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Know your Power. 17 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.719 Estimated annuel bill of twenty six hundred and twenty nine 18 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.159 euro new customers only Thurship centis kent off smart all 19 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.399 day electricity unitrates in twenty nine percent of gassauns seaportcosh 20 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:01.520 Energy dot e for fullties and cis Oh hey. 21 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:03.960 It's that tiny dog that the passenger next to you 22 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.200 brought on the plane and you follow them on Instagram, 23 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.920 but you don't know how to bring it up casually. 24 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:12.239 Alliboard back with another episode of Ologies, but not just 25 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:16.840 any episode. We are creeking the door open and we're 26 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:21.040 stepping a foot into the chill of Spooktober. 27 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:22.280 That's right, kiddos. 28 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:26.799 Last year we had waldwall creepy halloweeny episodes in October, 29 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:32.719 like Osteology about bones, and Spidronology all about spiderwebs, and 30 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:37.560 cue Curvatology all about pumpkins, and it was so creepy. 31 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:42.120 Then then cut to us standing wide eyed holding twenty 32 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:45.840 twenty speer. So think of Spooktober this year as a 33 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.359 respite from the inferno of chaos that is an election 34 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:54.040 year pandemic. Let's chill out by talking about flesh eating birds. 35 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.359 But first we think, thank you to every single patron 36 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.680 at patreon dot com slash Ologies, I love you make 37 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.400 the show possible. Thank you to everyone for buying Ologies 38 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:08.360 shirts or a winter hat or a fall blanket or 39 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.879 face masks, which we now have at Ologiesmarch dot com. 40 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.159 Thanks to everyone who's writing the podcast and making sure 41 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:19.000 you're subscribed and telling friends and family, enemies, and of 42 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.800 course for those writing a review. I have been known 43 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.800 to read every single one. I read them, sometimes in 44 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.240 a deep Southampton in just to keep me going on 45 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:28.680 tough nights such as this one. 46 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:29.159 This week. 47 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.719 Bye JLU ninety eight, who says, beware, do you want 48 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:35.639 to become an avid birdwatcher, a taxidermist, an astronaut. If 49 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.000 you said no to any of those things, you're wrong. 50 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.400 And if you said yes, beware you will want to 51 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:43.919 pursue a college degree in everything. After listening to this podcast, 52 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.120 JLU ninety eight, thank you so much. 53 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:47.120 It's true. 54 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:50.960 Okay, chondrology it is word and Google confirmed it for me. 55 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:54.599 Just ask the two thousand and four paper titled Migratory 56 00:02:54.639 --> 00:03:00.159 connectivity in Bicknell's Thrush, locating missing populations with hydrogen isotopes. 57 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:02.919 So the word condor, by the way, just looked it up. 58 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:05.520 It means bird of prey and it comes from an 59 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.680 ink and word hunter, so now you know that, but 60 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.319 there's no relation to that other word. So this kondrologist, 61 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:15.479 I'm a fan of his on Twitter. He got his 62 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.520 bachelors in biology and his PhD in ecology and is 63 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.280 now an assistant professor in the Department of Geology and 64 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.240 Geography at West Virginia University and has been a researcher 65 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:31.680 on projects involving the decline of vultures in India and 66 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.599 how the landscape affects the recovery of the famed, almost 67 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:40.560 once extinct California condors. So let's dip our smooth skin 68 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:44.960 covered skulls into the festering slop of carry on talk 69 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:49.479 as we learn about vultures and gut eating and ecology 70 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:53.479 and wingspans and live cams and a comeback from the 71 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.439 brink of peril, and we summon up all kinds of 72 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.879 respect for one of the gothiest birds in the game 73 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:25.319 with chondrologist, doctor Jonathan C. Hall like a condor scientist, 74 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:28.639 I like you never even thought I'd ever get to 75 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:29.199 talk to one. 76 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.439 I'm so excited. 77 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.279 People are people are stoked awesome. And so you study 78 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.879 geography but also how geography impacts different species. 79 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.439 Right, So I'm actually not a geographer by training. So 80 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:46.319 my PhD is in ecology. So I got a degree 81 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:50.199 in evolution ecology and organismal biology. But my work is 82 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:53.639 very spatial, and oftentimes I think it's difficult for people 83 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:57.040 to wrap their brains around what geography is. You know, 84 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.759 you say geography and people think, oh, maps and capitals, 85 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.000 that geography is so much more. And I recently heard 86 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:10.079 a brilliant and famous geographer, doctor Ruth Wilson Gilmour, explained 87 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:16.399 geography as why things happen where they do. 88 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:22.319 Oh, once again, geographers study why things happen where they do. 89 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.519 That's beautiful. I've never heard that before. This is great 90 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:28.920 because geography, not being an ology, is a hard one 91 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:32.279 to sneak in. So you're helping me sneak in some geography. 92 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:34.920 Covering two bases. 93 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.439 And you know, tell me a little bit about like 94 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:39.319 where you grew up. What kind of kid were you? 95 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.680 Yes, I was the nerdy black kid forever and always 96 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.120 since day one. So I grew up in Columbia, Maryland, 97 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:51.879 which I think at one point was voted the number 98 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.639 one small city in the country. So I grew up 99 00:05:55.839 --> 00:06:01.639 very privileged economically. My folks worked in DC and in 100 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:04.920 Prince George's County. My dad's in public health, and my 101 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:07.439 mother is a high school guidance counselor. 102 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:08.160 Before that, she was a. 103 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.920 High school biology teacher. And I grew up as an 104 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.240 only child, so I'm very well adjusted. 105 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:14.759 My only child. 106 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:21.720 You know, it was a very good environment because, you know, 107 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:24.519 the neighborhood I was in, I had everything that I needed, right, 108 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:26.920 wasn't worried about where food was going to come from, 109 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:29.279 or you know, whether or not there was issues in 110 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:30.920 the home or anything like that, and so I had 111 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.839 a lot of time to just kind of like sit 112 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.240 and think and wonder about things. And my mother, being 113 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.199 a high school biology teacher for most of her career, 114 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:42.759 would always kind of her work would kind of spill 115 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:46.839 over into the home, and so, you know, she'd bring home, like, 116 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:50.800 you know, extra specimens that she was, you know, working 117 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:53.639 on for dissections. And my dad grew up fishing, and 118 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:55.360 so he would take me fishing all the time. And 119 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.000 so from a very early age, I was just really 120 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.399 curious about the natural world, curious about the creatures that 121 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.519 were there. And so one of my earliest memories growing 122 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.600 up was sitting down every Sunday night and turning on 123 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.759 PBS and watching nature and just being fascinated by all 124 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:14.079 of the interesting animals that were out there, and so 125 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:17.600 growing up, I wanted to always be associated with cool, 126 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:18.519 cool critters. 127 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:24.399 This next question is in regards to regurgitated for and 128 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.399 rodent bones. So starting off strong here charm school with 129 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.560 dad word owl barf. Did your mom emember bring how 130 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:32.839 many extra owl pellets? 131 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:39.680 Yes? Check button, Yes, they're so amazing. Yeah. 132 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.160 My mother was running a what was it like a 133 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.480 summer like a summer science camp or helping out with 134 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.839 the summer science camp. And I got to go and 135 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:50.639 it was really boring because for a while because she 136 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:52.600 was lecturing and I was like, I don't know eight 137 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:54.879 And then when the owl pellets came out, I was like, 138 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:58.879 oh my goodness, it was awesome. 139 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.879 I swear it's like a kinder surprise egg. It's just 140 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.360 like something that's like who knows what it's. 141 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.600 Gonna be, so you put it together. And were you 142 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:10.160 ever a bird nerd? 143 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:11.519 No? 144 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.720 And it's funny because I don't. I don't yet consider 145 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:19.120 myself a bird nerd. And there's a graduate student in 146 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:22.120 my lab, Darren Gross, who actually works for the Ventana 147 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:25.240 Wildlife Society. I actually have two graduate students who worked 148 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:28.040 in my lab who worked for the Ventana Wildlife Society, 149 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:29.839 and Darren is a burden nerd and I tease him 150 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:33.519 all the time about being a bird nerd and identifying things. 151 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:39.000 And I've always liked the predatory animals. Raptors have always 152 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.480 been something that's really interesting to me. 153 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.720 Well, I think when it comes to condors too, not 154 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:52.480 hard to identify. Nope, they are giant and numbered. That 155 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:57.159 would be a condor. Yeah, and this is so exciting. So, 156 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.759 you know, especially being in California, I don't know if 157 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.679 I've ever seen a condor in the wild, but I 158 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:07.919 have friends who have and they say it's like time 159 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:13.720 stops and this huge wingspan Josh, yes, okay, quick aside, 160 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:17.000 how giant are these wingspans? We're going to find out 161 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.159 in a minute. But it's about one point seventy five 162 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:26.120 alley wards twenty pounds of inky mystery bird hummeling the 163 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.919 air above you to take flight. But yeah, so I've 164 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.600 never seen one in the wild. But what was the 165 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:34.039 first time you ever saw a California condor? 166 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:35.080 And are they even called that? 167 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:36.600 Yes? Okay? 168 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:39.080 Are most people just call them condors? And you're in 169 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.399 South America, then there's a different condor there. It's bigger, 170 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.799 than the one we have it here in North America. 171 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:46.320 That's a good question. It was the first time I 172 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:46.919 saw condor. 173 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.320 I'm trying to think it was a Bitter Creek, one 174 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.879 of the wildlife refuges a bit aways north of LA 175 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.440 We were driving up to the flight pen that the 176 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.799 US Fishing Wildlife Service runs is part of their condo 177 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:01.840 management program, and I think the first condor I saw 178 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:04.720 was one of the older birds that had been that 179 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:07.799 was sitting on top of the flight pen. What you 180 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:13.320 described it as like time stopping. I was just like whoa, 181 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:15.399 and as we pulled up. As we pulled up, I 182 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.600 think it took off. And then that was another just 183 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:23.919 like what moment, you know, when it spread its wings 184 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:26.080 and kind of took off. And so I think it 185 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:27.720 took me a little bit of time to get adjusted 186 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.159 because you know, I had been reading about them, and 187 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.000 obviously when I was when I was younger reading about them, 188 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.480 I had that you know, Natural geographic kids, and had 189 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:39.840 an article on what the captive breeding program was all 190 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:42.799 about and the little puppet feeding the baby condors, and 191 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:46.519 so you know, it was like my childhood catching up 192 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:48.600 with me in real life, which is really amazing. 193 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:53.559 So what exactly is a condor what kind of separates 194 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:57.039 them from maybe turkey vultures that we see? 195 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:59.960 How can I put this? Why are they so cool? 196 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.039 Biologically speaking? 197 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.759 Yeah, condors are sort of this class of like very large, 198 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.200 obligate scavengers birds that primarily are only feed on carrion 199 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:14.879 dead things. And there actually used to be more species 200 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:18.519 of condors or birds that we that would be classified 201 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:20.559 as condors in this part of the world. When you're 202 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:22.600 talking about a condor, you're talking about a bird that 203 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.960 only feeds on dead animals and essentially like a big 204 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:31.840 ass bird, much much larger than turkey vultures or other raptors. 205 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:34.879 The California condors wingspan can be up to nine nine 206 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:45.080 and a half feet wide. Yeah feet what Yeah, Yeah, 207 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:47.120 that's that's kind of the maximum. I mean like seven 208 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:49.039 eight seven eight nine is. 209 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:50.639 About you know where they're at. 210 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:52.519 But yeah, there's some some big ones in the Amian 211 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:57.720 condors ten feet oh wingspan, yeah, which is just bonkers, 212 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:02.440 but you know, there was species, there were some species 213 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.519 of condos that are o extinct that were even larger 214 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:04.840 than that. 215 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:06.879 Right, Oh my god. 216 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:12.840 Yeah, okay, quick establishing scene here. So condors are super 217 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:18.080 social birdies, and they're considered New World vultures whose bodies 218 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.759 are mostly black with large white triangles on the undersides 219 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.480 of their wings. And they have this ruddy orangish bald 220 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:31.039 head that's ensconced in a spiky black feather boa that 221 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.559 shits creaks. Moira Rose might envy. 222 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.639 Now I'm flattered beyond all. 223 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.840 Reason anyway, Condors they're huge, kind of like a baby 224 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:42.840 dragon or if melissafant low key eight rotting flesh, and 225 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:45.759 they are bigger than turkey vultures. Turkey vultures only have 226 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:50.080 about six foot wingspans, but condors are smaller than the 227 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:55.159 giant wandering albatross, who can have up to twelve foot wingspans. Now, 228 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.440 what about giant birds of the past. Well, about a 229 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:02.960 decade ago, scientists discover fossil remains of an extinct seabird 230 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.360 with a seventeen foot wingspan, which is about as long 231 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.559 as the average minifan. Now that will become more important 232 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:15.240 later on, but for now, why so, why do you 233 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.799 think they're so big? Is there something also geographically about 234 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.720 the hills of California and the updrafts and the coast, 235 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.879 like why are they so huge. 236 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.759 Yeah, So you know, I mean the condors evolved in 237 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:33.080 spaces where there were very very large mammals to feed on, right, 238 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.200 And so in thinking about those Pleistocene North America, in 239 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:38.759 this part of the world, there were just you know, 240 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.399 just a lot of big mammals, you know, sloth bears 241 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.600 and marsupial lions and all these giant mammals that are 242 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:46.639 no longer around. And so you know, you have these 243 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.840 giant mammals that are living and dying on the landscape, 244 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:53.840 and so the niche of cleaning up those those carcasses 245 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.879 gets filled by birds that you know, can eat a lot, 246 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.519 can grow really big, and the landscape allows them to 247 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.480 kind of cover a lot of distance, and so if 248 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.799 you're a larger bird, you can cover a longer distance. Also, 249 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.759 if you're a larger bird on the ground, you can 250 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.200 kind of fight off smaller scavenging birds. So there's like 251 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.960 a pecking order of those sorts of things. The environment 252 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.720 that these birds evolved in was really conducive to them 253 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:18.519 being really big. 254 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.279 It gave them an advantage over turkey vultures and other 255 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:23.279 scavenging birds. 256 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:27.919 Are there big enough animals still to support. 257 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.080 Them, Yes, And a lot of that support comes from 258 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.919 what sort of the settlar ecologies have kind of introduced 259 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.120 into this landscape through cattle farming, right, and so cows 260 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.639 are cattle are really big animals, and so condors. 261 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:43.480 Feed a lot on cattle. 262 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:46.799 But there's still you know, animals like elk and mule 263 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:49.279 deer and that part of the part of the country. 264 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:51.200 And then the birds that are on the coast, you know, 265 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.919 feed on marine mammals, right and so, oh yeah. 266 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:59.159 I never even thought about a condor eating a whale carcass. Yes, 267 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.799 Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, I 268 00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:06.480 can't oh the smells. I mean, okay, wait, hold on 269 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.159 one second. 270 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:17.399 Yes, oh my god, thank god. 271 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.200 We edit because I just had to have a conversation 272 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.039 about whether or not my tiny poodle. 273 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:23.559 Pooped, So you should keep that in. 274 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:29.759 I mean, oh my god, I mean parenting during COVID 275 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.840 am I right? JK, I have It's so easy. I 276 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.080 do not know how parents are doing it. I don't 277 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.080 even have to teach her to read. She keeps pushing 278 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:41.320 the door open with her snoop. But okay, so condors 279 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:45.120 feeding on marine mammals, oh, and seals, I guess too. 280 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.440 Ye, seals are a big part of the diet of 281 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:51.720 coastal condors that occupy the coastal area. Yeah, oh my. 282 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.919 God, Okay, I have seen videos. Okay, I had watched 283 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.879 a video put out by West Virginia University documenting doctor 284 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.000 Hall's traveled California for his field recent search in Maricopa, 285 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:05.519 California at the Bitter Creek National Wildlife Refuge. And it's 286 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:09.960 set among these golden hills with oak trees and populated 287 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.039 by giant frickin' birds. I had questions. I've seen videos 288 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.600 with you. I have seen videos of the refuge that 289 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:22.360 you do some research at their beaks. What are we 290 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:27.519 even talking about? With these beaks a whole lot of pain? Yeah? 291 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:29.519 Have they ever nipped you? 292 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:35.000 I have not been nipped in a way that was ornery. 293 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:39.240 I've been nipped in a playful way by a captive 294 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:44.440 condor named Dolly who lives at the Los Angeles Zoo, 295 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.159 and I think as a chick. She fell out of 296 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.159 the nest and like really messed up her wing. It 297 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.360 was broken beyond the repair that she would be able 298 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.840 to fly. She's a kind of an instructional condor and 299 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:03.519 very tame. Has a good relationship with one of the 300 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.720 keepers at the Los Angeles Zoo, Mike Wallace. I just 301 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.960 wanted to make sure they're recognizing the folks who work 302 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:12.400 with condors on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, 303 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:16.319 because I've learned so much from them and like they 304 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.839 are such badasses. I mean, these are the folks who 305 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.960 are repelling down sheer cliff faces into a condor nest 306 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.119 to like check on the chick and having the parents 307 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.359 land on their head and like bite their chest and 308 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:31.240 all the stuff. So yeah, I've good shout out to 309 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:37.680 Mike Wallace, Joseph Brandt, Mollie, Steve Kirkland, Joseph Burnett, Darren Gross, 310 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:38.480 Evan mcgreeth. 311 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:40.680 Oh my goodness, I know I'm leaving people out. 312 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:44.000 Doctor Hall has so much gratitude for his colleagues and 313 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.559 so feel free during this episode to take a large 314 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.319 glug of whatever is in nearby beverage or do a 315 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.119 tiny imperceptible butt dance each time. He's so kind and 316 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:56.319 that should be celebrated. 317 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:01.240 I love it. It's like an Oscar speech. People taking 318 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:03.000 the work possible exactly. 319 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:08.640 Like they're all really interesting, awesome, caring, loving, wonderful brilliant people, 320 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.000 and they are what makes my work possible. They are 321 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:15.000 what makes these birds so interesting. Like there's some one 322 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.599 setting up condracams all this stuff, so got to make 323 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:21.319 sure that I thank them because they're just awesome humans. 324 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.039 Can you can you look at condor cams? Is that 325 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:28.039 just for researchers? Is that just for chondrologists? Or can 326 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:29.440 the general populace. 327 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.200 The general populist, can can can look up condo cams? 328 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.680 I'll uh yeah, I will definitely send you a link. 329 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.400 That you can and that I did. And when I 330 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.319 opened the window on the Ventana Wildlife Societies page at 331 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:46.279 bantanaws dot org to see a pair of giant bald 332 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:51.519 headed hunched birds bearing these red numbered wing tags tending 333 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:55.559 to one fuzzy, tiny little gray chick, I made like 334 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.319 a squawk of joy. I freaked out, and then I 335 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.160 just started to exting the link to people. 336 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.960 Every year, you know, condors are making babies in the wild, 337 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.960 and these nests have some of these nests have cameras 338 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.640 set up in them so you can watch a condor 339 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.960 kind of develop over time. It's really cute. 340 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:17.279 How many now are in existence. 341 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:18.160 Condos. 342 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.880 Condos are on the verge of extinction. 343 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:23.640 And how threatened did they get. 344 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.640 They're still critically in dangered. They're about five hundred and 345 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:32.559 ten five and twenty condors in existence, which is a 346 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.240 big improvement from the you know, less than thirty that 347 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:40.000 were around in the mid eighties. Yeah, so it's a 348 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.799 it's a big conservation success story. And so just over 349 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:48.920 half of those just over five hundred birds are living 350 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.920 outside of human captivity, right, So they're out there in 351 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.000 the world. And there's a couple of different population centers 352 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.440 for the birds. And so there's there's two populations in 353 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:01.599 central California, the Big syrupop which is on the coast, 354 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:04.079 and then a little bit more inland is the Pinnacles 355 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.720 National Forest population. And then there's the Southern California population, 356 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.079 which is the one that I've been working with. There 357 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.720 about one hundred birds, and then there's another one hundred 358 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:17.799 or so I think out in the Grand Canyon sort 359 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.559 of Arizona, Utah area. And then there is a population 360 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:23.680 of about forty in Baja Mexico. 361 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.039 Oh yeah, I didn't even realize that we had them 362 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:28.279 in southern California. 363 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:28.839 Oh yeah. 364 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.079 I think one of the awesome things about being a scientist. 365 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.400 Being a researcher is getting to travel and meeting new 366 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:41.079 people and more importantly, eating all the foods of the area. 367 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.440 So every time I come up to LA I'm just like, Okay, 368 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:44.400 where are we. 369 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.759 Going on the topic of research. Let's back up a 370 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:51.000 little bit and get some of Jonathan's history, which I 371 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.279 derailed earlier by asking about the owl vomit. 372 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:59.079 Let's see, I started out from PBS at home to 373 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.960 wanting to be a veterinarian. I went to Morehouse College. 374 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.079 Some say it's the best historically black college in the 375 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.839 in the world. I tend to agree, but you know, 376 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.759 you might have others who might disagree they're wrong. That's cool, 377 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:21.039 shout out to Morehouse. And so I went to Morehouse 378 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:26.119 as a biology major, and by that time I was 379 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.640 not satisfied with wanting to be a vetinarian. I wanted 380 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:34.359 to work with animals that were less conventional than donson cats, 381 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:38.160 and then also not realizing that veterinarians work with all 382 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.640 sorts of you know, unconventional pets and things like that, 383 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:43.400 And so I had a lot of learning to do 384 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.640 about what animals a vetinarian worked with. But at the 385 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:47.119 time I was like, oh, yeah, I don't want to 386 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.799 work with just dogson cats, And so I wanted to 387 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:55.200 become a snake venom biologist. And so I had heard 388 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.400 about this snake venom curator who, over the course of 389 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.640 several decades injected himself with a diluted cocktail of snake venom. 390 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:05.599 Oh my god, to build up an immunity. 391 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:09.279 I think he's talking about Bill Host, a Florida venom 392 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:15.680 milker who headed up Miami's serpentarium laboratories Miami Serpentarium founded 393 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:20.079 in nineteen forty eight and nearly died twenty times from 394 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.079 venomous bites. Yet he lived to the ripe age of 395 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.559 one hundred, probably without much of a health insurance or 396 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:27.920 life insurance policy. 397 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:29.599 And I was like, Oh, that's the coolest thing. 398 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.240 And so this man, you know, after a period of 399 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.599 time of taking a cocktail of snake venom, was immune 400 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:37.759 the snake venim And so he'd been bitten by all 401 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.839