Speaker 1: Love Babe.
Speaker 2: This is pet Life Radio.
Speaker 3: Let's Talk pets.
Speaker 1: Hello, cat lovers, Welcome to catatun I'm your show host
Speaker 1: Michelle Burne and I have a great show be today
Speaker 1: because it deals with the health of our cats, and
Speaker 1: what's more important than that. So stay tuned and we'll
Speaker 1: be right back.
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Speaker 4: Let's talk pets on Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone. I'd like to welcome doctor Heather Davis.
Speaker 1: She is a DVM and she is the director of
Speaker 1: Clinical Affairs and Veterinary Services for Pegasus. And Pegasus is
Speaker 1: a company that is under PBI Gordon which they're the
Speaker 1: maker of lots of wonderful medications for your cats. So
Speaker 1: welcome doctor Heather to the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Michelle for such a warm welcome. I'm looking
Speaker 3: forward to talking with you today.
Speaker 1: So we talked about a bit about your company, but
Speaker 1: we're really going to focus on something that is pretty common,
Speaker 1: more common than you would think, in cats, and that's
Speaker 1: HCM hypertrophic cardiomipathy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very good, hypert it's a mouthful, I know. Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: you're right, affects a lot of cats. About one in
Speaker 3: seven cats has the disease. And what's really been kind
Speaker 3: of said and frustrating for veterinarians is this disease is
Speaker 3: known as the silent killer in you know, our feline patients,
Speaker 3: and it's because the cats don't present with anything wrong
Speaker 3: with them until the disease is so far progressed that
Speaker 3: the cats are actually having pretty serious side effects and
Speaker 3: so getting the cat seen and looked at early on
Speaker 3: is so important.
Speaker 1: Okay, what would you say as to why this is
Speaker 1: so common in cats, more common than we would imagine.
Speaker 3: So that's a and there's a couple of different factors
Speaker 3: the disease process. In some of the breeds like rag
Speaker 3: dolls and sphinx and main coon. We know that there
Speaker 3: is a genetic link to the disease process. But we
Speaker 3: also know that there's other populations of our feline kitties
Speaker 3: that something is wrong with their heart muscle, and so
Speaker 3: that heart muscle tends to just start working in a
Speaker 3: really kind of abnormal way. It works too hard, actually,
Speaker 3: and the muscle itself gets pretty stiff and enlarges. And
Speaker 3: when it does that, it causes the left side of
Speaker 3: the heart, the muscle to get thicker. And then when
Speaker 3: it gets thicker, it takes up space in the left ventricle,
Speaker 3: and so it decreases the heart's ability to fill and
Speaker 3: then ultimately pump blood out to the rest of the
Speaker 3: cat's body.
Speaker 1: Okay, and of course it's heart disease for people. You
Speaker 1: think of heart disease, and yes, there's certain physical, you know,
Speaker 1: features to your body and genetics, but stress and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't associate heart disease with cats because I mean, they're
Speaker 1: the most chill creatures around, right, They sleep like eighteen
Speaker 1: hours a day and they're pretty mallow. So you think
Speaker 1: of heart disease and go, whoa, But it's genetic, So
Speaker 1: would you say it's more genetic than not?
Speaker 3: We do know right now, as you know, medicine is
Speaker 3: always evolving, right, and so what we've been able to
Speaker 3: tell in those specific breeds there's a genetic component to it,
Speaker 3: and we're in the process of identifying it better so
Speaker 3: that we can diagnose it in these cats as far
Speaker 3: as that genetic component a little bit easier and faster,
Speaker 3: But in the rest of the population it can be
Speaker 3: an abnormality of this the heart muscle itself. And you're
Speaker 3: right is the fact is that because you know kitties,
Speaker 3: they sleep all day, or they're more relaxed, or they
Speaker 3: hide away, and it's harder for them, the pet parents
Speaker 3: to detect if there is something wrong with their kitties,
Speaker 3: which makes it even more complicated with this disease process.
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks, and you hit on something else and we
Speaker 1: talk about this. I've talked about this pretty frequently on Catitude,
Speaker 1: but it's it's one of those things you can not
Speaker 1: tell cat parents enough. Cats are stoic creatures. I experienced
Speaker 1: this with Dennis when he had crystals in his urine,
Speaker 1: very different to what we're talking about here, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know how bad off he was until he started
Speaker 1: to make this like a like an owl like sound,
Speaker 1: like not like a meal, Like, how can I like
Speaker 1: blown around? It was a weird sound. So he rained,
Speaker 1: but one place wanted to put him down and I said, no,
Speaker 1: we're not doing that, and so I went to the vet.
Speaker 1: It was like Saturday after or Sunday afternoon or something,
Speaker 1: and so then I went to the vet Monday and
Speaker 1: he had to have surgery this whole thing, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't even aware. So what is your view on that?
Speaker 1: Because it's really hard to tell when our cats aren't
Speaker 1: doing well. So what do you use as to pet
Speaker 1: parents Because a lot of times you're like, yeah, they're fine,
Speaker 1: they don't nip to go the doctor. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a seed to that.
Speaker 3: So one of the easiest things that a pet parent
Speaker 3: can do is well their kitty is sleeping, is to
Speaker 3: count the number of breasts that their kitty is taking
Speaker 3: and to time it. And what we're looking for is
Speaker 3: a normal a cat should breathe while they're sleeping thirty times.
Speaker 3: Let anything less than thirty is a normal resting breath rate.
Speaker 3: And if they do that, then they can kind of
Speaker 3: track whether or not it's abnormal. So if you're a
Speaker 3: kitty is sleeping and you count the number of breasts
Speaker 3: they take in a minute, and if it's greater than thirty,
Speaker 3: then they should definitely take their kiddy into the vat
Speaker 3: and get it looked at. That's something that we have
Speaker 3: learned over the last few years is HCM has become
Speaker 3: more popular as far as getting the genetic tests and
Speaker 3: finding what diagnostics will help confirm the disease. But what
Speaker 3: the pet parent really can do is count the breasts
Speaker 3: while they're sleeping and keep track of it, because those
Speaker 3: are good indications that there might be something going on.
Speaker 1: That is fantastic stick information. I've never heard that a
Speaker 1: bread test to check their heart. So do you find
Speaker 1: in your experience that there's challenges out there because there's
Speaker 1: so much information with the Internet, and then there's talimed,
Speaker 1: which this is nothing against talamed, but there's so many
Speaker 1: opportunities for pet parents to get wrong information.
Speaker 3: So do you do?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you see these all the time? I would
Speaker 1: find it if I was a veterinarian pretty discouraging, just
Speaker 1: because people would come in and self Like people self
Speaker 1: diagnose themselves. They're probably doing that for their cats.
Speaker 3: Right, So sometimes I feel like my work associate is
Speaker 3: doctor Google, and I think that that we have to
Speaker 3: be very careful with that and with this particular disease.
Speaker 3: If a pet parent were to say, notice that their
Speaker 3: cat was breathing greater than thirty breasts per minute, the
Speaker 3: best thing they can do is go into the veterinary
Speaker 3: And we can't stress that enough because that veterinarian. One
Speaker 3: of the other steps that the veterinarian needs to take
Speaker 3: in or to be able to diagnose it, is to
Speaker 3: listen to the kitty's heart. Kitties, like you said, you know,
Speaker 3: are they're very stoic and they're quiet. They're also very
Speaker 3: variable when they go places as far as what kind
Speaker 3: of physical exam findings that they will have, and so
Speaker 3: you really want to get them into the clinic to
Speaker 3: allow that veterinarian to do a couple of things. Number One,
Speaker 3: listen to their heart, and they're going to listen to
Speaker 3: see if there's a heart murmur. This particular disease has
Speaker 3: a particular murmur that's very very common that a veterinarian
Speaker 3: can hear, and so you want to be able to
Speaker 3: hear it. But also the veterinarian needs to get some
Speaker 3: blood work, and that way, there's a lot of things
Speaker 3: that can be checked off the list. I'm sure when
Speaker 3: your kitty was sick they ran blood work on it
Speaker 3: as well, just to double check it. And so getting
Speaker 3: into the clinic to allow a veterinarian to really do
Speaker 3: a very thorough physical exam, to be able to you know,
Speaker 3: start working through some of the diagnostics is important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it seems so. So what happens to you know,
Speaker 1: what can the parent expect if they did the bread test,
Speaker 1: they took their pat too the terinarian and they unfortunately
Speaker 1: get the diagnosis that their cat has HCM. Is it treatable? Livable?
Speaker 1: Is it like, oh, it's It's not the end of
Speaker 1: the world, right, Hopefully their cat can be treated. Do
Speaker 1: they need surgery?
Speaker 3: So I think right now it is so important, especially
Speaker 3: with the breath tests, knowing about it and advocating for it.
Speaker 3: Is getting the cats into the veterinarian as early as
Speaker 3: possible in this disease process. That way, when the veterinarian
Speaker 3: the cat cut does come in, they can start, you know,
Speaker 3: they can get blood work and evaluate the overall body
Speaker 3: system of the cat. This particular diagnosis sometimes is not
Speaker 3: super straightforward, and so they have to Veterinarians will have
Speaker 3: to rule out other causes that can you know, almost
Speaker 3: act like this disease, and so working through those different diagnostics,
Speaker 3: you know, getting the blood work, taking a chest X ray. Ultimately,
Speaker 3: you know, depending on how it is presenting, getting an echocardiogram,
Speaker 3: which is an ultrasound to the heart is the definitive
Speaker 3: way to be able to diagnose it. And if you've
Speaker 3: diagnosed it early, then it allows the veterinarian to make
Speaker 3: choices as far as medications that can help the cat
Speaker 3: and hopefully you know, facilitate prolonging the disease process and
Speaker 3: intervening there earlier. Unfortunately, you know, because the cats are
Speaker 3: stoic and they're not going to probably relay those clinical
Speaker 3: signs that there is a problem. What's been an issue
Speaker 3: in veterinary medicine is that a pet parent will leave
Speaker 3: for work one day and then when they come home,
Speaker 3: then the kitty is really really sick and they don't
Speaker 3: know why. So really getting in and having those screening
Speaker 3: veterinary appointments where the doctor can get a baseline and
Speaker 3: to get an idea and intervene early as key.
Speaker 1: Okay, good to Now we're going to take a short
Speaker 1: break and we'll be right.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone. We're talking to doctor Heather about HCM,
Speaker 1: which is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in cats, which is more common
Speaker 1: than you would think, so doctor Heather, So let's say
Speaker 1: we took our cat to that did the testing and
Speaker 1: found out unfortunately the cat has HCM and it was
Speaker 1: caught early enough. What should the pet parent expect to do?
Speaker 1: Is it just treat with medicine. You usually got a
Speaker 1: diagnosis about heart disease and it's shocking.
Speaker 3: So you're right, it is shocking. And up until recently,
Speaker 3: there wasn't a treatment option for these kiddies. What was
Speaker 3: available for treatment and were products that treated in the
Speaker 3: kitties when they got more sick and the heart disease
Speaker 3: became more aggressive and the kitties were more compromised. And
Speaker 3: recently in the last few months that a product has
Speaker 3: been improved that allows them a veterinarian an opportunity to
Speaker 3: intervene earlier to be able to actually treat it or
Speaker 3: manage the disease process. So that is, veterinary medicine is progressing.
Speaker 3: But again, getting them in there to be screened early
Speaker 3: on allows that opportunity for a product that is designed
Speaker 3: to help manage the disease to have at time to
Speaker 3: be active and not just rely on the disease progression
Speaker 3: and then maintaining the animal's quality of life due to
Speaker 3: a really sad disease.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Let's talk a little about how medication
Speaker 1: is progressing inveterinary medicine. You mentioned that there was a
Speaker 1: newer medication approved for HCM. You know, for people, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of clinical testing trials and all of it.
Speaker 1: How are clinical childs set up for cats? Just kind
Speaker 1: of a basic because I'm curious.
Speaker 3: Sure, So, I think the first thing that pet parents
Speaker 3: should know is that when a drug product says on
Speaker 3: a carton or on a bottle that it's been approved
Speaker 3: by the FDA, it means that that manufacturer has gone
Speaker 3: through the same rigorous standards to prove both safety and
Speaker 3: efficacy as a human drug does in order to get
Speaker 3: FDA approval. And so some people think that, oh, I
Speaker 3: bet you, animal drugs aren't held to the same standard
Speaker 3: as say, big pharmaceutical or human pharmaceutical companies are held
Speaker 3: to in order to make drugs for humans, and that's
Speaker 3: not true. It's the same rigorous standards, and so companies
Speaker 3: like the company I work for, we're held accountable to
Speaker 3: buy the agency to make sure that the product that
Speaker 3: we develop is not only going to work in the pets,
Speaker 3: but it's going to be absorbed how as support to
Speaker 3: be in order to treat and manage a disease, but
Speaker 3: it's also going to be safe for use. And I
Speaker 3: think that's very, very important for pet parents that when
Speaker 3: you do have a sick animal like kitties that have
Speaker 3: hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and you're going to medicate them, you want
Speaker 3: them to be on a product that you know is
Speaker 3: going to be safe and will help them.
Speaker 1: Of course, what are your thoughts on alternative medicine for cats?
Speaker 3: So I think that alternative medicine you mean as far
Speaker 3: as like laser therapy or acupuncture. Is that what you're asking?
Speaker 1: Yes, And I've had all kinds of things, herbs, smelling herbs,
Speaker 1: even chocolate therapy for cats.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: I think it's a great question. And I think multimodal
Speaker 3: therapy is always something as practitioners we should consider because
Speaker 3: I say, kitties are very complex animals. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of different things that you know, bringing all aspects of
Speaker 3: treatment I think is important. What I do think though,
Speaker 3: we have to keep in mind is sometimes those herbs
Speaker 3: can interact with traditional medicine. And so if your pet
Speaker 3: parent is administering an herb to a kitty for treatment,
Speaker 3: for that multimodal therapy, it's so important to let your
Speaker 3: veterinarian know that you are administering that because they can
Speaker 3: do a search and make sure that there's not going
Speaker 3: to be any interactions because even if it is an herb,
Speaker 3: sometimes they can alter how other products are absorbed. And
Speaker 3: so just letting them know, hey, this is part of
Speaker 3: my at home treatment plan, so that the vets can
Speaker 3: double check that it's not going to negatively impact a
Speaker 3: traditional medicine.
Speaker 1: That's a great answer. And I was thinking of something
Speaker 1: that's very popular these days is CBD oil for pets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think with CBD oil, as with anything,
Speaker 3: we always have to be really careful because if products
Speaker 3: that are not manufactured in facilities or that are compounded,
Speaker 3: they're not held to the same standard as products that
Speaker 3: are regulated by the FDA. You know drug companies like
Speaker 3: the company I work for, Human drug for companies or
Speaker 3: people that manufacture out of facilities that are regulated by
Speaker 3: an agency. It means that that agency comes in and
Speaker 3: regularly and they checked your work. They make sure that
Speaker 3: there's nothing harmful that's in your product, that you have
Speaker 3: tests that are in place that make sure that nothing
Speaker 3: harmful is getting into the products that are being administered
Speaker 3: to any of the animals. But also to make sure
Speaker 3: that when you pick up a tablet or you pick
Speaker 3: up an oil, that when you look at the label
Speaker 3: and it says in each drop of oil or in
Speaker 3: each tablet, there's this much product, be it a drug
Speaker 3: or an oil, that there is actually that much product available.
Speaker 3: Because you know, when your animal is sick, you want
Speaker 3: to make sure that the medication, be it herbal supplements
Speaker 3: or if it's a drugs, that it is that you
Speaker 3: are administering the amount that is supposed to be there
Speaker 3: and without being held to standards. It's just it's hard
Speaker 3: for hard to say that that's that's true. And when
Speaker 3: your pet is as a bad disease such as HCM,
Speaker 3: you don't want to take that chance.
Speaker 1: Right misdiagnosed or miss calculating dosage. Yeah, exactly so with
Speaker 1: the HCM. So let's say you know your cat's diagnosed.
Speaker 1: It's not the end of the world. It was caught early,
Speaker 1: your cat can go on medication. What is the life
Speaker 1: of the cat after the diagnosis? I'm treated? So how
Speaker 1: does the life change?
Speaker 3: I wish I had a better answer for you. Each
Speaker 3: cat is dependent on itself as far as number one,
Speaker 3: when in its disease process was it diagnosed. The earlier
Speaker 3: you can catch it and intervene, the better, But that
Speaker 3: how aggressively that disease progresses is each cat's own journey.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, now that we know what to look for
Speaker 3: and we know what to be on on guard for
Speaker 3: and what to evaluate, it will help us, as it
Speaker 3: veterinary medicine, to be able to give you a better answer.
Speaker 3: But unfortunately, right now all we can say is that
Speaker 3: early intervention, early screening is one of the best things
Speaker 3: that you can do as far as to hopefully slow
Speaker 3: that progress. But that cat's own body is going to
Speaker 3: determine the rate in which that disease gets.
Speaker 1: Worse, right, And no, two cats are like no.
Speaker 3: Two cats are like no.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, doctor Heather, what would you tell our listening
Speaker 1: audience as far as how they should be proactive and
Speaker 1: taking care of their cats, help and watching medications and
Speaker 1: so forth.
Speaker 3: So I think in reference to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, what I
Speaker 3: would recommend her listeners would be the next time your
Speaker 3: kiddies asleep on your lap, is set a timer. Check
Speaker 3: it's a sleeping breath rate, and what you want to
Speaker 3: see is anything less than thirty. If it's over thirty.
Speaker 3: The next morning is ring your veterinarian, give them a call,
Speaker 3: let them know that you want to get them into
Speaker 3: the office and have them screened and have a good
Speaker 3: physical exam going on. And I think the other thing
Speaker 3: that I would say is when your kiddies are sick
Speaker 3: and if there is a problem, if it's heart disease
Speaker 3: or not, is so important to be aware as far
Speaker 3: as what you're giving them. Communicate with you or veterinarian.
Speaker 3: If you're using multimodel therapy. But when you're buying products
Speaker 3: and you're using it using products that are FDA approved
Speaker 3: and come from manufacturers that are held to the standards
Speaker 3: that are required in order to get drugs approved, is
Speaker 3: really very very important for the safety and efficacy of
Speaker 3: the product and your animal doctor.
Speaker 1: Heather, thank you so much. You've given us some great
Speaker 1: information on HCM. So here's something I'd like to ask,
Speaker 1: as you know you're practicing veterinarian, what are some of
Speaker 1: your peeves when you are in the office. This is
Speaker 1: your chance to vent that drive you crazy that pet
Speaker 1: parents do.
Speaker 3: I guess the doctor google thing is probably I think
Speaker 3: most veterinarians would probably answer that because we always brace
Speaker 3: for impact when pet parents say that, but we know
Speaker 3: it's the reality. Right. We live in a digital age
Speaker 3: where everybody is googling, and I guess what I would
Speaker 3: always say is, you know, if you're googling something and
Speaker 3: you're trying to diagnose something on your own, you know
Speaker 3: you want to make sure it's a reliable source, but
Speaker 3: just don't go with the first thing that comes up
Speaker 3: on that engine search. And if you have questions, take
Speaker 3: them to your veterinarians. Yes, that we might cringe a
Speaker 3: little bit when you say that, but I would much
Speaker 3: rather you ask me the question then, or go on
Speaker 3: your own and we can work through a problem together.
Speaker 3: And I think across the board, most veterinarians would say
Speaker 3: that is I'd rather you ask, but I do cringe
Speaker 3: a little bit because it means that you've done probably
Speaker 3: a lot of hard investigative work and I'm going to
Speaker 3: have to probably change that narrative a little bit potentially.
Speaker 3: But then there's other ones that come in with great sources.
Speaker 3: So that's probably my biggest pet peeve is.
Speaker 1: That, okay, anything in particular other than that that pet
Speaker 1: parents do that you're just like, oh geez, Because I
Speaker 1: wonder from the veterinary point of view, if you ever
Speaker 1: go and you know, see new patient or someone's coming
Speaker 1: in and you're like, oh, I cannot believe this.
Speaker 3: So this is gonna sound funny. And this is probably
Speaker 3: more relevant for dog owners because I don't think most
Speaker 3: cat owners probably do this, but giving your dog a
Speaker 3: bath and bringing it into the clinic wet and because
Speaker 3: then I smell like your wet dog the rest of
Speaker 3: the day, and so I know that's, like I said,
Speaker 3: that's probably not relevant to your listening audience, but it's okay.
Speaker 3: If your puppy is dirty and they've been playing, that
Speaker 3: means that they're living a full life. And I would
Speaker 3: much rather, you know, dust off some hair than be
Speaker 3: wet and sticky and things like that. So that, like said,
Speaker 3: that's probably not relevant to you.
Speaker 1: It's true, but it's kind of like you know, yes,
Speaker 1: you want to take your shower yourself before you go
Speaker 1: to the doctor because you're probably gonna wearing a paper nightgown.
Speaker 1: Not the same for your doggie, so or just let
Speaker 1: them be all right, but dog the Heather, I want
Speaker 1: to thank you so much for coming on catching I'm
Speaker 1: telling us about HCM.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much Michelle for having me. I very
Speaker 3: much enjoyed this.
Speaker 1: Need too, and I learned a lot. I hope you
Speaker 1: all enjoyed the show. I sure did. I want to
Speaker 1: thank doctor Heather Davis for giving us such great information
Speaker 1: about feline HCM. I'd also like to thank the listeners
Speaker 1: of Catitude. Thank you so much for your loyalty all
Speaker 1: these years. I greatly appreciate it. Thanks to my cat crew,
Speaker 1: who I will be listening to your breath while you're
Speaker 1: sleeping now to try the breath test. So thank you guys, Dennis,
Speaker 1: Charlotte and Mollie for me in the great counts you are.
Speaker 1: And of course thank you to my amazing producer for
Speaker 1: doing such a great job. And making all the shows,
Speaker 1: especially mine, so wonderful. Thank you Mark. You guys have
Speaker 1: no idea what a great editor he is. He's fabulous,
Speaker 1: so thank you so much for all your work. Mark,
Speaker 1: and hey, remember lose the attitude, have tatitude.
Speaker 4: Let's talk pets every week on demand only on Petlifradio
Speaker 4: dot com.
Speaker 3: Don't know
Speaker 6: A