Speaker 1: Special Operations.
Speaker 2: Cobert Sbiona The Team House with your hosts Jack Murphy
Speaker 2: and David Park.
Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, welcome to episode three hundred and fifty five
Speaker 3: of The Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave and
Speaker 3: our guest on tonight's show. I'm very excited to have
Speaker 3: here tonight, Thomas Rathsak. Thomas is the author of Yagger
Speaker 3: at War with the Elite, a book that I helped
Speaker 3: have translated and brought to the English language readers. So
Speaker 3: it's out there for you guys if you want to
Speaker 3: read his memoir, which is super I mean, obviously I'm biased,
Speaker 3: but I think it's a great story and I hope
Speaker 3: you guys will check it out. Thomas's background is that
Speaker 3: he served in the Danish Yagger Corps, which is Danish
Speaker 3: special forces, with deployments to Afghanistan in Iraq.
Speaker 1: He also served with the.
Speaker 3: Danish d Mining Group before four nine to eleven, even
Speaker 3: in Chechnya in Afghanistan, and then afterwards, I mean, he
Speaker 3: wrote his book. There was some controversy about it back
Speaker 3: home in Denmark, and he's moved on to writing some novels,
Speaker 3: some television projects and some other things we'll get into here.
Speaker 1: So Thomas. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me.
Speaker 3: So the first question we always ask is our guest's
Speaker 3: origin story. Can you tell us a little bit about
Speaker 3: like how you grew up in you know, what your
Speaker 3: initial interest was in the military as a young guy.
Speaker 4: Yes, well it started actually because I was very what
Speaker 4: you call it, insecure, young young child, and I was
Speaker 4: searching for answers. And I remember one day when I
Speaker 4: was walking by them with my mother in the street
Speaker 4: just close.
Speaker 1: To my my, my, my.
Speaker 4: House, and a new book was released and I just
Speaker 4: it caught my attention. On the cover of the book
Speaker 4: was a guy with a cigarette in his mouth. He
Speaker 4: was dirty, and I would just look at that face.
Speaker 4: That must be something special. And it turned out that
Speaker 4: it was a Danish guy from my special forces unit,
Speaker 4: the Yegga Court and he was just some few years
Speaker 4: before he attended the ranger course and his name was
Speaker 4: Carston Mark and he became number one at this ranger course.
Speaker 4: I think it was nineteen seventy eight, and my mother
Speaker 4: gave me that book, and that book sort of opened
Speaker 4: a window to a world that was for me extremely
Speaker 4: interesting and appealing.
Speaker 1: So it was not that it was you know, the military.
Speaker 4: It was just a story and narrative about, you know,
Speaker 4: a bunch of guys working together in the nature and
Speaker 4: using their physics, and that was extremely appealing to me.
Speaker 4: And I decided in a very young age that I
Speaker 4: wanted to be a part of that unit because then
Speaker 4: I have all the answers in my confused had all
Speaker 4: the questions in my confused head that that they would
Speaker 4: have an answer then.
Speaker 1: So that was that was the beginning.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, and so you grew up and you
Speaker 3: joined the military.
Speaker 1: What what year was this?
Speaker 4: I joined the military in nineteen eighty five. I was
Speaker 4: eighteen years old. I joined the National the National Guard,
Speaker 4: and I served there for five years in infantry.
Speaker 1: And then as thirty twenty three years old.
Speaker 4: I I I took the the.
Speaker 1: Selection course to the Yega Corps.
Speaker 3: You had a bit of like a winding path to
Speaker 3: like like was it selection or was it your training
Speaker 3: course got postponed because of was it the golf War?
Speaker 1: No, actually it was.
Speaker 4: I became Yega in nineteen ninety and as a as
Speaker 4: far as I recalled, it was was in ninety one
Speaker 4: and ninety two.
Speaker 1: Did the first golf war?
Speaker 3: Okay, I might be thinking of something else that I
Speaker 3: read in your book about how like a course you
Speaker 3: were going to attend got delayed.
Speaker 4: What what I wrote about was that during the First
Speaker 4: Golf War, and that's that's one of the reasons why
Speaker 4: I left the Eco COO in the first place. Anyway,
Speaker 4: we didn't even consider, you know, preparing our gear. It
Speaker 4: was the Americans and the British who went to the
Speaker 4: Gulf War. But nobody in my unit even talked.
Speaker 1: About getting prepared to the First Golf War.
Speaker 4: And I just remember it was extremely demotivating for me,
Speaker 4: because I mean I want I joined the armitude, you know,
Speaker 4: to to to to get some missions, not just you know,
Speaker 4: running around in my unit and my and the barracks
Speaker 4: and just train and train and train. So I was
Speaker 4: very disappointed in the in the beginning of the nineties,
Speaker 4: in the in the first period I was in the
Speaker 4: ECA Corp.
Speaker 3: Before we talk about you know, you had a break
Speaker 3: in service because of that. But before we get there,
Speaker 3: I mean, tell us a little bit about the selection
Speaker 3: and the training and for our American audience, what is
Speaker 3: the Jagger Core.
Speaker 4: The Yegger Coat was established in ninety sixty one as.
Speaker 1: Alert unit.
Speaker 4: And until mid nineties it was alert unit and then
Speaker 4: in the nineties it.
Speaker 1: Was transformed to a special forces unit.
Speaker 4: And my selection course it lasted sixteen weeks.
Speaker 1: It's divided in two parts. The first eight weeks you
Speaker 1: have to.
Speaker 4: Pass and be among I don't know the word in English,
Speaker 4: but you have to get the highest evaluation in order
Speaker 4: to continue to the last eight weeks.
Speaker 1: And it's we started, I think it was ninety eight.
Speaker 4: Started and we finished eight and I was among these eight.
Speaker 1: And it's classic disciplines.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of marching, it's a lot of orienteering,
Speaker 4: it's a lot a lot of swimming, especially in cold water,
Speaker 4: which I really really hate. It's it's a lot of exercises.
Speaker 4: You know you've done it. Nothing to eat, nothing to sleep,
Speaker 4: no restitution. So it's just sixteen sixteen weeks of pain
Speaker 4: and misery.
Speaker 1: And Denmark's climate is quite harsh, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Well, it's difficult for me to compare with the other unit,
Speaker 4: but I think it's it's quite I think it's quite
Speaker 4: quite strict. It's only these ten percent of the students
Speaker 4: who you know, fulfilled.
Speaker 1: They cause so.
Speaker 4: I was very prepared because I was. I was I
Speaker 4: was training throughout my teen years. I was extremely ambitious,
Speaker 4: so I was very very well prepared for the selection.
Speaker 4: So I normally say that I was a better student
Speaker 4: than I became a yegger because because I never really
Speaker 4: had had strong difficulties at the selection courst because I
Speaker 4: was so prepared. I mean as as before I joined
Speaker 4: the army. Sometimes I was walking, you know, eighty kilometers
Speaker 4: one hundred kilometers alone and swimming during the winter in
Speaker 4: the local harbor and all this.
Speaker 1: So I was very serious about my preparation.
Speaker 4: So selection cost, of course it was tough, but for me,
Speaker 4: I was so prepared, so I was never in the
Speaker 4: extreme red zone.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and after the selection course, what is the
Speaker 1: training for a yager?
Speaker 4: Like you have one year a sort of probation before
Speaker 4: you are you were putting into an rational team. So
Speaker 4: this year you you you you you are being taught
Speaker 4: the basic skills. It's medic it's it comes all all
Speaker 4: all these all these things, and then you're getting ready
Speaker 4: and you're you're getting your JEGA status status after one year,
Speaker 4: and first after that you are allowed into the into
Speaker 4: the teams. It's it's a very small unit compared at
Speaker 4: least to American standards.
Speaker 1: We have always been.
Speaker 4: Struggling for for selection because the Danish Army is so small,
Speaker 4: so it's very difficult to to to get enough people
Speaker 4: to to get enough people into the selection.
Speaker 1: So it's a very small unit.
Speaker 4: It's about it's about fifty max max fifty shooters, so
Speaker 4: it's a very small unit. And the organization organization in
Speaker 4: total is three other people. And then the called the
Speaker 4: teams is only about these fifty fifty shooters.
Speaker 3: And Denmark has Jager Core, the Frogmen Core and then
Speaker 3: serious patrol is also considered a special right.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the serious patrol in Greenland, as as you mentioned,
Speaker 4: is even smaller. It is I wouldn't say it's a
Speaker 4: joke because that's not very polite, but it's so small.
Speaker 4: I mean, they have false late slid patrols patrolling an
Speaker 4: area of the size of Spain. It's it's the world's
Speaker 4: biggest national park. The serious patrol is patrolling on the
Speaker 4: east side of Greenland. But now because there is this
Speaker 4: focus on Greenland, uh, quite a lot of resources are
Speaker 4: being being deployed to Greenland now.
Speaker 3: And I would recommend for our viewers. We interviewed your
Speaker 3: buddy Casper Domso on a previous episode of this show,
Speaker 3: if guys want to go back, Casper was a serious
Speaker 3: patrol member, super unique mission.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys will take a look at that.
Speaker 3: So, Thomas, you had a you know, you were a
Speaker 3: Special Forces soldier. You wanted to test yourself and felt
Speaker 3: like you weren't getting that combat experience that you were
Speaker 3: looking for at that time in the nineteen nineties, and
Speaker 3: so you had a break in service. What did you
Speaker 3: go and do outside of the military at that time.
Speaker 4: Well, I finished in ninety four and I really didn't
Speaker 4: want to. I didn't know what to do at all,
Speaker 4: because all my life it was all about being being
Speaker 4: a Jeger. So it was a very frustrating situation, not
Speaker 4: you know, not to have any goals. But what I
Speaker 4: did was I went to South America for two years,
Speaker 4: lived in Chile and worked as a photographer for various magazines.
Speaker 1: I did that for yeah, almost three years actually, and.
Speaker 4: Then I went back home to Denmark and I worked
Speaker 4: as a computer salesman for three years and that was okay,
Speaker 4: but it was very boring. And then I, by coincidence,
Speaker 4: I was offered an UD course, so old guys from
Speaker 4: from the Yeca Coo. They have made this cooperation with
Speaker 4: the army and some humanitarian Demaine organizations and they hired
Speaker 4: a recruited old former ex Jegles and gave them this
Speaker 4: ud course which lasted about four months. And I did
Speaker 4: that course. It was around nineteen ninety nine. And after
Speaker 4: that I had my first well you can call it mission,
Speaker 4: that was to Chestna, or rather it was the republic
Speaker 4: just west of Chestna, because during the nineties there was
Speaker 4: some civil wars in Chestna. The Russians tried to control
Speaker 4: the these these regions.
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of a lot of refuge
Speaker 1: refugees in the neighboring province region called Incocheche. So I
Speaker 1: traveled between and Ingushetia to educate the refugees in the
Speaker 1: refugee camps so when the war was over they could
Speaker 1: they could return to their villages and be aware of
Speaker 1: how it is to live in an area infected by mines,
Speaker 1: how how do you choose the pathway can go? Which
Speaker 1: which where is it Safere's it not safe? So I
Speaker 1: did that for.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for one year, and then I continued in Afghanistan
Speaker 4: as a program manager and cleared some huge Russian minefields
Speaker 4: just around Kabul, the capital in Afghanistan, and I did
Speaker 4: that for that.
Speaker 1: We are now in two thousand and one.
Speaker 4: Uh in two thousand and I did that for a
Speaker 4: little over over a year.
Speaker 3: What was it like interacting with the Taliban at that
Speaker 3: time as a Danish d minor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're just completely assholes.
Speaker 4: So what we have to do with them because we
Speaker 4: came with our old money, but we still had to
Speaker 4: get their permission to clear minds in their country for
Speaker 4: our money, after their warsh and still we.
Speaker 1: Were treated like like shit.
Speaker 4: I refused to to to wear a beard, which was
Speaker 4: you know, mandatory for all men at that time. When
Speaker 4: I refused, and I was almost kicked out of Afghanistan
Speaker 4: because I refused to have this this stupid bed, and we.
Speaker 1: Have to deal with them.
Speaker 4: We had to apply for permissions in order to to
Speaker 4: clear the minds. So I have almost on a daily
Speaker 4: basis meetings with tiny bands in the ministries in Kapul
Speaker 4: where I have to go there and ask for permission
Speaker 4: to clear minds. So it was it was surreal to
Speaker 4: to be in Afghanistan in its in this this stage,
Speaker 4: terrible place.
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Speaker 1: Were there any close calls?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 3: And I remember there's also a funny story about the
Speaker 3: the street lamp that fell down.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fine, I forgot that actually, yes, I with
Speaker 4: my Swedish buddy, we were called out to the outskirts
Speaker 4: of of Cabul and a huge amount of people together
Speaker 4: around this suspicious item on the ground and my, my, my,
Speaker 4: my Swedish buddy and I we we we made we
Speaker 4: made this hookah line, you know, put a very easy
Speaker 4: to put a put a hook in the edge of
Speaker 4: this item because we believed it was uh, you know,
Speaker 4: explosive device. And from a distance, we pulled this this
Speaker 4: device and then approached it and we discovered it was
Speaker 4: just it was just the lamp from from above from
Speaker 4: the land post, which was just you know, falling down
Speaker 4: and then covered in dirt and it looked like a
Speaker 4: mine or or an explosive device.
Speaker 3: So yeah, And then were you in Afghanistan when nine
Speaker 3: to eleven happened.
Speaker 4: Yes, I was my my boss from Denmark here he
Speaker 4: came and we were sitting on the in the garden
Speaker 4: and drinking gin and tony.
Speaker 1: We smuggled some some booths in.
Speaker 4: That was forbidden, of course, and there was a curfew
Speaker 4: after eight o'clock in the evening was it was was
Speaker 4: not alive, allowed to leave our premises. So we were
Speaker 4: sitting in the garden and that we didn't have any radio.
Speaker 4: We didn't have any TV because that was also forbidden.
Speaker 4: But the satellite phone rang in the basement and I went,
Speaker 4: I went downstairs and and and answered it was it
Speaker 4: was from the h Q in Copenhagen, and quite nervous
Speaker 4: voice said, have you heard about what happened in the
Speaker 4: in the States?
Speaker 1: And I didn't know.
Speaker 4: I don't have a clue because we don't have any
Speaker 4: access to TV or radio. And then he explained about
Speaker 4: the the nine to eleven attacks on on On on
Speaker 4: twins hour and and UH and the Pentagon as well,
Speaker 4: and soon we just realized that all the fingers were
Speaker 4: pointing at at at at Afghandistan and al Qaeda, and
Speaker 4: it didn't make any sense to stay in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: So three three.
Speaker 4: O'clock in the morning we we evacuated me my Swedish
Speaker 4: body and my Danish boss and at my dog by
Speaker 4: the way, I find found the dog some some months earlier,
Speaker 4: and we drove this trip to U through the Gayper
Speaker 4: Pass in Afghanistan toui Islamabad in Pakistan. It's twelve hours, right,
Speaker 4: and then we were stand standing by there for the
Speaker 4: for the for the coming weeks, and and you know,
Speaker 4: B A C N N. I got updated on what
Speaker 4: what was happening in in in the in Afghanistan and
Speaker 4: what the Americans were planning to do in all this
Speaker 4: article five nature and all this.
Speaker 1: That's a hair raising experience.
Speaker 3: I imagined being kabol when that happens, and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, all the news is about America wants to
Speaker 3: bomb this place.
Speaker 1: It was interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was why it Also it didn't make sense
Speaker 4: to stay there because he knew that the Americans quite
Speaker 4: promptly would react, which yeah, you also did. But then
Speaker 4: in in Afghania or in in Pakistan, I I my
Speaker 4: my old yega kre Uh spirit woke up and I
Speaker 4: called the Yega cor and told them about my my
Speaker 4: my stay in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: And at that time there was no Danish people.
Speaker 4: In Afghanistan, very few foreigners, so it makes past, yes,
Speaker 4: but very very few d minors. So I told them, well,
Speaker 4: I've been here for ten years, ten months, and I
Speaker 4: have some experience with the country.
Speaker 1: I know about the culture, the.
Speaker 4: Geography, and I have a database of all the minefields
Speaker 4: in Afghanistan. Can you use me to some purpose, I
Speaker 4: asked them and became quiet, and they said, of course
Speaker 4: we can. So I quit my job and took the
Speaker 4: first flight back home to Denmark, briefed the Yekako about
Speaker 4: all my experiences from Afghanistan, went to the American Embassy.
Speaker 1: And code making.
Speaker 4: By the way, they have heard about me as well,
Speaker 4: and I went there to give them all the information
Speaker 4: I had pictures and the database and all this. And
Speaker 4: then a few months later, a few weeks later actually,
Speaker 4: I went back with the Yekako to Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: Wow, so that's I mean, really quick that you went
Speaker 3: from being a civilian in too back in special forces
Speaker 3: and you were thirty four at this.
Speaker 4: Time, exactly, Yes, and I had to make some physical
Speaker 4: tests and had to be updated on all the new
Speaker 4: equipment because as I mentioned before, the Yega Core has
Speaker 4: been transformed from from a lab unit to to to
Speaker 4: to to spacial forces unit during the dances, So of
Speaker 4: course I had to to learn fast about the new
Speaker 4: procedures about you know, new webon systems, comes. Everything was new,
Speaker 4: so I really had to to to focus in the
Speaker 4: next weeks before I could get into a team in Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: And when you got to Afghanistan, I mean, where did
Speaker 3: your team get sent and what was sort of like
Speaker 3: the mission that you guys anticipated at that time.
Speaker 4: We were part of a Task Force KABA which was
Speaker 4: based in Kandaha, and we are some of the first
Speaker 4: setting up the camp with the Americans and and and
Speaker 4: and some other and then some other units from from
Speaker 4: Task Force KABA. It was I think it was some
Speaker 4: Navy seals. I think it was German cars, car Norwegian
Speaker 4: uh Special Forces, New Zealand, Australia, Canadians.
Speaker 1: Were in in.
Speaker 4: This Task Force CAPA and we were only one hundred
Speaker 4: Frogmen and and Jegas in in our task force which
Speaker 4: was a part of Task Force CAPA and was as
Speaker 4: I mentioned UH stationed in located in Kanadaha at the
Speaker 4: old Taliban al Qaida base. Actually, I don't know whether
Speaker 4: you have heard about Tonic Farms.
Speaker 1: Tonic Farms. Yeah, it was this.
Speaker 4: What you call it compound UH, and it was probably
Speaker 4: there where where they prepared some of the the attacks
Speaker 4: for for nine eleven as as far as I understand it.
Speaker 1: And it's pretty littered with minds itself, wasn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, they they had some daisy chains in in
Speaker 4: in in Tonic Farms, and it I think it was
Speaker 4: some Americans were killed because of these uh, these these
Speaker 4: mines and these boogie traps they have left the place with.
Speaker 3: So one of the things you know that your unit
Speaker 3: was very good at. You mentioned how they started off
Speaker 3: as a WORP unit and evolved into an s F unit.
Speaker 3: But what Yager really seems to bring to the table
Speaker 3: is like a really strong reconnaissance background. And I was
Speaker 3: wondering if you could tell us about one of these
Speaker 3: missions that you went on in Afghanistan where your team
Speaker 3: was flown in the one sixtieth aircraft and you guys
Speaker 3: occupied that op for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Right, we're supposed to be there for ten.
Speaker 4: Days, uh, and we were well, yeah, the infield was
Speaker 4: a nightmare, by the way, it was almost a completely
Speaker 4: what do they call it, steep cliff and was of
Speaker 4: course during the night and one of the monogoggles. And
Speaker 4: though it was my my my equipment at that time,
Speaker 4: I weighed eighty four kilos and my equipment weighed eighty
Speaker 4: two kilos, so I had to carry my own weight
Speaker 4: up these these damp cliffs, and our our LP was
Speaker 4: was on on the cliff actually, and the distance to
Speaker 4: the village we had to observe on was almost I
Speaker 4: think three kilometers and the mission was to verify whether
Speaker 4: the village was to some extent cooperating with Alakaia and Taliban.
Speaker 4: Of course, as you know, they were hiding in in
Speaker 4: in Pakistan and doing the prepping and then during the
Speaker 4: night they were sneaking over the border into Afghanistan and
Speaker 4: conducting the missions against the coalition. So we had to
Speaker 4: see observe against the village in order to verify whether
Speaker 4: it was hostile or of friendly.
Speaker 3: So Thomas just to interrupt for a second, I had
Speaker 3: to I was trying to do some math in my head,
Speaker 3: and I'm not very good at it, but so I
Speaker 3: looked it up. Eighty four kilograms for our American listeners,
Speaker 3: that's one hundred and eighty five pounds of equipment that
Speaker 3: you were lugging up the side of this mountain. And
Speaker 3: once you got up there, you guys had to establish
Speaker 3: your observation post.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was very narrow, very small. It was just
Speaker 4: a little what do you call it? So it goes
Speaker 4: down and then a little bit like a yeah, yes,
Speaker 4: uh and and we have our observation point just in
Speaker 4: front of our our place or our loop, and.
Speaker 1: And it was it was it was not a good place.
Speaker 4: To to to to to be because we haven't we
Speaker 4: didn't have any exit. Yeah, I mean if we were compromised,
Speaker 4: we had a problem.
Speaker 1: And we were compromised. After six days, you.
Speaker 4: Know what happened in well, I was I was on
Speaker 4: I was on the the op, and I could just
Speaker 4: since that there was something wrong.
Speaker 1: And I turned my my head and I could.
Speaker 4: See too, two guys dressed in black, long black beards
Speaker 4: with Kalashnikov's five six meters over the other, over over
Speaker 4: the team, and it happened.
Speaker 1: Happened very quickly.
Speaker 4: They saw us, we saw them, and within one two seconds,
Speaker 4: they were just gone, and that was nine o'clock in
Speaker 4: the morning. And that was a problem because we could
Speaker 4: just we couldn't just pack our gear and and find
Speaker 4: another place, because I mean daytime suicide.
Speaker 1: So we have to stay there.
Speaker 4: And we we we packed all essential equipment in in
Speaker 4: our you know, in our burgens. And a guy called
Speaker 4: Peter and I we we crawled after these two men
Speaker 4: up the cliff. But we've been lying still almost for
Speaker 4: six for six days, so it was like my body
Speaker 4: was you know, putting, putting, being putting down in cement.
Speaker 4: I was so heavy I couldn't move and he couldn't
Speaker 4: move iron. We just came up on the top of
Speaker 4: the cliff, you know, after half an hour, and these
Speaker 4: two guys there were long gone, but we could see
Speaker 4: that they had run down to a little valley, a
Speaker 4: little village on the backside of our h this clip.
Speaker 1: Cliff we were we were laying laying on and.
Speaker 4: They were just communicating with all the other in the village,
Speaker 4: all the other men, and they were talking in some
Speaker 4: radios and made some signals with with with the flax,
Speaker 4: and we just knew that it was a matter of
Speaker 4: time because they before they would you know, engage us.
Speaker 4: So that was that was a that was a shitty situation.
Speaker 3: And then the patrol leader right is calling up higher
Speaker 3: and like asking for air support and q r F
Speaker 3: and they're kind of like, yeah, sorry, it can't help you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we asked for some show of force and what
Speaker 4: sold from the a wax uh that probably a French
Speaker 4: mirage could do a low pass later in order to
Speaker 4: make some sure. We never saw any friends mirage at all,
Speaker 4: I don't know, just drinking.
Speaker 1: Red red wine or whatever. We we never saw some
Speaker 1: some short force.
Speaker 4: Of course we had we had a q i F
Speaker 4: and an American platoon sized q F in background, but
Speaker 4: they were labeled.
Speaker 1: To all the teams in this uh this you know,
Speaker 1: along the border.
Speaker 4: So unless it was really critical, we could just ask
Speaker 4: for cure because our situation wasn't critical. Of course, we compromised,
Speaker 4: but we couldn't just you know call for the cure
Speaker 4: F on this it really was necessary and it was
Speaker 4: you know, two hours flying from background. Uh So so
Speaker 4: even if we had the q F, it will still
Speaker 4: take two hours for the q F to come at
Speaker 4: to our to our location.
Speaker 1: And how did you guys end up finally extracting out
Speaker 1: of that area.
Speaker 4: Well, uh, fortunately the the enemy, the Taliban, I assumed
Speaker 4: they were tally bands. They they just get their reinforcement
Speaker 4: by late afternoon, around seven o'clock. By around about five o'clock, rather,
Speaker 4: it was getting sort of dark, and I could see
Speaker 4: in my in I could see in the village that
Speaker 4: their reinforcement consisting of thirty forty warriors. Probably they came
Speaker 4: almost running down to the village. So they came late.
Speaker 4: And had they come, you know, two hours later, they
Speaker 4: would have time to engage us, and the situation could
Speaker 4: have been completely different.
Speaker 1: But they came late, and that was our lock.
Speaker 4: So we could just climb down the cliff, go down
Speaker 4: in the opposite valley on the south.
Speaker 1: Side, and we had this.
Speaker 4: This you know, from from one one sixty to pick
Speaker 4: us up just after getting dark, so it was very
Speaker 4: close before the landing zone could get you know, could
Speaker 4: get hot and and we couldn't be picked up. But
Speaker 4: they managed to get down and we we went, we
Speaker 4: flew back to the base.
Speaker 3: So any other notable operations from that deployment that we
Speaker 3: should talk about.
Speaker 4: Well, I was, yeah, but it was almost only only recommissions.
Speaker 4: So it's it's I mean that that was that was
Speaker 4: the most well can you call.
Speaker 1: Sort of dramatic.
Speaker 4: I was a lot of some other recommistions, but we
Speaker 4: weren't compromised there. And one of the big the biggest
Speaker 4: lessons learned by the way with this mission was that
Speaker 4: we were too few, too few in the in the
Speaker 4: team and too heavy. So next time we went out,
Speaker 4: we're eight in the team or ten in the team,
Speaker 4: and we have a lighter load and you know, maybe
Speaker 4: only fifty kilos. That meant that our radios was was
Speaker 4: was was further and we could find a better place
Speaker 4: to to put to have to have the op And
Speaker 4: that was that was some listens learning.
Speaker 7: What what do you think you know, having done successful
Speaker 7: recumissions in Afghanistan? Because you know, we talk a lot
Speaker 7: and people talk a lot about how Afghanistan was such
Speaker 7: a hard place to do wrekis because you know, because
Speaker 7: the villagers knew everything, and you know, you had your
Speaker 7: goat herds, you know, like wandering everywhere and it was
Speaker 7: red wings, you know where we see you know, a
Speaker 7: seal team get compromised. What what was it that made
Speaker 7: your recomission successful where you avoid compromise.
Speaker 4: We're extremely careful about choosing our op. You know probably
Speaker 4: know this software falcon View. At that time, we used
Speaker 4: to falcon View and it was extremely efficient and as
Speaker 4: I said before, we were light on we made we
Speaker 4: made this huge mistake being too heavy on the first missions.
Speaker 4: And the next time, as I mentioned, we were much
Speaker 4: better prepared due to falcon View and preparation phase in general,
Speaker 4: and also we just became better, more experienced. You have
Speaker 4: to bear in mind that the Yega CO was very
Speaker 4: inexperienced unit until the.
Speaker 1: End of the nineties.
Speaker 4: We have been on Balkan, yes, but until that point
Speaker 4: the Yeka CO didn't really wasn't deployed.
Speaker 1: So we learned fast.
Speaker 4: During the first months in Afghanistan in in O two
Speaker 4: we learned fast because we made some mistakes, but we
Speaker 4: really learned from these these mistakes and at the end
Speaker 4: of our mission, no note teams were compromised because we
Speaker 4: have learned and and we're just being being good at
Speaker 4: this reky mission UH type of record missions.
Speaker 3: So after Afghanistan, if I'm correct, the next trip was
Speaker 3: doing security for the ambassador in Arad.
Speaker 4: Yes, I was one year almost in in Iraq, four
Speaker 4: months in in the south under the British brigade where
Speaker 4: we did some some recommissions, but mostly the eight months
Speaker 4: it was was in fact dead for the Danish ambassador,
Speaker 4: that's correct.
Speaker 3: What was the what was it like, you know, operationally
Speaker 3: different for you doing w reki in Iraq versus Afghanistan.
Speaker 4: It was completely different terrain in Iraq. In the southern
Speaker 4: part of Iraq it's completely flat and it's even warmer
Speaker 4: than than Afghanistan. So it's extremely difficult to hide in
Speaker 4: the southern Afghana of southern Iraq. And these recommissions we
Speaker 4: did was in some sort of what's it called swamp
Speaker 4: areas with a lot of channels cutting in in thes
Speaker 4: terign and we have to build sort of our opis
Speaker 4: to find some palm trees and just built you know,
Speaker 4: a sort of wall with with with these uh these
Speaker 4: you know, we caught these palm trees up and then
Speaker 4: we made a sort of op there and sometimes we
Speaker 4: had the local farmer, uh you know, they you know,
Speaker 4: passed us ten to fifteen meters from our op. So
Speaker 4: it's very difficult to hide in in in the southern
Speaker 4: part of of of of Iraq.
Speaker 3: And then what was it like trying to run security
Speaker 3: for the ambassador and keeping him safe during this in
Speaker 3: the middle of a war zone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, back there was a very unpleasant place to be because.
Speaker 1: Obviously we were located in green.
Speaker 4: Zone a few hundred meters from the American embassy, and
Speaker 4: we had the ambassador, and we had three to Nankhus's
Speaker 4: armored and we were ten ten jaggers just to take
Speaker 4: care of one v I P. And the back then
Speaker 4: was a war zone at that time. It was extremely
Speaker 4: unpleasant place to be because it was so unpredictable. Either
Speaker 4: you had i DS, you had roadside bombs, you have
Speaker 4: suicide bombers. You I mean they we we you know,
Speaker 4: a dark line on the street in the side of
Speaker 4: the street was just you know, filled with with the explosives.
Speaker 1: And when the the the.
Speaker 4: Column was was passing this this that dark it was
Speaker 4: just it was dessionated family fathers with their with their
Speaker 4: with their wife in the pasenger seat and and their
Speaker 4: kids on the back seat blew themselves up, you know,
Speaker 4: passing some some some coalition convoys. In other words, it's
Speaker 4: completely unpredictable and you can't you can't see the enemy
Speaker 4: when when when when when?
Speaker 1: When?
Speaker 4: This is their motives and and and it was yeah,
Speaker 4: it was, it was. It was a nasty state place
Speaker 4: place to be.
Speaker 3: But you also made you tend to make friends with
Speaker 3: the animals wherever you go. H did you you did
Speaker 3: you adopt another couple of dogs on that trip?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 4: Actually, the Danish ambassador he saw a dog standing and
Speaker 4: was tied to a land post and he ordered, uh,
Speaker 4: the column to stop, and that he ordered us to
Speaker 4: take the dog back home to the embassy. And she
Speaker 4: became a sort of embassy dog. But I found her
Speaker 4: home from for her in Denmark and she was called
Speaker 4: Maggie and she had a long, long, long, beautiful life
Speaker 4: in Denmark. Yeah, so I really like dogs.
Speaker 3: And what was the another story I remember from your book?
Speaker 3: What was the story about sweeping the embassy every time?
Speaker 3: Was it the ambassador every time he'd get frustrated?
Speaker 1: Hmm, Well, I don't recall that or what it was
Speaker 1: that you.
Speaker 3: Uh, there's something about like sweeping the embassy grounds or
Speaker 3: something like that when things didn't go right or didn't
Speaker 3: go according to plan.
Speaker 1: Okay, I can't remember that.
Speaker 3: Okay, like sweeping with a brum, I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: like sweeping the dirt.
Speaker 1: Ah, Okay, yeah, okay, no, I think it was he was.
Speaker 4: He was extremely nice via a pleasant via the Danish ambassador.
Speaker 4: And I don't recall any you know, any punishment in
Speaker 4: terms of eaning those people.
Speaker 3: If I recall right from the book you said he
Speaker 3: got interviewed by some Danish journalist and he said some
Speaker 3: things off the record.
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, I just forgot all about that. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It was a very lift lift wing Danish journalist who
Speaker 4: came and made this interview, and he made the ankle
Speaker 4: so far from the point and the actual interview, so
Speaker 4: when it was broadcast on Danish television, it was a
Speaker 4: completely other, you know angle. So that's that's completely correct,
Speaker 4: my my ambassador the I V he was so angry
Speaker 4: and so frustrated.
Speaker 1: That he sweep the entrance for for two hours. That's
Speaker 1: that's correct. I forgot that.
Speaker 3: I and then I think was it. The next trip
Speaker 3: overseas was interesting, back to Afghanistan, working undercover.
Speaker 4: Yes, for for six months. We we have this on
Speaker 4: the cover operation. It was with with the Danish intelligence service, and.
Speaker 1: Well our actually was sound quite boring.
Speaker 4: Anyway, we have to in some villages in in Afghanistan,
Speaker 4: we have to escort this field officer from the Intelligence
Speaker 4: Services from out of his meetings in order for him
Speaker 4: to interrogate his sources in the local environment. So that
Speaker 4: could be two three o'clock in the morning, and we
Speaker 4: couldn't just you know, drive around in in normal military vehicles,
Speaker 4: so we we bought some old, old cars and and
Speaker 4: we made them look like they were like all the
Speaker 4: other cars, but actually they were quite well maintained.
Speaker 1: And then we we tried our best to blend in
Speaker 1: as as to you know, to look like like Afghans.
Speaker 4: Obviously, we couldn't drive during the day because it was
Speaker 4: too risky and and we would also be exposed, so
Speaker 4: that's that was another reasons why we did in during
Speaker 4: the night.
Speaker 1: So we we painted our phases.
Speaker 4: And we had beards and and local clothes and and
Speaker 4: then just a lot of weapons in the car.
Speaker 1: Uh and the completely on our own.
Speaker 4: We didn't have any backup if if we were compromised there,
Speaker 4: we will have a very very big problem because we
Speaker 4: could we couldn't call Q or anything.
Speaker 1: Were completely on our own.
Speaker 4: So that was the risky part of of of the
Speaker 4: the operation.
Speaker 1: But I mean no, no, no big drama.
Speaker 4: We were almost compromised one time, but that's that's all.
Speaker 4: So just a matter up being extremely low pro profile.
Speaker 4: That was the most important issue with that operation. But
Speaker 4: completely another mindset by the way to do this sort
Speaker 4: of operation, I mean normally we.
Speaker 1: Don't do this, was to do this a very.
Speaker 4: Quiet, low key, low profile operation was a completely another
Speaker 4: mindset for me.
Speaker 3: I remember, it's also like part of the you know,
Speaker 3: because the Danish military is small, and Danish special operations
Speaker 3: it is even smaller. You guys have to like cover
Speaker 3: all of these different missions.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 4: We don't have resources just you know, to have one
Speaker 4: squadron taking care of unconmissional warfare and another ragged action.
Speaker 4: We had to to a as to the best of
Speaker 4: our abilities to to do to do to do it all.
Speaker 4: So that's of course sign consuming, consuming and trigging, but
Speaker 4: that yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 3: So on that note, let's talk about a couple of
Speaker 3: things back home, because you guys also have domestic missions
Speaker 3: and you know, of course training missions that you do
Speaker 3: back home too.
Speaker 1: There was one where you guys did security for an.
Speaker 3: I think it was an economic forum of some sort
Speaker 3: back in Denmark and trained up and prepared extensively for that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's correct. It was an EU meeting and Copenhaiggen
Speaker 4: was hosting this this meeting, and all military units almost
Speaker 4: and all police units were involved in this, in this
Speaker 4: project or this this this meeting, and we we had
Speaker 4: the responsibility for I think, for hotels in order to
Speaker 4: make evacreation evacuation plans for the for the guests attending
Speaker 4: the meetings. That means we had to prepare on the
Speaker 4: roof on the hotels for helicopter extraction, of repelling down
Speaker 4: the sides and fire fire escape plans and so forth.
Speaker 1: Quite boring, actually, but.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean you also prepared base jumping, which I
Speaker 3: wouldn't consider boring.
Speaker 1: No, no, but that I mean we we we considered
Speaker 1: the option, but.
Speaker 4: I mean one hundred and fifty meters doing based on
Speaker 4: you really have you know, you're you've been free folding,
Speaker 4: and it's not it's not on it's not on the
Speaker 4: top of your list.
Speaker 1: Doing based on definitely.
Speaker 3: One of I don't know if it was from the
Speaker 3: same period of time, but I like, maybe my favorite
Speaker 3: picture out of your book is the dude jumping out
Speaker 3: of the helicopter and tackling the guy on the jet ski.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yes, it was just a demo. I think
Speaker 4: it was the egga course. Was it forty years birthday?
Speaker 1: I think so. And it was a demo in in
Speaker 1: in the Harbor.
Speaker 4: So just just show yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then tell us about Night Hawk. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Ninth talk Is is an annual exercise with with various
Speaker 4: foreign units UH from Scandinavia, the Swedes and Norwegians, the British.
Speaker 1: Some American units has been there as well.
Speaker 4: Special Forces Delta was in in the nineties and and
Speaker 4: the beginning of of of uh the tens what they
Speaker 4: call it an American in two thousands.
Speaker 3: You mentioned you mentioned some jager Core guys like jumping
Speaker 3: into Hawaii with Delta at one point on training like
Speaker 3: that sounds like a good gig.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Uh.
Speaker 4: A former starts in major in the Eco cod He
Speaker 4: got personal with with some of the the people from
Speaker 4: from from Delta, and I think this this connection is
Speaker 4: still between these two units.
Speaker 1: The Eco Coat don't talk about it obviously.
Speaker 4: UH and UH and and it's it's it's of course
Speaker 4: very useful for for the YCA Coat to have these
Speaker 4: to have access relations to and and connections in in
Speaker 4: this in this unit because they had training facilities that
Speaker 4: we only can dream of. And that was example is
Speaker 4: exercise on Hawaii whether they jumped in and to make
Speaker 4: an exercise, Yeah, that would be nice.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 3: And so Nighthawk, I mean it's like very like realistic
Speaker 3: full mission profile training that you guys do, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot of assets, at least compared to
Speaker 4: Danish standards, but but a lot of aircraft and a
Speaker 4: lot of helicopters and and it's just preparing during the day, uh,
Speaker 4: and then the missions during the now the night and
Speaker 4: then deeper ifing and then you just go over and
Speaker 4: over again for for eight eighteen days. It's a very
Speaker 4: good exercise, especially because we have to to you know,
Speaker 4: cooperate with with all the all the other units, and
Speaker 4: that's extremely useful.
Speaker 3: And it reminds me that you know, you talk about
Speaker 3: doing a free fall jump into Nighthawk or at least
Speaker 3: one training iterations. Do you want to tell the story
Speaker 3: about your Haglo jump that got a little iffy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were jumping jumping for for thirteen fourteen thousand feet.
Speaker 4: It was a dark night in November, cooled and we
Speaker 4: exited the the one thirty over the the the ocean,
Speaker 4: and I pulled my shoes in a in around ten
Speaker 4: thousand feet and said the cost directly east towards the beach,
Speaker 4: and this uh, this landing zone was an unknown landing zone.
Speaker 4: And I came over the the the the show, and
Speaker 4: I had my cause. And then I started to make
Speaker 4: my final UH to the landing zone.
Speaker 1: But I discovered that I was backing.
Speaker 4: The weather forecast had been wrong, and the wind appeared
Speaker 4: to be much stronger than than the weather forecast said.
Speaker 1: So that was obviously a problem for me to.
Speaker 4: Back in my in my shoes. So I had a
Speaker 4: problem and to make to make this situation a little
Speaker 4: bit more serious. Suddenly I heard this, this sort of whisper.
Speaker 4: I never forget that sound. I have this this and
Speaker 4: I pulled my own the one hand, and so I
Speaker 4: can see over my shoulder, and I see these three
Speaker 4: or four big windmills, wind windmills, maybe three.
Speaker 1: Four hundred meters behind me. Oh, like ocean turbine, the
Speaker 1: turbines for electric.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, And I was backing towards these windmills.
Speaker 1: So that was obviously obviously very shitty situation.
Speaker 4: So the only thing I could do was just to
Speaker 4: to turn one eighty and then fly with with with
Speaker 4: you know, full power between these big windmills. And then
Speaker 4: I landed you know, way way, way way too fast,
Speaker 4: and and and really yeah, but but I'll never forget
Speaker 4: these damn windmills.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: And another training mission in your book that's interesting is
Speaker 3: uh where you guys have to tackle a cruise liner.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a training exercise as a part of
Speaker 4: the dangerous national counter terrorism set up, and we used
Speaker 4: two or three times a year. We trained with with
Speaker 4: the Danish counter Terrorism Police because the CORE also is
Speaker 4: a part of this national setup.
Speaker 1: And it's just.
Speaker 4: You know, we we bought we bought the ship either
Speaker 4: on on fast proving or repelling mostly fast probing, or
Speaker 4: boarding from from from a rip boat. And and with
Speaker 4: these small letters, and then we had this hostage situation
Speaker 4: on the ship, which by the way, is quite complex
Speaker 4: because it's quite difficult to get the overview when when
Speaker 4: we had to navigate inside of a big ship. It's
Speaker 4: difficult with the comps because they can't always reach through
Speaker 4: the walls and all this, so so it can very
Speaker 4: very fast, get very complex. So it was but very
Speaker 4: useful and and and exciting exercises.
Speaker 1: That's super cool.
Speaker 3: And then at this point back to Iraq, can you
Speaker 3: tell us the story about you know You're You're back
Speaker 3: with the Jaggers in Iraq, the in Deep Ship story,
Speaker 3: the chapter from your from your book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a headquarter from one of the local
Speaker 4: militias and one of the big problems in the area
Speaker 4: was that they were firing these rockets, improvised rockets into
Speaker 4: the Danish camp and the British camp.
Speaker 1: So one of our missions was to identify where these.
Speaker 4: Wedding cashiers were, where they where, where they hided all
Speaker 4: all the kits and the ammunition in general. So we
Speaker 4: got this intel on one militia headquarter in the outskirts
Speaker 4: of Basra Jayshaul Martin. Yeah, and for some reason they
Speaker 4: wanted us to go in and look at it. Seemed
Speaker 4: quite clumsy to me, but anyway, that was that was
Speaker 4: a mission. So we were dropped off by the helicopter
Speaker 4: and then had two three kilometers onto this forest area
Speaker 4: consisting of palm trees and a channel cutting through this
Speaker 4: this palmp palm forest what do you call it?
Speaker 1: Around four four kilometers and.
Speaker 4: On the the the satellite photos was just cut through
Speaker 4: maybe twenty or eighteen I think it was these small channels,
Speaker 4: and on the satellite photo on an area of photos,
Speaker 4: it seemed quite instant. It didn't seem that trigger to
Speaker 4: get over these these eighteen or nineteen channels. But after
Speaker 4: getting to the first one we realized that it was.
Speaker 4: First of all, was it was guarded by barb wire,
Speaker 4: so we have to crawl in the barb wire and
Speaker 4: then down these channels, which was much broader than we expected.
Speaker 4: And we discovered after two three channels that it smelled
Speaker 4: like terrible smell, and we discovered it was the the
Speaker 4: the village's sewage system that we have to you know,
Speaker 4: pass every time we went down in these eighteen twenty
Speaker 4: channels into this actual shit from from the village. So
Speaker 4: it was a very long It was a very long
Speaker 4: way with these eighteen twenty channels before we could get
Speaker 4: to the target, and unfortunately we had to get another
Speaker 4: We went another way out and not the same way
Speaker 4: back to the pickup.
Speaker 1: What it was it was, well, that was not pleasant though,
Speaker 1: and I take it you burned to those uniforms when
Speaker 1: you got back. We did, yeah, yeah, uh.
Speaker 3: And then you also had an opportunity was there destruction
Speaker 3: of a rocket cash.
Speaker 4: Uh you guys so long time ago, I can't really remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no worries.
Speaker 3: There's another mission where you guys were the q r
Speaker 3: F for the conventional Danish forces.
Speaker 6: Right, yeah, Actually we were preparing for for another mission
Speaker 6: and platoon command I came running in the tent and said,
Speaker 6: we have to be kue.
Speaker 1: Right now.
Speaker 4: So we just got our weapons and boarded the helicopter
Speaker 4: and were briefed on the way to the to the area.
Speaker 1: And it turned out that.
Speaker 4: That Danish platoon was was not able to get out
Speaker 4: of this village. And from from our position, we we
Speaker 4: tried to to to caught the attention of of the
Speaker 4: Iraqi militia who had caught this this this platoon and
Speaker 4: the rest of the battalion was on the on the
Speaker 4: way and uh, and they came and and and and
Speaker 4: made and made this this one platoon get out. But
Speaker 4: one Danish oulder was was killed in this in this firefight,
Speaker 4: and we we didn't get any real action besides from
Speaker 4: just being standing by in the area and in the
Speaker 4: perimeter of the area.
Speaker 1: But but no, no, no, no real drama.
Speaker 3: And then something else that happened back home. You know,
Speaker 3: your unit was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation by President
Speaker 3: George W.
Speaker 1: Bush.
Speaker 3: And from the way you describe it in the book,
Speaker 3: it seems like that kind of like went without being
Speaker 3: recognized back home at Denmark.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You want to talk a little bit.
Speaker 4: About that, Yeah, yeah, And I'm just getting annoyed by
Speaker 4: thinking about it so many years after.
Speaker 1: But it's just so typical Danish. I mean by coincident.
Speaker 4: I was standing in a in a conference room in
Speaker 4: we had in two thousand and four, I think, I mean,
Speaker 4: two years after we came home from Afghanistan. I'm just
Speaker 4: looking at this photo of our of the boss, Lieutenant
Speaker 4: Colonel Frank Listener, and he was shaking hand with the
Speaker 4: President George Bush. And I went into the to the
Speaker 4: to the office to the guys in there and said,
Speaker 4: what's going on there?
Speaker 1: What did you do over there? And why why have
Speaker 1: we heard anything about that?
Speaker 4: And it turned out us as you said, that that
Speaker 4: the EEGA Core and the Frogman Core, by the way,
Speaker 4: was watered this presidential unionization. I didn't know what it was,
Speaker 4: so I had to google and it's well, it's it's
Speaker 4: it's quite it's quite an achievement.
Speaker 1: So I was proud to get that. To know that.
Speaker 4: I think when we got it, it wasn't it wasn't
Speaker 4: a watered to any units, correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 4: I think from since the Vietnam War, I think it
Speaker 4: hadn't been awarded to that that many units.
Speaker 1: So I I my boss.
Speaker 4: He then addressed the unit, and then then he had
Speaker 4: he addressed the American embassy, and then two weeks later
Speaker 4: the as a ship from the American embassy came and
Speaker 4: we we then got got.
Speaker 1: This little what do you call it a ribbon? Yeah, ribbon? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's just.
Speaker 4: I mean it's it's just typical being a small army,
Speaker 4: and you know, not, why why not celebrate because the
Speaker 4: first time we get this, this this award, why not celebrate?
Speaker 1: Why I never get it? But it's just so typical Danish.
Speaker 3: So tell us a little bit about your exit from
Speaker 3: the unit, Like when when did that day come that
Speaker 3: you decided you were ready to get out of the military.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was forty one years old, and I knew
Speaker 4: that that would in some section and and then I
Speaker 4: was just you know, pushing paper and I didn't want
Speaker 4: to do that. I wanted to be in the army
Speaker 4: in order to be uh you know, you know, being
Speaker 4: being being in being in a team, not not doing
Speaker 4: a faboration of orders or what do you call it?
Speaker 4: All this, I didn't I didn't want to do that.
Speaker 4: So I left the egga co arm As forty years
Speaker 4: forty one years old, after after eleven years of service. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and that was I didn't mind. Actually, but you know,
Speaker 4: I just drove out of the main gate. I left
Speaker 4: two cases of beers uh to to to the to
Speaker 4: the to the squadron, and we just had a beer
Speaker 4: and then I drove drove out with my dog through
Speaker 4: the main gate.
Speaker 1: And I don't think you do the same.
Speaker 4: Way in in in in in the American Army, I
Speaker 4: think you have a you have a an exit which
Speaker 4: is more celebrated that you put them that way.
Speaker 3: I don't think you just leave your uni. Some some
Speaker 3: do and some don't. Yeah, it really, it really depends.
Speaker 3: I mean there are unfortunately stories you know, a soldier
Speaker 3: even who loses his leg and kind of they slide
Speaker 3: his discharge papers across the table like see yah. But
Speaker 3: there are other times, you know, I was very fortunate,
Speaker 3: you know, the guys gave me a plaque and said
Speaker 3: thank you and all this stuff, and it was a
Speaker 3: very nice axit.
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, well it's not because I'm feeling sorry for myself,
Speaker 4: not at all.
Speaker 1: I just I mean, why not why not? You know? Yeah? Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they don't get it.
Speaker 3: Is that sort of what led to you writing your book, uh, Jagger?
Speaker 3: Because the people of that mark just don't really know
Speaker 3: what you guys do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sort of sort of. Part of it was. Another
Speaker 4: part was that I I really didn't what to do.
Speaker 4: I was forty in forty one years old, and I
Speaker 4: didn't have a clue what to do with my life.
Speaker 1: So why not maybe write a book?
Speaker 4: And I made I made a pitch, and I believed
Speaker 4: it could be a nice way to sort of work
Speaker 4: with these emotional dimension of the job that could be
Speaker 4: I think that could be helpful.
Speaker 1: And that was that.
Speaker 4: That was another part of the reason. So it was
Speaker 4: these two main reasons. Yeah, and then I pitched for
Speaker 4: some publishing companies. I got a four or five notes,
Speaker 4: and then I got a yes, and then I.
Speaker 1: Started writing the book in two thousand and eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and tell us about the controversy when the book came out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course I've cleared the book. I have some
Speaker 4: some lawyers, two lawyers to to to read the book
Speaker 4: before I went to before we published, I wrote to
Speaker 4: the Yega call listen, I'm I'm ready with my book,
Speaker 4: now do you want to read it? And it didn't
Speaker 4: manage to to to reply on that email. I got
Speaker 4: some of my teammates to read the book. So I
Speaker 4: was completely confident and sure that this book didn't reach
Speaker 4: my confidentiality Uh what they call it agreement?
Speaker 1: What's the word? Yeah? Yeah, like a non disclosure agreement.
Speaker 4: So but but then and then I just pushed pushed
Speaker 4: the button and it was was it was printed and
Speaker 4: by a coincident, it was discovered by by a journalist
Speaker 4: who interviewed the.
Speaker 1: The defense minister and he called the Yega call.
Speaker 4: The the the the the military command and said, what
Speaker 4: what this book coming from this Yega?
Speaker 1: Do you know about that? Uh? And uh and they didn't.
Speaker 4: So it was then it became a huge candle because
Speaker 4: the military they believed that I I reached my confident
Speaker 4: confidentiality agreement and they wanted to put me away for
Speaker 4: eleven years in or twelve years actually in prison and
Speaker 4: it was a huge candle in in in Denmark, so
Speaker 4: so I just went on the radar for the for
Speaker 4: the next twelve months.
Speaker 1: During this this period, I was suspended from work.
Speaker 4: I was interrogated by by the the the lawyers from
Speaker 4: from from the from the army, and at the end
Speaker 4: they came to the conclusion that they wouldn't do anything
Speaker 4: further with this book. And and they they they I
Speaker 4: was put back into service again. Uh, and and doing
Speaker 4: my my the rest part of my of my service
Speaker 4: in the military outside the eecago in another unit, national
Speaker 4: count unit.
Speaker 1: I was. I was doing that so huge cancel.
Speaker 4: But but no, completely stupid. Instead of bracing the book
Speaker 4: and making some pr but that they choose to make
Speaker 4: this big, big scandal.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask, I mean, did all the
Speaker 3: controversy actually help sell the book?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Denmark.
Speaker 4: I mean if you sell, if you sell ten thousand
Speaker 4: books in Denmark, it's a bestseller.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: I think seven days after my release, I had sold
Speaker 4: thirty thousand books. And now it has sold totally including
Speaker 4: the foreign market in Germany, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Bulgaria, it
Speaker 4: has sold I think four hundred and fifty thousand copies.
Speaker 4: Now that's amazing, that's huge. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 4: a lot of books in Sweden and Norway, but of
Speaker 4: course obviously most in Denmark.
Speaker 1: But it's it's a lot, it's a so I I
Speaker 1: didn't complain, but it wasn't my intention to.
Speaker 4: Make to make this controversy. It was not my intention.
Speaker 4: My intention at all. I just wanted to make to
Speaker 4: write a good story about about you know, about being
Speaker 4: a soldier. But it didn't turn out that way, and
Speaker 4: I made some good money.
Speaker 3: And that I'm I'm biased, of course, as I said
Speaker 3: earlier on, I mean, I think it's a great book.
Speaker 1: It's called Jagger at War with the Elite.
Speaker 3: You guys can find it now, obviously in Danish, also
Speaker 3: in English.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys will check it out.
Speaker 3: And after Yager came out, you wrote some novels too, right.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've been writing five novels and and uh two books.
Speaker 1: What do you call it? This motivational type of books. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like leadership inspiration that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah, but five novels about my my main character,
Speaker 4: Michael Plisner, and of course he's a x X jeger
Speaker 4: uh and they take place different places in Somma.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I went down three times to Somalia to make research
Speaker 4: in two thousand and twelve to interview this tribe which
Speaker 4: is in my second novel, which is called Black Dawn.
Speaker 4: They take place in Greenland. The third in this area
Speaker 4: is called dead Man's Bay. It takes place in Greenland
Speaker 4: in the main in the capital nuk and then on
Speaker 4: the Kola Peninsula Russian formal submarine based just on the
Speaker 4: border on Finland, and then about human trafficking as well.
Speaker 1: So that's the subjects. Are are those books available in English? No? No,
Speaker 1: I would like to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would like to, but it's difficult as a Dane.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's very difficult as a Dane because you have.
Speaker 1: All your your your your one yourself.
Speaker 4: You're right, I know, Jacks, So it's very difficult for
Speaker 4: a tiny Ran nation. For me to to penetrate the
Speaker 4: foreign market is very difficult. But obviously I would like to. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I'd love to see it too. I love
Speaker 4: to read them.
Speaker 3: And then what are some of you also got involved
Speaker 3: in a bunch of TV projects, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a British format. It's called Corps.
Speaker 4: The right stuff, and it's just it's it's it's it's
Speaker 4: basically reality TV, but it's quite fun. And we have
Speaker 4: these fifteen students and in a period of eight days
Speaker 4: we we we make this condensated version of the election
Speaker 4: calls and then you know, one, two, three, maybe three
Speaker 4: finish and it's broadcasters on on on Daish television. It's
Speaker 4: it's good, it's good fun and it makes makes me
Speaker 4: a little you know, exposed, so so I can do
Speaker 4: some more lectures and make some more money.
Speaker 1: So that's cool. That's okay. How many seasons of the
Speaker 1: show have you done? Eight? Oh?
Speaker 6: Wow, okay, I've been participated in six.
Speaker 4: I declined the last season because I want to. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we couldn't agree in the contract.
Speaker 3: And you said there's something else that you're working on
Speaker 3: with Colombia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just mentioned it because it might be interesting,
Speaker 4: but I mean, it's it's it's a Danish series or
Speaker 4: I don't know whether it be interesting for you at all.
Speaker 1: But I just went to Columbia.
Speaker 4: I went to Columbia in twenty twenty two for for
Speaker 4: one month, and the mission was to to to show
Speaker 4: the Cathills dominance in Colombia in producing cocaine. They have
Speaker 4: never been produced so much cocaine globally as there is now,
Speaker 4: and they will never been been consumed so much cocaine
Speaker 4: as there is now. So I was embedded with with
Speaker 4: the Colombia and special forces called Columbiu what they called
Speaker 4: Comando Jumbler in Sarah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pled pleasure to be with these these guys.
Speaker 4: And I went into the jungle with them in their
Speaker 4: black hawks and we identified cocaine labs and UH and
Speaker 4: blew them up. And I was just with with with
Speaker 4: my camera crew, camera man and UH and in his
Speaker 4: rots and I was in the lapse in the jungle
Speaker 4: for this for this period of period of time, and
Speaker 4: also lived with a cocaine farmer and his son for
Speaker 4: four days. And I saw how they they took the
Speaker 4: leaves from the coca the coca trees, and how they
Speaker 4: blinded them, and how they made the coca pasta, and
Speaker 4: they smuggled the coca pasta out through the jungle to
Speaker 4: other transit points where the car cells traded this cocaine
Speaker 4: pasta to other laboratories who made the final cocaine as
Speaker 4: we know.
Speaker 1: With a white powder.
Speaker 4: And we just and what that was the the the
Speaker 4: the the laboratories we we demolished, and also had the
Speaker 4: opportunity to interview some some people from the biggest cartel
Speaker 4: in Colombia called Clandale Golfer, a hit man from Clandale Golfer.
Speaker 1: I interviewed crazy, crazy guy.
Speaker 4: His his his living was just his work was get
Speaker 4: up in the morning and kill people. And he just
Speaker 4: got you know, a hit list every day and two
Speaker 4: three people he went out just to bank, to to
Speaker 4: to to to eliminate them. Four weeks because I did
Speaker 4: four weeks because before I made my interview, he had
Speaker 4: to kill a pregnant woman. He didn't like that, but
Speaker 4: that was his life and it was fucked because he
Speaker 4: couldn't just resign. He was fucked in in the cartel.
Speaker 4: I mean that just let the people that don't let
Speaker 4: them go. So he was in there for life. So
Speaker 4: it's a crazy, crazy, crazy country.
Speaker 1: And that's gonna be Danish television, yes, and Danish television yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Anything else going on today, Thomas, that you want to
Speaker 3: tell people about anything going on either in your life
Speaker 3: or your career or anything that you want.
Speaker 1: Folks to know, Well, no, not nothing of interest.
Speaker 4: I can I don't think so okay, it would be
Speaker 4: too boring to tell My life is a little bit
Speaker 4: boring these days, so I hopefully I can find that
Speaker 4: that way out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where can people find you on the on the
Speaker 3: internet if they want to reach out to you?
Speaker 4: Uh, Thomas Hotsock email dot com. Okay, I have my
Speaker 4: I have my website website Thomas Hotsuck dot d k
Speaker 4: DK obviously for Denmark, and then I'm on Instagram Thomas
Speaker 4: on the sc redside as well.
Speaker 3: We'll have links down the description for podcast listeners or
Speaker 3: YouTube viewers. You guys will be able to find that
Speaker 3: stuff down there.
Speaker 1: Ud.
Speaker 3: Do we have any questions for Thomas, No, no questions. Okay,
Speaker 3: So that's it. Thomas will let you go. I know
Speaker 3: it's quite late where you are in your neck in
Speaker 3: the woods and Denmark. Really appreciate you though, making the
Speaker 3: effort to dial in today and do this interview.
Speaker 1: Thank you pleasure finding me. Thank you very much. All Right, we.
Speaker 3: Will see all you guys next time. Hey, guys, it's Jack.
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