Speaker 1: Can God rescue people from same sex attraction?
Speaker 2: He can?
Speaker 1: Does he always know? There is a group called Change
Movement that Change Movement dot com and the executive pastor there,
Leon yonk joins us to talk just about this and
thank you to Visible at go bisible dot com and
of course to God Almighty.
Speaker 3: The Todd Herman Show is one hundred percent disapproved, but
big pharma technocrats and tyrans everywhere from the high mountains
of Free America. Here's the Emerald City exile Todd Herman.
Speaker 1: Today is the day the Lord has made and these
are the times to which God is the Saturd we
shall live. And Pastor Leon Yank joins me Change Movement
dot Com. Good to have you here, Leon, thanks for
coming on. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: I thought good to be you. So.
Speaker 1: I know you have a personal testimony related to this,
and let's start there, because I found that personal testimonies
and what God can do in people's lives is very
compelling for others and inspiring. So just set forth talk
to us.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I grew up in the eighties. I grew up
in South Africa on My dad was a farmer, My parents.
You know, pretty happy childhood. You know, loved being out
on the farm and you know, doing life without a
lot of technology. And at the you know, went to
Jurchs from a young age, which you know, going to
churchs was kind of part of the culture I lived in.
You know, it was a place for connection with people
on a Sunday. You know, you're pretty rural, and you know,
at the age of eighty years old, I got involved
in sex play with other boys the same age as me.
It created a lot of confusion in me, a lot
of shame. Also felt good, but I also knew it
was wrong. From what I've picked up from going to church.
I started living with the I kind of had this fear,
like you know, from my understanding at a young age
from going to church, like this is like the ultimately
you know this and there's like, no, it's defiling. It's
worse than anything else, you know, and just like in
this constant battle and shame. And then you know, at
the age of thirteen, I went to boarding school, which
is quite common because of this stance, you know, you
can't rive every day, and that's when I the first
time I started feeling suicidal.
Speaker 2: In the priest.
Speaker 4: You know, I was like thirteen years old. I was
sitting on my bed with the spills and got in
the wind in my life. Without me even knowing it
at the time, there was a boy that was two
years older than me in school. I woke, you know,
I wrote a little note and gave it to him
and gave the pills to him. He didn't make a
big scene. Now I know he was a Christian, but
he didn't make a big scene at the time. But
it just started looking out for me.
Speaker 2: And God is so good.
Speaker 4: I just had coffee with this guy this January, like
twenty five years later, and we.
Speaker 2: Got to talk and I got to tell the story.
Speaker 4: Well, it was just like this beautiful moment, you know,
and his son is now in the same school, and
it was just this beautiful moment. But you know, unfortunately,
during my five years in boarding school, you know, during school,
I got I was involved in sexual encounters with one
other boy. You know, each time it feels nice, but
then you know, it's just this tremendous shame and guilt.
Speaker 2: I'm just wrestling and inside all the time, you know, and.
Speaker 4: I kind of you know, the environment I grew up
one you know I was good in I wouldn't say
I excelled this, but you know, I liked sports. I
played cricket, tennis, I played a bit of rugby, and
you know, I just, you know, I was just like
one of the boys.
Speaker 2: Really I didn't you know, I felt like I feed
it in with that.
Speaker 4: But you know, there was this thing in the inside
of me, you know, all of a sudden, my friends
are like, ah, they're starting a bit to date girls
and talking about the girls, and I'm like, wow, I'm
not like feeling I feel an attraction to boys, you know,
And I'm like, oh no, this is like terrible, and
I'm like crying out to God and I'm like, God,
if you are real, if you can change everything, you know,
take this away.
Speaker 2: And nothing happened.
Speaker 4: And you know, then that's when I was eighteen, I
moved to the UK, you know, which was common in
those days. You know a lot of people took like
I was originally just going to take a gap year.
And you know that's when I really, you know, I
stopped going to church because you know, growing up with
my parents, I kind of had to go. And then
in school, it was like a Christian based school so
everything I kind of did because I had to. And
then you know, living I must say during this time.
So now the world the day is crying like well
you can left as right. You know, it doesn't like
a big thing, but you know, you I start to
see in the news like same sex relationships and you
yet about the claps and things. But somehow in my insight,
you know, even though I wasn't working with God, I
need you know, something was just I'm like, I don't
want that God, you know, and I would still cry
odd to God.
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking with Leon about God's design for
his life and God's design to bring us all back
to him, God the Father, as many as will come.
God also designed our bodies to be understandable, and there
are miraculous things that we can do when we understand
human body. At part of Art to Mexico, there's a
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Speaker 4: You know then I just you know, I got stuck
in maybe drinking, pornography, masturbation. You know, I just went
down the cycle of trying to sell to self and
I'm just feeling.
Speaker 2: I was feeling, and you know, on.
Speaker 4: The outside you would have said, oh, it's the life
of the party, but on the inside, I was slowly dying.
Speaker 2: It really felt like I was living a double life
in some ways.
Speaker 4: So I'm working for this company and one of my colleagues,
bless her, she went through this really difficult time. She
started going to church and then she invited me to churts.
I think this is a nine, you know, and that
was my reintroduction to churchs. And I walked in the
church the first time. I thought the people are crazy,
they clapping as they're waiting flats, but yet they felt
so free, and you know, that was like my introduction
back into churchs.
Speaker 2: So then she moved away. And then about two years later.
Speaker 4: So this was like middle of students and the twelve
I'm again at my lowers low. I'm like, I just
want to end my life. I'm crying out to God.
The feelings is not going away. I feel how bless
and what's the point of living? And I'm like, you know,
somehow the spirit whispered to me. You know, I didn't
know it was elispired at that time, but go to
churchs So went to chairs the Sunday and God just
had all the pieces lined up. I turned up at
jets and they talked about Alpha course that was starting
the following week. You know Alpha course is it's quite
big in the UK. It's about exploring Christianity and you
can ask any question. And you know, I had like
in my first group where I had like a Muslim,
I had kept you know, there was all different background
people and it's really about having a discussion and asking questions.
And the very first night, the lady next to me
asked the past a question that is really the question
I wanted to ask, but I wasn't going to ask.
And she asked how they would treat somebody. I can't
remember exactly how she phrased it, but it was along
the line she had a friend or family member that
was you know, sexually reship struggling, and how they would
reat this person if he comes to church. And the
way the pastor answered that question was with such love
and compassion. It just I mean, I was like, well
I can't trust these people.
Speaker 2: Beautiful, So I did this course. God just connecting with people.
Speaker 4: You know, every Sunday thought I would sit in the
back road of the church and I'm trying. I like,
I just want to run out after the service, and
every time somebody would come and speak to me, and
I'm like, what is wrong with these people?
Speaker 2: Why are they so friendly?
Speaker 4: But every week, you know, people would just connect with
me and I started, you know, finding a place and
then the friends who did Actually the one Sunday I'm
sitting in churchs I'm again thinking I'm not going to
come back next week. You know, for me, it was
scary to go to church on my own and you
walk in and you know, you kind of alone. Where
do you fit in? And I'm just I just had
a sport. I'm not going to come back Sunday and
somebody come up to me and say, hey, come and
say to us, I mean and God is like every
time I'm trying to you know, God just send somebody.
And you know, so I joined a small group. You know,
I had to take a risk. You know, this was
a risky for me to go to somebody's house. It
was like all new, you know, and they would worship together,
they would read the Bible and then I have small
group discussions, and you know, I'm just at this point,
I'm like, this is weird, but somehow I feel some
kind of peace when I go there, you know, and
there's two guys, one guy in my small group. He
took my phone number and he said, hey, we really
want to connect with you. And I read the Bible
with you and I'm going to send you message. And
I in my head, I'm thinking, you are crazy. Why
do you want to read the Bible on a Wednesday?
Speaker 1: But I'm going to go with it on Wednesday?
Speaker 4: You know, isn't it like a Sunday thing? And you know,
I knew from growing up. You know, my mom would
always think, you know, you should read your Bible. But
I just you know, I wasn't in that rhythm. I wasn't,
you know, you know, I'm it's like being saved together,
saved all over.
Speaker 2: And you know, these two.
Speaker 4: Guys, they we would get together and have a meal together,
and you know, it was just this amazing time, you know,
of connection. And then we read this book like Finding
Your Identity in Christ. We were reading this book together
and we would pray for each other. And about two
months in, but it's like a marked Rascal book Who
Do You Think You Are? And it was it just
folk like, you know what I needed to hear in
that moment. God used that book so powerfully because we
would really you know, each week we do a better
homework and own and then we come together and discuss it.
About two months in, I'm like, I need to tell
this guys, this struggle that I've been having. But you know,
it's it's really really scary.
Speaker 2: Gosh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, once I've said it, I'm not getting be able
to take it back right, And you know, you're really
giving somebody your most deeper secret and what are they
going to do with it?
Speaker 2: So we're at the house and I already decided in.
Speaker 4: My mind they probably gonna reject me, like I'm going
to walk out of you in shame and this is
going to be really painful, And I say to them,
bear with me. I'm like sweating. I'm sitting on the
couch for ten minutes, and finally I'm getting the words
out here. At this point, I'm thirty thirty one years
old and this is the first time I'm eva stating
this with anybody. My goodness, and I cannot tell it
was like as soon as I've said it. It was
like this weight, that's what was on my shoulders. It
was just somebody just lifted it off. It was like
this wow feeling, and you know what, they just looked
at me the same like, you know.
Speaker 1: Wow, you have some problems.
Speaker 4: So yeah, you have problems too, and yeah, and they
just you know, they just loved me with me, They like,
you know, we don't really know what to do, but
you know, we're going to walk with you.
Speaker 2: And you know, that was like so so ealing, you know,
finding people, you.
Speaker 4: Know, I was I thought I was going to be rejected,
and you know, and just seeing God's love and his
grace through those other people. So then fast forward, you know,
the next January, January two thirteen. So at this point,
you know, I'm may Eavy smoke and I'm smoking between
twenty and forty cigarettes a day, and I've tried to.
Speaker 2: Stop smoking four or five times.
Speaker 4: It's really difficult, right, And January two thirteen, these guys
pray for me and like that. You know, I haven't
had a craving since. And I think that's the first
time I saw the power of God in my own life.
I'm like, I know how difficult that was I couldn't
do that, And the fact that that just went like that,
I'm like, Wow, this God, I'm learning getting to know you.
Speaker 2: Yes, He's a good God.
Speaker 1: Yes, Praise God. As we talk with Leon here further,
we're going to talk about money and how the Change
movement might be able to use your money. Yep, I'm
going to make a pitch for that. I'm also going
to remind you that this is if you're looking at
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you know, then the journey just continue.
You know, I got just blacked into church. I served
a bunch of places. You know, I would always encourage
people I don't know. I started on the welcome team,
in the coffee team, and you know, wherever I could serve.
You know, eventually did some kids work because it was
fun for me to get to learn the Bible. English
is my second language, you know, so to get to
learn the Bible with the kids in kids work was
just a lot of fun. And you know, then got
you know, I was like, you know, I had a
lot of friends, but I didn't have a lot of
friends that really know me, you know, my deepest and
this was like a whole new level for me. You know, God,
you know, brought these brothers alongside me. You know, I
had four or five other men. You know, I had
like all kinds, you know, I had like brothers, and
then I had like moms and dads. You know, it
was at families and these you know, my friendships through
these men. You know, they didn't have the same struggle
I did. There had other struggles. But that was so
so illing for me. You know, those guys came alongside
me and said to me, we love you. You know
the first few times I couldn't even say that back.
You know, I just didn't grow up like that, you know.
Or they would give me a uk and I would
be like so tense because I was so used to
unhealfy touch like this, you know.
Speaker 2: But God used that, you know, uses people to love
me and yes, to bring you know, to bring ealing
in my life.
Speaker 4: And then I got baptized, and I mean, I've forgot
now how many people wrote me the verse two Crenthians
five seventeen. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, then you
know your new creations, that all this gone, the newest come.
And I was like wow, you know, just you know,
I couldn't grasp the verse in that moment. But you know,
later on, I realized, like, wow, I'm really a new creation.
You know, my identities in Christ I was my great identity.
Wasn't this for a long time. Now it's like a
whole new person.
Speaker 2: And you know, then it came.
Speaker 4: I went through a journey, you know, four or five years,
still struggling with pornography and masturbation, and you know, and
then God, you know, God was so gracious. He didn't say, oh,
you're going to be you know, we're going to do
all this now. It was a time, you know, he
was it took time. Okay, now we're going to work
on this.
Speaker 2: Now we're going to work on this. And then eventually,
you know, I'm like, I open up.
Speaker 4: To the guys, you know, and at that time, I
think four of my friends, guy friends came alongside me
and we created like this WhatsApp group and you know,
that was my breaking out of pornography and masturbation. You know, like,
now I'm going to be accountable. You know, I'm going
to tell these guys when I'm struggling. And you know,
that was like another you know, I just wasn't used
to that type of especially with other guys, you know,
sharing these things and then you know, fast forward from
the then, I kind of was in this place where
I'm like, well, I'll this be a Christian that struggle.
Speaker 2: With same sex attraction. This will be my thing your cross.
Speaker 4: Yeah I never thought, but you know, in the back
of my I'm kind of still thinking, well, God, you know,
reading God's work and all the medicals is doing God can.
Speaker 2: Actually do this, but maybe just not for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And Preston in eighteen, I went to this conference in
northern California just this It was like a worship conference,
and one of my bodies is with me, and the
first night during worship, I felt list better talking speaking
to me. You know, It's like that feeling that I
know inside that God is starting to work on me
on the way I see myself and my sexuality. And
the second I continued and I'm telling my body like
I think God's doing something. God speaking to me about this,
and he knew me pretty well at the time, you know,
and it's like, okay, yeah, just lean in and see
what God does. So this up is going on for
three days and then the Tuesday morning, I'm staying at
a friend's house in town in the Bay Area, I'm
sleeping out in the living room and I wake up,
and as soon as I woke up, it was like
I heard the voice I've got in my ad you
are free. I've never had it like that before. I've
never had it like that since. But you know, it's
like I know in my knowing that God speaking to me.
And I knew what he was speaking about because the
last three days he started speaking to me about my sexuality, goodness,
everything that feels different but also the same. It's like
the weird, weird dynamic.
Speaker 2: But I knew.
Speaker 4: You know, I got so much hope in that moment
from God, and you know, then the journey started.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: Actually, during the same time that conference, I got four
prophetic words that were so similar.
Speaker 2: And these are words from other people, words from other people. Yeah,
so you know, I'm standing in line and this pastor
from Canada.
Speaker 4: Gives me this way and I'm like, well, yeah, whatever,
I'm thinking, my it's it's just random. But then a
second time, a third time, and it's from a random
people that I don't know, and they spoke things into
my life.
Speaker 2: You know. One of it was about where God's going
to take me. And then I'm going to move.
Speaker 4: You know, I just two years before started what I
thought was my job where I'm going to retire. Yeah,
so you know that instead, you know, And when that
happened four times, I'm like, this is really God speaking
to me.
Speaker 2: And you know, I went and.
Speaker 4: Said and prayed and I felt God said I need
to lean into that. And one of it was applying
to go to ministry school, you know. And then I
you know, I'm like, okay, I'm going to do that.
So I went back applied for ministry school. I'm like, God,
if this is you, You're good with opening doors and
closing doors that's not supposed to be open, but all
the doors just open up.
Speaker 2: I went back.
Speaker 4: I'm sitting with my boss, you know, that December, and
we're doing an appraisal for the following year. Bear in mind,
my boss is not a believer, you know, at that time,
and she's starting to talk about the next year. And
I told her, hang on, I need to tell you this.
God's been speaking to me about, you know, going to
America and doing this. And you know, even after I
told her that, she was so kind. You know, she
didn't tell eight office, which was in a different country
at that moment. You know, I got a pyrise that
decem but I got a Christmas bonus.
Speaker 2: Still. It was you know, God was just I could
see God's blessing on my life in that moment.
Speaker 1: Man, if you're like me, it's almost like Leon's life
could be a movie. Hey, that's an idea. Maybe this
is a pitch we could take to Angel Studio. After all,
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vote on the movies and series they create, and they
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Speaker 2: Could dig this.
Speaker 1: This takes the Book of Acts and it relocates it
into the modern era that is sort of our time.
This is a nation of a censorship state, a state
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Speaker 4: And then you know, came to America, did ministry school
and then I'm sitting in ministry school in my first
year and I Ken Williams and Elizabeth Warning, who's the
co founders of Jamee's movement, and these guys come out
and they speak and I'm like, oh my word, there's
more people that's got this testimony and that's walked through
with us. And that's where I got connected with Ken,
And you know, then I went on this. You know,
I think that first two years when I was America,
probably three years, was all about God rewiring my mind.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I keep you know, Romans twelve, you know, being transformed
on and newing of your mind and just reading up
about the brain. And there's a doc, doctor Caroline Leave,
that's this amazing. I can't forgot the book's name but
there's a forty day brain detox in it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I mean it was just like transforming my life,
you know.
Speaker 4: And then I'm like, I was looking at myself a
certain way for thirty years and believing the lies.
Speaker 2: And God was just starting to work with me, you know,
and it was it did.
Speaker 4: It was a lot of art work to shift my
thinking the way I see myself loving myself and yeah,
and there is this history and yeah I am to that,
you know, you know, I would still my journey was Okay,
now now I'm changed, but now I need to walk
that out and you know, our temptations that might come,
but okay, that's not who I am, you know God,
And I just started.
Speaker 2: This continuous dialogue with God, like, God, what do you
say about this? Is that true?
Speaker 4: No? And distinguishing the voice you know, it's just my voice,
it's just the enemy. Is that God speaking to me?
And just learning to you God's voice? And yeah, and
that's I mean, I'm just you know, that's where my
heart really started aking. For Oh well, I hate to
see you know, the situation I was on in feeling
suicidal and hopeless and God stand this for me, and like,
oh wow, like how can I how can I be
involved in help other people? And yeah, that's where so
I was meeting with Ken and deciding where to do
my internship in school, and you know, we're trying to
figure out, well, you should be with a dad or
you should be with this person.
Speaker 2: And I'm looking one day and I'm like, I should
be with you.
Speaker 4: You know, did my internship with them, and you know,
and just you know, being under their leadership and you know,
coming in and just diving into you know, Leizbeth. That's
incredible teaching on biblical sexual sexuality, sexual ethics, and yeah,
and it's just such a joy to be here and
now to be able to disciple other men that's on
this journey and to give like like really these hope
for this and for most, for most of it, it's
a journey. You know, God can God can do something
in an instant instant, but you know, for most it's
a journey.
Speaker 1: Leon just praise God and so inspiring what you've heard,
what I've heard from you, And I think the Church
has made this tremendous mistake of and you talked about
this making same sex activity or attraction the special sin,
this abomination among all abominations, and yeah, the Old Testament
says that. And guess what it says a lot of
things are abominations. Yeah, a whole number of things. This
encourages me and says listening to you, though. I interviewed
a woman who for about four years had lost her
kids because she became dreadfully addicted to heroin. And she
went through treatment programs in Seattle, and true story, she'd
walk out of a month long treatment program, they would
open the doors, you know, give her stuff back, open
the doors, goodbye, good luck, and within five feet someone
would offer her free heroin.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: And they just prayed on people coming out of those places.
And everybody knew this. So when she eventually realized that
she can't get well in Seattle, that she needs to
go to a different place, and she had a court
ordered thing, as she begged the judge, please not Seattle,
Please let me go to someplace where this doesn't happen.
And the judge didn't know what happened, he said, everybody
else knew. So she went to a rural area, she
got treatment, and she stayed there leon there was no
one out there offering her heroin. She got a job
praise God. She went back to church, got intervened in
her life, she got her kids back, but she swears
had she not gotten to that rural place, she never
would have gotten off. My question for you is you
confessed to godly men. Yeah, you confess to your same
sex attraction, your struggles with that. I assume the activity
undertaken and they accepted you, and they had that response
a lot of us. I was like, wow, you sin too,
look at that. Yeah, have you ever thought about what
would have happened if the enemy or you'd allowed yourself
to have the enemy take you into a different place
where you confessed and men said, oh, there's nothing wrong
with that.
Speaker 2: No, we do that too.
Speaker 1: Is that Have you cycled on that mentally?
Speaker 4: But yeah, I've thought about that. You know, you get
the gay filming church now, you know. And I'm like,
if I look back when I was very you know,
it will be really confusing. Yep, you know, And I
could have gone a different way. But you know, I
mentioned this, like even before I was walking with God
and the world was screaming out there already you can come.
Speaker 2: That's why you can be that way. This is who
you are.
Speaker 4: Something inside of me internally, whether that was God, you know,
something didn't set right in me or with me all along.
I never I never pursued like the lifestyle or going
into a cup cult or like I'm like, something just
blocked me from that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I can see you know that's that
can be extremely confusing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it is also very confusing for
people to accept gay as an identity.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Right, And I try to use the phrase same sex
attractor because it conveys a feeling. Yeah, So is that
do you find it more difficult for people who have
begun to pronounce themselves as gay versus people who feel
same sex attracted to pronounce that? Is it harder for
people who've arrived at calling themselves gay.
Speaker 4: In it?
Speaker 2: I am, yes and no.
Speaker 4: For some it might be it because people are so
making the identity in something. You know, for me, my
identity is in Christ.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: One of the guys that came alongside me was like, well,
I really struggle. I get angry really quickly, but my
identity is not anger. You know, my identity is stay Christ.
But I think once you put you out that's who
I am, you know, it becomes harder you know, it's
like I am this well, actually, I'm just a son
of God, you know, And I might have struggled with
this or struggled with this, and there's still some things
I struggle with, but I'm still a son of God.
Speaker 2: My identity. Identity is huge, you know, it's probably one
of the best. Like, why did you put your identity
right right?
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Man, what a war Leon has
been through and how God has brought him through it.
Praise God. He's here to help. My friend Tim Krukshank
did three deployments on our behalf as a Navy seal
who's a medic attached to the seal teams, and he
is specifically honoring the men who were killed in Extortion seventeen.
These are the names. In the side of this bag.
You can see this incredible image of the helicopter. There
on the back is a description of what happened. Now,
it's a careful description because Tim knows what happened, but
there's things he can say in can't because Tim has
to keep his agreement with the Department of Defense. You'll
also notice the bag says God Country Team on it,
because every bone bag says God Country Team. So try
this as your introduction to bone Frog. Go to Bonefrog
Coffee dot com slash todd and use checkout code Todd
at checkout. Obviously to save ten percent in the first
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why go to bone Frog Coffee dot com slash todd
use promo code todd to get fifteen percent off subscription coffee.
And that discount is good for life. Bonefrog Coffee dot
Com slash Todd use promo code Todd at checkout. And obviously,
this is why I use this phrase same sex attracted
because I want people to not not lock themselves into.
Speaker 2: A box yep exactly. And and.
Speaker 1: And you've seen other men come out of this, and
you've been involved in this. What are some of the
common factors of people who succeed in allowing God to
change in this way?
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of it is hard work, you know,
I tell you know.
Speaker 4: When I lead my ments Online Discipling Discapleship group, you know,
I encourage the guys before we do the group. It's
like get plugged into a local church, get you know,
get some people that can come alongside you don't look
for perfect jurts because I can tell you you're going
to keep looking.
Speaker 2: You know, it's all humans.
Speaker 4: But you know, I have a lot of grace, get
some people to come alongside you, and you need to
put the work in. Pornography is a huge problem today,
and you know, I would tell the guy. You know,
so many people we see struggle with pornography, and I
would like, you need to nip that in the bat.
You know, if it's something you don't want to do,
you need to be radical. That might mean get rid
of your smartphone or you know what you do if
you're computer.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: So I've seen, like right, you know, with people that
really make radical choices in their life that I want
to lever God, honoring life and you know, and having
community alongside them, brothers and sisters that they can share
life with and be vulnerable with. And you know, when
stuff came up or I'm feeling this way or I'm
tempted this way. I mean for me, when I started
doing that, that is through it off of the battle.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: And God is an awesome god in that way. I mean,
it always is an awesome guy. Yeah, how do you
how do you advise that the that the true biblically
strict churches of whatever, you know, Evangelic, whatever, how do
you advise them to deal with the existence of what
is called gay Christianity, or what I would call the
false churches. I mean, let's just be honest. They're teaching
a false doctrine because it does create confusion. I have
friends who have left the Catholic Church, and they've left
it behind, and now they're at same sex affirming churches.
And I watched them walk down this path where all
of a sudden, it's not just that that Jesus sponsors
same sex attraction, is that he never spoke about marriage,
and people are born in the wrong body, and it's
just this very predictable path. Now it's you know, I'm
onto this new leftist thing, et cetera, and and we
must teach this sex ad and everybody's racist, and it's
just this very predictable walk. So what would you advise
that the church proper or churches do biblically strict churches
about these these false doctrine churches.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, a big thing of what we do is,
you know that's really on our leader's heart is equipping
the church you know, now to be a loving place
for people to come in. You know, the church should
be a safe place for people to come. But I
would say something practical. You know, if you are leading
a church, your churchs, I think it's important that the
church speak about sex and sexuality and what is your
stance on this. You know, have your whatever your sexuality
statement is, have it on your website, you know, so
there's no confusion.
Speaker 2: This is what we believe.
Speaker 4: And then when when people come, you know and speak
about this, you know, don't never speak about sexual sexuality
or homosexuality in your churchs. And then you have a
couple that come in and they want to go into
a leadership position and they're like, well, we saw you
in a same sex relationship.
Speaker 2: You can't do that.
Speaker 4: And then like, well, you've never spoken about this. So
I think be loving, be speak love with truth, and
be open and speak you know. You know, I grew
up in a gent way. I don't think we ever
spoke either anything on sex or sexuality or you know,
or something like that. So I think if you speak
the truth, you know, in a loving way, you know,
they it takes out a lot of confusion. Yeah, and
then I have some postoral people. You know, if you
have people that struggle, it's like I have some people
that's ready to come alongside them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I'm picturing my mind people who are
listening to talk about the church and the church proper
and then they're saying, what about me? So there are
gonna be people listening to this and they have same
sex attracted kids or grandkids or brothers and sisters, and
they will look you in the eye and say, oh,
I see, So he's the he's the prayer the gay
away guy. Yeah, okay, so that's what we just We
just pray the gay away a that that uniquely understates
the power of God. But you didn't pray the so
called gay away you you went through this process.
Speaker 2: So what would you say, Yeah to people.
Speaker 1: Who are of that mindset that hey, I don't believe
we can pray the gay way and I've seen all
the movies and that can't change and talk there these
torture and.
Speaker 4: Well ton, I can tell you this. I tried to
pray it away myself and it didn't work like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know I've said that, I you know, without
anybody ever praying that for me.
Speaker 2: I've prayed that for myself. God was far more interested
in me as a person and being in my heart
and in my life.
Speaker 4: And you know, the best way the more I leaned
into God and making you know, that's the number one
relationship in my life. And the more I leaned into
that and into the truth and wrestling with that as
a lot and speaking about it. You know, as that
went up, there's feelings I was feeling. I was like, well,
that doesn't have such hold on me anymore. Yeah, And
you know, it used to drive me when I would
hear people say that as well, well you just need
to spend more time with God, And I was like,
well that's but actually.
Speaker 2: I just needed to spend time with God. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, and and through through our you know,
ratling with scriptures where you're like, well, you know the
Bible says that, but I'm not feeling that, or you know,
having conversation. You know, it's so so important having people
in your life that you can trust and be real
with and and speak with.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know it, God did that work in me.
Speaker 4: You know, it was like it's a ten year journey
that I've been on and it's still continuing praise God.
But never ever once, you know, did somebody come up
to me and say, we just we just need to
pray for you that God take it away. And in
my you know, even though I prayed that before I
was saved and in the beginning of my walk with God,
nobody else came up to me and said, we just
need to pray that away or you have a demon.
You know, Nobody's ever told me that. And I've heard
of people that that's happened to, which is really sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and Changed Movements, so Change Movement dot Com
and yeah, so talk about what the organization does and
then how this podcast and radio show family membership how
they can help.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So we I mean, we have a bunch of people,
you know, Ken Williams and Elizabeth Wanning started it back
in twenty eighteen, I think, and it's just people from
all different backgrounds.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: We're based in northern California and we've got a team
of maybe sixteen, you know, including some volunteers up here.
But then we've got people that from all over the
world really that's reached out to us, you know with
their testimonies where I've got a similar testimony and or
you know, God stand this in my life. We have
people that transitioned and the transition. No, it's like a
whole variety of people, you know, and it's just we
just you know, part of it is sharing the message
that I actually God can do this. You know, we
serve a powerful God. And not one of the stories
is the same. It's all different exactly. So you know,
we just basically collected testimonies, you know, and we've got
it on our website and we've got a printed book
and then a big thing what we do is equipping churches.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: We've got some people on our team that would go
out to different churches and we might do like a
Saturday workshop, you know, and Jesson, how you navigate this?
Speaker 2: How you walk with somebody? You know, what does the
Bible say?
Speaker 4: We've got an online series on our website called and
Navigating LGBT where there's like a bunch of teachings and
testimonies in So it's how our art is really is
like how can we equip the church to respond to
this issue in a trueful, loving way and be equipped?
You know, we go to some churches and it's like, oh,
we've got somebody that came to our church. We don't
know what to do with this struggle. But yeah, I
mean just just having churches being equipped like actually we have,
we can respond to this.
Speaker 2: We can love the people, we can walk with them.
That's a big thing of what we do. Praise God.
Speaker 1: And how can people help? How can they help Change
Movement dot Com?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean we we we.
Speaker 4: I'll find you know, we reliant on donut you know,
all out everything we do is you know, so if
people want to help, you know, they can go on line,
they can donate on our website and we've yeah, we've
got a whole bunch of resources on there. But yeah,
we you know, if people or you know, if people
think they have a need for somebody like Change Movement
to come and equip the church, you know, they get
each out to us on our website and praise God.
Speaker 2: Well, i'd something up.
Speaker 1: I'm asking people to give money. So I think the
average donation these days and nonprofits in America runs around
eighty five or ninety bucks. If you can afford that.
I have no relationship with these guys. We just did
this first interview, give eighty nine or you know, ninety bucks.
It's average. If you've been uniquely blessed and this resonates
with you. If you've been rescued from same sex X
attraction or activity, you've been rescued from, you know, from pornography,
you've been rescued from any of this. You know people
who have help this organization with whatever you can afford.
And it's Changemovement dot com. Don't need any code word.
I have no relationship with these guys, no financial relationship whatsoever.
But I'm calling on people to support this ministry and Leanne.
I would love to have you back. I'd love to
talk to other people who.
Speaker 2: Been this way.
Speaker 1: I'd love to have you comment on policy, et cetera.
And I just want to say I am absolutely uniquely
blessed to have heard this from you, and I thank
you very very much, my friend.
Speaker 2: You very welcome.
Speaker 1: All Right, God bless you. This is the Todd Hermit Show.
Please go be well, be strong, be kind, Please make
every effort to walk in the light of Christ and
celebrate for me as I get to go home and
see my beloved wife,