Speaker 1: Hi, this is Ray Brown from Owings, Maryland, and I
play golf at swan Point Country Club. Welcome to Golf Smarter.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: This is Joe A. Spinoza from Austin, Texas and I
play at Mill Creek in.
Speaker 2: Toledo, Texas.
Speaker 1: It's a Golf Smarter number one thousand, nineteen. During the
pre shot routine, when you're choosing your spot, there is
a course management part of playing where you absolutely want
to hit it or miss it in a certain area.
There's incredible amounts of strokes that can be shaved off
your game simply by picking the right place to go. However,
there's a moment at which you're thinking has to change
from where the ball is going to end up to
the task at hand, which is the only thing you
can affect, which is the ball that's in front of you.
So your target is actually the ball. All of the
pre shot routine part is you deciding where you want
to try to hit that ball, but you can't affect
where it's going to go. You can't affect what's going
to happen over there. You can get it started, but
you can only get it started in the two feet
on either side.
Speaker 2: That matters. But is the ball the target?
Speaker 1: Absolutely it is. By the time you're hitting the ball
is the target.
Speaker 2: It's time to make golf fun again, starting at the
ball and moving backwards with David Buck.
Speaker 1: This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from
great golf minds to help you lower your score and
raise your golf IQ. There's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast.
Speaker 1: David, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: It's great to have you on this show. This is
going to be a silly conversation. I have a feeling
just for our three minutes of prap.
Speaker 1: Well, I have two languages. I've got English and I've
got sarcasms. So that's that's really all I got to work.
Speaker 2: With, Bill, Well, I have just by listening to your
voice a little bit, I censor your Canadian.
Speaker 1: I am Canadian, I can Leona. I can put on
the Canadian accident real sharp if you want to e
but I need a bit of able to do that.
Speaker 2: Well, so the English and sarcasm is actually speaking Canadian.
Speaker 1: It's just natural. We don't even hold a candle towards
the Australians. They're just a level higher.
Speaker 2: So it's so true it's so true. Let's get a
little bit of your background in golf so that we
can establish the craziness that we're going to learn about
from you in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Sure. So, basically, I used to play baseball, and my
brother broke his knee playing baseball, and I really didn't
want to do what my brother did. You know, you
try to learn from your elders. And I didn't want
to play a sport like football or hockey or baseball.
I was going to get hurt, so I quit the
baseball and a buddy of mine this in the seventh grade,
when I was thirteen years old, said well, I got
a junior membership the course of summer. It's three hundred bucks.
My mom's driving me out anyways, why don't you come
join me. I never played golf before. I mean, this
is going back a few years. This is in the
early nineties, and a golf at that point was a
you know, it was the nerd game. It's like, nobody
plays golf unless you got.
Speaker 2: Just before Tiger Both at the scene it was.
Speaker 1: Greg Norman era, right, and it was it was uh yeah,
and I mean titleist was was on the forefront. They
were just I started still using bellattas and DT wounds.
So when the prov came out that was that was
quite a thing. But we played all summer, and then
we played all summer next summer, and then we thought, hey,
well maybe I should, you know, get a coach and
start doing this more seriously. And we made some really
good decisions in there. And I'm sure I don't know
about you. I'm only five seven, and I mean, especially
back in the day, we didn't have distance, we didn't
have distance clinics teaching you how to hit it further.
You had what you had, and you played it. And
I hit the ball about two hundred and sixty yards
and hit driver everywhere. And my my parents sat down
and said, you know what, I you know, I think
you've got something here, But don't play tournaments yet, don't
don't get in with the guys who are physically bigger
than you. And so we took an entire year there
at sixteen and played no tournaments and did nothing but
practiced some drills and short game and putting and playing.
And by the time I was seventeen started playing tournaments.
I was I jumped right up into the Canadian junior
rankings and was playing the Canadian Juniors and then qualified
for the World Juniors for two years or he's going
back for you two or three years, played Overseas a
little bit over and over in Asia as a junior,
even got some invites to some things over there. Went
to school in California and had a very short stay
at the school due to some disagreements between the coach
and I and turn Pro. From there my brother. My
brother was out playing chasing mini tours and Monday qualifiers
at that point, so I went out and joined him
and turn Pro ended up playing for three years and
it was absolutely wonderful and learned all sorts of stuff
and had incredible heartbreak and incredible triumph and all the
things that golf golf gives to you. Uh. Then then
I I I left it. I left it and and uh,
you know, as I say, I left it in a
way that I wasn't, you know, I was. I made
the choice. It was my choice, but it was you know,
you look back on it and say, ah, what if
you could have thin done things differently? And I gave
up the game completely for a number of years, and
then you know, you get to a point where you're
not able to do what you used to be able
to do. And so that's just it's just it's just frustration.
And so it took me a few years to learn
to enjoy the game again, and I did, And long
story short, now, I mean there's no place I would
rather be than on the first T, not the eighteenth green,
because then the rounds over the first T, you know,
the with the with the upcoming ground of go. But
you know, through my through my teaching, through my experience,
you know, I think the things a little bit differently
maybe than some. And I've had I had a few
instans is in my career where I got you know,
I got a five minute lesson from somebody that changed
my golfing life. And well it's not it's not a
matter of complicated. It's a matter of being able to
understand what has to happen here and allowing our bodies
to actually do it. So now I play golf. I
raised my kids up there are nine and twelve, and
learn how to play pretty well if you ask me.
But I am biased, and I coach others and help people,
and my main, my main goal is to help people
enjoy the game more so if that means enjoying the
game more through lower strokes, fantastic. If it means enjoying
the game by stopping the shanks or curing the yips,
then great, fantastic. If it means that we were talking
about before we start, you're the mental hurdle of getting through.
You know, Hey, this thing's got to get to there somehow,
and I want to do it more joyfully. It's the
best place in the world when you have contentment and
joy also, but it can also be the worst place
when you're frustrated and shanking it into the woods. Of course, anyways,
that gives you, That gives little synopsis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like I, you know, not the eighteenth green.
I've always felt like seventeenth t is like, to me,
the most depressing thing. We're almost I don't want to
I don't want to go home. I like it here.
Speaker 1: Let me play another eighteen?
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, No, not anymore. Cannot do thirty six in
a day? What Wait, what happened to you? You went
on and became a competitive and good golfer. But what
happened to that first friend who invited you out? He
got the three hundred dollars and his mom was driving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, parted ways. We parted ways as at about eighteen.
And it's funny. I've reached out to him a couple
of times but haven't heard back. He's now a lawyer,
and even if you go to his website, he's like, yeah,
I do you know, I do laf for for big
corporation litigation and in my off time, I'm working on
my golf game.
Speaker 2: Still he's still working on it.
Speaker 1: The most entertaining thing about the whole thing is it
does not matter what level of golf you're at. If
you're a beginner junior year in two, three, four, or
you're a seasoned pro or you know, I've had a
lifetime of golf. You hear something and you're like, I
gotta go try it out. And I remember one time
this guy, this guy, we were seventeen years old, and
we were on the first tea and he had read
somewhere in Golf Digest or something that you should have
your your feet open a little bit more. And he's like, guys,
I finally figured out how to cure my hook. I've
got it. I've figured it out. And he stands up
on the first tee and his feet were splayed almost
fully open right down.
Speaker 2: Balat position, ballets first position.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're laughing before he's even started, just kind
of chuckling underneath our breath. And he stands up on
the tee there and he rope hooks one like sixty
yards to the left, out of bounds into the driving right.
He's like, oh, maybe i'n't fixed it yet.
Speaker 2: You talked about the lows and the highs, but you
said in edible triumphs, share that.
Speaker 1: I got to share the first one with you. And
the first one happened when I was sixteen years old
and I was playing shally they paid played the ninety
seven PGA Championship there there was I was. This was
nineteen ninety eight and we were playing a pro am
there and I was an am obviously, I was a
junior at the time, and I double bogie the first
hole after hitting just a beautiful shot right over the flagstick,
pried in the back bunker, and you know, didn't get
a long story, short part of the second hole, bogie
the third hole, I'm three over part. From then on
went on to make seven birdies in an albatross, won
the tournament by four strokes.
Speaker 2: And that which hole.
Speaker 1: Part It was fifteen number number fifteen, Part five. I
went driver, Driver, Driver into the cup.
Speaker 2: Driver driver. You had driver into the cup from how
far away.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna say it was probably two sixty five
low off hill, front left pin pulass placement. I watched
it go in, and you know, I watched it go
in and it's like your eyes, you don't believe it.
And so the guys are back there in the fairway,
you know, hit, I said, guys, I think that went in.
I just start running up to the.
Speaker 2: Hole and driver off the deck right.
Speaker 1: I'm playing. I found one online. I found on an
eBay an old driver, the one that I had, and
it was called a speed slot and it was.
Speaker 2: Great driver.
Speaker 1: It was fantastic.
Speaker 2: I had a little bit heard about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this little like low point on it. It
was really easy to hit off the deck. I watched
it go in, ran up there, I'm by myself, there's
nobody around, looked down into the cup there and is
sitting right there the next hole. And my dad was
in the same group that because it was a pro
am thing. So it was a group of us from
one club coming up to play, and so in the
sixteenth hole is a downhill dog leg right. I had
one hundred and sixty five yards left, which was a
six iron for me at that point, and pen was
back right on the next hole, and my dad whispered, assuming,
let's see what you really made of now, And I
remember standing over that ball still is one of the
best shots I've ever hit. Yeah, I just made albatrosses hole.
But that next I piped it down the middle. I
had one hundred and sixty five left. I had a
little choke down punch cut six iron. Just it was
I knew it. I mean even when he was said it,
he's like, I said, no, it's this is going to
be perfect. I'm not going to miss this. This is
and those moments, those moments when you're on the course
and everything's just easy. Oh so anyways, that was my
first professional win, even though I wasn't professional at the time,
and I had Yeah, I had twelve professional wins over
the time, usually small events. But the you know, the
joy of winning never never ceases. Where there's whether there's
three hundred people in the field or ten.
Speaker 2: So is it an amazing how one shot can just
lock into your memory forever?
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, and and and unfortunately it goes the other
way too. There's some some shots that have locked in
the wrong way to do there was let me give
you the flip side of that. For whatever reason, and
tournament play me teeing off of the three wood never worked.
I couldn't hit the tea the three wood just in
the first hole, whatever the pressure was. I could hit
an iron, I could hit I could hit it, I
get hit it in a part of three I hit driver,
but I couldn't hit three wood. I always top it, Okay,
And I'm planning this event down in Louisiana, and sure enough,
I'm like, no, the play is of three wood. I'll
play the three wood. I got to get over this thing.
It's not a big deal. It was a titleist nine
to seventy two, the little red, gray and red lined
title of three wood. And I hit it, and of
course I topped it. Didn't even get to the white
teas like. It was just awful. And the tournament organizer
says to the guy. There's a guy standing next to
the tournament organizer, and he says, why do you like,
why do you let guys like this play in these events?
Like this is, this is, this is kind of embarrassing,
and the tournament organizer says to him, you just watch,
he'll come in with the sixty seven. I'm sure I
came in with the sixty seventh, but yes, I can
still feel all of those tops off the first team.
It's probably only five times I took a three foot
off the tee because of that. But they burn both ways.
Speaker 2: The great shots are always worth talking about. The bad
shots linger in your head and terrify you when you're
coming up to a similar shot or something, and people
are always oh, I, always oh I every time you
know my three? Would I top it? And you know,
you get that stuff going in your head. And I'm
always trying to remind my friends, hey, history has nothing
to do with your next shot. Just you do your
swing the way you do you and don't think about that.
How do we prevent that? How do we keep our
minds straight without getting nuts about that stuff?
Speaker 1: I could probably touch on that now a few years later.
Speaker 2: Please do.
Speaker 1: One of the greats. And this I cannot I can't
find who said it, but it was not me said
when pressure picks up, the process takes over. I don't
know if you've heard that over the years. Bytimes, pressure
is a fear of the unknown. It's either we haven't
been in that situation before, we haven't prepared for that situation.
There's unknowns that we don't know. And I relate it
back to skydiving. First time you go skydiving I've ever been,
it's really scary. I mean, you're jumping out of a plane,
trusting a parachute to take you to the ground. But
the hundredth time that you've done it, and you've learned
how to pack your shoot, and you know where all
the cords are, and you know what it's going to
feel like when you jump out of the plane and
how long you're going to be in the air, and
how to breathe with the wind coming in your face,
and there's no more unknowns, there's no fear. So that
knowledge actually conquers the fear and it is able to
take over to the point where you can do crazy
stuff not being afraid because you have enough knowledge to
take over. But you see these guys that are seasoned
pros in the Ryder Cup coming down the stretch at
Majors in an unknown position that they hadn't prepared for.
That they have questions that haven't answered. Maybe the question
is am I going to hit at a club further
because I'm jew straight now? Or is it? You know,
there's there's unknowns. But if you get there enough times
and you and you do the same thing over and
over enough, that allows you to overcome the fear and
the pressure and be able to focus on the thing
they actually have focused on. So for me, when I
when I explain this to people, which is strangely quite
often because the mental game is such a huge part
of golf. It comes in the pre shot routine and
the repetition of that pre shout routine over and over
and over, and you're trusting the process of getting the
ball so that when you're over the ball, all you're
thinking is center of the ball, center to club face,
hit them. I can do that. What I can't do
is listen to the crowd and the situation. And you know,
I've got a I've got a putt for If I
make this putt, I will. Oh. Now you've added more
stuff into your mind. You've added more details that you
have don't have answers for, and that causes stress, which
causes pressure, and as you know, at tension is the
killer of the golf game. So with the knowledge of
being able to answer all of your questions before you
get up there where club wind, where you want to
hit it, where it's going to land, what you're trying
to do, make those decisions. You don't have to think
about them anymore. Then you go through your process of
lining up, which all happens very quickly as you're going
through your pre shot routine. I know I'm lined up,
I know my club face is square, I know what
shot I'm hitting. There's no more questions I have. All
I have to do is center of ball, center of face.
Speaker 2: We don't doubt our process. What gets into our head
is results right, and that's what gets in the way
of process. Well we have we do all our process,
and we do it right, and all of a sudden
you're shanking it or you're you know, it's gone in
the way. It can do any number of things. And
I also have a yabbut for your skydiver. Okay, with golf,
there's a lot of mistakes that can be in your
memory bank about what's going to happen next. But the
yabbo for the sky driver, the skydiver is one bat
one mistake, and he's not going to remember what he's
doing because he ain't doing it again. So let's let's
leave the skydiving to someone else. It's not Golf is
worrisome and stressful, but it's not hopefully not dangerous to
hope not.
Speaker 1: But I'm pretty sure a few of us have been
hit by arron golf balls over the years.
Speaker 2: But knock on wood, so far not yet.
Speaker 1: Oh good for you.
Speaker 2: You mean you have Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a few people in my family who have
been hit by golf.
Speaker 2: I live next to a I have a golf hole
right here, I'm right in driving range, and I get
balls all the time. And luckily, in the thirteen years
we've lived here, only one person's been hit and it
was just a brush off of a bounce, so brush
on their arm off the bount So so far, so
good on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, you're right, there are yabbuts, and it's
hard because we're human. We get stuff in our minds,
we get we want to win, and then we change
our target. We change our target from the ball that's
in front of us to the pin that's over there,
or I haven't forbid the water that's left of that
that's typically where.
Speaker 2: So you're really big on making golf fun again, right,
and many methods to do that. But I need some
advice and I'm glad you're here to help me out
on this because just today my wife, who doesn't play golf,
she's she's taken a golf lesson for twelve she's played
nine holes a couple times, but she doesn't really have
a lot of interest in playing golf. She likes to
hike and I like, and I say all the time,
I like to hike too, just every so often I
want to hit something right, so I walk when I
play golf today and is she listening now? Okay, today
she announces to me, I want to play golf with
you again. I would like to go back now. I'm
interested in going back out and playing with you again.
I'm like, but you know, we've got a net back here.
We can we can work a little bit on the net,
and you know, have you take a call? No, no, no,
I just want to go out. It's just to have fun.
I don't want lessons. I just and I'm happy to
pick up the ball. How do I make that fun
for me? How to give me some advice of what
I can do to not get caught up because I'm
not going to give lessons during the round. I'm like, oh,
good shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't want your lessons spread.
Speaker 2: So no, no, no, no, absolutely not. I'm a big advocate
of keeping with your kid or your spouse, keep your
mouth shut when you're out on the golf course.
Speaker 1: Just you know, I'm going to have to jump into
a philosophical rant than bread.
Speaker 2: Go for it, David, let's do it.
Speaker 1: It all has to do with your expectations. And you
go out on a golf course and it's just you
or you and the guys. You have a certain expectation
what's going to happen during the round. You're going to
go play. You're trying to, you know, beat your best score.
You're trying to, you know, make pars, you're trying to
hit good shots. You're jabbering about each other's golf shots.
And then there's a certain, shall we say, environ that
goes with playing with the guys. I have recently spent
quite a bit of time beside golf courses just listening
to groups, going by the language, the sarcasm, the jabbing,
the ribbing that happens in these golf groups is very,
very strong and prominent until you get a husband and
wife with another husband and wife coming by, and then
there's no more ribbing, and there's no more jabbing, and
then there's no more yelling at each other as they
hit a terrible shot and topped it into the bunker.
It's a much different environment one group to the next,
and your fun has to be based on your choice
of what fun looks like to you out there with
your wife. So for her, as she says, happy to
pick up, so you say, okay, look, your fun is
I'm going hiking and I'm hitting a few balls, and
I'm spending time with my husband, which means walking to
my ball, and you set parameters around her golfing as okay,
the main point is we keep up to the group
in front of us, which means if that means skipping
a hole and walking along with me, if it means
hitting more shots, if we're waiting, hey sweet, hit a
few more shots around the green and try putting it
into the hole. From here, your fun becomes I'm choosing
to enjoy this time with my wife and we get
to hit a few golf balls while we're at it,
but I would strongly recommend not to keep score during
that round.
Speaker 2: For you, Fred, that's the advice I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just keep just enjoy it. And my wife's actually
right over there, probably laughing at me at the same time,
because she too brought I took up golf as our
youngest nine year old when he started about five or six.
She's like, well, if I don't play golf, I'm gonna
get left behind. So she started playing as well, and
it's very similar. I mean she for many many rounds
it's pretty bad. Couldn't get off the tea, couldn't hit
it in the fairway. And just this year and just
this springtime, she's been hitting drives nicely. Now we just
got her a lighter three wood that she's able to
hit off the ground. She can put Uh, just learned
how to chip this year. So she played four years
not knowing how to chip and just putting it everywhere.
But being with us learning how to play, and it's
not even so much learning how to play, for it's
just like a little bit of joy hitting the ball
or not hitting it on the water in this hole,
or having colored balls that she gets to play with
instead of it's it's a different it's a different expectation,
but it's the same game. So if you set your
expectation of I get to spend time with my wife
today and we're outside and hiking and hitting some golf balls,
you you will have fun.
Speaker 2: Are you your wife making suggestions in the background?
Speaker 1: Jump jump in, poke your head in what's.
Speaker 3: I would say that for years, there's a difference. Even
when I'm with my kids, there's a difference and a
game that I'm working on my game, and there's a
difference on the game that I'm having fun with the people.
Speaker 1: I'm with, Okay, and so there's a.
Speaker 3: Social game and then there's a work like a try
to get exercising game where yeah, I'm working on my
shots and I'm trying to get better. And so what
I'm playing with my kids sometimes if one of them
is in a bad attitude or whatever, then that's the sort. No,
never a social game, and I just enjoy the ride
with my family. I'm out doing the thing that he loves,
the thing that my oldest son loves, that we as
a family enjoy. That's the only sport in the world
that you can do together with your level of golf
and with her level of golf, and do it together
and just enjoy the time together.
Speaker 1: That date, if you guys level it up and say, hey,
I'm going to go for a golf trip to like
we we had one to Gray Wolf in Panorama, BC,
up on the mountains. Okay, I guess what They've got
a spa?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh, we know the spa, a golf course.
Speaker 1: This ear and there's bears and there's birds, and it's
it is a hike. Yeah, so then it becomes an
actual outdoor hiking adventure with golf clubs. I don't know,
there's a As long as you set your expectations straight,
you can very easily have fun with it.
Speaker 2: One of the things that you like to profess, David,
is talking about making golf easier and fun. Let's go there.
Sure I need these tips to bring those along with me. H.
Speaker 1: Golf is actually quite a simple game. It is. I
relate it is a lot. But at the same time, just.
Speaker 2: Get rid of your scorecard.
Speaker 1: Right, you've already said that's only step one. Friend. No,
the when you step on to a tennis court or
a ping pong table never does it end to your
mind as the ball is coming at you being served
by the other person. Okay, let me make sure that
I keep my head still as the ball is coming
towards me, that I drop my k help over here. No,
there's a flat surface that's in your hand, and there's
a round ball that's coming at you, and you think
round ball, flat surface, hit it that direction. Same with baseball.
You got a flat surface in a bat and the
ball coming at you, and then you try to connect
the two and make it go a certain direction. Ping
pong is the same thing, and the same principles apply
to golf if we don't let all of the other
stuff come in now. Don't get me wrong. That doesn't
mean that I think that all you know in depth
technical instruction is bad. There's a certain level at which
you want that technical instruction. However, if that comes into
your game too early, or or you start technicalizing. See
that's an English word is made up there. Check it
the golf swing where you don't need to. You need
to come right back down to the two feet on
either side of the ball that actually matters. There's a
flat surface, there's a round ball, and the only thing
that matters is where that flat surface is pointing when
you hit it, and the path at which it's coming
through on. Those are the only two things in the
golf that actually affect what you're doing. Yes, I realize
there's descent angle, and there's spin right, and there's a flight,
But for ninety five percent of golfers around the world,
the direction that the club face is pointing and the
way it's moving through the ball. Okay, we have to
remember that where the club face is pointing is always
where the ball is going to start. And then the
path that the club is coming through on is going
to apply right to left spin or left, right spin,
right to left or lever you know, one of the
spins either way, and it's going to spin from there,
which means somebody says, oh, well, I hit everything right. Fantastic.
I'm so glad to hear it. You're telling me that
you're consistent. Everything is going to the right. All you
have to do is spin the club in your hands
so that the face is pointing more to the left.
Do the exact same thing that you were just doing,
and then it's going to start to the left. Oh well,
it's starting to look too far to the left.
Speaker 2: Fantastic. Now we well, if your ball goes to the right,
then't aim left right right.
Speaker 1: But it's not even so much like aiming your body
left as it is. No when we start to think
round ball, our bodies can actually do that. What we
can't do is say, Okay, when I get to the top,
I'm going to try to get a little higher with
my hands, and then just as I am transitioning to
the downswing, I'm going to drop the right elbow and
tuck down. And here we can't figure that out fast
enough in the swing. But what we can figure out
is flat surface ball go that way. Yeah, And if
we start there and then just apply speed to it
and go longer and longer and longer, and try to
realize that everything else that we're doing is just applying
speed to those that two feet on either then we
can start to build our own swing around the part
of the swing that matters, the impact position, that the
hitting of the ball in a certain direction.
Speaker 2: And visualizing it, not thinking about, not thinking about the
mechanics during the swing of what you're supposed to be doing.
That's like all pre shot routine. Think about what you
need to do this step up to the ball and
think about a target somewhere else. You know, are you
one of those that likes to play target golf and
not think about just hitting the ball, but where the
ball is supposed to end up. Yes and no, let's
stay with yes for now. I want During the.
Speaker 1: Pre shot routine, when you're choosing your spot, there is
a course management part of playing where you absolutely want
to hit it or miss it in a certain area.
There's incredible amounts of strokes that can be shaved off
your game simply by picking the right place to go. However,
there is a moment at which you're thinking has to
change from where the ball is going to end up
to the task at hand, which is the only thing
you can affect, which is the ball that's in front
of you. So your target is actually the ball. All
of the pre shot routine part is you deciding where
you want to try to hit that ball, but you
can't affect where it's going to go. You can't affect
what's going to happen over there.
Speaker 2: You can get it started, but you.
Speaker 1: Can only get it started in the two feet on
either side. That matters.
Speaker 2: But is the ball the target?
Speaker 1: Absolutely it is. By the time you're hitting. The ball
is the target. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm not
aiming specifically at a corner of a bunker on the
right side of the green, but that's where that switch
has to happen. And so in that pre shot routine,
you go from Okay, I want exactly on that spot,
this is the shot that I want. This is my
interim target that I'm aiming for, and I bring everything
back down into the actual target that I can affect,
which is right in front of me, and that I
can do. And then that's the beautiful thing about the
game of golf is it's a lottery. Every time you
strike it, it's like, oh, let's see where it gets to
go this time. Oh no, I've buried myself in the
face of the bunker and now have to So yes,
I realized that's a little unconventional because there, you know,
there's some really great instructors and there's some great teaching
that through the years of of you know, the Harvey panic,
take dead aim at at where you're trying to hit it,
and I understand that, but there's this disconnect between where
the ball ends up and what we actually have to do,
and it's hundreds of yards apart, and I think it
becomes a lot easier if your actual task is hit
the thing that's in front of you as opposed to
try to connect with something that's hundreds of yards away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent, excellent, And you know you may unconventional. And
we just had Eric Alpinfels from Pinehurst is the head
instructor at Pinehurst and his book Instinct Putting where talk
about unconventional. He's talking about looking at the hole when
you're putting and not looking at the ball. Have you
ever had experience with that?
Speaker 1: I have tried it, and putting is the great mystery
of the game. It is it is look at the
hole and get it in fantastic do that? Yeah right,
you can close your eyes and put fantastic thing almost
the same thing, right right. I have over the years
struggled with the y word and I'm sorry, Yeah, that's
part of life, right, yeah, and so.
Speaker 2: Much so that you can't even see the word.
Speaker 1: No, I can't, that's the yips. But listeners that might do.
Speaker 2: Like they're driving and all of a sudden you said
the word yips.
Speaker 1: And they're like crash. I didn't want to I don't
want to be uh, I want to cause the wreck
on the I five, But no, it's that that's truth,
and you got to approach things with truth in life.
So yes, I've had I've struggled to the yips over
the years. It was once so bad when I was
in my playing days that back when you could use
long putters, it was so bad that I actually tried
pinning the long putter to my neck and bending over
and just trying to move my body in any kind
of way to get the ball going. Now it's it's
way better, uh than it used to be. In fact,
I can play golf without them now. But I strongly
believe that that the yips, the shanks, that kind of
stuff is all to do with the miscommunication between our
eyes and our body, you know, our our our head,
our head actually tilts and moves in ways where we
think we're aimed somewhere, but we're not act aimed there,
and there's a miscommunication between our eyes and our body.
But we can you know, that's a that's a topic
for another day. But yeah, I know there's there's a
there's a number of guys I know speak used the
look at the whole method for quite some time and
seem to seem to win. You know quite a number
of events doing that, and so that's fantastic. If you
can do it, fantastic, go for it.
Speaker 2: Do it. Talk again about unconventional and things that you've
brought up to me in our email exchange. You are
an advocate is the word that I want to use
for single length irons, A practitioner.
Speaker 1: I am both, okay, Keeping in mind, I don't try
to force any specific idea on anybody other than trying
to help them get what they want. What I want.
I want consistency. I want to be able to get
up to a ball, know where I'm hitting it, aim
that direction, and hit it. If that means, here's my crazy.
But if that means for me that I'm five yards
shorter with each of my irons, or five yards longer,
or if I have to play with a different grip
that's not accepted by the majority, or I have to
aim right and pull left, or I have to aim
left and pull right, it doesn't really matter to me
as long as I know that when I get to
the ball, I'm going to hit it a direction, and
I wanted to go that direction, and my best playing
in my lifetime, I was. I was averaging fourteen greens around.
I did make a lot of birdies, Yeah, I was.
I was middle of the greens. I could two putt
from everywhere and some of them would go in. So
let's call it three or four birdies around, very rarely bogies,
almost never double bogies. Certainly, like the three putts were.
Speed putting was a fortape and that consistent and knowing.
I remember being able to stand in the fairway and
be like, Okay, well there's a little gap there that
I can hit. I'm going to hit it there. That's
where I want it to go, and it would just
go there because I could do that. I believe that
the more clubs that you have in your bag that
are the same length and weight, the less variables you
have in your clubs. Okay, I know full well when
I'm playing, Okay, i have seven sets of golf clubs
in my garage. I'm crazy, and I probably need another one.
Speaker 2: And how many of them are single length?
Speaker 1: I've got two sets that single or and those are
the ones I play. Okay, keep you eye when I
say advocate, I am actually playing those. I'm playing them
in events I'm playing them in tournaments. I love them. Okay.
I have one ten club single length set which is
lob wedge to four iron, and these are both the
both these sets are a Voda Golf irons and so
those are those are all seven iron length lob wedge
through four iron. Then I have a second set which
is lob wedge through eight iron that are that are
all nine iron length, and then seven, six, five, four
are progressively longer. Okay, so let me let me just
talk about the concept here first. Any experience with it,
m when I'm playing the same length ten club seven
iron length things. There is a level of accuracy and
predictability that comes with all of the clubs that you
cannot understand until you've tried it. I mean, I have
custom fit sets of verible length clubs that are fit
to my body and my swing and fantastic and I
hit them well. But to be able to pull any
club out of your bag, that's an iron, okay, Obviously
it changes when it gets to woods and hybrids and
driver and you pull any of those irons out of
your bag, it's the exact same setup. It's the same weight,
it's the same feel, it's the same grip. The only
thing that changes is how high it's coming off the face.
And incredibly to me, once I started using them, I
documented my social media documented my first round with them
and my first shots with them. Didn't even go to
the range with them, and didn't know the yardages of them.
They're very close to your regular variable length irons. The
switch over from a yardage perspective is almost nothing to
give you to give you exact yardages and differences. Shall
we say, standard length four iron would fly about two twelve,
let's call it, and the same length fore iron will
fly two oh six, So there's about a five or
six yard difference, and it is lower because it's a
it's a lower lofted and lower spin. So there's a
consideration that has to happen. But there's an accuracy that
goes with those. So there's there's gives and takes it
with everything, but there's an accuracy that goes with those
that is unmatched with other irons that I have played
and didn't.
Speaker 2: There was no there was no process for you to
adapt to them. It just immediately worked for you.
Speaker 1: I shot seventy one the first round that I ever
played with them.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: On a course that was a mountain side course where
you have to be there's sectional greens, you know, big
curves in between significant there's significant ease in using them.
There are a couple of tough points. Okay that the
longest of the irons are touch points. That's like, yeah,
maybe there's some there definitely is some adjustment. And then
the chipping around the greens took two rounds, let's call it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I would think that the wedges would
be the hardest adjustment because you know, maybe even the
shaf are different on the wedges or not they.
Speaker 1: Differ, they are different, but because they feel like all
your other clubs, it's not notice unusual. And actually when
I go back to a standard length wedge, I find
myself bending over a lot in my back hurts or
when i'm back so as an old fort like me,
you know, child, I've got the gray hair to prove
it it's good.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, don't don't even go there.
Speaker 1: Sorry to bring that one up anyway. But the other
set that I have is kind of like the the
other adjustment of it, or or maybe the best of
both worlds. And so this is what this is the
set that I'm actually playing with regularly. Now when when
it's soft windy or I'm playing link style golf, I'll
go to the ten club same length because i want
everything low anyways. It gives you great flexibility there, keep
everything low. It's very solid. Like hitting the center of
the face is just easy. Okay. North American courses typically
you have to fly longer shots higher because you got
to carry bunkers. You got to stop it on the greens.
You may be landing onto a downslope. So the the
what the company calls a combo length set are six
clubs nine iron length and then seven, six, five, four
that get progressively longer, and so you have in your
scoring clubs that same kind of consistency. And the way
that I'm actually using them is I'm now gripping down
on the seven, the six, the five, and the four
to make them same length. Then if I need the
extra height or the extra few yards, then I will
add length in my grip. You have to be disciplined
enough to do it. And now I've got the big
grips on there too, So it feels good no matter
how high you are on the shaft. But there is
definitely some accuracy that leaves as soon as you length
then out those four or five ins and it's not
I mean, I don't get me wrong, It's not a lot,
but it's noticeable. And so then I have to ask myself,
if I'm sitting there at two oh five, do I
want to hit a hard five high or do I
want to pick that spot up the middle with the
forearm that I know is going to go that direction
and just and just hit that shot. And so I've
I've I've found myself. I had to play with I say,
I had to. I had to play with my my
variable set just before a trip because I had all
the clubs packed up, but I still wanted to play.
So I went I would played, and you know, I
found things like the gap wedge. You know, I'd stand
over it and be like, this doesn't it doesn't feel right.
It doesn't feel like a pitching wedge or a nine iron.
It doesn't feel like a wedge. There was some unusual
stuff for me when I went back that wasn't there
with with with the same length system. So the way
the way I explain it to people now is the
more of the exact same waiting and length clubs that
you have in the bag, the better you're going to
be for accuracy. But you have to understand that there
are some trade offs. The you know, the further you
go in either direction from the seven iron, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I played. I played single length irons for a bit,
but I just never could get my head into it
and be comfortable to the point where I'm like, yeah,
this is so much better than what I was doing before.
You also mentioned to me about you're now trying to
play golf left handed. Yes, and you are a right
handed golfer.
Speaker 1: I am absolutely a right handed golfer. I've played thirty
years agolf right handed. And what I produced a self
paced video course earlier this year that was talking that
that that helps with ball striking consistency. It's it works
from the ball back from the two feet that we
were talking about, works from their backwards, allowing you to
build your own swing or how your body's going to
get back to that point, and it's yeah, you know,
I figured, hey, it's it's simple, it's easy to follow.
Bunch of people through it said hey, this is great, fantastic,
and I'm like, well, I want to know what it's like.
And I can't do it because I already know how
to play golf right handed. So I'm like, hey, stupid idea.
Why not try to learn the game all over again
left handed? Okay?
Speaker 2: So now you said you were a baseball player as
a kid. Were you a switch hitter?
Speaker 1: I was not a switch hitter, but I did play
hockey left handed. Okay, so I hold the hockey stick
left handed. But if you look at my left handed
swing is not pretty. It's just it's not good golfing. Okay.
But then, so what I did is I said, well,
screw this. I'm going to say and I'm saying this
publicly now see to you that I'm doing this until
I break par left handed. It might take a while,
might take a while. I have in production right now,
just about ready to launch later this week as of
the recording. I know the publish a publication is going
to come out a little bit. But I my first
ever round left handed, without going to the range or anything.
I rented a set of left handed clubs and went
out and played and documented it, scores and everything. All
the strokes hit five balls out of bounds on one
hole in the same spot with a giant place there
was some good stuff, but there's some really really ugly stuff,
and so I've been I've been working on it daily
since then, and I'm gonna document it publicly. You'll be
able to go to the channel and see the left
handed series and how it's progressing. But some really interesting
things came up, and in our pre chat before this podcast,
we're talking about, you know, the mental game and how
you can eliminate strokes, even my first round left handed
to my second round left handed, changing my thinking to
There was one shot in particular. It was on the
tenth hole of my second round left handed, and I
had one hundred and seventy yards to the hole, but
in order to get to the hole, I had to
carry a desert area and some pot bunkers and really
some death zones for your scorecard. But to the left
of the green was a big open fairway area and
I've never aimed there before in my life right handed.
It's just not somewhere I would have even thought. But
as I'm standing there in the fairway, I'm like, well,
if I can just hit it into that big fairway section,
I could chip, I could put from there, I could
get it up onto the green and I'd make bogie
instead of risking a double or triple bogie instead of
the part. And I hit it. I hit it over
to the left and I hit it into the big
ferry part and I actually got up and down for
par Wow, And I thought, how interesting that just changing
how I'm thinking to being like, no, no, I don't
even care where the pin is. I care where the
biggest part of the fairway is. And because I don't
even know how to hit a bunker shot left handed,
yet I don't want to get in there, I can't
get out, so I have to stay in the fairway.
How can I stay in the fairway? So sometimes that
meant hitting eight iron instead of five iron and just
playing thirty yards short. Sometimes it meant aiming like absolutely
the other direction of the water and then having a
longer shot in. And now I'm starting to think of
the game differently from the people that I'm trying to help,
perspectives like, well, how do we help them? Well, you
have to aim for your your ability always. So it's
so interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds fascinating. So tell us about where we
can find you online? What is a big swing kings
dot com?
Speaker 1: Yes, you can see there in the hat. If it's
on video or if it's own voice, it's Big Swing
Kings and it's everywhere at Big Swing Kings. So website
is Big Swing Kings, the YouTube, the TikTok, the instagram,
the the everything.
Speaker 2: You give online lessons to.
Speaker 1: Online lessons, Yeah, through through skillstand through the website. You
can book online lessons with me. You can even submit
your swing for free and I will roast it. I mean,
help you while also making fun content. But no, and
that's the beautiful thing about golf is we all know
that we suck. It doesn't matter what level you're at.
You can watch the top pros on a bad day.
We all know that we suck. And that's what makes
it so much fun is that we can make fun
of ourselves and we can see our errors in life.
It's like, it's like how we should think about life.
It's like, ah, we mess up all sorts of places,
and we're okay looking at ourselves and saying, yeah, you
know what, that actually does need to change. And that's
what I love so much about helping people in golfers
that we all know that we need help.
Speaker 2: We all yeah, mar Martin Chuck said you can't embarrass me.
I play golf exactly, so you can't say anything that
will embarrass me.
Speaker 1: I have missed a two foot putt to win a match,
like it's there.
Speaker 2: You should be looking at the hole.
Speaker 1: No, I need one of those balanced lie angle balanced putter.
That's the newest trend, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Don't get me for not for golf smarter listeners, No, no, no, listen.
We've been on lie angle balance. We've been on the
Lab golf putter for since twenty nineteen. Huge advocate. Absolutely
love those butters. So don't cross me here. This is
not the time because we're about to say goodbye, David.
This has been a lot of fun. Thank you so
much for joining us today.
Speaker 1: I actually do have a Lab butter in the bag
at the moment, so I can't say too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course you do. Everyone should and probably will soon.
Oh my god, David, thanks a lot, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you friend.