Speaker 1: Oh folk, it show die.
Speaker 2: People say good money to see this movie.
Speaker 3: When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas,
Speaker 3: pop popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth.
Speaker 1: Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Got a.
Speaker 4: Superman, the most powerful being on planet Earth.
Speaker 5: We finally meet.
Speaker 6: Now as plans, I'll destroy you, and of course that
Speaker 6: reporter you always do interviews with.
Speaker 2: Who raised you as a child. I'll kill them too.
Speaker 1: No matter what you do to me, Luthor, your plans
Speaker 1: will work. Wrap it up.
Speaker 2: Good luck with that.
Speaker 7: Make a move, Big Blue.
Speaker 1: They chose him that doesn't die. Hi, quit messing around.
Speaker 7: I'm not messing around.
Speaker 2: I'm doing important stuff. Hey buddy, it's up here.
Speaker 5: Welcome to a special crossover episode of Midnight Viewing, the
Speaker 5: Culture Cast and the Projection Booth. I'm yourls. Mike White
Speaker 5: joined me once again.
Speaker 2: Is Father Malone look up in the sky.
Speaker 5: Also joining us is mister Christasue.
Speaker 1: If I call you bitch, does that make me supergirl?
Speaker 5: We are gathered to discuss the twenty twenty five film
Speaker 5: from writer, director, head honcho of DC, James Gunn. It's
Speaker 5: the story. Well, I'm just going to actually reuse the
Speaker 5: intro I use back in twenty twenty one for Superman
Speaker 5: the movie. The film stars David korn Sweat as a
Speaker 5: titular Man of Steel. It's neither bird nor plane, but
Speaker 5: a story of a man whose father gave has only
Speaker 5: begotten son for the people of Earth. He's out to
Speaker 5: fight for truth, justice in the American way by foiling
Speaker 5: an elaborate Well, it's not really a real estate scam,
Speaker 5: but I guess maybe it is. Whatever it is, it's
Speaker 5: set up by Lex Luthor, played by Nicholas Holt. I'm
Speaker 5: not sure if it's possible to spoil this film, but
Speaker 5: we are going to try so. If you haven't seen Superman,
Speaker 5: please turn off the podcast and come back after you have.
Speaker 5: We will still be here. So Chris, as the youngest
Speaker 5: one here, what is your history with Superman and his
Speaker 5: various forms? Sir?
Speaker 1: I had seen Superman Returns in the when it came out, which,
Speaker 1: as I'm sure we all remember, was such a filmic
Speaker 1: experience that they followed it up with nothing for a
Speaker 1: very long time. I then proceeded to avoid like the plague,
Speaker 1: which the people apparently people don't mind not having anymore,
Speaker 1: the Man of Steel, which was primarily motivated by the
Speaker 1: fact that it was directed by Zack Snyder, who, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I liked Yojimbo or is it Seventh Samurai when it
Speaker 1: wasn't five hours long with Rebel Moon or all of
Speaker 1: the other extended horseshit that Zack Snyder throws up on
Speaker 1: the screen, like that Justice League that we talked about
Speaker 1: so many moons ago. So my experience with Superman was
Speaker 1: about that. I went into the new movie having watched
Speaker 1: the old movies to prepare for the new movie, not
Speaker 1: having been a child of those movies, not having been
Speaker 1: a child of the Chris Reeves Superman. Again, that is
Speaker 1: where we are are. Probably at least one or two
Speaker 1: of us are different in that regard because when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, I did not watch Superman. I watched
Speaker 1: those Batman movies, and by those, I mean the one because,
Speaker 1: as father Malone knows, I just recently watched Batman Returns
Speaker 1: for the first time last year, so I was more
Speaker 1: exposed to other DC properties early on, not so much Superman,
Speaker 1: and then post Superman Returns, I've seen Superman in things,
Speaker 1: but more or less against my will is kind of
Speaker 1: what it feels like with Batman. Versus Superman, Justice League movies,
Speaker 1: I unequivocally had no interest in covering, but covered because
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna want to hear us say something about it
Speaker 1: at some point, so might as well be as soon
Speaker 1: as it comes out. But that's my history with Superman.
Speaker 1: So I am coming into this with no expectations. Really,
Speaker 1: the only expectation I had going into this movie was
Speaker 1: it actually kind of looked good. The guy who plays Superman,
Speaker 1: David Corning, sweat actually feel like a hopeful version of Superman,
Speaker 1: not like this dour, sad, muscle bound guy who seems
Speaker 1: like he couldn't be less interested in playing Superman. If
Speaker 1: you tried, kind of like Daniel Craig with James Bond,
Speaker 1: it's like, we get it, you don't like it. Everybody
Speaker 1: else would love to play this role, but you fucking
Speaker 1: hate it. Fun So I didn't get that in the trailers,
Speaker 1: and I didn't watch the trailers for this movie, which
Speaker 1: I'm trying to follow your lead and not regard, Mike,
Speaker 1: because you tend to not watch trailers for stuff. And
Speaker 1: I will say the trailers for this movie didn't spoil
Speaker 1: anything either, So there was also no but that's my
Speaker 1: experience with Superman. So I'm probably the least exposed of
Speaker 1: the three of us in terms of Superman and Superman knowledge.
Speaker 2: What about you, father Malone. When I was a kid,
Speaker 2: there were no DC properties, There were no comic book
Speaker 2: properties at all. The first comic book character I saw
Speaker 2: on the big screen was Christopher Reeves Superman in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy eight. I was five years old. I'm sure Mike
Speaker 2: you had a similar story. So it was that, and
Speaker 2: then Superman two, and then three and then four. I've
Speaker 2: seen every cinematic Superman on screen since he's been making
Speaker 2: flicks to greater and lesser interest and success. I'd say
Speaker 2: those movies pretty much for me. The last good Superman
Speaker 2: movie was Superman two. It might be the only actual
Speaker 2: good Superman movie because everything else has been diminishing Returns
Speaker 2: as far as I could tell, Like what's his name,
Speaker 2: Brian fucking Singer with his horrible like attempt to sequelize
Speaker 2: what was already sequalized, Like you calm down, young man.
Speaker 1: That's right, because Superman Returns was technically a sequel to what.
Speaker 2: Superman for Superman two?
Speaker 1: Okay, I was trying to remember if it was the
Speaker 1: we cut a movie out scenario or not. That was
Speaker 1: a very early example of that too, by the way.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's on the heels of us not getting
Speaker 2: the Tim Burton Superman movie that we'd all been sort
Speaker 2: of the salivating over during the nineties, and then, God damn,
Speaker 2: I kind of disagree with you. I think Henry cavill,
Speaker 2: I don't think he was disinterested in playing that character.
Speaker 2: I think he wanted to play that character. I just
Speaker 2: think he was given the fucking most dour universe ever
Speaker 2: to be Superman in. And who would want to play
Speaker 2: that version of Superman? Anyone to want to play this one?
Speaker 2: But I hated those movies. You know, I've said it before.
Speaker 2: Zack Snyder has read two comic books, Dark Knight Returns
Speaker 2: and Watchman, and that's it. And he didn't understand Watchman.
Speaker 1: He understood that Watchman was visually compelling, that what's about it?
Speaker 2: He gets surface things. That's why he used every music
Speaker 2: cue from the book in there. That's why he put
Speaker 2: fucking sounds of Silence in there, because he heard it
Speaker 2: in another movie. It's like, we are not here to
Speaker 2: discuss Zack Snyder, im mercifully his reign is over and
Speaker 2: all of his fanboys can shut the fuck up now.
Speaker 3: One.
Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed this new Superman. I thoroughly. I had
Speaker 2: a good time. Honestly, I have a lot of fucking problems. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: this was such a promising step in the right direction.
Speaker 2: How about you mcguin, Oh.
Speaker 5: Very similar story. I think I have seen every Superman
Speaker 5: since seventy eight. I mean I didn't watch you know,
Speaker 5: Superman Versus the Molemen or any of those.
Speaker 2: But I saw those in a theater when I was
Speaker 2: a kid. There was a theater that was a revival
Speaker 2: house that used to show cereals. So I saw the Batman,
Speaker 2: Sirius and the Supermans. Two.
Speaker 5: Well, I can't say I had a lot of hopes
Speaker 5: pinned to the two thousand and six Superman returns. I
Speaker 5: liked hearing the music cues, and my friend Mike Thompson
Speaker 5: was recalling, you know, oh yeah, when we saw that trailer,
Speaker 5: we were just so happy about it. And they said,
Speaker 5: but what if they didn't use the music, what if
Speaker 5: they didn't use John Williams's score, would we have still
Speaker 5: felt the same? Probably not. And they were going all
Speaker 5: out using footage of Marlon Brando and they were also
Speaker 5: using the same lines from the earlier films. I'm just like,
Speaker 5: why would he still be saying these things We've already
Speaker 5: heard him say to miss Lane that traveling is statistically
Speaker 5: still the safest way to fly. It just felt I
Speaker 5: like Brandon Routh, and I felt like, kind of like
Speaker 5: Henry Cavill, he just got shoved into a shit movie.
Speaker 5: I'm not a big fan of Scott Pilgrims Versus the
Speaker 5: World or Saves the World or whatever it is, but
Speaker 5: Routh really kind of redeemed himself in that movie for me.
Speaker 5: But man, oh man, that was just such a letdown.
Speaker 5: And then every Zack Snyder influenced thing. I mean, the
Speaker 5: only time I think I saw Henry Cavill's smile was
Speaker 5: maybe in his little cameo in the Sham movie. But
Speaker 5: holy shit, Yeah, this one, it's definitely a James gun film.
Speaker 5: It felt so James Gunn. It was more James Gunn
Speaker 5: than James gun could James Gunn at this point.
Speaker 2: You really think, so, I disagree, like.
Speaker 1: James Gunn was holding himself back. I didn't even I
Speaker 1: didn't realize we were giving our thoughts on the movie either,
Speaker 1: because I didn't give mine. I thought this movie was
Speaker 1: a step in the right direction, but just as your
Speaker 1: foot was landing, you tripped a little bit, just ever
Speaker 1: so slight. It wasn't a full landing because it was.
Speaker 5: I will say that I enjoyed this movie absolutely. I
Speaker 5: had a lot of fun with it. Just sometimes the
Speaker 5: James goudness of it got him the way a little bit.
Speaker 5: When it came to like Crypto, I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: I remember the dog from Guardians of the Galaxy three
Speaker 5: and the way that he would back and forth with
Speaker 5: Sean Gunn and all that. Crypto felt so Rocket Raccoon
Speaker 5: meets whatever. I can't remember the name of the dog
Speaker 5: from the third Guardians film, who was also I believe
Speaker 5: in the special, the Christmas special.
Speaker 2: We're talking about Cosmo, And yeah, James had a fixation
Speaker 2: with dogs in all of his movies, but.
Speaker 1: Now it's his dog. It's his dog now.
Speaker 2: As an old Superman fan, like, look, I didn't think
Speaker 2: we were ever getting Crypto, and honestly I didn't want Crypto,
Speaker 2: so no one's was as shocked as me. The Crypto
Speaker 2: was as well presented as he is, like he was very,
Speaker 2: very fun for about twenty minutes and then I was like, Okay, yep,
Speaker 2: Crypto again, let's put him here again at the end,
Speaker 2: and that come, dude, we get it. You love fucking dogs.
Speaker 2: We all love dogs. I love Superman. That's the fucking
Speaker 2: movie I came for.
Speaker 5: I thought he was cute and everything, but he was
Speaker 5: just I kind of wish there was a real dog
Speaker 5: mixed in with the CGI version of the dog. I
Speaker 5: don't know if there really was a dog that was
Speaker 5: used in this film at all. It just felt like
Speaker 5: pure CGI the whole way through.
Speaker 1: And the dog is based off of James Gunn's real dog.
Speaker 1: That's He's like, I kept seeing my own dog and
Speaker 1: all the promotional stuff, It's like, all right, James Gunn,
Speaker 1: all right.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I was surprised that Sean Gunn wasn't in it.
Speaker 1: More.
Speaker 5: I did like the little voice cameos from some of
Speaker 5: the folks that were in Guardians, you know, Palm and
Speaker 5: Michael Rooker I'm sure had a voice cameo as some
Speaker 5: of these superbots that he had. And I like those
Speaker 5: Superman bots that he had because they really reminded me
Speaker 5: talking of that whole Tim Burton ordeal, the saga to
Speaker 5: get that film to the screen, which never ultimately happened.
Speaker 5: There were what six scripts, I think at least, including
Speaker 5: one by JJ Abrams, and all of these scripts had
Speaker 5: different stuff, but they're all based on the Death of Superman,
Speaker 5: which included the use of a Kryptonian robot that basically
Speaker 5: merged with Superman to almost be like an exoskeleton for him.
Speaker 5: And it was very similar to this whole robot thing
Speaker 5: that he had going like, oh, it's technology from his
Speaker 5: other world eradicator, Yes, thank you, which loves to play
Speaker 5: squash on Tuesdays against his coworkers.
Speaker 1: I am the Eradicator, I have to say.
Speaker 5: As soon as they showed that video with Bradley Cooper,
Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, well, I know where this is going,
Speaker 5: Like he was sent here to conquer Earth, not to
Speaker 5: protect Earth. Eventually that's going to come out. And I
Speaker 5: just felt that sometimes it was a little too twenty
Speaker 5: twenty five with all of the stuff about online chatter
Speaker 5: and super shit, and then seeing all the monkeys with
Speaker 5: the brain implants and stuff, and I was just like,
Speaker 5: all right, this is a little much. I kind of
Speaker 5: wish they had backed off of that a little bit
Speaker 5: and maybe given lex luthor a little bit more space
Speaker 5: and a little bit more nuance, because he just seemed
Speaker 5: pissed off the entire time. And I love Nicholas Holt,
Speaker 5: but it just felt like he was playing it at
Speaker 5: eleven the whole way through.
Speaker 1: I kind of liked that he was playing at at
Speaker 1: eleven because he was like a rage baiting troll of
Speaker 1: like the kind that you run into gaming online, like
Speaker 1: an actual, like fucking internet troll. Given the ability to
Speaker 1: actually use his brain as opposed to just typing the
Speaker 1: end word over and over again, this guy is much
Speaker 1: more of a nuanced asshole.
Speaker 2: So he's actually lethal in person and thus not like
Speaker 2: an internetroal at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean he does kill somebody in the movie.
Speaker 2: He's exactly like a fly. He doesn't have multifaceted eyes
Speaker 2: nor wings, but he's definitely like a fly.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, if you have a
Speaker 1: movie that's as narratively disjointed as this one, and you
Speaker 1: expect the audience to understand that coming into it, it's
Speaker 1: not going to be an origin story, which I don't
Speaker 1: think the issue of it not being an origin story
Speaker 1: is an issue at all.
Speaker 5: I thought that was great. I love that intro.
Speaker 2: Fucking a get right to it, everybody.
Speaker 1: I think it worked really well, but I don't think
Speaker 1: the rest of the plot, like you kind of alluded to, Mike,
Speaker 1: does anything other than Meyer itself in a specific time
Speaker 1: and place. And we've talked about this before with something
Speaker 1: like the Twilight's Own reboot and then the end of
Speaker 1: this movie, and Nicholas holds in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: the framing device. And again, I know James Gunn is
Speaker 1: one writing the script, just like I know who wrote
Speaker 1: the script for Ghostbusters twenty sixteen. The villain in Ghostbusters
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen was an Internet in cell. That's what he was.
Speaker 1: That's who took that movie to task was Internet in
Speaker 1: cells because they thought the movie wasn't gonna be good
Speaker 1: because women were cast as Ghostbusters. It wasn't go because
Speaker 1: it wasn't funny. Like Father belowde alluded to with the
Speaker 1: Zack Snyder fanboys that are just dragging this movie because
Speaker 1: it exists. I feel like part of the James gunness
Speaker 1: of the movie that I have a problem with because
Speaker 1: I think he restrained himself at times with other things
Speaker 1: that he wants to always do. I think he set
Speaker 1: the movie into specific a time and place to your point,
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five of it all, and it's not
Speaker 1: the And again I don't want to say the wokeness
Speaker 1: of it all because that's a stupid term. But like,
Speaker 1: there are things that I don't think necessarily do your
Speaker 1: movie any service, including them because they date your movie.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying every movie needs to be timeless,
Speaker 1: but the dating of this movie does not help the
Speaker 1: movie's cause. And I think it's the muddied plot of
Speaker 1: the movie kind of goes nowhere, doesn't justify Superman getting involved,
Speaker 1: And by the end of it, I'm like, I'm just
Speaker 1: excited for whatever happens next because that means I get
Speaker 1: to see this character who I actually like, is soon
Speaker 1: this version of Superman going and doing something else. Hopefully
Speaker 1: it's not this.
Speaker 2: Don't make it this what plot?
Speaker 1: I would say, that's yeah, it's very very little.
Speaker 2: During the entire film, I kept wondering what the plot was,
Speaker 2: and now twenty four hours later, I'm still wondering what
Speaker 2: the plot was.
Speaker 1: Remember how we were like, the trailer doesn't spoil the movie.
Speaker 1: There was no plot to spoil.
Speaker 2: The plot is basically Lex Luthors versus Superman no matter what.
Speaker 1: The scenario is not always Superman.
Speaker 2: That's fine, and I'm willing to go with that, but
Speaker 2: I do need to spend a little bit more time
Speaker 2: with Lex if you're going to tell me that the
Speaker 2: same amount of screen time afforded to the miss Test
Speaker 2: Mocker Jimmy Olsen romance is equal, because what in the
Speaker 2: fuck is going on? First of all, just personally, I
Speaker 2: do not like that actor playing Jimmy Olsen. There's something
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: Guy, oh Skyler Gazando.
Speaker 2: That makes me think he grew up eating fried Maloney sandwiches.
Speaker 2: There's just something about his face that makes me want
Speaker 2: to push it in. I don't like him. Nevertheless, I
Speaker 2: also was like, why am I? Why are we watching this? Like?
Speaker 2: I know Lex, because I've read the fucking comics my
Speaker 2: entire life, and I've fucking watched all of the movies
Speaker 2: and the TV shows and everything, right, And that's fine,
Speaker 2: so I don't necessarily need to get inside his brain.
Speaker 2: But as you've said, he is at eleven the entire time.
Speaker 2: This is the angriest Lex we've ever seen. And I'm
Speaker 2: good with angry Lex. That's fine. We haven't really seen
Speaker 2: him yet, but what is actually motivating him? I want
Speaker 2: one scene where we find that out. Just slow him
Speaker 2: down for two fucking seconds. If that were to include
Speaker 2: maybe a conversation with Superman that wasn't them just trying
Speaker 2: to beat the shit out of each other. That could
Speaker 2: have been welcome, and that only kept getting reinforced every
Speaker 2: time we cut to this stupid fucking test Macher Jimmy
Speaker 2: Olsen romance that I mean, I know it makes sense
Speaker 2: the plot, like whatever plot there is like that pays off,
Speaker 2: but who cares anyway?
Speaker 1: Sorry, there were other ways to get around it.
Speaker 2: I had to vent my spleen about the fucking Jimmy
Speaker 2: Owlson bullshit man.
Speaker 1: Skyler Gazando, what did he do to hurt you? Father Malone?
Speaker 2: He's unappealing, that's fair, No, I just that's vallid. He
Speaker 2: seems a very talented human being. Maybe he's a really
Speaker 2: nice guy. I don't like the look of him. It's
Speaker 2: like Billy Zane. I know everyone loves Billy Zane. I
Speaker 2: get the same sort of ick factor from him.
Speaker 1: Robin Wright Penn with me. I get it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, all right, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, I get it, get it, I will say,
Speaker 1: Skyler Goazando is very funny in the Vacation reboot where
Speaker 1: he's just having to shit beat out of him the
Speaker 1: entire movie, So you might like it there.
Speaker 2: That was where I learned to hate him there, because
Speaker 2: I was like, this is our rusty.
Speaker 5: This Oh I'd loved him in that. Yeah, but it's funny.
Speaker 5: I mean, we just talked about Vacation for the Chase
Speaker 5: and Chevy Chase podcast and I'm sitting there through three
Speaker 5: quarters of the movie just going is that that kid
Speaker 5: looks so familiar?
Speaker 2: Why do I know?
Speaker 5: And I did like this weird thing where because he's
Speaker 5: not traditionally handsome whatsoever. And when they had the very
Speaker 5: attractive girls waving at him, I was like, are they
Speaker 5: waving at somebody behind him? And then later on when
Speaker 5: they see what Eve Testmoker looks like, and it took
Speaker 5: me forever to realize that she was missed Testmcker. They
Speaker 5: just come calling her Eve through the whole thing. But
Speaker 5: when they find out what she looks like and they're like,
Speaker 5: what is it with you, Jimmy? Like why are all
Speaker 5: these girls throwing themselves at you? These very hot women,
Speaker 5: Like what is going on here? I kind of like
Speaker 5: that I really wanted more Harry White. I really would
Speaker 5: have liked to have seen more of him.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I really like the actor that played him, Wendell Pearce,
Speaker 5: But it just felt like there wasn't a lot of them.
Speaker 5: And I guess I am not very smart when it
Speaker 5: comes to the Superman more. I kind of go back
Speaker 5: more to the old radio show and stuff when it
Speaker 5: comes to the Daily Planet, because I had no idea
Speaker 5: who the Cat Grant character is.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's relatively new, she showed up in the eighties.
Speaker 5: Okay, because I'm just like, who is this little blonde
Speaker 5: lady who looks kind of like Kristin Chenowith. But isn't
Speaker 5: it's an apt comparison.
Speaker 2: Do you think maybe it was overstuffed with characters?
Speaker 1: I don't think all the time.
Speaker 5: When you have this like bubble that they're in when
Speaker 5: it comes to the Internet, when it comes to the
Speaker 5: media sphere, and it's almost like I'm done with it,
Speaker 5: you know, like, Okay, this bad thing happens. Then suddenly
Speaker 5: we cut to Michael Ian Black as Cleaveless Thornweight doing
Speaker 5: his whole talk show and all this stuff. And then
Speaker 5: later on when they find out that Lex Luthor is
Speaker 5: a trader cut to again, like all the headlines are
Speaker 5: immediately that, and I'm like, oh, it's the twenty four
Speaker 5: hour news cycle. It's like, how many times you know
Speaker 5: it's not a Barry Sonenfeld movie, you know, come on, like,
Speaker 5: it's just leave it alone, would you?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 5: What's something else?
Speaker 8: I go to the movies to escape, and I know
Speaker 8: that this sounds fucking stupid, but I don't fucking need
Speaker 8: to be reminded about how shitty the world is outside
Speaker 8: in the fucking movies, because holy shit, the world outside
Speaker 8: is rough as it is. But then it's like it's
Speaker 8: Superman's dealing with the same stuff.
Speaker 1: I am like, fucking cool. I guess at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, Yes, I'm glad we never had Iron
Speaker 1: Man was a drunk in MCU, But I think the
Speaker 1: MCU made the right call by not including that, because
Speaker 1: nobody wants to see Robert Downey Junior pretending to be
Speaker 1: an old version of himself that he didn't fucking like,
Speaker 1: and they avoided it.
Speaker 2: No, they just puss it out in the second one
Speaker 2: where they had that one scene with him a crunk,
Speaker 2: He's gone crazy, He's pissing in his thing. So don't
Speaker 2: think that they fucking avoided that. They just didn't dedicate
Speaker 2: an entire movie to that story arc. They played that
Speaker 2: arc out friend.
Speaker 1: But they didn't give it a whole movie.
Speaker 2: No, because nobody wanted to sit there for an entire movie.
Speaker 2: But I understand what you're saying about the times reflecting
Speaker 2: the movie and we want to get away from it
Speaker 2: and everything. However, all my going into this movie was
Speaker 2: I don't know that, given our fucking current political climate,
Speaker 2: when the world is on fire, that I can get
Speaker 2: behind some bullshit fucking like plot line of Superman and
Speaker 2: Lois Lane and Lex Luthor for the fucking millions time.
Speaker 2: So I actually embraced that they were sort of in
Speaker 2: an oblique way, dealing with our current climate and dealing
Speaker 2: with the current like attitudes and the current sort of
Speaker 2: political machinations that are going on, because ultimately, it is
Speaker 2: a James Gun movie, and it is a softball of
Speaker 2: a film, and it is there to fucking hug you
Speaker 2: and make you feel good. So if they're gonna do
Speaker 2: it anywhere in entertainment, I want it here because everything
Speaker 2: else is going to feel like a fucking ballpeen hammer
Speaker 2: of the skull.
Speaker 1: That's fair, but also, do we really want James Gun
Speaker 1: to be the arbiter of our.
Speaker 2: Top in this case? Apparently yes, I go.
Speaker 1: I guess when you piss an entire group of people
Speaker 1: on the internet off by saying, and I quote Superman
Speaker 1: is an immigrant unquote an entire sub section of.
Speaker 2: He's not being a rebel though, it's like the most
Speaker 2: basic fucking fact about the man, he's not from here.
Speaker 1: That was included in the Dean Kine show, for fuck's sake, literally,
Speaker 1: then the article about it, they quote an episode of
Speaker 1: that show. Like it's interminable at this point, how much
Speaker 1: people can't get out of their own way to just
Speaker 1: watch a fucking movie. It's kind of a sad thing.
Speaker 2: It's interminable that we have to even have the conversation, like,
Speaker 2: who gives a shit? What are you all talking about?
Speaker 2: It's fucking Superman. He is the moral center of this
Speaker 2: country and pop culturally speaking, Like, ever since the fucking thirties,
Speaker 2: he has been our beacon of hope, and we embraced
Speaker 2: the fact that he fucking came from somewhere else and
Speaker 2: could do whatever he wanted and chose to enact our ideal.
Speaker 1: He disguises himself as someone from Kansas. For God's sakes,
Speaker 1: he is from someone from Kansas. Exactly. None of us
Speaker 1: are adopted. None of us can understand like direct adoption
Speaker 1: by two parents that are not ours. And that's the
Speaker 1: other thing that Superman brings is he's adopted by a
Speaker 1: family without children to be their son. And then he
Speaker 1: takes it upon himself to embrace that as a character,
Speaker 1: and that's part of his character and in the movie,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the best part of the entire
Speaker 1: movie for me, is those scenes with his family. That's it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on in the movie, but the
Speaker 1: center of heart of the movie are those moments pack
Speaker 1: in Kansas. But it's like, of course, of course they
Speaker 1: were going to be great. We have four actors who
Speaker 1: are good actors, with well written dialogue interacting with each other,
Speaker 1: with all the noise cut out and nothing else. It's
Speaker 1: like an oasis in a sea of close up shots
Speaker 1: of David Corning, sweat flying through the air.
Speaker 2: As Clark Kent was raised in Smallville, Louisiana. Judging from
Speaker 2: his parents at the accents.
Speaker 1: Oh hold out, there aren't come in here, mush. They've
Speaker 1: never been to Kansas, but they know where it is.
Speaker 1: Un amappened. That was wild. The accents were people in
Speaker 1: this part of the Midwest don't have any accents. That's
Speaker 1: actually the point. That's why so many call centers are
Speaker 1: in the Midwest because people don't have accents in the Midwest.
Speaker 1: But yes, sound like they're in Georgia. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean the whole idea of him being an immigrant
Speaker 5: is what a lot of the lex Luthor problem is
Speaker 5: is when he is just like, how dare this alien
Speaker 5: come to our planet and think that he can do
Speaker 5: all of this exist He's a total racist?
Speaker 1: That's enough.
Speaker 5: All that should be enough. Yeah, and then this whole
Speaker 5: thing of the two countries that he has fighting and
Speaker 5: all that. I was like, Okay, that's kind of your plot.
Speaker 5: So what I'm saying is if I was in the
Speaker 5: control room that I would probably turn down the whole
Speaker 5: thing about the media circus that is going on in
Speaker 5: our country that we have to deal with every single day,
Speaker 5: and maybe focus a little bit more on this, Yeah,
Speaker 5: maybe Ukrainian situation that we have when it comes to
Speaker 5: all of this stuff. I mean, that is where the
Speaker 5: plot is heaviest for me, and I'm like, yeah, please,
Speaker 5: let's stick around with that. And yeah, I do agree
Speaker 5: that we tend to have a lot of characters in
Speaker 5: this movie. We are jumping all over the place, a
Speaker 5: lot of people at the Daily Planet, a lot of
Speaker 5: people hanging out with Lex Luthor, this whole Justice Gang thing.
Speaker 5: It's like, okay, that's a little much as well. I
Speaker 5: mean that would tell me anything about Hawkgirl at all,
Speaker 5: like any one thing.
Speaker 1: She's okay with killing people. That's about it.
Speaker 2: I don't know which hawk girl this is. There's a
Speaker 2: Thanagarian hawk girl, there's a hawk girl on Earth? Which
Speaker 2: one was she who knows don't even know her fucking surname.
Speaker 5: And then to have the multiple villains and everything, I
Speaker 5: was like, okay, like maybe one rather than having Ultraman,
Speaker 5: which made me laugh every single time they said Ultraman.
Speaker 5: And then the Engineer, I'm like, oh, okay, But again
Speaker 5: they're medic humans, and if Lex hates medic humans.
Speaker 2: But he employs them too, I mean I kind of
Speaker 2: like that, but Lex has always done that, you know.
Speaker 5: But the whole Pocket Universe thing I thought was great.
Speaker 1: No, well, you know, he hates them, but he employs them,
Speaker 1: you know. Again, a little on the nose movie like.
Speaker 2: That's Smallville for ten seasons. He was using them to.
Speaker 5: You know, I like the Pocket Universe stuff. I really
Speaker 5: like the Mister Terrific stuff. I thought that was great.
Speaker 5: I kind of wanted a little bit more of Guy Gordon.
Speaker 5: I know he's insufferable in the comics. And my same
Speaker 5: friend Mike told me his origin story and he I
Speaker 5: love this backstory, and I really hope they go more
Speaker 5: into it when it comes to the Lantern series that
Speaker 5: they're going to be doing. And I have to say
Speaker 5: I was a little delighted when I got to see
Speaker 5: John Cena in here as well. That one little brief
Speaker 5: moment of the Patriot I thought was great.
Speaker 1: You know, they're going to have to explain that at
Speaker 1: some point, but I'm glad that we now see that
Speaker 1: as part of the thing, and.
Speaker 2: They're just going to explain it off as some Pocket
Speaker 2: universe of its own. Here's the thing about Pocket universes,
Speaker 2: and this is always my problem with most super villains,
Speaker 2: is that they always introduce some technology to defeat the
Speaker 2: hero in and of itself, the patent would make them
Speaker 2: billionaires beyond their wildest dreams. Lex has effectively a teleporter.
Speaker 2: Why is there any battlefield at those two countries. He
Speaker 2: should just march them through his little pocket universe and
Speaker 2: into the fucking neighboring country and Bob's your uncle, we
Speaker 2: now rule them. I know he covered his bases here,
Speaker 2: James Gunn did in making that. Lex not only wants
Speaker 2: Superman out of the way, he wants him humiliated. So
Speaker 2: that's why it takes most of the movie. Lex's plot
Speaker 2: concerns doing just that, like disgracing Superman. But really it's
Speaker 2: a means to an end to get him arrested, to
Speaker 2: get him into one of these Pocket universes. When he
Speaker 2: has a we're spoiling everything, right, He has a clone
Speaker 2: of Superman that he is under his direct control, who
Speaker 2: at any time could have just grabbed onto Superman and
Speaker 2: thrown him into one of these machines and sent him
Speaker 2: into the Pocket Universe and then just fucking shut down
Speaker 2: the Pocket Universe. I love a Pocket universe, They'll get
Speaker 2: me wrong. I like the visualization of it here and
Speaker 2: some of the things they do with it. But as
Speaker 2: soon as that was introduced, I'm like, Okay, well, this
Speaker 2: is a whole new cosmic sort of situation. Now This
Speaker 2: has repercussions beyond just Lex hates Superman and wants some
Speaker 2: off planet like it made it a little too advanced
Speaker 2: along the timeline of these movies, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's also slightly disconcerting for me, as someone who has
Speaker 1: not been a fan of any of the MCU multiverse stuff,
Speaker 1: for them to be introducing this kind of stuff this
Speaker 1: early on, knowing how poorly the MCU has handled it,
Speaker 1: and this is just getting started. Like you said, Vada Blunt,
Speaker 1: don't go there now, Like you could do a kryptonite
Speaker 1: box with Superman in it, like they effectively did that. Anyways,
Speaker 1: that was still part of the equation. It wasn't just
Speaker 1: the Pocket universe. It's also you had to be trapped
Speaker 1: in a box with a guy who can make kryptonite
Speaker 1: out of his body, Like okay, why not just.
Speaker 2: Do that, invite Superman to tea and bring Metamorpho with you.
Speaker 1: I'm worried because I know the Peacemakers show what John
Speaker 1: Cena is going to have to explain how the original
Speaker 1: Peacemaker from the DCEU is now in the DCEU, which
Speaker 1: are two different things, And they're going to have to
Speaker 1: explain it somehow, and they've already alluded to the factor.
Speaker 2: Are you really that concerned?
Speaker 1: I want this to stay uncarnished by shit like that,
Speaker 1: because it's been shown how easily you can just start
Speaker 1: getting into the weeds of stupidity with multiverse stuff. Because
Speaker 1: the NCU has like hardcore.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know if they'll ever do that. I
Speaker 5: just feel like the Suicide Squad was basically the start
Speaker 5: of the dc U whatever this new thing is called.
Speaker 5: And I read in Wikipedia that they're calling it like
Speaker 5: Phase one Gods and Monsters or something.
Speaker 2: Amo he has been calling it since day one when
Speaker 2: he got the gig. He was like, Phase one will
Speaker 2: be gods and monsters, starting with creature commandos. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I definitely want to think about Universal
Speaker 2: Pictures when I'm watching a wonder film and good work, James.
Speaker 5: What do you guys think of Rachel Brosnahan as Lois Lane?
Speaker 2: Loved her, He's great.
Speaker 5: I love that she's got a little Margot Kitter in
Speaker 5: her smile. I thought that was really nice, and I
Speaker 5: did really like her, and I really liked the scene
Speaker 5: of them doing the interview. I thought that was great
Speaker 5: acting on both of their parts, and I thought that
Speaker 5: both of these actors are terrific.
Speaker 2: I knew we were in good hands when she made
Speaker 2: a choice as Lewis Lane to eat an individually wrapped
Speaker 2: butterscotch candy by putting the entire wrapper in her mouth
Speaker 2: and then pulling it out and then using her teeth
Speaker 2: to keep the butterscotch in her mouth. I'm that's great.
Speaker 1: I think she's the best contemporary like you guys, said
Speaker 1: Lois Lane, since Margot Kidder. I don't think they gave
Speaker 1: Amy Adams enough to do with Man of Steel and
Speaker 1: then Kate Bosworth. I mean that movie just well again,
Speaker 1: there's no excuses for that movie. That movie is a mess,
Speaker 1: and Brandon Routh and Kate Bosworth have nothing to do
Speaker 1: with that movie being a mess. That movie was a
Speaker 1: mess long before anybody else was brought on board.
Speaker 2: She's great.
Speaker 1: I think she's great. I think she can stand up
Speaker 1: to David korn sweat Superman, and her being able to
Speaker 1: stand up to Superman, that's an important part of kind
Speaker 1: of the dynamic between the two of them, especially with
Speaker 1: what James Gunn is going for. I like she has
Speaker 1: that she has a level of autonomy of her own
Speaker 1: as a character is important because that's kind of always
Speaker 1: been the point of the character, and that hasn't been
Speaker 1: as much a part of the movies as it should
Speaker 1: have been, if it ever has been with anything Zack
Speaker 1: Snyder did at all.
Speaker 2: You know, I can take color blind casting like DRIs
Speaker 2: elbaz as Heim Dull, but I don't know where anyone
Speaker 2: got this idea that it's cool to make Lois Lane
Speaker 2: a blonde. Lois Lane is a brunette from now on.
Speaker 2: Let's keep it that way. That is all.
Speaker 5: I thought you were going to go after Perry White.
Speaker 5: I was like, Oh my god, what kind of podcast
Speaker 5: am I on right now?
Speaker 1: Oh no, get out of here.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Laurence Fishburne was the last Perry White.
Speaker 2: I mean you know, oh you know what they bitched
Speaker 2: about that too.
Speaker 5: Oh fuck Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: The people who ended up bitching that we weren't embracing
Speaker 2: Zack Snyder enough. Initially we're bitching that Perry White was black.
Speaker 2: Let's not forget that about those Zack Snyder fans.
Speaker 5: And you could hold a gun against my head and
Speaker 5: ask me who played Perry White or Jimmy Olsen in
Speaker 5: The Superman Returns. Maybe I would say Paul Dano.
Speaker 2: Was he white? Was Franklin Jella?
Speaker 5: Oh Jesus wow, thank you, because I just could not.
Speaker 1: Think Jimmy Olsen.
Speaker 9: Was Sam Huntington, Okay, Dylan No, he wasn't. Was he
Speaker 9: in Dylan Dog with Brand Dead of Night? But wasn't
Speaker 9: Sam Worthington one of those generic white guys from the
Speaker 9: mid two thousands with.
Speaker 2: All Sam Samington, Yeah, Jy Courtney Worthington, Sam Huntington was.
Speaker 1: He was the Jungle to Jungle. He wasn't Dylan Dog Dead.
Speaker 5: Oh Jesus, Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1: That's the real Brandon rough kid that everybody wanted to
Speaker 1: work on. Was Dylan Dog Dead of Knight? I was disappointed, Mike,
Speaker 1: you didn't say that was your Brandon rap movie and choice.
Speaker 2: I saw that in the theater.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, what theater do the one screening of the
Speaker 1: one theater in the United States that showed the fucking movie.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just showed up. And then I
Speaker 2: saw it in the paper, went well, that's wild.
Speaker 5: He was so good and not another teen movie too.
Speaker 5: That old scene with Gleason, the principal.
Speaker 1: From The Breakfast Lub. Yeah, outside of Margo Kidder as
Speaker 1: Lois Lane, I think this might be the best version
Speaker 1: of the Daily Planet we've gotten in a while. If ever,
Speaker 1: I mean, Laurence Fisherman was good, but again not given
Speaker 1: enough to do.
Speaker 2: I think it's fine. It's as good as any Daily
Speaker 2: Plan on. Ultimately, how much time do we really want
Speaker 2: to spend in the Daily Planet in any Superman unless
Speaker 2: it's Lois and Clark and were supposed to be spending
Speaker 2: time at the Daily Planet as long as everyone's kind
Speaker 2: of cool and doing their job and everything like great,
Speaker 2: but like, let's get out of the Daily Planet. We'll
Speaker 2: see what they're reporting on.
Speaker 1: Give James Gunn the opportunity to make Daily Planet TV show.
Speaker 1: You know, he's champing at the bit. He just wants it.
Speaker 1: Give me more, give me more.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you're probably right, they probably will get that.
Speaker 1: Actually, here's the question though, like is any of that
Speaker 1: a bad thing?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. You don't want to have another
Speaker 1: MCU scenario where it's like you gotta watch all the
Speaker 1: stuff to understand the movies. And I don't think James
Speaker 1: Gunn would do that. But that is another concern, is
Speaker 1: that huge casting of the net and expecting everybody to
Speaker 1: get on board. But then it's like, yo, I don't
Speaker 1: want to have to watch four shows to appreciate.
Speaker 2: Your next movie.
Speaker 1: That's not okay. For like a tad again, we might
Speaker 1: be able to do that, but for casual fans, that's not.
Speaker 1: That's not a thing that I think should be the norm.
Speaker 2: Well, I think even Marvel has learned that lesson. I imagine
Speaker 2: they're gonna start backing way the fuck off now with
Speaker 2: the you mean.
Speaker 1: Moonnight's not gonna be an Avenger's doomsday.
Speaker 5: Speaking of lessons from Marvel, I was really glad that
Speaker 5: the post credit sequences had nothing to set up the
Speaker 5: next movies, unless, like the unevenness of the building has
Speaker 5: something to do with it. No, I don't think so.
Speaker 5: They're just having a conversation. So I was really glad
Speaker 5: that it wasn't Oh, and here's how we're gonna reboot Batman,
Speaker 5: or here's an email with logos for Aquaman.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a low blow, Mike, Come on? Could you?
Speaker 1: How could you? It's so fun to laugh again, isn't
Speaker 1: it now that we can make fun of their pain
Speaker 1: because it came full circle. They got what they wanted,
Speaker 1: it stuck, and now they're back in their idiot holes
Speaker 1: where they belong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm hoping. I've been hoping for the success of
Speaker 2: this movie just to shut them the fuck up. Like
Speaker 2: I didn't agree. I didn't really care what we got
Speaker 2: as long as it was as far from the dour,
Speaker 2: fucking bleak, just muddy looking, like uninteresting, Like these are
Speaker 2: gods and we're witnessing these gods battling each other.
Speaker 1: That's when they don't have any good dialogue, No kaal
Speaker 1: el or whatever the fuck galgad does it.
Speaker 2: At this point, the character is gonna shoot lightning. What
Speaker 2: do you think on the soundtrack? Do you think we
Speaker 2: can get that?
Speaker 1: What a boner that guy had for needle drops? Just
Speaker 1: like I have the budget of a god, so I
Speaker 1: could just be a fucking child with my needle drops.
Speaker 1: That's the thing in this movie. For all of James
Speaker 1: Gunn's needle droppiness in the past, I feel like he
Speaker 1: contains himself here.
Speaker 5: I was absolutely shocked. Now he does love to have
Speaker 5: those montages of the hero kicking ass.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one shot is the fake it.
Speaker 5: And you know, it's very yon due with the Arrow
Speaker 5: and Guardians. What was that Guardians too? Right when it's
Speaker 5: zipping all around and killing Taser Face and all those guys.
Speaker 5: That reminded me of that quite a bit. But yeah,
Speaker 5: not the needle drops that we had, though. I had
Speaker 5: to say that Lois and Clark's theme every time that
Speaker 5: they would get together and have like their little romantic moment.
Speaker 5: I was just like, this music sounds a lot like
Speaker 5: Three Doors Down Kryptonite. Just in need guitar coming in,
Speaker 5: I was just like, Okay. For a minute, I was like,
Speaker 5: is this five for fighting super and it's not easy?
Speaker 5: Or is this three Doors Down Kryptonite? And finally I
Speaker 5: was like, no, no, this is Kryptonite. But I was like,
Speaker 5: that can't be a coincident.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I loved it though, as a child of the nineties
Speaker 1: who grew up listening to that music, yeah, part of
Speaker 1: me was secretly hoping that the movie would end original
Speaker 1: Spider Man style with like with a Superman or kryptinie
Speaker 1: one of the two. Like I was just like, they're
Speaker 1: gonna do it right, Like what James Gun's not going
Speaker 1: to miss his opportunity and he didn't do it. I
Speaker 1: was kind of surprise, Oh, I.
Speaker 5: Know, or that ram cover of Superman. You know I
Speaker 5: am I Am Superman.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, No, he totally restrained himself. He ended
Speaker 2: with fucking Teddy Bears punk Rocker, which is as obscure
Speaker 2: a fucking track as you can possibly get. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know it's iggy Pop on the fucking vocal, but like,
Speaker 2: good for him, and that was beautiful, by the way.
Speaker 2: I think James Gunn is a good writer as far
Speaker 2: as themes go. I think he's top of the pops
Speaker 2: there when it comes to the themes in his movies
Speaker 2: and setting them up and paying them off. I don't
Speaker 2: know that he knows plot necessarily. I think his jokes
Speaker 2: are generally corny and stale. But I loved the circularity
Speaker 2: of a broken and beaten Superman being soothed by video
Speaker 2: of his parents and it's jo l and his mom,
Speaker 2: and then at the end they're soothing him with pictures
Speaker 2: of mon pop Kent. I loved that. That made me
Speaker 2: fucking cry when that started happening, And that was the
Speaker 2: only earned moment of me crying in this movie. Because
Speaker 2: he tried a few times and he did not. There
Speaker 2: are a couple of unearned sort of crowd pleasing moments.
Speaker 2: I thought, like at the start of the war, when
Speaker 2: the little kids are hefting the fucking Superman flag, It's
Speaker 2: like we just dropped into this scene. We're just meeting
Speaker 2: these people. You cannot expect me to stand up in
Speaker 2: a plot right now. I can't cheer you right now, James,
Speaker 2: this is coming out of nowhere. There's so many plots
Speaker 2: and so many different fucking threads going on that how
Speaker 2: am I supposed to be invested at all here? But
Speaker 2: he definitely wanted us to correct when it.
Speaker 5: Comes to war. I mean, is that how we fight wars?
Speaker 5: As a bunch of people on one side of a
Speaker 5: hill and a bunch of people on another side of
Speaker 5: the hill? Modern warfare?
Speaker 1: He also said, spill all the blood, Like we do
Speaker 1: know that people will just indeterminately kill civilions. So why
Speaker 1: is that not the Oh, because Superman can't stop all
Speaker 1: of that at once. Because that's the problem with this
Speaker 1: as the threat of the movie is it somehow has
Speaker 1: made a threat bigger than Superman. So Superman can never
Speaker 1: get directly involved in that war, which is also kind
Speaker 1: of a cop out on James Gun's part because he's
Speaker 1: involved in the backhand, behind the scenes goings on. But
Speaker 1: because there's no way Superman could stick his finger in
Speaker 1: every barrel of every gun fast and upper catch every bullet.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. And that's why it's fought that way,
Speaker 1: because it makes no sense. It literally makes no sense.
Speaker 1: It's a complete contrivance. And it like furthers that this
Speaker 1: movie just in my mind, like the plot of this
Speaker 1: movie is just a mess. Is these like huge logical
Speaker 1: holes that aren't even plot holes. It's just like a
Speaker 1: logical hole that makes no sense.
Speaker 5: And I really liked it well, And that's been the
Speaker 5: complaint about Superman for the longest time. It's like, would
Speaker 5: he stop every war? Would he stop every murder? Like
Speaker 5: could he ever sleep? You know, if he's so concerned
Speaker 5: about human life and scorel life apparently, like would he
Speaker 5: go out of his way to do this all the time?
Speaker 5: And so with this idea of him stopping a war,
Speaker 5: and I like that appened off screen again kind of
Speaker 5: going back to the beginning with that three millennia, three
Speaker 5: hundred years, et cetera, et cetera. Three minutes ago he
Speaker 5: was defeated by the Hammer of Borov or whatever this
Speaker 5: place is. That's interesting to see Superman defeated. That's really interesting,
Speaker 5: you know. And I'm glad it wasn't fucking Doomsday either,
Speaker 5: thank you.
Speaker 1: But it was just Superman.
Speaker 5: It was just Superman, who I think will become like
Speaker 5: a Bizarro or something. And I know that this character
Speaker 5: Ultraman exists in the comics, but I had no idea
Speaker 5: until again, my friend explained to me what was going on.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I didn't do any homework for this one, guys. I'm sorry.
Speaker 5: I just watched the movies. I didn't read all the comics,
Speaker 5: watch all the movie, you know, the animated films, all
Speaker 5: that kind of stuff. So I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 5: who this guy is. I don't know, you know, what
Speaker 5: the ins and outs and what have you of all
Speaker 5: of these references that are going on. I feel like
Speaker 5: I'm kind of done with that too. And it's more like, Okay,
Speaker 5: I get the Marvel stuff just because it's what I
Speaker 5: grew up, and I did not grow up a DC,
Speaker 5: so I don't understand a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 2: I was a DC kid until I was full on horror,
Speaker 2: so I have some grounding in this. But as far
Speaker 2: as any of the recent stuff like All Star Superman
Speaker 2: or you know, like some of the stuff that James
Speaker 2: Gun has been drawing on, no idea. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, plenty of my friends who are still sort
Speaker 2: of in the trenches reading Superman and reading DC have
Speaker 2: assured me that like, oh yeah, he took this from
Speaker 2: here and this from that, and this from this and
Speaker 2: this from that, which is great because what that means
Speaker 2: to me is we've got somebody in charge who's an
Speaker 2: actual fucking comic book fan. At the end of the day,
Speaker 2: whether or not the quality of it is good, you
Speaker 2: at least know somebody's got the someone's minding the store
Speaker 2: as far as the continuity with everything, even if they're
Speaker 2: not pushing it on us, which he didn't seem to
Speaker 2: do too heavy here.
Speaker 1: Our friend Richard HadAM, who was the EP of Titans,
Speaker 1: which was DCEU, I think he had mentioned that, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the people in the writer's room for that
Speaker 1: show weren't fans of comic books, and I think to
Speaker 1: your point, Father Malone, like there needs to be a balance.
Speaker 1: There needs to be people that do love the comic
Speaker 1: books and are like you know, like completely just involved
Speaker 1: in the lore and they can tell the a front
Speaker 1: to back, but then you do need other people to
Speaker 1: temper that with some kind of other expectations of things
Speaker 1: for the commonplace person to watch a show and engage
Speaker 1: with it, because you can't make a movie or a
Speaker 1: TV show like this and alienate large swaths of the audience. Frankly,
Speaker 1: they're making this movie the way that they made it
Speaker 1: to try and not alienate the audience. That was the
Speaker 1: intent of this is to bring in as many people
Speaker 1: as possible and to treat the audience like they're not
Speaker 1: fucking idiots for ones. I mean again, we don't need
Speaker 1: an origin story for effectively. And this is the crazy part.
Speaker 1: The second most popular superhero because the first most popular
Speaker 1: superhero is spider Man. It ain't Superman. Spider Man is
Speaker 1: the most popular superhero period. Superman's probably second, maybe third,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but Spider Man's the number one, which
Speaker 1: is why they didn't do Spider Man's origin story either.
Speaker 1: But that then leaves a problem of if you're not
Speaker 1: gonna do the origin story, what do you do? And
Speaker 1: to your point, Father Malone about All Star Superman, the
Speaker 1: tone of this movie is all star Superman like, maybe
Speaker 1: not identical, but I'm sure your friends who read it
Speaker 1: a lot. The tone of this movie is very much
Speaker 1: in that ballpark, and it's very elevated, not futuristic, but
Speaker 1: kind of like in this weird like elevated futurism. But
Speaker 1: then the tone of Superman and Superman's a little weaker.
Speaker 1: He's more of a human, less of an alien, which
Speaker 1: again this movie is kind of part of it is
Speaker 1: showing that this is a not weaker Superman, but a
Speaker 1: less strong Superman, which is more interesting because again, like
Speaker 1: we've already all alluded to, what do you do with
Speaker 1: the character that can do everything? Theoretically?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that becomes a problem. That becomes your first season
Speaker 5: of Heroes where you've got the Skyler and the Peter
Speaker 5: Petrelli and they basically are invincible, and you have no
Speaker 5: way of ending that, just like what the hell we're
Speaker 5: going to do? And then we just have to kind
Speaker 5: of look the other way for the rest of the series.
Speaker 5: And it's like, Okay, that is a problem, having an
Speaker 5: ultra powered person who only has one weakness and you
Speaker 5: have to find that excuse to get that weakness. Now,
Speaker 5: I did like how they had the kryptonite in this.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure if I really cared for the whole
Speaker 5: Martian baby, who I kept thinking was like a young
Speaker 5: brainiac from the look of him. And then what did
Speaker 5: they just hire a guy to sit in that cage
Speaker 5: with the baby and like wave his arm whenever he
Speaker 5: needed to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kept thinking like, I can't wait. I would
Speaker 2: like to jump ahead in time and see that kid
Speaker 2: at like ten and the guy's still there, but like
Speaker 2: they're friends now, and across the cube they're waving to
Speaker 2: dad and Superman still like withered it on the ground, gasping,
Speaker 2: but like giving a thumbs up for Oh, the kids
Speaker 2: really really made an achievement there.
Speaker 5: I'm homeschooling him now.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that bottom moon. I thought the same thing.
Speaker 1: I was like, how fucking can ted It's saying like
Speaker 1: this is the most contrived way of keeping Superman hostage,
Speaker 1: so unbelievably contrived.
Speaker 5: I like the whole idea of this prison, this private
Speaker 5: prison that he has in his pocket universe with all
Speaker 5: of the people that wronged him in some way, but
Speaker 5: I kind of wish that there had been more of
Speaker 5: it and more of who are these people? In these
Speaker 5: other boxes, just even just like quick one liner kind
Speaker 5: of things of like who these folks are? The whole
Speaker 5: thing of them grabbing that poor guy that gave Superman
Speaker 5: a fullaful and shooting him. I was like, what are
Speaker 5: we doing here? Like when they face recognize this guy,
Speaker 5: I was like, is he like a fucking terrorist or
Speaker 5: something like? Why is he so important to this story?
Speaker 5: Only for him to come back and get shot in
Speaker 5: the head for a guess giving Superman solace And I'm like,
Speaker 5: you're gonna start there, why don't you start with a
Speaker 5: much bigger target.
Speaker 2: I think he was hoping that Superman wouldn't give it
Speaker 2: up and that he would get to kill him and
Speaker 2: then everyone in the in the surrounding cubes would be
Speaker 2: reminded exactly how stirs Lex Luthor was. I think that
Speaker 2: man whoever was coming with him was going to die
Speaker 2: and he didn't want information then anyway, that was fucked up.
Speaker 2: This is the only time I've ever found Lex Luthor
Speaker 2: to be formidable and frightening. I've liked the other performances.
Speaker 5: Wait, you mean him eating Jolly ranchers and flipping people
Speaker 5: in the head and going the bell cannot be unwrung
Speaker 5: ding ding ding ding ding. That wasn't doing it.
Speaker 2: For you, That sadly did not, nor did fellow creep
Speaker 2: azoid Kevin Spacey sleezing it up through that fucking horrendous movie.
Speaker 1: The good reaction it really is. Superman will never.
Speaker 5: That stupid little Adam Rich looking kid, oh.
Speaker 1: Him and his bald cap.
Speaker 2: At least Nicholas Holt shaved his head like Rosenbaum before him.
Speaker 2: There are really only two excellent portrayals of Lex Luthor.
Speaker 2: That's Michael Rosenbaum and now Nicholas Holt. In opinion, everybody
Speaker 2: loves fucking Ian Hackman and that he was great for
Speaker 2: that time, but you know he's okay.
Speaker 1: What about John Cryer as Lex Luthor?
Speaker 2: He was okay?
Speaker 5: What about John Cryer as Lex Luthor's nephew?
Speaker 2: What about it the dude of Steele?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I think that was awesome.
Speaker 1: The real question is why wasn't there a some sort
Speaker 1: of cameo or nod back to Richard What is it
Speaker 1: Richard Pryor in the fourth one? Oh?
Speaker 7: Good?
Speaker 5: Third one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, third one? Gus Jesus Richard Pryor. Everybody can't find
Speaker 1: a good movie role to save his life.
Speaker 5: We've gone down some bad paths with Superman just in
Speaker 5: those first four.
Speaker 1: That's the thing, Like people my age really only know
Speaker 1: like about Snyder's stuff like those. I only watched the
Speaker 1: first two Superman movies. I didn't watch three and four,
Speaker 1: like I know they have a reputation, like I wasn't
Speaker 1: interested in.
Speaker 2: Part three has one good scene, which is Christopher Eve
Speaker 2: separates himself between Clark Kent and a really grizzled and
Speaker 2: angry Superman and they duke it out in a fucking
Speaker 2: junkyard and it's awesome beginning to end. I'd watch it
Speaker 2: for that, but nothing YouTube I will.
Speaker 1: But my point being like people my age, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know people that like Man of Steel an ironically
Speaker 1: whit Jules. I know it's whatever, it's your choice. You
Speaker 1: want to like dower and boring and bland and meaningless. Fine,
Speaker 1: but I'm so glad that somebody has said, like Superman
Speaker 1: can be a hopeful character again and not be just
Speaker 1: kind of depressing and sad, because look, I mean, Captain
Speaker 1: America is Superman, Superman's Captain America. That's like the kind
Speaker 1: of analog to Marvel is. They're like they're all that
Speaker 1: is good and everything, like Chris Evans as Captain America.
Speaker 1: Like if you saw Chris Evans, if you were broken
Speaker 1: down on the side of the road, and Chris Evans
Speaker 1: drove by at his motorcycle and didn't stop and help you,
Speaker 1: you'd be surprised because he's fucking Captain America and that's
Speaker 1: like what he stands for and as that role that
Speaker 1: he's taken on, Like that's kind of the expectation. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm glad that James Gunn brought that back
Speaker 1: to the character of Superman.
Speaker 2: I would expect Steve Rogers to stop for me. I'm
Speaker 2: not expecting Chris Evans to stop for anybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know what I mean. Like, I'm
Speaker 1: not talking about the actual Chris Evans, but the concept
Speaker 1: of the character he's betraying. Fair.
Speaker 2: I will say this, I'm skeptical of every new actor
Speaker 2: that they cast as Superman, and it takes a lot
Speaker 2: to convince me if they're any good at all. And
Speaker 2: very early into this movie, I bought this guy hook
Speaker 2: line in the Sinker. In fact, this is what actually
Speaker 2: made me hopeful for it is that growing up, when
Speaker 2: I was five years old, we were given the gift
Speaker 2: of the perfect Superman in Christopher Reeve. It's just like
Speaker 2: he was grown in a lab, like they said, make
Speaker 2: a Superman and here he was. So Seeing this guy
Speaker 2: and how charming and thoughtful he is in this part
Speaker 2: made me really happy for kids coming into this character
Speaker 2: through this bit of entertainment.
Speaker 1: And his interviews that he did for the movie where
Speaker 1: he talks about actually being excited to portray Superman and
Speaker 1: he's not bummed that might be the only he ever
Speaker 1: has and that might be the role he's known for.
Speaker 1: Like again, I go back to Daniel Craig with the
Speaker 1: whole James Bond thing, Like Daniel Craig literally said I
Speaker 1: would slit my own wrists if they asked me to
Speaker 1: play James Bond again. And he said that before the last.
Speaker 2: Who gives a shit what the actor has to say?
Speaker 2: I'm talking about kids fucking interacting with the character of
Speaker 2: Superman here.
Speaker 1: But that's my point. He is already a good arbiter
Speaker 1: for that because the way he approaches the role is
Speaker 1: I am excited to portray a role that will cause
Speaker 1: me to be hounded by kids.
Speaker 2: Do you think Daniel Craig's performance was lacking in the
Speaker 2: James Bond movies. For having said that, do you think
Speaker 2: he put in less of a performance?
Speaker 1: And the last movie, I would say there are moments
Speaker 1: where he seems disengaged and disinterested. But the last movie,
Speaker 1: the one that came after the statement no Time to Die,
Speaker 1: that would be the only time I would say I
Speaker 1: have other issues with those other James Bond movies. That
Speaker 1: last movie. Yes, there are moments in that movie where
Speaker 1: he seems disengaged and disinterested. And maybe that's not his fault,
Speaker 1: maybe that's the movie's fault. But I'm only viewing it
Speaker 1: through the lens of a person who recently just rewatched
Speaker 1: that movie even and I felt that through multiple scenes
Speaker 1: in that movie that he's not engaged. But again, that's
Speaker 1: five movies in, and he made his intentions clear to
Speaker 1: the people he was making the movie with, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this again, and they were like, well,
Speaker 1: we want you to do it again, so here you go.
Speaker 1: So yes, but not as much as you might have
Speaker 1: thought given what my answer was.
Speaker 2: I agree with tired. I don't think he was disengaged.
Speaker 2: I think that's actually to you.
Speaker 5: I agree with you about Christopher Reeven. I've just amazed
Speaker 5: that we almost got Rich Hall instead.
Speaker 2: If he had just fucking practiced before that.
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, he got the bullet. He had a
Speaker 5: dial soap call back here.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, it was Kroger who took the bullet
Speaker 2: in the face. That's good.
Speaker 5: That's so good, me too.
Speaker 2: It's one of the best of that era.
Speaker 1: I don't think Henry Cavill was a bad Superman. I
Speaker 1: just don't think those were good movies. I mean, again,
Speaker 1: my feelings on him being dour and all that aside,
Speaker 1: Like Denry Cavill was a great Superman. But again, those
Speaker 1: movies didn't help this movie. I think helps give the
Speaker 1: character of Superman more for a certain like you said,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, a certain age of audience to engage
Speaker 1: with the character in a positive way that will make
Speaker 1: kids re engage with Superman the way that they really
Speaker 1: haven't been again, like Marvel's stuff has really been how
Speaker 1: kids have engaged with superheroes for the longest time.
Speaker 2: If they were able to cast twenty five year old
Speaker 2: Henry Cavell in this role in this movie, he too
Speaker 2: would have given me the same fucking feeling. It's just
Speaker 2: that he drew the fucking short straw Man. He ended
Speaker 2: up in the wrong universe.
Speaker 5: Same thing with Brandon routh Man. I will defend Brandon
Speaker 5: routh to the day I die. I think he could
Speaker 5: have been a great Superman, but he was in a
Speaker 5: shit movie today.
Speaker 2: I think, really the only shitty Superman. This is nothing political.
Speaker 2: It's been Dean Kane, like he just seemed like a blunkhead.
Speaker 2: Are there others that weren't great?
Speaker 5: I mean yeah, I started watching that Superman TV show
Speaker 5: that they had a few months ago and and just
Speaker 5: really didn't get into it. Also, for whatever reason, my
Speaker 5: wife isn't into the character of Superman, and I think
Speaker 5: it really comes from this whole thing of he's too
Speaker 5: perfect and he only has the one weakness. He's people
Speaker 5: describe him as an overgrown boy scout and I can
Speaker 5: kind of see that, and she likes more of a
Speaker 5: flawed hero, I think, And for me, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 5: I like this guy, and I like his struggles that
Speaker 5: he has even though he is so perfect.
Speaker 1: And Tom Welling is good in Smallville, but that's Clark Kent.
Speaker 1: I mean again, you want to talk about it being Superman, fine,
Speaker 1: I mean it is Superman, but it's.
Speaker 2: We never saw Tom Welling Superman, honestly.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you see the thing with John Cryer
Speaker 1: way later, but again then he's like, I've given my
Speaker 1: powers up and it's like, well, okay, fuck us.
Speaker 2: Then, so that shit didn't count. Rosenbaum wasn't there, so
Speaker 2: that fucking whole special did not count.
Speaker 1: That's true. And to your point, if Michael Rosenbaum gets
Speaker 1: mentioned in the conversation for Lex Luthor, which obviously he
Speaker 1: does because he's amazing, then I think Tom Welling gets
Speaker 1: mentioned for playing Klark Clark Ken, but I think for Superman, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think probably the least. I don't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dean Kain's not great.
Speaker 5: I remember watching some of that show just because Terry
Speaker 5: Hatcher was in it, and wasn't Mark Hamblin there as well?
Speaker 2: He was. You know, I actually had a friend who
Speaker 2: was cast on that show, Lucy Lane, so I got
Speaker 2: to go to some of the sort of early meetings
Speaker 2: for Lois and Clark, and even then you could tell
Speaker 2: Dean Kane was a fucking maron.
Speaker 1: But he was a great host of Ripley's believe it
Speaker 1: or not. And man, that's all you have just read
Speaker 1: off the teleprompter.
Speaker 2: Dean just look at him and go, no, I don't
Speaker 2: believe it.
Speaker 1: No, believe there. He's like the anti Jonathan Frakes. I
Speaker 1: am so hopeful for whatever comes next. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that any one of us would characterize our feelings
Speaker 1: as hopeful after Batman versus Superman Steel for that matter.
Speaker 2: After Man of Steel. No, not for a long long time.
Speaker 2: Nomadically have I been hopeful for the DC.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the DC broadly, even not just Superman.
Speaker 2: No man, that's what this is actually exciting now. And
Speaker 2: you know, look, I think there were problems with this script. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: it was a completed script. And I know James Gunn
Speaker 2: has been banging the fucking drum that we're not making
Speaker 2: a movie until the movie's ready to go. We're not
Speaker 2: gonna start a fucking movie and go, we'll fucking write
Speaker 2: it on the way. Thank you for doing that, sir.
Speaker 2: No matter where we go from now, and the slate
Speaker 2: of ones that they've been green lighting have been unusual,
Speaker 2: to say the leadst So we're getting a clay Face
Speaker 2: movie long before we're getting a Batman movie. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: He's going to face rated our body horror movie. Mind
Speaker 1: you clarify that, because that's the fucking crazy part.
Speaker 2: Hey, man, right on, and you know what we're getting Karazorel.
Speaker 2: She's getting her own fucking movie. Obviously, it's her dog.
Speaker 2: So if you love that dog, go watch that one.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get a whole lot of that dog. And
Speaker 2: partnered up with Lobo. I love that. Someone, some filmmaker
Speaker 2: here at the DCU figured out that it is Superman
Speaker 2: is automatically a cosmic book. It's automatically a cosmic title.
Speaker 2: You can throw any alien at him. He is an
Speaker 2: alien himself. So yeah, let's get Lobo in here already.
Speaker 2: Let's you know, let's do it up.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Jason Momoa is poorly cast.
Speaker 2: He is not poorly cast.
Speaker 1: No, no, not for Lobo. I'm talking about for Aquaman previously,
Speaker 1: because this is a Chris Evans situation. Once again, having
Speaker 1: seen it again, you might laugh. Jason Momoa in the
Speaker 1: Minecraft movie was He was really good in the Minecraft movie,
Speaker 1: and the same way Dwayne Johnson was really good in Jumanji,
Speaker 1: where he was having to play like a very specific
Speaker 1: kind of character to react to a bunch of other characters.
Speaker 1: He was very funny in a way I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: before with Jason Momoa, because for the most part, I
Speaker 1: find Jason momoas what he brings to Aquaman. It's just fine.
Speaker 1: He's a surfer bro, we get it. I'm excited to
Speaker 1: see where they take that character with Ay engage Jason
Speaker 1: Momoa in that direction, leaning into who I think Jason
Speaker 1: Momoa probably is in real life, because apparently Jason Momoa
Speaker 1: just texted James Gunn like immediately once it was announced
Speaker 1: that James Gunn was taking over the DCU, and he
Speaker 1: was like, I'm playing Lobo like essentially more or less
Speaker 1: was the interaction. So I can't wait for that personally
Speaker 1: at this point.
Speaker 5: I'm here for it. I'm here for what gun brings
Speaker 5: to this party. I'm excited to see what else he's
Speaker 5: going to be doing, and I'm glad that we're getting
Speaker 5: some of these unusual things. I mean, the whole thing
Speaker 5: going all the way back to Guardians of the Galaxy.
Speaker 5: So many of these characters, i mean, just look at
Speaker 5: the Galaxy themselves weren't known to a lot of people,
Speaker 5: and he just kind of had free reign when it
Speaker 5: came to this new toy box that he had. It
Speaker 5: was fantastic. Now, the second and third movies maybe not
Speaker 5: my favorite, but that first one I thought was great.
Speaker 5: And I hope this is not a case of diminishing
Speaker 5: returns as we go forward with the rest of these
Speaker 5: DCU movies. But I'm still excited right now. I want
Speaker 5: to see what else this guy does for us.
Speaker 1: And I've seen people talking about the Supergirl cameo at
Speaker 1: the end of the movie and how it's kind of
Speaker 1: strange and tonally and consistent with the rest of the movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: then that movie doesn't have to be this movie, and
Speaker 1: she's clearly going to be a very different kind of character,
Speaker 1: which is fine. I really like Millie Alikock too from
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, How's of the Dragon. She was fantastic,
Speaker 1: So if she's the one playing Supergirl, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1: But I've seen people complaining it's like, you know, the
Speaker 1: thing that I'm most excited for is it seems that
Speaker 1: James Gunn is actually going to do what Marvel didn't
Speaker 1: do and let the movies be their own fucking things,
Speaker 1: which is fine because they don't all have to be
Speaker 1: Joss Whedon beat joke in front of a serious moment,
Speaker 1: because that's what all the Marvel movies have become now
Speaker 1: were like tonally, they're all Joss Whedon movies, and that
Speaker 1: should never have been the case because Marvel, like DC,
Speaker 1: has a wide and diverse array of characters like Father
Speaker 1: Malone already alluded to Clayface and a woman who's a
Speaker 1: hawk and an alien who can read people's minds and
Speaker 1: all sorts of wild shit. They don't all need to
Speaker 1: be tonally the same. And I'm glad that James Gunn
Speaker 1: is seemingly allowing the filmmakers who are getting involved in
Speaker 1: the project that he is working on to have their
Speaker 1: own voice, which Marvel took like twenty plus movies to do,
Speaker 1: because yes, they cast Kenneth Bronna as the director of
Speaker 1: the original Thor, but I say cast is the director
Speaker 1: because Kenneth Broanna's talents were not being put to good
Speaker 1: use in early Marvel stuff because they were not letting
Speaker 1: anybody do anything. And I understand why, But I'm glad
Speaker 1: that DC and James Gunn are being given a little
Speaker 1: bit more free reign to do their own thing, because
Speaker 1: I think that should yield a much more interesting set
Speaker 1: of films moving forward.
Speaker 5: I want to thank my co host Chris and Father Alone,
Speaker 5: so FM, what is the latest with you?
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Speaker 5: What about you, Mike, Yeah, pretty much the same thing
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Speaker 5: Slash Projection booth. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. And yeah,
Speaker 5: remarkably a DC film that we actually.
Speaker 3: Liked, Nature Picture Picture, Picture, Picture Picture.
Speaker 7: Paturetreature in a way back
Speaker 3: Way