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Speaker 1: We are so pleased as always to welcome the show's

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official historian. He is an amazing guy. If you have

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not checked out his website, I urge you to, especially

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you history fans will love hisstoryauthor dot com, he is

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a columnist with The New York Sun. His columns are brilliant.

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I posted one today and it is dealing with the

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experience that the people on the Mayflower had coming to America.

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And it's just a brilliant column that's par for the course.

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Dean Carrianis you are my friend, just a gem, and

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thank you for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I guess since I'm Greek Malacca on the sky with diamonds,

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I'm the diamond maybe today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for that kind intro.

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Speaker 4: Quite welcome. Now.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I'm also seeing, you know, there

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are people on social media posting an eight minute version

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of Rush with the Thanksgiving story, and I don't play

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it here because I respect the copyright. Okay, good for you, so,

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but that's why we talk about it. And so Dean

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can first of all, brilliant column today. I love that column.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you speak.

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Speaker 4: About that for a minute ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you were nice to tweet it. Out. Thank you.

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I appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Tell people where to go to get it.

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Speaker 3: Though, Yeah, well mysun dot com. You should be going

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there if you like to see some of the stuff

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that we used to trade back and forth, James, you

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and I and with the Boss and George Pryce over there.

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Now I have to do the hard work of writing

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these columns. It was much easier to hand rush the

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ball and to let him turn into something brilliant. Now

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I have to try to, in my poor power, do

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it on my own. But that's what I write there

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at m whysun dot com. And this year's column is

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one that I think he would have loved, focusing on

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the trials of the Pilgrims. The headline there at the

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New York Sun is how a girl named Remember, age five,

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and her fellow Pilgrims endured the crossing of the North

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Atlantic to reach America, And it's about just the incredible

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troubles that they had. Russia's story always focused on the

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legitimate trials and tribulations and death and disease that the

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Pilgrims faced once they got here, but just to in

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that rickety ship, never designed to go on the ocean,

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not designed to take passengers, a windowless cabin that they

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had that they were in, no individual cabins, everyone thrown

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in there. It is incredible what they endured to be

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able to come here.

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Speaker 1: And I have seen the replica of the Mayflower, and

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the first thing that I saw is this ship is

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incredibly small. This thing is it is really a tiny

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comparison for the people. It's a tiny ship that got

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across the Atlantic at all. Is somewhat of a miracle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely is a miracle. They certainly saw it that way,

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and I think they were less squeamish. Obviously these were pilgrims.

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These were people coming for religious freedom. So they saw

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God's hand and everything and gave thanks. It was one

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hundred feet long, which if you go to MSG and

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see the Rangers rink or any NHL rink, that's enough

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to fit two of them nose to tail. That's how

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small it was. And it's less wide than two zambonis

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that are put nose to tail. So think about how

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small it is, Think about how small an NHL rink is,

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and that you're alone.

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Speaker 2: They're at sister ship.

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Speaker 3: The speedwell had to turn back twice because it kept

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springing leaks, and they finally say, let's get on this ship.

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Go down in this windowless area. There's the smell of

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live stock, including pigs. Everybody's throwing up all the time.

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There's no windows, there's no air. The ceiling is only

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five foot high, and they go in under there, and

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they know that there's going to be storms and pirates too.

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Speaker 2: We don't think of pirates and pilgrims coexisting.

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Speaker 3: But they worried about pirates all the time that they

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came in these colder winter months. Right about now, they

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would be out there in the North Atlantic. We look

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out the window now at New York City. Think about

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being out in the ocean right now, with wet all

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the time, and rags and no fresh water, no fresh air,

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no sunlight even on your face. And the food was

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just whatever was salted and you could bring along. They

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suffered so much, it's incredible. And they did it in

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part to bring the may for our compact and kick

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off our way of governing ourselves and the most liberty

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for the most people.

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Speaker 1: Now, for a minute, walk us through the cliff notes

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of the original Christmas story that that rush brought to

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so many of us. And I got to tell you.

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When he first did it, it blew my mind. It

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blow it blew my mind hearing him do it every year.

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But I was taught so such a different story in school.

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And then when Rush actually explained the true story of Thanksgiving,

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it was mind blown. Help us through that with the

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cliff note version.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I know he said he had been taught

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the same version that you were, that I was, that

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a lot of people were. In fact, it's funny because

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this is the version that this Axios column that a

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lot of people are talking about today because they managed

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to get a few clicks by trashing America, which always

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seems to work with a certain percentage of people, and

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they talk about this version that, oh, it was the

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wamp of noag. Native Americans came and saved the Pilgrims,

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and the Pilgrims were giving thanks to them for helping

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them out. And Rush believed that for a long time,

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and then he went and looked at it. He did

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something that certainly I always tried to do well. I

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used to always try to do when I sent Rush

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something a primary source, and I do that in my

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New York Sun columns as well. Go back and read

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what William Bradford, their historian, was writing the second governor

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of the of the Plymouth Colony, and see what he

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had to say, And he explained, we got there. They

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suffered all that misery. They tried to have something like

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a social assist them a communist system, even where everybody

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got an equal share and nobody got more than anyone else.

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And there's that great part in there where he says

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William Bradford does and Rush used to read it that men,

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single men found it very, very unjust that they should

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have to labor for the wives and children of other men.

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They didn't think that why should they do it and

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get all sweaty and get dirty and risk risk all that,

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so they would not work. And then they decided to

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try capitalism. And they said, well, we'll give each person here,

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each signatory of the Mayflower comp back, let's say, And

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they've given them each a little bit of land, and

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whatever they grew on that part of the land, they

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could keep themselves or resell.

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Speaker 2: It if they wanted.

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Speaker 3: If you were a single guy and you wanted to

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sell your extra food, you could just sell it because

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you were only you. And by that they made all hands.

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Speaker 2: Industrious is how William Bradford recorded.

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Speaker 3: It, and they had such a bounty that then there

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were the Wampanoag tribe. And I think it's key that

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Rush I thought of this even before we spoke today,

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and then before I saw this article in Axios, and

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Rush always said, this isn't to take anything away from

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the Native people, but it's not the accurate story. And

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it's funny that the people who presume today to take

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up the mantle of Native people don't tell an accurate

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version either.

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Speaker 2: It's just a different version of it.

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Speaker 3: It's just a I say, it's the noble savage is

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just as racist a trope for Native people as just

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a savage part. Right, it's just a farther I guess

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a farther left one that sounds to that sounds a

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little more palatable. But that wasn't it. There they were

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people they had had contact before. There are other people

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who had arrived Westerners. They were surprised the pilgrim to

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meet Squanto, who spoke perfect English, and he said, yeah,

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I've been which sounds insane, think it right, Yeah, it's yeah.

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And so he spoke and they they were friends and

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allies when they got there, there'd been disease that wiped

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out a lot of a lot of the native people

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that were there already. They were certainly being prayed of

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ham by others that were in the area, other tribes

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that were in the area in Massachusetts and Greater Massachusetts area.

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So they made common cause. They traded with each other.

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And this is where that first Thanksgiving comes from. And

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you can read it in William Bradford's diary. And I

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who was it. Who was the Clinton administration guy who

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said I lied to my diary when they said I

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forget Yes, I lied in my diary about that thing.

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I said that Clinton was doing wrong. So I don't

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think William Bradford when he was there just trying to

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keep some rags on his back. And his wife dies

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the first year that he's there, and they say the

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later comers from the Gray Puritan migration are shocked and

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some of them burst into tears seeing.

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Speaker 2: These pilgrims in rags.

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Speaker 3: This this image of them with these nice buckle shoes

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and looking really stately is certainly a myth. There are

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practically naked some of them. And so he didn't lie

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when he recorded this, And the fact that there were

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later cop Flix that we know of this class of

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cultures and that there were horrible things that were done

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in atrocities. We know that this occurs on both sides

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when two cultures come into conflicts, and that was the

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case here.

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Speaker 2: And I was thinking today to.

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Speaker 3: Define Thanksgiving by the worst of it, by the worst

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examples of relations between native people.

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Speaker 2: And the people who came from Europe, the migrants. Dare

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we say seeking a better life.

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Speaker 3: Is like saying Valentine's Day, I'm not buying you a Valentine, honey,

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because there was the same Valentine's Day massacre and that's

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the real meaning of Valentine's Day is in nineteen twenty

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nine in Chicago, they gunned down all those people. So

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we can't celebrate.

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day anymore.

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Speaker 3: And that's what doing.

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Speaker 2: This to the story of Thanksgiving is really.

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Speaker 3: This was an amazing story. It has so many lessons

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for us today. It's a lesson that humanity has to

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keep relearning and that we have to keep teaching. As

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Russia always said, the pursuit of conservatism it isn't passive.

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You have to keep doing it because if anything isn't

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actively conservative, it will just become liberal, will lose the.

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Speaker 2: Truth in that. And I think the pursuit of truth.

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Speaker 3: In general for everybody should be like that. You should

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always be seeking more and more truth and find that

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primary source, find the real story. And as you said,

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they're respecting the copyright. Don't trust people. I would say

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that are just out to get some of those clicks.

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And it's funny because I was thinking of Rush that

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he wouldn't care, because he would just be glad that

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people were hearing the story. And I don't know how

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he got that way, but you and I who we

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still have that same protectiveness and defensiveness for him. But

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he'd love just the story getting out there.

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Speaker 4: And we're going to continue to help that story.

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Speaker 1: I get out there as many years as I have breath, Dean,

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and thank you. You know what we ought to do

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next year, you and I ought to actually spend some

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time before Thanksgiving and read the whole chapter of his book,

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read it and then also talk about some of the backstory,

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because there's a lot more to the backstory through the years,

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Abraham Lincoln on Thanksgiving and George Washington's proclamation and how

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that came to be so LEXI or next let's do

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something a little different and put it maybe on a

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podcast or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like a great idea. I'd love it.

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Speaker 3: I always like to go back and read it. And

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by the way, I think it's wonderful that rush. He

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could have just played that every year, but instead he

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would always make it a little bit, tweak it a

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little make it a little more relevant. He'd swap out

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an Obama reference or a Clinton reference, and so he

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would always try to keep it timely, always be teaching.

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And I would invite people to go and read the

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original in his second book, see I Told You So,

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because of exactly what you're saying. You think about it.

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It's not those empty calories. And if you're going to

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go somewhere and just watch it, it's impossible to watch it,

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to watch it, listen to it passively, because there's so

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much in it that makes you say wow, and you

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think back to those grade school teachers we talked about

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and say they were just wrong.

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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: David, thank you, my friend, for taking day some time

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out of your Thanksgiving Day and spending up spending it

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with us. We look forward to checking in with you

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every time there's a major American holiday, and they're all

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major and thank you for always being here with us.

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Speaker 2: Teen thank you, well, thank you.

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Speaker 3: It's an honor and happy Thanksgiving to everyone out there

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in the w ABC audience. You all are really blessed

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to have a great, great American station. This is a blowtowards.

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It's an honor to be here with all of you.

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And remember, go easy on that turkey and go Giants,

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even though I know they're going to go on to

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lose again.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well okay, it was all good till we get

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to the to the gits. Thank you, Dean appreciated