1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Adventures in Anglar, the podcast where we 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,039 keep you updated on all things Angular related. This show 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,160 is produced by two companies, Top and Devs and Onvoid. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,480 Top anddves is where we great Top and Devs to 5 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:20,039 get top and pay and recognition. We're working on interesting 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,839 problems and making meaningful community contributions. And Onvoid provides remote 7 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:29,079 design and software development services on the most client friendly 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,640 business model. The clients only pay after the tests are 9 00:00:32,679 --> 00:00:37,560 delivered and approved. In today's episode, we will talk about 10 00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:41,719 what is new in Angular eighteen and we will also 11 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:44,799 just briefly mentioned because we don't really have a lot 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,679 of debt about it yet. We're also going to mention 13 00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:52,000 a bit about Angular eighteen point one. My name is 14 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:54,960 Lucas Paganini. Your hosts in the podcast. Joining me in 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,000 today's episode are the also hosts Arman Vardenian. 16 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, Finally back to the podcast. 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: Subrad Mischa, Hey, Hey, and our very special guest, which 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,120 according to her is not that much just a Google developer, 19 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:24,079 expert in Angler and a software freelancer, Rakia Ben Sassy. 20 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 3: Hi everyone, and thanks for having me. Maybe you I 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:35,239 said just because my early background was actually I was 22 00:01:36,439 --> 00:01:39,879 at the beginning of my career Java developer and after 23 00:01:41,159 --> 00:01:44,400 over a decade I became a JdE, which was not 24 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:50,519 the main maybe expectees or main focus in my career. 25 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: But thanks anyway, never is, never is. 26 00:01:55,239 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for your time, thank you for being here, 27 00:01:58,079 --> 00:02:04,159 and well let's get to it. So there are many 28 00:02:04,519 --> 00:02:10,800 things that were released on Anglar version eighteen, but I 29 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,840 would like to know, Rakia, from your point of view, 30 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,400 what are the most relevant ones and then we can 31 00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:18,080 start from there. 32 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 4: So for me, maybe not. In the it was. 33 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,159 Speaker 3: Sance a while the featured the failable and they was 34 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,199 very happy to see that it has reached a more 35 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,960 stable face in the VAGIN eighteen and it was also 36 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,000 amazing how companies like built dot com have reached an 37 00:02:42,039 --> 00:02:42,800 improvement in. 38 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 4: The bundle size. 39 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: With fifty percent thanks to the to using this feature 40 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,000 the failible. Besides this, I'm also excited about the improvement 41 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,120 toward the use of the development of zone less angle 42 00:03:03,319 --> 00:03:11,960 application and which will be hopefully with the use of signal, 43 00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:16,120 will let us avoid a lot of struggle with the 44 00:03:16,199 --> 00:03:22,360 change detection, especially when the applications goes more complicated. 45 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, okay, So a couple of very interesting subjects 46 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:34,120 if if that's okay with you guys, I would rather 47 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,159 start with zoneless because I think there's a lot of 48 00:03:37,319 --> 00:03:38,000 hype in. 49 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: There and it's the start of the show. 50 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, a lot of vipe and a lot of 51 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:49,479 people haven't really tried the new experimental zoneless support yet, 52 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,039 And well, I guess we can first start with what 53 00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:00,080 are the uh, maybe the drawbacks that aren't clear to 54 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,879 to those that want that tries a less Maybe there 55 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:05,840 are things that they don't know that would be problems 56 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:07,280 if they actually did try it. 57 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 3: I think that the change detection topic in general looks 58 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:22,720 like a monster maybe. And also when we need to 59 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,439 go away from zone, we need to get our hands 60 00:04:26,519 --> 00:04:33,319 dirties with the angular conflict for Angular Jason, and yeah, 61 00:04:33,319 --> 00:04:35,800 we need to take care about a lot of things. 62 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,319 Speaker 4: This is just. 63 00:04:38,399 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 3: My my my thought on that topic. And maybe a 64 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,759 lot of developer don't know how how component which are 65 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,319 using on push change detection, how they will be impacted 66 00:04:55,319 --> 00:05:00,360 by this and the other components, and if if they 67 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:04,680 have to migrate everything to signal or not and so on. 68 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:10,160 So I think everyone needs to feel more comfortable and 69 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:19,480 have more confidence before they can start on this issue, 70 00:05:20,959 --> 00:05:25,519 what's your idea about all your thought maybe aman or subad. 71 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 5: I think personally that the community is gonna be sweet 72 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,120 for a while because if you have been developing with 73 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:40,000 Angular for a while and you haven't paid attention to 74 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,439 what change detection is, you. 75 00:05:42,399 --> 00:05:44,439 Speaker 2: Don't really need to optimize it. 76 00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:47,079 Speaker 5: If you don't care, right, you can just build your 77 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,879 software and it will work fine. I guess in the 78 00:05:50,959 --> 00:05:53,839 end of the day, if you don't know about zone 79 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,360 less and one day it's a less become the standard, 80 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,959 then you're gonna hate it because why do I need 81 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:02,839 the application works fine? Why do I need to switch 82 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,839 to the orble signals? Blah blah blah. But if you 83 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:11,000 have been paying attention and you I don't know encounter 84 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,920 like the the hated expression has check changed after it 85 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,600 has been checked error read, and you've been trying to 86 00:06:17,639 --> 00:06:19,240 optimize everything and so on and so. 87 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: On, you probably already took some steps in the. 88 00:06:23,519 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 5: Direction of zoneless, for example using signals right, because switching 89 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:29,160 to signals isn't. 90 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: That hard at the end of the day. 91 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 5: And now if you know that for you, it's gonna 92 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,120 be an exciting feature. So people are again gonna be 93 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,800 splitting in like two different camps. But what I like 94 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:44,759 about the way that the team does it is that 95 00:06:44,519 --> 00:06:48,040 that kind of rolling really slowly with it. Okay, now 96 00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:53,199 we have some experimental support for zoneless. Maybe in the 97 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,879 next release we will get some upgrades. 98 00:06:58,319 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: I don't know. 99 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 5: It also depends on the library, you know, maintainers, because 100 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,800 you know someoneys can break libraries that don't kind of 101 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,600 work with it fine, and there's lots lots. 102 00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: That's consider. 103 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: Well. One expression came to my mind now, So it 104 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,879 was so it was about the on push change detection. 105 00:07:22,199 --> 00:07:26,680 So whenever any developer needs to or think or want 106 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,040 to use the on push change detection, they should be 107 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:33,600 aware of the code design, and they should be aware 108 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,079 of the immutability issue and so on. So I think 109 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,360 that also for me, as any angle like developer, I 110 00:07:42,439 --> 00:07:47,839 need to be aware what should what should I take 111 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,560 care of on my applications code design when I have. 112 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 4: To use zones? 113 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 3: What should they change in my code design? Should they act? 114 00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:01,360 So that's it's about the code design and how much 115 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,319 should I reflect in my application. 116 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing like this 117 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,160 joone less will for focus like people will focus more 118 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:16,959 who already have on pushing detection strategy on or maybe 119 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,160 maybe if they care a lot about how it how 120 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,680 to change detection works and they will like be eagerly 121 00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:27,439 waiting for this change to go full on. Maybe they 122 00:08:27,439 --> 00:08:31,600 are doing some experimentation in their deb environment with the 123 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,759 experimental feature. Yeah, at the end, I think how ANGELA 124 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,240 might goes is as it backward compatible. It's just like 125 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,600 when everything goes onless. It just works, so you don't 126 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:48,320 need to worry much about how the jone lists how 127 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:52,919 to handle it. But yeah, if you're doing on post, 128 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,000 then you are in a good direction. 129 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: Well if you are like uh, thinking about it. 130 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 5: Actually, just migrating to some one lists is quite simple 131 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,840 in the sense that you just you know, you say, 132 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,320 it provides a lie education, removes zones, and it's. 133 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:11,879 Speaker 2: Kind of fine. 134 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:19,919 Speaker 5: If you have already using the on push strategy, you 135 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,159 also probably will be fine. But the thing is, we 136 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,519 don't really know the symptoms of this disease yet because 137 00:09:25,799 --> 00:09:30,159 when people have tried it experimentally, obviously no one uses 138 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:35,519 this on a production application to really know where they can. 139 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,759 Speaker 2: Have bugs or whatever. 140 00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:40,759 Speaker 5: Like I have a personal website I build with with anger, 141 00:09:40,879 --> 00:09:43,759 I put like experimental zone lists on it, but it's 142 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:46,039 really irrelevant apps. 143 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: Like it's not doing anything complex, right, And. 144 00:09:51,919 --> 00:09:55,159 Speaker 5: That's why it's kind of hard to create content about 145 00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:57,600 z on list right now, because what are you gonna 146 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,440 say about it. Okay, use this function and remove zone 147 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:06,360 just from not one whatever, and then you're like, Okay, 148 00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:10,200 it's experimental, don't try it, and then it's over. What 149 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,440 I would really love to discuss is what's kind of 150 00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:17,200 going on internally, what we know about it, because the 151 00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:20,799 people on the team were like very vocal about it. 152 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,559 They even shared like the roadmap, right, I think I 153 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:27,759 can pull up road map from on somewhere. I'm not 154 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,000 sure though that I can find it. 155 00:10:29,879 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think what you guys said about 156 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,120 libraries is probably the main thing that I don't think 157 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,240 people are realizing. It's not just a matter of oh, 158 00:10:42,279 --> 00:10:44,639 I'm starting a new project, so I'm gonna go zoneless 159 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,600 because then I can just start zoneless from the from 160 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,399 the geck go. But are the libraries the head that 161 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:56,600 you want to use in your project also supporting zoneless, 162 00:10:56,799 --> 00:11:01,879 because otherwise it's just not going to work. So it's 163 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,960 it's tricky, you know, because at the at one hand, 164 00:11:06,279 --> 00:11:09,320 you want to start using it, at. 165 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 7: Least I do, but. 166 00:11:13,159 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: There are just so many other pieces that just don't 167 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:23,639 feel stable enough yet that I'm not even sure if 168 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,279 if it makes sense to use it at all, Like 169 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,720 unless you're a library author and you're just you want 170 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,919 to make your code work with that new standard, then sure, 171 00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:40,399 But for people that are writing applications, I'm not sure 172 00:11:40,759 --> 00:11:43,480 if it's the right time for that. 173 00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely, you put to the table avery important point. It's 174 00:11:51,159 --> 00:11:54,440 just like when upgrading it's i'll tell you one of 175 00:11:54,519 --> 00:12:00,639 the hood when well, some projects didn't upgrade to higher 176 00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:04,080 Angular versions because they use a lot of library that 177 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,639 are not ready for the new Angular version. 178 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 4: This is one point and the other points it's not. 179 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 7: Stable. 180 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 3: Some parts are in developer mode. And for me for example, 181 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:25,600 as maybe poor or someone who has the decision to 182 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,559 add new features to the backlog and to the to 183 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,679 the planning of our experience, I need to be aware 184 00:12:34,799 --> 00:12:38,440 of the business value. It's not when I have a 185 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,159 lot of other features and so on. 186 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 4: What can I win from it? 187 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,799 Speaker 3: And can I give it a higher priority so that 188 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,639 my developers will spend more time with it, or it's 189 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:50,960 not the right time for it. 190 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,919 Speaker 1: And also If you look at the official blog post 191 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,840 when Angular EIGHTEAM was released, it was written by Minko. 192 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:07,639 And when it comes to defining too to announcing right 193 00:13:07,759 --> 00:13:13,240 the new experimental change detection, one thing that he mentions 194 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:21,000 is improving composability for micro front ends and interoperability with 195 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:27,120 other frameworks. I think that's really interesting, Like what does 196 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,879 he mean by interoperability with other frameworks? How does zoneless 197 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:39,240 make Angular more inter interoperable with react or view or whatever, 198 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:42,360 and even for micro front and front ends for that matter. 199 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 4: Very good question wants. 200 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 7: Answer I have. I have a small opinion because outside 201 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:56,399 library and. 202 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 6: Then having other places, if you're combining that with for 203 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:02,799 any micro front ten and you need to have the. 204 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,519 Speaker 7: Running in your in your bunt. 205 00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 6: Maybe if you're doing subside or our client side, then 206 00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:14,639 you were removing the jone and having having the signals 207 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,600 we change the text and everything reduced wait from the 208 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:23,559 from the micro service. Like first of all, if you're 209 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:27,519 using the micro service one was with react ones. 210 00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:31,399 Speaker 1: But yeah. 211 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: And yes maybe maybe. 212 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: Super I'm sorry, but your audio in the middle started 213 00:14:44,679 --> 00:14:48,799 to get weird, Like you was sometimes really really good 214 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:51,360 and sometimes I couldn't hear you. 215 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: Okay, good. 216 00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 5: Now it is. 217 00:14:57,919 --> 00:15:00,799 Speaker 1: It still seems like it's oscillating a bit, but it 218 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,559 is good at this particular moment. 219 00:15:04,519 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, So what I was saying is as the bundle, 220 00:15:07,919 --> 00:15:11,639 so you don't just will be removed from the bundle. 221 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,399 So now you have less load on an overall application. 222 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:20,600 Maybe it's sub side outline sight and then that that's 223 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:23,919 how you you can combin you React and Angular and 224 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:26,399 run together in. 225 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 7: The project at a single single a single host. 226 00:15:30,799 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: Oh so it's just a matter of lass of lass polyphils. 227 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,559 Speaker 2: On one point. 228 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 6: One of the points. 229 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 5: I can have the bigger point to this because I 230 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,879 worked with Angular elements. 231 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: Everyone knows that. Yeah, and. 232 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 5: You know when you put it in another application, everything 233 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,159 in your custom element is wrapped inside zone JS. 234 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,159 Speaker 2: Only your top level. 235 00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 5: Components is kind of allowed to emit events or receive 236 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,759 attributes from the top down and so on, and it's 237 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,840 really hard to interact with that stuff. You also, because 238 00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:21,360 of zone jays, you also get poly filled a think 239 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,000 weight and aside the bundle issue, that actually means that 240 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:31,399 you have two different ways of how your fetch requests work. 241 00:16:32,039 --> 00:16:36,559 Right if you are using acinkaweight in your Angular components, 242 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,679 which I personally think you shouldn't you should stick to 243 00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:43,600 observables and so on. But again it's framework. It supports 244 00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,960 you writing a think weight and if you do that 245 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:53,879 you can get problems if you're using service workers for example. Right, 246 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,759 So there are two more issues, like the issue with 247 00:16:57,879 --> 00:17:01,360 web components. You can't just treat them as HTML elements 248 00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:03,960 because they're wrapped inside zone jes and there are lots 249 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,160 of stuff going on and and that's an issue because 250 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,200 it's kind of marketed as well the customers Tamil element, 251 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,920 but not really when you built it with Angular. 252 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: And the other one is this zone patching. 253 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,079 Speaker 5: There is a bunch of stuff, you know, going on, 254 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,279 and it can really mess up when you sort of 255 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,519 combine it with the other technology is working on the 256 00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:28,000 same page. 257 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,279 Speaker 2: Like I don't have to go far. You can have 258 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,559 jquerry on your page. 259 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,079 Speaker 5: You know, like eighty percent of the web still has 260 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,440 jquerry And if you build let's say a visible component 261 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:40,960 and put there with Angular zone is can probably mess 262 00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:44,640 up if you use like jQuery plugins that work with 263 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,240 azing stuff because there. 264 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,799 Speaker 2: Are a bunch of plugs. You have no idea where 265 00:17:49,799 --> 00:17:50,559 you're components. 266 00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:54,839 Speaker 5: Beings is kind of a big wrapper that isn't part 267 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,319 of the framework, and it sort of is a barrier 268 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,119 for the outside the world. So also keep in mind, 269 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,920 you know, you will get way more awesome error messages 270 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:07,480 if anything goes wrong. 271 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 2: But they improved it for pits. 272 00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 5: With zone, but still there's only just as so much 273 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,559 as you can do about it without zone it will 274 00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:19,319 be just for a clear stake of what happened and 275 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,079 what did. 276 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,599 Speaker 2: Happen got ya. 277 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a matter of how scoped 278 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:28,759 can a component be, And with zone JS it can't 279 00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:32,599 be very scope because zone js itself patches a lot 280 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:38,119 of global objects, right, so if you rely on it, 281 00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:41,559 even if you're using Angular elements and creating a microfront 282 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,920 and you're still patching a lot of global elements. So 283 00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:48,119 if you go on zoleless then you don't have that. 284 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:49,519 That's interesting good point. 285 00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 5: If you bring an Angular component into some other application, 286 00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:57,759 you are bringing stuff that is interfering with the window. 287 00:18:57,839 --> 00:18:59,680 Of course, use the symbols and stuff and so on, 288 00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:05,599 but still like your set time out calls are getting patched, okay, 289 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,759 because it listens to racing events like. 290 00:19:08,839 --> 00:19:12,319 Speaker 2: That, you know, performed change detention and so on and yep, 291 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,319 you know, is it a very good idea. 292 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 3: I think it's an interesting point. I have actually walked 293 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,279 in the past with microphone tents. 294 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:28,519 Speaker 4: We had also so a communication between those microphone tents, 295 00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:31,839 and we had the global state of global stock for 296 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,359 all of them. But honestly, I don't remember any problem 297 00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:38,799 that I have seen and that I can say, oh, 298 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,799 that problem could be solved now with the. 299 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 3: Zone less so we had at the time and g 300 00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:55,240 excess as a state management library. But yeah, maybe it 301 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,720 depends from from app to app and from which features 302 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:07,279 are they. But maybe this intego bullet and the probability 303 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,559 issue could be maybe better explained with concrete examples that 304 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,680 we can show. 305 00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 4: So this is the problem and how it will be 306 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:17,559 sort of. 307 00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 2: Trust me, no one has ever had that issue. We 308 00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:23,759 just like to pretend in the kid. 309 00:20:24,599 --> 00:20:30,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, because obviously there is hypothetically an issue that can 310 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,680 arise with all those records. But for starters, not very 311 00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:40,000 many people do micro frontas at all, and not very 312 00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:41,480 many people do microphones as were. 313 00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: Angular, So it's just a good improvement. It's just not 314 00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:47,279 the main selling point. 315 00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 5: I would sayless, it's great for a bunch of other 316 00:20:50,839 --> 00:20:54,559 stuff and microfonts is just yeah, okay, if you had 317 00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:57,839 any problems there, you probably don't have them now, Okay. 318 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:04,079 Speaker 3: That's like maybe as a problem that we see often 319 00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:08,839 is that when when you change are not detected, you 320 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,680 you try this CD change detection reference and so on, 321 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:20,240 and you try a lot of workarounds and maybe a 322 00:21:20,319 --> 00:21:24,039 bit of deity ways, and you feel that it's very 323 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,559 hard to detect the change and you have no clue 324 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:34,480 why it's not detected though, although you have already considered 325 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,559 the immutability issue and so on. I don't know if 326 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,559 this is one of the main issues that could be 327 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,640 solved with zones. 328 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 6: I think it will be solved with signal introducing signal, 329 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:50,640 because I think when people started using signal and on 330 00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:54,319 push the kind of no need to. 331 00:21:56,039 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 7: About you just reference and all. 332 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:05,839 Speaker 6: So I think combinedly, slowly, when we'll have the un 333 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,559 less release with if you see like three four release 334 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,200 back from sixteen small features and combinedly it will help 335 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,359 a lot in the future. 336 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,319 Speaker 2: Actually sorry, but I really would love to at the 337 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,000 point that this new change detection is actually already in. 338 00:22:24,079 --> 00:22:28,039 Speaker 5: The framework and it's kind of stable and it just 339 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,160 works now in parallel with zone. Okay, so now if 340 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,920 you update signals, well, updating a signal is a synchronous action, right, 341 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,240 and in Angular with Zone, we know that the updates 342 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,759 the UI only happened with a thing stuff right, so 343 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,559 set time out, I don't know, promises results and so. 344 00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:51,440 But now you have signals which update synchronously, and with 345 00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:54,680 this new change, detention is already baked in version eighteen. 346 00:22:55,759 --> 00:22:59,480 It will update the UI independent from zone JS. Okay, 347 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,640 you can just end to provide zoneless whatever to say. 348 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,559 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't. It's a less at all for no scenarios. 349 00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 5: Potentially, if you are only using signals, like if you 350 00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,359 begin a new application and you say to yourself, okay, 351 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,640 I'm just gonna use signals everywhere, then you probably should 352 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:23,480 be fine because detecting if a signal has changed. 353 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:25,559 Speaker 2: Is the way. 354 00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 5: Simpler tasks, right than patching APIs listening to them, listening 355 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,960 to some application rev teg blah blah blah whatever we 356 00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:38,079 have with Zone Now, signals are part of Angular, so 357 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,519 they can easily notify that, okay, my value has changed 358 00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:45,599 if you have to updated. I think I don't remember 359 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,039 who was it on Twitter? But it was really shortened 360 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:53,359 beautiful explanation. Now, with signals and zoneless, you can think 361 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,960 of the template as being wrapped in an effect of 362 00:23:58,079 --> 00:24:01,559 a signal, and it kind of makes sense. 363 00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 2: Signals would just like with the. 364 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 5: Effect, signals will say, okay, I've changed update this part 365 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:10,200 of the UHY. And so of course classical change detection 366 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,160 will just continue to work as it used to. It 367 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,720 will just become granular change detection. Yourself is not changing that. 368 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,000 That's not important for us onsors. The scheduling of change 369 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:20,960 detection is changing. 370 00:24:24,519 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: Yep, good point. All right, let's move on to some 371 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,119 of the other stuff that we had on Angular eighteen. 372 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:40,920 So besides zoneless, what else that is interesting there is 373 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:42,640 to talk about? 374 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 4: I think the content. 375 00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a nice feature actually, especially when we have 376 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,359 some shaped content and it allows me, for example, to 377 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,960 avoid some doub gated code and also to have some 378 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,880 maybe to deliver some content for some some some hosting 379 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,359 component out of the book that they don't need to 380 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,759 push it to. 381 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:16,839 Speaker 4: Deliver it. 382 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: Yes, that is that is very interesting. It's a it's 383 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,880 a nice quality of life improvement. It's it's doable in 384 00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:31,240 previous versions of Angler, but it's just ugly, like I 385 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,400 have this little snippet of code that you create a 386 00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:39,799 wrapper element around the empty space and then you check 387 00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:43,240 if the inner ATML is empty or not. It's like 388 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,440 you look at it and you think, I don't really 389 00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:50,680 want to write that, but that is actually the safest 390 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,319 way to do this operation. So it's good that now 391 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,359 we can have default fallback content for for energy content. 392 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,559 There's a lot of other things that were experimental or 393 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:08,240 not experimental, but developer preview and became stable. But I 394 00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:12,039 think the other major thing was actually server side rendering 395 00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:17,319 updates and updates to hydration, event replay. There was a 396 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,960 lot of things around that area. 397 00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:26,279 Speaker 5: I really love, say, seeing the updates to service side rendering, 398 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,559 and I don't care for them in the sense that 399 00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:33,359 I've never actually developed a service side rendering app. We 400 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:36,359 have like enterprise projects and none of the clients care 401 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,640 about you know, loading times, LCP and. 402 00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 2: All of that stuff. 403 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:44,319 Speaker 5: But I hate React and I hated that they were 404 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,880 so ahead on the server side story. 405 00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:49,559 Speaker 2: And at least now we're kind of getting back. 406 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 5: Also, it works kind of fine, although I have encoverned 407 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,480 problems with hydration when I tried a bunch of stuff 408 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,759 on my personal side project, and but but but it's 409 00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:06,000 so very good. It's so very good, and improvements are nice. 410 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:07,400 I love even to play. 411 00:27:09,599 --> 00:27:14,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great uh, A good step toward the 412 00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:19,359 interactivity and improvement for the user experience and also avoiding 413 00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:23,359 that the user will feel a bit blocked. Everything is 414 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:27,599 ready on the on the UI, which could be frustrating 415 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:29,559 or will lead. 416 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,319 Speaker 4: Maybe to lose some. 417 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:39,519 Speaker 3: Some business value, especially for very big applications. Maybe even 418 00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:43,279 if they are not handed they are not server side handled, 419 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,079 but maybe they use the high bugget approach with the 420 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,359 mix between s S and the cs A, they could 421 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,400 also benefit from this new feature. 422 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 5: It's also a step towards resumeability in the future and 423 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:09,119 the partial iteration too, which is something they I think. 424 00:28:09,319 --> 00:28:14,599 We had another episode with Jess k Yanuk if I 425 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,920 remember correctly, and she was working on the partial liberation 426 00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:23,319 story right, and there were lots of great promises and 427 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,519 it's nice to see them, you know, roll out all 428 00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:28,680 of that stuff really exciting. 429 00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, a lot of things in there. I have 430 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:38,000 actually built a service side render website which was my 431 00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:42,279 own website actually because it was a blog and I 432 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,720 wanted a good SEO. Then I did service side rendering 433 00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:51,799 on it. And what I think I mentioned this once 434 00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:53,519 in the past, but it's not something that I talk 435 00:28:53,559 --> 00:28:57,240 about a lot, is when I did service side rendering 436 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,079 was on Angular version. 437 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:01,759 Speaker 7: Four or five. 438 00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:05,559 Speaker 1: I think the first time that I looked Yeah, yeah, 439 00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:11,079 it was very in the early stages. It wasn't even 440 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,799 called like SSR. It was just Angler universal and the 441 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,759 dogs were just an existent. 442 00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:21,119 Speaker 2: It was so tough. 443 00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: I remember that when I got this right, and as 444 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,240 soon as I got it right, it started popping up 445 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,680 more articles about how to do it, and part of 446 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,400 me was just thinking, Ah, when I did, it was 447 00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:42,839 so much harder. But it's also good. You know that 448 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,480 the community has evolved so much. It was so painful 449 00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:50,000 at that time to do anything with service side rendering. 450 00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:52,480 And I said Angler four or five, but I'm not 451 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,240 entirely sure if that was it. Maybe it was Angler six. 452 00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:58,200 I just know that it was very very early stages 453 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,559 and there was no doc mentation whatsoever about it. I 454 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,000 remember that was even a person writing a book about it, 455 00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:10,880 but the book never got completed, and I was like 456 00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:14,240 closely watching and waiting for the book to be ready, 457 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,079 and I was able to do it, and the book 458 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,759 was still not already, But yeah, those were the early 459 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,519 stages and we're in a so much better position nowadays. 460 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,279 The fact that you can just do an engine you 461 00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:32,640 and the CLI asks you if you want to do SSR, 462 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,119 that's huge, you know. That really does make it easier 463 00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:41,559 for anyone starting a project to use SSR. Also, some 464 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:48,079 meta frameworks like analog. Yes, Analog makes it very very easy. 465 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,039 I haven't really used Analog myself, so I can't speak 466 00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:57,200 too much about the developer experience, but I have read 467 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,400 their dogs and I know that's one of the points 468 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,119 that they address. 469 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 6: So yeah, I think the yes, Sorry please, I was 470 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,480 saying with server side rendering, with the pre rendering as well, 471 00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:15,559 like the SSC, I think the combining, as you said before, 472 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,559 like combining both, uh makes sense for a lot of 473 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,640 development maybe, but I think I was just remembering my 474 00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:31,640 current workflow. We're using Lacto for server side rendering, but 475 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,920 still like for a micro funtained point of view, it 476 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:40,440 makes sense to to make a lot of sense to 477 00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:45,039 make server side rendering then for enterprise application. Mostly for 478 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,720 the enterprise application you have enterprise user who has quite 479 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,400 fast Internet and also the scope of the application will 480 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,440 be smaller. So so maybe it's better to go with 481 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,920 clients set rendering and with maybe some some preloading stuff. 482 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 3: I find the hybrid approach also very interesting because maybe 483 00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:11,920 at the beginning we when we think about s SA, 484 00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:13,640 we think about static websites. 485 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 4: But the hybrid approach. 486 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:21,119 Speaker 3: Will is a new will give a new chance maybe 487 00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:25,519 or an opportunity for enti rise applications to use also 488 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,000 s S. But we need to decide which parts where 489 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,599 there is for example, no dynamic or real time change 490 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,960 in the dome and so on, those parts could be 491 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,480 sell side grander and the other paths so we'll be 492 00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,640 client side grander. And which will be a plus or 493 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,359 an improvement for big scale or large scale applications. 494 00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:55,039 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think as we all here, one thing just 495 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,119 popped to my mind, like maybe maybe it's an off topic, 496 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,279 but how support someone is starting a new application, how 497 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,880 they would decide uh they would a side or CLI 498 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,799 inside if the S the se O is not a 499 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,319 big thing for them, any any thoughts? 500 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 4: Is it a question? 501 00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 7: Yeah? 502 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,279 Speaker 3: So for example, for example, let's say that they have 503 00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,240 maybe a big ecomers application and they have for example, 504 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,480 one of my pages are frequent asked questions. This page 505 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,279 is a kind of static page I can use as 506 00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:42,359 a se for this kind of question or for privacy. 507 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,720 And I don't know such informations for the users, but 508 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,039 let's say that they have some other views. For example, 509 00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:54,799 I have worked once in an application where we had 510 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,920 an editor and the and the applications where the users 511 00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:09,400 could dissect a message so they can select some parts 512 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,559 of the message and extract them as the fields, and 513 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:18,599 we were actually generating dom elements in depending on the 514 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,880 user interactions. For such kind of features, I cannot use 515 00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:26,079 because the dome will be changed in real time and 516 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,599 it will depend on the user interactions. That's why I 517 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:36,199 need to be more careful which pages which I am 518 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,599 sure they will stay as they no matter how the 519 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,760 user interacted with them, and which parts will be changed 520 00:34:46,519 --> 00:34:50,360 like for example, I don't know, shopping card, it will 521 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:59,039 definitely change and show new items and so on or Yeah, 522 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:06,440 this is just a simplification for how to differentiate between 523 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,159 what is more oriented to as a small audiences. 524 00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 5: I think one maybe a rule of sumbook be Obviously, 525 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:20,239 this is a business question. If you're building building a 526 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,039 big I don't know, collection of blogs or something, or 527 00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:27,519 a big platform that people use like social media. 528 00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,559 Speaker 2: Obviously you need SSR so that people can load your 529 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,679 happen as fast as you can. 530 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 5: And of course, on the other side, if you're building 531 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,119 like some I don't know, enterprise grade for instance, we 532 00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:44,119 want to build a dashboard for you know, for months 533 00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:47,360 on the dogs that we're working with some paperwork when 534 00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:51,800 loading stuff on the ship, and this is like their job. 535 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,159 They open this app every day and it's cashed on 536 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,159 their I don't know. They use iPads for instance, to 537 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,719 open that one app, and you don't think think about 538 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:02,639 SSR there. 539 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 2: So if you know your business case is kind of 540 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,119 easy to decide. 541 00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 8: But if you are not sure if at one point 542 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,039 you will have to have like SSR or not, maybe 543 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:16,960 if you're just starting the app, it might be a 544 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,639 good idea to just start with SSR. 545 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,519 Speaker 2: Because mostly you won't have to change a lot in general. 546 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,760 But if you already have a big app, switching to 547 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,159 as SR will probably pick up some problems. 548 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 5: Not that bad obviously, but if you just start in 549 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,480 the SSR, I mean, I don't think it will do 550 00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:38,679 much harm to you. At the end of the day, 551 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,599 you will just develop a round. If you're not doing 552 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,559 like complex dom manipulations. Even if you are doing there 553 00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:48,920 are always like these new functions right after render, after 554 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,119 next lender. You can just rap that stuff. It's always 555 00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:55,480 easier to do that when you're beginning to code instead 556 00:36:55,519 --> 00:37:00,519 of like refactoring it. Still if you're definitely rer app 557 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,000 is just going to be used, you know, like a job, 558 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,199 like an enterprise that then you probably don't need SR 559 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,440 and you will never need sor if that client wants 560 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,199 something you know, public facing, they will probably just want 561 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,840 a new app, not just one page in your enterprise 562 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,920 app puper facing something. 563 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:28,599 Speaker 3: So we need actually to consider the dome change and 564 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,840 the dome structure, how complex is it and the CEO 565 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,519 how important is it for our app? 566 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,599 Speaker 4: And also the how important for us? Is it more 567 00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:41,280 important for. 568 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,079 Speaker 3: Us that the user will see as quickly as possible 569 00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:48,960 something on the page or that they could be interacted 570 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,000 as quickly as possible, Because with SSL, the user can 571 00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:58,079 see something, but they can't interact until everything will be available, 572 00:37:58,599 --> 00:38:02,719 all the javas, gift and or the events and so on. 573 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:09,559 So there is an improvement. The time to introduction is 574 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,960 could be slower than C said, but the low the 575 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,960 they can see something quickly, but they can interact with it. 576 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,719 It depends on the applications and on the which kind 577 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:28,199 of application we are talking about. For some big applications 578 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:35,599 or some companies, even a delay of maybe yeah, five milliseconds, 579 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,400 I don't yeah, or ten milliseconds could cost them something. 580 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,840 For other applications, it's not so bad to have such 581 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,519 a delay or yeah, it's. 582 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 6: Also makes sense, like I was just thinking about for 583 00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:53,679 a new startup they're starting up, because if they're starting 584 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,159 with they need to delude a lot of things which 585 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,119 is not related to angle or maybe then it to 586 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,559 deal with the server, how it's handling, how much traffic 587 00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:06,440 it should help because with the clients and rendering, they 588 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,800 are just serving the file maybe from a cian or something. 589 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,679 Speaker 7: But now you need to do a lot of things 590 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,679 you need to you event loopleaques. 591 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 6: I think a lot of things at that in the 592 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,960 server which you need to we need to know about 593 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:29,400 if your application might get motorfic. Yeah, so those things 594 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,039 we keep in mind, and Doss says, yeah, I think 595 00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:36,000 we can come back to the topic. 596 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:44,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, there are still way too many things 597 00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:47,000 to talk about, and we haven't even touched on eighteen 598 00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:52,440 point one, which was released like hours ago, and just 599 00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:57,840 introduce an entirely new operator. But at the same time, 600 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,920 we time really really flew by, and we're already spoken 601 00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:08,559 for forty minutes before we start wrapping up, I want 602 00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:12,119 to make sure that we cover cases that maybe we 603 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:17,800 didn't talk about that but that might be relevant for Rakia. So, Rakia, 604 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,880 is there anything that we haven't touched on yet? And 605 00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:25,400 perhaps you think that we should like something that is 606 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,119 important enough and we haven't touched So that's kind of 607 00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:31,320 like a catch all question. 608 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:38,679 Speaker 3: Maybe the improvement in the film's API, the new event 609 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,800 subscribe that would so now we can subscribe and touch 610 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,639 events like Westing events, statos event touched event and value 611 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:53,119 change event, which is the kind of more refinement in 612 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,199 the film's API. 613 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: Yes, so that specifically, just to make it clear for 614 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,960 the audience, is is it more than just a new 615 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:08,519 property that was exposed in the form control in the 616 00:41:08,599 --> 00:41:13,639 abstract control or is it because from my understanding that 617 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,599 was it right? It's a new observable that is exposed 618 00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:20,920 and allows you to listen to all sorts of events 619 00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:25,119 that a form that an abstract control can trigger. Is 620 00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:25,599 that correct? 621 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,039 Speaker 5: Yeah? 622 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta be honest, I'm still questioning the value 623 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,000 of it. Like I see this as a very good 624 00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:45,320 quality of life improvement, But I didn't saw that announcement 625 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,800 and thought, okay, let me rewrite that component to use that. 626 00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:53,599 You know, it was just okay, we already have that 627 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,800 because we already have the separated observables, right, so we 628 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:04,360 can listen to the the status changes, and we could 629 00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:10,280 listen to I mean or am I wrong on this? 630 00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:13,840 Like we we already had observables for that, right, they 631 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,119 just weren't unified in a single observable. 632 00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 3: So I think maybe the value of this new improvement 633 00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:29,639 or new observable, it's very well depends on which kind 634 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,039 of components or your I or features we have, because 635 00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:38,239 it will not be relevant the same way for every 636 00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:41,400 farm fields or for every. 637 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 4: Elements. 638 00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 3: So me too, I have I haven't refacted with anything 639 00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:51,639 in my God in order to use this feature. But 640 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,400 in the past I have seen some some or I 641 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,360 have worked with some components with the DOM and the 642 00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:03,360 events are a bit complex, and there were a lot 643 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:09,199 of ticky use the interactions that we should catch, and 644 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,360 so one maybe for such kind of applications, this kind 645 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,920 of uh, observable will be more relevant and it will 646 00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:19,239 have more value. 647 00:43:20,039 --> 00:43:24,119 Speaker 1: It makes sense, makes sense. I actually have not had 648 00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:27,639 such cases so to me, I was still wondering about 649 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,280 what was the big value delivered by that feature. But 650 00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:39,079 that that does make sense with your explanation. Interesting. Cool, okay, 651 00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:42,840 Rman super How about you guys, anything you'd like to 652 00:43:43,039 --> 00:43:44,239 mention before you wrap up? 653 00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:49,159 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think you think much from my say they 654 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,880 have fun. Guys have fun. 655 00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:57,760 Speaker 2: That's yeah, all. 656 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: Right, okay, so let's start wrapping up. Let's just do 657 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,920 a quick round of promos, and well, let's start with 658 00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:11,360 with Armen. So Armen, what have you been up to? 659 00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:13,320 Speaker 7: Oh? 660 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,320 Speaker 5: Well, as much as on the previous episodes, I'm gonna 661 00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:19,840 promote my book Modern Angular. 662 00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:22,159 Speaker 2: I have some updates on it. 663 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 5: Like five months ago, it went into early access so 664 00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:30,159 it could read some of the chapters. Now actually all 665 00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:33,000 of the chapters are available, but it's still not the 666 00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:36,679 final final version of the book. But the book is 667 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,360 in production, is being a copy edited right now. Hopefully 668 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,039 in several weeks it will go into print and that 669 00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:48,280 will be the final release of the book. So, of course, 670 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:53,440 as I'm super excited about it and our today's topic 671 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,480 is actually the reason that the book took a bit 672 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,639 longer because when we we're close to finishing it off, 673 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,239 we realize that in like six weeks the new Angular 674 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,480 version will come out and probably render the book kind 675 00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:16,639 of obsolete on print, and we decided to hold a 676 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,480 bit to wait to see the version finally come out. 677 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,880 So this is actually because of that reason, the most 678 00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:30,440 up to date Angular book right now kind of not 679 00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:33,559 anymore after today because we now have like lead directive 680 00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:36,559 and so on in Angular eighteen point one, but it's 681 00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:38,320 not really the big stuff. 682 00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 2: So the book covers everything that we start. 683 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 5: Getting after IVY essentially, so you have standalone components, how 684 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,239 to migrate to them, you have better argues, support, dependency, 685 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:56,239 injection changes everything, SSR improvements and unit testing, everything that 686 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,239 we have new in the framework. And the book is 687 00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:05,440 following like a project building formats in the sense that 688 00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:08,920 we build an enterprise app with the book, you can 689 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,800 code along and all the features sort of explained in 690 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,360 the chapters are also done in specific formats. 691 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,519 Speaker 2: So first we introduce like a problem that we had. 692 00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 5: Previously, we introduced the solution on a new project and 693 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,800 the one that we're developing, and then all the final 694 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,920 parts of the chapters also have guides on migration, how 695 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,719 you can migrate to send a long components, how it 696 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,000 can migrate to using the inject function, and like the 697 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:40,880 new guards and resolvers and whatever you have and so on. 698 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 2: How it can migrate to SSR. 699 00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 5: So yeah, it's sort of the handbook for anyone who 700 00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:49,719 has not been up to speak with the improvements in 701 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,199 Angular and wants to quickly learn what's doing the framework 702 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,639 and how they can sort of set their projects up 703 00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,239 to use all the modern features. 704 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,519 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's my book. I hope if anyone decides 705 00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:07,400 to buy it that it is help to you. 706 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:13,519 Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, all right, And just what's the name of 707 00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:15,840 it again, just so that people can search for it. 708 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 2: It's called modern Angular. 709 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 1: Essentially, we have okay, Modern Angler by Arman Vardinia. Cool 710 00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:27,880 and well. On my end, I'm just going to promote 711 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,400 the two companies that produce this show, So Top and 712 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,639 Doves produces a lot of other podcasts, not just about Angler, 713 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,679 so if you're interested in that, I'm also actually hosting 714 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:42,159 the React show. I do love Angler more, but I 715 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,360 also know about reacts, so I also host that show, 716 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,960 and there are many others as well, so if you're 717 00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:51,480 interested in other subjects, be sure to check out all 718 00:47:51,519 --> 00:47:54,719 the podcasts available and on top and doves and on Void, 719 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,320 which some people might not know exactly how to type it, 720 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,920 but it's with un so u n Void. And the 721 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,519 difference between onvoid and other software development agencies is that 722 00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:11,840 in general, when you try to hire developers, they always work, 723 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:17,079 they always high, they always charged hourly, and that's not 724 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,679 very client friendly because you never really know how much 725 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,079 is going to take and if there are over times, 726 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,559 you just keep wondering like is this taking longer because 727 00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:30,639 the person is is just taking longer to get paid more, 728 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,159 or is it like really it really makes sense that 729 00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:37,719 it's taken longer. There's always this question and it's just 730 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,840 frustrating for clients. So Onvoid fixes that by agreeing on 731 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,400 the prices per tasth with the clients beforehand, and the 732 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,519 clients only pay after dissts are delivered and approved, so 733 00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:53,079 the clients also can do quality control to make sure 734 00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:56,679 that what is delivered is up to their quality standards 735 00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,840 before it actually becomes available. So it's extremely client friendly 736 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,679 and yeah, so be sure interested in that be sure 737 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,000 to check out you n v o I d on 738 00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:09,800 void dot com. This is going to be my text 739 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,480 for today, Rack. 740 00:49:11,559 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, how about you? 741 00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:15,639 Speaker 4: Okay, thanks for the opportunity. 742 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,760 Speaker 3: First, so I'm actually building the community with my which 743 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,719 was started with my medium blog. 744 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 4: I have reached today. 745 00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:30,360 Speaker 3: One hundred eighty eight articles I think on Medium and 746 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,360 you have also YouTube channel. 747 00:49:32,519 --> 00:49:37,280 Speaker 4: I will invite you guys to join it and subscribe to. 748 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,480 Speaker 1: It, and. 749 00:49:40,039 --> 00:49:44,599 Speaker 3: Maybe for everyone who would like to build the web 750 00:49:44,679 --> 00:49:49,760 performance muscles, I will invite them to join over thirty 751 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,480 one case students and en roll on my udimi video 752 00:49:53,519 --> 00:49:58,400 coals about web perform Master and web performance from noves 753 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:04,159 to Expect and my second m vidals which was published 754 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,000 on April. There are also the over three k students 755 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,639 and he is a bonus for everyone who would like 756 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,960 to get the chance to get those courses for free. 757 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:17,679 Speaker 4: You can join my. 758 00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:24,800 Speaker 3: Newsletter because I check their free access to my video courses. 759 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:30,840 So my newsletter is Rakia Ben Sasi together written without 760 00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:35,880 Rakiah Ben Sasi Ben Sasi dot substack dot com. 761 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,159 Speaker 1: And that's awesome, awesome, thank you, thank you. 762 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:43,320 Speaker 2: How about you? 763 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, I would like to promote my channel is who 764 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,840 is fun of heuristic. So I'm not putting much content now, 765 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,199 but I'm trying to be motivated again and start putting it. 766 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,480 But we have some good content in the past. Please 767 00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:01,079 go tack. 768 00:51:02,159 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, guys, Thank you so much for those 769 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,599 listening to us. Thank you for stacking up until the 770 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,320 end of a great week, and I will see you 771 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:12,000 in the next one.