WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:05.759 This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:32.039 And all the rest of them walked back in there. 3 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:35.759 They never didn't say no more about her. That was 4 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.520 just mad. You could see the anger on her face. 5 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:43.200 Did you ever see her again? Not after that? I 6 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:45.399 don't know what they do. 7 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:46.600 Do you see her the next day? 8 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:47.359 No? 9 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.079 I don't know what they don't for a body. They 10 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:54.320 just told me I wanted if we opened up saying 11 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.520 thing about what we say that they would kill us. 12 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:01.759 I do the same thing those and we we're scared. 13 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:04.040 And I still I'm scared. 14 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:07.040 Where you don't need to you're saying. 15 00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:13.040 Around the time Kelly Wilson disappeared from the piney woods 16 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.280 of East Texas, some country folks in Gilmer got in 17 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:20.319 trouble with the law. The Curs, often referred to as 18 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:23.719 the Kerr Clan. There were a bunch of them, a 19 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.959 big incestuous family living in shacks and trailers and a 20 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.519 kind of run down compound on Cherokee Trace, the same 21 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.040 winding road where search parties would eventually comb the woods 22 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.959 for any sign of Kelly Wilson. The problems for the 23 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.959 Curs started in the fall of nineteen ninety when one 24 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:44.400 of the brothers, this guy Wendell, left his wife Loretta 25 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.000 for a younger woman. Loretta reported Wendell to the authorities, 26 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.879 said he'd been abusing their four kids. The new woman 27 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.239 in Wendell's life, her name was Wanda. She brought her 28 00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:00.280 own baggage. Wanda's brother, Lucas, was a molester too. He'd 29 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.400 abused Wanda's kid from her previous relationship with a guy 30 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.120 named Bad Jimmy. It was a tangled web. A caseworker 31 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.000 from Child Protective Services stepped in. 32 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:19.800 Yes, sir, Hey, my. 33 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:23.840 Name is Wes Ferguson. I'm a journalist. I'm working on 34 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:26.719 a project about the Kelly Wilson case and looking. 35 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:27.439 For Ann Gore. 36 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:28.080 Is that you? 37 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:31.280 That was Anne when I knocked. You'll hear about her 38 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.879 throughout the series. Anne Gore, the caseworker, was a deeply 39 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:38.639 religious woman from Gilmer. The abuse she uncovered was more 40 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:42.599 than alarming. Thanks in part to Anne's efforts, Wendell and 41 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:46.039 Lucas were arrested and they both got ten years probation. 42 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:49.240 Less than a year after that slap on the wrist, 43 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.280 Wendell and his new flame, Wanda got married. Their wedding 44 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.159 took place on the Kerr family compound on Cherokee Trace. 45 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.199 Just days later, CPS filed to remove the kids from 46 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:03.879 the home of the convicted sex offender. In court, Wanda 47 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.599 also admitted that she had abused her own sons from infancy. 48 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:12.759 It was all horrifying. By now, the investigation into the 49 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:16.639 Curs had sprawled throughout the family. Allegations went up to 50 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:21.680 the grandparents, Eugene and Geneva Kerr, a multi generational legacy 51 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.960 of incest and abuse. Some things about the case weren't 52 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.520 just appalling, they were bizarre. One night, Anne took some 53 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:33.000 of the Kirk kids to dinner. They had been singing 54 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.639 and playing games. On the drive back to Gilmer, one 55 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.680 of the young girls became very quiet. 56 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.319 All of a sudden, she got real serious. I want 57 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.800 to know how Anne fields about Jesus. Then she said, 58 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:49.639 do you like Jesus? 59 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.240 This is recreated from an interview and gave in nineteen 60 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:59.159 ninety five with contact an alternative newspaper and declined to 61 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:01.599 speak with me on them. So you're hearing from my 62 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:03.919 friend Beverly reading the voice of Ann. 63 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:08.719 I said, yes, I like Jesus. And she told me 64 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:12.599 she didn't like him, and I asked her why and 65 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:17.040 she said because he sexually abuses the angels. 66 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.800 Anne was shocked. She asked, who in the world told 67 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:22.720 you something like that? 68 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.079 And she said, nobody told me that. I saw him 69 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.680 do it. I was an angel. 70 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:33.199 By now there were more than a dozen Kirk kids 71 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:37.199 and stepkids and foster care. One day, they all went 72 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:41.959 to a birthday party. The children strangely began to chant 73 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:43.399 around the candles on the cake. 74 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:48.160 The youngest one said, the Devil's coming and he got 75 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.199 his fingers all perched up in a claw like form 76 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:55.120 and said he scratched me and he get blood. 77 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.839 Hearing this, now, sure, it's kind of dark, but mostly 78 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.079 it just sounds like silly kids who might have watched 79 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.920 a scary movie or two. This child was only three 80 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:08.399 years old, though by now Anne was highly attuned to 81 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.720 other disturbing things the kids were talking about. As the 82 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:15.399 children kept opening up to Anne and their foster parents, 83 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.079 the stories became more gruesome, more explicit. 84 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:22.560 Eating body parts, drinking blood. 85 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:28.040 Child trafficking, demonic rituals, killing babies in the woods. The 86 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.600 worst crimes were rumored to be happening at the Kerr 87 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:34.920 place off the dark trail of Cherokee. Trace Anne and 88 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:38.439 her caseworker colleague, Debbie Minshew, knew how to handle child 89 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:43.480 abuse claims. Sadly, those were all too common. The Satan stuff, though, 90 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.680 that was beyond their scope. That's when CPS brought in 91 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:51.360 a state cop, Steve Baggs, to take over the kr case. 92 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:55.480 Bags had been involved in some recent investigations of murderous 93 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:58.120 cults and he was about to retire from the Texas 94 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:02.240 Department of Public Safety. Needing backup, Bags turned to a 95 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.759 police chaplain from Louisiana named Brooks Flag, who fashioned himself 96 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:12.600 an expert on Satanic rituals. Bags and Flag the dynamic duo. 97 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.040 They interrogate Wanda's brother, Lucas, who admits to being part 98 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.279 of a group that sacrificed children and babies. To prove 99 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.439 he's telling the truth, Lucas even takes a light detector test. 100 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:30.839 He told several girls that they had kidnapped, tortured, and 101 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:36.199 raped and eventually killed, and he passed the polygraph examined 102 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:37.360 with flying covers. 103 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:40.720 That's Melvin Dodd, a Gilmer school teacher at the time. 104 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:44.639 Melvin would become a key player in the Kelly Wilson saga. 105 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:49.120 You'll hear plenty from Melvin in this episode. During a 106 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.199 search of the Kerk Place, cadaver dogs alerted on a 107 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:54.639 particular shed in the backyard. 108 00:06:54.600 --> 00:07:00.360 And it had shackles in there where you could, you know, 109 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:04.680 like handcuff somebody to the wall, and there were cat 110 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:08.759 and nine tail whips in there and all kinds of 111 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:09.839 satanic stuff. 112 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:14.000 The shed made the local news at. 113 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.720 A storage shed belonging to the Kerr families in the 114 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.680 hands of investigators to night. Police are keeping mom about 115 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:22.000 where the shed is and what they'll do with it, 116 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.560 but forensic experts believe the shed will undergo a battery 117 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:27.399 of extensive tests for evidence. 118 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:30.600 Partial listing of what they found inside and are labeling 119 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.399 as evidence. Inside the shed a pickup truck toolbox also 120 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:37.639 found on the floor and walls of the shed were hair. 121 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:39.800 Hair was also found in a wood rail and rope, 122 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:43.000 and there was a cat of nine tails made of metal. 123 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:51.160 The investigators were closing in building their case. From Imperative Entertainment, 124 00:07:51.560 --> 00:08:13.360 I'm west Ferguson. This is Deviltown. This is chapter three 125 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:18.560 in the woods. Talking to folks in Gilmer, I keep 126 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:23.360 hearing whispers about the Kerr family, about Sergeant Brown. Other 127 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:26.879 prominent names that come up repeatedly, and I'm trying to 128 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.360 check out all of them. Hardly anybody wants to talk 129 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:32.759 on the record, and I can't say I blame them. 130 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.240 But there's an exception, John Melvin Dodd, the retired school teacher. 131 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:40.960 Several Gilmer residents who wouldn't put their own names out 132 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.960 there said I should try him instead, seeing as Melvin 133 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.320 is a charter member of the Justice for Kelly Wilson Committee, 134 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.600 which we'll get to soon enough. So I called Melvin. 135 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:55.000 Here's a man who speaks his mind. 136 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:57.639 I'll tell you what you're taking on project. I hope 137 00:08:57.679 --> 00:09:02.240 he makes some money. We were taking on a monstrous project. 138 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:06.200 I thought about writing a book about myself, but gosh, 139 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.639 I'm never dead, and I'm eighty years old. I'm not 140 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.679 going too now, but I guarantee I'll be very happy 141 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:15.240 to help you, really and truly. We're just kind of 142 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:16.679 scratching the surface. 143 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.720 Back to that shed in the curves backyard. Shackles and whips. 144 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.600 From what I've read, it was more like straps and ropes, 145 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:28.279 some rubber tie downs and insulated electrical wire and that 146 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.720 cat of nine tails, which is a little weird at 147 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.960 any rate. The investigators also discovered a long trail looping 148 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.480 through the woods behind the house, which they saw as 149 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:41.759 some kind of ritualistic footpath, and they thought it might 150 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.879 be home to shallow graves. By now the case had 151 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:49.080 expanded beyond the Kerr family. Wanda's sons claimed that one 152 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:52.039 of the neighbor kids had also been involved in the abuse. 153 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:56.919 This seven year old kid named Raymond. Normally I wouldn't 154 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.879 name a minor victim like this, but Raymond gave the okay. 155 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:03.879 CPS took Raymond and his little brother, who was just 156 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.840 a toddler at the time, and placed them in foster care. 157 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:10.879 Their foster mom was named Barbara Bass. She had a 158 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:12.039 ton of kids in her care. 159 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:18.200 She had been the East Texas Foster Parent of the 160 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:22.919 Year I think the year before, and she had been 161 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:28.519 given custody of Raymond Smith during this and so she 162 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:32.000 and Anne Gore and Debbie Minsh took Raymond to the 163 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:36.600 Dairy Queen And while Raymond is there eating, he casually says, 164 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:39.039 I don't know what happened to Kelly Wilson. 165 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:42.720 Seven year old Raymond claimed the curs had abducted Kelly Wilson, 166 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.639 the local girl that hadn't been seen at this point 167 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:48.559 in a year and a half. And not only that, 168 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:51.480 he said the curs they'd killed her. 169 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.120 That's how all of this started. Raymond Smith told about 170 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:01.240 how they would go out there and the beat Kelly 171 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.679 and a raped her and all this kind of stuff. 172 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:12.000 And there were other kids, mostly girls, who were brought 173 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:15.919 in by the truck drivers in the family, and they 174 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:18.720 would do this to them and kill them. 175 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.559 And Gore and her fellow caseworker, Debbie Minshew shared Raymond's 176 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:25.559 claims with Gilmer police Sergeant James York Brown, who'd been 177 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.799 leading the unrelated so far search for Kelly. 178 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:34.799 James Brown is the policeman who was assigned to investigate. 179 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.600 So they took it to James Brown. Well, two or 180 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.240 three days later, they hadn't even heard from James Brown, 181 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.960 so they go see James Brown and he told them 182 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:49.840 you stay out in my case, if you don't, I 183 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:53.080 will destroy you and I'll destroy the kid. 184 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:55.840 To be honest, it's hard for me to comprehend that 185 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:59.279 James Brown ever said this, but it's pretty much exactly 186 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:02.320 how En Gore has described their exchange in that interview 187 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:06.879 she gave for contact newspaper Brown it seems wanted no 188 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:12.080 one coming close to his investigation. By now, the investigation 189 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:15.799 into the Curs was really heating up. It was August 190 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:20.080 ninety three going into September. The Curves were heading toward 191 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.279 a criminal trial on dozens of sex abuse charges. 192 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:27.799 Now I got a phone call from I believe it 193 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.399 was Anne Gore, who was with the Job Protective Services. 194 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:36.799 She told me that they had a bunch of molestation 195 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:44.240 cases involving an extended family in Gilmer, the Curves, as 196 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:47.159 well as some other folks who were associated with them. 197 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.360 This is Shane Phelps. At the time, he was an 198 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.960 Assistant Attorney General for the state of Texas. Shane had 199 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.519 just been named the chief of a brand new division 200 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.840 in the AG's office, set up to assist local prosecutors, 201 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:01.080 and they need extra help. 202 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.039 So I asked her, you know, what kind of cases 203 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.399 are we talking about? What are they going to trial? 204 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.039 Because this is the kind of thing we did. I mean, 205 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.000 the attorney, the district attorney of that jurisdiction, Upshire County, 206 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.919 apparently discovered that he had a conflict and so he 207 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.639 almost at the last minute said I can't handle these cases. 208 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.600 As it turned out, there were some forty five indictments 209 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.720 involving about six or seven people, which is a ton 210 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:33.159 of cases. I mean, that's an extraordinarily complex and difficult 211 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:38.279 case to prepare and get the trial or trials. So 212 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.919 when I asked her, well, when is this thing except 213 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.639 for trial? As I recall, it is very quickly. It 214 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.000 wasn't the next week, but it was very It was 215 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.000 on the trial dock and already it may have been 216 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.720 a month out, and I just said, look, I've got 217 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.240 a capital murder case I'm handling right now, I'm staffing 218 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.039 this office. I'm just taking over. We just can't take 219 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:03.159 that case of that magnitude on at this time. Was 220 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.879 there anything about the Satanics at that point, No, No, 221 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:11.440 it was just a molestation, sexual assault, indecency with a 222 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.080 child involving these children. She didn't give me any details 223 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.080 since she certainly didn't mention anything at all about the 224 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:22.559 Satanic stuff. She did mention that they had made contact 225 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:27.879 with a lawyer named Scott Leiford. I think he was 226 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.200 out of Galveston. It was a civil lawyer. 227 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.960 Scott Lefford was indeed a civil lawyer, but he'd worked 228 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:38.480 on child abuse cases earlier in his career. With Shane 229 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:43.200 Phelps unable to help, Lyford was appointed special prosecutor. The 230 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.159 first thing he did was appoint Bags and Flag as 231 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.840 special prosecutors. Next, Bags and Flag got named special investigators 232 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:55.519 for the Sheriff's office too, and just like that the 233 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.679 team had real power power to unravel the story. 234 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:05.240 It is about five minutes until six on Thursday, December 235 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.080 the ninth, nineteen ninety three. 236 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.440 We're with Connie Martin. 237 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:16.799 Also here is Debbie Minshew, Steve Baggs, Brookes Flagg, and myself, 238 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:20.679 Scott Leifert. We've been talking to Connie Martin on and 239 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.039 off most of the afternoon. Her lawyers here in the 240 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.159 jail and insisted with her on several occasions. And we're 241 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.120 going to go over again some things now that she 242 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.919 just told us and gotten off her chest. 243 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.399 And Steve, I'll that you y'all pick up where you are, Okay, Connie, 244 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:39.639 where are you gonna start? You wanna start at the 245 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.720 trace or at NTV where she was picked up. 246 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:48.200 Connie Martin, she was the common law wife of Danny Kerr. 247 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.919 When a bunch of the curs were getting rounded up 248 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.360 Connie was arrested too. You heard Connie at the top 249 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.799 of this episode. Here she is again talking with Steve 250 00:15:57.879 --> 00:15:59.799 Baggs about the abduction of Kelly. 251 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.960 Kelly got in a van, a white van with the MTV. 252 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:08.440 It was right beside the video clubs. 253 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:14.720 We went from there out to Geneva's house on Cherokee Trace. 254 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:18.600 Danny and all of them was We was all sitting 255 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.200 in the kitchen. I was sitting beside Kelly. They asked 256 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.480 Kelly if Danny and Wanda had asked Kelly if she 257 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.279 wanted to go outside, and she said yes, so they 258 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:29.320 followed her out the door. 259 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.279 According to Connie, Kelly had been friends with Danny Kerr, 260 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.799 so it wasn't strange for her to get into Danny's 261 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:39.039 van or for her to visit the Kerrs house in 262 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:42.840 the woods. Connie said they were coerced into group sex 263 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:44.440 after they. 264 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.480 Made up that they made a man wanted to put 265 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.000 her clothes back on, made us take the children back. 266 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:49.559 To the finals. 267 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:51.799 Did you ever see her again? 268 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:53.480 Not after that? 269 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.360 I don't know what. They didn't move. Do you see 270 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:57.080 her the next day? 271 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.840 No, I don't know what. 272 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:03.360 The don't tell m They just told men Wanda. If 273 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.400 we opened up say anything about what we say that 274 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.480 say kill os. They are very violent. 275 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.400 No, if they had threatened to kill money, if I 276 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.880 open my mouth, they have threatened to kill Wanda. I 277 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.359 had to sing marks on Wanda's throw, and I asked 278 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:25.640 Wanda what happened to her throw, and she would tell me, 279 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:26.519 I don't know. 280 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.359 She was scared to tell me or what we heard 281 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.759 about Wanda earlier. She's the wife of Wendell Kerr, and 282 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.880 she'd already confessed to abusing her own sons. The Lifer 283 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:42.920 team grilled Wanda for hours. Eventually she cracked. The team 284 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.880 even escorted her out of jail so she could show 285 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.160 them around the Kerr place where their heinous crimes supposedly 286 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.559 went down. Wanda said Kelly was a birthday present for Geneva, 287 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.480 the matriarch of the Kerr clan. She said, Danny and 288 00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.680 a few of the other Kerr family members pulled up 289 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.759 beside the movie store, and Kelly came over to their van. 290 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:07.240 Here's Wanda with investigator Steve Baggs. The story she tells 291 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.960 is kind of similar to her sister in law Connie's. 292 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:15.160 Did she lean in the window now, she just stood there. Okay, 293 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:18.279 what did Danny say? 294 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.920 Danny ask her, which do you would you like to 295 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.079 go out and meet my mother, Geneva Man? 296 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.519 Then what did Kelly say? 297 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:29.799 Kelly did okay? 298 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.519 Sure, Wanda said. The van took Kelly to the Kerr 299 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.839 compound on Cherokee Trace. Everybody gathered around Geneva's kitchen. 300 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:42.160 How long were you there for? The conversation got the 301 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.480 van a few minutes. 302 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:50.200 Danny told Kelly that his mom wants to talk to her. 303 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:56.079 Kelly went over there as mom asked if she would 304 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.279 take her clothes off, she said no, and that's where 305 00:18:59.279 --> 00:18:59.920 the arguments though. 306 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:01.160 She was stunned. 307 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.960 She was stunned. Yeah, I didn't know what was going on. 308 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.880 Somebody spoke up said it was just a joke. It 309 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.119 was just picking on you, and asked would you like 310 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.160 to go outside and walk around to her? Cut off 311 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.720 a little bit? 312 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:23.480 Went out the door first I did, and you went 313 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.759 out the door and then came out behind. 314 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.519 You, Kelly, she was right there behind the story. 315 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:32.039 Did you go out the back door? 316 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:32.960 Back door? 317 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.720 Always the back door stood outside right there at the 318 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:42.880 back backsteps till everybody got out there. Then it was 319 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.920 just like walking around it started out towards stuff. 320 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:51.640 The peach trees. 321 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.400 It's out there, uh, past the clothesline a little bit. 322 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:00.839 Jenny would wanting to show her her peach trees, the 323 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:07.039 one you playing, right, Wanda, to show our page. Jason 324 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.480 to me at Saint Laco's Sun. Your mind occupied, That's 325 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:13.519 what it seemed like to me. 326 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:17.960 Kelly and the Currs ended up deeper in the woods. 327 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.720 At this point in the interview, Steve Baggs asks Wanda 328 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.279 about the names of other people who are over there 329 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.480 that night. Then the recording ends. So while Bags and 330 00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:31.319 Flag are doing their thing, you got to remember that 331 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.400 Sergeant James York Brown is still heading up the original 332 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:39.079 search for Kelly Wilson. Although Sergeant Brown was initially dismissive 333 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.279 of the curR connection, he went ahead and interviewed Wanda's 334 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:46.880 brother Lucas. Remember, Lucas had told Bags and Flag that 335 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.880 he'd been part of the cult that sacrificed babies and children. 336 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.799 He'd even passed a polygraph. Now, though Lucas had a 337 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.519 different story, He told Sergeant Brown that he made all 338 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.880 that up. Brown also talked to Wendell Kerr. According to 339 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.519 the Special Prosecutors, Star witnesses. Wendell had been on the 340 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.279 scene when the Curs kidnapped Kelly. The way they told it, 341 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:13.039 he was practically the ringleader of the Devil cult. But 342 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:16.240 Wendell was a truck driver. He'd been hauling freight on 343 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.039 the East Coast on the night Kelly Wilson disappeared from 344 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:22.319 the video store in Gilmert, Texas, and Wendell had the 345 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.160 receipts to prove it. Brown took his findings to Scott Lefford. 346 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.319 Now it was Lifford's turn to be dismissive. If the 347 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:35.000 Currs were capable of demonic sacrifices, they were capable of anything, 348 00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.720 and that includes the relatively simple task of forging a 349 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:43.640 bunch of receipts. Sergeant James Brown wasn't buying it. He 350 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:44.599 wouldn't back down. 351 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.519 I mean, I knew they hit false fied information and 352 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:54.640 falseified evidences stiff in those channel cases. 353 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.279 That they were in on that at the time. 354 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.480 That's Sergeant Brown just to be He's accusing the life 355 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.200 or team of falsifying evidence here. I'm not aware of 356 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:07.799 them doing that. Lots of different interpretations though, and I 357 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:09.160 told him that when. 358 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:14.039 They went to court, I don't justify an instant And 359 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.279 as it built up, he turned around and fretted me 360 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:22.960 that he would ruin me and destroying the whole livelihood 361 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:28.319 everything else politically and all. 362 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:30.599 Of course I. 363 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:32.559 Didn't think he could do it. 364 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.400 And when they lied about those things, and then they 365 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:43.799 lied about the evidence, you know, so we're gonna said 366 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:46.359 when you falsify evidence, you make up evidence, and you 367 00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.960 present it to somebody like a grand jury. 368 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:52.839 They don't know what they did do and didn't do. 369 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.480 And that's the sad part of that. They lied completely. 370 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.559 And then that's how they and some guy says Menian 371 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.000 to him because they said, well, if we didn't get 372 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.000 him killed, is why I looked at them. 373 00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:06.960 They walk away as white knights. 374 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.839 Wait, was the Lifer team trying to kill Sergeant Brown? 375 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:14.240 I think he means they were trying to kill his case. 376 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:35.599 Rival investigations were heading straight toward a collision. On the 377 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.400 one hand, there was Scott Lefford with investigators Bags and Flag, 378 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:43.599 joined by caseworkers An Gore and Debbie Minshew, and on 379 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:47.000 the other Sergeant James Brown keeping his version of the 380 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.359 case to himself. Meanwhile, CPS had to do something with 381 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.440 all those Kerr kids. Some of the kids went with 382 00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.319 Barbara Bass, the foster parent of the year who I 383 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.119 mentioned earlier in the episode. Others ended up with an 384 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.240 older couple named James and Marie Lappie. James and Marie 385 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.440 were actually so afraid of the Kerr family they fled 386 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.000 with their ten foster kids to the West Texas town 387 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.200 of Colorado City, trying to put a ton of distance 388 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:16.039 between themselves and the supposed devil cult In Gilmer. James 389 00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:18.400 and Marie built a tall fence to keep the kids in. 390 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.519 They homeschooled the kids and even brought in this guy, 391 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:23.480 Dan Sullivan, to teach Sunday school. 392 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:28.400 And it became clear to Dan Sullivan that the children 393 00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:29.480 had been deprived. 394 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:30.559 She said that. 395 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.480 They had been through so much and she wanted to 396 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.880 give them a treat with moving and all the stress 397 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:38.759 and everything, and she was going to take them all 398 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:40.799 to the grocery store and let them get whatever they 399 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:42.680 wanted as a treat to eat. 400 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.119 And they went to the dog food section. 401 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:51.319