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Speaker 1: Love Babe.

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Speaker 2: This is pet Life Radio.

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Speaker 3: Let's Talk pets.

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Speaker 1: Hello, cat lovers, Welcome to catatun I'm your show host

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Michelle Burne and I have a great show be today

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because it deals with the health of our cats, and

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what's more important than that. So stay tuned and we'll

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be right back.

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Speaker 2: You know the expression cats have nine lives? Well, what

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if you can give them one more? But give them ten?

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Movement is on a mission to help give cats an

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extra life. How with spae and neoter spain or nootering

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your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and

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it helps control free rolling cat populations too. Learn more

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about the benefits of spae and neuter and meet Scooter,

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the neutered cat at give them ten dot org. That's

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give them ten dot org.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk pets on Petlifradio dot com.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone. I'd like to welcome doctor Heather Davis.

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She is a DVM and she is the director of

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Clinical Affairs and Veterinary Services for Pegasus. And Pegasus is

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a company that is under PBI Gordon which they're the

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maker of lots of wonderful medications for your cats. So

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welcome doctor Heather to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Michelle for such a warm welcome. I'm looking

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forward to talking with you today.

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Speaker 1: So we talked about a bit about your company, but

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we're really going to focus on something that is pretty common,

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more common than you would think, in cats, and that's

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HCM hypertrophic cardiomipathy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very good, hypert it's a mouthful, I know. Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Unfortunately,

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you're right, affects a lot of cats. About one in

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seven cats has the disease. And what's really been kind

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of said and frustrating for veterinarians is this disease is

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known as the silent killer in you know, our feline patients,

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and it's because the cats don't present with anything wrong

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with them until the disease is so far progressed that

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the cats are actually having pretty serious side effects and

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so getting the cat seen and looked at early on

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is so important.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what would you say as to why this is

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so common in cats, more common than we would imagine.

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Speaker 3: So that's a and there's a couple of different factors

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the disease process. In some of the breeds like rag

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dolls and sphinx and main coon. We know that there

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is a genetic link to the disease process. But we

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also know that there's other populations of our feline kitties

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that something is wrong with their heart muscle, and so

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that heart muscle tends to just start working in a

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really kind of abnormal way. It works too hard, actually,

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and the muscle itself gets pretty stiff and enlarges. And

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when it does that, it causes the left side of

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the heart, the muscle to get thicker. And then when

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it gets thicker, it takes up space in the left ventricle,

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and so it decreases the heart's ability to fill and

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then ultimately pump blood out to the rest of the

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cat's body.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and of course it's heart disease for people. You

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think of heart disease, and yes, there's certain physical, you know,

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features to your body and genetics, but stress and I

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wouldn't associate heart disease with cats because I mean, they're

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the most chill creatures around, right, They sleep like eighteen

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hours a day and they're pretty mallow. So you think

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of heart disease and go, whoa, But it's genetic, So

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would you say it's more genetic than not?

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Speaker 3: We do know right now, as you know, medicine is

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always evolving, right, and so what we've been able to

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tell in those specific breeds there's a genetic component to it,

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and we're in the process of identifying it better so

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that we can diagnose it in these cats as far

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as that genetic component a little bit easier and faster,

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But in the rest of the population it can be

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an abnormality of this the heart muscle itself. And you're

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right is the fact is that because you know kitties,

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they sleep all day, or they're more relaxed, or they

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hide away, and it's harder for them, the pet parents

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to detect if there is something wrong with their kitties,

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which makes it even more complicated with this disease process.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thanks, and you hit on something else and we

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talk about this. I've talked about this pretty frequently on Catitude,

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but it's it's one of those things you can not

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tell cat parents enough. Cats are stoic creatures. I experienced

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this with Dennis when he had crystals in his urine,

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very different to what we're talking about here, but I

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didn't know how bad off he was until he started

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to make this like a like an owl like sound,

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like not like a meal, Like, how can I like

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blown around? It was a weird sound. So he rained,

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but one place wanted to put him down and I said, no,

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we're not doing that, and so I went to the vet.

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It was like Saturday after or Sunday afternoon or something,

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and so then I went to the vet Monday and

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he had to have surgery this whole thing, but I

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wasn't even aware. So what is your view on that?

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Because it's really hard to tell when our cats aren't

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doing well. So what do you use as to pet

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parents Because a lot of times you're like, yeah, they're fine,

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they don't nip to go the doctor. You know, it's

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a seed to that.

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Speaker 3: So one of the easiest things that a pet parent

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can do is well their kitty is sleeping, is to

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count the number of breasts that their kitty is taking

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and to time it. And what we're looking for is

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a normal a cat should breathe while they're sleeping thirty times.

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Let anything less than thirty is a normal resting breath rate.

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And if they do that, then they can kind of

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track whether or not it's abnormal. So if you're a

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kitty is sleeping and you count the number of breasts

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they take in a minute, and if it's greater than thirty,

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then they should definitely take their kiddy into the vat

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and get it looked at. That's something that we have

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learned over the last few years is HCM has become

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more popular as far as getting the genetic tests and

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finding what diagnostics will help confirm the disease. But what

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the pet parent really can do is count the breasts

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while they're sleeping and keep track of it, because those

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are good indications that there might be something going on.

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Speaker 1: That is fantastic stick information. I've never heard that a

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bread test to check their heart. So do you find

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in your experience that there's challenges out there because there's

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so much information with the Internet, and then there's talimed,

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which this is nothing against talamed, but there's so many

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opportunities for pet parents to get wrong information.

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Speaker 3: So do you do?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you see these all the time? I would

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find it if I was a veterinarian pretty discouraging, just

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because people would come in and self Like people self

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diagnose themselves. They're probably doing that for their cats.

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Speaker 3: Right, So sometimes I feel like my work associate is

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doctor Google, and I think that that we have to

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be very careful with that and with this particular disease.

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If a pet parent were to say, notice that their

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cat was breathing greater than thirty breasts per minute, the

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best thing they can do is go into the veterinary

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And we can't stress that enough because that veterinarian. One

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of the other steps that the veterinarian needs to take

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in or to be able to diagnose it, is to

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listen to the kitty's heart. Kitties, like you said, you know,

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are they're very stoic and they're quiet. They're also very

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variable when they go places as far as what kind

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of physical exam findings that they will have, and so

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you really want to get them into the clinic to

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allow that veterinarian to do a couple of things. Number One,

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listen to their heart, and they're going to listen to

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see if there's a heart murmur. This particular disease has

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a particular murmur that's very very common that a veterinarian

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can hear, and so you want to be able to

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hear it. But also the veterinarian needs to get some

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blood work, and that way, there's a lot of things

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that can be checked off the list. I'm sure when

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your kitty was sick they ran blood work on it

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as well, just to double check it. And so getting

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into the clinic to allow a veterinarian to really do

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a very thorough physical exam, to be able to you know,

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start working through some of the diagnostics is important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it seems so. So what happens to you know,

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what can the parent expect if they did the bread test,

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they took their pat too the terinarian and they unfortunately

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get the diagnosis that their cat has HCM. Is it treatable? Livable?

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Is it like, oh, it's It's not the end of

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the world, right, Hopefully their cat can be treated. Do

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they need surgery?

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Speaker 3: So I think right now it is so important, especially

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with the breath tests, knowing about it and advocating for it.

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Is getting the cats into the veterinarian as early as

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possible in this disease process. That way, when the veterinarian

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the cat cut does come in, they can start, you know,

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they can get blood work and evaluate the overall body

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system of the cat. This particular diagnosis sometimes is not

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super straightforward, and so they have to Veterinarians will have

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to rule out other causes that can you know, almost

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act like this disease, and so working through those different diagnostics,

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you know, getting the blood work, taking a chest X ray. Ultimately,

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you know, depending on how it is presenting, getting an echocardiogram,

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which is an ultrasound to the heart is the definitive

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way to be able to diagnose it. And if you've

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diagnosed it early, then it allows the veterinarian to make

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choices as far as medications that can help the cat

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and hopefully you know, facilitate prolonging the disease process and

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intervening there earlier. Unfortunately, you know, because the cats are

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stoic and they're not going to probably relay those clinical

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signs that there is a problem. What's been an issue

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in veterinary medicine is that a pet parent will leave

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for work one day and then when they come home,

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then the kitty is really really sick and they don't

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know why. So really getting in and having those screening

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veterinary appointments where the doctor can get a baseline and

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to get an idea and intervene early as key.

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Speaker 1: Okay, good to Now we're going to take a short

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break and we'll be right.

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Speaker 3: Back, real people, real stories.

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Speaker 5: Our lim dog have helouted this one problem. The chemotherapy

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lasted for six months, started to developing more lymph nose,

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so I thought I'd just try carnivora. The lymph nose

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started to go down. Then I took him into the

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vet to him checked out and then there was no

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signs at all inside.

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Speaker 6: My cat had issues that developed in his height. And

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three months later my ven airing said let's go ahead

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and remove the eye. I heard the carnivor on advertising,

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so I said, you know what, I'm going to order

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this product. They did the procedure, they did all the

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death and they said, I don't know what you did

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this product they had eye.

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Speaker 5: I've got a labrador.

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Speaker 6: You could hardly lift yourself up off the door. The

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treatment was chemotherapy.

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Speaker 5: That's when I said this could be the ticket. About

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three weeks you could tell she was very alert. She

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was going on buy my lock and.

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Speaker 4: She is just like crime again.

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Speaker 1: Well eight six six eight three six eight seven three

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five that's eight six six eight three six eight seven

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three five.

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Speaker 2: Or visit carnivore dot com.

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Speaker 5: That's c A R N I v r A dot com.

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Speaker 2: Use promo code pet Life at checkout for fifteen percent

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off your order at Carnivora dot com.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk past Let's Life Radio Headline Radio.

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Speaker 7: Pet Live Radio dot com.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone. We're talking to doctor Heather about HCM,

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which is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in cats, which is more common

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than you would think, so doctor Heather, So let's say

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we took our cat to that did the testing and

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found out unfortunately the cat has HCM and it was

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caught early enough. What should the pet parent expect to do?

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Is it just treat with medicine. You usually got a

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diagnosis about heart disease and it's shocking.

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Speaker 3: So you're right, it is shocking. And up until recently,

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there wasn't a treatment option for these kiddies. What was

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available for treatment and were products that treated in the

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kitties when they got more sick and the heart disease

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became more aggressive and the kitties were more compromised. And

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recently in the last few months that a product has

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been improved that allows them a veterinarian an opportunity to

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intervene earlier to be able to actually treat it or

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manage the disease process. So that is, veterinary medicine is progressing.

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But again, getting them in there to be screened early

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on allows that opportunity for a product that is designed

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to help manage the disease to have at time to

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be active and not just rely on the disease progression

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and then maintaining the animal's quality of life due to

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a really sad disease.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Let's talk a little about how medication

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is progressing inveterinary medicine. You mentioned that there was a

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newer medication approved for HCM. You know, for people, there's

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a lot of clinical testing trials and all of it.

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How are clinical childs set up for cats? Just kind

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of a basic because I'm curious.

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Speaker 3: Sure, So, I think the first thing that pet parents

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should know is that when a drug product says on

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a carton or on a bottle that it's been approved

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by the FDA, it means that that manufacturer has gone

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through the same rigorous standards to prove both safety and

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efficacy as a human drug does in order to get

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FDA approval. And so some people think that, oh, I

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bet you, animal drugs aren't held to the same standard

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as say, big pharmaceutical or human pharmaceutical companies are held

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to in order to make drugs for humans, and that's

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not true. It's the same rigorous standards, and so companies

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like the company I work for, we're held accountable to

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buy the agency to make sure that the product that

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we develop is not only going to work in the pets,

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but it's going to be absorbed how as support to

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be in order to treat and manage a disease, but

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it's also going to be safe for use. And I

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think that's very, very important for pet parents that when

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you do have a sick animal like kitties that have

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hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and you're going to medicate them, you want

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them to be on a product that you know is

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going to be safe and will help them.

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Speaker 1: Of course, what are your thoughts on alternative medicine for cats?

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Speaker 3: So I think that alternative medicine you mean as far

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as like laser therapy or acupuncture. Is that what you're asking?

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I've had all kinds of things, herbs, smelling herbs,

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even chocolate therapy for cats.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a great question. And I think multimodal

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therapy is always something as practitioners we should consider because

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I say, kitties are very complex animals. There's a lot

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of different things that you know, bringing all aspects of

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treatment I think is important. What I do think though,

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we have to keep in mind is sometimes those herbs

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can interact with traditional medicine. And so if your pet

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parent is administering an herb to a kitty for treatment,

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for that multimodal therapy, it's so important to let your

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veterinarian know that you are administering that because they can

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do a search and make sure that there's not going

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to be any interactions because even if it is an herb,

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sometimes they can alter how other products are absorbed. And

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so just letting them know, hey, this is part of

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my at home treatment plan, so that the vets can

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double check that it's not going to negatively impact a

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traditional medicine.

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Speaker 1: That's a great answer. And I was thinking of something

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that's very popular these days is CBD oil for pets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think with CBD oil, as with anything,

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we always have to be really careful because if products

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that are not manufactured in facilities or that are compounded,

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they're not held to the same standard as products that

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are regulated by the FDA. You know drug companies like

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the company I work for, Human drug for companies or

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people that manufacture out of facilities that are regulated by

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an agency. It means that that agency comes in and

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regularly and they checked your work. They make sure that

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there's nothing harmful that's in your product, that you have

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tests that are in place that make sure that nothing

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harmful is getting into the products that are being administered

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to any of the animals. But also to make sure

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that when you pick up a tablet or you pick

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up an oil, that when you look at the label

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and it says in each drop of oil or in

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each tablet, there's this much product, be it a drug

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or an oil, that there is actually that much product available.

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Because you know, when your animal is sick, you want

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to make sure that the medication, be it herbal supplements

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or if it's a drugs, that it is that you

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are administering the amount that is supposed to be there

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and without being held to standards. It's just it's hard

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for hard to say that that's that's true. And when

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your pet is as a bad disease such as HCM,

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you don't want to take that chance.

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Speaker 1: Right misdiagnosed or miss calculating dosage. Yeah, exactly so with

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the HCM. So let's say you know your cat's diagnosed.

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It's not the end of the world. It was caught early,

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your cat can go on medication. What is the life

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of the cat after the diagnosis? I'm treated? So how

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does the life change?

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Speaker 3: I wish I had a better answer for you. Each

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cat is dependent on itself as far as number one,

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when in its disease process was it diagnosed. The earlier

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you can catch it and intervene, the better, But that

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how aggressively that disease progresses is each cat's own journey.

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And unfortunately, now that we know what to look for

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and we know what to be on on guard for

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and what to evaluate, it will help us, as it

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veterinary medicine, to be able to give you a better answer.

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But unfortunately, right now all we can say is that

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early intervention, early screening is one of the best things

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that you can do as far as to hopefully slow

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that progress. But that cat's own body is going to

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determine the rate in which that disease gets.

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Speaker 1: Worse, right, And no, two cats are like no.

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Speaker 3: Two cats are like no.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, doctor Heather, what would you tell our listening

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audience as far as how they should be proactive and

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taking care of their cats, help and watching medications and

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so forth.

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Speaker 3: So I think in reference to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, what I

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would recommend her listeners would be the next time your

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kiddies asleep on your lap, is set a timer. Check

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it's a sleeping breath rate, and what you want to

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see is anything less than thirty. If it's over thirty.

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The next morning is ring your veterinarian, give them a call,

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let them know that you want to get them into

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the office and have them screened and have a good

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physical exam going on. And I think the other thing

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that I would say is when your kiddies are sick

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and if there is a problem, if it's heart disease

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or not, is so important to be aware as far

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as what you're giving them. Communicate with you or veterinarian.

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If you're using multimodel therapy. But when you're buying products

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and you're using it using products that are FDA approved

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and come from manufacturers that are held to the standards

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that are required in order to get drugs approved, is

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really very very important for the safety and efficacy of

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the product and your animal doctor.

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Speaker 1: Heather, thank you so much. You've given us some great

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information on HCM. So here's something I'd like to ask,

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as you know you're practicing veterinarian, what are some of

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your peeves when you are in the office. This is

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your chance to vent that drive you crazy that pet

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parents do.

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Speaker 3: I guess the doctor google thing is probably I think

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most veterinarians would probably answer that because we always brace

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for impact when pet parents say that, but we know

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it's the reality. Right. We live in a digital age

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where everybody is googling, and I guess what I would

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always say is, you know, if you're googling something and

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you're trying to diagnose something on your own, you know

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you want to make sure it's a reliable source, but

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just don't go with the first thing that comes up

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on that engine search. And if you have questions, take

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them to your veterinarians. Yes, that we might cringe a

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little bit when you say that, but I would much

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rather you ask me the question then, or go on

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your own and we can work through a problem together.

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And I think across the board, most veterinarians would say

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that is I'd rather you ask, but I do cringe

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a little bit because it means that you've done probably

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a lot of hard investigative work and I'm going to

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have to probably change that narrative a little bit potentially.

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But then there's other ones that come in with great sources.

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So that's probably my biggest pet peeve is.

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Speaker 1: That, okay, anything in particular other than that that pet

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parents do that you're just like, oh geez, Because I

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wonder from the veterinary point of view, if you ever

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go and you know, see new patient or someone's coming

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in and you're like, oh, I cannot believe this.

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Speaker 3: So this is gonna sound funny. And this is probably

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more relevant for dog owners because I don't think most

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cat owners probably do this, but giving your dog a

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bath and bringing it into the clinic wet and because

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then I smell like your wet dog the rest of

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the day, and so I know that's, like I said,

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that's probably not relevant to your listening audience, but it's okay.

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If your puppy is dirty and they've been playing, that

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means that they're living a full life. And I would

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much rather, you know, dust off some hair than be

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wet and sticky and things like that. So that, like said,

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that's probably not relevant to you.

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Speaker 1: It's true, but it's kind of like you know, yes,

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you want to take your shower yourself before you go

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to the doctor because you're probably gonna wearing a paper nightgown.

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Not the same for your doggie, so or just let

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them be all right, but dog the Heather, I want

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to thank you so much for coming on catching I'm

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telling us about HCM.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much Michelle for having me. I very

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much enjoyed this.

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Speaker 1: Need too, and I learned a lot. I hope you

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all enjoyed the show. I sure did. I want to

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thank doctor Heather Davis for giving us such great information

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about feline HCM. I'd also like to thank the listeners

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of Catitude. Thank you so much for your loyalty all

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these years. I greatly appreciate it. Thanks to my cat crew,

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who I will be listening to your breath while you're

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sleeping now to try the breath test. So thank you guys, Dennis,

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Charlotte and Mollie for me in the great counts you are.

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And of course thank you to my amazing producer for

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doing such a great job. And making all the shows,

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especially mine, so wonderful. Thank you Mark. You guys have

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no idea what a great editor he is. He's fabulous,

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so thank you so much for all your work. Mark,

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and hey, remember lose the attitude, have tatitude.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk pets every week on demand only on Petlifradio

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dot com.

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Speaker 3: Don't know

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Speaker 6: A