WEBVTT 1 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:20.559 Hello, and welcome to Batflips and Nerds, the Baseball Podcast 2 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.480 with a British twist. I am your host, Ben Carter, 3 00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:27.239 for a very special episode, not least because I have 4 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:29.079 the main man, Russell Easom here with me. 5 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:29.839 How are you, Russell? 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.960 I'm doing good, Ben, I'm doing good. Yeah. I'm looking 7 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:34.439 forward to this, but I think you might be a 8 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:35.200 little bit more. 9 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:38.159 I am very much looking forward to this because we've 10 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:40.840 got no one else but the man himself, Clint hurd Or, 11 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.840 joining us to chat a little bit at baseball. It's 12 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:45.600 a privilege, as you say, as a Rockies fan. Clint 13 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:46.799 is someone who I've looked up to you for a 14 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:48.399 long time, so it's great to get a chance to 15 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.079 have a conversation. For those that don't know, Cliff has 16 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:54.079 having an extraordinary career in baseball and life in baseball. 17 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:57.679 Really played for four different franchises across a ten year 18 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:02.200 career and obviously managed two French to over twenty five 19 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.120 hundred games as a manager at that and we were 20 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:06.560 just discussing before we started recording that he is back 21 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.319 at spring training in Scotts, Arizona, where the Colorado Rockies again. 22 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:11.879 Do you know what year in baseball. This is for 23 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:13.280 you now, Clint, how many it's been. 24 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.280 It's a big number, Ben, it's number fifty five. 25 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:17.599 Wow. 26 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:18.079 Zero. 27 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:19.719 Yeah, that's extraordinary. 28 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.840 Well, congratulations, that's an impressive effort. 29 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:24.760 But thanks so much for joining us. How are you? 30 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:28.040 Thank you for coming on healthy and happy, probably better 31 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:32.319 than I deserve. And I do appreciate you all adjusting 32 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.120 the time with me and for me today. 33 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.519 Thank you very much, No problem, no problem, it's great 34 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:37.879 to chat. 35 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:41.560 I think we'll get into all parts of your career 36 00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:43.879 and other things as part of this conversation, but I 37 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:46.799 thought we might start with one of your more recent projects, 38 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:50.200 which is your new book. I know it's only been 39 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.959 released very recently, and I know that that was a 40 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:55.120 labor of love and passion. I think I heard on 41 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:58.120 a different podcast you're talking about the trials and tribulations 42 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.920 you went through to get this thing way you to publishing. 43 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:03.480 I'd be interested to hear what the process of writing 44 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:05.680 that was, like. I know you write every way yourself. 45 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:08.039 What was it like to go back for your your 46 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.680 life and career in baseball and put together some thoughts 47 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:12.280 and huddlisms as you call them. 48 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:16.039 It was you know, what. It was therapeutic in some ways. 49 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:22.479 It was enlightening in some ways to you know, re 50 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:26.639 visit uh some good times, some hard times, some sad times, 51 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.800 some fantastic times, and then make sure that I had 52 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:32.759 I had the facts right by calling people up and 53 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.879 revisiting some of the sequence of events. Fact check does work. 54 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:38.639 Spell check does work. But you need to talk to 55 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:40.960 people when you're talking about people, especially when you're talking 56 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:44.120 about relationships with people. And I think we managed everything 57 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:47.960 up very very well. And it basically was the book 58 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:51.800 that became a labor of love. It's just trying to 59 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.199 share experience, strength and hope. It's not that I've known 60 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:55.759 it all. Matter of fact, I didn't know a whole lot. 61 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:58.080 I've learned a lot in the hard way. But I 62 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.879 thought it was a good times on a challenge from 63 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:02.599 a good friend of mine, John Gordon, who was a 64 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:07.879 very very well known inspirational writer and speaker has seventeen 65 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.199 best selling books. He basically just challenged me to write 66 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:13.599 my own book. I was looking for an easier, softer way. 67 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:16.360 I wanted a co author to write the book with me, 68 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:19.560 somebody who had written books, who would do all the 69 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.240 hard work and I just spit out brilliance from time 70 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.439 to time and share these stories, let him document everything. 71 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.000 But it just didn't work out that way, and John 72 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.319 told me Clinton, you need to share your own story 73 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:34.759 with your own words, because I think it has value 74 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.120 and I think it will help. So I took upon 75 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:39.759 the task and it probably took me a little over 76 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:43.039 nine months from the time I typed the first word 77 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.199 to the time I type the last, and then a 78 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:50.080 couple more months of you know, putting an index, putting acknowledgments, 79 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:54.199 in coordinating some endorsements and things. So almost a year 80 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.639 and it's out now. It seems to have some good traction. 81 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.520 I've gotten a lot, a lot of lots of reviews. 82 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:05.039 I think anytime a book can make you laugh and cry, 83 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.719 you know to do both, and that's an enjoyable read. 84 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:11.240 So so far, still good. 85 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:13.199 I'm glad to hear that. 86 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:15.879 I did have a check before we started recording, and 87 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.720 the book is available on Amazon here in the UK, 88 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:20.519 so fans who are on this side of the pond 89 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:22.600 are able to get hold of it and check that out. 90 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.480 I would recommend doing so. There are some amazing stories 91 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:34.120 from Well Today as well. You mentioned during Spring training 92 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.439 with the Colorado Rockies. I'm fascinating what does your role 93 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.879 look like nowadays? How involved are you with the team. 94 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:41.600 What does spring training number fifty look like for. 95 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:42.120 You at the moment? 96 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.480 My job title is a special assistant to the general manager, 97 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:52.879 and as I went through baseball, I ran into a 98 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.120 bunch of different special assistants to the general manager. It 99 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:00.040 seemed to be a role that was somewhat defined. You 100 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.680 could bounce around a lot of different ways. You could 101 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:04.120 work in the minor leagues, you could work in the 102 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.079 big leagues. You could do some scouting, you could work 103 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.040 some player development, and you basically did things that maybe 104 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.399 the general manager didn't want to do, or to help him, 105 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.680 provide him with a different lens at the sea things. 106 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.079 So I was actually retired for two years. After I 107 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.160 was fired by the Rockies in nineteen I had a 108 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.879 little downtime and I thought things through and realized that 109 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:27.480 I was going to get paid for two years to 110 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.639 not work, which had never happened to me before in 111 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:32.319 my life. And I thought I'd move upon it with 112 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.120 two young children at home, still in high school. So 113 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.360 the Bill of November I stopped. I stopped working the 114 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.519 middle of March, the world stopped working. COVID hit and 115 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.439 everything was shut down. So I was able to homeschool 116 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.240 a couple of kids, spend a couple of years at home, 117 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.720 and then the Rockies called and asked me to basically 118 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:51.800 spend time in our player development system. It's what I've 119 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:55.199 done a lot of I'm helping grow kids, grow the 120 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.680 young players up, helping them grow the young managers and 121 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:02.439 coaches up, and report to our our general manager and 122 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:04.439 the people at the major league level on you know, 123 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:07.560 who's looking good, who's showing improvement, Maybe who do we 124 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:12.399 need to talk about in a little different venue. It's 125 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.360 been very rewarding. Our farm system has become one of 126 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.439 our strongest assets, even though our major league record has 127 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.920 been really rough the last two seasons. We have developed 128 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:25.240 a lot of young talent. We've got more young pitchers coming, 129 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:27.720 more young players coming. We saw some of them last year, 130 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.959 two Gold Glovers to bar and Doyle. We saw some 131 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.040 big arms in the bullpen show up. We got more 132 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.120 guys coming. So that's been my role. I work about 133 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:41.600 two weeks a month, which is really really cool, up 134 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:43.480 and down the minor league system, up and down the 135 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.560 Mynor League system, a trip to the Dominican I do 136 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.959 some instruction league work, so all baseball related. My finger's 137 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.360 still on the pultse of all things Rockies. But I 138 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:53.879 also still have time to get home and spend with 139 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.560 my our daughter Maddie and who's still at home, and 140 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:58.240 my wife Carlo. 141 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:00.360 Well, that sounds deal. 142 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:02.160 And you've got me fired up about the Rockies, just 143 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.480 with your with your small tipbits there on the future 144 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.639 looking bright that that is what we want to hear, 145 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:09.759 I think, and I maybe we can take it all 146 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.800 the way back to the beginning, really off your professional 147 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:14.639 career at least, and maybe even just before that. I 148 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:17.680 saw that that maybe things could have been very different 149 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:21.199 on your journey, because I believe you had the offer 150 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:22.800 to play college. 151 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:25.399 Football and baseball at the University of Miami rather than 152 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:25.920 turn pro. 153 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.519 How strongly did you consider pursuing that path rather than 154 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.040 than going straight into the pros. 155 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.319 I probably didn't consider as much as my parents did. 156 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:36.879 My dad was not an agent by any means, but 157 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:42.800 he was very committed to leveraging the best opportunity for me. 158 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.000 We didn't know when I'd get drafted, what round, what pick, 159 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:52.160 but the football scholarship combined with the baseball scholarship. I 160 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.839 should say there were two teams that would let me 161 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.360 play both sports, the University of Virginia University of Miami. 162 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:00.360 I had a lot of individual teams offer either football 163 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.879 or baseball. The most interesting concept or opportunity I had 164 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.839 was I had an academic scholarship offer to Harvard University. 165 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:12.680 My mother, my mother, from a very early age, trussed 166 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:15.240 the importance of grades, end of learning, and of reading, 167 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.399 and to this day, I'm still an avid reader. I 168 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:20.920 still want to learn. Part one of the chapters in 169 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.439 the book Hurdleisms is about a white belt mentality being 170 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:26.399 a lifelong learner. But my dad wanted to make sure 171 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.199 we had options and try to leverage those options and 172 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.919 the best of his ability, so to play college football 173 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.159 and baseball. It was probably real until a point, it 174 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:38.480 wasn't real to me because since the time I was five, 175 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:40.279 I wanted to be a big league ball player. I 176 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:42.639 wanted to be won a World Series. I wanted to 177 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.200 you know, I wanted to do that. And when the 178 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:48.919 offer came, and the offer was significant enough, there was 179 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.240 a no brainer. We were going to go to baseball. 180 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.720 And so like how different was that world claimed? 181 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.679 Because I obviously Ben and I have we've been following 182 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:02.080 baseball for fifteen ty years. The what was the draft 183 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:04.759 like back in that day, back when you went in, 184 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:07.639 you went in the first round? Was there was there anything? 185 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.240 How long did it take you to actually know that 186 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.000 it's happened. It's not being released on social media in 187 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:12.919 an instant, is it? 188 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:14.519 No? 189 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:16.840 It wasn't you know what it's It's almost like I 190 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.559 feel like it was in black and white. It wasn't 191 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:23.799 even in color. It was so long ago. Scouts would 192 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:25.960 see you play, you would fill out a note card 193 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.279 for them. They would hold the note card. Every once 194 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:30.960 in a while you would get a phone call on 195 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.679 a rotary phone from a scout. He'd pick your brain. 196 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:35.679 Some of them would actually show up at your house 197 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.320 and ask a few questions. But the day of the draft, 198 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:41.879 I was told by there was three clubs that let 199 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:43.559 me know that there's a good chance that I would 200 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.480 go in the first round, and if I did, there'd 201 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:48.639 be a follow up phone call. Well. One of the 202 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.159 teams was the Oakland Athletics. They were picking last. This 203 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:53.840 was in the seventies with the Oakland Athletics were one 204 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:58.559 of the best teams in baseball. Charlie Finley is still 205 00:09:58.600 --> 00:09:59.840 on the team. At that time, he was kind of 206 00:09:59.879 --> 00:10:02.440 an nonsense owners so that the scout told me, hey, look, 207 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.559 we drafting the first round. Here's my number. You call 208 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.919 me and the offer's twenty five thousand dollars. That's it. 209 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:11.279 That's all we got. So it was kind of a 210 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:12.039 booboo lip. 211 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:12.440 You know. 212 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:14.519 It was kind of sad because you work your whole life, 213 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:15.919 you think maybe I'm gonna do in the first round. 214 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.039 A guy calls you, yep today, you know, if we drafted, 215 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:19.440 here's this is all you're going to get, and you 216 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:20.960 got to call us to let us another you're taking 217 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:24.159 it or not. So fortunately I wasn't drafted by them. 218 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:26.480 I was drafted by the Royals, the ninth picking the nation, 219 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:30.559 and after some negotiations by my dad, you know, we 220 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:32.639 found a common ground. We both believed it was a 221 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:35.279 fair deal. But it was a rotary phone call. And 222 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.320 then it was the scout coming over to my house 223 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.960 a day later, and I was sitting down having pizza, 224 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:43.440 you know, with my sisters, my mom and dad, just 225 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.799 you know, six or seven people. It was nothing like 226 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:50.279 the you know, extravaganza that it's turned in today, it's 227 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.440 truly you know, it's a celebration, it's an event. We 228 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:55.559 do it over the All Star break. Now it's it's 229 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.919 a it's a big profile deal. But back in the day, guys, 230 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.679 it was not that big of a deal. What for 231 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.639 us it was because it was still the culmination about, 232 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:05.360 you know, a dream since you had in the backyard 233 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:06.039 since you were five. 234 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:08.600 No, I was just going to say that, like from 235 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.279 from some bios that I've read, that like the Kansas 236 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.159 City Scout with Bill Fishtt, with somebody that you were 237 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:17.679 quite friends when the family was friends with anyway, because 238 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:19.679 you'd known him for a while, so I guess it 239 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.600 felt was he the one you did know the best 240 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:22.960 as well? 241 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.559 And did that play like anything into that conversation. 242 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:28.679 It didn't hurt by any means. Bill had seen me 243 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:30.720 play for three years. He actually came to the first 244 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.200 game I played at high school. I was a sophomore, 245 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.799 and that at that time sophomore was tenth grade. We 246 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.879 had a senior catcher, Waldo Williams was an All American 247 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.159 football player a high school end up going to Florida State. 248 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.360 Behind the plate, so all the scouts were going to 249 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.320 see Waldo. I happened to be a freshman, a sophomore 250 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.720 on the team, which didn't happen very often in those days, 251 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:52.039 and I caught his eye in tenth grade and eventually 252 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.279 he would have I think what they call impromptu workouts 253 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.559 or whether they were whether they were legal or not, 254 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:00.440 I don't know, but he'd say, Hey, meet me at 255 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.039 Coco rock Ledge Baseball Park and I'll throw you some VP. 256 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.679 And what kid wouldn't want to go hit VP? You 257 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:07.600 know from a big league scout. So we must have 258 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.799 done that a dozen times. He knew my mom, knew 259 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:13.399 my dad by far and away, the closest person in 260 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.080 the professional game that we knew. So it was very 261 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.720 sweet that he was the guy that they drafted us. 262 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.159 He was the one that was able to come over 263 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:22.720 because we all kind of celebrated the success. He put 264 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:24.679 the work in. We put the work in, you know, 265 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.399 we had put it together as a team, and we'd 266 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.320 see where it going. Funny part was a few years later, 267 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:31.759 I was traded to Cincinnati and Bill Fisher was actually 268 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.440 the pitching coach on the Cincinnati Reds at that time, 269 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.799 so we got to rekindle our friendship. 270 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.360 That's amazing, awesomet I know one thing that happened very 271 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:43.360 soon after you drafted, was was the. 272 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:44.679 Sports Illustrated cover. 273 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:47.519 You know, that's one of the things that I'm sure 274 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:49.399 comes up in and a lot of the conversations that 275 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.360 you have and the front cover of that nineteen seventy 276 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.720 six was it outing this year's phenome on the front 277 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:00.200 cover with your photo? There must have been I mean 278 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:02.600 at that time that was the equivalent of going viral 279 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.320 on social media, right. There must have been enormous pressure 280 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.440 on your shoulders and a weight of expectation that came 281 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.840 with that. Did you feel at the time, looking back now, 282 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.080 did it have any effect on you? Or were you 283 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.399 just you know, excited to play ball and ready to 284 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:16.360 show what you could do. 285 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.519 All of the above? I think I was excited to 286 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.679 play ball. We had been given a heads up. The 287 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:27.679 SI group had been around the spring training and taking 288 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.000 pictures of various young players that they'll never tell you 289 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.440 it's going to be on the cover normally until you're 290 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:37.080 on the cover, but they let us know that that 291 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:40.919 when that addition would come out. And one of the 292 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:44.399 funnier things that happened to me was they took my picture. 293 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:46.799 They took a picture of Willie Wilson, Rich Gaiale, three 294 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.240 guys on our team, a bunch of other young players. 295 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.559 But every morning, on the way to the ballpark, I 296 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.480 would stop at a seven eleven and I would get 297 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:58.639 a quarter milk and a honey bun. It's like a 298 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:02.559 big miscuit, a big don't every morning, and normally the 299 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:04.639 same kid was working there in the morning, he's about 300 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:08.120 my age. Well, this morning I walk in and I 301 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.480 put the honeybun down, the milk on the counter. I 302 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:14.559 look at him. He looks at me. He looks down 303 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.840 at the counter where there's three magazines. They didn't have 304 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.360 a magazine rap back then. You know, you go in 305 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.799 the convenience stores. Now there's fifty magazines. They had three magazines, Newsweek, 306 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:29.600 Life and Sports Illustrated. So he looks down. I do 307 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:31.159 not even watching what he's looking at it, and he 308 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:32.799 looks back at me. He looks down again. So the 309 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:35.120 second time he looks down, I look down. I see 310 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.480 my picture on the cover of the Sports Illustrated. I 311 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:40.879 look at him. He looks at me. I freak out. 312 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.480 I walk out of the store, no milk, no honey bun. 313 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.519 I get in my car and I just sat there 314 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:50.080 for a couple of minutes, thinking, Okay, something's changing. I 315 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.840 didn't even know what it was, but I knew something 316 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:57.519 was going to be different. So I don't think at 317 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.799 the time I realized how much I was going to 318 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.039 internalize maybe some pressure, or try and do more than 319 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:08.679 I was capable of doing to validate the fact that 320 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.519 I was on the cover of a national magazine at 321 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:15.960 the age of twenty years old. I go to a clubhouse, 322 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.279 you know, an hour forty five minutes later, and there's 323 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.360 guys who've been playing ten years the big leagues that 324 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:22.679 have never had their picture on the cover of anything, 325 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.039 and now this young kid walks in as a rookie. 326 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:30.159 He's on the cover Sports Illustrated. And you know, there 327 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.440 wasn't bad blood in the clubhouse. I think guys were 328 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:35.080 just kind of like, really like, what's he done? But 329 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.519 when you get out within the league throughout the rest 330 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.720 of the season and you're playing other teams and guys 331 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.480 who've been around and you're this young kid, it got 332 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:46.399 a little dicey at times. I tried, probably to do 333 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.960 more than I was capable of doing again at times 334 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.279 to validate you know that. I won't say that that 335 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.279 was the reason, but I didn't. I lead a lot 336 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:01.200 of lessons, and I think that's the one thing that 337 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:05.039 I'm most proud of is regardless of how I handle 338 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:07.799 a good bad or and different lessons learned from it, yes, 339 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.600 and then to be able to recreate a new narrative 340 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.320 from it because I really never was a phenom playing. 341 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:18.799 I've never been a feno, managing or coaching, but I 342 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:20.799 was able to take that career and turn it into 343 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.679 a coach and a manager and a person now who's 344 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.399 been fifty years in the game and still hopefully providing 345 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.159 some impact and some influence and just trying to help 346 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:30.960 people on their way. 347 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.399 He kind of preempted my next question a little bit there. 348 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:36.559 I'm interested to know what you said that it did 349 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.360 have a big impact on kind of rest of your 350 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.240 career after you feel done playing. But what I guess 351 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.720 what were the specific lessons or the biggest lessons I 352 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.519 suppose that you took from having been there, done that, 353 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:48.360 played the game at the highest level that you then 354 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.919 took into your philosophy coaching, whether that be you know, 355 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.279 helping out young hitters, and more stuff to do with 356 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.039 technique and the ways to be a successful hitch at 357 00:16:58.039 --> 00:16:58.679 the major league level. 358 00:16:58.720 --> 00:16:59.960 But also I guess later. 359 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.279 In your career as a manager, as a clubhouse leader, 360 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:04.559 as someone who had to galvanize a whole locker room, 361 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:07.519 you know, having gone through struggles at the major league level, 362 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:09.240 having been on the front cover of s I all 363 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.640 of this other stuff. What were the main things that 364 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.839 kind of toold you up to be really successful in 365 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.000 your post playing career. 366 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:19.240 Well, I think, you know, Rustin Benz, just to give 367 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.880 you you probably got the back notes. But there was 368 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:24.920 a lot of other challenges throughout my life that I 369 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:28.279 that I had to meet, some self created. I was 370 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:31.039 divorced twice and I'm not proud of that, but I've 371 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:32.839 you know, there's a lot of collatteral damage that comes 372 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:37.720 with divorce. There's a lot of emotions, and unfortunately I 373 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.519 was the common fabric in both of those. By going 374 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.279 through failed marriages and maybe not producing on the field 375 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.119 like a lot of people think you should. I tried 376 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.160 to find ways to numb the pain, and I actually 377 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:58.440 drank myself into becoming an alcoholic, and it was a 378 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.839 life that I was living in disgise a lot of 379 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:05.319 times because a lot of people never probably knew the 380 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:09.359 pain or the sometimes embarrassment that I wasn't what I 381 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.279 should have been in the eyes with so many other people. 382 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:13.839 And my parents have been married their whole life. My 383 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.279 dad's ninety one, my mother's eighty nine. They've been married 384 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:18.599 going to be sixty years. And I can't even have 385 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.880 two marriages that add up to like fifteen or ten 386 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:24.200 or whatever it was. So you feel that you're trying 387 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.920 to coach. Then you're done playing. You weren't probably what 388 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:28.920 everybody thought you should have been as a player. Now 389 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.759 what can you be as a coach? No idea about 390 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:33.920 managing that happened down the road. But there was a 391 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:38.839 lot of opportunities for me to learn from mistakes, to 392 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.319 seek help from others, and then to take responsibility for 393 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.000 my actions, not make excuses. All these things add up 394 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.240 the perfect coaching lessons in a lot of ways, because 395 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.480 as my players got to realize over time, there wasn't 396 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:55.319 a whole lot they could bring into me as a 397 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.519 coach or a manager that I hadn't walk through in 398 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.680 some degree or some level, whether on the field or 399 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.079 off the field, and at least more often not. I 400 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:05.119 can tell hey, I'm not sure what's going to work 401 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:06.960