WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.440 Five oh one C three status means that nonprofit organizations 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:08.240 cannot get involved in certain ways in politics. Does a 3 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.759 new policy exempt church clergy members from that very rule? 4 00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:14.599 EJ's here to discuss. 5 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:14.839 So. 6 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:17.760 Senator James Langford, who is known for pro is real, 7 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:21.800 anti abortion, and borderline racist stances, wants the Johnson Amendment, 8 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:25.160 an amendment made to keep charities and churches of politics 9 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:28.079 scrap as he believes it infringes upon the free speech 10 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:30.760 of passers. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, it's a 11 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.679 bid to chisel away at the non existent barrier between 12 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:36.240 church and state. The story is from The Friendly Atheist 13 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:39.479 by hement Meta on the April fourteenth, twenty twenty five. 14 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:43.159 Yeah, and you know, when it comes to the effort 15 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:47.320 to do away with the Johnson Amendment, it's actually not 16 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:49.560 overturning an amendment per se, but. 17 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:52.200 It's just an attempt to introduce. 18 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:56.359 A new bill to revise what the IRS says five 19 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.840 oh one C three organizations are allowed to do. I 20 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.079 understand stood that correctly. The thing that I have a 21 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.480 problem with here is that Lankford actually admits that this 22 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:10.319 effort is not even really neededj What what is he 23 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:14.000 talking about why why go through the trouble to make 24 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:19.200 revisions to an IRS role that restricts political involvement from 25 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:22.760 five to one or political support from five o' one 26 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:24.879 c three nonprofit organizations? 27 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:27.000 Why do that? If it's if it's useless. What's he 28 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:27.560 talking about? 29 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.400 Well, I feel part of it is because churches get 30 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.280 away with so much, whether it's covering up assaults that 31 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:37.159 we were talking about, uh with the Catholic Church, controlling 32 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:40.480 towns as you tend to find in places like a 33 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:45.319 Mormon communities, or even in some cases violating key legal 34 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.159 documents that the constitution. Chances are if it's illegal, the 35 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:50.079 church has done it and got away with it, which 36 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:53.439 is a what IM president, hopefully not holding out much 37 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.239 hope we don't see continued in the future. That is 38 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.799 an upside though, if they get rid of the Johnson Amendment, 39 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.599 or at least they appeal some of it and allow 40 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.400 five to one C three charities to be more vocal, 41 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:06.959 it means that some charities can gloves off and speak 42 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.759 their mind, which may not work out so well for 43 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.039 folks like Central Langford because not all five one C 44 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.599 three charities are churches. Some of them are charities focused 45 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:19.879 on helping people get better lives, and not all of 46 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:22.840 them would agree with a lot of the things that 47 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:24.360 he is very vocalist. 48 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:27.120 Well, we have the nonprofits are part of a five 49 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:30.120 oh one c three nonprofit organization in the atheist community 50 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.240 of Boston, and I don't agree with probably many of 51 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.919 the things that Langford supports. And so if he sets 52 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.439 a precedent for us to speak our minds a little 53 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:43.280 bit more fluidly, I would welcome that. But you know, Rob, 54 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.280 getting back to the idea of this bill not even 55 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.520 really being necessary, is there any substance to it, and 56 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:50.840 does it make a difference at all? 57 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:55.080 It depends on what you mean by what level of 58 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:59.520 substantive it is. Because actually within the bill now, like 59 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.680 he has already admitted that the point is to remove 60 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:06.240 barriers from pastors being able to say things that they 61 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:10.039 would otherwise not be able to say, because they're saying 62 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.560 that like the irs is targeting them and that's simply 63 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:17.919 not true, and he knows it. Pastor Josh Blevin's, for example, 64 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:23.400 of the Grace Calvary Chapel in Missouri is like on 65 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.159 video literally just saying vote for this person. They're not 66 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:28.919 going to do anything to us. So it's like they 67 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.039 already don't respect the rules, so substantially, no, there's nothing 68 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.759 in there because like they're already not being targeted. However, 69 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:39.439 I came into this discussion being like, they need to 70 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:41.879 stop it because they need to follow the rules. And frankly, 71 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:44.080 you've like immediately compelled me. 72 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:46.039 It should pass. 73 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:49.360 And then since they're already not following the rule, it 74 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:52.199 actually just opens everyone else up to do the thing 75 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:56.680 they're already doing. So hell, yeah, brother, I'm in yeah. 76 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.360 And on that note, you know, with the with the 77 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:01.919 pastor or excuse me, we'll not with the pastor, with 78 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.360 the with Senator Langford already kind of admitting that clergy 79 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:08.360 members do get away with this sort of thing, and 80 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:12.120 maybe the bill is not necessary. I have this idea 81 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:15.960 that maybe he's blowing a dog whistle to everybody to say, hey, 82 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:19.720 start campaigning. Start You're not gonna get in trouble, like 83 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:22.800 you're fine, right, And so with that, I want to 84 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.319 turn to Tracy and ask, you know, are the pastors 85 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:32.160 or clergy members in this country afforded different free speech rights. 86 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:33.519 Than average Americans? 87 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:36.439 Of course, in the same way that service members are 88 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:39.800 afforded different free speech rights. When you sign up to 89 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.959 a certain agreement with the government, they afford you certain 90 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:48.079 things and take away certain things as payment. When you 91 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.800 sign up as a five ZHO one C three organization, 92 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.439 you gain some benefits and in return you give up 93 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.600 some things. It's that way with everything. It's just because 94 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.879 it's with the government. You the only thing they really 95 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:07.160 give out is certain rights to certain things. And the 96 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.680 only thing they can really take or you know, tax benefits. 97 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.240 I suppose the only thing the only thing they can 98 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:16.160 really take from you is either money, which they're giving 99 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:18.839 you tax benefits. So why would they take money? So 100 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.720 they take away you can't talk about these certain things. 101 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:24.000 And I think that's kind. 102 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:25.240 Of the way it should be. 103 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.519 Keep if you agree to a certain set of rules, 104 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:32.240 you should follow that set of rules. I don't know 105 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:37.879 why that that's a that's such a big problem. Go ahead, Rob, yeah, 106 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:39.079 real quick. 107 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.279 What I wanted to follow up with is with the 108 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:44.439 admission that they are not held to the same standards. 109 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:47.600 Are they actually afforded different free speech rights in a 110 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.720 different way in that they're not restricted, but they're actually 111 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:53.639 given more So go ahead, Rob, please. 112 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:56.240 Well, like that's why I was saying that EJ has 113 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:59.759 just compelled me so much because EJ literally said. 114 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:01.600 Five O one C. 115 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:06.160 Three the he was quoting the Senator in fringes and 116 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.120 the free speech of pastors as if as if that's 117 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.800 a bad thing, Like that's the thing is that it's 118 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.680 like they're infringing on the free speech of pastors. 119 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:16.680 Yes, it's doing. 120 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:20.680 Literally the thing it is meant to do. You're right, 121 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:22.720 Like it's one of the rare cases where we can 122 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:25.720 tell them, you are correct. It is infringing. That's what 123 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:27.639 it's supposed to do. So it's just kind of funny 124 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:30.519 to me that they're pointing to the thing working properly 125 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.000 and being like, do you see what they're doing to us? 126 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.480 It's it's it's a bit like if they signed up 127 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:38.839 to serve and then they had then they complained that 128 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:40.920 they had to wear a scratch a uniform all day. 129 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:43.000 Yeah that was in the contract. 130 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.279 Yeah, well I I am still currently serving, and uh 131 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.040 I never had it in my contract that my uniform 132 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:51.879 would be uncomfortable, to be honest with you. 133 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.560 But you know, they do. They make, they make, they make, 134 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.439 you know, great gains and I love my job. 135 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:00.680 But there are certain things you are not permitted to 136 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:02.519 say as exactly right. 137 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.399 That's exactly right, and I wouldn't violate that. And and 138 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:10.360 you know, I take my agreement seriously. I don't understand. 139 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.079 And that's why you know, I asked, do clergy members 140 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:17.199 have the same free speech rights because they. 141 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:18.040 Seem to get away with it? 142 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.519 And admittedly so, And if the Senator that is writing 143 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.600 this bill to remove that is actually saying, well, we 144 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.040 don't really need to do it, you know, don't they 145 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.560 already have a benefit over other people, like, for example, us, 146 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.199 Because if I got on here in a segment, or 147 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.319 any one of you did, and started either really bashing 148 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.600 and obliterating a political opponent or part or excuse me, 149 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.839 a political an elected official or political party. 150 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.879 You know, without supporting it with some kind of data, 151 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:50.160 we could be in violation. 152 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.439 And something tells me that we wouldn't have the same 153 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:56.800 the same protections as clergy members do. 154 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:59.959 And so on. That go ahead, Tracy, I would like 155 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:00.759 to reflect on. 156 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.879 That well, viewers. I'm gonna speak directly to them for 157 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:08.639 a second. Viewers before this segment and a few times 158 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.439 in our recording session we're having tonight, we have talked 159 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.199 very explicitly about what we are permitted to and what 160 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.720 we are not permitted to say. We're talking about it 161 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.920 in the ACA right now, going to get some new 162 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:22.319 discussions about it. We take this very seriously, and it's 163 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:27.480 very disheartening to find that we care very much about 164 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:31.879 like respecting the rules and following the agreement that we've made. 165 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.279 When we find out that like these guys don't even 166 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:38.919 care and they're trying to change the rules to get 167 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:41.919 away with something they can already get away with. 168 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:45.600 It's worse than that they openly mocket. You watch the 169 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:46.960 video with the pastor. 170 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:48.720 Joss disheartening, EJ. 171 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:52.559 Over here. It has a lot to say, but he 172 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.279 has to like figure out how to say it so 173 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.960 that he can stay within the constraints of what we're 174 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.639 allowed to say. And I watch very smart man have 175 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.120 this hard time trying to figure out what he's got 176 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.360 to say, and they just mock us. They just mack 177 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:09.039 those who want to follow the rules. 178 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:12.399 You know what I want to ask you, EJ. 179 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.799 Why is it that Christian institution institutions are not held 180 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:17.360 to the same standards as everyone else. 181 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.799 I think part of it, at least in America goes 182 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.440 back to the old anti comedy and anti Reagan days, 183 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.000 because well, at least back then everything was seen. If 184 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:32.720 it was anti USSR, it was good. And the USSR 185 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.799 were atheists. So we need to be very strong Christians. 186 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:39.360 So you know what if occasionally a pastor breaks a 187 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.799 little rule, well, you know what, it helps us in 188 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.039 the long run, and that like a lot of things 189 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.919 from that era that maybe slightly outdated, have just stuck 190 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:53.120 around so that it's become normal these days to well, 191 00:09:53.919 --> 00:10:00.159 these this pastor may have endorsed X political party or 192 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:06.159 political person. However, ah, the older it's nothing really, despite 193 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.200 the fact that they agreed to rules that the rest 194 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.919 of us have to follow. And if they seriously, if 195 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.200 they don't want to get behind the restrictions that come 196 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:19.320 with the five oh one CE charity title, they should 197 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:22.039 not get the benefits of the weather sure, sure. 198 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:24.559 And I think that I agree with you there. 199 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.080 If they are going to violate those rules, then their 200 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.600 tax benefits should be taken away. Do you imagine with 201 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:35.159 all of the discussion in government and politics right now 202 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:40.879 in this country about wasting money, about not collecting adequate taxes, 203 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:46.080 how much property taxes if paid to the United States, 204 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:48.519 whether it's the federal government or the state and local government. 205 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:50.559 How much money I don't even know. If I could 206 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:52.600 put a figure on it, it'd be in the trillions. 207 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:55.080 It would have to be every year if they paid 208 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:59.000 their fair share of property taxes and so yeah, the 209 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:03.440 fact that they can openly teut violations of this law, 210 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:05.440 it's really disconcerting to me. 211 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.039 And I really don't have much to say on that. 212 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.919 I think that when it comes to well, you know. 213 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.080 What, I want to turn this over to you, guys, Rob, 214 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:16.799 why do you think why do you think that. 215 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:17.519 This is allowed? 216 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.919 It's well, that's the thing. It's not allowed by rules, 217 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.200 but it is allowed because they just keep doing it 218 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.360 and they can openly like I'm just gonna keep harping 219 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:31.039 on specifically the one video of just where he specifically 220 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:32.799 says they're not going to get us, like they just 221 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:35.360 they just know. One thing about this discussion that I 222 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:38.600 thought was really interesting is that normally when this sort 223 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:42.279 of thing occurs, the talk tends to go in the 224 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:46.600 direction of this is political theater. They're doing it for 225 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.360 their constituents, but it doesn't actually mean anything like that's 226 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:53.879 just and both sides do it genuinely, because it's all 227 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:57.120 just rage bait. But what I find very interesting about 228 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.960 this specific one is that this talk hasn't been much 229 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:04.039 about the political theater ness of it, because he's already 230 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.559 admitted that it is. He already admitted that it didn't 231 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:10.360 mean anything, but like, we're genuinely considering the effects of 232 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:12.679 what if it was repealed. So it's almost like this guy, 233 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:17.159 in an attempt to have political theater, hit on something 234 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:20.600 that would actually be a substantial change. 235 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:27.879 Yeah, he threw a punch, no realizing it would let 236 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:32.120 everyone else punch back. It's it's not something that is 237 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.720 incredibly common, but when it does happen, it does. At 238 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.320 least it gave me that little moment of a oh, 239 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:41.559 this has a little unintended side effect that might actually 240 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:44.080 help everyone else in the lone run. Maybe we shouldn't 241 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:44.879 been this time. 242 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.759 Yeah, And I think as as people who speak out 243 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:52.759 against the abuses of religion and the importance of keeping 244 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:57.279 religious institutions and governments separate, we can realize, or we 245 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:02.440 can speak to the fact that things do backfire and 246 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:06.320 things precedents are dangerous. Right, this is a little bit 247 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.759 of a different case, but we know that if one 248 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.320 group gets away with abuse, probably the rest of us, 249 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.559 even if we're not being or gets away with If 250 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.080 one group is abused and the abuser is not held 251 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:22.440 to a standard or held accountable, that those other groups 252 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.879 are probably going to get abused someday because nothing was 253 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:25.519 done about it. 254 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.559 Right, This is a little bit different. 255 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:32.639 This could also backfire, and that's what makes it kind 256 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:33.519 of similar. 257 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.000 In the way that we go about doing our business. 258 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.600 You know, we have to kind of call out the hypocrisy, 259 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:42.039 and we have to make sure that people are held. 260 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:46.679 To standards so that standards that are not enforced don't lead. 261 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:49.480 To further abuses. And I think that these standards do 262 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.200 need to be enforced. But if this particular one they 263 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:56.200 don't want to do doesn't get enforced, like we've talked about, 264 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.080 I'm probably okay with that because that means that I 265 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.279 get to do more things that I'm not supposed to do, 266 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.759 which would be really beneficial and helpful to the cause 267 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:08.000 that I'm that I'm so invested in. 268 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:12.320 Go ahead, Rob, Well, the bigger issue, You're right, right, 269 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:15.759 like in an equal playing field, that's absolutely correct. It's 270 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:19.399 just that by virtue of being non religious we have 271 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.200 less populations, so mob rules in this case. 272 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.960 Yeah, and with that, I want to just in case, 273 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.320 just in case anybody's not following. 274 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.679 What we're talking about, by the way, you know. So 275 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.200 the exemption in. 276 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:37.480 This bill that would allow clergy members to openly support 277 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:41.519 political members' states that as long as their speech, their rhetoric, 278 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.720 their support is made in the ordinary course of the 279 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:50.440 organization's regular and customary activities in carrying out its exempt 280 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:55.279 purpose and be results in the organization incurring not more 281 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:58.440 than deminimous incremental expenses. 282 00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:59.240 And what that means. 283 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:03.600 According to dot gov, a deminimus benefit is one for which, 284 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.360 considering its value and frequency with which it is provided, 285 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:10.840 is so small as to make accounting for it are reasonable. 286 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.279 This basically says, hey, clergy members, go out support whoever 287 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.919 you want politically, even if you get more money because 288 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.879 of it, We're not really concerned about that because it's 289 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.159 going to be so small. Who gets to decide what's 290 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:26.879 so small? And you know with that, Yeah, this group, 291 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.919 these religious groups, while while most of us are not religious, 292 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.240 and they are to the mob rule point that Rob made, 293 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.559 they are incredibly organized. 294 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.639 And that is uh, that is a major. 295 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.559 Major concern, and so Tracy, I want to I want 296 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.399 to talk to you about that. You know, what, in 297 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.600 what way do the rest of us combat such an 298 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:53.080 organized structure that is powerful, that has a lot of money, 299 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:57.240 and that is intertwined with far right groups in our government? 300 00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:58.120 What can be done? 301 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:00.399 As near as I can tell, the only thing that 302 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.000 we can do is, UH, is to just be loud. 303 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:06.639 That that's that's the best thing I can I can 304 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.080 figure out is just be loud, don't sit down and 305 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:14.960 be quiet. Bad people get stronger when good people stay quiet, 306 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:17.720 and and and and that's that's the best I can 307 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:20.639 I can come up with. Be loud, don't don't sit 308 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:22.480 down and let things happen. 309 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:23.120 Uh. 310 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.320 And just as a side note, I did a little 311 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.519 bit of calculation while you guys were talking about property 312 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:34.080 tax for one specific building in my city, the Cathedral 313 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.559 Basilica of Saint Louis. 314 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:37.559 If if the. 315 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.519 Catholic Church were required to pay property tax on that 316 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:44.039 building alone, it would be over one million dollars yearly. 317 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.080 So go Ahead wants to capitalize on that. 318 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.159 And I just want to say, I want to inject 319 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:54.480 this before you transition. 320 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:56.240 How many pairs of shoes? 321 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.879 How many college educations, how many backpacks, how many sets 322 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.039 of school supplies, how much clothing? Like, how in what 323 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.839 way can that million dollars a year benefit society? But 324 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.839 instead it does not, and AJ please take it away. 325 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.400 So what you were saying is bang on what I 326 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.279 was going to say. I was also thinking about specifically 327 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:21.759 pastors like Kenneth Copeland who have a private jet, and 328 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:25.720 other megapastors like that, because they oftentimes don't have churches, 329 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:27.079 they have stadiums. 330 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:28.440 And if you. 331 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.359 Are like me and you're a bit of a nerd 332 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.400 and you get curious about figures, you should probably look 333 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:38.000 up how much property tax stadium is worth, because they 334 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.480 are worth more than you would think. They are incredibly 335 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:46.680 big billings that hold people in the thousands comfortably. And 336 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.279 I feel if instead of going down the route of 337 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:54.799 diminishing the John snack, they were instead to enforce it fully. 338 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:58.880 I feel a lot of megapastors would be selling their stadiums, 339 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.240 hopping on their private jet going to the nearest country 340 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:05.000 that doesn't have any contact with the US, because they 341 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.160 would be owing the US government a lot of money 342 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:09.960 that I don't think a lot of them have. 343 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.480 Yeah, you know, we've covered a lot in this segment. 344 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.559 There's so many things that I wanted to kind of 345 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.680 harp back on. I think the property taxes and the 346 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:24.119 economic impact of churches is something that everybody really needs 347 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.599 to consider. 348 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.759 I mean, think about it. If you're watching this show 349 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:27.599 right now. 350 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:31.000 It's very likely that you pay more in property taxes 351 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:35.319 than the Catholic Church does. A multi billion dollar, one 352 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.039 hundred billion dollar organization. I don't know how much they're 353 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.039 endowed with or you know, what they've got. I'm sure 354 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.079 it's in the billions, probably hundreds of billions. But in 355 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.519 any case, you know, this is an organization, like we've 356 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.920 talked about in previous segments, that has the money to 357 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:53.680 do what they want. These clergy members on TV, they 358 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:55.160 have the money to do what they want. They pay 359 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:58.759 no taxes, and I just don't understand how that sits 360 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.680 well with America. And then harping back on, you know, 361 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.880 where does this come from? EJ talked about, you know, 362 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.599 earlier in our country's history. You know, we just kind 363 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.680 of got comfortable with these policies. You know, I think 364 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.279 that it's a much older, much older doctrine in which 365 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.319 the church was just in charge of everything. 366 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.519 And we kind of just let it happen. 367 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.880 And it's five thousand years in the making, I mean, 368 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.160 or older than that, where religious people or people in 369 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:27.400 power said well, I get my power from God and 370 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.559 nobody could question it because they either you know, didn't 371 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.400 have the education to, didn't have the means to or 372 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:35.640 the power to, and they just kind of accepted it. 373 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:40.920 I think our memory as human beings generationally is not 374 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:43.960 one that's very long, and we tend to just kind 375 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:50.359 of adopt the perspectives of our ancestors, of our forefathers, 376 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.000 if you will, and if they kind of held the 377 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.759 church on a pedestal many many times, they raised their 378 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.519 children to do it, and it's it's fine. Here we 379 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:02.559 are in a a situation where now the church is 380 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.039 openly gloating and Republican or excuse me, I shouldn't say Republicans, 381 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.079 even though Senator Langford is a Republican, but lawmakers are 382 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.319 gloating as well that this isn't useful, or that a 383 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.640 measure like this isn't even really necessary. 384 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.319 We've recently just heard from Tracy and EJ. 385 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:22.480 Rob. I want to give you a chance to respond 386 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:25.559 before we close out. So what's on your mind. 387 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.240 I was convinced immediately by EJ. And I have changed 388 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:33.079 my mind again. They should enforce the rule because mob 389 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:39.240 rules you were talking about, it's hard to fathom the 390 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:44.240 immense amount of money that they have, so like wouldn't 391 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.920 be great if you know, there's a bunch of little 392 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.200 underdogs I can say everything that they want to say. 393 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.160 That just wouldn't be the case. So if the rule 394 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.480 we're actually enforced properly, then it would level the playing 395 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.079 field because then just people couldn't say things that they're 396 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:58.440 not supposed to say. But if repealed and then people 397 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:01.640 could say anything they want. The people with more money 398 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:04.279 will say more. With their private jets and abilities to 399 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.880 go places. Soney money wins. I should have more of it. 400 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.200 Yeah, on that note, we should have more of it. 401 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.079