1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,359 Speaker 1: And it seems like what's going on is a new 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,599 one world religion, and in fact they're openly wanting to 3 00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:09,800 build structures promoting this concept. 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,759 Speaker 2: In Hinduism, people explore the divine mystery and express it. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,359 They seek release from the trials of the present day 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,640 and the aesthetical practices profound meditation, and they have recourse 7 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:27,000 to God. Capital g Adica is literally saying that Capital 8 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:30,120 g the God of Hinduism, is the God that we 9 00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:30,960 all worship. 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:52,399 Speaker 1: The hell, before we even get into the evils that 11 00:00:52,759 --> 00:00:55,719 we want to address, you want to, you know, give 12 00:00:55,759 --> 00:00:58,439 insights to people of what we're not saying that we 13 00:00:58,479 --> 00:01:02,399 do recognize the unification of the original Church, that we 14 00:01:02,439 --> 00:01:06,680 do recognize quote unquote Catholic saints, certain ones aligned with Orthodoxy, 15 00:01:06,719 --> 00:01:10,640 And just before we even dive into any of the topics, what. 16 00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: You want to. 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: Share with people, like where we're going, where we're not going. 18 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great idea. I think that, you know, 19 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,760 a lot of the debates, a lot of the apologetics 20 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:26,640 in the last few years has got a little nasty 21 00:01:26,719 --> 00:01:28,760 because Roman Catholics are angry at a lot of the 22 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,680 stuff that we do. You know, we've seen so many 23 00:01:30,719 --> 00:01:34,560 people convert from Rome Catholicism to Orthodoxy. So so there's 24 00:01:34,599 --> 00:01:39,239 some sour grapes, some lemons there in terms of attitudes. 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,560 But you know, from my vantage point, I don't have 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,599 any personal hatred towards Roman Catholicism. I don't hate the 27 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:51,159 Roman Catholic Church or anything like that. I opposed the 28 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,000 system and particularly you know, the head of that system 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,879 and how he is steering that that entity. And so 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,640 really it does come from a position of concern and 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,760 love and care for Roman Catholics. We want them to 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,680 be united with us, but we can't have a false union. 33 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,080 And so the only path to real union and restoration 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,240 I think has to come through truth. Right, you can't 35 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,240 have unity without truth, and you can't have truth without unity. 36 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,360 They kind of go together, so they're not either ores. 37 00:02:21,039 --> 00:02:24,560 And you know that, as you said, we do share 38 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,560 commonality the first thousand years of the church, roughly speaking, 39 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:32,080 where certainly we would acknowledge many holy popes of Rome, 40 00:02:32,199 --> 00:02:35,400 many saints that are popes of Rome. You know, Saint Leo, 41 00:02:35,719 --> 00:02:40,080 the great defender of the you know, to natures in 42 00:02:40,159 --> 00:02:43,560 Christ with his tone at Chalcedon, and of course many 43 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:48,280 other saints of Rome, so there's nothing inherently wrong with 44 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,280 apostolic succession or the Apostolic See of Rome or anything 45 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,800 like that. But obviously, as everybody knows, I think in 46 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,719 this audience, the divergence comes after about a first you know, 47 00:02:58,759 --> 00:03:01,400 forst thousand years, and there's already seeds of the split 48 00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:04,560 between the East and the West prior to you know, 49 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,199 ten fifty four, but the beginning of the split is 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,560 really in the late eight hundreds nine hundreds, and then 51 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,439 it kind of comes to full fruition in my view, 52 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,960 in twelve seventy four the Council of Lions and then 53 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:21,000 successively later at the Council of Florence, because after the 54 00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:23,199 Council of Lions in twelve twenty four in the West 55 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,400 you have the full on acceptance of the Phillyoaquay in 56 00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:29,560 the sense of a double hypostatic procession, and then you 57 00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:32,800 get the response of the Orthodox, which are the Palomite Synods, 58 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,919 to explicitly reject that. And those have been received universally 59 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,639 throughout the whole world of Orthodoxy. They're part of the 60 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,159 Lenton Liturgy we affirmed, and the teaching and affirmation of 61 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:47,080 the Palomite Synods and Saint Gregory Palomas. So we know 62 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:50,080 that we can't accept the philly Oquid doctrine given the 63 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,800 fact that the Palomite Synods reject it, and they reject 64 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,639 it very clearly, say Grey Palmas has a whole work 65 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,639 that Father heres has recently translated into English English called 66 00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:03,759 the Apedictic Treatise on the Holy Spirit, which really quells 67 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,280 gets rid of any notions of there being a reconciliation 68 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,360 in the sense of, oh, it was just a dispute 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,159 over words, and we all mean the same thing. No, 70 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,439 we don't, I mean. And Saint Gregor Palm has been 71 00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:18,160 a very clear in the Apdictive Treatise on the Holy 72 00:04:18,199 --> 00:04:21,920 Spirit that the Latin Church is following Satan. There they're Satanic, 73 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:23,959 and he was saying that all the way back then. 74 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,839 And he also said similar things to Barleum in the 75 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,560 Triads and in the debate with the barleym might I 76 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,040 can dinos that if you follow this course, you will 77 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,240 lead your church and your group into atheism. And that's 78 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,560 precisely what we've seen the West do ideologically, is go 79 00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:45,040 down the course of the track of atheism. So long 80 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:49,480 story short, you know, there's nothing we're not saying everything 81 00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:51,720 that you believe is false or that you're evil because 82 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,279 you're Roman Catholic, that the system is wrong, and that's 83 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:57,639 what you know, I really like to get into and 84 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,040 focus on is the systematics and how the systems don't work. 85 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,639 And when you have bad systems, what happens is that 86 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:09,879 they produce bad results, and they can produce civilizationally catastrophic results. 87 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,839 And that's what's happened in the West. 88 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, and as Orthodox, I mean, we can point to 89 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:18,199 my favorite church father, Saint Maximus the Confessor and how 90 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:20,959 he had to appeal to Rome during the time that 91 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,720 he was living because of the controversies of what was 92 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:25,600 going on in the East, and it was actually the 93 00:05:25,639 --> 00:05:26,600 West that aided. 94 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: But again, this is pre schism. 95 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:31,759 Speaker 1: This is before the establishment of the papacy, and where 96 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:35,160 we really see the split of the One Holy Orthodox 97 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:41,839 Catholic Church into the papacy again, unleavened bred Eucharist, the 98 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,680 Holy Roman Empire, the alliance with Charlemagne, all this different 99 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,680 stuff where it seems like the things get way more 100 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:53,000 political than theological as history goes on. So thank you 101 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,399 for beginning there. Now, privately we kind of went back 102 00:05:56,439 --> 00:05:59,040 and forth and you shared with me a news clip 103 00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:05,000 about Pope Francis's new alliance with the Islamic world and 104 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,600 this in this new what Abrahamic religious center, and it 105 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,079 seems like with what's going on post Koufid is a 106 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,519 new one world religion, and in fact they're openly wanting 107 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:22,199 to build structures promoting this concept. I would love for 108 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,040 you because I feel like this is really a central 109 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,519 point when we look at the evils of the Vatican, 110 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,040 because we're going to go through a lot of them, 111 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,639 but the new one World religion hints at a lot 112 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:42,160 of the preference for unity over multiplicity, ecumenicism, globalism, alliance 113 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:44,240 with what it seems to be the sort of technological 114 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,839 one world government that the Pope Francis seems totally in 115 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,199 step with. And so can you dive into the Vatican 116 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:57,959 the Pope, how long has this process actually been moving 117 00:06:57,959 --> 00:07:00,639 in this this attempt for the Vatican and to really 118 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:02,680 be the sort of figurehead. It seems like it seems 119 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,439 like the Pope the new religious leader of the new 120 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,519 one world religion. 121 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: I think that's definitely where it could go. And I 122 00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:15,120 think that there seemed to be some pretty clear indications 123 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,519 that Etis would certainly like to be in that role 124 00:07:19,519 --> 00:07:23,079 we saw. I mean in terms of I think clear 125 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:28,639 indicators of this idea in the dogmatic decrees and definitions 126 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,720 of Vatican two, and they are dogmatic, despite however many 127 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,639 Roman Catholics want to say they don't have to accept 128 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:39,199 Batican two. It was affirm with full papal authority, it's 129 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:41,199 from the chair, and it deals with faith and morals. 130 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:44,079 That's really all that's needed to be under the status 131 00:07:44,079 --> 00:07:47,879 of dogmatic declaration for a Roman Catholic. And in fact, 132 00:07:47,959 --> 00:07:49,879 I have a whole video where I go through four 133 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:54,839 separate documents from the papacy actually affirming and making it 134 00:07:54,959 --> 00:07:57,600 very clear that Vatican two is dogmatic. You do have 135 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,439 to accept. There's not an optional council for Roman Catholic 136 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,959 and there's there's at least four places in other Roman 137 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,079 Catholic dogmatic papal statements that affirm that. So we get 138 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,079 if we get that out of the way, then we 139 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,040 can come to documents like Atata. I don't know if 140 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,560 you're familiar with this, but this is one of the 141 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,480 more famous Vatican two documents, and it's the October twenty eighth, 142 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,639 nineteen sixty five document. It's about five pages, six pages. 143 00:08:24,639 --> 00:08:27,439 It's not that long. Are you familiar with this? 144 00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: No? I'm not too familiar, can you? You know? 145 00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:32,159 Speaker 2: So everybody should be familiar with this, and everybody should 146 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,399 read it because it's not very long. And I think 147 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,039 what you'll notice is kind of the point that we're 148 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:40,720 getting at here, which is that this idea of generic theism, 149 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:44,759 that there's a generic, universal idea of just some God 150 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,639 that everybody agrees on, and that therefore we can find 151 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,559 paths to unity from that is really what undergirds the 152 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,360 very thing that we're looking at with this House of 153 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,440 the Faith of Abraham or whatever it is. And I 154 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,759 sent you a link there. There's another there's another proposed 155 00:09:02,879 --> 00:09:05,600 version of this over in Germany. Somebody is saying too 156 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,480 that there's a there's proposed versions of this over in 157 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,559 the United Arab Emirates. And the idea is that, well, 158 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,559 we're going to just get together under a common banner, 159 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,919 not of the accidents, but the essentials. Right, So this 160 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:24,600 applying the Resitilian distinction of essence and accidents to this 161 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:27,840 idea that well, don't we all believe in one God? 162 00:09:27,919 --> 00:09:29,440 And if we all believe in one God, that we're 163 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,080 all on the same page, at least as far as 164 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,440 that goes. And then we can just consider the other 165 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,879 stuff like Jesus and Trinity and resurrec virgin birth. Maybe 166 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:39,279 those are all just kind of like add ons, and 167 00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:44,039 they're not the essentials. And this lowest common denominator fallacy 168 00:09:44,159 --> 00:09:48,399 just keeps getting whittled down right to where ironically, at 169 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:51,720 Vatican two and Nostra Tat it says, I'm going to 170 00:09:51,759 --> 00:09:54,399 read it. It says, throughout the long history to the 171 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,600 present day, there's found amongst different peoples a certain awareness 172 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,799 of some hidden power which lies behind the course of 173 00:10:00,919 --> 00:10:03,799 nature and the events of human life. At times there 174 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,080 is present even a recognition of a supreme being, perhaps 175 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,639 a father. This awareness and recognition results in a way 176 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,879 of life that is imbued with a deep religious sense. 177 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:20,320 The religions that are found in more advanced civilizations endeavor 178 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:25,200 by a way by way of well defined concepts and 179 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:32,240 exact language to answer these questions. Thus Hinduism Hinduism. In Hinduism, 180 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,279 people explore the divine mystery and express it in limitless 181 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,320 niches ahime me riches of myth, and the accurately defined 182 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,039 insights of philosophy. They seek release from the trials of 183 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,200 the present day and the ascetical practices profound meditation, and 184 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,639 they have recourse to God capital G in confidence and love. 185 00:10:56,279 --> 00:11:00,879 So they're literally said, is literally saying that G, the 186 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,639 God of Hinduism, is the God that we all worship. 187 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,759 Because they're believing in a god, there's some supreme God, 188 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,559 a supreme being. And so the iron here is that 189 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,559 so this is equivalent to me equating as long as 190 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,120 I say it's a supreme being, which in linguistic philosophy 191 00:11:18,159 --> 00:11:21,279 we call that a non rigid designator. There's a paper 192 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,960 that Father Diacon and I covered by a doctor Garibee, 193 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,559 which is actually critiquing this notion of generic theism, or 194 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,480 the idea that just because all the monotheistic religions affirm 195 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,440 a God, that they're affirming the same God. Well, that's 196 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,320 actually a fallacy, and it's it's known as the quantification 197 00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:41,519 shift fallacy. And the reason it's a fallacy is because 198 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,559 it should be obvious that because we're all affirming one, 199 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,000 it doesn't equate to the fact that it's the identical 200 00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:51,679 one that we're all affirming. Right, I mean, I could 201 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,720 say there's one God. Another guy down the road could say, oh, 202 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:56,320 there is one God. I agree with you, but he 203 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,799 means Satan, right, I'm certain. Maybe maybe he attends that 204 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,159 the the temple of set Church or or the sat 205 00:12:04,279 --> 00:12:08,080 what's the new thing that's they've got the abortion ritual 206 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,360 that they're talking about. The Oh is it the church 207 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,799 Satanic Satanic Temple? Yeah, the Satanic Temple, that's it. Yeah. 208 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,840 Maybe he believes that it's Lucifer, that's the one God. 209 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,080 But does it follow from the fact that we all 210 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,720 believe in one God that it's the same God. No, No, 211 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,519 And that's what's known as the quantifier shift fallacy. Other 212 00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:30,120 examples of this and logic would be situations where we 213 00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:37,240 say something like every woman, uh, every girl loves a boy, 214 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,840 therefore every girl loves the same boy. Right, Right, everyone 215 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,320 is born of a woman, therefore everyone is born of 216 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:52,559 the same woman. Right. They're obvious fallacies. All of these 217 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,200 religions believe in one God, therefore they believe in the 218 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,440 same God. Now, when we come to, you know, something 219 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,159 like the New Testament, what's perhaps an example of a 220 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:05,279 religion that's very close to you know, some of the 221 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,639 things that we we would affirm. Maybe they even have 222 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,200 a lot of the books shared with us. Let's say Judaism. 223 00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:16,600 Judaism affirms that Father. Does Jesus say that just affirming 224 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,679 the Father is enough? No? No, he says that no 225 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,440 one comes to the Father but through me. Because the 226 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,840 word father. If God's eternally a father, according to Saint Anthonatius, 227 00:13:26,879 --> 00:13:30,159 he's eternally the father of an eternal son. So the 228 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:35,759 word father necessitates and implies the son. So I'm no 229 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:40,240 more joined with that religion than I am with an 230 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,519 Arian or Joba's witness right, I mean, Jee's witnesses said 231 00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:47,159 there's one God, So are we all on the same team? Well, 232 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,440 the same Basil didn't think so. I mean, he wrote 233 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,440 gigantic treatises and like spent his whole life combating the 234 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,240 idea that we're all of the same faith. Right, And 235 00:13:57,279 --> 00:13:59,879 in fact, if you look at the Niceno constant Apology Creed, 236 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,120 it designates the One God as the Father of our 237 00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:09,519 Lord Jesus Christ, and that implies, by necessary implication, the 238 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,200 Son and the Spirit. As the Cappadocians famously said, I 239 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,320 can no longer think of the One being the essence 240 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,960 of God or the person of the Father, as I 241 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,240 am quickly bound over to think of the three, and 242 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,360 I can no longer think of the three without quickly 243 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:26,519 being referred back to the one. So there's an equal 244 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,639 ultimacy of the one and the many in the trinity. 245 00:14:30,159 --> 00:14:32,480 So there's no such thing as kind of picking out 246 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:37,399 because of there being commonalities that there's therefore one lowest 247 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,360 common denominator religion. And if you read the Garibie paper, 248 00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:43,879 he points out that if there's a lowest common denominator 249 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,879 religion that is just the commonalities in these various so 250 00:14:47,919 --> 00:14:51,559 called monotheistic faiths or Abrahamic faiths, then that's actually a 251 00:14:51,639 --> 00:14:56,279 third other religion, right, that's not the other three you see, 252 00:14:56,919 --> 00:14:58,879 And that's all you can. You can prove that logically 253 00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:03,559 by a conjunct where you put, for example, in parentheses 254 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,399 and logic you could say, we're gonna list, let's say, 255 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,200 the beliefs of Orthodox Christianity that make Orthodoxy Orthodoxy, right, 256 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,720 so that would be A would be the Trinity, B, 257 00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:18,480 Virgin Birth, C, you know, incarnation, D, Resurrection. Right, Let's 258 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,399 say all of the beliefs that are necessary components of 259 00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:24,360 Orthodox Christianity. They're in these parentheses A, A, B, C, 260 00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:28,679 D Z. Right, if we take out Oh but wait 261 00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:31,399 a minute, one of those beliefs is that God's on mission, 262 00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:35,480 so maybe that's you know, G. Well, Jews and Muscles 263 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:38,960 believe that God's on thisce, so they believe G. Right. 264 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:43,440 But is G the same as the set that's up 265 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,799 here in the parentheses. No, no, it's not. And even 266 00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:51,159 if I take elements out commonalities, it's not this set 267 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:55,039 because this set is everything in totality. It's a total set. 268 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,240 It's in the parentheses. And this is just logic showing 269 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:02,799 that there's no such thing as a core religion that 270 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,879 is the core of these three monotheistic abrahemit face. It's 271 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:09,519 it's a simple it's a simple way in logic, in 272 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,799 linguistic philosophy to show that this set is not this 273 00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:16,480 set merely because there's common things. Another point, too, is 274 00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:18,399 that he makes in the Garby paper and makes some 275 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,840 really great examples or analogies to a card games. If 276 00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:26,919 I'm playing poker and then I'm playing, you know, crazy eights, 277 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,919 does the fact that Poker and Crazy Eights use cards 278 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:34,440 mean they're playing a same game the same game? No? 279 00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:38,480 Does the fact that there's cards and rules involved, mean 280 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,080 that there's actually a common core game that's neither poker 281 00:16:43,159 --> 00:16:47,399 nor Crazy Eights. No, of course not, it's this nonsense, right. 282 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:49,639 So in other words, the set of beliefs is going 283 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,240 to determine the reference in the set. And that's why 284 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:55,639 it's a holistic it's a whole systemic thing. And so 285 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:01,320 the word God is in linguistic philosophy, it's known as 286 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,000 a non rigid designator. And what we mean by that 287 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,920 is that it's not a a personal pronoun. It doesn't 288 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,240 pick out anything specific. Even in scripture, the word God 289 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,200 just little case God. It could refer to the person 290 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,839 of the Father. It could refer to the whole Trinity. 291 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,799 It could refer to divine actions or attributes with the 292 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:24,400 divine essence. It can refer to angels. Angels are called gods, Elohim, 293 00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:27,440 sons of God. It could refer to humans. I will 294 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,480 make you as a god to Pharaoh, right, God says 295 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,559 to Moses. And it could refer to us in deification. 296 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,880 It could refer to demons, right, the gods of the nations. 297 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,079 So the point here is that it's abatance witch the 298 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,680 fact that the other religions use the word God or 299 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,119 the word monotheism, or the word you know, whatever that's 300 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,680 in common. We believe in an omniscient God. You believe 301 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,000 in omnient God. So it's the same God. No, it's not, 302 00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:56,759 because the rest of the set of beliefs about our 303 00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:00,160 God is just as necessary as any single member of 304 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,799 the set right. The Father is just as necessary as 305 00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:07,279 Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is just as necessary as son, 306 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,640 as as omniscience. You can't start just subtracting from them. 307 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,279 And there's no argument to be made for some of 308 00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:17,000 God's attributes being more self evident than the others. They 309 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,400 all go together. It's holistic. You don't like, learn the 310 00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:23,400 essence of God and then down the road like Tomism says, 311 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,119 we'll tack on trinity, we'll tack on virgin birth. No, 312 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,920 it all goes together, right, it's a set right. 313 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: Just based on what you said, this idea, the sort 314 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,599 of manipulation or the word concept fallacy, it almost feels 315 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:41,039 like there's magical cannontations underneath this. Like I've spoken before 316 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:43,640 that magic is all about the manipulation of language and meaning, 317 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,480 which then alters people's perceptions of reality. And I can't 318 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,079 help but think when we start looking at Catholic history, 319 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,640 or you know, perennialism itself, this idea of the Abrahamic 320 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,319 religions really all sort of saying the exact same thing. 321 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,880 We can point back to the Iberian Peninsula in Spain 322 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,119 with the Moorish occupation, where they allowed for all these 323 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,440 mystical traditions to study each other and even smoke hashiesh 324 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:10,559 coming out of Northern Africa. And then right after that 325 00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:13,599 we start looking at the fifteenth century, the fourteen hundreds. 326 00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:16,440 We get the Italian Renaissance, we get the translation of 327 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,599 the Hermetic Corpus, we get Marcillo, Ficino, Giovanni, Picadella, Marindola, 328 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:27,000 and we see magic, Chaldean oracles, Sufism, Kabbala, and Christian 329 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:31,480 mysticism all come together in this sort of new understanding 330 00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:35,480 of what man is, of what religion is. And this 331 00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:38,400 is where the perennialism itself, if you're going to trace 332 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,440 that idea really gets going, is the thirteenth century Spain, 333 00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:46,200 and Catholicism has really been associated with this concept ever since. 334 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to bring up the Renaissance origins 335 00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:53,920 of Ahumanism. Actually because this is a more accurate thesis 336 00:19:54,039 --> 00:20:00,640 on the real origins of Ecumenisma way prior to Bodikan two. So, 337 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,319 for example, if you read a Cult Renaissance Church of Rome, 338 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,319 Hoffman shows in that book that the real origins of 339 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,359 the ideas of a common root of the religions, a 340 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,200 skeletal root religion that is neither Christianity nor Orthodo, nor 341 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,799 Islam nor you know, Judaism, is itself a religious presupposition 342 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,440 that comes out of philosophical schools. So it's kind of 343 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,359 a neoplatonic approach, and it's an approach as you said 344 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,079 that it gets adopted eventually by the perennial schools, which 345 00:20:31,079 --> 00:20:35,920 are really just borrowing from Neoplatonism to try to find 346 00:20:36,039 --> 00:20:40,799 the grand ultimate skeletal backbone of what the world religions are, 347 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,000 which are just kind of masks. So the perennialist idea, 348 00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:46,720 which again is not new, it was already had and 349 00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:50,759 seed form by Neoplatonists, and then it's regurgitated by the 350 00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:54,079 neo platonic schools that really influence the people in the 351 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,160 Italian Renaissance. It's just regurgitating things that had already been 352 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,559 rejected in the first seven count So actually, if you read, 353 00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:04,400 for example, Myandor's book Business Ideology, there's a whole chapter 354 00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:08,720 on the rejection of Neoplatonism. And this is why you get, 355 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:14,000 for example, the visiting Emperor Saint Justinian is the one 356 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,160 who started closing down the Platonic Academy and these schools, 357 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,519 because what happens is in the sonoticicon there's an explicit 358 00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:27,519 rejection of Platonism, Neoplatonism in this end, this idea which 359 00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:33,519 manifests in the chapter that he wrote called the It's 360 00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:37,200 about the humanists, the monastics and humanists, and so this 361 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,519 eventually manifests is a warfare between neoplatonism. And this even 362 00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:48,000 gets into iconography because the iconoclass are actually rejecting iconography 363 00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:51,759 on neoplatonic grounds. They all have neoplatonic arguments. This comes 364 00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:54,160 up in St. Theodore the STUDEI. It's repeated in the 365 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,920 Alspinsky Treatise with Theology the icon in the chapter on 366 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,680 Gregory Palomos, because palam is them is what undergirds the 367 00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:08,240 affirmation of iconography. The energy's doctrine is crucial and fundamental 368 00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:11,359 to why we do iconography. It's the apologetic argument that 369 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,000 they use. At the Seven Council. St. Theodore and Sat. 370 00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:17,039 John Damascus talk about the energies being the reason why 371 00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:22,920 iconography is useful, correct, important, pedagogical, and also mystical. I mean, 372 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,279 this is why the Saints have a golden halo. It's 373 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,839 because that's signifying the uncreated light. Icons themselves are teaching 374 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,839 the essence energy doctrine. And so when we get to 375 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,720 the Renaissance period, there's a rejection of that idea of 376 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:43,119 icons and iconography having a specific liturgical setting and meaning 377 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,920 and significance, and there's rubrics for how you do it. 378 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,640 You don't do Chinese Jesus because Jesus wasn't Chinese. But 379 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,680 we specifically see at the time of Charlemagne and after 380 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:57,359 that's when the Western Church departs right in many ways 381 00:22:57,599 --> 00:23:01,000 from the liturgical norms and from the Seventh Council. The 382 00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:05,000 Romancalloy Church never has really accepted the actual teaching of 383 00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:07,599 the Seventh Ecumenical Council. They afferm it in principle, but 384 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,799 for them, oh, that just means we can do Jesus 385 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,480 art right, and you can do anything, so you can 386 00:23:12,519 --> 00:23:15,039 have God the Father as an old man. No, actually, 387 00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:18,720 the Seventh machemenical council says you cannot paint God the 388 00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:21,039 Father as an old man, and it says that's a 389 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,720 heretical and idolatrous notion. No man has seen the Father 390 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:27,839 at any time, Jesus says, and never will because the 391 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,759 only icon of the Father is the person of the Son. 392 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:33,480 The hypostasis of the son is the only icon of 393 00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:38,079 the Father. And so there can be symbolic representations of 394 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,240 the Father in the sense of the three angels in 395 00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:45,119 the you know the famous a Braamic Rublev icon. There's 396 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,680 a symbols that represent the Trinity. But we make it 397 00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:51,240 very clear if you read the later icon councils in Moscow, 398 00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:55,680 they they explicitly know that those icons are not portraying 399 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,759 the person of the Father, right any more than the 400 00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:01,799 number three is like portraying the person of the Father. 401 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,559 It's represents a symbolic it's what's called the idos of 402 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:07,079 the icon, but it's not the hypostasis of the Father. 403 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,839 And that's made very clear for a reason. Anyway, long 404 00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:13,960 story short is just that iconography Orthodox theology is very clear, 405 00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:18,440 very precise on these topics, and it is always stressed 406 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,359 that as the nice in Crete says, the one God 407 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:26,480 is the Father, the Son, and the Spirit principally right, 408 00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:29,240 when we begin our trinitary theology, it's the person of 409 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:34,000 the Father. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, right, 410 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,039 And then yes, I also affirm God from God like 411 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,279 from Light, the Son, and the Spirit. Right. So one 412 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,880 God can pick out different things. It can mean the person, 413 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,519 the Father, it can mean the entire triad, It can 414 00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:48,200 mean the divine essence that they share. It can even 415 00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:50,720 pick out the attributes or energies that God has, because 416 00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:54,680 God is fully present in every energy. Sure, but the 417 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,400 point is just that if we understood even just iconography itself. Right, 418 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,640 And this is another point I'm gonna it's gonna come up, 419 00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:05,240 I'm sure in the debate in a few days with Trent, 420 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:09,240 because we'll be debating this very topic. Is that you know, 421 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,279 God for us has a specific reference and it means trinity. Right. 422 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,599 It's it's the persons of the Trinity. There's no such 423 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,880 thing as generic theism. Just even by linguistic philosophy, God 424 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,599 is a non rigid designator doesn't tell you. So you're 425 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,920 absolutely right that it's a kind of abate and switch. 426 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,079 I don't know how self conscious the authors of the 427 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,720 Vatican Two documents actually were, because some of this is 428 00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:36,240 really dumb and it's really low level argumentation, Like because 429 00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:40,079 they pray and because they you know, seek out things 430 00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:42,640 in their idolatriust religion, that therefore it's the same god 431 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,000 as us. I mean, that's just not just non sequitors, 432 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,400 that it's that it's our God. 433 00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:50,599 Speaker 1: And do you think this emphasis on the like you said, 434 00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:55,000 the neoplatonic presupposition of the sort of skeletal schematical framework 435 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:57,359 of all world religions and noise comes back to this 436 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,960 unknown or transcendent one again relates to the ancient Greek 437 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,279 problem of the one in the many, and this historical 438 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,559 prevalence to privilege unity over multiplicity. And you see this 439 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,440 in Tomism, you see this in absolute divine simplicity, in 440 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,359 which you've talked about, uh, you know, at nauseum on 441 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,839 yours on your channel. But Orthodoxy doesn't have this dialectical 442 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,279 tension between multiplicity and unity, and therefore you actually find 443 00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:30,000 a balance, You actually find a harmony at an intellectual 444 00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:34,960 and an intellectrical intellectual, you know, theological level. There's a 445 00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:39,160 balance there. Do you think that this has any ties 446 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,799 back to absolute divine simplicity. 447 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: What absolutely does, and that's not anything that I came 448 00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:50,319 up with. In fact, countless Orthodox saints and theologians have 449 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,319 been saying this for a long time. In fact, in 450 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,319 the little book that's kind of the good if you 451 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,480 want an introduction to this topic and what we're talking 452 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,160 about here. I don't I don't affirm everything that that 453 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,319 this author writes, but this book is really good, and 454 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,000 it's called Church Papacy Schism by Philip Chrard, And really 455 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,599 the whole thesis of this book is that the imbalance 456 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,160 and the one the many is kind of what undergirds 457 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,759 the Roman Catholic system. So papalism itself never could have 458 00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:19,960 really arisen if the pope didn't kind of arrogate himself 459 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,559 to the office and roll of what the Holy Spirit does. 460 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,519 So it's not accidental that the rise of the papal 461 00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:28,960 monarchy in the early Middle Ages is at the same 462 00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:32,039 time as a direct correlation, direct provable connection between that 463 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,039 and the imbalance that occurs in the philioquy doctrine. The 464 00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:38,880 philioquy doctrine creates a diad And again I would just 465 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,799 say read Saint Photius's mystigogy, because he says improves in 466 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,519 about eighty pages that if you give the power in 467 00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:49,480 particular property of the person the father to the son, 468 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,799 now you have a father son. Now you have a 469 00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:55,519 diad right, and that diad of father's son, which produces 470 00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:59,200 the third person, the father son. There that diad actually 471 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,160 has a power of producing a person that the spirit lacks. 472 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,960 So now, in this silly effort to try to prove 473 00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:09,519 the deity of the Christ against arianism, which is kind 474 00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,119 of the motivations of why the Philioque was rolled out 475 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,119 to begin with, which is all kind of a mistake 476 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,279 and a misunderstanding anyway, it really has the opposite effect 477 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:22,119 of subordinating the spirit. So if the Holy Spirit is 478 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,319 subordinated in the life of this institution, which is precisely 479 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,640 what all of our saints and theologians said that the 480 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,960 philioak we would do again, just read the mystagogy of 481 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,119 Saint Photius. He said it would do that. And then 482 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:38,079 what happens is that now we need a humanistic role 483 00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:41,960 for the Holy Spirit embodied in the person of the pope. 484 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,039 Now the Pope is the voice of the Holy Spirit. 485 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:47,839 The voice of God on Earth is no longer the immediate, innate, 486 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,680 direct presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of 487 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,920 the Church. It's now an extra juridical office that speaks 488 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,759 in this way. And so the pope really becomes the 489 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,240 bridge of the Philly okay now or the Holy Spirit 490 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:04,720 comes into the church, he kind of replaces Christ in 491 00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:09,319 the economia. And that's the argumentation that that Charard makes, 492 00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:12,319 which I've always thought was a really really powerful argument, 493 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,440 and it's and he makes the argument that it's on 494 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,799 the basis of absolute divine simplicity that this even happened. 495 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:21,200 I mean, Photius himself even says this that the simplicity 496 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:24,279 doctrine that the Cappadocians and the Church adopted is not 497 00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:27,000 the simplicity doctrine that the West adopted. And so they 498 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:29,880 even noticed that at the time. That's what undergirds the 499 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,200 whole debate of the Phillyoquay, at the time of Photius 500 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:36,039 and at the time of the Council Alliance, and when 501 00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:38,680 you read the Tomos of the Palomite Synods and the 502 00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:42,359 Palmite theology of that time, and the oppredicted treat use 503 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,960 of Saint Gregory against the Latins. It's all saying what 504 00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:48,000 I'm saying. It's none of this stuff is like me 505 00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:50,119 making it so, it's just in these documents, very clear, 506 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,680 very lucid logical presentation, by the way, which should show 507 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,400 people that there's nothing antithetical to palamism and apologetics and logic. 508 00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:02,720 I mean, he's using Ariscotan logic. That's what the apedictic 509 00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:04,359 treatise means, right,