WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.200 This is the Startup Still Say podcast. Thank you for 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:07.120 tuning in to us a favor like subscribing YouTube LinkedIn 3 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:08.839 and be sure to give us your feedback. 4 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:10.679 Hope you enjoyed this episode. 5 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:13.960 Come on to another episode of start if They'll Say. 6 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:17.920 And today I am co hosting again with Anthony and 7 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:23.399 we're welcoming under pallicuper Money today to our podcast. And 8 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:27.519 why don't you cut us into what your journeys be? 9 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:28.920 Then a bit about yourself. 10 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:30.559 Thank you so much for having me today. 11 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:35.000 Well, okay, so in brief, I come from a math 12 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.799 and computer science background. So I did my undergrad at 13 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:42.359 Indian instru Science, Banglore, which is a four year like 14 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.439 Pure Sciences program. Typically the journey of somebody who goes 15 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:48.920 to a university like that at Pure Sciences University is to. 16 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:49.439 Do a PhD. 17 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.039 Nineteen nine percent of the class that I graduated with 18 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.240 is actively doing a PhD right now. So yeah, so 19 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:01.960 I come from a very research oriented background. 20 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:04.840 And primarily math. 21 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.359 In fact, when I joined university, wanted to be a 22 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.799 theoretical physicist and a year and a half entered it. 23 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:17.959 You realize the field is so saturated. The number of 24 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.200 like seismic breakthroughs happening in recent times. I think the 25 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:24.280 last size with breakthrough maybe was like forty years ago. 26 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:29.239 The field is very saturated, and so I quickly shifted 27 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:32.120 focus over to math because my professor told me, if 28 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:34.879 you join math, you can do anything later in life. 29 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:37.680 It can be like the latest Nobel Prize in chemistry 30 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:41.799 went into like computational analysis of proteins or something like that. 31 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:44.719 So like math takes you, makes you do anything. 32 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:50.000 So yeah, So when I realized theoretical physics may maybe 33 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.959 not right for me, I quickly pivoted over to math 34 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:56.319 and computer science, and that's where my journey kind of starts. 35 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:01.319 So I graduated in the year twenty twenty. That's the 36 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:04.640 same year that COVID hit. So I was getting ready 37 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.879 to start applying for different PhD programs follow the same 38 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:11.080 part as my classmates. But that's the year you realize, 39 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.719 or even if I do join a good PhD program, 40 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:15.439 the first year year and a half is going to 41 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:19.360 be all online and you're not going to be getting 42 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.800 the full experience out of it. So I spoke to 43 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.159 my professor and asked him, Hey, I'm a little unsure 44 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:27.240 about this thing. You know, I'm going to be spending 45 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.840 the next five six years of my life pursuing a PhD. 46 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:34.319 And if the first year is going to be all online, 47 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:36.560 and if that's how it starts, I'm not sure I'm 48 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.159 going to be too enthusiastic about following up on this. 49 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.560 And so he tells me, why do you even want 50 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:43.240 to do a PhD in the first place? 51 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.120 As somebody who's done a PhD. 52 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.439 Let me ask you this, do you want to spend 53 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.360 five years of your crime, which is the twenties of 54 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.319 your life, marginally increasing the body of knowledge out there? 55 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.280 And that kind of hit me, like, damn, that is 56 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:57.080 what a PhD is. 57 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.879 You're spending five years of your prime marginal the body 58 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:01.759 of knowledge out there. 59 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:04.319 And yeah, maybe one out of like like. 60 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.879 Ten thousand PhDs might be something substantial and spectacle, but 61 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:13.800 you know, it's it's you never know what where you're 62 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.039 going to end up. So that made me pause and 63 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.159 thin for a bed, and I decided, Hey, let me 64 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:20.199 just take a year and decide what I want to do, 65 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.080 and in this year, after this year, if my interests 66 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.719 will lie in research, then maybe I'm going to go 67 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:27.960 ahead with my pH d program. But let me just 68 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.879 go into it with all kuns of blazing. Make sure 69 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:32.400 I'm properly motivated to get. 70 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:32.800 Into this thing. 71 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:35.479 So I took a year, and in that year, we 72 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.159 were all stuck indoors, and it did kind of open 73 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:40.840 up a little bit. But every establishment that you went to, 74 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.800 like you go to a movie theater, the first thing 75 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:45.800 they're going to ask you is your phone number. For 76 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:47.960 the sake of I don't know if you remember this, 77 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:51.080 but there was this idea of contact tracing back then, 78 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.199 wherein wherever anybody went to, their phone number had to 79 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.000 be collected because if COVID kind of started spreading, use 80 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.039 those owe numbers to kind of create a map and 81 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:00.479 figure out how to a bit. 82 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:02.120 Like. 83 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.199 I don't think it worked at all, because you know 84 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:11.039 what happened happened, But every establishment started collecting your phone number, 85 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.159 and the excuse was contact sharing. Hey, we have to 86 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:16.839 do contact sharding. You come to you've come to a restaurant, 87 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:18.720 let's get your number. You've come to a grocery shop, 88 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.959 let's get your number. So I was like, hey, look 89 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.680 now they're collecting my number because of the sake of 90 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:27.600 contact racing. But I bet you a year from now 91 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.519 when COVID's gone. This practice isn't going to stop. And 92 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:34.399 that's exactly what happened. Once these businesses realize the tremendous 93 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:38.000 benefit of having that piece of identify for you, they're 94 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:40.720 never going to stop. So I don't know what the 95 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.439 state is in the US, but in India, every single 96 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:45.399 establishment that you go to kind of asks for from 97 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:49.199 buying groceries to getting a cup of coffee. Now there's 98 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:51.399 this new trend of them making you download and app 99 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:54.240 every time you go to a different establishment. And it 100 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.279 turns out, even for like a like a five percent discount, 101 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.879 Indians are super happy giving out the number. And so 102 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.240 I just in that period of time, I just felt like, hey, look, 103 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:08.120 this is not healthy at all. It is not healthy 104 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:11.639 that everything we do online and offline gets aggregated around 105 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:15.920 one single identifier. Plus that's also the main identifier that 106 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:18.720 they can use to target stuff at you, call you, 107 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:19.680 bother view spam you. 108 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:22.439 So we just figured out, we just asked ourselves, can 109 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:23.879 we figure out a way that. 110 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:26.839 People can connect and communicate, maybe connect with businesses, connect 111 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:29.360 with other people without having to share any sort of 112 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.399 personal identifiers for themselves like a phone number or an 113 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.399 email idea or anything like that. And so the first 114 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:38.560 idea that you approached is maybe we'll create something like 115 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.920 a virtual identifier, something that's not so sensitive that people 116 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.040 can share, in which case they don't have to worry 117 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:47.040 about their primary identify, their phone number, being exposed. But 118 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:49.839 the problem there is the problem with any sort of 119 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:53.319 contact info. Once you have a unique personal identifier for 120 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:56.639 a person, even if that's a virtual identifier or something 121 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:59.680 more concrete like a phone number, they can be linked 122 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.439 with each For example, if WhatsApp comes out with WhatsApp 123 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.759 user names, your WhatsApp user name can be linked back 124 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:06.439 to your phone number. 125 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:09.879 So it's only as good as. 126 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:13.959 The first exposure event where it gets linked back to 127 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.319 your original identity. And all contact info has this issue. 128 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:19.879 If I give you my contact info, you now have it. 129 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:22.000 There's no way for me to take it back. Plus 130 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:24.519 I don't get to control who you then share it with, 131 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:26.800 Like I can't stop you from sharing it with Anthony, 132 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:28.879 I can't stop you from selling it to three thousand 133 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:32.360 other people. So the fundamental nature of contact info, any 134 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:33.240 contact info. 135 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:33.720 Is that. 136 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:37.680 You have no control over it. You can't take it back, 137 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:40.800 you can't control who it spreads to you can't control 138 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.040 the data that gets aggregated aroound it. So any true 139 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.240 solution here for this problem would mean that we would 140 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:50.040 have to create something that does not use any sort 141 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.800 of contact info. And that kind of ignited that the 142 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:56.079 math brain in me kind of trying to figure out a. 143 00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:00.680 Good cryptographic solution to this huge privacy problem. And that's 144 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.279 the birth of our company numberless. 145 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:07.040 What we do is we build in NERDS speak, we 146 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:12.959 build authenticated identified less communication protocols. What that means is 147 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:15.160 I can connect with you, you can connect with me, 148 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:18.199 but there's no contact in for identify it ever exchanged. 149 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:21.759 So like we're creating a world where you are in 150 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:23.959 complete control of who we are connected to, how much 151 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:26.000 access they have to you, and whether or not they 152 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:28.319 can connect you with other people, and none of your 153 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:29.560 personal infoy is ever exposed. 154 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.399 And yeah, that's our journey so far. 155 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:33.439 It's incredible. 156 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.879 You've definitely scared me off of PhDs. 157 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:39.160 Yea, that is very true. 158 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.920 Right, Like most places, we are adding our phone numbers 159 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:44.199 for any sort of accounts, discounts, whatever it is. 160 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:46.160 It's a very easy transaction to do. 161 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:50.319 And you're right, we forget and or are these sensitized 162 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:53.040 about it's just a phone number, right, but there's a 163 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:54.959 whole lot of information that's connected to us. 164 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:57.879 So that's a brilliant, brilliant idea of that. Sorry, Anthony, 165 00:07:57.879 --> 00:07:58.279 I know you. 166 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:03.040 Were asking question all good, so so a rather brilliant story, right. 167 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.639 I mean, every every founder goes through that pain point 168 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.480 before you say okay, I mean this is a pain 169 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.480 point worth solving for, So thanks for sharing that. I mean, 170 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.040 having spoken to you for an hour or so, I 171 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.439 mean that that part didn't come out, so it's it's 172 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:25.560 it's a good learning. So based off of that, what 173 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:29.480 what made you decide saying okay, I mean you have 174 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:31.519 number less, right, I mean, this is the way you 175 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:36.679 want to solve Did you look for any existing technology 176 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:39.720 that might have existed for you to take and piece 177 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:41.600 it together to solve it? Because I mean the reason 178 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.360 I ask is you've also created a brand new protocol 179 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.480 called the port protocol as part of number less. 180 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:48.840 Right. 181 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:50.799 I mean what so in a way, you're kind of 182 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.159 starting from scratch from the ground floor, if you will, right, 183 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.159 I mean, why why did you decide that you needed 184 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:02.840 a brand new protocol despite being so many other protocols available. 185 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.080 Well, I think in this space, I don't think there's 186 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:09.399 a lot of protocols available. I think most of the 187 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.440 communication and authentication protocols out there rely on every individual 188 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:18.039 having a career public Even if we go web direction, 189 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:22.240 your public identifier is your public key, in your public 190 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:24.720 in your key are it's a publicKey, that's your identifier, 191 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:27.200 So you still have a unique public identifier that's exposed 192 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:29.159 to everybody else. So if the problem that we're trying 193 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:32.159 to solve for is data aggregation and stopping people from 194 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:36.879 aggregating data around the central identifier, I don't think there's 195 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:39.320 been a lot of protocols developed to kind of solve that. 196 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.320 So I think in that way, we were new and 197 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.600 I couldn't find too many examples of good protocols. There 198 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:51.039 are a couple of them out there, but just the 199 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:57.360 fact that they haven't been, you know, used enough, is 200 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:59.960 kind of an indicator that maybe the protocols not sound. 201 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:04.200 So that's what made us like reluctant to piggyback on 202 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:07.080 somebody else's protocol and maybe build our own protocol with 203 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:09.919 our own set of proofs that it is secure and reliable. 204 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.200 Okay, Okay, that makes sense, and I mean just fresh 205 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:16.320 out of college in your case, right, I mean obviously 206 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:19.519 you said, I mean a lot of this happened during 207 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:22.120 the COVID time, but I mean, given that you were 208 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.679 math and science major, I mean, this is a huge undertaking, right, 209 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:30.279 especially for someone I mean who spent the year thinking 210 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:34.240 about what you did. You're also thinking about, Okay, how 211 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:37.200 are you going to you know, make ends meet? And 212 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:43.399 you jump into something so challenging, but at the same time, 213 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:47.519 I mean, the world needs this. What are some of 214 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:52.240 those things that spurred you on and pull together or 215 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:55.399 write people to kind of bring numberless together? 216 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.720 Well, you're right, absolutely I had to make ends meet. 217 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:04.120 But thankfully, because it was COVID, one of the advantages 218 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:06.600 is you could just crash with your parents, and in fact, 219 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.200 they wanted you to live with them because they knew 220 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:10.759 you were saved and secure and all that. So I 221 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:12.440 didn't have to worry about rent, I don't have to 222 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:13.159 worry about food. 223 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.000 I had no expenses at all, so there was no 224 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.840 financial pressures per se, so I could pursue things that 225 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:20.720 did not make sense in the movement. 226 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:25.080 Plus, plenty of my friends were stuck at home to 227 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.720 all itching to do something can't get out, can't do 228 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.240 something out there, so they were all stuck at home. 229 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:32.720 So I was really. 230 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:34.840 Lucky that I found my co founder, who's who I've 231 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:38.639 known my entire life. So he was a University of frount, 232 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:40.840 a computer science guy, and he was also he was 233 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.559 close to his final year of university, again similar to me, 234 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:45.919 and he was also stuck at home. 235 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.320 And it made a good team. I came with my. 236 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.200 Math background so I could back up the theoretical foundations 237 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:55.679 of it, and he, with his computer science background, could 238 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.200 help me with the implementation of these protocols. So a 239 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.519 team was born and we spent about six to eight 240 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:05.240 months developing these protocols. And at that point COVID had 241 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.799 kind of lifted, but we had this MVP kind of 242 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.120 not you. I wouldn't even call it an MVP. It's 243 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.720 just proof of technology, proof that it can be done. 244 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:17.360 The first what we realized happened the first thing. West 245 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.080 time we suggested something like this, people thought, hey, can 246 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.720 this even be done? And so our first step was 247 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:25.240 to just show people that, yes, it can be done. 248 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.000 And so once we had something to show that it 249 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.360 can be done, such a technology is viable, then we Hey, look, 250 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.159 we have to raise more resources. We have to raise 251 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.639 more funding. So that's when we started shopping around and 252 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.120 we met a lot of people. We showed this too, 253 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.159 and the people who found it who were extremely supportive 254 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.399 and could see kind of the vision behind it where 255 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.960 folks at Catamounsers and so we raised our seed round 256 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:57.159 of financing with them, and then we had a lot 257 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:00.600 more resources to kind of get an office higher, more people, 258 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.600 put the product together in a more professional way, improve 259 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:08.240 the user experience. All of that improved some marketing efforts, 260 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:12.000 et cetera. But yeah, now that's where we are. We 261 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.440 were in the middle of it are product port launched 262 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.000 a couple of weeks ago and we're getting good users 263 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:19.600 growth so far. 264 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:21.320 That's great. Congratulations with that. 265 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.320 I really appreciate, right because right now with privacy, you're right, 266 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.799 most of the effort or attention goes to how can 267 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.919 we protect that unique identifier? But you're actually looking at 268 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:33.919 like how can I refuse a situation where you need 269 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.840 to aggregate it? So now like you know you have 270 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.960 all of this done in future, this is online, how 271 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.399 does that experience look like going back into the movie 272 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:44.360 theater saying I'm not going to give you the number. 273 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:45.399 What does that look like? 274 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:49.840 Well, yeah, so, because the protocol hasn't spread enough yet, 275 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:52.120 I still can't go to a business and say, hey, 276 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.879 I'm not going to give you my so right now. 277 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:56.600 The practice is I just. 278 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:59.919 Tell them I don't so they'd excuse. 279 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.519 Now, the brilliant excuse of getting my number is them. 280 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.759 Saying, we're going green and so we don't want to 281 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.200 print out an actual movie ticket or a receipt. We'd like, 282 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:10.200 just send it to your raft phone, and that's why 283 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:12.159 we need your number. I'm like, that's okay. I don't 284 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:15.120 mind a little bit of global warming if you can 285 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:19.039 print a ticket for me. So I just asked them 286 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.600 to print a physical ticket. Now, same thing with grocery stores. 287 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:25.360 I don't mind a physical receipt. But yeah, But the 288 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:30.200 plan is we think a lot of businesses are actually 289 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:34.360 losing out on quality customers by taking their phone number. 290 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.320 Imagine the last time you encountered a website and you 291 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:40.120 wanted to know a little bit more about the service 292 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.919 they provided, the product they sell, and you know, you 293 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.320 opened up their chat pot or you opened up their 294 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.720 contact page. The first thing you saw was they're asking 295 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.440 for your number of personal information. How many of those 296 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.639 times where you turned off by that and you said, hey, 297 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:55.720 it's not worth me putting in so much of my 298 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.120 personal information just to know a little bit of information 299 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.960 about that. So I think businesses are actually losing out 300 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.679 on their best customers because they're asking for this information. 301 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:11.159 Because they're best customers people who are affluent and reasonably intellectual. 302 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:15.799 These people are people who would be super turned off 303 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.960 by giving away the personal information. So what we're trying 304 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.320 to do going forward is set up small pilot programs 305 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:25.480 where we can actually make the case improve the case 306 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.639 that hey, you will actually increase your net lead creation, 307 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.720 and you can you will actually increase the number of 308 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.159 customers onward just by not asking for their personal info. 309 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.879 And we were in the process of setting those experiments up. 310 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:42.440 It's still going to be a couple of weeks since 311 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.600 until we set it up. But yeah, if those experiments 312 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:47.600 go well in a couple of years from now, I 313 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:50.440 would love to go to a movie theater and not 314 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:51.480 give my number. 315 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.440 More power more power to that, right, because especially right 316 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.159 coming up, like you said, right, intellectual afflent doesn't matter. 317 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.240 We also have protective population, right, Senior citizens' kids that 318 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.960 are coming into the space, I would love to have 319 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.840 a mechanism in place that protects them from giving out 320 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:07.919 that information, which. 321 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.440 Is going to be a huge thing. Right Yeah, that's the. 322 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.559 Point eventually for a lot of scams too. So that's 323 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:15.519 a really impa. 324 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.519 Think about AI. Think about the other side of AI. Look, 325 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.080 AI is only so powerful because of the data you 326 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.840 feet into it. And right now there's a lot of 327 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.240 data available because all of this data has been aggregated 328 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:31.279 around our personal identifiers. And right now, even though AI 329 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:35.080 is proceeding at a super good pace, the worst it 330 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.480 can do is still not that bad. The worst it 331 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:39.279 can do is like sell us on some stuff, not 332 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.679 just to do this or that. But it's going to 333 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:46.600 get even more sophisticated and complex, and I don't think 334 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:52.679 it's safe for us to be so vulnerable too. AI 335 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.639 is going bad. Think about it right now. The worst 336 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:58.799 thing you get is a spam or scam call. You 337 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:00.759 can most of the time you can tell something as 338 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.720 a scam that some of these calls and spam you 339 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.799 can easily identify spam, but only because most of these 340 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:09.759 spam calls are other humans on the other end trying 341 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:10.440 to orchestrate it. 342 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.960 But as AI gets more and more sophisticated, these cams 343 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.319 are going to be harder and harder to recognize, and 344 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.599 it's going to be very hard to continue a communication 345 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:22.039 system where everybody. 346 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.839 Is so accessible to everybody else. It's not hard for 347 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.640 people to get my phone number. My phone number is 348 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:28.599 published online. They just have to do a little bit 349 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.400 of googleg or the first business I have to give 350 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.400 my phone number two, they can just scrape my phone 351 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:35.480 number of that business. 352 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:37.599 So it's going to be very easy for AIR to 353 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:38.000 reach me. 354 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.680 Plus, all this data aggregated around the phone numbers is 355 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.960 going to make it very easy for AA to use 356 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.319 that channel of communication into me to make me do anything. 357 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:51.319 So I think going into this AI era, we have 358 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.880 to recognize the flip side of data aggregation and try 359 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.200 to make sure we're not just numbered sheep in the 360 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:03.240 face of AI. And there's some level of individual human protection. 361 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.279 That makes sense on RUTH So especially in the in 362 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:10.440 the world of AI. Right, I mean, we we just 363 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.960 can't be feeding into that big machine. 364 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:14.079 Yeah. 365 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.160 Right, So let's let's talk a little bit more about 366 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.880 the technology itself, or maybe let's just speak to the 367 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:27.440 poor tap itself. Right, So if I understand right, Let's 368 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:31.599 say you and I want to connect on it. Let's 369 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:33.759 say we meet at an event and we want to 370 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:37.440 stay in touch. You show me both of us download 371 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.119 the poor tap, You show me a QR code of starts, 372 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.920 I scan it, and you and I get connected. And 373 00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:48.119 let's say tomorrow you don't want to keep in touch 374 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:49.799 with me, or you just want to lose me. I 375 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.640 mean you can just say, you know, lose Anthony or whatnot, 376 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:55.559 and you know I can never ever get in touch 377 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.200 with you, right, I mean, that's certainly, at least in 378 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.480 the face of it, that's what I've seen happening. 379 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:01.920 Right. 380 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.920 First of all, I mean you can validate me if 381 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.799 that's right. But I mean, and secondly, maybe just for 382 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:08.759 the audience, I mean, just just tell a little bit 383 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:12.039 about how port works, what are some of the use 384 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:16.359 cases that people can use port for? And then maybe 385 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.079 once you're done with this, let's say phase zero or 386 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.720 phase one. I mean, what's your vision with quote if 387 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:24.880 you can talk about that a little bit lbs so. 388 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:26.960 Sure sounds good support. 389 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.119 The way we designed port is we want a port 390 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.759 to work in any situation that a phone number would work. 391 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.119 So the central idea behind the port app are these 392 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:38.400 instruments called ports. 393 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:39.559 So typically when we. 394 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.759 Want to connect with somebody, the connection instrument that we 395 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:43.920 use would be a phone number or an email ID 396 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.880 or a username. So the connection instrument in the port 397 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.759 product port app is something called a port. Now, the 398 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.799 difference between a port and a phone number is a 399 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.799 port is not a unique identifier ToView. A port is 400 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.400 a piece of single use cryptographic information. It can be 401 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:05.319