics And raptors before playing
In Puerto rico and finishing my career in my Native.
France include number. Seven my nephew was a prospect in
the twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Draft oh, Interesting two things About Michael. Peatrice, uh just
like had moments as a. Rookie NOW i remember where
it's like this guy is gonna be an all star,
wing like two way. Wing just had the perfect. Frame,
also never seen anyone step out of bounds more when
like in a triple threat about to attack a, defender
constantly step out of. Bounds that's My Michael petrice scouting.
Speaker 1: Report that's why people come To Hard, one not through
the obscure scouting reports of players from two decades.
Speaker 2: Ago basically The Brandon pajemski was not drafted in two
thousand and. Three that's the other. Reason all, RIGHT i
have one for, you this also From mike who number.
ONE i was drafted out OF unlv in nineteen ninety.
NINE i love how it's all of your clues seem
to include college stuff and you just never know. It
SO i, know all, RIGHT i was drafted out OF
unlv in nineteen ninety, nine ahead a Future nick's Legend
Pablo prigioni and Current PISTONS Gm Trajan langdon who went.
Eleventh so that's just two other guys in the ninety nine.
Draft ANY unlv from ninety nine guys you can think.
Speaker 1: Of nineteen ninety, Nine, uh nineteen ninety? Nine how far
back is? It who could HAVE i should take a
stab in the dark with. Somebody Uh, no he didn't
go to UN. Lv SEE i know Where Michael sweeten
he went to. College AND i don't think that was
ninety nine. Either yeah he, was he Was, georgetown all. Right,
YEAH i don't even have a. Guess keep, going.
Speaker 2: All, Right despite clue number, two despite missing thirty one
games as a, ROOKIE i still Made All rookie second.
Speaker 1: Team despite missing thirty. Seven so he was nineteen ninety
nine second Team All rookie is what we've established out OF. Unlv, Yep,
god this is tough for someone who did not. Well
how young WAS i in nineteen ninety. Nine holy, FUCK
i feel LIKE i should throw out like a name
who was drafted like in ninety. Nine every. Player i'm
thinking it's too, late.
Speaker 2: Right it's it's hard too because he hasn't given you
anything about like the type of player this, is so
you don't even know like how to narrow it.
Speaker 1: Down, YEAH i just need to think of like the,
time like who entered the league around ninety. Nine none
of the players that are springing to, MIND i know
they didn't go TO, unlv so, yeah carry, on please.
Speaker 2: All Right clue. Three as a, SOPHOMORE i averaged seventeen
points a. Game so From All rookie second team to
seventeen points in his second.
Speaker 1: Year in the year two.
Speaker 2: Thousands still.
Speaker 1: Tough, yeah Did Steve francis go to UN.
Speaker 2: Lv he went To? Maryland that is, no but you're
IN i think you're in the neighborhood like age, wise.
Speaker 1: Seventeen Points i've knowed so at that time thinking of
that time. Period could it just be a big for
someone who scored that many points in nineteen ninety?
Speaker 2: NINE i have confidence in the like clue five to eight,
range there are. TEN i think you'll start dialing.
Speaker 1: In all, right hit me with clue number.
Speaker 2: Four clue four is in year FOUR i made my
First All star, appearance averaging twenty one point two points a.
Night so now we're now you, know he's An All
star drafted in ninety nine out OF. Unlv this Like Richard. Lewis,
no it's Not Richard. Lewis, think why are you thinking about?
Speaker 1: It isn't the? Neighbor are you trying to figure this
out with? Me? No, no, NO i don't know.
Speaker 2: WHY i like looked quizzically. Up it's Not Richard.
Speaker 1: Lewis Desmond.
Speaker 2: Mason Not Desmond.
Speaker 1: Mason all, RIGHT i got nothing you.
Speaker 2: GOING i made The All Star game every year from
five to, seven bringing my total to. Four so now
we're in Perennial All. Stars i'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Look like such an asshole WHEN i don't get.
Speaker 2: That this is STILL i wouldn't have got it, Yet,
like no? Chance all?
Speaker 1: Right so he made Four All stars teams between two
thousand and four and two thousand and. Seven uh, yeah?
Yeah is that anybody's golden age of? Basketball probably.
Speaker 2: Not that was a rough. Stretch, WELL i don't want
to give it. Away i'll just Say i'll say there
was something interesting happening for one team in that stretch of.
Speaker 1: Years, OOH i still don't have? It keep going all?
Speaker 2: Right uh clu six after the two thousand and seven,
SEASON i was traded For.
Speaker 1: Shack So shaq in two thousand and, seven that's him
going to The heat lamar Odom, No Brian, Grant no
the fuck else was involved in that? Trade DO i
have the wrong? Time is that not the shows you?
Speaker 2: HAVE i think you Have shack going the wrong direction
From phoenix To.
Speaker 1: Phoenix where'd he go After? Miami? Oh my? GOD i
was traded For? Shaq this Is this is the timeline
That shaq was traded From miami right that that would
have been his fourth. Team he wasn't already on his fourth.
TEAM i mean in two thousand and, seven was?
Speaker 2: HE i, Mean i'm not Sure i'm allowed to answer your.
Speaker 1: Question yeah you. Can't i'm Just i'm talking loud right.
HERE i was traded For. Shack that's gonna be the
one That But shaq was traded a Few, YEAH i keep, Going.
Speaker 2: Okay clue. SEVEN i played one year with The, heat
so you know this was someone going to The heat
For shack before going to The raptors at the deadline
For jermaine O'Neil And Jamrio.
Speaker 1: Moon it's gonna bug the shit out of. Me WAS
i don't remember Who phoenix traded For. SHACK i don't
even Know i'm Saying. Phoenix i'm not even sure if
That shack's fourth. Team let me, say because there's The,
calves there's The. Celtics where else was? He? UH i
still don't have.
Speaker 2: It So shack Goes Magic, Lakers Heat. Suns then then
is It Cave? Celtics after? THAT i can't remember something like.
That keep, GOING i am all, Right clue Number in
the off, SEASON i signed a five, year thirty nine
million dollar deal with The, MAVs Brian.
Speaker 1: Cardinal that's a great, pull but it's never. TERRIFIC i
just remember getting a ridiculous contract from the Mav all.
Right there's a Former All star, though and this is
what year did he signed with The.
Speaker 2: MAVs, SORRY i guess we would be in so.
Speaker 1: Oh they didn't give a.
Speaker 2: Year then he, Don't, well you can reverse engineer it
traded For shaq AND o seven so with The heat
AND i guess that'd BE o seven oh eighth ends
up with The, raptors and then so you're in the,
like oh nine to ten range when he gets To
dallas on that five year of thirty nine million dollar, Deal.
Speaker 1: Jason williams was He i'm just he was never on The.
Suns i'm just naming random. Players at this, POINT.
Speaker 2: I think you might get. It, well you got two clues.
LEFT i think you're gonna get. It but it might be.
Speaker 1: Tight so it was a five, year thirty nine million
dollar deal with The. MAVs i'm. Trying So i'm. Trying
i'm trying to, think AND i feel LIKE i might
might thought process might just be in the wrong. Realm
So i'm never gonna get. This i'm trying to think, Of,
okay who played for The, suns The heat and The
mavericks is What i'm trying to figure out in my.
Head and The raptors. Too, yeah it's.
Speaker 2: Tough The raptors one is LIKE i BARELY i would
not have IF i you made me list this guy's.
TEAMS i THINK i would have probably forgotten The. Raptors,
YEAH i, guess keep, going Please clue. NINE i was
part of The MAVs title.
Speaker 1: Team MAVs won the title in twenty. Eleven oh, wait
they also wanted well this is yeah twenty.
Speaker 2: Eleven this is referring to.
Speaker 1: Eleven. Yeah, Uh Deshaun.
Speaker 2: Stevenson, no he was ever An All.
Speaker 1: Star tell doesn't matter with. Me Sean, marion.
Speaker 2: That's, It Sean, Mary you got.
Speaker 1: It why WAS i naming players that were clearly Never All? Stars?
Too so?
Speaker 2: Bad because that's why this game is, hard is because
you can't keep all that in your head at the
same time under. Pressure all, right got? It so the
last clue was in twenty, FOURTEEN i became the FIRST
nba player in history with fifteen thousand, points ten thousand,
rebounds one thousand, blocks and five hundred. Threes THAT i.
Speaker 1: Might have that would have been like the it was.
Speaker 2: Credit, mike because there's really no mention at all of
the seven seconds or less like suns, stuff which is
WHAT i was referring, to and like there was something
interesting going on at this at this.
Speaker 1: STAGE i never would have guessed the rap like because
The raptors THAT i never would have Guess Sewan marian.
Speaker 2: M, Hmm, yeah the raptors thing like even the shack.
TRADE i would have struggled to get. There that's why
it's a good.
Speaker 1: Clue at LEAST i got that the heat WHERE i,
WELL i first didn't get. It at LEAST i got
that that was around the time that it was the,
heat because he was just all over the.
Speaker 2: Place and that's where where you where you fall off
in the college, knowledge you always make up for it
and remembering who was traded for who WHICH i.
Speaker 1: Don't, well what do you? Say one more? Each all?
Speaker 2: Right are?
Speaker 1: You are you? Ready strap? In guess a player number
two for grant clue number. One despite leading my college
program to a national, title my Coach Jim calhoun was
under consistent scrutiny from local media for quote unquote choosing
me and Teammate Karan butler Over Ryan gomez coming out
of high. School fun, fact both of us would have
better careers Than Ryan.
Speaker 2: Gomez, yeah, okay teammate With Koran. Butler, Uh i'll just
Guess Ben. Gordon that is it is Not Ben. Gordon
see this IS i don't have great college knowledge, either
BUT i think we're In yukon, territory SO i.
Speaker 1: Hope.
Speaker 2: Man If i'm wrong on, that that's. Embarrassing But i'll take.
This i'll take the next, clue please clue number.
Speaker 1: TWO i was a lottery selection in two thousand and
four and went to a young team that had no
idea what they were trying to.
Speaker 2: Build uh oh H Kemba, Walker, No, no that's too.
Late who else went To? Yukon Jake voskel.
Speaker 1: Is that? It? No but that's such a good.
Speaker 2: Ball, WELL i don't know.
Speaker 1: HOW i. DON'T i.
Speaker 2: CAN'T i can't even think of any Other yukon. Players damn. It,
Also James bosco probably played in like the, nineties AND i.
Speaker 1: Can't it's hard because you have to. Know it's not
just a matter of, knowing like you have to know
the time period of.
Speaker 2: College, Well Coron butler should anchor it a little. Bit
And i'm, thinking but he was like around he was
early two, THOUSANDS i think when he came into the.
League but, ah, man so it's, OKAY i.
Speaker 1: DON'T i don't have.
Speaker 2: It i'll take another, clue, Please clue.
Speaker 1: THREE i won bronze with THE Us olympic team before
ever playing in THE.
Speaker 2: Nba oh uh uh amica okaphor, Correct, okay you did
that on guess? Three h SHOULD i should have got
that on went to a team that had no idea
what it was.
Speaker 1: Doing, yeah your hit rate was very impressive, Here So clue.
FOUR i averaged a career high in points as a
rookie with fifteen. Injuries injuries are a, bitch as they
cost me much of the next two. Seasons that WAS clu,
Five clue six and two thousand and. NINE i was
traded For Tyson chandler in a money saving. MOVE clu.
SEVEN i was part Of New orleans for three years
UNTIL i was moved To washington for a. Year what is?
That injuries put my career on. HOLD clu. EIGHT i
would miss four seasons trying to get clear before ultimately
returning in twenty eighteen with The Pelican with the Now
PELICANS clu. Nine you might Think i'm a, bust BUT
i averaged twelve points and nine point seven rebounds for my.
Speaker 2: Career yeah, yeah oh, Man SO i think he was
The Dwight howard DRAFT i think, right, yeah where it, Was, yeah, well,
boy this is dating. US i can remember at some,
point really early in that process writing or like kicking
around the idea of like what Do folka four actually
was the bitter pick like because at some POINT i
think our was like had a you've got fifteen and
something in his rookie.
Speaker 1: Year you said he Won rookie of The year Over.
Dwight he averaged fifteen eleven rebounds and then one point
seven blocks per, game shot forty four point. Twos he
would never have won it in TODAY'S. Nba my, god not.
Speaker 2: Good all, RIGHT i will offer YOU i feel like
we've done this, one but it's been long enough to
Where i'm sure you don't remember. It so here we.
Speaker 1: Go well we know it is all either one, shot
kill it or not get it at. ALL i think
is THE i don't.
Speaker 2: Hate your odds, here even though it does reference college
for the first several. Clues all, Right clue, ONE i
was a. DANCE i was a dance craze during my freshman.
Speaker 1: SEASON i was a Dance is that referring to like
The March Madness? TOURNAMENT i was a dance.
Speaker 2: CRAZE i, Can't i'm not. Gonna i'm just reading what's
on the sheet?
Speaker 1: Here can you read it?
Speaker 2: BACK i was a dance craze during my freshman. SEASON
i would, Say i'll. Editorialize uh this person, was.
Speaker 1: It DOESN'T i don't even have the YEAR i?
Speaker 2: Like, YEAH i would, say speaking, Personally, stephan this person
made me aware of a dance THAT i had not
been aware of at the. Time how about?
Speaker 1: That and it's pop culture and College i'm screwed a little,
bit all.
Speaker 2: Right clue number. TWO i was the first Ever Kentucky
wildcat to be selected number one.
Speaker 1: OVERALL i should just take a stab at A Kentucky.
Wildcat Yeavy davis wasn't selected first? Overall? Uh why DON'T
i have this First Kentucky? Wildcats what's not tow? SHIT
i don't know how keep.
Speaker 2: Going clue number. Three My Kentucky wildcats set a record
with five first round picks in the same draft the
YEAR i was selected led by?
Speaker 1: Me is This Karl Anthony?
Speaker 2: Towns so it's a number one overall pick From kentucky before?
HIM i don't THINK i could Name MAYBE i could
name them. ALL i don't think.
Speaker 1: So who went number? ONE i should have this one.
ALREADY i feel LIKE i feel LIKE i remember the
other guys who are on that, team which puts the
date around what, THOUGH i think you're gonna HAVE i
guess keep.
Speaker 2: Going you will get this, one not necessarily this clue
BECAUSE i didn't know this number. Four the team that drafted,
me was considered a controversial team to get the first,
pick as many thought they'd been awarded the top pick
after their owner had passed away during the. SEASON i
have no.
Speaker 1: RECOLLECTION i don't remember this slant at.
Speaker 2: All, okay, YEAH i wouldn't focus on that. One disregard that.
Clue it's gonna.
Speaker 1: Throw h hit me with clue, four the clue.
Speaker 2: FIVE i was named to the first Team All rookie
after averaging sixteen points and eight.
Speaker 3: Assists oh, no oh, god this is.
Speaker 1: Good i'm gonna be so.
Speaker 2: Mad CAN I CAN i summarize in a way they'll
hopefully be? Helpful number one pick out Of kentucky first
Team All rookie sixteen and, eight and it's four. Towns
that's that's? All you?
Speaker 1: Know time wise so. Far banging my head against my
microphone right, Now i'm so why DON'T i know? This
sixteen and? Eight that Was rookie rookie season numbers, correct.
Speaker 2: Sixteen points eight. Assists it's a lot of assists for a.
Speaker 1: Rookie sixteen points. Eight, yeah that's just there can't be
many who have averaged eight, assists AND i feel who
BUT i.
Speaker 2: Can't this is a great player to pick because it's
like he's a big, deal but just not someone you've
given a lot of thought to.
Speaker 1: RECENTLY i think you're gonna have to keep.
Speaker 2: Going this is, RIGHT i like your chances. Still clue.
Six the team got my running mate two years, later
and we started consistently making the playoffs but not being
much of a. Factor when we, did we did sweep
a four seed along the, way but that was about.
Speaker 1: It my team did Get Kiri thatt one more.
Speaker 2: Time, okay the team got my running mate two years,
later and we started consistently making the playoffs but not
being much of a. Factor when we, did we did
sweep a four seed along the, way but that was about.
It don't remember that, series but ap app to description
as far as like making the playoffs but not doing
anything generally.
Speaker 1: Got my running. MATE i have no. Idea keep.
Speaker 2: Going all, right this we're getting closer. Here you've got ten.
Clues this is clue. Seven a hyper. Athlete injuries started
slowing me down around my age twenty five, season AND
i stopped being able to consistently.
Speaker 1: Play i'm, like why why CAN'T i get?
Speaker 2: This you're gonna get It on the next, ONE i,
think all.
Speaker 1: RIGHT i NEED i need to throw a name out,
there but, like who just went To? KENTUCKY i feel
LIKE i know maybe the, year but Now i'm thinking
because of the sixteen and, EIGHT i Don't and the
running mate, THING i don't even THINK i, know like
teammate his TEAMMATES h got my running mate in the?
Playoffs never really a playoff. Threat where did JEFF t go?
To school's A jeff D Jeff?
Speaker 2: T i think he went to Like Georgia tech or.
Something give me the next. Clue all, RIGHT i was
going to give you an extra, clue BUT i won't do.
That clue. EIGHT i was traded To houston in my
tenth season for another point guard many had started to
give up. ON i was traded To houston in my
age what, season tenth, season tenth season for a player
many had given up, On for another point guard many
had started to give up. On and the wording is
another point, Guard so you can't infer that we're talking
about a point guard.
Speaker 1: Here sixteen and. Eight that was pretty. Clear, Yeah i'm
you know so he can you read that one more?
Speaker 2: TIME i was traded To houston in my tenth season
for another point. Guard many had started to give up on.
Speaker 1: Who else was involved. IN i don't have. It what's
the next last? Clue you? Got two?
Speaker 2: More number? NINE i was injured for all of my
second season In. Houston they ended up paying me forty
million dollars to stay.
Speaker 1: Home oh, Fuck John? Wall you got?
Speaker 2: It so you don't? Remember like when he would come
out for intros At, kentucky he would.
Speaker 1: Like do it, NOW i do do? THAT i had
that song on my. Playlist do The John? WALL i had,
that SO i have that is a? Miss oh, hey
you got?
Speaker 2: IT a clue ten would have. BEEN i signed with
The clippers two years ago to play forty plus, games
but didn't play in the twenty three twenty four. Season
I'm John.
Speaker 1: Wall who was his running mate that they.
Speaker 2: Got BIAL i assume it's whore he's referring.
Speaker 1: To but he didn't go To. Kentucky, no it.
Speaker 2: Did that's not part of the.
Speaker 1: Question, OH i got hung up on. IT i thought
they acquired his running Meat. Kentucky SO i was, like WHAT.
Speaker 2: I could see? That? Yeah, NO I i it was
meant as like they got his running mate with The.
Wizards Who so That kentucky class Was? Cousins wall was
Like Patrick patterson or something That booker.
Speaker 1: Draft that's too, early, Right.
Speaker 2: NO i think it's too. Early was So Willie Cawley
stein was with kat right and Not. Cousins AND i. Can't, oh,
MAN i don't. KNOW i Think I've I've i've used
up My kentucky.
Speaker 1: Knowledge, wait so What So John wall was? Drafted what
year was that? Again John wall was two thousand? Eleven? Right, no,
yeah what was? It john almost twenty? Eleven what's? Wrong twenty? Ten?
Speaker 2: Sorry With cousins and who?
Speaker 1: Else So DeMarcus cousins went To Kentucky Patrick, PATTERSON i
was using all in On Patrick. Patterson uh he? Went
So John wall number, One Wesley johnson number? Four oh, no,
wait he didn't go he went To. Syracuse, SORRY dmc number,
Five Patrick patterson number, Fourteen Eric bletsoe. Eighteen that was
the NAME i glombed Onto and Then Daniel orton at
number twenty, nine big. Guy and then there was another
one number fifty Five Jeremy, evans Six kentucky players winning that.
Speaker 2: Track, wow, okay, hey, uh let me give a just
because he did?
Speaker 1: Him?
Speaker 2: Uh, dan Who's Bill walton talking about a phenomenal performance
By blank just pounding the? Glass is he talking About Elton,
Brand Kevin, GARNETT. Pj, Brown Paiges soyakovic Or Fred, Hoiberg Fred.
Hoiberg that is, Correct you've you've cracked the bulllog.
Speaker 1: GAME i had to give you one of The bill Walt.
Ons we can save the other. Ones but who Is
Bill walton talking About Grant blank winner of The Genetic?
Lottery is It Matt, Bonner Amari, Stotdameier Tim, Thomas Ben
gordon Or ron Our.
Speaker 2: Test it should be A Mariy. Stottamayer what was the
first name you, Said Matt? Bonner he's gonna say it's
It's Matt.
Speaker 1: Bonner WHENEVER i read, THAT i think Of Matt. Bomber
uh BECAUSE i used to watch the Show White. Collar
but it's actually A Maris.
Speaker 2: Stottamayer, oh good, Job, bill THAT i got an accurate.
One uh got anything.
Speaker 1: Else, no thank You mike for those that. Was that
was a nice little. Return LIKE i, said we could
try and do these maybe once a, week or if
we're if we're just gonna exchange to each maybe it
could be at the end of each. Pod but send them.
In i'll create the discord room before this podcast goes
out for your, submissions or Maybe i'll wait till after
so it's not people were Only mike KNOWS i guess
the player is coming, back so MAYBE i should wait
until the podcast. Drops then the day After i'll make
the subservers for J, YES i.
Speaker 2: WOULD i would echo those thanks as usually, everybody thanks for,
listening for, Watching thanks for the. Contributions mike, again submit
file them like give us give us. Some those WERE
i think exemplary of the level of difficulty that makes
for a good guess a. Player anything easier.
Speaker 1: Is i'm sufficiently like self loathing right.
Speaker 2: Now you got, them but you hate yourself a little,
bit which is exactly where you want to be at
the end of A guessa.
Speaker 1: Player you killed, it though this time you had two
like less than halfway. Through you got, it.
Speaker 2: You, know just, uh it's kind of like just helps
to come in. FRESH i don't have any of the
stigma of my past failures still bother. Me ring Review
subscribe check us out on. YouTube make sure you're subscribed.
There leave us some comments on this. Video As dan,
mentioned let us know any of our. Oversights praise our.
SUCCESSES u you, know uh lambast us for our, failures
all that good. Stuff join our discord links for that
in YouTube and podcast. Subscriptions that's, it Shouts frank Mil
Keen apologies Chaired allen