Speaker 1: Welcome to Backing Your Leadership.
Speaker 2: I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.
Speaker 1: And Lorenzo. On this episode, we are finishing up the
Speaker 1: series we've been doing for the last five weeks on
Speaker 1: kind of going through the backlog of listener questions that
Speaker 1: have been suggested to us, just kind of things that
Speaker 1: never made it to the front because there were other
Speaker 1: things to talk about that were that were important. We've
Speaker 1: had a lot of great conversations over the last five
Speaker 1: weeks talking about this stuff, and on today's episode, there's
Speaker 1: there's one question left that I want to go over
Speaker 1: because I think it is I think it's important, especially
Speaker 1: as a person moves up in their leadership career. I
Speaker 1: think this is this is more likely to be a
Speaker 1: problem when a person is further along in their career
Speaker 1: than when a person is just starting out. The question
Speaker 1: came from a listener who says that basically they have
Speaker 1: a tough time with the amount of digital communication that
Speaker 1: is being asked of them. That they're they're used to
Speaker 1: talking to people in person, whether it be over a
Speaker 1: video call or you know, actually a conversation in person,
Speaker 1: and they've moved into a leadership role and now so
Speaker 1: much more of their communication is done via email or
Speaker 1: Slack or message, you know, whatever the cert whatever the
Speaker 1: the app is, that is the app of the day,
Speaker 1: all these different things, and they they find themselves feeling
Speaker 1: like they're being miss misinterpreted, or that people are uh
Speaker 1: are are not. They're having a problem with what they're
Speaker 1: saying over those those apps or those messages because they
Speaker 1: feel like their their intention is being lost in the
Speaker 1: in the context. And I think it's a real concern
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. And I know people over
Speaker 1: the years who have virtually stopped communicating digitally and we'll
Speaker 1: just pick up the phone and call people because they
Speaker 1: just don't want this to happen. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: necessarily solution in the age that we're in. You have
Speaker 1: to be able to use these tools effectively, but but
Speaker 1: it can come back to bite you if you don't
Speaker 1: use them correctly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a real thing. I've gotten caught up in
Speaker 3: it myself sometimes, and then I've I've been in situations
Speaker 3: where you know, maybe I've responded to something, you know,
Speaker 3: via text message or email or something, and then I immediately
Speaker 3: get a phone call from someone and they're just like
Speaker 3: they're just like, oh, hey, you know, and it's like,
Speaker 3: oh no, no, it's not even what I meant, you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean, like, it definitely is I think the
Speaker 3: speed of which things happen this day and age, and
Speaker 3: the speed of which decisions happen, because I really think
Speaker 3: a lot about this, like what is the difference over
Speaker 3: the last couple of decades when it comes to.
Speaker 2: How we communicate?
Speaker 3: And why do we have so many different platforms and
Speaker 3: ways and you know, things that overlap themselves. I can
Speaker 3: send the same digital message via seven different ways, you know.
Speaker 2: Uh, And it's like why, Well, I think a big
Speaker 2: part of that.
Speaker 3: Is because so many decisions are happening in the speed
Speaker 3: to make the decisions has changed quite a bit over
Speaker 3: the decades. And I think that's that's something that is
Speaker 3: not going to go away anytime soon. And I think,
Speaker 3: you know, the best, you know, the best potential outcome
Speaker 3: is that we have less things to use. Everybody aligns
Speaker 3: on the same communication vehicles because then it's much easier
Speaker 3: to manage. But it doesn't change the fact that this
Speaker 3: skill and this capability and this understanding of how to
Speaker 3: how to send digital communication is going to be critical
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of things that are being done
Speaker 3: now in technology day even help to craft messaging. And
Speaker 3: then there are things that you've even seen generationally, and
Speaker 3: I'm an example of one of those things, which I
Speaker 3: saw the other day was like how different you know,
Speaker 3: how how different generations you know, communicate via digital And
Speaker 3: one of the things that they say, like millennials do
Speaker 3: and I'm guilty of this, is they type L O
Speaker 3: L on everything. Right, It's just a it's a way
Speaker 3: of softening whatever the message is. It's a way of
Speaker 3: letting somebody know like, yeah, I'm responding, but it don't
Speaker 3: take this serial or you know, like it's not a
Speaker 3: you know, it's like if something was to happen and
Speaker 3: I just say thanks, that can come across as you know,
Speaker 3: like like I don't know, like condescending. It can come
Speaker 3: across as like sarcastic, I guess, or I could say
Speaker 3: thanks Lol, it seems softer, right, like like it doesn't
Speaker 3: seem like it's so like there are things that I
Speaker 3: already read in this article that I do that are
Speaker 3: just things that I didn't even really realize that I
Speaker 3: was doing. But these are things that I think are
Speaker 3: important as we all get more and more comfortable with
Speaker 3: a style of communication that gives absolutely no nuance at all,
Speaker 3: right to thoughts, to feelings, to joking around that type
Speaker 3: of thing. So I think it's definitely something that we
Speaker 3: can continue to talk about. And I think that that leaders,
Speaker 3: especially as you continue your career, you spend more time
Speaker 3: doing this than less time. It's really important that you
Speaker 3: get good at it right for sure.
Speaker 1: For sure, you know, I think I think that if
Speaker 1: the context of this of this question is about you know,
Speaker 1: lowering the likelihood of miscommunication, maintaining a high level of clarity,
Speaker 1: because you know, clarity is so important in terms of
Speaker 1: making sure that you know, if you're a leader of people,
Speaker 1: that you and your employees are on the same page
Speaker 1: or with what the expectations are. Uh And and I
Speaker 1: think that the different ways of communicating, you know, they
Speaker 1: they can muddy the waters if they're not used correctly.
Speaker 1: And so you know, one of the one of the
Speaker 1: pieces of advice that that I always I got from
Speaker 1: a leader once that I that I really value was
Speaker 1: that if if you wouldn't, if you wouldn't be comfortable
Speaker 1: with whatever you're about to type being displayed on the
Speaker 1: JumboTron in Times square, then don't type it, because if
Speaker 1: that's the litmus test, that that's the kind of the bar,
Speaker 1: then significantly less things would be sent digitally. Right, you'd
Speaker 1: pick up the phone and call somebody, or you'd wait
Speaker 1: till you were with them face to face. You know,
Speaker 1: the things that belong in let's let's start with, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the most common start with email. The things
Speaker 1: that belong in email can communications. They should be They
Speaker 1: shouldn't be misinterpretable at all. You should be able to
Speaker 1: send an email to ten different people and then ask
Speaker 1: them to tell you what was said. There shouldn't be
Speaker 1: any variation between what they respond back with because what
Speaker 1: you've put is purely factual. There's not a a hint
Speaker 1: or an element of subjectivity or or emotion or you know,
Speaker 1: sarcasm or any you know, if you're trying to lighten
Speaker 1: up your emails as a leader with l ols or
Speaker 1: jokes or whatever that is, then that implies that what
Speaker 1: was said first in the email doesn't belong in an
Speaker 1: email to begin with, because there shouldn't be anything to
Speaker 1: lighten up. There shouldn't be anything to soften, you know,
Speaker 1: it should just be a kind of a factual communication.
Speaker 1: And then there are other methods you have of communicating
Speaker 1: that that might be you know that are that are
Speaker 1: better than email. When it comes to those things, whether
Speaker 1: it be a video call if you have a remote team,
Speaker 1: or an actual phone call or waiting till you're in
Speaker 1: person to explain something. An email could be a recap
Speaker 1: of a conversation you already had, so there's no way
Speaker 1: to misinterpret it. It's just kind of like, hey, just
Speaker 1: make sure we're on the same page. I do that often.
Speaker 1: I'll have an hour long conference call with a team
Speaker 1: of people, and then I'll send a follow up email,
Speaker 1: you know, on after the call, like just to make
Speaker 1: sure we're all on the same page. This is what
Speaker 1: I heard, This is what my responsibility is going forward,
Speaker 1: like my homework to do for until the next meeting.
Speaker 1: This is what somebody else is doing. And it's not
Speaker 1: in a very factual way, almost bullet point way, so
Speaker 1: that so that people have kind of like a record
Speaker 1: or you know, the meeting minutes, if you will. But
Speaker 1: but no one could look at that and think, oh,
Speaker 1: Chris has a negative intent when it comes to this,
Speaker 1: I might get something wrong. I might have put a
Speaker 1: responsibility on one person where it belongs to somebody else.
Speaker 1: But but that could be corrected, right like you respond,
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's this person, not this person. That's fine.
Speaker 1: No one's gonna get offended by that. They're just going
Speaker 1: to correct it and move on. If a person has
Speaker 1: the ability or even the potential of misinterpreting something where
Speaker 1: they think that that you either are angry with them
Speaker 1: or or annoyed with them, or stand offish with them,
Speaker 1: or that the relationship isn't where it needs to be,
Speaker 1: then that thing shouldn't belong in an in an email communication.
Speaker 1: It should belong in a conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think it's a great call out.
Speaker 3: And I'm you know, I'm a big fan of of.
Speaker 2: Being like, you know, meetings that could have been an email.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know what I mean, because it's it's there's
Speaker 3: only certain things that you can do and discuss when
Speaker 3: you're face to face, And I think that's an important
Speaker 3: call out. So, like, there's there's a lot of things
Speaker 3: that can be done digital, there's a lot of things
Speaker 3: that you can communicate. There's a lot of things that
Speaker 3: you can do on informing. There's questions that you can
Speaker 3: ask there's a lot that you can do in the
Speaker 3: digital space, in the digital world, and so and and
Speaker 3: and the speed of which you know, I can send something.
Speaker 3: And again, like I can just tell you in my
Speaker 3: own habits that I tell my teams. I'm like, if
Speaker 3: it's an email, most of the time, it's just forwarding
Speaker 3: some information, or if I ask a question, it's like
Speaker 3: get back to me when you can. Right I'm gonna
Speaker 3: utilize like text message if I have an immediate need
Speaker 3: or I need you to have some information like right now,
Speaker 3: and you know something that's important today that you need
Speaker 3: to have access to, And then I might use a
Speaker 3: different vehicle if I want it to be something that
Speaker 3: is more collaborative and something that's easily searchable or that
Speaker 3: it's it's you know, it's it's something that we may
Speaker 3: need to look back on because people save text messages,
Speaker 3: delete text messages like you know that type of thing.
Speaker 3: But a different platform that maybe your organization uses allows
Speaker 3: you for different levels of collaboration but also easy easier
Speaker 3: to search different things. So you know, I think that
Speaker 3: there's a ton of value in all the digital communication.
Speaker 3: But to your point, like the time of understanding, like
Speaker 3: what is used for what and then how you get
Speaker 3: the most effective responses is going to come down to
Speaker 3: how you communicate in these platforms, but also like the
Speaker 3: reflection of you, like like, I think that's an important
Speaker 3: part of it, is that when you have the face
Speaker 3: to face time and the interactions, that's how people read you.
Speaker 2: That's how people know you. They read your message.
Speaker 3: Digitally, they don't they don't automatically assume that it's negative
Speaker 3: or accusatory or anything. If they know who you are
Speaker 3: and how you communicate in general, and over time, you know,
Speaker 3: they get they get used to how you know, how
Speaker 3: you write, and I think so like, but but that
Speaker 3: takes time. So again, if you're if you're a new leader,
Speaker 3: if you're if you're leading a new team, if you're
Speaker 3: new to an organization, all these things right off the
Speaker 3: bat are going to be looked at and considered because
Speaker 3: nobody really knows you yet, like that in spaces, and
Speaker 3: you've got to be able to understand that when you
Speaker 3: initially start to communicate via digital world.
Speaker 1: You're I think you're spot on with that. I think
Speaker 1: you know, if if I if I think about what
Speaker 1: you're saying, you're you're talking about the relationship with each
Speaker 1: individual person. So you know, the the if I am
Speaker 1: new to a team, I don't have a relationship with
Speaker 1: those people yet, and so I have to be very
Speaker 1: clear on what methods of communication I use so that
Speaker 1: nothing is misinterpretable the best. You know, it's like what's
Speaker 1: the what's the term, the football term the or you know,
Speaker 1: the sports term, the best defense is a good offense,
Speaker 1: or the best offense is a good defense. You know
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. This is the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: The best way to make sure that that you're not
Speaker 1: going to be misinterpret digitally is to not use digital communications. Right,
Speaker 1: So that's that's the best way. That's not possible. So
Speaker 1: so let's figure out what the right way is, which
Speaker 1: is to if you're if you're new to a team,
Speaker 1: or if you're communicating with people with whom you don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of history of communication with, or people
Speaker 1: who don't know personally, people who you haven't interacted much,
Speaker 1: then then that way of communicating needs to truly be
Speaker 1: segregated to the factual kind of recap informational email kind
Speaker 1: of thing. If it's if it's something that is that
Speaker 1: could be misinterpreted, but the person you're sending it to
Speaker 1: is someone who you have a decades long relationship with
Speaker 1: with with hundreds of in person interactions and an assumption
Speaker 1: of positive intent between the two of you. Then there's
Speaker 1: almost nothing you could say digitally that they would misinterpret
Speaker 1: because they're they're looking at it in the context of
Speaker 1: the entire relationship with you. And so that's really what
Speaker 1: it comes down to, is that is that if you're
Speaker 1: being misinterpreted by somebody because of something you sent digitally,
Speaker 1: it means that the relationship a isn't there to begin with, right,
Speaker 1: so that the work needs to be on there because
Speaker 1: the failure is a in the lack of relationship, and
Speaker 1: b in the assumption that there was a relationship when
Speaker 1: there wasn't one so that you could use this method
Speaker 1: of communication, and and the the you can you can
Speaker 1: get past the first one by having a relationship with somebody,
Speaker 1: but that takes time. It's not something you've been forced
Speaker 1: to happen. And and the it's about quantity and quality.
Speaker 1: So you can't just say, oh, I've had two interactions
Speaker 1: with this person over the last six months, but they've
Speaker 1: both been really positive interactions. Yeah, that's that's not enough
Speaker 1: right if you if you have an interaction with that
Speaker 1: person every day for the last three months, that is enough.
Speaker 1: Right unless those interactions are not quality interactions, and they
Speaker 1: are they are antagonistic, or there is a kind of
Speaker 1: a rift in the relationship, then that again, then don't
Speaker 1: use the digital communication for whatever you're trying to say
Speaker 1: unless it's factual and informative. And so it's a both.
Speaker 1: You have to have the the history and the quantity
Speaker 1: of the relationship and it has to be a good
Speaker 1: relationship in order to be not misinterpreted in something that
Speaker 1: isn't isn't just factual or informative, and those conversations belong
Speaker 1: in person or you know, over video call or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, so that you are far less likely to
Speaker 1: be misinterpreted. And then the email comes after the fact
Speaker 1: to follow up. Hey, just just verifying what we talked about.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure you have a record of
Speaker 1: this so that we can, you know, move forward. And
Speaker 1: I think if you if you think about why leaders
Speaker 1: don't go this route, it's expediency, right like it's it's
Speaker 1: they know that they know they have positive intent. I
Speaker 1: know I know I have positive intent, so they they
Speaker 1: should assume that I have positive intent. Okay, yeah, in
Speaker 1: a perfect world, yes, but that's not how it always works.
Speaker 1: And so you can't just assume that because you have
Speaker 1: positive intent that they will accept it that way or
Speaker 1: they will interpret it that way. If the goal is just, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what this is. This is the way it is,
Speaker 1: they can take it or leave it. Sure, maybe, but
Speaker 1: but that's not what most relationships between a leader and
Speaker 1: employee are. In most relationships, the win isn't communicating effectively.
Speaker 1: The win is some type of behavioral change or follow
Speaker 1: up or action on the part of the person that
Speaker 1: you're sending the communication to that is needed in order
Speaker 1: to consider to be considered a success. So if your
Speaker 1: boss is looking at whether or not the thing was done,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't done, but they look at you and go, oh, well,
Speaker 1: look at you. Clearly sent them an email. You're off
Speaker 1: the hook there. That's not how that's not how things work.
Speaker 1: Usually the boss will come to you and say, why
Speaker 1: isn't this done? Oh well, I send them an email, right,
Speaker 1: but but then what did you Yeah, that's that's not enough.
Speaker 1: It has to be done. So if the goal is
Speaker 1: that behavioral change or the action happening, then then you
Speaker 1: have to do what is needed to alter your communication
Speaker 1: style or method or venue of communication to get the
Speaker 1: result you're looking for. That's the win, is the result
Speaker 1: you're looking for, not just to be able to expediently
Speaker 1: send them information.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and with that it brings us to this episode's
Speaker 2: one minute hack. But first a few words from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: All Right, this episode is one minute hack is about
Speaker 1: effective communication and lowering the levels of miscommunication and lack
Speaker 1: of clarity. If you're a leader and you're having a
Speaker 1: difficult time with this, if you've been told by some
Speaker 1: or by multiple people that they didn't like the way
Speaker 1: that you came off in this email or this message,
Speaker 1: and your response was or your reaction was, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I didn't mean it that way. That's that's not what
Speaker 1: I meant, then this means you need to work in
Speaker 1: this area. And the way to do this is when
Speaker 1: you are writing something that is going to be sent
Speaker 1: in an email or you know, via any type of
Speaker 1: digital communication, to save it as a draft or as
Speaker 1: a you know, take a screenshot of it or write
Speaker 1: it in a note somewhere and have somebody else look
Speaker 1: at it first someone that you that you trust to
Speaker 1: look at it to tell you how they would interpret it.
Speaker 1: And if you really want to take this to the
Speaker 1: to the place where it should go, the person who
Speaker 1: you should ask to do this is the person who
Speaker 1: reached out to you at one point to say I
Speaker 1: didn't like the way you communicated this, and and your
Speaker 1: reaction was, oh, my gosh, that's not what I meant.
Speaker 1: Because that person is being honest with you already, and
Speaker 1: you know they will. If you go to the person
Speaker 1: who's just you know, your closest friend in the workplace,
Speaker 1: it is likely that they will interpret it differently than
Speaker 1: a person that you're sending it to to begin with.
Speaker 1: And if they look at it go yeah, it's great
Speaker 1: to me. Well, yeah, that means that when they received
Speaker 1: it they wouldn't interpret it negatively. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that a person who doesn't have a relationship with you
Speaker 1: also wouldn't interpret it negatively. It could mean that, like,
Speaker 1: that might be the right person, but you want objective
Speaker 1: eyes to be looking at this. So this is someone
Speaker 1: who you can trust to give you the right answer,
Speaker 1: but but who isn't already so familiar with you that
Speaker 1: they can read through the nuance that might be in
Speaker 1: a piece of communication and not interpret it negatively, go
Speaker 1: to the person who had the problem to begin with,
Speaker 1: and you're likely to solved both problems at the same time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is one of those ones where you know,
Speaker 3: you don't get to decide if you're getting better, you know,
Speaker 3: say or like like, you know, yeah, if you're going
Speaker 3: to work on this, it does take a partnership. It
Speaker 3: does take people around you, and to your point, it
Speaker 3: takes the people that maybe it hasn't landed with well
Speaker 3: because they're the ones who have a different filter or
Speaker 3: different perspective or to your point, of different relationship, and
Speaker 3: you know they're going to they're going to have the
Speaker 3: most amount of information on what you can do differently
Speaker 3: or how you can adjust to not come across in
Speaker 3: certain ways. And like, look, you know, the underscoring answer
Speaker 3: to all of it is like, spend time with those
Speaker 3: people and more time with them, and you'll build a
Speaker 3: better relationship and you'll.
Speaker 2: Have less of has happened.
Speaker 3: But there's definitely an element of this that is just
Speaker 3: around communication skills and the nuance and how you go
Speaker 3: about doing it, because again, you're not always going to
Speaker 3: have the luxury of time to just be able to
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, like I'll you know, they'll get to
Speaker 3: know who I am, and then at that point everything
Speaker 3: will be fine.
Speaker 2: Well maybe maybe not. And if you're.
Speaker 3: Not capable of growing and building the skill, you might
Speaker 3: not ever make it to that chance of time where
Speaker 3: you're able to build the relationships. And so it's definitely
Speaker 3: a key element and something that I do think is
Speaker 3: really important, especially this day and age and as much
Speaker 3: as we communicate in the digital world, I think it's
Speaker 3: something that everybody should be, you know, considering, thinking about
Speaker 3: and working.
Speaker 1: On right And if you are new to a team
Speaker 1: who doesn't have the history with you, really try to
Speaker 1: have as many interactions as you can in person or
Speaker 1: if it's a if it's a remote based team, you know,
Speaker 1: over a video call. Both as a group and more
Speaker 1: specifically one on one with each person. Get to know
Speaker 1: them individually, share things about yourself and ask them questions
Speaker 1: about them that are not work related. Develop a rapport
Speaker 1: with them based on things that are not just what
Speaker 1: the job is, and you are far less likely to
Speaker 1: be misinterpreted because a person can read something and think, oh,
Speaker 1: I feel like I know who this person is I
Speaker 1: don't think they would say it this way. I don't
Speaker 1: think they mean this even though it's easy to interpret
Speaker 1: it this way. That's the ultimate goal, that's the that's
Speaker 1: the armor against it, because then even if you do
Speaker 1: something incorrectly, it's not going to come back and bite
Speaker 1: you because no one's going to misinterpret it. No one's
Speaker 1: going to have a lack of clarity. That's the ultimate
Speaker 1: The step one is to be very clear on what
Speaker 1: you're using each thing for and kind of towing the
Speaker 1: line on where to do this and where to do that.
Speaker 1: That's what you do while you're building the relationships. But
Speaker 1: if you're doing that for a long time, that implies
Speaker 1: you haven't put the work into the relationships to where
Speaker 1: you feel like you still have to do all these things.
Speaker 1: In an ideal world, you get to a place where
Speaker 1: this is less needed because the people you're talking to
Speaker 1: on a daily basis are the people who have a
Speaker 1: very strong relationship with you.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and with that it brings us at the end
Speaker 3: of this episode, this is hacking your leadership.
Speaker 2: I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you
Speaker 2: all next time.